Browse content similar to 08/12/2013. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Morning, folks. Welcome to the Sunday Politics. First some | :00:36. | :00:40. | |
Sunday-morning cheer, if you're an MP that is. You're set to get an 11% | :00:41. | :00:46. | |
pay rise! But what does this man deserve? The Chancellor's gone from | :00:47. | :00:49. | |
zero to hero for some, who credit him for turning the economy around. | :00:50. | :00:53. | |
We'll be taking a fine tooth comb to his Autumn statement. | :00:54. | :01:07. | |
Should this man get an 11% pay rise? Ed Balls was certainly working very | :01:08. | :01:10. | |
hard to be heard last Thursday. We'll be reviewing his performance. | :01:11. | :01:14. | |
And what about this man? We'll be joined by England's Chief Inspector | :01:15. | :01:17. | |
of Schools. He's been writing his annual report this week. Will the | :01:18. | :01:22. | |
Government achieve an A star? And coming up on Sunday Politics | :01:23. | :01:25. | |
Scotland, join us for our end-of-year review. | :01:26. | :01:30. | |
they achieved a C+. But they are all we could afford and there will be no | :01:31. | :01:54. | |
pay rise for them. They will be glued to an electronic device | :01:55. | :01:57. | |
throughout the programme and if we are lucky they might stop there | :01:58. | :02:03. | |
internet shopping and tweet something intelligent. But don't | :02:04. | :02:07. | |
hold your breath. Janan Ganesh, Helen Lewis and Nick Watt. Last | :02:08. | :02:12. | |
week, storms were battering Britain, the East Coast was hit by the worst | :02:13. | :02:15. | |
tidal surge in more than a century, thousands of people had to be | :02:16. | :02:19. | |
evacuated and Nelson Mandela died. The downed the news agenda was the | :02:20. | :02:24. | |
small matter of George Osborne's Autumn Statement. His giveaways, his | :02:25. | :02:30. | |
takeaways and his first opportunity to announce some economic cheer. | :02:31. | :02:38. | |
It might be winter outside, but in the studios it is awesome. Autumn | :02:39. | :02:49. | |
Statement time. -- autumn. This is a moment of TV history. Normally when | :02:50. | :02:53. | |
the Chancellor delivers these statements, he has to say the | :02:54. | :02:56. | |
economy is actually a lot worse than everyone predicted. This time, he | :02:57. | :03:01. | |
can stand up and say the economy is better than everybody predicted. A | :03:02. | :03:02. | |
lot better. Britain is currently growing faster | :03:03. | :03:11. | |
than any other major advanced economy. Faster than France, which | :03:12. | :03:18. | |
is contracting, faster than Germany, faster even than America. At this | :03:19. | :03:24. | |
Autumn Statement last year, there were repeated predictions that | :03:25. | :03:28. | |
borrowing would go up. Instead, borrowing is down, and down | :03:29. | :03:32. | |
significantly more than forecast. But George Osborne said the good | :03:33. | :03:35. | |
numbers still mean more tough decisions. We will not give up in | :03:36. | :03:41. | |
giving in our country's debts. We will not spend the money from lower | :03:42. | :03:45. | |
borrowing. We will not squander the harder and games of the British | :03:46. | :03:53. | |
people. -- hard earned gains. In other news, further cuts to | :03:54. | :03:56. | |
government departments. The state pension age will increase in the | :03:57. | :04:02. | |
2040s, affecting people in their 40s now. There were some goodies, like | :04:03. | :04:08. | |
discounted business rates for small businesses, free school meals for | :04:09. | :04:11. | |
infants, favoured by the Lib Dems, and those marriage tax breaks below | :04:12. | :04:16. | |
that by the Tories. But, as with all big fiscal events, it takes a while | :04:17. | :04:18. | |
for the details to sink in. The marriage tax allowance is a | :04:19. | :04:26. | |
long-standing commitment that he could not abandon. It does help | :04:27. | :04:29. | |
those families were only one goes out to work. It does not go to | :04:30. | :04:35. | |
higher rate taxpayers, I don't think. Perhaps it does, I can't | :04:36. | :04:40. | |
remember. It makes me feel guilty, I am taking them very seriously, | :04:41. | :04:45. | |
but... Shall I give you them? There is the Autumn Statement. Have that, | :04:46. | :04:48. | |
a free gift from the Sunday Politics. Is there no limit to the | :04:49. | :04:52. | |
generosity of the BBC? In the meantime, Twitter was awash | :04:53. | :05:02. | |
with unflattering pictures of a red-faced Ed Balls giving his | :05:03. | :05:06. | |
response. Some pictures were more than flattering than others. Is Ed | :05:07. | :05:12. | |
Balls OK? Should we be worrying about him? He looks very stressed. | :05:13. | :05:16. | |
There is nothing to worry about in terms of Ed balls and his analysis. | :05:17. | :05:20. | |
He and Ed Miliband have been setting the pace in terms of the focus on | :05:21. | :05:28. | |
the living standards crisis. It was very telling that there was not a | :05:29. | :05:31. | |
mention of living standards last time, we got 12 mentions this time. | :05:32. | :05:36. | |
Never mind what he was saying, by now everybody has a copy of the | :05:37. | :05:43. | |
all-important paperwork. Time to hand over to number cruncher | :05:44. | :05:45. | |
extraordinaire Paul Johnson from the Institute for Fiscal Studies. Of | :05:46. | :05:50. | |
course it means that things are significantly better this year and | :05:51. | :05:53. | |
next than we thought they would be just nine months ago. That has got | :05:54. | :05:57. | |
to be good news. But it is also worth looking at the growth figures | :05:58. | :06:01. | |
a few years out. They have been revised down a little bit. The | :06:02. | :06:09. | |
reason is, the view of the office of budget response ability is that the | :06:10. | :06:12. | |
long run has not really changed very much. We are getting a bit more | :06:13. | :06:16. | |
growth now, but their view is that it is at the cost of a little bit of | :06:17. | :06:19. | |
the growth we will expect in the years after the next general | :06:20. | :06:24. | |
election. As the day draws to a close, the one place there has | :06:25. | :06:28. | |
definitely been no growth is the graphics budget of my colleague, | :06:29. | :06:36. | |
Robert Preston. It's as good as it gets these days, I don't think the | :06:37. | :06:40. | |
viewers will mind. It's very Sunday Politics, if I might say. That is | :06:41. | :06:48. | |
very worrying. Was this a watershed for George | :06:49. | :06:53. | |
Osborne? Was it a watershed for Ed Balls? We can all make the case that | :06:54. | :06:57. | |
it is the wrong sort of recovery, a consumer led recovery. People are | :06:58. | :07:01. | |
spending money they don't have. At the end of the day, it for George | :07:02. | :07:05. | |
Osborne, it is growth, the first time he has been able to talk about | :07:06. | :07:10. | |
growth. It allows him to control the baseline, the fiscal debate for the | :07:11. | :07:14. | |
next generation. For Ed Balls, nearly not a good performance. But | :07:15. | :07:18. | |
don't write this man off. Judging by Twitter, Iain Dale, no friend of it | :07:19. | :07:22. | |
all is, said he did a good interview this morning on a rival TV channel. | :07:23. | :07:31. | |
I feel the fact that the Tories hate Ed Balls so passionately is probably | :07:32. | :07:34. | |
a good reason that they should hang onto him, in that Labour sends his | :07:35. | :07:41. | |
effectiveness. May be the Tories hope that they hold on to him as | :07:42. | :07:47. | |
well? A lot of people shouting at someone and mocking their speech | :07:48. | :07:50. | |
impediment, that is politics that doesn't make me want to engage. The | :07:51. | :07:53. | |
takeaway will be lots of people thinking that none of these people | :07:54. | :07:59. | |
are people they like. Who is the main heckler on the Labour front | :08:00. | :08:02. | |
bench West remarked I suppose he can't cast any stones. It would be | :08:03. | :08:07. | |
easier to sympathise with him, if it were not that David Cameron went | :08:08. | :08:10. | |
through a similar situation and John Bercow did not step in to stop the | :08:11. | :08:16. | |
wall of noise. It was guaranteed a good happen to a Labour politician. | :08:17. | :08:24. | |
It's painful to remove him because he had a Parliamentary following and | :08:25. | :08:31. | |
he will kick up a fuss. I think he's much more pragmatic on issues like | :08:32. | :08:36. | |
business than Ed Miliband. I'm told he wasn't keen on the energy price | :08:37. | :08:42. | |
freeze. The problem with Ed Balls, to have the first words that you | :08:43. | :08:46. | |
say, the Chancellor is in denial, after he is presiding over growth, | :08:47. | :08:51. | |
it means nobody is listening to you. Who would replace him? Certainly not | :08:52. | :08:55. | |
Alistair Darling, the side of the referendum and even afterwards. Ed | :08:56. | :08:59. | |
Balls did get a roasting in the press and on Twitter. He seemed to | :09:00. | :09:02. | |
disappear from public view following the Autumn Statement. But a little | :09:03. | :09:06. | |
bird tells me he managed one interview this morning before he | :09:07. | :09:09. | |
went off to an all-important piano recital this afternoon. Watch out, | :09:10. | :09:14. | |
Jools Holland, he could be after your job. How bad was his | :09:15. | :09:17. | |
performance on Thursday? Here is the Shadow Chancellor in action. The | :09:18. | :09:24. | |
Chancellor is incomplete denial about the central facts that are | :09:25. | :09:29. | |
defining this government in office. He used to say he would balance the | :09:30. | :09:40. | |
books in 2015. Now he wants us to congratulate him for saying he will | :09:41. | :09:45. | |
do it in 2019, Mr Speaker. With this government, it is clearly not just | :09:46. | :09:52. | |
the badgers that move the goalposts. No mention of the universal credit | :09:53. | :09:59. | |
in the statement. IDS, in deep shambles, Mr Speaker. Chris Leslie | :10:00. | :10:09. | |
is the Shadow Chief Secretary to the Treasury. He is Ed Balls's deputy, | :10:10. | :10:15. | |
in other words. Why do more and more of your Labour colleagues think that | :10:16. | :10:21. | |
your boss is below the water line? I'm not sure I accept the premise of | :10:22. | :10:24. | |
your suggestion. I don't think my colleagues believe that George | :10:25. | :10:30. | |
Osborne has a superior argument. I think Ed Balls will certainly trying | :10:31. | :10:33. | |
his best, loud and clear, to make the case there is a cost of living | :10:34. | :10:37. | |
crisis in this country and the Chancellor doesn't understand this. | :10:38. | :10:40. | |
That was essentially the heat of the debate on the Autumn Statement day. | :10:41. | :10:46. | |
One leading Labour MPs said to me that Ed Balls is always looking | :10:47. | :10:48. | |
back, fixated with the rear-view mirror, that was the exact quote. A | :10:49. | :10:54. | |
Labour MP told Sky News, Labour has a strong argument to make, | :10:55. | :10:58. | |
unfortunately it was not made well in the chamber today. Quoting the | :10:59. | :11:07. | |
Daily Mail, this is two poor performances. A quote that I can't | :11:08. | :11:12. | |
use because it uses too many four letter words. Baroness Armstrong, | :11:13. | :11:17. | |
speaking at Progress, a former Labour Cabinet minister, we are not | :11:18. | :11:22. | |
sufficiently concerned about public spending, how we would pay for what | :11:23. | :11:25. | |
we are talking about. Quite a battering? There were two sets of | :11:26. | :11:29. | |
quotes you were giving. The couple were about the strategy for tackling | :11:30. | :11:35. | |
public expenditure. I think it's fair that we talk about that. The | :11:36. | :11:41. | |
rest were pretty unattributed, nameless sources. You have never | :11:42. | :11:52. | |
given and of the record briefing? We have conversations off camera, but I | :11:53. | :11:56. | |
don't think you have a wealth of evidence to say that somehow Ed | :11:57. | :12:01. | |
Balls's arguments were wrong. He was making the point that, ultimately, | :12:02. | :12:05. | |
it is a government that does not have its finger on the pulse about | :12:06. | :12:10. | |
what most of your viewers are concerned about, that wages are | :12:11. | :12:13. | |
being squeezed and prices are getting higher and higher. You have | :12:14. | :12:17. | |
had time to study the Autumn Statement. What part of it does | :12:18. | :12:24. | |
Labour disagree with? It is a very big question. I think the overall | :12:25. | :12:30. | |
strategy the Autumn Statement is setting out does not deal with the | :12:31. | :12:33. | |
fundamental problems in the economy. What measures do you disagree with? | :12:34. | :12:38. | |
A lot of it is the absence of measures we would have put in if we | :12:39. | :12:41. | |
were doing the Autumn Statement. If you are going to deal with the cost | :12:42. | :12:45. | |
of living crisis, you have got to get productivity levels up in our | :12:46. | :12:48. | |
society. One of the best ways of doing that is on infrastructure. We | :12:49. | :12:53. | |
believe in bringing forward 's investment and housing, getting some | :12:54. | :12:57. | |
of the fundamentals right in our economy. By planting, the business | :12:58. | :13:05. | |
lending we have to do. We have seen a lamentable failing. There are big | :13:06. | :13:14. | |
structural reforms that we need. Ultimately, the public are concerned | :13:15. | :13:17. | |
about the cost of living crisis. That has got to be childcare help, a | :13:18. | :13:22. | |
10p starting rate of tax. Above all, and energy price freeze, which | :13:23. | :13:26. | |
still this government are refusing to do. On Friday, you told me you | :13:27. | :13:31. | |
supported the principle of a welfare cap. But you change bling claim the | :13:32. | :13:37. | |
Chancellor's cap included pensions. You have now seen the figures, and | :13:38. | :13:41. | |
it does not include pensions, correct? We do want a welfare cap. | :13:42. | :13:46. | |
The government have said they are going to put more detail on this in | :13:47. | :13:52. | |
the March budget. But it does not include pensions? We think they have | :13:53. | :13:56. | |
a short term approach to the welfare cap. They put in some pension | :13:57. | :14:02. | |
benefits. The state pension is not in the short-term plan because, as | :14:03. | :14:05. | |
we believe, a triple lock is a good idea. In the longer term, if you are | :14:06. | :14:11. | |
talking about structural welfare issues, you do have to think about | :14:12. | :14:14. | |
pensions because they have to be sustainable if we are living | :14:15. | :14:16. | |
longer. I think that is about the careful management. Let me show you | :14:17. | :14:22. | |
what Ed Balls said on this programme at the start of the summer. As for | :14:23. | :14:28. | |
pensioners, I think this is a real question. George Osborne is going to | :14:29. | :14:31. | |
announce his cap in two weeks time. I don't know if he will exclude | :14:32. | :14:35. | |
pension spending or including. Our plan is to include it. Pension | :14:36. | :14:39. | |
spending would be included in the welfare cap? That is our plan, | :14:40. | :14:45. | |
exactly what I just said. Over the long-term, if you have a serious | :14:46. | :14:48. | |
welfare cap structural welfare issues, over 20, 30, 40 year | :14:49. | :14:54. | |
period, you can't say that we will not work and pensions as part of | :14:55. | :14:59. | |
that. Pensions would be part of the Labour cap? In the longer term. What | :15:00. | :15:06. | |
is the longer term? If you win 2015? We want to stick with the triple | :15:07. | :15:12. | |
lock on the pension, that is the Government approach to their | :15:13. | :15:16. | |
short-term welfare cap. In the longer term, for example, on the | :15:17. | :15:20. | |
winter fuel allowance, we should not necessarily be... There are lots of | :15:21. | :15:26. | |
benefits... I understand that, I am talking about the basic state | :15:27. | :15:29. | |
pension, is that part of your welfare cap or not? In a 20, 30, 40 | :15:30. | :15:36. | |
year frame... Even you will not be around in government, then. You are | :15:37. | :15:46. | |
writing me off already. You have to focus on welfare changes, pensions | :15:47. | :15:49. | |
have to be affordable as part of that. It's dangerous to say, well, | :15:50. | :15:53. | |
if you are going to have a serious welfare cap, we should not look at | :15:54. | :15:56. | |
pensions cost. It would be irresponsible. Will pensions be part | :15:57. | :16:04. | |
of the cap from 2015 until 2020 if Labour is in power? In our long-term | :16:05. | :16:08. | |
cap we have to make sure... I'm talking about 2015-16. We haven't | :16:09. | :16:16. | |
seen the proposition the Government has put before us. | :16:17. | :16:22. | |
You claim people of ?1600 worse off under the coalition. That is true | :16:23. | :16:33. | |
when you compare to pay and prices. Can you confirm that calculation | :16:34. | :16:37. | |
does not include the ?700 tax cut from raising the income tax | :16:38. | :16:42. | |
threshold, huge savings on mortgages because of low interest or the | :16:43. | :16:47. | |
freezing of council tax? It doesn't include the tax and benefit | :16:48. | :16:51. | |
changes. If you do want to look at those, last year, the ISS said they | :16:52. | :16:57. | |
could be making people worse off. It might not include those factors. The | :16:58. | :17:05. | |
VAT increase, tax credit cuts, child benefit cuts, they all add up. My | :17:06. | :17:11. | |
understanding is that the ISS figures have said people are ?891 | :17:12. | :17:17. | |
worse off if you look at the tax and benefit changes since 2010. You have | :17:18. | :17:24. | |
to look at wages and prices. The ISS confirmed our approach was broadly | :17:25. | :17:28. | |
the right way of assessing what is happening. The Chancellor was | :17:29. | :17:34. | |
saying, real household disposable incomes are rising. He is completely | :17:35. | :17:40. | |
out of touch. Can you sum up the macro economic policy for Labour? | :17:41. | :17:44. | |
Invest in the future, make sure we have the right approach for the | :17:45. | :17:49. | |
long-term politicking. Tackle the cost of living crisis people are | :17:50. | :17:52. | |
facing. Now, let's talk to the Financial | :17:53. | :17:55. | |
Secretary to the Treasury, Sajid Javid. | :17:56. | :18:03. | |
Discovery, underpinned by rising house prices, increasing personal | :18:04. | :18:10. | |
debt, do you accept that is unsustainable? | :18:11. | :18:14. | |
I accept the OBE are also said the reason why this country is facing | :18:15. | :18:20. | |
more these challenges -- OBR. That is because we went through a | :18:21. | :18:27. | |
Labour recession, the worst we have seen in 100 years. But do you accept | :18:28. | :18:35. | |
that a recovery underpinned by these things I have just read out isn't | :18:36. | :18:40. | |
sustainable? We set out a long-term plan for recovery, and again this | :18:41. | :18:46. | |
week. We have shown with the tough decisions we have made already, the | :18:47. | :18:50. | |
country can enjoy a recovery. There are still a lot of difficult | :18:51. | :18:55. | |
decisions. The biggest risk are Labour's plans. The March | :18:56. | :19:06. | |
projections work at for those -- for both business investment and | :19:07. | :19:10. | |
exports. Suddenly it is expected to rise 5% next year, a 10% turnaround | :19:11. | :19:17. | |
in investment. How is it credible? I have been in business before | :19:18. | :19:21. | |
politics. Any business person listening will know, when you have | :19:22. | :19:25. | |
gone through a recession, the deepest in 100 years, it will hit | :19:26. | :19:31. | |
investment, profits, you can't make plans again until you have | :19:32. | :19:35. | |
confidence in the economy. That is what this country is seeing now | :19:36. | :19:43. | |
under this government. This is an assumption made independently. The | :19:44. | :19:50. | |
fall in business investment is because of the recession. The | :19:51. | :19:56. | |
forecast increases, 5% next year, and so on, it is based on the | :19:57. | :20:03. | |
independent forecast. Based on fact. If you look at the investment plans | :20:04. | :20:08. | |
of companies, this week, the Chancellor went to JCB, Jaguar Land | :20:09. | :20:16. | |
Rover has plans to create more jobs, these investment plans are | :20:17. | :20:19. | |
coming through now because of the confidence generated by this | :20:20. | :20:24. | |
government, such as the cut in corporation tax which Labour would | :20:25. | :20:29. | |
increase. Are the export forecasts more credible? The 15 years, our | :20:30. | :20:34. | |
share of world trade decline. Suddenly starting next year, it | :20:35. | :20:42. | |
stops falling. That's not credible. I worked in finance the 20 years. I | :20:43. | :20:47. | |
have yet to find any forecast which is fully right. Under Labour, we | :20:48. | :20:55. | |
would have forecasts made by Gordon Brown who would announce he would | :20:56. | :21:01. | |
hit all his targets. Now we have an independent system. | :21:02. | :21:06. | |
Do you accept, if exports or business investment do not pick up, | :21:07. | :21:12. | |
then a purely consumer led recovery is not sustainable? We need more | :21:13. | :21:16. | |
than a consumer led recovery. We need consumer investment to go up. | :21:17. | :21:24. | |
On Xbox, it is noticeable that experts are primarily down because | :21:25. | :21:27. | |
the markets we trade with, the eurozone markets, are depressed. | :21:28. | :21:32. | |
Many have just come out of recession. Or they are still in | :21:33. | :21:38. | |
recession. If you look at exports to non-EU countries, they are up 30%. | :21:39. | :21:48. | |
120% to China. 100% to Russia. Will you keep the triple lock for | :21:49. | :21:54. | |
the state pension beyond 2015? Yes, long term. That's why it is not part | :21:55. | :22:00. | |
of our welfare cap. Chris Leslie cannot answer that question. It is | :22:01. | :22:04. | |
straightforward. House prices are now rising ten | :22:05. | :22:12. | |
times faster than average earnings. That's not good. House prices are | :22:13. | :22:20. | |
rising, partly reflecting recovery. Ten times faster than average | :22:21. | :22:24. | |
earnings, how can people afford to buy homes if it carries on? What you | :22:25. | :22:30. | |
would hope, this is the evidence, if you look at the plans of the month | :22:31. | :22:33. | |
companies, they are planning new homes which will mean that, as this | :22:34. | :22:41. | |
demand spurs that investment, more homes will come about. We need to | :22:42. | :22:45. | |
give people the means to buy those homes. We have introduced the help | :22:46. | :23:34. | |
to buy scheme. I accept the OBR says it will start rising again but as | :23:35. | :23:39. | |
household debt rises again Petr Cech reduces, -- as household debt | :23:40. | :23:53. | |
reduces, we need to make sure there are checks in place. Wages have not | :23:54. | :23:57. | |
been rising in real terms for quite some time. Over the next five years, | :23:58. | :24:06. | |
even as the economy grows, by about 15% according the OBR to the OBR -- | :24:07. | :24:18. | |
but people will not benefit. These hard-working families will not share | :24:19. | :24:24. | |
in the recovery. What is the best way to help those families? The | :24:25. | :24:30. | |
government doesn't set wages. What we can do is influence the overall | :24:31. | :24:34. | |
economy. We don't have a magic lever. Wages have been stagnating | :24:35. | :24:44. | |
for five years. When will people get a proper salary? The best way for | :24:45. | :24:50. | |
wage growth is a growing economy, more jobs. We have more people | :24:51. | :24:54. | |
employed in Britain today than at any time in our history. The biggest | :24:55. | :25:01. | |
risk to recovery is if we let Labour into the Treasury with more spending | :25:02. | :25:06. | |
and more debt. Which got us into this trouble. By whatever measure | :25:07. | :25:11. | |
you care to choose, would people be better off come the 20 15th election | :25:12. | :25:17. | |
than they were in 2010? Yes, they will be. Look at jobs. Already more | :25:18. | :25:24. | |
people employed than at any other time in history. Will they be better | :25:25. | :25:28. | |
off? The best way for anyone to raise their living standards is | :25:29. | :25:33. | |
access to a growing job market. But will they be better off? I believe | :25:34. | :25:41. | |
people will be. Compared to 2010. Yes. In terms of take-home pay. This | :25:42. | :25:46. | |
is a credible measure. Now, what do you think the Education | :25:47. | :25:52. | |
Secretary, Michael Gove, was like at school? Hard-working? Hand always | :25:53. | :25:56. | |
up? Top of the class? Well, if he wasn't passionate about education | :25:57. | :25:59. | |
then, he is now. In fact, since he took office, it seems he hasn't | :26:00. | :26:06. | |
stopped working very hard indeed. When the coalition came to power, | :26:07. | :26:09. | |
Michael Gove evoked Mao, saying they were on a long march to reform | :26:10. | :26:12. | |
education. Just like Mao, they faced a baby boom, so pledged ?5 billion | :26:13. | :26:19. | |
for new school places. They extended Labour's academy programme. There's | :26:20. | :26:23. | |
now about 3,000 in England. But then, they marched even further, | :26:24. | :26:26. | |
creating free schools run by parents, funded by taxpayers. 174 | :26:27. | :26:33. | |
have opened so far. The schools admission code was changed, to give | :26:34. | :26:36. | |
parents more choice. And a pupil premium was introduced, | :26:37. | :26:39. | |
currently, an extra ?900 funding for each disadvantaged child. | :26:40. | :26:42. | |
An overhaul of the national curriculum provoked criticism. | :26:43. | :26:46. | |
Chairman Gove mocked detractors as "bad academia". But exam reforms | :26:47. | :26:54. | |
didn't quite go to plan. Although GCSEs got harder, plans to replace | :26:55. | :26:58. | |
A-levels had to be abandoned. Ultimately, the true test of these | :26:59. | :27:01. | |
reforms will be what happens in the classroom. The person in charge of | :27:02. | :27:06. | |
making sure those classrooms are up to scratch in England is the Chief | :27:07. | :27:09. | |
Inspector Of Schools, head of Ofsted, Michael Wilshaw, who joins | :27:10. | :27:14. | |
me now. Over the past 15 years, we have | :27:15. | :27:20. | |
doubled spending on schools even allowing for inflation. By | :27:21. | :27:23. | |
international standards, we are stagnating, why? I said last year | :27:24. | :27:29. | |
that mediocrity had settled into the system. Too many children were | :27:30. | :27:39. | |
coasting in schools, which is why we changed the grading structure, we | :27:40. | :27:45. | |
removed that awful word, satisfactory. Saying that good is | :27:46. | :27:49. | |
now the only acceptable standard and schools had a limited time in which | :27:50. | :27:53. | |
to get to that. We are seeing gradually, it is difficult to say | :27:54. | :27:59. | |
this in the week we have had the OECD report. Things have gradually | :28:00. | :28:04. | |
improved. I will come onto that in a minute. Explain this. International | :28:05. | :28:09. | |
comparisons show us flat-lining or even falling in some subjects, | :28:10. | :28:15. | |
including science. For 20 years, our domestic exam results just got | :28:16. | :28:19. | |
better and better. Was this a piece of fiction fed to us by the | :28:20. | :28:24. | |
educational establishment, was there a cover-up? There is no question | :28:25. | :28:30. | |
there has grade inflation. I speak as an ex-headteacher who saw that in | :28:31. | :28:36. | |
examinations. Perceptual state is actually doing something about that. | :28:37. | :28:40. | |
Most good heads will say that is about time. We have to be credible. | :28:41. | :28:50. | |
Do politicians and educationalists conspire in this grade inflation? It | :28:51. | :28:53. | |
might suit politicians to say things are going up every year. As a head, | :28:54. | :28:59. | |
I knew a lot of the exams youngsters were sitting were not up to scratch. | :29:00. | :29:07. | |
The latest OECD study places us 36th for maths, 23rd reading, slipping | :29:08. | :29:13. | |
down to 21st in science. Yet, Ofsted, your organisation, | :29:14. | :29:18. | |
designates 80% of schools as good or outstanding. That's another fiction. | :29:19. | :29:23. | |
This year, we have. If we see this level of progress, it has been a | :29:24. | :29:27. | |
remarkable progress over the last years since we changed our grading | :29:28. | :29:33. | |
structure, then... In a year, absolutely. We have better teachers | :29:34. | :29:38. | |
coming into our school system. Better leaders. Better schools. The | :29:39. | :29:42. | |
big challenge for our country is making sure that progress is | :29:43. | :29:45. | |
maintained which will eventually translate into better outcomes. | :29:46. | :29:52. | |
These figures are pretty much up-to-date. Are you saying within a | :29:53. | :29:58. | |
year 80% of the schools are good enough? All of the schools we | :29:59. | :30:04. | |
upgraded have had better grades in GCSE and grade 2. We have to make | :30:05. | :30:08. | |
sure that is maintained. The Government has based its reforms on | :30:09. | :30:12. | |
similar reforms in Sweden. In opposition they were endlessly going | :30:13. | :30:16. | |
to Stockholm to find out how it was done. Swedish schools are doing even | :30:17. | :30:21. | |
worse than ours in the tables. Why are we copying failure? The | :30:22. | :30:27. | |
secretary of state believes, and I actually believe, as somebody who | :30:28. | :30:31. | |
has come from an academy model, that if you hand power and resources, you | :30:32. | :30:36. | |
hand autonomy to the people on the ground, to the people in the | :30:37. | :30:39. | |
classroom, in the corridors, in the playgrounds, things work. If you | :30:40. | :30:46. | |
allow the great monoliths that used to have responsibility for education | :30:47. | :30:50. | |
in the past to take control again, you will see a reverse in standards. | :30:51. | :30:54. | |
You have got to actually empower those people that make the | :30:55. | :30:57. | |
difference. That is why autonomy and freedom is important. We spent a lot | :30:58. | :31:03. | |
of money moving what were local authority schools to become | :31:04. | :31:06. | |
academies and new free school czar being set up as well. When the | :31:07. | :31:09. | |
academies are pretty much the same level of autonomy, the free school | :31:10. | :31:14. | |
is maybe a little bit more, the evidence we have had so far is that | :31:15. | :31:18. | |
they don't really perform any better than local authority schools? | :31:19. | :31:22. | |
Indeed, Encore GCSE subjects, they might even be doing worse? These are | :31:23. | :31:27. | |
early days. We will say more about this on weapons they when we produce | :31:28. | :31:31. | |
the annual report. The sponsored academies that took over the worst | :31:32. | :31:35. | |
schools in the country, in the most difficult circumstances, in the most | :31:36. | :31:38. | |
disadvantaged communities, are doing much better now. What about GCSE? | :31:39. | :31:45. | |
They are doing GCSE equivalents, the lass academic subjects question my | :31:46. | :31:52. | |
cull OK, but they are doing better than previous schools. If you look | :31:53. | :31:56. | |
at the top performing nations in the world, they focus on the quality of | :31:57. | :32:09. | |
teaching. The best graduates coming to education. They professionally | :32:10. | :32:12. | |
develop them. They make sure they spot the brightest talents and get | :32:13. | :32:16. | |
them into positions as soon as possible. We have got to do the same | :32:17. | :32:19. | |
if we are going to catch up with those jurisdictions. This isn't just | :32:20. | :32:26. | |
a British problem. It seems to be a European problem. The East Asian | :32:27. | :32:30. | |
countries now dominate the top of the tables. What's the most | :32:31. | :32:32. | |
important lesson we should learn from East Asia? Attitudes to work. | :32:33. | :32:37. | |
We need to make sure that we invest in good teachers, good leaders. We | :32:38. | :32:44. | |
have to make sure that students have the right attitudes to work. It's no | :32:45. | :32:48. | |
good getting good people into the classroom and then seeing them part | :32:49. | :32:53. | |
of teaching by bad behaviour, disaffected youngsters and poor | :32:54. | :32:59. | |
leadership. We see young teachers doing well for a time and then being | :33:00. | :33:03. | |
put off teaching and leaving from that sort of culture in our schools. | :33:04. | :33:08. | |
Are you a cheerleader for government education policy rather than | :33:09. | :33:13. | |
independent inspectors? I am independent, Ofsted is independent. | :33:14. | :33:14. | |
I believe we are Are you enjoying it? It is a tough | :33:15. | :36:45. | |
job. Sometimes I enjoyed it. Your job is more difficult than mine. | :36:46. | :36:49. | |
You're watching the Sunday at Cap politics. -- Sunday Politics. | :36:50. | :36:56. | |
Good morning and welcome to the last Sunday Politics Scotland of 2013. | :36:57. | :36:59. | |
Coming up on the programme: Humility, humanity, humour. Scotland | :37:00. | :37:11. | |
remembers Nelson Mandela. Nelson Mandela left perpetual scores in our | :37:12. | :37:15. | |
Hearts. We will remember him as a man who single-handedly changed the | :37:16. | :37:19. | |
political climate of the whole world. May his soul rest in peace. | :37:20. | :37:24. | |
And it's that time of year. On our last programme of 2013, we reflect | :37:25. | :37:28. | |
on the top stories of 2013. It's been a busy one. | :37:29. | :37:34. | |
This weekend Scotland joined the world in saying goodbye to a man who | :37:35. | :37:37. | |
was the figurehead of a movement for freedom and the father of a nation. | :37:38. | :37:42. | |
Anti-apartheid campaigners here recalled their fear that Nelson | :37:43. | :37:45. | |
Mandela might not live up to the legend they'd created for him during | :37:46. | :37:49. | |
his time in jail. As it turned out, their concerns were unfounded. After | :37:50. | :37:52. | |
his release, and in the years that followed, Nelson Mandela surpassed | :37:53. | :37:55. | |
their expectations. Andrew Kerr has been looking at Scotland's tribute. | :37:56. | :38:01. | |
He was once a strong man, a powerful man, a man who many once feared. | :38:02. | :38:06. | |
Nelson Mandela overcame that impression, bringing black and white | :38:07. | :38:11. | |
together. Glasgow promoted Nelson Mandela's cause, his memento still | :38:12. | :38:16. | |
stands in the city Chambers, everyone from Prime Ministers to | :38:17. | :38:20. | |
Princes have paid tribute. Tell us your reaction to hearing the news | :38:21. | :38:23. | |
about Nelson Mandela. I think, along with so many other countless members | :38:24. | :38:31. | |
of people, I was deeply saddened to hear of his death because he was a | :38:32. | :38:35. | |
truly remarkable man. Ira member meeting him on various occasions -- | :38:36. | :38:41. | |
I remember meeting him. He was very special with a wonderful sense of | :38:42. | :38:46. | |
humour. That extraordinary ability for forgiveness and reconciliation. | :38:47. | :38:52. | |
A short distance away, a gathering in the place which defined the | :38:53. | :38:56. | |
apartheid era, South African authorities. Ira member how proud it | :38:57. | :39:02. | |
felt when the city named a street after that. The idea that the | :39:03. | :39:06. | |
embassy would have to encounter his name every time they opened a piece | :39:07. | :39:10. | |
of mail. The man has been an inspiration my whole life and | :39:11. | :39:14. | |
continue to be so. On a cold Glasgow night, people you're willing to pay | :39:15. | :39:18. | |
a worm tribute to a man from thousands of miles away who touched | :39:19. | :39:24. | |
many hat hair. Patricia Monahan says she was a nurse in Johannesburg when | :39:25. | :39:27. | |
she met the man himself in her hospital ward. I said, Mr Mandela, | :39:28. | :39:33. | |
would you come visit this little girl, she is dying to meet you. He | :39:34. | :39:37. | |
said of course. He came and talked to her and she was so delighted. He | :39:38. | :39:42. | |
had all the time in the world for her and then he left. It was such a | :39:43. | :39:50. | |
nice visit, it was so special to meet him. I will never forget his | :39:51. | :39:55. | |
smile. Amazing person. I was involved in the campaign to free | :39:56. | :39:57. | |
Nelson smile. Amazing person. I was | :39:58. | :39:58. | |
involved in the campaign to free Mandela and organised the first leg | :39:59. | :40:03. | |
of the march from Glasgow to London when I was a minister in Coatbridge. | :40:04. | :40:10. | |
So I have had that association for a very long time. And from the rainbow | :40:11. | :40:14. | |
nation, South Africans living in Scotland marks the moment. We had a | :40:15. | :40:19. | |
completely different view of him before 1990. But he was a great man. | :40:20. | :40:29. | |
I got to meet him in 1995 and he was a phenomenal man, the founding | :40:30. | :40:31. | |
father of our current nation. Beautiful country and he was a | :40:32. | :40:37. | |
wonderful person. Doctor Nelson Mandela left the perpetual scars in | :40:38. | :40:44. | |
our Hearts. We will remember him as a man who single-handedly changed | :40:45. | :40:48. | |
people to call climate of the whole world. May his soul rest in peace. | :40:49. | :40:55. | |
Back home, the people switched between celebrations and sadness. | :40:56. | :40:59. | |
They are now preparing for the funeral ceremony one week today. | :41:00. | :41:05. | |
Joining me this morning from Selkirk is the Liberal Democrat peer Lord | :41:06. | :41:09. | |
Steel, who was the President of the British Anti Apartheid movement in | :41:10. | :41:12. | |
the '60s. And in the studio, the Labour MP Jim Murphy, who lived in | :41:13. | :41:16. | |
South Africa under apartheid, and Brian Filling, who was chair of the | :41:17. | :41:19. | |
Scottish Anti-Apartheid Movement for nearly 20 years and is now the | :41:20. | :41:22. | |
Honorary Consul for Scotland for the Republic of South Africa. Thank you | :41:23. | :41:25. | |
for joining us. Brian Filling, a long and eventful life. How would | :41:26. | :41:29. | |
you sum up Nelson Mandela? And people said, he was a wonderful | :41:30. | :41:33. | |
person. Sense of humour. Great political cleverness. To get through | :41:34. | :41:40. | |
what he did and of course he suffered a lot, he made many | :41:41. | :41:44. | |
sacrifices but he retained his humour and his humanity, and has | :41:45. | :41:48. | |
been referred to in terms of his reconciliation and forgiveness. Of | :41:49. | :41:53. | |
course, behind the famous smile there was a man of steel. Given what | :41:54. | :41:59. | |
he had come through, he had to be. I remember when he came to Glasgow, | :42:00. | :42:04. | |
and we had a press conference, with the editors alone, and instead of | :42:05. | :42:10. | |
him making a speech, he said I know what is uppermost in your mind so I | :42:11. | :42:13. | |
will add to your questions before you have asked them. He said, you | :42:14. | :42:18. | |
will want to know about my wife and my political relationships. So he | :42:19. | :42:24. | |
answered those questions and said, can I get onto what I want to tell | :42:25. | :42:31. | |
you? He then of course talked about the force in South Africa that | :42:32. | :42:35. | |
killed 10,000 people between 1980 and 1984, so one a few people say it | :42:36. | :42:38. | |
was a bloodless change, that is not quite true. It was the regime trying | :42:39. | :42:46. | |
to derail the election process. He then became president after his | :42:47. | :42:50. | |
visit to Glasgow. We will talk about his success as president, but Jim | :42:51. | :42:54. | |
Murphy, growing up in South Africa at that time, while he was | :42:55. | :42:57. | |
incarcerated, the prominent was he? He was one of several figureheads at | :42:58. | :43:05. | |
the time. We went to South Africa when I was young and I lived there | :43:06. | :43:10. | |
as a teenager. Nelson Mandela was a band person. You could not talk | :43:11. | :43:14. | |
about him, you could not have a photograph of him, you would never | :43:15. | :43:18. | |
read about him in the newspapers. -- banned person. The reason that was | :43:19. | :43:21. | |
given as to why that country could not have democracy, it was Nelson | :43:22. | :43:28. | |
Mandela. You could not have a democracy because Nelson Mandela | :43:29. | :43:31. | |
could become president. But that became the reason why South Africa | :43:32. | :43:36. | |
got a democracy. It was not painless or bloodless. South Africa has been | :43:37. | :43:41. | |
free of recrimination. I can see Robben Island, where he spent so | :43:42. | :43:44. | |
much time in prison, every morning going to school as a teenager so it | :43:45. | :43:48. | |
was a constant in your mind. It was not a constant in conversation | :43:49. | :43:52. | |
because the way the state apparatus was constructed. Was an idea of the | :43:53. | :43:57. | |
scale of the demonstrations, the protests, in Scotland and the UK | :43:58. | :44:03. | |
during the 1960s and 70s. Why was it so important to people so far away? | :44:04. | :44:11. | |
In London, there was a vigil outside South Africa house, it lasted for | :44:12. | :44:16. | |
years. And in fact, the night when we heard that Nelson had died, a few | :44:17. | :44:20. | |
of us went around it to South Africa house and people were starting to | :44:21. | :44:25. | |
gather on the pavement where we had had those bejewelled and I met one | :44:26. | :44:28. | |
or two beagle who had been on those the ago. So it was a constant | :44:29. | :44:35. | |
struggle. -- one or two people who had been up on those vigils. They | :44:36. | :44:42. | |
were supporting the South African exiles in London at that time. All | :44:43. | :44:54. | |
of these people were in refuge in London and were part of the backbone | :44:55. | :44:58. | |
of the movement. How good his time in prison change him? -- how did his | :44:59. | :45:08. | |
time in prison change him? A lot of them came out of prison changed | :45:09. | :45:15. | |
people. It made them what they are. The man who Nelson regarded as his | :45:16. | :45:20. | |
mentor, all of them were remarkable human beings and I think it was | :45:21. | :45:24. | |
because of, partly because of the struggle but the prison experience, | :45:25. | :45:29. | |
already had to campaign to get newspapers, it took years to get | :45:30. | :45:33. | |
that, to be allowed to read and so on. So they were very, very | :45:34. | :45:36. | |
different people, all of them, not just Nelson. Was there a fear that, | :45:37. | :45:43. | |
on release from prison, Nelson Mandela main outlet up to the | :45:44. | :45:45. | |
expectations that had been built up around him? -- may not live up to | :45:46. | :45:53. | |
the expectations. No. What people think today of is his impact on | :45:54. | :45:57. | |
South Africa, it was so great. He set an example to the rest of the | :45:58. | :46:01. | |
world. We look at some of the trouble spots in the world today, | :46:02. | :46:06. | |
for example Israel and Palestine, is there a Nelson Mandela figure who | :46:07. | :46:08. | |
can help solve the problem? And is no. Or even in his own continent, in | :46:09. | :46:16. | |
Somali, the world is crying out for more Nelson Mandelas. The truth is, | :46:17. | :46:21. | |
there aren't any. What about his time as president? How did he live | :46:22. | :46:31. | |
up to what was expected of him? We often talk about Nelson Mandela the | :46:32. | :46:34. | |
freedom fighter. We often talk about him as the statesman. There was a | :46:35. | :46:39. | |
period of causing between when he was the first Democratic president. | :46:40. | :46:45. | |
That was a country where the problems facing it were so enormous. | :46:46. | :46:52. | |
He got youngsters into education, change the law in employment. He | :46:53. | :46:57. | |
started the work on a dandy HIV. One of the things he did that was a | :46:58. | :47:00. | |
dandy HIV. One of the things he did that was a Marco Lynn terms of | :47:01. | :47:06. | |
politics general -- he started the work on AIDS and HIV. Nelson | :47:07. | :47:17. | |
Mandela, his dilemma -- he managed to maintain reverence and respect | :47:18. | :47:22. | |
into old age. Your viewers will know that we don't usually grant that to | :47:23. | :47:25. | |
someone who has been denied opportunity to live a full life. He | :47:26. | :47:33. | |
had a great sense of humour. Brian, when stood out there in George | :47:34. | :47:36. | |
Square or I go straight or Sauchiehall Street, people would | :47:37. | :47:39. | |
have walked past him in campaign for decades. So people who watch him, | :47:40. | :47:44. | |
what is the point in signing petitions? Things like this prove | :47:45. | :47:49. | |
that there is a point to this sort of community campaigning. How much | :47:50. | :47:53. | |
did news of that reach him when he was incarcerated? After the rally in | :47:54. | :48:02. | |
George Square, thousands came and did not put up umbrellas although it | :48:03. | :48:05. | |
was raining, even bad for Glasgow, going in the car back to the hotel | :48:06. | :48:08. | |
with him when we went through Nelson Mandela Place, I was explaining that | :48:09. | :48:13. | |
South African consulate had been on the fifth floor of the stock | :48:14. | :48:15. | |
exchange building and that was partly why we had chosen it. We had | :48:16. | :48:20. | |
picketed it. And he had heard about it. And the point he made was that | :48:21. | :48:27. | |
the wardens were always saying, you will go out of your feet first. You | :48:28. | :48:32. | |
will not walk out of here. You are forgotten. And they tried to | :48:33. | :48:37. | |
maintain that the world had given them up, that they had been | :48:38. | :48:40. | |
forgotten about, but he said through the grapevine he heard often, and | :48:41. | :48:46. | |
the news was maybe one year after it had happened, he said it lifted our | :48:47. | :48:52. | |
spirits. So he said, I have always had a special place in my heart for | :48:53. | :48:55. | |
Glasgow because was the first city to give freedom to me. And so when | :48:56. | :49:01. | |
he came, he said, here I was, 6000 miles away, in a city that had made | :49:02. | :49:05. | |
me free, whereas in the country I was born, I was still not free. At | :49:06. | :49:10. | |
that point, he did not still have the boat. He had never voted. -- the | :49:11. | :49:19. | |
vote. How do you believe the world will remember Nelson Mandela? One of | :49:20. | :49:25. | |
the interesting things is, we go to Cape Town nowadays, people can take | :49:26. | :49:29. | |
visitors to Robben Island, and you can go into the prison cell where he | :49:30. | :49:34. | |
was held. The interesting thing is, the people who show you around where | :49:35. | :49:40. | |
his fellow prisoners, and there is huge numbers of people who go and | :49:41. | :49:45. | |
pilgrimage to Robben Island. I was lucky that I was one of the | :49:46. | :49:48. | |
observers at the first South African election in 1984 and you cannot | :49:49. | :49:53. | |
imagine the sheer emotion of people who had been totally suppressed | :49:54. | :49:55. | |
having for the first time the right to vote. -- 1994. Under Nelson | :49:56. | :50:02. | |
Mandela, that bitterness was removed from the country and it was a | :50:03. | :50:05. | |
country that moved forward in unity and harmony and peace and that was | :50:06. | :50:11. | |
an astonishing achievement. Thank you for joining us. | :50:12. | :50:16. | |
Coming up after the news, our annual A-Z extravaganza for 2013. First, | :50:17. | :50:20. | |
let's get the latest from Reporting Scotland. | :50:21. | :50:28. | |
Good afternoon. Members of the Labour Party in Falkirk will select | :50:29. | :50:31. | |
their candidate to fight the next general election. The original | :50:32. | :50:35. | |
process was abandoned after allegations of vote-rigging. The | :50:36. | :50:44. | |
seat is held by Eric Joyce, who resigned from Labour after being | :50:45. | :50:49. | |
convicted of assault. A glitch that caused hundreds of | :50:50. | :50:52. | |
flights to be delayed has been sorted, but there's still some | :50:53. | :50:55. | |
disruption for Scottish passengers. Thousands of passengers across the | :50:56. | :50:57. | |
UK faced cancellations and long waits after the phone system at the | :50:58. | :51:01. | |
National Air Traffic Service broke down. | :51:02. | :51:03. | |
A US-inspired scheme which provides support for teenage mothers is to be | :51:04. | :51:07. | |
extended. The Family Nurse Partnership aims to help first-time | :51:08. | :51:14. | |
parents. Frequent visits from nurses. It operates in seven areas | :51:15. | :51:18. | |
and will be rolled out to NHS Forth Valley and Grampian next year. | :51:19. | :51:28. | |
Let's have a look at the weather. A rather dull look to the afternoon | :51:29. | :51:32. | |
with a vibrator rain for many. The rain most persistent and heaviest | :51:33. | :51:33. | |
crossed western parts. Some drier interludes in southern | :51:34. | :51:42. | |
and eastern Scotland. Potentially after 13 Celsius across the North | :51:43. | :51:48. | |
East. A fresh the strong wind. The rain gradually becomes confined to | :51:49. | :51:52. | |
the West tonight but it will be heavy and persistent. Predominantly | :51:53. | :51:55. | |
dry elsewhere, it will be mild and breezy. | :51:56. | :51:58. | |
That's all for now. Our next update is at 6:10pm. I'll now hand you back | :51:59. | :52:02. | |
to Gary. So, we have seen snow this week, | :52:03. | :52:07. | |
Christmas is coming and this is the last of our programmes for 2013, so | :52:08. | :52:11. | |
it is time for our annual A-Z review of the year. | :52:12. | :52:32. | |
Andy Murray is the Wimbledon champion! | :52:33. | :53:25. | |
We did, after all, see that picture with the shocking ain't fat and the | :53:26. | :53:33. | |
shades, but I have exclusively revealed that Alex Salmond is on the | :53:34. | :53:39. | |
same day it as Beyonce. -- same diet. | :53:40. | :54:00. | |
I have been elected to serve in the Scottish Parliament. | :54:01. | :55:12. | |
People formed a human change am a side-by-side with each other, to | :55:13. | :55:20. | |
help pull injured people out. RU OK? Gym, there is blood on your | :55:21. | :55:24. | |
shirt. It is not mine. Scotland's future is now in | :55:25. | :56:18. | |
Scotland's hands. There is nothing new in it, there is nothing | :56:19. | :56:22. | |
published that they could not have told us about yesterday. | :56:23. | :57:19. | |
Never, never and never again shall it be that this beautiful land will | :57:20. | :57:32. | |
again experience the oppression of one by another. The sun shall never | :57:33. | :57:40. | |
set on so glorious a human achievement. | :57:41. | :57:52. | |
Professor Peter Higgs, University of Edinburgh. I asked, what used you | :57:53. | :58:08. | |
Mac she told me her daughter had phoned her from London to alert her | :58:09. | :58:17. | |
to the fact I had won this prize. Super Puma helicopter has crashed | :58:18. | :58:18. | |
into sea off Shetland. Clearly, it is anti-English. They | :58:19. | :59:34. | |
hate the union Jack. We will freeze gas and electricity | :59:35. | :00:51. | |
prices until the start of 2017. Regrettably, that will mean 835 job | :00:52. | :01:51. | |
losses across Filton, the Clyde and Rosyth, and the closure of the | :01:52. | :01:53. | |
company's shipbuilding yard in Portsmouth. | :01:54. | :02:17. | |
Just some of the events that shaped 2013. A special thank you goes to | :02:18. | :02:24. | |
Grace Kirkwood and Stuart Pauley for putting that film together. It is a | :02:25. | :02:28. | |
full house with us today, welcome to best selling author Chris Verbruggen | :02:29. | :02:30. | |
are, broadcaster and journalist Ruth Wishart, GC Derek Ogg and last but | :02:31. | :02:35. | |
not the -- not least, Professor Alan Miller. Let's start with Nelson | :02:36. | :02:41. | |
Mandela, tributes being paid this weekend to him. When you're growing | :02:42. | :02:47. | |
up, Watsi at personal hero? Very much so. The first political | :02:48. | :02:52. | |
activity it a place in at university, Gordon Brown was | :02:53. | :02:57. | |
candidate for student director and he organised a sitting at Edinburgh | :02:58. | :03:01. | |
University's Administration building to disinvest in South Africa. The | :03:02. | :03:05. | |
university had huge shareholdings in South African companies. | :03:06. | :03:10. | |
Anti-apartheid was the very first political action I ever took part | :03:11. | :03:14. | |
in. It had been with us for so many years, it is extraordinary to think | :03:15. | :03:18. | |
now that those ideas of apartheid actually existed in our own | :03:19. | :03:22. | |
lifetimes. People were so dreadfully persecuted in that way. As someone | :03:23. | :03:26. | |
who has worked in the field of human rights, how would you assess his | :03:27. | :03:31. | |
legacy two I think like countless millions around the world, I have | :03:32. | :03:34. | |
been inspired my life by Nelson Mandela. He epitomised the human | :03:35. | :03:39. | |
spirit. He transcended race, class, nationality. He brought out the best | :03:40. | :03:45. | |
in us all. He made us all bigger in ourselves by how he led his life. | :03:46. | :03:49. | |
The legacy is important, we all pay our tributes, but how to protect and | :03:50. | :03:53. | |
nurture the legacy is where we need to look now, and as we debate | :03:54. | :03:57. | |
Scotland's constitutional future, we can learn from South Africa. They | :03:58. | :04:02. | |
have protected them Agassi by enshrining in constitution and | :04:03. | :04:05. | |
universal human rights that Mandela gave his life towards. I think that | :04:06. | :04:11. | |
is secure in our country's busted usual future, no matter what the | :04:12. | :04:15. | |
outcome of the referendum, it is one way of measuring the legacy of | :04:16. | :04:21. | |
Mandela. This has dominated domestic politics for the last year, as it | :04:22. | :04:25. | |
been something of a phoney war up until now? I think it probably was | :04:26. | :04:29. | |
until the white paper came out. You could have written what was said | :04:30. | :04:32. | |
about the White Paper before it was published, I think the war in | :04:33. | :04:38. | |
earnest starts in 2014. There is a nine-month run up, and things will | :04:39. | :04:45. | |
probably turn a little less savoury. My personal plea, I was at a meeting | :04:46. | :04:48. | |
last week of people who are undecided, everyone was encourage to | :04:49. | :04:58. | |
be honest about their feelings, but there was not a politician insight. | :04:59. | :05:03. | |
But a very present evening. Have you heard enough to make up your mind? | :05:04. | :05:09. | |
Suddenly. I was looking at the Mandela package. When I was a | :05:10. | :05:13. | |
student, there was a sense of nothing changing, so it seemed | :05:14. | :05:15. | |
astonishing that a few years later Nelson Mandela was released. Then we | :05:16. | :05:22. | |
had flowed cuckoo land, as Margaret Thatcher described it. The notion | :05:23. | :05:26. | |
that 25 years ago that Scotland would be on the verge of this | :05:27. | :05:29. | |
referendum seems incredible. It seems very exciting. I think we are | :05:30. | :05:34. | |
privileged to have the chance to debate our future this way. This is | :05:35. | :05:40. | |
not me avoiding standing on one side of the fence, I did not need to be | :05:41. | :05:43. | |
convinced by the White Paper. What about you, Derek Ogg two have you | :05:44. | :05:49. | |
made a decision yet you Mac I thought it read more like a | :05:50. | :05:53. | |
manifesto for the SNP. The SNP are quite good governors. They are an | :05:54. | :05:58. | |
honest party and a heart seems to be in the right place. But I was not | :05:59. | :06:01. | |
getting a vision of what an independent Scotland would look like | :06:02. | :06:04. | |
and I am not buying a pig in a poke, so I am not voting for independence | :06:05. | :06:10. | |
this time round. It is not about the small print in a white paper our | :06:11. | :06:16. | |
manifesto from either side. For me, it is a vision and value thing about | :06:17. | :06:20. | |
the kind of Scotland you wish to see in the future and what swayed me was | :06:21. | :06:26. | |
the more mean-spirited things became, in terms of the bedroom tax, | :06:27. | :06:30. | |
the more mean-spirited things became as a result of the Coalition | :06:31. | :06:33. | |
Government policies, the more I wanted to construct something better | :06:34. | :06:40. | |
in Scotland. Looking at the footage of Nigel Farage there, you realise | :06:41. | :06:44. | |
that this was a year in which a huge amount of the British national | :06:45. | :06:47. | |
political agenda has been dictated by this minority figure. And it is | :06:48. | :06:54. | |
concerned that we tend not to fuss about in Scottish politics. So the | :06:55. | :06:59. | |
idea of us being in bed with the elephant has brought into sharp | :07:00. | :07:05. | |
focus by something like that, defer the Conservative Party have of Nigel | :07:06. | :07:09. | |
Farage is the reason we are seeing the go home and text and posters. | :07:10. | :07:15. | |
The chance of independence gives us an opportunity to not have our | :07:16. | :07:18. | |
political agenda dictated in the future. Ruth mentioned that people | :07:19. | :07:24. | |
are not decided. We know that from the opinion polls. What will it take | :07:25. | :07:30. | |
to persuade those people? Respect for them. My sense is that people | :07:31. | :07:34. | |
want to make up their own minds, and they will. He will not be told what | :07:35. | :07:39. | |
to do. They will not be sold anything, they want reliable | :07:40. | :07:42. | |
information. I think they want to know what kind of Scotland is it | :07:43. | :07:46. | |
that is on offer from either side, and that is the sort of discussion. | :07:47. | :07:50. | |
I agree with Ruth, talking to people who are undecided, it is that kind | :07:51. | :07:55. | |
of discussion. The bedroom tax comes up a lot and it links to what we | :07:56. | :08:00. | |
said about Mandela. Do we want some constitutional framework, whether it | :08:01. | :08:03. | |
is devolved or independent, where these fundamental rights to live | :08:04. | :08:10. | |
your life with your family with an adequate standard of living should | :08:11. | :08:13. | |
not be subject to this short-term political pressure and a two-day | :08:14. | :08:16. | |
policies of this party or that Government. It is something much | :08:17. | :08:20. | |
more serious than I think we have been given so far in the debate. I | :08:21. | :08:30. | |
talk about the Catholic Church. Cardinal Keith O'Brien stand the | :08:31. | :08:36. | |
gonad allegations of abuse. This is not exclusive to this year but I | :08:37. | :08:43. | |
wonder whether the reason we keep, the story keeps coming back, is | :08:44. | :08:46. | |
because the Catholic Church does not get to the root of the problem. I | :08:47. | :08:51. | |
thought when the story broke, if I had written this, a story of a very | :08:52. | :08:56. | |
vocal anti-homosexual religious figure who turned out to be a secret | :08:57. | :09:02. | |
self folding homosexual, I would say -- people would say, you have to be | :09:03. | :09:07. | |
more subtle. It is beyond satire. But it is the root of the problem, | :09:08. | :09:11. | |
the Catholic Church is essentially in an ongoing war with human nature | :09:12. | :09:13. | |
when it comes to issues of sexuality. Until those lessons are | :09:14. | :09:17. | |
learned and addressed, this story will keep happening. Is it fair to | :09:18. | :09:23. | |
say that often the victims are the forgotten ones when we talk about | :09:24. | :09:27. | |
some of these abuse cases? Some of the victims this year have felt as | :09:28. | :09:30. | |
though they did not have the support they would want. That is right, | :09:31. | :09:34. | |
certainly in the case with Cardinal Keith O'Brien. For me, the real | :09:35. | :09:40. | |
underlying scandal concerns the child abuse and the fact that not | :09:41. | :09:44. | |
just in Scotland, are not just in England or America or elsewhere, | :09:45. | :09:48. | |
people have not investigated that. People who have known about it have | :09:49. | :09:52. | |
chosen just to ask the offending priest around different parishes in | :09:53. | :09:55. | |
the full knowledge that someone else might become that victim. Until the | :09:56. | :10:01. | |
church claims that up, I think we will always be suspicious but having | :10:02. | :10:05. | |
said that, it is the year we got Pope Francis, who is by far the most | :10:06. | :10:09. | |
compassionate sounding Pope we have seen in a long time. He seems to be | :10:10. | :10:13. | |
softening the Church's view on homosexuality yet we have a Catholic | :10:14. | :10:17. | |
Church in Scotland is against the idea of same-sex marriage. There | :10:18. | :10:22. | |
seems to be a contradiction there. I will not hold my breath waiting for | :10:23. | :10:25. | |
the Catholic Church to support me and my partner in everyday | :10:26. | :10:30. | |
relationship. We need to separate two things, adult gay relationships, | :10:31. | :10:33. | |
and the Catholic Church's attitude to it, and the abuse of children, | :10:34. | :10:38. | |
which is not just the Catholic Church but other institutions that | :10:39. | :10:41. | |
looked after children, or are supposed to, get involved in. One | :10:42. | :10:46. | |
thing Nelson Mandela's legacy is, one way to approach conflict like | :10:47. | :10:52. | |
that and victimhood like that is reconciliation and truth. The | :10:53. | :10:55. | |
Catholic Church has a lot of truth it has to confront and a lot of | :10:56. | :11:00. | |
reconciling to do and that is the way to clear those particular | :11:01. | :11:04. | |
stables out. The same-sex marriage thing, it goes to show, one thing | :11:05. | :11:08. | |
about this year is, we can look and see how much change happens in our | :11:09. | :11:11. | |
lifetime, looking at Thatcher and Mandela having died, but 30 odd | :11:12. | :11:17. | |
years ago I lived in a country where it was illegal for anyone of any age | :11:18. | :11:21. | |
to have homosexual sex in any circumstances. Now we are cocking | :11:22. | :11:27. | |
about same-sex marriage, civil partnership. -- now we are talking | :11:28. | :11:35. | |
about. You only have to look to Russia to see what happens if you | :11:36. | :11:37. | |
are not vigilant about rights. That is why Alan has got his work cut out | :11:38. | :11:44. | |
for him. There has been a lot of negativity about historic child | :11:45. | :11:47. | |
abuse this year. A piece of work has been taking place in Scotland which | :11:48. | :11:51. | |
I think next year will yield significant progress and access to | :11:52. | :11:54. | |
justice for victims of historic abuse. It borrows a lot from the | :11:55. | :11:58. | |
Mandela legacy because the commission has brought around the | :11:59. | :12:01. | |
table, for the first time in Scotland, the victims. Sitting next | :12:02. | :12:05. | |
to none is and other representatives. -- sitting next to | :12:06. | :12:11. | |
nuns that are supposed to have perpetrated abuse. This is what | :12:12. | :12:16. | |
Mandela stood for, it has been quite transformative in understanding the | :12:17. | :12:21. | |
situation of each, what they require, how they can move on in | :12:22. | :12:25. | |
life and agree on what steps have to be taken. I am hoping that in 2014, | :12:26. | :12:31. | |
those steps, which have been identified in this round table | :12:32. | :12:34. | |
throughout 2013, will finally see some justice for the victims of | :12:35. | :12:38. | |
historic child abuse. Let's talk about Andy Murray. I am sure you're | :12:39. | :12:43. | |
jumping up and down with joy. He first came across my radar when he | :12:44. | :12:48. | |
won the junior US Open and since then I have watched every match. I | :12:49. | :12:56. | |
played every shot with him. It is such a life enhancing thing. I am a | :12:57. | :13:00. | |
big sports fan, I spent a lot of time at Hampden and Murrayfield, and | :13:01. | :13:04. | |
that is a particular form of masochism. But then you get Andy | :13:05. | :13:09. | |
Murray, who is just brilliant. I love his sense of humour. I love the | :13:10. | :13:13. | |
way he plays. I love that very Scottish sense of humour that a lot | :13:14. | :13:18. | |
of folk do not understand. He is a complete star and I hope he wins in | :13:19. | :13:23. | |
other couple next year. It has taken a lot of people a long time to | :13:24. | :13:26. | |
understand and the's sense of humour. It has not taken Scottish | :13:27. | :13:32. | |
people a long time. I did not get to see the final because I was in Italy | :13:33. | :13:35. | |
and I was going through all the channel trying to find it, and I was | :13:36. | :13:40. | |
not able to find it. It occurred to me, I said to my wife, can you name | :13:41. | :13:47. | |
an Italian tennis player? I was following it by BBC text updates. He | :13:48. | :13:52. | |
gets to the final stages and it disappeared from the telephone. That | :13:53. | :13:57. | |
is when I realised it was no longer ongoing, it was over. That is all we | :13:58. | :14:03. | |
have got time for. No time to talk about the pandas, but maybe next | :14:04. | :14:07. | |
year. That is all from us from this week and this one. We are back again | :14:08. | :14:11. | |
in the New Year. If you are missing your political fix, you can watch | :14:12. | :14:15. | |
The Politics Show on Wednesday. | :14:16. | :14:21. |