14/10/2012 Sunday Politics South

In the South: the system for paying council tax benefit is changing and

there will be less money available and that means thousands could see

Apology for the loss of subtitles for 2172 seconds

Welcome. My name is Peter Henley. Today, changes to Council Tax

Benefit. There is less money available and how it is paid out is

to be decided on locally, so it could depend on the way you live.

First, let's meet the politicians who will join us. The Conservative

leader of the council. And John Tanner is a Labour councillor in

Oxford. Since 2009, Oxford has been paying an living wage rather than

the minimum wage. We are paying at least �8 to staff and we ask

contract has to do the same. Housing costs are horrendously high

and we want to make sure that people get a wage they can live on.

Presumably, contract has say they will pay the going rate. A and then

they will not get the contract. We want to extend this so everybody

gets a fair wage. Surely it costs the council a great deal? No. We

get better quality staff and staff who stay longer. We are employing

an increasing number of apprentices and this is against the background

of local-authority workers are having their wages frozen for three

years and we have to do something. Buckinghamshire has the greatest

number of volunteers have any council is that right? In terms of

head of population. You are busy getting people in for nothing and

John is paying them more. We are not getting people in for nothing.

There is a reality check. At times when local authorities are tight

for money, there is a trade on the number of people you can employ.

And the amount you can pay them. Southampton has gone back to Labour

where they have that attitude, and may have now had to settle all the

money they tried to reduce in employee pay. We are not cutting

people's paint. We pay a good salary. Most council employees get

annual increments. Wages have not been frozen for a lot of people,

every year they stay, they get an extra amount of money based on time

they have served. We are trying to move away from paying according to

the number of years they have sat at the desk to a system of paying

for performance. That sounds a more modern approach. It is one we have

adopted in Oxford and negotiated with the trade unions. We do not

pay regular increments, we say we have efficiency targets across the

council. This last year, because the targets were met we have been

able to pay staff a flat 400 and something. We are doing that on an

individual basis, saying it is performance that determines the pay

rise rather than doing something that his blanket. If you are a

cash-strapped council there has often been a way of learning by a

turning garden waste and leaves into compost. The Environment

Agency has put a spanner in the works saying that street sweeping

yes can be contaminated and council should not do this. Were you

surprised when you were told you could not continue doing this?

were. The Environment Agency report came out on the 1st May and at that

stage as with all councils we had set the budget. We had a new

collection system for household waste and this was a surprise.

is lucrative. Taking that and turning to -- it into compost makes

sense and it provided a revenue. did not give us a revenue, but it

meant that material did not go to landfill and so we did not have to

pay landfill charges. It was going to compost on a site in Oxfordshire.

That is for the company who deals with the waste from these

authorities. They have stopped accepting that because of the

restriction on the rules. We have got a cost of over �100,000 from

this. That is until we can find a solution. Presumably you are not

the only council. We are not. There is a movement for every council to

challenge what Environment Agency had done. And I think something

will happen about testing. Probably, at this time of year, believes

would be fine. Maybe some of the other things taken off the streets,

things taken from gullies, might be contaminated. They say heavy-metal

contamination. You could imagine something scraped up from the

street outside your house is different from the reeking ofs from

the lawn. Why cannot they -- -- rakings. A they came in with this

change without any chance of testing the materials or looking at

a process that could be done to tidy this up. That is so it could

be composted. We are the same. Local authorities are up in arms

about this. If there had been consultation... They have a point.

We do not want to put contaminated compost on two people's farms in

Oxfordshire. You think you would have heard about it before. If you

had cadmium and copper in this you would not know until years later.

They should be consultation, you should not changed the rules

suddenly. In fairness, the Environment Agency is saying that

so much litter is dumped, with glass, plastic, rubbish that is

mixed in. When it is turned into compost and put on land potentially

growing agricultural products, there is contamination. I

understand what they are saying. Buckinghamshire, this accounts for

1% of our total waste that we collect and it is a relatively

small issue. The big issue is the cost of landfill. Most people think

that when waste is collected, it disappears. You are paying �64 per

tonne for this to go in to land full and it is going up to �80 for

every council -- landfill. It is becoming a big cost. Today suggest

what you should do instead? They are starting to talk about testing.

Maybe there is a position we could reach to sort out the leaves, which

would probably be OK at this time of year. Not only is it cost of

landfill, but most councils have tried to reduce going to landfill

because we will have find so as well and the landfill tonnage

targets go down each year and we have more houses. We have this plus

the cost and the downstream issue. It is the issue of the �100,000 we

will not be able to spend on other services. Thanks for talking to us

about it. A dog social care and had to pay

for it is something every politician would like to crack --

adult social care. One programme sent a reporter into a care home.

They think I am the strawberry man. They say the strawberry man has

been and dad knows it was me. He has been working from 16 to 75, and

then they try to take his money. It is terrible after he has played in

all of this time and fought for his country abroad and at home, was

injured in the war and in hospital in the war, and then they take his

money. I am sorry if my voice is going, but it takes me up thinking

about it. I have your lunch. I need to help cut your meat. One in three

of us over 65 will suffer from dementia and that brings challenges

for everyone. You look at him sometimes when he is shouting and

his dementia is making him cross. Underneath that, he is a lovely man

who will talk about fishing and building and about his life. With

an ageing population, who pays and who cares?

Councils do care because you are taking care of people who come to

you, but you are paying less for a lot of residential care than

private individuals. As far as Oxford City is concerned, we do not

have direct responsibility, it is the county council. It is a growing

problem and we get less money from the Government. In Oxfordshire,

they are talking about increasing charges for day centres from �10

per day up to �25 per day. I have fears it will lead to the closure

of the day centres and you will have even more elderly people who

have to be supported by the NHS and it will cost more. There are real

problems. The question about fairness, Martin? In terms of the

rates paid, as a county council we buy in bulk and buy blocks of beds

and get a lower rate than if you go in for a particular individual

going into care. There is a demographic challenge facing us in

the south of England. As a population, we have an ageing

population which is an enormous cost. Most people do not realise

one-third of the county council budget goes on looking after it old

people. Almost �100 million per year. We have to find a way as more

people grow older how we can cope with that in constrained budgets.

For us, rather than move people to care homes, we help them to stay in

their home for longer and to retain the self-respect of independent

living. We have a problem in Oxford that elderly people often need

their homes adapted. The city council is happy to do them, the

attractions, but there is a waiting list. This will get worse. It is a

demographic time bomb. The Government has to get a grip with

how we found this. And except that older people are healthier for

longer. Look at us! Look at the people who are not healthy and how

we deal with them. Bangs for your thoughts on that. You can see more

of that report on a special programme -- thank you.

5.9 million people in Britain get this payment making it one of the

most widely claimed means tested benefits. I am talking about the

council tax benefit. As of 2013, it will be what the Government says is

localised and that means local councils will decide he gets it as

opposed to the national criteria. Just one catch, until now, councils

have been reimbursed by the Government for what it costs them

and from now warned they will not be and the money is being cut by

10% and all councils will have to think about what their local scheme

should look luck. We consider the options.

Tony Jones' pigeons have almost as much space as he has in his one-

bedroom flat. This is not the posh end of town, but even the cheapest

property will cost almost �1,000 in council tax. Childhood polio left

him on benefits and so that is not a worry but things are about to

change. Council tax is covered on the benefits. I would find it hard,

but it is like anything, you live on the amount you are given. By

living on the amount you are given, you have to make sacrifices.

town has people who struggle to meet the council tax demand. Just

as Whitehall cuts the money, it is giving councils to help them, the

number could be on the rise due to the flatlining economy. It's is a

challenge. It is an element that will add hard things to people

already suffering. That is why we should take time to look at how we

implement this. But in council tax on empty homes will go some way to

make up the shortfall -- putting. It will not completely plugged the

gap. The proposal being considered would leave little under 1,000

people here worse-off. Almost half of those of people who live in

slightly bigger homes and in future the council wants to peg the

benefit paid to what someone living in an average-sized house can claim.

A further 322 people would lose their benefits altogether and at

the moment they are paid �5 a week and the council theory is that they

would not miss the money if it were no longer there. The authority is

already looking at making further cuts in the future. In future,

everyone might have to pay 10% of the Bill, which might not see mum -

- much, but for this single mother, juggling College and bringing up a

family, everything counts. Everything is costing more. Nappies

cost a fortune. �8 for 24 nappies. Food generally, the prices have

gone up so much. It is a struggle. And if council tax becomes

something you have to factor in, what happens then? My children will

be eating beans on toast. At a time when David Cameron and George

Osborne are giving the top rate a tax cut it is saying they do not

care about families, unity, and the country being together and proud of

itself. That is what it says to me. I am concerned about the effect on

local residents of all the changes coming together. Nobody can really

assess the depth and reality of the changes, we can only deal with them

as they come along and design the best scheme to give people time to

adjust. These are hard hitting changes and they will have to have

adjustments. But that is cold comfort across town. Rather than

understand what life is like for families, the mother of this single

parents said it is to demonise them. I have two daughters claiming full

council tax and both of them are trying hard to bring their children

up and get an education say they can work and I think it will be

hard for them, and they struggle already. I am struggling and I

would have to help them even more. It would be difficult. A lot of

people in this area, they are on council tax benefit and I think it

will take money away from their children which is the wrong thing

to do. That is tough. Some ideas here, though. The 10% reduction. Do

not pay to have it is less than �5 per week. Do you think the 10% can

be achieved? It is a tough one. You have to put this in the national

context. We are spending �90 billion per year on benefits for

working-age people, which is unsustainable. It cannot be right.

The Government has to get to grips with that. It is a question of

government choice. It is not. Something has to be done about the

amount spent. It has created a climate in which it pays not to

work in many cases. We need to address that. We are talking about

people who do work. They get council benefits. You need to move

decisions closer to local people and putting it to councils who can

take decisions in their locality has to be the right thing. Are you

happy to do this, it has been landed on you, to take local

decisions, but to cut the amount by 10%? Of the council tax benefit? It

is really tough. Some councils are having to do. Look at the Labour

alternative. Every time they say make no changes and make no cuts

and the reality is Ed Balls says he is prepared to take tough decisions

but opposes every single reduction and that is the Labour Party

attitude to everything. Oxford, you are maintaining this, and it is

costing, but that will mean cuts. It will cost Oxford City Council �1

million per year, this 10% cut. Each year? Yes, it is significant.

Local councils can take that decision. A decision to cut? What

the Labour council in Oxford is doing is we are planning to make up

the difference. It is practically difficult to chase people for 10%

of their council tax. If we do not make up the difference and pay it

to people, we will lose the money. I have never denied it is difficult,

but there is no alternative to reforming welfare. We will have to

leave that. We will have our regular round-up in 60 seconds.

It was a stubborn start week with new government money to end

bottlenecks on the roads in the south and the information

superhighway in Swindon was boosted with news they will have four g

broad band before the rest of us. But Liverpool plans to go ahead

with cruise-ship operations with an angry response from rivals in

Southampton. The UK government has to say to Liverpool you have not

got the green light for cruises and you should not be doing them.

Concern about the pace of progress for solar power. This development

in Sussex could be the second largest in Europe and it caused

concern among residents. It is sad to ruin any remaining countryside,

but that is just me. �1.3 billion invested in Reading by a global IT

firm and Thames Water announced a tunnel, the investment habits

finally being turned on in the south. -- Investment tap.

Signs of improvement in the local economy? I think so. As councils,

will you see a benefit from that? We are not going to turn away much-

needed investment. We have British Gas investing in Oxford. Councils

have to be where to make it easier for the company that invests and

then there will be costs with housing and schools and the rest.

Very supportive of jobs, in the structure is important. It cannot

just be funded locally and we need central government to support us

with roads, to relieve congestion that comes with this and the other

big area is broadband. The issue of rolling out good quality, high-