25/05/2014 Sunday Politics Northern Ireland

Good morning, welcome to the Sunday Politics. Senior Liberal Democrats

say the public has lost trust in Nick Clegg. They call for him to go

after the local election meltdown. And before the likely Europa rove a

catastrophe tonight. Labour and Tories struggled to cope with the

UKIP insurgency as Nigel Farage hosts his success and declares the

UKIP Fox is in the Westminster henhouse.

And coming up in half an hour: Sinn Fein and the DUP vie for the title

of top party after Thursday's local election. We'll hear claim and

counter-claim from the main parties disappeared, UKIP failed to show.

More analysis in just over half an hour.

Cooped up in the Sunday Politics henhouse, our own boot should --

bunch of headless chickens. Nick Watt, Helen Lewis, Janan Ganesh. The

Liberal Democrats lost over 300 councillors on Thursday, on top of

the losses in previous years, the local government base has been

whittled away in many parts of the country. Members of the European

Parliament will face a similar comment when the results are

announced tonight. A small but growing chorus of Liberal Democrats

have called on Nick Clegg to go. This is what the candidate in West

Dorset had to say. People know that locally we worked

incredibly hard on their councils and as their MPs, but Nick Clegg is

perceived to have not been trustworthy in leadership. Do you

trust him? He has lacked bone on significant issues that are the core

values of our party. This is how the party president

responded. At this time, it would be foolish

for us as a party to turn in on ourselves. What has separated us

from the Conservatives is, while they have been like cats in a sack,

we have stood united, and that is what we will continue to do. The

major reason why is because we consented to the coalition, unlike

the Conservatives. We had a vote, and a full conference.

Is there a growing question over Nick Clegg's leadership? Different

people have different views. My own view is I need to consult my own

activists and members before coming to a conclusion. I am looking at

holding a meeting for us to discuss the issue. I have been told by some

people they do not think a meeting is required, they think he should

stay, and other people have decided he should go. As a responsible

Democrat, I should consult the members here before coming to my

conclusions. What is your view at the moment? I have got to listen to

my members. But you must have some kind of you. Because I have an open

mind, I do not think he must stay, I am willing to say I have not made my

mind up. From a news point of view, that is my official position. I can

assure you there is not much news in that! I said earlier I am not going

to say he must go must stay, I am consulting my members. But you must

have some kind of view of your own before you have listened to your

members. There are people who are wrongfully sanctioned and end up

using food banks, I am upset about that, because we should not

allow... I do not mind having a sanctioning system, that I get

constituents who are put in this position, we should not accept that.

I rebel on the issue of a referendum on membership of the EU. I am also

concerned about the way the rules have been changed in terms of how

parents are treated in their ability to take children to funerals out of

school time. There are questions about the leader's responsible T for

those policies. Nick Clegg has made it clear he is a staunch

pro-European, he wants the Liberal Democrats to be in, he does not want

a referendum, if you lose a chunk of your MEPs tonight, what does that

say about how in June you are with written public opinion? There are

issues with how you publish your policies. I do not agree 100% with

what the government is doing or with what Nick Clegg says. I do think we

should stay within the EU, because the alternative means we have less

control over our borders. There is a presentational issue, because what

UKIP want, to leave the EU, is worse in terms of control of borders,

which is their main reason for wanting to leave, which is strange.

There are debate issues, but I have got personal concerns, I do worry

about the impact on my constituents when they face wrongful sanctions.

You have said that. A fellow Liberal Democrat MP has compared Nick Clegg

to a general at the Somme, causing carnage amongst the troops. I am

more interested in the policy issues, are we doing the right

things? I do think the coalition was essential, we had to rescue the

country from financial problems. My own view on the issue of student

finance, we did the right thing, in accordance with the pledge, which

was to get a better system, more students are going to university,

and more from disadvantaged backgrounds. But there are issues.

But Nick Clegg survive as leader through till the next election? It

depends what odds you will give me! If you are not going to give me is,

I am not going to get! If you listen to John hemming, he has got nothing

to worry about. He does have something to worry about, they lost

300 seats, on the uniform swing, you would see people like Vince cable

and Simon Hughes lose their seats. But nobody wants to be the one to

we'll be nice, they would rather wait until after the next election,

and then rebuild the party. Yes, there is no chance of him walking

away. Somebody like Tim Farron or Vince Cable, whoever the successor

is, though have to close the dagger ten months before an election, do

they want that spectacle? If I were Nick Clegg, I would walk away, it is

reasonably obvious that the left-wing voters who defect had

towards the Labour Party in 2010 will not return while he is leader.

And anything he was going to achieve historically, the already has done.

Unlike David Miliband, sorry, Ed Miliband or David Cameron, he has

transformed the identity of the party, they are in government. Had

it not been for him, they would have continued to be the main protest

party, rather than a party of government. So he has got to take it

all the way through until the election. If he left now, he would

look like he was a tenant in the conservative house. What we are

seeing is an operation to destabilise Nick Clegg, but it is a

Liberal Democrat one, so it is chaotic. There are people who have

never really been reconciled to the coalition and to Nick Clegg, they

are pushing for this. What is Nick Clegg going to do, and Tim Farron?

-- what is Vince Cable going to do? Vince Cable is in China, on a

business trip. It is like John Major's toothache in 1990. What is

Tim Farron doing? He is behind Nick Clegg, because he knows that his

best chances of being leader are as the Westland candidate, the person

who picks up the mess in a year. Vince Cable's only opportunity is on

this side of the election. But you say they are not a party of

government, but what looks more likely is overall the -- is no

overall control. You might find a common mission looking appealing.

They could still hold the balance of power. A lot of people in the Labour

Party might say, let's just have a minority government. 30 odds and

sods who will not turn up to vote. If they want to be up until 3am

every morning, be like that! When you were in short trousers, it was

like that every night, it was great fun! The Liberal Democrats will not

provide confidence to a minority government, they will pull the plug

and behave ruthlessly. Does Nick leg lead the Liberal Democrats into the

next election? Yes. Yes. Yes. I am sorry, Nick Clegg, you are

finished! We will speak to Paddy Ashdown in the second part of the

show to speak about the Liberal Democrats. The UKIP insurgency could

not deliver the promised earthquake, but it produced enough shock waves

to discombobulated the established parties. They are struggling to work

out how to deal with them. We watched it all unfold.

Behind the scenes of any election night is intensely busy. Those in

charge of party strategy and logistics want their people focused,

working with purpose and rehearsed to make sure their spin on the

results is what viewers remember and take on board. A bit of a buzz of

activity inside the BBC's studio, kept and primed for the results.

What this does not show due is the exterior doubles up for hospital

dramas like Holby City, there are doorways that are mock-ups of

accident and emergency, but the electorate will discover which of

the parties they have put into intensive care, which ones are

coming out of recovery and which ones are in rude health. We joined

David Dimbleby. Good evening, welcome to the BBC's new election

centre. When three big beasts become for on the political field, things

have changed. Eric Pickles says we will be seen off next year, we will

see you at Westminster! This party is going to break through next year,

and you never know, we might even hold the balance of power. Old

messages that gave voters in excuses to go elsewhere on the ballot paper

exposed the older players to questions from within their ranks.

In the hen house of the House of Commons, the fox that wants to get

in has ruffled feathers. The reason they have had amazing success, a

rapid rise, partly what Chuka Umunna says about being a repository, but

they have also managed to sound like human beings, and that his Nigel

Farage's eight victory. For some conservatives, a pact was the best

form of defence. It would be preferable if all members of UKIP

and voters became Tories overnight. That seems to be an ambitious

proposition. Therefore, we need to do something that welcomes them on

board in a slightly different way. Labour had successes, but nobody but

they're wizards of Spain was completely buying a big success

story. Gaffes behind the scenes and strategic errors were levelled at

those who have managed the campaign. They have played a clever game, you

shuffle bedecked around, and if UKIP does quite well but not well enough,

that helps Labour get in. That kind of mindset will not win the general

election, and we saw that in the tap ticks and strategy, and that is why,

on our leaflets for the European elections, we chose deliberately not

to attack UKIP, that was a bad error. Not so, so somebody who has

been in that spotlight. If you look at the electoral maths, UKIP will

still be aiming at the Tories in a general election. They are the

second party in Rotherham, Labour will always hold what the room, it

is safe, there is no point being second in a safe seat. UKIP have

taken Castle Point, a Tory seat they will target. The question for the

next election, can they make a challenge? The Tories will be under

the gun from UKIP. The substance of these results is UKIP not in

government, they do not have any MPs, they do not run a single

Council, at dismissing them ceased to be an option. The question is,

who will they heard most and how do you smoke the keeper's threat?

Joining me now, day about and Patrick O'Flynn. Do you agree not

enough was done for the elections? No, we have very good results around

Hammersmith and Fulham, Croydon, Redbridge, and we picked off council

wards in Haringey meaning that Lynne Featherstone and Simon Hughes worked

on. The Ashcroft polling shows that in key marginals, we are well ahead

and on course to win in 2015. I will be putting Mr Ashcroft's poll to

Eric Pickles shortly. On the basis of the local elections your national

share of the vote would be just 31%, only two points ahead of the Tories,

only two points ahead of Gordon Brown's disastrous performance in

2010. Why so low? National share is one thing but I am talking about

what we are doing in the key marginals. Clearly some were taken

away from others like Rotherham but we have got many voters back. You

are only two points better than you were in 2010 and use of your worst

defeat in living memory. That is the totality. What matters

is seat by seat, that is what the Republicans found in the

presidential elections. Patrick O'Flynn, you performed well in the

local election but it wasn't an earthquake. It is definitely true

that Labour did well in London but that is a double-edged sword because

you have an increasing disconnect between the metropolis and the rest

of the country. Our vote share was somewhat depressed not just because

London is one of our weakest part of the country but because most of the

warts in London were 3-member wards and we were typically only putting

up one candidate. Even when they fared well, it still tracked down

the projected national share. I think we did well, and what was

particularly good was getting the target seat list becoming clear

before our eyes. Suzanne Evans said that basically smart folk don't vote

for UKIP. I think that is a tiny fragment of what she said. She said

London is its own entity and is increasingly different from the rest

of the country. One of the things that is different from London as

opposed to Rotherham is that we have very big parties. I have a few

thousand people in mind, Rotherham has a few hundred. People don't go

and knock on doors and talk to people, in London we have always had

to do that. London is full of young voters, full of ethnically diverse

voters, that is why you are not doing well, you don't appeal to live

there. I think London in general has a very different attitude to mass

uncontrolled immigration. Londoners know that if an immigrant moves in

next door to you, to use Nigel Farage's phrase, the world doesn't

end tomorrow. People in the big cities know that, that is the point.

What Diane Abbott is doing is try to convince London of its moral

superiority so I am delighted... It is a simple fact that immigrants do

not end the world if they move in next door. The economic recovery is

getting more robust by the month, you have a seriously to ship problem

according to many people on your own site. Maybe you're 31% of the vote

is as good as it gets. Those who go round bitching about Ed Miliband

have been doing that before the result. We have all polled very

well. Ed Miliband does not polled very well. He has actually fashioned

some really effective policies. Unemployment is tumbling, inflation

is falling, growth is strengthening, and you have a leader who claims

there is a cost of living crisis and he doesn't have a clue about his own

cost of living. I think that was poor staff work. That he doesn't

know what goes in his own shopping basket? I think his own staff could

have prepared him for that. My point is that the numbers are looking

better, we know that, but people don't feel better off. Then why are

all consumer index polls better? They are feeling confident. They may

be saying that, but people are worried about their future, their

children's future. That is not what you buy today or tomorrow. If you

ask people about their future and their children's future and

prospects, they feel frightened. What will be a good result for you

in the general election? We need to see Nigel Farage elected as an MP

and he mustn't go there on his own. How many people do you think will be

with him? Who knows, but we will have 20 to 30 target seat and if you

put together the clusters we got in last year's County elections with

the one we got this year, you can have a good guess at where they

are. A number of people who voted for you and Thursday say they are

going to back to the three main parties in general election. It

would be foolish of me to say that they are going to stay. Some have

said they have just lent their votes but voters hate being taken for

granted. It is up to us to broaden our agenda, and build on our

strengths, work on our weaknesses. Ed Miliband may have to do a deal

with him. We have been here before, but the UKIP bubble is going to

burst and that may happen around the time of Newark. Are you going to win

Newark now? We are going to give it a really good crack. We love being

the underdog, we don't see it as being the big goal -- the be all and

end all. If you're going to get a big bounce off the elections, not to

go and win your shows people who govern in Parliament, they don't

vote for you. It is Labour who have given up the campaign already so we

need a really big swing in our favour and we will give it a great

crack. The bubble will burst at the Newark by-election, trust me. Have

you been to Newark? Newark will see from local people... Where is it? It

is outside the M25, I can tell you that. My point is that we are set

for victory in 2015. I want to run this clip and get your take on it,

an interview that Nigel Farage did with LBC. What they do is they have

an auditor to make sure they spend their money in accordance with their

rules. You say that is if there is something wrong with it. Hang on,

hang on. This is Patrick O'Flynn, is this a friend in the media or a

member of the political class? Do you regret doing that now? What were

you doing? No, I was trying to get Nigel Farage to a more important

interview with Sunday Times that had painstakingly organised. He was on

there? I have told the LBC people next door that he was running over.

So you interrupted a live interview and you don't regret that? No,

because just between us I wasn't a massive enthusiast for that

interview taking place at all. I know what James O'Brien is like and

I knew it wouldn't be particularly edifying. But your boss wasn't happy

with the intervention. Sometimes the boss gets shirty. We all upset our

boss every now and again, but anyway you could be an MEP by this time

tomorrow and you won't have to do this job any more. You can then just

count your salary and your expenses. I will make the contribution my

party leader asked me to, to restore Britain to being a self-governing

country. Are you going to stay in the job or not? I would not be able

to do the job in the same way but I would maybe have some kind of

overview. We will leave it there. Yesterday Michael Ashcroft, a former

deputy chairman, produced a mammoth opinion poll of more than 26,000

voters in 26 marginal constituencies, crucial seat that

will decide the outcome of the general election next year. In 26

constituencies people were asked which party's candidate they would

support, and Labour took a healthy 12 point lead, implying a swing of

6.5% from Conservatives to Labour from the last general election. That

implies Labour would topple 83 Tory MPs. The poll also shows UKIP in

second place in four seats, and three of them are Labour seats.

Michael Ashcroft says a quarter of those who say they would vote UKIP

supported the Tories at the last election. As many as have switched

from Labour and the Lib Dems combined.

The communities Secretary Eric Pickles joins me now. The Ashcroft

Paul that gives Labour a massive 12 point lead in the crucial marginal

constituencies, you would lose 83 MPs if this was repeated in an

election. It doesn't get worse than that, does it? Yesterday I went

through that Paul in great detail, and what it shows is that in a

number of key seats we are ahead, and somewhere behind, and I think is

Michael rightly shows... You are behind in most of them. This is a

snapshot and we have a year in which the economy is going to be

improving, and we have a year to say to those candidates that are

fighting those key seats, look, just around the corner people are ahead

in the same kind of seat as you and we need to redouble our efforts. The

Tory brand is dying in major parts of the country, you are the walking

dead in Scotland, and now London, huge chunks of London are becoming a

no-go zone for you. That's not true with regard to the northern seats.

Tell me what seats you have? In terms of councillors we are the

largest party in local government. After four years in power... You are

smiling but no political party has ever done that. You haven't got a

single councillor in the great city of Manchester. We have councillors

in Bradford and Leeds, we have more... You haven't got an MP in any

of the big cities? We have more councillors in the north of England

than Labour. A quarter of those who say they would vote UKIP and did

vote UKIP supported the Tories at the last election. Why are so many

of your 2010 voters now so disillusioned? Any election will

bring a degree of churning, and we hope to get as many back as we can,

but we also want to get Liberal Democrats, people who voted for the

Lib Dems and the Labour Party. If we concentrate on one part of the

electorate, then we won't take power and I believe we will because I

believe we represent a wide spectrum of opinion in this country and I

believe that delivering a long-term economic plan, delivering prosperity

into people 's pockets will be felt. On the basis of the local election

results, you would not pick up a single Labour seat in the general

election. You make the point that it is about local elections. Seats that

Labour should have taken from us they didn't, which is important... I

am asking what possible Labour seat you would hope to win after the

results on Thursday. Local elections are local elections. The national

election will have a much bigger turnout, it will be one year from

now, we will be able to demonstrate to the population that the trends we

are seeing already in terms of the success of our long-term economic

plan, they will be feeling that in their pockets. People need to feel

secure about their jobs and feel that their children have a future.

Maybe so many of your people are defecting to UKIP because on issues

that they really care about like mass immigration, you don't keep

your promises. We have reduced immigration and the

amount of pull factors. Let me give you the figures. You have said a

couple of things are not true. You promised to cut net immigration to

under 100,000 by 2015, last year it rose by 50,000, 212,000. You have

broken your promise. We still intend to reduce the amount from non-EU

countries. I want to be clear, I have no problem with people coming

here who want to work and pay their national insurance and tax, to help

fund the health service. What I have objection to our people coming here

to get the additional benefits. You made the promise. It is our

intention to deliver it. People defect to UKIP because mainstream

politicians to -- like yourself do not give straight answers. Can you

be straight, you will not hit your immigration target by the election,

correct? We will announce measures that. People factor. Will you hit

your target? It is a year from now, it is our intention to move towards

the target. Is it your intention, do you say you will hit your target of

under 100,000 net migration by the election? We will do our damnedest.

But you will not make it. I do not know that to be fact. They also vote

UKIP cos they do not trust you and Europe, David Cameron has promised a

referendum, he has vowed to resign if he does not deliver one, but

still your voters vote for UKIP. There were reasons why people voted

for UKIP. A great deal of anger about the political system, about

the Metropolitan elite that they see running programmes like this and the

political programmes. We need to listen to their concerns and address

them. David Cameron has got a better record on delivery. He vetoed a

treaty, he stopped us having to bail out the currency. Why are you likely

to convert a night in the European elections? If you do come third, it

will show they do not trust you on Europe. Next year, we will face a

general election, about having money in people's pockets, about who will

run the country. David Davis wants to China and get the voters to trust

the Tories on the referendum, he was the pledge to be brought forward to

2016. He is a clever guy. But if you are going to try to negotiate a

better deal to give the population a better choice, you cannot do that in

a year, you will require two years. You are an Essex MP, you know about

Essex people, it must be depressing that they are now voting for UKIP. I

do not have any UKIP in my constituency. I felt bad to see

Basildon go down and to see the leader go down. Do you know why that

is? The Tory party does not resonate with the Essex people in the way

that the Margaret Thatcher party did. That is why you did not get a

majority in 2010 and why you will not win in 2015. We need to connect

better. They will want to know about their children's future, will they

have a job, a good education? When it comes to electing a national

government, they do not want to see Ed Miliband in office. They are

voting for Nigel Farage. In terms of what government you get, do you want

to see David Cameron in number ten or Ed Miliband? Essex will want to

see David Cameron. You only got 36% of the vote four years ago, your

party, occurs you did not get the Essex people in the same numbers,

like John Major or Margaret Thatcher did. You need more than 36% in 2015

to win the election. On Thursday, your share was 29%. We were 2%

behind Labour. They did not do very well either. A year before, -- a

year before the election in 1997, they were on 43%. It is highly

deliver the votes. We have a campaign looking at the marginals.

We know exactly where we are not doing as well as we should be. I am

a big fan of Michael Ashcroft. Do you think he does this to be

helpful? He is a great man and a good conservative, I am a good

friend of his. I think that his publication was one of the best

things that happened to the party. You got 36% of the vote last time,

you are down to 29, you need 38 or 39, you would get that if you had a

pact with UKIP. There will be no pact. I am a Democrat. It is like a

market stall, you should put your policies out there and you should

not try to fix the market. Would you stop a local pact? There will be no

pact with UKIP. None. It has just gone 11:35am. We say

goodbye to Hello and welcome to Sunday Politics

in Northern Ireland. It's all over bar the shouting for

the council elections anyway. All 462 seats in the 11 new super

councils have been declared, while the parties and the pundits continue

to pore over their spreadsheets to determine the full implications of

Thursday's poll. There were no major shifts, smaller parties and

independents have become a bigger part of the picture, the Ulster

Unionists made gain, the DUP and SDLP have less to celebrate while

Sinn Fein's vote decreased slightly. We'll hear from the five main

parties shortly and assess what the results might mean for politics here

in the next 12 months with Professor Rick Wilford from Queen's

University. Let's have a look at how the parties

stand at the end of the counting. The overall picture, as far as first

preference votes is concerned, saw Sinn Fein on top with 24% and the

DUP with 23%. The Ulster Unionists secured 16% with the SDLP on 13.5%.

Alliance polled just under 7% of the vote. The changes from the 2011

local government elections show Sinn Fein with a slight drop, the DUP

dipping by 4%, the UUP up by nearly 1% and the SDLP down by 1.5%.

Looking at the overall seats table we see the DUP on top with 130

seats, Sinn Fein with 105, UUP with 88 and the SDLP with 66. Then comes

Alliance with 32 seats and Jim Allister's TUV with 13 seats. Rick

Wilford has been monitoring the results as they've come in over the

weekend and he's with me now. You have been poring over at your

spreadsheet. What do you think the big story is? Sinn Fein are ahead in

the populist vote by the DUP are ahead in the seat count. That has

reproduced the performance at the Assembly election at the Westminster

election and the European election, where Sinn Fein has topped the

polling. As always, with any election, some parties would have

reasons to be cheerful and others will have reasons to be cheered

less. There is no growth and there suggests that there has been no

doubts from the arrest of Gerry Adams. -- balance. He was talking

about the electorate being Hellenized but that has not

happened. It might -- galvanised. There could be wary that this could

have an effect on the outcome of the European election, where eyes

suspect that votes will go to Jim Nicholson to get him over the line.

The party that has taken the biggest hit is the SDLP. This is it weakest

performance during the post-agreement. Since 1998. The

trend for them is downwards. It is Alastair McDonald's first election

since the coming leader of the partly -- party. A tide could be

turning for the UUP, but they will be cheered by this. They will argue

that they have turned a corner. The other parties more or less are

stable. It is no great seismic change here. But of course, one of

the outcomes is the balance of parties in the councils, and no

single party has had an overall majority in any counsel, and that

means there will not be a premium on trying to make difficult decisions

that they are going to have to make over the next 12 months. We have

also seen a lot of smaller parties not doing well. That is very often

the case at local government level. We have seen two things that have

been striking, for agreeing the counselors, and 13 for the TUV. --

for greener counselors. This could cause a bit of a wobble

in the DUP because they will be concerned about whether this is the

beginning of growth. The PUD has done well as well and they have

tripled their vote since the last election. That demonstrates the

outcome of very hard work and voter registration, particularly in West

Belfast. The Green Party has quadrupled. The other party out like

to mention is the Alliance Party. They seemed to weather the storm.

They slipped a bit, not much. I think they are through the worst of

it. We will see. Thank you very much indeed. We'll hear more from you

later. Those were the main themes of the election. Our reporter has been

looking back at how the story developed once counting got underway

on Friday morning. Elections throw up drama by their

very nature. It is always a story of who are the winners and two are the

losers, but this campaign was all the more remarkable for producing a

shock even before the balance were counted. The -- balance. A story was

provided that no-one predicted. Hours before polling day, one party

was torn apart in a row about we designation and allegations of

improper behaviour by the leader, which he denies. Of the parties 47

candidates, on the one was a successful. The transfer the -- only

one. The transfer put me ahead of the DUP and made sure about my seat

and counsel which I am grateful for. The Ulster Unionist vote has gone up

and they have won seats with new candidates. It was also good for the

TUV party. But within the Unionist party, it is clear all is not well.

He never attacked Sinn Fein. He never attacked the SDLP. You are

absolutely pathetic. The only person you have attacked... I am not in bed

with Sinn Fein. A lack of harmony is not confined to unionism. Between

Sinn Fein and the SDLP, the issue of votes transfer is in this election

has caused tension. Why did you not encourage your voters to give

preferences to the SDLP, and other pro-agreement party? You were asked

that several times and you never answered. You never said, yes, that

is what people should do. I do not have any confidence in the SDLP. It

is absolutely outrageous that he would say that. We know anecdotally

on the grounds that Sinn Fein people have been saying, do not vote for

Alex Atwood, just vote for Martina Anderson. In Belfast, there was much

focus on how the Alliance Party would fare after the plaque -- flag

protests. A much talked about voter backlash never materialised. It is

very clear that despite the fact that a meltdown was predicted it did

not come. The people of Belfast know that we have served them properly

and with respect and dignity and they have shown that in the polling

today. The smaller parties will have a voice and a new councils,

including UKIP, the Green Party and the PEP. In Derry where the SDLP had

problems, this man topped the poll in his area. I believe I got my

votes from a broad spectrum of people, particularly those who are

dissatisfied with the political parties and believe that they are

not represented their best interests. This has been about the

most dramatic change in local government for 40 years. Now we know

who controls our 11 new councils. They have new powers in key

decisions to make on planning, services and budgets. The elections

are over, but many battles lie ahead.

With me in the studio are the Ulster Unionist leader, Mike Nesbitt, the

deputy leader of the Alliance Party, Naomi Long, the SDLP leader,

Alasdair McDonnell, Niall Donnghaile from Sinn Fein, and from our Foyle

studio we're joined by the DUP's Gregory Campbell. Thank you all.

Mike Nesbitt, your colleague Danny Kennedy concluded yesterday with a

claim that you had won this election. Nobody denies you've done

better than many people thought you would, but you what you've managed

to do is to stop the rot. We have started the revival. I said that

when I've put myself up for leadership I would offer to leave

the party through to electoral cycle. This is a cycle one. We have

achieved three things. We are stable for the first time in living

memory, we have two build departure lines to build that, but we are

stable. We have taken the off this narrative that we are in terminal

decline. Thirdly, we wanted to growth, and if you look at votes

cast, percentage votes and seats one, we have started to grow, and as

Eisai, that is phase one of cycle one and it will be a long process.

-- and as I've say. You can put it in a certain context if you are

begrudging. You have done better than many people thought you would

do. I am just pointing out the facts. By inputting it into context

and trying to understand what has been achieved. -- I am putting it

into context. Ulster Unionists will be looking at the scoreboard in the

newspapers and they will be motivated and we are on a journey

and it is an upward journey and a positive journey.

Gregory Campbell, Sammy Wilson described the result as

disappointing in places blaming Jim Allister's European candidate

profile and the switch to the right of the UUP. Agree? I think that is a

reasonably accurate assessment. The European election nationally was

dominated by UKIP and the anti-European feeling, which we are

a part of, and of course, Jeb Allister entering the phrase as well

as the smaller parties, and that resulted in what we have described

as a shredding of the Unionist vote. That is bad enough in a public

relations election, but some people were saying, as long as people

transfer, that does not result in shredding, but you never get the

position where 100% of voters going out to vote for a smaller candidate

alternates for themselves, and we saw evidence of that yesterday, they

do not transfer to other parties, so there is a degree of shredding no

matter what people say. We have to look at the analysis over the next

few weeks, look at areas where there might have been too many

candidates. Our vote was excellent and in many areas it was

tremendous. We started at a very high plateau to retain that was very

good. We had a slight rock. I think -- I think that the one thing Mike

doesn't want to do is become known as 0.1% Nesbitt. He is seeing the

funny side of that. You are ahead in terms of seats, with 130, but a lot

of people predicted you should have coming closer to 140, and her party

leader said you could have won a few more seats, but in terms of the

popular vote, you are 6000 behind Shin pain. We are the biggest party

-- Sinn Fein. We are the biggest party and we have more seats than

anyone else. Not the terms of the popular vote. It dispels any notion

of complacency. I have always argued for this. We always need to say, as

soon as the election is over, you know cool down and prepare for the

next one and see where you can put fewer candidates and get a bigger

vote in various areas, and there are numbers of areas where we can learn

lessons. We held up tremendously given that we are at a high plateau.

We always have to remember the relative aspect of the response this

time compared to the previous election and the key is to build on

this for the next election. A bit disappointing as far as the

Sinn Fein was concerned? It could have been a nightmare, but it proved

difficult for us, and people wanted to continue to have a Sinn Fein

voice in a part of the city that has seen some purging negative

leadership in the last couple of years. -- pretty negative. It was a

good result for the party in Belfast. The arrest of Gerry Adams,

some of the people in the party thought that would galvanize the

support for Sinn Fein. We will see how that goes. We look at the party

and we look to see how we do overall, and Sinn Fein has bounced

and are doing very well. It was disappointing that you did

not get the seats that many people thought you would get based on your

performance last time. I think it is a bit harsh to say that it is

disappointing. We are the third largest party in Belfast city

Council. A wipe-out was being predicted, so the fact that we held

our ground in a very testing 18 months for the Alliance Party as

actually good for the party. There are places where, due to boundary

changes, we did not convert those votes into seats, and that is a

change -- shame, even in Belfast where we were ahead in the popular

votes. That is always unfortunate. I am very pleased in terms of the

performance of the party, not just in Belfast, but also in other

places, where we have two counselors elected in two different councils,

which is a real step forward to us and gives us the ability to build.

Think there is opportunity there for Alliance. Not what we would have

liked at the high water mark but we managed not to be wiped out as

everybody protected. I am sure you heard part -- talk about it if you

did not, there was talk of being on notice in East Belfast. There is

talk that you cannot hold onto the seat. Peter Robinson is never

someone who has been accused of grace under pressure. When I was

elected in 2003, he predicted that the Alliance Party was finished and

we would have to scrape the barrel to find a candidate and I think he

took that the -- and I think he was wrong. I proved we did not have to

scrape the bottom of the barrel. He has not done the sums very well. He

did not say the DUP would take the seat. The person he was going to be

my successor was pleading with other unionists including those who have

beaten him up physically and metaphorically, begging them to form

a pact, because they are in a firefight. They could not beat me. I

would simply caution them. They tried that against a predecessor. We

might come onto that issue a bit later. You would have heard and not

like the comments from the professor 's saying this is not an auspicious

start to your leadership of the SDLP and the downward trend continues as

far as her party is concerned. I am very pleased with the outcome of the

election as far as the SDLP is concerned. I set out to renew the

party and rebuild the party and I am very happy and I want to thank the

candidates for the success that we have had. We have 66 council seats.

The pendants were predicting 66 or 67. -- dependence.

We have mustered up the level that I anticipated and we now have 40%

women are preventing us. 26 out of 66. When you look at the graph.

2005... You asked me a question and I am trying to answer it. 40% of our

counselors are new as well. -- candidates. Some of them are

younger. The party is renewing. This has been the greatest change in the

SDLP in its existence and it is working, and the fact that we might

have slipped up and others have made mistakes is not all that relevant in

the overall plan of things, because we were build on what we have got

here and we will go forwards and the people that we have brought in, so

many of them are capable of being Assembly candidates. I am delighted

with them. They may not be in big the -- as big a number as they have

been in the past. The local government in 2005 you had 17%, and

then in the last election you had 50% and that is now 13.5%. There is

a clear downward trend. Mike Nesbitt is delighted about that. Quite

simply, everyone has a downward trend. Sorry, Mike Nesbitt has

picked up 0.9%. Fine. That is not a downward trend. I think the Green

Party is up and the TUV is up. All the other major parties are under

pressure except for the Ulster Unionist party. We have the

potential to build and buy them in the process of rebuilding. It is not

going to happen overnight. When I got elected I said it would take

four or five years. The SDLP is more concerned about what they can

produce and what they can deliver going forward than the numbers. The

biggest party does not always deliver the best results. How does

point the -- how the 0.9% Mike Nesbitt sound? Our target was 78, we

got 88. Gregory should be lucky and thankful we only got 0.9% swing,

because if we have got more than that, we would be wiping the DUP

out. You took a little nibble out around the age. The -- around the

edge. My good colleague who got elected for the last time received a

tweet today saying that he could not annoy -- saying that you could not

annoying us today. That is just step one. What happens now is the mark

let's talk about PACs and the broader Unionist position. The --

what happens now? It has to be on your radar at this stage. The only

thing on the radar at this stage Army is tomorrow. Then we will look

at it. The -- at this stage before me. It is important to get Jim

across the line and then analyse the results. If you look at the results

he got in Belfast, you will realise that Peter Robinson was talking

nonsense yesterday. He got the big results in East Belfast? Jim Rogers

and Sonia Copeland, two Ulster Unionists. If there is going to be a

United candidate it is going to be in Ulster Unionists. Peter Robinson

is not going to win the seat back next year. He has made it clear he

is not going to stand again. The DUP lusted for unionism (and they are

not going to win it back -- got lost it for unionism last time and they

are not going to win it back. You cannot pretend you are not thinking

about issues like PACs in East Belfast and maybe Fermanagh. Of

course you are. You think I can't sit here and deny that? You just

indicated it was in your mind. You made an opening page! I have not.

I'd just stated the facts that there will be a full analysis. Did that

sound like a pitch for an Ulster Unionists agreed candidate to you? I

think 0.9% Nesbitt needs to go back. You are minus .04% if you want to

play that game. Looking at people trying to turn a minus into a plus,

I am not going to do that, but let's look at this, Naomi's totally

disgraceful comments right now, they indicate where the pressure is

coming towards Naomi. If we look at the overall the gears, you can talk

about single candidates topping the poll -- overall figures. Would you

have to do is look at the number of votes for each party in east Belfast

and you do not come out with Alliance Party being top, that is

absolutely crystal clear, and what she said about Gavin Robinson was

disgraceful and incorrect, and I think she should with draw it

unequivocally. I'm sorry, I was at his acceptance speech in City Hall

last night when he made his opening pitch and pleaded with the other

Unionists to side with the DUP. That was very clear. I was in the room

and I've heard that. It was begging. More importantly... Let's hear what

she has to say. I wonder what the people of East Belfast make of it

this morning, because with absolute disregard for their vote. When I was

elected, Peter Robinson said that I had borrowed the seat, ignoring the

popular mandate that I had received from the electorate. Now we have to

Unionist parties bickering over which of them will tell the people

of East doth asked who to elect. I have more confidence in the people

of East Belfast. The -- East Belfast who to elect. I will work the seat

as they have over the last four years over the next year, and I

believe that I will leave it in the hands of the people of East Belfast,

but when it comes to a fair fight, Ivy League Alliance is as likely to

the -- as anyone else the -- I believe Alliance is as likely as

anyone else to take the seat. You are not the latest party in East

Belfast. Through this discussion on. You are a counsellor to one of the

new super councils. How difficult is it going to be on the ground for

these new councils to actually make important decisions on important

issues? You are going to have more responsibilities than you had in the

past and there is quite a bit of fragmentation. There now is greater

representation for the TUV, for UKIP, the Green Party, and your

party leader yesterday, on our coverage, told me he had no

confidence whatsoever in the SDLP, so you can't even get on with your

fellow nationalists. I want to bring it back to the last point. As a

voter in East golf asked, we have a current MP the -- East Belfast, and

we have a current MP and he is being attacked. The gallery is being

played to. I don't think Peter Robinson or Gavin Robinson or anyone

else has done that and they think they should. With the greatest of

respect, they are not here to defend themselves. They have been clear

that have condemned... Totally and unequivocally. Why can't the DUP

stand on the same road with Tammy Long questionnaire it is a pity for

the people across the -- with Naomi Long? It is a pity for the people of

East Belfast. They might have had reasons not to go but they made

clear their condemnation. Maybe you had reasons to go but not the -- but

let's not go down that road. I don't think the First Minister would say

that he didn't... In terms of the councils... Exactly. Let's deal with

the issue of the councils. I think even without the formation of the

super councils, Belfast city Council, despite the ad press in

recent times, have proven what we can deliver. The -- bad press. We

have delivered an investment plan that is making an impact across the

city and we have delivered 200 additional jobs across the city

Council. In many ways, the new counsel will relish the opportunity

and we will have to take some time to find our feet. I think the

parties have proven we can work together and I think it will make

for an interesting counsel. Under that management was not great in

certain places. We have a people before profit counsellor in West

Belfast at the expense of a Sinn Fein counsellor, an independent

Republican who is an arch critic of a Sinn Fein president political and

peace progress. Did you get it wrong? In Belfast, it is no mean

feat to get the counsellor 's election -- elected anyway that we

did. In Gary, you are talking about someone who is opposed to the

political and peace strategy, and along time we have been the -- and

for a long time we have been encouraging them. You have been

encouraging them in not getting elected. Gary has a mandate. You

have been saying that these people represent no-one and don't have a

mandate. I will say this, we have been saying this to the media quite

sick the -- consistently, the next time there is an incident like this,

maybe a microphone could be but into these purposes it is as opposed to

Sinn Fein. How do you think these new councils are going to work? How

much cooperation will there be on the ground between Sinn Fein and the

STL P, whenever Gerry Adams is a -- said what he did yesterday. Your

colleague was incensed by that. I think it is time to move on into the

future. A lot of people in Sinn Fein do not have much confidence in Gerry

Adams, to be quite blunt, but that is a matter for them to sort out. He

fled West Belfast and had not done very much for 20 years. He fled, did

the chicken run on that when he found out that he was being run out

of West Belfast. The point is this, the point is that we have to go

forward from here. These new councils, we have to put forward a

partnership, and there have to be partnerships at all levels, and

those partnerships should not be thought of that they should be

partnerships for the benefit of people. The -- should not be... They

should be for the partnerships for the benefit of people. People are

looking for a bit more social justice, they are looking for

prosperity, and none of those things have fully emerged yet. The councils

have a major problem. They are not as important as Stormont. The

councils have an opportunity to facilitate a lot of development and

a lot of the quality of life at local level, and we all have an

obligation around this table and Gregory as well, we all have an

obligation to deliver for the people there. It is about the product that

we put out, not ourselves. Is that going to happen on the ground? Will

that work? Will these new councils deal with these issues, or are

Unionists going to go in there and make a big issue of flying the Union

flag and talking about locking mechanisms? The constitutional

issues... What we should be focusing on his education, the economy,

health and housing, the things that affect people when they wake up in

the morning and frustrate them when they go to bed at night. We have to

cooperate not just with unionists, but with the SDLP, Sinn Fein,

Alliance, we have to deliver for other people. You are happy with the

constitutional position and that it is settled, and that the flying as

the -- flag is flying a properly, you are OK with that, but if it is

not, you get vexed. Some people get it set about it and some are more

lax 's get upset about it and some are more relaxed. It is important --

upset about it and some are of about your happy with designated days to

stop I have talked about designated plus, a number of days rate is

appropriate when you can... I am not here today to talk about

the flag. And here to deliver. We have taken our candidates and we

have been offering them advice on planning powers, which is the

biggest single new power, economic development, we are going to

continue to work with experts to power up our counselors. I

understand that. Gregory, are you going to take a relaxed attitude to

the flying of flags in these new councils? I do not think I agree

with him and I do not think he should get obsessed with the flag.

In the capital city, the flag should fly every day of the year, and that

all of the other councils, the flag should fly as many days as possible.

This is what happens in the rest of the UK. But let's not concentrate on

flags. Will that not be an issue for the DB best record DUP? -- for the

time two? Are you saying you will be moderation all around? We tend to go

for the maximum output for unionism, and that is what we will do. Let's

get back... Our position has been to utterly condemn violence and we

don't take lessons from Sinn Fein and became more strongly condemn

Sinn Fein for their past record. Naomi, I want to give you the final

words on the flag issue. Are you hopeful that that is going to be

dealt with quickly and easily, or could it be, the book that these new

councils get caught on? I hope it does not, and that is why in the

house process and the local government reform bill in the

Assembly we try to resolve that issue so it would not become a

sticking block in all of the councils. What the flag issue has

done, and I've think both parties need to think about this, it has

breathed new life into the pan two, and that is not good for the Ulster

Unionists. The -- the DUP. Thank you for your contributions.

There's no question that politics, and the election in particular,

dominated the past week, and while some people might look on from the

sidelines with cynics' eyes, for those involved in putting their

names on the ballot papers it can be an emotional time, as this look back

demonstrates very well. A final word from Rick Wilford.

Let's talk briefly about whether or not some prounion approach to pack

making is likely to be on the agenda. I think the door is open at

this stage in I suspect probably in the wake of the results tomorrow at

the European election, I think there will be some... The Westminster

election is going to be a real bear pit. I'd expect they will do the

same in South Belfast. The door is ajar. Every politician you talk to

seems to be for the happy about how things went. There have been no

catastrophes. A small earthquake in Chile, that is the way someone could

sum it up. There are winners and losers. The important thing is a

tone of the new local councils, the super councils. If it takes from

what is going on at the top, as dictating the tone, you get this

trickle down politics, which is very sour, bitter, and I think that is

not going to fix the smooth take-off and transition. If, on the other

hand, there is a determination among the parties to work in a bottom-up

way and trying to engage in politics, then maybe... As my

grandfather used to say, we live in hope and die in despair. What can we

expect from the results tomorrow? Same and three. I've think Alex

Atwood will lose out. Acting table of votes will go to the -- I think

many of its will go to Jim Nicholson.

That's it for now. Join me tomorrow for all the latest on the European

election count from the King's Hall from 2:15pm on BBC Two. Until then,

from everyone in the team, goodbye. Voting has taken place

in the European Parliament election and BBC News NI will bring you the

results live from the count centre. With reaction, expert analysis

and a chance to have your say,