22/04/2012 Sunday Politics Scotland


22/04/2012

Andrew Neil and Isabel Fraser with the latest political news, including an interview with the Deputy Prime Minister, Nick Clegg.


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Transcript


LineFromTo

Afternoon, folks! Welcome to the Sunday Politics.

:00:37.:00:40.

There's a new word circulating the Westminster village these days.

:00:40.:00:43.

It's not in the Oxford English Dictionary, it begins with O and it

:00:43.:00:48.

means "a bit of a mess". The word is omnishambles and it was used

:00:48.:00:51.

just the other day by Labour leader Ed Milliband to describe the

:00:51.:00:57.

coalition government. It's not the best backdrop for the

:00:57.:01:01.

Coalition parties as they head for elections on May 3rd. And it's a

:01:01.:01:03.

particular headache for the Liberal Democrats, who were already

:01:03.:01:06.

suffering in the polls. We'll be talking to Deputy Prime Minister

:01:06.:01:11.

Nick Clegg in our Sunday Interview. His latest mission, to reform the

:01:11.:01:14.

House of Lords, will be making the headlines tomorrow. But there won't

:01:15.:01:17.

be Coalition consensus. We'll have the latest from the Tory

:01:17.:01:27.
:01:27.:01:30.

backbenches. And on Sunday Politics Scotland...

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Our only women's prison is not working and should be demolished -

:01:33.:01:36.

that's the finding of a commission set up by the Scottish Government.

:01:36.:01:39.

I've been to Cornton Vale to speak to staff and prisoners about what

:01:39.:01:49.
:01:49.:01:49.

Apology for the loss of subtitles for 1526 seconds

:01:49.:27:16.

It is getting that balance right. Why are you putting up so few

:27:16.:27:22.

candidates in the local elections? We lost a lot of councillors last

:27:22.:27:31.

year. We took a real thumping. What we are doing is normal. We are

:27:31.:27:34.

focusing our resources and candidates on those areas where we

:27:34.:27:40.

are strong and can campaign well. Michael Brown, your party's biggest

:27:40.:27:45.

ever donor, is now being extradited from the Caribbean back to this

:27:45.:27:51.

country. He gave your party �2.4 million. He is a convicted

:27:51.:27:55.

fraudster. You have no legal obligation to give the money back

:27:55.:27:58.

but don't you have a moral obligation? I am very pleased he is

:27:58.:28:04.

coming back to serve his sentence. I should stress this is something

:28:04.:28:11.

that happened before I was even an MP. What I have been told is that

:28:11.:28:15.

the Electoral Commission in 2009 looked at this exhaustively as far

:28:15.:28:20.

as the receipt of the money by the Liberal Democrats from one of his

:28:20.:28:22.

companies and they categorically concluded that the money was

:28:22.:28:26.

received in good faith and all the controls and checks her that should

:28:26.:28:29.

have been made were reasonably made by the Liberal Democrats at the

:28:29.:28:33.

time. If we had been shown wanting on those counts, of course, we

:28:33.:28:38.

should pay the money back. whether you knew or not and I

:28:38.:28:41.

accept you did not know but you work in effect in receipt of stolen

:28:41.:28:46.

goods. Don't you have a moral majority to hand the money back?

:28:46.:28:51.

The money was received from a particular company... I am just

:28:51.:28:57.

talking about the principle. If you receive money from someone and you

:28:57.:29:02.

did so on false pretences knowingly and you did not conduct the right

:29:02.:29:05.

checks, of course you should pay the money back. Electoral

:29:05.:29:12.

Commission showed that it was not the case and the Liberal Democrats

:29:12.:29:16.

were fully exonerated. They are all sorts of stories doing the rounds

:29:16.:29:20.

in Westminster that he will stand down either before or after the

:29:20.:29:26.

next election. Can I give you the opportunity to scotch it does today

:29:26.:29:34.

and confirm that you will fight the 2015 election. You bet. Assuming

:29:34.:29:38.

you hold on to your seat, if Parliament results in another hung

:29:38.:29:42.

parliament, are you up for being Deputy Prime Minister again in a

:29:42.:29:46.

different coalition? I will say to you now what I said for months and

:29:46.:29:50.

months no doubt in into these with you before the last election was

:29:50.:29:54.

that I do not think how coalitions are formed should ever be the

:29:54.:29:58.

plaything of individual politicians. You should be driven by

:29:58.:30:00.

instructions from the British people. At the last election, there

:30:00.:30:07.

was only one possible combination that could have led to its stable

:30:07.:30:11.

government. We should always do that in the future. Thank you for

:30:11.:30:21.
:30:21.:30:22.

being with us today. It is approaching 2:30pm.

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Good afternoon and welcome to Sunday Politics Scotland. Coming up

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on the programme: How can we improve the way women are treated

:30:30.:30:32.

by the criminal justice system and stop the revolving door of

:30:32.:30:41.

offenders going in and out of Cornton Vale? I have been here 12

:30:41.:30:45.

years and I am still seeing some goals who are so when I first

:30:45.:30:49.

arrived there who have still never had an adequate opportunity to

:30:49.:30:53.

intervene effectively. And with less than two weeks until

:30:53.:30:57.

voting in the council elections, have you made your decision? I am

:30:57.:31:01.

here in East Renfrewshire looking at the day in a life of a local

:31:01.:31:05.

council to find out wide your vote counts.

:31:05.:31:08.

Cornton Vale women's prison is not fit for purpose and we are locking

:31:08.:31:11.

up too many women who should not be there, undermining efforts to

:31:11.:31:16.

reform those who are a risk to the public. These are the core findings

:31:16.:31:19.

of a commission investigating women in the criminal justice system. We

:31:19.:31:21.

will be talking to the commission chair, the former Lord Advocate

:31:21.:31:24.

Dame Eilish Angiolini in a few minutes, but first I went to

:31:24.:31:28.

Cornton Vale prison earlier this week to meet a group of women who

:31:28.:31:31.

were all serving sentences of more than three years for violent crimes.

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I asked them for their impressions of how the prison system works and

:31:34.:31:41.

how a jail sentence has affected them and their families. You have

:31:41.:31:46.

not just lost your liberation, you have lost contact with your kids,

:31:46.:31:55.

your secure attachment to your kids has been severed. You have

:31:55.:31:58.

committed a crime and gone to prison and they think, that set,

:31:58.:32:04.

but it's not. It is not until you get a big sentence and a Desiree

:32:04.:32:10.

lot of time to think -- it gives you a lot of time to think. You

:32:10.:32:15.

take a lot of things for granted. It is getting a wake-up call.

:32:15.:32:20.

miss your family and kids and your freedom. It is upsetting when you

:32:20.:32:25.

see them going away. I have got nine brothers and two sisters.

:32:25.:32:31.

would you feel if any of them ended up here? I would be very sad. It is

:32:31.:32:41.
:32:41.:32:44.

the loneliest place to be. They come in and go back out and

:32:44.:32:52.

reoffend. There are no programmes. Some of the lasses are not strong

:32:52.:32:59.

enough and commit suicide do stupid things to themselves. With the

:32:59.:33:08.

short-term prisoners they are just in and out. People so they should

:33:08.:33:13.

just lock them up and throw away the key. When you get out as you

:33:13.:33:18.

expect to do shortly... I am going out to nothing. I will be homeless

:33:18.:33:27.

when I get out of prison. No money. The rest of my family are broad and

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so I have not got much support. Basically, I am on my own -- my

:33:33.:33:39.

family are broad. Are you frightened? I am. I am going to

:33:39.:33:45.

struggle with what has happened through my life. I am being

:33:45.:33:48.

punished in here but I am going to punish myself for the rest of my

:33:48.:33:54.

life for what has happened. Do you think you will be back? No chance.

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Definitely not. My family is too precious to me. It has taken me to

:34:00.:34:04.

come here to realise that. There are a lot of nice people in here.

:34:04.:34:10.

Obviously, everybody makes mistakes in their life so you would not

:34:10.:34:14.

think they were in for what they are in for. Sometimes you do need

:34:14.:34:17.

to give people second chances. The commission findings released

:34:17.:34:20.

this week are the latest in a very long line of reports and

:34:20.:34:22.

investigations which have all recommended radical change at

:34:22.:34:25.

Cornton Vale, much of it informed by the opinions and experiences of

:34:25.:34:29.

the front line staff. In Cornton Vale, I sat down with the governor

:34:29.:34:32.

of the prison, Theresa Medhurst, lead doctor Craig Sayers, chaplain

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Bill Taylor and Diane Cairns, a mother and child development worker.

:34:39.:34:42.

I began by asking about what they thought were the most common

:34:42.:34:50.

misconceptions about women in prison. I think people are

:34:50.:34:56.

genuinely taken aback at the kinds of lives that folk are living. I

:34:56.:35:00.

think that is because they are preconceptions which may be are

:35:00.:35:09.

fuelled by the media that there are goodies and baddies we are divided

:35:10.:35:15.

along those kinds of access. From a medical point of view, do you think

:35:15.:35:20.

the women should be here? I believe not. The ones who have short

:35:21.:35:24.

sentences do not really achieve anything within the establishment.

:35:24.:35:27.

We do not have time to achieve things. Potentially, it is

:35:27.:35:31.

dangerous, to open up some of their medical issues. When you are

:35:31.:35:36.

dealing with mothers and children, what do you think of some of the

:35:36.:35:39.

key public misconceptions about prison life? That they get

:35:39.:35:43.

everything handed to them on a plate and that things are easy for

:35:43.:35:48.

them. They have now got someone else looking after their children.

:35:48.:35:53.

A lot of these women want to look after the children. What we do like

:35:53.:35:57.

to do that you cannot do at the moment and why can you not direct?

:35:57.:36:03.

Probably the biggest thing is to have more of a focus on those women

:36:03.:36:08.

in here who present the greatest risk to the public, those who are

:36:08.:36:12.

here long term and those whose behaviour is high-risk. At the

:36:12.:36:16.

moment, we have to spend significant periods of time

:36:16.:36:22.

managing women in and out of custody. That is because of the

:36:22.:36:25.

short-term nature of the population. There is very little we can do so

:36:25.:36:29.

it is very difficult for us and if it is difficult for us, how

:36:29.:36:32.

difficult must it be for those women? What indication does that

:36:32.:36:35.

have won a medical basis if what you are saying is that with a lot

:36:35.:36:38.

of these women who have severe problems you do not have time to do

:36:39.:36:42.

anything with them? It has a significant impact. When they

:36:42.:36:48.

arrive, we need to be consistent so we cannot treat gulls to friendly

:36:48.:36:52.

for different postcodes in terms of medication. We have longer term

:36:52.:36:57.

plans to help address addictions, physical health issues, mental

:36:57.:37:01.

health issues, but week require a significant period of time to

:37:01.:37:07.

address those to any satisfactory standard. Lots used drugs not for

:37:07.:37:13.

enjoyment but to plant have dramatic -- traumatic past issues.

:37:13.:37:17.

To open those can of worms and then release them to we Slater is a

:37:17.:37:21.

dangerous thing to do. What kind of work do you do with the women and

:37:21.:37:24.

children? We have women who have never experienced parenting

:37:25.:37:27.

themselves so they do not know what to do with their child. That is

:37:28.:37:32.

difficult. We have women who have had good parenting skills but have

:37:32.:37:37.

gone off the rails for whatever reason. Things have become chaotic.

:37:37.:37:41.

The women who have had nothing, it is about starting from the ground,

:37:41.:37:46.

the very basics. What sort of things? They do not know basics

:37:46.:37:49.

stuff on making up bottles, they cannot follow the instructions

:37:49.:37:53.

because there are literary issues may be. And Parenting is such a

:37:53.:37:58.

difficult job. No one ever actually shows us what to do. The only thing

:37:58.:38:05.

that works is intense parenting work that we can do with families

:38:05.:38:09.

and mothers. Given all we know about early years and their

:38:09.:38:13.

importance, how valuable do you think this particular line of work

:38:13.:38:17.

is in prison? Many a lot of our patients will state their

:38:17.:38:24.

motivation to get a better life, to avoid crime, to avoid drug use, is

:38:24.:38:27.

because of their children. They wish to regain custody of their

:38:27.:38:32.

children. So it goes hand in hand. Confidence is a big thing? I think

:38:32.:38:40.

very often we will find women saying things about themselves that

:38:40.:38:44.

betrays their own self-perception which is invariably very low.

:38:45.:38:50.

People think badly of themselves, their behaviour very often is

:38:50.:38:55.

turned in upon themselves through self-harm and very negative

:38:55.:39:00.

thoughts about their lives. Let alone their behaviour. People do

:39:00.:39:09.

not have a sense of a life worth living. I think in many ways that

:39:09.:39:14.

is what we are seeking to restore, to offer people a different self

:39:14.:39:19.

image. If your objective is to make communities better and safer, does

:39:19.:39:27.

this prison work? This present works in respect of -- this prison

:39:27.:39:30.

works in respect of providing support and input and services to

:39:30.:39:36.

those prisoners who was serving longer sentences. Because most of

:39:36.:39:40.

them are statutory cases, they do have the support on release that

:39:40.:39:44.

means that they are more likely to succeed. In that respect, I would

:39:44.:39:52.

say it back Cornton Vale does work. But it does not work with the short

:39:52.:39:58.

term and high remand population because we can offer very little to

:39:58.:40:04.

women who are coming in here for a short period of time. If that were

:40:04.:40:09.

taken away, where the number of prisoners on remand was reduced, if

:40:09.:40:12.

the number of people coming in on short-term sentences was reduced,

:40:12.:40:18.

we would be able to concentrate our efforts far more effectively to get

:40:18.:40:22.

the women to the stage where they are confident about going back out

:40:22.:40:26.

through those gates and have got a realistic chance of turning their

:40:26.:40:31.

lives around when they are released. What should be the alternatives

:40:31.:40:35.

then, do you think? alternatives should be alternatives

:40:35.:40:42.

within the community because essentially we up -- a lot of the

:40:42.:40:46.

problems come from the communities. We are dealing with their behaviour

:40:46.:40:50.

is within the confines of a present but you are not dealing with the

:40:50.:40:54.

community based problems. You can hear people saying, this is about

:40:54.:40:59.

punishment, these people have to serve time. But in your opinion, is

:40:59.:41:04.

it working in a punishment cents, a medical sense, in any sense at all,

:41:04.:41:10.

for these short-term prisoners? the short-term prisoners, no. It

:41:10.:41:12.

destabilises some of the environments that are stable. For

:41:12.:41:16.

some it is vague brief time-out from extremely chaotic environments

:41:16.:41:20.

outside but not enough time to change their environments. I have

:41:20.:41:25.

been here 12 years and I am still seeing some girls who I saw when I

:41:25.:41:28.

first arrived who on short sentences and has still never had

:41:28.:41:32.

an adequate opportunity to intervene effectively. What do you

:41:32.:41:37.

think about this idea that people are just swirling around the system

:41:37.:41:39.

and not being dealt with and therefore communities are not safe

:41:39.:41:45.

for? That is definitely what I find as well. These are the women that

:41:45.:41:53.

will not engage with services and activities. They tend to opt out a

:41:53.:41:57.

lot of the time because they know it is a short sentence and they

:41:57.:42:01.

will be back out doing whatever it is they want to do. Who are the

:42:01.:42:06.

women in here? The women in here are just women, normal women like

:42:06.:42:11.

you and died. How many judges, sheriffs, come to Cornton Vale to

:42:11.:42:14.

say, let me have a look at the programmes and where women are

:42:14.:42:18.

being held and how effective your programs are? In almost three years,

:42:18.:42:26.

I have not had any asked to come and look around. None. The effect

:42:26.:42:30.

of that? I do not think there is an understanding of what we can do

:42:30.:42:36.

here. I do not think there is an appreciation of the damage that can

:42:36.:42:42.

be done by some of the short-term sentences and how that impacts on

:42:42.:42:47.

our ability to be able to address those with the more complex needs.

:42:47.:42:51.

Thank you. I am joined now by the QC and

:42:51.:42:53.

former Lord Advocate, Dame Ailish Angolini who chaired the Commission

:42:53.:43:01.

on Women Offenders. Thank you for coming in. If we start with the

:43:01.:43:05.

premise that the objective is to cut reoffending and make

:43:05.:43:09.

communities safer, who should be in prison and he shouldn't? Every case

:43:09.:43:18.

differs and the individual factors are important. Human beings... One-

:43:18.:43:23.

size-fits-all will inevitably be crude. Essentially, the interviews

:43:23.:43:26.

which she carried out of their summarise it very neatly. It is

:43:26.:43:30.

those who are a danger to the community, those who have committed

:43:30.:43:35.

very serious crimes and who cannot be left safely in the community.

:43:36.:43:41.

The difficulty is that they are a very small number of the population

:43:41.:43:44.

currently in Cornton Vale. The very large numbers are those committing

:43:44.:43:48.

offences which are serious and the sense that they do disturb the

:43:48.:43:51.

community but require effective management and to be tackled in an

:43:51.:43:55.

effective way and the sentences do not do that. They are not working.

:43:55.:44:02.

What do you think would be more constructive? The commission report

:44:02.:44:07.

outlines what we believe would be a radical reworking of the current

:44:07.:44:11.

system. They are very good alternatives to custody in the

:44:11.:44:14.

community which provide a punishment, paying back to the

:44:14.:44:19.

community. So very often, the community can then benefit from the

:44:19.:44:24.

work of offenders. Also, allowing people to tackle the underlying

:44:24.:44:28.

causes of their behaviour. Many of the women in Cornton Vale have

:44:28.:44:33.

significant mental health problems. Many of them self-harm because they

:44:33.:44:37.

have such self-loathing and low self-esteem. Many also have

:44:37.:44:41.

suffered sexual and physical abuse through their lives. They have had

:44:41.:44:47.

very ghastly child puts, many of them. Many of them are victims of

:44:47.:44:52.

crime. The idea that there's a dichotomy of those who are accused

:44:52.:44:55.

of crime and the victims is artificial. They overlap very

:44:55.:45:05.
:45:05.:45:06.

We had a statement yesterday from victim Support Scotland. They say a

:45:06.:45:12.

huge percentage of women, there is nowhere else to put them. They

:45:12.:45:15.

support community-based programmes were those sentences of six months

:45:15.:45:20.

or less. When we see the examples of their ligature cell in Cornton

:45:20.:45:24.

Vale, where women and bought her who are a very high risk to

:45:24.:45:27.

themselves are held, one would almost think that the mental health

:45:27.:45:33.

problems of these women justify sectioning them. What sort of

:45:33.:45:39.

people are going in there and can they be effectively treated? Where

:45:39.:45:41.

there are very serious mental health problems, they are dealt

:45:41.:45:46.

with effectively. But there are many women who have what would be

:45:46.:45:51.

conditions that would be treated by primary care, through GPs or

:45:51.:45:54.

psychologists or psychiatrists, but because of their personalities or

:45:54.:45:58.

the chaotic nature of their lifestyles, they tend to self-

:45:58.:46:05.

medicate with drugs and alcohol and do not go to the doctor. They

:46:05.:46:10.

simply sometimes allow a mental health conditions to deteriorate.

:46:10.:46:13.

There needs to be a different nature of programme towards these

:46:13.:46:18.

women. We need to take them out of the officers and into the streets

:46:18.:46:24.

to become Street doctors. That style of thinking also includes the

:46:24.:46:30.

courts. How would a just as harbour or work and would it be a lot more

:46:31.:46:40.

expensive? -- Justice hob. Over 150 different services are provided in

:46:40.:46:44.

Cornton Vale. It is chaos for the prison trying to deal with all

:46:44.:46:48.

these different programmes. There are different types of funding and

:46:48.:46:54.

sometimes there are there for different times. We need a decent,

:46:54.:46:56.

strong courts led by criminal- justice social workers who are

:46:56.:47:00.

working collaboratively. That is not rocket science. It takes

:47:00.:47:04.

imagination and innovation. It should not take a huge amount of

:47:04.:47:08.

money. There are plenty of people working in silos who need to get it

:47:08.:47:14.

together and work collectively. Thank you.

:47:14.:47:17.

There are other options available for dealing with female offenders

:47:17.:47:20.

who currently receive short term sentences. One such project is the

:47:20.:47:23.

218 service in Glasgow. It works to rehabilitate prisoners and stop

:47:23.:47:26.

them re-offending. We agreed not to fully identify the women who told

:47:26.:47:36.
:47:36.:47:38.

their stories to Kathy Long. For some women who have been inside

:47:38.:47:42.

Cornton Vale, prison has never prevented them from returning to

:47:42.:47:46.

crime. It's never did me any good or I would not be still be going in

:47:46.:47:51.

and out. I just got a five day detox in prison. That was really

:47:51.:47:58.

hard. 218 is an alternative to jail for those who have committed minor

:47:58.:48:02.

offences - shoplifting, breach of the peace or failing to pay a fine.

:48:02.:48:07.

The women here will treat their addictions. They will also attend

:48:07.:48:12.

workshops and classes to give them skills and education. Being sent to

:48:12.:48:15.

a place like this, you are dealing with a drug problems, defending,

:48:15.:48:23.

dealing with everything. This is more appropriate. There is always

:48:23.:48:28.

somebody there to talk to you. If you're having a bad day, there's

:48:28.:48:37.

always someone there. So what is at the soft option? At 218 is a much

:48:37.:48:42.

harder option then prison. When you explore that with a woman that is

:48:42.:48:47.

about to come to 218, they have to do the work and do the programme. A

:48:47.:48:51.

lot of that programmes about looking at themselves. 218 can cost

:48:51.:48:57.

half as much as a prison sentence for the same crime. The rate of

:48:57.:49:01.

reoffending is significantly reduced. I would not offend after

:49:01.:49:09.

coming out of 218. There is no reason. It actually works. You feel

:49:09.:49:14.

like a failure, but this place makes you feel like you have a

:49:14.:49:18.

chance to get right again. Joining me in the studio is the

:49:18.:49:25.

Conservative MSP, Margaret Mitchell. You also the convenor of the

:49:25.:49:31.

Hollywood equal-opportunities committee when it looked as this.

:49:31.:49:36.

You'll be basing your opinions on evidence and expert witness opinion.

:49:36.:49:39.

All the evidence suggests that sentences of six months or less did

:49:39.:49:43.

not work and all the expert opinion seems to say the same thing. So why

:49:43.:49:47.

have the Tories and the Labour Party set their face against

:49:47.:49:53.

getting good of prison sentences of six months or less.

:49:53.:49:58.

It is very much horses-for-courses. What we discovered in the report we

:49:58.:50:00.

did and the equal opportunities committee was that in Cornton Vale,

:50:01.:50:04.

there were far too many people on remand, 70% of which were never

:50:04.:50:11.

going to get a prison sentence. But time and effort, the warders, the

:50:11.:50:14.

people who would be doing Rehabilitation, all their effort

:50:14.:50:18.

was going on looking after these people. We heard about people who

:50:18.:50:22.

had mental health issues. They were not being dealt with. 1% should

:50:22.:50:26.

have been hospitalised. They're still there. Call one reason or

:50:26.:50:32.

other, people do end up on short- term sentences in Cornton Vale. You

:50:32.:50:36.

might look at alternatives, but when you run right of every single

:50:36.:50:39.

alternative you can go to, then there will be, for one reason or

:50:39.:50:43.

another, prisoners there on short- term sentences. Quite frankly,

:50:43.:50:48.

they're getting no support, no help and no resources were given to them.

:50:48.:50:50.

That is where we are fundamentally criticising that nothing is done

:50:50.:50:55.

with these people. Even having someone for one month or two months,

:50:55.:51:00.

think of the things you can do it in terms of the dressing literacy,

:51:00.:51:04.

numeracy and sometimes, from the 218 report as well, speech and a

:51:04.:51:08.

lack of confidence to communicate. All of these things have been known

:51:08.:51:14.

since 2009, when be completed a report. Nothing has been done. The

:51:14.:51:18.

political will has not been there. But the expert opinion is that you

:51:18.:51:22.

can deal with those things, but you better to deal with them not in a

:51:22.:51:26.

prison environment for a few months, or even in a situation where it

:51:26.:51:30.

could be medically dangerous to try to teats -- treat them in that time

:51:30.:51:34.

scale, but to take them into the community and a structured, long-

:51:34.:51:38.

term programmes their. The concern would be but this is just political

:51:38.:51:42.

posturing and lazy thinking to say that you can put these women in

:51:42.:51:50.

prison for six months or less. How did you respond to that? We are not

:51:50.:51:53.

saying put people in prison for less than six months. We are more

:51:53.:51:58.

than happy to look at the alternatives. If you go back to

:51:58.:52:01.

that 2009 report, we praise to the high heavens the work being done in

:52:02.:52:07.

the 218 Centre in Glasgow. We pointed out that the Scottish

:52:07.:52:13.

Government in Edinburgh would love another 218 centre. We said we

:52:13.:52:21.

needed to redress romance. -- address a wee man. There's nothing

:52:21.:52:27.

substantially different in that report but was known in 2009.

:52:27.:52:35.

you create -- agree that it should increase the six months? There

:52:35.:52:40.

should not be a presumption. We should look at each case on its own

:52:40.:52:46.

merits. If there is any element of a potential problem to public

:52:46.:52:50.

safety, then public safety must come first. There is no question

:52:50.:52:56.

there. Beyond that, there is a whole list of interventions that

:52:56.:52:59.

should be put in place and the political will has not been there

:52:59.:53:04.

to do that. If we come back to the point about

:53:04.:53:08.

the prison governor, where we were talking about the judges and how

:53:08.:53:11.

they and the sheriffs had not been to Cornton Vale. What you think

:53:11.:53:19.

about that?'s do report mentions the judiciary specifically.

:53:19.:53:24.

It is important that the judges have confident the alternatives of

:53:24.:53:33.

custody and that the community have that confidence as well. It is very

:53:33.:53:35.

important that this new service that we are recommending measures

:53:35.:53:39.

the impact and can actually demonstrate that reoffending is

:53:40.:53:43.

reduced. Then, the community and the judges will have more

:53:43.:53:47.

confidence. So far as the Conford - - judges are concerned, their

:53:47.:53:53.

training requires to be supported and that the sea and visit prisons

:53:53.:53:58.

regularly. They should be out there. They should be understanding of

:53:58.:54:01.

what they're sending people to. They should be visiting the

:54:01.:54:05.

community alternatives as part of their training to understand what

:54:05.:54:13.

is available. Then, they can actually influence what is working.

:54:13.:54:19.

These are just two of the reports - there are seven substantial ones.

:54:19.:54:23.

You could argue that nothing has changed. What will change because

:54:23.:54:27.

of your report? Like any report, it could gather

:54:27.:54:34.

dust and the words on a shelf. I recommend a Cabinet Secretary to

:54:34.:54:37.

report in six months of what he is going to do. There is a political

:54:37.:54:41.

will and a recognition of it. This gives the politician and the

:54:41.:54:46.

Government the tools to restructure the way this is all done.

:54:46.:54:51.

Thank you. We did ask for the Justice

:54:51.:54:57.

Secretary to be here, he says it is vital that we find a more effective

:54:57.:55:02.

way to deal with women offenders and 21st century Scotland. I will

:55:02.:55:04.

consider this report in detail before making a formal response and

:55:04.:55:06.

summertime. And now here's the news, with

:55:06.:55:08.

Andrew Kerr. The American tycoon Donald Trump is

:55:08.:55:11.

due to fly in to Aberdeen Airport this afternoon. The entrepreneur is

:55:11.:55:14.

giving evidence to a Holyrood committee on Wednesday about

:55:14.:55:16.

renewable energy. He's objecting to a planned offshore wind development

:55:16.:55:21.

near the site of his �1 billion golf resort in Aberdeenshire. Mr

:55:21.:55:23.

Trump claims Scotland is committing financial suicide by creating a

:55:23.:55:29.

windfarm landscape. Officials in the Dominican Republic

:55:29.:55:31.

say the convicted Glasgow-born fraudster, Michael Brown, who was

:55:31.:55:34.

once a major donor to the Liberal Democrats, is being extradited to

:55:34.:55:40.

Britain. He's understood to be on a flight to Madrid, where he's

:55:40.:55:44.

expected to be handed over to the British authorities.

:55:44.:55:47.

Having enough money is not a high priority for Scots, according to

:55:47.:55:51.

Oxfam. A poll carried out for the charity found housing and health

:55:51.:55:54.

were more important to people. Oxfam says this suggests most Scots

:55:54.:55:57.

want enough to provide for their families and that economic measures

:55:57.:56:03.

like GDP are part of a failed economic model.

:56:03.:56:13.
:56:13.:56:13.

And now here's the weather with Another afternoon of sunshine and

:56:13.:56:17.

showers. The best of the driest conditions will be across the Outer

:56:17.:56:22.

Hebrides. Nearly everywhere is at risk of brain. There are cloudier

:56:22.:56:28.

conditions across the East with lighter showers. Not feeling too

:56:28.:56:32.

Babbs with a rise of 12 Celsius. That's the news and weather, our

:56:32.:56:35.

next update is just after 6.30pm this evening. I'll now hand you

:56:35.:56:41.

With the local election campaign underway, the major parties have

:56:41.:56:43.

been voicing their concerns about low turnout. We sent Gilly

:56:43.:56:46.

Mathieson to East Renfrewshire, one of the most politically engaged

:56:46.:56:56.
:56:56.:57:01.

electorates in Scotland to find out why your votes count.

:57:01.:57:10.

I am one of a team of 34 or who looks after 475 kilometres.

:57:10.:57:13.

I am looking out for a glittering offences.

:57:13.:57:18.

We collect glass and waste paper for recycling.

:57:18.:57:24.

Rhodes, community safety, waste and education are some of the policies

:57:24.:57:30.

set at Hollywood but delivered by a local council. These final-year

:57:30.:57:32.

students believe many voters are confused about who is responsible

:57:32.:57:37.

for providing them. People can often get confused about

:57:37.:57:42.

who is running for what and who is standing for what.

:57:42.:57:45.

People don't vote in council elections because they do not

:57:45.:57:48.

understand their own counsel's play in their area. They still think

:57:48.:57:53.

there are decisions come from Government.

:57:53.:57:56.

Part of their remit is to promote health. People think that is the

:57:56.:58:03.

job of the NHS. Scotland's councils spend �18.7

:58:03.:58:07.

billion of our money. In East Renfrewshire, almost 20% of its

:58:07.:58:12.

budget goes on social care services like this, with 11% on the

:58:12.:58:22.
:58:22.:58:23.

environment and half of its budget With polling day less than two

:58:23.:58:28.

weeks away, there are no visible signs of an election campaign in

:58:28.:58:34.

this suburb. There is only one campaign going on and that is the

:58:34.:58:37.

national campaign. I have not seen any campaigning and the local

:58:37.:58:41.

elections. It is almost as if they're not here.

:58:41.:58:46.

People are being bombarded with the media, papers, radio, television

:58:46.:58:51.

and it is either UK or Scotland. They're missing the issues

:58:51.:58:55.

altogether. With the independence referendum

:58:56.:58:58.

expected in 2014, the Paul is an important test of political

:58:58.:59:02.

strength. You have this big national campaign

:59:02.:59:06.

with the parties trying to get on top and then small local campaigns

:59:06.:59:11.

about small local issues. A two- speed campaign.

:59:11.:59:15.

Whatever your reasons for voting on third May, there is a lot at stake

:59:15.:59:24.

for the parties and for the delivery of you are local services.

:59:24.:59:29.

Political magazine presented by Andrew Neil and Isabel Fraser.


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