Browse content similar to 11/05/2014. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Morning folks. Welcome to the Sunday Politics, where we're talking about | :00:36. | :00:40. | |
the Europe-wide contest that really matters. No not Eurovision. The | :00:41. | :00:47. | |
European elections. There are local elections across England too on May | :00:48. | :00:50. | |
22nd. The party leaders are campaigning ahead of polling day. | :00:51. | :00:54. | |
The results could be a pointer to the Big One May 2015. We'll be | :00:55. | :01:00. | |
speaking to the man in charge of Labour's election battle plan. Has | :01:01. | :01:04. | |
the opposition really got its sights set on all-out victory in 2015? Or | :01:05. | :01:09. | |
will it just be content with squeaking home? And you can't | :01:10. | :01:12. | |
mention elections these days without talking about the impact of this | :01:13. | :01:17. | |
man, Nigel Farage. I'll be asking him if UKIP really is fit for | :01:18. | :01:22. | |
primetime. Coming up on Sunday Politics | :01:23. | :01:24. | |
Scotland: As Westminster and Holyrood do battle over Scottish | :01:25. | :01:27. | |
independence are Civil servants - who have long prided themselves on | :01:28. | :01:30. | |
their neutrality - being drawn into the fray? | :01:31. | :01:40. | |
guaranteed to bring a touch of Eurovision glamour to your Sunday | :01:41. | :01:45. | |
morning. With views more controversial than a bearded | :01:46. | :01:47. | |
Austrian drag act and twice the dress sense, it's Nick Watt, Helen | :01:48. | :01:57. | |
Lewis and Janan Ganesh. So you might have thought you've already heard | :01:58. | :02:00. | |
David Cameron promise an in-out referendum on EU membership in 2017 | :02:01. | :02:04. | |
if he's still Prime Minister. Many times. Many, many times. Well he | :02:05. | :02:09. | |
obviously doesn't think you've been listening, because he's been saying | :02:10. | :02:12. | |
it again today. Here he is speaking to the BBC earlier. We will hold a | :02:13. | :02:17. | |
referendum by the end of 2017. It will be a referendum on an in-out | :02:18. | :02:21. | |
basis. Do we stay in a reformed European Union or do we leave? And | :02:22. | :02:25. | |
I've said very clearly that whatever the outcome of the next election, | :02:26. | :02:28. | |
and of course I want an overall majority and I'm hoping and | :02:29. | :02:30. | |
believing I can win an overall majority, that people should be in | :02:31. | :02:34. | |
no doubt I will not become Prime Minister unless I can guarantee that | :02:35. | :02:43. | |
we will hold a referendum. Here's saying there that an overall | :02:44. | :02:48. | |
majority there will definitely be a referendum. If these are the | :02:49. | :02:52. | |
minority position, he won't form a new coalition unless they agree to a | :02:53. | :02:57. | |
referendum, too. The Lib Dems a pulmonary agree to that. They | :02:58. | :03:00. | |
probably will because the Prime ministers have a strong argument | :03:01. | :03:04. | |
which is I gave you a referendum back in 2010 so the least I need is | :03:05. | :03:07. | |
theirs and the Lib Dems are the only party who have stood in recent | :03:08. | :03:12. | |
elections on a clear mandate to hold a referendum, so it is difficult for | :03:13. | :03:15. | |
them to say no, there was interesting the interview he did | :03:16. | :03:19. | |
earlier today. He named everything was going to ask for. The most | :03:20. | :03:23. | |
controversial with him, as he said in his speech last year, he wants to | :03:24. | :03:28. | |
take Britain out of the commitment to make the European Union and ever | :03:29. | :03:33. | |
closer union. That is a very big ask, but the point is, he may well | :03:34. | :03:37. | |
get it because the choice for the European Union now, France and | :03:38. | :03:41. | |
Germany, is a clear wonderful do Britain in or out? Previously, it | :03:42. | :03:46. | |
was can you put up with a British prime ministers being annoying? I | :03:47. | :03:50. | |
think you'll find the answer is they are willing to pay a price but not | :03:51. | :03:55. | |
any price to keep Britain in. In this scenario, Labour would have | :03:56. | :03:58. | |
lost the election again because we are talking the slowly happen if Mr | :03:59. | :04:04. | |
Cameron is the largest party or has an overall majority. Could you then | :04:05. | :04:08. | |
see Labour deciding we had better go along with a referendum, too? I | :04:09. | :04:13. | |
think that's unlikely because as I think that's unlikely because | :04:14. | :04:15. | |
there's a huge upside for that for I think what's interesting is the idea | :04:16. | :04:17. | |
he would for minority government. Would you get confidence and look at | :04:18. | :04:22. | |
other options that might well happen with the way the arithmetic is going | :04:23. | :04:26. | |
or is he going to hold out and say the only way I will be Prime | :04:27. | :04:29. | |
Minister is in a majority Conservative government? No, the | :04:30. | :04:34. | |
implication of his remarks was I wouldn't form a coalition government | :04:35. | :04:38. | |
unless my coalition partners would also agree to vote for a referendum. | :04:39. | :04:42. | |
He's basically talking about is negotiating strategy in those | :04:43. | :04:47. | |
coalition talks. It's a red line and a huge opportunity for the Lib Dems, | :04:48. | :04:51. | |
because they know David Cameron absolutely has to do, for accidental | :04:52. | :04:56. | |
reasons, as a person who survives as Tory leader, to ask for that | :04:57. | :05:00. | |
referendum, so they can ask anything they want in return and if I was | :05:01. | :05:04. | |
Nick Clegg, I would work out in the next year one absolute colossal | :05:05. | :05:07. | |
negotiating demand for those coalition talks. For a party around | :05:08. | :05:14. | |
10% in the polls, they will do have the Prime Minister over a barrel on | :05:15. | :05:17. | |
this one, assuming that coalition talks goes well. They could make | :05:18. | :05:29. | |
Michael Gove Tbyte meeting. OK, we need to move on. So, the politicians | :05:30. | :05:32. | |
are out and about on what used to be called the stump ahead of local and | :05:33. | :05:36. | |
European elections in less than two weeks' time. But, without wanting to | :05:37. | :05:39. | |
depress you on a damp Sunday morning, the party strategists are | :05:40. | :05:41. | |
already hard at work on their campaign plans for the General | :05:42. | :05:44. | |
Election next May. Yes, it's less than a year to go. They may have | :05:45. | :05:47. | |
taken their time, but Labour's battleplan for 2015 is starting to | :05:48. | :05:50. | |
take shape. As well as take promising to freeze your energy | :05:51. | :05:53. | |
bills, and reintroduce the 50p rate of tax, Ed Miliband now says he | :05:54. | :05:56. | |
wants to intervene in the housing market to keep rents down. There's | :05:57. | :06:01. | |
even talk that the party leadership wants to bring more railway lines | :06:02. | :06:07. | |
into public ownership. And Labour is gambling that its big push on the | :06:08. | :06:11. | |
cost of living will see it through to the general election despite | :06:12. | :06:14. | |
evidence that growth is firmly back. Labour's campaign chief Douglas | :06:15. | :06:17. | |
Alexander hopes it all adds up to victory next May. But so far, the | :06:18. | :06:25. | |
evidence is hitting home very thin. One survey today shows that 56% of | :06:26. | :06:28. | |
people don't think Mr Miliband is up to the job of Prime Minister. As we | :06:29. | :06:33. | |
head towards one of the least predictable general elections in 70 | :06:34. | :06:36. | |
years, has Labour got a message to win seats up and down the country? | :06:37. | :06:41. | |
And Labour's election co-ordinator and Shadow Foreign Secretary, | :06:42. | :06:48. | |
Douglas Alexander, joins me now. Welcome to Sunday Politics. A lot of | :06:49. | :06:52. | |
these policies announced polar pretty well. By popular with the | :06:53. | :06:56. | |
country. When you add them together, it's a move to the left and what | :06:57. | :07:02. | |
would be wrong with that? I think is your packet suggests, the contours | :07:03. | :07:04. | |
in the coming campaign are becoming clear. Our judgement is the defining | :07:05. | :07:10. | |
issue of the year in British politics will be the widening gap | :07:11. | :07:13. | |
between the wealth of the country and the finances of ordinary | :07:14. | :07:17. | |
families. We believe it will be a cost of living election and we have | :07:18. | :07:20. | |
been setting out our thinking in relation to energy prices and rent, | :07:21. | :07:24. | |
but you will hear more from Labour Party in the coming months because | :07:25. | :07:27. | |
we're now less than one year away from a decisive moment. If the | :07:28. | :07:32. | |
leftish think tank suggested any of his policies in that Tony Blair | :07:33. | :07:36. | |
years, you would have opposed them. Let's be clear, when not going for | :07:37. | :07:43. | |
an interest but seeking to secure a majority for the only way to do that | :07:44. | :07:46. | |
is not simply to appeal to your base, but to the centre ground. I | :07:47. | :07:49. | |
believe we got genuine opportunities in the next year. You have the | :07:50. | :07:54. | |
Conservatives in a struggle with UKIP on the right of politics. The | :07:55. | :07:59. | |
Lib Dems 9% of trying to find their base, and there's a genuine | :08:00. | :08:02. | |
opportunity in the next year for Labour to dominate the centre ground | :08:03. | :08:07. | |
of politics and secure the majority Labour government we are planning | :08:08. | :08:11. | |
for in the coming year. I notice you didn't deny you wouldn't have | :08:12. | :08:22. | |
opposed. You say you have got an message for aspirational voters in | :08:23. | :08:25. | |
the South. This is what John Denham said. He thinks you're talking too | :08:26. | :08:28. | |
much to your core vote. He is right to recognise we took a | :08:29. | :08:45. | |
terrible beating in 2010. 29%. If you look at what we've done in the | :08:46. | :08:48. | |
last week, for example, the signature policy on rent Ed Miliband | :08:49. | :08:53. | |
announced to launch the campaign, there's now more than 9 million | :08:54. | :08:57. | |
people in the country in the private rented sector, more than 1 million | :08:58. | :09:01. | |
families. Many of them are in the south-east. They are seeing | :09:02. | :09:04. | |
circumstances where, suddenly, landlord will increase the rent and | :09:05. | :09:09. | |
they put the pressure involved in schooling, health care facing the | :09:10. | :09:13. | |
families, so it is important both in terms of policy and in terms of | :09:14. | :09:16. | |
politics that we speak to the whole country, not simply to one part of | :09:17. | :09:20. | |
it falls up what is the average rise in event last year? I don't know. | :09:21. | :09:28. | |
Can you tell me? 1%. 1% not in real terms. I'm not sure what the problem | :09:29. | :09:35. | |
is. It will happen to wages in last year, we are facing circumstances | :09:36. | :09:39. | |
where people will be worse off, up to ?1600 off worse and frankly, if | :09:40. | :09:46. | |
our opponents want to argue that the economy has healed and they deserve | :09:47. | :09:51. | |
a victory lap, good luck to them because actually, what we are | :09:52. | :09:55. | |
hearing from the Buddhist public, not just in the north and south, is | :09:56. | :09:59. | |
not the cost living crisis is continuing and it affects families. | :10:00. | :10:02. | |
There was nothing aspirational about your party election broadcast for | :10:03. | :10:07. | |
the European elections. It looked like crude class war to money | :10:08. | :10:11. | |
people. That's a bit of it. Bedroom tax. Isn't it going to look bad that | :10:12. | :10:15. | |
two thirds of those affected are disabled? Who cares? They can't | :10:16. | :10:21. | |
fight back. Shall be lay-offs and NHS nurses? The National Health | :10:22. | :10:29. | |
Service? Oh yes. Mr Cameron? Who said that? Me. My gosh. The man has | :10:30. | :10:39. | |
shrunk. He's actually shrunk. What shall we do with him? Can we hunt | :10:40. | :10:44. | |
him? Nothing about Europe, Labour policy. News that the Tories would | :10:45. | :10:51. | |
result in negative campaigning and smear. You didn't tell you would be | :10:52. | :10:56. | |
just as bad. Let's start the party broadcast. The one thing guaranteed | :10:57. | :11:00. | |
to have most people reaching for the remote control these days are the | :11:01. | :11:06. | |
words, there now follows a party but the broadcast. I make no apology in | :11:07. | :11:10. | |
the factory to be innovative in how we presented. It's factual. It was a | :11:11. | :11:15. | |
policy -based critic of this government. And the Lib Dems role | :11:16. | :11:19. | |
within it. So you're claiming it's factual to betray the camera and | :11:20. | :11:24. | |
cabinet is not even knowing what the NHS is, -- the Cameron Cabinet. They | :11:25. | :11:31. | |
attack the disabled because they can't fight back. The Pinellas | :11:32. | :11:36. | |
Tanner severely Prime Minister Sun and he was treated during a short | :11:37. | :11:43. | |
life by the NHS. It's a fact many disabled people across the country | :11:44. | :11:47. | |
including in my constituency have been directly affected by the | :11:48. | :11:51. | |
bedroom tax. And ultimately, this Conservative led government, | :11:52. | :11:54. | |
including the Lib Dems, will be held accountable by the politicians. You | :11:55. | :12:00. | |
say that, the Prime Minister, who had a severely disabled son of. I | :12:01. | :12:04. | |
you not ashamed about? I shadowed Iain Duncan Smith of five months | :12:05. | :12:10. | |
also they don't have the excuses of seeing that saying nobody told them | :12:11. | :12:14. | |
the consequences of the bedroom tax. They went into this with their eyes | :12:15. | :12:17. | |
open. They knew about the hardship and difficulty. If they were | :12:18. | :12:21. | |
one-bedroom properties available across the country for people to | :12:22. | :12:24. | |
move into, their argument would be OK but they knew they were dealing | :12:25. | :12:31. | |
with the most vulnerable people. Did you sign off that part of the | :12:32. | :12:34. | |
broadcast? Of course I stand by the fact of it. I wish David Cameron and | :12:35. | :12:40. | |
Iain Duncan Smith would apologise to the disabled people of the country | :12:41. | :12:43. | |
and the poorest people for the effects of the bedroom tax. I hope | :12:44. | :12:47. | |
we get that apology between now and election. As someone who thinks | :12:48. | :12:53. | |
integrity is important in politics, not ashamed of this kind of thing? | :12:54. | :12:59. | |
It's important we scrutinise the policies of this government as well | :13:00. | :13:01. | |
as adding a positive agenda for change. You want that you won't | :13:02. | :13:08. | |
promise this is the last time we'll see such a negative press campaign? | :13:09. | :13:13. | |
I don't think it is negative or personal to scrutinise the | :13:14. | :13:16. | |
government. So we'll get more of this? I'm less interested in the | :13:17. | :13:20. | |
background of the cabinet than their views. You call the upper-class | :13:21. | :13:26. | |
twits. It's for the British public to make a judgement in terms of the | :13:27. | :13:30. | |
British... That's how you depicted them. We are held in accountable for | :13:31. | :13:37. | |
the bedroom tax, the NHS, taxation, and our record they have to defend. | :13:38. | :13:42. | |
One reason are so fearful in this election is actually because they | :13:43. | :13:46. | |
know they have a poor record. Let's look at other part of the election | :13:47. | :13:51. | |
campaign. This poster. Particularly digitally doing the rounds. On that | :13:52. | :13:56. | |
shopping basket, can you tell us which items take the full 20% VAT? | :13:57. | :14:03. | |
It's representative of household shopping, which includes items like | :14:04. | :14:07. | |
cleaning products, and we know that food is not that trouble. People | :14:08. | :14:19. | |
don't go to the supermarket and say this is -- vatable. So you are | :14:20. | :14:26. | |
denying that ?450 extra is being paid? Yes, where'd you get that | :14:27. | :14:34. | |
figure? For an average family to pay ?450 a year extra VAT, they would | :14:35. | :14:42. | |
have to spend ?21,600 a year on vatable products at 20%. The average | :14:43. | :14:48. | |
take-home pay is only 21,009. They have got to spend on all sorts of | :14:49. | :14:52. | |
things which are zero VAT. So in addition to the items, has a range | :14:53. | :14:56. | |
of products people face in terms of VAT. How could an average family of | :14:57. | :15:02. | |
?21,000 a year spent 21,006 and the pound a year on 20% vatable items? | :15:03. | :15:11. | |
It's not an annual figure, is it? So what is it then? If it's an annual, | :15:12. | :15:20. | |
what is it? The increased VAT in this parliament is calculated over | :15:21. | :15:23. | |
the course of a Parliament. For the whole of the Parliament? And you're | :15:24. | :15:31. | |
illustrated this with a shopping basket which almost has no VAT on it | :15:32. | :15:36. | |
at all? People will be buying a weekly shop in the course of this | :15:37. | :15:40. | |
Parliament every week. Did you sign off on this as well? Of course. It | :15:41. | :15:45. | |
didn't dawn on you you're putting things on it which have no VAT? If | :15:46. | :15:49. | |
you want to argue some people go to the shops and say these are vatable | :15:50. | :15:52. | |
or not, I disagree. Even your rent or not, I disagree. Even your rent | :15:53. | :16:01. | |
cap announcement went wrong. You're working on the rent rises and it | :16:02. | :16:04. | |
turns out it wasn't. It was a post your policy. It is the exception | :16:05. | :16:12. | |
rather than the rule to have the your policy. It is the exception | :16:13. | :16:16. | |
position we have at the moment. In Northern Ireland we have seen the | :16:17. | :16:20. | |
continued rise in terms of the rented sector but there is a | :16:21. | :16:23. | |
widespread recognition that for those people in the rented sector, | :16:24. | :16:31. | |
change is necessary. Are you coordinating this campaign? It seems | :16:32. | :16:38. | |
accident prone. This is a party that has set the agenda more effectively | :16:39. | :16:47. | |
than a Conservative party that said when David Cameron was elected he | :16:48. | :16:50. | |
wasn't going to bang on about Europe. The day after the election | :16:51. | :16:59. | |
we expect the Conservative party to be engulfed in crisis. I'm proud of | :17:00. | :17:05. | |
what we talk about and I think there is a clear contrast about a party | :17:06. | :17:09. | |
talking about issues people care about, and a Conservative party | :17:10. | :17:14. | |
talking about exclusively a referendum. Are you in charge of the | :17:15. | :17:21. | |
campaign? I am coordinating the campaign is, yes. The expensive | :17:22. | :17:27. | |
election guru you have hired, has he been involved in any of this? We | :17:28. | :17:32. | |
have started our discussions with him. You are going to have to brief | :17:33. | :17:36. | |
him about British politics because he doesn't know anything about it. I | :17:37. | :17:44. | |
make no apology for hiring him. He has a lot of experience in winning | :17:45. | :17:49. | |
tight elections and that is what we are expecting. If you are expecting | :17:50. | :17:55. | |
us to say, they have passed and we have to hold them accountable, then | :17:56. | :18:02. | |
I am sorry but we have a campaign that holds the Government and the | :18:03. | :18:06. | |
Conservatives to account for what I think is a very hopeless record in | :18:07. | :18:17. | |
government. Thank you. He leads a party with zero MPs but | :18:18. | :18:20. | |
his media presence is huge. He's had an expenses scandal, but the public | :18:21. | :18:23. | |
didn't seem to mind. He's got a privileged background but he's seen | :18:24. | :18:26. | |
as an anti-establishment champion. Nothing seems to stick to him, not | :18:27. | :18:29. | |
even eggs. I speak of course of Nigel Farage. We'll talk to him in a | :18:30. | :18:33. | |
moment, but first Giles has been out on the campaign trail ahead of | :18:34. | :18:36. | |
elections that could make or break the UKIP leader. | :18:37. | :18:38. | |
Nigel Farage likes a stage, and at this stage of the Euro and local | :18:39. | :18:41. | |
election campaign he is, like his party, in buoyant mood. They feel | :18:42. | :18:46. | |
they are on the verge of what they see as causing an earthquake in | :18:47. | :18:52. | |
British politics. Today Nigel is filling thousands seat venues and | :18:53. | :18:56. | |
bigger. Not that there's much sign of that at this press launch. But | :18:57. | :19:04. | |
it's a threat with serious money behind it, that they believe the | :19:05. | :19:07. | |
media and the political elite just haven't realised yet, much less | :19:08. | :19:10. | |
learned how to counter it. Not that it's all been plain sailing. | :19:11. | :19:12. | |
Offensive comments from some candidates has not only seen UKIP | :19:13. | :19:15. | |
labelled as racist, but necessitated a rally by the party to visibly and | :19:16. | :19:22. | |
verbally challenge that. The offensive idiotic statements made by | :19:23. | :19:25. | |
this handful of people have been lifted up and presented to the great | :19:26. | :19:29. | |
British public as if they represent the view of this party, which they | :19:30. | :19:35. | |
do not. They never have and they never will. APPLAUSE | :19:36. | :19:46. | |
I don't care what you call us, but from this moment on, please do not | :19:47. | :19:55. | |
call must trust a racist party. We are not a racist party. | :19:56. | :20:04. | |
The need to say that is not just about the European and local | :20:05. | :20:06. | |
elections even at that campaign launch it's clear UKIP's leader has | :20:07. | :20:09. | |
set his sights firmly on the ultimate prize. I come from the | :20:10. | :20:12. | |
south of England and I would not want to be seen as an opportunist | :20:13. | :20:16. | |
heading to the north, north Norfolk or whatever it will be. I will make | :20:17. | :20:20. | |
my mind up and stand in the general election for somewhere in Kent, East | :20:21. | :20:26. | |
Sussex, Hampshire, somewhere in my home patch. Back at UKIP HQ they are | :20:27. | :20:30. | |
still drilling down how the last fortnight of campaigning should go. | :20:31. | :20:40. | |
They aren't taking any chances, and one imagines having offices above | :20:41. | :20:43. | |
those of Max Clifford is a reminder how fragile built reputations can be | :20:44. | :20:46. | |
of the bubble bursting. They want their reputation to be built on | :20:47. | :20:49. | |
votes and they know anything but significant success on May 22nd and | :20:50. | :20:52. | |
some seats in Westminster in 2015 isn't going to be good enough. And | :20:53. | :21:00. | |
after that, having sold yourselves as the honest outsiders, that stance | :21:01. | :21:03. | |
is harder to maintain once your people are on the inside. And subtle | :21:04. | :21:06. | |
changes from the past are already noticeable. The ordinary man of the | :21:07. | :21:12. | |
people stance is still working. Characteristically outside a pub, | :21:13. | :21:15. | |
Nigel Farage is glad handed by a customer. Two weeks to go, let's | :21:16. | :21:21. | |
cause an upset. Wouldn't that be great? The only sign that such an | :21:22. | :21:27. | |
interaction is different now is the ever presence of bodyguards who | :21:28. | :21:38. | |
shadow his every move. Over lunch ahead of Question Time, a radio | :21:39. | :21:41. | |
appearance, and then off to Scotland, I ask him if some of those | :21:42. | :21:46. | |
minded to vote UKIP who see him as a man they'd be comfortable having a | :21:47. | :21:49. | |
drink with are the sort of people he'd be entirely comfortable sitting | :21:50. | :21:51. | |
down with. Every political party attracts support from across the | :21:52. | :21:53. | |
spectrum and there will be some magnificent people who vote for us | :21:54. | :22:02. | |
and some ne'er-do-wells. The one common thing about UKIP voters is | :22:03. | :22:07. | |
that they are often not very political. And it's that people's | :22:08. | :22:11. | |
army that if UKIP can get to a polling booth might just create that | :22:12. | :22:13. | |
earthquake they want. Nigel Farage joins me now. When you | :22:14. | :22:21. | |
decided not to stand at the new work by election coming said if you lost | :22:22. | :22:24. | |
it that the bubble would have burst. What did you mean by that? I | :22:25. | :22:44. | |
was asked at seven 20p -- at 7:21pm if I would stand, I have decided by | :22:45. | :22:50. | |
the next morning that I would not. I didn't know he was going to resign. | :22:51. | :22:57. | |
You claim only a handful of UKIP candidates have ever said things | :22:58. | :23:00. | |
that are either stupid or offensive, I'm right on that, yes? 0.1%, I'd | :23:01. | :23:09. | |
rather it was non-. But why have you chosen a candidate to fight this | :23:10. | :23:12. | |
by-election that has said many things most people would regard as | :23:13. | :23:19. | |
stupid or offensive? Roger is fighting this for us, someone of 70 | :23:20. | :23:24. | |
years of age who grew up with a strong Christian Bible background, | :23:25. | :23:29. | |
in an age when homosexuality was imprisonable. He had a certain set | :23:30. | :23:33. | |
of views which he maintained for many years which he now says he | :23:34. | :23:37. | |
accepts the world has moved on and he is relaxed about it. The comments | :23:38. | :23:43. | |
about homosexuality are not from the dark ages, they are from two or | :23:44. | :23:50. | |
three years ago. From when he was a Conservative, yes, so will you be | :23:51. | :23:56. | |
asking David Cameron that question? I have never seen a single comment | :23:57. | :24:00. | |
from Roger that would be deemed to be offensive. Do you regard his | :24:01. | :24:06. | |
comments on homosexuality as offensive? When he grew up, | :24:07. | :24:11. | |
homosexuality was illegal in this country. But this was in 2012 but he | :24:12. | :24:21. | |
said that. Most people have his age still feel uncomfortable about it -- | :24:22. | :24:30. | |
of his age. In 2012 he said, if two men can be married, why not three, | :24:31. | :24:38. | |
why not a commune. Many people in this country are disconcerted by the | :24:39. | :24:42. | |
change in the meaning of marriage and in a tolerant society we | :24:43. | :24:46. | |
understand that some people have different views. But he has changed | :24:47. | :24:52. | |
his views now in only two years? He says he is more relaxed about it. | :24:53. | :25:02. | |
Was he your candidate? He is a first-class campaigner who has had | :25:03. | :25:06. | |
30 years in industry, he served in the European Parliament, he is a | :25:07. | :25:11. | |
good candidate. This morning's papers suggest you are about to | :25:12. | :25:15. | |
select Victoria Ayling for Grimsby, but she is on camera saying that, of | :25:16. | :25:21. | |
immigrants, I just want to send a lot back. This is all very | :25:22. | :25:25. | |
interesting, and we can talk about it, all we could talk about the fact | :25:26. | :25:29. | |
that in 12 days we have a European election and every voter across the | :25:30. | :25:34. | |
UK can vote on it and it is really interesting. Are you happy to pick a | :25:35. | :25:41. | |
candidate that says of immigrants, I just want to send a lot back? I have | :25:42. | :25:48. | |
seen the tape, it is a complete misquote and she says it in the | :25:49. | :25:55. | |
context of illegal immigrants. I have seen the full quote and in the | :25:56. | :26:01. | |
context it is not about illegal immigrants. Let's come onto the | :26:02. | :26:06. | |
European campaign, you have used a company that employs Eastern | :26:07. | :26:10. | |
European is to deliver leaflets in London and the Home Counties. Have | :26:11. | :26:14. | |
we? I'm told that in Croydon one branch might have done that. Have | :26:15. | :26:20. | |
you found some indigenous Brits to deliver leaflets in Europe? We have | :26:21. | :26:25. | |
thousands joining the party every month and they are not all | :26:26. | :26:30. | |
indigenous because what is interesting is that in today's | :26:31. | :26:35. | |
opinion polls, UKIP is above the Lib Dems and the Conservatives amongst | :26:36. | :26:47. | |
the indigenous voting. We have not agreed a manifesto for | :26:48. | :27:01. | |
the general election, we will do over the course of the summer. This | :27:02. | :27:09. | |
is in your local election. We are having local elections in some part | :27:10. | :27:13. | |
of the country but we are fighting a European election. It is impossible | :27:14. | :27:17. | |
with the British media to have an intelligent debate on the European | :27:18. | :27:23. | |
question. But as I say, we are also fighting the local elections too. | :27:24. | :27:28. | |
You have promised these tax cuts, how much will they cost? I have met | :27:29. | :27:34. | |
-- read the local election manifesto and it doesn't make those promises. | :27:35. | :27:39. | |
We do talk about local services, we do talk about the need to keep | :27:40. | :27:43. | |
council tax down but we don't talk about income tax. Absolutely not. In | :27:44. | :27:51. | |
local election campaigning you say you would restore cuts to policing, | :27:52. | :27:57. | |
double prison places, restore cuts to front line NHS, spend more on | :27:58. | :28:05. | |
roads, how much would that cost? You are obviously reading different | :28:06. | :28:09. | |
documents to me. We are voting for local councillors in district | :28:10. | :28:13. | |
councils who have got little local budgets. Every party in a manifesto | :28:14. | :28:20. | |
puts his aspirations in it. Have you read it? Of course I have, cover to | :28:21. | :28:26. | |
cover, which is why I'm saying you are misquoting it. By the way, on | :28:27. | :28:32. | |
the bubble bursting, you told that to Norman Smith of the BBC. 75% of | :28:33. | :28:39. | |
British laws are now made in the European Union. Now AstraZeneca is | :28:40. | :28:44. | |
potentially going to be taken over by Pfizer. The BBC is refusing to | :28:45. | :28:50. | |
show the public that that decision cannot be taken here but by an | :28:51. | :28:54. | |
elected European commissioner, and we sit and argue about what is in or | :28:55. | :29:01. | |
not in the local election manifesto. It is my job, but let me come on to | :29:02. | :29:12. | |
AstraZeneca. Is it your view that a British government should stop the | :29:13. | :29:19. | |
takeover of AstraZeneca? It cannot. Can we please get this clear. I sat | :29:20. | :29:28. | |
next to Chuka Umunna the other day at question time and he said what | :29:29. | :29:33. | |
could and couldn't be done. He said I am being studiously neutral, and | :29:34. | :29:37. | |
the reason is we don't have this power. That is what the European | :29:38. | :29:44. | |
elections is about. Should France have the takeover of the food | :29:45. | :29:56. | |
company Danan? We seem to do things to the Nth degree and nobody else | :29:57. | :30:05. | |
does, perhaps because we have this culture and we obey it. In your | :30:06. | :30:09. | |
view, you don't think Pfizer should be able to take over AstraZeneca? | :30:10. | :30:18. | |
There is some good science within AstraZeneca which is in | :30:19. | :30:30. | |
A lot of it is in Sweden and I know that, but there is still a lot of | :30:31. | :30:37. | |
good science being done there. What did you think of the Prime Minister | :30:38. | :30:44. | |
saying he would not form a coalition unless he could have a European | :30:45. | :30:51. | |
referendum? Mr Cameron has given a cast iron guarantee that if he | :30:52. | :30:54. | |
becomes prime minister last year, he will have a referendum on the Lisbon | :30:55. | :30:58. | |
Treaty. That is what he said previously and heeded not deliver on | :30:59. | :31:07. | |
that. The renegotiation is worth nothing. He says he will not form a | :31:08. | :31:11. | |
Government unless he can go forward to a referendum. He is desperately | :31:12. | :31:16. | |
pretending to be Eurosceptic whilst at the same time saying that | :31:17. | :31:19. | |
whatever the result is he will campaign for Britain to remain in. | :31:20. | :31:24. | |
In a sense that is what this election is about. Three traditional | :31:25. | :31:31. | |
parties plus the SNP, all of whom passionately believe in the European | :31:32. | :31:37. | |
Union. UKIP is saying there is a bigger and better world than that. | :31:38. | :31:42. | |
You are travelling with four bodyguards. Has this affected you | :31:43. | :31:47. | |
and your family life? I can't stand it that I have always been a free | :31:48. | :31:51. | |
spirit that has wandered around and do my own thing. I am afraid that | :31:52. | :31:56. | |
the level of threat has... I am sadly... We have a couple of | :31:57. | :32:01. | |
organisations out there headed up by senior Labour Party figures who | :32:02. | :32:05. | |
purport to be against fascism and extremism, who receive funding from | :32:06. | :32:09. | |
the Department for the communities, who receive funding from the trade | :32:10. | :32:15. | |
unions, who have acted in a violent wait more than once. You are saying | :32:16. | :32:21. | |
that the Labour Party is against these threats? No, I am saying... | :32:22. | :32:31. | |
You are still keen to be an MP? Yes. But let's get this out of the | :32:32. | :32:36. | |
way. What UKIP will don't do is we will target for the General Election | :32:37. | :32:41. | |
next year... Wouldn't it be easier if you just went to the Lords? That | :32:42. | :32:46. | |
is where most antiestablishment candidates... That is the last thing | :32:47. | :32:52. | |
I want to do. I will not rest until we are freed from political union | :32:53. | :32:56. | |
and Government from Brussels. We say goodbye to viewers in Scotland, who | :32:57. | :33:02. | |
leave us now for Sunday Politics Scotland. | :33:03. | :33:05. | |
Good morning and welcome to Sunday Politics Scotland. Coming up on the | :33:06. | :33:08. | |
programme: As ministers at Westminster and Holyrood do battle | :33:09. | :33:10. | |
over Scottish independence, are civil servants being drawn into the | :33:11. | :33:13. | |
fray? Is their much-heralded neutrality | :33:14. | :33:17. | |
being tested during this campaign? And we look back on 15 years of the | :33:18. | :33:26. | |
Scottish Parliament. Good morning. The UK Civil Service | :33:27. | :33:29. | |
is facing unprecedented challenges to its impartiality as London and | :33:30. | :33:32. | |
Edinburgh lock horns over the independence referendum. Mandarins | :33:33. | :33:34. | |
in both Whitehall and St Andrew's House face accusations they're | :33:35. | :33:37. | |
falling under the spell of their respective ministers. But the Sir | :33:38. | :33:41. | |
Humphreys are clear they're duty bound to obey the codes of conduct | :33:42. | :33:45. | |
set out to stop them straying into party political issues. Andrew Kerr | :33:46. | :33:53. | |
reports. Whitehall of old. Dusty civil | :33:54. | :33:58. | |
servants adhering to strict Victorian codes of conduct. The | :33:59. | :34:02. | |
civil service wants to keep that perception. They serve whoever that | :34:03. | :34:06. | |
ministers are, whoever the public elects. The public are the key | :34:07. | :34:12. | |
people. They serve the Government. They are not totally neutral while | :34:13. | :34:16. | |
that Government is in office, but they are politically impartial so | :34:17. | :34:20. | |
they can immediately switch from one policy to possibly a diametric | :34:21. | :34:23. | |
opposed one, as they have done sometimes in the past. MPs and the | :34:24. | :34:29. | |
public administration select committee are investigating their | :34:30. | :34:32. | |
impartiality and the exceptional circumstances of the referendum have | :34:33. | :34:36. | |
given them plenty to chew over. This week, the Scottish branch was | :34:37. | :34:40. | |
questioned over its involvement in the White Paper. Many commentators | :34:41. | :34:45. | |
have raised concerns, including Professor Jim Gallagher, who is | :34:46. | :34:50. | |
advising Better Together. My personal view is that it went a bit | :34:51. | :34:59. | |
too far. It is too much of a political document. Not only does it | :35:00. | :35:01. | |
explain what independence might mean, it goes on to say things like | :35:02. | :35:04. | |
what a Scottish National party Government would do if he were | :35:05. | :35:06. | |
elected after the referendum and after the election, and that seems | :35:07. | :35:10. | |
to push it a wee bit too far. That was defended by the man who signed | :35:11. | :35:14. | |
it off. This was carefully discussed, and led to vary careful | :35:15. | :35:22. | |
caveat in within the text of the White Paper that what we were | :35:23. | :35:25. | |
talking about here was in fact there were two pages opposite of powers | :35:26. | :35:30. | |
that would be available to an independent Scotland, and how, or | :35:31. | :35:35. | |
the SNP to form a Government in 2016 and beyond, they would exercise | :35:36. | :35:39. | |
them. Others have come to his support, including a former First | :35:40. | :35:44. | |
Minister. Henry McLeish work with civil servants both North and South | :35:45. | :35:48. | |
of the border. In Scotland today there is a very fevered political | :35:49. | :35:52. | |
atmosphere and strange tensions and anxieties and often parties want to | :35:53. | :35:55. | |
look at the civil service in more detail to see whether they are | :35:56. | :36:03. | |
stepping over the line. As far as I'm concerned, what we have seen so | :36:04. | :36:05. | |
far in the independence debate does not mean that the line has been | :36:06. | :36:08. | |
crossed. Many believe the Sir Nicholas Furse and, permanent | :36:09. | :36:11. | |
Secretary to the Treasury, stepped over that line when he released a | :36:12. | :36:15. | |
letter strongly advising against a currency union. He was questioned by | :36:16. | :36:20. | |
MPs last month. I regard this as a very exceptional set of | :36:21. | :36:23. | |
circumstances, but it is one where the interests of the British state, | :36:24. | :36:27. | |
the Government, the official Treasury, the pound sterling, all | :36:28. | :36:36. | |
these things, the pound sterling's position in markets were all | :36:37. | :36:40. | |
completely aligned. This was a very serious issue and it seemed to me | :36:41. | :36:43. | |
the line may have been crossed because what we saw here was advice | :36:44. | :36:47. | |
being given, being made public. That does not normally happen. At the end | :36:48. | :36:53. | |
of the day, we know that after the vote, if there is a Yes vote, there | :36:54. | :36:56. | |
will be a completely different contraction on the question of the | :36:57. | :37:00. | |
sterling currency union. These are exceptional circumstances for these | :37:01. | :37:03. | |
officials with conventions designed for a different world, but Professor | :37:04. | :37:07. | |
Gallagher is broadly supportive of the boundaries being stretched in | :37:08. | :37:12. | |
this case. It is critically about what Nick Macpherson thought he was | :37:13. | :37:16. | |
doing was making very clear against the accusation from the Scottish | :37:17. | :37:20. | |
Government that UK ministers were playing politics with the currency, | :37:21. | :37:26. | |
he was saying that as the head of one of the big important | :37:27. | :37:28. | |
institutions that support the currency, no, this was not a | :37:29. | :37:32. | |
political gesture, this was an explanation of the evidence and what | :37:33. | :37:37. | |
the reality is well. The old certainties have changed and the | :37:38. | :37:40. | |
realities of this referendum have hit the ball hat brigade. The | :37:41. | :37:44. | |
mandarins may have turned out to very different rules depending on | :37:45. | :37:48. | |
what happens on the 18th of September. | :37:49. | :37:52. | |
I'm joined by two former special advisors. In London, John McTernan, | :37:53. | :37:55. | |
who worked for Tony Blair in Downing Street. And in Edinburgh, Alex Bell, | :37:56. | :37:58. | |
who worked for the Scottish Government on the white paper. Good | :37:59. | :38:02. | |
afternoon to both of you. Alex Bell, has civil service neutrality been | :38:03. | :38:05. | |
compromised during this referendum campaign? You have to pick up the | :38:06. | :38:09. | |
fact that these are exceptional stuck in senses. As for the charge | :38:10. | :38:13. | |
against the Scottish Government, don't think so. They are doing what | :38:14. | :38:17. | |
they are charged to do, represent the Government of the day. The | :38:18. | :38:21. | |
exceptional thing, as Henry McLeish was just telling us there, was Sir | :38:22. | :38:26. | |
Nick Macpherson's decision to utter these words himself rather than | :38:27. | :38:29. | |
simply get a minister to utter them. But broadly, we are in a very | :38:30. | :38:33. | |
difficult situation. Cerney is the one who has thing to answer for. -- | :38:34. | :38:40. | |
Sir Nick. But this is a detail of the referendum that leaves voters | :38:41. | :38:42. | |
very turned off and is not at the heart of what is the destiny of our | :38:43. | :38:55. | |
country. What -- What kind of terms should we consider as to whether | :38:56. | :39:05. | |
advice is published or not? Sir -- It is an evolving situation but Nick | :39:06. | :39:12. | |
MacPherson made the case very strongly and Jim McCulloch made it | :39:13. | :39:18. | |
in your package. This is one of the critical issues. In all the focus | :39:19. | :39:22. | |
groups, we know the public want to know what would the currency of an | :39:23. | :39:25. | |
independent Scotland Bay, and the view of the Bank of England, the | :39:26. | :39:30. | |
Treasury, and all of the main political parties in the UK is | :39:31. | :39:34. | |
Scotland would not get a currency union. But that is a political | :39:35. | :39:38. | |
decision, so is a civil servant being dragged into that political | :39:39. | :39:44. | |
decision? No, he was explaining that the Government, the Bank of England | :39:45. | :39:47. | |
and Nick Macpherson made the same point. There are huge risks to the | :39:48. | :39:52. | |
currency union. It is the same reason the SNP do not want Scotland | :39:53. | :39:58. | |
to join the euro. Your choices are constrained by another country's | :39:59. | :40:04. | |
central bank. So to think that where the politicisation has gone on is | :40:05. | :40:08. | |
the disgraceful publication of the White Paper which was an SNP | :40:09. | :40:12. | |
manifesto, and the appalling behaviour of Sir Peter Housden in | :40:13. | :40:17. | |
allowing that to go ahead, to keep in to the political isolation, the | :40:18. | :40:21. | |
political pressure of the SNP. Civil servants have compiled a White | :40:22. | :40:25. | |
Paper. It did contain details of what the SNP might do if it formed a | :40:26. | :40:28. | |
Government after independence. Is that a step too far for civil | :40:29. | :40:33. | |
servants? I am afraid we are seeing the default for most of this | :40:34. | :40:38. | |
campaign, which is if in doubt, slurred the other side. I do not | :40:39. | :40:41. | |
think Sir Peter Housden has done anything wrong. The elected | :40:42. | :40:46. | |
Government has a policy which was a referendum on independence. They had | :40:47. | :40:51. | |
to produce a White Paper therein. Broadly, Whitehall has to do the | :40:52. | :40:55. | |
same, to represent the views of the connected Government there, which is | :40:56. | :40:58. | |
of course the coalition. What we have here is an attempt to somehow, | :40:59. | :41:03. | |
if we can smear the civil servant, we can somehow smear the policy. | :41:04. | :41:08. | |
This point on the currency union, no doubt a currency union will bring | :41:09. | :41:11. | |
great controls and that is something we could discuss maybe with some | :41:12. | :41:15. | |
fruit, but discussing the idea that we know it to be a certainty, we | :41:16. | :41:19. | |
simply don't, partly because Government ministers in the UK | :41:20. | :41:22. | |
Government themselves have cast doubt on it. But on the White | :41:23. | :41:26. | |
Paper, the civil service code has an obligation not to act in a way that | :41:27. | :41:30. | |
is determined by party political considerations or use resources for | :41:31. | :41:36. | |
a party political purpose. Can it not be argued that that is what | :41:37. | :41:40. | |
happened with a White Paper given that it laid out what a political | :41:41. | :41:46. | |
party would do after the election? For the Iraq war, when the civil | :41:47. | :41:51. | |
servants were preparing documents to justify it, but they pursuing the | :41:52. | :41:57. | |
ideal of one man or a party, or the idea of a state? I am not sure. They | :41:58. | :42:01. | |
different philosophical point, what happened to the White Paper in the | :42:02. | :42:07. | |
1997 referendum of devolution? What's the civil service pursuing | :42:08. | :42:11. | |
the will of one party, the democratically elected Government, | :42:12. | :42:15. | |
or the state? When you are civil servant, you are operating in a, | :42:16. | :42:21. | |
let's say interesting, philosophical area. It is the whole wisdom of the | :42:22. | :42:26. | |
system that stops it from the ring one way or another. Paul Flynn, | :42:27. | :42:30. | |
Labour MP, said the Westminster committee investigating civil | :42:31. | :42:35. | |
service and impartiality was being abused as a platform for the English | :42:36. | :42:40. | |
lead opposition to Scottish independence. Our Westminster MPs | :42:41. | :42:44. | |
against Scottish independence able to investigate this? Paul Flynn made | :42:45. | :42:50. | |
a ridiculous statement. I have no idea why he thinks that the UK | :42:51. | :42:54. | |
Parliament, which includes Scottish MPs representing Scottish voters, | :42:55. | :42:57. | |
should not be looking at the politicisation of the civil service. | :42:58. | :43:02. | |
You can go to that White Paper, the SNP made a party political figures. | :43:03. | :43:10. | |
They invented a cost for Trident, which only appears in SNP documents. | :43:11. | :43:15. | |
If it was a proper White Paper, it would have a balanced discussion of | :43:16. | :43:20. | |
possibilities. It just says what will happen, not what may happen. | :43:21. | :43:28. | |
The White Paper is 670 pages. So far we have had 1200 pages from the UK | :43:29. | :43:32. | |
Government with more to come. Civil servants not being used in the same | :43:33. | :43:38. | |
manner at Whitehall? No, the civil service at Whitehall is doing | :43:39. | :43:40. | |
analyses and you can look at those and I have not seen a single fact in | :43:41. | :43:44. | |
any of those papers. There are things which are not true in the | :43:45. | :43:49. | |
White Paper, they are political, and there are things which took about | :43:50. | :43:55. | |
the SNP plans to have by 2030 8 million migrants in Scotland. That | :43:56. | :44:00. | |
is being concealed because they do not want discussion of immigration. | :44:01. | :44:08. | |
It is a very strange document. I'm prepared to come into the studio to | :44:09. | :44:11. | |
discuss point about the civil service and about the White Paper. | :44:12. | :44:19. | |
I'm not prepared to join in with them his borderline racist slur | :44:20. | :44:22. | |
dragging immigrants into this debate. When Ed Miliband was last in | :44:23. | :44:26. | |
the country the Daily Mail had a front-page splash which said if you | :44:27. | :44:29. | |
vote, yes, there will be a wave of new immigrants. I am deeply alarmed | :44:30. | :44:36. | |
that the Labour Party should be focusing on immigration is what they | :44:37. | :44:39. | |
think is a winning ticket, and do not think it serves either John | :44:40. | :44:45. | |
McTernan or his campaign well. On the issue of publishing advice, we | :44:46. | :44:49. | |
know the Scottish Government has commissioned Frank Mulholland, the | :44:50. | :44:52. | |
Lord Advocate, to give them advice and Europe. Should that be | :44:53. | :44:57. | |
published? Is that a wise move to inform the public? I'm of the view | :44:58. | :45:02. | |
that all legal advice on all things should be published, and obviously | :45:03. | :45:07. | |
we have some outstanding examples on that to do with the Iraq war and | :45:08. | :45:10. | |
other things. But the Government precedent, the habit has been not to | :45:11. | :45:15. | |
do that. If we want a universal agreement across the civil service, | :45:16. | :45:22. | |
the UK in Scotland, that all legal advice should be published, I am | :45:23. | :45:27. | |
afraid the civil service has allowed politicians to pick and choose and | :45:28. | :45:30. | |
that is why we end up in this dubious position. Thank you. | :45:31. | :45:35. | |
Tomorrow marks 15 years since 129 proud and freshly elected-members of | :45:36. | :45:37. | |
the newly reformed Scottish Parliament sat in Edinburgh for the | :45:38. | :45:40. | |
first time. The devolution of powers followed a referendum in 1997 after | :45:41. | :45:43. | |
Tony Blair's government came to power and was seen as unfinished | :45:44. | :45:46. | |
business of the Labour leader's predecessor, John Smith. The | :45:47. | :45:50. | |
anniversary coincides with this year's independence referendum which | :45:51. | :45:53. | |
will decide the next chapter in Scotland's story. Our political | :45:54. | :45:56. | |
correspondent, Tim Reid, has been looking back. | :45:57. | :46:05. | |
It was this act of Parliament, debated over many months at | :46:06. | :46:08. | |
Westminster, which initially handed powers to Edinburgh. It could not be | :46:09. | :46:15. | |
more definitive. There shall be a Scottish parliament. I like that! | :46:16. | :46:27. | |
Donald Dewar was one of the first to be elected, becoming the first first | :46:28. | :46:30. | |
Minister before his untimely death less than a year later. While he had | :46:31. | :46:37. | |
had to persuade Tony Blair about devolution, some other Labour | :46:38. | :46:43. | |
figures were never convinced. We will go down a motorway to a | :46:44. | :46:46. | |
separate state, a journey on which most of us do not want to embark. | :46:47. | :46:55. | |
There have been high points and low point, controversial decisions that | :46:56. | :46:59. | |
have provoked anger. Sometimes politicians will get it right, | :47:00. | :47:03. | |
sometimes they will get it wrong. That is not a reason to rip up the | :47:04. | :47:13. | |
political system. The current first Minister, Alex Salmond also won a | :47:14. | :47:17. | |
seat in those first elections but how committed where he and his party | :47:18. | :47:20. | |
he was asked during the campaign, to devolution. I'm standing for | :47:21. | :47:26. | |
election for the devolved parliament and we respected you have policies | :47:27. | :47:34. | |
to run that devolved government. To be clear, a vote for you is a vote | :47:35. | :47:39. | |
for independence? We are the Independence party. The first five | :47:40. | :47:48. | |
years were spent in temporary premises on loan from the Church of | :47:49. | :47:51. | |
Scotland. The Scottish Parliament adjourned on the 25th day of March | :47:52. | :47:59. | |
in the year 1707 is hereby reconvened. Despite massive backing | :48:00. | :48:06. | |
for devolution, public support waned when from May to July that year, MSP | :48:07. | :48:10. | |
's discussed nothing but procedure and their adventures. For many, | :48:11. | :48:14. | |
those accounts were forgotten and his -- this former presiding | :48:15. | :48:30. | |
officer... Perhaps in the very early days, some people felt a bit wobbly | :48:31. | :48:36. | |
when all of the bad publicity, particularly about the cost of the | :48:37. | :48:39. | |
building that was going on. We have left that well behind us. It is a | :48:40. | :48:43. | |
long time since anyone mentioned that, which shows that we are now | :48:44. | :48:48. | |
part of Scottish society. Holyrood's voting system has allowed | :48:49. | :48:53. | |
smaller parties in much greater say and for the first two terms gave Lib | :48:54. | :48:58. | |
Dems ministerial power. They had a Coalition with Labour. It was | :48:59. | :49:06. | |
difficult at their fences within parties as well as between parties. | :49:07. | :49:13. | |
We had ways of dealing with these difficulties. But while devolution | :49:14. | :49:20. | |
has given Parliament -- has made Parliament more available to voters, | :49:21. | :49:27. | |
there Russell concerns. We have not but read of the old problems, the | :49:28. | :49:35. | |
dominance of major parties. The disappointing performance of the | :49:36. | :49:38. | |
committees that were supposed to be a counterweight and the general | :49:39. | :49:42. | |
secrecy in government. It has certainly been a huge improvement | :49:43. | :49:47. | |
but much more can be done. In the 1990s, there were plans for a change | :49:48. | :49:59. | |
to income tax which was never imposed. If Mr Blair is being | :50:00. | :50:07. | |
serious when he says that the tartan tax is raised, let us be certain by | :50:08. | :50:13. | |
not having the referendum at all. The former Tory prime ministers, | :50:14. | :50:24. | |
John Major, ended up at odds with his own colleagues in Scotland. | :50:25. | :50:31. | |
Having a Scottish government, having a Scottish parliament has made | :50:32. | :50:34. | |
sense. Most of the powers of the Scottish government are similar to | :50:35. | :50:39. | |
the responsible days I had when I was Secretary of State for Scotland | :50:40. | :50:44. | |
but I had to get the consent of the rest of the UK government. The | :50:45. | :50:51. | |
Secretary of State for Scotland has a degree of freedom. Legally, | :50:52. | :50:56. | |
Scotland's devolution journey started here at West Mr. Where will | :50:57. | :51:04. | |
it end? There are two roads, full independence or further devolution. | :51:05. | :51:11. | |
You're watching Sunday Politics Scotland. Let's cross now for the | :51:12. | :51:25. | |
news with Andrew Kerr. Good morning. The Church of Scotland has invited | :51:26. | :51:28. | |
the leaders of Yes Scotland and Better Together to a special service | :51:29. | :51:31. | |
of reconciliation on the Sunday after the referendum. It will be | :51:32. | :51:34. | |
held in Edinburgh's St Giles Cathderal and led by the the Kirk's | :51:35. | :51:37. | |
new moderator, the Reverend John Chalmers. He hopes the service will | :51:38. | :51:40. | |
help heal divisions after the vote. It's the tenth anniversary of the | :51:41. | :51:43. | |
Stockline Plastics disaster and relatives of the nine people killed | :51:44. | :51:47. | |
will gather in Glasgow to remember their loved ones. The factory in the | :51:48. | :51:50. | |
Maryhill area was destroyed by a propane explosion. The relatives are | :51:51. | :51:54. | |
backing a campaign by the local MSP to allow sheriffs to order safety | :51:55. | :51:57. | |
improvements identified after a tragedy. | :51:58. | :52:04. | |
The Olympic medallist Tom Daley will meet the Commonwealth Baton as it | :52:05. | :52:07. | |
arrives back in the British isles today. It's been all around the | :52:08. | :52:10. | |
world, including here in Uganda, but it'll touch down in Jersey this | :52:11. | :52:13. | |
afternoon. The baton will arrive in Scotland on June the 14th. | :52:14. | :52:20. | |
Let's now take a look at the forecast with Christopher. | :52:21. | :52:27. | |
Hello. And East-West split to the weather. The further west you are, a | :52:28. | :52:30. | |
correlation of bright spells and showers but in the east cloudier | :52:31. | :52:34. | |
with some patchy rain really through Aberdeenshire, down towards Angus | :52:35. | :52:39. | |
and the Lothians later. It should not feel too bad under the sunniest | :52:40. | :52:44. | |
guys, 14 or 15 degrees. Cooler under the cloud. Later, some heavy showers | :52:45. | :52:50. | |
developing, primarily in the south-west, into this evening. That | :52:51. | :52:54. | |
is the forecast for now. That's it. Back to Gary. | :52:55. | :52:57. | |
Thank you. Now it's time to have a look at the | :52:58. | :53:01. | |
Sunday papers and what's happening in the week ahead. And with me today | :53:02. | :53:08. | |
are Jeane Freeman, who's a former senior civil servant and a member of | :53:09. | :53:12. | |
Women For Independence, and the political editor of the Daily | :53:13. | :53:20. | |
Record, David Clegg. Let us start with the story on the front of the | :53:21. | :53:27. | |
Sunday Herald. It was advice given to James Callaghan to set up an oil | :53:28. | :53:33. | |
fund in Scotland, which they did not do. There are many yes supporters | :53:34. | :53:37. | |
who think that Westminster squandered that choice. Many believe | :53:38. | :53:50. | |
that Scotland's oil wealth was wasted by not setting up an oil | :53:51. | :53:54. | |
fund. There is a general consensus that if we had set up an oil fund in | :53:55. | :54:00. | |
the UK, it would have been a worthwhile endeavour. The fact is | :54:01. | :54:04. | |
that it didn't happen and the question is what is better to do | :54:05. | :54:10. | |
going forward. The money was spent on public services rather than being | :54:11. | :54:14. | |
put into that fund. I think it is interesting because the whole | :54:15. | :54:17. | |
argument around having an oil fund is really an argument about how we | :54:18. | :54:22. | |
as a country harness our resources and really it is a straightforward | :54:23. | :54:30. | |
argument that most people, if they had the resources, would say we | :54:31. | :54:33. | |
would use some of it now and put some of it away for the longer term | :54:34. | :54:37. | |
investment, weather that is to help children go through higher education | :54:38. | :54:40. | |
or set up their own homes or whatever. But you cannot spend it in | :54:41. | :54:46. | |
the meantime. You can do a bit of both. It is interesting news but I'm | :54:47. | :54:49. | |
not sure weather it serves us well to start implying somehow some | :54:50. | :54:59. | |
victim had, that they were against us. It reinforces the sound common | :55:00. | :55:04. | |
sense of having such a thing as an oil fund the view fortunate enough | :55:05. | :55:11. | |
to have that kind of resource as a country, you should use it wisely. | :55:12. | :55:17. | |
I'm not sure it does much more than that. On the theme of money, yes | :55:18. | :55:26. | |
Scotland have detailed the donations. The others on the list of | :55:27. | :55:33. | |
fairly prominent independent supporters. No surprises there. The | :55:34. | :55:40. | |
most surprising thing is how much the Weirs gave. It is interesting | :55:41. | :55:56. | |
when you look at the history of this how that one quirk of circumstance | :55:57. | :55:59. | |
very much changed how one side was able to fund itself and deliver its | :56:00. | :56:02. | |
message to the public. They also point out that they have had 11,000 | :56:03. | :56:08. | |
donors giving up to seven and a half thousand pounds -- ?7,500. Nothing | :56:09. | :56:19. | |
on the scale of the Weirs donations but quite a lot. That is a fair | :56:20. | :56:24. | |
comment for them to make. Lots of small donations. They are indicators | :56:25. | :56:31. | |
of people engaging in the debate. Yes, it is absolutely fortunate. | :56:32. | :56:44. | |
David 's point is valid. It could be the tipping point in one direction | :56:45. | :56:50. | |
or another. The figures from December four Better Together showed | :56:51. | :57:05. | |
that they had more small donations will stop they have had more small | :57:06. | :57:11. | |
donations which is counterintuitive to how we feel the referendum has | :57:12. | :57:15. | |
been going, which is that yes Scotland has more of a grassroots | :57:16. | :57:19. | |
movement which you would expect to translate into more smaller | :57:20. | :57:21. | |
donations but it appears that that is not what has happened. Our people | :57:22. | :57:27. | |
giving their time rather than their cash? Some of the Better Together | :57:28. | :57:36. | |
donations could have come from the rest of the UK. Further onto the | :57:37. | :57:48. | |
civil service neutrality, given your civil service career. As their | :57:49. | :57:56. | |
neutrality been compromised? It is one of those pieces of nonsense that | :57:57. | :58:00. | |
anoraks get engaged in in order to support one side of the ultimate or | :58:01. | :58:06. | |
another. I was a senior civil servant and a senior adviser, so I'm | :58:07. | :58:09. | |
fortunate enough to have been on both sides of that. The rules | :58:10. | :58:16. | |
clearly defined? They are and the rules are clear about how far their | :58:17. | :58:22. | |
policy advice goes and where it does not tip over into political | :58:23. | :58:27. | |
decision-making. They are crystal clear about that and that is why we | :58:28. | :58:30. | |
have political advisers. I think the notion that the white paper is some | :58:31. | :58:35. | |
kind of step too far for the Scottish civil service is really a | :58:36. | :58:40. | |
piece of nonsense that is being put forward in order to support a | :58:41. | :58:43. | |
particular political viewpoint on the independence campaign and I just | :58:44. | :58:47. | |
don't think it is correct at all. Finally, the Church of Scotland are | :58:48. | :58:54. | |
going to hold a reconsideration service just after the referendum. | :58:55. | :59:01. | |
Is that an overreaction? I find the term reconciliation to be very | :59:02. | :59:07. | |
strong. There is a heated debate and feelings will be hurt and | :59:08. | :59:09. | |
relationships no doubt will suffer but I don't think we are quite at | :59:10. | :59:13. | |
the stage where the nation will be so terribly divided that they cannot | :59:14. | :59:16. | |
come together. Perhaps people who are very on much on the front line | :59:17. | :59:23. | |
are more aware of what is going on. But I do not sense that in general | :59:24. | :59:29. | |
we are getting into a situation that will cause any long-term problems. | :59:30. | :59:32. | |
We will leave things that but thank you both very much for coming in | :59:33. | :59:34. | |
this lunchtime. That's all from the us this week. | :59:35. | :59:38. | |
I'll be back at the same time next week and with a special European | :59:39. | :59:41. | |
elections hustings on Newsnight Scotland tomorrow at 10:30pm. Until | :59:42. | :59:43. | |
then, goodbye. | :59:44. | :59:48. |