17/06/2012 Sunday Politics Scotland


17/06/2012

Andrew Neil and Isabel Fraser with the latest political news, interviews and debate. Andrew is joined by Philip Hammond, the defence secretary to discuss troop numbers and Syria.


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Transcript


LineFromTo

Good afternoon. Welcome to Sunday Politics.

:00:46.:00:49.

It is decision day for Greece as the country goes to the polls for

:00:49.:00:53.

the second time this year. Results determine Greek membership of the

:00:53.:01:00.

bureau and could plunge Europe into economic chaos.

:01:00.:01:04.

During the first Gulf war, Britain sent 53,000 troops to the Middle

:01:04.:01:11.

East. Could we fuel anything like that kind of firepower again? I

:01:11.:01:19.

will speak to the Secretary of State for Defence Philip Hammond.

:01:19.:01:22.

And on Sunday Politics Scotland, the SNP Leader of Argyll & Bute

:01:22.:01:25.

Council, admits they made a mistake trying to ban Martha's School Meal

:01:25.:01:34.

blog. And same sex marriage. And I would

:01:34.:01:39.

apologise to mar that if it has cost her any... We will be trying

:01:39.:01:43.

to find a way forward. The Equality Network and the Catholic Church go

:01:43.:01:46.

head to head over how they want the Scottish government to legislate.

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And as the Euro house of cards wobbles, we ask the Scotland Office

:01:49.:01:59.
:01:59.:01:59.

Apology for the loss of subtitles for 1350 seconds

:01:59.:24:30.

how they plan to protect Scotland's We are not comparing ourselves with

:24:30.:24:38.

the Americans. Workforces, even after the changes announced, will

:24:38.:24:48.
:24:48.:24:49.

be, after the Americans, one of the biggest in the world. Let us look

:24:49.:24:59.
:24:59.:25:00.

at Syria. What resources could we contribute? The UK has a fast

:25:00.:25:08.

capability. And no aircraft carriers. We have an air base in

:25:08.:25:13.

Cyprus. It would give us the ability to mount operations in the

:25:13.:25:18.

eastern Mediterranean. A bar to lure strategy involves cutting

:25:18.:25:28.
:25:28.:25:40.

full-time troops and replacing The experts do not think you can

:25:40.:25:47.

compensate. Frankly, the experts are in the British are made and

:25:47.:25:51.

they do think that the Territorial Army can play a more significant

:25:51.:25:55.

role. Under the last government, training budgets for the

:25:55.:26:01.

Territorials were cut. The proxy covenant between the Territorial

:26:01.:26:05.

Army and the reservists. They did not get the training they were

:26:05.:26:12.

promised. What we have done is committed to ring-fenced budget,

:26:12.:26:16.

�1.8 billion over 10 years to provide the Ket and training that

:26:16.:26:22.

the Territorial Army need. They will be integrated more effectively

:26:22.:26:27.

into the regular Army. It has already been talked about that much

:26:27.:26:32.

closer linking of the Territorial Army units with regular units. They

:26:32.:26:36.

can then train together and work up their sticker -- skills together.

:26:36.:26:41.

We believe they would be of significant support. Particularly

:26:41.:26:47.

in a sustained operation. In future, if we do get involved in a

:26:47.:26:52.

sustained operation, as we get into the second and third year, he will

:26:52.:27:00.

start to see bigger proportions of a verb -- reservists. Many famous

:27:00.:27:05.

regiments are on the line in your cuts. Can you guarantee that

:27:05.:27:12.

historic regiments will be just as much of the brunt as English once -

:27:12.:27:22.
:27:22.:27:25.

- Scottish ones. It is focused on how to distribute the reductions in

:27:25.:27:31.

manpower across everything that is based on military Wrobel -- logic

:27:31.:27:36.

will the English or Scottish regiments bear the brunt? I can

:27:36.:27:41.

tell you that the way it is done will be demonstrably failed --

:27:41.:27:48.

demonstrably fair. So that people in the wider community see it as

:27:49.:27:54.

spare and, based on proper logical and -- analysis. Your defence

:27:54.:28:00.

spending, you are some that starts to rise again by 1% in real terms

:28:00.:28:04.

after 2015. The Chancellor has told us there will have to be more

:28:04.:28:11.

spending cuts in 2016 and 2017. Has the then Speaker exempted? The 1%

:28:11.:28:15.

increase in after 2015 is only on the equipment programme. Our budget

:28:15.:28:20.

has been built on the assumption which has agreed with the Treasury

:28:21.:28:25.

that there will be a 1% increase in the equipment purchase and support.

:28:25.:28:30.

Whatever cuts happen elsewhere, you will get that extra 1%? That is the

:28:30.:28:40.
:28:40.:28:49.

Back welcome to Sunday's politics Scotland.

:28:49.:28:56.

Coming up, we ask Scotland Office minister if they think the spending

:28:56.:28:59.

plans for Trident will play badly and Scotland.

:28:59.:29:03.

An epic scale for Argyll and Bute council as this quiet Highland

:29:03.:29:08.

village becomes the focus of intense worldwide interest. The

:29:08.:29:18.
:29:18.:29:20.

school dinner Sagar,... There is no PR jargon, people are blunt about

:29:20.:29:24.

what they think about products and services. There has been a lot of

:29:24.:29:27.

beer and that fear is older men back from engaging.

:29:27.:29:31.

As figures out this week show marriage is on the rise in Scotland,

:29:32.:29:35.

we ask the Equality Network and the collet -- Catholic Church what they

:29:35.:29:38.

think will come out of the government's same-sex marriage

:29:38.:29:44.

consultation. If you have spent the past week

:29:44.:29:48.

going to the revolving door of politicians appearing at Leveson or

:29:48.:29:51.

watching a flame pass by your street, you may have missed a few

:29:51.:29:56.

very significant financial announcements. Our business and

:29:56.:30:02.

economy Ender has the highlights. What money would Scott Hughes if we

:30:02.:30:06.

bought for independence? Would it be a Scottish Power and or perhaps

:30:06.:30:10.

the euro though not too popular right now. Would it be this from

:30:11.:30:15.

the Bank of England. This is the front-runner. The implications of

:30:15.:30:20.

an independent Scotland currency being run from Scotland are causing

:30:20.:30:25.

more trouble than any other issue. In reassuring people that

:30:26.:30:30.

investments and markets will be stable through the transition,

:30:30.:30:34.

Scotland's finance minister at John Swinney went further this week. He

:30:34.:30:37.

suggested regulation of Scotland's banks should be overseen from

:30:37.:30:44.

London. The Bank of England is as much an institution of Scotland as

:30:44.:30:51.

cities of any other part of the United Kingdom. It is essentially

:30:51.:30:54.

providing the type of financial activity that an independent

:30:54.:30:58.

Scotland would require. It happens to provide that within the United

:30:58.:31:05.

Kingdom. What Whitehall agree to that? If so, on what conditions? Is

:31:05.:31:15.
:31:15.:31:18.

it legal under European law? If other financial powers are a shade

:31:18.:31:23.

between Edinburgh and London, would it look much like independence? The

:31:23.:31:27.

awkward contact the -- context is a currency union across the North Sea

:31:27.:31:33.

is feeling. There is a lack of the but it -- political and fiscal

:31:33.:31:42.

union. That crisis is casting a big shadow over economy. The world

:31:42.:31:46.

economy is a much less welcoming environment in which to rebalance

:31:46.:31:52.

the UK economy than two years ago. Not only have the euro area

:31:52.:31:57.

problems escalated, to the point where exit for Greece and other

:31:57.:32:02.

countries is the subject of widespread speculation, but signs

:32:02.:32:06.

of a slowing in China, India and other previously buoyant in

:32:06.:32:12.

emerging economies such as Brazil are appearing daily. It is more

:32:12.:32:17.

than two years since market started punishing other countries for not

:32:17.:32:23.

paying off debts. This weekend in Greece sees a showdown between

:32:23.:32:28.

markets and porters. If austerity is rejected, it may spread

:32:28.:32:36.

contagion to other countries. In turn, that could severely weakened

:32:36.:32:42.

banks based in strong economies, Germany, the Netherlands, vital

:32:42.:32:52.
:32:52.:32:53.

trading partners for us. The Treasury and Bank of England, and

:32:53.:32:59.

this crisis that helps the supply of credit. The problem looks like

:32:59.:33:03.

an increasing lack of demand. Businesses look at the economic

:33:03.:33:08.

weather and they do not want to take a risk on investment.

:33:08.:33:16.

If Anna Westminster studio, we have the Conservative MP David Mundell.

:33:16.:33:22.

Lot of worries about the economy. The SNP are trying to reassure

:33:22.:33:26.

people about the economy and an independent Scotland. We have the

:33:26.:33:30.

Finance Secretary John Swinney saying that retaining the pound

:33:30.:33:34.

under independence is in the best interests of Scotland and for the

:33:34.:33:42.

UK. I think that John Swinney was trying to reassure people as to

:33:42.:33:45.

what the economic situation in Scotland would be after

:33:45.:33:50.

independence, he has seriously have failed. He has raised more

:33:50.:33:57.

questions than he has answered. The issue remains for the SNP who were

:33:57.:34:01.

here again today. They do not want to talk about independence to

:34:01.:34:08.

people in Scotland. What they mean by independence. If they want to

:34:08.:34:13.

keep the arrangements for the currency exactly as they are, what

:34:13.:34:19.

is the purpose of independence? Their proposal would give Scotland

:34:19.:34:26.

much less say over the power and. The Bank of England would not be

:34:26.:34:32.

required to take interest into account. As the Ducie that they

:34:32.:34:42.
:34:42.:34:45.

could have a Scottish member on the Monetary Policy Committee. --

:34:45.:34:51.

reduce C. They are certain things that the EC have already been

:34:51.:34:54.

discussed. There have been no discussions with the Bank of

:34:54.:34:59.

England about how an independent Scotland would seek to operate. All

:34:59.:35:04.

these things are simply assertions. It is like the issue with the EU,

:35:04.:35:09.

there have been no sub-standard discussions about Scotland would be

:35:09.:35:15.

part of the European Community. All these things have not been thought

:35:15.:35:19.

through and it is only now that the spotlight is coming on what

:35:19.:35:23.

independence actually means that the SNP are finally having to

:35:23.:35:27.

answer questions about these really significant issues for economy.

:35:27.:35:33.

us look at the bank lending scheme that was announced. The SNP claim

:35:33.:35:39.

this is papering over the cracks. There are substantial ways to boost

:35:39.:35:45.

jobs and the economy. I have heard so much about the shop already

:35:45.:35:51.

projects. The answer to them is that the SNP have had over �1

:35:51.:35:55.

billion in addition monies which they did not to participate from

:35:55.:35:59.

the consequence -- Comprehensive spending Review. They could take

:35:59.:36:02.

policy choices to spend money on the show already projects. They

:36:02.:36:08.

have not done so. This whole exercise is actually a smokescreen

:36:08.:36:13.

for not taking responsibility for for their own policy decisions.

:36:13.:36:18.

That is what having a parliament is about. It is about making decisions

:36:18.:36:22.

and taking responsibility for them. The SNP have chosen not to proceed

:36:22.:36:27.

with their own budget for these shop already projects. If Mr

:36:27.:36:36.

Salmond wants to take that issue, he should not the British

:36:36.:36:42.

government. They Greeks are going to the polls. What is a concern for

:36:42.:36:46.

Scotland if Greece believes the euro? What is David Cameron doing

:36:46.:36:53.

in Mexico? It is a matter for the Greek people as to who they bought

:36:53.:37:03.

for her and we will see that later on today. -- Gaisce Awards. It is

:37:03.:37:12.

beneficial that Greece remains within the euro. There is no doubt

:37:12.:37:19.

that it would impact on the halt the UK. It would impact on Scotland.

:37:19.:37:24.

We cannot isolate our economy as we have seen across the UK and in

:37:24.:37:29.

Scotland from what is happening in the Eurozone. We must hope that we

:37:29.:37:32.

can get a resolution in Greece which sees Greece stay in the

:37:33.:37:42.
:37:43.:37:46.

Eurozone but with, on a basis that allows that to be sustainable.

:37:47.:37:52.

us look at another issue. Philip Hammond was spelling out his plans

:37:52.:37:57.

for its nuclear reactors. This has been the reaction from the SNP.

:37:57.:38:01.

This is the tip of the expert is far as expenditure is concerned. It

:38:01.:38:07.

is estimated that the outturn across the weapons system could be

:38:07.:38:13.

up to �25 billion. What is quite clear from Scotland is that the

:38:13.:38:17.

people of Scotland are opposed to nuclear weapons systems on the

:38:17.:38:23.

Clyde. The Scottish Parliament is supposed. An issue but civic

:38:23.:38:29.

Scotland, the Scottish churches are paused and saw the trade unions. It

:38:29.:38:33.

is an obscenity that we are pressing ahead at this time with

:38:33.:38:37.

this particular system. Pressing ahead with this system, David

:38:37.:38:44.

Mundell, as he was pointing out, the Scottish population as opposed

:38:44.:38:48.

to this. This will not play well for you in Scotland on the approach

:38:48.:38:54.

to the referendum, will it? I think his response is entirely

:38:54.:39:00.

predictable. I think he would be better spending his time telling us

:39:00.:39:04.

how independent Scotland is going to be defended. The government

:39:04.:39:09.

policies are quite clear. What we don't know was what the SNP plan

:39:09.:39:13.

for Defence in relation to Scott Flinders. We do not know what we

:39:13.:39:23.
:39:23.:39:26.

will be in or out of any tour. -- NATO. We also know that there are

:39:26.:39:30.

thousands of jobs in Scotland related to Faslane. We have heard

:39:30.:39:40.
:39:40.:39:43.

nothing about how they will go to be redeployed. I think the sub-

:39:44.:39:47.

standard question on defence are for the SNP to answer. He were

:39:47.:39:52.

talking about plans under independence. Scottish CND have

:39:52.:39:58.

published their plan on disarmament. This leaves the UK Government and

:39:58.:40:04.

effects of Scotland becomes independent. I think everyone

:40:04.:40:09.

understands although the SNP's seemed no unwilling to admit it,

:40:09.:40:12.

but there will be significant differences in Scotland is

:40:12.:40:19.

independent. There will be differences on defence, a currency,

:40:19.:40:25.

our economy, potential differences in membership of the EU. They must

:40:25.:40:30.

tell us what these differences would mean, what an independent

:40:30.:40:33.

Scotland would look like and why it is better than the arrangement we

:40:34.:40:39.

have as part of the United Kingdom. The onus is on them to come up with

:40:39.:40:47.

the answers. Thank you. A social media onslaught forced a

:40:47.:40:50.

small Scottish Council into a spectacular U-turn this week.

:40:50.:40:55.

Martha Payne was briefly banned from posting snaps of her school

:40:55.:40:59.

dinners by a goal and Bute Council. Widely regarded as heavy handed,

:40:59.:41:02.

little did they realise the global support this nine-year-old would

:41:03.:41:07.

receive. As the story served up the perfect

:41:07.:41:12.

tasty treat for journalists around the world. A little girl from her

:41:12.:41:15.

health was the third most talked- about subject on global Twitter.

:41:15.:41:19.

Martha's meals had already attracted attention but this

:41:19.:41:24.

newspaper article was too much for Argyll and Bute Council. It was

:41:24.:41:29.

banned. It was disappointing because I know how much more song

:41:29.:41:36.

was enjoying it. It was a shame that it happened so suddenly

:41:36.:41:42.

through no fault of our own. Due in the course of the day, celebrity

:41:42.:41:47.

chefs expect him and social media flexed its new-found muscles.

:41:47.:41:52.

Politicians also stepped in. There was a change of heart. I would

:41:52.:41:57.

encourage the child to continue doing what she is doing. To be fair

:41:57.:42:03.

to the child, she has rated Argyll and Bute school meals 10 out of 10.

:42:03.:42:07.

20 years ago, a child banned from carrying out her own project would

:42:08.:42:12.

not have merited a mention in the local paper. It touched a nerve.

:42:12.:42:16.

There was concern for the council was being heavy-handed. As the

:42:16.:42:22.

story flashed around the world, Twitter users decided it was an

:42:22.:42:27.

injustice and piled the pressure on. The social media element comes on

:42:27.:42:32.

and it does not get left on one website. It course round and

:42:32.:42:37.

everyone is adding their feedback, their opinions and the council have

:42:37.:42:43.

seen that everyone was talking about it. Without having a thought-

:42:43.:42:48.

out plan, we have made a mess of it. Quirky stories have also attracted

:42:48.:42:53.

public attention. Now the rise of alternative publishing means people

:42:53.:42:57.

power can challenge judicial authorities in ways that it could

:42:57.:43:02.

never have been imagined. Just before we came on air, I spoke

:43:02.:43:12.
:43:12.:43:16.

to a councillor. It was a very bad experience. We got it wrong at the

:43:16.:43:23.

start. I am happy to admit that. I hoped we have rectified that.

:43:23.:43:30.

do you think it had such an air? always hits a nerve regarding

:43:30.:43:38.

school dinners. I fully appreciate that. I hoped we can rectify this

:43:38.:43:44.

as soon as possible. Do you appreciate how this taps into the

:43:44.:43:50.

frustrations a lot of parents have with councils such as or more

:43:50.:43:56.

zealous child protection. --? fully understand the concern of

:43:56.:44:04.

parents. Frustration is something we must work together with to try

:44:04.:44:09.

to sort out. Sometimes common sense flies out the window, but hopefully,

:44:09.:44:17.

common sense will prevail. Their two sides to this story. A lot of

:44:17.:44:23.

people supported the council's position. That is understandable as

:44:23.:44:33.

well. We are 100 % behind what the child is doing. As you said, there

:44:33.:44:37.

is another side to the story. We have spoken to the dinner staff for

:44:37.:44:47.
:44:47.:44:51.

more than two weeks now. We had a meeting set up with Mr Payne. In my

:44:51.:44:56.

opinion, the dinner ladies have been wrongly caught in the middle

:44:56.:45:06.
:45:06.:45:08.

of this whole fiasco. There is no blame whatsoever on them. It has

:45:08.:45:11.

been an upsetting time for the council. What made you change your

:45:11.:45:21.
:45:21.:45:21.

mind. --? The only thing that made us change our mind was that we got

:45:21.:45:25.

it wrong and decided to readdress that as soon as possible. There is

:45:25.:45:29.

nothing wrong with admitting you are wrong. We're doing our very

:45:29.:45:39.
:45:39.:45:48.

best to rectify it. What was the Michael Russell is the hour MSP. I

:45:48.:45:55.

have been in constant contact with him on this. After the second press

:45:55.:46:01.

release went out for the council he telephoned me just to have a

:46:01.:46:04.

conversation regarding that. you speak to Michael Russell

:46:05.:46:11.

yourself? I spoke with them later on in the afternoon. It was not 10

:46:11.:46:17.

who made you change your mind and the council's mind? Definitely not.

:46:17.:46:24.

That would never happen. He and I have an understanding. He is the

:46:24.:46:28.

elected leader of Argyll & Bute Council. Irrespective of which

:46:28.:46:33.

party are in power in Hollywood, he would continue to work with whoever

:46:33.:46:39.

holds power in Holyrood. We will continue to do that. What lessons

:46:39.:46:44.

can be learned from this? We have seen an onslaught from social media.

:46:44.:46:51.

It seems like your council might have been living in the dark Ages?

:46:51.:46:58.

I agree with you 100%. We will be smartening up on social media. You

:46:58.:47:02.

learn from your mistakes. The first thing to do is admit we have made a

:47:02.:47:08.

mistake. We will learn from this and move on from this. The longer

:47:08.:47:17.

we try to attach blame to this day later we will solve the problem.

:47:17.:47:24.

Are you going to apologise? I would certainly apologise to the girl

:47:24.:47:28.

effect has caused her any angst whatsoever. I will be meeting her

:47:28.:47:37.

father on Thursday to see if we can find a way forward. We have met

:47:37.:47:41.

with the catering staff and teachers from the school and agreed

:47:41.:47:49.

a way forward. Unfortunately this blew up right in the middle of a

:47:49.:47:55.

these meeting. What can a council do to avoid a PR disaster like

:47:55.:48:00.

this? It is hard to comment. We have only been the council's

:48:00.:48:10.
:48:10.:48:15.

communications team since the 22nd. -- May 22nd. Now the news. Good

:48:15.:48:21.

afternoon. The UK Government is planning to announce a 1 billion

:48:21.:48:25.

pound contract with Rolls-Royce for it nuclear submarines. It is the

:48:25.:48:29.

strongest signal yet that there will be a replacement for Trident

:48:29.:48:34.

despite the objections from the Liberal Democrats and the Scottish

:48:34.:48:40.

Government. The fleet which carries the nuclear deterrent is based at

:48:40.:48:45.

Faslane on the Clyde. Today the UK Defence Secretary gave the clearest

:48:45.:48:52.

sign yet that Trident will be replaced. We will be announcing a

:48:52.:48:57.

commitment to the major refurbishment of the Rolls-Royce

:48:57.:49:02.

plant at Derby which builds these reactors. Not just for the nuclear

:49:02.:49:10.

deterrent submarines but also for an hour attack class. If Scotland

:49:10.:49:14.

becomes independent the SNP would want a nuclear free Scotland with

:49:14.:49:19.

Trident out. The party also believes spending billions

:49:19.:49:24.

replacing trident is wrong. This is not about jobs but about the

:49:24.:49:29.

obscenity of spending �100 billion on a weapons system that is no

:49:29.:49:34.

longer required and is morally unjustified. The final decision

:49:34.:49:41.

will not come until 2016 after the next UK General Election and after

:49:41.:49:46.

the UK independence referendum. number of people convicted of

:49:46.:49:49.

drink-driving in Scotland has fallen by one-third over the past

:49:49.:49:54.

five years. The number of people convicted of being over the limit

:49:54.:50:03.

has dropped to just 5348 last year. Now the weather forecast. Good

:50:03.:50:09.

afternoon. It is a big improvement as far as the weather is concerned

:50:09.:50:13.

for this afternoon. A lot of dry weather across the country. There

:50:13.:50:18.

will be some showers in the north- east but it should brighten up here

:50:18.:50:22.

during this evening. There will be some sunshine across western

:50:22.:50:27.

Scotland extending in the land during the afternoon. That is all

:50:27.:50:37.
:50:37.:50:38.

for now. This week, official figures showed that marriages are

:50:38.:50:45.

on the rise but we are still awaiting the result of Holyrood's

:50:45.:50:52.

consultation on the same sex and marriage. Our reporter has been

:50:52.:50:56.

looking at why equal marriage proposals have become such a big

:50:56.:51:03.

issue in Scotland. Scotland's first civil partnership in 2005 attracted

:51:03.:51:08.

a crowd of press and television crews. The SNP Government is now

:51:08.:51:14.

considering a change to law to allow gay marriages in churches.

:51:14.:51:24.

Some oppose this. Some suspect that there was a loss in parliament

:51:24.:51:30.

recently because of this issue. The SNP are worried this might fracture

:51:30.:51:37.

their coalition for a yes. There has been pressure at Holyrood from

:51:37.:51:44.

religious organisations and equal rights campaigners. I think the

:51:44.:51:49.

majority of SNP's are in favour of equal marriage. That is what the

:51:49.:51:55.

opinion polls say and what I find when I am out and about. But there

:51:55.:52:00.

is still a strong voice in the parliament saying that no person or

:52:00.:52:05.

organisation should be forced to be involved or to approve of same-sex

:52:05.:52:11.

marriage. There must be protection for the churches and others who do

:52:11.:52:18.

not agree with this. They might believe that sex between two people

:52:18.:52:22.

of the same gender is wrong and that is a belief that must be

:52:22.:52:29.

protected. Legislation is now being considered by countries across

:52:29.:52:34.

Europe. In Westminster David Cameron has backed plans to allow

:52:34.:52:41.

same-sex couples in England and Wales to marry. If you want to look

:52:41.:52:48.

at human rights Paris in years, as Scotland may want to do as the move

:52:48.:52:55.

towards a referendum. Of those asked in a poll were their same-sex

:52:55.:53:04.

couples should have a right to get married 64 % agree. 26 % disagree.

:53:04.:53:08.

On whether religious organisations should have the right to decide

:53:08.:53:17.

whether or not to conduct same-sex marriages 68 % agree and 61 -- 21 %

:53:17.:53:26.

disagree. The results of a same-sex marriage consultation will be

:53:26.:53:36.
:53:36.:53:41.

published later this month. But now I am joined in the studio by two

:53:41.:53:49.

men. You're poll said that people agree with same-sex marriage, but

:53:49.:53:56.

it would, wouldn't it? Increasing majorities around the world say

:53:56.:54:03.

they support same-sex marriages. A majority of MSPs signed our equal

:54:03.:54:07.

marriage pledge. What we are seeing to the Scottish Government is

:54:07.:54:10.

listen to the public can be parliament, you have got the green

:54:10.:54:16.

light now to go ahead with legislation. Does this show that

:54:16.:54:20.

the churches are out of touch with what the public are thinking?

:54:20.:54:27.

think what the poll tells us very much is that it would show that. It

:54:27.:54:32.

started with a very leading question and when you start with a

:54:32.:54:36.

leading question you get a misleading answer. It is always a

:54:36.:54:41.

good idea to avoid asking a direct question seeing should someone had

:54:41.:54:46.

the right to something? The public in general are very weary to

:54:46.:54:51.

suggest that someone should not have a right. You have

:54:51.:54:58.

automatically distorted this result. The poll that matters is the three-

:54:58.:55:02.

month long consultation which took place at the end of last year in

:55:02.:55:07.

which the vast majority said marriage should not be redefined.

:55:07.:55:12.

We are hearing there is a lot in favour of keeping marriage as it is.

:55:12.:55:16.

What are you ready lines in this? We know what you're ideal would be

:55:16.:55:22.

but looking at the David Cameron option of same-sex marriage but not

:55:22.:55:27.

in church, we do agree with that? do not think so. We agree with

:55:27.:55:32.

religious freedom. Those bodies which do not want to conduct same-

:55:32.:55:37.

sex marriage should not have to but those bodies that do want to should

:55:37.:55:43.

be allowed to and I think most people would agree with that.

:55:43.:55:48.

about diesel option as we almost have in Europe and on the Continent,

:55:48.:55:55.

would you agree with that? current legislative framework,

:55:55.:56:01.

whether in Scotland, Britain, or Europe, it does not allow us to do

:56:01.:56:07.

that. Could certain religions the observe one speed on the motorway

:56:07.:56:13.

while other religions have to observe a different speed? That

:56:13.:56:20.

cannot happen. We are being offered a blank cheque that cannot be

:56:20.:56:25.

cashed and it is back to the issue of equality legislation. It has to

:56:25.:56:31.

have a blanket impact. This is a key point. We had a UK ministers

:56:31.:56:36.

seeing in England that perhaps the churches cannot be protected. You

:56:36.:56:40.

might make promises about this but they could be hollow promises

:56:40.:56:44.

because human rights legislation will not allow judges to be forced

:56:44.:56:49.

to carry out same-sex marriages. Europe we have had same-sex

:56:49.:56:55.

marriage for over a decade now. In that entire time there has never

:56:55.:56:58.

been one judgment by the European Court of human rights or any

:56:58.:57:05.

domestic court that has encouraged let alone required that theme --

:57:05.:57:08.

the groups conduct same-sex marriages. Unfortunately that is

:57:08.:57:12.

not true. Churches in Denmark have been open to challenge and been

:57:12.:57:18.

compelled to go ahead with same-sex marriages when they wanted not to.

:57:18.:57:23.

Been matter is what happens in Scotland. It has been made

:57:23.:57:31.

abundantly clear that these protections and exclusions cannot

:57:31.:57:36.

be delivered. We will be in the same position as we were when we

:57:36.:57:41.

were told that Catholic Church is adoption agencies would be

:57:41.:57:43.

protected and the Scottish Government could not follow through

:57:43.:57:49.

on that. Without any compromise from either side you cannot meet

:57:49.:57:55.

have we? It is not for you just about protecting traditional

:57:55.:58:01.

marriage. If I am right in seeing you actually opposed all same-sex

:58:02.:58:06.

relationships and you do not want to see any legislation that

:58:06.:58:12.

facilitates same-sex relationships which the Church thinks our protest.

:58:12.:58:17.

The law does not allow for the new legislation to apply to some and

:58:17.:58:22.

not to others. What you would prefer to see his compulsion and

:58:22.:58:26.

then the reality that is what would happen. You would want teachers to

:58:26.:58:31.

be compelled to teach children that same-sex relationships are valid

:58:31.:58:36.

and should be prized, whether or not they believe in it. You would

:58:36.:58:42.

criminalise people who did not agree with you. The reassurances

:58:42.:58:52.

are not holding much sway. European Convention on human rights

:58:52.:58:59.

protects your right not to conduct same-sex marriages. Of course there

:58:59.:59:06.

will always be a minority that a pause black civil rights movements,

:59:06.:59:10.

votes for women, in time people will look back on this and think it

:59:10.:59:18.

is wrong. Same-sex marriage is not a human right. To equate it with

:59:18.:59:24.

sexism or racism is completely wrong. It is not that. We have seen

:59:24.:59:29.

advances made on gender equality and racial equality, is it not be

:59:29.:59:34.

seen? It is not the same, it is not right, we have even seen a European

:59:34.:59:39.

Court decision that says it is not the same. They need to stop being

:59:40.:59:43.

Andrew Neil and Isabel Fraser with the latest political news, interviews and debate. Andrew is joined by Philip Hammond, the defence secretary to discuss troop numbers, changes to the armed forces and the crisis in Syria. There is also a look ahead to what happens after the Greek elections, how the markets might react and what it will mean for the UK economy.

And the regular panel of journalists look back over the week's politics and in particular the Leveson inquiry.


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