28/10/2012 Sunday Politics Scotland


28/10/2012

Andrew Neil and Isabel Fraser present the latest political news, interviews and debate, including treasury minister Danny Alexander on the economic outlook for the UK.


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station in the capital. Gary Glitter was brought out of his

:00:04.:00:08.

home in central London and taken into custody early this morning. He

:00:08.:00:12.

was arrested as part of Operation Yewtree, off the police

:00:12.:00:20.

investigation into the stream of allegations Jimmy Savile and others.

:00:20.:00:27.

A former pop star, has already served position -- prison sentences

:00:27.:00:32.

for a child offences in Britain and Vietnam. His name has also been

:00:32.:00:36.

mentioned in connection with Jimmy Savile. Lord Patten has told a

:00:36.:00:41.

newspaper that the scandal as but the BBC's reputation on the line.

:00:41.:00:47.

The corporation was dedicated to finding out that truth. Labour says

:00:47.:00:52.

the investigation set up by the BBC are not enough. Her we need one

:00:52.:00:57.

overarching enquiry. It should be independent because there are big

:00:57.:01:02.

lessons to be learned here, not just for the BBC, although the

:01:02.:01:10.

epicentre was that the BBC, but elsewhere. The police in --

:01:10.:01:15.

investigation has produced over 300 alleged victims. In the days ahead

:01:15.:01:20.

police are expected to make several more arrests.

:01:20.:01:24.

An independent think-tank is suggesting that a crackdown on gang

:01:24.:01:29.

culture if in a response to last year's riots may have backfired.

:01:29.:01:33.

The Centre for Social Justice claims that in some cases arrests

:01:33.:01:38.

led to more violence. It calls on the authorities to prevent

:01:38.:01:40.

youngsters joining gangs in the first place.

:01:40.:01:45.

A BBC investigation has found some care homes in England that had been

:01:45.:01:48.

awarded a five star ratings by independent companies are failing

:01:48.:01:58.
:01:58.:02:06.

to meet the essential requirements. In the United States, president

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Obama has held a conference call with emergency chutes to print --

:02:10.:02:14.

prepare for one of the biggest arms to hit the eastern seaboard for

:02:14.:02:19.

many years. Hurricane Sandy is that already 1000 kilometres wide and

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after lunch all it is likely to collide with a winter storm from

:02:22.:02:32.
:02:32.:02:32.

the West. State of emergency is in place across most of the East Coast.

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That is all the news for now. There will be more news on BBC One at

:02:38.:02:46.

five past sex. -- 5 Pass six.

:02:46.:02:50.

Good afternoon. Scottish Ministers want more powers to deal with

:02:50.:02:54.

drink-driving. The SNP Government is to cut the limit, but also wants

:02:54.:02:59.

to be able to conduct random testing and bring in tougher

:02:59.:03:04.

measures for young drivers. It is now planning to cut the limit

:03:04.:03:08.

from 80 milligrams of alcohol per 100 millilitres of blood if down to

:03:09.:03:14.

50 milligrams. But SNP Ministers now say that has not gone far

:03:14.:03:17.

enough. The Scottish Justice Secretary has asked Westminster for

:03:17.:03:21.

a further responsibilities which would allow police to carry out

:03:21.:03:24.

random breath testing as well as being able to make penalties for

:03:25.:03:29.

the offence even tougher. And Scottish Ministers also won powers

:03:29.:03:34.

to cut their drink-drive limit for or even further fir Newt a

:03:34.:03:44.

qualified drivers. -- or a newly qualified.

:03:44.:03:48.

The drink-drive limit will be staying as it is an England wells

:03:48.:03:51.

north of the border Scottish Ministers say more action is needed

:03:51.:03:58.

to tackle the problem. The Chief Secretary to the tragedy

:03:58.:04:03.

-- Treasury, Danny Alexander, says the First Minister Alex Salmond as

:04:03.:04:08.

more questions to answer about his conduct over legal advice and

:04:08.:04:13.

Scotland's membership of the European Union. Why was it that he

:04:13.:04:17.

allowed thousands of pounds of taxpayers' money was invested in

:04:17.:04:21.

preparing a court case to prevent him releasing legal advice that

:04:21.:04:28.

turned out do not exist on Scotland's EU membership. There are

:04:28.:04:31.

rules about public finance in this country which means you should not

:04:31.:04:35.

waste taxpayers' money. This is one of the most extraordinary episodes

:04:35.:04:38.

of the most extraordinary episodes we have seen so far. If time for

:04:38.:04:44.

the weather: After a bright start to the weekend yesterday, we are

:04:44.:04:51.

ending on Saddam not. Fairly breezy as well. -- on a damp

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note. Temperature Wise, around nine or ten degrees in the south-west.

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Into the rest of the evening, the rain clears away and showers

:05:05.:05:08.

continue in the north-west. Tonight it should be frost-free. That is

:05:08.:05:18.
:05:18.:05:25.

the forecast for now. It is back to The NHS needs to make millions of

:05:25.:05:29.

pounds of savings. Audit Scotland says the health service needs to

:05:29.:05:34.

focus on long-term planning, and the way its finances are organised

:05:34.:05:38.

makes that difficult. After years of growth the health

:05:38.:05:43.

service is facing a leaner times. The NHS must save �270 million this

:05:43.:05:49.

year, nearly 50 million less than last year it still challenging. It

:05:49.:05:56.

is a sign NHS Scotland is not in a half a % rise in energy prices cost

:05:57.:06:00.

�2 million for the largest Health Board, Greater Glasgow and Clyde.

:06:00.:06:06.

Even so, Audit Scotland van or Health Board broke even in the

:06:06.:06:11.

financial year 2011-12. But the report sheds light on how it that

:06:11.:06:15.

was done and says the focus on balancing the books every year may

:06:15.:06:21.

skew priorities. The risk for the short term is that changes are

:06:21.:06:26.

really needed to meet the challenges available in the future

:06:26.:06:31.

and the demographic changes we know are coming can be squeezed out. The

:06:31.:06:35.

annual focus can make the changes harder. We know that in order to

:06:35.:06:40.

break even each year, some wards were having to move money across

:06:40.:06:44.

the system. Others were relying on savings and a handful relied on

:06:44.:06:48.

extra support from the Scottish Government. We think it would

:06:48.:06:52.

increase transparency that was made more apparent in the accounts.

:06:52.:06:54.

Scottish health boards say they will meet their targets this year

:06:54.:06:59.

but said that may become harder to achieve. This expert in public

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finance degrees and highlights a backlog in building and equipment

:07:03.:07:09.

maintenance that is built up to a estimated billions of pounds.

:07:09.:07:16.

dangers of efficiency savings are the huge amount of bad luck

:07:16.:07:19.

expenditure on maintenance. There are huge budgetary pressures that

:07:19.:07:23.

will not go away. The short-term pressures are there and exist so

:07:23.:07:27.

you can say it is a nice idea over the long term but the pressures on

:07:27.:07:33.

the health boards are on the short term. At Holyrood the sometimes to

:07:33.:07:39.

polarised debate about health spending... The health budget is

:07:39.:07:44.

predicted to decline in real terms for the next three years at the

:07:44.:07:47.

Scottish Government maintains the Budget is going up and that

:07:47.:07:54.

investments are taking place to help patient care. It says there is

:07:54.:08:00.

currently a realistic increase in spending. If you spend any time

:08:00.:08:06.

with nurses, with the ambulance service, with patients themselves,

:08:06.:08:13.

you will hear stories of the NHS scribbling. -- Sproat -- struggling.

:08:13.:08:17.

The NHS staff do a great job but they cannot keep doing it with

:08:17.:08:21.

fewer resources and increased demand. If you look at the number

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of people treated by the NHS every year, if you look at the waiting

:08:26.:08:30.

times for performance, the improved treatments, the number of

:08:30.:08:34.

operations we are doing, all of that is performing far better than

:08:34.:08:39.

it has ever done, so to say that the National Health Service in any

:08:40.:08:44.

way is in any kind of crisis is total nonsense. There are

:08:44.:08:48.

challenges that we are rising to the challenges. All parties

:08:48.:08:52.

recognise times are tough. The question is how best to cope and

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the answer really matters. End your health spending of �11.5 billion --

:08:58.:09:03.

annual health spending, is about a third of the entire Scottish budget.

:09:03.:09:07.

With me is Theresa Fyffe, the Scottish director of the Royal

:09:07.:09:11.

College of Nursing, and Ian Mullen, the former chair of NHS Forth

:09:11.:09:17.

Valley. Theresa Fyffe, two characterisations we heard there

:09:17.:09:20.

from the Scottish Government and the Labour Party. One saying there

:09:20.:09:24.

is no crisis, another saying this is an alarm call. What you think?

:09:24.:09:29.

The first thing we need to do is acknowledge that the staff, doctors,

:09:29.:09:32.

nurses, managers who are delivering good health outcomes for patients,

:09:33.:09:37.

but they're doing that against a backdrop of increasing financial

:09:37.:09:43.

restraints and what the NHS board are doing to balance the books are

:09:43.:09:50.

not sustainable. The what way? Things like keeping a vacancy open

:09:50.:09:55.

for a number of months, or trying to reduce the workforce. Nurses may

:09:55.:09:59.

be having to continue to provide the same service with less staff

:09:59.:10:03.

and less resources. That cannot continue because that has an impact

:10:03.:10:07.

on the well-being and stress of those staff. And this is a result

:10:07.:10:12.

of the way that the budgets are run on an annual basis, that there is

:10:12.:10:15.

not enough thought to the long term? When you are running annually

:10:15.:10:18.

and you have a savings target to meet you have to find those savings

:10:18.:10:22.

and they tend to be on a short-term basis. What the hell sports are

:10:22.:10:26.

struggling to do, there's some have done that, is fined and release the

:10:26.:10:30.

money to be able to do a significance service redesigned

:10:30.:10:34.

that might bring in the savings they require, so short term, it

:10:34.:10:38.

does not allow that approach to happen. Ian Mullen, you have done

:10:38.:10:41.

it. You have been in charge of his money and had to wrestle with these

:10:41.:10:47.

problems. Is it difficult? course, but I think auditors always

:10:47.:10:52.

look at a very small part of any system and examine it, and that is

:10:52.:10:56.

what Audit Scotland have done in this particular case. They have

:10:56.:11:00.

looked at the financial performance of the NHS and they have not looked

:11:00.:11:02.

at the big picture because that was not their role here, and what they

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have said is that three of the health board's required additional

:11:06.:11:10.

financial support, which is repayable and that financial

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support was based on some quite specific problems for those three

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boards. But they were unhappy people did not know about that.

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They have to uncover it, basically. I think... I think anyone reading

:11:25.:11:28.

the annual accounts of those three health boards would see that they

:11:28.:11:32.

had support. What they would not have seen was the detail of that

:11:32.:11:36.

and that is precisely what Audit Scotland have done. But is also

:11:36.:11:40.

important to remember that there were other -- and nine other votes

:11:40.:11:48.

which produced services, so overall, NHS Scotland break even. -- nine

:11:48.:11:55.

other boards. In doing that it is also important to realise that in

:11:55.:12:00.

achieving that breaking point, the health service has continued to

:12:00.:12:03.

provide a very high quality of service. When I was appointed ten

:12:03.:12:09.

years ago as an NHS chair, people were waiting two-and-a-half years

:12:09.:12:14.

for hip replacements, for example. Now it is nine weeks, and that is

:12:14.:12:18.

still being achieved under this financial regime. Sure, but do you,

:12:18.:12:23.

for Theresa Fyffe, think we have yet had an honest debate about how

:12:23.:12:27.

we're going to continue to afford this level of care? I do not think

:12:27.:12:31.

so. I understand what Ian is saying which is why I said at the

:12:31.:12:34.

beginning that the performance of the NHS in Scotland has been very

:12:34.:12:39.

good. But the public has to understand we will have financial

:12:39.:12:43.

constraints that will increase and if we're not able to demonstrate

:12:43.:12:46.

where the shift of funding in the system is, that transparency about

:12:46.:12:49.

where money is being used, where it goes, what is being spent on in

:12:49.:12:53.

health, the public will not understand that there is actually

:12:53.:12:59.

choice and perhaps the toughest choices in the future. By u talking

:12:59.:13:04.

about -- are you talking about big ticket items, flagship policies?

:13:04.:13:08.

believe so. The public at the moment might say, for example,

:13:08.:13:13.

there has been the recent debate about three prescriptions, whether

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we can have for theirs. You are saying we cannot? I am not saying

:13:19.:13:27.

so at all. -- about whether we can afford those. We are concerned that

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the efficiency and productivity that can be delivered in the health

:13:29.:13:33.

service, already much has been done about that, but when you try, for

:13:33.:13:37.

example, to find funding for a new innovation, for example, in the

:13:37.:13:43.

Western Isles I have brought in the use of digital pence. -- has a 35 %

:13:43.:13:51.

productivity. In a nutshell. They give the ability to electronically

:13:51.:13:57.

collect data. The communities have nurses that are able to collect

:13:57.:14:02.

that data. We cannot get the funding for that and we do not know

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why it is not available because it did not transparent. Ian, is the

:14:06.:14:13.

problem not a tussle between the short and long term? I do not

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except to research's point that the public do not face -- understand

:14:20.:14:23.

financial restraint. Perhaps they do not understand that it means

:14:23.:14:28.

that at some point something has to give? Actually, I bear the scars of

:14:28.:14:33.

dozens of public meetings and when we have gone and discussed the

:14:33.:14:37.

services we were going to provide and how we wanted to change, and it

:14:37.:14:42.

may be simple to have the discussion with the public about

:14:42.:14:47.

changing things like reducing tattoo removal and so forth, but

:14:47.:14:52.

when you start to talk about reducing expensive services such as

:14:52.:14:56.

infertility, there was a real problem, so I am all for being as

:14:56.:15:00.

open as possible to the public. I think that is very important that I

:15:00.:15:03.

do go back to the fact that the health service is still currently

:15:03.:15:07.

providing a range of high quality services, even in the current

:15:07.:15:11.

financial situation. I think you both agree on at any weight. Thank

:15:11.:15:19.

you Bose very much indeed. Music, according to one of

:15:19.:15:23.

Scotland's most talented performers, is like daily medicine. Dame Evelyn

:15:23.:15:28.

Glennie made her name as a virtuoso percussionist, a superb achievement

:15:28.:15:33.

for anyone, all the more remarkable considering she is profoundly deaf.

:15:33.:15:37.

Now after her stunning role in the opening ceremony at the London

:15:37.:15:43.

Olympics, she is performing a new show in Glasgow and banging the

:15:43.:15:44.

drum for musical education in schools.

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On the threshold a factory in her native North East, Evelyn Glenlee

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delights the audience. -- Dame Evelyn Glennie. These amazing

:15:56.:16:00.

talent was encouraged by supportive teachers at school in Aberdeenshire

:16:00.:16:05.

and that London Royal Academy of Music. She says she feels music as

:16:05.:16:08.

vibrations in the air and her deafness does not really affect her

:16:08.:16:13.

life very much. Her contribution to the UK music scene was recognised

:16:13.:16:23.
:16:23.:16:27.

in this performance at the London Dame Evelyn Glennie is in Glasgow

:16:27.:16:32.

this weekend performing at the Tramway with dancers. But would her

:16:32.:16:39.

career have flourished in today's education system? A recent study of

:16:39.:16:41.

5,000 pupils by Strathclyde University found that not one with

:16:42.:16:45.

a physical disability was being taught how to play a musical

:16:45.:16:50.

instrument. Three at a four councils also charge for music

:16:50.:16:53.

lessons and a report claims deprived children are missing out

:16:53.:16:58.

on the chance to become the next Dame Evelyn Glennie.

:16:58.:17:03.

I caught up with Dame Evelyn Glennie yesterday and she began by

:17:03.:17:06.

explaining to me how vital her own education was to her musical

:17:06.:17:11.

development. People just sang and played whatever instruments

:17:11.:17:18.

happened to be in the House. We were not looking for the next X

:17:18.:17:23.

Factor winner or something. Music was an extension to a family

:17:23.:17:27.

environment. Families are very fragmented nowadays and it is hard

:17:27.:17:35.

to get that seamless line between a family life and education. And it

:17:35.:17:40.

really was the case where families knew what was going on in schools

:17:40.:17:45.

and I really felt that, and the staff were able to feed the

:17:45.:17:51.

information and in a way to almost be able to give a more bespoke

:17:51.:17:57.

education for individuals. Now it is very hard to do that when you

:17:57.:18:02.

have the mother here and the father there and goodness knows, the

:18:02.:18:06.

fragmented structure. It is far more difficult to do that. So it is

:18:06.:18:09.

a challenge for the current education system to provide the

:18:09.:18:14.

kind of support that you had in a different environment? I think that

:18:14.:18:17.

is true, coupled with the fact that we have just exploded with

:18:17.:18:21.

technology and so on and although there is more communication that

:18:21.:18:25.

happens, we can all communicate with each other far more quickly

:18:25.:18:30.

and more easily than actually ever before, and in a way we are all

:18:30.:18:33.

experiencing music more than we have ever done before, but

:18:33.:18:37.

everything is in a much more isolated way. And in a way, there

:18:37.:18:44.

is also this feeling of we expect something to happen. That has done

:18:44.:18:49.

something to us. I feel we have lost the journey of being able to

:18:49.:18:53.

achieve something. And I feel this is something that is affecting our

:18:53.:18:59.

education system, the way that the teachers interact with pupils. It

:18:59.:19:04.

is really listening and finding out what is it that makes that

:19:04.:19:08.

individual tick. So you would say you got good support at school but

:19:08.:19:14.

I suppose it is suffering now due to cuts. How important you think it

:19:14.:19:18.

is to make sure that all children at are included when it comes to

:19:18.:19:24.

the arts in school? It is vital. For me there is no debate on this.

:19:24.:19:29.

It is absolutely crucial. The one thing about Alan academy, the

:19:29.:19:33.

school are Renter as a secondary school, was that it was a former

:19:33.:19:37.

integrated school. You had hearing impaired people, sight impaired

:19:37.:19:42.

people, people with all sorts of challenges. And the motto, as it

:19:42.:19:47.

were, are the headmaster, and all of the staff menders -- members,

:19:47.:19:52.

was that every pupil belonged to every single department of that

:19:52.:19:55.

school and I remember several youngsters being part of the

:19:55.:20:00.

musical department, including me, and I was accepted like any other

:20:00.:20:06.

child of a hat. And that psychologically was so important,

:20:06.:20:12.

and we see this time and time again. If we take something like Japanese

:20:12.:20:20.

music and we see the power of that, with, for example, adults who have

:20:20.:20:24.

experienced brain damage or are the challenges in their lives, there is

:20:24.:20:28.

no compromise musically. This is something that, for example,

:20:28.:20:31.

Strathclyde University has really explored, and is happening up and

:20:31.:20:35.

down the country. Do not leave it too late for something to happen.

:20:35.:20:39.

We need to feed the youngsters immediately and I truly mean

:20:39.:20:43.

immediately. But we also need to support the families as well, to

:20:43.:20:47.

give the families that understanding of why music is so

:20:47.:20:57.
:20:57.:21:03.

important and the participation is I would also like to talk about you

:21:03.:21:10.

or involvement in the Olympics? wanted to depict the industrial

:21:10.:21:15.

revolution. I was very happy an honour to be involved with this.

:21:15.:21:19.

That was a terrific example of teamwork and by that I mean

:21:19.:21:23.

teamwork from the whole technical crew working behind the scenes. But

:21:23.:21:28.

also the fact that 99% of the people we saw perform off, and

:21:28.:21:33.

certainly drumming in my part, where volunteers. People who had

:21:33.:21:39.

never picked up a pair of drumsticks before. I cannot tell

:21:39.:21:44.

you the impact that that has had on people. In a way we are seeing this

:21:44.:21:49.

with the wonderful work that Gareth Malone is doing with the workplace

:21:49.:21:53.

choirs and different environments. We are seeing the power of music in

:21:53.:21:59.

that kind of way. What this country, the British Isles has done, is

:21:59.:22:05.

really, we have got such richness and our culture, traditional

:22:05.:22:12.

culture, music and dance and art and so on, we have been able to do

:22:12.:22:17.

-- in the past to hold on to that. We have made it part of our lives

:22:17.:22:21.

and we are losing that now because it has not been fed into our

:22:21.:22:28.

schools if, and that has had a big name -- big impact. We are finding

:22:29.:22:36.

foreign students coming into our music institutions. We do not have

:22:36.:22:42.

enough home-grown talent. In terms of the Olympics, some people talked

:22:42.:22:46.

about it bringing the United Kingdom together. Can I ask your

:22:46.:22:52.

opinion on whether you are British a Scottish? What do you think as we

:22:52.:22:56.

approach the referendum and a couple of years' time? I am very

:22:56.:23:01.

proud to be British, very proud to be Scottish and very proud to be

:23:01.:23:06.

European. I would like to hold on to the Britishness. If I think we

:23:06.:23:11.

have a wonderful culture that we all share together, we really do.

:23:11.:23:17.

As a musician, I am seeing that we are really sharing our wonderful

:23:17.:23:22.

cultures, are Welsh culture, R Irish culture, English culture,

:23:22.:23:27.

Scottish culture - bringing that in a musical way that is very special

:23:27.:23:32.

that has influenced me and my profession. I do not want to lose

:23:32.:23:36.

any of that. I do not want to lose the fact that I am a British person

:23:36.:23:39.

and very proud of that. Dame Evelyn Glennie.

:23:39.:23:44.

It is that time of the day when we take time to analyse the top

:23:45.:23:52.

stories coming up. And this may I am joined by two

:23:52.:23:56.

members of the newly farmed referendum committee at Holyrood.

:23:56.:24:00.

The former Conservative leader, Annabel Goldie, and for the SNP,

:24:00.:24:04.

Stuart Maxwell. Stewart Maxwell, Dame Evelyn

:24:04.:24:09.

Glennie will not be voting for you. She lives in England, but it

:24:09.:24:13.

appears she would not be voting yes what she said was that we should

:24:13.:24:18.

hang on to what we have been called the Social Union, the cultural

:24:18.:24:22.

aspects the unite the people of these isles. If I think there are

:24:22.:24:27.

many things on the cultural side, including music, that we share,

:24:27.:24:33.

that we carry on. What we're talking about here is whether we

:24:33.:24:37.

carry on the political union. We can carry on the social aspects are

:24:37.:24:41.

valued by the people of these islands, but in terms of political

:24:41.:24:45.

decision-making, we should bring about an independent Scotland.

:24:45.:24:51.

you will carry on to try and win her over? Annabel Goldie, what do

:24:51.:24:55.

you think what Dame Evelyn Glennie said there. I thought it was a

:24:55.:25:04.

refreshing reflection on a different part of culture. A

:25:04.:25:10.

everything that is meaningful to her in her life, she sees is being

:25:10.:25:14.

completed by being part of a United Kingdom structure. We're supposed

:25:14.:25:20.

to be talking about what is coming up this week. It will involve

:25:20.:25:28.

touching on what has happened on -- already. Alex Salmond caught out on

:25:28.:25:33.

EU legal advice says the Independent on Scotland --

:25:33.:25:37.

Independent on Sunday. The paper is suggesting that there was some

:25:37.:25:43.

legal advice. It was not a blank sheet of paper, that Alex Salmond

:25:43.:25:48.

was told that negotiations would be required on EU membership. What is

:25:48.:25:53.

the truth of this? There has been a lot of a calling this week and I

:25:54.:25:59.

think that is unfortunate. It does not help anyone understand what are

:25:59.:26:03.

complicated and important decisions they have to make. What the truth

:26:03.:26:07.

is I think is clear - all Government publications and the

:26:07.:26:11.

First Minister mention that in the interview that started this off,

:26:11.:26:19.

they go through the local -- proper process. No specific legal advice

:26:19.:26:24.

was sought on the very specific question of EU membership because

:26:24.:26:28.

governments cannot publish that kind of information. The you except

:26:28.:26:32.

that at the very least the impression was given for many

:26:32.:26:36.

months that the Scottish Government had legal advice, not least up --

:26:36.:26:46.

because on this programme he said, yes, when he was asked? There is

:26:46.:26:50.

another 27 words beyond that which was missed out. But the point was a

:26:51.:26:54.

whole debate over this year has proceeded on the basis that there

:26:54.:26:59.

was some legal advice. It turns out that Nicola Sturgeon all the needs

:26:59.:27:03.

as a lord advocate for his position as she can tell us there is no

:27:03.:27:07.

legal advice. Why did she not do that months ago? We had the

:27:07.:27:12.

Edinburgh agreement in place. The point is that before you have the

:27:12.:27:16.

process laid down, agreed by both governments, so we know precisely

:27:16.:27:21.

what the process will be leading to independence, a legally binding

:27:21.:27:25.

arrangement, then we can see the context into which the rest of the

:27:25.:27:29.

UK an independent Scotland would then move forward, you cannot get

:27:29.:27:36.

legal advice and that question. think his solution to the Edinburgh

:27:36.:27:41.

agreement as a red herring. If it was that important why did the SNP

:27:41.:27:48.

delay publishing their findings of the consultation? Alex Salmond

:27:48.:27:52.

created an impression in the minds of the public they he had legal

:27:52.:27:58.

advice about Scotland's status as an independent country in the EU.

:27:58.:28:03.

He must have known that impression was helpful to has cause. What he

:28:03.:28:09.

did not do was disabuse the public of all we now know what to be

:28:09.:28:13.

erroneous perception of that there was a vice. He affirmed the

:28:13.:28:22.

perception there was advice with this decision to go to the quarter

:28:22.:28:32.
:28:32.:28:34.

of --... Court of Session. M must have been the most expensive fake

:28:34.:28:40.

Levi in history. The Ministerial Code is clear - you can never

:28:40.:28:44.

confirm or deny the existence of legal advice. All governments of

:28:44.:28:52.

all colours have done exactly the same thing. The Edinburgh agreement

:28:52.:28:56.

was in place and that was a point at which you could seek the

:28:56.:29:01.

specific legal advice. She then we asked the officers were there are

:29:01.:29:09.

none of she had come as an -- or not whether she had permission to

:29:09.:29:13.

publish that information. With respect, that is rubbish. The

:29:13.:29:18.

Edinburgh agreement is nothing more than a stage and a process. From

:29:18.:29:21.

May of last year we knew we would have a referendum. If your

:29:21.:29:26.

Government was in a position to make that call. The timing was

:29:26.:29:29.

somewhat in that what we knew we were going to have it. Now whatever

:29:29.:29:33.

happens in between on the discussions of having the vote is a

:29:33.:29:36.

matter of profound interest to their Scottish people, including

:29:36.:29:42.

issues on something as important as membership of a EU, have you got

:29:42.:29:50.

legal advice on? If let's speak on Trident. Annabel Goldie, should in

:29:50.:29:53.

the UK Government set down with the Scottish Government and thrash out

:29:53.:30:00.

how they would cope of Scotland where independent? I think if you

:30:00.:30:03.

are going to select that aspect then you would have to suggest that

:30:03.:30:10.

the UK Government should expected to set down and thrash out every

:30:10.:30:13.

consequence on a lot of independence will stop shouldn't

:30:13.:30:19.

it? I don't agree with that. There is no room for complacency but I

:30:19.:30:25.

don't think there was support for independence. Let the Scottish

:30:25.:30:30.

people have their say and once they have had their say respond to that.

:30:30.:30:35.

Stewart Maxwell, the problem is that people do not know what it

:30:35.:30:40.

will look like, an independent Scotland off in terms of Trident?

:30:40.:30:45.

The SNP and Government have been clear on our position of nuclear

:30:45.:30:49.

weapons. That is crystal-clear. The Scottish Government has made it

:30:49.:30:54.

clear if there next year we will have a white paper which will

:30:54.:30:58.

publish all of the detail laying out the prospect is that we will

:30:58.:31:04.

fall to. Giving the detail on many of these questions a year in

:31:04.:31:07.

advance of the votes. That is the time when many of the questions

:31:07.:31:13.

will be answered. I think it is important we now move on to the

:31:13.:31:18.

proper debate about the substance of these issues and raise their

:31:18.:31:25.

game of opposition politicians on the name-calling and Spears.

:31:25.:31:32.

sentence will stop the SNP leadership as the SNP membership to

:31:32.:31:38.

Andrew Neil and Isabel Fraser present the latest political news, interviews and debate, including treasury minister Danny Alexander on the economic outlook for the UK. Plus, should benefit payments be capped at two children?


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