30/09/2012 Sunday Politics Scotland

Good morning and welcome to this Sunday politics. Does anyone it

really know what the leader of the Labour Party really stands for? The

biggest union boss wants to purge of the party of New Labour Blairite.

He wants to the Labour leader to support calls for a general strike.

Should he? Nick Clegg told the Lib-Dems are

they are now the third party of government, but can be really

clawed their way back into contention for the next election?

Will it Johann Lamont's policy shift into votes at the ballot box?

Apology for the loss of subtitles for 1783 seconds

And the cuts to the police civilian It can been done entirely within

the law. It will show the government that they have to think

again. The reason we see that is because the people we represent all

that if we do not oppose what is happening, they will regret it for

decades to come. You think the government will say that they will

stop this course and will have a new plan because of a strike? It is

inconceivable. If you had the whole of the public behind you, it is

feasible that might happen. But you will not. It is not going to happen.

There is not the Wellspring of support. To simply go out on strike

generally, you will not that everybody to do so, within Nineties,

you will be coming back with nothing achieved. You have a very

pessimistic outlook. If that we tell you something about the people

I represent. The majority of am earn less than �20,000 a year.

Their living standards have collapsed. End of the civil service,

their jobs are going. If that is true, why did only 20% bother to

vote about a strike this summer? a result of the threat to strike,

1100 extra permanent jobs were won in the Home Office. If things are

so bad, why do your members not even bother to vote? One of the

reasons why I think there is a problem with turnout is that if you

look at the political parties, nobody is offering any alternative

or any hope. Many people are affected by the gloom and despair.

I am convinced that when people realise that 80% of the cuts are

still to come, not only will the support industrial action, I

believe it will be popular with members of the public. The last

time we had a massive strike, most people supported the strike even

though we had been demonised in the media. It is unfair to say that

most people are not offering a hope. Ed Miliband will be making a speech

this week about responsible capitalism and despair sing wealth

better. -- disbursing. The biggest union has called for a purge on

Blairites. How long will the unions pay for the Labour Party and of get

what they want? They will carry on paying for the Labour Party. The

task for the Labour Party is to supplement that muddy with extra

Buddy. As Labour becomes a more likely to form part of a government,

you will find more money coming to the Labour Party. Ed Miliband has

to resist Mr McCluskey. His chances of being Prime Minister are reduced

if he does not. What is the point of supporting the Labour Party if

unions do not go much in return? century ago, the Labour Party was

founded by the unions to speak up for working people. There are still

some in the Labour Party -- in the union movement who believe that

link is worth maintaining. Ed Miliband has to understand he does

not enthuse or inspire anyone when his slogan is that he will cut

slightly less, slightly less fast. People want to be inspired. We need

to say that the markets are dictating social policy in Britain

will be challenged. I understand that, it is not what I asked, but

never mind. Is there any chance of a general strike? It is part of the

fantasy left. There will not be a general strike. I do not get

fixated on the labels. And it will be for more than a day if we do not

see a change of direction. You are watching this Sunday

Good morning and welcome to Sunday Politics Scotland. Coming up on the

programme. The new Head of the Police Service admits more civilian

job losses are on the way. Over 8% of back office jobs have already

been cut. So is there a tipping point where bobbies on the beat end

up becoming bobbies on the seat? We'll be live in Manchester at the

Labour Party Conference with Douglas Alexander.

A former kirk minister and now Princeton professor tells Wigtown

Book festival that Scottish public life is in crisis. The civic

solution - a space in the debate where everyone can be a bit braver

and a bit more more respectful of each other.

And as the women for independence campaign launches, we ask if female

voters really need special attention?

Stephen House, the clear favourite, has become the Chief Constable of

the new Police Service of Scotland. He will take up his duties soon in

advance of the amalgamation of the existing eight forces on April the

1st. But already he has sparked controversy with his admission that

more than 3,000 civilian staff may have to lose their jobs. The

Government is of course pledged to maintain the number of police

officers. It has alarmed unions and they are seeking a meeting with the

new Chief Constable later this week. Our Home Affairs Correspondent,

Reevel Alderson reports. Athan blue line, not if the

government has its way. It is pledged to maintain police officer

levels at 1000 more than when it took office. So far, it has managed

But their new chief constable, Stephen House, knows that he must

cut spending and he has admitted that up to 3200 civilian staff may

go. It has been a process of that Can more cuts be made without

hitting police operations? It makes logical sense that staff can be cut.

Each force has an HR department, payable staff and admin. These will

all be merged. But there are other civilians whose jobs directly

support uniformed officers. will not be able to maintain order

officers on the street if there is an absence of support in the offers.

People lead to find out about warrants. They IFS no one doing

that administrative work. The same goes for intelligence work. --

there is no one doing. The Liberal Democrats have consistently opposed

the single for Los and see it will be a retrograde step if police

officers have to do these jobs again. You have to make sure you

have the right people in the right places. Police officer should not

be in the back Office to do jobs that prevent them from getting out

on the front line. Government supporters see rationalisation is

inevitable. They argue the process could be wider than just the police

service. They are opportunities collected with collaborative work

in other authorities. The fire service for instance and ambulance

service. We do not need all the posts that presently exist.

government has also said there will be there all outsourcing of

functions to a private companies to reduce the Staff head count. But

how can services be maintained with these reductions? In our Inverness

studio this morning is Chief Superintendent David O'Connor.

He is the President of the Association of Scottish Police

Superintendents, that's the national body which represents

operational commanders across Scotland.

Thank you for joining us. That Sunday Herald is reporting that the

single force will involve cuts of 300 million over the next three

years, 550 staff will go immediately and �26 million will

come out of terms and conditions for police officers. But these

figures that you recognise? These figures have not been discussed at

the Police Reform Group. The article today makes a reference to

the Police Reform Group. I am a member of that particular group and

I have not had an opportunity to scrutinise these figures.

understand they have come principally from across. -- Actos.

How concerned would you be? We have backed a single police service

across Scotland. We also have opposition that we believe in the

balance of a workforce. That is about police officers delivering

local and national policing, supported by support staff in a

whole range of functions. We would like to have an early meeting with

Stephen House and the convenor of the new police authority to discuss

this particular balance. It is unfortunate if you have already

said that this is a good idea in principle, and as it turns out, do

you have any reservations at all? We always supported the concept of

a single police service for Scotland. It was about maintaining

police officer numbers as a part of a balanced workforce. It was about

removing duplication. One of the factors there was involved was the

downturn in the economy and the need to make efficiency savings.

But what will it mean for policing in that Scotland? Their new policy

model will have to have a balance between police officers and police

staff. That will involve the types of officers in forensics and

custody suites, in detention centres. This is people's jobs we

are talking about. The report says that redundant posts will be filled

by police officers. Policing is a complex business. It is a mix of

skills, experience and power. We want the right person with the

right scale doing the right job at the right time. I have to labour

this point. Policing is about a balance to work force. There is a

great deal of rhetoric about front line policing. We need to move

forward and agree and develop a model for policing for Scotland.

That comprises police officers and police staff would to provide a

very important job. In principle, if police officers are taken of

frontline duties, is that appropriate for their role at what

we all expect them to do? Is it appropriate that they are not on

the beat it and doing something behind the desk? We as commanders

wanted to see police officers who are highly trained and highly

experienced out doing the job in their local communities. You have

spoken about the demarcation lines between his some forms of police

work. Does there need to be greater clarity about who is in the fraud

team, the drugs team, the forensic team? Should they be lend him with

the civilian staff when it comes to these cuts? -- linked in. I think

there needs to be a very clear debate and a clear understanding of

what these terms actually mean. Sometimes these terms can be

unhelpful. What is the point of having a debate now of the deal is

already done? It is back to the point that I was making earlier. We

accept that savings have to be made, but we still need to have the

opportunity as a staff association and the unions still the to have a

meeting in relation to the figures that are being provided to allow

them to represent the interests of their members and, more importantly,

to develop a new policing order for Scotland. Does at the new structure

allow you to do that as efficiently as you could have done before? For

example, the former Highlander chief constable is saying that the

new authority, the support staff, the budgets, none of that will be

decided locally, it will all be decided centrally. One of the

things that we have got a challenge with is the constraints of time.

Then you police service for Scotland will be up and running in

April. -- the their new police service. Thank you very much for

Johann Lamont set the cat among the pigeons this week with a surprise

and radical policy shift. She said that the idea that Scotland could

remain in a nation where everything was free is a lie propagated by the

SNP. A commission is looking into the affordability of universal

benefits such as free care for the elderly, tuition fees, bus passes

and others. We went to meet some of the people who benefit from these

policies. People at this coffee morning are

dipping into their pockets for charity. This is a leafy suburb to

the South of Glasgow. They are digesting the news that Johann

Lamont wants to overhaul universal benefits, but they seem attached to

get free bus passes and prescription. I worked on my life

and I do not get any other benefits. I worked until I was 70. I have

paid in, so why not? I have paid for it! We should all have to pay

something. We are having a problem financially, so we should pay

something. When it comes to benefits, most people here feel

they are entitled to their slice of the cake, but Labour are sounding

the alarm, saying the plate is empty. The idea that Scotland is a

land where everything is free is alive. Somebody always pays for it

in the end. A council tax freeze costs. It is cheap to say, but

expensive to fund. An expert has been charged with examining the

affordability of universal benefits. One party estimate is that they

cost �1 billion every year. Labour say the current financial situation

means that 30,000 public-sector jobs have been lost in their class

to 18 months. These are people who are leaving their posts. That takes

spending power out of the economy. We cannot have a recovery while

that is happening and while other services are being protected.

Nothing is off the table in this review, but it led to allegations

that Labour were betraying their socialist principles. It is

actually quite tragic to. Johann Lamont, a poster girl for be Tories,

whatever happened to Labour? We used to have new Labour, and now we

have Johann Lamont, New Blair. have to live with the reality of

the public finance situation. They are difficult decisions to be made

and we have to find a way of delivering social justice in these

times. Despite what most people at the coffee morning said, the social

service -- attitude suggests a fifty-fifty split over whether or

not people should play -- pay for prescriptions and personal care.

Their stance could be a gamble. SNP went through the same thing.

They do think in their heart of Hearts that a lot of Scottish

people would see the need and the reason behind small cuts. When it

came to it, they said thanks, but no thanks. The party may think that

honesty is the best policy, but when it comes to goodies, voters

may find it hard to resist temptation.

Listing to that at the Labour Party conference is the Shadow Foreign

Secretary and MP for Paisley and Renfrewshire South, Douglas

Alexander. Thank you for talking to us. If we look at this issue of

universal benefits festival, whatever the merits of the argument,

it is a risky political discretion to have, so it is imperative that

these are kids are presented coherently and credibly from the

beginning. Has this happened? think what Johann Lamont did this

week was to start a serious conversation about a serious issue,

which is, how do you deliver social justice in tough times against a

backdrop of real fiscal head wins - - winds when many will be in short

supply after 2015? That has provoked a strong reaction from the

SNP, but that is because the SNP feel they have been winning in

Scotland. The dynamic has been between Scotland and the rest of

the United Kingdom. Johann Lamont was opening up a different

conversation, saying there is still an important left right

conversation in the country. That will cause difficulty for the SNP,

but it is a timely conversation and a necessary one, because my own

patch in Paisley, we are seeing annual cuts of almost 10%. Why

should young children in Paisley be suffering as a direct taught --

consequence of the SNP's decisions? You say it is a timely and

necessary conversation, but the question I ask you was, in a week

in which we have seen the Scottish Conservatives are meeting to say

they are glad to see Johann Lamont come on board with their ideas, has

a complex argument been put forward clearly enough at this stage tee?

Should you be associated with the Conservatives? Let me make the

point that you quoted the Conservatives and I could quite an

eerie and Bevan. Johann Lamont was opening up a conversation about

what Scotland's priorities were for building be good society. I do not

know why these aside -- Gethin be is scared of the debate. Is there a

time to draw a line and say that you can be clear about the

timescale and tell people what the priorities are before the

referendum vote? We are very early into the new Scottish Parliament.

It is said to recognise that Labour suffered a bad defeat last year. I

think now is the time to set out her stall and are thinking. We have

been midwinter Commission which will look at all these issues of

affordability. The other point worth making is that we have always

believed in a welfare state that balances universalism with targeted

support. That is why we have the state pension, but also the pension

credit. We have child benefit, but also child tax credit. And not

clear as to the are to be that says there needs to be a line of clarity,

because in Scotland we have had years of universal and targeted

support. The balance between those two is a legitimate debate to be

had in the years ahead. If you are saying that at the time of the

referendum, Labour going saying we have to have a debate about it,

your opponents can attach anything they want to it as they have done

this week. I am not complacent about the referendum, but I

understand the desperation in the nationalist camps. It has been

fortified years that the SNP have been polling about 30% in support

of independence. That remains the case despite their historic victory

last year. I understand the appetite amongst journalists and

politicians to try to attribute every move in a Holyrood on its

impact on referendum figures. The numbers have not shifted one iota

since Alex Salmond was elected in 2007. I think our job is to make

the case that Scotland would be best it within the United Kingdom,

but also to get on with the task with recognising the fact that

Scottish Labour is thinking hard about what are tough questions.

Bill Clinton sped to the Democrats a couple of weeks ago and said that

his issues in terms of the budget was not tied into ideology but

arithmetic. What Johann Lamont was saying in Edinburgh this week was

not just related to ideology but also to the basic arithmetic. The

SNP will be cut in services, but they do not want to have a

conversation about which services those will be. All the universal

benefits that I enjoyed in Scotland at the minute are up for grabs.

Means testing is inevitable now in this debate, isn't it? In the

welfare state that we have had for many years, there has been a

conversation -- combination of universal and targeted support.

That will be the case still. There will be universal benefits, but

also targeted support. The logic of that argument is that the the

wealthiest people should pay for their NHS treatment tee No. As I

have said, we recognise the principle of access to the NHS. Let

me make my point. When we came to power in 1997, we face a judgement

as to whether to put the additional revenues we were generating into

the basic state pension or target that money towards the poorest

pensioners through the pension credit. I am not ashamed of the

decision to target the poorest pensioners first with extra help.

That was the right decision for social justice, and that is the

kind of conversation that Johann Lamont was beginning this week.

That is the point that I'm trying to make to you. The electorate have

a right to know what these principles are and what these

distinctions are that you will draw and what you're spending priorities

will be before they go to be referendum vote. He seemed very

relaxed about the timing of this. Arthur midwinter has his work to

take forward as is always the case. The Scottish Labour Party was set

at our thinking at the time of be manifestos before the election.

There will be further opportunities for Johann Lamont to set at her

thinking. I welcome the idea that there is a serious conversation to

be had about a serious issue that is already affecting my

constituents. Renfrewshire has already suffered a cut in its

funding while other better off areas have had increases in its

funding. -- in their funding. This issue is happening now. This debate

demands to be had now. I welcome the fact that Johann Lamont started

this week. I take the rather hysterical reaction of some

nationalists as evidence that despite the posts and the bluster,

they do not have good chances in this debate. Today in the

newspapers, it says that Labour seeks more powers for Holyrood.

Labour has established at a commission on further devolution.

You have been calling for a further devolved vision for Scotland. Have

they been too slow to get out of the blocks on this one? I welcomed

the devolution commission that Jeilan has announced. -- that

Johann Lamont has announced. We have been talking about the tough

choices that are faced in delivering social justice. It is

right to look at the issue as to what is the best constitutional

settlement for Scotland. We do not accept that a separate state is the

best way forward, but I think that in a pragmatic or calm and

reasonable fashion, we should look at the devolution settlement and

whether that offers the best balance of powers which can give

Scotland the opportunity to grow and succeed in the future. Douglas

Alexander, we have to leave it there. Thank you for joining us.

Coming up later on the programme, we will be hearing from William

Storrar, the theological professor from Princeton University. We'll

also be finding out what we need for independence are up to. That is

all after the lunch time news at 12pm with Tim Willcox and Andrew

Good afternoon. The Labour leader Ed Miliband has said he will stand

up to powerful interest groups on behalf of the hard-working majority.

Speaking ahead of the start of the Labour Party conferences after

being, Ed Miliband said he would take on the banks and his own trade

union supporters as he seeks to rebuild the British economy. Arts

correspondent reports. The slogan is, rebuilding Britain.

That Labour also has to rebuild the trust it loss at the last election.

They need to convince voters that Ed Miliband is a potential Prime

Minister. He was recognised by this writer this morning, but although

his party is ahead in the polls, his own ratings remain poor. He

says that Labour has to change, but he will remain trees to himself.

I'm going to do it my own way. I think in the end people respect

somebody who has seriousness of purpose. It is not just Labour's

conference which is getting a makeover. The task is to find

policies which are distinctive for be -- from the coalition --

distinct from the coalition but do not cause a crash. Ed Miliband is

prepared to break up the banks to protect High Street customers from

investment operations. That is a massive difference in priorities

between a Prime Minister that I aspire to beer, -- aspire to be, to

help people who cannot get by on their own, and a government which

just wants to cut taxes for the rich. The unions make a big

financial contribution to the Labour Party, and they want to use

their muscle to influence party policy. Ed Miliband says he will

not give into his party pay masters on the subject of pay. We are

tackling the subject of pay rises, bit it is the way to keep jobs.

The number of American service personnel who have lost their lives

in Afghanistan since the beginning of the conflict in 2001 has reached

2000. A US soldier was shot dead yesterday in a so-called green-on-

blue attack by a member of the Afghan security forces.

A fire in the Syrian city of Aleppo has destroyed many of the medieval

markets there as a fighting rages between government troops and

rebels. Fires tour through many areas of the old city, a UNESCO

heritage site. It is the final day of playing the

Ryder Cup which gets under way in Chicago in America. America's of us

are just 4.5 points short of victory over the Europeans.

That is all the news without. There will be more on BBC One at 6:35pm.

Good afternoon. Hundreds of people were delayed at Glasgow Airport

overnight because of a UK Border Force computer failure. Passengers

on three planes travelling from Greece and Egypt were forced to

wait for several hours. The system eventually returns to normal, with

queues taking about three hours to clear.

The school della blogger Martha Payne has arrived with her family

in Malawi to see how the thousands of pounds she raised on a website

is being spent. She commented on her in-flight meal on a read.

Donations to their website soared after a controversial ban was

imposed on the block by Argyll and Bute Council. 2000 children are

being fed every day in one kitchen which has been set up.

Golf, and in the final days of the Ryder Cup, the European team are up

against it. The Scottish player has played in two matches and has lost

both so far. USA lead lot -- Europe by 10 points to six. Here is the

The weather will get better as we go through his afternoon. There

will be some showers in the North and West. The rain will eventually

cleared, turning bright for most, with some lovely spells of sunshine.

It is a windy afternoon, particularly in the North West.

Temperatures are mild, at about 15 Celsius. A fine ends today in the

East and in the South, but there will still be showers in the North

West. Can we hope for a more public

spirited Scotland to emerge from the independence debate? That was

the big question to the Wigtown Book Festival from Professor

William Storrar, seasoned campaigner in bringing politics to

the people. William Storrar, academic and

Church of Scotland minister, has flown in from America where he is

the directors of the Princeton Center of Theological Enquiry. His

message to the audience is that the All player-power to challenge

corrupt capitalism s public spirit. He cites their attitude of three

men in particular. Magnus Magnusson, because he had the same courteous

respect for everyone. The trade unionist Campbell Christian who

knew how to charm, captivate misfits. And Sir Neil McCormick who

threw his intellect and generosity of character transformed the

Scottish public sphere. And Professor William Storrar is here

with me this afternoon. You were playing to a packed

audience? It was very exciting. The lady next door it was talking about

six in her book and we were talking about Scotland. -- sex. You were

talking about the contribution that was made by the men we have just

seen. What is happening now that was different when you were out on

the campaign trail to get a parliament for Scotland? I think

these are three remarkable Scots were the last of a generation of

politics where you work to through the big institutions, the BBC, the

STUC, that universities to lead a public debate. I think that now the

public life and the public spirit has migrated into all sorts of

initiatives. People who care about the environment, women's networks,

and I think we have got to be Advent a new kind of public

politics for ordinary citizens three those kind of met works a

rather than the big names. -- networks. How does that filter

through into traditional political avenues? We think how we can make

an impact on the politicians. Another great Scot, Steven Maxwell,

a brilliant thinker about citizenship and Scotland said that

you cannot have a healthier Holyrood unless you have a health a

civil society around it. The politicians, to do their job,

whatever happens after the vote, we need and a healthy, active group of

citizens who are having their own debate about the kind of Scotland

we want to live in. It is interesting what will happen after

that vote. You have said in your lecture that we need to know how to

carry ourselves in public. The world is watching and waiting. Not

so much to see the outcome of the board, but to see how we conduct

ourselves in public. Do you have concerned that if the court -- to

do you have concerns that if the tone of the debate is no right and

respect for, it will poison the well? Absolutely. How we start is

how we finish. If it we demonise ll the other side -- if we demonise

the other side as the end of the, we have already lost the vote. The

day after the vote, we will still be living in Scotland and working

for the common good. How we conduct ourselves and a -- as an Asian will

determine how we will live together and work together as a nation.

There are initiatives around the world to set up new democracies

were people have a stake and they want to see Scotland show the way,

whatever the result of the referendum. Do you think it will be

easier to conduct the right to beat out in the communities and rather

than in the tribal environment a Politics? Absolutely. We went out

in a minibus with a group of Scottish writers and poets and we

went to Aberdeenshire, down to Lesmahagow, outside the central

belt, into town halls and church halls, and hundreds of ordinary

citizens took part in a wonderfully rich of debate about what kind of

Scotland we were hoping for. We must do the same again. I hope that

communities will well, its back for the debate. You will be back on the

bus? Absolutely. I hope this time that we will have some of the

fabulous of young women in Scotland, who are absolutely active citizens.

And opposing viewpoints as well? absolutely. The group Women for

Independence launches today. It's not officially part of the Yes

Scotland Campaign but runs alongside it. We'll speak to one of

the organisers in just a second. But first Hayley Jarvis has been

asking in an age of equality if female voters really need special

attention? Flags at the pro-independence rally

in Edinburgh last weekend. Does the referendum debate need to be

tailored towards the female vote? A Why are women less likely to have

made up their minds? It is not to do with depth of feelings of

national identity. There is no evidence of that at all. There is a

marked difference between men and women been how confident they feel

about independence. It is central to the debate as far as women are

concerned, they are more risk- averse, more worried about the

prospect of independence. How will the Budget affect women in Scotland.

She feels that issues that affect remember voters have been sidelined.

We need to talk less about whether we are going to be in the tour and

talk about what we are going to do about the pick up. -- in NATO.

is long gone that women were overlooked because they were women

and did not know about these things. For most women, they would rather

be where the politics are at. That is where the decisions are a bit.

What women have a greater voice with engaging with their two main

campaign groups? The launch is in full flow at the

moment but the former SSP MSP, Carolyn Leckie has nipped outside

to join us. Do women identify it simply as

women? Not simply as women. I think people's identities are diverse and

complex. That is why be formed because women are not uniform. But

we do not bring that women's voices had been heard up to now. We want

to listen to what their views are, their ideals and aspirations before

we do anything. We think that the independence debate so far has been

very male dominated at as take him on the tone of a boxing match

already. We hope to seat a burgeoning of democracy a month's

remember. Women have a long history of self organising. They want to

make sure that our voices are heard. We are not waiting for permission

to be heard or asking to be invited to be heard. You might be going on

this bus with William Storrar? Possibly. We do not know where this

will take us. The women who have come together a very diverse. We

support independence. But what kind of Scotland B one-11, we want to

create a spade for women to him -- what kind of Scotland we wanted to

live in, we want to create a space of four women to discuss that.

are almost out of time. You are a campaigning group. Would there have

been met in creating a women only forum where the debate could be

created in a manner that you would consider more constructive and for

all parties? And we would participate in anything with any

groups in discussion. We want to approach it with a different tone

and more respectful and listen to people. Including remember,

particularly who do not support independence. -- including women. I

think they will learn a lot through that process.

Thank you for that. Now in a moment, we'll be

discussing the big events coming up this week, but first, let's take a

look back at the Week in Sixty Remarkable scenes followed severe

rainstorms. A budget moment for the pro-union better together campaign

when a JK Rowling kid down in favour of the Union. We are in a

stable, sound position. I didn't want to stabilise that.

MSP express their horror at the level of inequality of care

experienced by its travellers. Europe was checking the small print

And now it's time to take a look at the week ahead.

And joining me this week are the Spectator blogger Alex Massie and

the journalist Anna Burnside. What will be happening at the

Labour Party conference? It looks like what ever the relationship

with the unions, if they get into the unions, then they are in the

unions' pocket. It is hard to see who is going to come well out of

this. McCluskey wants all the playwrights out will stop --

playwrights -- Billy Wrights out. It is hard to see how are Ed

Miliband well, out of this. I agree entirely. It cannot end well. Which

is quite entertaining for everyone else. Whoever pays the piper calls

of the two. For as long as the Labour Party is 60% funded by the

unions, it is not unreasonable for the unions to wish to have an

influence on Labour Party policy. That causes a certain amount of

difficulty for Ed Miliband given that union membership is lower now

than it ever has been. The Labour Party is trying to run away from

Tony Blair as it possibly can add playwright has become a term of

abuse, -- Blairite. Ed Balls has been saying that an

incoming Labour government would be ruthless on budgets, but they are

trying to Saughton a line -- soften. They are trying to manoeuvre

Liberal Democrats out of the coalition. Going along with the

mansion tax is an obvious attempt to put a wedge in there. I thought

that was quite interesting. If we look back at what has happened in

Scotland over the past week. Johann Lamont's statements about universal

benefit. How do you think it was presented? I thought it was an

interesting repudiation of the last 50 Years of the Scottish Labour

party's approach to politics which has been essentially to be in an

auction with their SNP to dole out as many sweeties to the electorate

as possible. In a normal, go on a political culture, the notion that

you might have to raise taxes is not so controversial. But in

Scotland, this is a great betrayal. It is a depressing commentary on

public life in this country. Aggregate was a mistake to get

trapped in the relatively trivial things of free prescriptions, a

free bus passes. Those are not actually major items of expenditure.

What was much more interesting was their attack on the council tax

freeze which is a benefit for wealthy Scots at the expense, to

some extent, of poorer Scots. Particularly those who are more

dependent on council services. The wealthy 10 not to rely on council

services as much as the poor. -- tend not to rely. A council tax

free, there were a useful it is, does have an impact. For a Labour

politician to say we need to redistribute wealth, do you think

that comes across yet? How are people hearing this? That is the

most obvious thing for everyone to sit. It is terrible that these rich

people are getting these benefits, but obviously, I deserve education

for my children and somebody to look after my mother. People have

called her brave and bold, with inverted commas hovering in the air.

In a grown-up world, the possibly would not have to have that debate.

But politics is not like that. It is hard to see how people can sort

out from all the fuss there has been over this announcement that

actually come of the subtle things she was the end, with all the mud

slinging... It is an open goal. You cannot blame everybody for having a