Browse content similar to 07/05/2017. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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It's Sunday morning and this is the Sunday Politics. | :00:38. | :00:41. | |
The local election results made grim reading for Labour. | :00:42. | :00:43. | |
With just a month to go until the general election, | :00:44. | :00:48. | |
will promising to rule out tax rises for all but the well off help | :00:49. | :00:51. | |
The Conservatives have their own announcement on mental health, | :00:52. | :00:57. | |
as they strain every sinew to insist they don't think they've got | :00:58. | :00:59. | |
But is there still really all to play for? | :01:00. | :01:07. | |
And tonight we will find out who is the next | :01:08. | :01:11. | |
President of France - Emmanuel Macron or Marine Le Pen - | :01:12. | :01:14. | |
And in the South East: ended with a hack attack | :01:15. | :01:19. | |
Wipe-out for Ukip at the ballot box as the party loses | :01:20. | :01:22. | |
all its county councillors - so is there any future | :01:23. | :01:24. | |
potential impact in marginals next month. If Ukip support continues to | :01:25. | :01:31. | |
evaporate... And joining me for all of that, | :01:32. | :01:38. | |
three journalists ready to analyse the week's politics | :01:39. | :01:41. | |
with all the forensic focus of Diane Abbott | :01:42. | :01:44. | |
preparing for an interview, and all the relaxed, | :01:45. | :01:48. | |
slogan-free banter of Theresa May It's Janan Ganesh, Isabel Oakeshott | :01:49. | :01:50. | |
and Steve Richards. So, the Conservatives are promising, | :01:51. | :01:56. | |
if re-elected, to change mental health laws in England and Wales | :01:57. | :02:03. | |
to tackle discrimination, and they're promising 10,000 more | :02:04. | :02:06. | |
staff working in NHS mental health treatment in England by 2020 - | :02:07. | :02:12. | |
although how that's to be Here's Health Secretary | :02:13. | :02:14. | |
Jeremy Hunt speaking There is a lot of new | :02:15. | :02:17. | |
money going into it. In January, we said we were going | :02:18. | :02:24. | |
to put an extra ?1 billion Does this come from other parts | :02:25. | :02:28. | |
of the NHS, or is it No, it is new money | :02:29. | :02:31. | |
going into the NHS It's not just of course money, | :02:32. | :02:35. | |
it's having the people who deliver these jobs, | :02:36. | :02:42. | |
which is why we need Well, we're joined now from Norwich | :02:43. | :02:44. | |
by the Liberal Democrat health This weekend, they've launched | :02:45. | :02:49. | |
their own health announcement, promising a 1% rise on every income | :02:50. | :02:52. | |
tax band to fund the NHS. Do you welcome the Conservatives | :02:53. | :03:04. | |
putting mental health onto the campaign agenda in the way that they | :03:05. | :03:09. | |
have? I welcome it being on the campaign agenda but I do fear that | :03:10. | :03:14. | |
the announcement is built on thin air. You raised the issue at the | :03:15. | :03:19. | |
start about the 10,000 extra staff, and questions surrounding how it | :03:20. | :03:22. | |
would be paid for. There is no additional money on what they have | :03:23. | :03:27. | |
already announced for the NHS. We know it falls massively short on the | :03:28. | :03:34. | |
expectation of the funding gap which, by 2020, is likely to be | :03:35. | :03:38. | |
about 30 billion. That is not disputed now. Anyone outside of the | :03:39. | :03:42. | |
government, wherever you are on the political spectrum, knows the money | :03:43. | :03:46. | |
going in is simply not enough. So, rather like the claim that they | :03:47. | :03:55. | |
would add 5000 GPs to the workforce by 2020, that is not on target. | :03:56. | :04:00. | |
Latest figures show a fall in the number of GPs. They make these | :04:01. | :04:05. | |
claims, but I'm afraid they are without substance, unless they are | :04:06. | :04:09. | |
prepared to put money behind it. Your party's solution to the money | :04:10. | :04:14. | |
problem is to put a 1% percentage point on all of the bands of income | :04:15. | :04:25. | |
tax to raise more money 20-45. Is that unfair? Most pensioners who | :04:26. | :04:33. | |
consume 40% of NHS spending, but over 65s only pay about 20% of | :04:34. | :04:37. | |
income tax. Are you penalising the younger generations for the health | :04:38. | :04:42. | |
care of an older generation? It is the first step in what we are | :04:43. | :04:46. | |
describing as a 5-point recovery plan for the NHS and care system. | :04:47. | :04:51. | |
So, for what is available to us now, it seems to be the fairest way of | :04:52. | :04:57. | |
bringing in extra resources, income tax is progressive, and is based on | :04:58. | :05:01. | |
your ability to pay for your average British worker. It would be ?3 per | :05:02. | :05:06. | |
week which is the cost of less than two cups of coffee per week. In the | :05:07. | :05:11. | |
longer run, we say that by the end of the next Parliament, we would be | :05:12. | :05:15. | |
able to introduce a dedicated NHS and care tax. Based, probably, | :05:16. | :05:22. | |
around a reformed national insurance system, so it becomes a dedicated | :05:23. | :05:28. | |
NHS and care tax. Interestingly, the former permanent secretary of the | :05:29. | :05:31. | |
Treasury, Nick MacPherson, said clearly that this idea merits | :05:32. | :05:37. | |
further consideration which is the first time anyone for the Treasury | :05:38. | :05:43. | |
has bought into the idea of this. Let me ask you this. You say it is a | :05:44. | :05:47. | |
small amount of tax that people on average incomes will have to pay | :05:48. | :05:51. | |
extra. We are talking about people who have seen no real increases to | :05:52. | :05:57. | |
their income since 2007. They have been struggling to stand still in | :05:58. | :06:02. | |
terms of their own pay, but you are going to add to their tax, and as I | :06:03. | :06:06. | |
said earlier, most of the health care money will then go to | :06:07. | :06:11. | |
pensioners whose incomes have risen by 15%. I'm interested in the | :06:12. | :06:16. | |
fairness of this redistribution? Bearing in mind first of all, | :06:17. | :06:22. | |
Andrew, that the raising of the tax threshold that the Liberal Democrats | :06:23. | :06:28. | |
pushed through in the coalition increased the effective pay in your | :06:29. | :06:32. | |
pocket for basic rate taxpayers by about ?1000. We are talking about a | :06:33. | :06:38. | |
tiny fraction of that. I suppose that you do have to ask, all of us | :06:39. | :06:41. | |
in this country need to ask ourselves this question... Are we | :06:42. | :06:46. | |
prepared to pay, in terms of the average worker, about ?3 extra per | :06:47. | :06:51. | |
week to give us a guarantee that when our loved ones need that care, | :06:52. | :06:56. | |
in their hour of need, perhaps suspected cancer, that care will be | :06:57. | :07:01. | |
available for them? I have heard two cases recently brought my attention. | :07:02. | :07:07. | |
An elderly couple, the wife has a very bad hip. They could not allow | :07:08. | :07:10. | |
the weight to continue. She was told that she would need to wait 26 | :07:11. | :07:15. | |
weeks, she was in acute pain. They then deduct paying ?20,000 for | :07:16. | :07:19. | |
private treatment to circumvent waiting time. They hated doing it, | :07:20. | :07:24. | |
because they did not want to jump the queue. But that is what is | :07:25. | :07:29. | |
increasingly happening. Sorry to interrupt, Norman Lamb comedy make | :07:30. | :07:32. | |
very good points but we are short on time today. One final question, it | :07:33. | :07:39. | |
looks like you might have the chance to do any of this, I'm told the best | :07:40. | :07:44. | |
you can hope to do internally is to double the number of seats you have, | :07:45. | :07:49. | |
which would only take you to 18. Do you think that promising to raise | :07:50. | :07:54. | |
people's income tax, even those on average earnings, is a vote winner? | :07:55. | :07:58. | |
I think the people in this country are crying out for politicians to be | :07:59. | :08:02. | |
straight and tenet as it is. At the moment we heading towards a | :08:03. | :08:09. | |
Conservative landslide... -- tell it as it is. But do we want a 1-party | :08:10. | :08:14. | |
state? We are electing a government not only to deal with the crucial | :08:15. | :08:19. | |
Brexit negotiations, but oversee the stewardship of the NHS and funding | :08:20. | :08:23. | |
of our schools, all of these critical issues. We need an | :08:24. | :08:26. | |
effective opposition and with the Labour Party having taken itself off | :08:27. | :08:31. | |
stage, the Liberal Democrats need to provide an effective opposition. | :08:32. | :08:34. | |
Norman Lamb, thank you for joining us this morning. Thank you. | :08:35. | :08:38. | |
Labour and Tories are anxious to stress the general election | :08:39. | :08:41. | |
result is not a foregone conclusion, whatever the polls say. | :08:42. | :08:43. | |
Order you just heard Norman Lamb say there that he thought the | :08:44. | :08:48. | |
Conservatives were heading for a landslide... | :08:49. | :08:51. | |
But did Thursday's dramatic set of local election results | :08:52. | :08:53. | |
in England, Scotland and Wales give us a better idea of how the country | :08:54. | :08:56. | |
Here's Emma Vardy with a behind-the-scenes look at how | :08:57. | :09:00. | |
Good morning, it's seven o'clock on Friday, May 5th... | :09:01. | :09:03. | |
The dawn of another results day. Anticipation hung in the air. | :09:04. | :09:09. | |
Early results from the local elections in England suggest | :09:10. | :09:13. | |
there's been a substantial swing from Labour to the Conservatives. | :09:14. | :09:16. | |
While the pros did their thing, I needed breakfast. | :09:17. | :09:20. | |
Don't tell anyone, but I'm going to pinch a sausage. | :09:21. | :09:23. | |
The overnight counts had delivered successes for the Tories. | :09:24. | :09:25. | |
But with most councils only getting started, | :09:26. | :09:26. | |
there was plenty of action still to come. | :09:27. | :09:32. | |
It's not quite the night of Labour's nightmares. | :09:33. | :09:34. | |
There's enough mixed news in Wales, for example - | :09:35. | :09:36. | |
looks like they're about to hold Cardiff - that they'll try and put | :09:37. | :09:39. | |
But in really simple terms, four weeks from a general election, | :09:40. | :09:46. | |
the Tories are going forward and Labour are going backwards. | :09:47. | :09:49. | |
How does it compare being in here to doing the telly? | :09:50. | :09:54. | |
Huw, how do you prepare yourself for a long day of results, then? | :09:55. | :10:00. | |
We're not even on air yet, as you can see, and already | :10:01. | :10:05. | |
in Tory HQ this morning, there's a kind of, "Oh, | :10:06. | :10:09. | |
I'm scared this will make people think the election's just | :10:10. | :10:12. | |
I think leave it like that - perfect. | :10:13. | :10:15. | |
I want the Laura look. This is really good, isn't it? | :10:16. | :10:18. | |
Usually, we're in here for the Daily Politics. | :10:19. | :10:22. | |
But it's been transformed for the Election Results programme. | :10:23. | :10:27. | |
But hours went by without Ukip winning a single seat. | :10:28. | :10:39. | |
The joke going around Lincolnshire County Council today | :10:40. | :10:45. | |
from the Conservatives is that the Tories have eaten | :10:46. | :10:47. | |
We will rebrand and come back strong. | :10:48. | :10:51. | |
Morale, I think, is inevitably going to take a bit of a tumble. | :10:52. | :10:56. | |
Particularly if Theresa May starts backsliding on Brexit. | :10:57. | :10:59. | |
And then I think we will be totally reinvigorated. | :11:00. | :11:02. | |
There are a lot of good people in Ukip and I wouldn't | :11:03. | :11:05. | |
want to say anything unkind, but we all know it's over. | :11:06. | :11:08. | |
Ukip press officer. Difficult job. | :11:09. | :11:12. | |
Ukip weren't the only ones putting a brave face on it. | :11:13. | :11:16. | |
Labour were experiencing their own disaster day too, | :11:17. | :11:19. | |
losing hundreds of seats and seven councils. | :11:20. | :11:23. | |
If the result is what these results appear to indicate, | :11:24. | :11:27. | |
Can we have a quick word for the Sunday Politics? | :11:28. | :11:32. | |
A quick question for Sunday Politics - how are you feeling? | :11:33. | :11:40. | |
Downhearted or fired up for June? Fired up, absolutely fired up. | :11:41. | :11:44. | |
He's fired up. We're going to go out there... | :11:45. | :11:47. | |
We cannot go on with another five years of this. | :11:48. | :11:49. | |
How's it been for you today? Tiring. | :11:50. | :11:52. | |
It always is, but I love elections, I really enjoy them. | :11:53. | :11:55. | |
Yes, you know, obviously we're disappointed at some of the results, | :11:56. | :11:59. | |
it's been a mixed bag, but some opinion polls | :12:00. | :12:01. | |
and commentators predicted we'd be wiped out - we haven't. | :12:02. | :12:06. | |
As for the Lib Dems, not the resurgence they hoped for, | :12:07. | :12:09. | |
After a dead heat in Northumberland, the control of a whole council came | :12:10. | :12:17. | |
The section of England in which we had elections yesterday | :12:18. | :12:26. | |
was the section of England that was most likely to vote Leave. | :12:27. | :12:30. | |
When you go to sleep at night, do you just have election results | :12:31. | :12:33. | |
The answer is if that's still happening, I don't get to sleep. | :12:34. | :12:39. | |
There we go. Maybe practice some yoga... | :12:40. | :12:41. | |
Thank you very much but I have one here. | :12:42. | :12:45. | |
With the introduction of six regional mayors, | :12:46. | :12:49. | |
Labour's Andy Burnham became Mr Manchester. | :12:50. | :12:52. | |
But by the time Corbyn came to celebrate, the new mayor | :12:53. | :12:55. | |
We want you to stay for a second because I've got some | :12:56. | :13:01. | |
I used to present news, as you probably know. | :13:02. | :13:04. | |
I used to present BBC Breakfast in the morning. | :13:05. | :13:06. | |
The SNP had notable successes, ending 40 years of Labour | :13:07. | :13:08. | |
What did you prefer - presenting or politics? | :13:09. | :13:15. | |
And it certainly had been a hard day at the office for some. | :13:16. | :13:21. | |
Ukip's foothold in local government was all but wiped out, | :13:22. | :13:26. | |
leaving the Conservatives with their best local | :13:27. | :13:28. | |
So another election results day draws to a close. | :13:29. | :13:33. | |
But don't worry, we'll be doing it all again in five weeks' time. | :13:34. | :13:36. | |
For now, though, that's your lot. Off you go. | :13:37. | :13:39. | |
Now let's look at some of Thursday's results in a little more detail, | :13:40. | :13:51. | |
and what they might mean for the wider fortunes | :13:52. | :13:53. | |
In England, there were elections for 34 councils. | :13:54. | :14:05. | |
The Conservatives took control of ten of them, | :14:06. | :14:07. | |
gaining over 300 seats, while Labour sustained | :14:08. | :14:09. | |
While the Lib Dems lost 28 seats, Ukip came close to extinction, | :14:10. | :14:14. | |
and can now boast of only one councillor in the whole of England. | :14:15. | :14:20. | |
In Scotland, the big story was Labour losing | :14:21. | :14:22. | |
a third of their seats, and control of three councils - | :14:23. | :14:24. | |
while the Tories more than doubled their number of councillors. | :14:25. | :14:27. | |
In Wales, both the Conservatives and Plaid Cymru made gains, | :14:28. | :14:31. | |
There was some encouraging news for Jeremy Corbyn's party | :14:32. | :14:37. | |
after Liverpool and Manchester both elected Labour mayors, | :14:38. | :14:39. | |
although the Tories narrowly won the West Midlands mayoral race. | :14:40. | :14:46. | |
We're joined now by who else but elections expert John Curtice. | :14:47. | :14:49. | |
You saw him in Emma's film, he's now back in Glasgow. | :14:50. | :14:53. | |
In broad terms, what do these local election results tell us about the | :14:54. | :15:06. | |
general election result? First we have to remember what Theresa May | :15:07. | :15:11. | |
wants to achieve in the general election is a landslide, and winning | :15:12. | :15:14. | |
a landslide means you have to win big in terms of votes. The local | :15:15. | :15:18. | |
election results certainly suggest Theresa May is well on course to win | :15:19. | :15:22. | |
the general election, at least with four weeks to go, and of course | :15:23. | :15:26. | |
people could change their minds. We all agree the Conservatives were | :15:27. | :15:30. | |
double-digit figures ahead of Labour in these elections. However, whereas | :15:31. | :15:35. | |
the opinion polls on average at the moment suggest there is a 17 point | :15:36. | :15:42. | |
Conservative lead, and that definitely would deliver a | :15:43. | :15:44. | |
landslide, it seems the local election figures, at least in | :15:45. | :15:46. | |
England, are pointing to something close to an 11 point Conservative | :15:47. | :15:51. | |
lead. That increase would not necessarily deliver a landslide that | :15:52. | :15:57. | |
she wants. The truth is, the next four weeks are probably not about | :15:58. | :16:01. | |
who wins this election unless something dramatic changes, but | :16:02. | :16:05. | |
there is still a battle as to whether or not Theresa May achieves | :16:06. | :16:08. | |
her objective of winning a landslide. She has to win big. The | :16:09. | :16:13. | |
local elections as she is not sure to be there, and therefore she is | :16:14. | :16:17. | |
going to have to campaign hard. Equally, while Labour did have most | :16:18. | :16:21. | |
prospect of winning, they still at least at the goal of trying to keep | :16:22. | :16:26. | |
the conservative majority relatively low, and therefore the Parliamentary | :16:27. | :16:30. | |
Labour Party are alive and kicking. Interesting that the local election | :16:31. | :16:34. | |
results don't produce a landslide if replicated on June 8th, but when I | :16:35. | :16:38. | |
looked at when local elections had taken place a month before the | :16:39. | :16:44. | |
general election, it was in 1983 and 1987. The Tories did well in both | :16:45. | :16:49. | |
local elections in these years, but come the general election, they | :16:50. | :16:52. | |
added five points to their share of the vote. No reason it should happen | :16:53. | :16:57. | |
again, but if it did, that would take them into landslide territory. | :16:58. | :17:01. | |
Absolutely right, if they do five points better than the local | :17:02. | :17:04. | |
elections, they are in landslide territory. We have to remember, in | :17:05. | :17:11. | |
1983, the Labour Party ran an inept campaign and their support ballet. | :17:12. | :17:16. | |
In 1987, David Owen and David Steele could not keep to the same lines. -- | :17:17. | :17:22. | |
their support fell away. That underlines how well the opposition | :17:23. | :17:25. | |
campaign in the next four weeks does potentially matter in terms of | :17:26. | :17:28. | |
Theresa May's ability to achieve their objective. It is worth | :17:29. | :17:33. | |
noticing in the opinion polls, two things have happened, first, Ukip | :17:34. | :17:38. | |
voters, a significant slice going to the Conservatives, which helped to | :17:39. | :17:41. | |
increase the Conservative leader in the bowels. But in the last week, | :17:42. | :17:44. | |
the Labour vote seems to have recovered. -- in the polls. So the | :17:45. | :17:50. | |
party is not that far short of what Ed Miliband got in 2015, so the | :17:51. | :17:56. | |
Conservative leader is back down to 16 or 17, as we started. So we | :17:57. | :18:00. | |
should not necessarily presume Labour are going to go backwards in | :18:01. | :18:05. | |
the way they did in 1983. I want to finish by asking if there are deeper | :18:06. | :18:10. | |
forces at work? Whether the referendum in this country is | :18:11. | :18:13. | |
producing a realignment in British politics. The Scottish referendum | :18:14. | :18:17. | |
has produced a kind of realignment in Scotland. And in a different way, | :18:18. | :18:22. | |
the Brexit referendum has produced a realignment in England and Wales. Do | :18:23. | :18:29. | |
you agree? You are quite right. Referendums are potentially | :18:30. | :18:33. | |
disruptive in Scotland, they helped to ensure the constitutional | :18:34. | :18:36. | |
question became the central issue, and the 45% who voted yes our been | :18:37. | :18:41. | |
faithful to the SNP since. Although the SNP put in a relatively | :18:42. | :18:45. | |
disappointing performance in Scotland on Thursday. Equally, south | :18:46. | :18:50. | |
of the border, on the leave side, in the past 12 months and particularly | :18:51. | :18:53. | |
the last few weeks, the Conservatives have corralled the | :18:54. | :18:58. | |
leave vote, about two thirds of those who voted leave now say they | :18:59. | :19:02. | |
will vote Conservative. Last summer, the figure was only 50%. On the | :19:03. | :19:07. | |
remain side, the vote is still fragmented. The reason why Theresa | :19:08. | :19:17. | |
May is in the strong position she is is not simply because the leave vote | :19:18. | :19:21. | |
has been realigned, but the remain vote has not. Thank you for joining | :19:22. | :19:29. | |
us. You can go through polls and wonder who is up and down, but I | :19:30. | :19:33. | |
wonder whether the Scottish and Brexit referendums have produced | :19:34. | :19:38. | |
fundamental changes. In Scotland, the real division now is between the | :19:39. | :19:45. | |
centre-left Nationalist party and the centre-right Unionist party. | :19:46. | :19:49. | |
That has had the consequence of squeezing out Labour in the | :19:50. | :19:54. | |
argument, never mind the Greens and the Lib Dems. In London, England, | :19:55. | :19:59. | |
Wales, the Brexit referendum seems to have produced a realignment of | :20:00. | :20:04. | |
the right to the Tories' advantage, and some trouble for the Labour blue | :20:05. | :20:13. | |
vote -- blue-collar vote. It works for the pro Brexit end of the | :20:14. | :20:20. | |
spectrum but not the other half. In the last century, we had people like | :20:21. | :20:24. | |
Roy Jenkins dreaming of and writing about the realignment of British | :20:25. | :20:27. | |
politics as though it could be consciously engineered, and in fact | :20:28. | :20:30. | |
what made it happen was just the calling of a referendum. It's not | :20:31. | :20:36. | |
something you can put about as a politician, it flows from below, | :20:37. | :20:39. | |
when the public begin to think of politics in terms of single issues, | :20:40. | :20:45. | |
dominant issues, such as leaving the European Union. Rather than a broad | :20:46. | :20:48. | |
spectrum designed by a political class. I wonder whether now Remain | :20:49. | :20:54. | |
have it in them to coalesce behind a single party. It doesn't look like | :20:55. | :20:58. | |
they can do it behind Labour. The Liberal Democrats are frankly too | :20:59. | :21:01. | |
small in Parliament to constitute that kind of force. The closest | :21:02. | :21:06. | |
thing to a powerful Remain party is the SNP which by definition has | :21:07. | :21:11. | |
limited appeal south of the border. It is hard. The realignment. We | :21:12. | :21:17. | |
don't know if it is permanent or how dramatic it will be, but there is | :21:18. | :21:21. | |
some kind of realignment going on. At the moment, it seems to be a | :21:22. | :21:25. | |
realignment that by and large is to the benefit of the Conservatives. | :21:26. | :21:30. | |
Without a doubt, and that can be directly attributed to the | :21:31. | :21:33. | |
disappearance of Ukip from the political landscape. I have been | :21:34. | :21:36. | |
saying since the referendum that I thought Ukip was finished. They | :21:37. | :21:41. | |
still seem to be staggering on under the illusion... Some people may have | :21:42. | :21:45. | |
picked up on Nigel Farage this morning saying that Ukip still had a | :21:46. | :21:49. | |
strong role to play until Brexit actually happens. But I think it's | :21:50. | :21:53. | |
very, very hard to convince the voters of that, because they feel | :21:54. | :21:57. | |
that, with the result of the referendum, that was Ukip's job | :21:58. | :22:00. | |
done. And those votes are not going to delay the party -- to the Labour | :22:01. | :22:05. | |
Party because of the flaws with Jeremy Corbyn's leadership, they are | :22:06. | :22:11. | |
shifting to the Tories. I agree. The key issue was the referendum. It has | :22:12. | :22:15. | |
produced a fundamental change that few predicted at the time it was | :22:16. | :22:20. | |
called. Most fundamental of all, it has brought about a unity in the | :22:21. | :22:24. | |
Conservative Party. With some exceptions, but they are now off | :22:25. | :22:27. | |
editing the Evening Standard and other things! This is now a party | :22:28. | :22:33. | |
united around Brexit. Since 1992, the Tories have been split over | :22:34. | :22:39. | |
Europe, at times fatally so. The referendum, in ways that David | :22:40. | :22:42. | |
Cameron did not anticipate, has brought about a united front for | :22:43. | :22:47. | |
this election. In a way, this is a sequel to the referendum, because | :22:48. | :22:51. | |
it's about Brexit but we still don't know what form Brexit is going to | :22:52. | :22:54. | |
take. By calling it early, Theresa May has in effect got another go at | :22:55. | :23:01. | |
a kind of Brexit referendum without knowing what Brexit is, with a | :23:02. | :23:04. | |
united Tory party behind her. We shall see if it is a blip or a | :23:05. | :23:06. | |
long-term trend in British politics. Now let's turn to Labour's big | :23:07. | :23:10. | |
campaign announcement today, and that was the promise of no | :23:11. | :23:12. | |
income tax rise for those earning less than ?80,000 - | :23:13. | :23:15. | |
which of course means those earning more than that could | :23:16. | :23:18. | |
face an increase. Here's Shadow Chancellor John | :23:19. | :23:19. | |
McDonell on the BBC earlier. What we are saying today, anyone | :23:20. | :23:29. | |
earning below ?80,000, we will guarantee you will not have an | :23:30. | :23:34. | |
increase in income tax, VAT or national insurance contributions. | :23:35. | :23:37. | |
For those above 80,000, we are asking them to pay a modest bit more | :23:38. | :23:41. | |
to fund our public services. A modest bit. You will see it will be | :23:42. | :23:46. | |
a modest increase. Talking about modest increases, so we can have a | :23:47. | :23:52. | |
society which we believe everyone shares the benefits of. | :23:53. | :23:55. | |
We're joined now by Shadow Justice Secretary Richard Burgon, in Leeds. | :23:56. | :24:00. | |
Mr McDonnell stressed that for those earning over 80,000, they would be | :24:01. | :24:07. | |
paying more but it would be modest. He used the word modest 45 times. | :24:08. | :24:11. | |
But there is only 1.2 million of them. -- 4-5 times. So that would | :24:12. | :24:18. | |
not raise much money. This is about the key part of this tax policy for | :24:19. | :24:25. | |
the many, not the few. We are saying that low earners and middle earners | :24:26. | :24:28. | |
won't be paying more tax under a Labour government, which is not a | :24:29. | :24:32. | |
policy the Conservatives have committed to yet. As John McDonnell | :24:33. | :24:36. | |
also said in his interview earlier, if there is a tax rise on the top 5% | :24:37. | :24:43. | |
of earners, earning over ?80,000, it would be a modest rise. I am trying | :24:44. | :24:48. | |
to work out what that would mean in terms of money. If it is too modest, | :24:49. | :24:55. | |
you don't raise much. What will happen is the Labour Party's | :24:56. | :24:57. | |
manifesto, published in the next couple of weeks, wilfully set out | :24:58. | :25:03. | |
and cost it. I can't make an announcement now. -- will fully set | :25:04. | :25:12. | |
out and cost it. Moving on to the local elections, Mr Corbyn says he | :25:13. | :25:15. | |
is closing the gap with the Tories. What evidence is there? John Curtis | :25:16. | :25:21. | |
just said there was an 11% gap in the results, Labour 11% behind. The | :25:22. | :25:27. | |
polls before that suggested Labour were anything up to 20% behind. Was | :25:28. | :25:32. | |
it a great day for Labour? Certainly not. Is there a lot to do between | :25:33. | :25:38. | |
now and June? Sure, but we are relishing every moment of that. | :25:39. | :25:43. | |
Comparing equivalent elections in 2013, the Tories increased their | :25:44. | :25:47. | |
share of the vote by 13%. You lost 2%. That's a net of 15%. In what way | :25:48. | :25:57. | |
is that closing the gap? We have gone down to 11 points behind. Am I | :25:58. | :26:04. | |
satisfied? Certainly not. Is Labour satisfied? Certainly not. A week is | :26:05. | :26:08. | |
a long time in politics, 4-5 weeks is even longer. The local elections | :26:09. | :26:13. | |
are over, the general election campaign is starting, and we want to | :26:14. | :26:17. | |
put out there the policies that will improve the lives of low and middle | :26:18. | :26:22. | |
income earners. And also many people looking to be well off as well. You | :26:23. | :26:27. | |
lost 133 seats in Scotland. Are you closing the gap in Scotland? The | :26:28. | :26:33. | |
journey back for Labour in Scotland, I always thought, wouldn't be an | :26:34. | :26:36. | |
easy one. Since the council election results and Scotland that we are | :26:37. | :26:41. | |
comparing this to, there has been an independence referendum and the | :26:42. | :26:45. | |
terrible results for Labour in the 2015 general election. So it is a | :26:46. | :26:49. | |
challenge, but one hundreds of thousands of Labour members are | :26:50. | :26:53. | |
determined to meet. That is why we're talking about bread and butter | :26:54. | :26:56. | |
policies to make people's lives better. These local elections took | :26:57. | :27:03. | |
place midtown. Normally mid-term was the worst time for a government. -- | :27:04. | :27:10. | |
took place midterm. And the best for an opposition. That is a feature of | :27:11. | :27:15. | |
British politics. So why did you lose 382 councillors in a midterm | :27:16. | :27:20. | |
election? As Andy Burnham said when he gave his acceptance speech after | :27:21. | :27:25. | |
his terrific first ballot result win in Manchester, it was an evening of | :27:26. | :27:31. | |
mixed results for Labour. Generally bad, wasn't it? Why did you lose all | :27:32. | :27:35. | |
of these councillors midterm? It is not a welcome result for Labour, I | :27:36. | :27:40. | |
am not going to be deluded. But what I and the Labour Party are focused | :27:41. | :27:44. | |
on is the next four weeks. And how we are going to put across policies | :27:45. | :27:49. | |
like free school meals for primary school children, ?10 an hour minimum | :27:50. | :27:54. | |
wage, the pledge not to increase tax for low and middle earners, 95% of | :27:55. | :28:00. | |
earners in this country. And saving the NHS from privatisation and | :28:01. | :28:03. | |
funding it properly. These are just some of the policies, including by | :28:04. | :28:08. | |
the way a boost in carers' allowance, that will make the lives | :28:09. | :28:12. | |
of people in Britain better off. Labour are for the many, not for the | :28:13. | :28:19. | |
few. But people like from political parties aspiring to government is to | :28:20. | :28:23. | |
be united and to be singing from the same song sheet among the leaders. | :28:24. | :28:27. | |
You mentioned Andy Burnham. Why did he not join Mr Corbyn when Jeremy | :28:28. | :28:31. | |
Corbyn went to the rally in Manchester on Friday to celebrate | :28:32. | :28:37. | |
his victory? First of all, Andy Burnham did a radio interview | :28:38. | :28:40. | |
straight after his great victory in which he said Jeremy Corbyn helped | :28:41. | :28:44. | |
him to win votes in that election. Why didn't he turn up? As to the | :28:45. | :28:51. | |
reason Andy Burnham wasn't there at the meeting Jeremy was doing in | :28:52. | :28:57. | |
Manchester, it was because, I understand, Andy was booked into | :28:58. | :29:00. | |
celebrate his victory with his family that night. I don't begrudge | :29:01. | :29:04. | |
him that and hopefully you don't. The leader has made the effort to | :29:05. | :29:07. | |
travel to Manchester to celebrate one of the few victories you enjoyed | :29:08. | :29:11. | |
on Thursday, surely you would join the leader and celebrate together? | :29:12. | :29:17. | |
Well, I don't regard, and I am sure you don't, Andy Burnham a nice time | :29:18. | :29:21. | |
with his family... -- I don't begrudge. He made it clear Jeremy | :29:22. | :29:27. | |
Corbyn assisted him. I can see you are not convinced yourself. I am | :29:28. | :29:35. | |
convinced. The outgoing Labour leader in Derbyshire lost his seat | :29:36. | :29:40. | |
on Thursday, you lost Derbyshire, which was a surprise in itself... He | :29:41. | :29:45. | |
said that genuine party supporters said they were not voting Labour | :29:46. | :29:49. | |
while you have Jeremy Corbyn as leader. Are you hearing that on the | :29:50. | :29:56. | |
doorstep too? I have been knocking on hundreds of doors this week in my | :29:57. | :30:00. | |
constituency and elsewhere. And of course, you never get every single | :30:01. | :30:04. | |
voter thinking the leader of any political party is the greatest | :30:05. | :30:10. | |
thing since sliced bread. But it's only on a minority of doorsteps that | :30:11. | :30:14. | |
people are criticising the Labour leader. Most people aren't even | :30:15. | :30:19. | |
talking about these questions. Most people are talking about Jeremy | :30:20. | :30:24. | |
Corbyn's policies, free primary school meals, ?10 an hour minimum | :30:25. | :30:30. | |
wage. Also policies such as paternity pay, maternity pay and | :30:31. | :30:33. | |
sickness pay for the self-employed, that have been hard-pressed under | :30:34. | :30:37. | |
this government. So I don't recognise that pitch of despondency, | :30:38. | :30:40. | |
but I understand that in different areas, in local elections, | :30:41. | :30:46. | |
perspectives are different. That was Derbyshire. The outgoing Labour | :30:47. | :30:50. | |
leader of Nottinghamshire County Council said there was concern on | :30:51. | :30:53. | |
the doorstep about whether Jeremy Corbyn was the right person to lead | :30:54. | :30:58. | |
the Labour Party, and even Rotherham, loyal to Mr Corbyn, won | :30:59. | :31:03. | |
the mail contest in Liverpool, he said that the Labour leader was more | :31:04. | :31:09. | |
might on the doorstep. -- the mayor contest. Does that explain some of | :31:10. | :31:13. | |
the performance on Thursday? I am confident that in the next four | :31:14. | :31:17. | |
weeks, when we get into coverage on television, that people will see | :31:18. | :31:22. | |
further the kind of open leadership Jeremy provides. In contrast to | :31:23. | :31:26. | |
Theresa May's refusal to meet ordinary people. She came to my | :31:27. | :31:30. | |
constituency and I don't think that a single person who lives here. And | :31:31. | :31:34. | |
also she is ducking the chance to debate with Jeremy Corbyn on TV. She | :31:35. | :31:37. | |
should do it and let the people decide. I don't know why she won't. | :31:38. | :31:44. | |
Finally, the Labour mantra is that you are the party of the ordinary | :31:45. | :31:49. | |
people, why is it the case that among what advertisers call C2s, D | :31:50. | :32:02. | |
and E', how can you on the pulse of that social group, how can you do | :32:03. | :32:08. | |
that? Our policy is to assist, protect and improve the living | :32:09. | :32:12. | |
standards of people in those groups and our policy is to protect the | :32:13. | :32:15. | |
living standards of the majority... They do not seem to be convinced? We | :32:16. | :32:20. | |
have four weeks to convince them and I believe that we will. Thank you | :32:21. | :32:22. | |
for coming onto the programme. But the wooden spoon from Thursday's | :32:23. | :32:24. | |
elections undoubtedly went to Ukip. Four years ago the party | :32:25. | :32:30. | |
won its best ever local government performance, | :32:31. | :32:33. | |
but this time its support just Ukip's share of the vote | :32:34. | :32:35. | |
plunging by as much as 18 points, most obviously | :32:36. | :32:38. | |
benefiting the Conservatives. So is it all over for | :32:39. | :32:42. | |
the self-styled people's army? Well we're joined now | :32:43. | :32:44. | |
by the party's leader in the Welsh Assembly, | :32:45. | :32:46. | |
Neil Hamilton, he's in Cardiff. Neil Hamilton, welcome. Ukip | :32:47. | :32:57. | |
finished local elections gaining the same number of councillors as the | :32:58. | :33:01. | |
Rubbish Party, one. That sums up your prospects, doesn't | :33:02. | :33:07. | |
it? Rubbish? We have been around a long time and seemed that I'd go | :33:08. | :33:13. | |
out, go in again, we will keep calm and carry on. We are in a phoney | :33:14. | :33:17. | |
war, negotiations on Brexit have not started but what we know from | :33:18. | :33:21. | |
Theresa May is that in seven years, as Home Secretary and Prime | :33:22. | :33:25. | |
Minister, she has completely failed to control immigration which was one | :33:26. | :33:29. | |
of the great driving forces behind the Brexit result. I'm not really | :33:30. | :33:35. | |
looking for any great success in immigration from the Tories, and a | :33:36. | :33:38. | |
lot of people who have previously voted for Ukip will be back in our | :33:39. | :33:43. | |
part of the field again. They don't seem to care about that at the | :33:44. | :33:48. | |
moment, your party lost 147 council seats. You gain one. It is time to | :33:49. | :33:54. | |
shut up shop, isn't it? You are right, the voters are not focusing | :33:55. | :33:58. | |
on other domestic issues at the moment. They have made up their | :33:59. | :34:01. | |
minds going into these negotiations in Brussels, Theresa May, as Prime | :34:02. | :34:07. | |
Minister, needs as much support as she can get. I think they are wrong | :34:08. | :34:11. | |
in this respect, it would be better to have a cohort of Ukip MPs to back | :34:12. | :34:17. | |
her up. She was greatly helped by the intervention of Mr Juncker last | :34:18. | :34:23. | |
week as well, the stupidity in how the European Commission has tried to | :34:24. | :34:27. | |
bully the British government, in those circumstances the British | :34:28. | :34:29. | |
people will react in one way going the opposite way to what the | :34:30. | :34:35. | |
Brussels establishment one. She has been fortunate as an acute tactician | :34:36. | :34:39. | |
in having the election now. I struggle to see the way back for | :34:40. | :34:42. | |
your party. You aren't a threat to the Tories in the south. Ukip voters | :34:43. | :34:47. | |
are flocking to the Tories in the south. You don't threaten Labour in | :34:48. | :34:52. | |
the north. It is the Tories who threaten Labour now in the north. | :34:53. | :34:55. | |
There is no room to progress, is there? The reality will be is that | :34:56. | :35:01. | |
once we are back on the domestic agenda again, and the Brexit | :35:02. | :35:06. | |
negotiations are concluded, we will know what the outcome is. And the | :35:07. | :35:11. | |
focus will be on bread and butter issues. We have all sorts of | :35:12. | :35:15. | |
policies in our programme which other parties cannot match us on. | :35:16. | :35:21. | |
The talk is putting up taxes to help the health service, we would scrap | :35:22. | :35:25. | |
the foreign aid budget and put another ?8 billion in the health | :35:26. | :35:27. | |
service, no other party says that. These policies would be popular with | :35:28. | :35:33. | |
the ordinary working person. Is Paul Nuttall to blame on the meltdown of | :35:34. | :35:38. | |
what happened, no matter who is leader? These are cosmic forces | :35:39. | :35:41. | |
beyond the control of any individual at the moment, it is certainly not | :35:42. | :35:45. | |
Paul Nuttall's .com he's been in the job for six months and in half that | :35:46. | :35:51. | |
time he was fighting a by-election -- certainly not Paul Nuttall's | :35:52. | :35:56. | |
fault. We have two become more professional than we have been | :35:57. | :35:59. | |
recently. It has not been a brilliant year for Ukip one way or | :36:00. | :36:05. | |
another, as you know, but there are prospects, in future, that are very | :36:06. | :36:08. | |
rosy. I do not believe that the Tories will deliver on other | :36:09. | :36:12. | |
promises that they are now making. The Welsh assembly elections are not | :36:13. | :36:16. | |
until 2021, you are a member of that, but at that point you will not | :36:17. | :36:21. | |
have any MEPs, because we will be out on the timetable. With this | :36:22. | :36:26. | |
current showing he will have no end', you could be Ukip's most | :36:27. | :36:33. | |
senior elected representative. That would be a turnout for the books! -- | :36:34. | :36:41. | |
no elected MPs. The Tories are not promoting the policies that I | :36:42. | :36:44. | |
believe them. You will see that in the Ukip manifesto when it is | :36:45. | :36:50. | |
shortly publish... Leaders talk mainly about the male genital | :36:51. | :37:00. | |
mutilation and is -- female and burqas. No, when the manifesto | :37:01. | :37:05. | |
launched, we have a lot of policies, I spoke moments ago about it, but | :37:06. | :37:12. | |
also on foreign aid. Scrapping green taxes, to cut people's electricity | :37:13. | :37:16. | |
bills by ?300 per year on average. There are a lot of popular policies | :37:17. | :37:25. | |
that we have. We will hear more from that in the weeks to come. | :37:26. | :37:29. | |
Paul Nuttall said "If the price of written leaving the year is a Tory | :37:30. | :37:33. | |
advance after taking up this patriarch course, it is a price that | :37:34. | :37:38. | |
Ukip is prepared to pay". That sounds like a surrender statement? | :37:39. | :37:43. | |
It is a statement of fact, the main agenda is to get out of the EU and | :37:44. | :37:48. | |
have full Brexit. That is why Ukip came into existence 20 years ago. | :37:49. | :37:54. | |
When it is achieved, we go back to the normal political battle lines. | :37:55. | :37:58. | |
Niall Hamilton in Cardiff, thank you very much for joining us. | :37:59. | :38:02. | |
It's just gone 11.35am, you're watching the Sunday Politics. | :38:03. | :38:04. | |
We say goodbye to viewers in Scotland, who leave us now | :38:05. | :38:07. | |
Coming up here in 20 minutes - we'll be talking about the French | :38:08. | :38:16. | |
I'm Julia George and this is the Sunday Politics | :38:17. | :38:18. | |
This morning, we'll be taking a detailed look | :38:19. | :38:22. | |
at the winners and losers in Thursday's county council elections. | :38:23. | :38:25. | |
To do that, I'm joined by some winners and some | :38:26. | :38:27. | |
losers from Thursday - their parties stood for election | :38:28. | :38:29. | |
For Ukip, Richard Palmer, Sarah Osborne of the Liberal Democrats, | :38:30. | :38:34. | |
Peter Lamb for Labour and, for the Conservatives, Paul Carter. | :38:35. | :38:38. | |
So, voters in Kent, West and East Sussex and Surrey went | :38:39. | :38:44. | |
With a round-up of the results, here's Bhavani Vadde. | :38:45. | :38:49. | |
It's a democratic exercise to decide who should be in charge | :38:50. | :38:52. | |
of essential local services, ranging from adult social care | :38:53. | :38:54. | |
But, with a general election looming, this week's county council | :38:55. | :39:03. | |
elections are also being viewed by many as a useful barometer | :39:04. | :39:06. | |
of public opinion ahead of that national vote on the 8th of June. | :39:07. | :39:11. | |
The story in the south-east was the consolidation | :39:12. | :39:14. | |
The party gained 45 county councillors and increased | :39:15. | :39:19. | |
their majority in West Sussex, Surrey and Kent. | :39:20. | :39:23. | |
The Conservatives also gained control of East | :39:24. | :39:25. | |
Sussex County Council, where no party has had | :39:26. | :39:28. | |
There's been a lot of work, working with the leaders of the opposition | :39:29. | :39:35. | |
to deliver our policies, because as a minority | :39:36. | :39:37. | |
Going forward, my style has always been to be inclusive, | :39:38. | :39:44. | |
so we'll continue to talk to the opposition, but actually | :39:45. | :39:46. | |
having a majority ensures that we can deliver what we've told | :39:47. | :39:49. | |
Tory glory came at the expense of Ukip. | :39:50. | :39:54. | |
Four years ago, the party dramatically rose to become | :39:55. | :39:57. | |
the opposition on Kent and West Sussex County Councils but, | :39:58. | :40:01. | |
having achieved the aim of leaving the EU, the party's | :40:02. | :40:04. | |
They lost all 32 seats in Kent, Sussex and Surrey. | :40:05. | :40:10. | |
I think we've done so badly because of the tectonic plates | :40:11. | :40:13. | |
of national politics, there's no doubt about it. | :40:14. | :40:15. | |
I think the movements in national politics will bring us back | :40:16. | :40:18. | |
into great popularity in a year or two because I don't believe, | :40:19. | :40:21. | |
and I think many others out there don't believe, | :40:22. | :40:24. | |
that actually Theresa May has the ability to see | :40:25. | :40:26. | |
Labour's results were also pretty dire, losing 11 | :40:27. | :40:31. | |
seats across the region, including in Dartford, Gravesend, | :40:32. | :40:35. | |
Dover, Deal and Hastings, all areas where the party has had | :40:36. | :40:39. | |
They lost more than half their councillors | :40:40. | :40:43. | |
as well as their group leader in Kent. | :40:44. | :40:45. | |
It wasn't all doom and gloom, though. | :40:46. | :40:47. | |
They gained Margate West from Ukip, and held five seats in Crawley. | :40:48. | :40:51. | |
We've actually bucked the national trend, so we kept those five good | :40:52. | :40:55. | |
people in post and we'll be working away down at county council. | :40:56. | :40:58. | |
We've got a lot of young people here, young families who think | :40:59. | :41:01. | |
about their future and, at the moment, their future | :41:02. | :41:04. | |
looks very uncertain, and I think Jeremy Corbyn | :41:05. | :41:07. | |
The Lib Dem revival that the party had hoped for didn't | :41:08. | :41:12. | |
Modest success for them, after gaining three seats overall | :41:13. | :41:17. | |
They are now the official opposition on all our county councils. | :41:18. | :41:23. | |
One of their gains was in Lewes, which has given them some optimism | :41:24. | :41:26. | |
and is one of their target seats next month. | :41:27. | :41:29. | |
It's all going to help with the election in June, | :41:30. | :41:33. | |
but really this was about Newhaven and Bishopstone. | :41:34. | :41:35. | |
I live in the division, and my hope is to get | :41:36. | :41:38. | |
Of course, these local results do not predict success or failure | :41:39. | :41:43. | |
So will any of the opposition parties fare any better next month, | :41:44. | :41:49. | |
or are we heading for another Conservative landslide? | :41:50. | :41:52. | |
Joining me now is our political editor, Helen Catt. | :41:53. | :42:01. | |
What strikes you most about these results? | :42:02. | :42:03. | |
I'm not sure the overall picture was particularly a surprise. | :42:04. | :42:06. | |
We expected it to be a good day for the Conservatives, | :42:07. | :42:09. | |
Paul Nuttall, the party leader, when he was in Broadstairs last | :42:10. | :42:13. | |
month, said he expected these to be the toughest elections | :42:14. | :42:15. | |
The surprise, though, is the sheer scale, the almost | :42:16. | :42:20. | |
absolute rout of the opposition in Kent, the total wipe-out of Ukip | :42:21. | :42:23. | |
in this area, which is supposed to be its heartland. | :42:24. | :42:27. | |
If, as Paul Nuttall said, this is the heart of Ukip, this has | :42:28. | :42:30. | |
I think also the Conservatives were not necessarily expecting | :42:31. | :42:34. | |
There were signs there on polling day. | :42:35. | :42:38. | |
They deployed the Prime Minister in areas in East Sussex | :42:39. | :42:41. | |
That's pretty much the nuclear campaigning option, so it's | :42:42. | :42:45. | |
definitely the scale that's a surprise here. | :42:46. | :42:46. | |
Let's look at some areas in particular. | :42:47. | :42:48. | |
As we've been talking about Ukip, why don't we start with Thanet? | :42:49. | :42:51. | |
What was interesting there was to see where that Ukip | :42:52. | :42:55. | |
vote went, and the answer was largely to the Conservatives, | :42:56. | :42:58. | |
although Labour did pick up a couple of seats. | :42:59. | :43:00. | |
What is interesting there is, will Labour now be looking | :43:01. | :43:03. | |
at the South Thanet contest and thinking, is there | :43:04. | :43:05. | |
If Ukip support appears to have fallen away, | :43:06. | :43:08. | |
the Conservatives caught up still in the expenses controversy | :43:09. | :43:12. | |
from the last election, although the candidate, | :43:13. | :43:14. | |
Craig Mackinlay, says of course he has done nothing wrong. | :43:15. | :43:16. | |
But that has the potential to throw a real grenade under | :43:17. | :43:19. | |
East Sussex, fantastically interesting. | :43:20. | :43:23. | |
Lewes, as you saw in that report, it really is game | :43:24. | :43:25. | |
on between the Conservatives and the Liberal Democrats. | :43:26. | :43:28. | |
Both parties made net gains with seats in the district. | :43:29. | :43:33. | |
Conservative sources tell me that they crunched the numbers | :43:34. | :43:37. | |
in the constituency and they think they are about 2000 votes ahead. | :43:38. | :43:40. | |
Worth pointing out though, the Greens did astonishingly well | :43:41. | :43:42. | |
If the Lib Dems can convince some of those voters to come | :43:43. | :43:48. | |
across to them on their anti-Brexit platform, that could | :43:49. | :43:50. | |
When you've only got a majority of 1000, small gains | :43:51. | :43:54. | |
A quick thought to what extent you think we can predict anything | :43:55. | :44:00. | |
about the general election from these results. | :44:01. | :44:01. | |
Well, you've always got to be careful with this. | :44:02. | :44:05. | |
These are different elections, turnout seems to be lower, | :44:06. | :44:07. | |
and of course two of the major areas of the south-east were not voting - | :44:08. | :44:11. | |
But arguably this is a better indication of direction | :44:12. | :44:14. | |
This was how people actually voted, and certainly candidates | :44:15. | :44:18. | |
were saying to me that, as soon as Theresa May called | :44:19. | :44:20. | |
that general election, all the talk on the doorstep stopped | :44:21. | :44:23. | |
being about local issues and it was national ones. | :44:24. | :44:31. | |
Let's hear from our guests, from the Conservatives, Labour, Liberal | :44:32. | :44:38. | |
Democrat, and we start with Ukip. Ukip looked so strong in Kent and | :44:39. | :44:43. | |
West Sussex, the official opposition on two the county councils. You have | :44:44. | :44:49. | |
been wiped out. What went wrong? Towards the end of last year, we | :44:50. | :44:53. | |
were doing well in by-elections in Kent, winning in Ashford, Maidstone, | :44:54. | :44:56. | |
Thanet, and even into the run-up to the county elections, we were | :44:57. | :45:02. | |
concentrating on local issues that people were concerned about, the | :45:03. | :45:06. | |
overdevelopment, air pollution, those sort of issues that people are | :45:07. | :45:09. | |
concerned about. When the election was called, it started to drop off, | :45:10. | :45:13. | |
and people were voting purely because Theresa May decided to avoid | :45:14. | :45:23. | |
the election expenses scandal. So Ukip simply doesn't stand up to a | :45:24. | :45:27. | |
powerful Prime Minister who appears to have the ear of the population? | :45:28. | :45:32. | |
You didn't at that point had anything to offer? On local issues, | :45:33. | :45:37. | |
certainly we had things to offer, but when Theresa May called the | :45:38. | :45:41. | |
election a Brexit issue, our support started to wane, and it wasn't | :45:42. | :45:45. | |
helped by our leaders saying, to get a good Brexit, you need to vote | :45:46. | :45:49. | |
Conservative, which I think was ill thought out. Paul Nuttall didn't | :45:50. | :45:51. | |
actually say that, he said in some actually say that, he said in some | :45:52. | :45:56. | |
areas, he would stand against a strong Brexiteer Tory MP. Is that | :45:57. | :46:00. | |
what you think people heard? That is what a lot of people thought. What | :46:01. | :46:05. | |
they should be doing during this election is judging their MP on what | :46:06. | :46:08. | |
they have done for their constituency, not how they vote. So | :46:09. | :46:12. | |
do you think the lead of Ukip completely ruined this election for | :46:13. | :46:17. | |
hard-working local Ukip councillors? Yes. I think we should have a | :46:18. | :46:23. | |
different leadership team at the top. What would a good leader do for | :46:24. | :46:29. | |
local councillors, for the people you think worked hard? Look at the | :46:30. | :46:32. | |
overpopulation, overdevelopment, people are worried about | :46:33. | :46:35. | |
overpopulation, overdevelopment, loss of farmland, the way social | :46:36. | :46:41. | |
education. They are the issues education. They are the issues | :46:42. | :46:45. | |
people are worried about the people on the doorstep on saying to me, we | :46:46. | :46:49. | |
want to scrap the BBC TV licence. It isn't an issue, but it seems to be | :46:50. | :46:54. | |
what Paul Nuttall wants to address. A couple of moments ago, on our | :46:55. | :47:01. | |
network show, we heard Neil Hamilton, leader of Ukip in Wales, | :47:02. | :47:03. | |
saying that Paul Nuttall simply isn't to blame for you looking for a | :47:04. | :47:06. | |
scapegoat in the end because life flash in the pan? I think we will | :47:07. | :47:13. | |
come back. And we will certainly come up with local issues. Once | :47:14. | :47:14. | |
people start to realise they are not people start to realise they are not | :47:15. | :47:18. | |
getting the Brexit that was promised, and I think democracy has | :47:19. | :47:23. | |
suffered. You've got a Conservative police and crime commission, a solid | :47:24. | :47:27. | |
Conservative run administration in Kent, Conservative MPs... Who can | :47:28. | :47:33. | |
they blame when it all goes wrong? When you talk about Ukip | :47:34. | :47:35. | |
issues, the thing that springs to issues, the thing that springs to | :47:36. | :47:40. | |
mind is that strong campaign to win Thanet District Council -- Thanet | :47:41. | :47:44. | |
District Council, which is centred on reopening Manston | :47:45. | :47:45. | |
that isn't a great record UK, is it? that isn't a great record UK, is it? | :47:46. | :47:53. | |
I agree. It had an effect in some areas I campaigned in during the | :47:54. | :47:56. | |
county elections, where people said that you made a promise and you | :47:57. | :48:01. | |
haven't delivered. We will come to my ever guests in a moment and a | :48:02. | :48:04. | |
final thought at the moment from Ukip. Given how you feel about the | :48:05. | :48:15. | |
national party, will some of your general election candidates think, | :48:16. | :48:18. | |
there is really no point in me standing? You've got to work for | :48:19. | :48:24. | |
your constituency. You've got to look at your MP's record on the | :48:25. | :48:28. | |
constituency he represents and, if he is not sticking up for the people | :48:29. | :48:33. | |
in the constituency, it needs to be fought tooth and nail. Would you | :48:34. | :48:39. | |
bother standing for Ukip now? I wouldn't be standing in | :48:40. | :48:43. | |
Sittingbourne and Sheppey. Paul Carter, your party was the official | :48:44. | :48:48. | |
opposition and they lost all 14 of their seats. -- this party was the | :48:49. | :48:51. | |
official opposition. Did Ukip do many good on the council? Many of | :48:52. | :49:00. | |
them were ex-Conservatives. They were a responsible opposition and it | :49:01. | :49:04. | |
worked reasonably well. All the opposition groups in Kent County | :49:05. | :49:08. | |
Council, I think, have acted very responsibly, particularly around how | :49:09. | :49:14. | |
we spend over ?1 billion worth of public money and the budget meeting. | :49:15. | :49:19. | |
We set our direction of travel and it was predominantly endorsed by all | :49:20. | :49:21. | |
political parties because they believed we were doing the right | :49:22. | :49:26. | |
thing. Said Kent County Council was so successful that there is no real | :49:27. | :49:32. | |
need opposition at all? No, you need strong opposition to be challenged, | :49:33. | :49:35. | |
and we have had a bigger majority than the one we have now got, which | :49:36. | :49:40. | |
is 67 out of 81 Conservative members. Four years ago, we had 73 | :49:41. | :49:47. | |
or 74. I think Paul is accusing the opposition of obedience. Not at all. | :49:48. | :49:50. | |
If you sit at your parties edge policies well and explain why you | :49:51. | :49:55. | |
are taking a direction of travel in social care, education, all the big | :49:56. | :50:01. | |
issues, if you win the high moral ground, they have very little place | :50:02. | :50:06. | |
to go other than to resort to yah boo politics, and that is to be | :50:07. | :50:12. | |
regretted. One of the other consequences of having such | :50:13. | :50:15. | |
dominance, and I know you reminded me earlier that you have been higher | :50:16. | :50:18. | |
in the past, but your argument that local government is underfunding is | :50:19. | :50:24. | |
will fall on deaf ears, because you have won with an enhanced majority | :50:25. | :50:29. | |
and clearly the electorate is pretty relaxed about those spending cuts. | :50:30. | :50:32. | |
Because we have delivered extraordinary efficiency. But how | :50:33. | :50:36. | |
are you going to go back to the government and say, we genuinely | :50:37. | :50:41. | |
need more money for adult social care? We have been given additional | :50:42. | :50:50. | |
money. What my -- a small amount. I'm sure this will be in the | :50:51. | :50:53. | |
Conservative manifesto, how we can move to a sustainable funding for | :50:54. | :50:57. | |
social care. That doesn't involve arguing over who pays social care | :50:58. | :51:03. | |
costs, when the NHS is free at the point of delivery, and the | :51:04. | :51:05. | |
opportunity for some form of funds that protect family wealth for the | :51:06. | :51:10. | |
unfortunate family. So you are hoping for a clear manifesto pledge | :51:11. | :51:15. | |
an adult social care? I have no idea what is in the manifesto. Theresa | :51:16. | :51:20. | |
May has committed to working with local government to find a sensible, | :51:21. | :51:23. | |
sustainable way forward to fund social care, and that will look at | :51:24. | :51:28. | |
other models throughout the world. Very briefly, hold that thought, | :51:29. | :51:33. | |
because I want to stare on this. Sarah Osborne, the Liberal Democrats | :51:34. | :51:37. | |
this morning have announced 1p on income tax to support the NHS and | :51:38. | :51:43. | |
adult social care. Some might say it is a naked bid for the grey vote, | :51:44. | :51:49. | |
but is this financially sound? Could this be tuition fees mark to? I | :51:50. | :51:52. | |
don't think so, we have been honest. You can't deliver good public | :51:53. | :51:58. | |
services, good NHS services and adult social care, without paying | :51:59. | :52:03. | |
for it. We are being clear, it should raise 6 billion, and that | :52:04. | :52:07. | |
isn't just for the grey vote. Everybody uses the NHS. So you think | :52:08. | :52:12. | |
this will play well when you are campaigning, that people will warm | :52:13. | :52:16. | |
to this? What about the triple lock, you are the first body to come out | :52:17. | :52:19. | |
and guarantee that the money come from? Nobody has launched their | :52:20. | :52:27. | |
manifesto but my understanding is that some of the funding will come | :52:28. | :52:34. | |
from reducing access to winter fuel allowance for those on high incomes. | :52:35. | :52:40. | |
And you support this? I do. There are still lots of pensioners in | :52:41. | :52:45. | |
poverty, especially in wrong areas. It's very expensive to live in rural | :52:46. | :52:50. | |
areas, because of the cuts to local government, bus services, Meals on | :52:51. | :52:55. | |
Wheels has disappeared. It is very expensive. It's also expensive for | :52:56. | :52:59. | |
young mums and dads to travel on buses and get to the children's | :53:00. | :53:02. | |
centres that have been cut across Kent and Medway. There have not been | :53:03. | :53:08. | |
cuts. We have not closed any in Kent. East Sussex. There have been | :53:09. | :53:16. | |
cuts. We have preserved and expended in many cases. Karting day in, day | :53:17. | :53:26. | |
out... Eventually be pips will week. Where is the point? We were at it | :53:27. | :53:32. | |
now. Said there is no problem with funding? I want to talk about | :53:33. | :53:40. | |
Labour. We have talked about Ukip. Labour's disaster at the elections | :53:41. | :53:45. | |
deserves some scrutiny. You held on to Crawley despite boundary changes, | :53:46. | :53:48. | |
but if that is the best that can be said about Labour's results in West | :53:49. | :53:53. | |
Sussex, you are a bad place. We haven't held seats outside Crawley | :53:54. | :53:58. | |
in West Sussex since 2009, so we have made the progress we would | :53:59. | :54:01. | |
like, but it isn't the disaster that some people have painted as the one | :54:02. | :54:03. | |
thing we learned in Crawley on thing we learned in Crawley on | :54:04. | :54:07. | |
Thursday was, if you go out there with a strong local message with | :54:08. | :54:10. | |
incumbent candidates working hard, you've got the opportunity to hold | :54:11. | :54:14. | |
on. The real risk for the Labour Party right now is too many | :54:15. | :54:18. | |
activists feeling defeated, too many activists saying, we have already | :54:19. | :54:21. | |
lost this. They have got it wrong. People have come out and we have | :54:22. | :54:25. | |
June the 8th, and we have a look to June the 8th, and we have a look to | :54:26. | :54:32. | |
do. On East Sussex and West Sussex, you made losses. On Kent, you make | :54:33. | :54:35. | |
significant losses, including your group leader. In Kent, where he once | :54:36. | :54:43. | |
had seven MPs, you now only have five out of 81 county councillors. | :54:44. | :54:47. | |
For a party that is in opposition in Westminster, that is a catastrophic | :54:48. | :54:52. | |
results, isn't it? Well, I'm not in charge of the party nationally, but | :54:53. | :54:58. | |
I would say, I'd have a good long think about our message and how it | :54:59. | :55:02. | |
related to people on the ground and what the results told me. But all | :55:03. | :55:06. | |
those Ukip votes up for grabs for the why didn't they come to you? | :55:07. | :55:14. | |
Reed the fact of the matter is we have politics increasingly built | :55:15. | :55:18. | |
around one party. The Labour Party, if there is one thing you can say | :55:19. | :55:22. | |
for it, it is that we went into this campaign honestly. There was no | :55:23. | :55:25. | |
spin. You can see this without candidates would you wouldn't do | :55:26. | :55:29. | |
half the things Jeremy said if he had a spin doctor. You | :55:30. | :55:31. | |
incredibly honest man who finally incredibly honest man | :55:32. | :55:33. | |
has the opportunity to go into this has the opportunity to go into this | :55:34. | :55:35. | |
election with a clear division between the parties for the actors | :55:36. | :55:40. | |
would they really want, time to prove it. But you know as well as I | :55:41. | :55:45. | |
do that people are not giving a ringing endorsement of your lead on | :55:46. | :55:48. | |
the doorstep, are they? They are joining the Lib Dems. We have had an | :55:49. | :55:54. | |
enormous number of Labour activists, experienced in local politics. The | :55:55. | :56:00. | |
biggest political party in Europe. The size of the party isn't the most | :56:01. | :56:06. | |
impressive feature. What do people want on June the 8th, to continue in | :56:07. | :56:10. | |
the current direction, which despite what Theresa May says... What are | :56:11. | :56:16. | |
they saying? I think I was the first council leader to call for him to | :56:17. | :56:20. | |
go, but we are going into a general election campaign, he is the leader | :56:21. | :56:23. | |
and he is offering a different approach to what we've seen before, | :56:24. | :56:26. | |
and people want politics to change so it's time for them to vote. I am | :56:27. | :56:33. | |
backing him. Let's come to Sarah. Until after the election? You are | :56:34. | :56:41. | |
now the official opposition on all of our councils, only by making tiny | :56:42. | :56:44. | |
gains. It seems as though you haven't been forgiven for your time | :56:45. | :56:48. | |
in coalition government. That isn't what I have found on the doorstep. | :56:49. | :56:52. | |
People have moved on. And I think the vote share across the country | :56:53. | :56:56. | |
was up 7% for us, which is significant. We have won or the | :56:57. | :57:01. | |
target seats we set out to fight, and we have been a very effective | :57:02. | :57:07. | |
opposition. I was talking to Peter about why they haven't scooped up | :57:08. | :57:12. | |
more of the Ukip votes. You had the whole of the anti-Brexit vote, that | :57:13. | :57:16. | |
agenda to go out, and you only make small net gains. Do people even know | :57:17. | :57:21. | |
the Liberal Democrats' position on Brexit, especially when candidates | :57:22. | :57:26. | |
like Stephen Lloyd in Eastbourne are refusing to toe the party line? It's | :57:27. | :57:32. | |
very hard to get the message out more, to get the same amount of | :57:33. | :57:35. | |
media coverage. There has been a lot more media coverage of Ukip, even | :57:36. | :57:39. | |
though they have only had one MP, and now none and no councillors | :57:40. | :57:44. | |
either. It's difficult to get the message across. We do it | :57:45. | :57:47. | |
predominantly with leaflets and speaking to people on the doorstep, | :57:48. | :57:51. | |
and that message is getting home. Labour activists are joining us, the | :57:52. | :57:54. | |
Green Party are getting behind the Lib Dems' policy position on Brexit. | :57:55. | :58:02. | |
We still have four weeks to go before the elections and more and | :58:03. | :58:06. | |
more people will know. Paul, we talked a little bit about the | :58:07. | :58:14. | |
Conservatives and social care. You have also talked a lot about funding | :58:15. | :58:19. | |
schools properly, in particular rural primaries where are the | :58:20. | :58:22. | |
Conservatives on this? Jeremy Corbyn has promised to reverse the savings | :58:23. | :58:27. | |
imposed on schools over the next three years. Where is your position | :58:28. | :58:34. | |
on this? On the announcement of the election, there was a consultation | :58:35. | :58:38. | |
on fair funding for schools. That was out for consultation. I think | :58:39. | :58:41. | |
that needs rethinking. I don't think it was eating the right spots. The | :58:42. | :58:45. | |
unfinished was still in some of the indicative budgets. So you want a | :58:46. | :58:53. | |
pledge in your manifesto on that? I want that their funding outcome | :58:54. | :58:58. | |
looked at. It is part way through, no decisions have been made yet. I | :58:59. | :59:02. | |
think that education must be a top priority for future funding, against | :59:03. | :59:03. | |
a massively increasing population of a massively increasing population of | :59:04. | :59:08. | |
young people needing school places. Archer only a few seconds before we | :59:09. | :59:14. | |
had to round up the other news. Brexit is being pushed on the | :59:15. | :59:17. | |
national agenda. What is the big issue in West Sussex? In Crawley, | :59:18. | :59:25. | |
education. Passing on the cuts to local government, we are fed up of | :59:26. | :59:30. | |
it. I think the NHS and social care and possibly overdevelopment but | :59:31. | :59:36. | |
that feeds into education, onto the roads. It all feeds into each other | :59:37. | :59:40. | |
in the end. Before we go, just time for some of the other news you may | :59:41. | :59:42. | |
have missed. The leader of the Liberal Democrats | :59:43. | :59:47. | |
says he is happy for one of his candidates in a marginal seat | :59:48. | :59:50. | |
to contradict the Lib Dems' Stephen Lloyd, who is standing | :59:51. | :59:53. | |
in Eastbourne, told this programme that he would not be voting | :59:54. | :59:56. | |
for a second EU referendum Tim Farron was speaking | :59:57. | :59:59. | |
during his campaign visit in Lewes. Having an independent mind | :00:00. | :00:05. | |
and acting on behalf of your constituents is something | :00:06. | :00:07. | |
that we encourage, and I'm very clear that, if people want to vote | :00:08. | :00:09. | |
to give the British people the final say on the deal, which | :00:10. | :00:13. | |
I think they must do, then the Liberal Democrats | :00:14. | :00:15. | |
are the only choice you've got. Meanwhile, the Prime Minister | :00:16. | :00:18. | |
was also on the campaign trail, this time making a stop | :00:19. | :00:21. | |
in Eastbourne to support the Conservative candidate, | :00:22. | :00:23. | |
Caroline Ansell, who is defending And a proposal by Medway Council to | :00:24. | :00:25. | |
close all 19 children's centres has been met with dismay | :00:26. | :00:31. | |
by the Labour opposition. The Conservative-run council | :00:32. | :00:33. | |
says the plan's needed because of a change in government | :00:34. | :00:36. | |
funding for early years. Instead, it wants to open up | :00:37. | :00:39. | |
four new super-hubs, which it says will better target | :00:40. | :00:41. | |
families most in need. That's all we've got time | :00:42. | :00:50. | |
for from the South-East this week. My thanks to our guests for today - | :00:51. | :00:52. | |
Sarah Osborne, Richard Palmer, I'll be back next week, | :00:53. | :00:55. | |
when we kick off a series of special programmes covering all the big | :00:56. | :00:59. | |
issues for the general housing associations and investment, | :01:00. | :01:15. | |
but we have run out of time, thank you. Andrew. | :01:16. | :01:25. | |
Four weeks to go until polling day on the 8th of June, what will the | :01:26. | :01:32. | |
party strategies be for the remaining four weeks? Let's begin | :01:33. | :01:36. | |
with the Conservatives. Do they just try to continue to play it safe for | :01:37. | :01:42. | |
four weeks? Yes, with this important qualification. Theresa May Corp this | :01:43. | :01:46. | |
election to get her own personal mandate partly, partly because she | :01:47. | :01:51. | |
thought she would win big but to get her own personal mandate. Therefore, | :01:52. | :01:57. | |
she needs to define it. In her own interests and to do with | :01:58. | :02:01. | |
accountability to the country. So clearly, they will not take risks | :02:02. | :02:05. | |
when they are so far ahead in the polls. What they do say in the | :02:06. | :02:06. | |
manifesto matters in terms of the space that she has in | :02:07. | :02:13. | |
the coming years to define her leadership against David Cameron 's. | :02:14. | :02:18. | |
She is a free figure, partly on the basis of what she says as to how big | :02:19. | :02:23. | |
she wins. They cannot just play it safe and repeat their mantra of | :02:24. | :02:33. | |
strong and stable leadership, if she is going to claim her own mandate, | :02:34. | :02:38. | |
they need the top policy? Yes, and what is unusual about this is that | :02:39. | :02:42. | |
the manifesto matters far more because of what they need to do with | :02:43. | :02:46. | |
it afterwards, than in terms of whether it is going to win anybody | :02:47. | :02:50. | |
over now. Clearly, the strategy is yes, we do have two layout out a few | :02:51. | :02:54. | |
things, there are interesting debates as to whether, for example, | :02:55. | :02:58. | |
they will still commit to this ambition of reducing immigration to | :02:59. | :03:02. | |
the tens of thousands, we do not know the answer yet. It is a | :03:03. | :03:06. | |
question on whether she is setting herself up for difficulties later | :03:07. | :03:12. | |
on. It will be a short manifesto, I would venture to guess? It is in her | :03:13. | :03:17. | |
interests to be as noncommittal as possible, that argues for a short | :03:18. | :03:22. | |
manifesto but what does strike me about the Conservative campaign, | :03:23. | :03:26. | |
aside from the ambiguity on policy, is how personal it is. I think | :03:27. | :03:30. | |
Theresa May, in her most recent speech, referred to "My local | :03:31. | :03:35. | |
candidates", rather than Parliamentary candidates, very much | :03:36. | :03:38. | |
framing it as a presidential candidate in France or the USA. Not | :03:39. | :03:45. | |
a rational on her part. Everything I hear from the MPs on the ground and | :03:46. | :03:50. | |
the focus groups being done by the parties, is that a big chunk of the | :03:51. | :03:53. | |
population personally identify with her. If you can wrap up Middle | :03:54. | :03:57. | |
England into a physical object and embody it in a person, it would be | :03:58. | :04:02. | |
her. Although Jeremy Corbyn's unpopularity accounts for a big | :04:03. | :04:06. | |
slice of her popularity, she has done a good job of bonding with the | :04:07. | :04:10. | |
public. We never saw that coming! But you may well be right. That is | :04:11. | :04:15. | |
happening now. Labour say it wants the Shadow Chancellor John McDonnell | :04:16. | :04:19. | |
to play a more prominent role in the Labour campaign, he was on The | :04:20. | :04:22. | |
Andrew Marr Show this morning and he was asked if he was a Marxist, he | :04:23. | :04:26. | |
denied that he was. It surprised me as I had seen tape from before | :04:27. | :04:31. | |
saying that he was proud of it. Let's look now and then. Are you a | :04:32. | :04:39. | |
Marxist? I believe that there is a lot to learn... Yes or no? I believe | :04:40. | :04:43. | |
that there is a lot to learn from reading capital, that is recommended | :04:44. | :04:48. | |
not only by me but measuring economists as well. I also believe | :04:49. | :04:52. | |
that in the long tradition of the Labour Party... We need to demand | :04:53. | :05:00. | |
systemic change. I am a Marxist. This is a classic crisis of the | :05:01. | :05:04. | |
economy. A capitalist crisis. I've been waiting for this for a | :05:05. | :05:10. | |
generation! That was from about four years ago. No, I'm not a Marxist, | :05:11. | :05:15. | |
yes, I am a Marxist... I've been waiting for the Marxist revolution | :05:16. | :05:19. | |
my whole life... Does this kind of thing matter? Yes, but in fairness, | :05:20. | :05:23. | |
I think he is a really good interviewee. The Shadow Cabinet have | :05:24. | :05:29. | |
untested figures in a national campaign. None have ever been | :05:30. | :05:34. | |
exposed at any level to a national media campaign that they are about | :05:35. | :05:38. | |
to experience. He is the best interviewee. In fairness to him, | :05:39. | :05:43. | |
when he gave that clip four years ago, I bet he never dream that he | :05:44. | :05:48. | |
would be in a senior front bench position. But the background is | :05:49. | :05:53. | |
clear. They are of the left, and I think they would all have described | :05:54. | :05:55. | |
it. Jeremy Corbyn would have done, he is close to being like Tony Benn. | :05:56. | :06:02. | |
There are about four Labour campaign is being fought in this election. | :06:03. | :06:08. | |
Their campaign, the old Shadow Cabinet, campaigning in | :06:09. | :06:11. | |
constituencies, but not identifying with that campaign. There is the | :06:12. | :06:16. | |
former Labour leader Tony Blair. Is it damaging? I think so, if they | :06:17. | :06:21. | |
could be damaged any further, I could see all of the Labour MPs with | :06:22. | :06:26. | |
their heads in their hands. What I am hearing from Labour MPs is that | :06:27. | :06:29. | |
there is not one of them who do not feel that they have a horrendous | :06:30. | :06:33. | |
battle on their hands. These will be very individual local campaigns, | :06:34. | :06:37. | |
where local MPs are winning despite the party leadership and not because | :06:38. | :06:41. | |
of it. Already, talk is turning to what happens next. Is there anyway | :06:42. | :06:48. | |
that Jeremy Corbyn, giving a horrendous set of general election | :06:49. | :06:53. | |
results as many anticipate, may stay on all the same? It is not clear | :06:54. | :06:59. | |
that even if the polls are right, that Mr Corbyn will go? John | :07:00. | :07:03. | |
McDonnell implied it might not be the case but previously, he said it | :07:04. | :07:08. | |
would be. What do you make of reports that the Labour strategy is | :07:09. | :07:13. | |
not, I cannot quite believe I am saying this, not to win seats but | :07:14. | :07:16. | |
maximise a share of the vote. If they do better than Ed Miliband with | :07:17. | :07:22. | |
30.5% of the vote, they believe they live to fight another day? Yes, it | :07:23. | :07:27. | |
reminded me of Tony Benn's speech after the 1983 election where they | :07:28. | :07:30. | |
said as bad as the Parliamentary defeat was there were 8 million | :07:31. | :07:35. | |
votes for socialism. A big section of public opinion voted for that | :07:36. | :07:43. | |
manifesto. I wonder whether that is Corbyn's supporters best chance of | :07:44. | :07:48. | |
holding onto power. Whether they can say that those votes are a platform | :07:49. | :07:53. | |
on which we can build. That said, even moderate Labour MPs and | :07:54. | :07:57. | |
desperate for a quick leadership contest. I hear a lot of them say | :07:58. | :08:01. | |
that they would like to leave it for one year. Maybe have Tom Watson as | :08:02. | :08:05. | |
an acting Labour leader. He would still have a mandate. Give the top | :08:06. | :08:09. | |
party a chance to regroup and get rid of some of its problems and | :08:10. | :08:13. | |
decide where it stands on policy. Most importantly, for potential | :08:14. | :08:17. | |
candidates to show what they are made of, rather than lurching | :08:18. | :08:20. | |
straight into an Yvette Cooper Coronation. 30 seconds on the | :08:21. | :08:25. | |
Liberal Democrats, their strategy was to mop up the Remain vote. | :08:26. | :08:33. | |
Uncertain about the Brexit party in demise. Ukip. The remain as have a | :08:34. | :08:40. | |
dilemma, the little Democrats are not a strong enough vessel with 89 | :08:41. | :08:46. | |
MPs to risk all ongoing for them -- the Liberal Democrats. Labour do not | :08:47. | :08:51. | |
know where they stand on Brexit. There is not a robust alternative | :08:52. | :08:56. | |
vessel for what is now a pro-Brexit Conservative Party. At the moment. | :08:57. | :09:04. | |
Four weeks to go, but not for France... | :09:05. | :09:06. | |
France has been voting since early this morning, and we should get | :09:07. | :09:09. | |
a first estimate of who will be the country's next President | :09:10. | :09:12. | |
Just to warn you there are some flashing images coming up. | :09:13. | :09:16. | |
The choice in France is between a centre-left liberal | :09:17. | :09:18. | |
reformer Emmanuel Macron and a right-wing nationalist | :09:19. | :09:20. | |
Marine Le Pen - both have been casting their votes this morning. | :09:21. | :09:22. | |
The two candidates topped a field of 11 presidential | :09:23. | :09:25. | |
hopefuls in the first round of elections last month. | :09:26. | :09:27. | |
The campaign has been marked by its unpredictability, | :09:28. | :09:29. | |
and in a final twist on Friday evening, just before | :09:30. | :09:35. | |
campaigning officially ended, Mr Macron's En Marche! group said | :09:36. | :09:37. | |
it had been the victim of a "massive" hack, | :09:38. | :09:43. | |
with a trove of documents released online. | :09:44. | :09:45. | |
The Macron team said real documents were mixed up with fake ones, | :09:46. | :09:48. | |
and electoral authorities warned media and the public that spreading | :09:49. | :09:50. | |
details of the leaks would breach strict election rules. | :09:51. | :10:01. | |
I'm joined now from Paris by the journalist | :10:02. | :10:02. | |
As I left Paris recently, everybody told me that there was the consensus | :10:03. | :10:16. | |
that Mr Macron would win, and win pretty comfortable you. Is there any | :10:17. | :10:21. | |
reason to doubt that? -- pretty comfortably. I don't think so, there | :10:22. | :10:26. | |
have been so many people left and right, former candidates who have | :10:27. | :10:31. | |
decided that it was more important to vote for Macron, even if it was | :10:32. | :10:35. | |
agreed with him, then run the risk of having Marine Le Pen as | :10:36. | :10:40. | |
president. I think the spread is now 20 points, 60% to Macron, 40% to Le | :10:41. | :10:45. | |
Pen. So outside of the margin of error that it would take something | :10:46. | :10:51. | |
huge for this to be observed. If the polls are right and Mr Macron wins, | :10:52. | :10:55. | |
he has to put together a government, and in May there is a Coronation, | :10:56. | :11:02. | |
then he faces parliamentary elections in June and could face a | :11:03. | :11:07. | |
fractured parliament where he does not have a clear majority for his | :11:08. | :11:13. | |
reforms. He could then faced difficulties in getting his | :11:14. | :11:17. | |
programme through? I think that right now, with how things are | :11:18. | :11:22. | |
looking, considering you have one half of the Republican party, the | :11:23. | :11:26. | |
Conservative Party, they are making clear sides, not only that they want | :11:27. | :11:32. | |
to support Macron but are supporting him actively. It means looking at | :11:33. | :11:38. | |
the equivalent of the German party, the great coalition. Depending on | :11:39. | :11:42. | |
how many seats established parties keep in the house committee may very | :11:43. | :11:45. | |
well have a Republican Prime Minister, rather than having an | :11:46. | :11:58. | |
adversarial MP, he may have someone who is relatively unknown outside of | :11:59. | :12:05. | |
France, and a young woman. Contended that lost the Parez mayorship three | :12:06. | :12:11. | |
years ago. She is a scientist and has been secretary of state. She | :12:12. | :12:17. | |
would be an interesting coalition Prime Minister. Finally, Marine Le | :12:18. | :12:23. | |
Pen, if she goes down to defeat a night, does she have the stomach and | :12:24. | :12:28. | |
ambition, and the energy, to try it all again in 2022? She has all of | :12:29. | :12:36. | |
that. The question is, would they let her? How badly would she lose? | :12:37. | :12:43. | |
Her niece, now 27, a hard-working and steady person, unlike Marine Le | :12:44. | :12:50. | |
Pen, who flunked her do paid -- debate, her niece may decide that | :12:51. | :12:54. | |
2022 is her turn. Yet another Le Pen! All right, we will see. Just | :12:55. | :13:02. | |
five years to wait, but only a few hours until the results of the | :13:03. | :13:04. | |
election tonight. And we will get the exit polls here | :13:05. | :13:09. | |
on the BBC. Given the exit polls will give as a pretty fair | :13:10. | :13:13. | |
indication of what the result is going to be tonight. That will be on | :13:14. | :13:15. | |
BBC news. That's all for today. The Daily Politics will cover every | :13:16. | :13:19. | |
turn of this election campaign, And we're back here on BBC One | :13:20. | :13:21. | |
at our usual time Next Sunday. Remember - if it's Sunday, | :13:22. | :13:26. | |
it's the Sunday Politics. Our crack team of experts | :13:27. | :13:28. | |
use pioneering research ..to how to help your pet | :13:29. | :14:17. | |
lose weight. | :14:18. | :14:20. |