08/12/2013 Sunday Politics Scotland


08/12/2013

The latest political news, interviews and debate in Scotland.


Similar Content

Browse content similar to 08/12/2013. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!

Transcript


LineFromTo

Morning, folks. Welcome to the Sunday Politics. First some

:00:36.:00:40.

Sunday-morning cheer, if you're an MP that is. You're set to get an 11%

:00:41.:00:46.

pay rise! But what does this man deserve? The Chancellor's gone from

:00:47.:00:49.

zero to hero for some, who credit him for turning the economy around.

:00:50.:00:53.

We'll be taking a fine tooth comb to his Autumn statement.

:00:54.:01:07.

Should this man get an 11% pay rise? Ed Balls was certainly working very

:01:08.:01:10.

hard to be heard last Thursday. We'll be reviewing his performance.

:01:11.:01:14.

And what about this man? We'll be joined by England's Chief Inspector

:01:15.:01:17.

of Schools. He's been writing his annual report this week. Will the

:01:18.:01:22.

Government achieve an A star? And coming up on Sunday Politics

:01:23.:01:25.

Scotland, join us for our end-of-year review.

:01:26.:01:30.

they achieved a C+. But they are all we could afford and there will be no

:01:31.:01:54.

pay rise for them. They will be glued to an electronic device

:01:55.:01:57.

throughout the programme and if we are lucky they might stop there

:01:58.:02:03.

internet shopping and tweet something intelligent. But don't

:02:04.:02:07.

hold your breath. Janan Ganesh, Helen Lewis and Nick Watt. Last

:02:08.:02:12.

week, storms were battering Britain, the East Coast was hit by the worst

:02:13.:02:15.

tidal surge in more than a century, thousands of people had to be

:02:16.:02:19.

evacuated and Nelson Mandela died. The downed the news agenda was the

:02:20.:02:24.

small matter of George Osborne's Autumn Statement. His giveaways, his

:02:25.:02:30.

takeaways and his first opportunity to announce some economic cheer.

:02:31.:02:38.

It might be winter outside, but in the studios it is awesome. Autumn

:02:39.:02:49.

Statement time. -- autumn. This is a moment of TV history. Normally when

:02:50.:02:53.

the Chancellor delivers these statements, he has to say the

:02:54.:02:56.

economy is actually a lot worse than everyone predicted. This time, he

:02:57.:03:01.

can stand up and say the economy is better than everybody predicted. A

:03:02.:03:02.

lot better. Britain is currently growing faster

:03:03.:03:11.

than any other major advanced economy. Faster than France, which

:03:12.:03:18.

is contracting, faster than Germany, faster even than America. At this

:03:19.:03:24.

Autumn Statement last year, there were repeated predictions that

:03:25.:03:28.

borrowing would go up. Instead, borrowing is down, and down

:03:29.:03:32.

significantly more than forecast. But George Osborne said the good

:03:33.:03:35.

numbers still mean more tough decisions. We will not give up in

:03:36.:03:41.

giving in our country's debts. We will not spend the money from lower

:03:42.:03:45.

borrowing. We will not squander the harder and games of the British

:03:46.:03:53.

people. -- hard earned gains. In other news, further cuts to

:03:54.:03:56.

government departments. The state pension age will increase in the

:03:57.:04:02.

2040s, affecting people in their 40s now. There were some goodies, like

:04:03.:04:08.

discounted business rates for small businesses, free school meals for

:04:09.:04:11.

infants, favoured by the Lib Dems, and those marriage tax breaks below

:04:12.:04:16.

that by the Tories. But, as with all big fiscal events, it takes a while

:04:17.:04:18.

for the details to sink in. The marriage tax allowance is a

:04:19.:04:26.

long-standing commitment that he could not abandon. It does help

:04:27.:04:29.

those families were only one goes out to work. It does not go to

:04:30.:04:35.

higher rate taxpayers, I don't think. Perhaps it does, I can't

:04:36.:04:40.

remember. It makes me feel guilty, I am taking them very seriously,

:04:41.:04:45.

but... Shall I give you them? There is the Autumn Statement. Have that,

:04:46.:04:48.

a free gift from the Sunday Politics. Is there no limit to the

:04:49.:04:52.

generosity of the BBC? In the meantime, Twitter was awash

:04:53.:05:02.

with unflattering pictures of a red-faced Ed Balls giving his

:05:03.:05:06.

response. Some pictures were more than flattering than others. Is Ed

:05:07.:05:12.

Balls OK? Should we be worrying about him? He looks very stressed.

:05:13.:05:16.

There is nothing to worry about in terms of Ed balls and his analysis.

:05:17.:05:20.

He and Ed Miliband have been setting the pace in terms of the focus on

:05:21.:05:28.

the living standards crisis. It was very telling that there was not a

:05:29.:05:31.

mention of living standards last time, we got 12 mentions this time.

:05:32.:05:36.

Never mind what he was saying, by now everybody has a copy of the

:05:37.:05:43.

all-important paperwork. Time to hand over to number cruncher

:05:44.:05:45.

extraordinaire Paul Johnson from the Institute for Fiscal Studies. Of

:05:46.:05:50.

course it means that things are significantly better this year and

:05:51.:05:53.

next than we thought they would be just nine months ago. That has got

:05:54.:05:57.

to be good news. But it is also worth looking at the growth figures

:05:58.:06:01.

a few years out. They have been revised down a little bit. The

:06:02.:06:09.

reason is, the view of the office of budget response ability is that the

:06:10.:06:12.

long run has not really changed very much. We are getting a bit more

:06:13.:06:16.

growth now, but their view is that it is at the cost of a little bit of

:06:17.:06:19.

the growth we will expect in the years after the next general

:06:20.:06:24.

election. As the day draws to a close, the one place there has

:06:25.:06:28.

definitely been no growth is the graphics budget of my colleague,

:06:29.:06:36.

Robert Preston. It's as good as it gets these days, I don't think the

:06:37.:06:40.

viewers will mind. It's very Sunday Politics, if I might say. That is

:06:41.:06:48.

very worrying. Was this a watershed for George

:06:49.:06:53.

Osborne? Was it a watershed for Ed Balls? We can all make the case that

:06:54.:06:57.

it is the wrong sort of recovery, a consumer led recovery. People are

:06:58.:07:01.

spending money they don't have. At the end of the day, it for George

:07:02.:07:05.

Osborne, it is growth, the first time he has been able to talk about

:07:06.:07:10.

growth. It allows him to control the baseline, the fiscal debate for the

:07:11.:07:14.

next generation. For Ed Balls, nearly not a good performance. But

:07:15.:07:18.

don't write this man off. Judging by Twitter, Iain Dale, no friend of it

:07:19.:07:22.

all is, said he did a good interview this morning on a rival TV channel.

:07:23.:07:31.

I feel the fact that the Tories hate Ed Balls so passionately is probably

:07:32.:07:34.

a good reason that they should hang onto him, in that Labour sends his

:07:35.:07:41.

effectiveness. May be the Tories hope that they hold on to him as

:07:42.:07:47.

well? A lot of people shouting at someone and mocking their speech

:07:48.:07:50.

impediment, that is politics that doesn't make me want to engage. The

:07:51.:07:53.

takeaway will be lots of people thinking that none of these people

:07:54.:07:59.

are people they like. Who is the main heckler on the Labour front

:08:00.:08:02.

bench West remarked I suppose he can't cast any stones. It would be

:08:03.:08:07.

easier to sympathise with him, if it were not that David Cameron went

:08:08.:08:10.

through a similar situation and John Bercow did not step in to stop the

:08:11.:08:16.

wall of noise. It was guaranteed a good happen to a Labour politician.

:08:17.:08:24.

It's painful to remove him because he had a Parliamentary following and

:08:25.:08:31.

he will kick up a fuss. I think he's much more pragmatic on issues like

:08:32.:08:36.

business than Ed Miliband. I'm told he wasn't keen on the energy price

:08:37.:08:42.

freeze. The problem with Ed Balls, to have the first words that you

:08:43.:08:46.

say, the Chancellor is in denial, after he is presiding over growth,

:08:47.:08:51.

it means nobody is listening to you. Who would replace him? Certainly not

:08:52.:08:55.

Alistair Darling, the side of the referendum and even afterwards. Ed

:08:56.:08:59.

Balls did get a roasting in the press and on Twitter. He seemed to

:09:00.:09:02.

disappear from public view following the Autumn Statement. But a little

:09:03.:09:06.

bird tells me he managed one interview this morning before he

:09:07.:09:09.

went off to an all-important piano recital this afternoon. Watch out,

:09:10.:09:14.

Jools Holland, he could be after your job. How bad was his

:09:15.:09:17.

performance on Thursday? Here is the Shadow Chancellor in action. The

:09:18.:09:24.

Chancellor is incomplete denial about the central facts that are

:09:25.:09:29.

defining this government in office. He used to say he would balance the

:09:30.:09:40.

books in 2015. Now he wants us to congratulate him for saying he will

:09:41.:09:45.

do it in 2019, Mr Speaker. With this government, it is clearly not just

:09:46.:09:52.

the badgers that move the goalposts. No mention of the universal credit

:09:53.:09:59.

in the statement. IDS, in deep shambles, Mr Speaker. Chris Leslie

:10:00.:10:09.

is the Shadow Chief Secretary to the Treasury. He is Ed Balls's deputy,

:10:10.:10:15.

in other words. Why do more and more of your Labour colleagues think that

:10:16.:10:21.

your boss is below the water line? I'm not sure I accept the premise of

:10:22.:10:24.

your suggestion. I don't think my colleagues believe that George

:10:25.:10:30.

Osborne has a superior argument. I think Ed Balls will certainly trying

:10:31.:10:33.

his best, loud and clear, to make the case there is a cost of living

:10:34.:10:37.

crisis in this country and the Chancellor doesn't understand this.

:10:38.:10:40.

That was essentially the heat of the debate on the Autumn Statement day.

:10:41.:10:46.

One leading Labour MPs said to me that Ed Balls is always looking

:10:47.:10:48.

back, fixated with the rear-view mirror, that was the exact quote. A

:10:49.:10:54.

Labour MP told Sky News, Labour has a strong argument to make,

:10:55.:10:58.

unfortunately it was not made well in the chamber today. Quoting the

:10:59.:11:07.

Daily Mail, this is two poor performances. A quote that I can't

:11:08.:11:12.

use because it uses too many four letter words. Baroness Armstrong,

:11:13.:11:17.

speaking at Progress, a former Labour Cabinet minister, we are not

:11:18.:11:22.

sufficiently concerned about public spending, how we would pay for what

:11:23.:11:25.

we are talking about. Quite a battering? There were two sets of

:11:26.:11:29.

quotes you were giving. The couple were about the strategy for tackling

:11:30.:11:35.

public expenditure. I think it's fair that we talk about that. The

:11:36.:11:41.

rest were pretty unattributed, nameless sources. You have never

:11:42.:11:52.

given and of the record briefing? We have conversations off camera, but I

:11:53.:11:56.

don't think you have a wealth of evidence to say that somehow Ed

:11:57.:12:01.

Balls's arguments were wrong. He was making the point that, ultimately,

:12:02.:12:05.

it is a government that does not have its finger on the pulse about

:12:06.:12:10.

what most of your viewers are concerned about, that wages are

:12:11.:12:13.

being squeezed and prices are getting higher and higher. You have

:12:14.:12:17.

had time to study the Autumn Statement. What part of it does

:12:18.:12:24.

Labour disagree with? It is a very big question. I think the overall

:12:25.:12:30.

strategy the Autumn Statement is setting out does not deal with the

:12:31.:12:33.

fundamental problems in the economy. What measures do you disagree with?

:12:34.:12:38.

A lot of it is the absence of measures we would have put in if we

:12:39.:12:41.

were doing the Autumn Statement. If you are going to deal with the cost

:12:42.:12:45.

of living crisis, you have got to get productivity levels up in our

:12:46.:12:48.

society. One of the best ways of doing that is on infrastructure. We

:12:49.:12:53.

believe in bringing forward 's investment and housing, getting some

:12:54.:12:57.

of the fundamentals right in our economy. By planting, the business

:12:58.:13:05.

lending we have to do. We have seen a lamentable failing. There are big

:13:06.:13:14.

structural reforms that we need. Ultimately, the public are concerned

:13:15.:13:17.

about the cost of living crisis. That has got to be childcare help, a

:13:18.:13:22.

10p starting rate of tax. Above all, and energy price freeze, which

:13:23.:13:26.

still this government are refusing to do. On Friday, you told me you

:13:27.:13:31.

supported the principle of a welfare cap. But you change bling claim the

:13:32.:13:37.

Chancellor's cap included pensions. You have now seen the figures, and

:13:38.:13:41.

it does not include pensions, correct? We do want a welfare cap.

:13:42.:13:46.

The government have said they are going to put more detail on this in

:13:47.:13:52.

the March budget. But it does not include pensions? We think they have

:13:53.:13:56.

a short term approach to the welfare cap. They put in some pension

:13:57.:14:02.

benefits. The state pension is not in the short-term plan because, as

:14:03.:14:05.

we believe, a triple lock is a good idea. In the longer term, if you are

:14:06.:14:11.

talking about structural welfare issues, you do have to think about

:14:12.:14:14.

pensions because they have to be sustainable if we are living

:14:15.:14:16.

longer. I think that is about the careful management. Let me show you

:14:17.:14:22.

what Ed Balls said on this programme at the start of the summer. As for

:14:23.:14:28.

pensioners, I think this is a real question. George Osborne is going to

:14:29.:14:31.

announce his cap in two weeks time. I don't know if he will exclude

:14:32.:14:35.

pension spending or including. Our plan is to include it. Pension

:14:36.:14:39.

spending would be included in the welfare cap? That is our plan,

:14:40.:14:45.

exactly what I just said. Over the long-term, if you have a serious

:14:46.:14:48.

welfare cap structural welfare issues, over 20, 30, 40 year

:14:49.:14:54.

period, you can't say that we will not work and pensions as part of

:14:55.:14:59.

that. Pensions would be part of the Labour cap? In the longer term. What

:15:00.:15:06.

is the longer term? If you win 2015? We want to stick with the triple

:15:07.:15:12.

lock on the pension, that is the Government approach to their

:15:13.:15:16.

short-term welfare cap. In the longer term, for example, on the

:15:17.:15:20.

winter fuel allowance, we should not necessarily be... There are lots of

:15:21.:15:26.

benefits... I understand that, I am talking about the basic state

:15:27.:15:29.

pension, is that part of your welfare cap or not? In a 20, 30, 40

:15:30.:15:36.

year frame... Even you will not be around in government, then. You are

:15:37.:15:46.

writing me off already. You have to focus on welfare changes, pensions

:15:47.:15:49.

have to be affordable as part of that. It's dangerous to say, well,

:15:50.:15:53.

if you are going to have a serious welfare cap, we should not look at

:15:54.:15:56.

pensions cost. It would be irresponsible. Will pensions be part

:15:57.:16:04.

of the cap from 2015 until 2020 if Labour is in power? In our long-term

:16:05.:16:08.

cap we have to make sure... I'm talking about 2015-16. We haven't

:16:09.:16:16.

seen the proposition the Government has put before us.

:16:17.:16:22.

You claim people of ?1600 worse off under the coalition. That is true

:16:23.:16:33.

when you compare to pay and prices. Can you confirm that calculation

:16:34.:16:37.

does not include the ?700 tax cut from raising the income tax

:16:38.:16:42.

threshold, huge savings on mortgages because of low interest or the

:16:43.:16:47.

freezing of council tax? It doesn't include the tax and benefit

:16:48.:16:51.

changes. If you do want to look at those, last year, the ISS said they

:16:52.:16:57.

could be making people worse off. It might not include those factors. The

:16:58.:17:05.

VAT increase, tax credit cuts, child benefit cuts, they all add up. My

:17:06.:17:11.

understanding is that the ISS figures have said people are ?891

:17:12.:17:17.

worse off if you look at the tax and benefit changes since 2010. You have

:17:18.:17:24.

to look at wages and prices. The ISS confirmed our approach was broadly

:17:25.:17:28.

the right way of assessing what is happening. The Chancellor was

:17:29.:17:34.

saying, real household disposable incomes are rising. He is completely

:17:35.:17:40.

out of touch. Can you sum up the macro economic policy for Labour?

:17:41.:17:44.

Invest in the future, make sure we have the right approach for the

:17:45.:17:49.

long-term politicking. Tackle the cost of living crisis people are

:17:50.:17:52.

facing. Now, let's talk to the Financial

:17:53.:17:55.

Secretary to the Treasury, Sajid Javid.

:17:56.:18:03.

Discovery, underpinned by rising house prices, increasing personal

:18:04.:18:10.

debt, do you accept that is unsustainable?

:18:11.:18:14.

I accept the OBE are also said the reason why this country is facing

:18:15.:18:20.

more these challenges -- OBR. That is because we went through a

:18:21.:18:27.

Labour recession, the worst we have seen in 100 years. But do you accept

:18:28.:18:35.

that a recovery underpinned by these things I have just read out isn't

:18:36.:18:40.

sustainable? We set out a long-term plan for recovery, and again this

:18:41.:18:46.

week. We have shown with the tough decisions we have made already, the

:18:47.:18:50.

country can enjoy a recovery. There are still a lot of difficult

:18:51.:18:55.

decisions. The biggest risk are Labour's plans. The March

:18:56.:19:06.

projections work at for those -- for both business investment and

:19:07.:19:10.

exports. Suddenly it is expected to rise 5% next year, a 10% turnaround

:19:11.:19:17.

in investment. How is it credible? I have been in business before

:19:18.:19:21.

politics. Any business person listening will know, when you have

:19:22.:19:25.

gone through a recession, the deepest in 100 years, it will hit

:19:26.:19:31.

investment, profits, you can't make plans again until you have

:19:32.:19:35.

confidence in the economy. That is what this country is seeing now

:19:36.:19:43.

under this government. This is an assumption made independently. The

:19:44.:19:50.

fall in business investment is because of the recession. The

:19:51.:19:56.

forecast increases, 5% next year, and so on, it is based on the

:19:57.:20:03.

independent forecast. Based on fact. If you look at the investment plans

:20:04.:20:08.

of companies, this week, the Chancellor went to JCB, Jaguar Land

:20:09.:20:16.

Rover has plans to create more jobs, these investment plans are

:20:17.:20:19.

coming through now because of the confidence generated by this

:20:20.:20:24.

government, such as the cut in corporation tax which Labour would

:20:25.:20:29.

increase. Are the export forecasts more credible? The 15 years, our

:20:30.:20:34.

share of world trade decline. Suddenly starting next year, it

:20:35.:20:42.

stops falling. That's not credible. I worked in finance the 20 years. I

:20:43.:20:47.

have yet to find any forecast which is fully right. Under Labour, we

:20:48.:20:55.

would have forecasts made by Gordon Brown who would announce he would

:20:56.:21:01.

hit all his targets. Now we have an independent system.

:21:02.:21:06.

Do you accept, if exports or business investment do not pick up,

:21:07.:21:12.

then a purely consumer led recovery is not sustainable? We need more

:21:13.:21:16.

than a consumer led recovery. We need consumer investment to go up.

:21:17.:21:24.

On Xbox, it is noticeable that experts are primarily down because

:21:25.:21:27.

the markets we trade with, the eurozone markets, are depressed.

:21:28.:21:32.

Many have just come out of recession. Or they are still in

:21:33.:21:38.

recession. If you look at exports to non-EU countries, they are up 30%.

:21:39.:21:48.

120% to China. 100% to Russia. Will you keep the triple lock for

:21:49.:21:54.

the state pension beyond 2015? Yes, long term. That's why it is not part

:21:55.:22:00.

of our welfare cap. Chris Leslie cannot answer that question. It is

:22:01.:22:04.

straightforward. House prices are now rising ten

:22:05.:22:12.

times faster than average earnings. That's not good. House prices are

:22:13.:22:20.

rising, partly reflecting recovery. Ten times faster than average

:22:21.:22:24.

earnings, how can people afford to buy homes if it carries on? What you

:22:25.:22:30.

would hope, this is the evidence, if you look at the plans of the month

:22:31.:22:33.

companies, they are planning new homes which will mean that, as this

:22:34.:22:41.

demand spurs that investment, more homes will come about. We need to

:22:42.:22:45.

give people the means to buy those homes. We have introduced the help

:22:46.:23:34.

to buy scheme. I accept the OBR says it will start rising again but as

:23:35.:23:39.

household debt rises again Petr Cech reduces, -- as household debt

:23:40.:23:53.

reduces, we need to make sure there are checks in place. Wages have not

:23:54.:23:57.

been rising in real terms for quite some time. Over the next five years,

:23:58.:24:06.

even as the economy grows, by about 15% according the OBR to the OBR --

:24:07.:24:18.

but people will not benefit. These hard-working families will not share

:24:19.:24:24.

in the recovery. What is the best way to help those families? The

:24:25.:24:30.

government doesn't set wages. What we can do is influence the overall

:24:31.:24:34.

economy. We don't have a magic lever. Wages have been stagnating

:24:35.:24:44.

for five years. When will people get a proper salary? The best way for

:24:45.:24:50.

wage growth is a growing economy, more jobs. We have more people

:24:51.:24:54.

employed in Britain today than at any time in our history. The biggest

:24:55.:25:01.

risk to recovery is if we let Labour into the Treasury with more spending

:25:02.:25:06.

and more debt. Which got us into this trouble. By whatever measure

:25:07.:25:11.

you care to choose, would people be better off come the 20 15th election

:25:12.:25:17.

than they were in 2010? Yes, they will be. Look at jobs. Already more

:25:18.:25:24.

people employed than at any other time in history. Will they be better

:25:25.:25:28.

off? The best way for anyone to raise their living standards is

:25:29.:25:33.

access to a growing job market. But will they be better off? I believe

:25:34.:25:41.

people will be. Compared to 2010. Yes. In terms of take-home pay. This

:25:42.:25:46.

is a credible measure. Now, what do you think the Education

:25:47.:25:52.

Secretary, Michael Gove, was like at school? Hard-working? Hand always

:25:53.:25:56.

up? Top of the class? Well, if he wasn't passionate about education

:25:57.:25:59.

then, he is now. In fact, since he took office, it seems he hasn't

:26:00.:26:06.

stopped working very hard indeed. When the coalition came to power,

:26:07.:26:09.

Michael Gove evoked Mao, saying they were on a long march to reform

:26:10.:26:12.

education. Just like Mao, they faced a baby boom, so pledged ?5 billion

:26:13.:26:19.

for new school places. They extended Labour's academy programme. There's

:26:20.:26:23.

now about 3,000 in England. But then, they marched even further,

:26:24.:26:26.

creating free schools run by parents, funded by taxpayers. 174

:26:27.:26:33.

have opened so far. The schools admission code was changed, to give

:26:34.:26:36.

parents more choice. And a pupil premium was introduced,

:26:37.:26:39.

currently, an extra ?900 funding for each disadvantaged child.

:26:40.:26:42.

An overhaul of the national curriculum provoked criticism.

:26:43.:26:46.

Chairman Gove mocked detractors as "bad academia". But exam reforms

:26:47.:26:54.

didn't quite go to plan. Although GCSEs got harder, plans to replace

:26:55.:26:58.

A-levels had to be abandoned. Ultimately, the true test of these

:26:59.:27:01.

reforms will be what happens in the classroom. The person in charge of

:27:02.:27:06.

making sure those classrooms are up to scratch in England is the Chief

:27:07.:27:09.

Inspector Of Schools, head of Ofsted, Michael Wilshaw, who joins

:27:10.:27:14.

me now. Over the past 15 years, we have

:27:15.:27:20.

doubled spending on schools even allowing for inflation. By

:27:21.:27:23.

international standards, we are stagnating, why? I said last year

:27:24.:27:29.

that mediocrity had settled into the system. Too many children were

:27:30.:27:39.

coasting in schools, which is why we changed the grading structure, we

:27:40.:27:45.

removed that awful word, satisfactory. Saying that good is

:27:46.:27:49.

now the only acceptable standard and schools had a limited time in which

:27:50.:27:53.

to get to that. We are seeing gradually, it is difficult to say

:27:54.:27:59.

this in the week we have had the OECD report. Things have gradually

:28:00.:28:04.

improved. I will come onto that in a minute. Explain this. International

:28:05.:28:09.

comparisons show us flat-lining or even falling in some subjects,

:28:10.:28:15.

including science. For 20 years, our domestic exam results just got

:28:16.:28:19.

better and better. Was this a piece of fiction fed to us by the

:28:20.:28:24.

educational establishment, was there a cover-up? There is no question

:28:25.:28:30.

there has grade inflation. I speak as an ex-headteacher who saw that in

:28:31.:28:36.

examinations. Perceptual state is actually doing something about that.

:28:37.:28:40.

Most good heads will say that is about time. We have to be credible.

:28:41.:28:50.

Do politicians and educationalists conspire in this grade inflation? It

:28:51.:28:53.

might suit politicians to say things are going up every year. As a head,

:28:54.:28:59.

I knew a lot of the exams youngsters were sitting were not up to scratch.

:29:00.:29:07.

The latest OECD study places us 36th for maths, 23rd reading, slipping

:29:08.:29:13.

down to 21st in science. Yet, Ofsted, your organisation,

:29:14.:29:18.

designates 80% of schools as good or outstanding. That's another fiction.

:29:19.:29:23.

This year, we have. If we see this level of progress, it has been a

:29:24.:29:27.

remarkable progress over the last years since we changed our grading

:29:28.:29:33.

structure, then... In a year, absolutely. We have better teachers

:29:34.:29:38.

coming into our school system. Better leaders. Better schools. The

:29:39.:29:42.

big challenge for our country is making sure that progress is

:29:43.:29:45.

maintained which will eventually translate into better outcomes.

:29:46.:29:52.

These figures are pretty much up-to-date. Are you saying within a

:29:53.:29:58.

year 80% of the schools are good enough? All of the schools we

:29:59.:30:04.

upgraded have had better grades in GCSE and grade 2. We have to make

:30:05.:30:08.

sure that is maintained. The Government has based its reforms on

:30:09.:30:12.

similar reforms in Sweden. In opposition they were endlessly going

:30:13.:30:16.

to Stockholm to find out how it was done. Swedish schools are doing even

:30:17.:30:21.

worse than ours in the tables. Why are we copying failure? The

:30:22.:30:27.

secretary of state believes, and I actually believe, as somebody who

:30:28.:30:31.

has come from an academy model, that if you hand power and resources, you

:30:32.:30:36.

hand autonomy to the people on the ground, to the people in the

:30:37.:30:39.

classroom, in the corridors, in the playgrounds, things work. If you

:30:40.:30:46.

allow the great monoliths that used to have responsibility for education

:30:47.:30:50.

in the past to take control again, you will see a reverse in standards.

:30:51.:30:54.

You have got to actually empower those people that make the

:30:55.:30:57.

difference. That is why autonomy and freedom is important. We spent a lot

:30:58.:31:03.

of money moving what were local authority schools to become

:31:04.:31:06.

academies and new free school czar being set up as well. When the

:31:07.:31:09.

academies are pretty much the same level of autonomy, the free school

:31:10.:31:14.

is maybe a little bit more, the evidence we have had so far is that

:31:15.:31:18.

they don't really perform any better than local authority schools?

:31:19.:31:22.

Indeed, Encore GCSE subjects, they might even be doing worse? These are

:31:23.:31:27.

early days. We will say more about this on weapons they when we produce

:31:28.:31:31.

the annual report. The sponsored academies that took over the worst

:31:32.:31:35.

schools in the country, in the most difficult circumstances, in the most

:31:36.:31:38.

disadvantaged communities, are doing much better now. What about GCSE?

:31:39.:31:45.

They are doing GCSE equivalents, the lass academic subjects question my

:31:46.:31:52.

cull OK, but they are doing better than previous schools. If you look

:31:53.:31:56.

at the top performing nations in the world, they focus on the quality of

:31:57.:32:09.

teaching. The best graduates coming to education. They professionally

:32:10.:32:12.

develop them. They make sure they spot the brightest talents and get

:32:13.:32:16.

them into positions as soon as possible. We have got to do the same

:32:17.:32:19.

if we are going to catch up with those jurisdictions. This isn't just

:32:20.:32:26.

a British problem. It seems to be a European problem. The East Asian

:32:27.:32:30.

countries now dominate the top of the tables. What's the most

:32:31.:32:32.

important lesson we should learn from East Asia? Attitudes to work.

:32:33.:32:37.

We need to make sure that we invest in good teachers, good leaders. We

:32:38.:32:44.

have to make sure that students have the right attitudes to work. It's no

:32:45.:32:48.

good getting good people into the classroom and then seeing them part

:32:49.:32:53.

of teaching by bad behaviour, disaffected youngsters and poor

:32:54.:32:59.

leadership. We see young teachers doing well for a time and then being

:33:00.:33:03.

put off teaching and leaving from that sort of culture in our schools.

:33:04.:33:08.

Are you a cheerleader for government education policy rather than

:33:09.:33:13.

independent inspectors? I am independent, Ofsted is independent.

:33:14.:33:14.

I believe we are Are you enjoying it? It is a tough

:33:15.:36:45.

job. Sometimes I enjoyed it. Your job is more difficult than mine.

:36:46.:36:49.

You're watching the Sunday at Cap politics. -- Sunday Politics.

:36:50.:36:56.

Good morning and welcome to the last Sunday Politics Scotland of 2013.

:36:57.:36:59.

Coming up on the programme: Humility, humanity, humour. Scotland

:37:00.:37:11.

remembers Nelson Mandela. Nelson Mandela left perpetual scores in our

:37:12.:37:15.

Hearts. We will remember him as a man who single-handedly changed the

:37:16.:37:19.

political climate of the whole world. May his soul rest in peace.

:37:20.:37:24.

And it's that time of year. On our last programme of 2013, we reflect

:37:25.:37:28.

on the top stories of 2013. It's been a busy one.

:37:29.:37:34.

This weekend Scotland joined the world in saying goodbye to a man who

:37:35.:37:37.

was the figurehead of a movement for freedom and the father of a nation.

:37:38.:37:42.

Anti-apartheid campaigners here recalled their fear that Nelson

:37:43.:37:45.

Mandela might not live up to the legend they'd created for him during

:37:46.:37:49.

his time in jail. As it turned out, their concerns were unfounded. After

:37:50.:37:52.

his release, and in the years that followed, Nelson Mandela surpassed

:37:53.:37:55.

their expectations. Andrew Kerr has been looking at Scotland's tribute.

:37:56.:38:01.

He was once a strong man, a powerful man, a man who many once feared.

:38:02.:38:06.

Nelson Mandela overcame that impression, bringing black and white

:38:07.:38:11.

together. Glasgow promoted Nelson Mandela's cause, his memento still

:38:12.:38:16.

stands in the city Chambers, everyone from Prime Ministers to

:38:17.:38:20.

Princes have paid tribute. Tell us your reaction to hearing the news

:38:21.:38:23.

about Nelson Mandela. I think, along with so many other countless members

:38:24.:38:31.

of people, I was deeply saddened to hear of his death because he was a

:38:32.:38:35.

truly remarkable man. Ira member meeting him on various occasions --

:38:36.:38:41.

I remember meeting him. He was very special with a wonderful sense of

:38:42.:38:46.

humour. That extraordinary ability for forgiveness and reconciliation.

:38:47.:38:52.

A short distance away, a gathering in the place which defined the

:38:53.:38:56.

apartheid era, South African authorities. Ira member how proud it

:38:57.:39:02.

felt when the city named a street after that. The idea that the

:39:03.:39:06.

embassy would have to encounter his name every time they opened a piece

:39:07.:39:10.

of mail. The man has been an inspiration my whole life and

:39:11.:39:14.

continue to be so. On a cold Glasgow night, people you're willing to pay

:39:15.:39:18.

a worm tribute to a man from thousands of miles away who touched

:39:19.:39:24.

many hat hair. Patricia Monahan says she was a nurse in Johannesburg when

:39:25.:39:27.

she met the man himself in her hospital ward. I said, Mr Mandela,

:39:28.:39:33.

would you come visit this little girl, she is dying to meet you. He

:39:34.:39:37.

said of course. He came and talked to her and she was so delighted. He

:39:38.:39:42.

had all the time in the world for her and then he left. It was such a

:39:43.:39:50.

nice visit, it was so special to meet him. I will never forget his

:39:51.:39:55.

smile. Amazing person. I was involved in the campaign to free

:39:56.:39:57.

Nelson smile. Amazing person. I was

:39:58.:39:58.

involved in the campaign to free Mandela and organised the first leg

:39:59.:40:03.

of the march from Glasgow to London when I was a minister in Coatbridge.

:40:04.:40:10.

So I have had that association for a very long time. And from the rainbow

:40:11.:40:14.

nation, South Africans living in Scotland marks the moment. We had a

:40:15.:40:19.

completely different view of him before 1990. But he was a great man.

:40:20.:40:29.

I got to meet him in 1995 and he was a phenomenal man, the founding

:40:30.:40:31.

father of our current nation. Beautiful country and he was a

:40:32.:40:37.

wonderful person. Doctor Nelson Mandela left the perpetual scars in

:40:38.:40:44.

our Hearts. We will remember him as a man who single-handedly changed

:40:45.:40:48.

people to call climate of the whole world. May his soul rest in peace.

:40:49.:40:55.

Back home, the people switched between celebrations and sadness.

:40:56.:40:59.

They are now preparing for the funeral ceremony one week today.

:41:00.:41:05.

Joining me this morning from Selkirk is the Liberal Democrat peer Lord

:41:06.:41:09.

Steel, who was the President of the British Anti Apartheid movement in

:41:10.:41:12.

the '60s. And in the studio, the Labour MP Jim Murphy, who lived in

:41:13.:41:16.

South Africa under apartheid, and Brian Filling, who was chair of the

:41:17.:41:19.

Scottish Anti-Apartheid Movement for nearly 20 years and is now the

:41:20.:41:22.

Honorary Consul for Scotland for the Republic of South Africa. Thank you

:41:23.:41:25.

for joining us. Brian Filling, a long and eventful life. How would

:41:26.:41:29.

you sum up Nelson Mandela? And people said, he was a wonderful

:41:30.:41:33.

person. Sense of humour. Great political cleverness. To get through

:41:34.:41:40.

what he did and of course he suffered a lot, he made many

:41:41.:41:44.

sacrifices but he retained his humour and his humanity, and has

:41:45.:41:48.

been referred to in terms of his reconciliation and forgiveness. Of

:41:49.:41:53.

course, behind the famous smile there was a man of steel. Given what

:41:54.:41:59.

he had come through, he had to be. I remember when he came to Glasgow,

:42:00.:42:04.

and we had a press conference, with the editors alone, and instead of

:42:05.:42:10.

him making a speech, he said I know what is uppermost in your mind so I

:42:11.:42:13.

will add to your questions before you have asked them. He said, you

:42:14.:42:18.

will want to know about my wife and my political relationships. So he

:42:19.:42:24.

answered those questions and said, can I get onto what I want to tell

:42:25.:42:31.

you? He then of course talked about the force in South Africa that

:42:32.:42:35.

killed 10,000 people between 1980 and 1984, so one a few people say it

:42:36.:42:38.

was a bloodless change, that is not quite true. It was the regime trying

:42:39.:42:46.

to derail the election process. He then became president after his

:42:47.:42:50.

visit to Glasgow. We will talk about his success as president, but Jim

:42:51.:42:54.

Murphy, growing up in South Africa at that time, while he was

:42:55.:42:57.

incarcerated, the prominent was he? He was one of several figureheads at

:42:58.:43:05.

the time. We went to South Africa when I was young and I lived there

:43:06.:43:10.

as a teenager. Nelson Mandela was a band person. You could not talk

:43:11.:43:14.

about him, you could not have a photograph of him, you would never

:43:15.:43:18.

read about him in the newspapers. -- banned person. The reason that was

:43:19.:43:21.

given as to why that country could not have democracy, it was Nelson

:43:22.:43:28.

Mandela. You could not have a democracy because Nelson Mandela

:43:29.:43:31.

could become president. But that became the reason why South Africa

:43:32.:43:36.

got a democracy. It was not painless or bloodless. South Africa has been

:43:37.:43:41.

free of recrimination. I can see Robben Island, where he spent so

:43:42.:43:44.

much time in prison, every morning going to school as a teenager so it

:43:45.:43:48.

was a constant in your mind. It was not a constant in conversation

:43:49.:43:52.

because the way the state apparatus was constructed. Was an idea of the

:43:53.:43:57.

scale of the demonstrations, the protests, in Scotland and the UK

:43:58.:44:03.

during the 1960s and 70s. Why was it so important to people so far away?

:44:04.:44:11.

In London, there was a vigil outside South Africa house, it lasted for

:44:12.:44:16.

years. And in fact, the night when we heard that Nelson had died, a few

:44:17.:44:20.

of us went around it to South Africa house and people were starting to

:44:21.:44:25.

gather on the pavement where we had had those bejewelled and I met one

:44:26.:44:28.

or two beagle who had been on those the ago. So it was a constant

:44:29.:44:35.

struggle. -- one or two people who had been up on those vigils. They

:44:36.:44:42.

were supporting the South African exiles in London at that time. All

:44:43.:44:54.

of these people were in refuge in London and were part of the backbone

:44:55.:44:58.

of the movement. How good his time in prison change him? -- how did his

:44:59.:45:08.

time in prison change him? A lot of them came out of prison changed

:45:09.:45:15.

people. It made them what they are. The man who Nelson regarded as his

:45:16.:45:20.

mentor, all of them were remarkable human beings and I think it was

:45:21.:45:24.

because of, partly because of the struggle but the prison experience,

:45:25.:45:29.

already had to campaign to get newspapers, it took years to get

:45:30.:45:33.

that, to be allowed to read and so on. So they were very, very

:45:34.:45:36.

different people, all of them, not just Nelson. Was there a fear that,

:45:37.:45:43.

on release from prison, Nelson Mandela main outlet up to the

:45:44.:45:45.

expectations that had been built up around him? -- may not live up to

:45:46.:45:53.

the expectations. No. What people think today of is his impact on

:45:54.:45:57.

South Africa, it was so great. He set an example to the rest of the

:45:58.:46:01.

world. We look at some of the trouble spots in the world today,

:46:02.:46:06.

for example Israel and Palestine, is there a Nelson Mandela figure who

:46:07.:46:08.

can help solve the problem? And is no. Or even in his own continent, in

:46:09.:46:16.

Somali, the world is crying out for more Nelson Mandelas. The truth is,

:46:17.:46:21.

there aren't any. What about his time as president? How did he live

:46:22.:46:31.

up to what was expected of him? We often talk about Nelson Mandela the

:46:32.:46:34.

freedom fighter. We often talk about him as the statesman. There was a

:46:35.:46:39.

period of causing between when he was the first Democratic president.

:46:40.:46:45.

That was a country where the problems facing it were so enormous.

:46:46.:46:52.

He got youngsters into education, change the law in employment. He

:46:53.:46:57.

started the work on a dandy HIV. One of the things he did that was a

:46:58.:47:00.

dandy HIV. One of the things he did that was a Marco Lynn terms of

:47:01.:47:06.

politics general -- he started the work on AIDS and HIV. Nelson

:47:07.:47:17.

Mandela, his dilemma -- he managed to maintain reverence and respect

:47:18.:47:22.

into old age. Your viewers will know that we don't usually grant that to

:47:23.:47:25.

someone who has been denied opportunity to live a full life. He

:47:26.:47:33.

had a great sense of humour. Brian, when stood out there in George

:47:34.:47:36.

Square or I go straight or Sauchiehall Street, people would

:47:37.:47:39.

have walked past him in campaign for decades. So people who watch him,

:47:40.:47:44.

what is the point in signing petitions? Things like this prove

:47:45.:47:49.

that there is a point to this sort of community campaigning. How much

:47:50.:47:53.

did news of that reach him when he was incarcerated? After the rally in

:47:54.:48:02.

George Square, thousands came and did not put up umbrellas although it

:48:03.:48:05.

was raining, even bad for Glasgow, going in the car back to the hotel

:48:06.:48:08.

with him when we went through Nelson Mandela Place, I was explaining that

:48:09.:48:13.

South African consulate had been on the fifth floor of the stock

:48:14.:48:15.

exchange building and that was partly why we had chosen it. We had

:48:16.:48:20.

picketed it. And he had heard about it. And the point he made was that

:48:21.:48:27.

the wardens were always saying, you will go out of your feet first. You

:48:28.:48:32.

will not walk out of here. You are forgotten. And they tried to

:48:33.:48:37.

maintain that the world had given them up, that they had been

:48:38.:48:40.

forgotten about, but he said through the grapevine he heard often, and

:48:41.:48:46.

the news was maybe one year after it had happened, he said it lifted our

:48:47.:48:52.

spirits. So he said, I have always had a special place in my heart for

:48:53.:48:55.

Glasgow because was the first city to give freedom to me. And so when

:48:56.:49:01.

he came, he said, here I was, 6000 miles away, in a city that had made

:49:02.:49:05.

me free, whereas in the country I was born, I was still not free. At

:49:06.:49:10.

that point, he did not still have the boat. He had never voted. -- the

:49:11.:49:19.

vote. How do you believe the world will remember Nelson Mandela? One of

:49:20.:49:25.

the interesting things is, we go to Cape Town nowadays, people can take

:49:26.:49:29.

visitors to Robben Island, and you can go into the prison cell where he

:49:30.:49:34.

was held. The interesting thing is, the people who show you around where

:49:35.:49:40.

his fellow prisoners, and there is huge numbers of people who go and

:49:41.:49:45.

pilgrimage to Robben Island. I was lucky that I was one of the

:49:46.:49:48.

observers at the first South African election in 1984 and you cannot

:49:49.:49:53.

imagine the sheer emotion of people who had been totally suppressed

:49:54.:49:55.

having for the first time the right to vote. -- 1994. Under Nelson

:49:56.:50:02.

Mandela, that bitterness was removed from the country and it was a

:50:03.:50:05.

country that moved forward in unity and harmony and peace and that was

:50:06.:50:11.

an astonishing achievement. Thank you for joining us.

:50:12.:50:16.

Coming up after the news, our annual A-Z extravaganza for 2013. First,

:50:17.:50:20.

let's get the latest from Reporting Scotland.

:50:21.:50:28.

Good afternoon. Members of the Labour Party in Falkirk will select

:50:29.:50:31.

their candidate to fight the next general election. The original

:50:32.:50:35.

process was abandoned after allegations of vote-rigging. The

:50:36.:50:44.

seat is held by Eric Joyce, who resigned from Labour after being

:50:45.:50:49.

convicted of assault. A glitch that caused hundreds of

:50:50.:50:52.

flights to be delayed has been sorted, but there's still some

:50:53.:50:55.

disruption for Scottish passengers. Thousands of passengers across the

:50:56.:50:57.

UK faced cancellations and long waits after the phone system at the

:50:58.:51:01.

National Air Traffic Service broke down.

:51:02.:51:03.

A US-inspired scheme which provides support for teenage mothers is to be

:51:04.:51:07.

extended. The Family Nurse Partnership aims to help first-time

:51:08.:51:14.

parents. Frequent visits from nurses. It operates in seven areas

:51:15.:51:18.

and will be rolled out to NHS Forth Valley and Grampian next year.

:51:19.:51:28.

Let's have a look at the weather. A rather dull look to the afternoon

:51:29.:51:32.

with a vibrator rain for many. The rain most persistent and heaviest

:51:33.:51:33.

crossed western parts. Some drier interludes in southern

:51:34.:51:42.

and eastern Scotland. Potentially after 13 Celsius across the North

:51:43.:51:48.

East. A fresh the strong wind. The rain gradually becomes confined to

:51:49.:51:52.

the West tonight but it will be heavy and persistent. Predominantly

:51:53.:51:55.

dry elsewhere, it will be mild and breezy.

:51:56.:51:58.

That's all for now. Our next update is at 6:10pm. I'll now hand you back

:51:59.:52:02.

to Gary. So, we have seen snow this week,

:52:03.:52:07.

Christmas is coming and this is the last of our programmes for 2013, so

:52:08.:52:11.

it is time for our annual A-Z review of the year.

:52:12.:52:32.

Andy Murray is the Wimbledon champion!

:52:33.:53:25.

We did, after all, see that picture with the shocking ain't fat and the

:53:26.:53:33.

shades, but I have exclusively revealed that Alex Salmond is on the

:53:34.:53:39.

same day it as Beyonce. -- same diet.

:53:40.:54:00.

I have been elected to serve in the Scottish Parliament.

:54:01.:55:12.

People formed a human change am a side-by-side with each other, to

:55:13.:55:20.

help pull injured people out. RU OK? Gym, there is blood on your

:55:21.:55:24.

shirt. It is not mine. Scotland's future is now in

:55:25.:56:18.

Scotland's hands. There is nothing new in it, there is nothing

:56:19.:56:22.

published that they could not have told us about yesterday.

:56:23.:57:19.

Never, never and never again shall it be that this beautiful land will

:57:20.:57:32.

again experience the oppression of one by another. The sun shall never

:57:33.:57:40.

set on so glorious a human achievement.

:57:41.:57:52.

Professor Peter Higgs, University of Edinburgh. I asked, what used you

:57:53.:58:08.

Mac she told me her daughter had phoned her from London to alert her

:58:09.:58:17.

to the fact I had won this prize. Super Puma helicopter has crashed

:58:18.:58:18.

into sea off Shetland. Clearly, it is anti-English. They

:58:19.:59:34.

hate the union Jack. We will freeze gas and electricity

:59:35.:00:51.

prices until the start of 2017. Regrettably, that will mean 835 job

:00:52.:01:51.

losses across Filton, the Clyde and Rosyth, and the closure of the

:01:52.:01:53.

company's shipbuilding yard in Portsmouth.

:01:54.:02:17.

Just some of the events that shaped 2013. A special thank you goes to

:02:18.:02:24.

Grace Kirkwood and Stuart Pauley for putting that film together. It is a

:02:25.:02:28.

full house with us today, welcome to best selling author Chris Verbruggen

:02:29.:02:30.

are, broadcaster and journalist Ruth Wishart, GC Derek Ogg and last but

:02:31.:02:35.

not the -- not least, Professor Alan Miller. Let's start with Nelson

:02:36.:02:41.

Mandela, tributes being paid this weekend to him. When you're growing

:02:42.:02:47.

up, Watsi at personal hero? Very much so. The first political

:02:48.:02:52.

activity it a place in at university, Gordon Brown was

:02:53.:02:57.

candidate for student director and he organised a sitting at Edinburgh

:02:58.:03:01.

University's Administration building to disinvest in South Africa. The

:03:02.:03:05.

university had huge shareholdings in South African companies.

:03:06.:03:10.

Anti-apartheid was the very first political action I ever took part

:03:11.:03:14.

in. It had been with us for so many years, it is extraordinary to think

:03:15.:03:18.

now that those ideas of apartheid actually existed in our own

:03:19.:03:22.

lifetimes. People were so dreadfully persecuted in that way. As someone

:03:23.:03:26.

who has worked in the field of human rights, how would you assess his

:03:27.:03:31.

legacy two I think like countless millions around the world, I have

:03:32.:03:34.

been inspired my life by Nelson Mandela. He epitomised the human

:03:35.:03:39.

spirit. He transcended race, class, nationality. He brought out the best

:03:40.:03:45.

in us all. He made us all bigger in ourselves by how he led his life.

:03:46.:03:49.

The legacy is important, we all pay our tributes, but how to protect and

:03:50.:03:53.

nurture the legacy is where we need to look now, and as we debate

:03:54.:03:57.

Scotland's constitutional future, we can learn from South Africa. They

:03:58.:04:02.

have protected them Agassi by enshrining in constitution and

:04:03.:04:05.

universal human rights that Mandela gave his life towards. I think that

:04:06.:04:11.

is secure in our country's busted usual future, no matter what the

:04:12.:04:15.

outcome of the referendum, it is one way of measuring the legacy of

:04:16.:04:21.

Mandela. This has dominated domestic politics for the last year, as it

:04:22.:04:25.

been something of a phoney war up until now? I think it probably was

:04:26.:04:29.

until the white paper came out. You could have written what was said

:04:30.:04:32.

about the White Paper before it was published, I think the war in

:04:33.:04:38.

earnest starts in 2014. There is a nine-month run up, and things will

:04:39.:04:45.

probably turn a little less savoury. My personal plea, I was at a meeting

:04:46.:04:48.

last week of people who are undecided, everyone was encourage to

:04:49.:04:58.

be honest about their feelings, but there was not a politician insight.

:04:59.:05:03.

But a very present evening. Have you heard enough to make up your mind?

:05:04.:05:09.

Suddenly. I was looking at the Mandela package. When I was a

:05:10.:05:13.

student, there was a sense of nothing changing, so it seemed

:05:14.:05:15.

astonishing that a few years later Nelson Mandela was released. Then we

:05:16.:05:22.

had flowed cuckoo land, as Margaret Thatcher described it. The notion

:05:23.:05:26.

that 25 years ago that Scotland would be on the verge of this

:05:27.:05:29.

referendum seems incredible. It seems very exciting. I think we are

:05:30.:05:34.

privileged to have the chance to debate our future this way. This is

:05:35.:05:40.

not me avoiding standing on one side of the fence, I did not need to be

:05:41.:05:43.

convinced by the White Paper. What about you, Derek Ogg two have you

:05:44.:05:49.

made a decision yet you Mac I thought it read more like a

:05:50.:05:53.

manifesto for the SNP. The SNP are quite good governors. They are an

:05:54.:05:58.

honest party and a heart seems to be in the right place. But I was not

:05:59.:06:01.

getting a vision of what an independent Scotland would look like

:06:02.:06:04.

and I am not buying a pig in a poke, so I am not voting for independence

:06:05.:06:10.

this time round. It is not about the small print in a white paper our

:06:11.:06:16.

manifesto from either side. For me, it is a vision and value thing about

:06:17.:06:20.

the kind of Scotland you wish to see in the future and what swayed me was

:06:21.:06:26.

the more mean-spirited things became, in terms of the bedroom tax,

:06:27.:06:30.

the more mean-spirited things became as a result of the Coalition

:06:31.:06:33.

Government policies, the more I wanted to construct something better

:06:34.:06:40.

in Scotland. Looking at the footage of Nigel Farage there, you realise

:06:41.:06:44.

that this was a year in which a huge amount of the British national

:06:45.:06:47.

political agenda has been dictated by this minority figure. And it is

:06:48.:06:54.

concerned that we tend not to fuss about in Scottish politics. So the

:06:55.:06:59.

idea of us being in bed with the elephant has brought into sharp

:07:00.:07:05.

focus by something like that, defer the Conservative Party have of Nigel

:07:06.:07:09.

Farage is the reason we are seeing the go home and text and posters.

:07:10.:07:15.

The chance of independence gives us an opportunity to not have our

:07:16.:07:18.

political agenda dictated in the future. Ruth mentioned that people

:07:19.:07:24.

are not decided. We know that from the opinion polls. What will it take

:07:25.:07:30.

to persuade those people? Respect for them. My sense is that people

:07:31.:07:34.

want to make up their own minds, and they will. He will not be told what

:07:35.:07:39.

to do. They will not be sold anything, they want reliable

:07:40.:07:42.

information. I think they want to know what kind of Scotland is it

:07:43.:07:46.

that is on offer from either side, and that is the sort of discussion.

:07:47.:07:50.

I agree with Ruth, talking to people who are undecided, it is that kind

:07:51.:07:55.

of discussion. The bedroom tax comes up a lot and it links to what we

:07:56.:08:00.

said about Mandela. Do we want some constitutional framework, whether it

:08:01.:08:03.

is devolved or independent, where these fundamental rights to live

:08:04.:08:10.

your life with your family with an adequate standard of living should

:08:11.:08:13.

not be subject to this short-term political pressure and a two-day

:08:14.:08:16.

policies of this party or that Government. It is something much

:08:17.:08:20.

more serious than I think we have been given so far in the debate. I

:08:21.:08:30.

talk about the Catholic Church. Cardinal Keith O'Brien stand the

:08:31.:08:36.

gonad allegations of abuse. This is not exclusive to this year but I

:08:37.:08:43.

wonder whether the reason we keep, the story keeps coming back, is

:08:44.:08:46.

because the Catholic Church does not get to the root of the problem. I

:08:47.:08:51.

thought when the story broke, if I had written this, a story of a very

:08:52.:08:56.

vocal anti-homosexual religious figure who turned out to be a secret

:08:57.:09:02.

self folding homosexual, I would say -- people would say, you have to be

:09:03.:09:07.

more subtle. It is beyond satire. But it is the root of the problem,

:09:08.:09:11.

the Catholic Church is essentially in an ongoing war with human nature

:09:12.:09:13.

when it comes to issues of sexuality. Until those lessons are

:09:14.:09:17.

learned and addressed, this story will keep happening. Is it fair to

:09:18.:09:23.

say that often the victims are the forgotten ones when we talk about

:09:24.:09:27.

some of these abuse cases? Some of the victims this year have felt as

:09:28.:09:30.

though they did not have the support they would want. That is right,

:09:31.:09:34.

certainly in the case with Cardinal Keith O'Brien. For me, the real

:09:35.:09:40.

underlying scandal concerns the child abuse and the fact that not

:09:41.:09:44.

just in Scotland, are not just in England or America or elsewhere,

:09:45.:09:48.

people have not investigated that. People who have known about it have

:09:49.:09:52.

chosen just to ask the offending priest around different parishes in

:09:53.:09:55.

the full knowledge that someone else might become that victim. Until the

:09:56.:10:01.

church claims that up, I think we will always be suspicious but having

:10:02.:10:05.

said that, it is the year we got Pope Francis, who is by far the most

:10:06.:10:09.

compassionate sounding Pope we have seen in a long time. He seems to be

:10:10.:10:13.

softening the Church's view on homosexuality yet we have a Catholic

:10:14.:10:17.

Church in Scotland is against the idea of same-sex marriage. There

:10:18.:10:22.

seems to be a contradiction there. I will not hold my breath waiting for

:10:23.:10:25.

the Catholic Church to support me and my partner in everyday

:10:26.:10:30.

relationship. We need to separate two things, adult gay relationships,

:10:31.:10:33.

and the Catholic Church's attitude to it, and the abuse of children,

:10:34.:10:38.

which is not just the Catholic Church but other institutions that

:10:39.:10:41.

looked after children, or are supposed to, get involved in. One

:10:42.:10:46.

thing Nelson Mandela's legacy is, one way to approach conflict like

:10:47.:10:52.

that and victimhood like that is reconciliation and truth. The

:10:53.:10:55.

Catholic Church has a lot of truth it has to confront and a lot of

:10:56.:11:00.

reconciling to do and that is the way to clear those particular

:11:01.:11:04.

stables out. The same-sex marriage thing, it goes to show, one thing

:11:05.:11:08.

about this year is, we can look and see how much change happens in our

:11:09.:11:11.

lifetime, looking at Thatcher and Mandela having died, but 30 odd

:11:12.:11:17.

years ago I lived in a country where it was illegal for anyone of any age

:11:18.:11:21.

to have homosexual sex in any circumstances. Now we are cocking

:11:22.:11:27.

about same-sex marriage, civil partnership. -- now we are talking

:11:28.:11:35.

about. You only have to look to Russia to see what happens if you

:11:36.:11:37.

are not vigilant about rights. That is why Alan has got his work cut out

:11:38.:11:44.

for him. There has been a lot of negativity about historic child

:11:45.:11:47.

abuse this year. A piece of work has been taking place in Scotland which

:11:48.:11:51.

I think next year will yield significant progress and access to

:11:52.:11:54.

justice for victims of historic abuse. It borrows a lot from the

:11:55.:11:58.

Mandela legacy because the commission has brought around the

:11:59.:12:01.

table, for the first time in Scotland, the victims. Sitting next

:12:02.:12:05.

to none is and other representatives. -- sitting next to

:12:06.:12:11.

nuns that are supposed to have perpetrated abuse. This is what

:12:12.:12:16.

Mandela stood for, it has been quite transformative in understanding the

:12:17.:12:21.

situation of each, what they require, how they can move on in

:12:22.:12:25.

life and agree on what steps have to be taken. I am hoping that in 2014,

:12:26.:12:31.

those steps, which have been identified in this round table

:12:32.:12:34.

throughout 2013, will finally see some justice for the victims of

:12:35.:12:38.

historic child abuse. Let's talk about Andy Murray. I am sure you're

:12:39.:12:43.

jumping up and down with joy. He first came across my radar when he

:12:44.:12:48.

won the junior US Open and since then I have watched every match. I

:12:49.:12:56.

played every shot with him. It is such a life enhancing thing. I am a

:12:57.:13:00.

big sports fan, I spent a lot of time at Hampden and Murrayfield, and

:13:01.:13:04.

that is a particular form of masochism. But then you get Andy

:13:05.:13:09.

Murray, who is just brilliant. I love his sense of humour. I love the

:13:10.:13:13.

way he plays. I love that very Scottish sense of humour that a lot

:13:14.:13:18.

of folk do not understand. He is a complete star and I hope he wins in

:13:19.:13:23.

other couple next year. It has taken a lot of people a long time to

:13:24.:13:26.

understand and the's sense of humour. It has not taken Scottish

:13:27.:13:32.

people a long time. I did not get to see the final because I was in Italy

:13:33.:13:35.

and I was going through all the channel trying to find it, and I was

:13:36.:13:40.

not able to find it. It occurred to me, I said to my wife, can you name

:13:41.:13:47.

an Italian tennis player? I was following it by BBC text updates. He

:13:48.:13:52.

gets to the final stages and it disappeared from the telephone. That

:13:53.:13:57.

is when I realised it was no longer ongoing, it was over. That is all we

:13:58.:14:03.

have got time for. No time to talk about the pandas, but maybe next

:14:04.:14:07.

year. That is all from us from this week and this one. We are back again

:14:08.:14:11.

in the New Year. If you are missing your political fix, you can watch

:14:12.:14:15.

The Politics Show on Wednesday.

:14:16.:14:21.

Political magazine presented by Andrew Neil and Andrew Kerr.


Download Subtitles

SRT

ASS