Browse content similar to 24/01/2016. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Jeremy Corbyn calls on Britain to accept more refugees and economic | :00:38. | :00:45. | |
migrants, as the Port of Calais is forced to close overnight | :00:46. | :00:49. | |
after migrants attempted to force their way onto a Channel ferry. | :00:50. | :00:54. | |
David Cameron appears increasingly confident he'll bag a deal on EU | :00:55. | :00:57. | |
reform next month, including new measures to reduce EU migration | :00:58. | :01:00. | |
In the first of three Sunday Politics debates, | :01:01. | :01:06. | |
the leave and remain campaigns go head-to-head on immigration. | :01:07. | :01:10. | |
And speaking exclusively to this programme, Ed Miliband's former | :01:11. | :01:15. | |
pollster Deborah Mattinson criticises Labour's official report | :01:16. | :01:19. | |
into why the party lost the general election for failing to face up | :01:20. | :01:22. | |
I think it was a whitewash and a massive missed opportunity. | :01:23. | :01:29. | |
And in Northern Ireland: Despite welfare mitigations, | :01:30. | :01:30. | |
it seems some benefits claimants will lose out | :01:31. | :01:32. | |
So have our politicians abandoned those most in need? | :01:33. | :01:37. | |
-- the conservative's Mayor candidate has now launched his | :01:38. | :01:51. | |
action plan. And with me, as always, | :01:52. | :01:52. | |
the best and the brightest political panel in the business - | :01:53. | :01:54. | |
Nick Watt, Beth Rigby and Janan They'll be tweeting | :01:55. | :01:57. | |
throughout the programme So, the Port of Calais was forced | :01:58. | :01:59. | |
to close for a while yesterday after migrants managed to breach | :02:00. | :02:06. | |
security and board a ferry. Amateur footage captured | :02:07. | :02:09. | |
the moment a group managed to break through security fences and head | :02:10. | :02:12. | |
towards the P ferry. The incident happened | :02:13. | :02:14. | |
during a protest at the port, The head of the Road Haulage | :02:15. | :02:16. | |
Association here in Britain has renewed demands for the French | :02:17. | :02:20. | |
military to intervene. As it happens, | :02:21. | :02:22. | |
the Labour leader, Jeremy Corbyn, was in northern France yesterday, | :02:23. | :02:24. | |
visiting the migrant camps While he was there, | :02:25. | :02:26. | |
he reiterated his calls for the British Government to do | :02:27. | :02:31. | |
more to help migrants. I talk to people all over | :02:32. | :02:37. | |
the country and not everyone is that cold-hearted, not everyone | :02:38. | :02:40. | |
else has a stony heart. They are prepared to reach out, | :02:41. | :02:44. | |
and I think we need a response And indeed Germany has | :02:45. | :02:47. | |
done an enormous amount, other countries have | :02:48. | :02:53. | |
done varying amounts, and I think we should | :02:54. | :02:56. | |
be part of helping to bring a European-wide support | :02:57. | :02:59. | |
to people, and that's what I'm Jeremy Corbyn yesterday. Beth, what | :03:00. | :03:12. | |
we make of the story, the government will allow unaccompanied children | :03:13. | :03:17. | |
refugees, already in Europe, to come into Britain? Some of my government | :03:18. | :03:23. | |
sources have suggested that is not what David Cameron would like to do, | :03:24. | :03:26. | |
if you think about how he dealt with the crisis in August, he said we | :03:27. | :03:30. | |
will take some Syrian refugees but we will take them from the camps in | :03:31. | :03:35. | |
Syria and around Syria, we will not take them from Calais, because he | :03:36. | :03:39. | |
thinks this is a push factor and it makes people come over. What the | :03:40. | :03:44. | |
government might end up doing, they might agree to take refugee children | :03:45. | :03:50. | |
unaccompanied, but only from Syria and the Middle East, not from | :03:51. | :03:54. | |
Calais. What about the kids who have made it here? They could be bad way. | :03:55. | :04:02. | |
Nick? The signals on government, they have not made any decisions yet | :04:03. | :04:06. | |
and the announcement is not imminent, but Beth makes a very | :04:07. | :04:10. | |
important point, the Prime Minister said you do not want to encourage | :04:11. | :04:13. | |
people to make that journey, therefore the instinct is to take | :04:14. | :04:15. | |
people from the neighbouring countries. Apart from unaccompanied | :04:16. | :04:21. | |
kids, they have come across in terrible conditions, and they are in | :04:22. | :04:26. | |
Calais and Dunkirk. The call to take these children, from that report, | :04:27. | :04:30. | |
that says that is a fair proportion of the 26,000 unaccompanied children | :04:31. | :04:33. | |
that have come to Europe. The figures in that report are | :04:34. | :04:39. | |
terrifying, in 2014, of the 13,000 unaccompanied children that ended up | :04:40. | :04:44. | |
in Italy, 3000 went missing, and of the African children that went to | :04:45. | :04:48. | |
Italy, half of them had been subject to some form of sexual abuse, it is | :04:49. | :04:54. | |
the most horrific figures. That 3000 figure, endorsed by Jeremy Corbyn, | :04:55. | :05:01. | |
also endorsed by the cross-party International Development Select | :05:02. | :05:03. | |
Committee, said there is edible pressure on the Prime Minister on | :05:04. | :05:08. | |
this one. -- formidable. The humanitarian case has been strongly | :05:09. | :05:12. | |
but by Jeremy Corbyn and others, but it is marginal. 3000 children, that | :05:13. | :05:17. | |
would be great for them, but 37,000 migrants have come to Greece in | :05:18. | :05:24. | |
January alone, and the mud has not even ended, ten times the number | :05:25. | :05:29. | |
that came in last January -- the month. The problem is getting bigger | :05:30. | :05:35. | |
and bigger, and the response has been wholly inadequate. It has, it | :05:36. | :05:39. | |
looks marginal, but that is about as much as you can expect, until there | :05:40. | :05:46. | |
is EU wide agreement about how to distribute what you might call the | :05:47. | :05:50. | |
burden of the influx, but there is nothing close to that agreement and | :05:51. | :05:53. | |
there's not even a deal between the EU and Turkey about ceiling borders | :05:54. | :05:58. | |
and dealing with human traffickers let alone a deal within the EU about | :05:59. | :06:02. | |
which country bears how much of the burden. Until then, you just have | :06:03. | :06:07. | |
these improvised solutions, 3000 here, France taking a bit more, and | :06:08. | :06:11. | |
there is no certainty that the unaccompanied children are | :06:12. | :06:15. | |
overwhelmingly Syrian, there is the suspicion that Syrians travel as | :06:16. | :06:19. | |
complete families and the unaccompanied children are | :06:20. | :06:25. | |
disproportionately from Somalia, for example, similarly distress, but not | :06:26. | :06:28. | |
the problem that they think they are dealing with. This plays into the | :06:29. | :06:32. | |
referendum question, there is the nervousness in the in campaign, that | :06:33. | :06:37. | |
a referendum in September, after a summer of large sums of migrants | :06:38. | :06:41. | |
coming in, kids or otherwise, would affect the result one way or | :06:42. | :06:45. | |
another. That is a big story, and we will come back to that at the end of | :06:46. | :06:47. | |
the show. Last week, the long-awaited autopsy | :06:48. | :06:49. | |
into Labour's defeat at the general The report by Margaret Beckett | :06:50. | :06:52. | |
concluded that Ed Miliband wasn't judged to be as strong a leader | :06:53. | :06:57. | |
as David Cameron, and that Labour had failed to shake off the myth | :06:58. | :07:00. | |
that Labour was responsible But parallel research was also | :07:01. | :07:03. | |
commissioned to inform the Beckett Report, | :07:04. | :07:06. | |
and despite being completed in July, The former Labour pollster | :07:07. | :07:08. | |
Deborah Mattinson carried out this research, and has spoken exclusively | :07:09. | :07:12. | |
to the Sunday Politics. We are saying the Conservatives | :07:13. | :07:15. | |
are the largest party. We all know what happened | :07:16. | :07:26. | |
on election night. Instead of a hung parliament, | :07:27. | :07:28. | |
David Cameron walked back into Downing Street | :07:29. | :07:32. | |
with a majority of 12. Labour got it wrong, as well, | :07:33. | :07:35. | |
suffering a net loss of 26 Friends, this is not the speech | :07:36. | :07:38. | |
I wanted to give today. Ed Miliband resigned | :07:39. | :07:42. | |
within hours, but it has taken eight and a half | :07:43. | :07:45. | |
months for the party to publish its own inquiry | :07:46. | :07:48. | |
into what went wrong. Margaret Beckett's report is called | :07:49. | :07:52. | |
Learning The Lessons From Defeat. It doesn't, says one pollster, | :07:53. | :07:56. | |
who has worked for several former I think it was a whitewash | :07:57. | :08:00. | |
and a massive missed opportunity. Just a few weeks after the election | :08:01. | :08:05. | |
defeat, Deborah Mattinson was commissioned | :08:06. | :08:08. | |
by the acting leader Harriet Harman to research | :08:09. | :08:11. | |
why Labour lost. She says the evidence was meant | :08:12. | :08:13. | |
to feed into the Beckett I did brief Margaret | :08:14. | :08:15. | |
Beckett so I was somewhat disappointed not to see some | :08:16. | :08:21. | |
of that reflected back. Yes, I think she picked up | :08:22. | :08:24. | |
on the economy but there was actually no analysis, | :08:25. | :08:27. | |
it is reduced effectively to one And there is a lot of quite | :08:28. | :08:30. | |
defensive stuff about the fact this does not necessarily | :08:31. | :08:40. | |
mean that anti-austerity is wrong. "Of course we had a great business | :08:41. | :08:43. | |
strategy, what a pity the voters "That was probably | :08:44. | :08:46. | |
the fault of the media". Quite apologetic, | :08:47. | :08:50. | |
lots of defensive stuff in there, but nothing that actually | :08:51. | :08:54. | |
really shone a light on what had Do you accept that when Labour | :08:55. | :08:57. | |
was last in power it No, I don't, and I know | :08:58. | :09:01. | |
you might not agree with that Margaret Beckett's report | :09:02. | :09:06. | |
acknowledges that Labour failed to shake what she | :09:07. | :09:14. | |
describes as the myth that the party caused | :09:15. | :09:16. | |
the financial crisis. But she concludes that Labour | :09:17. | :09:18. | |
was not seen as anti-aspiration Deborah Mattinson says that | :09:19. | :09:22. | |
for people in her focus groups Frankly, they did not trust Labour | :09:23. | :09:25. | |
to manage the economy effectively, they were very | :09:26. | :09:30. | |
concerned about that. In their minds, they | :09:31. | :09:33. | |
are seeing a conflation between the financial crisis, | :09:34. | :09:38. | |
which they do blame Labour for, rightly or wrongly, | :09:39. | :09:44. | |
and their sense that Labour would waste money, | :09:45. | :09:45. | |
their money, and run the economy Voters could not see | :09:46. | :09:48. | |
him as Prime Minister. But Margaret Beckett | :09:49. | :09:55. | |
concluded that Ed Miliband faced an exceptionally | :09:56. | :09:59. | |
vitriolic and personal attack People looked at Ed Miliband | :10:00. | :10:02. | |
and did not see him And if you look at every | :10:03. | :10:07. | |
election since the 70s, what we see, the party that has | :10:08. | :10:12. | |
the leader with the best ratings is the party that wins, | :10:13. | :10:15. | |
there is no exception to that. I get it, that people weren't | :10:16. | :10:19. | |
prejudiced against immigration, I get it and I understand | :10:20. | :10:22. | |
the need to change. The Beckett Report acknowledges that | :10:23. | :10:28. | |
Labour did not quite get it on issues like immigration | :10:29. | :10:31. | |
and benefits, and that the fear of the SNP propping up a minority | :10:32. | :10:35. | |
government scared off many voters. But Deborah Mattinson says Labour | :10:36. | :10:46. | |
was losing support in Scotland well before the independence referendum | :10:47. | :10:54. | |
and the surge in SNP support. Put simply, she said | :10:55. | :10:57. | |
voters did not feel that Labour was on their side, | :10:58. | :10:59. | |
and the party still does not I feel very concerned | :11:00. | :11:05. | |
that the lessons will be learned and I can't see how | :11:06. | :11:13. | |
they will be learned, because that was the vehicle, | :11:14. | :11:16. | |
that was the moment, and if this report does not address | :11:17. | :11:19. | |
those issues then I'm not No political party has a divine | :11:20. | :11:21. | |
right to exist and unless Labour really listens to those voters, | :11:22. | :11:26. | |
that it must persuade, it stands no chance | :11:27. | :11:28. | |
of winning the next election. And we've been joined by the former | :11:29. | :11:30. | |
Shadow Cabinet minister Michael Dugher - you might remember | :11:31. | :11:33. | |
he was sacked by Jeremy Corbyn Deborah Mattinson says the better | :11:34. | :11:40. | |
report is a whitewash, is she right? -- Beckett Report. That is a bit | :11:41. | :11:46. | |
harsh, does it have all the answers, though, of course not, and I think | :11:47. | :11:49. | |
Deborah Mattinson make some very fair observations in that piece, but | :11:50. | :11:54. | |
what Margaret concludes in her report, it is not a massive shock to | :11:55. | :11:58. | |
those of us that were knocking on doors last May and have thought long | :11:59. | :12:02. | |
and hard about it since, we were not trusted enough on the economy, and | :12:03. | :12:05. | |
that was the big issue, but also on immigration and welfare, we were | :12:06. | :12:09. | |
seen as out of touch, and also leadership being the most important | :12:10. | :12:13. | |
thing in any race. She makes those conclusions, in the report, and I | :12:14. | :12:18. | |
think the key thing now, is to listen to the issues that she | :12:19. | :12:21. | |
raises, but also listen to Debra and many others who have made a | :12:22. | :12:24. | |
contribution since the report came out. We have got to face up to the | :12:25. | :12:29. | |
difficult issues as to why we lost, if we are going to win again. Voters | :12:30. | :12:34. | |
found Ed Miliband the personification of the Labour brand, | :12:35. | :12:37. | |
that was the problem, well-meaning but ineffectual. I'm likely to | :12:38. | :12:43. | |
deliver -- and likely to deliver on promises. Did you detect that at the | :12:44. | :12:49. | |
time? I was very close to Ed Miliband and I gave him some advice, | :12:50. | :12:53. | |
some of which he took and some of which he didn't. I wanted him to be | :12:54. | :12:57. | |
a success, I saw him in private and you have strong he did beat, and | :12:58. | :13:02. | |
often he got very unfair coverage in the media and often he did not do | :13:03. | :13:06. | |
himself justice in his performances -- I saw him in private and how | :13:07. | :13:10. | |
strong he did beat. The real lesson here, for any lead at the Labour | :13:11. | :13:16. | |
Party can you have got to play to your strengths and you have got a | :13:17. | :13:21. | |
fundamentally address your perceived weaknesses. The private polling | :13:22. | :13:27. | |
showed the Tories were in the late, was that not a warning that things | :13:28. | :13:31. | |
were going wrong? -- in the lead. I'm not sure how much private | :13:32. | :13:36. | |
polling I was shown. You did not see this? The year before the election, | :13:37. | :13:42. | |
I was appointed Shadow Secretary of State for Transport, I was not so | :13:43. | :13:45. | |
much part of the central operations and I did not see private polling. | :13:46. | :13:51. | |
Many of us thought that we were getting difficult conversations on | :13:52. | :13:54. | |
the doorstep, but we were told consistently, including by the | :13:55. | :13:57. | |
pollsters, that we were neck and neck and there was a perception that | :13:58. | :14:00. | |
we were doing better in the marginals, as well. That turned out | :14:01. | :14:04. | |
to be catastrophically wrong, but one of the things that is not in | :14:05. | :14:09. | |
Margaret's report is about the organisational lessons, that does | :14:10. | :14:13. | |
speak, if you have a million conversations, what are you doing | :14:14. | :14:17. | |
with the data? I remember in the last two days of the campaign, I was | :14:18. | :14:21. | |
sent to Derbyshire, Amber Valley, and in Yorkshire, to Rothwell, but I | :14:22. | :14:26. | |
should have been sent to Morley to help Ed Balls, and Derby North to | :14:27. | :14:31. | |
help Chris Wood this. The campaign has got to base what they do on the | :14:32. | :14:37. | |
information, and in 2010 we took very hard decisions, six months away | :14:38. | :14:40. | |
from polling day, based on the information we had about prioritise | :14:41. | :14:44. | |
in resources, but are not sure that happens this time. -- I'm not sure. | :14:45. | :14:52. | |
Deborah Mattinson looks at the boundary changes before the next | :14:53. | :15:03. | |
election, and she thinks the Beckett Report made a failure to confront | :15:04. | :15:09. | |
why you lost enough. Her conclusion is this, Labour's future is in | :15:10. | :15:15. | |
profound jeopardy - is it? I think we have a massive challenge at the | :15:16. | :15:19. | |
next election. I don't think any political party has a right to be | :15:20. | :15:25. | |
successful in the future. I am an optimistic person. Labour, when we | :15:26. | :15:29. | |
have got our act together, when we have been in touch with the public | :15:30. | :15:34. | |
we have shown we can win. Is Labour's continued existence a | :15:35. | :15:43. | |
question mark? We have got to start getting in touch with the public. | :15:44. | :15:49. | |
One thing the report did slightly skirt around, the question over | :15:50. | :16:01. | |
politics as an identity. People like myself have been banging on about | :16:02. | :16:05. | |
this, not just in the weeks before the election but for months and | :16:06. | :16:10. | |
years before, and we need to face up to that. No political party has a | :16:11. | :16:14. | |
right to exist, but I think if Labour gets our act together, if we | :16:15. | :16:21. | |
stop picking fights with ourselves, if we face up to the difficult | :16:22. | :16:25. | |
issues in this report and elsewhere, we can be successful in the future. | :16:26. | :16:32. | |
In what ways, as things stand at the moment, what ways will Labour be | :16:33. | :16:37. | |
better, in better shape, under Jeremy Corbyn heading into the 2020 | :16:38. | :16:41. | |
election than it was in the 2015 election? What is one of the main | :16:42. | :16:47. | |
conclusions from the Beckett Report, it said we did make some gains, | :16:48. | :16:56. | |
1.5%, but we were stacking up area -- support in areas where we were | :16:57. | :17:01. | |
already strong. If they think you are out of touch on immigration and | :17:02. | :17:05. | |
welfare, you had better start talking about immigration and | :17:06. | :17:10. | |
welfare. Jeremy Corbyn seems to want almost no limit on immigration, it | :17:11. | :17:16. | |
is hard to detect if he would have any limits, and he is rather against | :17:17. | :17:24. | |
welfare reforms. I'm not sure that is an election winning strategy. On | :17:25. | :17:29. | |
immigration, I made this point to him, you have got to understand this | :17:30. | :17:35. | |
is the second biggest issue nationally, it is the biggest issue | :17:36. | :17:38. | |
in many constituencies including mine, and I said that many of the | :17:39. | :17:47. | |
answers are about stopping pressure on wages and conditions. There are | :17:48. | :17:51. | |
good centre-left solutions to these problems, about Europe dividing more | :17:52. | :17:58. | |
help for communities facing these changes. I made the point to him, on | :17:59. | :18:03. | |
welfare he is right to say we should be standing up to help the most | :18:04. | :18:08. | |
vulnerable, but in my experience you only get heard on those issues if | :18:09. | :18:12. | |
the public think you are for real in terms of wanting to be tough on | :18:13. | :18:16. | |
people who are frankly making decisions not to go into work so you | :18:17. | :18:21. | |
have got to get the balance right. Do you accept, given his huge | :18:22. | :18:26. | |
support among party members, that Jeremy Corbyn will lead you into the | :18:27. | :18:32. | |
next election? He faces a big test in May. We have seen the polls and | :18:33. | :18:39. | |
the ratings, any big test is a real election. He faces a big test | :18:40. | :18:43. | |
because he was clear that a left-wing agenda is the key to | :18:44. | :18:47. | |
transforming our fortunes in Scotland, I hope he's right. We need | :18:48. | :18:51. | |
to win in London but we have got to show we can make big gains in the | :18:52. | :18:55. | |
rest of London as well and we have got to hold onto power in Wales as | :18:56. | :19:01. | |
well. But even if he fails these tests, do you think there will be an | :19:02. | :19:06. | |
attempt to remove him? We have got to get behind Jeremy and he has got | :19:07. | :19:12. | |
to show us that he can deliver and turn things around. We need to get | :19:13. | :19:17. | |
behind him. People are very clear about what Jeremy stands for. He has | :19:18. | :19:28. | |
achieved remarkable cut throughs. Over the next few months we will see | :19:29. | :19:31. | |
more of that so he has got to be given a chance because he has a huge | :19:32. | :19:35. | |
mandate by the party members but he has got to show he can turn that | :19:36. | :19:39. | |
into real support from the public. That means also winning the support | :19:40. | :19:44. | |
of people who voted Conservative last time. It is not an easy | :19:45. | :19:48. | |
challenge, we are behind him in that but he has got to show he can learn | :19:49. | :19:53. | |
the lessons that Margaret Beckett has talked about and Debra and | :19:54. | :19:58. | |
others as well. We have got to stop it there, thank you. | :19:59. | :20:00. | |
The hole Labour is in is deepest in Scotland, where the once-mighty | :20:01. | :20:03. | |
party now holds just one Westminster seat. | :20:04. | :20:05. | |
If Jeremy Corbyn is to win the general election in 2020, | :20:06. | :20:07. | |
he needs to claw back support from the SNP, | :20:08. | :20:10. | |
and the first test of his appeal north of the border is coming up | :20:11. | :20:13. | |
fast in elections to the Scottish parliament in May. | :20:14. | :20:15. | |
Speaking to Andrew Marr this morning, the leader of the SNP took | :20:16. | :20:18. | |
aim at Mr Corbyn, criticising a plan he's floated | :20:19. | :20:22. | |
to keep Britain's Trident submarines minus their nuclear warheads. | :20:23. | :20:25. | |
I wonder what you made of Jeremy Corbyn's suggestion that | :20:26. | :20:28. | |
you could keep the Trident submarines, therefore keep the jobs | :20:29. | :20:30. | |
in Scotland, but not have nuclear missiles on them. | :20:31. | :20:33. | |
I think it was ridiculous and I think it's a sign of just how | :20:34. | :20:37. | |
tortured these debates are becoming within the Labour Party. | :20:38. | :20:39. | |
On Trident, I agree with Jeremy Corbyn. | :20:40. | :20:41. | |
I'm not in favour of the renewal of Trident, and we might have a vote | :20:42. | :20:45. | |
on that in the House of Commons sooner rather than later. | :20:46. | :20:49. | |
I think the real challenge for Jeremy Corbyn is, | :20:50. | :20:56. | |
can he get his party into the position he wants it to be | :20:57. | :20:59. | |
in so we can have any chance at all of stopping | :21:00. | :21:02. | |
For Labour to sit on the fence on this issue or have a free vote | :21:03. | :21:06. | |
on this issue will leave them without a shred of credibility. | :21:07. | :21:10. | |
And I've been joined now by the Shadow Scottish Secretary, | :21:11. | :21:13. | |
Let's pick up on the point from Nicola Sturgeon about Trident. In | :21:14. | :21:24. | |
Scotland the electoral choice on this is clear, if you are unilateral | :21:25. | :21:31. | |
disarmament, you vote SNP. You couldn't vote Labour on this issue | :21:32. | :21:34. | |
because people don't know what you stand for. The Labour Party has been | :21:35. | :21:40. | |
clear, a motion was passed almost unanimously to reject the renewal of | :21:41. | :21:45. | |
Trident on that policy basis. But it is not party policy. There is a | :21:46. | :21:52. | |
policy review happening at the moment so the Scottish Labour | :21:53. | :21:56. | |
Party's policy on this is clear. It is a Scottish election don't forget. | :21:57. | :22:04. | |
These Trident issues are diverting us away from big issues of policy in | :22:05. | :22:09. | |
terms of public services. The Deborah Mattinson research found | :22:10. | :22:17. | |
Scottish voters felt abandoned by the Labour Party. When did Labour | :22:18. | :22:21. | |
start taking Scottish voters for granted? It has been clear from a | :22:22. | :22:26. | |
number of reports that have been done that there has been a process | :22:27. | :22:30. | |
in the party where we have not devolved the party as much as | :22:31. | :22:37. | |
Scotland. The Scottish party, in 1999 it was a tremendous opportunity | :22:38. | :22:40. | |
for the Scottish Labour Party but I don't think we have caught up with | :22:41. | :22:55. | |
that. I think under Kesia's leadership she is refreshing that. | :22:56. | :23:05. | |
You face further electoral disasters in Holyrood in May. No one is under | :23:06. | :23:13. | |
any illusion this will be a difficult election, but what Kesia | :23:14. | :23:20. | |
is trying to do is get a positive policy platform together, reconnect | :23:21. | :23:23. | |
with Scottish people, respond to what Scottish people have been | :23:24. | :23:27. | |
saying on the doorsteps, and she's doing that on the basis of | :23:28. | :23:31. | |
responding to what the Scottish people want. That's what people want | :23:32. | :23:37. | |
to have. What the Shadow Cabinet was told by your own election director | :23:38. | :23:44. | |
is that he expects you to lose all of your constituency MSPs, just as | :23:45. | :23:49. | |
you lost all of your constituency MPs bar you last May. What can you | :23:50. | :23:55. | |
do to avoid that? The important thing is to go back to Kezia | :23:56. | :24:06. | |
Dugdale's policy. She wants to change the policies of the Scottish | :24:07. | :24:11. | |
Labour Party in order for us to have a policy platform that is incredibly | :24:12. | :24:18. | |
positive. What is the most distinctive Scottish policy | :24:19. | :24:22. | |
initiative since Jeremy Corbyn became leader? This isn't about | :24:23. | :24:27. | |
Jeremy Corbyn, it is about Kezia Dugdale. We have helped to buy | :24:28. | :24:32. | |
scheme for first time buyers, we want to build 60,000 affordable | :24:33. | :24:37. | |
homes, we want to put the 50p tax rate back in to close the | :24:38. | :24:41. | |
educational attainment gap, they are just a few of the policies she has | :24:42. | :24:46. | |
announced already. She is one of the few people in this election campaign | :24:47. | :24:51. | |
actually talking about the policy issues of Scotland. Nobody is | :24:52. | :24:56. | |
talking about these kinds of issues. Do you think that collection | :24:57. | :24:59. | |
policies you have outlined are enough to stave off a further | :25:00. | :25:04. | |
electoral humiliation? It is just the start of a policy platform she | :25:05. | :25:08. | |
will be announcing in the run-up to the elections. Help to buy is a Tory | :25:09. | :25:16. | |
policy. This is about resolving a housing crisis that has been created | :25:17. | :25:20. | |
by an SNP government. We are not holding them to account because | :25:21. | :25:28. | |
people are obsessing over things like polls. The transport system is | :25:29. | :25:33. | |
creaking at the seams. This has got to be dealt with and there is a real | :25:34. | :25:37. | |
opportunity to talk about the powers the Scottish Government currently | :25:38. | :25:42. | |
has and new powers. Let's talk about tomorrow's Scotland. How much would | :25:43. | :25:48. | |
a top rate 50p tax for Scotland raised? Up to 10 million, depending | :25:49. | :25:54. | |
where you would have any change but every single penny would go into | :25:55. | :25:58. | |
educational attainment. When the Conservatives cut the tax rate to | :25:59. | :26:06. | |
45p, the Treasury were projecting it would cost ?3 billion a year to | :26:07. | :26:10. | |
satisfy. That was for the whole of the UK, so 60-110,000,000 is a lot | :26:11. | :26:17. | |
of money we can use to cut the educational attainment gap. Why is | :26:18. | :26:26. | |
Jeremy Corbyn not cutting much ice north of the border? He has won a | :26:27. | :26:30. | |
significant mandate within the party, he needs to win that now | :26:31. | :26:34. | |
within the country but what we are concentrating on now is Kezia | :26:35. | :26:41. | |
Dugdale as a new leader. I am interesting that you stress all the | :26:42. | :26:49. | |
time Kezia Dugdale, is Jeremy Corbyn and asset or a liability in May? He | :26:50. | :26:58. | |
is an asset because she wants us to invest in public services, he wants | :26:59. | :27:01. | |
to use the powers in the Scottish bill to transform the Scottish | :27:02. | :27:07. | |
Parliament... So why are the polls, if you have got Kezia Dugdale and | :27:08. | :27:15. | |
Jeremy Corbyn doing all the right things, why are the polls so dire | :27:16. | :27:21. | |
for you in Scotland? We will fight for every single vote and seat, we | :27:22. | :27:25. | |
fight to win every election but whilst we are talking about polls | :27:26. | :27:29. | |
and not holding the Scottish Government to account for a dreadful | :27:30. | :27:32. | |
record in Government for eight years and not talking about positive | :27:33. | :27:37. | |
policies being put forward, we will not get any traction in the polls. | :27:38. | :27:41. | |
Let's get this campaign onto real issues that ordinary Scots want to | :27:42. | :27:46. | |
talk about on the doorsteps, which is about holding the Government to | :27:47. | :27:50. | |
account for a dreadful track record, and get some policies on there that | :27:51. | :27:54. | |
says to the people the Scottish Labour Party has changed and we can | :27:55. | :28:00. | |
talk about tomorrow's Scotland and how we can transform people's lives. | :28:01. | :28:02. | |
Thank you. The huge influx of migrants | :28:03. | :28:05. | |
into the EU from Syria and elsewhere is putting the future | :28:06. | :28:08. | |
of the EU in "grave danger", that was the stark warning | :28:09. | :28:10. | |
from the French Prime Minister Tomorrow, EU interior ministers | :28:11. | :28:12. | |
will discuss a possible two-year suspension of the Schengen system | :28:13. | :28:16. | |
of passport-free travel. It all comes as David Cameron seeks | :28:17. | :28:17. | |
to put the finishing touches to a new deal for the UK | :28:18. | :28:20. | |
inside the EU before But how is the migrant crisis | :28:21. | :28:23. | |
affecting his renegotiation? Since January 2015, nearly 1.1 | :28:24. | :28:28. | |
million migrants have arrived in Europe, the vast | :28:29. | :28:31. | |
majority coming by sea. The International Monetary Fund | :28:32. | :28:33. | |
estimates that nearly 4 million migrants will have reached | :28:34. | :28:37. | |
the EU by the end of 2017. Tomorrow, EU interior ministers | :28:38. | :28:43. | |
will discuss a possible suspension of the passport-free Schengen area | :28:44. | :28:45. | |
and the re-introduction of border The EU is also considering tearing | :28:46. | :28:48. | |
up the so-called Dublin Convention and introducing a new dispersal | :28:49. | :28:57. | |
scheme to distribute migrants more It's an extra headache | :28:58. | :28:59. | |
for David Cameron as he seeks to renegotiate the terms | :29:00. | :29:06. | |
of our membership of the EU. The Prime Minister's preferred | :29:07. | :29:11. | |
option is a four-year ban on new EU migrant workers claiming | :29:12. | :29:14. | |
in-work benefits. But that's unlikely to satisfy many | :29:15. | :29:18. | |
Conservative backbenchers. Former Cabinet minister Liam Fox, | :29:19. | :29:22. | |
who has already said he will campaign to leave the EU, | :29:23. | :29:26. | |
said yesterday that he "didn't expect a British prime minister | :29:27. | :29:28. | |
to have to take the political begging bowl around the capitals | :29:29. | :29:32. | |
of Europe just to change our own Over the next three weekends | :29:33. | :29:35. | |
we will be staging three debates Joining me now to discuss | :29:36. | :29:42. | |
immigration and the EU are the Ukip MEP Diane James, who's campaigning | :29:43. | :29:47. | |
for Britain to leave the EU, and the Conservative MP | :29:48. | :29:49. | |
Damian Green, who supports The French prime ministers as the | :29:50. | :30:06. | |
future the EU is in grave danger, so why would we want to stay in it? -- | :30:07. | :30:12. | |
Prime Minister says. It is useful to as, it makes us safer and more | :30:13. | :30:15. | |
secure and more prosperous and therefore it is worth saving, from | :30:16. | :30:19. | |
our perspective and to the other member countries. Why does it make | :30:20. | :30:25. | |
us more secure? The way that we cooperate with other European | :30:26. | :30:28. | |
countries, the European institutions, things like the | :30:29. | :30:32. | |
European arrest warrant, data share, these are very useful to our police | :30:33. | :30:37. | |
and security services. We share data with the United States, as well. But | :30:38. | :30:41. | |
not on the same automatic basis as we do with Europe. There is | :30:42. | :30:46. | |
automatic sharing of intelligence between Britain and the United | :30:47. | :30:51. | |
States. There is can we have a separate treaty with them, it is not | :30:52. | :30:55. | |
as automatic and quick. -- there is, we have a separate treaty. We can | :30:56. | :30:59. | |
change information within minutes with other European countries, and | :31:00. | :31:07. | |
it takes days and weeks with other countries, and that means in cases | :31:08. | :31:13. | |
of terrorism and sadly we live in a dangerous world, with global | :31:14. | :31:17. | |
terrorism, that kind of European cooperation is increasingly | :31:18. | :31:25. | |
important. Diane, we face a migration crisis, what is your | :31:26. | :31:28. | |
solution, to turn Britain into a fortress Britain? No, it isn't, but | :31:29. | :31:35. | |
it is to regain border control for the United Kingdom, and that is a | :31:36. | :31:40. | |
position endorsed by a number of countries, and number of member | :31:41. | :31:44. | |
states across the EU, you have five countries which every imposed border | :31:45. | :31:48. | |
controls to some extent. There is still free movement of people. | :31:49. | :31:52. | |
France said last week they will extend their border control, their | :31:53. | :31:55. | |
passport control as an emergency measure because of the terrorist | :31:56. | :31:59. | |
attacks in Paris. Border control is needed because under the current | :32:00. | :32:05. | |
system freedom of movement, people, services, transport, that also means | :32:06. | :32:09. | |
freedom of movement for terrorists and weapons, that come from the | :32:10. | :32:13. | |
Balkan states. We don't have border controls? Yes, but not sufficient, | :32:14. | :32:17. | |
if someone comes in from the Mediterranean states or from the | :32:18. | :32:22. | |
Balkan states, they have gained entry into the European member zone. | :32:23. | :32:27. | |
They can't then move around. If they get their passport, ultimately... | :32:28. | :32:35. | |
That can take ten years. It is five years in Germany, it can be granted | :32:36. | :32:39. | |
sooner if the Dublin agreement is changed and asylum seekers get a | :32:40. | :32:43. | |
faster processing, they can then come to the United Kingdom. It is | :32:44. | :32:48. | |
not five years in Germany, it is a comment if you have a criminal | :32:49. | :32:52. | |
record, you can't get one, and the things that Niger Farage was saying | :32:53. | :32:56. | |
about the scenes in Cologne, that was wrong. -- Nigel. The out | :32:57. | :33:03. | |
campaign is saying that border controls are what we need, strong | :33:04. | :33:07. | |
border controls, and pulling out of Europe would have the practical | :33:08. | :33:10. | |
effect, our border controls which act have a, thanks to the treaty | :33:11. | :33:14. | |
with the French government, they would certainly come back to Dover | :33:15. | :33:19. | |
-- our border controls which we have at Calais. Migrants would find it | :33:20. | :33:23. | |
much easier to get to this country and claim asylum here. But if they | :33:24. | :33:29. | |
couldn't get in, they did not qualify, we would have the power to | :33:30. | :33:35. | |
deport them? We were, after a legal process, but they would be stopped | :33:36. | :33:39. | |
not at Calais, it would be at Dover, when they are in Britain, and once | :33:40. | :33:43. | |
they are here they can claim asylum and because we have proper legal | :33:44. | :33:47. | |
processes it takes a lot of time and expense to deal with that. He has | :33:48. | :33:51. | |
all the accused me of getting my facts wrong, but he has got his | :33:52. | :33:55. | |
facts wrong. The agreement in terms of stationing our teams and our | :33:56. | :33:59. | |
support staff and control, in the French ports, that is a France UK | :34:00. | :34:04. | |
agreement, it has nothing to do with the European Union. If you are | :34:05. | :34:08. | |
suggesting that the agreement between France and the United | :34:09. | :34:14. | |
Kingdom gets torn up because we leave the EU, that is fanciful and | :34:15. | :34:16. | |
misleading and I don't agree with you. France signed the treatment | :34:17. | :34:22. | |
with us as a fellow member of the EU and the French interior minister has | :34:23. | :34:26. | |
said that they would look at the treaty, of course it would be at | :34:27. | :34:29. | |
risk, do you think the people of Calais want that camp on their | :34:30. | :34:35. | |
doorstep? Of course not. The French are doing us a favour. How would the | :34:36. | :34:40. | |
renegotiation by the Prime Minister help address any of this? The area | :34:41. | :34:46. | |
of renegotiation and this is about the extra pull factor that comes | :34:47. | :34:50. | |
from the perception that the British benefits system is easier to access | :34:51. | :34:55. | |
compared with other countries, and therefore there are people coming | :34:56. | :35:00. | |
here simply to make the benefits system and I think what many people | :35:01. | :35:03. | |
think about immigration, they are moral axed about people coming here | :35:04. | :35:08. | |
to work and pay taxes but they don't like people coming to use the | :35:09. | :35:12. | |
welfare system -- they are more relaxed. But it has been said this | :35:13. | :35:18. | |
will not have a big impact, you might marginalise one pull factor, | :35:19. | :35:23. | |
but with rises in the national minimum wage, you have increased the | :35:24. | :35:27. | |
pull factor on the other hand. It's a boiler fairness, that is what -- | :35:28. | :35:33. | |
that is a boiler fairness, that is what people want... It is unlikely | :35:34. | :35:38. | |
to have a big impact. This will have very little impact on the numbers. I | :35:39. | :35:44. | |
think people can make a distinction between those who are coming here to | :35:45. | :35:48. | |
work, who benefit our economy and benefit all of us. But we have | :35:49. | :35:54. | |
agreed it is unlikely, even if it is fair, it is unlikely to have any | :35:55. | :35:56. | |
impact on the numbers. We don't know. The OBR has had a good guess. | :35:57. | :36:04. | |
They are guessing, it is a guess. Nigel Farage said he would cut | :36:05. | :36:10. | |
immigration even if that meant lower economic growth, do you agree? There | :36:11. | :36:15. | |
are two parts to your question, George Osborne has predicated his | :36:16. | :36:22. | |
fiscal strategy on high numbers of immigration, but we have done this | :36:23. | :36:26. | |
on individuals who come here on a points system to deliver real value | :36:27. | :36:29. | |
to this country, who are not subsidised by the tax credit option | :36:30. | :36:35. | |
and who actually meet the needs that we have in the United Kingdom, and | :36:36. | :36:40. | |
currently, as we know, we want engineers and medics and nurses and | :36:41. | :36:45. | |
lawyers. Ukip strategy has never been to stop those individuals | :36:46. | :36:48. | |
coming, but what we are saying, the impact of low skilled immigration on | :36:49. | :36:53. | |
this country is negative. That is our position. Even if it meant slow | :36:54. | :36:59. | |
economic growth, you would still cut the numbers? It would not mean | :37:00. | :37:06. | |
slower economic growth. We have made our position very clear in terms of | :37:07. | :37:10. | |
the value of the money that we would not be paying in terms of membership | :37:11. | :37:16. | |
of the EU, coming back to the United Kingdom's economy, and balancing the | :37:17. | :37:20. | |
whole position, that would be a positive for us as a country. The | :37:21. | :37:25. | |
Prime Minister has refused to leave a group of 40 Eurosceptic | :37:26. | :37:30. | |
backbenchers in the Conservative Party, who want to asking to do much | :37:31. | :37:36. | |
more. Should he not make them? The Prime Minister meets backbenchers | :37:37. | :37:39. | |
all the time. He has not meant this group, they wrote to him in November | :37:40. | :37:43. | |
and he has not met them. -- he has not met this group. Anyone who would | :37:44. | :37:48. | |
like to meet the Prime Minister has ample opportunities to do so, I'm a | :37:49. | :37:52. | |
backbencher, I can speak to the Prime Minister, and all of these | :37:53. | :37:56. | |
points have been raised. It is possible that this story is slightly | :37:57. | :38:02. | |
overblown. Thank you very much. We will be coming back to these stories | :38:03. | :38:04. | |
in the weeks ahead. And next week we'll be debating | :38:05. | :38:06. | |
the economic effects of leaving It's just gone 11.35, | :38:07. | :38:09. | |
you're watching the Sunday Politics. We say goodbye to viewers | :38:10. | :38:13. | |
in Scotland who leave us now Hello and welcome to Sunday Politics | :38:14. | :38:15. | |
in Northern Ireland. With the welfare mitigation | :38:16. | :38:32. | |
issue seemingly resolved, Or have politicians | :38:33. | :38:33. | |
abandoned the vulnerable? That's what I'll be asking | :38:34. | :38:39. | |
Sinn Fein and the SDLP. Plus, as Presbyterians discuss | :38:40. | :38:42. | |
the 1916 anniversaries, the Republic's Minister responsible | :38:43. | :38:47. | |
for the commemorations reveals her plans for | :38:48. | :38:49. | |
this landmark year. And with their thoughts | :38:50. | :38:51. | |
on all of that and more - Fionnuala O'Connor | :38:52. | :38:54. | |
and Paul Gosling... It once threatened the existence | :38:55. | :39:02. | |
of Stormont itself, but now the welfare issue has apparently | :39:03. | :39:06. | |
been put to bed with the publication of a report this week outlining how | :39:07. | :39:09. | |
mitigations will work. While the report was broadly | :39:10. | :39:12. | |
welcomed, it's clear some benefit recipients could lose out under | :39:13. | :39:15. | |
planned welfare changes. With me now is Sinn Fein's John | :39:16. | :39:19. | |
O'Dowd and the SDLP's Alex Sinn Fein's line was always that no | :39:20. | :39:22. | |
benefit recipient would be allowed It's clear people are going to lose | :39:23. | :39:27. | |
out despite those pledges... We were faced with a scenario. The | :39:28. | :39:42. | |
British government were going to take over welfare reform, the role | :39:43. | :39:51. | |
of the executive, it would have collapsed, so Sinn Fein have made a | :39:52. | :39:56. | |
correct decision. Concluding the peace process, should we collapse | :39:57. | :40:05. | |
the executive? You don't see that you were going to do that at one | :40:06. | :40:12. | |
point. Passing the legislation, more to do with timing than policy. In | :40:13. | :40:24. | |
terms of the journey, it is better balance with local politicians, | :40:25. | :40:31. | |
boundaries of appeals, and the report has set out it the measures, | :40:32. | :40:39. | |
existing nowhere else. You over promised. | :40:40. | :40:40. | |
Gerry Adams said in January 2015, one year ago... | :40:41. | :40:42. | |
"No one will have any benefit reduced which is under the authority | :40:43. | :40:45. | |
That was our key point on this issue." | :40:46. | :40:49. | |
Conor Murphy, December 2014: "What we've done is ensure | :40:50. | :40:51. | |
that those who suffer will be picked up by a system devised by us - | :40:52. | :40:54. | |
What we wanted to achieve, it has to be against the political reality. We | :40:55. | :41:08. | |
were involved in negotiation, with other parties, few of them committed | :41:09. | :41:16. | |
to bringing forward proposals, the issue has become so toxic, it was on | :41:17. | :41:23. | |
the day job collapsing political institutions. In the broader sense, | :41:24. | :41:28. | |
protecting public services, to maintain institutions. Did Sinn Fein | :41:29. | :41:42. | |
overpromise? If every person said that nobody was going to be losing | :41:43. | :41:51. | |
out, but now people are going to be, they overpromised. But it is the | :41:52. | :42:05. | |
preposterous idea, to travel, it is not a matter of policy, because of | :42:06. | :42:12. | |
that decision Sinn Fein, signing up to these benefit freezers, the Mike | :42:13. | :42:26. | |
-- freezes and this week, charity groups have been arguing against the | :42:27. | :42:35. | |
proposals, so not only as a bizarre place, in the year of 1916, | :42:36. | :42:44. | |
Republicans giving power back to London, it was the technicality, and | :42:45. | :42:48. | |
it has impact on citizens, when we could have control. The more | :42:49. | :42:56. | |
interesting question, what did the SDLP deliver? Nothing. Welcoming the | :42:57. | :43:11. | |
report. SDLP voted against the fresh start, and last week, against the | :43:12. | :43:18. | |
budget. Spending half ?1 billion, protecting citizens. Those measures, | :43:19. | :43:31. | |
scaremongering, it rests with the assembly. All powers rest with the | :43:32. | :43:42. | |
assembly. It is difficult to argue against what has been said, you want | :43:43. | :43:49. | |
your cake and eat it. You did not vote for the budget? I support the | :43:50. | :44:03. | |
work. I support what she did. Put meat on proposals. Last year, and | :44:04. | :44:15. | |
the welfare reform discussions, the DUP and Sinn Fein voted them down. | :44:16. | :44:19. | |
That included the abolition of the bedroom tax. So on. It is not the | :44:20. | :44:30. | |
case, to pretend that what Sinn Fein agreed, is about timelines, it is | :44:31. | :44:41. | |
about reductions, taking money out of the pockets. But be have tried to | :44:42. | :44:47. | |
mitigate those difficulties, and the best possible way, with as much | :44:48. | :44:52. | |
money as is available? It is easy to sit on the sidelines. They are | :44:53. | :45:00. | |
having to deal with the issues. We welcome what has been said. How | :45:01. | :45:11. | |
would you fund it? You voted against the budget. No alternative. Out of | :45:12. | :45:20. | |
the current budget. You didn't vote for it! We produce an alternative. | :45:21. | :45:29. | |
That does not mean, they oppose every measure. If you want to see | :45:30. | :45:35. | |
what we have produced, looked at the documents, in the recent | :45:36. | :45:43. | |
negotiations, the most extensive, unlike Sinn Fein, handing over now | :45:44. | :45:49. | |
documents. Do not be misled. Sinn Fein are trying to sell the past on | :45:50. | :46:02. | |
welfare, surrendering to London, creating a fog around the fact that | :46:03. | :46:06. | |
when it comes to people in Northern Ireland, not as much mitigation as | :46:07. | :46:11. | |
promised. It does nothing about the proposals that they have signed up | :46:12. | :46:14. | |
to, going to Westminster, impacting on policy. At no time during that | :46:15. | :46:24. | |
lengthy contribution, as he outlined how the SDLP would treat the | :46:25. | :46:38. | |
situation. Why is this happening? Sinn Fein step forward, how are they | :46:39. | :46:55. | |
being funded? Let's broaden this. You promised people, a great deal. | :46:56. | :47:05. | |
You have deliver less. You could be punished for that. It is a lot less | :47:06. | :47:11. | |
than people thought they were going to be. The deal that people are | :47:12. | :47:17. | |
going to get, it is good to last 12 months. The electorate is going to | :47:18. | :47:23. | |
make decisions. Based on informed debate. That is what democracy is | :47:24. | :47:30. | |
about. Sinn Fein will defend the position. The mitigations, set out | :47:31. | :47:35. | |
for 12 months, but the most important part, that the sanctions | :47:36. | :47:43. | |
being imposed, in England, having the most devastating impact. What we | :47:44. | :47:50. | |
have introduced, it is a support package, to have an appeals process, | :47:51. | :48:04. | |
laptop, -- backed up... It buys people time. You also, within the | :48:05. | :48:21. | |
SDLP, could be punished. In out approach to welfare. No. All of what | :48:22. | :48:30. | |
has just been opened, Intel's mitigation, it has no impact upon | :48:31. | :48:41. | |
the welfare changes coming across, because of the bill. Falsehood. | :48:42. | :48:51. | |
Secondly, a lot of the principles of the proposals, established in the | :48:52. | :48:59. | |
chamber, one years ago, when we said we should have protection for people | :49:00. | :49:05. | |
on benefit conflicts, changes in the benefit caps, all of those... DUP | :49:06. | :49:18. | |
and Sinn Fein voted them down. So when people make the choice, they | :49:19. | :49:22. | |
will have to remember who flip flopped. And those who brought | :49:23. | :49:30. | |
forward crafted proposals. Those who protect the devolution settlement. | :49:31. | :49:39. | |
Those opposed to benefit freezes and those who endorsed them. That is why | :49:40. | :49:44. | |
Martin McGuinness, going back to Derry. That is a different issue. | :49:45. | :49:58. | |
You can fool some people some time, not all the people all the time. | :49:59. | :50:04. | |
People are going to make up their own mind. | :50:05. | :50:20. | |
Do you think the recommendations make sense? She is a good socialist, | :50:21. | :50:31. | |
producing reports, in 1981, on single parents, battered women. Both | :50:32. | :50:39. | |
of them, the most deprived sections, that long ago. She produced a solid | :50:40. | :50:52. | |
piece of work, a woman in a male dominated world. And she has done | :50:53. | :51:00. | |
this well. But this question, it is a distraction. Gerry Adams used that | :51:01. | :51:13. | |
world. In that heated discussion, as John's voice got louder, Alex Atwood | :51:14. | :51:24. | |
struggled, that the proposals, related to those documents, neither | :51:25. | :51:28. | |
of them can make the case that is going to matter on the doorsteps. | :51:29. | :51:34. | |
Especially if people are already feeling hit by cuts. It is | :51:35. | :51:40. | |
describing efforts, to mitigate the situation, that the administration | :51:41. | :51:47. | |
can do little about. Do you get a sense, it is going to become an | :51:48. | :51:52. | |
issue on the doorsteps, and that people understand precisely what it | :51:53. | :52:08. | |
is, Eileen Evason? Eileen Evason's report this excellent, but it does | :52:09. | :52:19. | |
not achieve, the impossible, if you promised the impossible you cannot | :52:20. | :52:22. | |
deliver. That is going to be a political issue. It is a | :52:23. | :52:27. | |
distraction, from unionism, that is what they should be concentrating | :52:28. | :52:34. | |
on. Unionists said that we have no choice, Tory policy, we ought to | :52:35. | :52:43. | |
stay in line with Britain. They have moved, the bedroom tax has gone, | :52:44. | :52:47. | |
this is the sort of thing that Sinn Fein should be concentrating on, but | :52:48. | :52:53. | |
these conservative policies, accepted to a degree, by all of them | :52:54. | :53:00. | |
because they had to. But also mitigated, DUP moved from defending | :53:01. | :53:04. | |
that. It is going to make for some interesting battles. A new | :53:05. | :53:15. | |
constituency, west Belfast as well? Absolutely. Interesting political | :53:16. | :53:22. | |
battles. Large levels of poverty. I think people are going to be angry, | :53:23. | :53:24. | |
about these unfathomable promises. Next to the Easter Rising | :53:25. | :53:28. | |
and the Somme - part of 'our shared narrative across this shared land' - | :53:29. | :53:32. | |
the words of Fine Gael Minister Heather Humphreys on a visit | :53:33. | :53:34. | |
to Belfast this week. The Minister, who's overseeing | :53:35. | :53:42. | |
the centenary of the 1916 Rising, has a few shared narratives herself, | :53:43. | :53:44. | |
with a grand-father who signed Nevertheless, I asked her if her | :53:45. | :53:47. | |
notion of a 'shared history' isn't a little idealistic when there | :53:48. | :53:52. | |
are so many competing I live on the border. I am conscious | :53:53. | :54:06. | |
of sensitivities. But it's 100 years ago. We should hear the stories. The | :54:07. | :54:11. | |
historical facts. We have a lot of misinformation. A lot of people came | :54:12. | :54:25. | |
forward. They didn't realise great grand uncles were in the war. It is | :54:26. | :54:33. | |
about the personal stories. Impact. 1916. And we have the chance, to | :54:34. | :54:42. | |
look back. Can you see why some people are uncomfortable, with | :54:43. | :54:47. | |
anything that looks like a celebration of rebuilding, against | :54:48. | :54:51. | |
the British presence? That is one thing I want to be freed about. This | :54:52. | :54:57. | |
is not a celebration. It is not triumphalism. It is a commemoration. | :54:58. | :55:02. | |
Remembering, listening to the stories. There's going to be a wall. | :55:03. | :55:09. | |
With all the names, of people who lost lives in the Easter Rising. | :55:10. | :55:16. | |
Many civilians, members of the British Army, a lot of those were | :55:17. | :55:27. | |
Irish. Stories to be told. And I think when people reflect, you get a | :55:28. | :55:34. | |
better understanding. Northern Ireland's new First Minister has | :55:35. | :55:37. | |
expressed reservations, about taking part in formal name originates, of | :55:38. | :55:45. | |
1916. She is going to attend an event, to discuss historical | :55:46. | :55:47. | |
context, but will not formally commemorate what has happened, can | :55:48. | :55:54. | |
you see how she has come to that view? I respect that, but I am glad | :55:55. | :56:00. | |
that she said that she will be coming, having a debate, I am | :56:01. | :56:05. | |
pleased and I'm sure we will have many events that she will be able to | :56:06. | :56:15. | |
attend. Comfortable in attending. If a teacher comes up with the right | :56:16. | :56:18. | |
invitation, she will accept. There is that going to happen? The two | :56:19. | :56:31. | |
Bishops... They have come together. They are going to have an event, | :56:32. | :56:38. | |
bringing the children, both sides of the border, together. It is an | :56:39. | :56:48. | |
event, involving art, music, and they are going to be telling the | :56:49. | :56:53. | |
stories, starting from 1916. It goes to the Good Friday agreement. That | :56:54. | :57:01. | |
is going to involve children. That, for example, is one event that both | :57:02. | :57:10. | |
of us would love to be attending. The battle of the Somme centenary. | :57:11. | :57:17. | |
July. Do you see that being commemorated? By weight | :57:18. | :57:23. | |
cross-sections. So many Irishmen, died in that battle. Perhaps that | :57:24. | :57:31. | |
could be another event, that people could come with us, and joint, to | :57:32. | :57:38. | |
commemorate those who most lights. -- lives. The Irish state failed | :57:39. | :57:52. | |
when they returned from the trenches? Are you having to correct | :57:53. | :57:59. | |
mistakes by predecessors? They came home, to a different Ireland. I was | :58:00. | :58:09. | |
agonising, two years ago, and this man I knew... His name was Kevin. He | :58:10. | :58:17. | |
said that was a fantastic day. It means so much to me. Tears down his | :58:18. | :58:22. | |
face. means so much to me. Tears down his | :58:23. | :58:33. | |
came back from the world war, and never spoke about it. He said a | :58:34. | :58:36. | |
wrong had been made right. That is what is important. You seem to | :58:37. | :58:44. | |
personify the complexity of identity, you described yourself as | :58:45. | :58:48. | |
a pro-Irish republican, attending orange order parades, that this | :58:49. | :58:57. | |
complex? I attend cultural events, in my constituency, bands come and | :58:58. | :59:07. | |
play. From Northern Ireland, Monaghan, it is a cultural event | :59:08. | :59:12. | |
that I absolutely enjoyed. People come from all traditions, that is | :59:13. | :59:17. | |
inclusive. How do you think politicians are doing, in Northern | :59:18. | :59:20. | |
Ireland? Do you think the meeting enough of an effort? It takes time. | :59:21. | :59:30. | |
We are making progress all the time. It is by going to these events, GAA | :59:31. | :59:42. | |
matches, dispelling myths. I would encourage people to come together, | :59:43. | :59:49. | |
go to different events. We have a lot more in common than we have that | :59:50. | :59:51. | |
separates us. Heather Humphreys flying the flag | :59:52. | :59:52. | |
for cross-community encounter. Now, let's take a look back | :59:53. | :59:54. | |
at the political week in 60 seconds Martin McGuinness on the move. He | :59:55. | :00:11. | |
will be running, as Sinn Fein target more assembly seats. DUP made it | :00:12. | :00:17. | |
clear Northern Ireland must be leaving the European Union. We would | :00:18. | :00:24. | |
be better outside. The budget has been voted through for the next | :00:25. | :00:29. | |
year. This represents a balanced budget, no level of overcommitment, | :00:30. | :00:34. | |
for many years. Changes to the welfare system moving closer. This | :00:35. | :00:41. | |
would mean Northern Ireland is better prepared, to enable | :00:42. | :00:48. | |
vulnerable people to avoid hardship. Firefighters came to Stormont, to | :00:49. | :00:52. | |
protest against cuts, and the finance minister was reminded of his | :00:53. | :01:00. | |
roots. The financial prudence, except when it comes to considering | :01:01. | :01:02. | |
projects themselves. And let's have a final word | :01:03. | :01:18. | |
from Fionnuala and Paul... candidate in the hot seat, until | :01:19. | :01:19. | |
then, back to you, Andrew. Can David Cameron keep his party | :01:20. | :01:27. | |
together in the run-up Will the SNP stymie the PM's | :01:28. | :01:32. | |
plans for a summer vote? And who will go along to | :01:33. | :01:35. | |
John McDonnell's economics roadshow? Nick, Damian Green downplayed the 40 | :01:36. | :01:52. | |
Eurosceptics who have written to the Prime Minister, asking for a | :01:53. | :01:58. | |
meeting. Is he right? Is there a serious division for the Tories? It | :01:59. | :02:02. | |
was a very diplomatic response from Damian Green, but what Downing | :02:03. | :02:05. | |
Street would say about the letter from John Barron, what is the point | :02:06. | :02:09. | |
of meeting him and his 40 merry friends, because I want to get | :02:10. | :02:12. | |
Britain out and they have always wanted to do so and the demands they | :02:13. | :02:16. | |
are tabling in that letter, to have primacy of the UK Parliament over EU | :02:17. | :02:20. | |
law is not in the negotiation and is not going to happen, but there is a | :02:21. | :02:26. | |
port in point. David Cameron was dismissive of John Barron in the | :02:27. | :02:29. | |
House of Commons and he needs to maybe occasionally show a bit more | :02:30. | :02:33. | |
charm and listening to those kind of people. -- important point. They are | :02:34. | :02:38. | |
on the other side of the prime Minster, but he has got to manage | :02:39. | :02:41. | |
the process carefully and he needs to avoid a civil war, and he can | :02:42. | :02:45. | |
avoid that if all sides are respected in this debate. Presumably | :02:46. | :02:51. | |
the 40 that signed our hard-core Eurosceptic but there are more | :02:52. | :02:57. | |
Eurosceptics. Even if David Cameron gets all of what he is asking for, | :02:58. | :03:02. | |
how many Conservative MPs will still want to come out? Going back to the | :03:03. | :03:07. | |
John Barenboim, the 40 that have signed that letter, Downing Street | :03:08. | :03:14. | |
have put them to one side -- John Barron point. The battle for the | :03:15. | :03:18. | |
party, what do you do with those, maybe a third of the party, that | :03:19. | :03:28. | |
would be minded to leave, maybe 100-100 and 50 MPs, George Osborne | :03:29. | :03:31. | |
was talking about emergency brakes on legislation, if things are coming | :03:32. | :03:34. | |
through from Brussels which the British don't want. They still think | :03:35. | :03:40. | |
that the negotiation really is in play and what we have to do is try | :03:41. | :03:44. | |
and pick off moderate Eurosceptics and give them a package which they | :03:45. | :03:50. | |
can get behind and then we need to accept that there will be 40 | :03:51. | :03:53. | |
hard-core people that we could never placate. In the David Cameron | :03:54. | :03:58. | |
nightmare, that is the potential backdrop to the referendum, the | :03:59. | :04:02. | |
French Prime Minister has said Europe is in grave danger and we | :04:03. | :04:07. | |
have had President task of the council say that we have only got a | :04:08. | :04:11. | |
couple of months to sort out the immigration issue -- Donald Tusk. | :04:12. | :04:15. | |
The Dutch Prime Minister has given warnings, as well. If there's a | :04:16. | :04:20. | |
sense that Europe is falling especially regarding migration, | :04:21. | :04:24. | |
Schengen is swept away, as it might be tomorrow, that is not a way to | :04:25. | :04:30. | |
win a referendum. It is a huge advantage for the Brexit campaign | :04:31. | :04:33. | |
and it distinguishes them from their predecessors of 20 years ago, | :04:34. | :04:37. | |
leaving the EU back then was seen as a pessimistic thing to do, but now | :04:38. | :04:41. | |
you can almost support Brexit because you think, why chain | :04:42. | :04:45. | |
yourself to a continent which is losing, when there's so much | :04:46. | :04:51. | |
dynamism in the world elsewhere? The characteristic of the Brexit | :04:52. | :04:54. | |
campaign is the challenge David Cameron has got to summer, it cannot | :04:55. | :04:57. | |
say they are entirely insular any more. -- has got to surmount. I | :04:58. | :05:04. | |
thought the internal Tory problem with the explosive, if not a big | :05:05. | :05:11. | |
split, but like a rolling crisis from the 1990s, but I no longer | :05:12. | :05:14. | |
think that is true, the fact they know they can expect to be in | :05:15. | :05:18. | |
government until at least 2025, they can maintain basic adhesion because | :05:19. | :05:23. | |
of the weakness of the Labour Party and that is a contrast with the 90s | :05:24. | :05:29. | |
-- basic cohesion. Cameron will look like he is losing control, but there | :05:30. | :05:33. | |
will not be anything existential going on for the party. We believe | :05:34. | :05:39. | |
the government is anxious to get it out of the way by the end of June, | :05:40. | :05:43. | |
may be the first week of July. Nicola Sturgeon said some | :05:44. | :05:47. | |
interesting things on the Andrew Marr show, about the timetable for | :05:48. | :05:55. | |
the referendum. We had a negative feeling campaign from the no | :05:56. | :05:58. | |
campaign and they almost lost, in the referendum for Europe, the | :05:59. | :06:03. | |
campaigns are much closer to start with, and if the in campaign falls | :06:04. | :06:07. | |
into the trap of the no campaign I fear it will lose. Nicola Sturgeon | :06:08. | :06:15. | |
has said that she does not want a June referendum and she feels that | :06:16. | :06:19. | |
is too soon. You can say, that is the view of the First Minister, she | :06:20. | :06:23. | |
doesn't have a vote in parliament, but it have more significance. I was | :06:24. | :06:29. | |
briefed last week by senior Scottish Nationalist who said this, "Many | :06:30. | :06:35. | |
conservatives will not want a June referendum and the risk epics want | :06:36. | :06:42. | |
more time to layout their case -- Eurosceptics want more time to | :06:43. | :06:48. | |
layout their case". The Scottish Nationalists will not help to vote | :06:49. | :06:56. | |
by voting for a June referendum. The SNP could try and turn this into a | :06:57. | :07:00. | |
vote in the house and then it depends on what Labour do, do they | :07:01. | :07:04. | |
want to have it in June or later? I think the Eurosceptics are so | :07:05. | :07:08. | |
focused on trying to get this referendum through, I don't think | :07:09. | :07:15. | |
them as long as they feel they have the campaign in time that they want, | :07:16. | :07:19. | |
the four-month period, I think they will go for it. I'm not sure that is | :07:20. | :07:26. | |
true. Given the divisions in the Eurosceptics side at the moment, and | :07:27. | :07:31. | |
the out campaign, I think they need longer to get there ducks in a row | :07:32. | :07:36. | |
and they feel the best time for them to fight is after there has been | :07:37. | :07:43. | |
another major migration crisis in the summer, people will not on their | :07:44. | :07:46. | |
side of the ardent when that happens. That might be true. -- of | :07:47. | :07:55. | |
the argument. But they cannot argue for a delay in some ways, but I do | :07:56. | :08:00. | |
feel that Nicola Sturgeon's intervention is significant and the | :08:01. | :08:03. | |
pressure on the Prime Minister to listen to what she is saying, will | :08:04. | :08:06. | |
not so much come in parliament, it could come from the electoral | :08:07. | :08:09. | |
commission, which has already said they cannot have the referendum in | :08:10. | :08:13. | |
May as the same time as the devolved elections, and if you have Nicola | :08:14. | :08:19. | |
Sturgeon, Arlene Foster, the First Minister of Northern Ireland, and | :08:20. | :08:22. | |
Karen Jones can be First Minister of Wales Coulibaly said they think this | :08:23. | :08:26. | |
is over complicating -- First Minister of Wales, if they all said | :08:27. | :08:31. | |
they think this is over, catering, because it would happen at the same | :08:32. | :08:36. | |
time as the devolved elections -- if they all said this is | :08:37. | :08:40. | |
overcompensated. That would be significant, we could be bouncing | :08:41. | :08:45. | |
into September. They have said they do not want the overlap, there | :08:46. | :08:49. | |
should be a clear gap between the referendum campaign and the local | :08:50. | :08:53. | |
elections, the assembly come and the Parliamentary elections in Scotland. | :08:54. | :09:00. | |
They have a low view of the ability of the electorate to distinguish | :09:01. | :09:02. | |
between elections, I do think Nicolas -- Nicola Sturgeon is an | :09:03. | :09:11. | |
obstacle, but the biggest obstacle will be David Cameron and what he | :09:12. | :09:16. | |
can get from the EU. You don't think it will be a done deal pretty much | :09:17. | :09:23. | |
they are putting a lot of weight white -- you don't think it will be | :09:24. | :09:29. | |
a done deal? They are putting a lot of weight on one summit, but the | :09:30. | :09:32. | |
next summit that matters, it only takes one delay for us to move | :09:33. | :09:36. | |
beyond June and then into September. I thought 2017 would be more likely, | :09:37. | :09:40. | |
I have slightly revised that view, but I don't think June is possible. | :09:41. | :09:52. | |
We have leave, and several out campaigns, and we have got one which | :09:53. | :10:00. | |
is called grassroots out. Liam Fox, Conservative, Nigel Farage, Kate | :10:01. | :10:05. | |
Hoey from Labour was there, it was launched yesterday. At some stage | :10:06. | :10:12. | |
they have got to consult them if they want to be serious and marshal | :10:13. | :10:15. | |
their resources, they have got to have a single campaign? And by law | :10:16. | :10:21. | |
they have got through, the electoral commission is going to have two | :10:22. | :10:25. | |
designate a campaign on either side. It is pretty clear that the inside | :10:26. | :10:30. | |
are coalescing around the Britain stronger in Europe group, but on the | :10:31. | :10:33. | |
outside there is not that agreement and there is feuding between these | :10:34. | :10:36. | |
groups and they're going to have to reach agreement. The problem they | :10:37. | :10:40. | |
have, who is going to lead them? Nigel Lawson is a key figure and he | :10:41. | :10:44. | |
says they will get a senior Cabinet minister, but I said the most senior | :10:45. | :10:48. | |
Cabinet minister who will go for Brexit, in Duncan Smith, do his own | :10:49. | :10:52. | |
thing, which leaves you with Chris Grayling -- Iain Duncan Smith. And | :10:53. | :10:59. | |
also Theresa Villiers. They will go up against the leader of the in | :11:00. | :11:06. | |
campaign who is someone called David Cameron, and so they really do need | :11:07. | :11:10. | |
to get unity. Vote Labour say they are more grown-up, -- vote leave say | :11:11. | :11:19. | |
they are more grown-up, for example. Some are said to me the other day | :11:20. | :11:23. | |
that Chris Grayling's view is that many senior figures in the party | :11:24. | :11:29. | |
should be voices. In other words he was suggesting he did not want to | :11:30. | :11:32. | |
leave and they would not be one senior Cabinet minister that was | :11:33. | :11:35. | |
going to champion it which gives them another problem. The | :11:36. | :11:39. | |
organisational, factional differences make much less | :11:40. | :11:46. | |
difference in who you have as your voice, it could be a very prominent | :11:47. | :11:49. | |
businessperson, for example, the head of a major company. Who knows | :11:50. | :11:58. | |
how to bend opinion. That is not true of many business people. They | :11:59. | :12:01. | |
could talk about the economic risk. The state in campaign was launched | :12:02. | :12:07. | |
by Stuart Rose. And it was a disaster. It was a disastrous launch | :12:08. | :12:17. | |
will stop you going to John McDonnell's economic seminar? I'm | :12:18. | :12:24. | |
washing my hair. He was to get out of the -- he says he would like to | :12:25. | :12:28. | |
get out of the Westminster bubble, he has only | :12:29. | :12:28. | |
get out of the Westminster bubble, he has only got to the West End, but | :12:29. | :12:35. | |
he has got out there. You don't want to come? There are many people | :12:36. | :12:40. | |
worried about Jeremy Corbyn's leadership in the Labour Party, but | :12:41. | :12:44. | |
they are encouraged about the seminars, the economics panel, he | :12:45. | :12:48. | |
has got an incredibly serious group of people, is opening up these | :12:49. | :12:55. | |
seminars and they are encouraged. There was a good piece in the Sunday | :12:56. | :12:58. | |
Times about whether there is a good deal with Google and whether this is | :12:59. | :13:01. | |
such a good deal for the British taxpayer. I can feel I'm going to be | :13:02. | :13:08. | |
on my own. Anyway, it has sold out, there is no room for you. | :13:09. | :13:11. | |
Jo Coburn will be back with the Daily Politics | :13:12. | :13:16. | |
And I'll be back here on BBC One next Sunday | :13:17. | :13:20. | |
Remember - if it's Sunday, it's the Sunday Politics. | :13:21. | :13:51. | |
bought on the streets of east Belfast, | :13:52. | :13:55. | |
How can it be credible leadership did not know? | :13:56. | :14:04. | |
The mistakes made in this case would have enormous consequences. | :14:05. | :14:09. |