02/06/2013 Sunday Politics Scotland


02/06/2013

Andrew Neil and Andrew Kerr with the latest political news, interviews and debate, including the latest on the lobbying scandal with Francis Maude and Jim Murphy.


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complain about the deal they are getting on expenses but many are

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angry about the new system. Nadine Tories joins us.

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And coming up on Sunday Politics Scotland - 16 and 17-year-olds will

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get a vote in next year's referendum on independence, so will they vote

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Apology for the loss of subtitles for 2167 seconds

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sympathy. You get 66,000 a year and you earn a decent pension. You can

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earn money outside armament. It is not going to get public sympathy, is

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it? The public needs of democracy in which MPs can afford to access. The

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situation is we will have our parliament which will be full of

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millionaires or poppers. It is coming to a situation for MPs cannot

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afford to be MPs. I know to MPs are going to stand down because they

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cannot afford to be MPs. Who do you blame for this? David Cameron and

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Gordon brown because in the last parliament in a process to save

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their skins, they agreed to recommendations put forward. It was

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a knee-jerk reaction and badly thought through. It costs the

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taxpayer a huge amount of money and should never have been agreed to.

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understand I am supposed to ask you questions about how much you made

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going into the jungle? I have not made anything yet. I do not want to

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talk about it in the same way that if I asked you how much you earn

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from the British taxpayer by the licence fee including your benefits

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in trouble and how much you are paid in this job? You say here and now

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how much you get paid and I will tell you how much I get paid.

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have been paid nothing to go into the jungle, is that what you are

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telling us? I have not smelly benefited from it. I do have a

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company in which I write extensively, I do television

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appearances extensively and I do get paid. When I benefit personally from

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that, I will have to declare it to the register and when I do, I will

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do it immediately. Isn't there a difference between you and Andrew

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because you're an elected public representative? You took time out of

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a paid job I did not, I was on holiday. YouTube time out to go and

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do a television programme? Nick, you must tell the truth. Parliament was

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on recess when I was in the jungle and I was on holiday. Your job is to

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represent your constituents. So I am not allowed to have a holiday?

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saying you need to declare it. declare the money that I am paid.

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You are public representative. think her expenses for going into

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the jungle have been well raked over. What do you think of my idea

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that MPs should be paid much more? Do you think your colleagues would

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go for that? A salary of say a hundred thousand? Outside earnings

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and expenses? I think MPs issued be paid in the same level as GPs and

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headteachers. I figured there were no outside earnings probably a large

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number of MPs in Parliament today with a bubbly leads. The kind of

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able you would attract would be a very different type of person.

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are saying if MPs had 100000 and had no outside earnings they would

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probably lead? Ella M I think there are more to earn substantially more

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than that. For many MPs to give up their outside earnings, you have

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people who write books etc. People who spend far more time on the

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outside earnings. You are lumbered with it certain, aren't you? I think

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we probably are and it needs to become a lot more comfortable.

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Welcome to Sunday Politics Scotland. Coming up - young people and the

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referendum, we have a new survey which indicates what they make of

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the information wars, who influences them and their voting intentions.

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think schools have more of an influence than parents. At home

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parents boat so that has influenced me more to vote. They want Scotland

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to be the safest place in the world for children to grow up. How

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realistic is the Scottish Government's lofty ambition? And MPs

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behaving badly - white borders cannot recall troublesome

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politicians despite repeated promises from the UK government.

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Little has been known about the attitudes of young people who will

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be eligible to vote next year until now. Major new survey by Edinburgh

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University suggests only 21% of 14 to 17-year-olds would vote yes to an

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independent Scotland. We have given exclusive access to the results and

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I have been back to school to find out more.

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At this Academy students are thinking about an historic vote. The

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Edinburgh University survey was roadtested here. Pupils helped

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define and clarify the questions. The main things we thought about was

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how can we make this as easy as possible? We looked at all the

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questions and analyse them and came up with ideas as to how to make them

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as simple as possible. 94% of those surveys were aware of the referendum

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would be held last year, -- next year, and the crunch question should

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Scotland be an independent question - in the survey indicates 21% said

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yes, 60% said no and 19% were undecided. If anyone was under the

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illusion that I giving votes to 16 and 17-year-olds Alex Salmond was

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going to unveil a secret weapon, by doing this, then they should be

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disabused. This suggests there are is not marked evidence that there is

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great support among 16 to seven new -- 17-year-olds. This is a

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significant survey. No survey is definitive and we would be delighted

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if someone else repeated this. No survey tells us everything, but this

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is an indication. There has never been a survey like this before.

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the information taken from this will be put to good use. We will supply

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materials to schools in Scotland over the next few months so they can

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use them in the next academic year. It is not in any sense to indicate

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one side or the other but it will give teachers material on what young

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people are thinking. Teachers are aware of their responsibilities when

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it comes to the referendum. We have to show both sides of the debate but

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you have your own opinions and you talk about it with other adults but

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when you come into the classroom it is our responsibility to give a fair

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and balanced viewpoint. A young people look for information, school

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does not compete with social media. Scoop plays a good role but they do

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not give you enough about the referendum, not yet. The Internet is

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probably were young people get most of their information. Politics is

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used more on social networking sites. Online it is easy to look for

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what you need and you fight links and you go and find more arguments

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and find out about things you would not necessarily look for.

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teachers and survey researchers have been impressed that the awareness

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and political engagement of young people suggested either survey. We

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saw that in school. I am always interested in what is going on

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because at this stage in my life, I am leaving school, it is important

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to note what is going on and what changes will occur as I get older.

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take an active interest in politics. I like to know what is going on in

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the country and I take an interest in foreign politics as well. With

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young people considering the survey results about identity and parental

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influence in their voting, there is plenty to think about before heading

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to the polling booth. Joining me now is then Nisbet, one of the students

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we saw, a representative from Edinburgh University and Rachel

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:47:24.:47:33.

Ormston. -- then Nesbitt. Were you surprised by the results? What was

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surprising was how low the boat was, even lower than what we see in most

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of the adult polls. The young people have a strong interest in the survey

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and getting more information. Two thirds of the students said

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effectively that they want more information before they make a final

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decision. Looking at independence, why was the result is so low? Is

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there a confidence issue? There is something about not knowing what

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will happen and not having the confidence of knowing what an

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independent Scotland would be like. It is not so much a strong

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conviction, but from the survey, it is a lack of information and

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students say that. They want more specific information and they want

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to know what is happening in order to make a more informed decision. If

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they cannot do this, there is a high proportion of no faults. Rachel, how

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does the survey compared to other results we have seen? As my

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colleague said, the level of support for a yes vote amongst this age

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group is a lot lower than we have seen in other surveys. Typically,

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the polls over the last few months have put the yes vote at somewhere

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between 28% and 36%, so 21% is a lot lower than that. It was quite

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surprising finding, because if there is an age pattern amongst adults,

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tends to be amongst the older age group who are least supportive of

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independence. Young adults tend to be more supportive, but 14 to

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17-year-olds are not conforming to that. It is interesting that younger

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adults are not conforming. They tend to to be more liberal in their

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views. I think it is a lack of certainty in what the consequences

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would be, how sure you are about what independence means? That is

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something that is linked with adults and how likely they are to vote yes

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no. We often hear that adult abuse from the usual suspects and it is

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interesting to hear from you, then. It is interesting and table wanted

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to listen more, especially on social media. There has never been much

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continuity so maybe one campaign says one thing and on the other

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campaign they are saying something else. It needs clarification amongst

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young people and what they want. What was the research indicating

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Apology for the loss of subtitles for 2167 seconds

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based on this. Query to you go for information? Information can be

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accessed anywhere. You can discuss with your parents and family and

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this can be a place to spark up debate. Social media is a growing

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force we find this and it is interesting. Independence for

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Scotland is a completely new idea. In schools, many of the contemporary

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issues we face there may not be events on the horizon we could

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change. With this referendum, now we have the chance to vote, that shows

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a real power behind young people. you discuss the referendum with your

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friends at school? It is exciting. Because it is categorical in its

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nature, it means people have to decide so many times have been spent

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discussing with my peers at about what is happening. The real

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engagement seems to be there and it has taken us by surprise. It is

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usually the case that young adults are a little less interested in

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Apology for the loss of subtitles for 2167 seconds

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politics. It is important and categorical. What are the scenarios

:54:12.:54:22.
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By it was evident from the fact that the suggested one 5th of young

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people have still to make up their minds. It says I am not confident

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about making a decision. Two-thirds are saying, I have made a decision,

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but that could change if I get further information. Many young

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people are willing to take information on board and I think

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that is encouraging. Are you feeling fortunate that you can take

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part in this debate? Yes, it is an amazing opportunity. It is

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something that will change Scotland for ever. It is new ground for

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Scotland to cover. This has not been looked at properly for

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hundreds of years. It is a great opportunity. Do you get quite

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heated almost when you have these discussions? It can get heated. We

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are not putting each other down. We are seeking clarity and an

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agreement on what will happen. is interesting to have this

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:55:55.:55:56.

evidence. Do you think it might be replicated by someone else? This is

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certainly the first time, as far as I am aware, that there has been a

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serious attempt to look at the views of 14 to 17-year-olds in

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Scotland. I would hope that there will be further surveys of this age

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group in the run-up to the referendum. Thank you all very much

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for joining us. Now, there was positive news this

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week when it came to child welfare. A Care Inspectorate report said

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authorities are getting better at protecting at-risk children. It is

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a difficult and sensitive issue but the Scottish Government is aiming

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high, saying they want Scotland to be the best place in the world for

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children to grow up. Craig Anderson has more.

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The inspectors' report will make relatively comfortable reading for

:56:45.:56:51.

social work departments. It recognises that staff understand

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the corrosive employment of chronic poor parenting, neglect and

:56:54.:57:04.
:57:04.:57:09.

emotional abuse. The report recognises the help given by other

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bodies him alerting social work staff to signs of abuse. Systems

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have a set up to ensure a high degree of contact with parents and

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children once it those youngsters had been placed on the child

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protection register. People who are in charge of services to protect

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children are working together. People who see children every day,

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like health visitors and teachers, are much more willing to come

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forward when they have concerns about children. But the inspectors

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say there is still room for improvement. For children who are

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approaching that threshold, they might not be having enough contact

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with social workers. There is a growing awareness about the impact

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of neglect on children. We are committed to getting it right with

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every child. It is about making sure that we are intervening in

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family life early enough to make a difference. We do not want to get

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to the stage of children having to be looked after. Another key

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recommendation is that social services should act faster one so

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they decide that children should be removed from their home. A

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permanent home is vital if children are to develop and flourish.

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I'm joined now in the studio by Anne McTaggart, the Scottish Labour

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MSP and by Stewart Maxwell the SNP MSP.

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Good morning. A very positive report, things are obviously going

:58:52.:58:55.

well in this sector. By the Scottish government do what

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Scotland to be the best place for children to grow up. We must not be

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complacent. This is a very good report and highlights many

:59:07.:59:17.
:59:17.:59:17.

improvements across many areas. They have been positive results and

:59:17.:59:20.

much better multi- agency working they may have seen in the past. But

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there are still problems. For example, children who are suffering

:59:25.:59:29.

from neglect but two were just below the threshold so they are not

:59:29.:59:34.

being bought to the attention of services quickly enough.

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Scottish government are co- ordinating the agencies quite well.

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Yes, they are. But there is still room for improvement. There are

:59:45.:59:48.

still children who are below that threshold level that still need to

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be looked at and given a service. The Care Inspectorate were pointing

:59:56.:59:59.

out that child care is everyone's responsibility. Social workers,

:59:59.:00:07.

police, members of the public as well. Is that important to

:00:07.:00:12.

remember? It is one of the most important changes over the last few

:00:12.:00:18.

years, the coming together of these agencies. In the past, there was a

:00:18.:00:23.

problem were health might identify someone, but police and social

:00:23.:00:27.

workers have no idea. We are beginning to see some positive

:00:27.:00:34.

changes in that regard. It is important that we look forward. In

:00:34.:00:39.

Parliament, we have to get her teeth into the new children Bill

:00:39.:00:43.

that has been introduced. If we get that right, we will see further

:00:43.:00:47.

improvement in the future. Is there still a problem about children who

:00:48.:00:54.

fall through the cracks, who have come off the register, who have

:00:54.:01:02.

missed the threshold for getting on the register? Yes, there is.

:01:02.:01:08.

However, we have got to congratulate the health agencies

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and all those who work more closely together. Education, police, they

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are all coming together to try to identify these young people that

:01:20.:01:30.
:01:30.:01:32.

you are talking about. But it is important to recognise the

:01:32.:01:39.

Invisible children. We need to identify and multi-agency approach.

:01:40.:01:46.

It can be very difficult to identify the children. It is almost

:01:46.:01:49.

inevitable that some children would fall through the cracks according

:01:49.:01:55.

to the Care Inspectorate. But you cannot accept that. Do you have a

:01:55.:01:58.

pragmatic view that there may be children who fall through the gaps

:01:58.:02:04.

and there is very little that the authorities can do? There is no

:02:04.:02:07.

system in the world that anyone can produce that will guarantee

:02:07.:02:12.

absolute protection of all children. That is impossible. What we can do

:02:12.:02:19.

is improve things. But there are children who are being missed. They

:02:19.:02:24.

are suffering long-term neglect. But there is no single incident

:02:24.:02:34.

that brings them to the attention of support mechanisms. But there

:02:34.:02:41.

are particular groups, children with learning disabled parents, for

:02:41.:02:44.

children with parents who have addiction problems, and they are

:02:44.:02:48.

not getting the attention they require. That is one thing we must

:02:48.:02:53.

focus on. That is why we have this you programme to make sure that

:02:53.:02:58.

inspections take a broader look at children, rather than focus on a

:02:58.:03:01.

narrow group. It can be very difficult for social workers to

:03:01.:03:07.

identify these children? I totally agree. There is not a politician

:03:07.:03:16.

who would not agree. The new approach and the aspirations in the

:03:16.:03:21.

new Bill totally agree with that. It is a super way to move forward.

:03:21.:03:28.

However, if we are not going to fund local authorities to enable us

:03:28.:03:33.

to highlight that service and to produce that service, to support

:03:33.:03:38.

some of the staff and the communities to enable us to try and

:03:38.:03:44.

ensure that is done. But the services are very expensive? What

:03:44.:03:52.

concerns are there in the sector about funding and cuts? At no point

:03:52.:03:59.

in history have people said there is enough funding. Every pressure

:03:59.:04:02.

is -- every budget is under pressure. That is why we have to

:04:02.:04:06.

look at how the services work together and bring them together in

:04:06.:04:13.

a more efficient manner. I think we can make progress. Local-government

:04:13.:04:17.

has had an increasing share of the Scottish government budget. At

:04:17.:04:22.

times there have been cuts... it is very difficult with the

:04:22.:04:27.

council tax freeze. The council tax freeze is funded from the Scottish

:04:27.:04:32.

government. But over and above that, the share of the Scottish budget

:04:32.:04:38.

has increased over the period that the SNP has been NPower. That has

:04:38.:04:45.

been of benefit to their social services. But cuts from whence Mr

:04:45.:04:54.

will have an impact. -- cuts from Westminster. People are aware that

:04:54.:04:59.

things have to be done differently. But I do not agree with them that

:04:59.:05:03.

government, local government, has to take what they get. It is

:05:03.:05:10.

totally impractical. The services that are there just now, they are

:05:10.:05:16.

struggling to deal with what they have to do with just now. That is

:05:16.:05:21.

without pudding those and people who are already in contact with

:05:21.:05:25.

social services who are not already on the register. There is a range

:05:25.:05:35.
:05:35.:05:49.

of young people are still the bus on early years intervention and

:05:49.:05:55.

making sure that children do not suffer more neglect. It will be more

:05:55.:06:00.

efficient. Let us turn our attention to the story at the top of the

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programme? Your reaction to the Edinburgh University survey that 21%

:06:05.:06:13.

of young people would vote yes to our independent Scotland. It is an

:06:13.:06:19.

interesting poll. A poll two weeks ago showed that amongst the younger

:06:19.:06:25.

age group the split was roughly 50-50 in terms of yes and no. You

:06:25.:06:28.

will get different results with different surveys but what is

:06:28.:06:34.

important is the fact that when people come to vote, they will look

:06:34.:06:41.

at individual questions. They will think do they want Scotland to

:06:41.:06:46.

control welfare, benefits and taxation except? When it comes to

:06:46.:06:50.

the boat, those are the choices people will make and they will

:06:50.:06:54.

choose a positive future and vote yes. You heard people talking about

:06:54.:07:01.

the lack of information? Could? Could there be more information?

:07:02.:07:04.

Scottish Government has said it will publish a number of papers leading

:07:04.:07:09.

up to the final paper towards the end of the year. There is lots more

:07:09.:07:12.

information to come and those young people said they could be swayed in

:07:12.:07:17.

terms of the boat. They will definitely get the information they

:07:17.:07:21.

need and in the end, I am sure they will vote yes. Thank you both very

:07:21.:07:26.

much. Coming up after the news - MPs

:07:26.:07:32.

behaving badly, but what can be done? Legislation to deal with

:07:32.:07:34.

misbehaving MPs was part of the coalition agreement but has been

:07:35.:07:39.

kicked into the long grass. We will discuss that and we will also look

:07:39.:07:44.

at the big stories of the week. You are watching Sunday Politics

:07:44.:07:52.

Scotland and now it is time for a news up date.

:07:52.:07:56.

Good afternoon. The latest official figures indicate that more pregnant

:07:56.:08:01.

women in Scotland are trying to stop smoking. Last year the NHS in

:08:01.:08:06.

Scotland recorded just under 3000 attempts by pregnant women to stop.

:08:06.:08:09.

The Scottish Government says women will now be offered carbon monoxide

:08:09.:08:13.

monitoring early in their pregnancy to check the levels of exposure to

:08:13.:08:20.

cigarette smoke. It is a simple breath test. Carbon monoxide is

:08:20.:08:25.

exhaled if women are smokers in a certain amount. There is a sensitive

:08:25.:08:30.

equipment that will account as level of carbon monoxide that we feel is

:08:30.:08:37.

dangerous. We know that in combination with women being advised

:08:37.:08:42.

and referred to smoking stopping clinics, has been shown as a

:08:42.:08:47.

combination of interventions that are successful. Reports of salts in

:08:47.:08:52.

young children in the Fortwilliam area are being investigated. It is a

:08:52.:08:58.

merged -- it has emerged that a 28 euros man been arrested in

:08:58.:09:04.

connection with the inquiry and a report is being prepared.

:09:04.:09:09.

A survey of teenagers eligible to vote for the first time in the

:09:09.:09:15.

referendum vote says most do not think that Scotland should be

:09:15.:09:22.

independent. 94% of 14 to seven new -- 17-year-olds surveyed were not

:09:22.:09:29.

aware that are referendum will be held next year is 60% said no to

:09:29.:09:35.

independence and just over one and said they believed Scotland should

:09:35.:09:41.

be an independent country and 20% were undecided. Just over 1000

:09:41.:09:43.

people were questioned by researchers for Edinburgh

:09:43.:09:49.

University. As 15-year-old boy is in hospital

:09:49.:09:54.

after falling down a cliff in Aberdeenshire. The accident happened

:09:54.:09:59.

and at Castle ruins early yesterday evening. The leaves have issued a

:09:59.:10:03.

warning over what they say is the hazardous conditions in the area.

:10:04.:10:09.

In Iqbal, the Scotland manager Gordon Strachan says it's our huge

:10:09.:10:12.

disappointment to be without the cap on for the World Cup qualifying

:10:12.:10:18.

match in Croatia. He is on the sidelines and the Hibernian striker

:10:18.:10:23.

in -- striker Leigh Griffiths is fit to travel. Time for a weather

:10:23.:10:33.
:10:33.:10:53.

will be misty and murky around the coast. Tomorrow it will be dry and

:10:53.:11:01.

bright, particularly further east. Along the West Coast it will be

:11:01.:11:05.

misty and murky. That is all for now.

:11:06.:11:10.

I will be back with more news later. Now back to Sunday Politics

:11:10.:11:17.

Now back to Sunday Politics Scotland. Patrick Mercer's

:11:17.:11:24.

resignation of the flip has raised accusations that MPs are behaving

:11:24.:11:28.

badly. A bill was promised by the coalition government but despite

:11:28.:11:33.

high profile cases north and south of the border, nothing has

:11:33.:11:38.

happened. Our Political Correspondent has asked why?

:11:38.:11:47.

Remember this? Flipping MPs abusing the expenses system. They had the

:11:47.:11:54.

cheek to try and keep it all secret until the courts stepped in. People

:11:54.:12:02.

are dismayed. If an MP has done something seriously wrong that has

:12:02.:12:08.

been proved, people should have the right to sack them and a sack them

:12:08.:12:14.

now. A change in the law allowing people -- voters to force a

:12:14.:12:19.

by-election was part of the caller illusion agreement. The government

:12:19.:12:23.

published proposals to allow for recall if an MP was sent to jail or

:12:23.:12:27.

of other MPs thought it was appropriate. For some people, that

:12:27.:12:33.

does not go far enough. I would like the people to be able to decide.

:12:33.:12:38.

That is the only way the right of recall is going to be anything but a

:12:38.:12:44.

paper tiger. These proposals are a designed as such and will frighten

:12:44.:12:51.

and very few MPs. A lot of water has flowed under the bridge. A bill of

:12:51.:12:57.

recall was conspicuous by its absence from the Queens Speech. No

:12:57.:13:07.
:13:07.:13:10.

one at Westminster expected move any time soon until this happened.

:13:10.:13:16.

Patrick Mercer's decision to stay on despite resigning the Tory whip over

:13:16.:13:20.

cash for questions allegations has brought the issue back to the front

:13:20.:13:24.

pages as has the ongoing issue surrounding this MP, suspended by

:13:24.:13:33.

Labour last year. Those eager for reform are sceptical that recall is

:13:33.:13:41.

the right course of action. It is not a tool for the public, it is a

:13:41.:13:45.

tool for the really wealthy, elite people, or big political players who

:13:46.:13:53.

spend lots of money running huge campaigns. For ordinary people to be

:13:53.:14:00.

able to finance or organise such a campaign would be a huge jump.

:14:00.:14:03.

Walker's suspension from the SNP following allegations of domestic

:14:03.:14:11.

abuse has raised the issue at Holyrood. It is constituents will

:14:11.:14:17.

not be able to sack him before the 2016 election. There are two

:14:17.:14:23.

franchises in operations here. It would be very hard with the regional

:14:23.:14:28.

board, which is designed to be proportional or two top up the

:14:28.:14:32.

constituency elections, and at the moment, there is no possibility for

:14:33.:14:38.

a by-election in the region, so if an MSP resigns, then the next person

:14:38.:14:43.

down the list in the party gets elected and we saw that recently in

:14:43.:14:50.

Aberdeen. It would be a big change for Holyrood to introduce this.

:14:50.:14:53.

If the enthusiasm or the political class for people power is

:14:53.:14:57.

diminished, the anger over errant MPs has not. All the tissues remain

:14:57.:15:00.

divided over the right of recall and we are stuck with the politicians we

:15:00.:15:07.

have got, for the moment. We are joined by John Finnie, the former

:15:07.:15:12.

SNP MSP and he is now an independent and we have the Labour MP for

:15:12.:15:17.

Edinburgh South, Ian Murray. Ian Murray, in Bristol, how necessary is

:15:17.:15:23.

the right to recall? It is important to give able the power to be able to

:15:23.:15:26.

determine whether the member of Parliament should stay on. Your

:15:26.:15:34.

article mentioned Patrick Mercer. What we are left with at the moment,

:15:34.:15:38.

is not just parties having to determine whether or not the elected

:15:38.:15:42.

officials stay in their positions, but individuals themselves. Eric

:15:42.:15:47.

Joyce has been thrown out of the Labour Party and he is no longer a

:15:47.:15:52.

Labour member of Parliament, it is left with that individual to decide

:15:52.:15:57.

whether he should stay on and I think legislation should be brought

:15:57.:16:01.

in to ensure it's the people who elect these people have the decision

:16:01.:16:06.

whether they wish these people to continue. How optimistic are you

:16:06.:16:13.

about this legislation coming in? Francis Maude said earlier it was in

:16:14.:16:17.

the coalition agreement? He is being slightly disingenuous. It has been

:16:17.:16:27.
:16:27.:16:34.

in many parties's manifesto. The government has had an opportunity to

:16:34.:16:37.

legislate for this and bring the legislation in and they are not

:16:38.:16:47.

doing it. It has been suggested that there will be a campaign run against

:16:47.:16:52.

Nick Clegg over his broken promises. John Finnie, there has been a lot of

:16:52.:16:58.

talk at Westminster at about this but not at Holyrood? How necessary

:16:58.:17:04.

is the right of recall for Holyrood? It is only proper that the public

:17:04.:17:09.

feel they are adequately represented by people of integrity. I have read

:17:09.:17:14.

the report and I think there are challenges. Committee members have

:17:14.:17:19.

said it was not evidence that this within hounds public opinion, and it

:17:19.:17:22.

was here that it could raise potential that could not be

:17:22.:17:27.

realised. There are challenges connected with the procedure when it

:17:27.:17:34.

has been used in other jurisdictions. Do we want elected

:17:34.:17:38.

representatives to be of high integrity? There have been knee-jerk

:17:38.:17:42.

reactions and legislation is following the expenses scandal and

:17:42.:17:47.

there was anger in the streets, quite understandably. It is

:17:47.:17:52.

important we get the legislation right. It has to be fair to the

:17:52.:17:56.

individual and third to the public and that means an exhaustive

:17:56.:18:01.

process. That could take more than the duration than a period of

:18:01.:18:07.

government. Do you think you should have been recalled by your

:18:07.:18:13.

electorate when you resigned from the SNP? You resigned in the row

:18:13.:18:20.

over NATO? I do think -- do not think that is the case. I was

:18:20.:18:25.

elected as a manifesto and that gave a clear commitment and without

:18:25.:18:32.

reference to the public, the party whose list I was on to their

:18:32.:18:37.

decision. I do not subscribe to the view. I saw one political

:18:38.:18:41.

commentators say it was the people who changed the fundamental policy.

:18:42.:18:45.

They also in the House of Commons report, say there is no substitute

:18:45.:18:49.

for elections and I think that is the case. I am very open-minded

:18:49.:18:54.

about the recall issued what one of the frailties is there potential for

:18:55.:19:02.

it to be hijacked. It is like Donald Trump hijacking events in the

:19:03.:19:12.

north-east of Scotland! mentioned the possibility of Nick

:19:12.:19:21.

called being -- Nick Clegg being recalled because of broken promises?

:19:21.:19:29.

Is this not sent the rough-and-tumble of daily politics?

:19:29.:19:36.

What John has just said about his own situation is that he should not

:19:36.:19:42.

have been recalled, but the entire SNP for changing its policies! If we

:19:42.:19:46.

want to instil new trust in politicians and politics, we have to

:19:46.:19:50.

give power to the people to be able to make those choices. They make

:19:51.:19:55.

those choices at the ballot box. If they think those choices are bad,

:19:55.:19:59.

and the legs did representative acts badly, they should have the power to

:19:59.:20:03.

be able to recall that member of Parliament. It is clear that rules

:20:03.:20:09.

would we complicated. The report from the committee showed that this

:20:09.:20:14.

was a complex issue and all parties are committed to doing this. If we

:20:14.:20:24.
:20:24.:20:33.

come to an agreement that will work, we can make it work. Do you think it

:20:33.:20:43.
:20:43.:20:49.

would be sensible to recall? We this is about the integrity that people

:20:49.:20:55.

expect and there is no substitute for elections. The frailty of the

:20:55.:20:58.

process is that if you apply for this across-the-board, then any

:20:58.:21:05.

appeal system, if you talk about the significant issues of financial

:21:05.:21:15.
:21:15.:21:29.

irregularities, I tell you there are This was to instil public

:21:29.:21:35.

confidence. Confidence includes participation of course. We want to

:21:35.:21:44.

see the maximum participation. just want to get your reaction to

:21:44.:21:50.

the survey of young people that we have seen. 21% supporting

:21:50.:21:53.

independence in that survey. But it looked as if there is a big

:21:53.:21:59.

potential for done people to change their minds? The survey has shown

:21:59.:22:03.

what people are telling me that my visit schools. This is not the

:22:03.:22:08.

issue they are interested in. Whilst Scotland is on pause,

:22:08.:22:12.

obsessed by this constitutional issue, young people are saying to

:22:12.:22:17.

me that the Scottish Government is asking them to take a risk with

:22:17.:22:21.

their future when the other issues have not been mapped out. Young

:22:21.:22:25.

people want jobs, they want a secure and stable future. They want

:22:25.:22:29.

to be able to come into an education system at that age,

:22:29.:22:34.

flourished for the future. But Alex Salmond is saying to young people,

:22:34.:22:40.

take a risk with your future. Young people in that survey have given a

:22:40.:22:50.
:22:50.:22:53.

very clear message to Alex Salmond. The thank you both. Now in a moment,

:22:53.:22:56.

we will be discussing the big events coming up this week at

:22:56.:23:00.

Holyrood but, first, let's take a look back at the week in Sixty

:23:00.:23:01.

Seconds. The Scottish government announced

:23:01.:23:06.

it would press ahead with plans for same-sex marriage, introducing

:23:06.:23:12.

legislation in the next month. People are waiting longer than ever

:23:12.:23:18.

in Scottish Accident and Emergency departments.

:23:18.:23:22.

The Health Secretary Alex Neil said there is more to be done. Across

:23:22.:23:28.

Scotland as a whole, the figure is 92%. It is not as high as I would

:23:28.:23:33.

like to see it, but it is moving in the right direction. We need to get

:23:33.:23:39.

to 95 of they said. The Pope's representative in Britain said

:23:39.:23:41.

Cardinal Cathal Bryan had made mistakes but also did a lot of good

:23:41.:23:47.

work. Lawyers have advised Scottish

:23:47.:23:57.

universities that it may be legal to carry on charging fees.

:23:57.:24:01.

Campaigners have cold for a memorial to Mary Barbour.

:24:01.:24:09.

-- called. That was the week that was. Now let's take a look at the

:24:09.:24:12.

week ahead. This week I'm joined in the studio by the journalists

:24:12.:24:21.

Maurice Smith and Anna Burnside. First of all, the young people's

:24:21.:24:29.

serve it. Researchers coming up with interesting facts and figures.

:24:29.:24:34.

Quite surprising that so few of the young people seem to be excited

:24:34.:24:37.

about independence. You would think that everything about youth,

:24:37.:24:41.

optimism, I would have got more of them would have been enthusiastic

:24:42.:24:49.

about it. There is still so much to play for. They are open minded

:24:49.:24:54.

about it. I was surprised by these results. It was quite surprising

:24:54.:25:03.

and still a lot to play for. Yes, I was surprised as well. Perhaps it

:25:03.:25:07.

disappointing for the yes campaign at this stage. But it is very early.

:25:07.:25:14.

You can see a sense that they may be reflecting general opinion, the

:25:14.:25:19.

opinion of people around them, that they do not have enough information.

:25:19.:25:24.

They may be weary of the debate in this current phoney war staters.

:25:25.:25:29.

They are trying to get accurate sources of information? That came

:25:29.:25:35.

out from the figures and also that lovely, articulate young man that

:25:35.:25:40.

you had on the programme. That is what they want, some clarity and

:25:40.:25:45.

some facts. They do not like the nonsense. They want to get an idea

:25:45.:25:53.

of what is happening. I was very encouraged by what Dr Jan Eichhorn

:25:53.:25:59.

was same, that the understand it cannot be signed, sealed and

:25:59.:26:07.

delivered, but they want to look at the different scenarios. They want

:26:07.:26:12.

to do with this on quite a higher level. More adult wars going on in

:26:12.:26:21.

the papers again today. This Sunday Herald has got quite a striking

:26:21.:26:29.

headline. It is an interesting report about the UK's dysfunctional

:26:29.:26:38.

economy. I would say, they are pro- independence without being pro SNP.

:26:38.:26:43.

Especially on the economic side of the argument. It is very

:26:43.:26:46.

interesting what Margaret Cuthbert has done here. She has laid out the

:26:46.:26:53.

economic details behind the rhetoric. Many of us who remember

:26:53.:26:58.

the debate in the 1970s and 1980s will be familiar with that, but we

:26:58.:27:04.

have not heard this question in the debate recently, this whole

:27:04.:27:10.

question of London's influence on the rest of the UK economy.

:27:10.:27:14.

response from Better Together, they did not pick up on the London point,

:27:14.:27:18.

they just said you could be excluding your biggest market.

:27:18.:27:22.

to me, the Better Together of response did not strike me as

:27:22.:27:27.

interesting about that report. It just seemed a bit thrown away at

:27:27.:27:33.

the end of it. I think it is great to hear those arguments. I would

:27:33.:27:37.

like these children who do the survey to read this kind of thing.

:27:37.:27:42.

That is what we are leading. Looking ahead to this week, we are

:27:42.:27:47.

going to discuss the Scottish Conservative conference next week.

:27:47.:27:54.

The Scots Tory leader slaps down Scots critics. She is having quite

:27:54.:27:58.

a tough ride in the press these last few days. The party does not

:27:58.:28:05.

seem to be behind her? No, not long after she became leader, she seemed

:28:05.:28:15.
:28:15.:28:22.

to have gained some unity, but the cracks appearing. -- or appearing.

:28:22.:28:29.

What is the issue with Ruth Davidson, is it her performance?

:28:29.:28:35.

Why is she not getting us support from her MSPs? If I knew that, I

:28:35.:28:44.

would move into political consulting. I do not know... It is

:28:44.:28:49.

a poisoned chalice. I do not think you can play that might just now.

:28:49.:28:53.

The party is so divided. It is being attacked on so many fronts. I

:28:53.:28:58.

do not think it knows what it wants as leader to do. In at this Sunday

:28:58.:29:08.
:29:08.:29:11.

Times, this is quite a scandal. We have been discussing it the right

:29:11.:29:17.

to recall. What did you make of that conversation we just have?

:29:17.:29:26.

Both are quite keen on it. Yes, politicians are quite keen on doing

:29:26.:29:31.

these things. But not keen on implementing them. It seems strange

:29:31.:29:38.

that we are going round in a circle you. We had the expenses scandal,

:29:39.:29:44.

and here we are, three years later, not a move has been made. The

:29:44.:29:48.

public are going to look at this very sceptically. Our you sceptical

:29:49.:29:53.

about it? I am not sure if it could work. We would have to be very

:29:53.:29:57.

careful it did not just become another annoying way for interest

:29:57.:30:04.

groups to give politicians are a hard time. I have mixed feelings

:30:04.:30:13.

about it. The chance of that happening just now or slight.

:30:13.:30:20.

are slight. It could be used maliciously? Yes, how do you

:30:20.:30:26.

legislate for that? It could only be used in deserving cases and not

:30:26.:30:33.

Andrew Neil and Andrew Kerr with the latest political news, interviews and debate, including the latest on the lobbying scandal with Cabinet Office minister Francis Maude and shadow defence secretary Jim Murphy. Plus Nadine Dorries MP on MPs' expenses.


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