04/03/2012 Sunday Politics Scotland


04/03/2012

Andrew Neil and Isabel Fraser present the latest political news including an interview with Alex Salmond, and Quentin Wilson on his campaign for lower petrol prices.


Similar Content

Browse content similar to 04/03/2012. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!

Transcript


LineFromTo

Good afternoon and welcome to the Sunday Politics. Our top story.

:00:39.:00:43.

Could wrangling in the coalition over the budget end with a new

:00:43.:00:47.

mansion tax and the scrapping of the 50 p tax rate? I will be

:00:47.:00:51.

speaking to the new Lib Dem Business Minister Norman Lamb.

:00:51.:00:54.

Alex Salmond tells me he is so confident of winning a referendum

:00:54.:00:58.

on Scottish independence, he will kick off the yes campaign this May.

:00:58.:01:02.

Scotland's First Minister joins us for the Sunday interview.

:01:02.:01:05.

As the price of petrol reaches record highs, should the Chancellor

:01:05.:01:15.
:01:15.:01:30.

cut fuel duty? A petrol head and a green campaigner go head to head.

:01:30.:01:35.

And our political panel of the best and brightest, here every week to

:01:35.:01:38.

analyse British politics in the week ahead and tweeting throughout

:01:38.:01:40.

the programme. Scottish Labour shrugs off the sackcloth and ashes

:01:40.:01:42.

as Johann Lamont talks wealth redistribution, social justice and

:01:42.:01:45.

re-engaging with the unions. And was Lib Dem leader Nick Clegg

:01:45.:01:48.

feeling the love at the party conference in Inverness, the former

:01:48.:01:58.
:01:58.:01:58.

Apology for the loss of subtitles for 1492 seconds

:01:58.:26:51.

stronghold wiped out in the People are spending more. Clothing,

:26:51.:27:01.
:27:01.:27:03.

food, household goods. You have moved the money from

:27:03.:27:08.

spending on flu ordure t two spending on other things. What to

:27:08.:27:16.

be wrong with that? If you look at the long term, if you are going to

:27:16.:27:20.

spend money on things like this, you should spend it on getting

:27:21.:27:27.

people out of car dependency. Any cut is just going to be followed up

:27:27.:27:33.

by speculation. What you need to be spending money on his reversing bus

:27:33.:27:43.
:27:43.:27:44.

cuts, cutting inflation and rises in train fares. If you have not got

:27:44.:27:48.

a car, and you local bus service has been cut, you cannot go

:27:48.:27:52.

anywhere at all. A most of us do have a car, why should we have to

:27:52.:27:58.

pay more than our European neighbours? I would accept the

:27:58.:28:03.

delay in any further increase. But a cut is effectively Government

:28:03.:28:11.

spending. That should be spent on getting us out of this problem.

:28:11.:28:17.

will give people a relief that socially. Since 1997, the overall

:28:17.:28:26.

cost of motoring, unlike the public transport sector, has fallen.

:28:26.:28:31.

that to the people who write to me who are saying that because the

:28:31.:28:37.

commute, they have had to give up their job. It as a deeply serious

:28:37.:28:41.

issue that is the emasculating the economy, stopping people going to

:28:41.:28:51.
:28:51.:28:51.

work and interviews. High off of all -- half of all families in

:28:51.:28:57.

poverty do not have a car and that is made even worse by the lack of

:28:57.:29:06.

public transport. We have got to develop a transport system, but it

:29:06.:29:11.

will take as 10 years and probably 100 billion it to do that. It is

:29:11.:29:19.

important that the catch up. A cut in fuel duty would not help that.

:29:19.:29:24.

But it would help ordinary families. He so would organising better bus

:29:24.:29:34.

services. We have to have other ways of getting about. It will cost

:29:34.:29:41.

hundreds of billions of pounds. doing are gradually, it would be

:29:41.:29:46.

affordable. It is laudable and we should be doing it, but that will

:29:46.:29:56.
:29:56.:29:56.

not help now. We used to see that it was almost... Their due duty is

:29:56.:30:06.

lower in real terms and it wasn't 2009 so you have had your cut.

:30:06.:30:13.

of the price of fuel goes on tax. It does make business more

:30:13.:30:18.

expensive. It is making us less competitive. Few prices will only

:30:18.:30:26.

go up and the future. In that long term, we needed to reduce their

:30:26.:30:32.

dependence of our economy on oil. How would you pay for it? You have

:30:32.:30:38.

to find the money to pay for the fuel duty? A I would increase

:30:38.:30:48.
:30:48.:30:49.

economic activity. By reducing duty,... We will have to leave it

:30:49.:30:59.
:30:59.:31:05.

Good afternoon and welcome to Sunday Politics Scotland. Coming up

:31:05.:31:11.

on the programme. Scottish Labour and the Lib Dems are in conference

:31:11.:31:15.

groove this weekend. What plans and policies are they hatching? Johann

:31:15.:31:21.

Lamont joins us to explain Labour's new strategy here. Off with

:31:21.:31:25.

sackcloth and ashes and on with social justice and equality.

:31:25.:31:28.

And as Scotland fights to be the location for the UK'S first green

:31:28.:31:31.

investment bank, the Lib Dem leader Nick Clegg tells us it could be

:31:31.:31:36.

built on Mars, what matters is where it invests. And I am in Wales

:31:36.:31:40.

to find out why the Scottish referendum has got this country

:31:40.:31:43.

talking about its own political future.

:31:43.:31:46.

When Labour gathered in Dundee on Friday, their UK leader Ed Miliband

:31:46.:31:49.

wanted to talk about the economy. But off-stage, the issue of

:31:49.:31:52.

Scotland's constitutional future just wouldn't go away. Johann

:31:52.:31:55.

Lamont used her first conference speech as leader to announce a new

:31:55.:31:57.

commission on further devolution within the UK. Niall O'Gallagher

:31:57.:32:07.
:32:07.:32:14.

Labour say their position is not desperate. But they have not got

:32:14.:32:24.
:32:24.:32:25.

much to laugh about after last year's defeat in the local

:32:25.:32:32.

elections. That would simply guarantee another defeat. The

:32:32.:32:36.

threat so to Scotland are two great and the risks are to deal for

:32:36.:32:40.

Scottish Labour to settle for a quiet life of decline and a defeat.

:32:40.:32:49.

We need it to change and change radically, not to disavow our

:32:49.:32:56.

greatest beliefs. Scotland is giving Ed Miliband a headache. He

:32:56.:32:59.

knows the independence would make it difficult for him to become

:32:59.:33:09.

Prime Minister. But he is also concerned about plans to devolve

:33:09.:33:19.
:33:19.:33:19.

further tax to Holyrood. The SNP say that be want Scandinavian level

:33:19.:33:27.

of public services. But you cannot create that if you are asking for

:33:27.:33:34.

Irish levels of corporation tax. That is the reality. Then came a

:33:34.:33:37.

plea to Scottish voters not to accept the Nationalist portrayal of

:33:37.:33:42.

England as a Tory nation of. must reject attempts to divide our

:33:42.:33:47.

country by ideology or geography. We are not left wing Scotland and

:33:47.:33:57.
:33:57.:34:01.

right wing England. We are one Ed Miliband largely stayed away

:34:01.:34:08.

from the debate on more powers for Scotland in the United Kingdom and

:34:08.:34:13.

whether support for such a question should be on the referendum ballot

:34:14.:34:23.
:34:24.:34:28.

paper. But his remarks on Labour's Scottish leader Johann

:34:28.:34:34.

Lamont went to Aberdeen University to read the future of their video

:34:34.:34:40.

games industry. It will have to be if the manoeuvring over Scotland's

:34:40.:34:46.

future is set to dominate her leadership. She allows a commission

:34:46.:34:55.

to look at devolution would they mack the United Kingdom. Our ideals

:34:55.:35:00.

endured. But we have to strengthen the United Kingdom and Scotland's

:35:00.:35:05.

place in Ed. Before we do that, we must take to the country the case

:35:05.:35:09.

for Scotland remaining in the United Kingdom. Labour did not want

:35:09.:35:13.

to spend this conference talking about the constitution. But with a

:35:13.:35:18.

referendum on the horizon, they did not have much choice. We insist

:35:18.:35:22.

that they are united on the issue of more powers, but we still do not

:35:22.:35:26.

know what kind of devolution settlement they will be arguing for

:35:26.:35:36.
:35:36.:35:38.

when the referendum comes. Johann -- a Johann Lamont joins us

:35:38.:35:48.

live now. What kind of radical proposals were you be coming up

:35:48.:35:53.

with? I said that the choice in powers is not about how many powers

:35:53.:35:58.

we can gather at the Scottish Parliament, it is about what works

:35:58.:36:01.

in the interests of the people of Scotland. The devolution commission

:36:01.:36:07.

will look at everything, tested against the evidence of their

:36:07.:36:14.

impact on people's jobs and the economy. And corporation tax?

:36:14.:36:17.

feels to me, and this is the case that we will look at, if you have

:36:18.:36:27.

corporation tax, the only people that benefit are those who do not

:36:27.:36:33.

want to pay corporation tax. It feels a good deal for businesses

:36:33.:36:38.

but not for public services. But we will look and examine in detail the

:36:38.:36:43.

consequences of this. You could always a raise corporation tax?

:36:43.:36:46.

could raise corporation tax. You will end up at the same place

:36:46.:36:52.

however. You will have competition across the United Kingdom. I am not

:36:52.:36:56.

sure that is a rational way to run the economy. I did say that London

:36:56.:37:00.

is one of the strongest and wealthiest hubs in the world. And

:37:00.:37:08.

we are going to go into competition him with London and? Just to

:37:08.:37:15.

clarify here, are you saying that if you raise corporation tax in

:37:15.:37:25.
:37:25.:37:27.

Scotland, you will have competition across the UK? The logic of having

:37:27.:37:30.

corporation tax set at different levels across the United Kingdom or

:37:31.:37:35.

feels to me that we will end up in a place with wasteful competition.

:37:35.:37:39.

And a race to the bottom. But we will interrogate those options,

:37:39.:37:42.

look at and examine the consequences of any of these models

:37:42.:37:46.

other Test will be, is it in their interest of the people of Scotland,

:37:46.:37:52.

will it create jobs and a stronger economy? I am sorry for the delay

:37:52.:38:02.

on this line. You were talking about London being one of the

:38:02.:38:07.

richest international hubs. It is quite a tricky area for Labour to

:38:07.:38:17.
:38:17.:38:17.

go into. You said, London is one of the register international hubs,

:38:17.:38:22.

you could go down the road of perpetuating the myth of saying

:38:23.:38:32.
:38:33.:38:36.

that Scotland is too poor to compete? I do not accept that. The

:38:36.:38:40.

United Kingdom is a partnership, we work in corporation. Where there is

:38:40.:38:46.

lead, resources are distributed towards that made. That seems to be

:38:46.:38:50.

to be a logical and rational. It is all the if you define yourself

:38:51.:38:54.

entirely within the countries within the United Kingdom that that

:38:54.:38:59.

it becomes at are the core concept to hold onto. In a difficult

:38:59.:39:04.

economic times, coming together is the best place for the people of

:39:04.:39:09.

Scotland. I am not talking Scotland down. The people of Scotland may

:39:09.:39:13.

choose to separate from the rest of the United Kingdom, but we have to

:39:13.:39:17.

have a rational debate about the strengths of being part of the

:39:17.:39:23.

United Kingdom and the consequences of separation. He two-thirds of

:39:23.:39:27.

people questioned recently said they wanted more taxation powers to

:39:27.:39:31.

go to Holyrood. That is why I have established a devolution commission

:39:31.:39:36.

and why I am committed to looking at those are right. It is not about

:39:36.:39:40.

accumulating powers in the Scottish Parliament, it is how those powers

:39:40.:39:48.

are used to. Do you their tax take has to be higher than it now is?

:39:48.:39:53.

think we have to look at how, employ of times, we spend our money.

:39:53.:39:59.

Equality is not just for when the sun shines. But you come out Lyme

:39:59.:40:03.

how you want to spend it, but how do you want to raise it. -- outline.

:40:03.:40:08.

You have a very ambitious programme of what you want to do. People will

:40:08.:40:12.

be wondering where that money will come from? Should the tax take the

:40:12.:40:17.

higher? The if you have a strong economy and strong economic

:40:17.:40:23.

activity, you will have more money to spend. That is the impact.

:40:23.:40:27.

in the meantime? Until then, we have to do with the situation that

:40:27.:40:31.

we are in. The difficulty that I think we have a relation to council

:40:31.:40:35.

tax, the Scottish government is committed to a council tax freeze

:40:35.:40:40.

but they are not funded it. That is the challenge that our councils are

:40:40.:40:50.
:40:50.:40:50.

us facing at this time. Should we be looking at them, when it

:40:50.:40:56.

Scotland is considering where it goes, should we be looking at

:40:56.:41:04.

targeting businesses more, raising corporation tax? Troubles the sort

:41:04.:41:14.
:41:14.:41:18.

of areas that should be looked at? I think you have to look at all of

:41:18.:41:23.

these things. There was something you said in your speech that you

:41:23.:41:28.

were going to look at the whole system of selecting candidates, how

:41:28.:41:33.

they come forward and how the party brings them on. You said that the

:41:33.:41:41.

party machine could stifle talent, what did you mean by that? I think

:41:41.:41:45.

like all political parties we end up becoming obsessed with the

:41:45.:41:49.

machine and the bureaucracy of making decisions when in fact

:41:49.:41:53.

people want to be engaged with the political debate and active in

:41:53.:41:57.

understanding how people live their lives. We need to open up our

:41:57.:42:03.

structures. It does mean that unless you are prepared to sit

:42:03.:42:07.

through 100 different meetings about matters arising you tend to

:42:07.:42:12.

think you will perhaps not bother. We need to create a culture that

:42:12.:42:16.

refreshes the idea of why political parties exist and encourage people

:42:16.:42:23.

to engage in politics. That is really part of the whole of our job.

:42:23.:42:28.

In terms of who actually goes on to represent Labour in Scotland, do

:42:28.:42:34.

you think that sitting MPs and MSPs should be more open to challenge

:42:34.:42:38.

rather than the situation at the moment where they just get rubber-

:42:38.:42:45.

stamped by the constituency party? No one who has a Labour candidate

:42:45.:42:49.

or or Labour elected member has a job for life. Any Labour candidate

:42:49.:42:55.

has to earn the right to be a candidate. How do you enforce that

:42:55.:43:00.

practical issue? I think we have to set a standard and engage with our

:43:00.:43:05.

elected members. We have spoken about contracts for elected members

:43:05.:43:12.

which I think is one way that it can be done. It is critically

:43:13.:43:16.

important that elected members are engaged with and involved with

:43:17.:43:23.

their constituents and also in engaging with the important

:43:23.:43:27.

political debates of the day. terms of setting standards, Eric

:43:27.:43:31.

Joyce says he will not contest the next election, do you think he

:43:31.:43:38.

should stand down before then? have been very clear that the

:43:38.:43:46.

allegations made against him suggest an abuse of trust in his

:43:46.:43:51.

position. We cannot make him stand down but I think people would

:43:51.:43:57.

expect him to do the right thing. Which in your opinion is to stand

:43:57.:44:01.

down? I think the people of Falkirk deserved a representative that

:44:02.:44:05.

reaches the standards we would expect of somebody in elected

:44:05.:44:11.

position. So is that a yes that he should stand down? It is my view

:44:11.:44:17.

that he should stand down but that is not under my control. I believe

:44:17.:44:21.

that his actions are those of someone who is not fit to represent

:44:21.:44:26.

people. Are you confident that you would win a by-election there if

:44:27.:44:31.

Eric Joyce stands down as you want? We are confident in Labour's

:44:31.:44:36.

message. All will we lost the last election we did not lose our values

:44:37.:44:41.

or our commitment to the people of Scotland. That is the case we

:44:41.:44:46.

should take to the people if there is by election. Her have you spoken

:44:46.:44:54.

to Eric Joyce? No. So how have you managed to satisfy yourself as to

:44:54.:45:00.

his version of events before you make a decision to that he should

:45:00.:45:05.

stand down now? What I have said is that if the allegations are true

:45:05.:45:10.

then in my view he is not fit to be a Labour candidate for a Labour MP.

:45:10.:45:16.

Can I ask you about D Green Investment Bank, do you think the

:45:16.:45:21.

referendum debate makes that more or less likely? I think in general

:45:21.:45:26.

terms the debate on the referendum must now move beyond process. I

:45:26.:45:30.

have said I want a referendum earlier rather than later because I

:45:30.:45:34.

am concerned for the uncertainty and businesses have come out and

:45:34.:45:39.

said that in recent weeks. We need to get on to the core of the debate

:45:39.:45:49.
:45:49.:45:49.

as to what Scotland would look like in the case of independence. You do

:45:49.:45:57.

not have a debate as to whether Scotland being independent would

:45:57.:46:03.

sweep the Westminster banks? I am supportive of the United Kingdom,

:46:03.:46:08.

Scotland strong, and shading the benefits of investment across the

:46:08.:46:14.

UK. I would clearly prefer Scotland within the United Kingdom with a

:46:14.:46:20.

green investment bank coming to Scotland. 500 days rather than

:46:20.:46:25.

1,000 days after the consultation ends, is that a timescale you would

:46:25.:46:30.

time -- sign up to? I started off with my new year message which

:46:30.:46:36.

feels like a very long time ago seeing that we should make 2012 the

:46:36.:46:40.

year of the referendum. The process should be started and we should

:46:40.:46:45.

make a decision in 2013. I think it is a debate that needs to be

:46:45.:46:52.

brought forward. Thank you very much indeed. The issue of

:46:52.:46:57.

independence has also been a central thread running through the

:46:57.:47:07.
:47:07.:47:10.

Liberal Democrats' Scottish conference. Activists say the party

:47:10.:47:15.

is bouncing back from its drubbing in last year's Scottish

:47:15.:47:21.

parliamentary elections. A striking combination of plush visuals and

:47:21.:47:28.

knife-edge drama. Not quite the Lib Dems Scottish conference but the

:47:29.:47:36.

venue shows films to. After their dismal showing in last year's

:47:36.:47:42.

elections this could have been the main showing this weekend but the

:47:42.:47:48.

party seemed to have a spring in its step. We got a drubbing last

:47:48.:47:54.

year, there are no two weighs about that. We did not put our message

:47:54.:47:57.

forward terribly well. People are picking themselves up and getting

:47:57.:48:03.

on with it. What has been exercising the minds of the party

:48:03.:48:08.

faithful this weekend? The elephant in the room is one the Liberal

:48:08.:48:13.

Democrats did not invite, the SNP plans for an independence

:48:13.:48:17.

referendum, that has popped up in just about every single keynote

:48:17.:48:24.

address. I C two D SNP, quit stalling, let's work together, get

:48:24.:48:28.

the wheels in motion and allow people to decide their future in

:48:29.:48:38.

500 days. -- I say to the SNP. timing of the referendum should be

:48:38.:48:44.

dictated by Scotland's national interest. My hope and that of my

:48:44.:48:47.

party is that the people of Scotland choose to stay within the

:48:48.:48:52.

United Kingdom. As an English man I believe that our countries are much

:48:52.:48:57.

stronger together than they would be a part. We all in Scotland want

:48:57.:49:02.

to get on with this debate. Let's have it sooner rather than later.

:49:02.:49:07.

It seems to me perfectly adequate that we could do this within 500

:49:07.:49:16.

days. We do not need to wait the best part of three years. Despite

:49:16.:49:23.

this eagerness to push Alex Salmond towards an early poll in the

:49:23.:49:28.

corridors and bars I felt a lack of buyers at this conference. The

:49:28.:49:32.

speeches and debates were worthy and largely well attended but where

:49:32.:49:37.

was the passion? I do not think Liberal Democrats get up and shout

:49:37.:49:43.

about it, they get on and do it. I had a good conversation with Vince

:49:43.:49:48.

Cable which was gentle but informative. That is our starting

:49:48.:49:52.

block. We are not going to get up and shout, we are quietly

:49:52.:50:01.

passionate. Politicians have got their heads buried in the sand. We

:50:01.:50:06.

have to try every avenue we can to get them to wake up and changed

:50:06.:50:11.

policy, change direction and stop wrecking our heritage. You can

:50:11.:50:15.

often judge party conference by the number of exhibitors or lobbyists

:50:15.:50:20.

keen to push their point of view and products. You in Inverness this

:50:20.:50:26.

weekend they seem to be a bit thin on the ground. I think it is a bit

:50:26.:50:33.

quieter than in Perth last year. There are certainly more people but

:50:33.:50:37.

there seems to be less of the third sector, the voluntary sector this

:50:37.:50:46.

time round. The party in Scotland has moved on from the shock of last

:50:46.:50:52.

May when their number in Holyrood was sliced from 17 to just five.

:50:52.:50:59.

That was then, this is now, say activists. The council elections

:50:59.:51:04.

beckon in just a few weeks and the Lib Dems are confident. The theatre

:51:04.:51:10.

posters may just see it all. I spoke to Nick Clegg just after his

:51:10.:51:15.

speech. He opened by saying liberals from the Highlands and

:51:15.:51:20.

Islands have always been at the heart of the party. So, was the

:51:20.:51:27.

loss of every seat in the bastion of Highland liberalism a price

:51:27.:51:35.

worth paying for a coalition Government? If anyone has an easy

:51:35.:51:38.

alternative to the current economic plight of the country stick it on a

:51:38.:51:43.

postcard and send it to me. The Two's says there are no easy

:51:43.:51:49.

solutions. We have inherited this economic mess from Labour where the

:51:49.:51:55.

banks gorged themselves on bonuses and pushed the economy right to the

:51:55.:52:00.

edge. We in this Government happen to be dead people who have to start

:52:00.:52:06.

putting the pieces back together again. It requires unpopular

:52:06.:52:12.

decisions and controversial decisions. My judgment is doing

:52:12.:52:18.

best repair job to the economy is our first duty. I make no apologies

:52:18.:52:23.

at all in seeing that four time to time it is not bad for politicians

:52:23.:52:29.

to do the right thing. It might not easy to do the right thing in the

:52:29.:52:32.

national interest. I certainly feel that even those people who were

:52:33.:52:39.

angry last year are at least now prepared to accept the motives of

:52:39.:52:43.

the Liberal Democrats entering the coalition when you compare what is

:52:43.:52:53.
:52:53.:52:53.

going on in other countries of the eurozone, ours are good motives.

:52:53.:52:58.

we look at how some Liberal Democrats in Government conduct

:52:59.:53:06.

themselves, you mentioned Danny Alexander, you said he is good at

:53:06.:53:12.

negotiating with the unions, do you sense there are many Lib-Dem voters

:53:12.:53:17.

who feel that Danny Alexander has engaged in union-bashing with

:53:17.:53:24.

unseemly haste? First, I would suggest a little sense of humour is

:53:24.:53:32.

always worthwhile. Not nesses sadly when pensions are going down the

:53:32.:53:42.
:53:42.:53:45.

stream? -- ness Sally. -- necessarily. The pension system we

:53:45.:53:55.
:53:55.:53:59.

inherited is widely recognised to be unsustainable. I think what

:53:59.:54:02.

Danny Alexander has done in negotiating a fair pension

:54:02.:54:07.

settlement with the trade unions is to guarantee public sector pensions

:54:07.:54:12.

to remain among the best pensions available in the UK. It is an

:54:12.:54:18.

incredibly Porter and.. You casually suggest that somehow

:54:18.:54:22.

public sector pensions are being decimated, they are actually being

:54:22.:54:32.
:54:32.:54:33.

retained as some of the best. We do not have anything remotely like the

:54:33.:54:42.

pensions elsewhere. Someone like Danny Alexander is especially

:54:42.:54:52.

favourable and protective to get a progressive and come. People in the

:54:52.:54:58.

Highlands, if there are boundary changes, whose lines do you think

:54:58.:55:08.
:55:08.:55:10.

time best with the voters here in the Highlands? I think both China

:55:10.:55:20.
:55:20.:55:22.

with they're voters. But to do you think will win? I am not going to

:55:22.:55:25.

pretend that they are at the opposite ends of some political

:55:25.:55:33.

scale. Perhaps they both believe it is important for people in politics

:55:33.:55:42.

to combine something that is unique to the Liberal Democrats. There is

:55:42.:55:47.

nothing feared by simply struggling -- shrugging your folders and

:55:47.:55:52.

saying we will get our children and grandchildren two p of this debt.

:55:52.:55:56.

We have to do the hard work for the future demonstrations -- future

:55:56.:56:06.
:56:06.:56:08.

generations. The Liberal Democrats have a progressive instinct to

:56:08.:56:18.
:56:18.:56:19.

reform the pensions and tax needs. You say you are not stopping at the

:56:19.:56:28.

Scotland Bill. Is it being overtaken effectively? No. It would

:56:28.:56:32.

be very odd to spurn the Scotland Bill when it is the largest

:56:32.:56:37.

transfer of money since the Act of Union. Why not tell people who you

:56:37.:56:42.

are actually? That is like seeing if you are on a journey you should

:56:42.:56:47.

not take the first step because you may not take the last step.

:56:47.:56:53.

Devolution is a process, not a tablet of stone. It is a process

:56:53.:57:00.

and a debate. If you look at Catalonia in Spain. It is a

:57:00.:57:05.

constant shifting debate about how many powers devolved from the

:57:05.:57:10.

centre to the nations. My own view, very clearly, is that you cannot

:57:10.:57:18.

have that debate. Liberals believe in home rule long before the SNP's

:57:18.:57:24.

began debating for independence. We set up a commission to seek to

:57:24.:57:29.

define what home rule looks like. You cannot really have that debate

:57:29.:57:36.

of further devolution to Scotland or for that matter, Wales, until

:57:36.:57:46.
:57:46.:57:49.

you know whether the United Kingdom Without for one moment it turning

:57:49.:57:58.

one's nose up at a Scotland gaining far greater authority over how

:57:58.:58:03.

money is raised at unspent. Scots cannot make up their mind about

:58:03.:58:06.

whether they want to stay in the United Kingdom unless they have a

:58:06.:58:13.

very clear idea about what the options will be if they say no to

:58:13.:58:17.

independence. Perhaps it is about treating the electorate in Scotland

:58:17.:58:27.
:58:27.:58:30.

as adults. What the SNP is suggesting, that you put the

:58:30.:58:39.

prospect of independence on the ballot paper, and then you put them

:58:39.:58:43.

further options on devolution. That is mixing things up and is somewhat

:58:43.:58:53.

cynical in I -- in my view. It is if they do not have the courage of

:58:53.:58:56.

their convictions. They want to take out an insurance policy at the

:58:57.:59:03.

same time. If you have those two Questions, and everyone says yes to

:59:03.:59:13.
:59:13.:59:16.

both, which one do you pick? The experience I have had from

:59:16.:59:20.

referendums and observers also say this, if you want to be grown up

:59:20.:59:24.

with the electorate, give them a simple choice on a key question. Do

:59:24.:59:28.

not mix things up. I think everybody can understand that.

:59:28.:59:34.

There is a simple chronology. First, decide whether Scotland remains in

:59:34.:59:38.

the United Kingdom, then have this debate which we are kick-starting

:59:38.:59:44.

hear about further devolution of powers to Scotland. If you look at

:59:44.:59:51.

the Calman Commission and the Scotland Bill... You think progress

:59:52.:59:56.

is a rapid and radical? If you look at the progress from the

:59:56.:00:01.

establishment of the quarry rid of Parliament through to the Scotland

:00:01.:00:10.

Bill in a matter of years, compared to hundreds of years of nothing

:00:10.:00:18.

moving at all. Could you explain your comment about not putting

:00:18.:00:25.

Scotland in a box? The choice of taking Scotland out of the United

:00:25.:00:29.

Kingdom or keeping things as they are, just advocating the status quo

:00:29.:00:36.

would be like putting Scotland in a box. If we move onto the green

:00:36.:00:45.

energy statement, how do deliver that agreeing economic renaissance?

:00:45.:00:51.

We are delivering that already with hundreds of millions of pounds of

:00:51.:00:55.

investment into Scotland, producing hundreds and thousands of jobs. We

:00:55.:01:03.

are innovating as a government, setting up a green investment

:01:03.:01:09.

bank... Is that definitely coming to Scotland? That announcement will

:01:09.:01:18.

be made to by Vince Cable. If you want a renaissance in alternative

:01:18.:01:22.

energy in Scotland, that would be a logical thing to do? There is

:01:23.:01:27.

competition between different cities and towns over who is to

:01:27.:01:32.

host the Green Investment Bank. It could be located on Mars, it does

:01:32.:01:42.

not really matter, because what it does is provide money for renewable

:01:42.:01:51.

energies. If we get it right, it could mobilise about �15 billion of

:01:52.:01:59.

money. A real cream investment revolution. And Scotland has these

:01:59.:02:06.

fantastic natural resources, almost unparalleled in the world. But the

:02:06.:02:09.

government pulled their funding from the Longannet project on

:02:10.:02:17.

carbon capture. That project did not work in the way in which it had

:02:17.:02:26.

been designed. There was a considerable amount of money

:02:26.:02:36.
:02:36.:02:38.

invested. I personally believe that carbon it capture projects are

:02:38.:02:44.

incredibly important. Talking about her energy bills, in the Highlands,

:02:44.:02:54.
:02:54.:02:59.

the fuel duty a reduction, Charles Kennedy is saying this should be

:02:59.:03:04.

extended throughout the whole of the Highlands. In Caithness and

:03:04.:03:10.

Sutherland, people have to travel for greater distances. Wherever you

:03:10.:03:15.

go and the country, people see it would be good to extend it. If I

:03:15.:03:19.

asked my constituents in Sheffield, people would say it would be nice

:03:19.:03:24.

to have a fuel duty exemption in South Yorkshire as well. Fuel is

:03:24.:03:31.

very expensive or. We have the highest prices ever. But the pilot

:03:31.:03:35.

that Danny Alexander has pioneered is incredibly important and he has

:03:35.:03:41.

made a compelling and successful case that is the areas to which it

:03:41.:03:50.

applies face quite a unique challenges. So that is a negative -

:03:50.:03:55.

- and no to the rest of the Highlands? We will have to see how

:03:55.:04:03.

the pilot works. On Friday, a conference hosted by

:04:03.:04:06.

The Times in Edinburgh debated the future of the Union. The Sunday

:04:06.:04:08.

Politics met up with constitutional experts, economists and leading

:04:08.:04:11.

politicians who debated the issues to sample their views on the future

:04:11.:04:19.

of Scotland and the independence The union has been in a state of

:04:19.:04:29.
:04:29.:04:36.

organic change it ever since 7007. There have been adjustments, --

:04:36.:04:46.
:04:46.:04:46.

1707. This could be seen as an attempt to the -- it to be invented

:04:47.:04:51.

the union. It is not a question of economics. It is a question about

:04:51.:04:55.

identity. Who do the Scots have think they are? I think the near

:04:55.:05:00.

future, it is our very interesting conversation for people throughout

:05:00.:05:05.

this country about who we are, what is the nature of our identity?

:05:05.:05:12.

There is a technical conversation, how to be run our economies, and

:05:12.:05:22.

pay for our cells in the future? -- ourselves. Scotland would in

:05:22.:05:26.

economic terms be in much of the same place as an independent

:05:26.:05:31.

country as part of the union. Not much better or much worse. There

:05:31.:05:36.

are some big issues that need to be looked into. Post independence,

:05:36.:05:41.

would Scotland be a high tax, high spent country, or would it be a

:05:41.:05:48.

low-tax, low spent country? That has huge implications. For Scotland

:05:48.:05:53.

to be successful, it is better to do it within the union. But to be

:05:53.:06:01.

successful, Scotland needs greater fiscal powers. We would suggest

:06:01.:06:06.

that Scotland is given the wherewithal to raise the money it

:06:06.:06:16.
:06:16.:06:17.

needs. It is a revolving Union. It changed a hundred years ago, it

:06:17.:06:21.

changed 10 years ago. But most people want to have a common

:06:21.:06:28.

political identity with people in England and Wales. A very strong at

:06:28.:06:32.

the very reasonable argument can be made for more powers short of

:06:32.:06:37.

independence. It is not one that I support, but there is an argument

:06:37.:06:42.

that can be made. But there is no cohesion, no clarity and low sense

:06:42.:06:46.

of coming-together on the unionist campaign at the moment. There will

:06:46.:06:56.
:06:56.:06:57.

be an all-party campaign which will particularly the case for people

:06:57.:07:04.

staying in the United Kingdom. Canada, in Quebec, they had an

:07:04.:07:10.

independence referendum. This issue of Scotland's relationship with the

:07:10.:07:20.
:07:20.:07:21.

union is one that will be continuously negotiated. Across the

:07:21.:07:27.

UK, thoughts have been turning to what independence might mean for

:07:27.:07:31.

the other home nations. This Thursday saw Wales celebrate St

:07:31.:07:41.
:07:41.:07:42.

David's Day. We have been finding out why Wales is taking such a keen

:07:42.:07:52.
:07:52.:07:53.

It became clear that the Scottish people will vote on independence in

:07:53.:07:58.

just over two years. It may be Scotland's referendum, but that

:07:58.:08:07.

cannot be separated from Wales' future. It cannot be underestimated

:08:07.:08:12.

how a major a ripple effect the current debate is having across the

:08:12.:08:17.

rest of the UK. Especially in Wales. From the Welsh point of view, of

:08:17.:08:25.

what would be left would be unrecognisable. If Scotland votes

:08:25.:08:35.
:08:35.:08:41.

for independence, Wales would be part -- of a rump. The Welsh

:08:41.:08:44.

Assembly building sets in Cardiff quo stop some Assembly members say

:08:44.:08:47.

that the outcome of the Scottish debate is so important that it

:08:47.:08:56.

cannot be ignored by Welsh unionist politicians. We do not get a boat

:08:56.:09:03.

in the Scottish referendum, but we need a voice. It has an effect on

:09:03.:09:10.

what will happen to us in the future. Last year, the Assembly got

:09:10.:09:16.

power to make laws in devolved areas. Nationalists believe that

:09:16.:09:21.

they can use the Scottish debate to push for further powers here,

:09:21.:09:26.

perhaps even independence for Wales. He if the Scottish people board es

:09:26.:09:29.

in an independence referendum, the United Kingdom will no longer exist.

:09:29.:09:34.

We need to be thinking what kind of future we have for Wales. There is

:09:34.:09:39.

a danger that we will remain within a United Kingdom per England is so

:09:39.:09:49.
:09:49.:09:51.

completely dominant that are voice will not be heard. -- our voice.

:09:51.:09:58.

recent BBC Wales and Paul suggests that patriot is it does not

:09:58.:10:07.

transferred into a national -- into a desire for independence. The

:10:07.:10:12.

First Minister Carwyn James hosted celebrations for St David's Day in

:10:12.:10:22.

Brussels. I am ever keen to follow anybody off the edge of a clever

:10:22.:10:25.

boy stop it is a matter for the people of Scotland what happens

:10:25.:10:32.

there. We need to look at the structure of the UK now rather than

:10:32.:10:35.

wait to see what happens in Scotland. It is something that

:10:35.:10:42.

affects the whole of the UK. comments have been echoed by a

:10:42.:10:46.

former First Minister of Wales who said that Unionists should campaign

:10:46.:10:52.

positively across the UK. general, I think it is much easier

:10:52.:10:57.

and more positive to be campaigning for a yes it to something. It is

:10:57.:11:07.
:11:07.:11:09.

either yes to independence, adage should be yes to constitutional

:11:10.:11:14.

Convention and a commission which determines the funding formula that

:11:14.:11:18.

determines what Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland and England get in

:11:18.:11:24.

terms of tax take. All parties agree that Wales is badly served by

:11:24.:11:27.

the Barnett formula which is how money is allocated to the devolved

:11:28.:11:32.

nations. An independent report found a short fall of �300 million

:11:32.:11:37.

a year missing from the Welsh budget. Scotland is widely regarded

:11:37.:11:45.

here as being over funded by Barnet. Alex Salmond told me that he would

:11:45.:11:52.

not support my campaign for a change in the Barnett formula and a

:11:52.:11:58.

change in the way that the Barnett Formula is allocated unless

:11:58.:12:03.

Scotland had control of its own oil and gas resources. At the moment,

:12:03.:12:09.

the Assembly has no control over taxation. But a recent survey

:12:09.:12:16.

suggests two-thirds of voters wants that to change. The Calman

:12:16.:12:19.

Commission is considering whether for the powers would be useful for

:12:19.:12:27.

the Welsh Assembly. And some of the smaller taxes may have come to the

:12:27.:12:37.
:12:37.:12:37.

Welsh government. These are children of a devolved to Wales. By

:12:37.:12:42.

devolution is a process, not an event. The signs are that things

:12:42.:12:48.

will continue to change. For Scotland does it may go some way to

:12:48.:12:58.
:12:58.:13:03.

shipping exactly what those changes I am joined now by an expert in

:13:03.:13:07.

Welsh politics. What is your impression of the effect of the

:13:07.:13:13.

Scottish debate in Wales? I think we need to distinguish between the

:13:13.:13:19.

popular level and the political class. At the popular level it is

:13:19.:13:29.

not all about Scotland. The Welsh people, having just approved

:13:29.:13:33.

devolution by the narrowest of margins, have moved quite rapidly

:13:33.:13:41.

into embracing the concept. One year ago today was when we were

:13:41.:13:49.

looking at the results of the last referendum. That is not really

:13:49.:13:54.

impacted by what is happening in Scotland, so far at least. The

:13:54.:14:00.

political class, on the other hand, is actually increasingly obsessed

:14:00.:14:04.

with what is going on in Scotland and think this is momentous. Many

:14:04.:14:09.

of them seem to believe that Scotland will vote yes in a

:14:09.:14:18.

referendum. They think that Alex Salmond's nationalists are winning

:14:18.:14:25.

the debate. Therefore, they are very concerned. It does not have

:14:25.:14:29.

that kind of resonance and the popular level. But imagine what we

:14:30.:14:36.

have just heard, the Secretary for Wales and former First Minister are

:14:36.:14:39.

seeing we should have a constitutional convention for the

:14:39.:14:45.

whole of the UK. We have the present First Minister for Wales

:14:45.:14:47.

saying that it Scotland goes Independent we should federalising

:14:47.:14:55.

what remains of the UK. These are very radical solutions. There is a

:14:55.:14:59.

suggestion that even in Wales the status quo is possibly not an

:14:59.:15:08.

option in the long term. We have a commission meetings here in Wales

:15:08.:15:15.

at the moment looking at the issue of proper tax-varying powers. Plaid

:15:15.:15:22.

Cymru are actually involved in this. They will almost certainly

:15:22.:15:28.

recommend some form of tax are being powers to Wales. The unions

:15:28.:15:35.

are very nervous about that and want to look again at the Barnett

:15:35.:15:41.

formula. People here in Wales believe that gives Wales a bad deal

:15:41.:15:46.

and we tend to think that Scotland get far too much money out of the

:15:46.:15:51.

Barnett formula. Linking those things together makes it extremely

:15:51.:16:00.

difficult for the UK Government to find a way through that. What was

:16:00.:16:05.

interesting is when you look at the BBC survey about who wanted more

:16:05.:16:11.

powers, 36 % overall said that there should be. Off fluent Welsh

:16:11.:16:17.

speakers 54 % said there should be more powers. The identity politics

:16:17.:16:21.

as it were, someone who identify is very strongly with Wales thinks

:16:21.:16:26.

there should be more powers? Absolutely, although that has

:16:26.:16:32.

changed since 1997. At that point that tendency was even more

:16:32.:16:37.

pronounced. Welsh speakers were overwhelmingly in favour of more

:16:37.:16:45.

powers than non-Welsh speakers. Wales has become more unified

:16:45.:16:50.

around this issue than it used to be and less divided along

:16:50.:16:54.

linguistic lines even though that remains quite a striking Division

:16:55.:16:59.

looking from the outside. I am sorry, we are out of time on this.

:16:59.:17:05.

You could write a whole book on this, I know you have. There is a

:17:05.:17:13.

plug! Now the lunchtime news with Gillian smart. Margaret Curran will

:17:13.:17:23.
:17:23.:17:24.

use her speech in Dundee to the Labour conference -- target the

:17:24.:17:30.

Labour conference. Where is Michael Moore? He is missing in action. He

:17:30.:17:35.

is hands-on when it comes to welfare cuts. Love can be 8,000

:17:35.:17:40.

disabled children who will lose their benefits. He has been sitting

:17:40.:17:46.

with the Tories and it is just not acceptable. Willie Rennie has told

:17:46.:17:50.

the Lib Dem conference he is prepared to work with the SNP to

:17:50.:17:58.

deliver more Holyrood powers but only after the 'no' vote on

:17:58.:18:04.

Scottish Independence. It may be that after the 'no' vote the SNP

:18:04.:18:10.

can survive the ending of their dream. We and we could well be able

:18:10.:18:19.

to work together afterwards to shape the future for Scotland. Does

:18:19.:18:24.

welcome noises we have heard recently from Labour will need to

:18:24.:18:34.
:18:34.:18:35.

be nurtured as well. There were allegations in the Sunday newspaper

:18:35.:18:43.

against Bill Walker over allegations of domestic violence.

:18:44.:18:46.

Police forces say they have received a number of calls

:18:46.:18:52.

reporting what is believed to be a meteor. Reports of a bright light

:18:53.:18:59.

with an orange grove came in in the north of Scotland amid fears that a

:18:59.:19:05.

plane had crashed. Now the weather forecast. It is a West/East split

:19:05.:19:09.

in terms of the weather with the band of rain, sleet and snow

:19:09.:19:13.

finally cleaning from the North Sea coast. There will be sunny spells

:19:13.:19:19.

and wintry showers in the West. Temperatures around seven Celsius.

:19:19.:19:26.

It will be a cold night tonight. Tomorrow will be brighter generally.

:19:26.:19:30.

Probably the best day of the week as it is turning unsettled. That is

:19:31.:19:37.

all for now. Back to Isabel. In a moment we will be discussing the

:19:37.:19:43.

big events in Holyrood but firstly a more detailed look back at the

:19:43.:19:53.
:19:53.:19:56.

week in 60 seconds. De devo plus campaign called for a substantial

:19:56.:20:06.
:20:06.:20:11.

increase in powers for Holyrood. In a statement to Parliament Kenny

:20:11.:20:17.

MacAskill denied allegations about the release of Abdelbaset al-

:20:17.:20:22.

Megrahi. I did not suggest to anyone connected with the Libyan

:20:22.:20:27.

Government ought to Mr al-Megrahi himself that abandoning his appeal

:20:27.:20:32.

against conviction would in any way eat or affect his application for

:20:32.:20:38.

compassionate release. The Fraser of Alan institute predicted one in

:20:38.:20:47.

10 people would be out of a job by the end of the year. This man

:20:47.:20:52.

admitted posting a picture of Neil Lennon covered in bullet wins on a

:20:52.:21:02.
:21:02.:21:04.

social networking site. And now a new season of political conferences

:21:04.:21:11.

will stop --.. I am joined by the Labour political blogger, Ian Smart.

:21:11.:21:16.

And that the Liberal Democrat the Scottish Lib Dem blogger, Karen

:21:16.:21:21.

Lindsay. Thank you for joining us. Do you think all has been forgiven

:21:21.:21:26.

and forgotten when Nick Clegg walks through the doors at Inverness?

:21:26.:21:31.

There was nothing to forgive him for. He has led our party into

:21:31.:21:36.

Government. He is delivering so many of our manifesto promises. He

:21:36.:21:42.

has cut taxes for people on low and middle incomes. He is putting �60

:21:42.:21:48.

per month back in people's pockets. I think what I would say about that

:21:48.:21:52.

is that we need to find another way, people do not feel particularly

:21:52.:21:59.

rich, but we need to say we pay people's council tax on a couple of

:21:59.:22:03.

months, fill their car for five times. We have given the biggest

:22:03.:22:09.

cash rise in State pension this year. Nick Clegg has been

:22:09.:22:15.

absolutely fantastic. Accepting that you feel that perhaps the

:22:16.:22:21.

message has not gone out as you would like. I do not want to dwell

:22:21.:22:26.

on this but Tavish Scott the former leader had said that Nick Clegg's

:22:26.:22:31.

decision on tuition fees had dried the party into gutter politics.

:22:31.:22:35.

Other members indicated the coalition came at the wrong time

:22:35.:22:39.

for the party going into the Holyrood election. Are you really

:22:39.:22:43.

saying, I think Nick Clegg even in our interview said people were very

:22:43.:22:48.

angry at some of the choices that had to be made. I think that is

:22:48.:22:53.

right. The fact that we inherited such a mess from Labour. If the

:22:53.:22:57.

coalition Government had not taken the action that it had an hour

:22:57.:23:01.

credit rating would have gone, you have seen what has happened in

:23:01.:23:06.

Greece and Spain, we would have bigger deficits than they had. It

:23:06.:23:11.

has been a very, very difficult time. We have had to make difficult

:23:11.:23:16.

decisions. In some ways we are used to that. Lib Dems have taken power

:23:17.:23:21.

in places like Aberdeen and Edinburgh. Labour had left the

:23:21.:23:28.

chronic financial mess. Now Audit Scotland are seeing what a good job

:23:28.:23:33.

has been done in putting the councils on a surer financial

:23:34.:23:42.

footing. Ian, what did Johann Lamont have to do and did she do

:23:42.:23:48.

it? She had to survive and she did. She made a joke about the big

:23:48.:23:52.

beasts or men, do you think there is too much testosterone floating

:23:52.:23:58.

about the debate at the moment? I think there is not enough

:23:58.:24:02.

discussion at the moment. What she had to do was present herself as a

:24:02.:24:07.

credible alternative First Minister. How far do you think the party has

:24:07.:24:12.

to go in getting that image across and also interestingly, what Labour

:24:12.:24:18.

have been trying to do, linking Scottish identity with UK identity,

:24:18.:24:23.

is that an important path than they have to go now? I think the party

:24:23.:24:29.

is trying to find its way slowly to the right position on the national

:24:29.:24:32.

question. The interesting speech was the Douglas Alexander's speech

:24:32.:24:37.

on the Friday which I think did open up the serious in a more

:24:37.:24:42.

worthwhile way. I think what Johann Lamont is on her way to do is to

:24:42.:24:46.

establish herself as a credible leader of the opposition. I think

:24:46.:24:50.

she has a long way to go to establish herself as a credible

:24:51.:24:57.

First Minister. Douglas Alexander was trying to be more radical.

:24:57.:25:02.

Johann Lamont says she is coming up with more radical solutions.

:25:02.:25:07.

think that is dishonest. There are differing opinions. I am more on

:25:07.:25:15.

the Douglas -- Danny Alexander side of the argument. Gordon Brown will

:25:15.:25:20.

be involved in this campaign and Alistair Darling will be involved

:25:20.:25:26.

in Labour's Campaign. How important do you think it is that there is

:25:26.:25:30.

some cross-party co-operation now or do you think, and I am asking

:25:30.:25:36.

you this as a Lib Dem, is that a good or a bad thing if Gordon Brown

:25:36.:25:41.

appears on the platform with David Cameron? I think that it is

:25:41.:25:47.

important that we hear voices from across the political spectrum in

:25:47.:25:52.

this independence referendum debate. What I thought was fantastic

:25:52.:25:54.

yesterday was travels Kennedy on the platform here saying he would

:25:54.:26:01.

live for the family -- the party in the know to independence campaign.

:26:01.:26:06.

Willie Rennie said this morning we have got such a long record on home

:26:07.:26:12.

rule. If we can encourage those sorts of feelings and other parties

:26:12.:26:17.

work with other politicians to develop a home rule solution for

:26:17.:26:25.

Scotland which I think most people would actually want. What do you

:26:26.:26:32.

think of some of these policy areas that Johann Lamont has brought up,

:26:32.:26:36.

be the sound familiar? I've got the best bet of her speech was when she

:26:36.:26:40.

was talking about the policies we could usefully be pursuing, policy

:26:40.:26:44.

choices we would have made differently. The point she made

:26:44.:26:49.

about the future of higher education expenditure was a very

:26:49.:26:55.

well made. And the idea that we are getting this no tuition fees policy

:26:55.:27:02.

on a cost fee basis is actually meaning people in further education

:27:02.:27:08.

are paying for free higher education. And what she was seeing

:27:08.:27:15.

on income taxes? How realistic that is. It seems to be her response.

:27:15.:27:25.
:27:25.:27:34.

Whatever the party line, that seems I do concede that. She is arguing

:27:34.:27:38.

for increased expenditure. She is silent on the second half of the

:27:38.:27:42.

equation. Adding part of the problem that Labour has got at the

:27:42.:27:45.

moment is that they do not make the distinction between better public

:27:45.:27:49.

services and more expensive public services. We have to be on the side

:27:49.:27:58.

of better public services. Do you have any sense that the Lib Dems

:27:58.:28:05.

have done enough to motivate the grass roots? Absolutely it. It has

:28:05.:28:11.

been a lot of work and it has been going on for many months. Lib Dems

:28:11.:28:15.

campaign all year round. There is an amazing sense of optimism around

:28:15.:28:25.
:28:25.:28:29.

here. Long-term optimism. Liberal youth had the most successful fund-

:28:29.:28:33.

raising event ever. I have been setting up a mentoring programme.

:28:33.:28:37.

We have seen it new people coming into the party, talented people,

:28:37.:28:45.

and I look forward to working with them. Candidate selection. Johann

:28:45.:28:55.
:28:55.:28:59.

Lamont says that has to be looked at. Yes, I hope so. They do not

:28:59.:29:03.

bring you on here to be discreet. We need to have a better diversity

:29:03.:29:10.

Political magazine presented by Andrew Neil and Isabel Fraser.


Download Subtitles

SRT

ASS