Browse content similar to 13/03/2016. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Morning, folks, and welcome to the Sunday Politics. | :00:36. | :00:38. | |
begins a new drive urging Scots to support what she calls | :00:39. | :00:42. | |
"the beautiful dream" of independence. | :00:43. | :00:45. | |
Tough talk from George Osborne ahead of his Budget on Wednesday. | :00:46. | :00:50. | |
The Chancellor wants us to live within our means. | :00:51. | :00:52. | |
Fighting talk too, from the man in his shadow. | :00:53. | :00:55. | |
John McDonnell wants to revive Labour's economic credibility. | :00:56. | :00:59. | |
And does Jeremy Corbyn's Labour Party have a problem | :01:00. | :01:04. | |
Labour students at Oxford are already being investigated | :01:05. | :01:09. | |
And coming up in Northern Ireland: university will also face scrutiny. | :01:10. | :01:13. | |
Colum Eastwood as his home city hosts the SDLP conference. | :01:14. | :01:17. | |
The party leader will be live on the programme. | :01:18. | :01:19. | |
And with me three Fleet Street journos, living the dream. | :01:20. | :01:33. | |
Nick Watt, Julia Harley-Brewer and Tim Shipman. | :01:34. | :01:39. | |
For the rest of us, it is a bit of a nightmare! | :01:40. | :01:44. | |
So, four months ago, George Osborne sounded upbeat | :01:45. | :01:46. | |
Writing in the Sun on Sunday, ahead of Wednesday's Budget, | :01:47. | :01:50. | |
the Chancellor says the world is facing its most uncertain period | :01:51. | :01:53. | |
He says Britain has to act now, rather than pay later, | :01:54. | :01:57. | |
Let's listen to the Chancellor on the Marr Show a little earlier. | :01:58. | :02:02. | |
I think the world is a much more difficult and dangerous place. | :02:03. | :02:05. | |
My message in this Budget is that the world is a more | :02:06. | :02:08. | |
uncertain place than at any time since the financial crisis. | :02:09. | :02:11. | |
We need to act now so we don't pay later. | :02:12. | :02:15. | |
That is why we need to find additional savings, | :02:16. | :02:20. | |
equivalent to 50p in every ?100 the Government spends by the end | :02:21. | :02:23. | |
We have got to live within our means to stay secure. | :02:24. | :02:26. | |
That is the way we make Britain fit for the future. | :02:27. | :02:31. | |
That was the Chancellor earlier this morning. What did we learn? He is | :02:32. | :02:38. | |
preparing the ground for a very difficult budget. Why is he talking | :02:39. | :02:43. | |
about the difficult global economic circumstances? We have a significant | :02:44. | :02:48. | |
slowdown in China but it helps him in the EU referendum campaign. Why | :02:49. | :02:53. | |
risk leaving the EU when it is difficult economic circumstances? It | :02:54. | :02:56. | |
helps him with a budget. You need to expend why he was talking in the | :02:57. | :03:02. | |
July budget, the Autumn Statement, targeting a 10 billion budget | :03:03. | :03:06. | |
surplus by 2020 and now he will be talking back calories and ?18 | :03:07. | :03:12. | |
billion hole in the size of the economy. Will he be able to meet | :03:13. | :03:19. | |
that surplus? He needs an alibi for that. All the global headwinds, | :03:20. | :03:25. | |
problems in the emerging markets, the slowdown in China, the | :03:26. | :03:26. | |
problems in the emerging markets, struggling to be overwhelmed. We | :03:27. | :03:28. | |
knew that back in July. struggling to be overwhelmed. We | :03:29. | :03:32. | |
changed. The struggling to be overwhelmed. We | :03:33. | :03:36. | |
Osborne is he is a politician. It is always about politics. It is not | :03:37. | :03:41. | |
ideal, coming into local elections, London mayoral | :03:42. | :03:43. | |
ideal, coming into local elections, giving a load of cuts to public | :03:44. | :03:44. | |
services and possibly tax rises. giving a load of cuts to public | :03:45. | :03:50. | |
reality is he is always looking at the long game and he does always | :03:51. | :03:54. | |
reality is he is always looking at play a brilliant politicians long | :03:55. | :03:54. | |
game. He is looking to 2020 and play a brilliant politicians long | :03:55. | :04:01. | |
not care. He also plays a bad shot game. Will it be a difficult budget | :04:02. | :04:08. | |
or will it be a steady issues budget? What is striking about back | :04:09. | :04:10. | |
in this morning, at least half of it budget? What is striking about back | :04:11. | :04:12. | |
was about the European Union and not the budget. The rest of it was about | :04:13. | :04:24. | |
was about the European Union and not been a difficult and dangerous time | :04:25. | :04:27. | |
for George Osborne and his teacher. He sat there and said, I am | :04:28. | :04:33. | |
for George Osborne and his teacher. going to sit in this chair and | :04:34. | :04:35. | |
mumble away. Who could he be talking about there? We were told week ago | :04:36. | :04:41. | |
that the subtext of the budget would be the dangers of Brexit and the | :04:42. | :04:45. | |
Tory leadership. It is not the subtext, it is the text. There is | :04:46. | :04:47. | |
hardly anything in it in terms of subtext, it is the text. There is | :04:48. | :04:56. | |
we just have another shout out subtext, it is the text. There is | :04:57. | :04:59. | |
the brilliant headline, genius political strategist clears up mess | :05:00. | :05:06. | |
made by genius political strategist. He may be nursing a little rabbit to | :05:07. | :05:09. | |
surprise as always! Now, if a certain referendum had | :05:10. | :05:14. | |
gone a bit differently, Scotland, would be an independent | :05:15. | :05:17. | |
country in just over ten days' time. Those wanting to leave the UK didn't | :05:18. | :05:19. | |
win that argument in 2014 but that It's the party's Spring Conference | :05:20. | :05:27. | |
in Glasgow this weekend, and we're joined now | :05:28. | :05:30. | |
from there by the First Minister Good morning. A pleasure to be with | :05:31. | :05:40. | |
you, Andrew. Had the referendum gone your way, we would be ten days from | :05:41. | :05:47. | |
independents. You will be taking a massive and unsustainable ?15 | :05:48. | :05:51. | |
billion budget deficit, 10% of Scottish GDP. What would you be | :05:52. | :05:55. | |
doing to get that down? We would deal with it in the same way the UK | :05:56. | :06:03. | |
dealt with its deficit in 2009/ when they had 2.2% of the GDP. -- 2009/ | :06:04. | :06:11. | |
2010. They will be building on the underlying fundamental strengths of | :06:12. | :06:15. | |
the Scottish economy. Our this goal position has been broadly similar to | :06:16. | :06:20. | |
the rest of the UK and, in some years, better than the rest of the | :06:21. | :06:24. | |
UK. Onshore revenues are growing at a faster rate than the fall in | :06:25. | :06:29. | |
offshore revenues. We have higher employment and faster productivity | :06:30. | :06:31. | |
growth. The economy is fundamentally strong and that would have been a | :06:32. | :06:35. | |
very good basis on which to become an independent country. Did you not | :06:36. | :06:42. | |
oppose most efforts of the British government to get the deficit down? | :06:43. | :06:45. | |
I opposed many measures that George Osborne has taken. I do not say we | :06:46. | :06:50. | |
should not try to get the deficit down. I have opposed and continue to | :06:51. | :06:54. | |
oppose the speed at which it is happening in the way in which it is | :06:55. | :06:58. | |
happening but no one would deny that countries want to get their fiscal | :06:59. | :07:02. | |
positions into a more stable condition and the UK is in right | :07:03. | :07:06. | |
now. The point I'm making is the Scottish economy is fundamentally | :07:07. | :07:13. | |
strong economy. Much of what I have said illustrates that point. Let's | :07:14. | :07:16. | |
look at some of the things you have said. You have said most countries | :07:17. | :07:19. | |
have deficits. Can you name another at Fat economy 80s after the | :07:20. | :07:23. | |
financial crash that has a budget deficit of 10% of GDP. You do not | :07:24. | :07:33. | |
look at just one year full if I go back to that -- two 2008, 2009, it | :07:34. | :07:40. | |
was double that of Scotland. Our this goal position has been stronger | :07:41. | :07:44. | |
but is not right now because of the particular issues. Is it not the | :07:45. | :07:50. | |
case that Scotland's deficit now is the highest in the European Union? | :07:51. | :07:55. | |
That is true, isn't it? In the year we had figures published in this | :07:56. | :08:01. | |
past week, we have a very difficult and challenging set of figures. It | :08:02. | :08:07. | |
is the highest. No country, whether the UK, Scotland or another EU | :08:08. | :08:12. | |
country, makes judgments about that this good strength of that country | :08:13. | :08:16. | |
on the strength of one year's goes. The point I am making is over the | :08:17. | :08:20. | |
past ten years, our fiscal position has been broadly similar to the UK | :08:21. | :08:25. | |
and coming summer beiges, has been significantly better. If you project | :08:26. | :08:29. | |
forward to the next five years, the future is much more important than | :08:30. | :08:33. | |
the past, onshore revenues are likely to Bath the outstrip the | :08:34. | :08:39. | |
decline in offshore revenues. -- basked in the outstrip. The North | :08:40. | :08:44. | |
Sea contains difficulties for those working in the North Sea and | :08:45. | :08:48. | |
economies on the North East of Scotland. The economy of Scotland is | :08:49. | :08:52. | |
fundamentally strong. Let's look at more than one year. You have said it | :08:53. | :08:57. | |
is a snapshot. Without oil revenues, and there are no oil revenues now, | :08:58. | :09:03. | |
without the revenues, Scotland has run a persistent budget deficit of | :09:04. | :09:09. | |
over 10% every year for 13 years. You have a systemic deficit problem. | :09:10. | :09:14. | |
Why should you not look at oil revenues? Oil revenues are there and | :09:15. | :09:19. | |
have been contributing to the Treasury to the tune of ?300 | :09:20. | :09:24. | |
billion. They are not there now. Without them you have run a | :09:25. | :09:30. | |
persistent budget deficit and have done for 13 years. I accept it is | :09:31. | :09:34. | |
the future that matters more than the past. If you look at the | :09:35. | :09:38. | |
projections for the next five years, our onshore revenues, remember more | :09:39. | :09:42. | |
than 90% of the Scottish economy comes from onshore and not offshore. | :09:43. | :09:47. | |
If you look five years ahead, onshore revenues are projected to | :09:48. | :09:52. | |
grow in the region of ?14 billion. That is many times before in | :09:53. | :09:59. | |
offshore revenues in that period. I am not denying the challenge of | :10:00. | :10:04. | |
North Sea and other countries. Norway is facing exactly the same | :10:05. | :10:08. | |
challenge. Because they are better prepared for it and have Stuart did | :10:09. | :10:12. | |
oil resources better, Norway, in the last couple of weeks true down on | :10:13. | :10:18. | |
its massive oil fund. The powers that independence would have given | :10:19. | :10:24. | |
as and we did not vote yes, we have had -- we would have had ability to | :10:25. | :10:33. | |
draw down on that faster. Why are onshore revenues growing less | :10:34. | :10:35. | |
strongly in Scotland than the rest of the UK? That is a long-standing | :10:36. | :10:43. | |
issue. One issue at the heart of that is growth in the heart of | :10:44. | :10:48. | |
London. We are seeing a narrowing in some of the long-standing gap there | :10:49. | :10:52. | |
has been between aspects of the Scottish economy and the UK economy. | :10:53. | :10:57. | |
If we take productivity, for a long time Scotland lags significantly | :10:58. | :11:00. | |
behind the rest of the UK. Over the past years we have close that gap is | :11:01. | :11:07. | |
it that can leave. We still lag behind our European competitors and | :11:08. | :11:11. | |
that is a problem. I am not standing here denying the challenges that the | :11:12. | :11:15. | |
Scottish economy has. In the same way you have been talking about the | :11:16. | :11:19. | |
Chancellor's budget and the same way the UK economy has challenges and | :11:20. | :11:23. | |
across the European Union, they have challenges. There are real strength | :11:24. | :11:27. | |
is in the Scottish economy. The real question should be how we build on | :11:28. | :11:35. | |
and accents are the big strengths. Revenues per person in Scotland | :11:36. | :11:42. | |
where ?10,700 in the years 2011, 20 12. They are now ?10,000, 700 ( even | :11:43. | :11:48. | |
with the growth in revenues. The offshore has offset that. We still | :11:49. | :11:53. | |
have a fundamental deficit problem. I am not denying we have a deficit. | :11:54. | :12:01. | |
The UK has a deficit. Take revenues per head of population, which is | :12:02. | :12:06. | |
what you decided to me there. In the most recent year, our revenues per | :12:07. | :12:10. | |
head of population are broadly similar to the UK. In every one of | :12:11. | :12:16. | |
the past 35 years, revenues per head of population have been higher than | :12:17. | :12:20. | |
the rest of the UK. I accept we have a challenge in the North Sea. I | :12:21. | :12:26. | |
accept that like all oil-producing countries, we have challenges about | :12:27. | :12:29. | |
how we transition away from oil and gas over the years to come, though | :12:30. | :12:33. | |
there is a great deal of attention in the North Sea. These are | :12:34. | :12:36. | |
challenges we should embrace and challenges we should be working out | :12:37. | :12:40. | |
how we face up to and address. Scotland is doing that and we'll do | :12:41. | :12:44. | |
that on the basis of fundamental strengths in our economy. -- will do | :12:45. | :12:51. | |
that. Scotland pays per capita about the same as the UK average. I am | :12:52. | :12:59. | |
talking about the current year. What I am saying is, you cannot judge the | :13:00. | :13:04. | |
economy in one year. It is similar in one year in 34 of the past 35 | :13:05. | :13:08. | |
years and has been higher. That is the | :13:09. | :13:14. | |
years and has been higher. That is you are running a deficit, per | :13:15. | :13:15. | |
years and has been higher. That is capita spending is so much higher | :13:16. | :13:17. | |
years and has been higher. That is than in Scotland it is ?1400 higher | :13:18. | :13:19. | |
public spending per than in Scotland it is ?1400 higher | :13:20. | :13:25. | |
Westminster that is that build it is the difference between | :13:26. | :13:31. | |
Westminster that is that build it is and what you spend. -- fits that | :13:32. | :13:32. | |
bill. It is a deficit. The UK is in deficit in Scotland is in deficit. | :13:33. | :13:39. | |
It is twice as big! In deficit in Scotland is in deficit. | :13:40. | :13:45. | |
the UK deficit was twice as deficit in Scotland is in deficit. | :13:46. | :13:51. | |
year. In terms of the point about per capita spending, there are | :13:52. | :13:55. | |
year. In terms of the point about good reasons why someone who knows | :13:56. | :13:57. | |
Scotland good reasons why someone who knows | :13:58. | :14:00. | |
where one in five of the population lives in a row and remote | :14:01. | :14:04. | |
where one in five of the population I was Health Secretary for five | :14:05. | :14:07. | |
years. It cost more to deliver health services on an island or | :14:08. | :14:11. | |
rural community than it does in Glasgow. Westminster pays for that, | :14:12. | :14:18. | |
it makes up the difference. If you are independent you would either | :14:19. | :14:20. | |
it makes up the difference. If you have to raise taxes or cut spending. | :14:21. | :14:23. | |
What would it be? By how much would you raise taxes and cut spending? We | :14:24. | :14:27. | |
set a budget in you raise taxes and cut spending? We | :14:28. | :14:32. | |
every year. We make choices, sometimes these are tough choices. | :14:33. | :14:35. | |
every year. We make choices, would do that as well. The point I | :14:36. | :14:37. | |
independent Scotland would face challenges like other economies do. | :14:38. | :14:42. | |
independent Scotland would face We're in a fundamentally strong | :14:43. | :14:47. | |
position. Employment is higher than any other UK nation. Productivity is | :14:48. | :14:51. | |
growing faster. We have a number of key strengths in the economy. One of | :14:52. | :14:56. | |
the challenges is how we build on these strengths and get our economy | :14:57. | :15:02. | |
growing faster. We have a number of world leading sectors in our | :15:03. | :15:03. | |
economy. The fact is your deficit was ?15 | :15:04. | :15:14. | |
billion, moving with oil revenues at 2 billion last year. This year oil | :15:15. | :15:18. | |
revenues are reckoned to be at zero so your budget deficit would get | :15:19. | :15:28. | |
even worse. Two cut your deficit to anything like acceptable levels you | :15:29. | :15:34. | |
would have to increase tax to 16% or cut spending by 14% or a combination | :15:35. | :15:40. | |
of the two, what would it be? We would deal with the deficit in the | :15:41. | :15:44. | |
same way the UK is dealing with the deficit and dealt in the deficit -- | :15:45. | :15:53. | |
with the deficit in 2009/ ten. We would be in the same position as | :15:54. | :15:57. | |
many other countries but we would be in a position where we have got a | :15:58. | :16:03. | |
fundamentally strong economy. I wish Scotland have voted yes in 2014, if | :16:04. | :16:08. | |
it had done we would have spent the last almost two years preparing for | :16:09. | :16:15. | |
Scotland becoming independent. In a negotiation around independence, | :16:16. | :16:20. | |
there would have been discussions about assets, liability, the share | :16:21. | :16:24. | |
of defence spending, so that's what would have been the case if we voted | :16:25. | :16:29. | |
for independence. Looking ahead, we have a strong economy and the | :16:30. | :16:32. | |
challenge is how we grow it even faster. You accept surely that you | :16:33. | :16:38. | |
wouldn't be allowed to join the European Union with a 10% deficit, | :16:39. | :16:44. | |
you would have to agree to Brussels programme, correct? We are getting | :16:45. | :16:51. | |
into some ridiculous territory here and one of the most ridiculous | :16:52. | :16:55. | |
arguments. Scotland wouldn't have been out of the EU, we wouldn't have | :16:56. | :16:59. | |
been in the position of an accession state. It is a bit rich for anybody, | :17:00. | :17:04. | |
given where we are right now, with the prospect of being taken out of | :17:05. | :17:09. | |
the EU ahead of us, for scaremongering about the prospects | :17:10. | :17:15. | |
of that. With two weeks to go until independence, instead of increases | :17:16. | :17:18. | |
in public spending which you announced yesterday... They didn't | :17:19. | :17:26. | |
vote yes. But if it had been, you would have been looking at the list | :17:27. | :17:29. | |
of hospitals and schools to close, you would be the austerity party, | :17:30. | :17:35. | |
that's what you would have to do. That's ridiculous. Countries the | :17:36. | :17:38. | |
world over have deficits and deal with them. We would also have been | :17:39. | :17:43. | |
taking on the greater powers to grow our economy, particularly our own | :17:44. | :17:51. | |
short economy. Italy and Greece had 10% deficit and you know the | :17:52. | :17:56. | |
austerity they had to go through. I think this argument starts to tip | :17:57. | :18:01. | |
over into being incredible, we start to compare Scotland, with all of the | :18:02. | :18:04. | |
strength of the Scottish economy, to countries like Greece and Italy. I | :18:05. | :18:09. | |
have spoken about the fundamental strengths of our economy, not least | :18:10. | :18:12. | |
the fact we have had the longest period of economic growth since the | :18:13. | :18:17. | |
devolution. You have said all of that. Yes, we have challenges, but | :18:18. | :18:26. | |
Scotland has a strong economy. Then why do your revenues like you're | :18:27. | :18:35. | |
spending by ?2400 per person? -- lag your spending. We have a deficit | :18:36. | :18:44. | |
like many other countries... Nobody has a deficit like Scotland's. We | :18:45. | :18:49. | |
have a particular issue because of the fall in North Sea revenues. It | :18:50. | :18:54. | |
is an indictment of Westminster mismanagement that unlike Norway, we | :18:55. | :19:02. | |
don't have a massive oil fund to help deal with that. Westminster is | :19:03. | :19:07. | |
paying for your deficit, Westminster is paying for the difference for the | :19:08. | :19:11. | |
rest of the deficit, would you like to thank the rest of the people of | :19:12. | :19:15. | |
the United Kingdom for making up for the deficit you have got? | :19:16. | :19:20. | |
Westminster has a deficit of its own, it is ?1 trillion in debt. That | :19:21. | :19:25. | |
is not the deficit, that is the debt. That is why I said debt, I | :19:26. | :19:32. | |
understand the difference between deficit and debt, but it has | :19:33. | :19:37. | |
accumulated debt of ?1 trillion, it has an annual deficit just like | :19:38. | :19:41. | |
Scotland and many other countries do. It is actually 1.5 trillion, | :19:42. | :19:47. | |
even worse than you think. I was being kind to them, Andrew! You | :19:48. | :19:52. | |
should be kind because they are saving you quite a bit of money! | :19:53. | :19:56. | |
Does Labour have a problem dealing with allegations of anti-semitism? | :19:57. | :19:58. | |
The party is worried enough to have established an inquiry | :19:59. | :20:00. | |
into the Labour Club at Oxford University | :20:01. | :20:02. | |
where there are accusations that members used off-colour language | :20:03. | :20:05. | |
And the Sunday Politics has been told that the investigation | :20:06. | :20:08. | |
will look at new claims from another university. | :20:09. | :20:12. | |
It comes after an activist with controversial views was allowed | :20:13. | :20:15. | |
back into the party then promptly chucked out again last week. | :20:16. | :20:17. | |
Does Jeremy Corbyn's support for causes like the Palestinians | :20:18. | :20:22. | |
or Stop The War mean he's not tough enough when there are allegations | :20:23. | :20:26. | |
It's seen that way by some students at Oxford. | :20:27. | :20:29. | |
Last month the vice-chair of the Labour club there resigned, | :20:30. | :20:32. | |
claiming some members had a problem with Jews and used words like Zio, | :20:33. | :20:38. | |
a nickname for Jewish people that many find offensive. | :20:39. | :20:41. | |
It's now being investigated by the Labour peer Baroness Royle, | :20:42. | :20:44. | |
who is also looking at the wider issue of behaviour in | :20:45. | :20:46. | |
We understand she's now extended her investigation | :20:47. | :20:49. | |
to include students at the London School of Economics. | :20:50. | :20:52. | |
This week, they have been electing a new general secretary | :20:53. | :20:55. | |
One of the candidates, Rayhan Uddin, who's also | :20:56. | :21:01. | |
in the Labour group, has been criticised for some | :21:02. | :21:04. | |
Facebook posts that emerged during the campaign. | :21:05. | :21:08. | |
In one, he talked about leading Zionists wanting to take over | :21:09. | :21:10. | |
the student union to make it right wing and Zio again. | :21:11. | :21:17. | |
Facebook post: of language, writing in another | :21:18. | :21:32. | |
He has been referred to Labour's investigation | :21:33. | :21:34. | |
into student politics by someone who now works for an MP. | :21:35. | :21:38. | |
We've seen the letter they wrote, which said: | :21:39. | :21:47. | |
Because it was an older generation of activists that came up | :21:48. | :21:57. | |
at Prime Minister's Questions this week. | :21:58. | :21:59. | |
I was completely appalled to see yesterday that the Labour Party has | :22:00. | :22:02. | |
readmitted someone to their party who says, and I believe | :22:03. | :22:06. | |
that the 9/11 suicide bombers, and I quote, must never be condemned | :22:07. | :22:11. | |
and belongs to an organisation that says "we defend the Islamic State | :22:12. | :22:14. | |
He was referring to Gerry Downing, who had also blogged | :22:15. | :22:19. | |
about what he called the Jewish question, | :22:20. | :22:23. | |
after being readmitted to the party this week he was resuspended. | :22:24. | :22:27. | |
He reckons it's really a battle between different wings in Labour. | :22:28. | :22:33. | |
Well, Dan Jarvis and these people of course, obviously there's | :22:34. | :22:39. | |
the whole Blairite wing of the party and others, who have been absolutely | :22:40. | :22:44. | |
disgusted at the membership and the left-wing surge | :22:45. | :22:46. | |
in the membership and can't believe what happened. | :22:47. | :22:59. | |
And do you think they are using race and religion as a tool for that? | :23:00. | :23:03. | |
Whereas the Labour MP Wes Streeting says there is a problem | :23:04. | :23:06. | |
I think in certain parts of the British left, | :23:07. | :23:10. | |
there has always been a virulent form of pretty bigoted politics, | :23:11. | :23:14. | |
particularly in terms of anti-Semitism, which has been | :23:15. | :23:21. | |
an issue in some of our university campuses | :23:22. | :23:23. | |
There's also a mentality which I think has been epitomised | :23:24. | :23:28. | |
by the repulsive use of Mr Downing, which is not so much Stop The War | :23:29. | :23:32. | |
People who seem to hate their country more than they hate | :23:33. | :23:37. | |
And we have got to start sending a far stronger message that this | :23:38. | :23:43. | |
is simply not acceptable in the modern Labour Party. | :23:44. | :23:46. | |
Jeremy Corbyn's supporters, like those in the grass roots | :23:47. | :23:49. | |
campaign group Momentum, say none of this is fair on him. | :23:50. | :23:53. | |
Corbyn comes under the most incredible level of attacks and one | :23:54. | :23:56. | |
of the things that he's attacked for is his long-standing commitment | :23:57. | :23:59. | |
to anti-war, anti-imperialism, peace in the Middle East. | :24:00. | :24:07. | |
And I think that's where some of this comes from. | :24:08. | :24:09. | |
He does absolutely condemn anti-Semitism, he has time | :24:10. | :24:12. | |
There is not a shred of anti-Semitism in his personal | :24:13. | :24:15. | |
make-up, in his moral make-up or in his political make-up. | :24:16. | :24:19. | |
And as for Labour's investigation into anti-Semitism among students, | :24:20. | :24:29. | |
Let's speak now to the Labour MP, John Mann, who's chair | :24:30. | :24:35. | |
of the All-Party Parliamentary Group against Anti-Semitism. | :24:36. | :24:40. | |
Is there an anti-Semitism problem in Anti-Semitism Conference. | :24:41. | :24:47. | |
Is there an anti-Semitism problem in the Labour Party? Of course, | :24:48. | :24:50. | |
Is there an anti-Semitism problem in why these issues have got attention. | :24:51. | :24:52. | |
It is not a big problem, why these issues have got attention. | :24:53. | :24:58. | |
problem when it comes to racism needs to be dealt with. We have been | :24:59. | :25:01. | |
here before. I can recall 30 needs to be dealt with. We have been | :25:02. | :25:07. | |
ago when there were extremists trying to ban Jewish societies in | :25:08. | :25:12. | |
some of the universities, and we clamped down on them very hard then | :25:13. | :25:15. | |
and they weren't in the Labour Party but it is the same kind of people, | :25:16. | :25:21. | |
the same ideology. Some of that has crept into the Labour Party and it | :25:22. | :25:25. | |
needs to be removed. Why has it come back? People could write big | :25:26. | :25:33. | |
academic books on why it has re-surged but what we have seen in | :25:34. | :25:38. | |
history is that anti-Semitism never seems to go away. But why in the | :25:39. | :25:44. | |
Labour Party has come back? People have obviously chosen to dissociate | :25:45. | :25:47. | |
with the Labour Party in the growth of membership, some of those people | :25:48. | :25:51. | |
have attitudes that are very outdated and prejudiced. There is no | :25:52. | :25:58. | |
space for them in the Labour Party and the reason that is important is | :25:59. | :26:03. | |
because I am getting young Jewish activists posturing whether the | :26:04. | :26:05. | |
Labour Party is the place for them in terms of their support, their | :26:06. | :26:11. | |
vote and their activity, and we cannot tolerate a situation where | :26:12. | :26:19. | |
any part of society doesn't feel that a major political party like | :26:20. | :26:23. | |
the Labour Party is not the place for them, which is why prompt | :26:24. | :26:27. | |
effective action and vigilance on this is required, including from | :26:28. | :26:31. | |
Jeremy as the leader of the Labour Party. Is the Labour leader doing | :26:32. | :26:38. | |
enough? Or the fact he has talked about his friends, Hamas, Hezbollah, | :26:39. | :26:44. | |
and shared platforms with people who have been very hostile to Israel and | :26:45. | :26:51. | |
so on, is that a disadvantage? Is it encouraging anti-Semitism or is it | :26:52. | :26:55. | |
not relevant? I have met Jeremy recently to discuss anti-Semitism in | :26:56. | :26:59. | |
the Labour Party and it is clear to me that he does not tolerate or | :27:00. | :27:05. | |
support it but what he has to do is follow that free with actions and | :27:06. | :27:10. | |
ensure that others in the Labour Party follow it through with actions | :27:11. | :27:15. | |
because the kind of thing, the atmosphere that is being created in | :27:16. | :27:19. | |
Oxford University is not a one-off. This has been happening elsewhere as | :27:20. | :27:25. | |
well. While these can be seen as small incidents, if you are the | :27:26. | :27:29. | |
young Jewish person who is impacted by it, it is not small for you and | :27:30. | :27:37. | |
it is magnified in the universities, which are pretty tolerant places and | :27:38. | :27:42. | |
rightly so, if there is in tolerance to any particular group and to | :27:43. | :27:46. | |
Jewish students. We are not prepared to have that in the Labour Party, | :27:47. | :27:50. | |
there has got to be action, it has got to be led from the front and it | :27:51. | :27:54. | |
has got to be decisive action. There is no space for these people in the | :27:55. | :28:01. | |
Labour Party or is there space for people in any way excusing their | :28:02. | :28:06. | |
actions. But there is an inquiry into what has been going on at | :28:07. | :28:12. | |
Oxford, but is your party doing enough about this? Because I | :28:13. | :28:16. | |
understand these inquiries may be subsumed into a much bigger inquiry | :28:17. | :28:20. | |
into bullying and so on. What is your feeling? It is action by | :28:21. | :28:27. | |
results. If there is a decisive action, there will be an almighty | :28:28. | :28:30. | |
row which wouldn't be helpful but the idea that those of us who fought | :28:31. | :28:38. | |
over decades, challenging anti-Semitism and other forms of | :28:39. | :28:43. | |
racism, are going to accept other than the highest of standards in our | :28:44. | :28:47. | |
own party, well I can tell you it is going to happen. There are many of | :28:48. | :28:55. | |
us who will only accept absolutely the highest standards. We are not | :28:56. | :28:59. | |
prepared to tolerate any form of anti-Semitism or any excuse for it | :29:00. | :29:04. | |
in the Labour Party or anywhere else in society. But in our own party | :29:05. | :29:09. | |
absolutely not and therefore there has got to be action, words are not | :29:10. | :29:13. | |
good enough. Historically the Labour Party has done well from the Jewish | :29:14. | :29:19. | |
vote. The Jewish vote over time has tended to vote Labour. If this | :29:20. | :29:23. | |
anti-Semitism continues in your party, are you in danger of losing | :29:24. | :29:30. | |
the Jewish vote? We prepared a report ten years ago on a | :29:31. | :29:34. | |
cross-party basis that highlighted anti-Semitism in all of its aspects | :29:35. | :29:38. | |
including from the right but also what was described by some as the | :29:39. | :29:42. | |
new anti-Semitism on the left. It is not new but it had been dormant for | :29:43. | :29:47. | |
a long period of time. People have been accustomed to the Labour Party | :29:48. | :29:51. | |
and that part of the left being highly tolerant to everybody. That | :29:52. | :29:59. | |
has got to happen, you cannot have a progressive party of any substance | :30:00. | :30:02. | |
in politics if it allows any form of intolerance and therefore we are not | :30:03. | :30:07. | |
prepared to have second-class citizens, second-class form of | :30:08. | :30:12. | |
racism allowed in the Labour Party. Anti-Semitism has got to be | :30:13. | :30:16. | |
challenged, including anti-Semitism on the left, and so robustly and put | :30:17. | :30:22. | |
back in the dustbin again. That is my intention in the Labour Party. I | :30:23. | :30:31. | |
am looking forward to Jeremy and the National Executive being decisive, | :30:32. | :30:35. | |
removing the anti-Semites, going into where there is intolerance and | :30:36. | :30:38. | |
explaining what is anti-Semitism and why we are not prepared to have it | :30:39. | :30:43. | |
in our party. Thanks for joining us this morning. | :30:44. | :30:46. | |
Labour's Shadow Chancellor John McDonnell ran Jeremy Corbyn's | :30:47. | :30:48. | |
leadership campaign on a platform fighting not just austerity, | :30:49. | :30:51. | |
Now though, he wants to be the new voice of fiscal | :30:52. | :30:54. | |
responsibility, and says he's going to re-write | :30:55. | :30:56. | |
In a moment we'll be talking to John McDonnell's number two, | :30:57. | :31:00. | |
the Shadow Chief Secretary to the Treasury. | :31:01. | :31:01. | |
But first let's hear what Mr McDonnell had to say | :31:02. | :31:04. | |
It is a wider ambition then just Labour's fiscal credibility. | :31:05. | :31:07. | |
I want to try to restore credibility to economic policy-making generally, | :31:08. | :31:10. | |
not just within the Labour Party but across politics too. | :31:11. | :31:13. | |
We have had too long, for example, the last six | :31:14. | :31:15. | |
years we have had fiscal rules which have not been met, | :31:16. | :31:18. | |
I am trying to encourage a better economic debate. | :31:19. | :31:23. | |
What I have said is quite clearly, when we go back into government, | :31:24. | :31:26. | |
we will eliminate the deficit, reduce debt, and will | :31:27. | :31:29. | |
ensure that is supervised independently by the Office | :31:30. | :31:32. | |
And Labour's Shadow Chief Secretary to the Treasury, Seema Malhotra, | :31:33. | :31:39. | |
Welcome to the Sunday Politics. You would balance current spending with | :31:40. | :31:52. | |
revenue and borrow to invest. How does that differ from Mr Brown and | :31:53. | :31:57. | |
Mr balls? You are right about there being two key parts to the new | :31:58. | :32:02. | |
fiscal credibility were all. In a sense, this builds on very much | :32:03. | :32:06. | |
where we have been before. It also responds to the criticisms that were | :32:07. | :32:12. | |
made of Jaws -- George Osborne's this school charter where he was | :32:13. | :32:17. | |
criticised for tying his own hands and not allowing for investment. -- | :32:18. | :32:22. | |
fiscal charter. There are two key differences. It makes it more | :32:23. | :32:27. | |
explicit, that there should be independent voices. We have said we | :32:28. | :32:31. | |
want the OBR to be an independent voice around deficit reduction | :32:32. | :32:35. | |
targets, and also reporting directly to Parliament. The second area is | :32:36. | :32:42. | |
that we want to make sure there is the opportunity for investment and | :32:43. | :32:46. | |
also, if there are difficult times, like we had in 2009, when monetary | :32:47. | :32:52. | |
policy does not seem to be working, it gives an opportunity for fiscal | :32:53. | :32:56. | |
policy to work alongside. It builds on but has two key differences. Mr | :32:57. | :33:01. | |
Brown defended his rules as well when times got bad. It was described | :33:02. | :33:16. | |
as being austerity light. This must be as well? It has been developed | :33:17. | :33:23. | |
and the reason... It is not about austerity. It is a framework that | :33:24. | :33:26. | |
will allow us to make spending and tax decisions in the future. It | :33:27. | :33:32. | |
responds to the criticisms, the universal criticisms of George | :33:33. | :33:38. | |
Osborne's this dull charter. -- fiscal charter. It says we need to | :33:39. | :33:45. | |
invest for the future. I understand all that. Mr Brown and Mr Balls also | :33:46. | :33:50. | |
wanted to invest and that was criticised by the Shadow Chancellor | :33:51. | :33:56. | |
as austerity light. If that were austerity light, this is steroid to | :33:57. | :34:04. | |
-- night as well. We're in a situation where George Osborne is | :34:05. | :34:13. | |
blaming everyone but himself. -- this is austerity light as well. | :34:14. | :34:21. | |
George Osborne's Member of Parliament for the Tory Party has | :34:22. | :34:25. | |
said, what we have seen our warm words. He has talked about | :34:26. | :34:29. | |
investment and an export led strategy. This is built on debts, | :34:30. | :34:37. | |
household debt. How much is public investment? Around 30 billion, if | :34:38. | :34:43. | |
you take into account the difference in spending. It is 34 billion in | :34:44. | :34:49. | |
public spending at the moment. It should be much higher. How much more | :34:50. | :34:55. | |
should it be? It should be higher. There is no excuse for what George | :34:56. | :35:00. | |
Osborne has done. I am not asking about Mr Osborne. I am asking about | :35:01. | :35:06. | |
your policy. 34 billion at the moment, rising to 40 billion by 20 | :35:07. | :35:11. | |
20. How much more would it be? It focuses on where it needs to be | :35:12. | :35:21. | |
regarding GDP. You need to have a good level of investment so you are | :35:22. | :35:26. | |
creating jobs for the future. What I am trying to work out is what this | :35:27. | :35:33. | |
means in hard cash for investment, how big would investment be under a | :35:34. | :35:37. | |
Labour government? It is clear that George Osborne has been cutting | :35:38. | :35:44. | |
investment. It was around 3%, 3.5%, and is now 1.4% in terms of | :35:45. | :35:48. | |
infrastructure. If you want jobs of the future coming through, if you | :35:49. | :35:54. | |
want to turn around the situation where young people... By how much | :35:55. | :35:57. | |
more would public investment increase under this formula? What we | :35:58. | :36:02. | |
have said is you need to make sure that we have a balance of where the | :36:03. | :36:06. | |
economy needs investment so we can get tax receipts and growth for the | :36:07. | :36:10. | |
future. We had economists saying that George Osborne, if you talk | :36:11. | :36:15. | |
about fairness in the future... I am here to talk about the labour policy | :36:16. | :36:21. | |
and not that of George Osborne. Nor has there been balanced growth. If | :36:22. | :36:25. | |
you want a balanced budget, you need to balance growth. Let's talk about | :36:26. | :36:34. | |
labour. John McDonnell has talked about the difference between | :36:35. | :36:37. | |
short-term and long-term investment. What is the difference? What we have | :36:38. | :36:40. | |
said as she want to see investment that will see us having a big stake | :36:41. | :36:45. | |
in the future. If you want to look at energy investment, you are | :36:46. | :36:55. | |
talking out about -- about 20, 30 years. It is about supporting | :36:56. | :37:01. | |
companies, entrepreneurs and supporting the long-term growth for | :37:02. | :37:05. | |
the country as well. If you're talking about rail, roads and | :37:06. | :37:08. | |
infrastructure, you will be aware, I am sure, of the reports that showed | :37:09. | :37:15. | |
recently we have fewer buses than 2010, our rolling stock and trains | :37:16. | :37:19. | |
are in poor condition, people are taking longer to get to work and the | :37:20. | :37:24. | |
trains are more crowded. That should be a wake-up call to George Osborne | :37:25. | :37:28. | |
he is not working in the interests of the British public and people are | :37:29. | :37:32. | |
asking if the decisions are based on political interest and not on the | :37:33. | :37:40. | |
country's future. You would balance current spending, day-to-day | :37:41. | :37:43. | |
spending. At the moment there is a deficit. What would you cut to | :37:44. | :37:48. | |
balance current spending? There are two things. The first is about | :37:49. | :37:52. | |
spending decisions and the second about tax receipts. We are arguing | :37:53. | :37:57. | |
that if you want to see tax receipts grow, George Osborne has seen them | :37:58. | :38:01. | |
for in regard to productivity growth. What would you cut? We would | :38:02. | :38:10. | |
want to see that growth increases in that you see an increase in tax | :38:11. | :38:15. | |
receipts. You cannot spend if it is not within your means. What would | :38:16. | :38:22. | |
you cut? You cannot spend if it is not within your means. What the | :38:23. | :38:25. | |
announcement from the Labour Party is about is how we earn our way in | :38:26. | :38:29. | |
the world and survived in a competitive economy. We will leave | :38:30. | :38:32. | |
it there. Thank you very much. It's just gone 11:35am, | :38:33. | :38:37. | |
you're watching the Sunday Politics. Hello and welcome to Sunday Politics | :38:38. | :38:45. | |
in Northern Ireland. Coming up in the programme: | :38:46. | :38:48. | |
Colum Eastwood gets a home town welcome, but can he face down | :38:49. | :38:52. | |
the challenge of Sinn Fein? We've got our voices back and we are | :38:53. | :39:05. | |
getting stronger by the day. The SDLP is back in the conversation. | :39:06. | :39:09. | |
And our guests of the day after a fascinating week of politics | :39:10. | :39:16. | |
are Professor Cathy Gormley-Heenan from Ulster University | :39:17. | :39:19. | |
and Professor Pete Shirlow, Director of the Institute | :39:20. | :39:21. | |
of Irish Studies at the University of Liverpool. | :39:22. | :39:30. | |
'This party has a new feel and a new spirit about it. | :39:31. | :39:34. | |
'We are a party full of new people and new ideas.' The words | :39:35. | :39:37. | |
of the SDLP leader, Colum Eastwood, as he addressed party activists | :39:38. | :39:40. | |
yesterday at their annual conference in Londonderry. | :39:41. | :39:44. | |
So is this the moment the party's climb-back to the glory days | :39:45. | :39:47. | |
We'll hear live from Mr Eastwood in a moment, | :39:48. | :39:51. | |
correspondent, Stephen Walker, was in Derry to look | :39:52. | :39:54. | |
at some of the key tests the new SDLP leader faces. | :39:55. | :40:02. | |
The timing of this conference and the location is no accident. | :40:03. | :40:10. | |
Political party gatherings generate publicity, and on this occasion this | :40:11. | :40:13. | |
meant live television coverage on a Saturday evening. Two months away | :40:14. | :40:17. | |
from these assembly elections, the SDLP hope this event will kick-start | :40:18. | :40:22. | |
their campaign, and give them an electoral boost. So, after four | :40:23. | :40:28. | |
months as leader, how should we assessed Colum Eastwood? The | :40:29. | :40:31. | |
difficulty is that the SDLP didn't get much of the bounce by getting | :40:32. | :40:35. | |
him as the leader, and they have improved, he is slightly more | :40:36. | :40:39. | |
popular as a leader, but he has been overshadowed by Arlene Foster, and | :40:40. | :40:43. | |
has a lot of work to do between now and the election if he wants to | :40:44. | :40:46. | |
actually cement the numbers that he have, to grow, to get more seats. In | :40:47. | :40:53. | |
May, he fights a fight in his own backyard. Martin McGuinness has been | :40:54. | :40:57. | |
brought in as one of three Sinn Fein candidates in foil. They obviously | :40:58. | :41:01. | |
think that bringing Martin McGuinness back to Derry is a great | :41:02. | :41:05. | |
strategic move. I would have the same most people in Derry will be | :41:06. | :41:09. | |
asking if that was the case then why he hasn't been representing the | :41:10. | :41:12. | |
place for the last 20 years customer why now? There might be a bitter | :41:13. | :41:17. | |
cynicism about that. So who will win this big political battle between | :41:18. | :41:22. | |
Sinn Fein and the SDLP? To some observers, the result in this | :41:23. | :41:26. | |
constituency inmate could end up defining Colum Eastwood's | :41:27. | :41:29. | |
leadership. This is ground zero for the SDLP. If he can see Martin | :41:30. | :41:36. | |
McGuinness off and Sinn Fein off here then he will have | :41:37. | :41:39. | |
McGuinness off and Sinn Fein off victory on May five, maybe if they | :41:40. | :41:40. | |
even lose other seats like in Belfast, the fact that Sinn Fein | :41:41. | :41:48. | |
will have put the best man they have forward, and column has held with | :41:49. | :41:51. | |
the seats, that will solidify his leadership over the next few years. | :41:52. | :41:55. | |
So how many seats will they win in May? I think it is foolish to | :41:56. | :42:02. | |
So how many seats will they win in their seat, and I know that the | :42:03. | :42:04. | |
electorate will give us a chance on the 5th of May and we will see a | :42:05. | :42:08. | |
number of us return. Are you worried your colleagues might use your | :42:09. | :42:13. | |
seats? -- lose your seats is too have always worked hard to get seats | :42:14. | :42:20. | |
in election. We have worked hard, and we hope that people will reward | :42:21. | :42:26. | |
us for our efforts? What can he achieve? If he can hold onto the | :42:27. | :42:32. | |
14th then he will be success. If he gains in Fermanagh, then so much the | :42:33. | :42:35. | |
better, but he stands a past brick of going down to 11 seats, and that | :42:36. | :42:42. | |
would cast a shadow over the future of the future. Last fight he won, it | :42:43. | :42:49. | |
was the biggest of his life. This time the stakes are higher, | :42:50. | :42:54. | |
Let's talk live now to Colum Eastwood from our Foyle studio. | :42:55. | :42:58. | |
Thank you very much for joining us on the programme. Not surprisingly, | :42:59. | :43:01. | |
you have a tub thumping on the programme. Not surprisingly, | :43:02. | :43:06. | |
the party faithful for your speech last night was that had you expend | :43:07. | :43:11. | |
that way your messages received less enthusiastically? I think have a big | :43:12. | :43:14. | |
job to do doodle to be enthusiastically? I think have a big | :43:15. | :43:17. | |
Yesterday was the start of that. The SDLP are setting out a new vision | :43:18. | :43:21. | |
for a new Ireland and I think it was very exciting Derry. Anyone around | :43:22. | :43:28. | |
Sun column's hall yesterday noticed the SDLP, noticed the buzz and the | :43:29. | :43:30. | |
new field of excitement that we have. We are ready for a fight, with | :43:31. | :43:34. | |
a huge new team of people, have. We are ready for a fight, with | :43:35. | :43:38. | |
talented people, I can win seats right across the north and I think | :43:39. | :43:44. | |
we will. We will begin to change our politics | :43:45. | :43:46. | |
we will. We will begin to change our because people are fed up of | :43:47. | :43:50. | |
we will. We will begin to change our years of unbroken DUP and Sinn Fein | :43:51. | :43:52. | |
control of the Executive with very little being delivered so I think | :43:53. | :43:56. | |
people want to see politics moving on to a | :43:57. | :44:00. | |
people want to see politics moving accountability. You aim is anybody | :44:01. | :44:01. | |
banshees in accountability. You aim is anybody | :44:02. | :44:05. | |
Fein last night. You are of course fishing in the same pool for | :44:06. | :44:09. | |
Fein last night. You are of course Only difference the FDA -- had you | :44:10. | :44:13. | |
differentiate the SDLP and Sinn Fein? Our passion is | :44:14. | :44:17. | |
differentiate the SDLP and Sinn Ireland work. -- making Northern | :44:18. | :44:25. | |
Ireland work. Makes more sense than Sinn Fein's record in government. | :44:26. | :44:29. | |
They have a poor record in charge. Nothing has happened in the | :44:30. | :44:33. | |
government for nine years without the Sinn Fein and DUP agreement. | :44:34. | :44:38. | |
They have cut university places, thousands of young people are | :44:39. | :44:42. | |
leaving our shores to find work. 37% of the people going to university | :44:43. | :44:45. | |
had away to Britain, and most never come back. That is the legacy of | :44:46. | :44:50. | |
this executive, that the executives's legacy of the DUP. And | :44:51. | :44:55. | |
Sinn Fein. We will invest in the economy, we invest in skills and | :44:56. | :44:58. | |
infrastructure because we can understand that you can't build an | :44:59. | :45:02. | |
economy based on one tax rate alone. With the greatest respect, your | :45:03. | :45:04. | |
fingertips are all over the legacy of the Northern Ireland legacy of | :45:05. | :45:10. | |
the last 20 years. Former leaders of your party have been finance | :45:11. | :45:15. | |
minister, social development Minister, environment Minister... If | :45:16. | :45:19. | |
you are found wanting in any of these clear areas, the SDLP is as | :45:20. | :45:24. | |
lovable as anyone else. The SDLP were in government when things got | :45:25. | :45:28. | |
done, but we did not pull down the Executive, it was other parties from | :45:29. | :45:32. | |
other sides. We have now had nine years of unbroken devolution that is | :45:33. | :45:36. | |
a good thing. I think anyone would however tell you that it hasn't been | :45:37. | :45:41. | |
a delivery. It has been stopped start politics stop it has been | :45:42. | :45:44. | |
about people making an argument about who should be First Minister. | :45:45. | :45:47. | |
They don't deliver for Northern Ireland. We have had one ministry, | :45:48. | :45:51. | |
and with that ministry we have done a lot of good things. We would like | :45:52. | :45:55. | |
to have more influence in this executive, and that is why we are | :45:56. | :45:58. | |
going to set out our stall and a manifesto very soon and one for | :45:59. | :46:02. | |
election. We have an election, and we are going into a programme for | :46:03. | :46:05. | |
government negotiation, and then we will see of the other parties are up | :46:06. | :46:14. | |
for making the real change at Northern Ireland needs. Did you | :46:15. | :46:16. | |
perhaps reveal your hands due to rate and extent in talking about the | :46:17. | :46:19. | |
conditions that need to be met for the SDLP to go into the Executive | :46:20. | :46:22. | |
based on signing up to the programme for government? You gave away your | :46:23. | :46:26. | |
entire hand last night. I don't think I did. In fact you will see | :46:27. | :46:29. | |
when we produce the manifesto in the coming week that we have a lot more. | :46:30. | :46:34. | |
To ask of this programme for government negotiation. The SDLP set | :46:35. | :46:37. | |
out very clearly last night that we want to see investment and | :46:38. | :46:42. | |
infrastructure and skills, and the economy turning round. We want to | :46:43. | :46:46. | |
stem the tide of emigration. We don't want to see our young people | :46:47. | :46:49. | |
leave and never come back. That is what we want to see in this proposal | :46:50. | :46:53. | |
for government. We have plenty more proposals. You named the specific | :46:54. | :46:57. | |
present last night, showed us the colour of your money. He made it | :46:58. | :47:04. | |
very clear that there was requirements for commitments to | :47:05. | :47:10. | |
distribute in jobs, economic infrastructure, fiscal powers... | :47:11. | :47:13. | |
What did you not tell us that we would have yet to hear? I think it | :47:14. | :47:17. | |
would make no sense for us to go into the next mandate and say we | :47:18. | :47:24. | |
weren't going to invest in infrastructure, University places, | :47:25. | :47:26. | |
we weren't going to try the economy around, because it is not good | :47:27. | :47:30. | |
enough that thousands of a young people use Billy Magaluf our shores. | :47:31. | :47:35. | |
You have said that the background is shrinking is a and you want to make | :47:36. | :47:40. | |
all these investments and critical and keeps you enter the executives, | :47:41. | :47:44. | |
where will that money come from? But you will have the disinvest | :47:45. | :47:47. | |
somewhere. We have large pot of money that we can use. What this | :47:48. | :47:54. | |
executive is doing is spending ?700 million, ?700 million that should be | :47:55. | :47:58. | |
used, ring fenced for investing in infrastructure but they are using | :47:59. | :48:01. | |
that to get rid of civil servants. That is not the proper use of our | :48:02. | :48:05. | |
money. It is happening, you can't stop it. Civil servants had been | :48:06. | :48:11. | |
made redundant, left the employment, you can't get the money back again. | :48:12. | :48:16. | |
The point is is that is one example about how the Executive don't think | :48:17. | :48:19. | |
strategically about what they can do. This will be a negotiation which | :48:20. | :48:22. | |
we look forward to, and the SDLP is running for government. We are | :48:23. | :48:25. | |
putting forward a manifesto which you will see in the coming weeks | :48:26. | :48:29. | |
that will be full of good strong plans for investing in the public | :48:30. | :48:33. | |
sector, and the economy, and I think we will see the colour of other | :48:34. | :48:36. | |
people's money at that point, whether they will be prepared to do | :48:37. | :48:39. | |
this. This is a departure for politics in Northern Ireland. I | :48:40. | :48:47. | |
don't think government so far has been good for politics. Let us talk | :48:48. | :48:50. | |
about social issues come up on one particular issue that SDLP looks | :48:51. | :48:58. | |
socially liberal a lot less than Sinn Fein. Let's take self Belfast, | :48:59. | :49:03. | |
Claire Hanna abstaining on the particular issue in there. Fearghal | :49:04. | :49:09. | |
McKinney dead toe the line. What does that say to a middle-class | :49:10. | :49:14. | |
nationalist motor in south Belfast, someone unsure about voting for Sinn | :49:15. | :49:16. | |
Fein, but is hearing a very mixed message from the SDLP? What | :49:17. | :49:21. | |
precisely does the SDLP stand for? Well, when you look at what we did | :49:22. | :49:25. | |
on that day, there was two amendments that were ill thought | :49:26. | :49:30. | |
out, that legal advice told us wouldn't work, that doctors told us | :49:31. | :49:33. | |
wouldn't be helpful to them. We decided we could not support those | :49:34. | :49:36. | |
amendments at that time. That was quite clear, and we also said that | :49:37. | :49:40. | |
we need to see guidelines to deal with the issue... Who got that right | :49:41. | :49:46. | |
on that day? Who, Fearghal McKinney or Claire Hanna? The SDLP's position | :49:47. | :49:51. | |
was clear. Claire Hanna was not wrong. There are many got it right? | :49:52. | :49:57. | |
The party position is, and I'm telling you it now, as the party | :49:58. | :50:01. | |
leader, the party position is that we could not support those | :50:02. | :50:03. | |
amendments because they did not make sense legally, didn't make sense | :50:04. | :50:06. | |
medically, and it would not have worked. So what is the voter to make | :50:07. | :50:13. | |
of that? You say that the party position is what Fearghal McKinney | :50:14. | :50:16. | |
adhered to as party leader, Claire Hanna did not, but you tell me she | :50:17. | :50:20. | |
was not wrong. You can't have your cake and eat it. You are | :50:21. | :50:24. | |
interviewing me and telling me my position with our position is clear. | :50:25. | :50:28. | |
Maybe you should tell Claire Hanna because she doesn't seem to know. | :50:29. | :50:32. | |
She does know. I have written to Martin McGuinness, Arlene Foster, | :50:33. | :50:35. | |
Simon Hamilton was I have asked them to bring forward guidelines to deal | :50:36. | :50:39. | |
with this issue and we are told they are coming. They have not come to | :50:40. | :50:43. | |
the Executive yet, I look forward to them, because I think this is a very | :50:44. | :50:46. | |
important issue, a sensitive issue and one that we need to handle | :50:47. | :50:49. | |
sensitively, and we need to make sure that the Irish do their job | :50:50. | :50:54. | |
properly was protecting life. -- Irish doctors. They may ask you how | :50:55. | :50:57. | |
do you hope to turn around the juggernaut of nationalist votes | :50:58. | :51:02. | |
moving from the SDLP to Sinn Fein under your leadership? Since 1998, | :51:03. | :51:07. | |
your vote share has fallen from 22% to basically 14%. You have lost | :51:08. | :51:11. | |
84,000 votes, and at the same time Sinn Fein has gained 35,000 votes. | :51:12. | :51:17. | |
How do you turn that around? I think I set out last night that the SDLP | :51:18. | :51:22. | |
has for a long time now spends too much time looking back. What we will | :51:23. | :51:27. | |
do now is look forwards. We want is that adds a new vision for a new | :51:28. | :51:30. | |
Ireland and to do that we started last night. People will come with | :51:31. | :51:34. | |
us, and it is a long-term plan, I am under no illusions. It is a | :51:35. | :51:39. | |
difficult challenge, and that is the way I ran for leadership. I think | :51:40. | :51:44. | |
they can turn it around. I once people to see a renewed SDLP because | :51:45. | :51:49. | |
they know when the SDLP does well, Ireland's does well. If you can come | :51:50. | :51:55. | |
back with fewer than 14 seats, your leader shall be under pressure. This | :51:56. | :51:58. | |
is a long-term plan. I think we will do well in this election, I would | :51:59. | :52:02. | |
put numbers on it, but we are developing a long-term plan for | :52:03. | :52:06. | |
these feature of the party and the future of the country and I look | :52:07. | :52:10. | |
forward to doing that. What thank you for joining us. | :52:11. | :52:12. | |
Cathy, did the fightback start here? Yes I think it did. I think that one | :52:13. | :52:28. | |
of the things a party leader's stage is measured upon is how good they | :52:29. | :52:33. | |
are as a rate. The delivery of the speech was much more than previous | :52:34. | :52:37. | |
party speeches from the SDLP. There was a good thing. That is the | :52:38. | :52:41. | |
optics. That is the optics. The public narrative with the SDLP for a | :52:42. | :52:46. | |
long time has been old, dated, stale. There were a lot of young | :52:47. | :52:49. | |
people there yesterday and I saw that myself. Maybe the public | :52:50. | :52:53. | |
narrative is not necessarily keeping in step yet with the changes that | :52:54. | :52:57. | |
the new party leader has made, and to pick up on the point about | :52:58. | :53:00. | |
whether he had declared his hand too much in terms of what he would do | :53:01. | :53:04. | |
with programme for comment, I think you do a very clear red line there. | :53:05. | :53:09. | |
That we can assume that if Colum Eastwood and the party don't get | :53:10. | :53:12. | |
what they want, from these negotiations on the programme for | :53:13. | :53:16. | |
government, they will go to opposition and declared that had | :53:17. | :53:19. | |
earlier because when the negotiations were going on and the | :53:20. | :53:22. | |
changes were being made to John McAllister opposition Bill, they had | :53:23. | :53:27. | |
a very influential role in that helping to the opposition. The SDLP | :53:28. | :53:35. | |
would not have done if they hadn't gone into opposition seriously. Do | :53:36. | :53:38. | |
you think declaring their hand in the way that they did last night was | :53:39. | :53:41. | |
a wise thing, a masterstroke or a foolish thing to do seven or eight | :53:42. | :53:49. | |
weeks from an election? Column will gaze at the minutiae. People don't | :53:50. | :53:56. | |
vote for minutiae. He needs a very clear message on certain things, so | :53:57. | :53:59. | |
if we had this ministry would stop this, or we would reduce waiting | :54:00. | :54:03. | |
lists, or we would invest in universities. One simple message. | :54:04. | :54:09. | |
Sinn Fein have a simple message. We a want a united Ireland, that their | :54:10. | :54:14. | |
politic. The one thing he does have is that he is leading a generation | :54:15. | :54:18. | |
that is very active, very clean, and will knock on doors, rally the | :54:19. | :54:22. | |
support base that they need. His fundamental problem is unlike Sinn | :54:23. | :54:30. | |
Fein he is trying to couch voting voters who are from a wide spectrum. | :54:31. | :54:35. | |
He is also looking at a fundamental problem in terms of those that don't | :54:36. | :54:39. | |
work. Those 35,000 votes that have gone to Sinn Fein... Those who have | :54:40. | :54:43. | |
would be back was at once you go, you don't go back. The 35,000 that | :54:44. | :54:50. | |
are still sitting out there, that he to capture. If you look at that | :54:51. | :54:55. | |
group through statistics etc, that group sits right across the | :54:56. | :54:59. | |
spectrum, pro-choice, pro-gay marriage, United Ireland, staying | :55:00. | :55:04. | |
within the UK... He has to catch up a awful lot of people who think very | :55:05. | :55:08. | |
differently. That is a real challenge for him, Cathy, he has to | :55:09. | :55:12. | |
be all things to all members in Derry where Martin McGuinness is | :55:13. | :55:15. | |
coming back to challenge him, he has due out green Sinn Fein, but where | :55:16. | :55:19. | |
else where he wants to pick up transfers from moderate unionists he | :55:20. | :55:24. | |
wants to extend the hand of friendship in that direction for | :55:25. | :55:27. | |
that a difficult trick to pull off. They tried this in the past which | :55:28. | :55:31. | |
ended up with just one minister in the Executive. The SDLP have a | :55:32. | :55:34. | |
serious question facing them. If they want the possibility of having | :55:35. | :55:39. | |
only one minister again, and we can say, well, you were part of the | :55:40. | :55:43. | |
institutions, it's as much of your fault as the DUP or Sinn Fein's | :55:44. | :55:47. | |
fault, lemon oratory partner in that executive the party will then have | :55:48. | :55:50. | |
to consider do we want to do this all over again? Or do want to do as | :55:51. | :55:56. | |
it every measure go into opposition, hold the two main parties to | :55:57. | :55:59. | |
account, and then come back stronger in the next election? And you had | :56:00. | :56:03. | |
the leader say that, that this is a long-term strategy. I don't | :56:04. | :56:05. | |
necessarily think that they want to grab it by May. Very briefly, he's | :56:06. | :56:10. | |
got 14 seats at the moment. Do you think he will come back with | :56:11. | :56:13. | |
something in and around that, and how dangerous for him is it if he | :56:14. | :56:18. | |
comes back with ten or 11? There is a lot of opportunity between now and | :56:19. | :56:22. | |
May is for a bit of a bounce. He is articulate, confident, and you will | :56:23. | :56:25. | |
be secure in that longer term strategy. He is catching a large | :56:26. | :56:29. | |
electorate. They will be difficult. Let's pause for a moment to look | :56:30. | :56:31. | |
back at the week gone past, The Republic has a new speaker, but | :56:32. | :56:45. | |
still no sign of a government. The truth of the matter is is there a | :56:46. | :56:51. | |
policy on ideological blocks against us entering a Fianna Fail | :56:52. | :56:55. | |
government. There is a strategic block from Fine Gael entering | :56:56. | :56:59. | |
government. At Stormont the Fed minister urges vigilance furs and -- | :57:00. | :57:07. | |
following recent dissident activity. The environment Minister apologised | :57:08. | :57:11. | |
for comments he made about abortion at a women's event in Londonderry. | :57:12. | :57:18. | |
His party colleague had enough of the affairs committee. Order, order! | :57:19. | :57:29. | |
Order! The DUP Ian Paisley was fined for driving without insurance, and | :57:30. | :57:34. | |
in County Derry, here where the Healy-Rae 's! There's no bride, | :57:35. | :57:41. | |
there's no groom, there's not any engagement ring. | :57:42. | :57:44. | |
Gareth Gordon there, featuring Peadar Toibin | :57:45. | :57:45. | |
and the unmistakable Healey-Raes, and we'll stick with the story | :57:46. | :57:49. | |
in the Republic, continually evolving day by day. | :57:50. | :57:53. | |
Some say regardless of the many twists and turns, this has only one | :57:54. | :57:56. | |
outcome, which is Fianna Fail and Fine Gael swallowing hard | :57:57. | :58:00. | |
and signing up to serving together in a grand coalition. | :58:01. | :58:08. | |
That's what my guests thing. Is that the inevitable outcome of the | :58:09. | :58:13. | |
wheeling and dealing taking place at the moment? As you told us, Fianna | :58:14. | :58:18. | |
Fail wants another election and they want it soon, and they want the | :58:19. | :58:24. | |
basis to be there like success, and what they have seen in the last | :58:25. | :58:27. | |
election was their return, Fianna Fail returning must more robustly | :58:28. | :58:31. | |
than anyone expected. In several constituencies they could have | :58:32. | :58:35. | |
picked up another seat. If he had another election, I think it is | :58:36. | :58:38. | |
right, they would gain more seats, people see that they are back, they | :58:39. | :58:44. | |
are confident, and have a role to play in Irish politics. That is | :58:45. | :58:46. | |
important, but the issue is within the party is that there is an old | :58:47. | :58:49. | |
guard which will not share file with Fiona Gale they want not to move | :58:50. | :58:54. | |
forward. Increasingly, another election could be really on the | :58:55. | :58:58. | |
cards. We will speak to Kathleen Justin a second. | :58:59. | :58:59. | |
Let's hear what Lisa Chambers and Peadar Toibin had to say | :59:00. | :59:02. | |
when I spoke to them about this on The View on Thursday night. | :59:03. | :59:06. | |
There is a core chip happening between the two political parties at | :59:07. | :59:12. | |
the moment, and for many members it will be unseemly for the two parties | :59:13. | :59:14. | |
to get together too quickly. They will waiting period of time before | :59:15. | :59:21. | |
they actually do that. There is a policy, and ideological block from | :59:22. | :59:24. | |
entering a Fianna Fail government, there is only a strategic block for | :59:25. | :59:29. | |
Fianna Fail and Fine Gael entering a government. Right from the start | :59:30. | :59:32. | |
there has been a rotation of government, either Fianna Fail Fine | :59:33. | :59:35. | |
Gael in government. They are worried that if two of them were to get | :59:36. | :59:38. | |
together in government on this occasion that that will be the end | :59:39. | :59:41. | |
of the process, that we would change politics in the south once and for | :59:42. | :59:46. | |
all. That is one opinion and I would reject it categorically pulls up if | :59:47. | :59:50. | |
that was the case, the two parties and address. For all sorts of God | :59:51. | :59:55. | |
did reason, there are two parties not just because of policy. Largely | :59:56. | :00:03. | |
to do with history. Our membership base is very different. There is | :00:04. | :00:06. | |
still a government in place, there is no chaos out there, we have a | :00:07. | :00:10. | |
decent government, continuing to do its work, and any pressing matters | :00:11. | :00:13. | |
needing to be dealt with will be dealt with in the chamber. | :00:14. | :00:17. | |
Interesting to hear those two very different perspectives on what is | :00:18. | :00:19. | |
happening. Happy what are your thoughts? Having what we can do at | :00:20. | :00:23. | |
this point is all we can do is describe at Billy Mager what will be | :00:24. | :00:26. | |
happening was we don't know what will be happening in a few months. A | :00:27. | :00:33. | |
grand coalition, a majority of Fianna Fail, a coalition... Belgium, | :00:34. | :00:39. | |
I think holds the world record for not having a government for a length | :00:40. | :00:45. | |
of 19 months at one point. 500 and something days. They were only | :00:46. | :00:48. | |
forced out of political deadlock at the time because the international | :00:49. | :00:53. | |
money markets and financial markets had basically indicated that they | :00:54. | :00:56. | |
would downgrade the credit rating of the country if they didn't form a | :00:57. | :01:01. | |
government. So it is a long time. In reality, just briefly Peter is that | :01:02. | :01:07. | |
we could come back with add similar kind of numbers is and you wouldn't | :01:08. | :01:12. | |
be any further forward. I think if they do business together, there are | :01:13. | :01:18. | |
different structures. They are different level parties. You can | :01:19. | :01:22. | |
fiddle about in the margins, but at some point there is Fianna Fail | :01:23. | :01:27. | |
being more attractive in the past in terms of drawing people together, | :01:28. | :01:32. | |
Healy-Rae's father was helping in the past four example. There is a | :01:33. | :01:36. | |
potential for them to come and many more seats to do that. We will both | :01:37. | :01:38. | |
see. They for years to come. Thank you very | :01:39. | :01:43. | |
much indeed. Now it is back to Andrew. | :01:44. | :01:47. | |
So, what's in store for us this week? | :01:48. | :01:50. | |
Well, just the small matter of George Osborne's Budget. | :01:51. | :01:52. | |
Another EU summit and the political diary's jam-packed with | :01:53. | :01:55. | |
Let's hear more from our Political Panel, and we're also | :01:56. | :02:02. | |
joined by the Conservative MP, David Davis. | :02:03. | :02:08. | |
100 days to go. Where are we at the moment in this campaign? Just on | :02:09. | :02:18. | |
polling, we are balanced with a large number of uncertainty. What | :02:19. | :02:24. | |
has happened in the last few weeks has been dominated with the flow of | :02:25. | :02:29. | |
events. Turkey has dominated peoples minds and that is what will happen | :02:30. | :02:33. | |
for most of the next 100 days. Events like that will force people. | :02:34. | :02:39. | |
Turkey is about security and immigration and so on. That is a | :02:40. | :02:44. | |
potential backdrop. If the Turkish deal begins to fall apart and the | :02:45. | :02:47. | |
migrant crisis continues, which almost certainly it will, that is | :02:48. | :02:51. | |
the kind of backdrop that is probably more helpful to your side | :02:52. | :02:55. | |
of the referendum than the other one? It is not an accident, a | :02:56. | :03:00. | |
structural outcome of the Schengen zone and the weakness of the eastern | :03:01. | :03:06. | |
border. On other fronts, the financial front, you have the Euro | :03:07. | :03:11. | |
structurally driving events. It seems to me the balance of | :03:12. | :03:14. | |
probabilities in the next 100 days will be those sorts of things are | :03:15. | :03:22. | |
actually going to favour a Brexit. For years and years, Mr Cameron, Mr | :03:23. | :03:29. | |
Osborne, Mr Hague and so on have been spewing out Eurosceptic | :03:30. | :03:36. | |
dialogue. Now they praise our membership of the EU! We cannot | :03:37. | :03:41. | |
survive without the EU. Doesn't that risk jarring a bit with the | :03:42. | :03:45. | |
electorate? I think it is absurd. We have a situation where the Prime | :03:46. | :03:50. | |
Minister gave a big speech at Chatham House. He said can if you | :03:51. | :03:55. | |
could not get the reforms, he would consider the alternative. Everything | :03:56. | :04:00. | |
was on the table. In two options can he would consider campaigning to | :04:01. | :04:03. | |
vote to leave. Now we are told if we left Britain, virtually | :04:04. | :04:10. | |
catastrophic. Plagues of locusts and we will probably all die. You cannot | :04:11. | :04:15. | |
say in November I will leave if I do not get my reforms and now say our | :04:16. | :04:19. | |
country will collapse. That cannot be true, otherwise he would have | :04:20. | :04:23. | |
been willing to leave the EU and risk economic collapse. I think it | :04:24. | :04:30. | |
is scare tactics by Project Fear and it has been very damaging. People | :04:31. | :04:37. | |
like me want Brexit but it is very damaging to the Conservative Party | :04:38. | :04:41. | |
and unity. Howdy you see the campaign going? It has been largely | :04:42. | :04:52. | |
dominated by the Vote Remain rather than the Vote Leave. Vote Remain | :04:53. | :05:01. | |
have chucked a lot at Vote Leave. Many reports have been pumped out. | :05:02. | :05:08. | |
They are in danger of using up all of that arguments for the race has | :05:09. | :05:11. | |
got going. It does look fairly balanced. Some polling has suggested | :05:12. | :05:18. | |
it leans a little towards the remaining side. Whenever people like | :05:19. | :05:24. | |
David or others say it is all Project Fear, for the silent group | :05:25. | :05:28. | |
of people and families with children who are not paying that much | :05:29. | :05:31. | |
attention, if you talk about fear at all, there is a slight sense of | :05:32. | :05:34. | |
maybe there is something to be fearful of after all. It works a | :05:35. | :05:40. | |
bit, I am sure it does, but for how long question that when the Danes | :05:41. | :05:44. | |
had their Euro referendum, the same thing happened. Eventually people | :05:45. | :05:48. | |
were going in for the mockery, as you were, saying we're going to have | :05:49. | :05:56. | |
a 17 foot high fence between us and Germany. That destroyed the campaign | :05:57. | :05:59. | |
for the one thing that has happened is the credibility of the Government | :06:00. | :06:04. | |
are doing has slipped quite a lot in the last few weeks and it is partly | :06:05. | :06:09. | |
because of the exaggeration. You have two friends getting slightly | :06:10. | :06:11. | |
nervous of it, slightly afraid of it, worrying about the risks. On the | :06:12. | :06:16. | |
other hand, they are starting to say, do we really believe all this | :06:17. | :06:22. | |
nonsense? That is the undetermined fact. It has not been a reasonable | :06:23. | :06:28. | |
debate about facts. Is it too early to see who has been nudging ahead? | :06:29. | :06:34. | |
What is significant is that David Davis has a tie in the colours of | :06:35. | :06:42. | |
Vote Leave. The other one is a green tie with black writing. This is an | :06:43. | :06:53. | |
issue of taste. I think what we are learning is the Brexit side is | :06:54. | :06:55. | |
winning skirmishes. The reason they are doing that is because they are | :06:56. | :07:00. | |
an insurgency. With an insurgency, it has six Cabinet ministers in it | :07:01. | :07:04. | |
and that is exciting. You will clearly set the news agenda. The | :07:05. | :07:09. | |
battle in the overall war, you would assume that Remain is nudging ahead | :07:10. | :07:14. | |
because the polling after the Prime Minister Pozner Diehl said voters | :07:15. | :07:21. | |
were impressed by that. Vote Leave have an incredibly simple and | :07:22. | :07:26. | |
incredibly powerful message. Take back control. You may well find that | :07:27. | :07:30. | |
message is so simple and so clear that that might achieve a cut | :07:31. | :07:38. | |
through. Is the queen on the Brexit side or not? I do not think anyone | :07:39. | :07:43. | |
is questioning she is a Eurosceptic. Even at the palace they are not | :07:44. | :07:48. | |
disputing that and the complaint may have made about the story in the Sun | :07:49. | :07:51. | |
newspaper last week. People have said she has in making these | :07:52. | :07:55. | |
comments for some time. Cabinet ministers have told me they do | :07:56. | :07:58. | |
similar things. This woman puts the mother bubble things -- the | :07:59. | :08:07. | |
Commonwealth above all things. She defends the laws and traditions of | :08:08. | :08:13. | |
this country as well. Not Brexit necessarily but Eurosceptic? That | :08:14. | :08:19. | |
seems incontrovertible. The palace and Number 10 are not disputing that | :08:20. | :08:26. | |
at all. It is great to have the Queen onside but I would like her to | :08:27. | :08:30. | |
have one vote. She does not have a vote at all. Is this more within the | :08:31. | :08:42. | |
Tory family question is it more bitter than you thought? Will it get | :08:43. | :08:49. | |
more bitter as time goes on? Even if Mr Cameron wins, he may find it hard | :08:50. | :08:53. | |
to put it together again. I do not think so. It is robust, pretty | :08:54. | :08:58. | |
robust. To some extent he sets the tone himself if he is rude about | :08:59. | :09:04. | |
Boris, there is a backlash. Some say he regards Boris in the same way he | :09:05. | :09:11. | |
regards Ed Balls. A scan and he cannot stop picking at it. This is | :09:12. | :09:21. | |
outside the house and takes quite a lot of poison out of it. It is | :09:22. | :09:26. | |
robust and fears. People are taking it incredibly seriously. How is | :09:27. | :09:32. | |
Boris doing? Pretty well. What is his real value? He draws attention | :09:33. | :09:36. | |
to the issue and adds credibility to it. He makes the odd mistake and | :09:37. | :09:41. | |
everyone forgives him for it. On balance, very useful and important. | :09:42. | :09:50. | |
What about cross-party appeal? The Government began by emphasising the | :09:51. | :09:54. | |
security implications of staying in, saying we needed to stay because of | :09:55. | :09:59. | |
security. I think they have found that a tough argument because people | :10:00. | :10:02. | |
do not associate EU with security. They will move on economic arguments | :10:03. | :10:07. | |
now. The problem with economic arguments is they are nowhere near | :10:08. | :10:12. | |
well-defined as clear and cut -- clearly cut as they were in 1975. | :10:13. | :10:18. | |
They want to make a big picture argument. David Cameron got this | :10:19. | :10:24. | |
deal on the Friday in Brussels. At 7:30pm, George Osborne was on the | :10:25. | :10:30. | |
today programme making a massive destiny economic security argument. | :10:31. | :10:34. | |
They know you cannot focus on the nitty-gritty of that. You have to | :10:35. | :10:38. | |
make the big picture argument. It is potentially a mixed picture. David | :10:39. | :10:42. | |
was saying earlier there is a major crisis in the Eurozone in the next | :10:43. | :10:47. | |
few months, then that could be difficult. You have the opt out full | :10:48. | :10:51. | |
stop when you are in government, there was an opt out from Britain | :10:52. | :10:56. | |
having to join the euro. There is a major crisis. Two European summits | :10:57. | :11:05. | |
in one week. That was not the case when we voted in 1975. The common | :11:06. | :11:09. | |
market was seen as a successful, economic unit that we needed to | :11:10. | :11:15. | |
join. The atmospherics are very different. For 20 years, it was the | :11:16. | :11:21. | |
most successful economic unit, until about the early 90s. Since then we | :11:22. | :11:28. | |
have got nothing. That is what people are seeing. We are moving on | :11:29. | :11:34. | |
to the economic arguments. We have the budget which frames it. They're | :11:35. | :11:37. | |
going to see Barack Obama coming here towards the end of April. | :11:38. | :11:42. | |
You'll be making the argument and doing several events, as I | :11:43. | :11:51. | |
understand it. He owes him a favour. Basically, what you're going to get | :11:52. | :11:55. | |
as a return to the security argument. Returning to where we | :11:56. | :11:59. | |
started this debate, you have got a situation where events will often | :12:00. | :12:04. | |
favoured the out side but the control and ability to stage managed | :12:05. | :12:07. | |
different moments is with the governments. -- the Government. They | :12:08. | :12:15. | |
published a letter with generals on it and have not signed it. One of | :12:16. | :12:22. | |
the generals came out this morning and said he was supporting the | :12:23. | :12:26. | |
Government. It is from the Scottish referendum playbook. That worked. We | :12:27. | :12:32. | |
saw Nicola Sturgeon struggling an hour ago, to explain basic, fiscal | :12:33. | :12:37. | |
point about an independent Scotland but that is why Scotland voted to | :12:38. | :12:40. | |
stay in the UK. You do not know whether the Government will have | :12:41. | :12:45. | |
that element of certainty. As things stand at the moment, are we in or | :12:46. | :12:51. | |
out? The last time I was here I cautiously gave numbers. I would | :12:52. | :12:55. | |
still cautiously stay in. Depressingly I feel we would remain. | :12:56. | :13:04. | |
In with a suppose so vote. None of you overly enthusiast take. We are | :13:05. | :13:08. | |
right on a knife edge in terms of public opinions. We live in a world | :13:09. | :13:17. | |
where the consensus opinion these days is usually wrong. | :13:18. | :13:21. | |
I'll be back next week, same time same place. | :13:22. | :13:24. | |
Remember if it's Sunday, it's the Sunday Politics. | :13:25. | :13:31. |