04/11/2012 Sunday Politics Scotland


04/11/2012

Andrew Neil and Isabel Fraser with the latest political news, interviews and debate. Including UKIP leader Nigel Farage, and David Willetts on Lord Heseltine's growth plan.


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Morning folks. Welcome to the Sunday Politics. Could Britain

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thrive and prosper outside the European Union? Cabinet Minister

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Iain Duncan Smith's gave every impression this morning that Yes We

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Can! We'll ask Business Minster David Willetts what he makes of

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that. It's our top story. They're flying high in the polls

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and - they say - winning the arguments on Europe, but can the UK

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Independence Party really stand up to the scrutiny that comes with

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success? Leader Nigel Farage joins us for the Sunday Interview.

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Which of these two men would you like to see in the White House?

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With the US election three days away Diane Abbott and Dan Hannan go

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head to head on whether Obama or Romney would be better for Britain.

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And coming up here in Scotland: Is it time for a radical rethink of

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Scotland's drug abuse strategy - as more people are becoming addicts

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Apology for the loss of subtitles for 1842 seconds

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If you're worried about the debt you should be worried about Mitt

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Romney. How does he make the deficits good? This is why the

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Washington Post and be New York Times refused to endorse them.

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Their economic plans do not add up. He wants massive unfunded tax cuts.

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He wants an increase in its defence spending. The USA is already in

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debt to the tune of 14 trillion. you look at the plan, it is a plan.

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We know that with Barack Obama the deficit will draw. There is the

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certainty of continued debt. people in Florida thought the plan

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was good, Mitt Romney would have gone down. Nobody is going to

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return to a balanced budget within one turn, but with Mitt Romney we

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have somebody who will try. Even Barack Obama's foreign policy is

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alien to British values. There has been a rise in drones over Pakistan.

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There is no progress in Middle East peace. I regret the use of drones.

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But he has taken America out of a rut -- out of Iraq. Would it be a

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return it to Bouch? He implies he is prepared to attack Iran. He

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knows nothing about Britain or Europe. He said there was a

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cultural component in the success of his real compared to the rest of

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the region. He had no kind words. That is not the same as despising

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the Palestinians. He said they did not want peace. Under both US

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presidents there will be forced on the table as an option as there was

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in Libya. I was not big on the Iraq war or the Afghanistan war. But to

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say that they should not be any possibility of taking any kind of

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action is not responsible. action is on the Pacific Rim. He

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does not care about Europe and the UK. Barack Obama's foreign policy

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is cheaper. Mitt Romney is more likely to bomb Iran. The who will

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win? Barack Obama. If turnout is right it will be Barack Obama.

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Therefore I will put my money on Good morning.

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As Holyrood prepares to debate the Scottish governments drugs strategy

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and will be finding out if this residential rehab centre for

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addicts is only half full. Alex Salmond is set to become the

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longest serving First Minister of Scotland. How has he done?

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And more on the race to the White House. Does the Trident debate give

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Holyrood and presented focus in Washington.

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An emergency summit is to be held next month to discover why

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occupancy rates at Scotland's residential drug treatment centres

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are sold. With Holyrood debating the drug strategy this week one

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addiction expert says the residential option is dying off in

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Scotland. There is a bright future for one

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recovering drug addict. majority of my peer group are doing

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well. Without this project I do not know where I would be. This man it

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spent 20 years on methadone until his spell in residential rehab.

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More than 24,000 people are given methadone in Scotland. The

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programme is under review after deaths linked to methadone. The

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Liberal Democrats say the programme should not be used as a scapegoat

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for what is a complex issue. Labour say methadone is not working. The

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Conservatives are calling for more residential sectors.

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There are some incredible stories of recovery, but there is a warning

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that places like this may not survive in the long term in

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Scotland. The residential sector is dying.

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need to know whether we want it to die. When we compare like with like,

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residential treatment is no more expensive than other forms of

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treatment. Since last year residential treatment centres have

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been reporting low levels of occupancy. In Inverness it stands

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at 40 %. Banner measures to some it is being held next month to find

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out why people are not being repaired. The policy is there.

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There is a grassroots momentum. There may be something in the

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middle blocking it. It may not be one thing or one person. It may be

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101 different things. Although supporters of residential rehab I

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knew it is cost-effective there are equally strong arguments about cost

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on the other side and also on the benefits of methadone. It decreases

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the death-rate in those were prescribed it at least five or six

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cold. It decreases drug abuse and crime. It might be possible to get

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drug three and even mentally healthy while staying in a country

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house somewhere, but they have to come back, usually to the council

:39:04.:39:11.

estate where they live. A at a debate about treatment continues

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their race is on to find effective strategies to help the 65,000

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people struggling with drug addiction.

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Joining me now in the studio are Ruth Davidson and William Rennie.

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Also joining the is Mark McDonald. Mike McDonald, and you will be one

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of the key speakers in the debate. What is the policy of the

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government on residential care? Very charitable to describe me as a

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key speaker. Residential rehab has a role to play as part of the

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bigotry that agenda. The figures that are being shown to me show

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that there are low levels of waiting list for people who need

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residential rehab. The issue is about need. It is around clinical

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assessment of the needs of the individual. No two individuals are

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the same when it comes to addiction and the need for rehabilitation. So

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be to categorise residential rehab as a suitable for all addicts would

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be a mistake. We have to offer a package of measures. Given that

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there is a residential care package, it all comes as one, it seems that

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from the numbers that we have discovered in a report, it has not

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been used as widely as it was being used five years ago. Is that a

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deliberate policy? Have you decided it is less effective than other

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methods of treatment? What you need to do is offer a range of different

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treatments, dependent on the needs of the individual. For some people

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residential rehabilitation will be the most suitable option. You

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package was talking about looking further ahead to a sum at which

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will discuss these matters. I am sure that the government and all

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politicians will be taking a keen interest to see what the outcome of

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the sum that is. 40 % occupancy end summer residential rehabilitation

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centres. As that concern you? it does. The one that has featured

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in the package there is in my area of Glasgow. That is at 50 %. There

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is a big problem in Glasgow. This is only have the story. You pack is

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did not say that the number of rehab centres has been reduced to

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23 since the new drug strategy for Scotland came in. Fewer beds and

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still in some cases on they have of them are being filled. We have to

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find out what the blockage is. People are not get any opportunity

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to go in there. There seems to be a specific problem with referrals

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into the system, rather than a specific policy decision, even

:42:05.:42:09.

accepting what you have said about the fall in numbers. If you are to

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have a sophisticated response to this what should be done? It should

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be based on need. Budgets are tighter. Residential care is much

:42:20.:42:27.

more expensive. I am sure that is a factor in commiseration. --

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consideration. 1st May experts said that it is not this sally Moore

:42:33.:42:43.
:42:43.:42:46.

expensive. -- it is not Mrs Sally more expensive. -- are not more

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expensive. You need to have the support mechanisms. You have now

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got things like recovery cafes which create a support network for

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people to get into. They can extract themselves from their

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environment that slip into drugs. It is not for politicians to decide

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what kind of care people should get. It should be left that to the

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health professionals. They work with this day in and day out.

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Politicians do not know how to deal with the decisions. Leave it to the

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health professionals. Just to clarify the policy, I know that you

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say it is dependent on the individual and that would be

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reflected in how the doctors allocate places and what a treat at

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the pink is appropriate, but if the number of residential

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rehabilitation unit has closed down and there is this ongoing under

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occupancy and the number of drug users is increasing and the number

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of drug death is increasing, this would seem to suggest that the

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policy is dead. We have the lowest level of drug users and the

:44:03.:44:08.

population for one decade. It is constantly in decline. We have the

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lowest numbers among its young people using drugs for one decade.

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That is the backdrop to which the debate should be framed. You have

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to profile the services that should be offered. I think William Rennie

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and aye are clear on this. It is about need. The point is about

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clinicians taking the best decisions on behalf of the

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individuals. If you ask clinicians what people need they will take the

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decision that is most appropriate for the individual. Just to clarify

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the statistics. The estimated number of individuals with a drug

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problem in Scotland A's 59,000, compared with 55,000 in 2006. That

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is an estimated increase of 4,300 individuals since 2006. There is a

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particular problem with the number of women regarding drug fatalities.

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:45:23.:45:23.

That figure has jumped to 117 % increase. It shows that methadone

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is reasonably successful. It is quite effective at keeping people

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alive and healthy. That is part of the reason why these numbers have

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changed. That is the reality. you look at the methadone programme

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and leaving aside the cost, even though it is a huge cost, there is

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also the cost in lives. More people now died taking methadone then be

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to taking heroin. It cost lives. When the drug strategy was brought

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:45:59.:46:02.

in, drug deaths was cited as one of the reasons. That was one of the

:46:02.:46:09.

reasons why needed strategy to work. Look at the soaring numbers. The

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number has gone up. One of the reasons that we were so supportive

:46:14.:46:17.

of the drug strategy was to be wanted treatment to be part of a

:46:17.:46:23.

cure so that people could be help of long term at use. Met the don't

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can stabilised people's lives, but some people need to be put on a

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reducing does so that they do not spend 20 years on it. A I am not

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suggesting we should not have different approaches. But you said

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it was a simplistic approach. problem with what Ruth Davidson is

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saying is that she is saying that methadone as part of the problem.

:46:50.:47:00.

But the good that she quotes -- the figures that she courts include

:47:00.:47:10.
:47:10.:47:10.

other drugs. What about the tone of the debate? The Daily record

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campaign was deplorable. It was unacceptable. Methadone has changed

:47:15.:47:19.

the lives of drug users dramatically. Russia does not have

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the programme that Scotland has got. HIV rates among subjecting drug

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users in the Russia is 35 %. It is below five % year. That is

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staggering. We should not blame methadone for that problem. This

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overall strategy and it was introduced have wide support. Will

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that support hold or does this strategy you require to be refined?

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The support is there for the strategy. The comments of Ruth

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Davidson are over the top. We do not want to see people dying as a

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result of drug use whatever drug that may be, but we are talking

:48:02.:48:08.

about less than one-fifth of drug users in treatment or on prescribed

:48:08.:48:14.

drugs. There is a big picture out there. To focus the debate so

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narrowly on to the use of methadone misses the bigger picture. I would

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hope that the Scottish Conservatives when they come to the

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debate will have something more to say that simply bashing the

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methadone programme. Do you accept that the bigger picture includes

:48:32.:48:36.

deprivation, poverty, lack of job opportunity in many of the

:48:36.:48:41.

communities? Absolutely. There are a range of different factors that

:48:41.:48:46.

affect an individual becoming a drug user. One of the. It was made

:48:46.:48:52.

earlier during the discussion was around support. I have met a number

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of organisations who are supporting families to enable them to support

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the individual because one of the worst things that can happen is if

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the individual loses their ties to the family. We need to look at it

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as our whole strategy. We need to look at how are families and others

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can play a role in the support of the individual. And you'll have

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:49:27.:49:31.

Alex Salmond will soon become the longest serving First Minister. How

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has he done? We have been looking back. The modern Scottish

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Parliament has seen four first ministers.

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Death took Donald Stewart, a so- called middle over office removed

:49:46.:49:52.

Henry McLeish. Defeat did for Jack McConnell, but Alex Salmond goes on.

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This is him arriving at this week's First Minister's Questions, a

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familiar routine five years after he first got the job. He often

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starts conversations with advises asking, are we winning? In recent

:50:08.:50:14.

years, the answer has been yes, but sometimes only just. The 2007

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elections saw Mr Salmond to beat Labour by a slim margin, just one

:50:19.:50:25.

seat, but it was enough. I heard a rumour. I think we won the

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election! I think the election of Alex Salmond as the first SNP First

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Minister of Scotland was significant, because until then

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they were just an oppositional party, marginal to British politics

:50:40.:50:44.

and devolution. Even after devolution, it took a number of

:50:44.:50:50.

years before the SNP were fit to govern. One of his first challenges

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was winning the Commonwealth Games for Glasgow. He lobbied delegates

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and voters. It was a formula which would deliver him the biggest

:50:59.:51:03.

victory of his political career four years later. I heard another

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rebuff. We have won another election! It certainly was an

:51:10.:51:13.

endorsement of Alex Salmond, but also the team that he had built

:51:13.:51:17.

around him. That is one of his skills, the teams he built around

:51:17.:51:21.

him. It was about his vision for the future. His days as First

:51:21.:51:24.

Minister have not been uncontroversial, not least the

:51:24.:51:27.

release of the Lockerbie bomber. The last fortnight has probably

:51:27.:51:34.

been his worst as a row has reached over EU legal advice. But the

:51:34.:51:38.

politician remains personally popular. He is doing extremely well

:51:38.:51:45.

by any yardstick. Only in recent times could Tony Blair in his

:51:45.:51:51.

heyday have had ratings which exceed where Sam and -- Alex

:51:51.:51:59.

Salmond is. Alex Salmond is more popular. It is no coincidence that

:51:59.:52:05.

support for independence is going down, support for the SNP is going

:52:05.:52:08.

down, and satisfaction with the First Minister is going down, and

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that is all happening at the same time. And that is tied up with the

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referendum. Alex Salmond's place in Scottish history does but depend on

:52:16.:52:20.

the length of his service as First Minister. Delivering the referendum

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guarantees he will be remembered. His next challenge will be winning

:52:24.:52:30.

that vote. Victory, and he will be in the job for many more years to

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come. Defeat, and his time as First Minister it may be more limited.

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With me now is Murray Ritchie, the longest serving Scottish Political

:52:40.:52:45.

Editor of the Herald. That itself deserves an award! And in an hour

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and the studio, Henry McLeish, former Labour First Minister.

:52:52.:52:56.

If you look at Alex Salmond's personal journey, he has

:52:56.:53:01.

fundamentally changed personal positions on NATO, most recently,

:53:01.:53:07.

on the monarchy, on Stirling, yet he has always maintained his social

:53:07.:53:11.

justice position. What does that tell us? He is obviously the major

:53:11.:53:18.

figure in Scottish politics by a mile row. He has changed his

:53:18.:53:22.

position of all the parties on major issues. If you look now at

:53:22.:53:32.
:53:32.:53:36.

the Labour Party, their attitude on Trident has changed. Johann Lamont

:53:36.:53:43.

has embraced Trident now, and that is a weapon in store for the SNP.

:53:43.:53:47.

The Tories, David Cameron has said that if we reject independence,

:53:47.:53:51.

there will be a new constitutional settlement for Scotland, which is

:53:51.:53:55.

new. The Tories have not said that for a while. The last time they

:53:55.:54:02.

said it, it turned up to Peter Reid -- to be true. And the Liberals are

:54:02.:54:11.

rediscovering federalism. They are talking about a federal Scotland if

:54:11.:54:15.

we reject independence. So he is not just changing SNP policy, but

:54:15.:54:20.

the policies of the other parties as well. This is all down to the

:54:20.:54:25.

SNP's success in the last election and his leadership which was the

:54:25.:54:29.

major factor in that success. he is not a man he was burdened by

:54:29.:54:34.

self doubt. What is the balance here? If you have someone he was

:54:34.:54:40.

very dynamic and can have the sort of influence that Murray has

:54:41.:54:45.

outlined, you cannot afford to be coming across as arrogant to the

:54:45.:54:50.

public. What kind of balance is he striking? The balance he strikes is

:54:50.:54:53.

the one that in politics, it is always better to get respect and to

:54:53.:55:03.
:55:03.:55:04.

be like to -- light. He does not show popularity in all quarters of

:55:04.:55:09.

Scotland, but he does show dynamic leadership. He is changing the face

:55:09.:55:13.

of Scottish politics. More importantly, he is also defined the

:55:13.:55:18.

laws of politics by winning the majority in 2007. Parliament was

:55:18.:55:21.

set up in Scotland to make sure that did not happen. He has brought

:55:21.:55:26.

his party from being a protest party on the fringe to being a

:55:26.:55:31.

majority force in Scotland. The tea -- the judicious combination of

:55:31.:55:34.

Scottishness and firm leadership has won through with the public.

:55:34.:55:38.

The public do not support independence to any great extent,

:55:38.:55:42.

but they have nevertheless voted for competent government and a

:55:42.:55:46.

Scotland that is moving forward. Unlike predecessors, including

:55:46.:55:50.

myself, he does speak for the nation. This is the important

:55:50.:55:58.

difference. He is the lead of Polly route, but also a national leader.

:55:58.:56:03.

That is important when they are discussing constitutional issues.

:56:03.:56:08.

You are right. Alex can be arrogant, he can be insistent on things, but

:56:08.:56:14.

look also at the fact that he has shown courage. The Libyan bombing

:56:14.:56:17.

incident, that was good for Scotland, not liked by the public

:56:17.:56:23.

at the time, but a fair decision, and he took it. Just before we

:56:23.:56:27.

leave this, I use saying that Johann Lamont, as leader of

:56:27.:56:31.

Scottish Labour in Holyrood, she cannot speak for Scotland?

:56:31.:56:35.

course she can, she aspires to be the leader in that parliament and

:56:35.:56:41.

to be a national leader. That is not the issue. Since the Alex

:56:41.:56:44.

Salmond's election, he has dominated Scottish politics, and

:56:44.:56:47.

the reason for that is that the Unionist parties have lost traction

:56:47.:56:53.

in the post devolution period. He has taken the idea of Scottishness,

:56:53.:56:57.

the Saltire, patriotism and pride, and he has wrapped his party around

:56:57.:57:01.

it. The other parties have failed to do that. The other parties could

:57:01.:57:08.

learn from the First Minister's and reconfigure their policies. That is

:57:08.:57:11.

the great weakness, currently top of the Unionist parties. Let me

:57:11.:57:19.

give you a quote from the former chair of the Scottish Council for

:57:19.:57:29.
:57:29.:57:29.

Voluntary organisations. She said that loyalties were negotiable, but

:57:30.:57:36.

now politics is a punter free zone of poisonous tribalism. Is that a

:57:36.:57:40.

picture you recognise? Yes, it is. I think there is a poisonous

:57:40.:57:49.

tribalism in Scottish politics. I can go back to the days of the

:57:49.:57:57.

original Scottish Labour Party. But the vitriol that was poured on some

:57:57.:58:01.

people at that time was awful. This is the attitude that a lot of

:58:01.:58:05.

senior people in the Scottish Labour Party have, you are either

:58:05.:58:15.
:58:15.:58:17.

for us are your against us. -- or you are against us. All the parties

:58:17.:58:20.

have to recognise that the parliament was supposed to be

:58:20.:58:24.

consensual, the opposite of the Westminster adversarial system. We

:58:24.:58:28.

were supposed to work together a lot more. When you watch First

:58:28.:58:34.

Minister's Questions now, as I do it my retirement, it is not

:58:34.:58:40.

inspiring to watch people standing up and reading scripted insults and

:58:40.:58:45.

name-calling. We have to rise above that. Henry, I'll have to ask you

:58:45.:58:48.

to come back to that later, because you are both staying with us, and

:58:48.:58:51.

we will be looking at the American election and some of the latest

:58:51.:58:57.

from the newspapers, but right now, let's cross over to London for the

:58:57.:59:05.

race with -- news with Maxine Mawhinney and Andrew Kerr.

:59:05.:59:10.

Good afternoon. The US presidential candidates are heading into the

:59:10.:59:14.

final two days of campaigning, with the outcome still too close to call.

:59:14.:59:20.

The latest survey suggests that Barack Obama and Mitt Romney are

:59:20.:59:30.
:59:30.:59:30.

level, with 48% each of support. No matter how bad a storm is, we

:59:30.:59:34.

bounced back. No matter how tough times are, we are all in this

:59:34.:59:39.

together. We rise or fall as one nation and one people.

:59:39.:59:44.

A final push for votes as the clock ticks towards Tuesday's vote.

:59:44.:59:50.

Barack Obama is asking for more time to change America. The former

:59:50.:59:56.

president was brought into help him make his case. His challenger at

:59:56.:00:01.

Mitt Romney is not letting up either. Both candidates are truth -

:00:01.:00:04.

- are frantically trying to attract undecided voters in battleground

:00:04.:00:09.

states. The economy is the big issue of this election.

:00:09.:00:14.

question of this election can stand this. Do you want more of the same,

:00:14.:00:18.

what do you want real change? Barack Obama promised change, but

:00:18.:00:24.

he could not deliver it. I promise change, and I have a record of

:00:25.:00:29.

achieving change. The two contenders both have a punishing

:00:29.:00:32.

Schedule ahead of them today. Barack Obama will go to New

:00:32.:00:38.

Hampshire and then Florida and Ohio. Mitt Romney will go to Ohio first

:00:38.:00:44.

and then to Pennsylvania. In this vast country, millions of Americans

:00:44.:00:48.

have already cast their ballots in the early voting to. I am voting

:00:48.:00:58.
:00:58.:00:59.

for Barack Obama. He is making some changes. I feel like with Barack

:00:59.:01:03.

Obama being in office for the next election, things will change for

:01:03.:01:07.

the better in America, regardless. An opinion poll today but the

:01:07.:01:13.

candidates each at 48%, with just two days of campaigning left. The

:01:13.:01:19.

election is still too close to call. Previously unseen text messages

:01:19.:01:24.

between David Cameron and Rebekah Brooks have been published by the

:01:24.:01:29.

Mail on Sunday. The messages are from a series of text messages and

:01:29.:01:33.

e-mails handed to Lord Justice Leveson during his media standards

:01:33.:01:38.

inquiry. The Children's Commissioner for

:01:38.:01:42.

Wales has backed calls for a new inquiry into the abuse of children

:01:42.:01:47.

in care homes in North Wales in the 1970s and 80s. The commissioner

:01:47.:01:53.

says he suspects a group of people were protected, enabling MPs to

:01:53.:01:56.

continue. Winter is definitely here and snow

:01:56.:02:00.

has been falling in the South West of England, covering parts of

:02:00.:02:04.

Somerset and Wiltshire in up to three inches of the white stuff. He

:02:04.:02:08.

was have sent in their pictures of the snow. It has already caused

:02:08.:02:11.

disruption on the roads as well as a suspended do service this morning.

:02:12.:02:21.

That is all the news for now. There is more news on BBC One at 5:50pm.

:02:21.:02:26.

Good afternoon. A huge piece of an aircraft carrier is to be floated

:02:26.:02:32.

in the Clyde. It is the last part of a ship to be moved to Rosyth.

:02:32.:02:36.

Stephen Cottrell is at the BAE yard systems -- BAE Systems yard in

:02:36.:02:39.

Govan. This is the largest section of the

:02:39.:02:42.

Queen Elizabeth class career built here in Govan. It will be assembled

:02:42.:02:46.

in Fife. The process of getting it there has already been affected by

:02:46.:02:49.

the weather. The original plan was to take it round the northern tip

:02:49.:02:53.

of Scotland, but it will now go around the southern coast of

:02:53.:02:56.

Scotland. It will be in Fife in nine days.

:02:56.:03:00.

Trains between Dundee and Aberdeen are suspended after a minor

:03:00.:03:05.

derailment. The cross-country service came off the tracks that

:03:05.:03:08.

Inverkeilor in Angus before 10am today. No-one was injured. It is

:03:08.:03:13.

not clear when the line will reopen. The Aberdeen shares in at -- Emeli

:03:13.:03:18.

Sande was a big win at the medal awards last night. She scooped

:03:18.:03:26.

three separate titles. The event was held in Liverpool.

:03:26.:03:34.

The showers we have had in the South and West will begin to pull

:03:34.:03:37.

away into the Atlantic, and then the bulk of the country will be dry

:03:37.:03:43.

and bright, with sunshine in the North and West. Today, we have a

:03:43.:03:47.

south-easterly wind which is coming off the North Sea, so cloudier in

:03:47.:03:56.

the North East. Top temperature, Strap yourselves in. It is time for

:03:56.:04:06.
:04:06.:04:10.

With the in the studio is Dr Christopher Carman from Strathclyde

:04:10.:04:17.

University. Still with me is Murray Ritchie and Henry McLeish. Looking

:04:17.:04:21.

at their headlines today regarding the presidential election, it has

:04:21.:04:31.
:04:31.:04:34.

been described as the longest, got ears, silliest election ever.

:04:34.:04:39.

There are some of the other headlines. How are you calling it

:04:39.:04:46.

at this stage? Their close. There is a disconnect between national

:04:46.:04:56.

polls and state level polls. The national polls have it very close.

:04:56.:05:04.

The state level polls are the interesting ones. Or high York is a

:05:04.:05:13.

big one. Wisconsin and Florida at others. -- Ohio. It is where the

:05:13.:05:20.

polls break in these states. We are interested in Ohio, Wisconsin -

:05:20.:05:30.
:05:30.:05:30.

they are breaking four or armour -- they are breaking for Barack Obama.

:05:30.:05:39.

If we look at the possibility of a Trident free Scotland and a nuclear

:05:39.:05:46.

disarmed UK how would that be seen in the White House? Mitt Romney

:05:46.:05:52.

tends to reflect Barack Obama in some of these big issues. Mitt

:05:52.:05:57.

Romney kept saying he supported a lot of what Barack Obama had said

:05:57.:06:02.

in the third televised debate. They have not specifically committed on

:06:02.:06:06.

Trident, but I would speculate they would both be in favour of keeping

:06:06.:06:13.

Trident actor of. They would be in favour of a strong NATO. If we look

:06:13.:06:21.

at something else, Gordon Brown is saying that an independent Scotland

:06:21.:06:27.

would be a British colony. He said under SNP plans that would be

:06:27.:06:32.

perfect. What you think of that and by

:06:32.:06:37.

saying it now? It is unfortunate that the word Colonial has been

:06:37.:06:43.

used. It was a thoughtful piece. He is saying that no matter what the

:06:43.:06:46.

relationship between Scotland and the UK is after independence, we

:06:46.:06:50.

will still be dealing with the United Kingdom. For me it does

:06:51.:06:54.

highlight the point that we're based with two options.

:06:54.:07:00.

Independents or Unionism. If you read between the lines of the

:07:00.:07:06.

Gordon Brown article he is saying we need more devolution. I suspect

:07:06.:07:11.

that idea of being part of the UK is acceptable to most Scots, but I

:07:11.:07:15.

want to see more home rule powers. I think basically that Gordon Brown

:07:15.:07:21.

is reinforcing my message. What about the timing? He has been

:07:21.:07:27.

below the radar or a lot of this. That is true. I have spoken to

:07:27.:07:31.

Gordon Brown over the last six months about his views on the

:07:31.:07:38.

constitutional question. I did he has shifted in his view. He does

:07:38.:07:43.

not have much truck with independence. On other hand

:07:43.:07:47.

hopefully he will start to argue that secures Scotland in the UK is

:07:47.:07:51.

the best bet for the future. If you do not want independence let us

:07:51.:07:57.

have maximum home rule. With an independent Scotland be a British

:07:57.:08:03.

colony? He was talking about the Bank of England under control might

:08:03.:08:06.

have over the Scottish economy. The bag of England is a British

:08:06.:08:13.

institution and therefore some of it belongs to Scotland. Alex

:08:13.:08:16.

Salmond will welcome Gordon Brown coming back into the political

:08:16.:08:24.

scene and asking questions. This referendum will be won or lost on

:08:24.:08:31.

the economy. If enough people could be persuaded that they would be

:08:31.:08:35.

better off, the SNP would win the referendum. We should welcome

:08:35.:08:45.
:08:45.:08:46.

Political magazine presented by Andrew Neil and Isabel Fraser. Including UKIP leader Nigel Farage, and David Willetts on Lord Heseltine's growth plan.


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