17/06/2012 Sunday Politics Northern Ireland


17/06/2012

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A health service under pressure - we ask the Minister at Edwin Poots

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Howard can recover. And will they or won't they? We

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Apology for the loss of subtitles for 1613 seconds

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lookout the significance of the Hello, and welcome to the Sunday

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politics in Northern Ireland. It has been a difficulty here for the

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health minister. The deaths of four premature babies -- babies from

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pseudomonas, the crisis in Accident and Emergency, and the controversy

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over blood donation. Lifting the ban on gay people seems as far away

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as ever. The important right are the right

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of the person receiving the blood to have confidence the blood will

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not infect them with something else. A, the history of a handshake - as

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Martin McGuinness ponders, we look back as how -- at how history has

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been shaped by the joining of hands. And my studio guests, Sue Ramsey,

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chair of their health committee, and an County Omagh GP.

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He was described as brave for closing the city's Hospital ent E.

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But when things are drunk Edwin Poots was the man in the firing

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line. I spoke to the health minister on Friday and began by

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asking him how he reflects on the past 12 months. It has been an

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interesting time in my life. I regard it as a fantastic

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opportunity. I feel very privileged to do this job, and as their look

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back it has been idea of height and lows. This pseudomonas outbreak,

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for example, that was probably the lowest point. We had the challenge

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is about accident at a bridge at the department's, those were

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difficult things. -- we had challenges about Accident and

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Emergency departments. We recently got the state electronic care

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record, which will enable consultants to work more closely

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with GPs and have a more fluid cyst -- system within the health service.

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We will be opening the new hospital in the south-west this week. Those

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are really exciting and good things and it is great to be involved in

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those. When it comes to Accident and Emergency, there is a sense

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among health professionals you are backtracking on a commitment to the

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A&E hospital. Have you had your fingers burned over what happened

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with the City Hospital? I never made any -- any commitment

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to close Causeway Accident and Emergency. The Compton review

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suggested at least have, and that is on the list of potential

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closures. The Compton review recommended we would have five or

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seven hospitals, and people made an assumption that hospital may close

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as a result of that. I think it is important to maintain public

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confidence. Is the public confidence at the moment? There

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have been suggestions it is not safe, at the close Causeway

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Hospital, and those arguments were used about the city hospital when

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it closed. The hospitals are incompatible. City Hospital is one

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mile from the Royal. Because we is thought to miles from antrum and 30

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miles from another hospital. There was quite a challenge in getting

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people in emergency situations to that alternative force will have --

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to alternative facilities. The challenge we have with the causeway

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is that it retains the skill base and the amount of work that is

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required. I am putting it back to the people who manage that hospital,

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the clinicians within the hospital, and I have no desire to take

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services away from that facility. They need to demonstrate to me they

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can perform those services in a safe and sustainable and resilient

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away, and that is what needs to be done. There are some decisions

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coming up that you have to make. When will you decide on allowing

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gay people to donate blood or not? Interestingly enough, I have

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received two back pieces of correspondence this week. One was

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from my southern counterpart, James Riley, who is indicating they do

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not intend to change their position, which is a permanent deferral, and

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it is not just about HIV but other blood borne viruses. There was a

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second piece of work done recently by the European Council. It

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indicated the majority of states in Europe, which goes beyond the

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European Union, all 54 states would be opposed to moving away from a

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permanent deferral. I think the people who engage in higher risk

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sexual behaviour in general should be excluded from giving blood. If

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someone has sex with someone enough to cut or has sex with prostitutes,

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I am very reluctant about those people being able to give blood. I

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am certainly range it -- raising a whole range of areas. One of the

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things that is important is that we retain confidence in the system.

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This system has worked for many years, so to work away from

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something that is actually working, the old saying, if it isn't broke,

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don't fix it. But if people feel they are being discriminated

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against? The rights that are important are

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the rights of the person receiving the blood to have confidence that

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blood is not something that is going to infect them with something

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else. Is the blood not screened before it is passed on any way?

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The tears. There is some blood that comes in and has turned round very

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quickly, and there can be problems arising as a result of that.

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will you stop donations from England, Scotland and Wales? They

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do not have his ban. The first element of the screening

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is to remove people who engage in risky behaviour. The second element

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is the scientific element, and that will look at the blood itself. What

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we have actually works by removing people we engage in what is

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perceived as being risky behaviour and it actually works very well in

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the second element of the screening. By will receive blood from other

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areas whenever I mediate, the Republic of Ireland or other parts

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of the UK. -- whenever I needed. Aga officials advising this is a

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good idea, or is this how you feel about it?

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I have taken advice from a range of people. I have conflicting advice

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on it, which is part of the problem. Some people would say, we think we

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could go ahead with it, and others are saying we would prefer not to

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do that. That can be quite significant. How can you justify it

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went the minions of people who live in the rest of the UK are, in your

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opinion, were exposed to risk? It is not particularly difficult to

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justify whenever North America doesn't do it. The vast majority of

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Europe has said that they have no intention whatsoever of changing it.

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There are only a few countries in the world who have taken a similar

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line to the UK. When it comes to the future of the

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Health Ministry, the hunt is likely to be run again in the autumn

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because of the dissolution of the Department of Employment and

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learning. Will the DUP take on the health portfolio again?

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I would imagine so, unless someone else tries to take it before us. We

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have enjoyed -- we have a job to do. It is a big job. It is the largest

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department in Government. It has taken some time to turn it around

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and get it pointed in the right direction.

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So Sue Ramsey, you are chair of the health committee and it is your job

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to scrutinise his did -- his decisions. What is your view on

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blood decisions? My view is that he is bringing his

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own prejudices into play here. Edwin Poots, when it suits him,

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says that he takes his line from the British Government. You

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actually highlighted the fact that this ban does not exist in England,

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Scotland and Wales. He also highlighted that we have a robust

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screening programme. We are crying out for blood, it is an issue of

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equality and we have a screening programme to ensure every drop of

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blood is safe for people. He denies it is his own personal opinion, he

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admits there is conflicting advice, but as a committee can you change

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his mind? We will, we can ask for the reports

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he is referring to. He talks about parity, but he is breaking his

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parity with England, Scotland and Wales. It is a matter of equality.

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The issue is that blood is screened. We have a robust screening

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programme and we are crying out for blood donation. We have had to

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bring in blood from the UK because we need it. Anyone that is giving

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blood will be screened, so we did not go down this line of his own

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prejudice coming into play. let's look at some of the wider

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health issues. You come from our area which has

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lost its ENT services. That is having a knock-on effect in other

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parts of Northern Ireland. -- lost its Accident and Emergency services.

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We fought very hard in County -- format to save our services. We

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did highlight that it would put pressures on all the Govan hospital

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and the Ayr hospital. -- the earn hospital. That it -- the low point

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for me was the death of the gentleman in the Royal Hospital. It

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highlights that being E services are overstretched, and my own

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patient to complain when they attend the hospitals that they have

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very excessive times to wake. -- my own patient do complain. If a GP

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refers for assessment, many patients are asked to attend

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Accident and Emergency. The Erne Hospital Has an assessment unit

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where patients can be assessed and that is a better system. There is

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another side to it, isn't there? There are people in Accident and

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Emergency he should not be there. But is there then that not pressure

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on people like yourself to provide a service to stop people going to

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accident adamant that the in the first place?

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That is right, this is why there is call location between the accident

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and unedited apartment and the GP out-of-hours service. -- Accident

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and Emergency department. GPs are happy to treat General Medical

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cases to allow Accident and Emergency to be freed up for

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genuine emergencies. That is appropriate. It will give the

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patients a better service with shorter waiting times. We also --

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often hear that politics overrides the health service because people

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are looking over their shoulders for votes. Do you think that has

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come to an end? I am there to ensure my

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constituents get the best service they are entitled to. I am not

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coming up this from a political point of view. It is about ensuring

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that health is three at the point of delivery, there is a quality

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around the health services, and there is an issue with making a

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decision to close one hospital, the impact it has on other hospitals.

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For a long time we were not looking beyond the boundaries of health

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trusts. We need to look at the impact of a decision in one area

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and how that can have an impact on another of area.

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The you think it was wrong to close the city hospital?

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We are still told that is only a temporary decision, so I think they

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need to be honest with people. We have seen that the problems the

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Royal Hospital has been under. That is the system within hospital

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services. In politics, a handshake can help

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seal the deal or change the mood. But the timing has to be right. We

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have a report on the importance of Handshakes have provided some of

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the most seminal moments in political history, and not just in

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Ireland. Some gestures appear highly significant at the time and

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lead nowhere. I suppose the most famous example would be the

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handshake on the lawn of the White House between Yitzhak Rabin and

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Yasser Arafat. The peace process then went into the sand. That did

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not have a long lasting impact. There are other cases, I suppose.

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The most iconic one would be Nelson Mandela putting on that the

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Springbok jersey at the final of the World Cup in 1995.

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The sculpture, entitled reconciliation cannot was inspired

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by the end of the Second World War. It was unveiled at Stormont 12

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years ago by David Trimble, one of several symbolic axe at a difficult

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time in the peace process. Some gestures undoubtedly help to

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underpin the political process, but not everyone is impressed. These

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things are hyped for the optics, and sometimes for the gullible, to

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try and pretend there is more significant than what lies behind.

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I think that is not the real historical significance of any of

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that in a handshake, handshakes and back-slapping. We have seen that,

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Ian Paisley back-slapping Bertie Ahern, all of that.

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Traditionally, handshakes have been seminal. They are important, they

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show leadership and demonstrate growth in political maturity. But

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that kind of growth only comes with integrity, and I think the general

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public absolutely understand whether a gesture has integrity or

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not. The Queen's visit to the book last

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year and were gestures of reconciliation and respect mark a

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new age in Anglo-Irish relations. The visit was highly significant in

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terms of being the cherry on top of the final culmination of a process,

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it really kind of sealed the deal in saying that Britain and Ireland

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had a very different relationship. Here is a handshake that means a

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lot in Ballymena. The council has elected its first ever nationalist

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Mayor. Whatever the issue on the Sinn Fein's internal debate, most

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people believe Martin McGuinness should meet the Queen and so rather

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than later. The Queen went to the south of Ireland and was made very

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welcome, so why don't see why she should not be made welcome up here.

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They're supposed to be working together now, you know, and it is

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about time that Martin McGuinness met the Queen. I think it might be

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too early. For him or for her? For Martin. You think now is not

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the right time? Not right away. would just make people want to live

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together and agree more. You think it is that important if he was to

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make such a gesture? I think it would help. Copies of this

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sculpture have been installed in other countries where there has

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been division and conflict. Sinn Fein's Division once again will

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draw international attention to Northern Ireland and how our

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politicians deal with reconciliation.

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Sue Ramsey, obviously you party colleague highlighted on this

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programme last week that the continuing problems around this

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issue. When you think a final decision will be made by Martin

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McGuinness? It will be made by a our national Executive, so I don't

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want to pre-empt or speculate on what they will want to say. On the

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issue of handshakes, it was interesting to hear Jim Allister. I

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would be happy the day Jim Allister said good morning to me. There is a

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lot of work still to be done their. One day, me and Jim will actually

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have a cup of tea. Your party leader obviously shook hands with

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many different people back in the 1990s and in the early decade

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following, do you see this as the final piece of the jigsaw?

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I think so. I think Her Majesty the Queen blazed a trail in Anglo-Irish

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relations and demonstrated the need for reconciliation and the need to

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go forward positively. I think all of us being able to shake hands is

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the next step on that journey. He writes, fagging and the National

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Trust branded a disgrace. All end up weeks' work as Stephen Walker

:46:08.:46:18.
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looks back in 60 seconds. Gay right Gay rights caused trouble with the

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Unionists. By day I grew up believing that same-sex marriage

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and Sensex relationships was not right.

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At Stormont, others had difficulty keeping quiet.

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Pilot wanted to shut down one of Belfast's imports. Conservationists

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took a swing at plan for a Gulf course, leaving some supporters

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teed off. -- a Gulf course. The National

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Trust should change their name to a national disgrace.

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Arlene Foster told the Co-op to but out of the flagging debate.

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At one MLA fluffed her lines. We will see if they're getting rid

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It is a big week in Enniskillen, obviously it will have an impact

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for people from our own, as well. Do you welcome the new St Helens

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and Whiston are I absolutely do. We need high-quality clinical

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services. I have no doubt the people of all map will support this

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fabulous new hospital. It represents state of-the-art

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technology and I hope we will recruit top nursing and consultancy

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staff. Is it an example of how we can make mature decisions, and on

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this occasion people and County our own missed out in favour of the

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people of County Fermanagh. We think this is a signal to the rest

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of Northern Ireland of how things will be in the future?

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I don't think the people will adopt a dog in the manger approach, if we

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don't get acute services we will not support Enniskillen. I don't

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think that will happen. We're riddled to get our own new local

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enhanced hospital by 2015. That will provide a lot of local

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services for the people and I think that many valuable services will be

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delivered locally, as it should be. It is difficult though. On the

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