16/06/2013 Sunday Politics Scotland


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Morning, folks. Welcome to the Sunday Politics. Is this man a


racist thug with a taste for trouble or a voice of ordinary


people in the face of Islamic fundamentalism? We'll ask English


Defence League leader Tommy Robinson to come clean. The G8


returns to the UK and the anti- capitalist protestors are gearing


up, we'll go head to head on the evils - and virtues - of capitalism.


And it is welfare reform's equivalent of the magic bullet. But


And coming up on Sunday Politics Scotland: As the Conservatives and


Labour tighten up on welfare, will granny escape the so-called bedroom


Apology for the loss of subtitles for 1712 seconds


tax? One charity says why should The Department for work and


pensions is aiming for 80% of claims to be online. If someone


works, even for a short amount of time, it is worth their while and


they remain in the system. government deliver IT change on


this scale? I believe they can. The benefit system is incredibly


complicated. The major projects Authority looked at universal


credit in September of last year. Back then, it was graded amber/ red.


It means successful delivery of the project is in doubt. Urgent action


is needed. In May, the Government responded. Significant progress has


been made in the delivery of universal credit. The pathfinder


was successfully launched and we are on course to stop the


progressive national roll-out of universal credit in October. -- to


start. One MP is Warwick was that he is about to publish a book on


the chequered history of a large government projects. -- is worried.


The idea that the way to get this right is to say everything is going


fine and there are no problems, it is all on time and on Churchill.


That is not something I believe. -- on schedules. One theme runs


through the tortuous history of bad software and that is the failure to


confront reality. That is likely to be the case at the moment. That


would be catastrophic for many currently on benefits. What do


someone who cannot afford to feed their children look and sound like?


I had never thought I would be in this predicament but I am. There


are others out there who are in this situation but never dreamed of


being in it. The thing is, how do you get out of it? That is what I


am struggling with. I do not want to be on benefits. I want to work.


The situation I am in now stops me. Exactly the sort of person


universal credit are designed to help. Why does she not think being


paid a lump sum monthly will work for people like her? What do they


have to fall back on? They do not have an overdraft. I did have an


overdraft and I lived off the overdraft. It has got so bad that


they cannot afford to pay it back. You get this money. What happens if,


for some reason or another, you have to spend more than the


budgeted for a week or so? People will apply crisis loans. It will


get worse. The Government insists it will ensure no one falls through


the cracks. Despite backing some of the aims of universal credit, food


banks are preparing to help more people when changes come. Last year,


in 2012, we looked after 153,000 people whose primary reason for


needing the three days of food we give them in the food bank was that


there was a problem, a mistake, a change or to lay in benefit


payments. We are dealing with a significant change. We anticipate


large numbers of extra people coming to the banks as a


consequence. That worries us. -- food banks. The Government says it


will be flexible with people who might struggle to manage their


money. Universal credit will roll out of right, not early. It has not


yet convinced everyone this flagship policy is under control.


Now, we would have liked to put those concerns about the


implementation and implications of universal credit to a government


minister but our invitation to someone - anyone - responsible for


the policy was rejected. We will keep on asking. We are not easily


embarrassed by rebuttals, and we will return to the subject in the


weeks and months ahead. Now, it is G8 time again, and it is back in


the United Kingdom, in Northern Ireland in fact, where the


authorities are bracing themselves for aggro. This weekend, world


leaders a Cabinet this luxurious golf resort in County Fermanagh for


the latest G8 summit. On the agenda are trade, tax and transparency.


There will also be discussions on Syria and internet spying. Prime


ministers and presidents were not be the only ones descending on this


peaceful part of Northern Ireland because protesters plan to make


themselves heard as well. Meetings like the G8 and G20 have been


accompanied by protests and violence for a number of years.


Already this week, police raided a squat used by stock-take protesters


in Central London. Police in Northern Ireland up on alert.


Anarchist groups are protesting against capitalism itself. So, to


debate all that, Owen Jones and Charlie Wolf go head to head on the


I assume you stand shoulder to shoulder with the protesters. What


do you want to achieve? Some of the main issues which are angering


people are the fact we have 22,000 children dying every single day of


hunger, poverty. That is seven times bigger than 9/11 every day.


More people are dying of hunger can AIDS, tuberculosis and malaria


combined. We have 14 trillion dollars of tax which has been


stashed away, hidden from the taxman, at a time when third World


countries are losing three times more through tax avoidance than


they are getting through eight. Then the issues of climate change,


the human rights record of Russia. The key point is, what protesters


are trying to do, in the way that UK has put tax avoidance on the


agenda, it is to hold leaders to account and make sure we have a


national and global debate. We are holding to recount the eight most


importing countries in the world. - - holding to account. The problem


with world hunger is generally local governments. You can continue


to throw money at the problem. There is more than enough food in


the world. I agree with you. In Zimbabwe, it used to be Africa's


breadbasket. It is not any more. this an issue for the G8? I do have


a problem with the protesters. You can see by the way they handle


themselves was a bit speaks volumes. I do not like the word capitalism.


I prefer the word, free market. Capitalism was first used by


William Thackeray make peace. pressed taxpayers are having to


bail out the banks. That is not the fault of the people. The whole


point about free markets is people making free decisions. Free markets


are a morally correct institution. This is something that Margaret


Thatcher talked about many years ago. Let me put this to you Foster


in terms of free-market capitalism, in 2008, when the linchpin of the


capitalist system came crashing down. The state came to the rescue.


That is socialism - socialism for the rich and capitalism for


everyone else. A lot of people on the right had agreed to let them


fail. There are places for the state. I do not disagree. One needs


to look at how we got into the mess in the first place was a free


markets were not allowed to be free. The whole genesis of the problem


was Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. Capitalism is in crisis. Why is


there left so weak? Why are they making no advances democratically?


The number of protesters is diminishing. It is a good point.


You need anger at how things I hope at how things can be. There is


anger out there. The average worker is going through the bigger squeeze


in pay packets since records began. What is lacking is hope. That is


the need for a coherent alternative. That will give people hope.


Ordinary folk, living standards being squeezed. They are paying a


shed load of tax, helping to bail out the banks. Shouldn't they be


angry that companies like Google and Amazon pay next to nothing?


Governments right laws. They act to the laws. They are paying a legal


tax. They had aggressive lawyers and accountants. Are they doing


anything illegal? Of course not. That makes it worse. Change the tax


laws. It disturbs me when I listen to David Cameron going on about the


Irish and their corporate tax laws. If he does not like it, blow up our


tax rates. Do you think socialism would ever come up in a search


engine? -- lower at tax rates. They are still talking but not as bad as


last week. It is coming up to Welcome to Sunday Politics Scotland.


Coming up: As the so-called bedroom tax bites across the UK, we ask


should the over-65s be dependent on benefit cuts, and what is the


knock-on effect for Scotland? The political arguments go round and


round the roundabout. I've been to Aberdeen Donside ahead of


Thursday's by-election. Granny is mugging you, that is how


one commentator in a newspaper yesterday warned the younger


generation that there are not having it so good. As the Conservatives and


Labour take tougher positions on welfare, how long will the elderly


escape the cuts? One charity are seeing the bedroom tax should apply


across the board. These ladies feel strongly that


older people like them should not face welfare cuts, particularly when


it comes to something known as the bedroom tax. Older people have


adapted their homes by that age to suit their way of living. They have


paid taxes all their life and when they get to that age they should be


able to live in comfort. Currently none of the Westminster parties...


Given that two thirds of the entire welfare budget is spent on older


people, some say that position is not sustainable. When the UK


Government introduced what became known as the bedroom tax, it was to


save money and lease larger houses for families. One area they haven't


tackled is the occupation of those over the age of 65. One charity for


disabled people believes that the burden for the bedroom tax should be


spread more equally. There should be a presumption of equality for older


people as well as younger people. average 29% of people over the age


of 65 are on housing benefit. Of them 81% live on their own. Only


three local authorities were able to tell us how many of those were


occupied. Interestingly, no one exactly knows how much under


occupancy of the over 65s costs the country. Labour and the


Conservatives have stated that they will reduce the level of welfare


spending should they win the next election. An academic told me that


older people could be in the frame for future cuts. The Chancellor at


his last budget said he wanted to limit the amount spent on annually


managed expenditure. 40% of that is the state pension. Labour have just


said that if they return to government they would cap welfare.


That cannot be done without capping payments to the elderly.


government has control over what buildings are created. Housing


groups say it is making it very hard to plan. We didn't start off with a


policy in Scotland that there is a problem with under occupied


property. I was convinced that there was data for people of pensionable


age that showed that they were under applying to a significant extent.


The elderly vote across the UK is a large and influential one. We know


what those parties are going to give us and we will vote for the party


that will serve us best. For any government to cut welfare to older


people would be brave. But changes may be inevitable given the growing


elderly population. Joining me is the SNP's Linda


Fabiani, Drew Smith and Alex Johnston. Our older people at risk


now from funding cuts under a future Tory government, do you think?


government had given a sound commitment that older people will be


protected. We have already seen a record rise in the state pension and


that is evidence of what is going on, but we have to remember that it


is the case that pension age people are not exempt from the kind of


reorganisation that is going on. The pension age will change radically


and that will be the way in which efficiencies are made in the cost of


keeping those who are now pensioners. That promised to protect


the over-65s only extends to the end of parliament, doesn't it? In the


car and circumstances there is a needed to ensure the welfare budget


is brought under control. -- current. You can seek employment or


find extra hours, for example, and many people do not have that


option. These are people who have contributed all their lives to the


support of the welfare and benefit system and it is appropriate that


their position should be protected. Drew, it looks like Labour are now


sticking to the Tory spending plans. Ed Miliband wants a cap on benefits.


Perhaps you are understanding tough choices need to be made protest over


the bedroom tax has turned into a whisper. Will you be cutting


benefits for older people? protest for the bedroom tax has not


reduced to a whisper. The protest is that it simply won't work. For a


whole range of people affected by it and across disabled groups, they


need that extra room for good reasons and the bedroom tax fails to


recognise that. The real problem is that we don't have homes to move


people into. Even if it was desirable, we take the view that


there is a significant problem with under occupancy here in Scotland.


The idea of extending bedroom tax is not something that will carry much


favour. What about the winter fuel allowance for less well-off


pensioners? We are saying that in terms of higher rates of income tax,


we would not pay the winter fuel payment for those well-off


individuals. That is a small group of people, so we are not removing a


large group of pensioners from the system, but we are recognising that


these are tough times and economies must be made. We need to look at


what pensioners can afford, but in the main we need to understand that


a lot of pensioners are on small incomes and it is difficult for them


to meet the bills that we all have. Linda Fabiani, it is a different


story from you. You want to repeal the bedroom tax in the first year of


an independent Scotland. That would cost �60 million. How on earth can


you afford this largess? When you look at the Treasury figures,


Scotland spends less of its GNP on welfare than the UK as a whole, so


Scotland can cope very well with its own system. What I would like to say


about pensioners is any talk at all from the Westminster parties about


extending the bedroom tax, we should always bear in mind that a lot of


pensioners pay full rent and always have. A lot of pensioners pay most


of their rent and get a top up from housing benefit, so the impression


that there are all these pensioners getting free housing is quite


clearly wrong. When you set out your stall to voters and people see what


you are proposing, it does seem quite generous, but when you see


what the Conservatives and Labour Party are doing, do you not think


they are taking a more pragmatic view? When you look at what is


happening to disabled people through the welfare cuts, when you look at


the fact that for the first time in a long time you have people queuing


at food banks. We have people being sanctioned for mistakes they have


not made in their applications. We have even got people with terminal


illnesses being forced to go to work assessment. I think people will look


at that and think, "that is not what we want. That is not what we pay


taxes for. Our country should not be part of a system that allows that to


happen." Alex Johnson, hearing that, the bedroom tax has had terrible


publicity. It has been pretty bad for the Coalition government. It


sounds from what Linda Fabiani is saying that she thinks she can


balance the books. What do you see? I do not believe that at all. The


under occupancy charge is beginning to do its job. The commitment that


Alex Salmond gave me that it would be repealed in the first year of an


independent Scotland is bogus. By 2017, the charge will have done its


job. As a result, it will no longer cost a vast amount to repealed. What


has to be said is that in a recent report published by the welfare


reform committee, it was suggested that welfare changes were going to


cost Scotland �1.6 billion per year. At that stage, Linda Fabiani


was jumping up and down, demanding that the �1.6 billion be brought


back again. The fact is that when I asked the First Minister about this,


he talked about a few million here and a few million there was 1


million miles away from giving that �1.6 billion commitment. What you're


getting is a lot of hot air. No facts on how an independent


Scotland, or the SNP, would deal with the situation. It is all talk.


I put that back to. A lot of hot air? Scotland can afford its own


social care system. More than the rest of the UK. Fact, after the


transitional arrangements within which will make changes such as


getting rid of the bedroom tax in the first year and moving to a


fairer system of an integrated tax benefit system instead of these


quick fixes that the other parties do all the time. Fact. Is this going


to be a 0-sum change? Will it cost us nothing? Scotland is even rich


country. It is the richest ever been. Yes, Scotland can do it. The


proof is there. You just have to look at the figures. Drew Smith,


talking of a fairer, more equal society, it has been suggested that


the burden should be shared across the ages. What do you think about


that? I think any reform of the welfare system looks to look at the


whole system. -- needs to look at the whole system. The debate here in


Scotland is to an extended. Eight. Scottish Government are telling us


that it will be all right if some we


we are going to keep a transitional agreement with the rest of the UK,


which is astonishing from a Nationalist party. They then say


that we will continue with the bases of sharing that with the rest of UK?


How that work? Will they need to have separate computer systems to


administer this? In the meantime, we are not getting to the bigger


changes which are actually needed, hitting people to work and


supporting them. We are talking about infrastructure. The North of


Ireland's part of the UK and already does that differently policy wise.


Scotland can do that as well. We can have that transitional period. We do


not want to wake up the day after independence and that nobody in


England gets their benefit payments. That is not correct. Thank


you all very much. We have to leave it there. It has been the final


weekend of campaigning in the Aberdeen Donside by-election. The


parties are now appealing for the poor on Thursday. The oil capital of


Europe has not provided a fiery and energetic debate at local issues


have come to the fore. I caught up with the candidates.


Getting in some early practice for the Aberdeen traffic at this


nursery. The Granite city's transport problems have been a


feature of this campaign. Labour's Will Young has spotted this as a key


issue. He has accused is SNP opponent of failing to stand up for


the city. We are the oil capital of Europe. Our infrastructure is very


important, to the people of Aberdeen. We need to give the


roundabout sorted out. My opponent said it was a priority a few years


ago. Now he says we need to wait until 2019 to sorted out. That is


unacceptable. To the doorsteps of leafy Kings Wells, the Liberal


Democrat says that both Labour and the SNP are giving a transport. She


says the city is not receiving its of cash. What people want is money


invested in Aberdeen. They want to see it getting its fair share. The


SNP and Holyrood art shortchanging Aberdeen to the tune of �21 million


per year. That is money that could be spent on the infrastructure that


we would want to be spent on better roads, keeping schools open. It is a


similar message from the Conservatives. Ross Thomson's a


councillor. He says he has secured more money for monuments like this


and is now fighting for what he calls the forgotten city. It is a


successful city but not successful for all. In down side, we have some


of the highest levels of deprivation. Some of the communities


are in the top 15%. We're not getting our fair should have --


first year of taxes and I would go to Holyrood and tell them to give us


that. Also, the Scottish Greens. A different view. They don't want big


transport projects. We want to concentrate on public transport. We


see that as the way forward. You cannot keep building more and more


roads, more and more bridges. You just increase the traffic and


congestion. It is Friday lunchtime here. Six days to go until the


by-election. Let's see what people are thinking. I have never voted. I


just don't bother any more. Away from SNP, which devoted the last


time. I haven't decided. I am still thinking about it. SNP. Why? I have


been brought up with that, with my family. It is just what we do.


is the Aberdeen Exhibition And Conference Centre. It is -- I


remember the night very clearly in 2003 when the late Brian Adam one


Aberdeen North is a very slim majority over the liver party. It


was a sign of what was to come, the SNP's popularity in this city and


the rest of Scotland. The SNP won a majority in 2011. Their opponents


claim independence has not been mentioned much in this Ambien. Not


true, says Mark O'Donnell. He also rejects claims that he is dithering


on the roundabouts. Apparently, the new bypass has to be constructive


first. The so-called forgotten city of actually receiving �1 billion of


investment, he claims. Brian Adam, of course, received about half the


votes last election are you complacent? Absolutely not. We are


speaking to as many voters as we can. Brian did a huge amount of work


for this constituency, over many years. People are recognising that


on the doorsteps. Many people you speak to will talk about O'Brien


helped them, in one way or another. He a strong legacy of hard work for


this constituency and I want to build on that and make sure that


people continue to receive that representation. It may be a while


until building work starts at the notorious roundabout but this


political merry-go-round only has a few days left to run.


For more information on the Aberdeen Donside by-election, you can visit


very own political editor Brian Taylor. Thanks for joining me.


Before we get to predictions, let's talk about the issues. I learned to


drive on the haddock and roundabout. You can understand why it has been a


big issue that seems to have been the big one. We both have Aberdonian


connections. I started my journalistic career there. It is


totemic for transport services generally, for the bypass, for a


third bridge crossing. It is for more than that. People in other


cities in Scotland would find it absurd given the level of employment


and welfare of other is in Aberdeen but there is also alongside that


wealth, a sense of insecurity, a sense of uncertainty, a sense of


doubt. A sense, perhaps, that they are missing opportunities. Here we


talk about the roundabout, the gardens on the Main Street, and you


just sends Aberdonians feeling that other cities might be taking the


lead. Whether we are modernising more quickly. The local council is


led by Labour and it is whether it is whether to spin to that or


Holyrood. Or, does that in itself to the UK Government? The Liberal


Democrats were the Tories. It is a remarkable by-election with the four


main candidates each having to defend a record in office. As they


go around the doorsteps, they are having to defend the record in


office, whatever that may be. Of course, there are some areas of


deprivation in the city. We speak about its wealth and eyedropper of


Aberdeen so naughty wealth, but there are areas of deprivation. -- I


grew up in Aberdeen so now about the Wells. It is more generally. It is


this curious sense of being bypassed. They are demanding a


bypass but the curious sense of being bypassed. The argument is


whether that is intrinsic within Aberdeen itself. As the city doing


enough itself to stimulate its own economy or is it to external


factors, including the Scottish Government and the UK Government?


You're hearing this argument more and more. This has been a resolutely


local by-election and I give no harm to them for that. There are some big


vocal issues. Not just the roads but the provisional provision of schools


and the general state of the structure of Aberdeen alongside that


being the issue of poverty and deprivation. Each of the candidates


having to address these. Having to address this general feeling. Again,


I see that people in other parts of Scotland would find this incredible,


this general feeling of disquiet. I do not want to overemphasise that


Aberdeen is doing extremely well. Its economy is booming. There is


still that sense of, "is it going to last? " no, the bookies are calling


it for the SNP. Brian Adam had just over half of the vote. Mark McDonald


says he is not complacent. He is not. The SNP will not like that sort


of talk. They will not like the idea that it is a shoo-in for them. They


are defending a large majority will top by Brian Adam. The patch of


Aberdeen North generally has been a very strong Labour territory as


well. Of course, the other parties will be fighting for a share of the


vote. It will be down to who is best able to capture that zeitgeist in


Aberdeen. That idea of standing up for the city. You heard of the


candidates saying that they were going to knock on the First


Minister's door and see... He would have easy access to that! All the


candidates would say they have -- or the ones to do that. What is


Labour's strategy? They are talking about Aberdeen as the forgotten city


and are also being dumb claim the independence card, they are going


around saying that they have to use this opportunity to put a stop on


independence. -- also play the independence card. The issues that


are coming today for a big local constituency issues. It is perfectly


legitimate for those two opposed the SNP to stand against them. A huge


effort by Labour and the SNP. A lot of footsoldiers being often. Over


the period of the contest, for votes, it has been quite remarkable.


They really are pulling out all the two ruin this. Kuipers ins the


SNP's notional overall majority in. It is a big deal. Thank you.


Don't forget, there will be full coverage of the results in a


Newsnight Scotland by-election special at 11pm on Thursday on BBC


Two. Coming up after the news, the week ahead with our guests. Alf


Young and Katie grant will be here. Good afternoon.


David Cameron will hold talks with the Russian president Vladimir


Putin, with the conflict in Syria expected to dominate discussions.


The Russians have suggested that the claims that chemical weapons have


been used or fabricated. -- or fabricated.


Northern Ireland is getting ready. The G8 Summit starts tomorrow. World


leaders to start arriving later today. Syria is like to be the big


talking point. Russia strongly opposes the idea of arming the


opposition there, exactly what the United States, France and the UK are


now considering. The Prime Minister's doing his best to find


common ground with Russia's President Putin, head of their talks


in Downing Street this afternoon. The option we all want is an


international peace conference and an international agreement for a


transitional government in Syria that the Syrian people can have


confidence in and then elections and a new Syrian government. That is


what everybody wants. The disagreement is how we get there.


David Cameron says he has not decided whether to arm decision


rebels. His deputy, Nick Clegg, says he is not decided either but does


not sound convinced. We have taken no decision to provide lethal


assistance. Weak religion not think it is the right thing to do


otherwise would have decided to do it. -- we clearly do not think. What


we are doing is providing only for assistance. As the gathering County


Fermanagh, the question is whether David Cameron could secure the


majority of MPs to send arms if he concludes that is worthwhile. A man


has been arrested after four people, including a police officer, were


stabbed in a mosque in Birmingham late last night. The incident


happened at around 11 o'clock last night. Local people were saying that


there was a dispute in the mosque behind me between two people. One


man was brandishing a knife, two other men went in to try to break up


the altercation. Three people ended up being stabbed. The police


attended afterwords and as they tried to detain the suspect one of


the officers was stabbed. It is important to stress that all of


those injured are in hospital but those injuries are not said to be


life-threatening. A 23-year-old man of Somali appearance is in custody


on suspicion of attempted murder. Police are not treating this as a


suspected hate crime, but we will hear much more at a press conference


in about one hour's time. Hundreds of Turkish police officers have used


tear gas to clear demonstrators from the park in Istanbul with a have


been protesting against Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan. The


move prompted and rest elsewhere in the city, with some people starting


bonfires, and there were demonstrations in other parts of the


country. The bodies of two men have been


recovered by emergency crews searching for two climbers missing


off the coast of Anglesey. The bodies were found in the water at


South Stack near Holyhead. North Wales Police say they have yet to


speculate whether a threatening note found on board a plane travelling


from Cairo to New York is credible. The EgyptAir flight was forced to


make an emergency landing at Prestwick airport yesterday


afternoon after a passenger found a note in a toilet. It shortly


afterwards resumed its journey. Andy Murray will play Marin Cilic


after defeating Jo-Wilfried Tsonga in three sets. The world number two


battle from one set down against the Frenchman and won the last set 6-2.


Final will begin in a few minutes and you can watch it live on this


breaking to allow some spells of sunshine. There will be a scattering


of showers. Not everyone will catch one, but if you do it will be


slow-moving and possibly on the heavy side. Temperatures will be as


high as 19 degrees. That is all from the newsroom for now, I will be back


at ten minutes to seven this evening.


Time to talk about the week that was and take a look at the week ahead.


To do that I have the political commentator Alf Young and Katie


Grant in the studio. Thank you for joining me. We had the debate on


welfare and older people are now more likely to be hit by cuts as the


two bigger parties at Westminster firm up their attitude on welfare.


They think this is likely? I don't like the language of targeting, but


I think there is a huge issue that I think there is a huge issue that


must be It is not just about the bedroom tax, it is about the reality


over the last 30 years that older people are doing rather well


compared to almost every other group in the population. The people doing


worst are those younger than 25. Younger people are starting their


lives with greater disadvantages in terms of finding work and their


earning power compared to when I was that age, so the big issue is the


equity between these different groups and what politicians are


going to do about it. What you saw from the film is that they are not


going to do very much, cause older people will vote for the people who


promised them the most. Katie Grant, you mentioned that Granny is mugging


you. There is a feeling amongst the younger generation that they are


paying a lot of benefits for the older generation. I agree with Alf,


the language is bad and it is going to have to change, because when we


talk about over-65s, these are relatively young people now because


you can live until you are 90. Many people want to work until they are


over 80, so this is a time of transition, but I agree with Alf. It


is not fair for older people, who have benefited from changes since


the war, to now say that younger people must look after themselves. I


know a lot of older people help their grandchildren are a lot, and


that is a good aim and I like the idea of older people helping younger


people, but I don't think they should hold themselves aloof over


what is happening in the world as though they are sacrosanct. The Tory


MSP was saying that as the retirement age edges up we can now


capture these people. Absolutely. We talk about pensioners as if they are


an endangered species. I saw a picture last night, Neil Young and


Crazy Horse at the SEC C. He is not at the stage where he is giving up


work. 1 million people over 65 are still working. Pensioners say, we


are discriminated against because of our age. You can't have it both


ways, you can't be fragile and needy and still get a job. We need to


change the way we think about being old. A big debate lies ahead. The


papers are discussing the Donside collection. -- E-Lites and. --


election. What are your thoughts on this by-election? Unlike you I have


not been there, I see that right up front, but it seems to me it is


quite hard to overturn a 7000 majority in the current climate. The


really interesting question would be how many people vote, because if you


get a very poor results on Thursday it will not look good for the debate


on the referendum because it says that a lot of people have just been


turned off by the whole thing. The other interesting thing about it is


you are getting a sense in Aberdeen of the outer Scotland beginning to


see the same things about the central belt and Edinburgh that we


are currently hearing about Scotland and London. I think this will be


about local issues, not a litmus test on independence. The


interesting thing will be what happens to the smaller parties, they


are more interesting than the bigger parties in this by-election. It will


be very interesting to see the anger directed against the Holyrood


government and what it is not doing for us rather than the UK


Government, so there is a sense that things are becoming more


sophisticated, if you like. Sunday mail says Brown Not Out, Pm


Will Stand Again. If he doesn't, I suspect it is more about being


involved in Kirk day than about being involved in Westminster.


think he will, I think Sarah was saying, stand again, don't stay in


the house all day. Tomorrow Jackie Bird will be hosting a special


Newsnight Scotland debate. She will be joined by an audience of women.


Political magazine presented by Andrew Neil and Andrew Kerr.

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