15/07/2012 Sunday Politics Scotland


15/07/2012

Andrew Neil and Isabel Fraser with the latest political news and debate, including interviews with Liberal Democrat minister Jeremy Browne and shadow home secretary Yvette Cooper.


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Transcript


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Afternoon, folks. Welcome to the Sunday Politics.

:00:39.:00:42.

An epic spat in the Commons - with Tories queueing up to strangle Nick

:00:42.:00:47.

Clegg's plans to reform the Lords. This morning, the Prime Minister

:00:47.:00:49.

has appealed to backbenchers and coalition partners alike NOT to

:00:49.:00:56.

descend into "division and navel gazing". That's our top story.

:00:56.:01:00.

And an Olympic-size fiasco over security for the Games. So who's

:01:00.:01:03.

for the high jump? The Shadow Home Secretary, Yvette Cooper, is this

:01:03.:01:12.

week's Sunday Interview. In Scotland:

:01:12.:01:19.

The battle for control of the Crown Estate in Scotland continues.

:01:19.:01:22.

was the opportunity to do the right thing and devolve something that

:01:22.:01:32.
:01:32.:01:39.

should have been devolved in 1999. The bottled it. It is outrageous.

:01:39.:01:49.
:01:49.:01:49.

Apology for the loss of subtitles for 1528 seconds

:01:49.:27:17.

All that coming up. Here is the Some of the things... Ken Clarke

:27:17.:27:23.

wanted to end up what substantial weight reduced rate sentences. I do

:27:24.:27:28.

not think that is the right thing to do. I think that is getting the

:27:28.:27:32.

balance wrong. There are other areas where you want to prevent

:27:32.:27:36.

reoffending but I think the Home Secretary is taking a huge risk by

:27:36.:27:40.

cutting police officers. I think it is too simplistic to talk the way

:27:40.:27:48.

that you want to. I'm interested in what works. G 4 s, it is one of

:27:48.:27:55.

those periodic nightmares for the Home Office. Would the Home

:27:55.:28:00.

Secretary ever-higher G four S again? They do look a complete a

:28:00.:28:03.

share were at the moment. I think it is shocking what they have done.

:28:03.:28:08.

I think you need to have a lot of scepticism about their ability to

:28:08.:28:12.

deliver the contract. It is not just about them though, everybody

:28:12.:28:18.

is working towards the Olympics. It is not just about them letting the

:28:18.:28:24.

country down, why did the Home Office not know what was happening?

:28:24.:28:30.

And wait for the last minute. Exactly. It is utter incompetence.

:28:30.:28:35.

But it was the Labour Government that make you porous retch. Gabble

:28:35.:28:41.

whole list of contacts that you gave them. You give them over a

:28:41.:28:48.

million pounds a year. You make them rich. Would you ever employ

:28:48.:28:55.

them again? Public and private partnerships can be effective. He

:28:55.:29:01.

would not expect me to set them for every individual contact. --

:29:01.:29:09.

contract. The Government had been pushing the police forces into the

:29:09.:29:14.

contracts. I did not want anyone to do that. You should not be

:29:14.:29:20.

contracting out policing. I'm sorry to rush you. I want to move on to

:29:20.:29:24.

Lords reform. Just briefly though, at the Home Secretary does have a

:29:24.:29:27.

serious questions to answer. She has not yet explained whether she

:29:27.:29:32.

is on top of what is happening. That is in terms of the number of

:29:32.:29:37.

staff and volunteers. How could they not know? It looks like they

:29:37.:29:41.

were advised and not autumn. If the Home Secretary was here for what

:29:41.:29:46.

you asked them now. Is she in control of it now? Derek now know

:29:46.:29:50.

that there will not be any additional police needed? And then

:29:50.:29:55.

secondly, how could she not have known as late as Monday of last

:29:55.:30:00.

week she said that she was confident. Final question on Lords

:30:00.:30:06.

reform. Labour says that it is in favour of an elected chamber. Every

:30:06.:30:11.

constitutional change put forward by their at last Government needed

:30:11.:30:21.
:30:21.:30:24.

a programmed timetable. By do not It would have allowed the

:30:24.:30:26.

Government to force bits of the Bill through that would have been

:30:26.:30:36.
:30:36.:30:37.

amended. UK two days to the London mayor, the Human Rights Act, you

:30:37.:30:47.
:30:47.:30:48.

get that in 4.5 days. Before these timetables were brought in, we

:30:48.:30:51.

managed to get legislation through, it requires the government to speak

:30:51.:30:56.

to us about each stage of the bill. We will work through them to do

:30:56.:31:01.

that. We will make sure this gets through Parliament. It needs to be

:31:01.:31:11.
:31:11.:31:29.

amended. That's why we had to say The afternoon. Welcome to Sunday

:31:29.:31:39.

Politics. Coming up, a welcome to the programme. The quango, and fear

:31:39.:31:43.

and loathing in the Scottish arts community. I'm here at the Lyceum

:31:44.:31:46.

theatre where there are concerns about whether the curtain will rise

:31:46.:31:51.

to a brighter future. As the Scottish Parliament takes some

:31:51.:32:01.
:32:01.:32:02.

holidays, we take a look at the Who should control Scotland's

:32:02.:32:06.

seabed? There has been growing pressure for rights to be done all

:32:06.:32:10.

to Scotland and local communities. Instead, the UK Government has

:32:10.:32:15.

decided they should remain with the Crown Estate. The news was greeted

:32:15.:32:23.

with dismay by many in the coastal communities of Scotland. The

:32:23.:32:26.

community or land in this estate on the island of Lewis, but they do

:32:26.:32:30.

not control the sea. As the potential for harnessing marine

:32:30.:32:35.

energy becomes a reality, people on the coast what to reap the benefits.

:32:35.:32:40.

Having previously bought the estate, we believe these revenues ought to

:32:40.:32:44.

be used for the benefit of the people living on the estate. We

:32:44.:32:51.

could put them to good use for things that are important to us,

:32:51.:32:58.

such as social housing or fuel poverty. Control rests with the

:32:58.:33:03.

Crown Estate, with revenue going direct to the UK Treasury. It was

:33:03.:33:07.

fouled things were changed that about to change after a strongly

:33:07.:33:11.

critical report said power should be devolved to local communities.

:33:11.:33:14.

The UK Government was not this -- not persuaded and gave away strips

:33:14.:33:21.

of land below Edinburgh Castle. There was every reason to expect

:33:21.:33:25.

the Government would respond more positively, given that the Liberal

:33:25.:33:29.

Democrats in the Highlands have been arguing for this for years.

:33:29.:33:35.

There was the opportunity to do the right thing. They could evolve

:33:35.:33:38.

something that should have been devolved in 1999 and they have

:33:38.:33:45.

bottled it. It is quite outrageous. Why didn't they go further? I think

:33:45.:33:51.

there are two aspects, the Treasury does not want to give up control,

:33:51.:33:57.

the potential for renewables is big, it is power. The second is

:33:57.:34:00.

political, I suspect the government did not want to give the SNP

:34:00.:34:08.

something they wanted. It is bad timing. The Scottish Government had

:34:08.:34:11.

described the decision as a missed opportunity but the Crown Estate

:34:11.:34:13.

says it plays an important strategic role when it comes to

:34:14.:34:18.

offshore renewables in Scotland. The British Government has looked

:34:18.:34:22.

at the entirety of renewable energy around the United Kingdom and

:34:22.:34:25.

considered that the Crown Estate, with its very collaborative role

:34:25.:34:31.

through industry, the supply chain, and both governments in Westminster

:34:31.:34:40.

and here, we are best placed to collaborate that activity. At the

:34:40.:34:44.

moment, revenue from the Crown Estate accounts for about �13

:34:44.:34:48.

million, but here in Orkney, seen as the front line in tidal energy

:34:48.:34:53.

research, they are convinced it could be much greater. That is why

:34:53.:34:57.

despite assurances of more local involvement they are deeply

:34:57.:35:03.

disappointed. They were hoping for an 80% share of all revenue.

:35:03.:35:10.

remains to be seen whether it will go far enough. We are trying to

:35:10.:35:15.

drive economic development. We feel if the Revenue had been devolved

:35:15.:35:20.

here, we could have managed the development locally, make sure it

:35:20.:35:24.

was unsustainably and ensure that there was going to be a thriving

:35:25.:35:30.

economy or young people to grow into. Does the story end here?

:35:30.:35:36.

Campaigners hope not. They plan to meet with the Scottish Affairs

:35:36.:35:41.

Committee soon. With me in the studio, Labour MP Ian Davidson, who

:35:41.:35:44.

chairs the Scottish Affairs Committee, and also from that

:35:44.:35:49.

committee, Alan Reid. In our Inverness studio, Dr Michael Foxley,

:35:49.:35:53.

until recently, the leader of Highland Council and a long-time

:35:53.:35:57.

campaigner on this issue. We did ask for a Scottish government

:35:57.:36:00.

minister to be part of this discussion but none was available.

:36:00.:36:04.

Ian Davidson, if we look at the findings from your committee, you

:36:04.:36:08.

have said that the Crown Estate has a fundamental misunderstanding of

:36:08.:36:11.

the needs and interests of the local communities, little regards

:36:11.:36:15.

for those needs and interests, other than where it serves business

:36:15.:36:19.

interest. At worst, it behaves as an absentee landlord or tax

:36:19.:36:25.

collector. What effect does that have? It effectively means that the

:36:25.:36:28.

local communities are completely alienated from what is going on

:36:28.:36:33.

immediately adjacent to them. It means the Crown Estate act like any

:36:33.:36:39.

other private sector landlord, takes no account of what is going

:36:39.:36:45.

on, the needs and aspirations of local people. We produced a radical

:36:45.:36:54.

report. The vast majority of support from people we met in the

:36:54.:36:59.

Highlands and Islands, we are very disappointed that the government

:36:59.:37:02.

has swept aside. The difficulty is that the Treasury doesn't want to

:37:02.:37:05.

let go of anything that generates money and I think that is

:37:05.:37:11.

regrettable and we will come to think again. Alan Reid, if the

:37:11.:37:15.

coalition government were to sit down together and say, let's come

:37:15.:37:23.

up with a plan, one that will discredit and infuriate what is

:37:23.:37:26.

left of the Liberal Democrat based in the Highlands, they couldn't

:37:26.:37:30.

have come up with anything better. How can a Liberal Democrats'

:37:30.:37:35.

Scottish Secretary justify this? Let's look at the positive things,

:37:35.:37:39.

they set up the coastal communities fund, which means the revenues

:37:39.:37:43.

generated by the marine park of the Crown Estate is spent in Scotland,

:37:43.:37:49.

and it is ring-fenced so that race in the Highlands and Islands goes

:37:49.:37:55.

back to the communities in the Highlands and Islands, so have the

:37:55.:38:00.

Revenue -- 50% of the revenue comes back in Ireland and Islands. I wish

:38:00.:38:07.

it was 100%, but that is a start. Why isn't it? Don't you have any

:38:07.:38:11.

concern that what has been handed over here, including very minimal

:38:11.:38:18.

amounts, talking estate amounts, coming in from shellfish farming,

:38:18.:38:23.

that is almost more work insulting? I am disappointed the Government

:38:23.:38:28.

has not gone the whole 100%. But in addition to the 50% of the revenue

:38:28.:38:32.

coming back, the Government is also telling the Crown Estate to set up

:38:32.:38:38.

local management agreements. These have already been set up in Portree.

:38:38.:38:43.

These will give local communities the power to take the initiative in

:38:43.:38:47.

managing the coastline. Why is Michael Moore as saying this has to

:38:47.:38:51.

remain in UK control? I'm convinced that this was a Liberal Democrat

:38:51.:38:54.

government we would have implemented the committee report.

:38:54.:38:57.

It's a coalition government, there needs to be agreement between us

:38:57.:39:01.

and the Conservatives. As Liberal Democrats, we can achieve

:39:01.:39:06.

everything we want, but we need to compromise. -- we cannot achieve. I

:39:06.:39:13.

think 50% is a good start. Michael Foxley, you are respected

:39:13.:39:15.

Liberal Democrat councillor, you have been at forefront, campaigning

:39:15.:39:23.

on this issue for many years. Are you satisfied with this response?

:39:23.:39:28.

Good afternoon, I am relying on people like Alan Reid and Alistair

:39:28.:39:33.

Carmichael to continue the campaign, because it will certainly continue,

:39:33.:39:37.

the present situation is completely unacceptable, the response from the

:39:37.:39:41.

UK Government is unacceptable, and this is not just about the benefits

:39:41.:39:44.

that need to fall from things like marine renewables, the key issue is

:39:44.:39:49.

the management and local communities and local authorities,

:39:49.:39:52.

agencies in the Highlands and Islands, need to be in charge of

:39:52.:39:59.

that management, the benefits. strongly do you think local

:39:59.:40:07.

communities feel about this? -- how strongly? If you are living on an

:40:07.:40:12.

island and tried to develop a hard work, if someone tries to takeover

:40:12.:40:18.

the Marines from the least, it originally, 3040 years ago -- 30

:40:18.:40:23.

years ago, firemen arrived with no consultation, then you are very

:40:23.:40:30.

angry. What we are aware of is the potential of offshore renewables. I

:40:30.:40:34.

am delighted with the report led by Ian Davidson, with the support of

:40:34.:40:44.
:40:44.:40:45.

people like Alan Reid, they took the argument and accepted it, that

:40:45.:40:49.

is about local management. A few months ago I was in Orkney and it

:40:49.:40:52.

was clear from the companies in Orkney that they wanted to work

:40:52.:40:56.

with the local authorities, local communities, this report does not

:40:56.:41:02.

put that in place. Local management agreements referred to are at the

:41:02.:41:09.

very lowest level of tokenism, if it was all the partners, in the

:41:09.:41:15.

Highlands and Islands, that would be a serious step. The need to

:41:15.:41:19.

develop without the bureaucracy, the legal issues, the financial

:41:19.:41:26.

cost. It is a Scottish asset and the management needs to be devolved.

:41:26.:41:30.

The let me ask you something, but Dr Michael Foxley says he is

:41:30.:41:33.

delighted that the committee has taken this on and heard the voices,

:41:33.:41:39.

but it has not done them much good. Do you have a concern at this

:41:39.:41:44.

critical time, when the campaign are saying stick with the evolution,

:41:44.:41:50.

trust us, something like this come a long, you do not get more powers,

:41:50.:41:57.

how can people have confidence in that sort of undertaking? Of course

:41:57.:42:00.

I am disappointed that the government didn't implement the

:42:00.:42:04.

committee report in full, but we have made steps in the right

:42:04.:42:09.

direction. 50% of the revenue coming back to the Highlands, and I

:42:09.:42:11.

will continue to campaign for the committee report to be implemented

:42:12.:42:20.

in full. Let's become something that the Crown Estate have mention,

:42:20.:42:24.

that there is a strategic benefit if you are trying to get investors

:42:24.:42:28.

to keeping this in one level, one coherent package, so the argument

:42:28.:42:32.

would be too transparent to the Scottish Government in Holyrood so

:42:32.:42:36.

they could have an overview. That is not want the committee -- that

:42:36.:42:43.

is not what the committee wants. Is that true? Not entirely. This is

:42:43.:42:48.

quite complex. There are some issues where we had said we believe

:42:48.:42:52.

the Scottish Government should have a strategic overview, and that the

:42:52.:42:55.

expertise that the Crown Estate has built up should be retained, rather

:42:55.:42:59.

than being broken up, and the resources, but not all the

:42:59.:43:03.

resources. Let me be clear, we believe initially there is the

:43:03.:43:07.

benefit of the developments and they should go to the people at a

:43:07.:43:15.

decent, local authorities. -- the people next door. We had system

:43:15.:43:21.

where we would have localised decisions, in the hands of the

:43:21.:43:29.

people in the area, once it got wider. Once it got wider still, it

:43:29.:43:33.

was something that needed to be dealt with at a Scottish level.

:43:33.:43:36.

There are some issues that still need to be dealt with at the UK

:43:36.:43:41.

level, because they have UK-wide strategic responsibilities. We

:43:41.:43:44.

wanted to put them together in a way that localised as much as

:43:44.:43:49.

possible. This is not just about the Crown Estate, it is about the

:43:49.:43:53.

politics of the situation. For people like me, devolution was a

:43:53.:43:57.

way towards giving people more power where they lead.

:43:57.:43:59.

Decentralising and breaking up elements of the Crown Estate is

:43:59.:44:03.

about decentralising further, making sure that local people have

:44:03.:44:08.

local control, control over things that immediately affect them. It is

:44:08.:44:16.

part of that process. Is it your opinion that if there were Lib Dems

:44:16.:44:20.

with any sense of the political nuances in Scotland, they would

:44:20.:44:26.

have not made this choice? suppose you've got to be fair, it

:44:26.:44:31.

is always regrettable, but this is not the top of their agenda. They

:44:31.:44:38.

have taken at Treasury decision, driven by finance. We will now go

:44:38.:44:42.

and meet people in the Highlands and Islands and forced it up the

:44:43.:44:49.

political agenda. Dr Michael Foxley, presumably it is not about the

:44:49.:44:53.

amounts of revenue, although they will increase dramatically if there

:44:53.:44:57.

are renewables, it is the principle of what happens. What should happen

:44:57.:45:03.

next? Well, I think we all have to consider the report and the

:45:03.:45:07.

response of the UK Government, we have to meet with the Scottish

:45:07.:45:11.

Affairs Committee in September, and we have to redouble our efforts. It

:45:11.:45:16.

is in the company's interest that we develop renewable energy,

:45:16.:45:23.

working with the community. We need to ensure that the planning is

:45:23.:45:27.

right, the training is right, apprenticeships, at the jobs

:45:27.:45:37.
:45:37.:45:45.

As communities are about to be hit by funding cuts. Scores of

:45:45.:45:49.

organisations are left worried about their future. Mainly theatre

:45:49.:45:53.

companies have been moved from regular funding to project funding

:45:53.:45:57.

which means they have to apply for individual grants. We have been

:45:57.:46:02.

hearing about the concerns of artists who are concerned that the

:46:02.:46:07.

curtains are coming down on their future.

:46:07.:46:12.

These large scale wall-hangings had been funded through a greater

:46:12.:46:18.

Scotland grant. But Scotland's arts agency is changing the way it funds

:46:18.:46:22.

small and medium scale arts organisations. They will see their

:46:22.:46:26.

regular funding come to an end next year when they have to apply for

:46:26.:46:32.

funding and an individual project basis. This woman, Fiona, is unsure

:46:32.:46:38.

of how it will affect her. There is less and less money out there so it

:46:38.:46:43.

will have an effect on the ability to be experimental. To be able to

:46:43.:46:47.

explore things that you do not know where they're going to teach you.

:46:47.:46:52.

We do not know what the outcome will be. Creative Scotland say the

:46:52.:46:56.

changes are due to at �2 million drop in their funding. Although

:46:56.:47:00.

they do have access to new lottery money it is governed by strict

:47:00.:47:04.

rules which means it is only available for projects and not long

:47:04.:47:12.

term funding. Nearly 50 theatres -- theatre company's will lose their

:47:12.:47:17.

funding and will have to apply in a project by project basis. Many

:47:17.:47:21.

organisations are worried and feel that the changes will make them

:47:21.:47:26.

financially unstable and compromise their work. As artistic director of

:47:26.:47:30.

the Lyceum Theatre in Edinburgh, Mark Thomson speaks for many of the

:47:30.:47:37.

theatre companies. That's a duty, and we're only talking about two

:47:37.:47:41.

years security, can be critical to allowing artists to continue to

:47:41.:47:47.

work and create in Scotland. If it becomes impoverished, if that

:47:47.:47:52.

landscape becomes more unsteady and less secure or with less of that

:47:52.:47:57.

ability then there is a danger that some of her guests artists might

:47:57.:48:03.

leave. This is there culture freesheet newspaper created by

:48:03.:48:08.

artists. Its co-editor fears that its funding could be in jeopardy

:48:08.:48:15.

because of its non commercial business model and critical work.

:48:15.:48:17.

If you are seeing some uncritical about cultural policy you become

:48:17.:48:22.

more and more or unpopular in this sort of environment. It is

:48:22.:48:27.

censorship by the back door, I think. You have a culture as an

:48:27.:48:31.

employment of policy and then it changes and sets the tone for what

:48:31.:48:38.

people write about us and what people think is worthy to produce.

:48:38.:48:42.

Creative Scotland has delayed its plans for six months and has

:48:42.:48:45.

apologised to arts are organisations for or causing

:48:45.:48:52.

anxiety. But its criticism and the media remains for many of our top

:48:52.:48:58.

artists. A perception is that this body is only two years old Bailey

:48:58.:49:02.

and yet it is on a par or with the organisation, the old Scottish Arts

:49:02.:49:07.

Council, that more than a decade ago was called in front of

:49:07.:49:11.

Westminster to at be asked why it was not communicating properly.

:49:11.:49:14.

There's a feeling that we have not progressed as far as we can and

:49:14.:49:18.

that is something that we have to address. Critics fear that the

:49:18.:49:22.

funding shake-up could result in the death of many other theatre

:49:22.:49:30.

companies. They say the need funding stability to survive.

:49:30.:49:36.

Joining me is the chief executive of Creative Scotland, Andrew Dixon

:49:36.:49:40.

and the Adam a columnist to Joyce McMillan. Andrew, do you accept

:49:40.:49:42.

this has caused a great deal of anxiety? There are worthwhile

:49:42.:49:45.

companies saying that they have no idea what their future is going to

:49:45.:49:50.

be. The first thing to say is that Creative Scotland is a new agency,

:49:50.:49:53.

it has inherited a number of commitments and we want see on are

:49:54.:49:56.

those commitments that we have done and there is not a single

:49:56.:50:01.

organisation that has been cut. Scotland is an incredibly creative

:50:01.:50:06.

place and we have some fantastic music organisations and the tears

:50:06.:50:10.

and the to companies and festivals. Our role is to make sure that the

:50:10.:50:15.

entire population of Scotland gets the benefit of that. These changes

:50:15.:50:18.

are to try to support our organisations and a time what we do

:50:18.:50:23.

have a slight reduction in Arab for money from Government but we do

:50:23.:50:27.

also have additional money from the Government for at Edinburgh

:50:27.:50:32.

festivals and for capital funding and innovation funding from the

:50:32.:50:36.

Government. Where the growth in a lottery fund also. It is about

:50:36.:50:40.

trying to sustain those cultural organisations by moving them across

:50:40.:50:44.

into the lottery area where they can bet for programmes of work.

:50:44.:50:48.

Does this sound acceptable to you got as Mark I think the real issues

:50:49.:50:56.

with that. I think both the Creative Scotland and the Minister

:50:56.:50:59.

have been a great job of sustaining their overall level of arts funding

:50:59.:51:03.

in Scotland. That contrasts very positively to the situation in

:51:03.:51:07.

England. But in a way they have snatched defeat from the jaws of

:51:07.:51:12.

victory by it increasingly pursuing a model for the week Creative

:51:12.:51:18.

Scotland works that is in fact not very creative. The idea of a

:51:18.:51:21.

functional arts funding agency is that it allows artists to meet the

:51:21.:51:24.

change. The need to be inspirational and thinking about

:51:24.:51:32.

new ways of looking at Scotland and the world in which we love. The

:51:32.:51:38.

Arts agency's job is to respond to the agendas of artists. What is

:51:38.:51:42.

happening here is that by the way it is being managed it looks as

:51:42.:51:45.

though Creative Scotland is putting itself at the centre of things as a

:51:45.:51:50.

sort of strategic Agency which judges from project to project what

:51:50.:51:55.

artists should be doing. It tries to manoeuvre their agenda is

:51:55.:52:00.

towards policy goals and that is not the way to get good art. But as

:52:00.:52:04.

back-up account. You could become more interventionist than arts

:52:05.:52:08.

funding has been able to be in the past and that is not necessarily a

:52:08.:52:12.

good thing. Greater Scotland is going in different direction. We

:52:12.:52:18.

have doubled their funding took artists. Where artist residencies

:52:18.:52:23.

growing. Their residency hosts taking the decisions necessary.

:52:23.:52:27.

We're trying to get them to generate their own ideas and work

:52:27.:52:31.

but we are the national strategic body and we do about duty to

:52:31.:52:35.

deliver to people all over Scotland. Places that might not have

:52:35.:52:42.

professional theatre companies and other facilities. Short-term

:52:42.:52:46.

funding presumably brings its own problems in terms of their talent

:52:46.:52:51.

you retain and that unsure track down. Is there a concern that this

:52:51.:52:55.

might become rooted in something very secure like Edinburgh Festival

:52:55.:52:59.

and all the thing we can predict funding will go to and does not

:52:59.:53:06.

going to more imaginative projects? And Sharada would agree that it is

:53:06.:53:09.

the role of Creative Scotland to fund things that are unpredictable

:53:09.:53:13.

but the problem is how do you achieve that? I do not think you do

:53:13.:53:16.

that by imposing and business investments model on a function

:53:16.:53:21.

which is basically about supporting things that need Government support.

:53:22.:53:25.

The new Government support to see it them three not so that they have

:53:25.:53:30.

to follow certain agendas and appear certain geographical areas

:53:30.:53:34.

or whatever back agenda is. Imposing VAT on the arts will not

:53:34.:53:39.

get good work. I think the main goal of greater Scotland should be

:53:39.:53:44.

to listen to artists, assess which artists are making good work and

:53:44.:53:47.

dabbing Open and well understood ways of doing that and then giving

:53:47.:53:50.

the money to those that really have the creative energy and brilliance

:53:50.:53:55.

to do the job. And the Creative Scotland should focus its energy on

:53:55.:53:58.

that and less on inventing strategies and ideas and

:53:58.:54:01.

commissioning projects of its own and in trying to make artists

:54:01.:54:05.

follow them by the way it distributes the money. Do you

:54:05.:54:09.

accept that? We have learnt that we need to listen more or two artists

:54:09.:54:13.

in the cultural sector. But we do have a duty to the entire

:54:13.:54:16.

population of Scotland and we also have a duty to invest an artist and

:54:16.:54:20.

talent. Doing things like the Europe Creative Scotland and the

:54:20.:54:24.

programme for the Commonwealth Games provides an unprecedented

:54:24.:54:29.

opportunity for Scotland in terms of celebrating its cultural success.

:54:29.:54:33.

Readers will and is different, it is not just a cheque book. It is a

:54:33.:54:39.

body that is going to celebrate Scotland here and internationally.

:54:39.:54:43.

At what point does that become too politicised and your budget being

:54:43.:54:48.

too dependent on that. We have been criticised for doing

:54:48.:54:55.

international work, but it is important that our theatres or

:54:55.:54:57.

internationally. We have been criticised for not being critical

:54:57.:55:01.

of the Government, but the Government has given as good

:55:01.:55:05.

supporting a up initial two years. We've been criticised perhaps

:55:05.:55:08.

justifiably or not celebrating the role of artists and I think artists

:55:09.:55:13.

are central to our work and deliver amazing things in Scotland. We have

:55:13.:55:20.

many great agencies like the Transmission Gallery who are doing

:55:20.:55:28.

fantastic work. There are going to be here. A we have 30 seconds. Many

:55:28.:55:32.

of those organisations feel threatened and destabilised and

:55:32.:55:36.

insulted by the business language being used to them as if they do

:55:36.:55:39.

not understand creative entrepreneurship and is that they

:55:39.:55:41.

do not understand how to keep an organisation together with many

:55:41.:55:46.

sources of income. There's been a real failure of cultural or

:55:46.:55:49.

assonance between the sector and the council and it really has to

:55:49.:55:53.

change the language it's used and more than that, it changed its

:55:53.:55:57.

model of operation so that it really allows artists to lead and

:55:57.:56:01.

does not put itself at the centre of things. We're out of time that

:56:01.:56:05.

Thank you very much. In a moment we will be discussing

:56:05.:56:10.

the Week in Scottish politics but first it let's take hour week --

:56:10.:56:20.
:56:20.:56:22.

look back at a week in 60 seconds. UK government's plan to take their

:56:22.:56:32.

house of words into her up elected chamber had a backbench rebellion.

:56:32.:56:34.

Scottish dairy farmers demanded their power to fix the price of

:56:34.:56:37.

they're not saying that it is being driven down by retailers and

:56:37.:56:42.

processors. Average cost of production is in excess of 30 pence

:56:42.:56:46.

a litre of which is now talking about five per sit -- we are now at

:56:47.:56:53.

5p less than that. The average business is really struggling.

:56:53.:56:58.

Electoral commission said it would not look out independence

:56:58.:57:03.

referendum things that were bought by it those parties.

:57:03.:57:08.

The council brought an emergency meeting to discuss the Halls

:57:08.:57:13.

factory. Jobs could be lost. And the American billionaire Donald

:57:13.:57:21.

Trump opened his controversial new golf course in Aberdeenshire.

:57:21.:57:26.

So despite Holyrood being in recess this week of the question of the

:57:26.:57:35.

referendum still dominated the headlines.

:57:35.:57:38.

My guests this afternoon at the political commentator Hamish

:57:38.:57:42.

MacDonell and here in the studio madness God and the political

:57:42.:57:48.

editor of the Daily Record. If you to cast your eye back over the last

:57:48.:57:54.

year of political activity what we do think was the top story, Magnus?

:57:54.:57:58.

It has to be the referendum. From the start of the Year we had the

:57:58.:58:04.

Prime Minister at intervening right at the beginning of January. That

:58:04.:58:09.

it started at all. Alex Salmond responded very quickly with his

:58:09.:58:14.

timetable and then we had the wording of the question. Then we at

:58:14.:58:20.

the launch of their it Vs Scotland. Then we had better together. It has

:58:20.:58:23.

been a referendum roller-coaster and has sucked the life out of

:58:23.:58:31.

every other story. And on it goes. Hamish, what you think? I think

:58:31.:58:38.

that madness is exactly right. But we're going sec get another two-

:58:38.:58:42.

and- a-half years of that. There is a danger that the public will get a

:58:42.:58:46.

bit tired. We are only six months into a very long campaign that will

:58:46.:58:52.

last at least until October at 2014 and may go on for them on that. The

:58:52.:58:57.

big parties have to be careful that we do not go and get referendum

:58:57.:59:01.

city. What you think are the most important news stories other than

:59:01.:59:07.

that? Sitting in Holyrood it is easy to forget that we're in the

:59:07.:59:12.

middle of an economic crisis. Growth is painfully slow and the

:59:12.:59:16.

employment situation is poor. I know every quarter we argue about

:59:16.:59:19.

whether Scotland is doing well compared with the rest of the UK

:59:19.:59:26.

but actually we are just squabbling over fractions of 1%. There are

:59:26.:59:29.

nearly 100,000 young Scots out of work. There has been an alarming

:59:29.:59:34.

drift towards part-time employment as opposed to full-time employment

:59:34.:59:39.

the STUC say that there are something like half a million Scots

:59:39.:59:43.

under employed or unemployed. There is a huge problem there. It would

:59:43.:59:49.

be grossly unfair it to me that all at the door at a of the SNP, the

:59:49.:59:54.

SNP and Labour up both agree that it is George Osborne is the real

:59:54.:00:00.

cost of this with the austerity drive. But there are questions

:00:00.:00:03.

about how it these bosses from the SNP are in passing and whether they

:00:03.:00:09.

are helping especially in terms of colleges. As cuts demands we see

:00:09.:00:15.

that their only a quarter of the way through those go cuts. These

:00:15.:00:25.
:00:25.:00:30.

What about the renewables question? I think there is one issue that has

:00:30.:00:33.

been bubbling around in the background and it will continue to

:00:33.:00:39.

affect politics across the country. The SNP have said they won 100% of

:00:39.:00:43.

Scotland's electricity produced by renewables by 2020. That is a very

:00:43.:00:48.

ambitious target, most of which will come from wind power. As we

:00:48.:00:52.

have got closer to that timetable, people ask questions as to whether

:00:52.:00:59.

we are on the right lines, whether should week -- whether we should be

:00:59.:01:03.

waiting longer to see how tidal power develops, not putting all

:01:03.:01:11.

legs towards wind farms. As the SNP pushes towards this target of

:01:11.:01:15.

Twenty20, people will look at places like Denmark and say, is

:01:15.:01:23.

this really the right way to go? I think the SNP will need to answer

:01:23.:01:30.

some questions about this. Shortly we will be looking at what creeps

:01:30.:01:36.

up on the political horizon, but now the lunchtime news. Good

:01:36.:01:45.

afternoon, a Spanish fugitive linked to be Basque terrorists, has

:01:45.:01:50.

been arrested in Edinburgh. Benat Atorrasagasti Ordonez was arrested

:01:50.:01:54.

in Leith on Friday night. Spanish authorities requested his arrest

:01:54.:01:58.

and said he had been living in the capital for some time. He is

:01:58.:02:04.

expected to appear at Edinburgh Sheriff court tomorrow. The

:02:04.:02:07.

Scottish Government has revealed more than 26,000 responses were

:02:07.:02:11.

received during its consultation on the independence referendum. The

:02:11.:02:16.

total is 5,000 more than previously thought. Nicola Sturgeon said it

:02:16.:02:23.

showed that people wanted the terms and timing decided in Scotland. The

:02:23.:02:28.

UK Government said there was strong support for a single question. The

:02:28.:02:31.

leaders at the Scottish Open are beginning their final round.

:02:31.:02:36.

Francesco Molinari take a one-shot lead into the final round. Mark

:02:36.:02:41.

Warren, Martin Laird and Peter White furred are also in contention.

:02:42.:02:47.

White furred are also in contention. -- Whiteford. Bright spells and

:02:47.:02:50.

scattered showers this afternoon. The best spells are in the East,

:02:50.:02:55.

but that is also where we will see the heavy showers. Cloudier in the

:02:55.:02:59.

northern isles, and in the West mainland. There will be bits and

:02:59.:03:05.

pieces of showery rain. There will be a breeze in the central belt.

:03:05.:03:13.

be a breeze in the central belt. Next bulletin is at 7:50pm. Goodbye.

:03:13.:03:16.

It is the end of the political term, but if you cannot remember what has

:03:16.:03:26.
:03:26.:03:26.

been going on for the last six From the start of the year, one

:03:26.:03:34.

issue has been on the present, independence. Nobody escaped the

:03:34.:03:41.

question and many lined up to take the flak. The world is ready for us,

:03:41.:03:47.

and I know Scotland is ready. Thank you. Following the end of the

:03:47.:03:50.

consultation on same-sex marriage in September, the Scottish

:03:50.:03:53.

Government response was eagerly awaited but has not arrived.

:03:53.:03:57.

Meanwhile, campaigners lined up outside the parliament to gather

:03:57.:04:04.

support. The new party leaders have had time to settle into their roles,

:04:04.:04:13.

especially during first minister's questions. Big men, one not quite

:04:13.:04:17.

so big man. Some say the First Minister has been devious,

:04:17.:04:22.

conniving, double-dealing. Isn't he just covering up fact that are rich

:04:22.:04:32.

man has played him for a full again? -- fool. Tackling

:04:32.:04:37.

unemployment remains the priority whatever party you belong to, but

:04:37.:04:40.

despite apprenticeship schemes and free rail travel, redundancies

:04:40.:04:47.

continue. In the local elections, Labour held their nerve in Glasgow

:04:47.:04:51.

and the SNP claimed significant victories elsewhere. And the

:04:51.:04:57.

Liberal Democrats were beaten by Penguin in Edinburgh. After the

:04:57.:04:59.

celebrations, the Scottish Government confirmed that wants to

:04:59.:05:05.

set a minimum price of 50 pence per unit of alcohol. The Lockerbie bomb

:05:05.:05:09.

work died in Tripoli, but whether his conviction is sound remains

:05:09.:05:19.

contentious. The First Minister's appearance at the Leveson enquiry

:05:19.:05:24.

revealed the startling claim that his bank account was packed. I was

:05:24.:05:26.

informed by a former Observer journalist who gave me a fairly

:05:26.:05:30.

exact account of what was in my bank account. He was allowed to

:05:30.:05:35.

wrong-foot the Lord Justice. Thank you, and the same is so for the

:05:35.:05:40.

English Parliament, they can adopted. I like the term English

:05:40.:05:48.

Parliament, I approve of that. But it one of the things that

:05:48.:05:51.

politicians cannot control, the Scottish summer threatens

:05:51.:06:01.
:06:01.:06:14.

For Westminster perspective, we are joined by James Cusack of the

:06:14.:06:23.

Independent's newspaper. Thank you for joining in. What are the waves

:06:23.:06:31.

of Scottish politics that wash up at Westminster? This is bad news,

:06:31.:06:36.

Scotland's obsession with the referendum has not hit the UK media.

:06:36.:06:40.

That is not because there is no room left because of the Olympics,

:06:40.:06:48.

it just hasn't had resonance. There are maybe two reasons, one is a

:06:48.:06:53.

matter of Westminster are not being embarrassed, however much they try

:06:53.:06:57.

to order Westminster -- order Holyrood, that has not worked. A

:06:57.:07:01.

rather than get involved at this early stage, they are keeping their

:07:01.:07:05.

powder dry and will deal with it later. It is certainly not the

:07:05.:07:09.

obsession it is in the Scottish media. If we were to look forward

:07:09.:07:12.

to what will be waiting in the long grass for the various political

:07:12.:07:16.

parties in Holyrood when they come back, what do you think will be the

:07:16.:07:22.

key areas? What is most interesting is the narrative of Scottish

:07:22.:07:26.

politics has changed. We came into this year with the SNP being more

:07:26.:07:30.

powerful, they had one of huge majority in the last elections,

:07:30.:07:34.

Labour was on its knees, and then we have the local elections, where

:07:34.:07:39.

Labour changed the tone of Scottish politics, started fighting back,

:07:39.:07:42.

getting Councillors back, it didn't necessarily when the greatest

:07:42.:07:46.

number of councillors, but we saw them replied. A lot of that is down

:07:46.:07:50.

to the leader, she has done a good job, but since then opinion polls

:07:51.:07:55.

have suggested independence is not enjoying the support the SNP would

:07:55.:07:59.

like, and that is the tone and context we will see going into the

:07:59.:08:05.

next political year. We will see the SNP for the first time since

:08:05.:08:08.

that the election victory on the defensive, and the Unionist parties

:08:08.:08:14.

with a bit of a spring in their step. This next year will be more

:08:14.:08:18.

difficult for Alex Salmond and the 18 months have been. In relative

:08:18.:08:23.

terms, but in actual terms, Alex Salmond still has the nominally

:08:23.:08:31.

high approval ratings, and in terms of public recognition, so you may

:08:31.:08:35.

be saying they are coming back relatively, but realistically, how

:08:35.:08:40.

significant is that? I think it is very significant. Yes, he has very

:08:40.:08:44.

good approval ratings, but the focus for the next 2.5 years is

:08:44.:08:54.
:08:54.:08:54.

going to be on independence, and that is where there is a difference.

:08:54.:08:58.

There are people who do not like the idea of independence, and with

:08:58.:09:02.

the Pope has been shifted, almost to the exclusion of everything else,

:09:02.:09:10.

that difference will tell. -- with the attention shifting. If we don't

:09:10.:09:14.

do the referendum or anything obvious, will something under the

:09:14.:09:20.

radar emerge? The police merger is extremely controversial and has not

:09:20.:09:24.

been discussed. There are some real-world issues it would be

:09:24.:09:31.

unwise not to keep an eye on. It police forces will be merged into a

:09:31.:09:35.

single national police force, as we know of. It is a big undertaking

:09:35.:09:42.

and a tight timescale. There are issues of political control. We

:09:42.:09:45.

know from bitter experience that big undertakings like this don't

:09:45.:09:50.

always go smoothly according to plan, it throws up the issue of

:09:50.:09:54.

jobs, the unions are warning there could be 3,000 civilian workers

:09:54.:09:58.

laid off. The police authorities say the figure will be about a

:09:58.:10:05.

quarter of that. If there is the merest hint that the very powerful

:10:05.:10:09.

Chief Constable of Scotland is basing his policing priorities on

:10:09.:10:13.

political targets, that will be seized upon by critics who have

:10:13.:10:17.

said this merger, although money- saving, will bring politics and

:10:17.:10:23.

police to close together. We need to keep a close eye on how that

:10:23.:10:28.

happens. Same-sex marriage is another one. Again, Alex Salmond is

:10:28.:10:32.

facing a difficult decision there, because he knows there will be a

:10:32.:10:39.

big backlash from the Catholic Church, the church groups, and some

:10:39.:10:44.

within his own side. However, I think he will take a progressive

:10:44.:10:49.

view. We also at the curriculum for excellence. Children going back to

:10:49.:10:55.

school next month, learning for new national exams that are replacing

:10:55.:10:58.

standard grades our midst great worries in the teaching profession

:10:58.:11:08.
:11:08.:11:09.

that they are not adequately prepared. Mike Russell, it is fair

:11:09.:11:13.

to say, has averted the threat of strike action, but if this goes

:11:13.:11:22.

wrong, it will be a very big problem for the SNP. Have you heard

:11:22.:11:28.

of Donald Trump? I have heard of Donald Trump and his enterprises in

:11:28.:11:33.

Aberdeen. Tell me what you're going to say. We've had a lot of coverage

:11:33.:11:38.

of Donald Trump, he has been a controversial figure. I know you

:11:38.:11:42.

like Gulf, have edited a Gulf magazine, what do you think about

:11:42.:11:52.

some of the claims that have been made? -- golf. I would be very wary

:11:52.:11:55.

of his claim that his project has come to a halt because of the wind

:11:56.:12:03.

farm. That is on a massive scale, the market is no longer there.

:12:03.:12:12.

Crucially, he was recently told even if his Gulf course was going

:12:12.:12:20.

to be the greatest in the world, it would take 20 years to come onto

:12:20.:12:28.

competition were tough. -- rota. Many we have heard him limiting his

:12:28.:12:31.

marketing strategy, but I would distrust almost everything he says

:12:31.:12:37.

and I hope Alex Salmond does not get played again. Let's look at the

:12:37.:12:41.

Olympic security, that is developing today. People are

:12:41.:12:46.

talking about a Home Secretary, but if you look at the sequence of

:12:46.:12:55.

events, in December, Sebastian Coe, organising committee, goes to the

:12:55.:12:59.

security company and says we need 10,000 not 2000, why is none of the

:12:59.:13:09.
:13:09.:13:10.

state coming his way? -- stick. Frankly I find it astonishing we

:13:10.:13:15.

are at his position two weeks before the Games start. I find it

:13:15.:13:19.

astonishing that a Home Office would not have at least acted on a

:13:19.:13:24.

potential contract. If security was at the top of that agenda, they

:13:24.:13:29.

must have known how many security were there, where they trained, are

:13:29.:13:35.

all part of that contract, was it in place? I don't think we should

:13:35.:13:40.

be shifting the blame towards LOCOG too much, although I think a lesser

:13:40.:13:44.

question can be asked of Sebastian Coe. What frightens me is that if

:13:44.:13:48.

this is the level of preparation just on security, this is the stuff

:13:48.:13:58.
:13:58.:14:02.

we know at the top, underneath, there is a vast amount we do not

:14:02.:14:08.

know about. These games need to be run successfully and we cannot

:14:08.:14:12.

afford them to be derailed by plans that have been put in a drama. I

:14:12.:14:16.

Andrew Neil and Isabel Fraser with the latest political news, interviews and debate, including interviews with Liberal Democrat minister Jeremy Browne and shadow home secretary Yvette Cooper.


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