19/05/2013 Sunday Politics South West

one of those Tory MPs who wanted Europe in the Queen's Speech.

And ministers are told they must do more to protect our railway from

Apology for the loss of subtitles for 2161 seconds

Hello. Coming up on the Sunday Politics in the South West: The

warning that ministers are not doing enough to stop the region being cut

off by extreme weather. And for the next 20 minutes, I am

joined by the Conservative MP Mel Stride and the Labour peer Lord

Whitty. Welcome both of you to the programme. Let's start with this

week's jobs figures, which once again showed a fall in the number of

people out of work and claiming benefit. Significantly the claimant

count is down year on year in every part of the South West.

This appears to be good news. face of it, it is good news. But

there are odd things with the statistics. Employment figures are

going up and down. A lot of new jobs are very part time, even zero hours.

People are moving into self-employment. I think we should

welcome it strongly. We need proper jobs, serious jobs, better going to

be long-term for people of the South West and the of the country.

underemployment is a problem in your constituency? I don't think so. A

job as important, as opposed to being out of work. We have seen a

movement from part-time to full-time work as a trend. We have seen a

movement from temporary to permanent work as well. We have seen women in

work increase. That masks these figures of employment because

actually unemployment has risen and yet the numbers of people claiming

has actually gone down. If you look at the number that have been

unemployed over the previous period last year, the record has not been

too bad. Most economists have been slightly confused by that, but it is

one of the aspect of our record that I think has been more positive than

negative. Unemployment hasn't played as big a part in this recession as

the 1980s. Thankfully employers are hanging on experienced Labour. But

we also have these odd sort of choirs eyedrops the economy. --

quasi-jobs. But some of these jobs are vulnerable in terms of looking

after your family. The European drum has been banging

away all week at Westminster. Among the Conservative MPs pressing David

Cameron for a more solid commitment to an in-out vote were six from the

South West. Our reporter has been getting reaction to the row from

business people in Cornwall. Some politicians think it is the

burning question. Europe, in or out? In, out, shake it all about.

Entrepreneurs are meeting here to swap ideas, hungry to grow their

businesses. Export is a key theme. Europe is a hot topic. We have many

small businesses that need to collaborate together to get exports

anyway. To put anything that puts that at risk is crazy. More than any

other county in the country, we have 22,000 small businesses that need

all the help they can get. As far as having a common market is concerned,

it makes perfect sense for businesses to be trading on a bigger

field. Ultimately, what we have now is not what we voted for when we

first voted to join the Common market. We now have federal Europe

by the back door and the aspects that Europe bring our less

palatable. In Cornwall, Europe is not just about trade, fishing quotas

and farming subsidies. The Eden Project, combined universities and

Newquay airport I've all had a slice of �1 billion of European grants

since 1999. There is more cash on the way. Despite this, UKIP polled

15% of the vote in local elections in Cornwall. It is about economy and

jobs. I am not a xenophobic not. I am speaking for our country and the

vote for UKIP showed it. We have to wake up in this place. Richard Drax

was one of six Tory MPs in our region to join the gang of rebels

urging for a stronger position on the in out referendum. The Prime

Minister has beefed up his promise of a vote by 2017. It was clearly

not enough to make this question go away. The hokey corky. In, out.

That's what it's all about. Joining us to discuss this we have

Councillor Steph McWilliam, leader of the UKIP group on Cornwall

Council. I wanted to send the message that we could not have a

commitment from the Coalition Government in the Queens speech to

have legislation in this Parliament to undermine our commitment as a

party to have a referendum by no later than 2017. I think this issue

is extremely important. Hasn't Europe proved a disaster is issued

for the Tories generally? Especially for factor in the previous

government. Cameron has said in the past that he would like the Tories

to stop banging on about Europe. think we have arrived in a strong

position which is now that we have a clear sense of direction as a

party. The Prime Minister has made it clear that we have a commitment

to a referendum. If there is a majority government elected, we will

attempt to push for a referendum. I will send the message through my

voting and also with this amendment. It undermines the government. You

could have waited for the Private Members' Bill. I don't believe so.

There was not a 3-way split. People voted for it or abstained. It is all

part of getting that message across to the public. Be under no

illusions. If a Conservative government is elected in 2015, there

will be a referendum before the halfway point of that parliament.

That is a problem for UKIP. Cameron is saying that the only way to get a

referendum is to vote Tory. Where does that leave UKIP? What I heard

on the doorstep throughout the campaign is that most of the voters

just don't believe anything they are told. At least with the UK

Independence Party, they know what they would be getting. We have the

European elections next year. That will be really interesting to test

public opinion. This idea that if there is a Tory majority, and if

they are successful at renegotiating, then there will be a

referendum in 2017 is not good enough. People are not happy with

that. They want a say and they want it now. Where do you stand on this?

I am a strong pro-European. I would vote yes in almost any

circumstances. What we have now is David Cameron committed to a

referendum in future and we don't know the outcomes of the negotiating

brief. It is meaningless. The exact position of the Labour Party will

probably not be determined until the time of the European elections.

Don't people want to know now? personal view is that the situation

amongst the public on Europe means we have to have a referendum at some

point. I suspect that will be the position of the Labour Party. But

not the referendum that either David Cameron or Mel and his gang on the

backbenches have left us with because that is pretty meaningless

to the average member of the fittest voting UKIP is that they will assist

labour and the Liberal Democrats in defeating Conservatives in marginal

seats. Will you vote in or out?I want to hear the debate. The

sensible thing to do, and this is where I think the Prime Minister is

right, is we need to have a full and proper debate about what it means to

be in and what it means to be out. Steph, from your point of view,

Cardinal has done very well out of Europe. �1 billion for projects such

as the University of Cornwall and the Eden Project. Surely it is not

the right thing for Cornwall to be out of Europe? What we have to

remember is that the EU doesn't have any money of its own. It only has

the money it has already taken from us. The way I try and explain this

is to hold up a �10 note and say it will anybody give me �26 for this

note? I have not yet had any takers. It relies on the government handing

the money in our direction, rather than to other parts of the country.

That is to do with the MPs that we send to Westminster. In Cornwall, we

have six MPs who are all members of the Coalition Government. That their

job to represent the interests of Cornwall and if they could keep all

the money here we would be able to do more. The other point I want to

make is that when we look at Cornwall's eligibility to all this

European funding, it is because we are below 75% of the EU average GDP.

We have been receiving this money for a very long time. We are still

eligible for it for some time to come. Because we are still below

75%. Whilst we are end, we are still eligible because we are still less

than 75% of GDP, even though a lot of other countries have joined so

the EU average has gone down and we are still not at 75%. This money is

being misspent. What would it mean for the South West? Cornwall have

had a much better reception in Brussels than in Westminster.

long as we are still in the EU, we will be fighting for is not European

funding as we can get. It is our money and we would like it back. It

is just that we would like all of it back. Farmers have done well out of

Europe. What would you tell them if they lost their funding? I think

there have been many challenges. If we are looking at this particular

area of this debate, it is about not whether assistance is given to

farmers, it is about who is giving it. It is quite conceivable that

after renegotiation we might end up in a situation we have control over

raising revenues for transport in the United Kingdom. We need to have

the debate to settle these discussions. We have doing that

particular debate just now. Thank you. -- we have to end.

The South West's transport links are looking a little more precarious

this week with Flybe announcing a possible sell-off of its runway

slots at Gatwick Airport. There was some good news for the rail network.

The Transport Secretary took the train to Dawlish and promised to

safeguard the mainline from the waves. But it is still not clear

what will happen to the line if sea levels rise and some say our railway

Stormy weather. Services along this track are often vulnerable to the

weather. But it is a matters valuable for tourism. Over the last

decade, Network Rail have invested �8.5 million on defences. They

invest �500,000 a year to ensure the sea wall at Dawlish remains intact.

With sea levels expected to rise and more extreme weather events

predicted over the coming decades, the future of this route hangs on

some significant government cash. This week, the secretary of State

for transport travelled to Dawlish with the local MP. There are issues

in terms of safeguarding the flying. It is important and there have been

problems. Part of my visit here today is to speak to network rail to

ensure we put in the right resilience to make sure this line is

secure. It is vital we ensure this line is sustainable for the longer

term. Realistically, there is nothing else affordable as an

alternative. In terms of economic payback, it is crucial. A report

carried out by the previous government looked at an alternative

railway line. The scheme is estimated to cost �100 million and

it was deemed to be an viable. are powerful images. The work we

have done shows that that will be okayed for the next three or four

decades. My worry is should we be focusing every bit as much on

getting it right on other stretches of the line where Exeter can get

marooned? That is what happened last year. The line was closed for

several days. A �30 million programme to improve resilience is

underway. Network Rail see it will not prevent flooding. The visit of

the Transport Secretary has been seen as a positive sign that more

investment will follow. But should we be worried that the region will

get enough to ensure we are not cut off again?

There are further discussions going on about the longer term and the

kind of investment that may need to be put into the South West to ensure

that our railways are resilient to function effectively. In the shorter

term, but we have acute problems of flooding, there is a lot of

investment. 30 million will not solve the problems, but it will

improve resilience. When flooding occurs, the real we can be brought

back into use more quickly. We're taking some of the signalling

cabling and raising it so it doesn't get swamped by water. We were cut

off for several weeks from Exeter. This is very serious. The government

takes this very seriously. That is why the Secretary of State was down

here. Ministers are looking at Network Rail and DEFRA and this

whole issue. Do you think enough money is being spent to sustain the

railway? I think rather more systematic money is required by

Network Rail and rail operators in the terminating the resilience of

the South West rate. It is a particularly vulnerable one. Mel is

right that we should tackle the stress points on that line. That

will require quite a lot of money, but I think that is the way to do

it, rather than divert the line all the way around. Are we seeing enough

money in our region as opposed to projects like HS2? If you include

HS2 in your calculations, the answer is no. The volume of traffic is

substantially greater in the Midlands than in the South West.

There is a social reason for keeping better transport links with the

South West as well as the rest of the country. I think the South West

has missed out, to be honest. here would say we have missed out.

It doesn't seem right that a fraction of the money on HS2 could

not be brought down here. question is, who's what did miss out

on? 13 years of Labour government. And the previous 18 years of Tory

government. What about the other route that was looked into. That

would be good for your patch? would and I can't be selfish all my

life. I would love �100 million spent on a route in my constituency.

There are problems that could be done with the Okehampton railway.

But I agree that the level of investment involved there in the

short to medium term will be too onerous. Thank you very much.

Now our regular round-up of the political week in 60 seconds.

A year after the so-called pasty tax was watered down, bakers have been

counting the cost to their businesses. I am charging 20% VAT

when I reheat these but I am not charging the customers. Concern over

the loss of our search and rescue helicopter has been referred to the

ombudsman. Cornwall Council have launched an investigation into new

comments made by a councillor where he appeared to link disabled

children with deformed lambs. believe in the sanctity of life.

Dorset's Police Commissioner revealed he is talking to a private

company about sponsoring his force. There is no more money and we have

to think outside the box. Vault at 16 were proposed by the former

Cornwall MP Lord Tyler. The Police Commissioner of Dorset

has revealed he is talking to a private company about sponsoring his

force. We don't know yet which private company. What is your view?

The reason he is doing that is because the resources made available

to him by central government have been severely cut. They are thinking

of closing local police stations. I don't think it is a particularly

sensible alternative, but I understand the pressure he is under.

Even and Somerset did it some years ago. We saw the local for Threshers

off-licence on the van. Was that acceptable? It is better than

Threshers actually policing themselves. But I don't think it is

sensible. Police forces are doing a magnificent job in making more go

further. Crime is down 10%. Is it a good idea? Do you support this? I

haven't seen the specifics. It seems slightly daft to me in general terms

because I think the most important thing about the police is that they

have the confidence of the public and the public sees them as being

entirely impartial and answering to no private company. If you ask

people whether they would rather see a police van with a local ordinal