28/10/2012 Sunday Politics Scotland


Andrew Neil and Isabel Fraser present the latest political news, interviews and debate, including treasury minister Danny Alexander on the economic outlook for the UK.

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station in the capital. Gary Glitter was brought out of his


home in central London and taken into custody early this morning. He


was arrested as part of Operation Yewtree, off the police


investigation into the stream of allegations Jimmy Savile and others.


A former pop star, has already served position -- prison sentences


for a child offences in Britain and Vietnam. His name has also been


mentioned in connection with Jimmy Savile. Lord Patten has told a


newspaper that the scandal as but the BBC's reputation on the line.


The corporation was dedicated to finding out that truth. Labour says


the investigation set up by the BBC are not enough. Her we need one


overarching enquiry. It should be independent because there are big


lessons to be learned here, not just for the BBC, although the


epicentre was that the BBC, but elsewhere. The police in --


investigation has produced over 300 alleged victims. In the days ahead


police are expected to make several more arrests.


An independent think-tank is suggesting that a crackdown on gang


culture if in a response to last year's riots may have backfired.


The Centre for Social Justice claims that in some cases arrests


led to more violence. It calls on the authorities to prevent


youngsters joining gangs in the first place.


A BBC investigation has found some care homes in England that had been


awarded a five star ratings by independent companies are failing


to meet the essential requirements. In the United States, president


Obama has held a conference call with emergency chutes to print --


prepare for one of the biggest arms to hit the eastern seaboard for


many years. Hurricane Sandy is that already 1000 kilometres wide and


after lunch all it is likely to collide with a winter storm from


the West. State of emergency is in place across most of the East Coast.


That is all the news for now. There will be more news on BBC One at


five past sex. -- 5 Pass six.


Good afternoon. Scottish Ministers want more powers to deal with


drink-driving. The SNP Government is to cut the limit, but also wants


to be able to conduct random testing and bring in tougher


measures for young drivers. It is now planning to cut the limit


from 80 milligrams of alcohol per 100 millilitres of blood if down to


50 milligrams. But SNP Ministers now say that has not gone far


enough. The Scottish Justice Secretary has asked Westminster for


a further responsibilities which would allow police to carry out


random breath testing as well as being able to make penalties for


the offence even tougher. And Scottish Ministers also won powers


to cut their drink-drive limit for or even further fir Newt a


qualified drivers. -- or a newly qualified.


The drink-drive limit will be staying as it is an England wells


north of the border Scottish Ministers say more action is needed


to tackle the problem. The Chief Secretary to the tragedy


-- Treasury, Danny Alexander, says the First Minister Alex Salmond as


more questions to answer about his conduct over legal advice and


Scotland's membership of the European Union. Why was it that he


allowed thousands of pounds of taxpayers' money was invested in


preparing a court case to prevent him releasing legal advice that


turned out do not exist on Scotland's EU membership. There are


rules about public finance in this country which means you should not


waste taxpayers' money. This is one of the most extraordinary episodes


of the most extraordinary episodes we have seen so far. If time for


the weather: After a bright start to the weekend yesterday, we are


ending on Saddam not. Fairly breezy as well. -- on a damp


note. Temperature Wise, around nine or ten degrees in the south-west.


Into the rest of the evening, the rain clears away and showers


continue in the north-west. Tonight it should be frost-free. That is


the forecast for now. It is back to The NHS needs to make millions of


pounds of savings. Audit Scotland says the health service needs to


focus on long-term planning, and the way its finances are organised


makes that difficult. After years of growth the health


service is facing a leaner times. The NHS must save �270 million this


year, nearly 50 million less than last year it still challenging. It


is a sign NHS Scotland is not in a half a % rise in energy prices cost


�2 million for the largest Health Board, Greater Glasgow and Clyde.


Even so, Audit Scotland van or Health Board broke even in the


financial year 2011-12. But the report sheds light on how it that


was done and says the focus on balancing the books every year may


skew priorities. The risk for the short term is that changes are


really needed to meet the challenges available in the future


and the demographic changes we know are coming can be squeezed out. The


annual focus can make the changes harder. We know that in order to


break even each year, some wards were having to move money across


the system. Others were relying on savings and a handful relied on


extra support from the Scottish Government. We think it would


increase transparency that was made more apparent in the accounts.


Scottish health boards say they will meet their targets this year


but said that may become harder to achieve. This expert in public


finance degrees and highlights a backlog in building and equipment


maintenance that is built up to a estimated billions of pounds.


dangers of efficiency savings are the huge amount of bad luck


expenditure on maintenance. There are huge budgetary pressures that


will not go away. The short-term pressures are there and exist so


you can say it is a nice idea over the long term but the pressures on


the health boards are on the short term. At Holyrood the sometimes to


polarised debate about health spending... The health budget is


predicted to decline in real terms for the next three years at the


Scottish Government maintains the Budget is going up and that


investments are taking place to help patient care. It says there is


currently a realistic increase in spending. If you spend any time


with nurses, with the ambulance service, with patients themselves,


you will hear stories of the NHS scribbling. -- Sproat -- struggling.


The NHS staff do a great job but they cannot keep doing it with


fewer resources and increased demand. If you look at the number


of people treated by the NHS every year, if you look at the waiting


times for performance, the improved treatments, the number of


operations we are doing, all of that is performing far better than


it has ever done, so to say that the National Health Service in any


way is in any kind of crisis is total nonsense. There are


challenges that we are rising to the challenges. All parties


recognise times are tough. The question is how best to cope and


the answer really matters. End your health spending of �11.5 billion --


annual health spending, is about a third of the entire Scottish budget.


With me is Theresa Fyffe, the Scottish director of the Royal


College of Nursing, and Ian Mullen, the former chair of NHS Forth


Valley. Theresa Fyffe, two characterisations we heard there


from the Scottish Government and the Labour Party. One saying there


is no crisis, another saying this is an alarm call. What you think?


The first thing we need to do is acknowledge that the staff, doctors,


nurses, managers who are delivering good health outcomes for patients,


but they're doing that against a backdrop of increasing financial


restraints and what the NHS board are doing to balance the books are


not sustainable. The what way? Things like keeping a vacancy open


for a number of months, or trying to reduce the workforce. Nurses may


be having to continue to provide the same service with less staff


and less resources. That cannot continue because that has an impact


on the well-being and stress of those staff. And this is a result


of the way that the budgets are run on an annual basis, that there is


not enough thought to the long term? When you are running annually


and you have a savings target to meet you have to find those savings


and they tend to be on a short-term basis. What the hell sports are


struggling to do, there's some have done that, is fined and release the


money to be able to do a significance service redesigned


that might bring in the savings they require, so short term, it


does not allow that approach to happen. Ian Mullen, you have done


it. You have been in charge of his money and had to wrestle with these


problems. Is it difficult? course, but I think auditors always


look at a very small part of any system and examine it, and that is


what Audit Scotland have done in this particular case. They have


looked at the financial performance of the NHS and they have not looked


at the big picture because that was not their role here, and what they


have said is that three of the health board's required additional


financial support, which is repayable and that financial


support was based on some quite specific problems for those three


boards. But they were unhappy people did not know about that.


They have to uncover it, basically. I think... I think anyone reading


the annual accounts of those three health boards would see that they


had support. What they would not have seen was the detail of that


and that is precisely what Audit Scotland have done. But is also


important to remember that there were other -- and nine other votes


which produced services, so overall, NHS Scotland break even. -- nine


other boards. In doing that it is also important to realise that in


achieving that breaking point, the health service has continued to


provide a very high quality of service. When I was appointed ten


years ago as an NHS chair, people were waiting two-and-a-half years


for hip replacements, for example. Now it is nine weeks, and that is


still being achieved under this financial regime. Sure, but do you,


for Theresa Fyffe, think we have yet had an honest debate about how


we're going to continue to afford this level of care? I do not think


so. I understand what Ian is saying which is why I said at the


beginning that the performance of the NHS in Scotland has been very


good. But the public has to understand we will have financial


constraints that will increase and if we're not able to demonstrate


where the shift of funding in the system is, that transparency about


where money is being used, where it goes, what is being spent on in


health, the public will not understand that there is actually


choice and perhaps the toughest choices in the future. By u talking


about -- are you talking about big ticket items, flagship policies?


believe so. The public at the moment might say, for example,


there has been the recent debate about three prescriptions, whether


we can have for theirs. You are saying we cannot? I am not saying


so at all. -- about whether we can afford those. We are concerned that


the efficiency and productivity that can be delivered in the health


service, already much has been done about that, but when you try, for


example, to find funding for a new innovation, for example, in the


Western Isles I have brought in the use of digital pence. -- has a 35 %


productivity. In a nutshell. They give the ability to electronically


collect data. The communities have nurses that are able to collect


that data. We cannot get the funding for that and we do not know


why it is not available because it did not transparent. Ian, is the


problem not a tussle between the short and long term? I do not


except to research's point that the public do not face -- understand


financial restraint. Perhaps they do not understand that it means


that at some point something has to give? Actually, I bear the scars of


dozens of public meetings and when we have gone and discussed the


services we were going to provide and how we wanted to change, and it


may be simple to have the discussion with the public about


changing things like reducing tattoo removal and so forth, but


when you start to talk about reducing expensive services such as


infertility, there was a real problem, so I am all for being as


open as possible to the public. I think that is very important that I


do go back to the fact that the health service is still currently


providing a range of high quality services, even in the current


financial situation. I think you both agree on at any weight. Thank


you Bose very much indeed. Music, according to one of


Scotland's most talented performers, is like daily medicine. Dame Evelyn


Glennie made her name as a virtuoso percussionist, a superb achievement


for anyone, all the more remarkable considering she is profoundly deaf.


Now after her stunning role in the opening ceremony at the London


Olympics, she is performing a new show in Glasgow and banging the


drum for musical education in schools.


On the threshold a factory in her native North East, Evelyn Glenlee


delights the audience. -- Dame Evelyn Glennie. These amazing


talent was encouraged by supportive teachers at school in Aberdeenshire


and that London Royal Academy of Music. She says she feels music as


vibrations in the air and her deafness does not really affect her


life very much. Her contribution to the UK music scene was recognised


in this performance at the London Dame Evelyn Glennie is in Glasgow


this weekend performing at the Tramway with dancers. But would her


career have flourished in today's education system? A recent study of


5,000 pupils by Strathclyde University found that not one with


a physical disability was being taught how to play a musical


instrument. Three at a four councils also charge for music


lessons and a report claims deprived children are missing out


on the chance to become the next Dame Evelyn Glennie.


I caught up with Dame Evelyn Glennie yesterday and she began by


explaining to me how vital her own education was to her musical


development. People just sang and played whatever instruments


happened to be in the House. We were not looking for the next X


Factor winner or something. Music was an extension to a family


environment. Families are very fragmented nowadays and it is hard


to get that seamless line between a family life and education. And it


really was the case where families knew what was going on in schools


and I really felt that, and the staff were able to feed the


information and in a way to almost be able to give a more bespoke


education for individuals. Now it is very hard to do that when you


have the mother here and the father there and goodness knows, the


fragmented structure. It is far more difficult to do that. So it is


a challenge for the current education system to provide the


kind of support that you had in a different environment? I think that


is true, coupled with the fact that we have just exploded with


technology and so on and although there is more communication that


happens, we can all communicate with each other far more quickly


and more easily than actually ever before, and in a way we are all


experiencing music more than we have ever done before, but


everything is in a much more isolated way. And in a way, there


is also this feeling of we expect something to happen. That has done


something to us. I feel we have lost the journey of being able to


achieve something. And I feel this is something that is affecting our


education system, the way that the teachers interact with pupils. It


is really listening and finding out what is it that makes that


individual tick. So you would say you got good support at school but


I suppose it is suffering now due to cuts. How important you think it


is to make sure that all children at are included when it comes to


the arts in school? It is vital. For me there is no debate on this.


It is absolutely crucial. The one thing about Alan academy, the


school are Renter as a secondary school, was that it was a former


integrated school. You had hearing impaired people, sight impaired


people, people with all sorts of challenges. And the motto, as it


were, are the headmaster, and all of the staff menders -- members,


was that every pupil belonged to every single department of that


school and I remember several youngsters being part of the


musical department, including me, and I was accepted like any other


child of a hat. And that psychologically was so important,


and we see this time and time again. If we take something like Japanese


music and we see the power of that, with, for example, adults who have


experienced brain damage or are the challenges in their lives, there is


no compromise musically. This is something that, for example,


Strathclyde University has really explored, and is happening up and


down the country. Do not leave it too late for something to happen.


We need to feed the youngsters immediately and I truly mean


immediately. But we also need to support the families as well, to


give the families that understanding of why music is so


important and the participation is I would also like to talk about you


or involvement in the Olympics? wanted to depict the industrial


revolution. I was very happy an honour to be involved with this.


That was a terrific example of teamwork and by that I mean


teamwork from the whole technical crew working behind the scenes. But


also the fact that 99% of the people we saw perform off, and


certainly drumming in my part, where volunteers. People who had


never picked up a pair of drumsticks before. I cannot tell


you the impact that that has had on people. In a way we are seeing this


with the wonderful work that Gareth Malone is doing with the workplace


choirs and different environments. We are seeing the power of music in


that kind of way. What this country, the British Isles has done, is


really, we have got such richness and our culture, traditional


culture, music and dance and art and so on, we have been able to do


-- in the past to hold on to that. We have made it part of our lives


and we are losing that now because it has not been fed into our


schools if, and that has had a big name -- big impact. We are finding


foreign students coming into our music institutions. We do not have


enough home-grown talent. In terms of the Olympics, some people talked


about it bringing the United Kingdom together. Can I ask your


opinion on whether you are British a Scottish? What do you think as we


approach the referendum and a couple of years' time? I am very


proud to be British, very proud to be Scottish and very proud to be


European. I would like to hold on to the Britishness. If I think we


have a wonderful culture that we all share together, we really do.


As a musician, I am seeing that we are really sharing our wonderful


cultures, are Welsh culture, R Irish culture, English culture,


Scottish culture - bringing that in a musical way that is very special


that has influenced me and my profession. I do not want to lose


any of that. I do not want to lose the fact that I am a British person


and very proud of that. Dame Evelyn Glennie.


It is that time of the day when we take time to analyse the top


stories coming up. And this may I am joined by two


members of the newly farmed referendum committee at Holyrood.


The former Conservative leader, Annabel Goldie, and for the SNP,


Stuart Maxwell. Stewart Maxwell, Dame Evelyn


Glennie will not be voting for you. She lives in England, but it


appears she would not be voting yes what she said was that we should


hang on to what we have been called the Social Union, the cultural


aspects the unite the people of these isles. If I think there are


many things on the cultural side, including music, that we share,


that we carry on. What we're talking about here is whether we


carry on the political union. We can carry on the social aspects are


valued by the people of these islands, but in terms of political


decision-making, we should bring about an independent Scotland.


you will carry on to try and win her over? Annabel Goldie, what do


you think what Dame Evelyn Glennie said there. I thought it was a


refreshing reflection on a different part of culture. A


everything that is meaningful to her in her life, she sees is being


completed by being part of a United Kingdom structure. We're supposed


to be talking about what is coming up this week. It will involve


touching on what has happened on -- already. Alex Salmond caught out on


EU legal advice says the Independent on Scotland --


Independent on Sunday. The paper is suggesting that there was some


legal advice. It was not a blank sheet of paper, that Alex Salmond


was told that negotiations would be required on EU membership. What is


the truth of this? There has been a lot of a calling this week and I


think that is unfortunate. It does not help anyone understand what are


complicated and important decisions they have to make. What the truth


is I think is clear - all Government publications and the


First Minister mention that in the interview that started this off,


they go through the local -- proper process. No specific legal advice


was sought on the very specific question of EU membership because


governments cannot publish that kind of information. The you except


that at the very least the impression was given for many


months that the Scottish Government had legal advice, not least up --


because on this programme he said, yes, when he was asked? There is


another 27 words beyond that which was missed out. But the point was a


whole debate over this year has proceeded on the basis that there


was some legal advice. It turns out that Nicola Sturgeon all the needs


as a lord advocate for his position as she can tell us there is no


legal advice. Why did she not do that months ago? We had the


Edinburgh agreement in place. The point is that before you have the


process laid down, agreed by both governments, so we know precisely


what the process will be leading to independence, a legally binding


arrangement, then we can see the context into which the rest of the


UK an independent Scotland would then move forward, you cannot get


legal advice and that question. think his solution to the Edinburgh


agreement as a red herring. If it was that important why did the SNP


delay publishing their findings of the consultation? Alex Salmond


created an impression in the minds of the public they he had legal


advice about Scotland's status as an independent country in the EU.


He must have known that impression was helpful to has cause. What he


did not do was disabuse the public of all we now know what to be


erroneous perception of that there was a vice. He affirmed the


perception there was advice with this decision to go to the quarter


of --... Court of Session. M must have been the most expensive fake


Levi in history. The Ministerial Code is clear - you can never


confirm or deny the existence of legal advice. All governments of


all colours have done exactly the same thing. The Edinburgh agreement


was in place and that was a point at which you could seek the


specific legal advice. She then we asked the officers were there are


none of she had come as an -- or not whether she had permission to


publish that information. With respect, that is rubbish. The


Edinburgh agreement is nothing more than a stage and a process. From


May of last year we knew we would have a referendum. If your


Government was in a position to make that call. The timing was


somewhat in that what we knew we were going to have it. Now whatever


happens in between on the discussions of having the vote is a


matter of profound interest to their Scottish people, including


issues on something as important as membership of a EU, have you got


legal advice on? If let's speak on Trident. Annabel Goldie, should in


the UK Government set down with the Scottish Government and thrash out


how they would cope of Scotland where independent? I think if you


are going to select that aspect then you would have to suggest that


the UK Government should expected to set down and thrash out every


consequence on a lot of independence will stop shouldn't


it? I don't agree with that. There is no room for complacency but I


don't think there was support for independence. Let the Scottish


people have their say and once they have had their say respond to that.


Stewart Maxwell, the problem is that people do not know what it


will look like, an independent Scotland off in terms of Trident?


The SNP and Government have been clear on our position of nuclear


weapons. That is crystal-clear. The Scottish Government has made it


clear if there next year we will have a white paper which will


publish all of the detail laying out the prospect is that we will


fall to. Giving the detail on many of these questions a year in


advance of the votes. That is the time when many of the questions


will be answered. I think it is important we now move on to the


proper debate about the substance of these issues and raise their


game of opposition politicians on the name-calling and Spears.


sentence will stop the SNP leadership as the SNP membership to


Andrew Neil and Isabel Fraser present the latest political news, interviews and debate, including treasury minister Danny Alexander on the economic outlook for the UK. Plus, should benefit payments be capped at two children?

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