Browse content similar to 23/04/2017. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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It's Sunday afternoon - this is the Sunday Politics. | :00:35. | :00:37. | |
Jeremy Corbyn wants to give everyone in Britain four | :00:38. | :00:40. | |
extra bank holidays - but is the Labour leader up | :00:41. | :00:43. | |
to being Prime Minister if he wins the election in just | :00:44. | :00:45. | |
Theresa May says she wants a stronger hand to deliver Brexit - | :00:46. | :00:52. | |
how will the Conservatives go about getting the bigger | :00:53. | :00:54. | |
I'll be asking Party Chairman, Patrick McLoughlin. | :00:55. | :01:00. | |
And I've been in Paris where voters are going to the polls in first | :01:01. | :01:05. | |
round of the French Presidential election - what could be the impact | :01:06. | :01:08. | |
on the EU and Brexit of this most unpredictable of contests? | :01:09. | :01:11. | |
In the South West, the region's army of Conservative MPs face | :01:12. | :01:14. | |
invasion from an alliance of Lib Dems and Greens who say | :01:15. | :01:17. | |
Will the Remain majority punish the Tories for the decision? | :01:18. | :01:22. | |
Or feel they may not like it but the Tories | :01:23. | :01:24. | |
And with me has always ready for the marathon task of covering a snap | :01:25. | :01:39. | |
general election, even working on bank holidays, the best and | :01:40. | :01:42. | |
brightest political panel in the business. David Wooding, Polly | :01:43. | :01:43. | |
Toynbee and Toby Young. So Labour's big announcement this | :01:44. | :01:47. | |
morning was a crowd pleaser. Four more rainy bank | :01:48. | :01:49. | |
holidays to enjoy - one for each of the patron saints | :01:50. | :01:51. | |
of England, Scotland, But Mr Corbyn probably won't be | :01:52. | :01:53. | |
getting the time off work if he wins And on The Andrew Marr Show this | :01:54. | :02:00. | |
morning he was asked what he would do as Prime Minister | :02:01. | :02:04. | |
if the security services asked him to authorise a drone strike | :02:05. | :02:07. | |
on the leader of Islamic State. What I'd tell them is, | :02:08. | :02:10. | |
give me the information you've got, tell me how accurate that is, | :02:11. | :02:14. | |
tell me what you I'm asking you about decisions you | :02:15. | :02:16. | |
would take as Prime Minister. Can I take you back | :02:17. | :02:25. | |
to the whole point? Is the objective | :02:26. | :02:28. | |
to start more strikes that may kill many innocent | :02:29. | :02:31. | |
people, as has happened? Do you think killing | :02:32. | :02:34. | |
the leader of Isis would be I think the leader of Isis not | :02:35. | :02:36. | |
being around would be helpful, and I'm no supporter or defender | :02:37. | :02:45. | |
in any way of Isis. But I would also argue that | :02:46. | :02:47. | |
the bombing campaign has killed a of whom were virtually prisoners of | :02:48. | :02:51. | |
Isis. So you've got to think | :02:52. | :02:54. | |
about these things. Mr Corbyn earlier. David, is his | :02:55. | :03:01. | |
reply refreshing damaging? It is damaging. He has clearly been | :03:02. | :03:06. | |
freaked to the fire already in the first week, there will be lots of | :03:07. | :03:10. | |
questions on his suitability as a leader and the damage it could cause | :03:11. | :03:13. | |
to our national security over the weeks ahead and Andrew Marr has cut | :03:14. | :03:17. | |
straight to the chase here. The other thing, of course, is the | :03:18. | :03:21. | |
letters of last resort, one of the first duties of a Prime Minister | :03:22. | :03:24. | |
when he walks into No 10 is to sign these letters on his own, on or -- | :03:25. | :03:30. | |
or on her own in a room, a very lonely moment, to decide whether he | :03:31. | :03:33. | |
should press the nuclear button and that goes in the Vanguard submarines | :03:34. | :03:37. | |
and is opened in the event of a strike and he has dodged a question | :03:38. | :03:41. | |
so many times. One must wonder what he would do that. He has to make | :03:42. | :03:45. | |
these decisions as Prime Minister. On the Isis point, refreshing or | :03:46. | :03:50. | |
damaging? It sure is his base, the people who support him, that's the | :03:51. | :03:55. | |
sort of thing they support info and maybe his tactic is that's all he's | :03:56. | :03:57. | |
going to get, that is what the polls seem to suggest, in which case they | :03:58. | :04:01. | |
will be pleased, and say yes, the man is a man for these who doesn't | :04:02. | :04:05. | |
press buttons and shoot people down. But if you want to win you have to | :04:06. | :04:11. | |
deal with your own weaknesses and reach out to other people. I think | :04:12. | :04:15. | |
most people would say that's not somebody who could defend the | :04:16. | :04:21. | |
country. I wonder if he was being totally honest in saying he would | :04:22. | :04:24. | |
consider it he would ask for more information. He has previously been | :04:25. | :04:29. | |
on the record as being against drone strikes in principle, he's | :04:30. | :04:32. | |
campaigned against them, he wants to abolish drones. I think Andrew Marr | :04:33. | :04:36. | |
let him off saying it was a drone strike rather than a Navy SEAL or | :04:37. | :04:40. | |
SAS operation and he had the fact that they could be collateral | :04:41. | :04:42. | |
damage. We that's not his position because he condemned the | :04:43. | :04:49. | |
assassination of Osama Bin Laden even though there was no collateral | :04:50. | :04:52. | |
damage. David is right on the Trident point, he fetched the | :04:53. | :04:55. | |
question. We heard Niall Griffiths on this very show saying Trident, | :04:56. | :05:01. | |
the renewal of Trident, would be in the next Labour Party manifesto. It | :05:02. | :05:04. | |
turns out now we don't know and when he was asked he said that remains to | :05:05. | :05:08. | |
be seen, his re-opened a can of worms. What he has said about | :05:09. | :05:12. | |
Trident which was extraordinary was, we will rebuild the submarines but | :05:13. | :05:16. | |
not have any nukes on them which is expensive and useless. And of course | :05:17. | :05:20. | |
the Labour Party were forced soon after that interview to put out a | :05:21. | :05:23. | |
statement saying it is Labour Party policy to renew Trident. So where | :05:24. | :05:29. | |
are we? Do we know what the party's policy is? It is to renew Trident | :05:30. | :05:33. | |
but he has started this review which involves looking at it all again. We | :05:34. | :05:39. | |
know he is a unilateralist to start with but whether he can force this | :05:40. | :05:43. | |
through is dubious. Does it matter, though, if the party policy is in | :05:44. | :05:48. | |
favour of Trident, if the leader is not? The potential Prime Minister is | :05:49. | :05:52. | |
not? They split three ways when they went to vote on it in the Commons. | :05:53. | :05:55. | |
The party agreed they were pro-Trident and when it came to the | :05:56. | :05:59. | |
vote they split three ways. I think it's difficult for them, it's always | :06:00. | :06:04. | |
been a really difficult issue for Labour. The question is whether you | :06:05. | :06:08. | |
want to seal off your negatives, whether you really want to try and | :06:09. | :06:12. | |
reach out to people. There are an awful lot of people who will like | :06:13. | :06:15. | |
what he said, there are an awful lot of people that think we have been | :06:16. | :06:20. | |
involved in terrible wars, we have wasted a lot of money and blood and | :06:21. | :06:23. | |
let's just get back from the whole thing, let's retreat from the world | :06:24. | :06:28. | |
and not try punching above our weight. There is something to be | :06:29. | :06:31. | |
said for that and it is a reasonable argument. He's been true to himself | :06:32. | :06:36. | |
on this. I think he is and Polly is right, lots of people will agree | :06:37. | :06:40. | |
with him, not enough to win a general election, the latest ComRes | :06:41. | :06:44. | |
poll shows Tories on 50% and Labour on 25 and as my colleague James | :06:45. | :06:47. | |
Forsyth in the Spectator said if this was a boxing match it would | :06:48. | :06:51. | |
have been stopped by now by the revelry. We are not stopping, we are | :06:52. | :06:52. | |
going on. So the political parties have had | :06:53. | :06:53. | |
to move into election mode Stand by for battle buses, | :06:54. | :06:56. | |
mail shots and your social media timeline being bombarded | :06:57. | :07:00. | |
by political propoganda. But none of this comes cheap - | :07:01. | :07:01. | |
Adam's been doing his sums. Democracy is priceless but those | :07:02. | :07:06. | |
planes, trains and automobiles used in the last election cost money | :07:07. | :07:12. | |
and we know exactly how much, thanks to the Electoral | :07:13. | :07:14. | |
Commission database. The Conservatives flew David Cameron | :07:15. | :07:20. | |
to every part of the UK in one day on a private plane costing ?29,000, | :07:21. | :07:24. | |
in-flight meals extra. They shelled out ?1.2 million | :07:25. | :07:30. | |
for adverts on Facebook. The most expensive item was their | :07:31. | :07:35. | |
election guru Lynton Crosby. They bought ?2.4 million worth | :07:36. | :07:40. | |
of advice and research from his firm Labour's biggest expenditure | :07:41. | :07:43. | |
was on good old-fashioned leaflets, costing ?7.4 million | :07:44. | :07:49. | |
to print and deliver. Hope they didn't go straight | :07:50. | :07:52. | |
into the recycling. Cheap for all the | :07:53. | :07:57. | |
enjoyment it gave us. To turn a normal minibus | :07:58. | :08:06. | |
into Harriet Harman's pink bus Nick Clegg toured the country doing | :08:07. | :08:08. | |
all manner of stunts transported although the party got a grand's | :08:09. | :08:15. | |
discount when it broke down. Ukip's then leader Nigel Farage | :08:16. | :08:28. | |
was accompanied by bodyguards Nicola Sturgeon's chopper | :08:29. | :08:30. | |
cost the SNP ?35,450. Plaid Cymru spent just over | :08:31. | :08:39. | |
?1,000 on media training And the Greens spent ?6,912 | :08:40. | :08:42. | |
promoting their tweets. It adds up to a grand total | :08:43. | :08:56. | |
for all the parties of ?37,560,039. Jabbing at my calculator that works | :08:57. | :09:00. | |
out at less than ?1 per voter. Adam Fleming there - | :09:01. | :09:07. | |
and joining me now is the man responsible for the Conservative | :09:08. | :09:12. | |
election campaigns - for the locals next month | :09:13. | :09:16. | |
and the general election in June - Welcome to the programme. The Crown | :09:17. | :09:24. | |
Prosecution Service is reviewing evidence from 14 police forces that | :09:25. | :09:27. | |
your party breached election spending rules on multiple occasions | :09:28. | :09:32. | |
in the last election. What are you going to do differently this time? | :09:33. | :09:38. | |
Well, the battle buses are part of the National campaign spend. You saw | :09:39. | :09:44. | |
them just on the shot that you did, all three parties had those battle | :09:45. | :09:47. | |
buses so that's why we believe they were part of the national spend and | :09:48. | :09:50. | |
it was declared that way. At least 30 people in your party, MPs and | :09:51. | :09:54. | |
agents, being investigated because they may not have been right to | :09:55. | :09:58. | |
include it in the national spend. Are you saying you are going to do | :09:59. | :10:01. | |
nothing differently this time? You asked me about last time and the way | :10:02. | :10:09. | |
the position is... Was. I asked you about this time. We will take a | :10:10. | :10:12. | |
careful count and make sure that everything that we do is within the | :10:13. | :10:19. | |
law. But as I say, the last election, all three parties had | :10:20. | :10:22. | |
battle buses. It is your party that above all has been investigated by | :10:23. | :10:27. | |
14 police forces. You must surely be taking stock of that and working out | :10:28. | :10:33. | |
how to do some things differently. You are being investigated because | :10:34. | :10:36. | |
you put stuff on the National Ledger which should have been on the local | :10:37. | :10:41. | |
constituency ledger. Are you looking at that again? All of the parties | :10:42. | :10:44. | |
had battle buses and they all put them on their national spend. I | :10:45. | :10:48. | |
don't think any of the parties put them on the local spend. The other | :10:49. | :10:53. | |
battle buses were not full of their party activists. Your party stuffed | :10:54. | :10:56. | |
these battle buses with activists and took them to constituencies. | :10:57. | :11:02. | |
That's the difference. And I ask again, what is different this time? | :11:03. | :11:06. | |
Are you going to run the risk of being investigated yet again? We | :11:07. | :11:10. | |
believe that we fully compliant with the electoral law as it was. What | :11:11. | :11:15. | |
will happen if one of these, or two or three or four or five of these 30 | :11:16. | :11:19. | |
people, Tory MPs, or agents running campaigns are charged during the | :11:20. | :11:26. | |
campaign? As I say I believe we properly declared our election | :11:27. | :11:29. | |
expenses. What happens if they are charged? You asking me a | :11:30. | :11:32. | |
hypothetical question, the importance of this election is about | :11:33. | :11:36. | |
who is in Downing Street in seven weeks' time. Let me clarify this, | :11:37. | :11:40. | |
you maintain that in 2015 you did nothing wrong with how you allocated | :11:41. | :11:44. | |
the cost and the activities of the battle buses and you would do | :11:45. | :11:47. | |
exactly the same this time round? What we did at the last election we | :11:48. | :11:52. | |
believe fully complied with the law. So the battle buses this time, | :11:53. | :11:57. | |
stocked full of activists, will still be charged to the national | :11:58. | :12:00. | |
campaign even when they go to local constituencies? Will they? We will | :12:01. | :12:08. | |
be looking at the way we do it, there is new guidance from the | :12:09. | :12:13. | |
Electoral Commission out and we will look at that guidance. It is not the | :12:14. | :12:17. | |
guidance, it is the lawful stop the Electoral Commission said that, if | :12:18. | :12:21. | |
you look at the report they did on us, they said there was one area | :12:22. | :12:24. | |
where we had over claimed, over declared, and another area we had | :12:25. | :12:28. | |
and declared. We haven't worked out what to do | :12:29. | :12:31. | |
yet, have you? We will get on with the campaign and | :12:32. | :12:35. | |
start the campaign and I'm looking forward to the campaign. | :12:36. | :12:37. | |
I'm trying to work out of the campaign is going to be legal or not | :12:38. | :12:40. | |
because last time it seems it could have been illegal. | :12:41. | :12:44. | |
I am sure the campaign will be legal. | :12:45. | :12:46. | |
You started the campaign warning about the prospect of, the coalition | :12:47. | :12:51. | |
of chaos. Mr Corbyn has ruled out a post-election coalition with the SNP | :12:52. | :12:59. | |
and so have the Lib Dems so who is going to be in this coalition? | :13:00. | :13:01. | |
Vince Cable said he was looking towards a possible coalition trying | :13:02. | :13:03. | |
to stop a Conservative government. Is not the leader of the Lib Dems. | :13:04. | :13:06. | |
He's an important voice in the Lib Dems. Who will be in it? Let's see | :13:07. | :13:13. | |
because of the Conservative Party is not re-elected with a strong | :13:14. | :13:16. | |
majority, what will happen? There will be a coalition stopping us | :13:17. | :13:19. | |
doing the things we need to do. Who will be in it? It will be a | :13:20. | :13:23. | |
coalition of the Labour Party, the SNP and the Liberal party. They have | :13:24. | :13:27. | |
ruled it out. I think they would not rule it out if that was the | :13:28. | :13:31. | |
situation. Like Theresa May not ruling out an election and then | :13:32. | :13:35. | |
changing her mind? The things the Prime Minister said were very clear, | :13:36. | :13:38. | |
once she had served Article 50 there was an opportunity, as we know | :13:39. | :13:42. | |
today, there is going to be the start of a new government formed in | :13:43. | :13:46. | |
France and in September we have the German elections. So it was quite | :13:47. | :13:50. | |
right that we didn't get ourselves boxed into a timetable. That is why | :13:51. | :13:56. | |
the Prime Minister took the view that they should be a general | :13:57. | :13:59. | |
election to give her full strength of an electoral mandate when it | :14:00. | :14:03. | |
comes to those negotiations. What about Mr Corbyn's plan for four new | :14:04. | :14:10. | |
bank holidays, good idea? I'm not... If we get Corbyn in No 10 Downing St | :14:11. | :14:13. | |
we will have a permanent bank holiday of the United Kingdom. We | :14:14. | :14:18. | |
will have fewer bank holidays of most other major nations, most about | :14:19. | :14:24. | |
major wealthy nations. What about at least one more? Well, look, he's | :14:25. | :14:28. | |
talked about four bank holidays. Today would be a bank holiday and | :14:29. | :14:33. | |
next Monday would be a bank holiday and the other week was a bank | :14:34. | :14:37. | |
holiday too. I don't think it's very well thought out. It sounded more to | :14:38. | :14:41. | |
me something like you get in school mock elections rather than proper | :14:42. | :14:45. | |
elections. Your party is the self-styled party of the workers and | :14:46. | :14:48. | |
you have no plans to give the workers even one extra bank holiday? | :14:49. | :14:52. | |
What we want to do is ensure Britain is a strong economy and building on | :14:53. | :14:57. | |
the jobs that we have created since 2010. We were told that by reducing | :14:58. | :15:01. | |
public expenditure unemployment in this country would go up, | :15:02. | :15:06. | |
unemployment has gone down and the number of jobs have gone up | :15:07. | :15:10. | |
substantially. But no more bank holidays? Well, we will make our | :15:11. | :15:14. | |
manifesto in due course but I don't think four bank holidays held in | :15:15. | :15:18. | |
April, March and November are very attractive to people. When Ed | :15:19. | :15:24. | |
Miliband as leader of the Labour Party suggested the government | :15:25. | :15:33. | |
should control energy prices by capping them, the Conservatives | :15:34. | :15:36. | |
described that as almost Communist and central planning. Do still take | :15:37. | :15:40. | |
that view? You'll see what we have to say on energy prices. I didn't | :15:41. | :15:45. | |
you about that, I asked you if you take the view... The Prime Minister | :15:46. | :15:49. | |
made a speech at the Conservative Spring conference in which she | :15:50. | :15:52. | |
outlined her dissatisfaction about people who are kept locked on a | :15:53. | :15:55. | |
standard tariff and those are the issues we will address in the next | :15:56. | :15:57. | |
few weeks when the manifesto was published. | :15:58. | :16:03. | |
Would that be an act of communism? You will need to see what we say | :16:04. | :16:09. | |
when we set out the policies. It could be. You could put a Communist | :16:10. | :16:15. | |
act into your manifesto? I don't think you'll find a Communist | :16:16. | :16:20. | |
manifesto in a Conservative manifesto which will be launched... | :16:21. | :16:23. | |
You are planning to control prices? We will address what we think is | :16:24. | :16:28. | |
unfairness in the energy market. Mr Jeremy Corbyn was reluctant this | :16:29. | :16:32. | |
morning to sanction a drone strike. You heard us talking about it | :16:33. | :16:38. | |
earlier against the leader of Islamic State if our intelligence | :16:39. | :16:41. | |
services identified him. What would it achieve? When the Prime Minister | :16:42. | :16:46. | |
gets certain advice in the national interests, she has to act been that. | :16:47. | :16:51. | |
We've seen with Theresa May in her time as Home Secretary and Prime | :16:52. | :16:54. | |
Minister, she's not afraid to take those very difficult decisions. What | :16:55. | :16:58. | |
we say this morning from Jeremy Corbyn was a his tans, a reluctance. | :16:59. | :17:02. | |
I don't think that serves the country well. What would it achieve | :17:03. | :17:09. | |
if we take out the head of Islamic State he's replaced by somebody | :17:10. | :17:13. | |
else. It brings their organisation into difficulties. It undermines | :17:14. | :17:19. | |
their organisation. It shows we'll take every measure to undo an | :17:20. | :17:23. | |
organisation which has organised terrorism in different parts of | :17:24. | :17:26. | |
Europe, the UK. I think it is absolutely right the Prime Minister | :17:27. | :17:29. | |
is prepared to take those kind of measures. Jeremy Corbyn said he | :17:30. | :17:34. | |
wasn't prepared to take that. Because he wasn't sure what it would | :17:35. | :17:39. | |
achieve. The Obama administration launched hundreds of drone strikes | :17:40. | :17:44. | |
in various war zones and we in the west are still under attack on a | :17:45. | :17:50. | |
regular basis. Mr Corbyn's basis was what would it achieve? It would | :17:51. | :17:56. | |
achieve a safer position for the UK overall. The war on terrorists. But | :17:57. | :18:00. | |
the Westminster attack, Paris has just been attacked again? There's | :18:01. | :18:05. | |
been attacks which have been stopped by the intelligence services. We | :18:06. | :18:09. | |
must do all we can to support them. The question was about drone | :18:10. | :18:13. | |
strikes. Whether it is drone strikes or other action, we have to be | :18:14. | :18:18. | |
prepared to act. Let's move on to Brexit. It is the major reason the | :18:19. | :18:21. | |
Prime Minister's called the election? Not the only within but | :18:22. | :18:26. | |
the main reason? It is one of the reasons. Now we start the two-year | :18:27. | :18:30. | |
negotiations and then a year afterwards. Also the way in which | :18:31. | :18:35. | |
certain people said they would try to use in the House of Lords or | :18:36. | :18:38. | |
House of Commons to prevent us making progress. I think you'll put | :18:39. | :18:45. | |
in your manifesto, it is the Government's policy, the Brexit | :18:46. | :18:51. | |
negotiating position will be no more freedom of movement. Leave the | :18:52. | :18:58. | |
single market and no longer under the jurisdiction Europe. You expect | :18:59. | :19:01. | |
every Tory MP to fight on that manifesto. What will you do with Ken | :19:02. | :19:07. | |
Clarke and Anna? They will have fought on their manifesto. They will | :19:08. | :19:11. | |
understand the Prime Minister has the authority of the ballot box | :19:12. | :19:14. | |
behind them. Will they fight the election on these positions? I'm | :19:15. | :19:20. | |
sure they'll fight the election supporting the election of a | :19:21. | :19:24. | |
Conservative Government and it's manifesto will quite clearly set | :19:25. | :19:28. | |
out... You know they're against these positions. Ken Clarke has a | :19:29. | :19:33. | |
prod tradition of expressing a certain view. Overall, the party's | :19:34. | :19:37. | |
manifesto, it is not just individuals like Ken Clarke, it is | :19:38. | :19:41. | |
what happens as far as the House of Lords are concerned, people said | :19:42. | :19:45. | |
they'd use the House of Lords to prevent certain measures. You're the | :19:46. | :19:49. | |
party chairman, will it be possible for people like Ken Clarke to fight | :19:50. | :19:54. | |
this election under the Conservative ticket without sub describing to all | :19:55. | :19:59. | |
-- subscribing to all of these Brexit conditions? Ken Clarke will | :20:00. | :20:05. | |
fight as Conservative candidates. That wasn't my question. I know | :20:06. | :20:10. | |
that. Will they be allowed to fight it on their own ticket and not | :20:11. | :20:14. | |
subscribe to what is in your manifesto? The manifesto will be | :20:15. | :20:18. | |
what the Conservative Party fights the General Election on. There will | :20:19. | :20:22. | |
always be cases where people have had different views on different | :20:23. | :20:28. | |
parts of the manifesto. That will be the guiding principles for the | :20:29. | :20:34. | |
party. Philip Hammond says your election promises in 2015, in your | :20:35. | :20:39. | |
manifesto not to raise taxes tied his hands when it came to managing | :20:40. | :20:43. | |
the economy. Do you agree with him? No. The simple fact is we have to do | :20:44. | :20:47. | |
the best things for the economy. We'll set out in our manifesto in a | :20:48. | :20:52. | |
few weeks' time, what the policies will be for the next Parliament. Can | :20:53. | :20:57. | |
I clarify, you don't agree with your Chancellor? What Philip was saying | :20:58. | :21:03. | |
was some of the areas we wants to address as Chancellor, what the | :21:04. | :21:08. | |
party will do, it will set out all the issues we're fighting on. It | :21:09. | :21:11. | |
will set out clearly the choice we have in this country. That's the | :21:12. | :21:15. | |
important thing. Let me put the question to you again. Philip | :21:16. | :21:19. | |
Hammond said this week your election promise in 2015 not to raise taxes | :21:20. | :21:23. | |
had tied his hands when it came to managing the economy. I ask you, do | :21:24. | :21:29. | |
you agree with him? You said no. Philip expressed his view as to what | :21:30. | :21:34. | |
he would like. What I'm saying is in a few weeks' time we'll set the | :21:35. | :21:39. | |
manifesto which will set the policies, agreed with the the | :21:40. | :21:43. | |
Cabinet. He's Chancellor. Doesn't he determine what the economic part of | :21:44. | :21:46. | |
the manifesto is? We'll talk about that in due course. Will you have a | :21:47. | :21:52. | |
lock on the taxes that you locked in 2015 on income tax, VAT, national | :21:53. | :21:57. | |
insurance? That will be decided. You'll see that when we publish the | :21:58. | :22:04. | |
manifesto in a few weeks' time. Will you rule out the possibility taxes | :22:05. | :22:08. | |
may have to rise under a future Conservative Party? Conservative | :22:09. | :22:13. | |
Government. We've taken four million people out of tax. Now, on average, | :22:14. | :22:19. | |
people are paying ?1200 less tax than they were on the same salaries | :22:20. | :22:25. | |
in 2010. I'm very provide of that. I can assure you, the Conservative | :22:26. | :22:27. | |
Party will want to see taxes reduced. It is the Labour Party | :22:28. | :22:31. | |
which will put up taxes. We have the evidence where this he did so. | :22:32. | :22:37. | |
Council tax went up by over 100%. You haven't reduced the tax burden | :22:38. | :22:43. | |
as a percentage of the GDP is now going to reach its highest level | :22:44. | :22:48. | |
since the mid-180s which was when Conservatives were in power. The tax | :22:49. | :22:54. | |
burden in this country under your Government is rising? We've more | :22:55. | :22:57. | |
people paying taxes which is something, because we've a growing | :22:58. | :23:00. | |
economy and more people... What about the tax band? You said you | :23:01. | :23:05. | |
reduced the tax burden on your own Government's figures is rising? We | :23:06. | :23:10. | |
have reduced the tax burden. The threshold at which people start | :23:11. | :23:15. | |
paying. These are tax rates not the tax burden. It is rising. The tax | :23:16. | :23:21. | |
rates have been reduced. You said tax burden. Perhaps I misspoke. Tax | :23:22. | :23:26. | |
rates have been reduced. We'll leave it there. No doubt we'll speak again | :23:27. | :23:34. | |
between now and June Is France now about to make it | :23:35. | :23:35. | |
a hat-trick of shocks The prospect terrifies | :23:36. | :23:40. | |
the governing elite in Paris. But they're no less scared | :23:41. | :23:43. | |
in Brussels and Berlin, given what it could mean | :23:44. | :23:45. | |
for the whole EU project, never mind the huge potential impact | :23:46. | :23:48. | |
on our own Brexit negotiations. 11 candidates are contesting | :23:49. | :24:07. | |
the first round of the presidential Only the top two will go forward | :24:08. | :24:10. | |
to the run-off on May 7th. For the first time since General De | :24:11. | :24:16. | |
Gaulle created the fifth Republic in 1958, it's perfectly possible that | :24:17. | :24:21. | |
no candidate from the ruling parties of the centre-left or the | :24:22. | :24:25. | |
centre-right will even make it The election has been dominated by | :24:26. | :24:28. | |
the hard right in the shape of the who's never been elected | :24:29. | :24:35. | |
to anything and only started his own party | :24:36. | :24:42. | |
a few months ago. And the far left in the form | :24:43. | :24:44. | |
of Jean-Luc Melenchon, a former Trotskyite who has surged | :24:45. | :24:47. | |
in the final weeks of the campaign. The only candidate left from the | :24:48. | :24:51. | |
traditional governing parties is the centre-right's | :24:52. | :24:54. | |
Francois Fillon and he's been struggling to stay in | :24:55. | :24:57. | |
the race ever since it was revealed that his Welsh wife was being paid | :24:58. | :25:00. | |
at generous public expense for a job I've just come across | :25:01. | :25:05. | |
this magazine cover and it kind of sums up the mood | :25:06. | :25:20. | |
of the French people. It's got the five main candidates | :25:21. | :25:23. | |
for President here but it calls them the biggest liar, the biggest cheat, | :25:24. | :25:26. | |
the biggest traitor, the most paranoid, the biggest demagogue, | :25:27. | :25:29. | |
and it says they are the winners The four leading candidates, | :25:30. | :25:32. | |
Le Pen, Melenchon, Macron and Fillon, or in with a chance | :25:33. | :25:43. | |
of making it to the second round. Only a couple of points separates | :25:44. | :25:46. | |
them in the polls, Frankly, no one has a clue what's | :25:47. | :25:48. | |
going to happen. Of the four, there is a feeling that | :25:49. | :25:54. | |
two of them may be President But the two of them may not find | :25:55. | :26:00. | |
themselves in the second round. Somebody said to me that the man or | :26:01. | :26:13. | |
woman on the Paris Metro has as much a chance of knowing | :26:14. | :26:26. | |
who will win as the greatest experts Because the more expert you are | :26:27. | :26:30. | |
the more you may be wrong. The country has largely | :26:31. | :26:37. | |
stagnated for over a decade. One in ten are unemployed, | :26:38. | :26:42. | |
one in four if you are unlucky Like Britain in the '70s there is | :26:43. | :26:45. | |
the pervasive stench There are three keywords that come | :26:46. | :26:49. | |
to mind. Anger, anger at the elite, and in | :26:50. | :26:56. | |
particular the political elite. And an element of | :26:57. | :27:03. | |
nostalgia for the past. These three words were decisive | :27:04. | :27:09. | |
in the Brexit referendum. They are decisive in | :27:10. | :27:13. | |
the French election. Identity and security has been | :27:14. | :27:24. | |
as important in this election France is a proud nation, it worries | :27:25. | :27:28. | |
about its future in Europe It seems bereft of ideas about how | :27:29. | :27:35. | |
to deal with its largely Muslim migrant population, huge chunks of | :27:36. | :27:39. | |
which are increasingly divorced It is quite simply exhausted by | :27:40. | :27:43. | |
the never-ending Islamist terrorist attacks, the latest only days before | :27:44. | :27:54. | |
voting in the iconic heart of this If Fillon or Macron emerge | :27:55. | :27:57. | |
victorious then there will be continuity of sorts, though Fillon | :27:58. | :28:08. | |
will struggle to implement his Thatcherite agenda and Macron will | :28:09. | :28:12. | |
not be able to count on the support of the French parliament, the | :28:13. | :28:16. | |
National Assembly, for his reforms. But if it's Le Pen or Jean-Luc | :28:17. | :28:19. | |
Melenchon then all bets are off. Both are hardline French | :28:20. | :28:25. | |
nationalists, anti the euro, anti the European Union, anti-fiscal | :28:26. | :28:28. | |
discipline, anti the market, Either in the Elysee Palace | :28:29. | :28:31. | |
would represent an existential Brexit would simply become | :28:32. | :28:40. | |
a sideshow, the negotiations could just peter out as Brussels | :28:41. | :28:49. | |
and Berlin had bigger fish to fry. We're joined now from | :28:50. | :28:53. | |
Paris by the journalist 8th Welcome to the programme. | :28:54. | :29:05. | |
Overshadowing the voting today was yet another appalling terrorist | :29:06. | :29:09. | |
attack in Paris on Thursday night. Do we have any indications of how | :29:10. | :29:15. | |
that's playing into the election? That initially people thought this | :29:16. | :29:19. | |
has been almost foiled in that the police were there as a ramp up. One | :29:20. | :29:25. | |
policeman was killed. But the terrorist did not spray the crowd | :29:26. | :29:29. | |
with bullets. It was seen as not having much of an effect on the | :29:30. | :29:34. | |
election. This has changed. We now know the policeman who was killed, a | :29:35. | :29:41. | |
young man about to the promoted, he was at the Bataclan the night of the | :29:42. | :29:46. | |
terror attack. He was a fighter for LGBT rights. The fact he was | :29:47. | :29:53. | |
promoted, happy within his job, he has this fresh face. Sudden, he's | :29:54. | :29:59. | |
one of us. It took perhaps 48 hours for the French to process this. But | :30:00. | :30:05. | |
now they're angry and this may actually change the game, at least | :30:06. | :30:11. | |
at the margins. To whose advantage? I would say the two who might | :30:12. | :30:18. | |
benefit from this are Marine Le Pen, she's been absolutely | :30:19. | :30:22. | |
anti-immigration, anti-anything. And made no bones about it as she | :30:23. | :30:27. | |
immediately made rather strange announcement in which she'd said if | :30:28. | :30:30. | |
she'd been president none of the terror attacks which happened in | :30:31. | :30:34. | |
France would have happened. Francois Fillon has written a book two years | :30:35. | :30:42. | |
ago called Combating Islamic Terrorism he's has an organised plan | :30:43. | :30:46. | |
in his manifesto. Unlike Emmanuel Macron who stumbled when he was | :30:47. | :30:50. | |
asked the evening this happened what he thought, he said, I can't dream | :30:51. | :30:54. | |
up an anti-terror programme overnight. The question, of course, | :30:55. | :30:58. | |
that arrows was this is not the sort of thing that's just happened | :30:59. | :31:02. | |
overnight. It's been unfortunately the fate of France for many years. | :31:03. | :31:08. | |
Let me ask you this finally, what ever the outcome on May 7th in the | :31:09. | :31:13. | |
second round, who ever wins, would it be fair to say French politics | :31:14. | :31:19. | |
will never be the same again? Yes. Absolutely it's a very strange | :31:20. | :31:22. | |
thing. People have no become really excited about this. You cannot go | :31:23. | :31:26. | |
anywhere without people discussing heatedly this election. The anger | :31:27. | :31:31. | |
that was described is very accurate. Very true. There was this feeling as | :31:32. | :31:37. | |
for the Brexit voters and the Trump voters, vast parts of the people | :31:38. | :31:42. | |
were being talked down to by people who despised them. This has to | :31:43. | :31:48. | |
change. If it doesn't change, we cannot predict what the future will | :31:49. | :31:53. | |
be. We'll know the results or at least the ex-the Poll London time | :31:54. | :31:58. | |
tonight at 8.00pm. Thank for joining us from the glorious heart of your | :31:59. | :32:00. | |
city. Now, the Green Party currently has | :32:01. | :32:04. | |
one MP and they'll be contesting many more seats in June | :32:05. | :32:07. | |
as well as hoping to increase their presence on councils in | :32:08. | :32:10. | |
the local elections on 4th May. Launching their campaign | :32:11. | :32:12. | |
on Thursday, co-leader Caroline Lucas made | :32:13. | :32:14. | |
a pitch to younger voters. When it comes to young | :32:15. | :32:16. | |
people they've been But one crucial way they've been | :32:17. | :32:18. | |
betrayed is by what this generation and this government and the previous | :32:19. | :32:23. | |
ones have been doing when it comes We know we had the hottest year | :32:24. | :32:26. | |
on record last year, you know, you almost think what else does | :32:27. | :32:31. | |
the environment need to be doing All the signs are there | :32:32. | :32:34. | |
and it is young people who are going to be bearing | :32:35. | :32:37. | |
the brunt of a wrecked environment and that's why it's so important | :32:38. | :32:40. | |
that when we come to making that pitch to, yes, the country at large | :32:41. | :32:44. | |
but to young people in particular, I think climate change, | :32:45. | :32:46. | |
the environment, looking after our precious resources, | :32:47. | :32:48. | |
has to be up there. And I'm joined now by the Green | :32:49. | :32:53. | |
MEP, Molly Scott Cato. Welcome back to the programme. | :32:54. | :33:07. | |
Promised to scrap university tuition fees, increase NHS funding, rollback | :33:08. | :33:11. | |
cuts to local councils spending, how much would that cost and how would | :33:12. | :33:15. | |
you pay for it? Like the other parties we haven't got a costed | :33:16. | :33:18. | |
manifesto yet, it's only a few days since the election was announced so | :33:19. | :33:21. | |
I will come back and explain the figures. You don't know? Like every | :33:22. | :33:25. | |
party we have not produced accosted manifesto yet, we produced one last | :33:26. | :33:31. | |
time but public spending figures have changed so we're not in a | :33:32. | :33:34. | |
position to do that but we will be in a week or so. What taxes would | :33:35. | :33:39. | |
you like to consider raising? We would consider having higher taxes | :33:40. | :33:43. | |
for the better off in society. I think we need to increase the amount | :33:44. | :33:48. | |
of tax wealthier people pay. How do you define better off? I'm not | :33:49. | :33:51. | |
entirely clear what the precise number would be but I think 100,000 | :33:52. | :33:57. | |
people would pay a bit more, 150,000 quite considerably more but the real | :33:58. | :34:01. | |
focus needs to be on companies avoiding paying taxes. I work on | :34:02. | :34:04. | |
that a lot in my role in the European Parliament, we see an | :34:05. | :34:07. | |
enormous amount of tax avoidance by companies moving profits from | :34:08. | :34:10. | |
country to country and we need European corporation to make that | :34:11. | :34:14. | |
successful. It has not made much difference yet. We have made lots of | :34:15. | :34:20. | |
changes. Google turned over $1 billion and only paid 25 million in | :34:21. | :34:23. | |
taxes last year. There was a significant fine introduced by the | :34:24. | :34:28. | |
competition commission on Apple and in the case of Google we must change | :34:29. | :34:32. | |
the laws so that people cannot move profits from country to country. | :34:33. | :34:38. | |
Everybody wants to do it. But you couldn't face a big spending | :34:39. | :34:41. | |
programme on the ability to do that. You'd have to increase other taxes. | :34:42. | :34:45. | |
If you look at the cost of free student tuition, tuition fees and | :34:46. | :34:48. | |
also maintenance grants to students, that would come in at about 10 | :34:49. | :34:51. | |
billion a year. One way of paying for that would be to remove the | :34:52. | :34:55. | |
upper threshold on National Insurance, bringing in 20 billion a | :34:56. | :34:58. | |
year, that's the order of magnitude we are talking about. It is not | :34:59. | :35:03. | |
vast, and some of the proposals we have... That would be an increase on | :35:04. | :35:07. | |
the better of tax? National Insurance on people earning... | :35:08. | :35:14. | |
People earning above 42,000. You would have another 10% tax above | :35:15. | :35:18. | |
42,000? I can't remember exactly how much the National Insurance rate | :35:19. | :35:24. | |
changes by. But in government figures it would be 28 billion | :35:25. | :35:28. | |
raised. I think it is up to 45, a bit more you pay a marginal rate of | :35:29. | :35:31. | |
40%, you would have them pay a marginal rate of over 50%? We would | :35:32. | :35:36. | |
put the National Insurance rate on higher incomes the same as it is on | :35:37. | :35:40. | |
lower incomes. If you are a school head of an English department on 50, | :35:41. | :35:44. | |
60,000 a year you would face a marginal rate under U of over 50%? | :35:45. | :35:50. | |
It is not useful to do this as a mental maths exercise but if you | :35:51. | :35:55. | |
look at other proposals would could have a landlord licensing system, | :35:56. | :35:59. | |
longer term leases on properties, so young people particularly, but also | :36:00. | :36:02. | |
older people who rent, could have more security which needn't cost | :36:03. | :36:05. | |
anything. We could insist on landlords paying for that. The | :36:06. | :36:09. | |
mental arithmetic seems clear but we will come back to that. How is the | :36:10. | :36:13. | |
Progressive Alliance coming? It is going well, I have heard of a lot of | :36:14. | :36:18. | |
interest at local level. Winterset this in contest, context, lots of | :36:19. | :36:23. | |
progressives are concerned about the crisis in public services, prisons, | :36:24. | :36:27. | |
social care system, and also about the Tories' hard extreme Brexit they | :36:28. | :36:31. | |
are threatening. You want the left to come together? Theresa May has | :36:32. | :36:36. | |
given us opportunity, she has taken a risk because she has problems with | :36:37. | :36:39. | |
backbenchers, she doesn't think she can get through Brexit with a small | :36:40. | :36:42. | |
majority so there is an opportunity and we are saying progressives must | :36:43. | :36:46. | |
come together to corporate, Conservatives are effective at using | :36:47. | :36:48. | |
the first-past-the-post system and we have to become effective as well. | :36:49. | :36:54. | |
Do you accept this Progressive Alliance cannot become the | :36:55. | :36:57. | |
government and Mr Corbyn is the Prime Minister? How could it happen | :36:58. | :37:01. | |
otherwise? I think that is a secondary question. For me the | :37:02. | :37:05. | |
primary question is who do people choose to vote for? Aluminium | :37:06. | :37:08. | |
government afterwards comes after the election. In most countries that | :37:09. | :37:12. | |
is the case. I understand that but we have the system we have and you | :37:13. | :37:15. | |
accept this Progressive Alliance cannot be in power and thus mystical | :37:16. | :37:19. | |
Burmese Prime Minister? Personally I think Mr Corbyn is less of a threat | :37:20. | :37:22. | |
to the country than Theresa May, she has shown herself to be an | :37:23. | :37:25. | |
authoritarian leader and she has said she doesn't want to have | :37:26. | :37:31. | |
dissidents, which I would say is reasonable opposition, and what we | :37:32. | :37:34. | |
are suggesting at the moment is there is a way of avoiding that very | :37:35. | :37:36. | |
hard Brexit and damage to public services. You'd be happy to pay the | :37:37. | :37:39. | |
price of having Mr Corbyn as Prime Minister? I do not see that as a | :37:40. | :37:44. | |
price. People have the choice of Jeremy Corbyn or Theresa May as | :37:45. | :37:47. | |
Prime Minister, that's the system that works. You would prefer Mr | :37:48. | :37:52. | |
Corbyn? I would but votes are translated into seats and the | :37:53. | :37:54. | |
Progressive Alliance is a step towards that. | :37:55. | :37:56. | |
It's just gone 3:50pm, you're watching the Sunday Politics. | :37:57. | :37:58. | |
We say goodbye to viewers in Scotland, Wales | :37:59. | :38:00. | |
and Northern Ireland who leave us now. | :38:01. | :38:02. | |
Hello, I'm Martyn Oates. minutes, the Week Ahead. | :38:03. | :38:15. | |
Coming up on the Sunday Politics here in the South West: | :38:16. | :38:18. | |
Will Labour's new pro-Corbyn members in Plymouth get out | :38:19. | :38:22. | |
on the doorstep for a candidate from the centre-left? | :38:23. | :38:26. | |
I want people who are real, I don't want people who are fake. | :38:27. | :38:29. | |
They're not faking it, they're actually | :38:30. | :38:31. | |
believing it, they're living it, they want to be a Labour candidate | :38:32. | :38:34. | |
and they want to be part of a Labour government led by Jeremy Corbyn. | :38:35. | :38:38. | |
And for the next 20 minutes, I'm joined by the Lib Dem | :38:39. | :38:41. | |
peer Judith Jolly, and by Ernie Warrender, | :38:42. | :38:43. | |
who's hoping to stand for Ukip in June's general election. | :38:44. | :38:46. | |
Welcome, both of you, to the programme. | :38:47. | :38:51. | |
To kick things off, should this election be all about Brexit, Ernie? | :38:52. | :39:01. | |
It's probably going to be but it's virtually a cynical hijacking of | :39:02. | :39:06. | |
democracy. I feel terribly sorry for Northern Ireland because they will | :39:07. | :39:10. | |
have to vote again. This isn't about electing a government. In my view | :39:11. | :39:14. | |
that is pretty much done deal. This is about electing an effective | :39:15. | :39:19. | |
opposition, and what you have is 17.3 million people who voted for | :39:20. | :39:24. | |
Brexit, Brexit, Lead, exit, they knew what they were voting for | :39:25. | :39:30. | |
clearly, and there are serious concerns that Theresa May will not | :39:31. | :39:34. | |
deliver on immigration, people are worried about fisheries. By putting | :39:35. | :39:40. | |
Ukip MPs in Parliament to counter the virtually 100% Remain, has to be | :39:41. | :39:48. | |
done. Judith, you and your leader want to make this about Brexit as | :39:49. | :39:52. | |
well from the opposing sides. We were watching something about | :39:53. | :39:54. | |
manifestos earlier and our manifesto will not be all about Brexit. There | :39:55. | :40:01. | |
is a whole issue around health and social care. It looks like it has | :40:02. | :40:06. | |
been knocked into the long grass but it is a disaster waiting to happen. | :40:07. | :40:11. | |
It is not just about Brexit. We have a distinctive view on Brexit, | :40:12. | :40:15. | |
clearly, and you Anae so far seriously disagree, but... There | :40:16. | :40:23. | |
will be More Of That, I suspect. There will be More Of That. As the | :40:24. | :40:25. | |
programme wears on. Once again, the South West looks | :40:26. | :40:29. | |
like playing a central role in the election, | :40:30. | :40:31. | |
with particular focus here on the traditional tussle | :40:32. | :40:33. | |
between the Conservatives The former will be fighting to keep | :40:34. | :40:35. | |
all the seats they gained The latter will be equally | :40:36. | :40:39. | |
determined to get them back. And, keen not to be left out, | :40:40. | :40:42. | |
some of the other parties in the fray are already talking | :40:43. | :40:45. | |
about pre-election deals Tim Farron rolled into Truro | :40:46. | :40:47. | |
on local election business just an hour after Theresa May | :40:48. | :40:59. | |
called the snap election, but the Lib Dems, the party of pavement | :41:00. | :41:03. | |
politics, say they are The Liberal Democrats have been | :41:04. | :41:06. | |
calling for an early election, and we've been ready | :41:07. | :41:11. | |
for an early election, The party machine is | :41:12. | :41:13. | |
already up and running, local elections, but with a June | :41:14. | :41:19. | |
the 8th poll, familiar faces are encouraging tactical voting, | :41:20. | :41:23. | |
where the Lib Dems are in a strong In those seats, we would | :41:24. | :41:26. | |
clearly be encouraging, indeed, even members | :41:27. | :41:32. | |
of parties that came third, fourth, fifth last time, | :41:33. | :41:36. | |
to perhaps think carefully about whether they want to have an MP | :41:37. | :41:39. | |
who maybe isn't entirely to their liking, but at least firstly is not | :41:40. | :41:44. | |
a Conservative, and secondly is someone who at least | :41:45. | :41:48. | |
is on the progressive centre-left. There is one place | :41:49. | :41:54. | |
in Cornwall where the Green vote alone would have been | :41:55. | :41:55. | |
enough to get the Lib Dems over This is Andrew George's | :41:56. | :41:58. | |
old constituency, where the Conservatives beat | :41:59. | :42:03. | |
him by 2,500 votes. The maths is simple, | :42:04. | :42:06. | |
but for now, cards are being Certainly there are places, | :42:07. | :42:13. | |
St Ives and others around the country, where Greens | :42:14. | :42:17. | |
can make a difference. In other constituencies, | :42:18. | :42:19. | |
the Lib Dems themselves can make a difference to the outcome, | :42:20. | :42:21. | |
so what we want to be able to do is to have talks, | :42:22. | :42:24. | |
to look at this as fast as possible, given the very short time | :42:25. | :42:27. | |
we have before the election, to see But as in any battle, | :42:28. | :42:30. | |
it's not all one-sided. Some in Ukip are keen to keep Brexit | :42:31. | :42:35. | |
top of the agenda, and are considering playing | :42:36. | :42:39. | |
a similar card. My opinion is that we need to be | :42:40. | :42:42. | |
very clever, and not necessarily stand wherever we can, | :42:43. | :42:45. | |
like we have done in the past. In the referendum, | :42:46. | :42:49. | |
George Eustice was superb. He led from the front, | :42:50. | :42:53. | |
as did Cheryl Murray and Scott Mann, so I don't see why | :42:54. | :42:55. | |
we would want to consider getting And while the Greens | :42:56. | :42:58. | |
this week made an offer to step aside in Plymouth, | :42:59. | :43:04. | |
where the race is traditionally Labour | :43:05. | :43:06. | |
versus Tory, the question is, should | :43:07. | :43:07. | |
the Lib Dems be doing the same? There will be places | :43:08. | :43:11. | |
in the country where Liberal Democrat supporters would be | :43:12. | :43:15. | |
wise to vote Labour if they want to Parties of all colours | :43:16. | :43:20. | |
will be holding talks this week, with any deals needed | :43:21. | :43:26. | |
to be decided on very soon, amid warnings by some Conservatives that | :43:27. | :43:30. | |
electoral pacts are undemocratic. And to discuss this, | :43:31. | :43:36. | |
we're joined by the MP for Camborne and Redruth, | :43:37. | :43:40. | |
George Eustice. He was mentioned in the report and | :43:41. | :43:51. | |
joins us from London. We heard there from Bob Smith, your Ukip opponent | :43:52. | :43:56. | |
in 2015. I think the number of votes they garnered was the size of your | :43:57. | :44:00. | |
majority. Presumably would be delighted if he stood aside this | :44:01. | :44:05. | |
time. The reality is, I was a former Ukip candidate in 1999, but their | :44:06. | :44:10. | |
job is done. This country voted to leave the EU, Ukip was a single | :44:11. | :44:14. | |
issue party set up to campaign for that, and what we | :44:15. | :44:27. | |
need to be Theresa May, which is why we need this general election to | :44:28. | :44:33. | |
clear the air so we have strong and stable leadership going into these | :44:34. | :44:37. | |
vital negotiations. I want to come to this issue of electoral pacts and | :44:38. | :44:43. | |
parties standing aside. Ernie, you heard your Ukip colleague Bob Smith | :44:44. | :44:46. | |
saying in three seats in Cornwall they shouldn't stand. You hope you | :44:47. | :44:52. | |
will and can stand. I have to say I would sooner stick my sensitive | :44:53. | :44:55. | |
places in the mouth of a hungry lion than do a pact with the Tories. We | :44:56. | :45:00. | |
saw what they did to the Lib Dems, they destroyed them. Your job is | :45:01. | :45:02. | |
done, George, it's a reasonable point, | :45:03. | :45:22. | |
isn't it? The job isn't done, because when you look at the papers | :45:23. | :45:24. | |
and all the comments, Theresa May was a Remainer, her Chancellor was a | :45:25. | :45:26. | |
Remainer, the Brexit committee is 11-7 remain, chaired by Hilary Benn, | :45:27. | :45:30. | |
the job is not done in any way, and you need Ukip MPs. Plus it is not a | :45:31. | :45:33. | |
single issue party. When you look at our manifesto, suddenly, the Tories | :45:34. | :45:35. | |
have had a Damascene change on grammar schools, the NHS, respect | :45:36. | :45:37. | |
for the Armed Forces, it is not single issue any more. Will George | :45:38. | :45:42. | |
Eustice face a Ukip challenge? Paul Nuttall was suggesting they could | :45:43. | :45:46. | |
have him. My view, and we are all inputting into the manifesto at the | :45:47. | :45:50. | |
moment, if you must give four million people the opportunity to | :45:51. | :45:54. | |
take a purple and yellow box. It is hijacking democracy if you don't. | :45:55. | :45:59. | |
Judith, in terms of pacts, Andrew George also said this week that he | :46:00. | :46:03. | |
would consider it wise for Lib Dem supporters in some constituencies to | :46:04. | :46:10. | |
vote Labour. This is nothing new. People voted tactically, but it is | :46:11. | :46:15. | |
new to have parties actually saying, vote for an opposing party. | :46:16. | :46:19. | |
Certainly, the Green Party were very helpful to us when we won Richmond | :46:20. | :46:28. | |
recently. I am not party to any deals or conversations about deals | :46:29. | :46:32. | |
in Cornwall, but I wouldn't be surprised if conversations were | :46:33. | :46:35. | |
happening. Whether there will be deals or not, I really don't know, | :46:36. | :46:41. | |
but again, we are very keen to give the country an opportunity to vote | :46:42. | :46:46. | |
Lib Dem in the same way Ernie has described. Sorry to interject, can I | :46:47. | :46:51. | |
just say that at the end of the day, when you say a deal, a deal as a two | :46:52. | :46:56. | |
way event, and it won't be with the Tory party or the Labour Party or | :46:57. | :47:01. | |
the Lib Dems. Can I come in and say, let the other parties talk about | :47:02. | :47:05. | |
pacts and coalitions. This is not a time for some coalition between | :47:06. | :47:15. | |
Ukip, labour, the Green Party and the Lib Dems, to try and do | :47:16. | :47:18. | |
negotiation. This is a time for strong and stable leadership which | :47:19. | :47:20. | |
is why we need Theresa May. Do you think the Lib Dems would going to | :47:21. | :47:24. | |
four way packed? This is not a tie for some chaotic coalition and pact, | :47:25. | :47:27. | |
-- not a time, this is a time for clarity of leadership to get the | :47:28. | :47:32. | |
negotiations right, which needs to be Theresa May negotiating. George, | :47:33. | :47:36. | |
it looks and sounds as if you are cutting to the chase in terms of | :47:37. | :47:39. | |
what might be one of the main messages from the Tory campaign, | :47:40. | :47:43. | |
which is you risk getting this coalition of chaos. Of course, last | :47:44. | :47:55. | |
time you push the line that there was a risk of Ed Miliband's Labour | :47:56. | :47:57. | |
ruling the country with the SNP. Isn't there a problem that with the | :47:58. | :48:00. | |
polls as they are, if people think the Conservatives are likely to get | :48:01. | :48:03. | |
a majority, places like Cornwall and Devon might say, if that will happen | :48:04. | :48:05. | |
anyway, we would rather have an opposition MP and not give the | :48:06. | :48:08. | |
government this overwhelming documents at Westminster? I know and | :48:09. | :48:13. | |
safe seats in the West Country, and safe seats in the West Country, and | :48:14. | :48:18. | |
it is always hotly contested. I was first elected with a majority of | :48:19. | :48:22. | |
just 66 and understand the volatility of the West Country. We | :48:23. | :48:26. | |
take nothing for granted and will be campaigning day in, day out, getting | :48:27. | :48:29. | |
the message across that this country needs strong, stable leadership but | :48:30. | :48:33. | |
also the record the Conservatives have delivered as MPs. When we had | :48:34. | :48:37. | |
Lib Dems they used a point out problems and solve nothing. Since we | :48:38. | :48:43. | |
have Conservative MPs, local Conservative candidates elected, | :48:44. | :48:47. | |
they have delivered, getting investment in hospitals and | :48:48. | :48:49. | |
infrastructure, creating jobs. That's what we need. Judith. I would | :48:50. | :48:57. | |
take issue with that. Certainly it is the role of an MP, we were having | :48:58. | :49:02. | |
this discussion earlier, to talk to ministers and put things on, but to | :49:03. | :49:07. | |
suggest Lib Dems never do that is very disingenuous. Isn't this the | :49:08. | :49:11. | |
case, and if this is the key message from the Conservatives, but at the | :49:12. | :49:17. | |
last election, the message that voting Lib Dem could facilitate | :49:18. | :49:23. | |
labour - SNP coalition was deadly to use. Yes. So this time you should be | :49:24. | :49:29. | |
worried talking about a coalition of chaos. Yes and no Mac, I am not | :49:30. | :49:34. | |
worried. We are going out and explaining what our policies are. | :49:35. | :49:39. | |
Our manifesto will be out in the next week I would imagine along with | :49:40. | :49:43. | |
the others, and we will do that. In fact we have just had to say to all | :49:44. | :49:47. | |
those campaigning for local councils, thank you very much but | :49:48. | :49:50. | |
you can have a day off after the election and we are back on the | :49:51. | :49:55. | |
doors, so that is what we shall do. Can I just say, George is saying | :49:56. | :49:59. | |
what a great job the Tories have done, I remember them campaigning | :50:00. | :50:04. | |
very strongly on getting broadband, communication systems, going in the | :50:05. | :50:07. | |
West Country. It is better in parts of Africa. It is appalling. That is | :50:08. | :50:18. | |
a simple nonsense. Cornwall have high-speed broadband... Big problems | :50:19. | :50:23. | |
in Devon and Somerset, to be fair. They had European money, but that is | :50:24. | :50:30. | |
another debate! 10 million has gone into piloting broadband in the most | :50:31. | :50:33. | |
remote areas and we are constantly putting money into rolling out | :50:34. | :50:37. | |
broadband in moral areas. George Eustice, thank you for joining us. | :50:38. | :50:39. | |
If the last election was disastrous for the Lib Dems, | :50:40. | :50:41. | |
it wasn't great for Labour either - Exeter's Ben Bradshaw is the party's | :50:42. | :50:45. | |
In June, Labour will be hoping to regain at least | :50:46. | :50:48. | |
one seat in Plymouth, but the selection of candidates | :50:49. | :50:50. | |
is still to be finalised, and opinion as to whether | :50:51. | :50:53. | |
the present leadership offers a glorious opportunity or a massive | :50:54. | :50:55. | |
You have got 50 days between now and possibly changing | :50:56. | :51:06. | |
A rare insight into the ranks of Corbyn's footsoldiers. | :51:07. | :51:09. | |
No covert operations here, they say, just passionate politics. | :51:10. | :51:12. | |
How about we have a session where we start to | :51:13. | :51:14. | |
But there are a few thorny questions, chiefly, | :51:15. | :51:21. | |
who fronts up and leads the charge in Plymouth? | :51:22. | :51:24. | |
Whose name will be spelt out on the ballot paper? | :51:25. | :51:28. | |
And I hereby declare that Oliver Colville | :51:29. | :51:30. | |
is duly elected to serve as the member of Parliament for the said | :51:31. | :51:33. | |
The Plymouth Sutton and Devonport seat is number eight on | :51:34. | :51:39. | |
Labour's national target list, and at number 14 is the neighbouring | :51:40. | :51:41. | |
constituency of Moor View, lost by Alison Seabeck in 2015. | :51:42. | :51:48. | |
She is a Corbyn sceptic, who this week said she | :51:49. | :51:51. | |
wouldn't be going over the top this time round. | :51:52. | :51:55. | |
For those leading Corbyn's ever-loyal brigade in | :51:56. | :51:57. | |
Plymouth, a vacancy for one of their own? | :51:58. | :52:01. | |
I'm going to say to you fairly clearly that if somebody doesn't | :52:02. | :52:04. | |
feel it's right for them to campaign as a candidate | :52:05. | :52:08. | |
with Jeremy Corbyn as leader, then I don't want them to. | :52:09. | :52:13. | |
I want people who are real, I don't want people who are fake. | :52:14. | :52:16. | |
They are not faking it, they're actually | :52:17. | :52:17. | |
believing it, they're living it, they want to be | :52:18. | :52:20. | |
a Labour candidate, and they want to be part of a Labour | :52:21. | :52:23. | |
they will campaign for whoever is selected, but this grassroots | :52:24. | :52:28. | |
organisation that backs Jeremy Corbyn has been likened to Nazi | :52:29. | :52:30. | |
stormtroopers by one of Labour's own. | :52:31. | :52:34. | |
Michael Foster ran for the party in Camborne and Redruth in 2015. | :52:35. | :52:40. | |
He now says traditional party members in Cornwall are being frozen | :52:41. | :52:42. | |
What is very very clear is that Momentum, who are | :52:43. | :52:49. | |
now the majority of members, only support their own. | :52:50. | :52:52. | |
There was no support, when I went out a couple of | :52:53. | :52:55. | |
times with candidates, at all, from those Momentum members. | :52:56. | :52:58. | |
The region's only Labour MP has also had well-catalogued disagreements | :52:59. | :53:00. | |
In one instance, Mr Bradshaw described the leadership as "A | :53:01. | :53:08. | |
destructive combination of incompetence, deceit and menace." | :53:09. | :53:12. | |
I think a lot of my colleagues, as you | :53:13. | :53:15. | |
have seen today, have taken a good, hard look at themselves and their | :53:16. | :53:18. | |
consciences and have come out and said they just don't think Jeremy | :53:19. | :53:21. | |
has got the right qualities to take us into an election, and in fact | :53:22. | :53:24. | |
Unsurprisingly, that's not how they see it | :53:25. | :53:31. | |
Unsurprisingly, that's not how they see it at the Momentum | :53:32. | :53:33. | |
The buzz I'm getting from the meeting is enthusiasm - people | :53:34. | :53:37. | |
are excited by the upcoming election. | :53:38. | :53:39. | |
Like I said in that room tonight, some of us never thought we | :53:40. | :53:41. | |
would get the opportunity to do this in our lives, | :53:42. | :53:45. | |
and suddenly for that moment to arrive, it's like, it | :53:46. | :53:47. | |
The decision on who fights for Labour and where | :53:48. | :53:52. | |
now rests with the top brass, who say they'll have their men or | :53:53. | :53:55. | |
To discuss this, we're joined by Labour MP Ben Bradshaw, | :53:56. | :54:05. | |
who increased his majority back in 2015. | :54:06. | :54:10. | |
Welcome to the programme, Ben. Do you not now find yourself | :54:11. | :54:14. | |
position you predicted a few months position you predicted a few months | :54:15. | :54:19. | |
ago of being led into a disaster? That was during a leadership | :54:20. | :54:22. | |
election. But what's changed in terms of your assessment of Jeremy | :54:23. | :54:27. | |
Corbyn? Let's get a reality check. We are currently more than 20 | :54:28. | :54:31. | |
percentage points behind the Conservatives in the polls. That | :54:32. | :54:33. | |
landslide territory for the Tories, landslide territory for the Tories, | :54:34. | :54:37. | |
so anybody, for the sake of our democracy, who doesn't want a | :54:38. | :54:41. | |
the sake of our schools and the sake of our schools and | :54:42. | :54:53. | |
hospitals, or who is worried about the extreme version of Brexit the | :54:54. | :54:55. | |
Tories are pursuing, will do everything they can in this | :54:56. | :54:57. | |
election, wherever they live, to support the candidate with the | :54:58. | :54:59. | |
best chance of leading a conservative. Can your party change | :55:00. | :55:04. | |
radically in the next few months? It cannot but what I have been | :55:05. | :55:06. | |
campaigning on yesterday, we have more than twice the support in | :55:07. | :55:11. | |
Exeter on the first day of the campaign yesterday as on my local | :55:12. | :55:15. | |
record. People in Exeter will vote for the candidate they want to be | :55:16. | :55:19. | |
their MP for the next five years, they are not voting for a party | :55:20. | :55:22. | |
leader or a government. The result in Exeter will not affect the | :55:23. | :55:26. | |
national result, and Labour supporters and members across our | :55:27. | :55:30. | |
region will do their best to maximise the Labour vote and avoid | :55:31. | :55:35. | |
the terrible prospect of a landslide Conservative government completely | :55:36. | :55:38. | |
unchecked, taking its acts to our public services, our schools and | :55:39. | :55:43. | |
NHS, and pushing this extreme form of Brexit outside the single market | :55:44. | :55:46. | |
and the customs union, which would be extremely bad for prosperity, | :55:47. | :55:51. | |
jobs and investment in our region. Do you accept there is no prospect | :55:52. | :55:55. | |
of a Labour government would Jeremy Corbyn as Prime Minister? I am | :55:56. | :56:00. | |
asking you to get real. The reality is we are 20 points behind in the | :56:01. | :56:04. | |
polls. Don't forget some people may say opinion polls may be wrong, the | :56:05. | :56:09. | |
problem is in the past when they have been wrong, they have | :56:10. | :56:11. | |
underestimated the Conservative lead. That is where we are. We are | :56:12. | :56:17. | |
in a fight against the Tory landslide, and in the south-west we | :56:18. | :56:20. | |
are in a fight against a 1-party state. I think it would be terrible | :56:21. | :56:24. | |
for our democracy and the country and for all those people who need | :56:25. | :56:26. | |
some sort of scrutiny and challenge for what would be the most | :56:27. | :56:43. | |
right wing Conservative government in our country's history. Just | :56:44. | :56:45. | |
quickly, we were talking earlier about the idea of Progressive | :56:46. | :56:47. | |
Alliance, Greens standing in favour of Labour or Lib Dem candidates, do | :56:48. | :56:50. | |
you have sympathy with this? I don't know what is happening about that | :56:51. | :56:52. | |
but I have more faith in the intelligence of the British people | :56:53. | :56:55. | |
to do the right thing. In Exeter and Plymouth, if you don't want a hard | :56:56. | :56:58. | |
Brexiteer right wing Tory you vote for me or the Labour candidates in | :56:59. | :57:00. | |
Plymouth. Elsewhere the public are able to make up their own judgment | :57:01. | :57:03. | |
as to who has the best chance of beating the Conservatives, and I am | :57:04. | :57:07. | |
sure they will. Judith and Ernie, you are both in different ways | :57:08. | :57:11. | |
fishing potentially for Labour voters. | :57:12. | :57:23. | |
Just generally, I think Labour voters are not happy with Jeremy | :57:24. | :57:31. | |
Corbyn as leader. We are knocking on doors at the moment on the Cornwall | :57:32. | :57:35. | |
Council campaign and Labour voters are saying they will support us. | :57:36. | :57:41. | |
Quickly, Ernie, you are in a similar position with this ambition from the | :57:42. | :57:46. | |
Prime Minister to gain Labour voters in the north, Eurosceptic Labour | :57:47. | :57:49. | |
voters in the north, you are about the same thing? Not just in the | :57:50. | :57:54. | |
north to be honest. I did a couple of years on the Assembly line at | :57:55. | :58:10. | |
Ford in Dagenham. This has become not the Labour Party I knew as | :58:11. | :58:14. | |
El-Abd. Yes, Ben is right, there needs to be credible and strong | :58:15. | :58:16. | |
opposition. As I said earlier, the government is a done deal. You are | :58:17. | :58:19. | |
voting for a strong, credible opposition, checks and balances, and | :58:20. | :58:21. | |
if the vote Labour, Lib Dem, SNP, you will get us another referendum. | :58:22. | :58:23. | |
Quickly, Ben, do you have preferences for candidates in | :58:24. | :58:27. | |
Plymouth, which of course is generally in contention for labour? | :58:28. | :58:31. | |
I understand the excellent Luke Pollard has already been confirmed | :58:32. | :58:35. | |
as our candidate. He had a great result, came very close last time, | :58:36. | :58:38. | |
and I am sure I candidate in the other Plymouth seat will be of | :58:39. | :58:42. | |
equally high calibre and will work extremely hard. Ben, thank you very | :58:43. | :58:44. | |
much. Now our regular round-up | :58:45. | :58:45. | |
of the political week in 60 seconds. The Prime Minister says she'll | :58:46. | :58:54. | |
be visiting Cornwall ...but I recognise the importance | :58:55. | :58:56. | |
of small businesses in Cornwall, and I look forward to visiting | :58:57. | :59:02. | |
Cornwall in the next few weeks and being able to talk to him | :59:03. | :59:05. | |
and others about the importance A scrappage scheme for diesel cars | :59:06. | :59:08. | |
is in order, according to Devon MP and EFRA Committee chairman Neil | :59:09. | :59:15. | |
Parish. This is a policy with | :59:16. | :59:19. | |
significant public support, especially as we move, | :59:20. | :59:21. | |
dare I say, towards a general election, | :59:22. | :59:23. | |
although that's not in my speech. Calls for the law to allow Cornish | :59:24. | :59:25. | |
flags on numberplates I believe it would be a great way | :59:26. | :59:29. | |
to serve the new Great Britain that we want post-membership | :59:30. | :59:36. | |
of the EU. And North Cornwall MP Scott Mann | :59:37. | :59:39. | |
runs his first London Marathon. I'm hoping to raise ?3,000 | :59:40. | :59:44. | |
so I can give ?1,000 to each of my cottage hospitals, | :59:45. | :59:47. | |
so please sponsor me, Judith, you are a Cornish pier, | :59:48. | :00:07. | |
would you like a Cornish flag on your number plate? There are loads! | :00:08. | :00:13. | |
I have noticed this! I don't think you need a law to do this. It is the | :00:14. | :00:18. | |
debate on whether it is legal at the moment. I don't think it. The | :00:19. | :00:23. | |
Cornish people doing it! Ernie, to be fair, a couple of people were | :00:24. | :00:28. | |
interested in Cornish flags but the point was made by those who tabled | :00:29. | :00:33. | |
the debate that regional flags of counties, the White Rose of | :00:34. | :00:36. | |
Yorkshire for instance, any sympathy for that? As the only national party | :00:37. | :00:41. | |
spokesman for small business for Brexiteer -- who is a Brexiteer, the | :00:42. | :00:45. | |
rest are in the past, it would be a great boost for the number plate | :00:46. | :00:49. | |
industry. They would have to change them all. They do it in Australia | :00:50. | :00:54. | |
with different states. That sounds like government intervention. | :00:55. | :01:02. | |
Certainly not! LAUGHTER. Small-business. I can tell you Scott | :01:03. | :01:06. | |
Mann has completed the London Marathon. We must | :01:07. | :01:07. | |
on issues like the NHS. Run out of time. Andrew, back to you. | :01:08. | :01:16. | |
Now, Ukip have made their first significant policy announcement | :01:17. | :01:22. | |
of the election campaign today with a call for a ban on wearing | :01:23. | :01:27. | |
But is it a policy that will meet with the approval of the man | :01:28. | :01:34. | |
who bankrolled the party's last general election campaign? | :01:35. | :01:35. | |
Hello, Andrew. Let me see if I can clarify some things, are you a | :01:36. | :01:43. | |
member of Ukip? I a patron of Ukip so I don't stop being a member. So | :01:44. | :01:49. | |
you are still a member? I am, apparently for life. Are you still | :01:50. | :01:53. | |
hoping to bankroll Ukip? Not at the moment. Why is that? The internal | :01:54. | :02:00. | |
problems we have had in Ukip have been aired, and a lot needs to | :02:01. | :02:05. | |
happen in the party in terms of professionalising it and I think it | :02:06. | :02:09. | |
is ill-prepared for this general election. Are you going to run in | :02:10. | :02:14. | |
Clacton? I will be if selected. For Ukip? Yes. Have you been to Clacton? | :02:15. | :02:21. | |
I've been with Nigel Mansell on the campaign. You will run for a | :02:22. | :02:25. | |
constituency you've only been in once? Yes, why does that surprise | :02:26. | :02:31. | |
you? You know nothing about it. I've just recently decided to become the | :02:32. | :02:36. | |
candidate there. Did you know where it is? Of course I do, your piece | :02:37. | :02:40. | |
the other night was completely wrong. I said I knew where it was | :02:41. | :02:44. | |
but I didn't know much about it. Maybe the people of Clacton will | :02:45. | :02:51. | |
regard you as a carpetbagger? Why? Because you have never been there. | :02:52. | :02:57. | |
Most politicians are carpetbaggers and I will be there for the right | :02:58. | :03:01. | |
reasons. I thought it was because of your visceral hatred of Douglas | :03:02. | :03:06. | |
Carswell. He only lasted 24 hours after I announced my candidacy so we | :03:07. | :03:10. | |
will see what happens. The main thing I am going to Clacton on | :03:11. | :03:13. | |
Monday to meet the Ukip councillors, see what the issues are and see if | :03:14. | :03:16. | |
they want me as a candidate. They may not want me. Who do you think | :03:17. | :03:23. | |
you will be up against? The potential Conservative candidate. | :03:24. | :03:29. | |
Who in Ukip? I don't suppose anyone in Ukip will stand against me, I | :03:30. | :03:34. | |
wouldn't have thought. Really? I would have thought. Money talks! Why | :03:35. | :03:41. | |
do you say that? You talked about having a pirate radio station to | :03:42. | :03:45. | |
blast into Clacton so it is not covered by the election rules. | :03:46. | :03:47. | |
You've been talking about financing a sort of right-wing Momentum | :03:48. | :03:53. | |
movement. I just wonder, has politics now just become a | :03:54. | :03:58. | |
Richmond's hobby? From my perspective the reason I'm | :03:59. | :04:01. | |
interested in it is if you have looked at what has happened in the | :04:02. | :04:04. | |
country, it's clear the Conservatives will have a massive | :04:05. | :04:08. | |
majority. -- has politics become a rich man's hobby. Only putting up | :04:09. | :04:15. | |
candidates not against Brexit MPs. Is Ukip over? I don't think so. The | :04:16. | :04:22. | |
electoral maths is interesting because first-past-the-post | :04:23. | :04:23. | |
effectively could help Ukip in this example. Ukip got one MP with 4 | :04:24. | :04:34. | |
million votes. What we are seeing is the total collapse of Labour. In | :04:35. | :04:38. | |
that situation there are certain seats up north in Hartlepool and | :04:39. | :04:41. | |
other seats like that, the total collapse of the Labour Party could | :04:42. | :04:45. | |
help Ukip to win a few seats. Is Ukip over? It looks that way, yes. | :04:46. | :04:51. | |
They haven't made much of a dent in Labour's vote in the north, they | :04:52. | :04:54. | |
don't really have a defining issue anymore and all the polls we have | :04:55. | :04:58. | |
seen published since the election was called show Ukip vote is going | :04:59. | :05:03. | |
to the Conservatives. Is Ukip over? It always happens when the | :05:04. | :05:07. | |
Conservative Party goes far to the right, really hard Brexit, there is | :05:08. | :05:11. | |
no space for BMP, Ukip and all of that. Are you associating the BNP | :05:12. | :05:17. | |
with Ukip? Or that, movements to the right of the Conservatives get eaten | :05:18. | :05:21. | |
up one the Conservatives move as far right as Theresa May has done. I | :05:22. | :05:26. | |
think what your enterprise shows is how it's really time to reform | :05:27. | :05:31. | |
funding of political parties. It is disgraceful that very rich people | :05:32. | :05:36. | |
can move in and bankroll the Brexit campaigned to the extent that they | :05:37. | :05:39. | |
did. We need proper state funding of parties. The union is bankrolling | :05:40. | :05:46. | |
Labour. I assume the reform would include trade unions? Indeed. Ukip | :05:47. | :05:53. | |
has lost its talisman in Nigel Farage, it was a one-man party, I | :05:54. | :05:57. | |
have to say, people like Tim. Having voted for Brexit its reason to be | :05:58. | :06:02. | |
has gone. It will still take votes from Labour and the Conservatives | :06:03. | :06:06. | |
but probably only from the don't knows. There are seats in certain | :06:07. | :06:10. | |
places where if enough Tories back Ukip dated when. Hartlepool is an | :06:11. | :06:16. | |
example. Were the Tories will never win. The demise of Ukip has been | :06:17. | :06:19. | |
forecasted many times before but I don't see a Tory candidate winning | :06:20. | :06:23. | |
in a place like Hartlepool. So we could see, and I think we will see, | :06:24. | :06:27. | |
the total collapse of the Labour vote. We shall see. The leader of | :06:28. | :06:32. | |
the party of which you say you are still a patron, Paul Nuttall, said | :06:33. | :06:36. | |
he would ban the Burcea and the niqab in public, what is your view? | :06:37. | :06:44. | |
-- the niqab and the Burcea? I'm not in agreement with that. If it is a | :06:45. | :06:49. | |
security issue at airports or public transport it could be acceptable but | :06:50. | :06:53. | |
I'm not in favour of curtailing people's writes. You have gone | :06:54. | :06:56. | |
further than him, haven't you? You tweeted you wanted to ban Muslim | :06:57. | :07:01. | |
immigration. In my view the problem we have had with the lack of | :07:02. | :07:04. | |
integration in certain communities has come about through mass | :07:05. | :07:08. | |
open-door immigration. If you are a must win you wouldn't be allowed in? | :07:09. | :07:12. | |
What I said in the tweet was I think they should be a ban on | :07:13. | :07:17. | |
immigration... You said Muslim immigration. That's what I believe. | :07:18. | :07:23. | |
If you are a world famous doctor coming to help one of our big | :07:24. | :07:26. | |
teaching hospitals in this country because you are a Muslim you could | :07:27. | :07:29. | |
not get in? We have to start somewhere, there are huge problems | :07:30. | :07:33. | |
in areas where 20% of the population don't speak the language, they | :07:34. | :07:38. | |
haven't integrated. You should read the rest of the tweet, it is control | :07:39. | :07:44. | |
of immigration from a 10-year ban on unskilled immigration. The first | :07:45. | :07:47. | |
thing you said was to ban Muslim immigration, it is in black and | :07:48. | :07:51. | |
white. I have said that, I do not dispute that. I was questioning | :07:52. | :07:55. | |
that. There is my answer, you cannot tell somebody's will adjust freedoms | :07:56. | :07:59. | |
but what you can do is stop adding to the problem. Doesn't that sound a | :08:00. | :08:05. | |
bit like the BNP? It's as like BNP and like Trump. Its, we hate | :08:06. | :08:09. | |
Muslims, fine, if that is what you are standing for, that is clear. The | :08:10. | :08:14. | |
final word is we have had open-door mass immigration from the | :08:15. | :08:16. | |
Conservative Party, we've had it from the Labour Party and its fine | :08:17. | :08:19. | |
if you are in north London to say these things, if you live in Oldham | :08:20. | :08:23. | |
and your community has been radically changed and you have a | :08:24. | :08:27. | |
whole population not integrating in, not speaking the language, something | :08:28. | :08:30. | |
has got to be done. We had better leave it there. Thank you for coming | :08:31. | :08:35. | |
in. I am en route to Clacton. We will see how you get on there. | :08:36. | :08:38. | |
Now, Lib Dem leader Tim Farron was on TV earlier today | :08:39. | :08:40. | |
and he was asked again about an issue that he's been | :08:41. | :08:43. | |
asked about repeatedly - his attitude to homosexuality. | :08:44. | :08:45. | |
when they asked you whether gay sex was a sin. | :08:46. | :08:55. | |
Come on, Robert, I've been asked this question loads | :08:56. | :08:57. | |
few days and I have been clear, even in the House of Commons, | :08:58. | :09:01. | |
It's possible I'm not the only person getting tired | :09:02. | :09:11. | |
Probably, but then why don't you just close it down? | :09:12. | :09:15. | |
Toby Young, why does he get into such a mess over this? I mean, he is | :09:16. | :09:27. | |
leader of the Liberal Democrats. Its 2017. I guess the reason he keeps | :09:28. | :09:31. | |
refusing to answer that question is because what the implication is that | :09:32. | :09:35. | |
he does think that homosexual acts are sinful, and he cannot bring | :09:36. | :09:42. | |
himself not to say that, or to say what Robert Peston and others want | :09:43. | :09:45. | |
him to say because he is an evangelical Christian who converted | :09:46. | :09:50. | |
at the age of 20, 21, and clearly he really struggles with this issue and | :09:51. | :09:52. | |
I think it will be really difficult for the Lib Dems to promote, or even | :09:53. | :09:57. | |
Lib Dem candidates like Vince Cable, to promote the idea of the | :09:58. | :10:00. | |
Progressive Alliance even though Tim has ruled it out, if he is not | :10:01. | :10:04. | |
prepared to say I don't think homosexual acts are sinful. What is | :10:05. | :10:13. | |
your view? It is disastrous if that is what he really thinks but Preston | :10:14. | :10:16. | |
did not push the hard. I'm not sure he understood the difference about | :10:17. | :10:18. | |
the question between gay sex and being gay. I think he just thought | :10:19. | :10:21. | |
he was going on saying I'm not anti-gay. He needs to command | :10:22. | :10:25. | |
immediately and clarify it. If you are right and he does actually think | :10:26. | :10:29. | |
it is a sin he is in real trouble. There is a slight parallel with what | :10:30. | :10:33. | |
police said before about Jeremy Corbyn, how his unilateral nuclear | :10:34. | :10:37. | |
policy would appeal to the hard core of the left. The problem for Tim | :10:38. | :10:42. | |
Farron with what he is saying here, while he is an evangelical | :10:43. | :10:47. | |
Christian, this will not appeal to traditional Liberal Democrats. An | :10:48. | :10:54. | |
LGBT community member cannot possibly vote for an MP who believes | :10:55. | :10:59. | |
that a sexual act between homosexuals is sinful. He has not | :11:00. | :11:02. | |
made that clear. Of course, he wants to stop Brexit as well so he is | :11:03. | :11:06. | |
neither liberal nor democratic. He will have seven weeks to make it | :11:07. | :11:09. | |
clear because I am sure he will be asked again. We have the chairman of | :11:10. | :11:14. | |
the Conservative Party on earlier, Polly. An important figure for the | :11:15. | :11:18. | |
Tory campaign. What did you make of what he said? I don't think he will | :11:19. | :11:23. | |
have him on very often, he didn't do brilliantly. I think they will bring | :11:24. | :11:26. | |
back chemical Ali, Michael Fallon, he can say anything with a straight | :11:27. | :11:31. | |
face, he can say black is white. Michael Fallon, chemical Ali? Why do | :11:32. | :11:36. | |
you say that? He can absolutely say black is white. For instance if you | :11:37. | :11:42. | |
look back at what he said, you challenged him about the energy | :11:43. | :11:49. | |
policy, when Ed Miliband came out with it, he said any kind of freeze | :11:50. | :11:54. | |
would stop investment, the lights will go out. You have him on, he | :11:55. | :11:58. | |
will say the exact opposite. He is magic at that. But I don't think | :11:59. | :12:04. | |
your guy today was up to the job. If Michael Fallon was chemical Ali, or | :12:05. | :12:11. | |
we should say chemical Fally, Patrick was more like comical Ali. | :12:12. | :12:17. | |
The whole Iraq war is rushing back at me. He is the warm up comedian, | :12:18. | :12:21. | |
there is another six weeks to go, just getting things started. What | :12:22. | :12:26. | |
did you think? I don't think he was too bad, it was difficult for him to | :12:27. | :12:30. | |
say exactly what was in the 2050 manifesto is going to be replicated | :12:31. | :12:34. | |
in the Conservatives' manifesto during this general election, he | :12:35. | :12:37. | |
doesn't want to be seen rowing back on stuff but on the other hand I | :12:38. | :12:40. | |
don't think he can conceal the fact they will be far fewer commitments | :12:41. | :12:44. | |
in this Conservative manifesto than in the last one, as you and I know, | :12:45. | :12:48. | |
it was full of rash promises last time because they thought they would | :12:49. | :12:56. | |
have to trade a lot of them away in the negotiations with the Liberal | :12:57. | :12:59. | |
Democrats to form a second coalition so they are saddled with policies | :13:00. | :13:01. | |
they don't particularly want to be hemmed in by. The forthcoming | :13:02. | :13:03. | |
Conservative manifesto will be much lighter and shorter with fewer | :13:04. | :13:06. | |
commitments. Different? Some stuff jumped from the 2050 manifesto? I | :13:07. | :13:10. | |
think so but we will see a commitment to run schools to | :13:11. | :13:13. | |
overcome that hurdle in the next parliament and I don't think, in | :13:14. | :13:16. | |
spite of what you think, Polly, that it will be a hard tack to the right. | :13:17. | :13:20. | |
I think if anything the mood music of the Conservative manifesto will | :13:21. | :13:25. | |
be a centrist inclusive one. The mood music will be because the | :13:26. | :13:29. | |
specifics would be there. She is good at saying governing for | :13:30. | :13:32. | |
everybody and the many and not the few but when you look at the hard | :13:33. | :13:37. | |
facts of what her and Hammond's budget looks like, you look at her | :13:38. | :13:40. | |
hard Brexit, it's a very different story. Or that, the music has | :13:41. | :13:48. | |
stopped for this week! Thank you. I will be back next week at the normal | :13:49. | :13:55. | |
time of 11am on Sunday morning. On BBC One The Daily Politics is back | :13:56. | :13:59. | |
at midday tomorrow and we will be on every day next week on BBC Two. | :14:00. | :14:03. | |
Remember, if it's Sunday, it is The Sunday Politics. | :14:04. | :14:33. | |
There'll be a couple of hours of just fantastic music, really, | :14:34. | :14:35. | |
all the Ella classics, as well as some very special guests, | :14:36. | :14:38. | |
we have Mica Paris, Imelda May, Dame Cleo Laine | :14:39. | :14:41. | |
'There's a side to Rory that the public doesn't see. | :14:42. | :14:47. | |
'Rory has suspected for some time that he may have ADHD. | :14:48. | :14:50. | |
Here we have the first hydrogen bomb that went into service with | :14:51. | :15:00. |