Browse content similar to 25/09/2016. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Welcome to Liverpool where the Labour Party has decided | :00:08. | :00:11. | |
who its next leader should be - he's the same one they had before. | :00:12. | :00:15. | |
So is it onwards and upwards for Jeremy Corbyn's Labour? | :00:16. | :00:51. | |
Morning folks and welcome to the Sunday Politics. | :00:52. | :00:55. | |
I am therefore, conference, delighted to declare Jeremy Corbyn | :00:56. | :00:57. | |
elected as leader of the Labour Party. | :00:58. | :01:02. | |
Jeremy Corbyn says he wants to "wipe the slate clean". | :01:03. | :01:08. | |
But can Labour MPs serve under a man they said they had no confidence in? | :01:09. | :01:12. | |
We look at where the next battles are likely to be fought and speak | :01:13. | :01:15. | |
to one peer who's quitting the party in protest. | :01:16. | :01:17. | |
Jeremy has no leadership qualities, whatsoever. | :01:18. | :01:19. | |
His little group like him and they think he is the Messiah | :01:20. | :01:24. | |
but he will never become the leader - | :01:25. | :01:26. | |
He's been "getting down" at party conferences for more than 50 years - | :01:27. | :01:36. | |
we'll ask John Prescott if he's optimistic about the next 50 years. | :01:37. | :01:41. | |
David Cameron felt "let down" by Theresa May | :01:42. | :01:45. | |
because of her lukewarm support for Remain during the | :01:46. | :01:47. | |
And coming up here, a deal has been reached over the long-running | :01:48. | :01:54. | |
Twaddell Avenue dispute in North Belfast. | :01:55. | :01:55. | |
So is the stand-off now a part of history or are there | :01:56. | :01:58. | |
In the capital, how is this rivalry shaping up? | :01:59. | :02:04. | |
London's Mayor warns pointedly that you can only change lives | :02:05. | :02:07. | |
And we tried to oust them from the programme - | :02:08. | :02:14. | |
but they're back by popular demand - so with me - the best | :02:15. | :02:18. | |
and the brightest political panel in the business Steve Richards, | :02:19. | :02:21. | |
Rachel Shabi and Tom Newton-Dunn, who'll be tweeting | :02:22. | :02:23. | |
David Cameron became intensely frustrated | :02:24. | :02:30. | |
at Theresa May's unwillingness to declare her intentions | :02:31. | :02:33. | |
in the run-up to the EU referendum campaign. | :02:34. | :02:36. | |
That's according to a new book by Mr Cameron's former spin doctor. | :02:37. | :02:42. | |
The book by Craig Oliver is called Unleashing Demons: | :02:43. | :02:45. | |
The Inside Story Of Brexit, and is being serialised in Mail | :02:46. | :02:50. | |
The book talks about Mrs May's "submarine strategy | :02:51. | :02:54. | |
Mr Oliver also writes that, "Her sphinx-like approach | :02:55. | :03:00. | |
At one point a leading Remain campaigner asks: "Are we sure May's | :03:01. | :03:04. | |
Oliver also makes claims around Boris Johnson's | :03:05. | :03:08. | |
He claims Mr Johnson texted Mr Cameron after | :03:09. | :03:15. | |
saying Brexit would be "crushed like a toad beneath the harrow". | :03:16. | :03:21. | |
And claims the new Foreign Secretary had a last-minute wobble over | :03:22. | :03:24. | |
backing a vote to Leave the EU, sending a text which read | :03:25. | :03:27. | |
There we go. We know the feeling! This is a Prime Minister of which we | :03:28. | :03:36. | |
know very little. What does this tell us about her? What it tells us | :03:37. | :03:41. | |
is that Craig Oliver David Cameron don't like her very much, that's the | :03:42. | :03:46. | |
only thing we can be 100% sure of, quite frankly. We knew she was a | :03:47. | :03:49. | |
submarine throughout the campaign and I remember discussing it during | :03:50. | :03:55. | |
the campaign on your programme. What we are debating is the motive, why | :03:56. | :04:00. | |
does she stay hidden? Speaking to Downing Street people this morning, | :04:01. | :04:03. | |
they are furious. They say Craig Oliver would be better writing | :04:04. | :04:07. | |
fiction than fact. They are disputing a lot of what Craig Oliver | :04:08. | :04:11. | |
says but of course he was there. It comes down to what you think of | :04:12. | :04:15. | |
Theresa May. Why was she so quiet? Why would she not come up behind | :04:16. | :04:21. | |
Cameron? Was it a political thing because she wanted to be a PM or did | :04:22. | :04:24. | |
she not believe what he was saying? What we know is she was always a | :04:25. | :04:29. | |
reluctant Remainer and some people thought she was a secret Brexiteer. | :04:30. | :04:34. | |
What with don't know is she was playing the part of a submarine. Was | :04:35. | :04:38. | |
she quietly plotting for the leadership? That is the bit that is | :04:39. | :04:43. | |
unclear. Yes, I mean, I think to a certain extent a lot of these things | :04:44. | :04:46. | |
we did already know, you are right. But we didn't know the extent to | :04:47. | :04:50. | |
which... I mean, this is a party which claims to love Britain and yet | :04:51. | :04:58. | |
seems to make decisions on the basis of pure political gain. And once we | :04:59. | :05:02. | |
see the machinations of that and the insights to that that seem to be | :05:03. | :05:07. | |
exposed today in this book, the fact Theresa May was asked 13 times, the | :05:08. | :05:14. | |
fact Boris Johnson... 13 times to? To step up and support Cameron. I | :05:15. | :05:20. | |
missed that, 13 times she was asked? In fact, Boris Johnson less than a | :05:21. | :05:24. | |
minute before making decisions sent a text to David Cameron saying he | :05:25. | :05:28. | |
would come out in favour of Remain, shows how arbitrary, random and | :05:29. | :05:31. | |
politically driven these decisions were. I think we should be asking | :05:32. | :05:36. | |
them these questions every day. It is unforgivable they took the | :05:37. | :05:39. | |
country to such a massive and catastrophic decision on the basis | :05:40. | :05:45. | |
of such naked political gain. That has never happened in politics | :05:46. | :05:52. | |
before! Perish the thought! I thought that because Mrs May played | :05:53. | :05:56. | |
the part of reluctant Remainer she would annoy both sides, that the | :05:57. | :06:00. | |
Leave campaign would be angry with her because she didn't jump to them | :06:01. | :06:06. | |
and Remain side would be angry because she did nothing effective | :06:07. | :06:09. | |
during the campaign and that would count her out from getting the | :06:10. | :06:13. | |
leadership. How did I get that wrong? It certainly didn't have that | :06:14. | :06:18. | |
effect. I think we can roughly work out what happened. A senior official | :06:19. | :06:21. | |
at the Home Office who worked with Theresa May for a long time told me | :06:22. | :06:25. | |
earlier this year, long before the referendum, and when people had | :06:26. | :06:30. | |
declared, that he was 100% sure she would back Remain. He was a great | :06:31. | :06:34. | |
admirer of hers and he said that was her view and that she would do that. | :06:35. | :06:39. | |
So I think she was a Remainer. But as you say, she had doubts. She made | :06:40. | :06:43. | |
Corbyn look evangelical on the issue. There is nothing | :06:44. | :06:51. | |
contradictory about being in the end for Remain but harbouring leadership | :06:52. | :06:54. | |
ambitions. They did try to get her to do more, I know they did. But the | :06:55. | :06:58. | |
Remain campaign was also ambiguous about the issue of immigration and | :06:59. | :07:02. | |
the group Dunne the degree to which they wanted to go with it, they | :07:03. | :07:06. | |
wanted to go on the economy. I don't think they pressed her the heart of | :07:07. | :07:09. | |
the dominant force in the campaign because they wanted it to be more | :07:10. | :07:14. | |
about the economy than immigration. So reluctant Remainer, low profile | :07:15. | :07:18. | |
for all kinds of reasons, one of which was the Remain campaign didn't | :07:19. | :07:21. | |
want immigration to overwhelm the economy. It did in the end. They | :07:22. | :07:29. | |
calculated that wrong. The Remain campaign got that wrong, not Theresa | :07:30. | :07:36. | |
May. Have we known less about any Prime Minister in modern times than | :07:37. | :07:39. | |
Theresa May? It's funny because we think we know her. I've interviewed | :07:40. | :07:43. | |
her, you have interviewed her, we have seen her around the scene for | :07:44. | :07:49. | |
20 years but we don't know precisely... We will get a load more | :07:50. | :07:53. | |
about this at Tory conference. Is that coming up? Have got to go there | :07:54. | :07:59. | |
too? One day we will leave Liverpool. People will see that as | :08:00. | :08:02. | |
an opportunity to explain a bit more about her. River Lea, because we | :08:03. | :08:07. | |
need to move on. We'll have a habit of overestimated and overanalysing | :08:08. | :08:12. | |
Theresa May -- briefly. She could be a simple straightforward person who | :08:13. | :08:14. | |
likes to tell the truth, ever thought about that? Never. It is | :08:15. | :08:21. | |
tough to get to the top with people knowing who you are. Why would we | :08:22. | :08:25. | |
want to leave Liverpool? Look over there, it is lovely. It was the | :08:26. | :08:29. | |
result everyone expected. After almost three months | :08:30. | :08:33. | |
of campaigning Labour have the same leader they had before - | :08:34. | :08:35. | |
so can the slate really be wiped clean - as Jeremy Corbyn has urged - | :08:36. | :08:38. | |
or will splits and divisions Adam Fleming has been watching | :08:39. | :08:41. | |
events here in Liverpool unfolding. But it's been about our Labour | :08:42. | :08:45. | |
family facing the future. He was the head of the family last | :08:46. | :08:47. | |
week and he'll be the head So Labour has elected its new leader | :08:48. | :08:50. | |
and is the old leader, So Labour has elected its new leader | :08:51. | :08:58. | |
and it's the old leader, Jeremy Corbyn, winning this contest | :08:59. | :09:01. | |
and winning by a slightly larger In his second victory speech in just | :09:02. | :09:03. | |
over a year Jeremy Corbyn said Labour would fight the Government's | :09:04. | :09:14. | |
plans to extend grammar I'm calling on Labour Party members | :09:15. | :09:16. | |
all over the country to join us in a national campaign for inclusive | :09:17. | :09:20. | |
education for all next Saturday. The Tories' plans for grammar school | :09:21. | :09:23. | |
segregation of our children expose their divisive and damaging | :09:24. | :09:38. | |
agenda for our country. But the big message | :09:39. | :09:41. | |
to his party was this. We have much more in common | :09:42. | :09:46. | |
than that which divides us. As far as I'm concerned let's wipe | :09:47. | :09:49. | |
that slate clean from today and get on with the work we've got to do | :09:50. | :10:01. | |
as a party together. Jezza escaped the cameras to go | :10:02. | :10:03. | |
and celebrate with his allies. Where is the Jeremy | :10:04. | :10:06. | |
Corbyn victory party There will be a number of victory | :10:07. | :10:09. | |
parties, but the most important thing now is just | :10:10. | :10:14. | |
bringing people together. So what Jeremy will be doing | :10:15. | :10:16. | |
is going around all the different individual party receptions, | :10:17. | :10:19. | |
the different regions and giving the same unity message, | :10:20. | :10:23. | |
and he will be drinking, or having cups of tea, | :10:24. | :10:25. | |
with everybody, all sides. As luck would have it we found | :10:26. | :10:29. | |
a persistent Corbyn critic who had just been invited | :10:30. | :10:32. | |
in for a friendly chat. I'm actually just going | :10:33. | :10:34. | |
to see Jeremy Corbyn now. Oh, are you? | :10:35. | :10:36. | |
Have a one-to-one chat? He asked me to see me | :10:37. | :10:38. | |
so I'm going to see him. Can we come with you? | :10:39. | :10:48. | |
Alas, I don't think he'll allow it. And we did, staking out | :10:49. | :10:51. | |
their meeting at the leader's hotel. She didn't sound | :10:52. | :10:55. | |
entirely convinced. It was fine. | :10:56. | :10:57. | |
What happened? He wanted to talk to me because I'm | :10:58. | :10:59. | |
the chair of the women's PLP. It's the right thing to do that | :11:00. | :11:03. | |
Jeremy wanted to see people like me who have our own mandates | :11:04. | :11:06. | |
within the PLP. I think that's | :11:07. | :11:08. | |
the right thing to do. It's whether you listen and then | :11:09. | :11:10. | |
change your actions that matters. Others were less polite on Twitter, | :11:11. | :11:17. | |
posting pictures of their chopped He is hostile to America, | :11:18. | :11:23. | |
he is hostile to business and he's And I'm the reverse on all those | :11:24. | :11:33. | |
issues as well. This is a position, | :11:34. | :11:37. | |
as Leader of The Opposition, where effectively you are in | :11:38. | :11:50. | |
position to become the next You cannot become the Prime Minister | :11:51. | :11:53. | |
of this country unless you appeal to the great population, | :11:54. | :11:57. | |
and in particular middle England. And I think Jeremy has no | :11:58. | :11:59. | |
leadership qualities whatsoever. Back at conference, | :12:00. | :12:01. | |
they were setting up for a meeting Corbyn fans and Corbyn sceptics | :12:02. | :12:03. | |
are deadlocked over reforms to the party, especially | :12:04. | :12:07. | |
plans to revive elections The criticism doesn't matter | :12:08. | :12:09. | |
here at the festival running alongside conference, | :12:10. | :12:17. | |
organised by the pro-Corbyn They are just over the moon | :12:18. | :12:19. | |
that they have managed to get their hero elected, | :12:20. | :12:27. | |
not just once but twice. And we're joined now | :12:28. | :12:31. | |
by the former Shadow Health Welcome back to the Sunday Politics. | :12:32. | :12:42. | |
Tell me, what will go down in history as the most botched coup of | :12:43. | :12:47. | |
2016? Will it be the uprising against President Erdogan in Turkey, | :12:48. | :12:52. | |
or your efforts to unseat Mr Corbyn in the UK? | :12:53. | :12:54. | |
You've started from completely the wrong premise, Andrew, to be honest. | :12:55. | :12:59. | |
As much as you might read in the papers about a finely orchestrated | :13:00. | :13:05. | |
plot and coo, what I know is I resigned at the end of June because | :13:06. | :13:08. | |
I had concerns about Jeremy's capacity to lead the Labour Party. I | :13:09. | :13:15. | |
was worried that in a very complicated situation that we find | :13:16. | :13:19. | |
ourselves in after the results of the referendum he didn't have the | :13:20. | :13:23. | |
capacity to develop the answers that the party needs. So there was a | :13:24. | :13:27. | |
concerted effort to get rid of him. I resigned at the end of June. A | :13:28. | :13:32. | |
number of my colleagues shared the sense of despair and there was | :13:33. | :13:34. | |
clearly a vote of no-confidence in the Parliamentary Labour Party. At | :13:35. | :13:39. | |
the point at which that happened and that the point at which Jeremy said | :13:40. | :13:44. | |
he wasn't going to resign, they had to be a leadership contest. Why did | :13:45. | :13:48. | |
there have to be? What was the point of it? You have left him stronger | :13:49. | :13:53. | |
than ever. What we have done this is have a | :13:54. | :13:57. | |
really important debate about the future of the Labour Party. It was | :13:58. | :14:00. | |
important for members of parliament who with Jeremy day in and day out | :14:01. | :14:06. | |
and who have had growing concerns over the last year to say we've got | :14:07. | :14:11. | |
to change as a party. The next 12 months need to be better than the | :14:12. | :14:16. | |
last 12 months. We need to appeal to the country. We need Jeremy to | :14:17. | :14:19. | |
understand that if we are going to be a credible and effective | :14:20. | :14:24. | |
opposition, and a government in waiting, then he actually needs to | :14:25. | :14:28. | |
get his act together. So does he understand that now? I hope so but | :14:29. | :14:34. | |
only time will tell. It may all be for nothing. You'll have to ask him | :14:35. | :14:38. | |
the next time he comes on your show. You were the ones who sparked this | :14:39. | :14:43. | |
process. Do you now have any doubt that he will lead Labour into the | :14:44. | :14:49. | |
2020 election? Well, a week is a long time in politics, Andrew. Who | :14:50. | :14:52. | |
knows when the next General Election will be? I said 2020, that is when | :14:53. | :14:57. | |
it is scheduled to be but there could be a surprise but Labour would | :14:58. | :15:01. | |
have to vote for that in the Commons. Let's assume it is 2020 and | :15:02. | :15:05. | |
it is the full term. Are you in any doubt that Mr Corbyn will lead your | :15:06. | :15:09. | |
party into that election? Watch Jeremy has got to do is prove he can | :15:10. | :15:13. | |
unite the party and that he can craft a message that appeals to the | :15:14. | :15:16. | |
country. I don't think anyone wants to continue the leadership contest | :15:17. | :15:21. | |
of this summer. But what people like me are determined to do is to | :15:22. | :15:26. | |
continue fighting for a Labour Party that speaks to and for the whole of | :15:27. | :15:31. | |
the country, and one which is capable of winning the next General | :15:32. | :15:35. | |
Election. So you do have some doubts? That is not what I said. We | :15:36. | :15:40. | |
need to focus our efforts... I know what you said about your focus but | :15:41. | :15:44. | |
it is a simple question, do you have doubts that he can win the next | :15:45. | :15:48. | |
General Election? Jeremy needs to prove that he is a competent and | :15:49. | :15:51. | |
capable Leader of the Opposition. You have said that, of course, | :15:52. | :15:55. | |
everybody who is Leader of the Opposition must prove they are | :15:56. | :15:58. | |
competent. It would seem from your inability to give a straight answer | :15:59. | :16:02. | |
that you do have doubts that he will win, indeed you even seem to have | :16:03. | :16:07. | |
doubts that he will lead your party into the next election. I have been | :16:08. | :16:10. | |
honest and it would be quite strange for me having been so explicit over | :16:11. | :16:14. | |
the summer to come onto your programme and say that overnight the | :16:15. | :16:17. | |
concerns that I had expressed had evaporated. Clearly Jeremy is to be | :16:18. | :16:22. | |
congratulated on winning for a second time and he won a clear | :16:23. | :16:28. | |
victory. But because people have voted for him in the numbers that | :16:29. | :16:31. | |
they have doesn't mean that somebody like me automatically changes my | :16:32. | :16:35. | |
mind. There are a number of things that he could do to move the party | :16:36. | :16:40. | |
forward. Give me the most important one. I think he needs to commit | :16:41. | :16:44. | |
unequivocally to a majority of the Shadow Cabinet being elected by the | :16:45. | :16:49. | |
Parliamentary Labour Party. MPs need a new top team to coalesce around. | :16:50. | :16:54. | |
Jeremy has talked about extending an olive branches. Is talked about | :16:55. | :16:59. | |
wiping the slate clean. The time for words is over. -- he has talked. The | :17:00. | :17:06. | |
time for that is over. He needs to say one thing that would show his | :17:07. | :17:13. | |
willingness to compromise. A minority of the Shadow Cabinet | :17:14. | :17:15. | |
should be elected by the Parliamentary Labour Party? -- | :17:16. | :17:24. | |
majority. That is the first one. There are other ideas about how the | :17:25. | :17:30. | |
cabinet should be selected. Do you believe he will do that? He's been | :17:31. | :17:35. | |
playing for time in the NEC. What would be useful is in the 24 hours | :17:36. | :17:39. | |
following his election is for him to show that he has learned from the | :17:40. | :17:43. | |
last 12 months and an elected Shadow Cabinet would be one way of doing | :17:44. | :17:48. | |
that. I also think... Can I just ask, why would he do that? His | :17:49. | :17:53. | |
support, his constituency, if I could put it that way, is the | :17:54. | :17:57. | |
membership in the country. Particularly the new members, who | :17:58. | :18:03. | |
gave him 85% of their votes. He knows the PLP cannot stand him. So | :18:04. | :18:07. | |
why would he hand the power to choose his Shadow Cabinet to that | :18:08. | :18:10. | |
part of the Labour Party which likes him least? | :18:11. | :18:14. | |
I think you are characterising the Parliamentary Labour Party | :18:15. | :18:21. | |
incorrectly, Andrew. Jeremy needs to build a team in Parliament in order | :18:22. | :18:27. | |
to fulfil the basic functions of a parliamentary opposition. The basic | :18:28. | :18:29. | |
duties parliamentary opposition cannot be carried out if you don't | :18:30. | :18:35. | |
have a team. Clearly people were concerned about the direction of | :18:36. | :18:38. | |
travel over the past year. We've been concerned about dreadful | :18:39. | :18:42. | |
results in local elections, we've been concerned about the inability | :18:43. | :18:51. | |
to go out and really make the case strongly for us staying in the EU. | :18:52. | :18:55. | |
If Jeremy wants to be a strong and effective opposition, she needs -- | :18:56. | :19:05. | |
he needs to be Parliament... All of us need to behave with maturity and | :19:06. | :19:10. | |
humility going forward. I think there's some options here that he | :19:11. | :19:14. | |
could be exploring. All right. If he doesn't follow your advice and if he | :19:15. | :19:18. | |
sticks with the leader largely appointing the Shadow Cabinet, many | :19:19. | :19:24. | |
would say if it was good enough for Ed Miliband to do that it should be | :19:25. | :19:28. | |
good enough for Jeremy Corbyn to do that, if he continues along that | :19:29. | :19:31. | |
route, should centrist MPs like yourself serve in that Shadow | :19:32. | :19:37. | |
Cabinet? I won't be serving in that Shadow Cabinet. I have been explicit | :19:38. | :19:42. | |
in my view this summer, as I've already said to you, they haven't | :19:43. | :19:45. | |
changed overnight simply because Jeremy Paris been elected. Can you | :19:46. | :19:52. | |
just explain, given... I'm not sure what else he has to do. He's won two | :19:53. | :19:59. | |
leadership elections by massive majorities, the second one even | :20:00. | :20:04. | |
bigger than the first. He is clearly the choice of the party in the | :20:05. | :20:09. | |
country. Why would you not join his Shadow Cabinet? Because as I said in | :20:10. | :20:13. | |
the last couple of months, and I'm sorry to say this, but my | :20:14. | :20:16. | |
experiences during that time were that it was dysfunctional and I | :20:17. | :20:20. | |
think behaviours do have to change in order for the Parliamentary | :20:21. | :20:24. | |
Labour Party and the Shadow Cabinet to be a really effective opposition. | :20:25. | :20:30. | |
I think I can best serve the Labour Party and my constituents from the | :20:31. | :20:35. | |
backbenches. If we know how this works... If I were to return to the | :20:36. | :20:38. | |
front bench, in a couple of weeks' time you would be saying to me, | :20:39. | :20:42. | |
Heidi Alexander, you said all of those things over the summer, have | :20:43. | :20:47. | |
you now changed your mind? I don't think that's good for anyone. Would | :20:48. | :20:52. | |
you advise like-minded MPs to do the same, not to join Mr Corbyn's Shadow | :20:53. | :20:57. | |
Cabinet? I think every member of Parliament will ultimately take | :20:58. | :21:00. | |
their own decisions. Would you advise them or just leave them to | :21:01. | :21:06. | |
their own devices? I think if Jeremy commits to having the majority of | :21:07. | :21:09. | |
the Shadow Cabinet elected by the Parliamentary Labour Party, then for | :21:10. | :21:13. | |
some people that might be the right thing to do for them. You backed | :21:14. | :21:19. | |
Owen Smith in this election campaign. If there were a general | :21:20. | :21:25. | |
fear among MPs like yourself that Labour is drifting to father left to | :21:26. | :21:28. | |
be electable for the country as a whole, why if that was the case did | :21:29. | :21:34. | |
Owen Smith not attack a single domestic policy of Jeremy Corbyn's? | :21:35. | :21:39. | |
I think what Owen did throughout the campaign was actually moved beyond | :21:40. | :21:42. | |
the slogans. That's the problem we've had in the last year. Jeremy | :21:43. | :21:46. | |
Thompson about investing ?500 billion in a capital investment | :21:47. | :21:51. | |
programme but has absolutely no idea where that's coming from. -- Jeremy | :21:52. | :21:53. | |
Thompson bout that. -- Jeremy talks about that. Owen | :21:54. | :22:04. | |
Smith is honest and says we would have to borrow. That's what Jeremy | :22:05. | :22:10. | |
Corbyn says! Actually, it's quite different to what Jeremy Corbyn and' | :22:11. | :22:15. | |
John McDonald have been saying. If the fear was drifting to the left | :22:16. | :22:23. | |
and making the party unelectable... It was mainly about, we're just as | :22:24. | :22:27. | |
left wing as Mr Corbyn but we are more unelectable! You didn't have | :22:28. | :22:31. | |
any major policy differences with the leader! I think we did, | :22:32. | :22:36. | |
actually. We spoke about the EU referendum and our commitment and | :22:37. | :22:40. | |
our belief that the British people should have a say on the final | :22:41. | :22:45. | |
Brexit deal, either in a second referendum or at the general | :22:46. | :22:49. | |
election. There were differences around areas of defence policy as | :22:50. | :22:55. | |
well. Domestic policy was my original question. I understand the | :22:56. | :23:01. | |
difference on defence. It's clear that the party membership has | :23:02. | :23:07. | |
changed. Revolution may be too strong a word, but there is a clear | :23:08. | :23:10. | |
difference between the new members who have come in and those who were | :23:11. | :23:14. | |
party members at the election last year and in May of 2015. What would | :23:15. | :23:19. | |
be wrong for these new members to say we would like Labour MPs who | :23:20. | :23:26. | |
more reflect our values, our positions, our policy is that we | :23:27. | :23:30. | |
want to see implemented. What would be wrong with that? I think the | :23:31. | :23:34. | |
Labour Party is quite divided at the moment and we should be honest about | :23:35. | :23:39. | |
that. This is a searing revelation you're giving me this morning (!) | :23:40. | :23:44. | |
Parties change, your party has been reinvigorated with a lot of young, | :23:45. | :23:50. | |
new people coming in. What would be wrong with them saying actually, I | :23:51. | :23:54. | |
would like to have an MP represent me who is more in tune with what | :23:55. | :23:58. | |
I've signed up for? I'm not sure it's really about that, to be | :23:59. | :24:03. | |
honest. My own experience in my constituency, someone who is a | :24:04. | :24:06. | |
hard-working member of Parliament, I've spoken to a lot of those new | :24:07. | :24:10. | |
members who value the work that I do in my constituency but some of whom | :24:11. | :24:14. | |
have taken the decision clearly to vote for Jeremy still. We should | :24:15. | :24:19. | |
remember that since Jeremy Maclin lost the election, 80,000 people | :24:20. | :24:23. | |
joined between then and the freeze date of the 12th of January, so | :24:24. | :24:31. | |
there are 80,000 people who had by and large joint because of Jeremy | :24:32. | :24:34. | |
Vine who had not yet had the opportunity to vote for him. I | :24:35. | :24:42. | |
understand that. Are you in trouble yourself? I hope I'm not but I know | :24:43. | :24:46. | |
there are people who are agitating against it. What do you think when | :24:47. | :24:54. | |
you see Diane Abbott doing that job? I think Diane Abbott has one of the | :24:55. | :24:58. | |
biggest and most responsible jobs in Parliament. I think that she needs a | :24:59. | :25:05. | |
team around her to actually do that job effectively. The only way she | :25:06. | :25:09. | |
will get that team is if Jeremy agrees, I think, to Shadow Cabinet | :25:10. | :25:15. | |
elections. That is a point that has come through loud and clear. Heidi | :25:16. | :25:16. | |
Alexander, thank you. So, Labour MPs who prompted this | :25:17. | :25:22. | |
leadership contest have lost the argument and failed to persuade | :25:23. | :25:24. | |
Labour Party members and supporters But can centrist Labour MPs use | :25:25. | :25:27. | |
the party machinery to take The National Executive Committee | :25:28. | :25:31. | |
is the Labour Party's ruling body. Win control of the NEC and you win | :25:32. | :25:38. | |
control of the beating Since Jeremy Corbyn | :25:39. | :25:41. | |
first became leader, there has been a fine balance | :25:42. | :25:49. | |
on the NEC between his loyalists In anticipation of his re-election, | :25:50. | :25:52. | |
the deputy leader Tom Watson has recently been squaring up | :25:53. | :26:00. | |
to Mr Corbyn in the latest The committee has 33 members | :26:01. | :26:03. | |
representing local parties, unions, Going into the party's conference, | :26:04. | :26:06. | |
the NEC looks to have tipped slightly in the leader's favour, | :26:07. | :26:12. | |
with 18 Corbyn-leaning members Although one or two of these | :26:13. | :26:15. | |
could tilt either way The pro-Corbyn block has been | :26:16. | :26:19. | |
boosted by two new members. Rhea Wolfson and Claudia Webbe, | :26:20. | :26:27. | |
who will replace two However, the NEC recently agreed | :26:28. | :26:31. | |
a rule change that could allow Scottish Labour | :26:32. | :26:36. | |
leader Kezia Dugdale and Welsh First Minister Carwyn | :26:37. | :26:40. | |
Jones, both hostile to Mr Corbyn, Tom Watson is also leading the move | :26:41. | :26:43. | |
to restore elections to the Shadow Cabinet, | :26:44. | :26:49. | |
a plan overwhelmingly The Shadow Cabinet currently picks | :26:50. | :26:56. | |
three of its own to sit on the NEC, currently two of the three, | :26:57. | :27:09. | |
Jon Trickett and Rebecca The other, Jonathan Ashworth, | :27:10. | :27:16. | |
is a Corbyn sceptic. If Labour MPs were allowed to elect | :27:17. | :27:19. | |
people to the Shadow Cabinet it could result in more centrists | :27:20. | :27:22. | |
on the NEC. Meanwhile, Mr Corbyn is promoting | :27:23. | :27:24. | |
the idea of giving ordinary party members and trade unions more | :27:25. | :27:27. | |
say on the committee. Control of the NEC could allow | :27:28. | :27:29. | |
Jeremy Corbyn and his allies to change the rules for future | :27:30. | :27:32. | |
leadership elections, which would make it almost | :27:33. | :27:34. | |
impossible for MPs and MEPs to stop another left-wing candidate making | :27:35. | :27:36. | |
a future bid for the leadership. And the move perhaps most feared | :27:37. | :27:39. | |
by MPs, a mandatory reselection We're joined now by Rhea Wolfson - | :27:40. | :27:52. | |
a Jeremy Corbyn supporter who was recently elected to the NEC | :27:53. | :27:55. | |
and takes up her seat at the end of the week - | :27:56. | :27:58. | |
and by Luke Akehurst who supported Owen Smith | :27:59. | :28:00. | |
in the leadership election. It is very finely balanced. The | :28:01. | :28:20. | |
figures I would have would be 16 members that clearly support Corbyn | :28:21. | :28:27. | |
and maybe 17 that don't. Do you agree with that? Yes, I think it is | :28:28. | :28:36. | |
very finely balanced. With the recent elections, with Jeremy Corbyn | :28:37. | :28:43. | |
supporters winning all those seeds, if not tipping the balance. What | :28:44. | :28:47. | |
about this decision to appoint Scottish and Welsh representatives | :28:48. | :28:51. | |
to the NEC? I understand as it stands at the moment that they would | :28:52. | :28:54. | |
be appointed by the leaders of the Scottish and Welsh Labour parties. | :28:55. | :28:58. | |
In other words, appointed by Labour sceptics. Will that switch the | :28:59. | :29:03. | |
balance more against Mr Corbyn? On its own merits it's a good thing | :29:04. | :29:07. | |
because it is an obvious gap that there hasn't been Scottish and Welsh | :29:08. | :29:13. | |
representation, but if you look at the front is in those two countries, | :29:14. | :29:17. | |
it probably wouldn't be hugely helpful to him. What would you think | :29:18. | :29:23. | |
of that? I agree it probably would change the balance of power. I'm | :29:24. | :29:26. | |
really disappointed with how this has come about and I think it's | :29:27. | :29:30. | |
incredibly important to have elected Scottish and Welsh representative. | :29:31. | :29:38. | |
So you think that if we do have Scottish and Welsh representatives, | :29:39. | :29:41. | |
they should be elected by the membership in Scotland and Wales? | :29:42. | :29:45. | |
Absolutely. It's not an interim think is not as if we're moving | :29:46. | :29:49. | |
towards having better representation, it's actually taking | :29:50. | :29:53. | |
an incredibly important issue of the table. During the Commons review, | :29:54. | :29:59. | |
the moderate wing of the party actually put forward proposals that | :30:00. | :30:04. | |
would have guaranteed members on the NEC LX did buy one member one vote | :30:05. | :30:09. | |
from each nation and region of the UK and we didn't manage to get that | :30:10. | :30:13. | |
through and in fact the left of the party opposed it at the time. Or is | :30:14. | :30:18. | |
it going to happen, the Scottish and Welsh wraps being appointed? I | :30:19. | :30:23. | |
understand there may be attempt to overturn it this week on the | :30:24. | :30:27. | |
conference floor. I think that's probably one of the more interesting | :30:28. | :30:29. | |
things that will happen this week, it will probably go to a vote on | :30:30. | :30:35. | |
conference floor. I'm probably reasonably confident at least on the | :30:36. | :30:38. | |
side of the constituency delegates that moderates did well in those. | :30:39. | :30:48. | |
Three members of the Shadow Cabinet get to go on to the NEC and that | :30:49. | :30:52. | |
could change the balance of power as well. Are you in favour of elections | :30:53. | :30:56. | |
for the Shadow Cabinet, and if so, by whom? In principle... Again, I | :30:57. | :31:05. | |
don't want to take this conversation out of context and don't think you | :31:06. | :31:09. | |
can. This is all about political Moon over in again. My concern is | :31:10. | :31:17. | |
this is to undermine Corbyn. I'm not a fan of people saying they won't | :31:18. | :31:24. | |
serve unless elected. I am accountable to members. How would | :31:25. | :31:27. | |
you like to see the Shadow Cabinet chosen, then? I would be willing to | :31:28. | :31:33. | |
listen to the practicalities about the accommodation of having it | :31:34. | :31:36. | |
entirely elected by members. All elected? | :31:37. | :31:41. | |
But not by the PLP? That could be compromise. There was one third, one | :31:42. | :31:50. | |
third, one third. I would consider that, an electoral college. The PLP | :31:51. | :31:59. | |
could choose the Shadow Cabinet, as has been suggested. Will Corbyn | :32:00. | :32:05. | |
agree to that? It depends if Jeremy is serious about what he says about | :32:06. | :32:11. | |
party unity and olive branches. I want to at least see functional | :32:12. | :32:14. | |
unity where the Labour Party gets on with its job of holding the Tories | :32:15. | :32:17. | |
to account and attacking the weak government. In order to do that you | :32:18. | :32:22. | |
need people to come back who resigned this summer. There will not | :32:23. | :32:24. | |
come back unless they have an independent mandate from the PLP. A | :32:25. | :32:29. | |
few might but to get everyone re-engaged there has got to be some | :32:30. | :32:34. | |
kind of concession who were unhappy with Jeremy Bosman leadership, it is | :32:35. | :32:39. | |
political reality. Mr Corbyn has won two leadership elections in a row. | :32:40. | :32:43. | |
If MPs who were disillusioned with him continue to snap, in the words | :32:44. | :32:52. | |
of Len McCluskey, the Unite leader, do they risk the selection and | :32:53. | :32:55. | |
should they? I don't like talking about the selection process is like | :32:56. | :33:00. | |
that, it makes it seem like people are trying to seize power. That's a | :33:01. | :33:04. | |
decision for local parties. The conversation we should be having, | :33:05. | :33:07. | |
and why this conversation has come about because of mandatory | :33:08. | :33:11. | |
deselection, it's because people are unhappy, there is a rift between the | :33:12. | :33:15. | |
PLP and party members and that must be resolved, and it can be in other | :33:16. | :33:18. | |
ways apart from mandatory deselection. I think those other | :33:19. | :33:22. | |
ways should be the priority. Aren't we in a process where the | :33:23. | :33:26. | |
Parliamentary Labour Party now has to change to reflect the membership | :33:27. | :33:30. | |
of the new Labour Party? At the moment there is a disconnect between | :33:31. | :33:33. | |
the kind of people who have signed up to join Labour and the sort of | :33:34. | :33:38. | |
people who represent Labour in the PLP. Is it not inevitable that some | :33:39. | :33:42. | |
of these will be changed in the months and years ahead? Or the other | :33:43. | :33:47. | |
way it could happen is that the composition of the membership could | :33:48. | :33:52. | |
change to reflect Labour voters more. At the moment we have a | :33:53. | :33:55. | |
membership that his weight to the left even of the people who already | :33:56. | :34:01. | |
vote Labour. Demographically it is dominated by graduates and well off | :34:02. | :34:04. | |
people from the south of England so it doesn't represent the Labour | :34:05. | :34:08. | |
heartlands. So are you going to start a centrist Momentum? There was | :34:09. | :34:15. | |
an initial amount of work on recruitment, one of the mistakes in | :34:16. | :34:18. | |
the leadership election was not have a lot in the phase that you could | :34:19. | :34:21. | |
reach out to the country and persuade loads of people to come | :34:22. | :34:29. | |
back. The moderate wing of the party will not win until we learn how to | :34:30. | :34:34. | |
recruit a mass membership in the same way Jeremy Corbyn has done. | :34:35. | :34:37. | |
It's going to be an interesting time at the NEC. It will be interesting! | :34:38. | :34:44. | |
It's just gone 11.37am, you're watching the Sunday Politics. | :34:45. | :34:46. | |
We say goodbye to viewers in Scotland who leave us now | :34:47. | :34:49. | |
Hello and welcome to Sunday Politics in Northern Ireland. | :34:50. | :34:58. | |
Agreement is reached on the Twaddell Avenue | :34:59. | :35:00. | |
So what are the possible pitfalls? in the area is happy. | :35:01. | :35:07. | |
The Stormont Speaker has called a halt to Private Members' | :35:08. | :35:09. | |
bills because officials have been overwhelmed. | :35:10. | :35:11. | |
We'll hear what one MLA and a former Committee Clerk make of the move. | :35:12. | :35:18. | |
Plus, an overwhelming endorsement from the membership, | :35:19. | :35:20. | |
but can Jeremy Corbyn now unite the Labour Party? | :35:21. | :35:23. | |
And with their thoughts on it all, journalists Sam McBride | :35:24. | :35:25. | |
The agreement over the Twaddell Avenue loyalist dispute has | :35:26. | :35:36. | |
been broadly welcomed, with politicians and | :35:37. | :35:38. | |
police describing it as a positive development. | :35:39. | :35:41. | |
The deal was announced in a statement on Friday by two | :35:42. | :35:44. | |
mediators, the Reverend Harold Good and the businessman Jim Roddy. | :35:45. | :35:47. | |
However, one residents group in Ardoyne has opposed the deal | :35:48. | :35:50. | |
Let's hear what Allison and Sam make of the development. | :35:51. | :35:59. | |
Morning to you both. If the agreement enough to resolve the | :36:00. | :36:05. | |
issue once and for all do you think, Allison? I think there's an appetite | :36:06. | :36:09. | |
to see the end of that protest up there. It must've cost over ?20 | :36:10. | :36:13. | |
million to police those parades, so there's an appetite to get rid of | :36:14. | :36:19. | |
it. The problem, the dissent if you like, is there was not dialogue | :36:20. | :36:22. | |
involving all groups so with two groups who negotiated this deal | :36:23. | :36:26. | |
between them, the same deal which is has been more or less on the table | :36:27. | :36:29. | |
for the last three years. There's nothing different about it. There is | :36:30. | :36:34. | |
no secret recipe to end it. They've managed to get it over the line and | :36:35. | :36:38. | |
the cynics are saying it's a fresh start, a huge financial carrot to | :36:39. | :36:44. | |
end the protest. The key question is, with GARC not being involved, | :36:45. | :36:50. | |
does that mean there is a serious question over whether or not this | :36:51. | :36:56. | |
deal will stick? Obviously, there will be parades. I've been covering | :36:57. | :37:01. | |
them for years, and regardless what is said, there's very rarely any | :37:02. | :37:05. | |
trouble at the morning parades, which tend to pass off peacefully | :37:06. | :37:12. | |
enough. I think the deal will stick. Obviously, there is also dissent in | :37:13. | :37:18. | |
the loyalists. One of the lodgers has resigned, there's only a handful | :37:19. | :37:21. | |
left. They say they were not involved in negotiations of the deal | :37:22. | :37:25. | |
and all sides are trying to sell this as a success to their | :37:26. | :37:28. | |
supporters and both of them can't be right so someone was obviously the | :37:29. | :37:33. | |
loser. Why do you think the deed has been reached this stage? There's | :37:34. | :37:38. | |
been a sense of exhaustion on both sides. Allison is right, | :37:39. | :37:41. | |
fundamentally this deal is not massively different to what has been | :37:42. | :37:45. | |
on offer for a very long time, but to get to the point where people are | :37:46. | :37:50. | |
prepared to compromise, there has to be a period where people say, | :37:51. | :37:54. | |
actually, things are not going to change. We saw over the last humans, | :37:55. | :37:59. | |
with the lodge walking away from the talks with the open split on display | :38:00. | :38:05. | |
on the 12th night, only one large paraded up the police lines and the | :38:06. | :38:07. | |
others left hanging in public, there were split emerging on the unionist | :38:08. | :38:15. | |
side, we obviously have always had these two residents groups and the | :38:16. | :38:20. | |
Nationalists, and there was a pragmatic sense that if they could | :38:21. | :38:24. | |
find some sort of deal which could be presented to their supporters as | :38:25. | :38:28. | |
an honourable compromise, that there was an appetite there to take it. | :38:29. | :38:32. | |
Allison, presumably, the biggest hurdle in immediate future is what | :38:33. | :38:36. | |
happens next, Saturday morning, for the return parade, one of the key | :38:37. | :38:42. | |
contentious issues in the past three years. How do you think that might | :38:43. | :38:48. | |
unfold? If that parade goes passed peacefully, think that was the an | :38:49. | :38:53. | |
end to disputes in that area. If it doesn't, there will have to be a | :38:54. | :38:58. | |
huge police presence there if people are protesting full spit could | :38:59. | :39:01. | |
derail the entire thing. At this point in time, people are just more | :39:02. | :39:05. | |
wary in that area and have had enough, and there's an appetite to | :39:06. | :39:11. | |
save us all. Very quickly, Sam, were you surprised there was a week are | :39:12. | :39:15. | |
to allow potentially pitfalls between the agreement being reached | :39:16. | :39:18. | |
and the Saturday parade? I think there was always at every stage of | :39:19. | :39:24. | |
this process, when various deals were put forward, there was a time | :39:25. | :39:28. | |
frame between the deal being agreed and the parade happening. I'm not | :39:29. | :39:30. | |
sure whether the police required that, but I think there's a big test | :39:31. | :39:38. | |
for Sinn Fein. There are two groups, can they carry that deal through | :39:39. | :39:43. | |
when they were once completely dominant? This Republican group at | :39:44. | :39:52. | |
the weekend launched, where did think the whole movement? There's an | :39:53. | :39:56. | |
appetite in a nationalist community for an alternative. I think they | :39:57. | :40:03. | |
missed an opportunity, the launch of their party in Newry over the | :40:04. | :40:08. | |
weekend, they had a chance to layout the install -- their stall but it | :40:09. | :40:16. | |
just turned into a Sinn Fein exercise I don't think there's much | :40:17. | :40:21. | |
to set them apart. OK, we would get a lot more from you later in the | :40:22. | :40:25. | |
programme. But, for now, thank you very much indeed. | :40:26. | :40:26. | |
The Speaker of the Assembly is pressing the pause button | :40:27. | :40:28. | |
Already this year, 19 draft bills have been submitted compared to 25 | :40:29. | :40:32. | |
in the whole of the last Assembly term and now Robin Newton has | :40:33. | :40:35. | |
In a letter to the Chair of the Committee on Procedures, | :40:36. | :40:41. | |
With me is the former Clerk of Bills at the Assembly, Alan Patterson, | :40:42. | :40:49. | |
and the North Belfast MLA Nichola Mallon. | :40:50. | :40:56. | |
Welcome to you both. You have a private members bill in the system | :40:57. | :41:03. | |
at the moment, so you are one of the 19, so I suppose from a personal | :41:04. | :41:06. | |
point of view you must be happy you are in before the pause button has | :41:07. | :41:10. | |
been pressed but I do not happy that the speaker has gone down this | :41:11. | :41:13. | |
route? Yes, certainly I tabled my private method Bill on the first | :41:14. | :41:18. | |
ever mandate because there was a glaring gap there. I think this is M | :41:19. | :41:23. | |
and healthy move full so we are elected to be legislators and people | :41:24. | :41:27. | |
expect us to have ideas and to bring forward legislation and their is not | :41:28. | :41:31. | |
an overwhelming amount of legislation coming from the | :41:32. | :41:35. | |
Executive. In fact, the Justice minister says she intends to bring | :41:36. | :41:38. | |
forward no primary legislation before June so there's a | :41:39. | :41:41. | |
responsibility on us and what is concerning me is that we see another | :41:42. | :41:46. | |
attempt to stifle opposition. People expect us to bring forward | :41:47. | :41:51. | |
legislation. MLAs put a lot of work into identifying where the gaps and | :41:52. | :41:55. | |
addressing those and this banner which is absolutely no time limit | :41:56. | :41:59. | |
put on it, is something I think all Democrats should be concerned about. | :42:00. | :42:02. | |
Do you not accept the speaker is trying to deal with an issue not of | :42:03. | :42:06. | |
his making whereby the system simply was not designed to cope with this | :42:07. | :42:10. | |
level of interest in private members bills? He's made clear in his | :42:11. | :42:15. | |
letter, he doesn't want to stifle opposition and things private | :42:16. | :42:17. | |
members bills are an essential part of what the Assembly does. It's | :42:18. | :42:20. | |
simply the system isn't there to cope. Why has he not put a time | :42:21. | :42:25. | |
frame on this band? Why has he not so clearly it's a resource issue and | :42:26. | :42:31. | |
it's something they want to address from a resource perspective? There's | :42:32. | :42:34. | |
only six members of staff in the Belfast office serving all of the | :42:35. | :42:38. | |
MLAs and that's something we need to look at because it's not simply that | :42:39. | :42:44. | |
there are no resources. We have over 150 people in communications across | :42:45. | :42:47. | |
the Executive who are able to find money for a high least paid spin | :42:48. | :42:52. | |
doctor so we need to look at putting more resources into the bill office | :42:53. | :42:55. | |
to make sure we have more robust legislation come forward. Were you | :42:56. | :43:01. | |
surprised by the move? I think legislation is a fundamental role of | :43:02. | :43:05. | |
the Assembly and this move will disproportionately affect opposition | :43:06. | :43:12. | |
parties. Because the MLAs and the governing parties will have | :43:13. | :43:15. | |
opportunities through ministers to bring forward legislation. I think | :43:16. | :43:17. | |
the speaker would be better looking at changing the process which is | :43:18. | :43:23. | |
many years out of date. He's launched a review. He - to the | :43:24. | :43:27. | |
committee procedures and said look at this. That's what he's doing. | :43:28. | :43:34. | |
That might take some time. There's other things they will look at at | :43:35. | :43:39. | |
this stage. It may be six months, a year down the line before | :43:40. | :43:41. | |
recommendations of the report comes out, meanwhile, MLAs won't have the | :43:42. | :43:47. | |
opportunity to bring forward legislation. Maybe many could be | :43:48. | :43:52. | |
brought forward but the vast majority go nowhere. Between | :43:53. | :43:59. | |
1999-2011, only two actually got written into law. It's a huge cost | :44:00. | :44:04. | |
to the Assembly in terms of the taxpayer, in terms of bringing | :44:05. | :44:08. | |
forward legislation which could go anywhere. The system needs to change | :44:09. | :44:16. | |
now. What do you suggest, it's a waste of time? That's one | :44:17. | :44:19. | |
conclusion. It's a waste of time because disenfranchises MLAs and | :44:20. | :44:23. | |
demotivate people and their interests. They find they can't | :44:24. | :44:28. | |
bring forward change through legislation effectively so it's not | :44:29. | :44:31. | |
a question of wanting to diminish the role of ministers but ministers | :44:32. | :44:38. | |
can't provide resources, but the don't provide any resources, any | :44:39. | :44:46. | |
support. The Bill office, it's a voluntary basis, time to spare after | :44:47. | :44:49. | |
they deal with Executive decisions. A lot of would-be legislation | :44:50. | :44:55. | |
brought forward by MLAs isn't up to the mark. It is shoddy work. I have | :44:56. | :45:01. | |
to say if you look at some of the most significant pieces of | :45:02. | :45:03. | |
legislation which came forward in the last mandate, they were from | :45:04. | :45:09. | |
private members bills. John McAllister. Stephen Naidoo. That's | :45:10. | :45:15. | |
two. That was a statutory obligation to work in the best interests of | :45:16. | :45:20. | |
children. Yes, not every built comes forward because sometimes Department | :45:21. | :45:25. | |
subsume them. There were 19 tabled throughout the five year life of the | :45:26. | :45:28. | |
Assembly and when the speaker says there's been 25 in three months, | :45:29. | :45:31. | |
seven system can't cope. It was designed to cope with up pressures | :45:32. | :45:35. | |
of last mandate, this mandate will be choked up in no time. We knew | :45:36. | :45:39. | |
that there was going to be an opposition this time round we've | :45:40. | :45:43. | |
known that, we knew we were going to have an increase in terms of | :45:44. | :45:46. | |
legislation coming forward. The debate needs to be how we better | :45:47. | :45:49. | |
resource the bill 's office, not about the fact you put a stop on | :45:50. | :45:53. | |
private members bills. The Assembly is a legislative Assembly which has | :45:54. | :45:58. | |
a duty to bring forward legislation not to stifle it. If it assigned you | :45:59. | :46:04. | |
think of political maturity, the fact that now there were 25 pieces | :46:05. | :46:09. | |
of private members legislation brought forward into the system | :46:10. | :46:15. | |
throughout the whole five-year mandate we've just seen. 19 so far. | :46:16. | :46:20. | |
Does it suggest MLAs are beginning to get to grips with the process of | :46:21. | :46:24. | |
legislating? I don't think they are. If you look at the number of | :46:25. | :46:28. | |
amendments tabled by non-government members and private members on | :46:29. | :46:31. | |
legislation in general, they tend to come from ministers. So experience | :46:32. | :46:38. | |
in dealing with legislation is not in the Assembly. If you go to Wales | :46:39. | :46:41. | |
or Scotland, they have specialised units. Scots have ballots. In | :46:42. | :46:50. | |
Scotland, any member can bring forward bills in any one session. | :46:51. | :46:53. | |
They have a unit which provides all the support they need in terms of | :46:54. | :46:58. | |
drafting, writing speeches, getting evidence, consultation, in Scotland, | :46:59. | :47:00. | |
they have dedicated build teams for members. In Northern Ireland, the | :47:01. | :47:10. | |
bill office provide support if they can afford to do it. So there is | :47:11. | :47:14. | |
variable amount of resources. Members are spending a huge at a | :47:15. | :47:17. | |
time and resources during the consultation exercises, which then | :47:18. | :47:21. | |
go to the speaker who decides quite wrongly whether it could be selected | :47:22. | :47:27. | |
for drafting. So we need to live by benchmarking how things work in | :47:28. | :47:30. | |
Stormont with elsewhere in the UK and maybe indeed in the Republic as | :47:31. | :47:34. | |
well? In everything you look around to see best practice and you try to | :47:35. | :47:37. | |
learn best practice where you can find it, so certainly... Would a | :47:38. | :47:43. | |
ballot to be a good idea? I didn't get myself a left it as a MLA to be | :47:44. | :47:47. | |
involved in a potluck scenario to see if my name is pulled out of a | :47:48. | :47:51. | |
hat. That happens in Westminster. There's other range of options to | :47:52. | :47:56. | |
look at but certainly six members of staff in a bills office, if we're | :47:57. | :47:59. | |
serious about bringing forward legislative change, that's not good | :48:00. | :48:02. | |
enough and that's the key issue in all of this. Finally, let me ask you | :48:03. | :48:06. | |
about the subject before the Dell from the programme. Your reaction to | :48:07. | :48:14. | |
the deal between the Ligoniel Orange lodges and the Crumlin/Ardoyne | :48:15. | :48:15. | |
Residents' Association. Do you believe it is a significant progress | :48:16. | :48:19. | |
and a deal which could and should stick? I certainly think it's a | :48:20. | :48:23. | |
positive step that I think the voluntary nature of this agreement, | :48:24. | :48:31. | |
for understanding, as our First Minister Corsican has brought | :48:32. | :48:33. | |
anxiety to the people of Ardoyne based on their experiences over many | :48:34. | :48:36. | |
years, but I think Allison is right. The critical thing here is that | :48:37. | :48:41. | |
everyone has signed up with a clear understanding of what's expected of | :48:42. | :48:44. | |
them and what they can expect of the others. What we don't want to get to | :48:45. | :48:48. | |
is a situation where people are very different understandings of what | :48:49. | :48:51. | |
will come out of this process. That's so is the seeds of | :48:52. | :48:54. | |
discontent. It's not helpful in trying to get us where we all want | :48:55. | :48:58. | |
to be, to find a permanent resolution, and agreed resolution to | :48:59. | :49:04. | |
the dispute at Ardoyne. We believe that here. Thank you both very much | :49:05. | :49:05. | |
indeed. Let's hear more | :49:06. | :49:08. | |
from Sam and Allison. Heartening to see the enthusiasm | :49:09. | :49:09. | |
of MLAs to get legislation? The pause button has been pressed. | :49:10. | :49:16. | |
We have a review and you've heard some of the challenges the review is | :49:17. | :49:20. | |
going to face. Do you think the resources are not there to do the | :49:21. | :49:25. | |
job properly? That's exactly what it comes down to, classic example of | :49:26. | :49:28. | |
storm want shooting itself in the foot. Lots of us have been | :49:29. | :49:31. | |
incredibly critical of the Assembly for padding at the order paper with | :49:32. | :49:37. | |
his private members motions, lack of legislation. The minute MLAs get | :49:38. | :49:41. | |
stuck in to do their job, and there's a lot of work to do, years | :49:42. | :49:46. | |
of work, they are told there are not the resources to do it. You've got | :49:47. | :49:50. | |
to question the priorities of an Assembly which has the money to | :49:51. | :49:52. | |
subsidise its canteen but doesn't have the money to adequately | :49:53. | :49:56. | |
resource is what is its primary function, bring forward legislation. | :49:57. | :50:02. | |
Eamon McCann says, in his view, private members bills give meaning | :50:03. | :50:10. | |
to being a MLA and his open to table a private members bill on an | :50:11. | :50:13. | |
environmental protection agency but he's not one of the 19, so his | :50:14. | :50:18. | |
private members bill is not in the system and is going to go nowhere | :50:19. | :50:21. | |
for the foreseeable future. Can you see the frustration on his part and | :50:22. | :50:26. | |
the part of others? Obviously and because there's been a time frame | :50:27. | :50:29. | |
but on this review, we don't know when the system is going to start | :50:30. | :50:33. | |
working again. We need a healthy opposition and we need these matters | :50:34. | :50:37. | |
to be pushed through and the issue here is definitely resourcing. Six | :50:38. | :50:42. | |
members of staff in an Assembly which has 120 press officers, it's | :50:43. | :50:47. | |
ridiculous. It had curtailing the opposition 's voice? Yes, maybe that | :50:48. | :50:50. | |
was intentional but that's what's going to happen. The opposition will | :50:51. | :50:54. | |
be penalised as a result. Thanks both of you. | :50:55. | :50:55. | |
Jeremy Corbyn's victory over Owen Smith to retain the Labour | :50:56. | :50:57. | |
leadership leaves him at the head of a deeply divided party. | :50:58. | :51:00. | |
As delegates gather in Liverpool for their annual conference, | :51:01. | :51:02. | |
our correspondent, Stephen Walker, is there. | :51:03. | :51:06. | |
I asked him how he would sum up the mood after yesterday's result? | :51:07. | :51:10. | |
Today is a bit like the calm after the storm. Yesterday was an exciting | :51:11. | :51:18. | |
day obviously with the leadership, the election of Jeremy Corbyn | :51:19. | :51:24. | |
beating Owen Smith pretty successfully. His supporters were | :51:25. | :51:28. | |
thrilled and delighted because not only was he re-elected, but | :51:29. | :51:32. | |
re-elected with a bigger majority, so they are delighted. The talk here | :51:33. | :51:37. | |
is about the party coming together. Jeremy Corbyn used these words in | :51:38. | :51:40. | |
his speech of wiping the slate clean and people want to know exactly what | :51:41. | :51:44. | |
that means. A lot of people are talking about the party moving on, | :51:45. | :51:47. | |
coming together as a party, listening to the criticisms that | :51:48. | :51:51. | |
actually getting their act together so they can form an effective | :51:52. | :51:54. | |
opposition at Westminster. One of those who feels the party needs to | :51:55. | :52:00. | |
move on now is the Shadow Secretary of State Dave Anderson, and here is | :52:01. | :52:03. | |
a little of what he has been saying. I'm glad it's all over. So we can | :52:04. | :52:07. | |
get on with a day job, government. Doing what we should be doing. Not | :52:08. | :52:13. | |
people wrapped up in self-interest. We've got to focus on that. My | :52:14. | :52:17. | |
colleagues who perhaps have been upset with the leadership, they've | :52:18. | :52:22. | |
listen to what the members say and recognise the members and now we get | :52:23. | :52:27. | |
together to do the right thing for the country. Dave Anderson striking | :52:28. | :52:32. | |
a positive note that the issue of Jeremy Corbyn 's leadership is | :52:33. | :52:36. | |
simply not going to go away? It's not. We've had the result, it is | :52:37. | :52:40. | |
definitive, but those problems, as you say, have not gone away. Those | :52:41. | :52:46. | |
criticisms of his style, direction, manner, are not going away. | :52:47. | :52:50. | |
Essentially you have two camps, the membership who are for him, he's | :52:51. | :52:55. | |
elected with 60%, a lot of them are new members for the Jeremy Corbyn | :52:56. | :52:59. | |
has galvanised the party, brought in new members, very organised and | :53:00. | :53:02. | |
active and are left wing and are backing Jeremy Corbyn and then you | :53:03. | :53:05. | |
have the other blog, the Parliamentary Labour Party, which | :53:06. | :53:09. | |
are anti-Jeremy Corbyn full of so many resigned from the Shadow | :53:10. | :53:13. | |
Cabinet. Is there some kind of comp demise, some kind of accommodation | :53:14. | :53:16. | |
which can take place between these two blocks and other party can move | :53:17. | :53:21. | |
forward? That's the trick people are talking about here in Liverpool. How | :53:22. | :53:27. | |
visible is Northern Ireland on the conference agenda? It used to be a | :53:28. | :53:33. | |
big thing during the days of the peace process. Those days have gone | :53:34. | :53:36. | |
so it's not high up the agenda. But there are still fringe meetings | :53:37. | :53:41. | |
taking place around the conference agenda. People are still talking | :53:42. | :53:44. | |
about it, Dave Anderson, he's talking about Northern Ireland | :53:45. | :53:49. | |
today. There's a meeting tonight about Brexit, of course another | :53:50. | :53:53. | |
massive issue. Mary Lou McDonald from Sinn Fein will speak about | :53:54. | :53:58. | |
event. Colin Eastwood from the SDLP will be here tomorrow, so Northern | :53:59. | :54:01. | |
Ireland is being talked about on the fringes and on Tuesday we have a | :54:02. | :54:04. | |
traditional thing which happened at all the conferences, the traditional | :54:05. | :54:08. | |
Ulster fried breakfast when the speaker will be Martin McGuinness, | :54:09. | :54:12. | |
so Northern Ireland isn't high on the agenda but still being | :54:13. | :54:13. | |
discussed. Jeremy Corbyn's re-election isn't | :54:14. | :54:17. | |
necessarily good news for members No, it's a double-edged sword | :54:18. | :54:26. | |
because membership in Northern Ireland is pro-Corbyn. 70% voted for | :54:27. | :54:32. | |
Jeremy. They are particular to centre, people who believe Jeremy | :54:33. | :54:34. | |
Corbyn's vision for the Labour Party is but on the other hand, they want | :54:35. | :54:38. | |
to organise in Northern Ireland and the leadership of the Labour Party | :54:39. | :54:42. | |
either doesn't want it or is lukewarm about it, so what the | :54:43. | :54:46. | |
activists are doing in Liverpool, and there's a dozen will come over, | :54:47. | :54:50. | |
they are lobbying other delegates to try to see if they could support the | :54:51. | :54:55. | |
whole idea of labour candidates standing in Northern Ireland, but | :54:56. | :54:57. | |
they know it's going to be an uphill struggle. Stephen Walker in | :54:58. | :54:59. | |
Liverpool. Now for a look back at the political | :55:00. | :55:00. | |
week in 60 seconds. The week began with the news man | :55:01. | :55:03. | |
still making the headlines as MLAs Mac is bigger families gave the | :55:04. | :55:16. | |
Executive two weeks to release funding for troubles inquests. They | :55:17. | :55:20. | |
are in breach of the human race on this issue. I ask the Secretary of | :55:21. | :55:24. | |
State to read the Council of Europe report which clearly said it was its | :55:25. | :55:30. | |
responsibility and responsibility of the UK Government. | :55:31. | :55:32. | |
Gerry Adams denies claims he sanctioned the murder of IRA | :55:33. | :55:34. | |
It's alive. I specifically denied. This minister is refusing to say how | :55:35. | :55:46. | |
he voted. Which way did you vote? Of course you're going to have | :55:47. | :55:51. | |
differences. People are not interested in how I voted. They are. | :55:52. | :55:59. | |
Right royal row over Spain went on. As a proud Republican, how do you | :56:00. | :56:08. | |
feel about exercising? I feel grand. Absolutely grand. | :56:09. | :56:08. | |
LAUGHTER And let's have a final word | :56:09. | :56:13. | |
from Allison and Sam. Just to pick up on Jeremy Corbyn Mac | :56:14. | :56:24. | |
boss re-election. Westminster politics looks like it could be | :56:25. | :56:27. | |
pretty action packed in the near future, doesn't it? I think the | :56:28. | :56:31. | |
Parliamentary Labour Party shot themselves in the foot when they | :56:32. | :56:35. | |
launched an attack on Jeremy Corbyn at a time the Tories were having | :56:36. | :56:39. | |
significant problems in their own party. They could've let that sit | :56:40. | :56:42. | |
for a while. I think now the membership has shown overwhelming | :56:43. | :56:46. | |
support for him, they will have to buckle down and accept he's their | :56:47. | :56:50. | |
leader. And make some kind of compromise. Otherwise they will be | :56:51. | :56:57. | |
unelectable for a generation. What is your assessment? Do you think | :56:58. | :57:00. | |
Jeremy Corbyn can remain long-term if the majority of his MPs don't | :57:01. | :57:03. | |
back him and the party continues to struggle in the polls? It is an | :57:04. | :57:08. | |
unprecedented extraordinary situation because they changed the | :57:09. | :57:12. | |
rules. We have no background to that but I think a lot of members of the | :57:13. | :57:15. | |
public will say all politicians are the same, there no difference | :57:16. | :57:19. | |
between them. We're in a situation now where people can't say that. We | :57:20. | :57:23. | |
have a real opportunity here to see the difference between Labour and | :57:24. | :57:26. | |
the Conservatives and in the nature of Donald Trump, people may be | :57:27. | :57:34. | |
writing of Jeremy Corbyn of it too early. Certainly when you compare | :57:35. | :57:38. | |
him with Donald Trump, is much more credible politician with a long | :57:39. | :57:42. | |
track record, albeit it's pretty extraordinary if he was ever Prime | :57:43. | :57:46. | |
Minister. A fascinating situation. It will keep us busy in the weeks | :57:47. | :57:49. | |
and months ahead. Thank you both very much indeed. | :57:50. | :57:51. | |
and months ahead. Thank you both and he said it | :57:52. | :57:51. | |
And that's it for now. and he said it is worse than under | :57:52. | :57:52. | |
Back to Andrew in London. Stalin! | :57:53. | :58:07. | |
Welcome back - and we're joined now by John Prescott, who's been coming | :58:08. | :58:10. | |
to Labour Conferences for more than 50 years. | :58:11. | :58:12. | |
And our political panel, Tom Newton-Dunn, Rachel Shabi | :58:13. | :58:14. | |
John Prescott, welcome back to the Sunday Politics and a Labour | :58:15. | :58:21. | |
conference. In a much changed Liverpool! I can't believe it. That | :58:22. | :58:29. | |
looks amazing. Has the Labour Party ever been at a low ahead in the past | :58:30. | :58:35. | |
50 is? It's an interesting question. I hear everyone going back 50 years | :58:36. | :58:40. | |
but we've always had fierce battles in the Labour Party, whether it was | :58:41. | :58:44. | |
nuclear or the left or the right, we used to fight over the Treasurer's | :58:45. | :58:49. | |
vote! There have always been those strong battles. It has become more | :58:50. | :58:54. | |
personal now, it is more abuse than argument and we've got to move away | :58:55. | :58:59. | |
from that. Do you share the fears of your old colleague Neil Kinnock, | :59:00. | :59:05. | |
that there might not be another Labour government in his lifetime? | :59:06. | :59:09. | |
Who was that? Neil Kinnock, former leader of the Labour Party? When I | :59:10. | :59:17. | |
heard him saying there will never be another Labour government in his | :59:18. | :59:21. | |
lifetime... Basically, Neil, you did lose to elections and Michael foot | :59:22. | :59:27. | |
lost that election. We lost with Ed Miliband... There is no doubt he's | :59:28. | :59:31. | |
got great experience of that but he is wrong! I thought we would get to | :59:32. | :59:37. | |
the answer! Is the Labour Party at a very low ebb? It is, but I think | :59:38. | :59:42. | |
you're absolutely right, it is a great myth that in the past there | :59:43. | :59:46. | |
weren't huge, passionate internal debates. Under Wilson's leadership, | :59:47. | :59:53. | |
there were problems all over the place but he won for elections out | :59:54. | :59:58. | |
of five, he always used to say. It has become much more personal now | :59:59. | :00:01. | |
with the social media thing going on in that kind of raises it to a | :00:02. | :00:03. | |
different temperature. If it was accepted they could argue | :00:04. | :00:13. | |
over policy, as was in the past and as will be the case with the | :00:14. | :00:16. | |
Conservatives over Brexit, then there might be a way of working | :00:17. | :00:20. | |
around this. As things stand at the moment it is a completely | :00:21. | :00:23. | |
nightmarish, circuitous debate where the MPs slack him off and his | :00:24. | :00:27. | |
supporters slack them off and it gets nowhere. The danger for Labour | :00:28. | :00:31. | |
is earlier in the programme we talked about elections to the NEC | :00:32. | :00:34. | |
and who will hold the balance of power there and the battles coming | :00:35. | :00:38. | |
of the argument over how to choose the Shadow Cabinet, Labour can't | :00:39. | :00:41. | |
afford another year of talking about itself. No, that is right, and the | :00:42. | :00:48. | |
public isn't remotely interested in these very tedious internal | :00:49. | :00:50. | |
machinations. Look, Jeremy Corbyn has proved himself twice. There can | :00:51. | :00:56. | |
be no clearer message that the party really needs to put this behind them | :00:57. | :01:01. | |
and focus on unifying. I think the other great myth, we're talking | :01:02. | :01:05. | |
about the myths of history and time and the centre-right. The myth is | :01:06. | :01:08. | |
that they have all the answers. They clearly don't. They haven't been | :01:09. | :01:13. | |
able to persuade their own selectors of their own eligibility and they | :01:14. | :01:18. | |
haven't been able to persuade the general public that a right words | :01:19. | :01:22. | |
shifting Labour Party is preferable and desirable. So maybe it's time | :01:23. | :01:29. | |
for them to think, you know what, Jeremy Corbyn has won two leadership | :01:30. | :01:34. | |
elections, he has caused the party to be swelled, its ranks swelled and | :01:35. | :01:38. | |
it's the largest party in Europe and people are galvanised, motivated and | :01:39. | :01:41. | |
energised in a way they haven't been for so long. People have been | :01:42. | :01:45. | |
apathetic about politics for so long. May be that wing of the party | :01:46. | :01:48. | |
has something to learn from Corbyn rather than the other way around. I | :01:49. | :01:52. | |
couldn't get Heidi Alexander to answer this. Is there any doubt that | :01:53. | :01:57. | |
Jeremy Corbyn leads Labour into the 2020 election? I think there is a | :01:58. | :02:02. | |
small doubt. He could still be toppled. Who would topple him? The | :02:03. | :02:08. | |
unions. This massive force in Labour politics, centre-left politics, | :02:09. | :02:11. | |
which no one has come close to talking about in the last few days, | :02:12. | :02:14. | |
we have a huge election coming up the after next for the Unite union. | :02:15. | :02:23. | |
Len McCluskey is running again. If he stands down, they have already | :02:24. | :02:27. | |
lost the GMB and Unison are not fond of him, if he does go it is curtains | :02:28. | :02:32. | |
for him. It is about fundamental change taking place. Everyone of us | :02:33. | :02:36. | |
has got to think differently, including me. They have all got to | :02:37. | :02:41. | |
say for the party have said this with their new members, we have a | :02:42. | :02:44. | |
different way of doing things and we want some of the old policies | :02:45. | :02:48. | |
rehearsed and put forward again. The changes, whether in the PLP, the | :02:49. | :02:52. | |
trade unions or elsewhere, things have changed, it's a big change | :02:53. | :02:55. | |
coming to the Labour Party and thank God. I remember arguing with Tony | :02:56. | :02:59. | |
Blair whether we should call it new Labour or old Labour and he wanted | :03:00. | :03:03. | |
to call it new Labour and I said why don't we call it Labour. There is a | :03:04. | :03:09. | |
change in policy, they want fundamental change, they are | :03:10. | :03:13. | |
entitled to have it, he has won two elections, why do we think of the | :03:14. | :03:17. | |
revolutionary thought, he is our leader until the next election, get | :03:18. | :03:20. | |
on for the ride and fight the Tories instead of fighting ourselves. There | :03:21. | :03:24. | |
is one really good answer to that, that is all well and good but you | :03:25. | :03:28. | |
are 26% in the polls, an all-time historic low that is where Corbyn is | :03:29. | :03:32. | |
taking them. All too often we talk about the polls. Terrible | :03:33. | :03:41. | |
inconvenience! Let us go along this road, see how we can do it, the PLP, | :03:42. | :03:46. | |
let's just for the argument is about the election of the Shadow Cabinet. | :03:47. | :03:50. | |
The PLP voted against Shadow Cabinet is only two or three years ago and | :03:51. | :03:54. | |
now it wants them back. Quite right, I support them, I've been party to | :03:55. | :03:59. | |
them. For god sake, can get on with fighting the Tories, back the | :04:00. | :04:02. | |
leadership for the moment? I have to say to Jeremy, talking about splits | :04:03. | :04:08. | |
in part is, we have already wondering, Momentum crazy things, | :04:09. | :04:18. | |
argue the case for change. Electoral College instead of one man, one | :04:19. | :04:23. | |
vote. I've always fought for one man one vote. That would be going | :04:24. | :04:28. | |
backwards, would it not? It would strengthen the PLP. We have to look | :04:29. | :04:32. | |
at all of these fears and do a proper conference as I advocate, but | :04:33. | :04:37. | |
think about it first. We have ?3 members at Miliband came through and | :04:38. | :04:41. | |
whacked that through special conference. We need to think about | :04:42. | :04:45. | |
how we've done things in the past, trade unions, members of Parliament, | :04:46. | :04:50. | |
PLP members, they want change, they are entitled democratically to see | :04:51. | :04:54. | |
if we will listen to them at implement it democratically. Jeremy | :04:55. | :04:57. | |
must show leadership. What does showing leadership mean? There are | :04:58. | :05:02. | |
two things. The election of a Shadow Cabinet if you want to do that. | :05:03. | :05:06. | |
Elected by whom? That could be the PLP to begin with. We can't wait | :05:07. | :05:13. | |
until the conference comes along, 11th of October. These things are | :05:14. | :05:16. | |
constitutional. In the coming elections he is the leader, he could | :05:17. | :05:25. | |
put in people he feels he has to have their in the Shadow Cabinet, | :05:26. | :05:29. | |
because it's all about power distribution, and give the PLP the | :05:30. | :05:32. | |
right to put some people in and then look at the issues of whether other | :05:33. | :05:36. | |
members should be involved. That's the long-term. At the moment a team | :05:37. | :05:40. | |
ready for fighting Theresa May, she will be worse than Thatcher. We are | :05:41. | :05:46. | |
here in the great traditional Labour city, the heartland of traditional | :05:47. | :05:50. | |
Labour support. Does anybody in Liverpool care how the Shadow | :05:51. | :05:54. | |
Cabinet is selected? I doubt meet people just outside this building | :05:55. | :05:58. | |
are talking about that. They will be because they are journalists! I | :05:59. | :06:03. | |
don't even think they will be! In a way we are contradicting ourselves | :06:04. | :06:06. | |
because we are saying we should not spend time talking about it and we | :06:07. | :06:10. | |
are all talking about it. The so-called rebels misjudged this | :06:11. | :06:13. | |
completely in terms of timing, when they all resigned on the Sunday | :06:14. | :06:16. | |
after the referendum, they didn't ask, do we have a candidate? What | :06:17. | :06:20. | |
happens if Jeremy Corbyn doesn't go as a result of this and have they | :06:21. | :06:24. | |
got themes that can unite the rest of the membership, or a new | :06:25. | :06:33. | |
membership could to? We keep talking about the voters. Let's not talk | :06:34. | :06:36. | |
about the Shadow Cabinet because that is an insider conversation. | :06:37. | :06:41. | |
About the voters, we don't know whether Jeremy Corbyn is electable | :06:42. | :06:45. | |
or not. We don't know how he would fare with a united team behind him | :06:46. | :06:52. | |
with over 500,000 members canvassing, campaigning, talking | :06:53. | :06:57. | |
about his policies. We don't know if for this time, in a time when we are | :06:58. | :07:00. | |
dealing with massive inequalities, when we're dealing with rampant... | :07:01. | :07:05. | |
Just, food banks, child poverty and things that should not happen in one | :07:06. | :07:09. | |
of the wealthiest countries in the world. We don't know whether what | :07:10. | :07:13. | |
the Labour Party proposes under Jeremy Corbyn will resonate. We will | :07:14. | :07:16. | |
have a chance to find out. One of the things that is interesting is | :07:17. | :07:19. | |
that clearly the membership of the party has changed dramatically, even | :07:20. | :07:24. | |
in the past 12 months. Will the Parliamentary party change as a | :07:25. | :07:28. | |
result of that? There has been talk of the and reselection. This is what | :07:29. | :07:31. | |
Mr Corbyn had to say this morning. The relationship | :07:32. | :07:37. | |
between an MP and their It's not necessarily | :07:38. | :07:40. | |
all the policy tick It's also the relationships, | :07:41. | :07:43. | |
the community, the effectiveness of representation | :07:44. | :07:46. | |
and all those issues. Let's have a democratic discussion | :07:47. | :07:47. | |
and I think the vast majority of MPs will have | :07:48. | :07:50. | |
no problem whatsoever. Is it's not inevitable, given that | :07:51. | :08:01. | |
you've talked about it yourself, this huge change taking place in the | :08:02. | :08:05. | |
Labour Party membership, that the Parliamentary party will have to | :08:06. | :08:09. | |
change to reflect that? To some extent the PLP is the creation of | :08:10. | :08:13. | |
the previous membership, not the new membership. That is right. Some | :08:14. | :08:18. | |
people were opposing him within weeks when he was elected and | :08:19. | :08:21. | |
pulling out of the cabinet and I don't think they will change. They | :08:22. | :08:25. | |
might want to stay on the backbenches, they don't want to | :08:26. | :08:28. | |
divide the party so they will fight for the party from the backbenches. | :08:29. | :08:32. | |
The greater majority of those in the PLP they didn't want to go on this | :08:33. | :08:35. | |
road of no confidence, that was one when they were kidded into believing | :08:36. | :08:39. | |
that if they had a begin of no confidence he would pick of the | :08:40. | :08:42. | |
revolver and shoot himself. It never was going to happen. So let's say, | :08:43. | :08:47. | |
keep your view, if you don't want to get involved, fine, but now you are | :08:48. | :08:55. | |
required to take account, looking at the policy issues between us rather | :08:56. | :09:01. | |
than fighting ourselves. He has got to show leadership. He is the man in | :09:02. | :09:06. | |
charge of it. That's why the election of the Capanagh has become | :09:07. | :09:10. | |
more important inside the PLP. It's a struggle, isn't it? The PLP | :09:11. | :09:14. | |
produced a whole package of things with electoral reform. Let's get on | :09:15. | :09:18. | |
with that, put it on the side, get a team ready for October the 11th to | :09:19. | :09:22. | |
fight the Tories are using our energy and fighting the Tories and I | :09:23. | :09:25. | |
think the majority of MPs are on board for that. Will Rachel get to | :09:26. | :09:30. | |
see her united Labour Party behind Mr Corbyn going into another | :09:31. | :09:36. | |
election? No. This is it. We have to look at the facts on the table, the | :09:37. | :09:40. | |
Labour Party, the PLP and the people in the country, those people who | :09:41. | :09:44. | |
voted for Owen Smith, they are so far apart ideologically, the hard | :09:45. | :09:48. | |
left and there is the Blairite right and those two will never unite and | :09:49. | :09:52. | |
it's all very well John saying so and I admire your optimism but you | :09:53. | :09:56. | |
and I know it will not happen. It has got to for our people. The party | :09:57. | :10:02. | |
and our country wants it. If your press get onside instead of being so | :10:03. | :10:05. | |
vicious about Corbyn, not just your paper, but most of them have had a | :10:06. | :10:08. | |
kind of hostility that has not been seen before. It has taken ten | :10:09. | :10:14. | |
minutes but eventually we got there. Perhaps we will wait and see. The | :10:15. | :10:24. | |
ideological gap is as big as the 80s, partly because on both sides | :10:25. | :10:27. | |
there is a complete lack of clarity about what they believe in and where | :10:28. | :10:32. | |
they want to go. The early 80s, Roy Jenkins knew exactly what there were | :10:33. | :10:38. | |
four and so did Tony Benn. There is that clarity of vision now. It is | :10:39. | :10:42. | |
all blurred and muddled so there is a problem and an opportunity there. | :10:43. | :10:47. | |
Second, I think the crunch point in this Parliament for Jeremy Corbyn, | :10:48. | :10:51. | |
not now obviously, but if and when the Tories have a crisis over Brexit | :10:52. | :10:58. | |
and if at that point Labour are 25, 20 6% in the polls he will have a | :10:59. | :11:03. | |
crisis. Let me interrupt you because the really big political event | :11:04. | :11:07. | |
yesterday wasn't what was happening here in Liverpool, it happened on | :11:08. | :11:12. | |
BBC One on your TV screens. It was Ed Balls in Strictly. Let's see how | :11:13. | :11:15. | |
that went. Dancing the waltz, | :11:16. | :11:18. | |
Ed Balls and Katya Jones. There we go, glitter balls on | :11:19. | :11:46. | |
strictly. I bet you wish you had been there. I turned it down some | :11:47. | :11:52. | |
time ago. So did I! What was the woman who did it? Edwina. BBC | :11:53. | :12:00. | |
journalists, the public like people like that and supported in many ways | :12:01. | :12:03. | |
but they fall out because they can't dance. That is a drawback. They love | :12:04. | :12:09. | |
them for not dancing, they love the fact they are trying. But they | :12:10. | :12:15. | |
didn't win. I love dancing myself, but frankly you've got to have some | :12:16. | :12:19. | |
movement. There has got to be a flow in the body and the feel of the | :12:20. | :12:23. | |
music. I think you've got it there! You want to do it, I can tell! | :12:24. | :12:31. | |
Doesn't he? He wants to do it. That is not dancing, it's about the | :12:32. | :12:36. | |
movement of the body, the music and the spirit. You should be a judge on | :12:37. | :12:44. | |
the programme. I give it eight! Today talking about Jeremy Corbyn, | :12:45. | :12:50. | |
they love this, it humanises it. You can see a petition to get him on. I | :12:51. | :12:57. | |
can see it happening. We may have to speak to compliance about it! | :12:58. | :13:02. | |
Anyway, it has become a part of the Constitution that you and I have to | :13:03. | :13:06. | |
meet at a Labour conference, so it's good to see you. Two comedians | :13:07. | :13:11. | |
together. One day we might get a proper job! | :13:12. | :13:13. | |
I'll be back next week at the Conservative Party | :13:14. | :13:17. | |
Conference in Birmingham with more Sunday Politics. | :13:18. | :13:19. | |
And I'll be back tomorrow with the Daily Politics at 11am | :13:20. | :13:22. | |
over on BBC Two with more from the Labour Conference | :13:23. | :13:24. | |
We will bring you what is happening in the Labour conference and the | :13:25. | :13:30. | |
Shadow Chancellor's speech too. Remember, if it's Sunday, | :13:31. | :13:33. | |
it's the Sunday Politics. | :13:34. | :13:38. |