Browse content similar to 03/11/2013. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Welcome to the Sunday Politics. It began as lead gate and is now about | :00:42. | :00:49. | |
police. The watchdog is reopening an inquiry into three serving officers | :00:50. | :00:52. | |
who helped bring down a cabinet minister as their evidence is | :00:53. | :00:56. | |
branded a work of fiction. They tried to intimidate range modes | :00:57. | :01:01. | |
but in the end, it was the union that capitulated. I will ask about | :01:02. | :01:06. | |
Unite strong-arm tactics at Grangemouth and Falkirk. The preach | :01:07. | :01:14. | |
that women should be sidelined and argue that they are sexual objects | :01:15. | :01:18. | |
that should be covered up. Which one we will ask the Muslim Council of | :01:19. | :01:22. | |
Britain about the veil, attitudes towards women and what they are | :01:23. | :01:24. | |
doing to stop extremism in our midst. And here in Scotland: | :01:25. | :01:28. | |
Are the days of a reassuring figure behind the front counter at your | :01:29. | :01:31. | |
local police stations numbered? The pros and cons of modernising our | :01:32. | :01:32. | |
police service. its staff. | :01:33. | :01:48. | |
With me as always, the best and the brightest political panel, Helen | :01:49. | :01:52. | |
Lewis, Janan Ganesh and Nick Watt who will be tweeting their | :01:53. | :01:55. | |
humiliating climb-down is what they got wrong last week in the | :01:56. | :02:00. | |
programme. If this can happen it to a Cabinet minister, what hope is | :02:01. | :02:07. | |
there for anyone else? Thus the Home Affairs Select Committee concluded | :02:08. | :02:09. | |
what many already thought about the treatment of Andrew Mitchell by | :02:10. | :02:14. | |
three self-styled PC plebs. They met him to clear the air over what did | :02:15. | :02:19. | |
or did not happen when he was prevented from ramming his bike | :02:20. | :02:23. | |
through the Downing Street gates. But the officers gave the media and | :02:24. | :02:27. | |
inaccurate account of that meeting. Two of them are even accused of | :02:28. | :02:33. | |
misleading the Commons committee. The Independent Police Complaints | :02:34. | :02:36. | |
Commission will now reopen there enquiry. This is not a story about | :02:37. | :02:41. | |
Andrew Mitchell, it is about the police. Keith Vaz is often in high | :02:42. | :02:48. | |
dudgeon and this is the highest dad and I have seen him in for some | :02:49. | :02:53. | |
time. They could be held for contempt of Parliament and | :02:54. | :02:55. | |
technically they could be sent to prison. It has blown up into an | :02:56. | :03:01. | |
enormous story. I do not know what is worse, the police trying to | :03:02. | :03:06. | |
stitch up a Cabinet member and try to mislead the media or the | :03:07. | :03:09. | |
incompetence they have done it from day one. That is quite good. I would | :03:10. | :03:18. | |
sleep more soundly at night if I knew the pleas were good at this. It | :03:19. | :03:23. | |
is the incompetence that shocks me. And this is just a sideshow. We are | :03:24. | :03:29. | |
still waiting on the main report as to what exactly happened outside | :03:30. | :03:32. | |
Downing Street gates. But that not will be good for the police either. | :03:33. | :03:37. | |
The file has gone from the Metropolitan police to the CPS, so | :03:38. | :03:42. | |
we are limited about what we can say. This is about the police | :03:43. | :03:48. | |
Federation. They were set up under statute in 1990 as a deal in which a | :03:49. | :03:54. | |
police would not go on strike. This is a political campaign to get a | :03:55. | :03:58. | |
Cabinet minister out and the legacy of this is the police Federation | :03:59. | :04:02. | |
will have to be reformed. We will keep an eye on it. They were Ed | :04:03. | :04:08. | |
Miliband's union backers, they swung the Labour leadership for him in | :04:09. | :04:16. | |
2010. Now the Unite union looks like his biggest headache. The Sunday | :04:17. | :04:19. | |
Times has seen extracts of the report into the alleged vote rigging | :04:20. | :04:23. | |
to select a Labour candidate in Falkirk. There was evidence of | :04:24. | :04:30. | |
coercion and Gregory as well as deliberate attempt to frustrate the | :04:31. | :04:34. | |
enquiry. We will be speaking to Len McCluskey, the Unite union's General | :04:35. | :04:40. | |
Secretary, in a moment. First out the saga began an almost ended up | :04:41. | :04:46. | |
with the loss of 800 jobs at a petrochemical plant in Grangemouth. | :04:47. | :04:50. | |
Unite were key players in the Grangemouth dispute and the union | :04:51. | :04:54. | |
headed by Len McCluskey has come under fire for its intimidator Tariq | :04:55. | :04:59. | |
tactics. In one instance demonstrators complete with an | :05:00. | :05:02. | |
inflatable rat picketed the home of a INEOS director. The police were | :05:03. | :05:10. | |
called. It was part of a strategy the union called leverage. But | :05:11. | :05:16. | |
turning up at people's houses seems to represent an escalation. At the | :05:17. | :05:21. | |
centre of the rout was Steve in deals -- Stephen Denes. INEOS | :05:22. | :05:26. | |
launched an investigation into him as he was suspected of using company | :05:27. | :05:30. | |
time to engineer the selection of labour's candidate in Falkirk. That | :05:31. | :05:35. | |
candidate was Karie Murphy, a friend of Len McCluskey. Stevie Deans | :05:36. | :05:42. | |
resigned last week and denies any wrongdoing, but it capped a dramatic | :05:43. | :05:52. | |
climb-down by Unite union. Len McCluskey joins me now. Thanks to | :05:53. | :05:58. | |
the Sunday Times we now know what is in this labour report on the Falkirk | :05:59. | :06:07. | |
vote rigging. Forgery, coercion, trickery, manipulation. You must be | :06:08. | :06:11. | |
ashamed of how Unite union behaved in Falkirk. The Sunday Times article | :06:12. | :06:19. | |
is lazy journalism. There is nothing new in the article. This was all | :06:20. | :06:23. | |
dealt with by the Labour Party in the summer. We rejected those | :06:24. | :06:29. | |
allegations then and we said we had done nothing wrong and both the | :06:30. | :06:33. | |
Labour Party and the police in Scotland indicated there had been no | :06:34. | :06:38. | |
wrongdoing. The report itself says you were trying to thwart the | :06:39. | :06:44. | |
investigation. First you tried to fix the selection of a candidate to | :06:45. | :06:49. | |
get your woman in and then you thwarted the investigation into the | :06:50. | :06:54. | |
dirty deeds. The reality is the Labour Party report was deeply | :06:55. | :06:59. | |
flawed. The Labour Party then instructed a solicitor, a lawyer, to | :07:00. | :07:06. | |
do an in-depth investigation and during that investigation they got | :07:07. | :07:09. | |
to the bottom of what had happened and they decided there was no | :07:10. | :07:14. | |
wrongdoing whatsoever. At the time I was so confident we had done | :07:15. | :07:20. | |
nothing, I called for an independent enquiry. They were forced to | :07:21. | :07:24. | |
conclude there was no wrongdoing because the people who originally | :07:25. | :07:27. | |
complained changed their evidence and we now know they did so because | :07:28. | :07:32. | |
Unite union officials helped them to rewrite their retraction and Stevie | :07:33. | :07:39. | |
Deans approved it. That is not true. We have had 1000 e-mails thrown into | :07:40. | :07:45. | |
the public arena and what is that all about? Who is leaking this? They | :07:46. | :07:53. | |
showed the Unite union was rewriting the retractions. This interview | :07:54. | :07:59. | |
would go a lot better if you are allowed me to finish the question | :08:00. | :08:04. | |
that you asked. These e-mails were put into the public arena by the PR | :08:05. | :08:12. | |
company from INEOS. Why are they doing this? The truth of the matter | :08:13. | :08:17. | |
is that all of the investigations that took place demonstrate there | :08:18. | :08:21. | |
was nothing to answer. This idea that the Unite union has rewritten | :08:22. | :08:26. | |
and the evidence from the families has been withdrawn, the families are | :08:27. | :08:32. | |
a part of Stevie deems' family. They clarified the position. Do you deny | :08:33. | :08:40. | |
that union officials were involved in the retractions? I deny it | :08:41. | :08:47. | |
completely. This is important. Independent solicitors to witness | :08:48. | :08:50. | |
statements from the family and they are the ones that were influencing | :08:51. | :08:58. | |
the Labour Party with the position is clarified and there is no case to | :08:59. | :09:04. | |
answer. Do you deny Stevie deems saw their retractions? It is his family. | :09:05. | :09:14. | |
So you do not deny it? It is his family. This is an ordinary, decent | :09:15. | :09:18. | |
family who were faced with the full weight of the pleas, a forensic | :09:19. | :09:24. | |
solicitor. Of course they spoke to Stevie Deans. This whole thing is a | :09:25. | :09:31. | |
cesspit. Does it not need an independent investigation? This is a | :09:32. | :09:37. | |
trap being laid by Tory Central office. They are making all the | :09:38. | :09:42. | |
demands. The media, the Daily Mail, the Sunday Times, the Conservative | :09:43. | :09:48. | |
mouthpiece, they are laying tracks for Ed Miliband and Ed Miliband | :09:49. | :09:56. | |
should not fall into them. Since when did it become part of an | :09:57. | :10:00. | |
industrial dispute to send mobs to the home of company families. This | :10:01. | :10:09. | |
is a legitimate form of protest and it is a silent protest. We believe | :10:10. | :10:16. | |
if faceless directors are making decisions that cripple communities, | :10:17. | :10:20. | |
they cannot expect to simply drift back to their own leafy suburbia and | :10:21. | :10:28. | |
not be countable. This is silent protest. It is lawful. It may be | :10:29. | :10:35. | |
silent in Grangemouth, but it was not silent elsewhere. You went with | :10:36. | :10:40. | |
a giant rat, loud-hailers telling everybody the neighbour was evil. | :10:41. | :10:48. | |
No, we did not. You had loud-hailers, you even encouraged | :10:49. | :10:53. | |
passing children in Grangemouth to join in. That is nonsense. Look at | :10:54. | :11:05. | |
the rat. The reality is the Grangemouth community was going to | :11:06. | :11:08. | |
be decimated, Grangemouth was going to become a ghost town. I reject | :11:09. | :11:15. | |
totally this idea there were loud-hailers and children involved. | :11:16. | :11:19. | |
That is a lie perpetrated by the Daily Mail. But you have used these | :11:20. | :11:26. | |
tactics in other disputes. We have used the tactics in other disputes, | :11:27. | :11:33. | |
but we have not used loud-hailers at people's homes. Because the labour | :11:34. | :11:39. | |
laws are so restrictive we have to look at every available means that | :11:40. | :11:44. | |
we can protest. It is an outrage, an absolute outrage, that this is | :11:45. | :11:49. | |
happening to British workers in the 21st-century. It could not happen | :11:50. | :11:56. | |
elsewhere. Is not intimidation the wider hallmark of your union? You | :11:57. | :12:01. | |
were quoted as saying to do whatever it takes during your attempts to | :12:02. | :12:06. | |
take over the Labour Falkirk constituency. You were instructing | :12:07. | :12:14. | |
to dig out the nasty stuff on your opponents. That is not true. Let's | :12:15. | :12:24. | |
see these e-mails? This is a con trick. Nobody is looking to dig | :12:25. | :12:29. | |
out... This is the words of your legal services advisor. Unite has | :12:30. | :12:36. | |
tried to instigate a revival of trade union values within the Labour | :12:37. | :12:41. | |
Party. That is what Ed Miliband wanted us to do. As soon as we | :12:42. | :12:46. | |
started to be in any way ineffective, there were screams and | :12:47. | :12:52. | |
howls of derision. When the company started to investigate Stevie Deans, | :12:53. | :12:57. | |
your friend, your campaign manager, that he was using company time to | :12:58. | :13:02. | |
moonlight on the job, you called INEOS and said unless you stop the | :13:03. | :13:06. | |
investigation we will bring Grangemouth to a standstill. I never | :13:07. | :13:13. | |
said that at all. You brought it to a standstill. We never brought it to | :13:14. | :13:22. | |
a standstill, the company did. Who says that I said that we would bring | :13:23. | :13:27. | |
it to a standstill? You have read it in the newspapers. You should not | :13:28. | :13:32. | |
believe everything. I did not make that threat to the management. You | :13:33. | :13:38. | |
carried the threat out. You instigated an overtime ban and a | :13:39. | :13:45. | |
work to rule. And that is what Grangemouth to a standstill because | :13:46. | :13:48. | |
the company decided to close the petrochemical site down. Because | :13:49. | :13:54. | |
Stevie Deans was suspended due introduced industrial action? Our | :13:55. | :14:00. | |
members in Grangemouth felt he was being unfairly treated. In the end | :14:01. | :14:07. | |
you're grandstanding almost cost Scotland is most important | :14:08. | :14:11. | |
industrial facility. The day was saved by your total capitulation. | :14:12. | :14:17. | |
Grandstanding, capitulation and humiliation are grand phrases. There | :14:18. | :14:25. | |
is nothing about capitulation. Len McCluskey did not wake up one day | :14:26. | :14:29. | |
and decide to have a dispute with INEOS. The workers in that factory | :14:30. | :14:36. | |
democratically elect their shop stewards to represent them and to | :14:37. | :14:39. | |
express to management their concerns and their views. That is what | :14:40. | :14:47. | |
happened with INEOS. Jack Straw has condemned your union's handling of | :14:48. | :14:51. | |
Grangemouth as a catastrophe. Have you considered your position? Jack | :14:52. | :14:57. | |
Straw and others in the Labour Party, you have to ask them what | :14:58. | :15:01. | |
their agenda is. I am not interested in what he says. The truth of the | :15:02. | :15:07. | |
matter is we responded to the requirements and needs of our | :15:08. | :15:14. | |
members. At a mass meeting last Monday 100% supported their shop | :15:15. | :15:19. | |
stewards and their union. We will continue to stand shoulder to | :15:20. | :15:23. | |
shoulder with our members when they are faced with difficult situations. | :15:24. | :15:28. | |
You have lost all the union rights. You have had to agree to a no strike | :15:29. | :15:36. | |
rule, you have lost pension rights. We have not lost rights at all, we | :15:37. | :15:41. | |
are still working with the company to implement its survival plan. The | :15:42. | :15:46. | |
Prime Minister is always attacking unions and just lately he has taken | :15:47. | :15:50. | |
to praising the automotive industry. Jaguar Land Rover, | :15:51. | :15:57. | |
Foxhall, BMW at Cowley, they are all Unite union members were the shop | :15:58. | :16:03. | |
stewards are engaged positively to implement survival plans and to make | :16:04. | :16:07. | |
a success for the company. That is what we do, but by the same token we | :16:08. | :16:12. | |
stand shoulder to shoulder with our members who are in struggle and we | :16:13. | :16:16. | |
will always do that and we will not be cowed by media attacks on us. Is | :16:17. | :16:23. | |
your leadership not proving to be as disastrous for the members as Arthur | :16:24. | :16:36. | |
Scargill was for the NUM? My membership is growing. I am | :16:37. | :16:41. | |
accountable to my members, two are executive, and the one thing they | :16:42. | :16:45. | |
will know is that when they want me standing shoulder to shoulder with | :16:46. | :16:49. | |
them when they have a problem, I will be there, despite the | :16:50. | :16:53. | |
disgraceful attacks launched on us by the media. | :16:54. | :17:07. | |
"A country ready to welcome your investment which values your | :17:08. | :17:09. | |
friendship and will never exclude anyone because of their race, | :17:10. | :17:12. | |
religion, colour or creed." The words of the Prime minister at the | :17:13. | :17:14. | |
World Islamic Economic Forum which was hosted for the first time in | :17:15. | :17:18. | |
London this week. The PM's warm words are sure to be welcomed by | :17:19. | :17:21. | |
British Muslims who have endured a spate of negative headlines. There's | :17:22. | :17:24. | |
been the controversy over the wearing of the veil, attitudes to | :17:25. | :17:26. | |
women, and the radicalisation of some young British Muslims. In a | :17:27. | :17:29. | |
moment I'll be talking to the Secretary General of the Muslim | :17:30. | :17:32. | |
Council of Britain, Farooq Murad. First - here's Giles Dilnot. The | :17:33. | :17:43. | |
call to Friday prayers at the east London Mosque which has strong links | :17:44. | :17:47. | |
with the Muslim Council of Britain, one of the more vocal groups amongst | :17:48. | :17:52. | |
British Muslims. Despite the fact it frequently happens, it is neither | :17:53. | :17:57. | |
helpful nor accurate to describe the British Muslim community. There are | :17:58. | :18:01. | |
so many different sects, traditions, cultures and | :18:02. | :18:06. | |
nationalities, it is more accurate to describe the British Muslim | :18:07. | :18:09. | |
communities, but there is one question being put to them - are | :18:10. | :18:13. | |
they doing enough internally to address some challenging issues? Are | :18:14. | :18:23. | |
they willing to confront radicalisation, attitudes to | :18:24. | :18:27. | |
non-muslins, two women, and cases of sexual exploitation in a meaningful | :18:28. | :18:32. | |
way? A number of them say no, not nearly enough. This former jihad de | :18:33. | :18:41. | |
has spent ten years telling young Muslim teenagers how they can reject | :18:42. | :18:46. | |
extremist radicalisation, using Outward Bound courses and community | :18:47. | :18:50. | |
work, but he and others doing this work thing -- think some elders are | :18:51. | :19:02. | |
failing the youngsters. This has been going on for decades, one | :19:03. | :19:11. | |
figures -- thing is said in public to please people but in private | :19:12. | :19:15. | |
something very different is being said and the messages are being | :19:16. | :19:21. | |
confused. Some of the young people, it pushes them further into a space | :19:22. | :19:27. | |
where they are vulnerable for radical recruiters. For many Muslim | :19:28. | :19:34. | |
youngsters, life is about living 1's faith within an increasingly secular | :19:35. | :19:39. | |
society, a struggle not helped if rigid interpretations of the Koran | :19:40. | :19:42. | |
are being preached, say some sectors. Some practices often don't | :19:43. | :19:54. | |
make sense in 21st-century Britain, and you are perhaps creating | :19:55. | :19:58. | |
obstacles if you stick to those and it is perhaps better to let go of | :19:59. | :20:01. | |
those cultural problems, especially when they need to clear injustices | :20:02. | :20:08. | |
like forced marriage, reticence to talk about grooming for example, or | :20:09. | :20:12. | |
discrimination against women. There is a long list but I am very clear | :20:13. | :20:17. | |
that in fact the bad Muslim is the one who sticks to unflinching, | :20:18. | :20:25. | |
narrow dogmatic fundamentalist perception of religion. One issue | :20:26. | :20:31. | |
often focused on is the wearing of minicab. Polling suggests 80% of | :20:32. | :20:39. | |
Britons would favour a ban in public places. -- the niqab. Many people | :20:40. | :20:55. | |
don't seem to recognise the legacy of the niqab. Many people preach | :20:56. | :21:07. | |
that women should be sidelined and that they are sexual objects that | :21:08. | :21:10. | |
should be covered up and the preservation of morality falls on | :21:11. | :21:15. | |
their shoulders. The Muslim Council of Britain recently got praise for | :21:16. | :21:19. | |
holding a conference on combating sexual exploitation. In the wake of | :21:20. | :21:25. | |
abuse cases that had involved predominantly Pakistani men. For one | :21:26. | :21:29. | |
man who has followed the story for some years, the Muslim Council of | :21:30. | :21:36. | |
Britain needs to do much more. We need to get along together and if | :21:37. | :21:42. | |
things like attitudes towards the normal slim girl in stark contrast | :21:43. | :21:50. | |
to the expression of honour and chastity of the Muslim girl, your | :21:51. | :21:54. | |
sister or daughter, are such that actions that would be an fought off | :21:55. | :22:00. | |
with a slim girl becomes permissible with a white girl, then we are all | :22:01. | :22:07. | |
in trouble. To some, attitudes to women are not limited to sexual | :22:08. | :22:12. | |
interactions at the very structures of life in Muslim communities and | :22:13. | :22:17. | |
indeed the Muslim Council of Britain itself. I would like to ask the | :22:18. | :22:20. | |
Muslim Council of Britain what they are doing about the fact that very | :22:21. | :22:28. | |
few mosques give voices to are doing about the fact that very | :22:29. | :22:36. | |
the fact that someone women are experiencing female genital | :22:37. | :22:38. | |
mutilation and forced marriages, what about the women who are getting | :22:39. | :22:42. | |
married and their marriages are not being registered and they are being | :22:43. | :22:46. | |
left homeless and denied maintenance rights, what about the fact there | :22:47. | :22:51. | |
are sharia rights that have been found to be discriminating against | :22:52. | :22:54. | |
women, and the fact there are men in this country who continue to hold | :22:55. | :22:59. | |
misogynistic views about women, what are you doing? The occasional press | :23:00. | :23:06. | |
release will not solve this problem of a deeply patriarchal community. | :23:07. | :23:11. | |
That all of these issues can be exploited to the point of Islam | :23:12. | :23:15. | |
phobia is not doubted, but many Muslims feel that unless the | :23:16. | :23:21. | |
communities do tackle this openly, a big cultural gap will exist between | :23:22. | :23:28. | |
the two. And the Secretary General of the | :23:29. | :23:31. | |
Muslim Council of Britain, Farooq Murad, joins me now. One visible | :23:32. | :23:36. | |
sign that sets muslins aside is the veils that cover women's faces. Do | :23:37. | :23:45. | |
you think it makes them impossible to be part of mainstream society? | :23:46. | :23:55. | |
The niqab is not an obligatory requirement. But do you accept that | :23:56. | :23:58. | |
those who wear it are cutting themselves off from mainstream | :23:59. | :24:04. | |
society? Some people do, and whilst wearing niqab, some of them are | :24:05. | :24:14. | |
working in various walks of life successfully and it is seen as a | :24:15. | :24:18. | |
faith requirement, but it is a red herring in the sense that it applies | :24:19. | :24:23. | |
to such a small number of Muslim girls. For many Muslim preachers, | :24:24. | :24:28. | |
isn't separation precisely the point of the niqab? Certainly not, if you | :24:29. | :24:38. | |
look at the Muslim women in the public sphere, we have many very | :24:39. | :24:44. | |
successful women. But not the ones who are veiled. Not in the public | :24:45. | :24:55. | |
arena as such, but the veil is a practice which is practised by a | :24:56. | :25:00. | |
very small number. Do you favour it? I personally think it is not a | :25:01. | :25:07. | |
requirement. But do you think women should wear the veil? I think it is | :25:08. | :25:12. | |
wrong to force women to wear the veil. I asked if in your opinion | :25:13. | :25:18. | |
women should wear the veil? It is important not to force women to wear | :25:19. | :25:24. | |
the veil. Should they of their free choice where the veil? A lot of | :25:25. | :25:28. | |
individuals do things out of their free choice which I do not approve | :25:29. | :25:33. | |
of, I don't think it is conducive it helps their cause, but I do not have | :25:34. | :25:38. | |
the right to take their choice away from them. I am still unsure if you | :25:39. | :25:43. | |
think it is a good thing or a bad thing. Are not many Muslim women in | :25:44. | :25:49. | |
this country being forced by Muslim preachers and often their male | :25:50. | :25:53. | |
relations who want to keep Muslim women their place? As I said, it is | :25:54. | :25:57. | |
wrong for anyone to force Muslim women. But how would we ever know in | :25:58. | :26:06. | |
a family if a woman was being forced? Exactly, we don't know what | :26:07. | :26:12. | |
is going on in people 's homes and what pressure is being applied. I | :26:13. | :26:18. | |
want you to look at this picture, very popular on Islamic websites, | :26:19. | :26:22. | |
and it shows the women who is wearing the niqab having a straight | :26:23. | :26:28. | |
route to heaven, and the other Muslim woman dressed in western gear | :26:29. | :26:33. | |
condemned to hell. Do you consider that a proper message for Muslim | :26:34. | :26:41. | |
women? Not at all, I don't. So any Islamic websites in Britain... The | :26:42. | :26:47. | |
Muslim Council of Britain is an organisation of five affiliates from | :26:48. | :26:50. | |
across the country and this is not coming from any of them. As I said, | :26:51. | :26:56. | |
those minority views propagated by individuals should not be used to | :26:57. | :27:02. | |
represent Muslim community. So that would not have the support of the | :27:03. | :27:08. | |
Muslim Council of Britain? It would not have the support. What about the | :27:09. | :27:12. | |
Muslim free school that requires children as young as 11 to wear a | :27:13. | :27:25. | |
black veil outside of school? Do you agree with that? I am not sure | :27:26. | :27:35. | |
exactly what the policy is... I have just told you, do you agree that | :27:36. | :27:44. | |
girls as young as 11 should wear a black burka outside of school? I | :27:45. | :27:49. | |
don't think it should be imposed on anybody. But this is the desired | :27:50. | :28:02. | |
dress School of the Muslim females. I am asking for your view. I said it | :28:03. | :28:06. | |
at the beginning that I do not think it should be imposed. Would you send | :28:07. | :28:13. | |
your daughter to a school that would wear a black burka at the age of 11? | :28:14. | :28:27. | |
Would you? No. It seems that some muslins are determined to segregate | :28:28. | :28:30. | |
young Muslim girls right from the start to very early from society. It | :28:31. | :28:37. | |
is not their segregation as such, I would say that there are faith | :28:38. | :28:46. | |
schools, if you look at an Islamic girls school in Blackburn in a | :28:47. | :28:49. | |
traditional setting, it has come the top of the league table this year in | :28:50. | :28:56. | |
the secondary school league tables. But it doesn't make 11-year-olds | :28:57. | :29:03. | |
wear black burkas. Many of those girls go on to have a successful | :29:04. | :29:10. | |
career. Not wearing black burkas. I am sure there are examples of women | :29:11. | :29:18. | |
who do have successful careers. There is a very conservative | :29:19. | :29:21. | |
movement from the continent on Islam, and the issue supposedly | :29:22. | :29:33. | |
based on Islamic law on their website. Here is one of their recent | :29:34. | :29:41. | |
judgements. The female is encouraged to remain within the confines of her | :29:42. | :29:45. | |
home as much as possible, she should not come out of the home without | :29:46. | :29:49. | |
need and necessity. What do you think of that? We need to say the | :29:50. | :29:55. | |
whole context of that quote. They are saying they should stay at home | :29:56. | :29:59. | |
as much as possible, do you agree with that? I see many Muslim women | :30:00. | :30:12. | |
who are walking about... But this is what the mosque is recommending | :30:13. | :30:17. | |
women should do. The practice is quite the contrary. Let me show you | :30:18. | :30:38. | |
another one. Another Fatwa. Do you agree with that? These have been | :30:39. | :30:43. | |
picked out from material dating back to different cultural settings and | :30:44. | :30:50. | |
in practice they are not applied. This is advice being given as we | :30:51. | :30:57. | |
speak. This is not being practised. Do you agree with it? No, not at | :30:58. | :31:03. | |
all. These are from the DL Monday mosques, how come 72 of these | :31:04. | :31:07. | |
mosques are affiliated to your counsel? There may be publications | :31:08. | :31:25. | |
from one of their scholars, but they have been written in countries | :31:26. | :31:31. | |
abroad and translated. This is advice being given to young women | :31:32. | :31:37. | |
now. They are affiliated to the Muslim Council of Britain. Do you | :31:38. | :31:43. | |
ever speak to them about that? The Muslim Council is a very broad | :31:44. | :31:47. | |
organisation. We are working on lots of common issues to create a | :31:48. | :31:52. | |
community which positively integrates. Did you ever speak to | :31:53. | :32:01. | |
them to say this is not appropriate for British Muslims? There may be | :32:02. | :32:08. | |
certain ad buys and publications available, but people make their | :32:09. | :32:16. | |
choices. So it is OK for your organisation to issue things like | :32:17. | :32:26. | |
that? Many of these things will fall under scrutiny and we need to create | :32:27. | :32:35. | |
that. Why do only 26% of British mosques have facilities for women? | :32:36. | :32:40. | |
If you go back to the requirement of prayer, it was not obligatory for | :32:41. | :32:46. | |
women to come to the masks to prayer. When a poorer community | :32:47. | :32:52. | |
began putting up mosques at the very beginning in terraced houses... Did | :32:53. | :32:59. | |
you have a policy to encourage them? Is it on your website? It is in our | :33:00. | :33:08. | |
practices that 20% of the council have to be female. Coming out of | :33:09. | :33:16. | |
this movement there is a conscious stream of superiority between | :33:17. | :33:22. | |
Muslims and non-Muslims. Look at this quote. He is a well-known | :33:23. | :33:26. | |
picture in this country. That is what he wants to stop. I | :33:27. | :33:51. | |
disagree with that. We believe we live in this society and Muslims in | :33:52. | :33:59. | |
any society of the world, and they have historically lived as | :34:00. | :34:04. | |
minorities in many countries... You would this associate yourself from | :34:05. | :34:10. | |
that? Why do you allow people like that to be affiliated to you? The | :34:11. | :34:18. | |
requirement is for any organisation to be affiliated is that they are | :34:19. | :34:21. | |
bound by the Charity commission's rules and regulations. We only | :34:22. | :34:27. | |
accept those who are under the law of this country. This is a matter of | :34:28. | :34:34. | |
taste. Let me move on to a bigger issue. | :34:35. | :34:50. | |
The Muslim Council of Britain never signed it. You signed it. A member | :34:51. | :35:00. | |
signed it and in the mainstream media defended his position. So you | :35:01. | :35:07. | |
have this associated yourself? We did. What is wrong with that? I am | :35:08. | :35:13. | |
not sure about the Istanbul declaration because we'd | :35:14. | :35:16. | |
disassociated ourselves on the basis... It is associated yourself | :35:17. | :35:21. | |
before reading it? We did not sign it. You have no credit? Edgar Wright | :35:22. | :35:26. | |
I have read it but I cannot recall completely all of the aspects. -- I | :35:27. | :35:34. | |
have read it. At the time, in the national newspapers and media, there | :35:35. | :35:39. | |
was a discussion being made and the person who signed also highlighted | :35:40. | :35:42. | |
and said that that was not what was meant. For how long has your | :35:43. | :35:51. | |
organisation this associated itself from the Istanbul decoration | :35:52. | :35:54. | |
question from day one. It could hardly be from day one. We never | :35:55. | :36:02. | |
signed it. The East London Mosque which you personally and the MCB | :36:03. | :36:07. | |
closely associated with is also the venue for a number of extremist | :36:08. | :36:12. | |
speakers and speakers who is both extremist positions. This year you | :36:13. | :36:24. | |
had was hailed as the gritters of deeds. There was also a presentation | :36:25. | :36:28. | |
by somebody described as an Al-Qaeda supporter. Another had described | :36:29. | :36:33. | |
Christians and Jews as Bill. You have had described Christians and | :36:34. | :36:35. | |
Jews as Bill. You have had a supporter of the Taliban there. Why | :36:36. | :36:41. | |
do you do nothing to stop extremism at this Mosque with which you are | :36:42. | :36:50. | |
associated with? We have no trust for rhetoric which condones or | :36:51. | :36:53. | |
supports violence or extremism. We have issued guidelines and the | :36:54. | :36:57. | |
mosque itself is a registered charity which has its own rules and | :36:58. | :37:01. | |
regulations and procedures but it's a very large mosque and lots of | :37:02. | :37:08. | |
organisations and come and hold gatherings. They rent out the | :37:09. | :37:12. | |
facilities. The mosque have done on... You were prepared to speak | :37:13. | :37:17. | |
alongside a man who saluted suicide bombers and said that 9/11 was not | :37:18. | :37:25. | |
all summer, it was a conspiracy. I do not think I shared a artform. -- | :37:26. | :37:34. | |
a platform. There are different organisations holding lots of | :37:35. | :37:38. | |
different conferences here. Why did you agree? I do not agree with that | :37:39. | :37:44. | |
particular. I comes with the reject. I completely reject that view. I | :37:45. | :37:51. | |
completely reject that view. My final question is the attitude to | :37:52. | :37:56. | |
women, the alliance with the most fundamentalist of Islamic mosques, | :37:57. | :37:59. | |
the toleration of intolerant views, a willingness for you to be counted | :38:00. | :38:04. | |
among them, why should anybody of goodwill, either a Muslim or a | :38:05. | :38:08. | |
non-Muslim, regard organisation as a force for good? It is an | :38:09. | :38:15. | |
organisation which represents all different organisations which are | :38:16. | :38:22. | |
affiliates and a cross-section of the Muslim unity. What you have done | :38:23. | :38:27. | |
is to give the efforts of certain individual views, not the views of | :38:28. | :38:33. | |
affiliates. -- Muslim community. It would be unfair to represent MCB's | :38:34. | :38:41. | |
you with those. The work that we do is quite clear and is there a | :38:42. | :38:45. | |
website. They are all associated with you but we have to leave it | :38:46. | :38:49. | |
Good morning and welcome to Sunday Politics Scotland. Coming up on the | :38:50. | :39:02. | |
programme: Police Scotland want to modernise | :39:03. | :39:05. | |
the service, which means the days of the front desk are numbered. But | :39:06. | :39:08. | |
with recorded crime down, are they actually on the right path? | :39:09. | :39:14. | |
How many do you get a day? We're talking nuisance calls - and what's | :39:15. | :39:18. | |
being done to free up your phone lines from cold callers. I'm just | :39:19. | :39:26. | |
quite rude to people when they get through to me because I don't think | :39:27. | :39:29. | |
they should be doing that. And could trying to impose terms | :39:30. | :39:32. | |
slow down an independent Scotland's bid to become a member of the EU? | :39:33. | :39:36. | |
We'll get an inside view from the latest member state, Croatia. | :39:37. | :39:39. | |
When were you last at a public counter in a police station? Police | :39:40. | :39:45. | |
Scotland say they need to modernise the service and shutting 65 of what | :39:46. | :39:48. | |
they say are little-used counters will help them make efficiency | :39:49. | :39:51. | |
savings of more than ?4 million, a dent in the ?64 million budget | :39:52. | :39:57. | |
shortfall. Senior officers knew it would be a controversial move, but | :39:58. | :40:01. | |
as Andrew Kerr reports, there has been a real backlash against the | :40:02. | :40:11. | |
proposal. It is part of the folklore we | :40:12. | :40:16. | |
associate with the police, the jolly sergeant behind the counter. Times | :40:17. | :40:20. | |
have changed and it appears front desks are a thing of the past, with | :40:21. | :40:25. | |
few people using them. This is one place where the counter could close. | :40:26. | :40:29. | |
This office has been here for as long as I can remember. I am 48 and | :40:30. | :40:33. | |
I remember being here as a child. It is another step in the wrong | :40:34. | :40:39. | |
direction. I believe we have lost our local inspector as well. We are | :40:40. | :40:41. | |
dealt with from six miles away and it is a slippery slope. There are | :40:42. | :40:48. | |
concerns about the new centralised nature of Police Scotland. We are | :40:49. | :40:51. | |
here at the Glasgow policeman see, celebrating the city of Glasgow | :40:52. | :40:56. | |
police, established in 1800, the first force in Britain. -- the | :40:57. | :41:02. | |
Glasgow Police Museum. What about the people that work behind these | :41:03. | :41:07. | |
counters? There are concerns that they could be forced into voluntary | :41:08. | :41:12. | |
redundancy. The support staff are going to be losing their jobs | :41:13. | :41:15. | |
because of these proposals, that is a concern. One of the biggest | :41:16. | :41:19. | |
problem is that we have is that the Scottish Police Authority have | :41:20. | :41:23. | |
allowed the Chief Constable go out to consultation but not to | :41:24. | :41:26. | |
scrutinise what the outcome of that is going to be. The outcome could be | :41:27. | :41:32. | |
the closure of 65 public counters and reduced opening times at others. | :41:33. | :41:38. | |
The police review the service but the Conservative Leader said the | :41:39. | :41:42. | |
review was based on flawed data. Liberal share concerns. Police say | :41:43. | :41:51. | |
they have consulted widely. -- the Liberal Democrats share concerns. | :41:52. | :41:58. | |
Police urged people to keep -- a report urged people to keep well | :41:59. | :42:02. | |
used counters open. They say this is all part of the modernisation of the | :42:03. | :42:05. | |
service. We need to look at the demand, see whether public needed | :42:06. | :42:10. | |
access and then come up with a system that matched demand | :42:11. | :42:16. | |
accordingly. If you look back over the first six or seven months of | :42:17. | :42:20. | |
Police Scotland, the early success we have had is wonderful. | :42:21. | :42:24. | |
Anti-social behaviour is down. Serious violence is down. Robbery is | :42:25. | :42:30. | |
down. But we are not complacent. We still want to do even better. The | :42:31. | :42:33. | |
First Minister blame Westminster cuts and said he was putting | :42:34. | :42:39. | |
resources into the front line at a time when recorded crime is at a 40 | :42:40. | :42:43. | |
year low. The Scottish police iteration take a pragmatic | :42:44. | :42:48. | |
approach. -- the Scottish police Federation. We have to take on some | :42:49. | :42:56. | |
massive challenges. If we look at the closure of counters, I would | :42:57. | :43:05. | |
oppose that. That is a populous thing to do but it does not help | :43:06. | :43:10. | |
reality. This has come at a difficult time in the short life of | :43:11. | :43:14. | |
Police Scotland. It has raised real concerns about local accountability | :43:15. | :43:16. | |
and centralisation. Joining me now in the studio, | :43:17. | :43:19. | |
Scottish Labour's justice spokesperson and former police | :43:20. | :43:21. | |
officer Graeme Pearson, and the SNP's Sandra White - who also sits | :43:22. | :43:25. | |
on the Justice Committee. And in our Aberdeen studio, the justice | :43:26. | :43:27. | |
spokesperson for the Liberal Democrats in Scotland, Alison | :43:28. | :43:32. | |
McInnes. Good afternoon to all of you. Allison, let's start with you. | :43:33. | :43:38. | |
If there is a saving of ?4 million by closing these rarely used front | :43:39. | :43:42. | |
desks, is that not a move worth taking? We have to go back a step | :43:43. | :43:47. | |
and back to first base and ask yourselves what we want form our | :43:48. | :43:51. | |
local police service. Do we want a police service that is rooted in our | :43:52. | :43:56. | |
local communities? That is open and accessible and welcoming? Or are we | :43:57. | :44:00. | |
willing to settle for an increasingly impersonal and faceless | :44:01. | :44:03. | |
organisation? I know what I would want. What we have at the moment is | :44:04. | :44:08. | |
a local police service that values community interaction. It says the | :44:09. | :44:14. | |
doors are open if we need their help or if we can help them. What Police | :44:15. | :44:18. | |
Scotland is proposing is that we turn our backs on community and | :44:19. | :44:23. | |
local stars. Are the police turning their backs by taking this move was | :44:24. | :44:28. | |
to mark absolutely not. We have to be honest. It is a consultation. My | :44:29. | :44:34. | |
understanding is that it has been extended but members of the public | :44:35. | :44:37. | |
wanted to see police on the streets. If you have a fully station with a | :44:38. | :44:41. | |
counter and one person per week has come into that, without policeman | :44:42. | :44:46. | |
not be better out on the street preventing crime than at the | :44:47. | :44:49. | |
counter? -- one police station. Is part of the problem not the | :44:50. | :44:53. | |
admission by the First Minister this week that this was not a | :44:54. | :44:59. | |
comprehensive survey of all the front counters? I understand that | :45:00. | :45:01. | |
the booklet that was given out said it was a snapshot and some of the | :45:02. | :45:08. | |
areas that were not visited was because there was no turnover. I | :45:09. | :45:15. | |
welcome the extension. We have the might -- where people can put their | :45:16. | :45:19. | |
views forward. It is all by preventing crime and the public want | :45:20. | :45:24. | |
police on the streets. We heard from the Scottish police Federation | :45:25. | :45:27. | |
saying that opposition would be populist and easy. Is that the | :45:28. | :45:29. | |
position you find yourself in? Not at all. We were promised by the | :45:30. | :45:35. | |
Government that we would get local policing and that the whole point of | :45:36. | :45:40. | |
having one single force was to enhance and support that outcome. | :45:41. | :45:44. | |
What we have had since is that we have had a withdrawal of services | :45:45. | :45:48. | |
from local endeavours. 1200 jobs have gone behind the scenes. Now, 65 | :45:49. | :45:53. | |
police officers and many more will have short hours of working. But you | :45:54. | :46:03. | |
would not keep a front desk open if Sandra White -- as Sandra White | :46:04. | :46:06. | |
says, there is only one person per week. These are not current | :46:07. | :46:11. | |
statistics. There has not been a lot of work put into it. What we did not | :46:12. | :46:16. | |
get from the proposal was what the alternative is. I phoned the new | :46:17. | :46:24. | |
nonemergency number last week because I wanted to speak to | :46:25. | :46:28. | |
somebody. The call centre and was put on two could not even tell we | :46:29. | :46:34. | |
were he worked and eventually I had to leave word so that they could | :46:35. | :46:37. | |
trace him and get him to comment. We have that number and I have not had | :46:38. | :46:43. | |
a problem and has been to phone. When you talk about communities and | :46:44. | :46:47. | |
what they want, in my two-minute, I have seen the representations they | :46:48. | :46:50. | |
have made to the observation and have read them. -- in my community. | :46:51. | :46:55. | |
Some are saying there is no concern, some are saying there is. The | :46:56. | :46:58. | |
community has been asked, certainly in my area. I do not know if Graham | :46:59. | :47:03. | |
or Alison have looked into what the immunity of that, I have. I have | :47:04. | :47:08. | |
seen it in black and white, that has been sent through. If you have that | :47:09. | :47:13. | |
number, people are on Twitter now, they're an e-mail and what the | :47:14. | :47:16. | |
public say to me is that they want to see police on the streets. I walk | :47:17. | :47:20. | |
along the streets of Glasgow and I see police on the street. The book | :47:21. | :47:24. | |
and go up and speak to them. I think that is where the police are in the | :47:25. | :47:28. | |
communities. -- people can go up and speak to them. With recorded crime | :47:29. | :47:34. | |
at a 40 year low, does that not indicate the position that it will | :47:35. | :47:38. | |
lead to a reduction in crime? Diners at a 40 year low not because of | :47:39. | :47:41. | |
Police Scotland, an organisation that has only been around for six | :47:42. | :47:48. | |
months. -- crime is at a 40 year low. I think it is insulting to | :47:49. | :47:54. | |
civilian staff and to the public to suggest that bobbies on the beat is | :47:55. | :47:57. | |
the answer. That is a very 1-dimensional view of policing. It | :47:58. | :48:04. | |
is quite complex. In which case, saying that people turning up at a | :48:05. | :48:07. | |
front desk could be 1-dimensional. Sandra White has pointed out that | :48:08. | :48:12. | |
there are a myriad of ways of communicating. It is trivial to | :48:13. | :48:14. | |
suggest that people who need the help of police should use the | :48:15. | :48:19. | |
resources of Twitter or Facebook. I think that is trivialising the | :48:20. | :48:25. | |
situation. Sorry, could we also just remind you that it is not about | :48:26. | :48:30. | |
closing all the counters. It is reducing the hours in some cases. I | :48:31. | :48:36. | |
would like to ask them if they had done a survey of who goes out to 30 | :48:37. | :48:41. | |
AM to report something? There are more likely to phone. It is about | :48:42. | :48:45. | |
more than police presence. It is about more than being able to see | :48:46. | :48:49. | |
whether somebody has turned up at the desk. Civilian staff do a great | :48:50. | :48:54. | |
deal more than talk to the public. The important thing is that most of | :48:55. | :48:57. | |
these counters are utilised by support staff. It is not release | :48:58. | :49:01. | |
officers who are going to be released from his offices. People | :49:02. | :49:06. | |
who use these officers are amongst the most probable in a community. | :49:07. | :49:10. | |
The elderly, young people who need some support, from help, some | :49:11. | :49:15. | |
protection. Victims and witnesses who are looking for support. We have | :49:16. | :49:20. | |
places like Easterhouse, Coatbridge, Airdrie, all closing and reducing | :49:21. | :49:27. | |
their hours and yet we are keeping gift neck and Helensburgh open. | :49:28. | :49:31. | |
There does not seem to be a logic behind the way this work has been | :49:32. | :49:34. | |
done and it is being driven by saving money, not by providing | :49:35. | :49:39. | |
service. Saving money is important. Of course. So how would you do it? | :49:40. | :49:44. | |
The Chief Constable has acknowledged in Aberdeen that he does not think | :49:45. | :49:49. | |
he has sufficient budget to continue to support the 1000 additional | :49:50. | :49:52. | |
officers. The budget for that is 35 million. In addition, local | :49:53. | :49:56. | |
authorities applies the board for something like 350 officers. -- | :49:57. | :50:02. | |
apply support. There is a whole range of officers that are there for | :50:03. | :50:07. | |
them and they need to discuss that with communities, rather than a 30 | :50:08. | :50:11. | |
day consultation that if you're today, gone tomorrow and then we | :50:12. | :50:21. | |
move on. -- that is due today. When Steve house was asked that question, | :50:22. | :50:24. | |
did they have enough money, they said they did. Will there have to be | :50:25. | :50:29. | |
some job losses? There is voluntary redundancy. That is not compulsory. | :50:30. | :50:38. | |
We have to remember this. 1200 people have been released by Police | :50:39. | :50:41. | |
Scotland. I cannot believe all of them wanted to leave. They have got | :50:42. | :50:46. | |
a way of saying, we let them go. Do you have concerns, the point that | :50:47. | :50:51. | |
was being made is, this is not closure of 65 front desks but a | :50:52. | :50:55. | |
reduction of hours. Do you have concerns that this will be get above | :50:56. | :50:59. | |
the iceberg, that has the years progress there will be more of | :51:00. | :51:05. | |
these? Once the doors are locked to the public, it will not be long | :51:06. | :51:08. | |
after that until someone says, we don't actually need these police | :51:09. | :51:11. | |
stationed at all. We can deploy from a regional base. We see asset | :51:12. | :51:16. | |
stripping of our local communities and that is dangerous, I am | :51:17. | :51:19. | |
suggesting that the lease Scotland call a halt at the moment and go | :51:20. | :51:22. | |
back to first base and quick communities about what they think. | :51:23. | :51:29. | |
Do you have ideas of how you would save money? Because that is | :51:30. | :51:33. | |
necessary. The Liberal Democrats have always said that the kind of | :51:34. | :51:35. | |
savings that the SNP anticipated they would make would not be | :51:36. | :51:43. | |
achievable without swinging cuts to what we have been used to in the | :51:44. | :51:46. | |
police service and I think we need to take a step back from that. You | :51:47. | :51:50. | |
think there will be more closures as time goes by? I don't imagine there | :51:51. | :51:58. | |
would be. We have got to look at crime, it is that a 40 year low. | :51:59. | :52:02. | |
More police on the street, that is what the public want. The public | :52:03. | :52:09. | |
certainly tell me that they like to see police on the street. We will | :52:10. | :52:12. | |
have to leave things there. And you for your time. Have you claimed back | :52:13. | :52:20. | |
your PPI insurance, signed up for double glazing or been in an | :52:21. | :52:23. | |
accident recently? Nuisance calls and spam texts have been the subject | :52:24. | :52:26. | |
of 240,000 complaints to the Information Commissioner's Office in | :52:27. | :52:29. | |
the past 18 months alone. -- thank you for your time. This week, an | :52:30. | :52:31. | |
all-party parliamentary group at Westminster released its report into | :52:32. | :52:34. | |
the issue and a Private Members' Bill was raised by Lib Dem MP Mike | :52:35. | :52:39. | |
Crockart. Cameron Buttle has more. Some estimates put the number of | :52:40. | :52:44. | |
nuisance calls into the millions. Everything from selling double | :52:45. | :52:46. | |
glazing, wanting to know if you have had an accident to scams and cons. I | :52:47. | :52:54. | |
work in a call centre. I make those phone calls. But I get them at home | :52:55. | :53:00. | |
a lot. So you work in a call centre and you get them at home as well? | :53:01. | :53:04. | |
How does that make you feel? Not good. I get angry at them, so to be | :53:05. | :53:12. | |
the person doing them is not good. I am quite rude to people when they | :53:13. | :53:15. | |
get through to me because I don't think they should be doing that. Why | :53:16. | :53:21. | |
not? It is a violation of my space and time. One man has been calling | :53:22. | :53:29. | |
me from the South African diamond exchange. I have tried to explain | :53:30. | :53:33. | |
that I have no money, I invested in property five years ago, and he | :53:34. | :53:37. | |
keeps calling me. He called me during the Manchester City game last | :53:38. | :53:42. | |
week. It did not go down well. That is all I can say. Of course it is | :53:43. | :53:48. | |
not just at home when we are subjected to the nuisance phone | :53:49. | :53:51. | |
calls because mobile phones are being targeted just as much, with | :53:52. | :53:56. | |
cold and texts. One MP behind this report claims the public is now | :53:57. | :53:59. | |
under siege from nuisance phone calls. He said there. Matt that if | :54:00. | :54:05. | |
nothing is done, the problem is going to get worse. The best figures | :54:06. | :54:08. | |
we can come up with is from an Ofcom study. -- he said that if nothing is | :54:09. | :54:17. | |
done. We have asked people to record when they get these calls. The | :54:18. | :54:22. | |
figures are frightening. The size of the problem could well be over 1 | :54:23. | :54:26. | |
billion nuisance calls and text messages per year in the United | :54:27. | :54:30. | |
Kingdom. The report from the all-party Parliamentary group made | :54:31. | :54:34. | |
many recommendations. They include tightening the rules of the consent | :54:35. | :54:37. | |
when people agree to be contacted by marketing companies. Making | :54:38. | :54:43. | |
reporting easy and more effective, strategy to protect vulnerable | :54:44. | :54:45. | |
customers, improving international cooperation. Call to action have | :54:46. | :54:52. | |
been echoed by organisations like Which magazine which welcomed the | :54:53. | :54:55. | |
report as it says the current system is failing and called for the law to | :54:56. | :55:00. | |
be strengthened. The Private Members' Bill was due to be debated | :55:01. | :55:06. | |
on Friday, but it got talked out by the preceding debate. So does that | :55:07. | :55:10. | |
mean we are forever to be plagued by nuisance calls on our home phones | :55:11. | :55:13. | |
and mobiles? Well, joining me now is Ken Macdonald from the Information | :55:14. | :55:15. | |
Commissioner's Office. Good afternoon. RU disappointed that that | :55:16. | :55:18. | |
Private Members' Bill did not get anywhere on Friday? Very | :55:19. | :55:21. | |
disappointed that it was talked out and I understand there is an | :55:22. | :55:23. | |
opportunity it will be brought in it this month. The nuisance calls and | :55:24. | :55:29. | |
span text messages are a huge part of the work of the ICO. We have had | :55:30. | :55:37. | |
a quarter of a million complaints in the last 18 months. It is an thing | :55:38. | :55:41. | |
that hits every one day to day, whether they are at work or at home, | :55:42. | :55:45. | |
I telephone or text message. What action specifically was in that bill | :55:46. | :55:51. | |
that you would like to see enacted? The important thing is that they | :55:52. | :55:54. | |
threshold for us to take enforcement action is rather high. It is to show | :55:55. | :55:59. | |
absolute distress and often a text message or a phone call is it deemed | :56:00. | :56:04. | |
to be too low a level. What Mike Crockart was proposing was to lower | :56:05. | :56:07. | |
that threshold to more of the nuisance one and we support that. | :56:08. | :56:10. | |
One of the problems we have had recently is that we levied a fine of | :56:11. | :56:18. | |
over ?440,000 to a partnership which was spamming text messages. | :56:19. | :56:23. | |
Unfortunately, they appealed and the tribunal held that the threshold had | :56:24. | :56:29. | |
not been met despite the millions of text messages being sent out. Is | :56:30. | :56:32. | |
there a place for this kind of marketing? Yes. We recognise that | :56:33. | :56:39. | |
companies need to market, it is part of the business process, but they | :56:40. | :56:42. | |
have to do it in an appropriate way and again, in reaction to the | :56:43. | :56:49. | |
problems people are having, and more awareness of these issues, we have | :56:50. | :56:53. | |
recently produced more guidance to companies that are involved in | :56:54. | :56:56. | |
direct marketing about how they should be processing that. Does it | :56:57. | :57:02. | |
actually work? Is anyone actually purchasing South African diamonds | :57:03. | :57:05. | |
when you are busy at home making your cup of tea? Tell I cannot say | :57:06. | :57:10. | |
whether it works or not. I hope people would understand whether | :57:11. | :57:14. | |
there is a scam cult. It is the absolute intrusion that is taking | :57:15. | :57:17. | |
place. The interruption of your normal domestic life I a call -- by | :57:18. | :57:26. | |
a call for PPI or something. It is intrusive and something that needs | :57:27. | :57:30. | |
to be stopped. The companies that are involved and it will possibly | :57:31. | :57:33. | |
lose more customers than they gain by the way they are doing it. You | :57:34. | :57:38. | |
have some responsibility, the Information Commissioner's Office, | :57:39. | :57:41. | |
in terms of dealing with this but Ofgem have a role too. Is that part | :57:42. | :57:45. | |
of the problem. If that governance and issue? I suspect there is an | :57:46. | :57:52. | |
element of it but we also work with Ofcom and we are working with | :57:53. | :57:55. | |
international partners as well because a lot of these calls are | :57:56. | :58:00. | |
generated from overseas. And we are involved with our European partners | :58:01. | :58:03. | |
and also with US and Canadian authorities looking at ways we can | :58:04. | :58:07. | |
do this on an international basis. The reason that you and Ofcom are | :58:08. | :58:10. | |
involved is because the governance and a lots are quite specific. -- | :58:11. | :58:22. | |
the laws. That is right. We deal with electronic unification is that | :58:23. | :58:25. | |
specify what companies can and cannot do in relation to calls and | :58:26. | :58:29. | |
text messages and e-mails. You mentioned your annoyance that he | :58:30. | :58:33. | |
tribunal not actually following through and prosecuting a company. | :58:34. | :58:39. | |
How many companies are actually held to the end contempt of these laws? | :58:40. | :58:43. | |
Tell I cannot give you the precise numbers. We take action against the | :58:44. | :58:55. | |
most prolific offenders. Their is the worst case so far. We find | :58:56. | :59:01. | |
another company ?250,000. -- Tetris is the worst case. Another company | :59:02. | :59:09. | |
was fined ?90,000. We see a decrease in number of complaints made to | :59:10. | :59:12. | |
others after such an action, we suspect that because companies are | :59:13. | :59:16. | |
aware that the action we can take. To you think sometimes the public at | :59:17. | :59:19. | |
unwittingly giving permission or these calls and text to happen? If | :59:20. | :59:24. | |
you look at competitions on television, there is bald print that | :59:25. | :59:28. | |
says, they now in full at the end of your text to prevent this ban. -- | :59:29. | :59:38. | |
they say no information at the end of the text to prevent this sit am. | :59:39. | :59:44. | |
There is confusion because some will ask you if you want to opt into | :59:45. | :59:52. | |
marketing. -- this spam. We are trying to raise awareness with | :59:53. | :59:55. | |
organisations and through the direct marketing Association, better ways | :59:56. | :00:02. | |
of making this clear for the customers as to what they are | :00:03. | :00:06. | |
signing up for. To you receive the calls? Yes. I understand the | :00:07. | :00:12. | |
nuisance. It is very interesting. Thank you very much for talking to | :00:13. | :00:16. | |
us. Croatia's ambassador to the UK has | :00:17. | :00:19. | |
warned that trying to impose terms could slow down an independent | :00:20. | :00:23. | |
Scotland's bid to become a member of the EU. Croatia became the 28th | :00:24. | :00:28. | |
member of the club in July. The Scottish Government says | :00:29. | :00:31. | |
negotiations could be concluded by spring 2016 if Scots vote for | :00:32. | :00:34. | |
independence next year. But the ambassador, Ivan Grdesic, said | :00:35. | :00:36. | |
seeking opt-outs from EU rules could prolong the process. | :00:37. | :00:47. | |
In July, Croatia became the 28th member of the European Union. It | :00:48. | :00:52. | |
took 13 years for this country of over 4 million people to emerge from | :00:53. | :00:55. | |
the Balkan wars to become a full member of the European club. Before | :00:56. | :01:01. | |
Croatia could become the European Union's latest member, they had to | :01:02. | :01:04. | |
negotiate with the other countries in the union. Today their ambassador | :01:05. | :01:07. | |
to the UK came to tell members of the Scottish Parliament and is done. | :01:08. | :01:11. | |
After speaking to them, the ambassador stopped in for a word | :01:12. | :01:16. | |
with the Sunday Politics. What is the key to being successful in those | :01:17. | :01:19. | |
negotiations? What advice would you offer to other countries trying to | :01:20. | :01:25. | |
do that? Our experience is that it is really not a negotiation process. | :01:26. | :01:29. | |
You are actually joining the club that already has all the rules, or | :01:30. | :01:33. | |
the regulations that you have to adopt. The question is how you will | :01:34. | :01:39. | |
adopt them and what kind of a time frame you are working too, with what | :01:40. | :01:42. | |
conditions and how you can sort of adopt them into your core of rules | :01:43. | :01:48. | |
and regulations and institutions or arrangements. The Scottish | :01:49. | :01:54. | |
Government said Scotland can take a fast track to EU membership. They | :01:55. | :01:59. | |
say negotiations on issues like currency could be completed by | :02:00. | :02:03. | |
spring 2016. But Croatia's man in London said securing those issues | :02:04. | :02:17. | |
could tie Scotland down. You want to have a balance between how much you | :02:18. | :02:20. | |
want to opt out or prolong and what you can take right away because if | :02:21. | :02:25. | |
you decide to prolong many things or ask for exceptions on many issues, | :02:26. | :02:30. | |
you are not ready actually. So for us it has been a balance between | :02:31. | :02:34. | |
these two things and I think it is important to understand this and I | :02:35. | :02:41. | |
remember reading a study that my Austrian colleagues told me, this is | :02:42. | :02:47. | |
not a negotiation, it is something else. After voting and independence, | :02:48. | :02:51. | |
Croatia had a separate referendum on the EU. The Scottish Government has | :02:52. | :02:54. | |
no plans to follow their example. Despite the recent crisis, Ivan | :02:55. | :02:59. | |
Grdesic says that Europe will welcome new members. -- will welcome | :03:00. | :03:05. | |
new members. He says getting in will only get tougher. This is a policy | :03:06. | :03:09. | |
that will continue. It will be a policy that is more stringent than | :03:10. | :03:13. | |
the one that we experienced. We had a much tougher negotiation process, | :03:14. | :03:20. | |
Romania, Bulgaria. The new countries will have even more. The European | :03:21. | :03:23. | |
Union is learning on a process of enlargement. SNP ministers insist | :03:24. | :03:30. | |
that Scotland is not a new country. But with no direct precedent to | :03:31. | :03:33. | |
guide them, those planning for Scotland to become the EU's 29th | :03:34. | :03:37. | |
member and listening carefully on the 28th. | :03:38. | :03:44. | |
Coming up after the news: More on what's making the headlines this | :03:45. | :03:47. | |
weekend with our guests - former Labour special adviser Jeane Freeman | :03:48. | :03:50. | |
and Stephen McGinty of the Scotsman. You're watching Sunday Politics | :03:51. | :03:53. | |
Scotland and the time is just after midday. Let's cross now for the news | :03:54. | :03:57. | |
from Reporting Scotland with Andrew Kerr. | :03:58. | :04:03. | |
Good afternoon. The Justice Secretary has announced an | :04:04. | :04:06. | |
investment of ?3 million in the services and facilities for women | :04:07. | :04:12. | |
offenders. The money will be used to establish new community justice | :04:13. | :04:15. | |
centres in Glasgow and Aberdeen, as well as expand services in Edinburgh | :04:16. | :04:17. | |
and Dundee. Seven other projects will also receive funding. | :04:18. | :04:21. | |
The constituency Labour Party in Falkirk will meet this afternoon for | :04:22. | :04:24. | |
the first time since the chairman resigned from his post at Ineos. | :04:25. | :04:29. | |
Steven Deans was at the centre of the Grangemouth industrial dispute | :04:30. | :04:32. | |
last month. He'd been suspended while Ineos investigated his | :04:33. | :04:35. | |
involvement in the row over the selection of a Labour candidate in | :04:36. | :04:38. | |
the Falkirk Westminster constituency. | :04:39. | :04:45. | |
An Edinburgh GP who wrote a book after spending fourteen months at a | :04:46. | :04:48. | |
research station in the south pole has won Scotland's largest literary | :04:49. | :04:51. | |
prize. Gavin Francis won the thirty-thousand pounds Scottish | :04:52. | :04:53. | |
Mortgage Investment Trust Book of the Year for "Empire Antarctica". | :04:54. | :05:04. | |
Let's take a look at the weather forecast. | :05:05. | :05:08. | |
Good afternoon. I think today we see the transition into more settled | :05:09. | :05:11. | |
weather. Tomorrow will be a fine day. For most it is dry and bright, | :05:12. | :05:17. | |
good sunshine as well. We still have some of yesterday's rain across this | :05:18. | :05:20. | |
piece corner. It will affect the Northern Isles. A touch of gale | :05:21. | :05:26. | |
force winds at times. Sunshine along the West Coast brought in by that | :05:27. | :05:31. | |
wind. It will feel cool in that brisk wind, everywhere, with highs | :05:32. | :05:35. | |
of eight or nine Celsius but make the most of the sunshine. | :05:36. | :05:41. | |
That is all for the moment. Thanks, Andrew. Now in a moment, | :05:42. | :05:44. | |
we'll be discussing what's making the news at Holyrood and beyond, but | :05:45. | :05:48. | |
first, let's take a look back at the week in 60 seconds. | :05:49. | :05:58. | |
Scotland is habits of Internet exchange point, a giant Google will | :05:59. | :06:04. | |
be located in Edinburgh, spindles and London, and then Manchester. | :06:05. | :06:11. | |
The left Karen Hilton was sworn in at Holyrood. She won at the | :06:12. | :06:19. | |
Dunfermline 31 week ago. -- new MSP Karen Hilton. | :06:20. | :06:23. | |
Universities were disrupted by a 24-hour strike. Support the strike! | :06:24. | :06:32. | |
Nicolas and support staff took the action over pay. | :06:33. | :06:36. | |
It may be years before taxpayers can recover their multi-billion pound | :06:37. | :06:41. | |
stake in the Royal Bank of Scotland. Toxic assets but they were incensed. | :06:42. | :06:48. | |
Referendum in we'll contact the following powers has been proposed | :06:49. | :06:57. | |
by the British Government. The Welsh minister says it cannot happen | :06:58. | :07:02. | |
before the Barnett formula is on. -- is the following. | :07:03. | :07:05. | |
From the week gone by to the week ahead, and our take on the stories | :07:06. | :07:08. | |
that might make political ripples over the next seven days. | :07:09. | :07:19. | |
Join me in the studio is Stephen McGinty from the Scotsman and public | :07:20. | :07:25. | |
relations consultant. Good afternoon. Let's talk a little bit | :07:26. | :07:29. | |
about policing, the issue that the talking about at the beginning of | :07:30. | :07:38. | |
the programme. This is art. In 65 -- front desk or two close in 65 | :07:39. | :07:47. | |
officers. Is the finishing with the public? Is not think so. Luckily the | :07:48. | :07:53. | |
third but crime and people in the law and figures for them. What has | :07:54. | :07:57. | |
moved ahead is the perception of the body on the beat of the uniformed | :07:58. | :08:01. | |
officer behind the counter. -- Bea Barclay on the beat. Number of | :08:02. | :08:04. | |
people using these facilities has brought down. With technologies, | :08:05. | :08:11. | |
Internet, e-mail, phone calls, Twitter, all of us are discovering | :08:12. | :08:16. | |
that you can sometimes get a swifter response than from driving in your | :08:17. | :08:21. | |
car, tracking down one of these stations and making the appointment. | :08:22. | :08:26. | |
I think that everyone's nature to automatically put any form of cuts | :08:27. | :08:30. | |
but if they have to be made, it would seem that this is one area | :08:31. | :08:36. | |
that there is some give. I wonder if you would agree with that? I do. I | :08:37. | :08:39. | |
think it is about the police catching up with the most people in | :08:40. | :08:45. | |
Scotland are. Of course, if you are in an emergency situation, you phone | :08:46. | :08:50. | |
naming them. Nobody is taking that away. -- before the emergency | :08:51. | :08:55. | |
services. Also you can phone the nonemergency number. The thing that | :08:56. | :08:59. | |
people forget is that people now do what they call the codes. If I not | :09:00. | :09:07. | |
without an emergency but about a bit of a concern about children in my | :09:08. | :09:13. | |
area or anti-social behaviour, and I wanted to speak to the police about | :09:14. | :09:16. | |
that now working, they will make an appointment to come and see me in | :09:17. | :09:22. | |
five developed. House calls. --, and see me in my home. They do". The | :09:23. | :09:33. | |
idea that this is something away from local policing could not be | :09:34. | :09:38. | |
further from the truth. There are all sorts of ways that they lead a | :09:39. | :09:41. | |
life that the police to come up with -- catch up with. Let's talk about | :09:42. | :09:48. | |
Grangemouth at Falkirk. This is the rumbling on. The Sunday Herald have | :09:49. | :09:53. | |
what they say is an exclusive party members telling Johann Lamont to | :09:54. | :09:59. | |
break her silence. There is to be as meeting today. They called for her | :10:00. | :10:04. | |
to climb out of that meeting. We spoke to her and she is not growing. | :10:05. | :10:09. | |
-- because of how to turn up at that meeting. We think she has been | :10:10. | :10:14. | |
silent? I do. I know that she has given an exclusive interview to | :10:15. | :10:17. | |
another paper. The problem is that people like us, they pay a lot of | :10:18. | :10:21. | |
attention to some of the detail about this and the vast majority of | :10:22. | :10:25. | |
the public have got better things to do with their time than that. It is | :10:26. | :10:30. | |
all part of a general mood music which is a problem for Labour, I | :10:31. | :10:35. | |
think, which is the important things that happen in Scotland, like | :10:36. | :10:40. | |
Grangemouth, where we had a weekend of thinking that we were about to | :10:41. | :10:44. | |
lose even the important facility, that Labour was silent and all that. | :10:45. | :10:49. | |
-- lose a very important facility. It is hard for Labour to clean the | :10:50. | :10:54. | |
stand up for Scotland when they are not visible. They let whoever it is | :10:55. | :10:59. | |
from London to take what is going on and people from Scotland are not | :11:00. | :11:02. | |
like that. It is from London to take what is going on and people from | :11:03. | :11:05. | |
Scotland are not like that. It looks as if there is more of this story to | :11:06. | :11:08. | |
come because we have Len McCluskey earlier with Andrew Neil saying that | :11:09. | :11:10. | |
some new revelations in the Sunday Times are to, this is part of an old | :11:11. | :11:19. | |
story. There are still questions remaining four Johann Lamont and | :11:20. | :11:23. | |
live in London. It would seem that people are wanting to know what has | :11:24. | :11:30. | |
gone on. Did you ever get to the bottom of it and then decide they | :11:31. | :11:35. | |
did not want to win a further? Unite involved? Strong-arming people not | :11:36. | :11:40. | |
to come forward? -- did not want it to go any further. The irony is that | :11:41. | :11:44. | |
it has been such a disaster for all parties concerned that makes sense | :11:45. | :11:49. | |
to try and get out exactly what happened. It is not going away. It | :11:50. | :11:54. | |
is unfortunate for Scottish Labour because it is viewed as a reserved | :11:55. | :11:57. | |
matter where they are on the sidelines waiting to see what London | :11:58. | :12:01. | |
is going to do. That does not look good for anybody. Undoubtedly, the | :12:02. | :12:06. | |
story is going to ramble on for another few days. More in that on | :12:07. | :12:10. | |
the week to come. Also, the First Minister is off to China for a trade | :12:11. | :12:17. | |
with that. It is one of several trade visits from not just him but | :12:18. | :12:21. | |
other Scottish ministers. This week, Willie Rennie talked about the issue | :12:22. | :12:26. | |
of human rights. It is always a difficult balancing act with China | :12:27. | :12:29. | |
with trade and human rights. That is true. I think you need to | :12:30. | :12:34. | |
understand, we need to understand a little but about how the Chinese | :12:35. | :12:39. | |
cultural works. The importance they have want be losing face, as they | :12:40. | :12:47. | |
might discredit. -- they have a losing. It would not work for us as | :12:48. | :12:56. | |
the country to make statements about human rights when we are looking at | :12:57. | :12:58. | |
a potential trading partner. That does not mean that you are seeing | :12:59. | :13:03. | |
things behind the scenes, as has been the case with British diplomacy | :13:04. | :13:05. | |
for years and years. In Scotland, I think the point is that we need a | :13:06. | :13:10. | |
senior politicians, First Minister and others, to constantly making | :13:11. | :13:16. | |
those visits and efforts, building up those relationships to become | :13:17. | :13:19. | |
trusted, not only from the purpose of trade and our future prospects | :13:20. | :13:24. | |
but also for we can have those discussions about what a civilised | :13:25. | :13:29. | |
society looks like from the sea. Google 's discussions change | :13:30. | :13:35. | |
anything? I think the evidence is clearly not. -- to those | :13:36. | :13:38. | |
discussions. The Scottish Government wants to go over there and not its | :13:39. | :13:43. | |
prime concern is not about raising the issue of Tibet or the Dalai | :13:44. | :13:48. | |
Lama, it wants to increase exports, which have already doubled in the | :13:49. | :13:52. | |
last five years to almost 500 million. That is the prime concern. | :13:53. | :13:58. | |
Is that the right concern, ultimately? Some people think that | :13:59. | :14:02. | |
actually what happens in China is maybe none of my business. We live | :14:03. | :14:07. | |
in an interconnected society and I think that it's crucial that it is | :14:08. | :14:13. | |
raised in some elements but there is that dilemma but can politicians be | :14:14. | :14:16. | |
honest and say this is not the time and place for us to bring this up. | :14:17. | :14:19. | |
Although the budget by saying they will have conversations in private? | :14:20. | :14:24. | |
How expensive they are, we did not know. But I thank you all for coming | :14:25. | :14:27. | |
in today. That's all from us this week. We'll be back a little later | :14:28. | :14:31. | |
than usual next week, at 12:15pm, due to Remembrance Sunday. Until | :14:32. | :14:32. | |
then, goodbye. | :14:33. | :14:38. |