Browse content similar to 14/05/2017. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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It's Sunday morning and this is the Sunday Politics. | :00:38. | :00:41. | |
Theresa May unveils plans to build many more affordable homes | :00:42. | :00:45. | |
in England, but with no price tag, timetable or building targets - | :00:46. | :00:48. | |
Labour takes aim at the City with what it calls a Robin Hood Tax | :00:49. | :00:55. | |
to fund public services, but will traders just | :00:56. | :00:56. | |
Don't look at the polls - Jeremy Corbyn, at least, | :00:57. | :01:00. | |
insists he can win this election - so which way will | :01:01. | :01:03. | |
And coming up here: group in Leeds. | :01:04. | :01:18. | |
and here, what the parties are saying about tackling the air | :01:19. | :01:19. | |
pollution problem in London. And coming up here: | :01:20. | :01:26. | |
selected focus group of political pundits - | :01:27. | :01:30. | |
they're not so much Can the Alliance Party | :01:31. | :01:31. | |
translate its success undecided as clueless - | :01:32. | :01:32. | |
Tom Newton Dunn, Isabel Oakeshott So, we've got two new | :01:33. | :01:34. | |
policies this morning. Labour say they will introduce | :01:35. | :01:43. | |
a financial transaction tax if they win the general election | :01:44. | :01:45. | |
and what they're calling "the biggest crackdown on tax | :01:46. | :01:48. | |
avoidance in the country's history". The Conservatives say they'll work | :01:49. | :01:50. | |
with local authorities in England to build council houses | :01:51. | :01:52. | |
with the right to buy. Theresa May says the policy | :01:53. | :01:55. | |
"will help thousands of people get on the first rung | :01:56. | :01:57. | |
of the housing ladder". Steve, what do you make of them? I | :01:58. | :02:10. | |
have been conditioned after doing tax and spend debates in | :02:11. | :02:14. | |
pre-election periods for many decades to treat policy is not as | :02:15. | :02:18. | |
literal but as arguments. In other words if you look back to 2015 the | :02:19. | :02:22. | |
Tory plan to wipe out the deficit was never going to happen and yet it | :02:23. | :02:27. | |
framed and large event. In that sense the Robin Hood tax is a | :02:28. | :02:31. | |
sensible move for Labour to make at this point because it is part of a | :02:32. | :02:36. | |
narrative of reconfiguring taxation to be fair. Treating it as an | :02:37. | :02:39. | |
argument rather than something that would happen in day one of Labour | :02:40. | :02:46. | |
government is sensible. In terms of building houses Theresa May said | :02:47. | :02:49. | |
right from the beginning when she was in Number Ten that there is a | :02:50. | :02:52. | |
housing deficit in this country rather than the economic deficit | :02:53. | :02:56. | |
George Osborne was focusing on, and this is an example of trying to get | :02:57. | :03:01. | |
house-building going. It seems entirely sensible, not sure how it | :03:02. | :03:05. | |
works with right to buy but again as framing of a 90 minute it makes | :03:06. | :03:10. | |
sense. I disagree with Steve on one front which is how sensible Theresa | :03:11. | :03:18. | |
May's policy is on the housing announcement. I think more broadly | :03:19. | :03:22. | |
these two announcements have something in common which is that | :03:23. | :03:25. | |
over the next 24 hours both will probably unravel in different ways. | :03:26. | :03:32. | |
Ye of little faith! The Mayor of London has already said he doesn't | :03:33. | :03:36. | |
agree with this, and when people see the actual impact of what looks like | :03:37. | :03:42. | |
a populist tax will very potentially affect people's pensions, it might | :03:43. | :03:47. | |
become a lot less popular. On the Tory housing plans, I think it is | :03:48. | :03:51. | |
difficult to imagine how they are going to implement this huge, what | :03:52. | :03:56. | |
looks like a huge land and property grab. Through compulsory purchase | :03:57. | :04:01. | |
orders, which are not a simple instrument. They say they will | :04:02. | :04:05. | |
change the law but really the idea of paying people below the market | :04:06. | :04:09. | |
value for their assets is not something I can see sitting easily | :04:10. | :04:14. | |
with Tory backbenchers or the Tories in the House of Lords. Tom. Both | :04:15. | :04:21. | |
would appear superficially to be appealing to traditional left and | :04:22. | :04:25. | |
traditional right bases. What is more Tory than right to buy, then | :04:26. | :04:32. | |
councils sell on these houses, and Labour slapping a massive tax on the | :04:33. | :04:39. | |
city. The Tories' plan, I would say look a bit deeper and all of the | :04:40. | :04:42. | |
Tory narrative from the last six years which hasn't worked well is | :04:43. | :04:47. | |
talking about the private sector increasing supply in the market. Now | :04:48. | :04:51. | |
Mrs May is talking about the role for the state after all so this is | :04:52. | :04:59. | |
the shift creeping in. On the Labour transaction tax, one of the most | :05:00. | :05:03. | |
interesting things I heard in days was from Paul Mason, former BBC | :05:04. | :05:10. | |
correspondent, now a cog in Easter extreme. On Newsnight he said don't | :05:11. | :05:13. | |
worry about whether the Labour manifesto will add up, I'm promising | :05:14. | :05:18. | |
it will, the bigger Tory attack line should be what on earth will be the | :05:19. | :05:25. | |
macroeconomic effect of taking so much tax out of the system. Very | :05:26. | :05:30. | |
well, we shall see. At least we have some policies to talk about. | :05:31. | :05:33. | |
Now, on Tuesday Labour will launch its manifesto. | :05:34. | :05:35. | |
But we've already got a pretty good idea of what's in it - | :05:36. | :05:38. | |
that's because most of its contents were leaked to the media | :05:39. | :05:40. | |
Labour has a variety of spending pledges including an extra | :05:41. | :05:49. | |
?6 billion a year for the NHS, an additional ?8 billion for social | :05:50. | :05:52. | |
care over the lifetime of the next parliament, | :05:53. | :05:54. | |
as well as a ?250 billion in infrastructure over | :05:55. | :05:56. | |
The party will support the renewal of the Trident submarine system, | :05:57. | :06:03. | |
although any Prime Minister should be extremely cautious | :06:04. | :06:05. | |
about its use, and the party will hold a strategic defence | :06:06. | :06:08. | |
and security review immediately after the election. | :06:09. | :06:11. | |
In terms of immigration, Labour will seek "reasonable | :06:12. | :06:13. | |
management of migration", but it will not make "false | :06:14. | :06:15. | |
Elsewhere, university tuition fees will be abolished, | :06:16. | :06:22. | |
and the public sector pay cap, which limits pay rises | :06:23. | :06:24. | |
for public sector workers to 1%, will be scrapped. | :06:25. | :06:28. | |
The party also aims to renationalise the railways, the Royal Mail | :06:29. | :06:31. | |
and the National Grid, as well as creating at least one | :06:32. | :06:38. | |
A senior Labour backbencher described it to the Sunday Politics | :06:39. | :06:43. | |
as a manifesto for a leadership who don't "give a toss | :06:44. | :06:46. | |
about the wider public", and several other Labour candidates | :06:47. | :06:48. | |
told us they thought it had been deliberately | :06:49. | :06:50. | |
leaked by the leadership, with one suggesting | :06:51. | :06:54. | |
the leak was intended to "bounce the National Executive" | :06:55. | :06:56. | |
And we're joined now from Salford by the Shadow Business Secretary, | :06:57. | :06:59. | |
Welcome to the programme. The draft manifesto proposed to renationalise | :07:00. | :07:08. | |
the number of industry. You will wait for the franchises to run out | :07:09. | :07:12. | |
rather than buy them out at the moment so can you confirm the | :07:13. | :07:17. | |
railways will not be wholly nationalised until 2030, after three | :07:18. | :07:21. | |
Labour governments, and Jeremy Corbyn will be 80? I'm not going to | :07:22. | :07:27. | |
comment on leaks, you will just have to be patient and wait to see what | :07:28. | :07:34. | |
is in our manifesto. But you have already announced you will | :07:35. | :07:38. | |
nationalise the railways, so tell me about it. We have discussed taking | :07:39. | :07:43. | |
the franchises into public ownership as they expire, however the detail | :07:44. | :07:47. | |
will be set out in the manifesto so I'm not prepared to go into detail | :07:48. | :07:52. | |
until that policy is formally laid out on Tuesday. That doesn't sound | :07:53. | :07:56. | |
very hopeful but let's carry on. You will also nationalise the National | :07:57. | :08:03. | |
Grid, it has a market capitalisation of ?40 billion, why do you want to | :08:04. | :08:08. | |
nationalise that? Again, I'm not going to speculate on leaks, you | :08:09. | :08:13. | |
will just have to be patient. But you said you will nationalise the | :08:14. | :08:19. | |
National Grid so tell's Y. The leaks have suggested but you will just | :08:20. | :08:23. | |
have to wait and see what the final manifesto states on that one. So is | :08:24. | :08:27. | |
it a waste of time me asking you how you will pay for something that | :08:28. | :08:32. | |
costs 40 billion? Be patient, just couple of days to go, but what I | :08:33. | :08:38. | |
would say is there is growing pressure from the public to reform | :08:39. | :08:42. | |
the utilities sector. The Competition and Markets Authority | :08:43. | :08:45. | |
stated in 2015 that bill payers were paying over till debt -- ?2 billion | :08:46. | :08:51. | |
in excess of what they should be paying so there is a clear need for | :08:52. | :08:57. | |
reform. The bills we get are from the energy companies, you are not | :08:58. | :09:01. | |
going to nationalise them, you are going to nationalise the | :09:02. | :09:04. | |
distribution company and I wondered what is the case for nationalising | :09:05. | :09:09. | |
the distribution company? As I said, our full plans will be set out on | :09:10. | :09:14. | |
Tuesday. In relation to the big six energy companies, we know in recent | :09:15. | :09:17. | |
years they have been overcharging customers... There's no point in | :09:18. | :09:25. | |
answering questions I am not asking. I am asking what is the case for | :09:26. | :09:31. | |
nationalising the National Grid? There is a case for reforming the | :09:32. | :09:34. | |
energy sector as a whole and that looks at the activities of the big | :09:35. | :09:39. | |
six companies and it will look at other aspects too. You will have to | :09:40. | :09:44. | |
be patient and wait until Tuesday. What about the Royal Mail? Again, | :09:45. | :09:50. | |
you will have to wait until Tuesday. Why can't you just be honest with | :09:51. | :09:55. | |
the British voter? We know you are going to do this and you have a duty | :09:56. | :10:02. | |
to explain. I'm not even arguing whether it is right or wrong. The | :10:03. | :10:08. | |
Royal Mail was sold off and we know it was sold under value and British | :10:09. | :10:12. | |
taxpayers have a reason to feel aggrieved about that. There is a | :10:13. | :10:16. | |
long-term strategy that would ensure the Royal Mail was classified as a | :10:17. | :10:19. | |
key piece of infrastructure but the details of that will be set out in | :10:20. | :10:25. | |
our manifesto because we want to ensure businesses and households | :10:26. | :10:28. | |
ensure the best quality of service when it comes to their postal | :10:29. | :10:33. | |
providers. You plan to borrow an extra 25 billion per year, John | :10:34. | :10:38. | |
McDonnell has already announced this, on public investment, on top | :10:39. | :10:42. | |
of the around 50 billion already being planned for investment. You | :10:43. | :10:48. | |
will borrow it all so that means, if you can confirm, that many years | :10:49. | :10:55. | |
after the crash by 2021, Labour government would still be borrowing | :10:56. | :11:02. | |
75 billion a year. Is that correct? We have set out ?250 billion of | :11:03. | :11:08. | |
capital investment, and ?250 billion for a national investment bank. Our | :11:09. | :11:12. | |
financial and fiscal rules dictate we will leave the Government in a | :11:13. | :11:16. | |
state of less debt than we found it at the start of the parliament so we | :11:17. | :11:19. | |
won't increase the national debt at the end of our Parliamentary term. | :11:20. | :11:26. | |
How can you do that if by 2021 you will still be borrowing around 75 | :11:27. | :11:30. | |
billion a year, which is more than we borrow at the moment? The 500 | :11:31. | :11:37. | |
billion figure is set out over a period of ten years, it's a figure | :11:38. | :11:41. | |
that has been suggested by Peter Helm from Oxford University as a | :11:42. | :11:44. | |
figure that is necessary to bring us in line with other industrial | :11:45. | :11:48. | |
competitors. Similar figures have been suggested by groups such as the | :11:49. | :11:57. | |
CBI. By the way I have not included all 500 billion, just the 250 | :11:58. | :12:00. | |
billion on public spending, not the extra money. You talk about the | :12:01. | :12:05. | |
fiscal rules. The draft manifesto said you will leave debt as a | :12:06. | :12:10. | |
proportion of trend GDP law at the end of each parliament, you have | :12:11. | :12:17. | |
just said a version of that. What is trend GDP? In clear terms we will | :12:18. | :12:21. | |
ensure the debt we acquire will be reduced by the end of the | :12:22. | :12:25. | |
parliament. We won't leave the Government finances in a worse state | :12:26. | :12:32. | |
than we found them. OK, but what is trend GDP? Our rule is we will | :12:33. | :12:36. | |
ensure public sector net debt is less than we found it when we came | :12:37. | :12:41. | |
to power in Government on June the 8th. But that is not what your draft | :12:42. | :12:49. | |
manifesto says. I'm not going to comment on leaks, you are just going | :12:50. | :12:52. | |
to have to wait until Tuesday to look at the fine detail and perhaps | :12:53. | :12:57. | |
we will have another chat then. You have published your plans for | :12:58. | :13:01. | |
corporation tax and you will increase it by a third and your | :13:02. | :13:05. | |
predictions assumed that will get an extra 20 billion a year by the end | :13:06. | :13:10. | |
of the parliament. But that assumes the companies don't change their | :13:11. | :13:14. | |
behaviour, that they move money around, they leave the country or | :13:15. | :13:19. | |
they generate smaller profits. Is that realistic? You are right to | :13:20. | :13:24. | |
make that point and you will see when we set out our policies and | :13:25. | :13:28. | |
costings in the manifesto that we haven't spent all of the tax take. | :13:29. | :13:34. | |
We have allowed for different differentials and potential changes | :13:35. | :13:36. | |
in market activity because that would be approved and direction to | :13:37. | :13:41. | |
take. But corporation tax is allowed to be cut in France and the United | :13:42. | :13:49. | |
States, it's only 12.5% in Dublin. Many companies based in Britain are | :13:50. | :13:52. | |
already wondering whether they should relocate because of Brexit, | :13:53. | :13:57. | |
if you increase this tax by a third couldn't that clinch it for a number | :13:58. | :14:02. | |
of them? No, we will still be one of the lowest corporation tax rate in | :14:03. | :14:07. | |
the G7. Let's look at what's important for business. Cutting | :14:08. | :14:12. | |
corporation tax in itself doesn't improve productivity, or business | :14:13. | :14:16. | |
investment and there's no suggestion cutting corporation tax in recent | :14:17. | :14:19. | |
years has achieved that. Businesses need an investment in tools in | :14:20. | :14:25. | |
things they need to thrive and prosper, they also need to reduce | :14:26. | :14:30. | |
the burden at the lower end of the tax scale, before we get to the | :14:31. | :14:35. | |
Prophet stage. One key example is business rates. We have made the | :14:36. | :14:42. | |
proposal to government to in -- exclude machinery so businesses can | :14:43. | :14:45. | |
invest and grow operations in the future but the Government refused. | :14:46. | :14:52. | |
Corporation tax has been cut since 2010. When it was 28% it brought in | :14:53. | :15:02. | |
?43 billion a year. Now it is down to 20%, it brought in ?55 billion a | :15:03. | :15:09. | |
year. By cutting it in the last year, it brought in 21% more, so | :15:10. | :15:15. | |
what is the problem? It might have brought in more money, but has it | :15:16. | :15:19. | |
increased business investment in the long term. It is not just about | :15:20. | :15:25. | |
cutting corporation tax, but it is on the ability of businesses to | :15:26. | :15:29. | |
thrive and prosper. Business investment in the UK is below are | :15:30. | :15:35. | |
industrial competitors. Wages are stagnating which doesn't indicate | :15:36. | :15:42. | |
businesses are not doing well. Let me get it right, you are arguing if | :15:43. | :15:46. | |
we increase business tax by a third, that will increase investment? I am | :15:47. | :15:53. | |
not saying that. You just did. Know I didn't, I said reducing business | :15:54. | :16:01. | |
tax isn't enough, you have to invest in the things businesses need to | :16:02. | :16:04. | |
thrive and prosper. You have also got to lessen the burden on | :16:05. | :16:16. | |
business. You have announced a financial transaction tax. Your own | :16:17. | :16:21. | |
labour Mayor of London said he has vowed to fight it. He said I do not | :16:22. | :16:26. | |
want a unilateral tax on business in our city, so why are you proceeding | :16:27. | :16:31. | |
with it? This isn't a new initiative, there is a growing | :16:32. | :16:35. | |
global pressure to make sure we have fairness in the financial sector. | :16:36. | :16:39. | |
Ordinary British people are paying for our banking crisis they didn't | :16:40. | :16:45. | |
cause. Another important point, stamp duty reserve tax was brought | :16:46. | :16:50. | |
in in the 1600 and there have been little reforms. The sector has | :16:51. | :16:54. | |
changed and we have do provide changes to the system for that | :16:55. | :16:59. | |
change. High-frequency trading where we have a state of affairs where a | :17:00. | :17:04. | |
lot of shares are traded on computers within milliseconds. We | :17:05. | :17:08. | |
need a tax system that keeps up with that. What happens if they move the | :17:09. | :17:15. | |
computers to another country? Emily Thornaby said this morning, other | :17:16. | :17:20. | |
countries had already introduced a financial transaction tax, what | :17:21. | :17:23. | |
other countries have done that? There are ten countries looking at | :17:24. | :17:31. | |
introducing a transaction tax. Which ones have done it so far? They will | :17:32. | :17:38. | |
be later announcing a final package, going through the finer detail at | :17:39. | :17:43. | |
the moment. But the European Commission tried to get this done in | :17:44. | :17:47. | |
2011 and it still hasn't happened in any of these countries. But you are | :17:48. | :17:52. | |
going to go ahead unilaterally and risk these businesses, which | :17:53. | :17:57. | |
generate a lot of money, moving to other jurisdictions. There is not a | :17:58. | :18:01. | |
significant risk of that happening. The stamp duty reserve tax is levied | :18:02. | :18:12. | |
at either where the person or company is domiciled or where the | :18:13. | :18:17. | |
instrument is issued rather than worth the transaction takes place. | :18:18. | :18:22. | |
This tax in itself is not enough to make people leave this country in | :18:23. | :18:25. | |
terms of financial services because there is more to keep these | :18:26. | :18:30. | |
businesses here in terms of the investment we are making, the | :18:31. | :18:34. | |
economy that Labour will build, in terms of productivity improvement we | :18:35. | :18:38. | |
will see. Thank you very much, Rebecca Long-Bailey. | :18:39. | :18:42. | |
And listening to that was the Home Office Minister, Brandon Lewis. | :18:43. | :18:48. | |
Over the years, you have got corporation tax by 20%, it is lower | :18:49. | :18:54. | |
than international standards, so why are so many global companies who | :18:55. | :19:01. | |
make money out of Great Britain, still not paying 20%? It is one of | :19:02. | :19:06. | |
the problems with the point Labour were making and Rebecca could not | :19:07. | :19:09. | |
answer, these companies can move around the world. One of the | :19:10. | :19:15. | |
important things is having a low tax economy but these businesses, it | :19:16. | :19:19. | |
encourages them to come at a rate they are prepared to pay. People may | :19:20. | :19:24. | |
say they are right, if they were paying 19, 20% incorporation tax. | :19:25. | :19:30. | |
But they are not. Google runs a multi-million pound corporation and | :19:31. | :19:39. | |
did not pay anywhere near 20%. There are companies that are trading | :19:40. | :19:42. | |
internationally and that is why we have to get this work done with our | :19:43. | :19:51. | |
partners around the world. Has there been an improvement? It is more than | :19:52. | :19:55. | |
they were paying before. Whether it is Google or any other company, | :19:56. | :19:59. | |
alongside them being here, apart from the tax they pay, it is the | :20:00. | :20:05. | |
people they employ. The deal was, if you cut the business tax, the | :20:06. | :20:09. | |
corporation tax on profits, we would get more companies coming here and | :20:10. | :20:14. | |
more companies paying their tax. It seems it doesn't matter how low, a | :20:15. | :20:18. | |
number of companies just pay a derisory amount and you haven't been | :20:19. | :20:25. | |
able to change that. As you outlined, the income taken from the | :20:26. | :20:27. | |
changing corporation tax has gone up. That is from established British | :20:28. | :20:35. | |
companies, not from these international companies. It is | :20:36. | :20:38. | |
because more companies are coming here and paying tax. That is a good | :20:39. | :20:42. | |
thing. There is always more to do and that is why we want to crack | :20:43. | :20:48. | |
down. In the last few weeks in the Finnish Parliament, Labour refused | :20:49. | :20:52. | |
to put to another ?8.7 billion of tax take we could have got by | :20:53. | :20:58. | |
cracking down further. You claim to have made great progress on cracking | :20:59. | :21:03. | |
down on people and companies to pay the tax they should. But the tax gap | :21:04. | :21:08. | |
is the difference between what HMRC takes in and what it should take in. | :21:09. | :21:14. | |
It has barely moved in five years, so where is the progress? He have | :21:15. | :21:20. | |
brought in 150 billion more where we have cracked down on those tax | :21:21. | :21:24. | |
schemes. The gap is still the same as it was five years ago. It's gone | :21:25. | :21:34. | |
from 6.8, 26.5. It has gone down. The Prime Minister and the | :21:35. | :21:36. | |
Chancellor said they want to continue work on to get more money | :21:37. | :21:41. | |
on these companies while still having a competitive rate to | :21:42. | :21:47. | |
encourage these companies. While big business and the wealthy continue to | :21:48. | :21:52. | |
prosper, the Office for Budget Responsibility tell us those on | :21:53. | :21:55. | |
average earnings in this country will be earning less in real terms | :21:56. | :22:01. | |
by 2021 than they did in 2008. How can that be fair? I don't see it | :22:02. | :22:07. | |
that way. I haven't seen the figures you have got. What I can say to you, | :22:08. | :22:11. | |
Andrew, we have made sure the minimum wage has gone up, the actual | :22:12. | :22:17. | |
income tax people pay has gone down. So in their pocket, real terms, | :22:18. | :22:26. | |
people have more money. You are the self-styled party of work. We keep | :22:27. | :22:28. | |
emphasising work. Under your government you can work for 13 years | :22:29. | :22:32. | |
and still not earn any more at the end of it, and you did at the start. | :22:33. | :22:39. | |
Where is the reward for effort in that? I have not seen those figures. | :22:40. | :22:44. | |
There are 2.8 million more people, more jobs in economy than there was. | :22:45. | :22:50. | |
1000 jobs every day and people are working and developing through their | :22:51. | :22:54. | |
careers. This is what I thought was odd in what Rebecca was saying, | :22:55. | :22:58. | |
investing in people is what the apprenticeship levy is about, | :22:59. | :23:03. | |
companies are investing their works force to take more opportunities | :23:04. | :23:08. | |
that there. We are talking about fairness, politicians talk about | :23:09. | :23:11. | |
hard-working people and we know the average earnings are no higher than | :23:12. | :23:16. | |
they were in 2008. We know the pay and bonuses of senior executives | :23:17. | :23:21. | |
have continued to grow and the Institute for Fiscal Studies has | :23:22. | :23:24. | |
shown 3 million of the poorest households will lose an average of | :23:25. | :23:30. | |
?2500 a year in the next Parliament, benefits frozen, further sanctions | :23:31. | :23:36. | |
kick in. 3 million of the poorest losing 2500. Under the Tories, one | :23:37. | :23:40. | |
law for the rich and another for the poor. It is quite wrong. First of | :23:41. | :23:46. | |
all, we have got to be fair to the taxpayer who is funding the welfare | :23:47. | :23:51. | |
and benefit system. Which is why the welfare was right. Get more people | :23:52. | :23:57. | |
in work and then it is important to get more people upscaling. As that | :23:58. | :24:04. | |
allowance rises, people have more of the money they earn in their pocket | :24:05. | :24:09. | |
to be able to use in the economy. People will be worse off. 2500, | :24:10. | :24:15. | |
among the poorest already. They will have more money in their pocket as | :24:16. | :24:21. | |
we increase the allowance before people pay tax. We have seen | :24:22. | :24:27. | |
millions of people coming out of tax altogether. The reason I ask these | :24:28. | :24:31. | |
questions, you and the Prime Minister go on and on about the just | :24:32. | :24:36. | |
about managing classes. I am talking about the just about managing and | :24:37. | :24:40. | |
below that. It is all talk, you haven't done anything for them. We | :24:41. | :24:44. | |
have made sure they have an increasing minimum wage, it has gone | :24:45. | :24:49. | |
up more under us than any other previous government. Their wages | :24:50. | :24:55. | |
will be still lower in real terms. Let me come on to this plan for | :24:56. | :25:00. | |
housing. We have announced a new plan to increase affordable housing, | :25:01. | :25:05. | |
social housing, some council housing and social housing built by the | :25:06. | :25:09. | |
associations. How much money is behind this? It is part of the 1.4 | :25:10. | :25:13. | |
billion announced in the Autumn Statement. How many homes will you | :25:14. | :25:21. | |
get for 1.4 billion? That depends on the negotiations with local | :25:22. | :25:24. | |
authorities. It is local authorities, who know the area best. | :25:25. | :25:31. | |
I will not put a number on that. 1.4 billion, if you price the house at | :25:32. | :25:35. | |
100,000, which is very low, particularly for the South, back at | :25:36. | :25:41. | |
you 14,000 new homes. That is it. What we have seen before, how the | :25:42. | :25:46. | |
local government can leveraged to build thousands more homes. That is | :25:47. | :25:50. | |
what we want to see across the country. It is not just about the | :25:51. | :25:54. | |
money, for a lot of local authorities it is about the | :25:55. | :25:57. | |
expertise and knowledge on how to do this. That is why support from the | :25:58. | :26:03. | |
housing communities minister will help. What is the timescale, how | :26:04. | :26:09. | |
many more affordable homes will be built? I will not put a number on | :26:10. | :26:14. | |
it. You announced it today, so you cannot tell me how many more or what | :26:15. | :26:19. | |
the target is? It is a matter of working with the local authorities | :26:20. | :26:23. | |
who know what their local needs are, what land they have got available. | :26:24. | :26:26. | |
What we saw through the local elections with the Metro mayors, | :26:27. | :26:31. | |
they want to deliver in their areas, whether it is the West of England, | :26:32. | :26:34. | |
the north-east, Liverpool, Manchester and we want to work with | :26:35. | :26:39. | |
them. You have said variations of this for the past seven years and I | :26:40. | :26:43. | |
want some credibility. When you cannot tell us how much money, what | :26:44. | :26:49. | |
the target and timescale is, and this government, under which | :26:50. | :26:52. | |
affordable house building has fallen to a 24 year low. 1.2 million | :26:53. | :26:58. | |
families are on waiting lists for social housing to rent. That is your | :26:59. | :27:04. | |
record. Why should we believe a word you say? This is different to what | :27:05. | :27:08. | |
we have been doing over the last two years. We want to develop and have a | :27:09. | :27:13. | |
strong and stable economy that can sustain that 1.4 billion homes. This | :27:14. | :27:20. | |
is important. In 2010, we inherited the lowest level of house building, | :27:21. | :27:26. | |
75,000 new homes. That is about 189,000 over the last four years. | :27:27. | :27:31. | |
That is a big step forward after the crash, getting people back into the | :27:32. | :27:35. | |
industry. More first-time buyers onto the market. Final question, in | :27:36. | :27:46. | |
2010, 2011, your first year in government, there were 60,000 | :27:47. | :27:51. | |
affordable homes built. May not be enough, but last day it was 30 2000. | :27:52. | :27:59. | |
So why should we trust anything you say about this? On housing, we have | :28:00. | :28:06. | |
delivered. We have delivered more social housing. Double what Labour | :28:07. | :28:12. | |
did in 13 years, in just five years. This is what this policy is about, | :28:13. | :28:16. | |
working with local authorities to deliver more homes to people in | :28:17. | :28:17. | |
their local areas. Thank you. Now, they have a deficit | :28:18. | :28:21. | |
of between 15 and 20% in the polls, but Jeremy Corbyn and those | :28:22. | :28:24. | |
around him insist Labour can win. If the polls are right they've got | :28:25. | :28:27. | |
three and half weeks to change voters' minds and persuade those | :28:28. | :28:30. | |
fabled undecided voters We enlisted the polling organisation | :28:31. | :28:32. | |
YouGov to help us find out how the performance of party leaders | :28:33. | :28:37. | |
will affect behaviour Leeds, a city of three quarters | :28:38. | :28:39. | |
of a million people, eight Parliamentary seats and home | :28:40. | :28:49. | |
to our very own focus group. Our panel was recruited | :28:50. | :28:53. | |
from a variety of backgrounds and the majority say they haven't | :28:54. | :28:56. | |
decided who to vote for yet. Watching behind the glass, | :28:57. | :29:00. | |
two experts on different sides Giles Cunningham, who headed up | :29:01. | :29:02. | |
political press at Downing Street under David Cameron | :29:03. | :29:09. | |
and Aaron Bastani, Corbin supporter, under David Cameron | :29:10. | :29:16. | |
and Aaron Bastani, Corbyn supporter, I think Theresa May sees herself | :29:17. | :29:18. | |
as a pound shop Thatcher. Milliband's policies but when it | :29:19. | :29:22. | |
came about who you want, | :29:23. | :29:42. | |
if you wake up on maybe a 2015, We found in a couple of focus | :29:43. | :29:46. | |
groups, people saying we'd be quite relieved, | :29:47. | :29:50. | |
even though some of those same people have been saying we quite | :29:51. | :29:52. | |
like the Labour policies. I think the fact that Corbyn's | :29:53. | :29:54. | |
going so hard on his values, this is a really progressive | :29:55. | :29:59. | |
manifesto, they live But I think that's a new challenge, | :30:00. | :30:01. | |
that wasn't there in 2015. Is there anyone here that | :30:02. | :30:05. | |
you don't recognise? After a little warm up, | :30:06. | :30:07. | |
the first exercise, recognising I think it's nice to have a strong | :30:08. | :30:09. | |
woman in politics, I do. But I've got to say, | :30:10. | :30:16. | |
when she comes on the news, I kind of do think, | :30:17. | :30:18. | |
here we go again. Tell me about Tim Farron, what | :30:19. | :30:21. | |
are your impressions of Tim Farron? It isn't going to do anything, | :30:22. | :30:23. | |
it isn't going to change anything. You'll be surprised to hear it's | :30:24. | :30:28. | |
actually the Greens. Strong and stable leadership | :30:29. | :30:36. | |
in the national interest. Yes, Team May, it's | :30:37. | :30:49. | |
the British equivalent of make What do we think about this one | :30:50. | :30:54. | |
for the many and not the few? It's not quite as bad | :30:55. | :31:04. | |
as strong and stable, but it will probably get | :31:05. | :31:06. | |
on our nerves after a while. We must seize that chance today | :31:07. | :31:08. | |
and every day until June the 8th. But that's not quite my | :31:09. | :31:19. | |
question, my question is, if you are Prime Minister, | :31:20. | :31:26. | |
we will leave, come hell or high water, whatever is on the table | :31:27. | :31:29. | |
at the end of the negotiations? If we win the election, | :31:30. | :31:33. | |
we'll get a good deal with Europe. Assertive and in control | :31:34. | :31:35. | |
and he felt comfortable But the second one, I thought | :31:36. | :31:37. | |
he was very hesitant. I thought he was kind of, | :31:38. | :31:42. | |
hovering around, skirting around and that's the second | :31:43. | :31:51. | |
time I've seen a similar interview with the question | :31:52. | :31:54. | |
being asked regarding Brexit. I don't think I'd have | :31:55. | :31:56. | |
any confidence with him You think you are going up | :31:57. | :31:58. | |
against some quite strong people, how are you going to stand | :31:59. | :32:01. | |
up for us? When you are in negotiations, | :32:02. | :32:04. | |
you need to be tough. And actually is right | :32:05. | :32:08. | |
to be tough sometimes, particularly when you are doing | :32:09. | :32:10. | |
something for the country. There's a reason for talking | :32:11. | :32:12. | |
about strong and stable leadership. It's about the future | :32:13. | :32:15. | |
of the country, it's It's just that people kind of listen | :32:16. | :32:17. | |
to that kind of thing and think Both on The One Show | :32:18. | :32:22. | |
and in the news. She attracts the public better | :32:23. | :32:27. | |
than what Corbyn does. She didn't answer the question | :32:28. | :32:33. | |
in a more articular way than Corbyn Imagine that Theresa | :32:34. | :32:36. | |
May is an animal. So, in your minds, | :32:37. | :32:42. | |
what animal is coming to mind I've done a Pekinese because I think | :32:43. | :32:45. | |
she's all bark and no bite. Alpaca because she's | :32:46. | :32:59. | |
superior looking and woolly I don't think his policies | :33:00. | :33:06. | |
are for the modern, real world. A mouse because they are weak | :33:07. | :33:21. | |
and they can be easily bullied, but also they can catch | :33:22. | :33:25. | |
you by surprise if you're What do you take away | :33:26. | :33:27. | |
from what you saw then, and what message would you send back | :33:28. | :33:35. | |
to the Tories now? I think what came over is people see | :33:36. | :33:38. | |
Theresa May as a strong politician, not everyone likes her, | :33:39. | :33:41. | |
but you don't need to be liked to be elected, | :33:42. | :33:43. | |
because ultimately it's about who do you trust with your future | :33:44. | :33:46. | |
and your security. I think what I also take out | :33:47. | :33:48. | |
of that focus group, was it was a group of floating | :33:49. | :33:51. | |
voters, there was no huge appetite for the Lib Dems and there was no | :33:52. | :33:54. | |
huge appetite for Ukip. So my messaged back to CCHQ | :33:55. | :33:56. | |
would be stick to the plan. I thought the response | :33:57. | :33:59. | |
to the manifesto was excellent. It's clear that people aren't | :34:00. | :34:03. | |
particularly keen on Theresa May, There are some associations with her | :34:04. | :34:05. | |
about strength and stability, which is exactly what the Tory party | :34:06. | :34:10. | |
want of course, but they are not positive and nobody thinks | :34:11. | :34:13. | |
that she has a vision So, what I'd say the Jeremy Corbyn, | :34:14. | :34:15. | |
what I'd say to the Labour Party is, they need to really emphasise | :34:16. | :34:22. | |
the manifesto in Jeremy Corbyn himself has to perform | :34:23. | :34:24. | |
out of his skin and I think he has to reemphasise those | :34:25. | :34:30. | |
characteristics which may be have come to the fore may be | :34:31. | :34:33. | |
over the last 12 months, resilience, strength and the fact | :34:34. | :34:36. | |
that he's come this far, why not take that final step and go | :34:37. | :34:38. | |
into ten Downing Street? We're joined now by the American | :34:39. | :34:41. | |
political consultant For the sake of this discussion, | :34:42. | :34:48. | |
assume the polls at the moment are broadly right, is there any hope for | :34:49. | :34:56. | |
Mr Corbyn in the undecided voters? Know, and this is a very serious | :34:57. | :35:02. | |
collection with serious consequences to who wins. Nobody cares whether | :35:03. | :35:05. | |
you can draw and what animal they represent, they want to know where | :35:06. | :35:09. | |
they stand, and I felt that was frivolous. I come to Britain to | :35:10. | :35:14. | |
watch elections because I learned from here. Your elections are more | :35:15. | :35:19. | |
substantial, more serious, more policy and less about personality | :35:20. | :35:22. | |
and that peace was only about personality. That's partly because | :35:23. | :35:28. | |
Mrs May has decided to make this a presidential election. You can see | :35:29. | :35:37. | |
on the posters it is all Team May. I agree with that, and in her language | :35:38. | :35:45. | |
she says not everyone benefits from a Conservative government, I don't | :35:46. | :35:49. | |
see how using anything Republicans have used in the past. In fact her | :35:50. | :35:53. | |
campaign is more of a centrist Democrats but it is a smart strategy | :35:54. | :35:58. | |
because it pushes Corbyn further to the left. Of course you said Hillary | :35:59. | :36:03. | |
Clinton have won. On election night the polling was so bad in America, | :36:04. | :36:08. | |
the exit polls that were done, the BBC told America she had won. No, I | :36:09. | :36:14. | |
was anchoring the programme that night, I ignored your tweet. The BBC | :36:15. | :36:22. | |
had the same numbers. Yes, but we did not say she had won, I can | :36:23. | :36:27. | |
assure you of that. Because of people like you we thought she had | :36:28. | :36:32. | |
but we didn't broadcast it. That was a smart approach. My point is other | :36:33. | :36:39. | |
than teasing you, maybe there is hope for Jeremy Corbyn. I think you | :36:40. | :36:45. | |
will have one of the lowest turnout in modern history and I think Labour | :36:46. | :36:50. | |
will fall to one of the lowest percentages, not percentage of | :36:51. | :36:53. | |
number of seats they have had, and this will be a matter of | :36:54. | :36:57. | |
soul-searching for both political parties. What you do with a sizeable | :36:58. | :37:03. | |
majority, and she has a responsibility to tell the British | :37:04. | :37:06. | |
people exactly what happens as she moves forward. He and Labour will | :37:07. | :37:12. | |
have to take a look at whether they still represent a significant slice | :37:13. | :37:17. | |
of the British population. Do you see a realignment in British | :37:18. | :37:21. | |
politics taking place? I see a crumbling of the left and yet there | :37:22. | :37:25. | |
is still a significant percentage of the British population that once | :37:26. | :37:29. | |
someone who is centre-left. And they like a lot of Mr Corbyn's policies. | :37:30. | :37:38. | |
I'm listening to Michael foot. I went to school here in the 1980s and | :37:39. | :37:41. | |
I feel like I'm watching the Labour Party of 35 years ago, in a | :37:42. | :37:44. | |
population that wants to focus on the future, not the past. Thank you. | :37:45. | :37:51. | |
It's just gone 11.35, you're watching the Sunday Politics. | :37:52. | :37:53. | |
We say goodbye to viewers in Scotland, who leave us now | :37:54. | :37:55. | |
Hello and welcome to Sunday Politics in Northern Ireland. | :37:56. | :38:05. | |
The Prime Minister has been criticised for not paying enough | :38:06. | :38:08. | |
attention to Northern Ireland during this Brexit-inspired | :38:09. | :38:09. | |
Well, I have been personally engaged. I have contact with both | :38:10. | :38:24. | |
Michelle and Arlene. We'll be hearing more | :38:25. | :38:26. | |
from Theresa May, plus our party leader coverage continues | :38:27. | :38:29. | |
with Naomi Long of Alliance. Where does her party fit | :38:30. | :38:31. | |
into the local picture where orange and green battle-lines have been | :38:32. | :38:33. | |
reinforced with positions And with their thoughts on that | :38:34. | :38:35. | |
and more, my guests of the day are Chris Donnelly and Felicity | :38:36. | :38:39. | |
Huston. The Prime Minister has | :38:40. | :38:42. | |
defended her record of involvement in the on-going Stormont stand-off, | :38:43. | :38:45. | |
and says she's clear about the Brexit deal she wants | :38:46. | :38:47. | |
for Northern Ireland. Theresa May made the comments | :38:48. | :38:49. | |
during a visit to the Balmoral show yesterday, the first time she's come | :38:50. | :38:52. | |
to Northern Ireland since last July. Her decision not to come | :38:53. | :38:55. | |
here in March before triggering Article 50, | :38:56. | :38:57. | |
despite visiting other parts She was asked how she believes | :38:58. | :38:58. | |
the question of the border with the Republic of Ireland | :38:59. | :39:03. | |
is going to be resolved. I am very clear that we want to see | :39:04. | :39:24. | |
no return to the borders of the past, no hard border, and I am clear | :39:25. | :39:31. | |
that we need to see as seamless and frictionless a border as possible. | :39:32. | :39:34. | |
Today I see the importance of the agriculture food industry in | :39:35. | :39:36. | |
Northern Ireland and the world that is done between Northern Ireland and | :39:37. | :39:41. | |
the republic. There is goodwill on all sides. I put it in my Article 50 | :39:42. | :39:47. | |
letter, they have put it in their guidelines, that we want to ensure | :39:48. | :39:51. | |
that we have a resolution of this issue between Northern Ireland and | :39:52. | :39:54. | |
the Republic of Ireland that will be good for both Northern Ireland and | :39:55. | :39:58. | |
the Republic and the whole of the United Kingdom. There is some | :39:59. | :40:02. | |
criticism that you have been two hands off and given that there is a | :40:03. | :40:07. | |
political vacuum at Stormont and Northern Ireland find itself at the | :40:08. | :40:10. | |
forefront of Brexit that you should be more personally engaged. Will you | :40:11. | :40:15. | |
be in the future? I have been personally engaged. I have had | :40:16. | :40:20. | |
contact with both Michelle and Arlene, the leaders of Sinn Fein and | :40:21. | :40:25. | |
the DUP in Northern Ireland in the run-up to Easter when we were | :40:26. | :40:28. | |
particularly looking at the talks and prior to that but what is | :40:29. | :40:31. | |
important if we are going to see what we all want, which is a return | :40:32. | :40:37. | |
to a strong, stable, devolved administration in Northern Ireland | :40:38. | :40:40. | |
is that the parties in Northern Ireland come together and agree, | :40:41. | :40:44. | |
come to an agreement, that can enable that to be re-established. As | :40:45. | :40:50. | |
you know, after the general election, there will be several | :40:51. | :40:53. | |
weeks until the end of June for those parties to come together and | :40:54. | :40:58. | |
to see a resolution. We all want to see devolved administration restored | :40:59. | :40:59. | |
in Northern Ireland. Let's hear from my guests, | :41:00. | :41:01. | |
Chris Donnelly and Felicity Huston. As far as Theresa May 's presence in | :41:02. | :41:10. | |
Northern Ireland at last is concerned, is it a case of better | :41:11. | :41:15. | |
late than never? I am glad to see her here. She is going round the | :41:16. | :41:19. | |
country. She is criticised if she comes and she is criticised if she | :41:20. | :41:23. | |
doesn't come. To be complaining that she is not involved with the talks, | :41:24. | :41:27. | |
we are not supposed to be grown-ups by now who can settle our own | :41:28. | :41:32. | |
devolved issues? I don't know if it would have made any difference if | :41:33. | :41:36. | |
she had come here. People would have shouted and screamed. It looked as | :41:37. | :41:40. | |
if he didn't care about the big issues. I don't know if it was that. | :41:41. | :41:45. | |
I think that there were places that it was more useful for it HER to | :41:46. | :41:52. | |
appear. I wish we would have our own talks and solve our own problems and | :41:53. | :41:56. | |
not expect the British, the Irish and the Americans to come in. I | :41:57. | :42:01. | |
think from Theresa May 's perspective she has more pressing | :42:02. | :42:07. | |
concerns. I think the last Prime Minister was sacked by Brexit and | :42:08. | :42:10. | |
she is well aware that her political legacy will be defined by how she | :42:11. | :42:14. | |
handles these negotiations. The problem with the pitch is that | :42:15. | :42:19. | |
Michelle come to some sort -- Michelle and Arlene can do source of | :42:20. | :42:23. | |
an agreement, they are a central player in those issues, legacy | :42:24. | :42:30. | |
issues, where both James Brokenshire around the West insurer with the | :42:31. | :42:35. | |
Westminster committee have weighed in, that is an important thing that | :42:36. | :42:40. | |
needs to be resolved with the British and the agreement on the | :42:41. | :42:46. | |
language act. That is one of the outstanding areas. I don't think she | :42:47. | :42:50. | |
can afford to stand aloof because we are not really going to get the | :42:51. | :42:52. | |
progress unless the British government are centrally involved. | :42:53. | :42:54. | |
Alliance had its best ever Assembly election result last month | :42:55. | :42:58. | |
increasing its first preference and share of the vote. | :42:59. | :43:00. | |
But a general election is a very different ball game, | :43:01. | :43:02. | |
so can the party translate its recent success into | :43:03. | :43:04. | |
Joining me is party leader, Naomi Long. | :43:05. | :43:14. | |
Well, can you? I believe we can. I think it is not just the view of the | :43:15. | :43:24. | |
party but actually many commentators have recognised that is the case. I | :43:25. | :43:28. | |
think there are real opportunities, not just for us in those seats but | :43:29. | :43:33. | |
also to grow our vote in other seats and to send a very strong message to | :43:34. | :43:37. | |
other parties who have failed to get devolution bag up and running that | :43:38. | :43:40. | |
that is what people want to see as a priority after this election because | :43:41. | :43:46. | |
come the 8th of June, we need to go back into a room together and get | :43:47. | :43:50. | |
devolution restored. It is absolutely crucial for the future of | :43:51. | :43:54. | |
Northern Ireland. We saw the Prime Minister in Northern Ireland that | :43:55. | :43:57. | |
last during this election campaign, talking about some of the issues | :43:58. | :44:01. | |
that are thrown up by the Brexit debate. In the absence of a devolved | :44:02. | :44:06. | |
setup, who do you think can best serve the interest of Northern | :44:07. | :44:10. | |
Ireland on the issue of Brexit? Is it Theresa May and the UK Government | :44:11. | :44:15. | |
orders the Taoiseach in Northern Ireland would grow Ireland have a | :44:16. | :44:22. | |
role? I have a role. She is going to be leading the negotiations from the | :44:23. | :44:27. | |
UK said -- I think they both have a role. I have to say, to date, | :44:28. | :44:32. | |
without much success in terms of charming the people that she needs | :44:33. | :44:35. | |
to work with but how she handles that will be critical to Northern | :44:36. | :44:38. | |
Ireland 's future. I don't believe that is the only person that we need | :44:39. | :44:43. | |
to be dealing with. We need to be speaking to the Taoiseach because | :44:44. | :44:47. | |
they have a role along the border on how we deal with the sensitive | :44:48. | :44:51. | |
issues that affect the peace process and arrangements on an island bases | :44:52. | :44:54. | |
as well as the kind of East-West arrangements that are part of the | :44:55. | :44:57. | |
Good Friday agreement. Both will be involved but there are are also 26 | :44:58. | :45:03. | |
other EU states out there who will also have to reach a decision on the | :45:04. | :45:07. | |
future of Northern Ireland and it is important we do not lose sight of | :45:08. | :45:12. | |
them and ensure that they understand the sensitivities for Northern | :45:13. | :45:16. | |
Ireland. London and Dublin both have roles. You told me last October, | :45:17. | :45:21. | |
there is a real opportunity for us to have two voices at the table, one | :45:22. | :45:25. | |
on the inside of Europe and one speaking for us in these | :45:26. | :45:29. | |
negotiations in the British government. Who would choose one | :45:30. | :45:33. | |
voice-over to when things are so crucial? Do you stand by that? | :45:34. | :45:40. | |
Absolutely. It would be madness for us to alienate the voice of the | :45:41. | :45:42. | |
Irish government in this because they will be in the negotiations | :45:43. | :45:47. | |
with 26 other EU states. They have many of the same concerns that we | :45:48. | :45:51. | |
have when it comes to the border and cross-border trade and cooperation | :45:52. | :45:53. | |
and all those other things. It would be insane for us not to find | :45:54. | :45:57. | |
ourselves a way of dealing with them which is why we have been involved | :45:58. | :46:01. | |
in the dialogue on Brexit and we will continue to do that. There | :46:02. | :46:07. | |
could be a Unionist disposition who could be tempted to vote for | :46:08. | :46:10. | |
Alliance who would agree with Jim Nicholson when he says Brussels | :46:11. | :46:15. | |
should keep out of this issue. Northern Ireland can stick up for | :46:16. | :46:18. | |
itself. Northern Ireland cannot stand up for itself because we don't | :46:19. | :46:22. | |
have a voice at the negotiating table saw this negotiation will take | :46:23. | :46:26. | |
place between London and the other 27 states. One of which happens to | :46:27. | :46:30. | |
be Dublin which has a vested interest in seeing a good result for | :46:31. | :46:36. | |
Northern Ireland. I think it is a practical... I think it is quite a | :46:37. | :46:39. | |
significant part of the 26, given that it is going to be directly | :46:40. | :46:43. | |
impacted and it is one of the most pro-European countries in Europe. It | :46:44. | :46:47. | |
will not want to annoy the Irish and drive them out either. I think it | :46:48. | :46:52. | |
would be mad for anyone and I don't think it's about being a Unionist or | :46:53. | :46:56. | |
a nationalist, it is about being pragmatic and practical in response | :46:57. | :46:58. | |
to what I think are practical issues that we are going to have to face. | :46:59. | :47:03. | |
It is interesting you should take that line. The issue for Alliance is | :47:04. | :47:07. | |
your candidates in this election campaign could well become piggy in | :47:08. | :47:11. | |
the middle between pro-Brexit Unionist candidates and Andy Brexit | :47:12. | :47:17. | |
candidates. In a first past the post system, your supporters might choose | :47:18. | :47:21. | |
to support you. We hear this in every election, we are used to | :47:22. | :47:24. | |
hearing that. We're not in the middle. We are leading from the | :47:25. | :47:27. | |
front in terms of what we want to do. Part of the reason people are | :47:28. | :47:32. | |
coming to Alliance is because they are wary of increasingly | :47:33. | :47:35. | |
nationalist, inward looking politics, not just in Northern | :47:36. | :47:38. | |
Ireland but actually globally, in terms of how people are responding | :47:39. | :47:41. | |
to the challenges that we face and I think that what they want to see is | :47:42. | :47:46. | |
a recognition of the importance of interdependence, a recognition of | :47:47. | :47:50. | |
the importance of cooperation and a recognition that regardless of | :47:51. | :47:54. | |
Brexit, our future will continue to be entwined with Europe, whether we | :47:55. | :47:59. | |
like that or not. What we need to do, Mark, is to develop positive | :48:00. | :48:04. | |
relationships with Europe, regardless of Brexit, so that we can | :48:05. | :48:07. | |
continue to function and we can continue to make a success of | :48:08. | :48:11. | |
Northern Ireland. When Arlene Foster says this is about securing Northern | :48:12. | :48:15. | |
Ireland 's place in the union, she is wrong? Of course she is wrong. If | :48:16. | :48:20. | |
it was about that, it would be a referendum on the border. It is not | :48:21. | :48:23. | |
a referendum on the border. It is an election to decide who will | :48:24. | :48:27. | |
represent constituencies best at Westminster and part of that will be | :48:28. | :48:31. | |
about their position with regards to Brexit, part of that will be about | :48:32. | :48:35. | |
their position with regards to social policy and economic policy | :48:36. | :48:37. | |
and part of that will be about the work that they do on the ground and | :48:38. | :48:42. | |
I think the public recognise that. We hear every election now in | :48:43. | :48:47. | |
Northern Ireland as if it is going to make a difference to the border | :48:48. | :48:49. | |
and the border has not moved one inch since 1998, nor will it as a | :48:50. | :48:54. | |
result of this election. What will happen as a result of this election | :48:55. | :48:59. | |
is that we will either have 18 MPs over in Westminster speaking with a | :49:00. | :49:03. | |
common voice in favour of what is best for Northern Ireland or we want | :49:04. | :49:06. | |
and that is a choice that the Northern Ireland Republic PUBLIC are | :49:07. | :49:12. | |
well aware that they need to make. We like to see a second referendum | :49:13. | :49:20. | |
on Brexit? No, I don't want to see a second referendum but I do want to | :49:21. | :49:24. | |
see the outcome of the negotiations put to a referendum because people | :49:25. | :49:28. | |
voted for a principle that we would vote to leave the EU. It was unclear | :49:29. | :49:32. | |
as a result of that campaign which bits we would completely leave. | :49:33. | :49:35. | |
Would leave the customs union, the single market, would we be the | :49:36. | :49:41. | |
Switzerland of Ireland? Would we be like Norway? There were all those | :49:42. | :49:44. | |
debates and they were never answered. I think it is right and | :49:45. | :49:48. | |
proper that having made a decision about the direction that we have to | :49:49. | :49:51. | |
take that we then put the final arrangements to the public so they | :49:52. | :49:54. | |
can decide whether that meets what they actually wanted in terms of | :49:55. | :49:58. | |
their expectations. Just to come back to Northern Ireland politics. | :49:59. | :50:09. | |
Is devolution your number one priority, getting the message | :50:10. | :50:14. | |
across? First of all we want to stand and say that we are wanting | :50:15. | :50:17. | |
that second referendum when it comes to the issue of the deal that we get | :50:18. | :50:22. | |
in Northern Ireland. We want to send strong voices to Westminster to make | :50:23. | :50:27. | |
it clear that we do need a special deal for Northern Ireland and the | :50:28. | :50:30. | |
second issue was about devolution and sending a strong message to the | :50:31. | :50:34. | |
parties that had been blocking the restoration of devolution that we | :50:35. | :50:37. | |
want to see that restored and people can vote for the same thing they | :50:38. | :50:41. | |
voted for last time, they can give parties the same mandate they gave | :50:42. | :50:45. | |
before and what they will get is a repeat of what he had in the past. | :50:46. | :50:49. | |
They need to send a message by voting for parties who are committed | :50:50. | :50:52. | |
to making devolution work and that will send the strongest possible | :50:53. | :50:55. | |
message unequivocally to those entering the talks on the 9th of | :50:56. | :51:04. | |
June. If you win in your constituency and you are returned as | :51:05. | :51:08. | |
an MP, who is going to lead your party delegation in those talks? You | :51:09. | :51:13. | |
will have a focus elsewhere. Can you continue if you are an MP to be the | :51:14. | :51:18. | |
party leader? Of course I can and of course I can continue to lead the | :51:19. | :51:21. | |
delegation. If you look at what happened in Stormont in the talks | :51:22. | :51:27. | |
before, Mark Durkan was heavily involved Iniestia P delegation. We | :51:28. | :51:33. | |
had Gerry Adams there. There is absolutely no reason... When I was | :51:34. | :51:42. | |
an MP, I was our chief negotiator. I was our chief negotiator in the | :51:43. | :51:44. | |
house and at no point did anybody say I was not doing a good job as an | :51:45. | :51:50. | |
MP. You would have to give up yours would not be your seat in Stormont? | :51:51. | :51:59. | |
That is automatic. MPs are required in Westminster for a large | :52:00. | :52:03. | |
proportion of the week to vote, scrutinise and provide a voice for | :52:04. | :52:06. | |
constituents. No person can be in two places at once. What I have said | :52:07. | :52:11. | |
is that is absolutely correct and that is why we supported net double | :52:12. | :52:16. | |
jogging. Voluntarily. I stood down from my position in the semi when I | :52:17. | :52:21. | |
was last in Westminster and it is now law that people have to but what | :52:22. | :52:26. | |
I am saying is... Do you imagine that our MPs go to Westminster and | :52:27. | :52:30. | |
that they stay there and they do not remain connected with issues | :52:31. | :52:33. | |
affecting their constituents? What a nonsense that would be. It is | :52:34. | :52:39. | |
another thing being an MP and a party leader. If you have a strong | :52:40. | :52:45. | |
coherent party behind you and an excellent deputy leader, there is | :52:46. | :52:48. | |
absolutely no conflict whatsoever. The reality is that there are some | :52:49. | :52:51. | |
of the parties that struggled with this who could not be led from | :52:52. | :52:54. | |
anywhere. That is their difficulty and we don't have those problems in | :52:55. | :52:56. | |
Alliance. Let's hear what Felicity | :52:57. | :52:59. | |
and Chris make of that, Naomi Long did not likely phrase | :53:00. | :53:13. | |
piggy in the middle in terms of being squeezed by the power blocs | :53:14. | :53:17. | |
but is it a fair point to make? Historically it was the case to | :53:18. | :53:23. | |
make. The first past the post feature meant that the Nationalists | :53:24. | :53:30. | |
and the Unionists faced off. That is likely to be even more of an issue | :53:31. | :53:33. | |
with Brexit dominating this campaign. It is but there are a | :53:34. | :53:39. | |
number of caveats I were add to that. They had their best ever | :53:40. | :53:48. | |
election in March. Those 72,000 people voted for Alliance | :53:49. | :53:50. | |
candidates. They are now at the stage where in Naomi Long, they are | :53:51. | :53:55. | |
one of the two favourite candidates in east Belfast and she will benefit | :53:56. | :53:59. | |
from the Westminster first past the post. In other constituencies where | :54:00. | :54:03. | |
they realise... They have decided to set them out. McAllister in north | :54:04. | :54:11. | |
Belfast, that is going to lend more credibility to the notion that it is | :54:12. | :54:16. | |
a straight battle between John Finnigan and Nigel Dodds. Which will | :54:17. | :54:21. | |
be an interesting battle. Felicity, what do you make of the idea | :54:22. | :54:25. | |
underscored again by Naomi Long that Dublin has an important part to play | :54:26. | :54:28. | |
in those discussions about how exactly Brexit happens? I think that | :54:29. | :54:34. | |
is the case. Dublin wants no hard border, the UK wants no hard border. | :54:35. | :54:41. | |
So that is probably what is going to happen. Are you happy for the Dublin | :54:42. | :54:46. | |
administration to speak on behalf of you question mark I don't see them | :54:47. | :54:52. | |
doing that. I see them... They are not talk about the Northern Island | :54:53. | :54:57. | |
people. There are people in Northern Ireland to think that is the case. | :54:58. | :55:03. | |
The Taoiseach is voted in by people of the Irish Republic. That is his | :55:04. | :55:11. | |
job. That is fine. Everybody is working towards the same thing. I | :55:12. | :55:13. | |
don't really see a big problem with that one. | :55:14. | :55:14. | |
Let's take a look back at the week in 60 seconds with Gareth Gordon. | :55:15. | :55:26. | |
The number of general election candidate in Northern Ireland is | :55:27. | :55:35. | |
down but more women are standing. The DUP and Ulster Unionist Party | :55:36. | :55:39. | |
stepping aside for each other in two key constituencies. Whilst there is | :55:40. | :55:43. | |
no formal pact, those two very significant moves I think will help | :55:44. | :55:49. | |
the unionist people to send to unionist MPs back. If the DUP made a | :55:50. | :55:53. | |
significant move on the Irish Sandwich, what would Sinn Fein be | :55:54. | :55:57. | |
prepared to do over Ulster Scots? I am quite open for doing something if | :55:58. | :56:01. | |
there is a therefore it. I said that from day one. The EU chief | :56:02. | :56:06. | |
negotiator on Brexit visited Dublin and warned it will have | :56:07. | :56:11. | |
consequences. Some controls are part of border management. To protect the | :56:12. | :56:17. | |
single market. Something the Taoiseach seems all too aware of. We | :56:18. | :56:22. | |
know how corrugated and seriously issues are for Europe as a whole and | :56:23. | :56:23. | |
for Ireland. Gareth Gordon there, now tributes | :56:24. | :56:31. | |
from across the political spectrum are being paid to Brendan Duddy, | :56:32. | :56:33. | |
widely credited as an important The Londonderry business man | :56:34. | :56:36. | |
died at the age of 80 Mitchel McLaughlin is | :56:37. | :56:40. | |
in our studio in Derry. Thanks very much indeed for being | :56:41. | :56:56. | |
with us today. There are many people who invested a great deal of their | :56:57. | :56:59. | |
time and effort into the peace process but what is interesting | :57:00. | :57:03. | |
about Brendan Duddy is he did that over such a long period of time and | :57:04. | :57:06. | |
with so little public recognition for his efforts. Good morning, Mark. | :57:07. | :57:12. | |
Could I also extend my sympathies to the wider family. Brendan Duddy was | :57:13. | :57:19. | |
a friend and acquaintance over a 50 year period, so I had a lot of | :57:20. | :57:23. | |
respect for him and I wasn't the least bit surprised by his modesty | :57:24. | :57:28. | |
and reticence about going into the details of his involvement in the | :57:29. | :57:32. | |
peace process, which was undoubtedly very significant and very helpful. | :57:33. | :57:36. | |
When did you first become aware that Brendan Duddy was acting as a | :57:37. | :57:38. | |
middleman between the British government and the Republican | :57:39. | :57:44. | |
leadership? In the early days of the process, Sinn Fein had already | :57:45. | :57:48. | |
designated Martin McGuinness as a single point of contact and | :57:49. | :57:53. | |
negotiator and those circumstances, Brendan Duddy was acting as a | :57:54. | :57:59. | |
contact person. Eventually I became of his -- aware of his involvement | :58:00. | :58:04. | |
where he was seeking without success to contact to conduct Martin | :58:05. | :58:07. | |
McGuinness and he used me as a contact back to Martin. Roughly when | :58:08. | :58:12. | |
was that? What period are we talking about? The early 90s and throughout | :58:13. | :58:19. | |
that period. He had been involved for 20 years before that. He was | :58:20. | :58:24. | |
involved in the 70s, trying to persuade the IRA to remove their | :58:25. | :58:28. | |
guns. He was a contact between Margaret Thatcher and the IRA. I was | :58:29. | :58:36. | |
for instance aware of the messages that were delivered prior to the | :58:37. | :58:48. | |
rights march on bloody Sunday. That was contradicted for many years by | :58:49. | :58:52. | |
the British government. Brendan 's role in that particular exchange | :58:53. | :58:58. | |
where he was working with the most senior RUC officer at the time, and | :58:59. | :59:03. | |
other very decent and Bravo man, is the background to that situation. I | :59:04. | :59:13. | |
was unaware of it for many years. -- honourable man. We know he used his | :59:14. | :59:21. | |
own front room in his own home for a venue for discussions between Martin | :59:22. | :59:24. | |
McGuinness and representatives of the predicament. For many people, | :59:25. | :59:26. | |
that is above and beyond the call of duty. It was a remarkable commitment | :59:27. | :59:31. | |
and it was not a conference or a political meeting or a discussion | :59:32. | :59:35. | |
that Brendan Duddy did not contribute to, either from the floor | :59:36. | :59:40. | |
or from the platform. He had a profile as one of the most prominent | :59:41. | :59:45. | |
businessmen in the town. He also demonstrated his commitment to | :59:46. | :59:49. | |
building understandings and exchanges across the political | :59:50. | :59:51. | |
divisions that exist and he was quite clear in his own politics in | :59:52. | :59:58. | |
later years declared himself a Republican. He wished to see a | :59:59. | :00:02. | |
united Ireland. He was the person I first heard you ring the statement | :00:03. | :00:10. | |
that we should begin in the Irish back to the Irish. It is important | :00:11. | :00:17. | |
that his contribution should be recognised that the time of his | :00:18. | :00:18. | |
passing. Good to talk to you. Thanks, Mitchel McLaughlin, | :00:19. | :00:21. | |
a final thought from Chris. We really should be marking the | :00:22. | :00:32. | |
passing of Brendan Duddy on a programme like this. Yes, I think | :00:33. | :00:38. | |
so. He was somebody will never betrayed a dress. He was defined by | :00:39. | :00:42. | |
his honesty and that is important given the role he was to fulfil for | :00:43. | :00:46. | |
decades. I think he was clearly somebody who clearly believed in | :00:47. | :00:54. | |
dialogue to ease tensions. And he was one of those people who planted | :00:55. | :00:57. | |
dialogue to ease tensions. And he Tories are saying. It is a very | :00:58. | :00:57. | |
was one of those people who planted the | :00:58. | :00:58. | |
Tories are saying. It is a very emotive | :00:59. | :00:58. | |
Tories are saying. It is a very the seeds | :00:59. | :00:58. | |
Tories are saying. It is a very emotive subject | :00:59. | :00:58. | |
Tories are saying. It is a very the seeds of the | :00:59. | :00:58. | |
Tories are saying. It is a very emotive subject and we | :00:59. | :00:58. | |
Tories are saying. It is a very the seeds of the piece | :00:59. | :00:58. | |
Tories are saying. It is a very emotive subject and we have | :00:59. | :00:58. | |
Tories are saying. It is a very the seeds of the piece that | :00:59. | :00:59. | |
Tories are saying. It is a very emotive subject and we have run | :01:00. | :00:59. | |
Tories are saying. It is a very the seeds of the piece that was | :01:00. | :00:59. | |
Tories are saying. It is a very emotive subject and we have run out | :01:00. | :00:59. | |
Tories are saying. It is a very the seeds of the piece that was to | :01:00. | :00:59. | |
emotive subject and we have run out of time. | :01:00. | :00:59. | |
the seeds of the piece that was to come. | :01:00. | :01:00. | |
On Thursday nominations closed in the 650 parliamentary | :01:01. | :01:11. | |
seats across the country, so now we know exactly who's | :01:12. | :01:13. | |
We've been analysing the parties' candidates to find out | :01:14. | :01:20. | |
what they might tell us about the make-up of the House | :01:21. | :01:22. | |
Well, we know Theresa May is committed to delivering Brexit and | :01:23. | :01:27. | |
analysis of Conservative candidates has shown that | :01:28. | :01:32. | |
in their top 100 target seats, 37 candidates supported leave | :01:33. | :01:35. | |
during last year's referendum campaign | :01:36. | :01:43. | |
and 20 supported remain; 43 have not made public | :01:44. | :01:45. | |
In the last parliament, the vast majority of Labour MPs | :01:46. | :01:51. | |
were hostile to Jeremy Corbyn so how supportive are Labour | :01:52. | :01:53. | |
Well, of 50 of Labour's top 100 target seats | :01:54. | :02:00. | |
17 candidates have expressed support for Mr Corbyn. | :02:01. | :02:02. | |
20 candidates supported Owen Smith in last year's leadership contest | :02:03. | :02:07. | |
or have expressed anti-Corbyn sentiment, and | :02:08. | :02:11. | |
If they won those, the Labour benches would be | :02:12. | :02:17. | |
marginally more sympathetic to Mr Corbyn than they are now. | :02:18. | :02:19. | |
What do the figures tell us about where the other | :02:20. | :02:21. | |
Well, the Lib Dems have decided not to stand against the Greens | :02:22. | :02:25. | |
in Brighton Pavilion, and are fielding 629 | :02:26. | :02:27. | |
candidates this year - that's two fewer than 2015. | :02:28. | :02:30. | |
The number of Ukip candidates has fallen dramatically. | :02:31. | :02:34. | |
They are standing in 247 fewer constituencies than 2015, | :02:35. | :02:40. | |
throwing their support behind solidly pro-Brexit Tories | :02:41. | :02:42. | |
in some areas such as Lewes and Norfolk North. | :02:43. | :02:46. | |
The Greens are fielding 103 fewer candidates | :02:47. | :02:50. | |
than at the last election, standing down to help | :02:51. | :03:01. | |
other progressive candidates in some places. | :03:02. | :03:07. | |
The most liking statistic is the demise in Ukip candidates, is this | :03:08. | :03:19. | |
their swansong? And I think so. It is remarkable how few Ukip | :03:20. | :03:26. | |
candidates are standing. It is hard to see they will suddenly revive in | :03:27. | :03:30. | |
the next couple of years. I think this is probably the end. Frank | :03:31. | :03:39. | |
Luntz mentioned the fragmentation of the left was a feature of this | :03:40. | :03:44. | |
election, but also there is the consolidation of the right, and if | :03:45. | :03:46. | |
you take the things together that could explain why the polls are | :03:47. | :03:52. | |
where they are. Absolutely, that's precisely what happened at the start | :03:53. | :03:57. | |
of the 1980s, the right was incredibly united and that's when we | :03:58. | :04:02. | |
started talking about majorities of over 100 or so. No matter what the | :04:03. | :04:09. | |
size of Theresa May's majority, it will be the total collapse of Ukip, | :04:10. | :04:13. | |
but not just because we are now leaving the EU and that was their | :04:14. | :04:19. | |
only reason for being, but a whole lot of people voted for Ukip because | :04:20. | :04:23. | |
they felt the Tories were no longer listening. Theresa May has given the | :04:24. | :04:31. | |
impression that she is listening, and that is the biggest possible | :04:32. | :04:34. | |
thing that could happen to the Tory vote. Fragmentation of the left, | :04:35. | :04:42. | |
consolidation of the right? It's one of the lessons that is never learnt, | :04:43. | :04:48. | |
it happened in the 1980s, it doesn't take much for the whole thing to | :04:49. | :04:53. | |
fracture so now you have on the centre-left the SNP, the Labour | :04:54. | :04:59. | |
Party, the Greens, the Liberal Democrats all competing for the same | :05:00. | :05:04. | |
votes and when you have, fleetingly perhaps, large numbers coalescing on | :05:05. | :05:08. | |
the right in one party, there is only going to be one outcome. It | :05:09. | :05:13. | |
happens regularly. It doesn't mean the Tories haven't got their own | :05:14. | :05:19. | |
fragility. Two years ago, David Cameron and George Osborne the | :05:20. | :05:23. | |
dominant figures, neither are in Parliament now which is a symptom of | :05:24. | :05:27. | |
the fragility this election is disguising. Mrs May's position in a | :05:28. | :05:33. | |
way reminds me of Mrs Thatcher in the 1980s, I won't be outflanked on | :05:34. | :05:38. | |
the right, Nicolas Sarkozy in France, I won't be outflanked on the | :05:39. | :05:42. | |
right, so the National Front didn't get through either timed he ran to | :05:43. | :05:45. | |
the second round on like this time, and now Mrs May on Brexit won't be | :05:46. | :05:52. | |
outflanked Iver and as a result has seen off right flank. And also she | :05:53. | :05:56. | |
is looking to the left as well with some of the state interventions. | :05:57. | :05:59. | |
What was interesting about the analysis you showed a few minutes | :06:00. | :06:03. | |
ago was the number of Tory candidates who have apparently not | :06:04. | :06:08. | |
declared which way they voted in the referendum, and you would have | :06:09. | :06:12. | |
thought if this election was all about Brexit, as some would claim, | :06:13. | :06:16. | |
that would become an unsustainable position, and actually more it's | :06:17. | :06:21. | |
about leadership. But the point that I'm now hearing from a number of | :06:22. | :06:26. | |
Labour candidates that they are seeing Tory leaflets that don't even | :06:27. | :06:32. | |
have the Tory candidate's name on them, it is just about Theresa May. | :06:33. | :06:37. | |
I am glad they are keeping to the law because by law they have to put | :06:38. | :06:42. | |
it on. It has been harder for some of the smaller parties too because | :06:43. | :06:48. | |
of the speed of the election being called. We have the manifesto is | :06:49. | :06:54. | |
coming out this week. I think Labour Forshaw on Tuesday, we are not yet | :06:55. | :06:58. | |
sure when the Tories will bring bears out. I suggest one thing, it | :06:59. | :07:02. | |
will at least for people like me bring an end to the question you | :07:03. | :07:10. | |
will have to wait for the manifesto. And Rebecca Long baby will never | :07:11. | :07:13. | |
have that excuse again, isn't it wonderful! She is not the only one. | :07:14. | :07:23. | |
When you are trying to take the north and Midlands from Labour, I | :07:24. | :07:29. | |
would go to one or the other. For me, I can barely hold back my | :07:30. | :07:34. | |
excitement over the Tory manifesto. This will be, I think, the most | :07:35. | :07:37. | |
important day for the British government for the next five years. | :07:38. | :07:46. | |
That wasn't irony there? You actually meant that? I'm not even | :07:47. | :07:51. | |
being cynical at all on Sunday Politics! This is a huge day and | :07:52. | :07:58. | |
it's because I think we will see... I don't think Mrs May will play it | :07:59. | :08:02. | |
safe and I don't think we will get the broadbrush stuff that she might | :08:03. | :08:08. | |
be advised to do. I think she will lay out precisely what you want to | :08:09. | :08:12. | |
do over the next five years and take some big risks. Then finally after a | :08:13. | :08:17. | |
year of this guessing and theorising, we will finally work out | :08:18. | :08:21. | |
what Mrs May is all about. She will say she doesn't want the next | :08:22. | :08:24. | |
parliament to be all about Brexit, though she knows that's the next | :08:25. | :08:28. | |
important thing she has to deliver in some way, so she gets a mandate | :08:29. | :08:32. | |
for that if the polls are right but she | :08:33. | :08:43. | |
does have very different ideas from Mr Cameron about how to run a | :08:44. | :08:47. | |
country. She will I assume one to mandate for what these different | :08:48. | :08:49. | |
ideas are. Otherwise there is no point in holding an early election. | :08:50. | :08:52. | |
You will get a majority, but if you get a mandate to carry on | :08:53. | :08:56. | |
implementing the Cameron and Osborne manifesto it would be utterly | :08:57. | :08:59. | |
pointless. I agree, it is the pivotal event of the election and it | :09:00. | :09:02. | |
will be interesting to see the degree to which she expands on the | :09:03. | :09:06. | |
line which interests me about its time to look at the good that | :09:07. | :09:11. | |
government can do. Because in a way this moves the debate on in UK | :09:12. | :09:18. | |
politics from, from 97 the Blair Brown governments were insecure | :09:19. | :09:21. | |
about arguing about the role of government. Cameron Osborne | :09:22. | :09:26. | |
government similarly so, so here you have a Labour Party talking about | :09:27. | :09:30. | |
the role of government and the state, and Tory leader apparently | :09:31. | :09:34. | |
doing so was well. I think that will be really interesting to see whether | :09:35. | :09:38. | |
it is fleshed out in any significant way. And it is not a natural Tory | :09:39. | :09:43. | |
message. Harold Macmillan talked about the role of the state, Ted | :09:44. | :09:51. | |
Heath Mark two was pretty big on the state, the industrial policy and so | :09:52. | :09:56. | |
on, and even if it is not thought to be that Tory, does she get away with | :09:57. | :10:00. | |
it because she deliver such a big victory if that's what she does | :10:01. | :10:05. | |
deliver? Just inject a little note of scepticism, I wonder how much of | :10:06. | :10:11. | |
this is authentically Theresa May. I was interested to and talk to | :10:12. | :10:19. | |
someone who used to sit in cabinet meetings during which Theresa May | :10:20. | :10:22. | |
never expressed an opinion on anything outside the Home Office | :10:23. | :10:25. | |
briefs. Other ministers were roving all over their colleagues' briefs. | :10:26. | :10:34. | |
So where are the ideas coming from? I think we can point to Nick | :10:35. | :10:41. | |
Timothy. One of her closest advisers in Downing Street. It will be | :10:42. | :10:46. | |
interesting to see how that evolves. On Thursday I think we will all be | :10:47. | :10:52. | |
talking about something called Urdington Toryism. Urdington is the | :10:53. | :11:02. | |
suburb of Birmingham where Nick Timothy comes from, who is very much | :11:03. | :11:07. | |
Theresa May's policy brain and leading inspiration. Urdington | :11:08. | :11:12. | |
Toryism is about connecting the party with traditional working class | :11:13. | :11:17. | |
voters, and their belief to do that is not just taking away government | :11:18. | :11:21. | |
out of their lives but showing them that government can actually help | :11:22. | :11:25. | |
their lives. It can be a force for good to rebuild the trust. A lot of | :11:26. | :11:37. | |
what Mrs May talks about is all... It is talk and then a lot of it | :11:38. | :11:41. | |
suddenly goes by the wayside. What happened to worker directors on the | :11:42. | :11:50. | |
boards. It is designed to appeal to that constituency and then nothing | :11:51. | :11:54. | |
happens. She had an excuse before in the sense that it wasn't in the 2015 | :11:55. | :11:59. | |
manifesto and she had a small majority so therefore she arguably | :12:00. | :12:02. | |
had to water down some of the stuff for example in her Tory conference | :12:03. | :12:08. | |
speech, which had a lot of this active government material in it. If | :12:09. | :12:12. | |
she puts it in the manifesto, it is a sign she plans to do it and will | :12:13. | :12:17. | |
have no excuse if she then gets nervous afterwards because it will | :12:18. | :12:21. | |
be in there. If it wasn't for Brexit, this great overwhelming | :12:22. | :12:26. | |
issue, I think this election will be seen as quite a significant | :12:27. | :12:29. | |
development in terms of an argument around the role of government, | :12:30. | :12:34. | |
much-needed. But Brexit unfortunately overshadows it all. As | :12:35. | :12:39. | |
much as we like our arguments over the role of government we will hear | :12:40. | :12:43. | |
strong and stable, stable and strong ad nauseam, aren't we? Absolutely, | :12:44. | :12:51. | |
and we heard the same old lines from the Labour Party as well so they are | :12:52. | :12:57. | |
all at it. It will be a fascinating week, stop talking it down! Thanks | :12:58. | :13:01. | |
to our panel. The Daily Politics will be | :13:02. | :13:03. | |
back on BBC Two at noon I'll be back here at the same time | :13:04. | :13:06. | |
on BBC One next Sunday. Remember - if it's Sunday, | :13:07. | :13:10. | |
it's the Sunday Politics. | :13:11. | :13:14. |