19/02/2012 Sunday Politics Scotland


Andrew Neil and Isabel Fraser with the latest from Greece on the debt crisis, John Prescott on police commissioners and an interview with Scottish secretary Michael Moore.

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Good afternoon and welcome to The Sunday Politics.


What's 130 billion euros between friends? After weeks of uncertainty,


violence and brinkmanship it looks like Greece is going to get its


second multi-billion euro bailout. But will it rescue Greece from


bankruptcy? We talk to one of its finance ministers.


David Cameron's been wooing the Scots, suggesting more devolved


powers if they remain part of the United Kingdom. But what does that


really mean? Scottish Secretary Michael Moore joins us for the


Sunday Interview. We'll be playing good cop. Bad cop


with former head of the Met, Ian Blair, and former Deputy PM, John


Prescott, who go head to head on police commissioners.


And on Sunday Politics Scotland, we will be asking Alistair Darling


what Labour's big idea for the referendum campaign is.


And we will be looking at gender and politics Danish style, as we


Apology for the loss of subtitles for 1506 seconds


reflect on the fiction of Borgen There where eight pages in the


Greater London Act. Boris Johnson did not need any of these pages. He


simply said he did not have confidence and there was the end.


have work with a few people who did not have confidence in me! I agree


with you. About that in the West Midlands, because that is so big.


So you think it might be all right in some parts of the country?


say at the beginning of the programme, any small confined


airier it is different. But when you have any area will spread out,


such as Thames Valley. How does one person possibly represent that?


do not underestimate the plan of people who can say that they can


check on what the commissioner does. Yes, but that is the same control


they have in London over the budget of the media and not once in a


years has there been any challenge. How many millions of people are in


London? In this case, taking Humberside, the police chief has to


come to an agreement about the budget. It is about the


personalities to a certain extent. But the voice of the people will


have more influence in terms of the plan for the next five years.


two is going to be interested in you're election as regards the


likes of counter terrorism. Humberside is not a risky area?


They are terrorists everywhere. That will come into it and you do


have to have the national policy for it. Gentlemen, we have to leave


it there. I will talk now to the former leader of helped halt city


It is approaching 1230, you are watching the Sunday politics. Good


afternoon and welcome to The Sunday Politics Scotland. Coming up on the


programme... The First Minister, the Prime


Minister and the Scottish Secretary - they are all talking about the


referendum, but what are they actually saying? As David Cameron


hints at more powers under devolution, what will be spelled


out and when? We will be asking former Chancellor


Alistair Darling if Labour has a plan and, if they do, what exactly


is it? A pilot project delivers an


unprecendented fall in knife crime. In this highly sensitive area, what


is working and where is the room for improvement? The Justice


Secretary will be here. Is this the mathematical equation


that can predict probability in whether Scotland becomes


independent or not? Are all things equal in gender and


politics? We have come over all Borgen, to find out if women MSPS


at Holyrood find the fictional take true to life?


Hello and welcome to the programme. Hold on tight to the tectonic


plates, as the most rigid political positions seem to be moving.


After we have settled the independence question, if the


answer to that question is that Scotland wants to stay in the


United Kingdom. And I hope that is the, of course then we can have a


further conversation about how much, how best to arrange the devolved


settlement, so that it works for everybody.


And just earlier, the Scottish Secretary said the following.


not about has setting out the agenda. But the Scottish National


Party have failed to set out how an independent Scotland would look


like. They have failed to address the likes of currency and defence.


Joining us now from our Edinburgh studio is former Labour Chancellor


and the MP for Edinburgh South West, Alistair Darling. In Scotland and


see no to independence, what additional powers could come to


Holyrood? I think the fundamental one is that any parliament which


should be able to spend the money, should be able to also raise more


money. I think that is essential in my view. The most important


question, which we really Doody need to decide sooner rather than


later, his army staying in the United Kingdom or leaving? Once you


answer that question, you can then define what the consequences are.


Specifically, what sort of tax- raising powers are you talking


about? A if you look at the amount of money Scotland Spence, what you


want is to move to a situation where the skull and decides to


spend money on whatever, it has to decide how much taxes would go up.


I think that is absolute fund just to clarify that, are you talking


about specific late income tax a range of taxes? The Scottish


government has had the ability to vary the amount of tax since it was


set up. Of course, this is more difficult when you get into the


likes of corporate tax. I think this is essential for the future,


but the big question we have to answer his army staying in the


United Kingdom are not? Whatever the answer to that is, although


there are lots of other questions that still have to be answered,


that is the main one. We need to have this debate and I do not see


why we have to wait another two years until we have it. If you are


seeking clarity in the debate, surely it is only fair that of


water has called in to this debate knowing exactly what they're


letting themselves in for? They need to know about income tax pause


and the like. Equally, if we have income tax powers, there is no


point having that in less you have boring powers, which can offset any


I do not think what we have at the moment is satisfactory. It was fine


in 1990, but things have moved on. But the first question you have to


us before be called for any change is simply, are we staying in the


United Kingdom or are we leaving? Once that question is the answer,


we can go forward and look at other aspects. But we simply do not see


why we have to wait until 2014 until the question is the answer?


We could easily have this referendum next year. Once that has


been done, then we can look of what other powers should be be be


devolved from Westminster. The traditional Tory position appears


to have changed, there been more willingness to may be devolved some


pause. It would seem you are proposing a one-sided debate. We do


we have to wait for the alternative. It could be viewed as being the


most important vote in 300 years in Scotland. Here are saying, trust us.


You are requiring a great leap of faith. Why not spell out clearly


what the alternatives are so that people can make an informed


judgment about whether we stay within the United Kingdom were not?


The simple question to be asked his army stain or are we going? Is the


fact that you are not raising the possibility of further powers is


that because Labour are out of the game as regards this. Why do you


not seize the initiative and put forward the cohesive and cogent


case? In the pipeline, there are changes been made. What I do think,


the way you address the question about whether we would stay in the


United Kingdom were not, has to be a positive one - what is best for


Scotland. My answer is that Scotland will derive huge benefits


from the strength of the United Kingdom, just as the United Kingdom


crows great strength from being in the European Union. You are part of


the much bigger community. But the first question you ask has to be


are you staying in the United Kingdom and then leaving? We could


easily have that question a lot sooner than the First Minister


wants. We need to answer my question now and then once you


decide that, then if you have decided to stay, you look for more


powers to be devolved to Scotland and if you are leaving, you are


going to have to answer all sorts of other questions. At the moment,


there are very few good answers to these. His skull and says no to


independence, what political leverage do you think Scotland


would have been going to Westminster and asking for more


powers after a no vote in Scotland? Surely would have no leverage.


way that was unimaginable a year ago, I think the consensus among


all political parties that the settlement reached in 1998 is not


what we want at the moment. We need to move on from that. The DB will


eventually be about the extension of powers and other things, but


simply answer the first question, army's been or are we going. Once


the question is answered, the it does need to be immediate debate


about what further powers the Scottish Parliament needs. But what


all this is going on, the people in Scotland or facing losing jobs and


worried about financial and says, it is the economy that actually


matters. Let us get this constitutional question decided


once and for all. Would it be for the people and let them decide.


Then, the politicians can work out what they need to do it to go


forward. So what message will the new leader of Scottish Labour have


to give to their party conference? It has to be what difference the


Labour administration will making local authorities and and Scottish


Parliament. It is available pub powerful message to put out, that


Labour can make a difference. Yes, we have moved and we needed to move.


But fundamentally, we are much stronger and we are a much better


nation within the United Kingdom that we would be apart from it. It


is a powerful message and Ian sure she will make it.


Listening to that in our other Edinburgh studio is the Justice


Secretary, Kenny MacAskill. Is this not a problem for you if the


Unionists can put up a commune in no vote. If they can make that a


coherent message that could be a big problem? Sadly, it is what we


have come to expect. We did not buy a pig in the port before and I do


not think Scotland are going to accept advice from Labour


politicians are very conservative Prime Minister. The need to spell


out what powers they propose to give to Scotland. Legislation going


through Parliament at the moment in Westminster was looking to take


power away from Scotland. At a time when we are facing huge cuts from


the Conservatives and London and are most vulnerable people face


challenges and cuts to benefits, we are looking for better. The union


has proposition requires a great leap of faith, but you could


equally argue that your proposition of saying yes to independence, the


most important deal for 300 years, when we come back, you will just


have to live with it. The will, we are looking to enter into


consultation with them. We have to put forward the questions of what


we will do as regards currency, as regards defence. Sorry up to


interrupt. This is not what you can do, but what you will hope to


achieve through negotiation, which is the fundamentally different


question. No, I think the people of Scotland have shown an polls have


supported that, that what the want to be sure is that independence


will deliver for them. They want to make sure that it all face the


economic challenges of the future. We have to spell it out to the


people of Scotland. It will take time and that is why it is


important we have the referendum by the autumn 2014. That is the first


reasonable period we can expect to engage with people and go through


the requisite procedure that is now What I am suggesting is that you,


in all good faith can say it when you go to the electorate that this


is what you will deliver. The point I am asking you to engage with is


that you will not get everything you want so the things you predict


you will deliver may have to be changed. After that you will come


back and whatever do you have done the rest of us will have to live


with, so it requires a leap of faith. It is exactly the same as


happens after every election. You lay out a manifesto and we had


shown the people of Scotland, which is why the were re-elected with a


majority government, because we deliver our manifesto commitments.


Of course there may be some matters that will have to be entered into


negotiations with Westminster but we enter into that in a spirit of


willingness and Corporation and it is accepted that that is how


Westminster would engage. It is in the interests of everyone to make


sure we had a seen as a matter as possible. Just to clarify your last


point. You are saying there are matters during the negotiation


process that you would take back to the people of Scotland and a


subsequent referendum? We want a referendum and we are asking the


people of Scotland at to give us the mandate to negate independence.


When you enter any negotiation, whether to the Government in the


Scottish Parliament with the Westminster Parliament on a guess


it in terms of independence, there are matters that will have to be


subject to negotiation. We go into this with the spirit of willingness


and we think the UK would do likewise. This is a matter that has


been seen elsewhere. Matters are dealt with seamlessly. OK, you were


here to talk about something else so if you just bear with us, we are


moving on to the conviction of a man last week for stabbing a


teenager in Midlothian. It was a stark reminder of the human tragedy


of knife crime. But the latest Scottish Government figures show


that a pilot scheme in one of the worst effected areas has reduced


knife carrying by 33% since 2006. Christine Macleod takes a look at


what's contributed to this reduction, and asks what else


should be done to challenge the blade culture in some of our


communities. Knife crime is a problem that


continues to blight Scottish communities. That is why the


Scottish government has extended its knife crime campaign to North


Lanarkshire. This scheme offers activities, education and advice


and support to youth. It is designed to keep them off the


streets and away from night. It is called a diversionary approach.


lot of them just come in here so they get to know each other and it


means they will not go out and fight or whatever. Pit stops


violence I think. When they come in here they are all friends.


Scottish government has projects like these have contributed to


reducing knife crime. They say police stop-and-search and longer


sentences have also helped. Is the Government doing enough to tackle


knife crime? The main opposition at Holyrood say they are not. They are


calling for mandatory minimum sentences. They need to be a clear


message sent to people, not just that they will be hammered by the


courts and by the system if they use a knife but if they carry a


knife in circumstances where they might claim to be acting in self-


defence but where the consequences going to be that somebody get


killed or injured. They need to understand that that is not


acceptable and that will be hammered to pull stop we believe it


creates an expectation that any body caught carrying a knife will


go to jail. Within that would be a very significant deterrent to


people to do that. Calls are also being made to wait sentencing


council to ensure that those guilty of similar knife crime us get


punished so malaria. At present some get off more lightly than


others. We accept the idea of a sentencing council in Scotland.


Four justice to be seen to be working the public need to be


reassured that justices open, transparent and the sentence is


visible to them and they understand it and that offenders are


accountable for their actions. Guidelines should be produced that


allows offenders to understand and be accountable for their actions


and justice will be done and be seen to be done. Some impact --


some experts warn that the impact of diversionary schemes is limited.


These do not influence all life criminals. What is really needed is


more information on what motivates those who continue to commit crimes.


We need to create better information and data sources on


knife crime. We need to know more about who is carrying a knife and


who is using a knife and the situations in which knife carrying


happens. At the moment our data does not enable us to do that. As a


consequence we cannot tailor strategies to individuals and


communities. The fall in knife crime suggests that efforts to


tackle it are going in the right direction. Is the current approach


sophisticated enough to ensure that it keeps heading that way?


Back now to the Justice Secretary. Do you think we need a more


sophisticated approach? We are trying to get more accurate data


and that is why the violence reduction Unit and others are


working to make sure we can roll it out and find that the knife


offences that take place are all reported. That work is ongoing in


terms of co-operation between criminal justice and health boards


to make sure we have adequate data to work upon. We have far too many


tragedies that affect not just individual families but entire


communities. Things are heading in the right direction but there is a


long way to travel to change the culture that we have in Scotland,


not simply of knife crime in many areas but indeed of the alcohol


abuse that goes with it which has, as my predecessor indicated,


created a lethal cocktail. Do you accept that mandatory sentences


will act as a deterrent? Actually the average sentence in Scotland is


nine months for possession of a knife as so why you would want to


give them only six months seems strange. We are in a situation


where you are 50% more likely to get a conviction in Scotland and


south of the border and the sentence will be 75% longer. We


have a tough regime in Scotland. You can go to jail for up to four


years just for possessing a weapon. That possession of a knife is


therefore the court to use. We have record police numbers. We have


record numbers of stop-and-search. What they show is that less people


are carrying, thankfully, but still far too many and those who do, more


are getting caught and are going to prison for longer so it is working.


But we are still blighted by tragedies that have had


catastrophic effects. What about the role of a sentencing council?


Would it be your intention or expectation that a sentencing


council would allow for a predictability of sentences? What


would be their role and why have you not move more quickly on it?


was only passed in the last Parliament and we are entering into


discussion with the judiciary about how we implemented. It would not be


specific. It has always been agreed that they could deal with the


generalities of matters but it is up to the individual Sheriff Court


judge to deal with the particular individual at the time they imposed


the sentence. We now have vastly increased sentences under the SNP


government but we still retain the right for the individuals Seraph to


retain the right to decide what that sentence could be. You can get


four years for just possession of a knife. I would support any judge


who made that sentence because I have no doubt that it will prevent


another tragedy from occurring. We have tough laws but as your package


shows we have to change the culture, it is about a bear Cherie


activities and tackling a variety of cultural aspects in Scotland. We


are making progress. We have the lowest possession of offensive


weapons statistics for a decade. We still have a long way to go. Given


the pilot projects you have been running, I know you have extended


the man they are expensive, but do you think this is money that could


be picked up from the prevented a budget? I think so. That is why my


work across portfolios in the Scottish government. It is about


education, health, all of us pulling together to make Scotland


safer. It is about a flaws but also without providing diversionary


matters. Thank you very much. Human trafficking, the modern


equivalent of the slave trade, is increasing across Europe according


to the latest research. An inquiry into the situation here in Scotland


led by the QC Helena Kennedy found victims throughout the country. Men


women and children, not just in the sex industry, but forced labour in


hotels, in restaurants, farms and domestic homes. Baroness Kennedy


wants Scotland to break new ground with a zero tolerance approach. MPs


at Westminster discuss her findings next week. Here's Hayley Jarvis.


The true extent of human trafficking in Scotland is not


known. Latest figures show 74 people, including 19 children, are


suspected of being trafficked in the last three years but it could


be just the tip of an iceberg. The majority come from Nigeria, China


and Brazil. Most arrive by England because it appears more people are


being trafficked directly into this country. There has been only one


prosecution in Scotland for trafficking, compared to more than


150 in England and Wales. An inquiry into the equality and human


rights commission has called for new legislation in Scotland to


allow more convictions. It is a human rights abuse and criminal law


should come into play. The primary agency to deal with it should be


the police. It should not be the immigration services. Human


trafficking is often complicated by this confusion that it somehow is


an meshed in emigration. While there are often implications of


having come illegally into the country, it is really about crime.


The Scottish Drug Enforcement Agency admit to gaps in their


intelligence when it comes to trafficking. It is difficult to get


a handle on the problem. One of the things that we struggle to do is to


find the scale of the problem. Partly that is because getting


intelligence, information and knowledge of how much human


trafficking exists in Scotland can be quite problematic. Sometimes


that is because some of the victims involved do not particularly want


to identify themselves as victims because they may have some kind of


immigration status issue attached to them. The Scottish government


says it is considering the findings but it is encouraging all agencies


to work together to tackle the problem. MPs are due to discuss the


report at Westminster. Scotland has had a look at it and come up with a


proposal for new legislation. We should not rely on old laws. We


should bring together all the experience we have had in dealing


with human trafficking. It is -- if it is good for Scotland it will be


good for all of the UK. This play it draws on the experiences of a


young woman traffic to Scotland but in reality the victims are often


reluctant to tell their stories. The report heard from 10 women


traffic for sexual expectation and gave accounts of threats, beatings


and been tricked by members of their own families. Scotland could


lead the way in a preventing human trafficking and preventing more


women suffering the same fate. Here with me is the head of the


Human Trafficking Foundation, Ann Hamilton.


What do you think the members of public are not getting? There is a


misunderstanding about what trafficking is. There is a view


which is about foreign women being kidnapped and dragged across


borders and then being exploited, that they have no passports, no


money and they are beaten up etc. Actually it is much more subtle


than that. People are duped. They are brought here not just from


across other countries but from within the country. They get moved


around and exploited. There is a fundamental misunderstanding about


what trafficking is. It has three elements, the control, the


recruitment, the transporting. Then the means can be deception or debt


all force and then we have the exploitation which can be sexual


exploitation but it can also be labour exploitation. We really have


not fully understood that. There had a it always in where do people


who have been exploited end up? They can be exploited within a


family and the exploited as a domestic worker. It does not have


to be organised crime they get involved in it. It could be a very


small organisation -- operation. It is one of the myths that it is just


about huge organised crime operations. It can be much, much


smaller than that. A to be quite clear, we are not talking about


people not being paid the going rate for the work they are doing,


this is a broader front thing. is very different. It is not about


not being paid the minimum wage. It is about control, deception, debt,


yes. Baroness Kennedy said that when we put together and multi-


statutory response to this, she was heading towards a zero tolerance


situation in Scotland. She wants to shift the emphasis from immigration


to crime. That is absolutely right. It is not an immigration issue.


There are immigration issues involved in the crime but that is


not the primary element. Does it stop people coming forward? It does.


People are frightened. They are very stigmatised. They are ashamed


of what they have been involved in. They feel complicit in what they


have been involved in. It is very difficult to come forward for


assistance. That is what makes it infuriating for police and others,


they feel that victims are not prepared to tell them their story


but the reason for that is that they are quite often treated as


criminals themselves. They are frightened and stigmatised.


would seem to a lot of people watching that what could they do


about it even if they could identify it. The problems are


difficult to identify so what would you encourage people to do if they


have any suspicions at all? major thing is for the Government


to show leadership on this. They should start an Inter agency


working at a Scottish level. We do not have that. We do not have


organisations meeting at the moment to talk about the issues. In terms


of individuals we have to look at the demand for sexual services. Why


are men in Scotland still looking to buy sex? Is that part of a


modern society? Is that something we wanted to have? Why are people


still wanting cheap goods, cheap produce, cheap labour within the


household? It is about the demand that creates the the whole problem.


There is plenty of claim and counterclaim in the independence


debate. But can science cut through the arguments and get us closer to


the likely outcome? An international study has been


looking for the parts of Europe most likely to become independent


nations. The researchers from Spain, France


and the United States used economic and genetic data to find which


countries were most stable - and those most likely to break up. So


where does Scotland stand? Our science correspondent Kenneth


Macdonald can reveal all. This is what Europe looks like - a


patchwork of nations. Some of these are fairly new, especially those


which have broken away from others and got independence. But this is


also what Europe looks like - at a mathematical model. It has


identified which nations and the most and least stable. It is the


you result of work in France, Madrid and the United States.


we were trying to do is take this research one step further and try


and build a model which allows us to quantify the incentives for


regions to either seek independence or unite. Much of the original data


was from the original Yugoslavia, where predictions were that the


country would indeed break-up, which is what happened. We find


that first the public want to leave it, such as Slovenia and Croatia


and then we find Montenegro did not want to leave. But what did a model


tell us about our likely future? It said the country's most likely to


break away in Europe where the Basque country's and Scotland. Is


it inevitable? There is a difference, Slovenia had a much


richer economy than parts of Yugoslavia, whereas Scotland and


England are much closer. When I say the Basque country are a top


candidates, then it turns out that Scotland is not far behind. It


means this column was a little bit richer run a little bit bigger, it


may well ought to do that. 1 the number to suggest is something that


sounds suspiciously like Deval next. It is maybe a situation whereby


they get extra powers as opposed to going completely independent.


Looking at countries most likely to mere words, the top of the last


where Switzerland and Austria. If Britain were to merge with any


other country, the country it is most likely to merge with would


actually be France. There is a long love-the relationship for many


centuries, but that is the country, if they were to merge, that they


would be most likely to call with. It also said the merger between


Britain and Germany was possible. There is of course across the it.


These calculations do not attempt to predict the future. First column,


there lies not in equations but in kvingleer politiker ee de danske


drama Bowen ogde kvinglee politiker ee scotlands politik.


Ok een er ficktion men ikke lang Bit as good is the programme about


the power for women, who is also quite humane. I think that spoke to


us. It did talk about some of the compromises you have to make. I


think many women will recognise that you sometimes have to cut


corners, similar because you have so many different jobs you have to


do at the one time. If you go into politics, you have to have the


thick skin. With the access to technology nowadays, people can


make immediate comments about you. We have not broken through about


the double standards the women face It really does capture politics and


the row. It also captures aspects of coalition politics. You have to


be assertive and confident. You are surrounded by lots of very strong


people. Now that I am out of politics, I have discovered these


things called weekends which everybody else had, which I can now


husband felt less masculine when his wall changed. When he was


running the household, he was desperate to get back to the status


he used to have any a work environment. But for most parents,


it should not be an either or. We should both be playing an important


part in our children pause Mark upbringing. There are cultural


shifts needed. Often, someone can do something on your behalf. The


point is that you want to do these things yourself. You want to go to


the school concert and want to go to that parents' night. The numbers


and the parliament is that the parliament has made more efforts to


make things more female-friendly compared to local councils. Local


councils a lot of the evening meetings and things like that.


Nicola Sturgeon and others have watched Borgen and it would be and


they ought not to see how women across the world in politics cope


with depression and strains of that and family life. There are times


when you do not feel as confident as you Wanstead and you have to put


forward the vineyard that shows outwardly you are coping well. But


you still have the stresses and strains of having a young family at


home. It is really important to have a supportive husband. I am


really lucky that he is here and be able to take a bit of a career


break to look after her son, Angus. But of course, once we get warm, he


is wanted to chat, because he has been with Angus all day, whereas I


am more keen to switch off. But I have to make sure right here for


We have two guests in the studio - the SNP MSP for the South of


Scotland, Joan McAlpine, and Dr Fiona Mackay, the Director of the


Graduate School of Social & Political Science at Edinburgh


University. His it tougher for Women in politics than men? I thing


get depends. I think we can sometimes talk too much about this.


We are not ever going to say women MSPs, who get a very big salary and


can afford to pay for other things, compared to other ski female


workers. I'm not is one Cabinet minister to meeting that he had


topped his kids than one Thursday night and they did not see that he


was going to see him for another four or five days because he was


going to Europe for a conference. So it obviously affects brain just


as much. But both jobs can be very demanding and in politics, you have


an obligation to the people who elected you, so there is a feeling


you cannot do enough for them. There are times when the family


simply asked to step back. You are dealing with the people who elected


you. You maybe also needing to liaise with party activists. But if


we look at the actual structures, is that the case that the structure


response to getting the best women in place or two women come forward


and it is the woman who can survive the structure that five? I think it


is the combination of the two. There was a big change to try and


alter the structure of the Scottish Parliament. As time goes by, if you


keep to the forefront the value of the life-work balance. I think what


made the television series so arresting is that it showed the


kind of compromises politicians have to make, both politically and


personally. It also shows that women, the costs are often greater


than they are for men, in general. In a we, the old-fashioned


relationship where the women was a warm looking after the children


will the husband was out walking. There are women who still enjoy the


role and that is the totally valid choice. You do not get the same


amount of tensions between a traditional relationship. Whereas,


if that is the relationship when the man is assuming their role,


like the academic husband at the TV programme, there are going to be


tensions, because that is not is something expected of the man. I


think it Birgitte Nyborg, they have an agreement that in five years'


time, he will get his tongue at his But it is that a pressure that if


you do not have a family, you simply hand over your entire life


to politics? Yes, a coup de a problem. But then again, I think it


goes with every career? A you treated differently because you


made that choice by you're male colleagues? I do not think so. I am


quite assertive about it. Things have to give. I do not of a social


life, but then again I have been a warm cooking meals for my daughter,


which is great. You have to put the children first. Does the has become


very self-selecting. If you look at the professions that people in the


Scottish Parliament have come from, they're the likes of a lot of


lawyers, medics, teachers. You do not see a lot of the likes of


farmers, artists or the like. Is there a certain role you have


previously fulfilled that helps when it goes to going to


Parliament? If you look at politics been a very greedy institution in


terms of it sucking your time, it is very excluding of the be the


work pooled by you would take all politicians from. It raises the


question of if you want to know what politics we want and what


politicians we want and what sort of leaves we want them to manage,


what is clear is that we do not allow politicians to have much of a


life. I would like to have some sort of hinterland, some sort of


experience that they do go home. That is why it is important for me


if the likes of, my daughter says she has a school Cont concert,


which is quite a regular thing because she plays music, have


important is it that people from other parties to say, I am out of


the door at a certain time. Is it very tribal and the respect? There


have not heard of kids being vilified for going to their


You have to be there for the Broda. You have to be there at 5 o'clock


at night. But most people do work until five. It is just because we


work longer hours the rest of the time that you might work well into


the night the rest of the time. What is interesting is that there


are all sorts of reasons you might want reforms for flexibility, no


one is talking about family friendly hours and if you increase


the sitting times of the parliament you are moving back on those


original things that had a sudden I've value if not a practical value.


Thank you very much from both of you. And now here's the lunchtime


news with Gillian Smart. Good Afternoon. The Rangers manager


Ally McCoist is welcoming the Scottish Football Association's


investigation into events at the club. Meanwhile, administrators are


examining information on the takeover and running of the side to


form a fuller picture of its finances. Rangers lost 1-0 to


Kilmarnock yesterday afternoon at a sold out Ibrox in their first game


since going into administration. The amount of clarity that comes


out in the whole issue is obviously vital to everybody, supporters, you


guys, employees and everybody. We want all the facts and figures and


everything, everything disclosed. I think it is the very least the


supporters and the staff deserve. The energy giant Exxon Mobil has


been fined �2.8 million for failing to report 33,000 tonnes of carbon


dioxide emissions at its ethylene plant in Mosmorran. The Scottish


Environmental Protection Agency issued the fine in 2010 and says


the penalty was a mandatory consequence of breaching the EU


Emmisions trading scheme. Its thought to be the biggest fine ever


for an environmental offence in the A sunny afternoon here in Glasgow,


A sunny afternoon here in Glasgow, here's Cat Cubie with the forecast.


Good afternoon. It was a chilly start this morning and the frost


will be slow to lift in some places. We will continue to the wintry snow


showers in the north. Some sunshine especially across the south and


east. It will stay chilly. Temperatures only reaching around


four Celsius. Overnight we will see a change with the front at pushing


in from the West. There will be outbreaks of rain across the


country and a strengthening wind. It will bring milder air.


That's all for now, our next bulletin is at 6.20pm. I'll hand


you back now to Isabel. Thanks Gillian. Now in a moment,


we'll be discussing the big events coming up this week, but first,


let's take a look back at the Week Rangers football club went into


administration with the tax liability being up to �75 million.


An inquiry will be held. The level is so high that it would be


completely unmanageable if we allow it to come to a conclusion.


report into the murder of a toddler by his mother says that social


workers should have acted sooner but concedes that she was devious.


A Aberdeen run of -- residents look at redevelopment plans and the


Designing architect from York once the architect -- public to fall in


love with his vision. The number of people out of work in


Scotland has risen. It is now a 0.6%. It is 8.4% of the rest of the


Finally, Edinburgh-born a comedian Robbie, a bet that -- Ronnie


Corbett was awarded a CBE. So it looks like the two big


stories this week have revolved around negotiations, both on and


off the pitch. With me today we have two political


journalists, Angus Macleod from the Times, and Alex Massie from The


Spectator. Thank you very much for coming in.


Where do you think we have got to on the hold who says what on the


referendum and what they really mean and where it will end up?


has been fascinating and that is the perfectly safe. I have a


strange impression that now that all the Unionist parties are


groping towards a position somewhere on a line between the


Scotland Bill at one end and D Lomax and the other. Alastair


Darling's intervention is very significant. He is putting himself


somewhere on that line alongside David Cameron. One other thing


which is speculation, what is assuming more significance than


people David when it was launched what the Lib Dem Commission. I


think when it reports it will be interesting to see what it says.


Danny Alexander and Nick Clegg are both behind that report and they


are members of a group that is directing this Coalition. Could it


be, absolute speculation, but could it be that the Coalition will find


itself throwing his weight behind whatever that commission comes up


with? It is interesting because today the Lib Dems have issued an


offer to other parties to say it have a look at what we are coming


up with a we can all work of that sheep if you like? Is that a


potential way forwards? I think that line has gone to some extent.


We have moved to a situation where the question will be yes to


independence or no to independence to being one that maybe more


complicated. Will there be fiscal autonomy or real home rule? The Lib


Dems have a a Goldilocks -- Arie Goldie looks of the Unionist


parties. They are neither too hot nor too cold and they can Perhaps


persuade Labour and Conservatives are to meet in the middle. They may


offer a range of proposals. Those proposals will obviously have to be


clarified and spelt out at some point and that has to be spelt out


before there is a referendum and not after. Is it a point that they


cannot hold the line for much longer which says just trust us and


we will actually give you something? Will that still be


credible? If it is not he defines what the alternative proposals will


be? If you have three Unionist camps who will be playing to their


own bases? Who will do fine where to go? That is a great danger for


the Unionist camp that I can use that phrase. You might get three


different versions bouncing around. It is not credible. I think


commonsense and political sense will come into play the up. People


will realise that you cannot go into a referendum saying vote no


and you never know what you might get because if that is the case


then that vote becomes the real leap in the dark and not the vote


for yes. Do you agree with that? Entirely. There are questions that


have to be asked and answered by independence but at least everybody


has a decent notion of what independence might be like. It is a


relatively certain thing. At the moment from Mr Darling and Mr


Cameron and other senior members of the Unionist opposition we have a


complete lack of clarity and a complete lack of certainty. You


can't actually put it as a matter of faith or trust it has to have


real answers. We saw David Cameron saying something that Ruth Davidson


had not taken a position on and now Alistair Darling a thing he could


look at income tax powers and are not ruling out other powers and yet


we have not heard that from Johann Lamont. What is going on? Too much


has been made of this Ruth Davidson line in the sand. She make -- she


said it last August when she was still only a candidate in the


leadership election. It ignores a point about policy evolves in any


political party and especially if you have a stutter just like George


Osborne in your ranks when he is certainly beginning to drive the


policy of the Conservative Party in the whole constitutional argument


in Scotland in terms of labour --. In terms of labour it seems that


Johann Lamont will say something very important. What we are


watching for is not simply that she launches a Labour campaign to save


devolution but that she perhaps follows the Alistair Darling path


and set something out on this programme and in a Sunday newspaper.


If Alastair Darling is heading this up, could it 0.2 AC given a role


for him in the campaign and does it not highlight the fact that we have


not heard enough from people within Scotland? You could argue we have


had far too much from Labour in Scotland! On this particular issue


you could say there has been a welcome silence from Labour in


Scotland! The Labour Scottish leadership appears to be at best


tangential to the debate and probably utterly irrelevant. Yes,


Alastair Darling, Douglas Alexander, these are Labour's heavy hitters


but moving towards a greater range of powers, particularly on the


physical side of things in the Scottish Parliament, this is


something that the Conservatives should be backing as well. It fits


in with a jaw Tory principles of localism, accountability and the


need for Parliament to raise money as well as spend it. What will be


interesting is that we see an alliance between the Tories and the


SNP's. That argument did not wash with the grass roots. Do not forget


that Labour are crucial in this process simply because in any


referendum the Labour votes that they can deliver on one side in a


referendum could be the decisive factor. We are almost out of time.


Do you have anything to say about Rangers? It is a terrible shame.


Obviously it is a shock but it is one of these kind of inevitable


shocks. I do not understand how people can go around saying that


Celtic could survive without Rangers. I just do not see it. I


think is daydreaming. Do you have anything to say about Borgen.


terrific. Everybody should watch it. Could there be a Scottish version


Political magazine presented by Andrew Neil and Isabel Fraser.

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