Browse content similar to 19/01/2014. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Morning, folks. Welcome to the Sunday Politics. Nick Clegg says | :00:37. | :00:44. | |
Chris Rennard must apologise. "What for?", say his friends. We'll ask | :00:45. | :00:49. | |
senior Lib Dem minister Danny Alexander whose side he's on. | :00:50. | :00:54. | |
What about the voters? What do they make of the Lib Dems? We hear the | :00:55. | :00:57. | |
views of a Sunday Politics focus group. | :00:58. | :01:09. | |
In the South: Should we be looking to the 1950s for a solution to our | :01:10. | :01:16. | |
house`building crisis? Building a whole new town could be a | :01:17. | :01:19. | |
better answer than piecemeal developments. | :01:20. | :01:22. | |
Portsmouth MP Penny Mordaunt's plunge from the highboard from who | :01:23. | :01:24. | |
else but the Minister for Portsmouth. | :01:25. | :01:27. | |
And with me, as always, the best and the brightest political panel in the | :01:28. | :01:32. | |
business: and in London, Boris Johnson has pledged to recruit more | :01:33. | :01:35. | |
volunteers. Nick Watt, Helen Lewis and Janan Ganesh, who'll be tweeting | :01:36. | :01:46. | |
throughout the programme. First this morning, Nick Clegg is | :01:47. | :01:49. | |
considering a fresh investigation into the behaviour of the party s | :01:50. | :01:51. | |
former chief executive, Lord Rennard. Last week, a lawyer | :01:52. | :02:01. | |
appointed by the party decided that no action could be taken against | :02:02. | :02:04. | |
him, but that women who had accused the Lib Dem peer of inappropriate | :02:05. | :02:06. | |
behaviour "were broadly credible". More than 100 party activists are | :02:07. | :02:17. | |
demanding an apology. Chris Rennard say he's nothing to apologise for | :02:18. | :02:20. | |
and the party whip must be returned to him. Helen, this is not going | :02:21. | :02:24. | |
away. It is turning into a crisis for the Lib Dems? They have only got | :02:25. | :02:30. | |
seven female MPs. There is no female Cabinet Minister. There is a | :02:31. | :02:36. | |
reasonable chance that after the next election there might in no | :02:37. | :02:41. | |
female Liberal Democrat MPs at all. A scandal like this will not | :02:42. | :02:45. | |
encourage women into the party. Have they made a complete mess of it You | :02:46. | :02:50. | |
feel for Nick Clegg, because he launched an utterly rigorous | :02:51. | :02:56. | |
process. He called in a QC. The QC looked at it and decided that the | :02:57. | :03:02. | |
evidence did not meet the burden of proof in a criminal trial. But | :03:03. | :03:06. | |
clearly he felt that the evidence from these women was very credible | :03:07. | :03:10. | |
and serious. He said it was broadly credible. Clearly it was serious. | :03:11. | :03:18. | |
Rennard is being advised by Lord Carlisle, fellow Liberal Democrat | :03:19. | :03:22. | |
peer, who is giving purely legal advice. He is saying it has not | :03:23. | :03:27. | |
reached that edge-mac, so do not apologise. This is a political | :03:28. | :03:34. | |
issue, so the agony continues. Nick Clegg was hoping to keep the party | :03:35. | :03:39. | |
whip withdrawn. But they did not launch an enquiry, the Webster | :03:40. | :03:43. | |
enquired it was not an enquiry, it was a legal opinion. You're right, | :03:44. | :03:50. | |
it was an internal opinion. The Lib Dems distinguished themselves from | :03:51. | :03:53. | |
the other two parties not with policy, but with ethics. They | :03:54. | :03:58. | |
presented themselves as being cleaner, and in possession of more | :03:59. | :04:01. | |
Robert Jay than Labour and the Conservatives. That will be harder | :04:02. | :04:16. | |
to do now. -- more probity. There are a Lib Dem peers that are more | :04:17. | :04:19. | |
relaxed about taking him back and letting him pick up the party whip. | :04:20. | :04:24. | |
That is the problem. There is a generational issue. The older Lib | :04:25. | :04:30. | |
Dems in the House of Lords, the kind of thing, he did not do anything | :04:31. | :04:35. | |
that wrong. The younger activists and those outside the House of | :04:36. | :04:40. | |
Lords, they think it is a pollen. Yes, there is definitely a sort of | :04:41. | :04:44. | |
what you are complaining about sort of thing. That is symptomatic of a | :04:45. | :04:49. | |
cultural difference. The report last year found that they tried to manage | :04:50. | :04:56. | |
the allegations. They did not do what any company would do if there | :04:57. | :04:59. | |
was an allegation of sexual harassment. If there had not in the | :05:00. | :05:05. | |
by-election in Eastleigh, this story may not have got the attention it | :05:06. | :05:09. | |
did. Channel four news are the one that really drove this. Without | :05:10. | :05:14. | |
their reporting, this might not have come out. It is not going to go | :05:15. | :05:19. | |
away, because the issue of whether he gets the party whip back will | :05:20. | :05:29. | |
come week. -- will come up this week. | :05:30. | :05:32. | |
So it's not been a great week for the Liberal Democrats and none of | :05:33. | :05:35. | |
this will help public perceptions of a party already struggling in the | :05:36. | :05:38. | |
polls. In a moment, I'll be talking to the second most senior Liberal | :05:39. | :05:41. | |
Democrat in the land, Danny Alexander. First, Adam Fleming went | :05:42. | :05:44. | |
to Glasgow to find out what voters there made of the party. | :05:45. | :05:47. | |
Let's put the Lib Dems under the microscope in Glasgow. We have | :05:48. | :05:49. | |
recruited some Glaswegians who have voted for them, and some who have | :05:50. | :05:54. | |
not. Hello, John. Let's get started. I will be watching them through the | :05:55. | :05:57. | |
one-way mirror, along with the former Liberal Democrat MP John | :05:58. | :06:00. | |
Barrett. Let's get to the heart of the matter straightaway. If the Lib | :06:01. | :06:04. | |
Dems were a biscuit, what would they be? Tunnock's Teacake. Hard on the | :06:05. | :06:08. | |
outside but soft in the middle. They give in. There is no strength of | :06:09. | :06:15. | |
character there. They just give in to whoever. Ouch. Rich Tea. A bit | :06:16. | :06:23. | |
bland and boring. Melts and crumbles under any sort of heat and pressure. | :06:24. | :06:31. | |
Morrison's own brand of biscuit not top of the range like Marks | :06:32. | :06:34. | |
Spencer or Sainsbury's or Waitrose. A custard cream, sandwiched between | :06:35. | :06:44. | |
David Cameron and the Tories. I think they were concerned that they | :06:45. | :06:47. | |
had one exterior, but something else was really inside. They did not find | :06:48. | :06:50. | |
it too definitive, too clear, too concise, too tasty, too appealing. | :06:51. | :07:00. | |
Which means? It is a worry. If that is their gut reaction, literally, | :07:01. | :07:05. | |
let's find out what is behind it. The context of them being stuck | :07:06. | :07:08. | |
between a rock and a hard place for them as a party, I feel slightly | :07:09. | :07:15. | |
sorry for them. I think people who voted for them will think they are | :07:16. | :07:19. | |
victims as well, being sold down the river by going to the coalition I | :07:20. | :07:23. | |
think the ones, particularly student fees, that was an important one to a | :07:24. | :07:29. | |
lot of people. People felt cheated. I agree. Just going back on that, so | :07:30. | :07:33. | |
publicly and openly, it makes you think, well, what do they stand for? | :07:34. | :07:42. | |
It is trust. Harsh. But our group is feeling quite upbeat about the state | :07:43. | :07:46. | |
of the economy. What have the Lib Dems contributed to that? I am not | :07:47. | :07:53. | |
quite sure. It is George Osborne, a Conservative, who is the Chancellor, | :07:54. | :07:59. | |
so it is mostly down to him. The Liberal Democrats are mostly on | :08:00. | :08:03. | |
their coat tails, if you know what I mean. Have the Lib Dems done | :08:04. | :08:07. | |
anything, anyone? I think the Liberal Democrats were responsible | :08:08. | :08:09. | |
for increasing the tax allowance, ?10,000 for next year. I think they | :08:10. | :08:14. | |
have played a major role in that. Yes. I am glad somebody noticed | :08:15. | :08:22. | |
that. We will have helped everyone who is receiving a salary, and it is | :08:23. | :08:25. | |
interesting that nobody has mentioned that. Now, let's talk | :08:26. | :08:40. | |
about personalities. Everyone knows him, but what about say, this guy? | :08:41. | :08:44. | |
Alexander. Danny, they got it straightaway. I actually quite like | :08:45. | :08:47. | |
him. I think he talks very clearly and it is easy to understand what he | :08:48. | :08:50. | |
says. Fellow redhead Charles Kennedy is popular as well. He is very | :08:51. | :08:58. | |
charismatic and it is through him that I voted Liberal the last few | :08:59. | :09:04. | |
times. But who is this? I recognise him but I cannot tell you his name. | :09:05. | :09:08. | |
That is the party's leader in Scotland, Willie Rennie, and the | :09:09. | :09:11. | |
party's role in the upcoming referendum on independence draws a | :09:12. | :09:14. | |
blank as well. It does not feel like they have featured, it is SNP and | :09:15. | :09:21. | |
Labour and Conservative. They are last in a four horse race. We have | :09:22. | :09:36. | |
been talking about the biggest issue in Scottish politics, independence | :09:37. | :09:39. | |
and the referendum and the Lib Dems are nowhere. They are not mentioned | :09:40. | :09:42. | |
and they seem to think it is all about Labour and the SNP. The Lib | :09:43. | :09:46. | |
Dems are part of the Better Together campaign and we are being drowned | :09:47. | :09:49. | |
out among that. Looking to the future, what messages do voters have | :09:50. | :09:54. | |
for the Lib Dems? Get a backbone. Do not go back on your policies or your | :09:55. | :10:00. | |
word. Be strong and decisive. If you will pardon the expression, man up. | :10:01. | :10:08. | |
DIY, do it yourself. Do not award bankers and other people for | :10:09. | :10:15. | |
failure. Stand up. Be your own person, party. If that focus group | :10:16. | :10:19. | |
represented the whole country, what would the result for the Lib Dems be | :10:20. | :10:25. | |
at 2015 in the election? If they get the message across between now and | :10:26. | :10:30. | |
then, the result could be OK. If they do not get the message across, | :10:31. | :10:33. | |
the result could be disaster. Maybe they would do a lot better on their | :10:34. | :10:40. | |
own. I do not think you are seeing the true Lib Dems because they are | :10:41. | :10:43. | |
in the coalition. They maybe deserve another chance. Crucially for the | :10:44. | :10:47. | |
Lib Dems, that means there is some hope, but there is also plenty of | :10:48. | :10:51. | |
anger, some disappoint, and a bit of bafflement as well. | :10:52. | :11:00. | |
And watching that with me, senior Liberal Democrat and Chief Secretary | :11:01. | :11:04. | |
to the Treasury Danny Alexander Welcome to the programme. One of the | :11:05. | :11:08. | |
things that comes through from the focus group is that if there is any | :11:09. | :11:12. | |
credit around for the economic recovery, it is the Tories that are | :11:13. | :11:18. | |
getting it, and you are not? What can you do about that? The first | :11:19. | :11:22. | |
thing to say is that the economy would not be recovering if it was | :11:23. | :11:26. | |
not for the Liberal Democrats. If it was not for our decision right | :11:27. | :11:32. | |
beginning in 2010 to form a strong, stable coalition government that to | :11:33. | :11:36. | |
deal with the problems, we would still be in the mess that Labour | :11:37. | :11:40. | |
left us with. Why are you not getting the credit? That was one | :11:41. | :11:45. | |
focus group. It was interesting to hear opinions. We have to work very | :11:46. | :11:52. | |
hard to get across the message that the economy would not be recovering | :11:53. | :11:57. | |
without the Liberal Democrats. People would not be seeing the | :11:58. | :12:00. | |
largest income tax cuts for a generation without the Liberal | :12:01. | :12:05. | |
Democrats. The ?10,000 threshold that one of the people referred to | :12:06. | :12:08. | |
is coming into peoples pay packets this year. Lots of people recognise | :12:09. | :12:15. | |
that. There was the one person in the focus groups. This is your | :12:16. | :12:22. | |
measure of success, raising the people at which people pay income | :12:23. | :12:26. | |
tax. But most of the voters do not even give you credit for that. The | :12:27. | :12:31. | |
role that we haven't British politics as a party, is that we are | :12:32. | :12:35. | |
the only party that can be trusted to deliver a fair society and a | :12:36. | :12:40. | |
strong economy. People know they cannot trust the Labour Party. We | :12:41. | :12:44. | |
saw it again from Ed Miliband this morning. You cannot trust the Labour | :12:45. | :12:53. | |
Party with the nation's finances. It may well be your policy, the income | :12:54. | :12:57. | |
tax threshold, but it is the Tories that are getting the credit? I do | :12:58. | :13:02. | |
not think that is true. I have spent lots of time meeting photos and lots | :13:03. | :13:06. | |
of people recognise that if it was not for the Liberal Democrats, | :13:07. | :13:10. | |
people would not be seeing those tax cuts. We are helping disadvantaged | :13:11. | :13:16. | |
children in schools. It is right that we have to work very hard | :13:17. | :13:20. | |
between now and polling day to do several things, to make sure that we | :13:21. | :13:24. | |
secure the recovery, there can be no complacency. The economic recovery | :13:25. | :13:29. | |
is in its early stages and we need to make sure it is sustainable. We | :13:30. | :13:33. | |
need to make sure the benefits of the recovery are shared out people | :13:34. | :13:37. | |
who have made sacrifices, people on low pay, people who have seen their | :13:38. | :13:46. | |
savings are eroded. The Tories have now hijacked another Lib Dem | :13:47. | :13:49. | |
policy, another big hike in the minimum wage. You spoke about the | :13:50. | :13:53. | |
need to make sure that people on low pay benefit from the recovery, a big | :13:54. | :13:59. | |
hike in the minimum wage. Did the Chancellor consulting on this? We | :14:00. | :14:02. | |
have been talking about it for some time. Vince Cable asked the low pay | :14:03. | :14:10. | |
commission for advice on this. Why did Vince Cable not make this | :14:11. | :14:12. | |
announcement, why was it the Chancellor? Let me say a few other | :14:13. | :14:18. | |
things about this. If we are going to secure the recovery, this year we | :14:19. | :14:22. | |
have to make sure that businesses start investing. We have got to get | :14:23. | :14:27. | |
Roddick typically rising. An increase in the minimum wage is | :14:28. | :14:31. | |
something that needs to follow that. We will not do it unless the low pay | :14:32. | :14:35. | |
commission adviser as it is important for the economy at this | :14:36. | :14:40. | |
stage. Did you know the Chancellor was coming out with that statement? | :14:41. | :14:44. | |
I did not know he was going to say something on that particular day. We | :14:45. | :14:50. | |
have worked together on it in the tragedy to see what the economic | :14:51. | :14:55. | |
impact would be, and to emphasise that it is the commission, which has | :14:56. | :14:58. | |
credibility with business, trade unions and government. It must not | :14:59. | :15:06. | |
be a politically motivated increase. So you did not know, and Vince | :15:07. | :15:10. | |
Cable, and it is properly a matter for him as the Business Secretary, | :15:11. | :15:19. | |
he did not make the announcement? I don't think that's right. I don t | :15:20. | :15:23. | |
clear every word I say with him I don't expect him to do the same to | :15:24. | :15:29. | |
me. The Lib Dems have told us before it was the Treasury that was | :15:30. | :15:38. | |
blocking this from happening. We were going to ask the low pay | :15:39. | :15:42. | |
commission to advise us on bringing the minimum wage back up. During the | :15:43. | :15:49. | |
financial crisis, wages have been lower-than-expected but it's also | :15:50. | :15:55. | |
right, we shouldn't act in a hasty way, we should listen to what the | :15:56. | :16:01. | |
commission has to say, and if they don't recommend an increase we have | :16:02. | :16:05. | |
to make sure economic conditions are there to get it right. Not only are | :16:06. | :16:13. | |
the Tories getting credit for that, our Scottish voters group showed | :16:14. | :16:15. | |
that people have still not forgiven you for ratting on tuition fees and | :16:16. | :16:20. | |
that was a broken promise that didn't even apply to the people in | :16:21. | :16:26. | |
Scotland, where there are no tuition fees! Nick Clegg has been very clear | :16:27. | :16:30. | |
about the issues that that brought up. If you look at our manifesto, | :16:31. | :16:39. | |
the University of London said we delivered about 70% of our policies | :16:40. | :16:44. | |
in the manifesto. They haven't forgiven you for the big one. The | :16:45. | :16:51. | |
big promise we made was to cut income tax the millions of people. | :16:52. | :17:00. | |
That is a policy which is putting money back into the pockets of | :17:01. | :17:05. | |
working people. It is only possible because we are delivering our | :17:06. | :17:09. | |
economic plan in government with the Conservatives. Now we have to make | :17:10. | :17:15. | |
sure, through tax cuts, through looking at issues like the minimum | :17:16. | :17:20. | |
wage and other groups who have made sacrifices, make sure that benefit | :17:21. | :17:26. | |
is shared. I am not going to agree to anything which undermines the | :17:27. | :17:30. | |
confidence of businesses to invest in this country over the next 1 | :17:31. | :17:35. | |
months. Speaking of Scotland, the Lib Dems, why do they now look | :17:36. | :17:42. | |
largely irrelevant in the battle for the union? Not one of our focus | :17:43. | :17:48. | |
group even knew who your Scottish leader is. I don't accept that. I | :17:49. | :17:53. | |
have spent a lot of time with Alistair Carmichael and others, we | :17:54. | :18:03. | |
are all making the case every day. If Scotland votes to be independent, | :18:04. | :18:08. | |
it will be in a much worse financial position within the European Union. | :18:09. | :18:14. | |
Scotland will be contributing to the rebate for the UK, rather than | :18:15. | :18:20. | |
benefiting from it. It has been a disaster for your Scottish based to | :18:21. | :18:23. | |
have joined a coalition with the Tories. It may have been the right | :18:24. | :18:28. | |
thing to do, you say it is in the national interest, but Scottish Lib | :18:29. | :18:32. | |
Dems did not expect to be in a coalition with the Tories. By the | :18:33. | :18:38. | |
way I think it is also in the national interests and the interests | :18:39. | :18:43. | |
of the people for Scotland, cutting the income tax of Scottish people, | :18:44. | :18:49. | |
stabilising the economy. We are now seeing good growth. But you are in | :18:50. | :18:55. | |
meltdown. I don't accept that. We will see what happens in the 20 5 | :18:56. | :19:03. | |
election. I think we have a record to be proud of, we have played a | :19:04. | :19:07. | |
very important role in clearing up the mess Labour made in the | :19:08. | :19:11. | |
economy, of making sure the Coalition government tackles the | :19:12. | :19:14. | |
problems in this country, but does so in a fair way. I think the | :19:15. | :19:21. | |
biggest risks to the economic recovery over the next few years is | :19:22. | :19:25. | |
either a majority Labour government or a majority Conservative | :19:26. | :19:30. | |
government. Labour you cannot trust with the finances, the Tories want | :19:31. | :19:34. | |
us to play chicken with the European Union which would truly be a | :19:35. | :19:38. | |
disaster to investment in this country. You announced this week | :19:39. | :19:43. | |
that if Scotland votes to leave the UK, it would be the British Treasury | :19:44. | :19:48. | |
that would guarantee all British government debt. There wouldn't be a | :19:49. | :19:53. | |
negotiation, but the backstop would be that even if they didn't take | :19:54. | :19:57. | |
anything, we would still guarantee the debt. What was happening in the | :19:58. | :20:02. | |
markets that you needed to calm them down? We were getting quite a few | :20:03. | :20:06. | |
questions from the people we rely on to lend us money. We are still | :20:07. | :20:13. | |
borrowing billions of pounds every month as a country. Those people | :20:14. | :20:17. | |
were asking us to clarify this point. It was becoming a serious | :20:18. | :20:30. | |
concern? It wasn't reflected in the guilty yields. I follow the bond | :20:31. | :20:34. | |
market quite carefully and there was no sign this was having an impact. | :20:35. | :20:41. | |
That's why the right thing to do was to clarify this point now, rather | :20:42. | :20:45. | |
than the concerns being reflected in what you imply, and I think it is a | :20:46. | :20:51. | |
bad idea for Scotland to vote for separation but it would be wrong to | :20:52. | :20:55. | |
allow for the fact that question is on the table to cost taxpayers in | :20:56. | :20:59. | |
the UK more money and higher interest payments simply because | :21:00. | :21:02. | |
Alex Salmond has put that question on the table. That's why I think it | :21:03. | :21:08. | |
was the right thing to do. There were a lot of calls from the focus | :21:09. | :21:11. | |
group that you need to be different. Nick Clegg has embarked on this | :21:12. | :21:17. | |
aggressive differentiation. Where you can be different is the | :21:18. | :21:22. | |
bankers' bonuses. What conceivable reason could there be for anybody at | :21:23. | :21:28. | |
RBS getting a bonus twice in their salary? We have not been approached | :21:29. | :21:35. | |
by RBS in terms of those votes. I would be sceptical about an approach | :21:36. | :21:43. | |
from RBS if it can. It shows what we have presided over as a party in | :21:44. | :21:51. | |
government, massive reductions. . I'm not asking you about that, I'm | :21:52. | :21:55. | |
asking what conceivable case there can be for a bank that has failed to | :21:56. | :22:04. | |
sell its branches even though ordered by the Government, still has | :22:05. | :22:08. | |
38 billion of toxic debt on its balance sheet, I ask again what | :22:09. | :22:14. | |
possible reason should they get twice salary as a bonus? Your right | :22:15. | :22:20. | |
to say RBS is in a very different position to other banks, it is | :22:21. | :22:29. | |
mostly owned by the state. RBS hasn't put a case to us but they | :22:30. | :22:33. | |
might do so I would like to look at what they would say, but I would be | :22:34. | :22:37. | |
sceptical as to whether a case could be made given some of the things you | :22:38. | :22:42. | |
said, but also the fact that it is a bank that has benefited from the | :22:43. | :22:48. | |
taxpayer standing behind it. Now RBS has to focus more on domestic | :22:49. | :22:54. | |
retail. Let me turn to Chris Rennard, ten women have accused him | :22:55. | :22:59. | |
of sexual harassment. He denies every case. Who do you believe? We | :23:00. | :23:05. | |
have been through a process on this as a party. A report has been issued | :23:06. | :23:15. | |
on this. I agree with Alistair Webster on this, he has made clear | :23:16. | :23:19. | |
that while he cannot prove what happened to a criminal standard | :23:20. | :23:23. | |
that there is clear there has been considerable distress and harm | :23:24. | :23:28. | |
caused. I agree with him about that and that's why it is necessary for | :23:29. | :23:34. | |
Chris Rennard to apologise as he has been asked to do. If he refuses to | :23:35. | :23:42. | |
apologise, should he be denied the Lib Dem whip in the Lords? I don't | :23:43. | :23:48. | |
think he should be readmitted to the Liberal Democrat group in the House | :23:49. | :23:51. | |
of Lords until such time as the disciplinary process, including the | :23:52. | :23:58. | |
apology, has been done properly We are very democratic party, it is a | :23:59. | :24:01. | |
matter for our group in the House of Lords in due course to make that | :24:02. | :24:07. | |
judgement. Party HQ has had a lot of complaints from party members about | :24:08. | :24:12. | |
the fact no apology has been made. The appropriate committee would need | :24:13. | :24:15. | |
to look at that and decide what action needs to be taken because | :24:16. | :24:21. | |
these are very serious matters. We as a party have learned a lot, taken | :24:22. | :24:28. | |
a long, hard look at ourselves, to change the way we work. The apology | :24:29. | :24:34. | |
does need to be made. We are told that Lord Newby, the Chief Whip of | :24:35. | :24:38. | |
the Liberal Democrats in the House of Lords, we are told he has shaken | :24:39. | :24:42. | |
hands with Chris Rennard and welcomed him back. That decision has | :24:43. | :24:50. | |
not been taken yet. I think Lord Newby would share my view on this. | :24:51. | :24:56. | |
Have you shaken his hand and welcomed him back? No, I haven't. | :24:57. | :25:03. | |
Does Nick Clegg have the power to deny Chris Rennard as the whip? I am | :25:04. | :25:10. | |
making it clear that a lack of apology is totally unacceptable and | :25:11. | :25:14. | |
therefore we have to take steps if that is not forthcoming. His view | :25:15. | :25:21. | |
and my view is that Lord Rennard should not be readmitted to the | :25:22. | :25:28. | |
House of Lords if that is not forthcoming. In our party, our group | :25:29. | :25:33. | |
in the House of Lords has two in the end take a view for itself. And they | :25:34. | :25:40. | |
can override Nick Clegg's view? I hope that when they look at this... | :25:41. | :25:47. | |
Do they have the power to override Nick Clegg? They have the power to | :25:48. | :25:59. | |
decide who should be the whip. The failure to follow up the simple | :26:00. | :26:03. | |
human demand for an apology for the stress that has been caused is | :26:04. | :26:09. | |
totally unacceptable. Your party is totally down lighted on this -- | :26:10. | :26:26. | |
divided on this. Here is what Lord Carlile had to say. A total | :26:27. | :26:32. | |
nonsense, hyperbole. It is a ridiculous statement to make and we | :26:33. | :26:37. | |
have seen Alistair Webster, the QC who did this investigation, comment | :26:38. | :26:42. | |
on that himself this morning. He has followed the process the party laid | :26:43. | :26:47. | |
down in its rules, which sets the standard for the investigation which | :26:48. | :26:50. | |
asked him to report on the evidence he has found, but he also has a duty | :26:51. | :26:54. | |
of confidentiality and responsibility under the data | :26:55. | :27:02. | |
protection legislation as well. Here is what your activists have said in | :27:03. | :27:15. | |
a letter to the Guardian. This shows there are strong opinions, but why | :27:16. | :27:19. | |
should Chris Rennard apologise for something he denies, unproven | :27:20. | :27:25. | |
allegations, on an unpublished report that Chris Rennard has not | :27:26. | :27:30. | |
been allowed to read? He should apologise because he wants to | :27:31. | :27:33. | |
continue to be a member of the Liberal Democrats and this is the | :27:34. | :27:38. | |
recommendation that has been made by the internal disciplinary process. | :27:39. | :27:44. | |
Webster himself said this was not an inquiry, it is an opinion. If Chris | :27:45. | :27:50. | |
Rennard apologises on this basis, he opens himself to civil lawsuits He | :27:51. | :27:57. | |
says he is not going to do it. As a Liberal Democrat you join the party | :27:58. | :28:01. | |
because you believe in its values, you abide by its rules. One of those | :28:02. | :28:07. | |
rules is that we have a process if there are disciplinary allegations. | :28:08. | :28:15. | |
The committee of the party supported Webster's recommendations, one of | :28:16. | :28:18. | |
which was that an apology should be made because he clearly found | :28:19. | :28:24. | |
distress had been caused. Will there now be a proper inquiry? I don't | :28:25. | :28:28. | |
think any of these legalistic things, I don't think he can have it | :28:29. | :28:41. | |
both ways. Will there be a proper inquiry? Alistair Webster did do a | :28:42. | :28:47. | |
proper inquiry. There was a proper report into what happened at the | :28:48. | :28:51. | |
time and we have learned a lot from this is a party, and the most | :28:52. | :28:56. | |
important thing now is that Chris Rennard apologises. You have made | :28:57. | :29:01. | |
that clear. What kind of biscuits are you? Are you a Tunnocks? Soft on | :29:02. | :29:12. | |
the inside? It is good of you to be advertising a Scottish product. We | :29:13. | :29:19. | |
just wondered if you weren't tough enough to take on Ed Balls. Thank | :29:20. | :29:24. | |
you. More than tough enough is the answer to that. | :29:25. | :29:41. | |
Generally governments are a bit rubbish at IT projects. They tend to | :29:42. | :29:45. | |
run way over budget and never quite achieve what they promised. So the | :29:46. | :29:48. | |
revelations of a former spy that the US and British security agencies | :29:49. | :29:51. | |
were in fact astonishingly efficient at eavesdropping on the digital | :29:52. | :29:53. | |
communications of their citizens came as a bit shock. But just how | :29:54. | :29:56. | |
worried should we be about their clandestine activity? | :29:57. | :29:58. | |
In his latest revelation, former US by Edward Snowden has claimed that | :29:59. | :30:00. | |
America's National Security Agency operates a secret database called | :30:01. | :30:06. | |
Dishfire. It collect 200 million mobile phone messages every day from | :30:07. | :30:10. | |
around the world, accessed, he says, why British and American spies. This | :30:11. | :30:16. | |
week, the president has outlined a series of surveillance reforms, | :30:17. | :30:20. | |
including Ning to the storage of the phone call information of millions | :30:21. | :30:27. | |
of Americans, and no Morse -- and no more spying on allies like Angela | :30:28. | :30:37. | |
Merkel. Critics say that the British intelligence agencies have refused | :30:38. | :30:39. | |
to acknowledge even the need for a debate on the issue. The Foreign | :30:40. | :30:44. | |
Secretary William six says that we have a very strong system of checks | :30:45. | :30:52. | |
and balances. -- William Hague. ?? new line Nick Pickles is director of | :30:53. | :30:55. | |
the pressure group Big Brother Watch. The Labour MP Hazel Blears in | :30:56. | :30:58. | |
on Parliament's Intelligence And Security Committee. They're here to | :30:59. | :31:08. | |
go head to head. Welcome to both of you. Hazel | :31:09. | :31:13. | |
Blears, let me come to you first. President Obama has made some major | :31:14. | :31:17. | |
changes as a result of what we have learned that the NSA in America was | :31:18. | :31:22. | |
up to. But British politicians seem to, they are not up for this kind of | :31:23. | :31:26. | |
thing, they are hoping it will go away? It is not going away and that | :31:27. | :31:31. | |
is why my committee, the Intelligence And Security Committee, | :31:32. | :31:36. | |
has decided to launch an enquiry into whether the legal framework is | :31:37. | :31:40. | |
up-to-date. We have had massive technological change. We have had a | :31:41. | :31:48. | |
call for evidence. Some of the sessions will be open so that people | :31:49. | :31:54. | |
can see what the evidence is. Obviously some of the information | :31:55. | :31:57. | |
will have to be classified, but on the committee, there is a real | :31:58. | :32:01. | |
commitment to say, there is a big debate going on, let's see if the | :32:02. | :32:05. | |
system is as Rob asked as we can make it. The big question is | :32:06. | :32:09. | |
oversight and the call for evidence that the committee has issued is not | :32:10. | :32:14. | |
mention oversight. It is ten years since the Foreign Affairs Committee | :32:15. | :32:18. | |
said that the committee should be a fully elected committee chosen by | :32:19. | :32:24. | |
Parliament and not the Prime Minister. It has changed, actually. | :32:25. | :32:31. | |
The Prime Minister nominates people and the house gets to him -- gets to | :32:32. | :32:41. | |
approve. In America, they have a separation of power, the president | :32:42. | :32:47. | |
does not nominate Kennedy. Basically, Hazel Blears, you're an | :32:48. | :32:52. | |
establishment lackey? I do not think so. Most of the people on the | :32:53. | :32:56. | |
committee have some experience of intelligence and these issues. In | :32:57. | :33:02. | |
this country, we have robust scrutiny, compared to some of her | :33:03. | :33:06. | |
European neighbours. We have Parliamentary scrutiny, the | :33:07. | :33:11. | |
interception commissioners, and ministers have to sign the warrants. | :33:12. | :33:15. | |
But there may be room for improvement, which is why we are | :33:16. | :33:20. | |
having the enquiry. Do not forget, President Obama said that the agency | :33:21. | :33:25. | |
should not have the ability to collect data, he wanted to put more | :33:26. | :33:29. | |
safeguards in. That is essential for the work of the agencies. If you | :33:30. | :33:34. | |
cannot see the data, you cannot take the connections and see the | :33:35. | :33:39. | |
patterns. Some people never talk about the threat from terrorism, it | :33:40. | :33:44. | |
is all about travesty. There are several thousand people in this | :33:45. | :33:49. | |
country, as we are talking, who are actively planning to do a country | :33:50. | :33:52. | |
harm. When this debate started in the US, the NSA head stood up and | :33:53. | :33:58. | |
said there are 54 plots that have been detected by this capability | :33:59. | :34:05. | |
that has detected and that in bulk. Now the head of the NSA has admitted | :34:06. | :34:11. | |
that the number is actually zero. It is not the intelligence committee in | :34:12. | :34:17. | |
the US that did the work to reduce that number, it was a Judiciary | :34:18. | :34:21. | |
Committee. The fact that we have two different bodies doing this in this | :34:22. | :34:24. | |
country, it means that you do not get the correct view. How can people | :34:25. | :34:31. | |
have confidence in a body when if you go around Europe, for example, | :34:32. | :34:37. | |
or the world, we are not at the end not requiring judges to not sign | :34:38. | :34:42. | |
warrants? I do not accept that the committee failed on that range of | :34:43. | :34:46. | |
issues. You look at the reports on 7/7. Two reports by the committee | :34:47. | :34:52. | |
get to the heart of it. If you look at that terrorist attack on our | :34:53. | :34:56. | |
country, people will say, why did you not have them on the radar? The | :34:57. | :35:01. | |
agencies are between a rock and a hard race. They have got to be | :35:02. | :35:07. | |
subject to oversight, but beanie capability. Did you know about | :35:08. | :35:16. | |
Dishfire? We go to GCHQ on a regular basis and I know about the | :35:17. | :35:20. | |
capabilities that we have got. Some of the names of these programmes, we | :35:21. | :35:27. | |
would not necessarily know. But did you know that GCHQ had the | :35:28. | :35:32. | |
capability to use Dishfire, or to get Dishfire material from the NSA? | :35:33. | :35:37. | |
I knew and my committee knew that we had the capability to collect data, | :35:38. | :35:42. | |
and these days, people do not write letters, they do not use landline | :35:43. | :35:46. | |
telephones, they use the Internet and text in, so it is important that | :35:47. | :35:51. | |
the agencies are able to keep up with that take the logical change. | :35:52. | :35:58. | |
What should happen? The proper legal framework should include, if a | :35:59. | :36:01. | |
company is cooperating, as Google and Facebook do, it should be | :36:02. | :36:06. | |
illegal for GCHQ to hack into them. In the US, Lundberg estimate that | :36:07. | :36:13. | |
this has driven a 35mm and hole in the US economy because people do not | :36:14. | :36:17. | |
trust but there are systems are secure. We need to know that GCHQ | :36:18. | :36:22. | |
are not trying to use a different door into the system, whether by | :36:23. | :36:26. | |
hacking or foreign intelligence. We need judicial oversight with judges | :36:27. | :36:33. | |
and not politicians signing off. The final 30 seconds to you. As a result | :36:34. | :36:38. | |
of the changes in the Justice and Security act, the committee is | :36:39. | :36:42. | |
accountable to Parliament and not the Prime Minister. Those changes | :36:43. | :36:46. | |
are taking place, and I am up for the debate if we need more change or | :36:47. | :36:52. | |
not. But I want British agencies to have more power to protect the | :36:53. | :36:56. | |
people in this country. Thank you to both of you. It's coming up to | :36:57. | :37:00. | |
11:40. You're watching the Sunday Politics. Coming up in just over 20 | :37:01. | :37:03. | |
minutes, we'll get the verdict of the Minister for Portsmouth on that | :37:04. | :37:05. | |
dive from the Portsmouth MP. Ouch! Welcome to Sunday Politics South, my | :37:06. | :37:31. | |
name is Peter Henley. On today's show: It worked after the | :37:32. | :37:34. | |
Second World War, could it work today? | :37:35. | :37:36. | |
Is the solution to the housing crisis not building 100 homes here | :37:37. | :37:40. | |
and there, but building whole new towns? | :37:41. | :37:43. | |
More on that shortly. First, let's meet the two politicians who will be | :37:44. | :37:47. | |
here for the next 20 minutes. Keith House, the Liberal Democrat leader | :37:48. | :37:49. | |
of Eastleigh Borough Council, and Royston Smith, former leader of | :37:50. | :37:52. | |
Southampton City Council and the Conservative candidate for | :37:53. | :37:55. | |
Southampton Itchen. This week, the Prime Minister, in | :37:56. | :37:58. | |
front of the Liaison Committee, was singing the benefits of shale gas | :37:59. | :38:03. | |
extraction, fracking. You tried to get it banned on council land. Why? | :38:04. | :38:09. | |
Yes, we did. We took the view that if we are really serious about | :38:10. | :38:12. | |
moving to a non`carbon economy and promoting renewables, we had to | :38:13. | :38:15. | |
forsake shale gas. That is not saying shale gas is any worse than | :38:16. | :38:19. | |
oil and gas drilled from under the sea. But it is about priorities, and | :38:20. | :38:23. | |
we want renewables to be given a much higher priority. What do you | :38:24. | :38:26. | |
think? Is the Prime Minister right on this? He says that opponents of | :38:27. | :38:29. | |
shale gas are irrational, religiously opposed to it. I guess | :38:30. | :38:33. | |
that includes you. Well, I don't know about whether people are | :38:34. | :38:35. | |
irrational or religiously opposed, but if we look back where we were | :38:36. | :38:39. | |
five years ago with renewables, and we look forward about where we might | :38:40. | :38:43. | |
like to be in five years' time, what we do know is we will not get rid of | :38:44. | :38:47. | |
dependence on fossilised fuels. So, fracking and shale gas, if it is | :38:48. | :38:51. | |
going to bring the cost of energy down and give local authorities | :38:52. | :38:54. | |
extra money, if it gives people the right through the planning process | :38:55. | :38:58. | |
to say they want it or they do not, I have no problem with it. It is a | :38:59. | :39:02. | |
choice we will all have to make. There is no evidence that it is | :39:03. | :39:06. | |
going to bring the cost of energy down. The reality is it is more | :39:07. | :39:10. | |
likely to be that it pushes back the time when we actually take | :39:11. | :39:13. | |
renewables seriously. Royston? It is going to create 74,000 jobs, and the | :39:14. | :39:17. | |
economy is crying out for more jobs, so I think, you know, from that | :39:18. | :39:21. | |
point of view alone, we need to be able to use everything at our | :39:22. | :39:24. | |
disposal, and shale gas is part of that. You could have those with | :39:25. | :39:28. | |
renewables, too. A discussion to be had, certainly. | :39:29. | :39:30. | |
The Government announced this week that Michael Fallon is to be the new | :39:31. | :39:33. | |
Minister for Portsmouth, the first time a city has had its own minister | :39:34. | :39:36. | |
since Michael Heseltine pronounced himself the Minister for Merseyside | :39:37. | :39:40. | |
back in the early '80s. Mr Fallon is also a minister shared between two | :39:41. | :39:43. | |
other departments. I spoke to him earlier and started by asking him | :39:44. | :39:47. | |
how long he expected to be in the job. | :39:48. | :39:49. | |
Well, I have been appointed to do it, there is no time limit. This is | :39:50. | :39:53. | |
not a temporary thing. There is a job of work to be done in ensuring | :39:54. | :39:56. | |
Portsmouth comes through the challenge of the shipyard closure | :39:57. | :40:00. | |
and that we are able to build and more broadly balance the civil | :40:01. | :40:03. | |
marine and maritime sector. That is not going to happen overnight, but | :40:04. | :40:07. | |
I'm determined to play my part to help. So, in terms of your success, | :40:08. | :40:10. | |
how should we judge what you do? What will be a good indication? | :40:11. | :40:14. | |
Well, I would hope the development of a more broadly based local | :40:15. | :40:17. | |
economy that builds on the strengths of maritime and marine and the | :40:18. | :40:20. | |
skills that are there in the shipyard but leads to more | :40:21. | :40:22. | |
private`sector job creation, particularly amongst small and | :40:23. | :40:33. | |
medium`sized enterprises. One of the groups bidding to get into the yard | :40:34. | :40:37. | |
says that they could build the new offshore patrol group vessel cheaper | :40:38. | :40:39. | |
in Portsmouth than Glasgow. Would that offer be considered? Well, | :40:40. | :40:43. | |
there have been a number of proposals put to my department over | :40:44. | :40:46. | |
the last few months which have come to us, and we have looked to see | :40:47. | :40:50. | |
whether they are commercially credible or not. We are very | :40:51. | :40:55. | |
restricted as a Government as to how we can assist shipbuilding. There | :40:56. | :41:01. | |
are very strict European Union rules about that. Obviously, we look at | :41:02. | :41:07. | |
every single one... This is an MOD decision. A new offshore patrol | :41:08. | :41:10. | |
vessel, the one that is currently up in Glasgow, if it could be built | :41:11. | :41:14. | |
cheaper by a company other than BAE in Portsmouth, that is fair | :41:15. | :41:17. | |
competition, isn't it? Well, it could well be. As I have said, we | :41:18. | :41:21. | |
have had a number of expressions of interest in reutilising the yard. Of | :41:22. | :41:25. | |
course, we will continue to look at that. We also... So it will be used | :41:26. | :41:28. | |
for Navy warship building, still? Well, you know, that does not look | :41:29. | :41:32. | |
at the moment likely because BAE have taken their decision. But as I | :41:33. | :41:37. | |
said, we will look at any of these particular expressions of interest, | :41:38. | :41:40. | |
but we also have to focus on the bigger picture of how we develop a | :41:41. | :41:44. | |
wider civil as well as naval maritime and marine sector that can | :41:45. | :41:47. | |
support lots of smaller and medium`sized businesses rather than | :41:48. | :41:54. | |
simply the yard itself. OK, so along with Vince Cable and Philip Hammond, | :41:55. | :41:58. | |
and the local MPs, you have been fully across the developments at | :41:59. | :42:01. | |
Portsmouth. Why weren't you made the minister back in October? Well, we | :42:02. | :42:05. | |
have been tracking the situation with BAE in Portsmouth for many | :42:06. | :42:09. | |
months now. My officials and other ministers, including Vince Cable, | :42:10. | :42:12. | |
have been very much aware of the situation in Portsmouth. We have | :42:13. | :42:17. | |
visited, I was there last year... So why didn't you take up the job back | :42:18. | :42:21. | |
in October rather than waiting until now? Well, I was only offered the | :42:22. | :42:25. | |
job on Thursday night, so it is a matter for the Prime Minister to | :42:26. | :42:28. | |
decide how these things are done. But let's be clear... So is this an | :42:29. | :42:33. | |
admission of failure, that the two MPs haven't been doing enough up | :42:34. | :42:37. | |
until now? No, certainly not. It is an awareness that now is the time, | :42:38. | :42:41. | |
given the city deal has been signed, given a series of Government funding | :42:42. | :42:44. | |
streams have been made available to Portsmouth, not least through the | :42:45. | :42:47. | |
Regional Growth Fund that I have been involved in, now is the time as | :42:48. | :42:51. | |
the closure approaches for us to seize the challenge and make sure | :42:52. | :42:54. | |
this is properly coordinated, that Portsmouth has a champion across | :42:55. | :42:56. | |
Whitehall and the other Government departments, and that everybody | :42:57. | :42:59. | |
works together to make sure we make the most of this opportunity after | :43:00. | :43:03. | |
what has been quite a difficult time. OK, we wish you luck. Minister | :43:04. | :43:14. | |
for Portsmouth, will there be ministers for other places or is | :43:15. | :43:18. | |
this a one`off, do you think? I think there is a unique challenge | :43:19. | :43:22. | |
here for Portsmouth. It has a long, proud history. Great strengths and | :43:23. | :43:25. | |
great skills. We need to go through that know and through the other side | :43:26. | :43:29. | |
and make sure we have a more broadly based local economy. I do not think | :43:30. | :43:32. | |
that necessarily means you'll have a minister for every other city. This | :43:33. | :43:35. | |
is a recognition that Portsmouth faces a unique challenge and there | :43:36. | :43:39. | |
is a job to be done to coordinate everybody's efforts to make sure we | :43:40. | :43:42. | |
come through it. OK, Michael Fallon, thank you very much. Thank you. | :43:43. | :43:50. | |
We could have a minister for Eastleigh, I suppose. The Minister | :43:51. | :43:56. | |
for Southampton. To use Vince Cable phrase, could this suck the life out | :43:57. | :44:02. | |
of the area? No, he gave a good explanation of the circumstances in | :44:03. | :44:05. | |
Portsmouth. It is good Vince Cable has freed up a minister to give | :44:06. | :44:09. | |
extra help to a city with specific issues. Vince Cable is behind this. | :44:10. | :44:15. | |
He said, I am in the Minister for Portsmouth, we do not need specific | :44:16. | :44:20. | |
ministers is commission might `` ministers! Now, there is specific | :44:21. | :44:29. | |
issues here, and if that means extra people can tackle this, that is good | :44:30. | :44:37. | |
for Portsmouth as a whole. This is an admission that this is not just a | :44:38. | :44:41. | |
commercial issue. But this is the Government closely involved with | :44:42. | :44:44. | |
commissioning of warships and they have responsibility in it. Well, I | :44:45. | :44:51. | |
think so. Obviously so. This is not a political decision about what has | :44:52. | :44:55. | |
happened shipbuilding in Portsmouth. That is a commercial decision taken | :44:56. | :44:58. | |
commercially as you would expect. To take extra resources politically | :44:59. | :45:03. | |
into an area will be have had this issue with shipbuilding and to make | :45:04. | :45:06. | |
sure we do something quickly to bring it back and protect jobs in | :45:07. | :45:09. | |
Portsmouth, that is not a bad thing. That is a positive thing. Is there a | :45:10. | :45:15. | |
chance here that it might work out very well and it will be seen that | :45:16. | :45:18. | |
the Minister for Portsmouth has brought all this about? He has been | :45:19. | :45:21. | |
given the opposite of a poisoned chalice, whatever that is. This | :45:22. | :45:25. | |
Government stands for localism. We do more things from the top ten, | :45:26. | :45:30. | |
that is a good thing and very much welcome. I had UKIP saying this is a | :45:31. | :45:35. | |
political scam, spin, covering it all up. It is almost a no`win | :45:36. | :45:42. | |
situation. If the governments did not do anything, everyone would be | :45:43. | :45:46. | |
banging the drum saying whether as a Government when mini demos? Now they | :45:47. | :45:51. | |
have put in a minister to oversee this and we should see it as a | :45:52. | :45:53. | |
positive. It's that time of year again when | :45:54. | :45:57. | |
councils are setting their budgets. Oxfordshire County Council says it | :45:58. | :46:00. | |
has to save ?93 million over the next four years and last year held a | :46:01. | :46:04. | |
series of public consultations to hear where people thought those | :46:05. | :46:06. | |
savings should and shouldn't be made. So what has been the end | :46:07. | :46:13. | |
result? Our Oxfordshire political reporter Helen Catt has been finding | :46:14. | :46:19. | |
out. An estimated 800,000 trees grow | :46:20. | :46:22. | |
along the public highways here in Oxfordshire. The County Council is | :46:23. | :46:27. | |
responsible for many of them and has to keep them safe but not | :46:28. | :46:30. | |
necessarily looking pretty. That is an expense it thinks it could easily | :46:31. | :46:36. | |
print. One of the proposals is not cutting back the vegetation so much. | :46:37. | :46:41. | |
We have to make sure we have the safety displays and signs clearly | :46:42. | :46:44. | |
visible, but do we need to cut the grass is often? It might mean it is | :46:45. | :46:49. | |
a bit untidy, but if we then say we can carry on doing other services, I | :46:50. | :46:52. | |
think people will understand. You might think some of the things the | :46:53. | :46:58. | |
council does not have to do unsurprising. It is not have to | :46:59. | :47:01. | |
provide street lighting. It has to give us a way of cycling day`to`day | :47:02. | :47:05. | |
rubbish, but not any litter through DIY. For other services, like | :47:06. | :47:11. | |
libraries, it has to provide a service, but what level of service | :47:12. | :47:18. | |
that is is up to the council. But around ?2.5 million is set to be cut | :47:19. | :47:21. | |
from non`statutory services a bit closer to home, like welfare | :47:22. | :47:25. | |
advice, homeless hostels and subsidies for Meals on Wheels. When | :47:26. | :47:31. | |
it comes to Meals on Wheels, are they are the different ways now? | :47:32. | :47:34. | |
When we provided the services earlier, there was not home | :47:35. | :47:38. | |
delivery. Can home deliveries be better utilised to provide services? | :47:39. | :47:41. | |
It is not a question of simply saying we are stopping this and will | :47:42. | :47:45. | |
not do it, we will be working with people to actually see if we can | :47:46. | :47:48. | |
provide services in a different way and at a better cost value. In | :47:49. | :47:54. | |
October, an idea to close 37 children's centres to save ?5 | :47:55. | :47:58. | |
million was leaked, causing uproar. It is not made it into budget plans. | :47:59. | :48:04. | |
One of the big issues that came out early on when the budget was | :48:05. | :48:07. | |
formalised was about children's centres. A lot of work around that | :48:08. | :48:12. | |
showed that actually, we do not need to provide it as a statutory | :48:13. | :48:15. | |
service. We looked at it and investigated and we see we have to | :48:16. | :48:20. | |
make challenging savings, about ?3 million overall, but we are still | :48:21. | :48:24. | |
providing services above what we need to provide. When the proposals | :48:25. | :48:28. | |
were announced, you sort of undertook to save that no | :48:29. | :48:34. | |
children's centres would close. Is that a principle you're going to | :48:35. | :48:37. | |
base this review on? I knew going into it thinking, we will not shut a | :48:38. | :48:43. | |
single children's centre? I was very clear in saying that it did not | :48:44. | :48:46. | |
envisage any children's centres closing. When you work through the | :48:47. | :48:50. | |
review, we will have to see what comes out at the end. I do not | :48:51. | :48:55. | |
envisage any closures, but we have to understand all, see where we can | :48:56. | :48:58. | |
save money and provide good services for residents. Subsidised transport | :48:59. | :49:04. | |
is being reviewed to save another ?3 million and grants to village halls | :49:05. | :49:08. | |
and two arts centres are being stopped. But will it be enough to | :49:09. | :49:12. | |
cope with pressures from bad weather, elderly people and ever | :49:13. | :49:17. | |
decreasing money to Government? How can you be sure you will not balance | :49:18. | :49:20. | |
the budget this year and come June, you're going to get another | :49:21. | :49:25. | |
bombshell? We give you the budget every year and have to work within | :49:26. | :49:29. | |
the parameters that come forward. For instance, George Osborne has | :49:30. | :49:34. | |
just announced it will be an additional ?25 billion of savings in | :49:35. | :49:38. | |
the next Parliament. That will impact on local Government. We have | :49:39. | :49:43. | |
to work smarter and leaner. Whatever is thrown at us, we have got to rise | :49:44. | :49:47. | |
to the challenge. There might very well be another statement in June. | :49:48. | :49:50. | |
If there is, it will be disappointing but we will have to | :49:51. | :49:53. | |
work to those figures. There are concerns amongst some that if those | :49:54. | :49:58. | |
figures keep going down, councils might start struggle to deliver even | :49:59. | :50:04. | |
the statutory duties. At those public meetings in | :50:05. | :50:06. | |
Oxfordshire, a lot of people said, let's increase council tax by more | :50:07. | :50:11. | |
than the limit. Let's put it up by 4%, 10%, let's keep up services. Why | :50:12. | :50:19. | |
not fight to keep the services? Groups of people who feel | :50:20. | :50:21. | |
disproportionately affected will see that. I understand that. Councils, | :50:22. | :50:27. | |
all they need to do, if they want to protect services by putting council | :50:28. | :50:29. | |
to some and not look for savings and efficiencies, is to propose a higher | :50:30. | :50:34. | |
council tax and put it to the public. It is happening in Brighton. | :50:35. | :50:38. | |
Only one council the country is doing it. Precisely. We will see how | :50:39. | :50:44. | |
that works out. If they want to do that, they can. No`one has chosen to | :50:45. | :50:48. | |
do that yet apart from the Greens in Brighton. Surely that should be a | :50:49. | :50:57. | |
push back against this cut. 43% cut. Local Government has had higher | :50:58. | :51:00. | |
levels of cuts and other parts of the public sector, mainly to protect | :51:01. | :51:02. | |
health and education, which have been seen as national priorities. | :51:03. | :51:08. | |
The answer is not referendums on higher council tags, the answer is | :51:09. | :51:10. | |
for local Government always look for more deficiencies, new ways of doing | :51:11. | :51:15. | |
things. In Eastleigh, this year will be the 11th year of real cut in | :51:16. | :51:19. | |
counsel to. We have not cut services however. As long as I have known | :51:20. | :51:25. | |
you, you have been saying we are the most efficient, the best in the | :51:26. | :51:28. | |
area. How long can you carry on doing that? I would not put it like | :51:29. | :51:33. | |
that. We have managed to keep council tax down in real terms for | :51:34. | :51:37. | |
11 years. We will be doing that into the future and continue to find new | :51:38. | :51:42. | |
and different ways of doing things. Being more commercial, occupying | :51:43. | :51:47. | |
small offices, using volunteers for discretionary activities, and doing | :51:48. | :51:49. | |
what the public wants, not necessarily what statutory duty is. | :51:50. | :51:56. | |
That is summed up by the idea of the trees. You can have it safe under | :51:57. | :52:01. | |
the statute, but not pretty. I read except in a second`class service in | :52:02. | :52:03. | |
order to meet the things which have to be done? We should not need to | :52:04. | :52:09. | |
have a second`class service. We should be more innovative and share | :52:10. | :52:14. | |
more with other local authorities. Eastleigh and Southampton have been | :52:15. | :52:18. | |
doing that for some time. Southampton and feed doing that | :52:19. | :52:20. | |
legal services. There are ways of doing things more efficiently while | :52:21. | :52:25. | |
providing a service to the public. It is about the public. They are | :52:26. | :52:32. | |
employers. We will stand before them and ask them for our jobs again in | :52:33. | :52:38. | |
May. We need to protect them. Sharing services with other | :52:39. | :52:41. | |
authorities could mean and does mean and has meant in the past that | :52:42. | :52:44. | |
council tax levels have been kept warm. OK. `` kept lower. | :52:45. | :52:52. | |
According to the charity Shelter, we need to be building a quarter of a | :52:53. | :52:56. | |
million new homes every year for the foreseeable future. But where to put | :52:57. | :53:00. | |
them in a region where the existing infrastructure in our towns and | :53:01. | :53:02. | |
cities is already creaking? Maybe building a whole new town is the | :53:03. | :53:06. | |
answer. And as our Berkshire political reporter Patrick O'Hagan | :53:07. | :53:09. | |
reports, it's an answer we found a while back. | :53:10. | :53:15. | |
My, this is a grand way to start the day. New terms are not that new and | :53:16. | :53:19. | |
idea. They sprang up after the war and were sold by the Government as a | :53:20. | :53:23. | |
better way of life out in the countryside, away from all the crime | :53:24. | :53:26. | |
and overcrowding of big cities like London. There are now 22 of them | :53:27. | :53:32. | |
around the country, including places like Basingstoke and Bracknell. To | :53:33. | :53:36. | |
begin with, the Prime Minister sounded like he was all in favour of | :53:37. | :53:41. | |
building more. It seems to me that our post`war predecessors had the | :53:42. | :53:47. | |
right idea. Embodied in the visionary plan from Patrick | :53:48. | :53:52. | |
Abercrombie in 1944. His plan and append the Southeast economic | :53:53. | :53:54. | |
success by proposing well`planned and well located new terms which | :53:55. | :53:58. | |
would in time become new engines of economic growth. But his enthusiasm | :53:59. | :54:03. | |
seems to have waned over the last 18 months and now it is the Deputy | :54:04. | :54:08. | |
Prime Minister Nick Clegg who is suggesting new towns or garden | :54:09. | :54:10. | |
cities in Buckinghamshire or Oxfordshire. | :54:11. | :54:14. | |
Joining me now is Tony Virgo, who is a councillor on Bracknell Forest | :54:15. | :54:18. | |
Council. He things it is not a bad idea, the new town. Why? I do. I | :54:19. | :54:24. | |
have been on a planning committee for a long time and I think many | :54:25. | :54:30. | |
off. We need to increase it. I know from experience the pressure on some | :54:31. | :54:36. | |
communities on some of the extra development we have to put in. It is | :54:37. | :54:39. | |
enormous in terms of roads and infrastructure and skills. I think | :54:40. | :54:45. | |
as well as doing that and releasing that pressure, we could have a look | :54:46. | :54:49. | |
at two new settlements or maybe three small settlements. So in | :54:50. | :54:58. | |
Berkshire, whereabouts? I think we should be very open`minded about | :54:59. | :55:03. | |
this. The most important thing is infrastructure. We have to look at | :55:04. | :55:08. | |
transport and the next generation and will the jobs are. The ball | :55:09. | :55:13. | |
travel to the. That infrastructure is... Not too far away from the M4? | :55:14. | :55:22. | |
That is really busy and it will be full unless we build extra lanes. | :55:23. | :55:25. | |
There are other suggestions and drips. `` and drips. I have to look | :55:26. | :55:36. | |
for the field, like Worcestershire. We need a consensus to make this... | :55:37. | :55:45. | |
We must bring the Mac `` we must not look at this as a negativity. There | :55:46. | :55:50. | |
is a positive spin in some places in terms of design. But even some | :55:51. | :55:54. | |
locals are not happy and never have been. You will eat always get people | :55:55. | :55:58. | |
saying, why here? Someone has to be overruled. Of course. Someone has to | :55:59. | :56:05. | |
make a decision. We are a country that is fearful change something. | :56:06. | :56:11. | |
Sometimes we do that change, the accepted. That has to be done in a | :56:12. | :56:18. | |
managed way. It is important to state that if we did do new towns, | :56:19. | :56:23. | |
we are talking about sustainable drainage and energy, something we | :56:24. | :56:26. | |
should be proud of in this country and not having to join it with | :56:27. | :56:29. | |
existing stuff which basically needs renewing as well. Thanks joining us. | :56:30. | :56:34. | |
Now our regular round`up of the political week in the South in 60 | :56:35. | :56:36. | |
seconds. The traditional image of a military | :56:37. | :56:46. | |
wife puts off potential employers, according to a Wiltshire support | :56:47. | :56:48. | |
group who are highlighting the strengths of military partners. | :56:49. | :56:55. | |
Hospital A doctors, however, are in such demand that the wage bill | :56:56. | :56:59. | |
has leapt. Temporary extra staff in Portsmouth costing half a million | :57:00. | :57:02. | |
pounds, ten times that of previous years. | :57:03. | :57:07. | |
Floods and storms have brought big repair bills for county councils. In | :57:08. | :57:10. | |
Dorset, more than 1000 pothles have been reported since January the 1st. | :57:11. | :57:16. | |
Residents of this town in Sussex are worried they will be swamped with | :57:17. | :57:20. | |
new houses because they are one of the few places in the county that | :57:21. | :57:23. | |
has not flooded this year. A new housing project was the | :57:24. | :57:26. | |
destination for Local Government Secretary Eric Pickles in | :57:27. | :57:29. | |
Portsmouth. And he backed local MP Penny Mordaunt taking part in the TV | :57:30. | :57:34. | |
programme Splash! She is a woman of considerable talent and I don't know | :57:35. | :57:39. | |
about you... Besides, I would obviously make a very big splash | :57:40. | :57:43. | |
myself! I do not think I would have the courage to jump off one of those | :57:44. | :57:45. | |
boards. Good idea, but I here? I do not | :57:46. | :57:59. | |
know. I had to abseil down a building once, and Elisa kit all my | :58:00. | :58:03. | |
clothes on. That is as much as I would do. Did you get sponsored to | :58:04. | :58:11. | |
keep your clothes on? I do not think I have been sponsored to take my | :58:12. | :58:16. | |
clothes 40 Vermont. `` or keep my clothes on. She's giving a fee to | :58:17. | :58:24. | |
charity. It is in her spare time, as I understand, so good on her effort | :58:25. | :58:28. | |
is for charity. It would be interesting for Eric Pickles to do | :58:29. | :58:32. | |
the same thing. In her spare time, but you're the candidate next | :58:33. | :58:36. | |
summer. An MP is closely scrutinised. You cannot say you want | :58:37. | :58:38. | |
to do this in your spare time. It will will say you should do your | :58:39. | :58:43. | |
job. They will, but it is a good cause. Everyone knows we do have | :58:44. | :58:47. | |
spare time, however little that is. But if it is in her spare time, it | :58:48. | :58:51. | |
is a good cause, she's not doing any harm. Good luck to her. What is the | :58:52. | :58:56. | |
most ridiculous thing you might do in such a situation? You would not | :58:57. | :59:01. | |
get me in the jungle. Heating and set. Sorry, not up for that. People | :59:02. | :59:08. | |
pay for MPs to be at Westminster. You're expected to do your job and | :59:09. | :59:12. | |
for all the expenses and the rest of it. She must have put in time | :59:13. | :59:17. | |
training. MPs get a really hard time. For those of us are not MPs | :59:18. | :59:21. | |
and close to the system, across the political spectrum, they put in | :59:22. | :59:24. | |
ridiculous numbers of hours. Getting any spare time at all isn't | :59:25. | :59:28. | |
triumph. If Penny is doing this, I will not knock for that. She says it | :59:29. | :59:35. | |
is from our Navy training as well, and learning to dive would be | :59:36. | :59:43. | |
useful. What could you do , the abseil we have mentioned? Would you | :59:44. | :59:49. | |
be up for that? I have done sponsored walks and clients and | :59:50. | :59:52. | |
things for charities in the past, but that was when I was not as busy. | :59:53. | :59:56. | |
Climbing a mountain takes a week or so. You can do that as an MP. Both | :59:57. | :00:04. | |
of you, thank you very much. That's the Sunday Politics in the | :00:05. | :00:08. | |
South, thanks to my guests Keith House and Royston Smith. As we | :00:09. | :00:19. | |
said, the candidate for Southampton Itchen. You can keep up`to`date | :00:20. | :00:23. | |
houses being built by the mayor. Andrew, back to you. Welcome back. | :00:24. | :00:33. | |
Now she made quite a splash last night. I am talking, of course, of | :00:34. | :00:38. | |
the Portsmouth North MP, Penny Mordaunt. If you missed her first | :00:39. | :00:43. | |
appearance in ITV's celebrity diving competition show, here she is in | :00:44. | :00:44. | |
action. APPLAUSE | :00:45. | :01:15. | |
Here is a lady who is more used to campaigning for votes than diving | :01:16. | :01:19. | |
for them. She created far too much rotation. Hard work has gone into | :01:20. | :01:24. | |
the start of this dive to try and control it. That looked painful Now | :01:25. | :01:35. | |
the Portsmouth North MP got voted off the show last night but what | :01:36. | :01:38. | |
about the verdict that really matters? The newly appointed | :01:39. | :01:41. | |
Minister for Portsmouth, Michael Fallon, is here. Welcome to the | :01:42. | :01:47. | |
programme. I would give her ten out of ten for bravery. I was cheering | :01:48. | :01:52. | |
her on. She was doing this for a local charity, raising money for the | :01:53. | :01:56. | |
local swimming pool. She was a good sport. As Minister for Portsmouth, | :01:57. | :02:03. | |
can we expect to see you in your swimming trunks for the next | :02:04. | :02:06. | |
series? I do not think I have the spare time at the moment. But there | :02:07. | :02:12. | |
is a big challenge in Portsmouth. Penny Mordaunt and the other local | :02:13. | :02:16. | |
MPs there have been remorseless in asking ministers to help the city. | :02:17. | :02:22. | |
They are losing jobs. There is a goblin Trinity -- there is a big | :02:23. | :02:32. | |
opportunity to create jobs. Should she have been on a celebrity | :02:33. | :02:35. | |
television show of their role these problems in Portsmouth? This was in | :02:36. | :02:41. | |
her spare time and it is raising money for a good cause. I do not | :02:42. | :02:45. | |
think we should eat two sniffy about it. Did I not see you dressed up on | :02:46. | :02:51. | |
Thursday night, doing your programme? This is my job. This is | :02:52. | :02:58. | |
not her job. It was in her spare time, she was raising money for a | :02:59. | :03:09. | |
local charity. Your Minister for Portsmouth. Are we going to have a | :03:10. | :03:14. | |
minister for every town? Are we going to have a minister for | :03:15. | :03:17. | |
Chipping Sodbury? Chipping Sodbury does not have the issues that | :03:18. | :03:22. | |
Portsmouth have -- that Portsmouth has. There are jobs at risk in | :03:23. | :03:29. | |
shipbuilding. The government puts in a lot of money through the regional | :03:30. | :03:35. | |
growth fund, some ?20 million. There are range of government funding | :03:36. | :03:39. | |
streams going into Portsmouth. My job is to make sure that is properly | :03:40. | :03:45. | |
coordinated. I need to make sure that Portsmouth seizes this | :03:46. | :03:48. | |
opportunity to develop a more broadly -based marine and maritime | :03:49. | :03:52. | |
economy. To make sure a marginal seat stays Tory at the next | :03:53. | :03:57. | |
election? There are marginal seats everywhere. There is a Liberal | :03:58. | :04:08. | |
Democrat marginal the -- seat. Vince Cable and I have been working | :04:09. | :04:10. | |
together for the issues that Portsmouth is facing. We work on | :04:11. | :04:16. | |
these things together. But I have the very specific job of making sure | :04:17. | :04:20. | |
that the effort on the ground is coordinated. So Vince Cable is not | :04:21. | :04:26. | |
the Minister for Portsmouth? I have been there recently, so has Vince | :04:27. | :04:31. | |
Cable. So there are two ministers for Portsmouth? Just a minute. I am | :04:32. | :04:37. | |
making sure that the effort is properly coordinated on the ground. | :04:38. | :04:41. | |
I am determined to turn this challenging time into a proper | :04:42. | :04:45. | |
opportunity. Should we be to Paul faced about this? No, good honour. | :04:46. | :04:52. | |
How much money would be have to pay you to get into a swimming costume? | :04:53. | :04:56. | |
Bid is not enough money in the BBC covers. Good on her. It took seven | :04:57. | :05:03. | |
years to get a leg there's an MP. She should be a minister. It is a | :05:04. | :05:09. | |
pity she has the spare time to do this. She is very talented. It is | :05:10. | :05:14. | |
interesting about the Minister for Portsmouth, up in the north-east | :05:15. | :05:18. | |
they must be sad that they do not have any marginal seats. Nick Brown | :05:19. | :05:25. | |
as David Cameron last July, can we have a minister for the north-east, | :05:26. | :05:30. | |
and the Prime Minister is said no? Does this mean that Portsmouth is | :05:31. | :05:34. | |
more deprived economic late than the north-east? No, it means it is a | :05:35. | :05:40. | |
marginal seat. The Labour Leader Ed Miliband was on | :05:41. | :05:43. | |
the Andrew Marr programme this morning and he outlined plans under | :05:44. | :05:46. | |
a Labour government for an annual competition audit. Here is what he | :05:47. | :05:48. | |
had to say. The next Labour government will have an annual | :05:49. | :05:51. | |
competition at it, not just done by the regulatory body. Alongside them | :05:52. | :05:55. | |
will be the citizens advice bureau, setting the agenda for the future, | :05:56. | :06:00. | |
setting the agenda for how we can ensure that competition will benefit | :06:01. | :06:05. | |
consumers and businesses. I want to see Labour going into the next | :06:06. | :06:08. | |
election as the party of competition, the party of the | :06:09. | :06:13. | |
consumer, the party of hard-pressed working families who are struggling. | :06:14. | :06:17. | |
They need somebody to deal with those issues and that is what the | :06:18. | :06:21. | |
next Labour government will do. I thought you were meant to be the | :06:22. | :06:25. | |
party of competition? We are the party of competition. This is the | :06:26. | :06:31. | |
party that has given us some of these problems. We have an annual | :06:32. | :06:35. | |
competition review in the energy sector. We have already tackling | :06:36. | :06:41. | |
banking. What is interesting about his proposal is it is the smaller | :06:42. | :06:45. | |
ones who are less sure about this, the smaller banks who think that | :06:46. | :06:50. | |
this could inhibit the growth. It is the smaller energy companies who | :06:51. | :06:54. | |
think that through interfering with the market, through his price | :06:55. | :06:57. | |
freeze, that he will hinder competition. We spoke about this | :06:58. | :07:03. | |
before. It is a clever pitch that Ed Miliband is making. Under the guise | :07:04. | :07:09. | |
of token markets and claiming to be the party of competition, he is | :07:10. | :07:13. | |
creating the reason for state intervention? -- broken markets | :07:14. | :07:20. | |
Exactly, and it is state intervention that does not work | :07:21. | :07:26. | |
There is a proud tradition in government of smashing open cartels. | :07:27. | :07:31. | |
Teddy Roosevelt did it nearly a century ago. The problem is, in | :07:32. | :07:36. | |
those situations it was clear and obvious that the consumers were | :07:37. | :07:41. | |
suffering. I am not sure it is entirely obvious in this country. In | :07:42. | :07:46. | |
the banking sector we have free current accounts in the high street. | :07:47. | :07:49. | |
That is not true in all Western countries. In the energy sector our | :07:50. | :07:55. | |
bills are not outlandish they high. It is when we take taxes into | :07:56. | :08:00. | |
account the become unaffordable He has to make the case that consumers | :08:01. | :08:05. | |
are suffering as a result of these monopolies. Ed Miliband would say it | :08:06. | :08:10. | |
is not about state intervention but about making markets work. The piece | :08:11. | :08:16. | |
that was written by his intellectual Duryea about the significance and | :08:17. | :08:20. | |
the importance of Teddy Roosevelt. He was the Republican president in | :08:21. | :08:24. | |
the yearly -- in the early years of the last century. He wanted markets | :08:25. | :08:32. | |
to work. There is an interesting debate on Twitter this morning. Tim | :08:33. | :08:38. | |
Montgomerie is saying, why are we, the Conservative Party, not seen as | :08:39. | :08:45. | |
the party of Teddy Roosevelt? We are seen as the party of business. | :08:46. | :08:52. | |
There are smaller energy companies competing against the big six. In | :08:53. | :08:56. | |
banking, we have seen smaller companies coming. It was the Labour | :08:57. | :09:00. | |
government that created the big six energy companies. I think Teddy | :09:01. | :09:05. | |
Roosevelt also invaded Cuba and the Philippines. That could give us a | :09:06. | :09:11. | |
clue as to Ed Miliband's foreign policy. Nigel Farage has promised to | :09:12. | :09:17. | |
purge the party of its more extreme candidates ahead of the European | :09:18. | :09:22. | |
Council elections in May. But that may not be going so well. Listen to | :09:23. | :09:28. | |
this. The latest in this process is these homosexual laws. And Thomas I | :09:29. | :09:36. | |
shall manage. I believe that the Prime Minister, who was warned that | :09:37. | :09:41. | |
disasters would follow a three went in this direction, he has persisted, | :09:42. | :09:47. | |
and I believe that this is largely a repercussion from this godlessness | :09:48. | :09:55. | |
that he has persisted in. The instructions I have got from now on, | :09:56. | :09:59. | |
or is just not to answer in, and not to give interviews such as this one. | :10:00. | :10:04. | |
So you are ignoring them? I am not ignoring them. But you are talking | :10:05. | :10:10. | |
to me? You are the last one I shall be speaking to. I think it is too | :10:11. | :10:16. | |
late. Who would have thought it It is not global warming that is | :10:17. | :10:19. | |
causing the floods, it is gay marriage? That explains it. Last | :10:20. | :10:26. | |
year David Cameron offered a coded retraction of his statement that | :10:27. | :10:31. | |
UKIP is full of fruit cakes. I think he will be tempted to retract the | :10:32. | :10:37. | |
retraction. It is a warning to lots of Tories who think that their best | :10:38. | :10:39. | |
interests are served by flirting with lace -- with UKIP. Nigel Farage | :10:40. | :10:48. | |
is a very plausible guy, but several layers down, there are people who | :10:49. | :10:53. | |
are very different. Nigel Farage is saying that he's going to clear the | :10:54. | :10:56. | |
party out of what Mr Cameron called the fruitcakes. If he is true to his | :10:57. | :11:01. | |
word, Mr Sylvester's days in the party should they numbered. If Nigel | :11:02. | :11:08. | |
Farage falls under the bus, what is left of place -- what is left of | :11:09. | :11:20. | |
UKIP? People say that they like UKIP because unlike other politicians, | :11:21. | :11:23. | |
they speak their mind. But as it turns into more of a proper | :11:24. | :11:28. | |
organisation, people speaking their mind will be less acceptable. The | :11:29. | :11:33. | |
European elections are always a protest vote. People are not happy | :11:34. | :11:39. | |
with the elite. You will get people saying utterly ridiculous things | :11:40. | :11:43. | |
like that man in Henley-on-Thames. But this is a chance to vote against | :11:44. | :11:48. | |
the entire political establishment. I am not sure that comments like | :11:49. | :11:56. | |
that will make much of a difference. There are lots of arguments about | :11:57. | :12:00. | |
climate change. That was certainly a new one! They are the only big | :12:01. | :12:06. | |
protest party at the moment. Protest party is obviously hoovered up lots | :12:07. | :12:11. | |
of votes. We have got to be clear in European message that we are the | :12:12. | :12:15. | |
only party that can reform Europe and give people a proper choice the | :12:16. | :12:21. | |
first referendum in over 40 years. Mr Sylvester used to be a | :12:22. | :12:24. | |
conservative. You're probably glad to see the back of him? David | :12:25. | :12:30. | |
Cameron is right, there are probably a few fruitcakes around there. I | :12:31. | :12:34. | |
think that mainstream conservatives will understand that this is the | :12:35. | :12:41. | |
only party that can secure European reform and give people the choice | :12:42. | :12:45. | |
they have been arguing for. Whatever happens in the European elections, | :12:46. | :12:50. | |
it is a protest vote. We have almost run out of time. We will see this | :12:51. | :12:53. | |
week of Chris Rennard gets the party whip act. There is a battle brewing | :12:54. | :13:00. | |
between Danny Alexander and the common side of the Liberal Democrats | :13:01. | :13:04. | |
and the House of Lords. If he turns up on Monday and asks to be let in, | :13:05. | :13:09. | |
I they going to make a big scene at the gate of Parliament? And the | :13:10. | :13:19. | |
issue will stay in the papers? Yes, they are clearly nervous that Lord | :13:20. | :13:23. | |
Rennard might be tempted to mount a legal bid. That is all for today. | :13:24. | :13:30. | |
Thanks to all my guests. The Daily Politics is back on Monday at midday | :13:31. | :13:34. | |
on BBC Two. And I will be here again next week. Remember if it is Sunday, | :13:35. | :13:37. | |
it is the Sunday Politics. | :13:38. | :13:39. |