17/02/2013 Sunday Politics Northern Ireland

Coming up: A defining week for the Ulster unionist as they back a

unity candidate but lose two senior MLAs. We will hear from the party

Apology for the loss of subtitles for 2126 seconds

Hello and welcome to Sunday Politics in Northern Ireland. To

lose one MLA may be regarded as a misfortune, but to lose two within

two days looks like carelessness. What does the future hold for the

Ulster Unionists? I will be talking to Mike Nesbitt about the week that

shook his party. Westminster agrees to keep political donations a

secret here but have MPs missed a chance for more open politics? And

with their thoughts on all those issues and more, I am joined by

Sheila Davidson and Steven McCaffery.

If we have to shrink to grow we will, the words of the Ulster

Unionist leader, Mike Nesbitt, back in December. And at the end of this

week his party lost two senior members, its former deputy leader,

John McCallister, and the Basil McCrea. Both cited the unveiling of

a united unionist candidate in Mid- Ulster as the tipping point. So

where does that double departure leave the party now? Mike Nesbitt

is with me. Your critics might say the first part of that strategy of

shrinking to grow is going very well. It does look like that,

doesn't it? And it was an inevitability. It was inevitable

that these two gentlemen would leave. It was a pity it was not on

the top of the news agenda. The seniors make a very good decision

in terms of the violation. When there is a political election, what

do I want? I want an all-star Unionist to win the seat. -- All

Star Yunus wrist. I would prefer some sort of Unionist to win. It

would maximise those chances. You have to put up a single candidate.

The decision was made by the Association. They unanimously

backed Nigel. That was a political decision. You have said that the

chance of winning the seat is pretty slim. But there is a

possibility. I resent people saying that this is a sectarian headcount,

as if a Catholic wouldn't possibly vote for Nigel. A of idea what they

get has to be an emotional debate and I am not sure it will be. I

would say to Nigel that he does not have the right to stand or mention

the fact that his father were murdered. There were many Catholics

and Protestants who would not mind someone speaking up for them.

Elliott, your predecessor as leader, said on Friday, a lot of what Basil

said I can agree with. It is clearly not about policy. John,

after the leadership election, was offered the opportunity to bring

foreheads a think tank. He was talking about bringing in people

from different parties and I was concerned with all of this. --

content with all of this. They did not meet once and the last 11

months. Bylaw has said that you did not communicate with him. -- Basil.

One of the first things I did after I was elected was spent 90p ornate

door jamb. My door is always open. -- ornate door jamb. The last and

we did it, 14 or 15 turned up. Who did not? Basil. In his no-holds

barred letter of resignation on Thursday, John McCallister claimed

you have abandoned pluralist and progressive pro-Union politics for

a backward-looking, insular politics. He says you're determined

to act in concert with the DUP and you've opted to become Peter

Robinson's junior partner. How do you respond to that critique?

is his opinion and he is wrong. doesn't think he is wrong. The fact

that he has left the party is probably good news. So you welcome

the fact that he has gone? People are saying that I am embattled and

I am liberated today. A It Was the Week That shook the Ulster Unionist

Party. You lost five leading figures in the party. At we will be

stronger. -- and we will be stronger. We have a man shot. For -

- we have a man trough. Country's first and politics second. We need

to present a united front to the electorate and that was never going

to happen. Goodbye and good riddance as far as you are

concerned? Just goodbye. At one point, David my Mario said that

there were five MLAs he were going to jump ship. He said that five and

always were going to jump ship and nobody jumped ship. Nobody has come

to me to say that they are unhappy. We had the young Unionist

conference recently. We had a business breakfast. I do not think

we got the responses that we wanted. Why it does that tell you? We are

experiencing with different things. It is not a big deal. We are is the

evidence of your progress of policies on flags and berates and

things that separate the Ulster Unionist Party from the DUP.

way to do it and bring it forward is things like MLA away-days. The

last time the executive Matt, John and basil turned up, and they did

not support the position of the councillors unanimously, and then

they came up with a policy from the teen years ago and said it was

policy. Once the executive may that scission on 8th December 1920 top,

that was policy. There is a difference between cooperation with

the DUP and becoming a wholly-owned subsidiary. The elections will be

the test. Stephen, you have followed this very closely and have

written about it on a website. What do you make of the significance of

what happens within the Ulster Unionist Party in the last week?

think Mike has hit on the key point at the moment, saying that he pills

liberated. This is just the beginning of a major problem. They

have lost to a high-profile representatives. They could not

really afford to do that. These guys are now going to be competing

for votes, and they're going to hammer home a series of messages.

What is the difference between the DUP and the DUP? Adding everyone

has noticed that that is a question -- I think of UN has it that is a

question that Basil has been asking. I think what journalists are

hearing and I think... When that question is asked, there is not a

response. It sounds a little tremor, and it feeds into the hands of

anxieties you have spoken about which feeds speculation that there

are people in the party who are not happy and are concerned about where

this will lead. You deal in the world of crisis management. Any

advice for Mike? I do not think so. He is well experienced. You deal

with things that happen in political parties in the same way

you might do with business. One of the things that is very difficult

is the Unionism itself. I think there is not a cigarette paper

between the two parties and that is the big issue that there is. There

is an element here where we need to get honest about where Jeanine

isn't itself... Quite -- where Unionism itself... Were all of the

people who want to consider themselves Yunus... And I do not

think that they are articulating the breadth that there could be out

there. Peter Robinson made it very clear when he was talking on Friday

that he had this is not a one-off. There are we going to see more

candidates in places like East Belfast and South Belfast? I would

be foolish to answer that question. Let's see how the next three weeks

ago. Will we play nice? Will it work for the benefit of Unionism?

It is definitely not being ruled out? Be would be foolish to rule

anything out. -- it would be foolish to rule anything out.

Sheila makes a good point about their not being a cigarette paper

between us. If the DUP proves us to be right, that is something to

celebrate. But there are big differences. We disagree over the

way that's lots of things are being handled. A win every Unionist sit

down -- when ever Unionists said I will have half a pint of what

you're having! Were newness decide if they are going to vote, it is

bigger issues about the union that determines it. An absolutely

critical when people think about who they are going to support his,

by the United, are they a strong and united team? And we have not

been for a long time. We will leave it there. Pinkie very much indeed.

-- thank you very much. Pollet is - a grubby politicians arrives at a

funeral and Londonderry. informed party leader, I informs

them that I would resign. horsemeat controversy continues.

The employment minister announced plans for or education. And

attention at Stormont as a former fire chiefs faced a grilling over

financial irregularities. You said the report was wrong? The gas.

yes. We would like to wish you a It had the potential to change the

shape and size of the Assembly and put in place the framework for a

formal Opposition. But in the end, after public consultation, the

Draft Northern Ireland Bill includes no plans for a major

shake-up of Assembly structures. A ban on double-jobbing is in the

draft law published by the Secretary of State, Theresa

Villiers. It also extends anonymity to those donating to political

parties until at least September 2014. With me to discuss this, Sinn

Fein's West Belfast MP, Paul Maskey, and Nigel Dodds, the DUP for North

Belfast. Is it a damp squib? There is not much in it. We would have

preferred more legislation which could have reduced the number of

government departments. That is something we have been advocating

for 10 years or more. We realise that the Government are saying that

they need a consensus but it is not there. We will continue to advocate

smaller and more efficient government because we think that is

what people want. We hope we will get parties in that position in the

future. This issue will be dealt with for two days at the end of

February, so there could be changes. Certainly, the government in

Westminster does not want to take the lead on some of these issues.

They are saying that it is up to the assembly parties to agree. I am

not against that principle. We will work at this and the remaining time

before the legislation gets into the House of Commons in order to

try and advance that. The numbers will not be reduced automatically

and I think there is an opportunity for us to work together and try to

bring it into the bill. We are very much for that. I think Sinn Fein

are the only party to do so. We have an action on 7th March. The

rest of our four MPs will have seats on the assembly. I hope that

our party set up to the mark because I do not think it is a good

enough to have two different clubs of legislation. At least there is a

move in the direction you want to see. We are have been arguing for

years. We have been saying it is far too high. It needs to be

reduced, certainly down to 100. A needs to be at least under �100,000.

It needs to be less than �7,000. We have argued that for her and number

of years now. All of the parties a to be ensuring that there is

accountability and Trust garden with and the citizens. Why are you

supposed to that level of transparency? The SDLP and Sinn

Fein have come on board after we started the process. .. Ing is

about doing your job. -- double jobbing. They take all of the money

but they do not take the seat. Speaking of donations, it is 7,500

in terms of donations to the party and �15,000 if you are damaging to

members. Those are the figures. We are in favour of moving to as much

transparency as we can as quickly as possible. The SDLP and the

Electoral Commission have a political axe to grind. They have

said that it was still dangerous, and we have seen that highlighted

in recent times, with threats and attacks against elected

representatives. We are seeing the difficulties that remain in and out

of context and until that situation becomes clearer, it remains a

danger to donors potentially. The other point about the UK donation,

Northern Ireland has an exceptional position, where people who are not

citizens or residents of the United Kingdom can donate to parties and

that is a loophole that needs to be closed. Other parties are agreed

with the DUP on this issue. Also, there is a threat, a discernible

threat from dissident republicans to people who might represent

certain political parties in Northern Ireland at the moment.

have heard that argument over the last couple of years and I think it

is absurd and estate full. -- I think political parties have to

be able to raise finances to find their campaigns, but I also believe

quite strongly that there needs to be accountability, because you need

to build the confidence up with the boaters and the electorate. --

rotors. Home you are leaving yourself open two more questions. I

do not think there is a threat there. Every party should put up

the people who donate. And why not say to the donors that their names

will be published so you decide whether or not you support the

political party? The electoral commission looked into this. They

are not political party orientated in any way or shape. In the current

context, they decided it was right to try to move towards

liberalisation and moved towards transparency. The conditions were

not quite right yet for a full openness and transparency. We have

seen the evidence of threats against political parties in recent

months. That's could go on indefinitely. We could say that we

are hoping to make progress on that, but we have seen that there are

people who are determined to try to threaten politicians and the

political process. We have said very clearly that as well as

dealing with transparent the, you have got to deal with the loophole

that allows people who are not even residents of the United Kingdom to

influence party politics and donate to political parties. That is a lot

at the United Kingdom and every other democracy. Sinn Fein and

other parties can benefit from that. Why should that be the case? When a

mega, of Friends of Sinn Fein will raise -- in America, friends of

Sinn Fein will raise the money for the party. We put on our website

north and south of the border. Other parties do not do that. We

are raising money and all of our accounts are put on the hour -- and

all of Our accounts are put out in the open. How do you view the

situation? The message that is being sent out is a pretty negative

one. I am deeply upset that that football match did not go ahead and

buy what to pay credit to Crusaders and Cliftonville as well as

everyone who worked hard to get an agreement. They had reached an

agreement but unfortunately the events do not go ahead and do think

it is a sad day for North Belfast and a sad day for football. We will

be thinking -- working to move things forward. There are reports

of heavy handed policing. One of our councillors was hurt and a