08/06/2014 Sunday Politics South

David Cameron slaps down two of his most senior Cabinet ministers

over their public row about Islamist extremism in schools.

And it?s HER special advisor that has to resign.

We'll talk to the Shadow Education Secretary live

Should this man become the next President of the EU Commission?

David Cameron has staked a lot on stopping Luxembourg Federalist

But could the arch europhile yet get the top job?

Here's to the quarter of a million votes.

And we'll find out why this political party is celebrating with

In the South: success may have cost UKIP two MEPs.

UKIP advancing everywhere, except in Oxfordshire.

Just why did that one countx resist the rise of the Kippdrs?

Has Boris Johnson deserted the suburbs and become a zone one man?

And with me our panel of top political journalists,

who are always squabbling among themselves, Nick Watt, Polly Toynbee

and Janan Ganesh, who will be tweeting throughout the programme

This morning's political news is dominated

by the very public fall-out of Home Secretary Theresa May and

The high viz blue on blue spat between two senior

Conservatives centred around the Government's approach to tackling

The row burst into the open ahead of the publication tomorrow of

investigations into the so-called Trojan Horse plot in Birmingham

where it is alleged several state schools have been covertly taken

Mr Gove told The Times last week he was concerned that the Home Office

was unwilling to tackle extremism at its roots.

He said a robust response was needed to drain the swamp.

In response, Mrs May's special advisor tweeted,

"why is the Department for Education wanting to blame other people

Lord knows what more they have overlooked on the subject of the

An angry David Cameron ordered a speedy inquiry.

Last night, Mr Gove apologised to the Prime Minister, while Ms May's

Speaking on the BBC earlier this morning

this is what Foreign Secretary, William Hague, had to say.

There's been a disciplinary matter within the Government,

which the Prime Minister has dealt with in a very firm, clear way.

There will be discipline in the Government.

The main thing is the issue itself - tackling extremism in schools.

The Government will be very clear, very robust about anything that s

put children at risk - risk to their safety or learning.

Let's look at the positive of this. Theresa May 's people of saying she

has come off worse in theirs. Yelena Kushi is no more guilty than Michael

Gove he was guilty of indiscretion. She is no more guilty. Even during

13 years of new Labour 's psychodrama, I cannot remember an

act of hostility quite as naked as direct as publishing on a website

and intergovernmental letter. It suggests quite a lot of

conservatives do not think they will win next time. Why would there be a

leadership spat going on like this unless they thought there was a

vacancy? Inside the Cabinet, Theresa May is getting quite a bashing. In

the Sunday Times, someone has reported she is the date from hell.

She sidles up to people and is nakedly ambitious. I think that is

interesting. On the whole, nobody will understand the finesse

differences of opinion. It is not serious, it is not serious, it is

tactical. It'll be puzzling for most people and will probably fizzle out.

Has the Prime Minister slapped it down or will it rumble on? On the

politics of it, it will not fizzle out. What you have is Theresa May is

deadly serious about replacing David Cameron, not dislodging him but

replacing him if there is a vacancy. Michael Gove is deadly serious in

ensuring George Osborne succeeds David Cameron. It will be that

ongoing political rivalry. What is really interesting about this is the

Prime Minister is absolutely fed up with both of them. He is fed up with

Michael Gove full-size gearing of message. He had the row with Nick

Clegg and he had a row with Theresa May. He named Charles Barr and

criticised him in a lunch with the times. White brother he is the

Security adviser at the Home Office. -- he is the security advisor. He is

fed up with Theresa May for mounting an unannounced leader bid. What

separates Theresa May from Michael Gove on dealing with extremism? The

view from Michael Gove is that it shows no interest in Islamic

extremism until it manifests in violent form. Theresa May is

criticised for rolling back the programme which the previous Labour

government introduced to do with the previous Labour government

introduced to do with the Home Office has been made by other people

and made when the Home Office was not run by Theresa May but previous

home secretaries, even dating back to the Conservative government in

the 1990s. It is about the laxity of the Government. Michael Gove has

used extraordinary inflammatory language talking about draining the

swamp. I think Theresa May 's view is you can very easily inflamed

those emotions and create many more extremists the process. Michael Gove

would say that his approach is entirely consistent with the speech

the Prime Minister made to the Munich Security conference in 2 11

when the Prime Minister talked about how extremists

warp the grape great religion of Islam. The Birmingham school system

is going to be one of the most reported systems in Europe.

Joining me now from Kent is Shadow Education Secretary Tristram Hunt.

Should parents of Birmingham children be worried that some of

their schools are in the grip of an Islamist takeover? I think parents

in Birmingham schools will be very disappointed by the political

infighting going on in the Government. The briefings, the

resignations, the apologies. The real apology that Michael Gove needs

to deliver it to the pupil -- the pupils and parents of Birmingham.

There was a potential threat of radicalisation. He fell to act for

four years. The Labour Party is asking, when did he know the fact

that radicalisation could have been taking place? What has been going on

for the last four years? What we in the Labour Party want to see if much

stronger systems of local oversight and accountability to situations

like this do not arise again. Is there, in your view, if some of the

Birmingham schools, an Islamist takeover? What we have seen in the

leaked Ofsted report so far is fears about cultural isolation and an

overconcentration on Islamic teaching within the curriculum. We

want young people to celebrate their cultural identity, celebrate

themselves as Muslims. We also want them to have an education which

makes them succeed in multicultural 21st-century Birmingham. We want to

be quite tough on moves towards gender segregation, a restricted

curriculum. Birmingham is a multicultural city. We need an

education system which celebrates that. What is wrong with gender

segregation? You went to an all boys school. Where you have gender

segregation, we have had a long tradition in Catholic schooling

Where you have a state education system, which is about gender

equality between boys and girls and there is an unofficial policy of

gender segregation, that is unacceptable. We should not be

tarring communities with the same brush in terms of radicalisation. We

do want to see a successful, multicultural education. Two years

ago, Ofsted rated Parkview as outstanding. Now it looks like

tomorrow it is going into special measures. What is it up to? I do

think there is an issue for Ofsted that you can go from outstanding to

inadequate so quickly. That is why we are asking for a new criteria to

be introduced to look at a broad and balanced curriculum. We have healthy

sex and relationship education. There is a real issue this morning

as the BBC has been reporting on the night for the Department of

Education. We are hearing that some of those involved in the schools

were not allowed to open a free school on security grounds. They

were allowed to allow one of the schools to be taken over as an

academy. We have a lack of oversight and accountability in schools within

Birmingham. What the Labour Party wants is a local director of school

standards to make sure we challenge underperformance and make sure we

get in confronting Islamic extremism when it was in power? I was speaking

to Hazel blears and she was very clear about the prevent programme

which they rolled out when in office. A very atomised and

fragmented school system where every school is looked at from behind a

desk in Whitehall and he put that together and you do have an

increased risk of chances of radicalisation. You have attacked Mr

Gove for gross negligence. Was it the same -- you attacked Mr Gove for

gross negligence. We are dealing with a government which has been in

since 2010. The Government needs to hold the executive to account. We

note the Department Michael Gove was warned by a senior and respected

head teacher about fears over radicalism. What did he know and

what did he act upon? We are hearing more reports of conversations about

fears, about radicalisation, taking over some of the governing bodies of

schools. We need to know what ministers did. Let me continue. You

mention the capital to prevent strategy. Was it gross negligence

for Labour to regularly consult a man who once headed a group

dedicated to making Britain an Islamic state and wrote a book about

schools full of Taliban style decrees. I think the events in

Birmingham are enormously significant. About the nature of

multiculturalism, the nature of education, the role of civic

education, the role of faith schools. I will say to you this

morning that Birmingham City Council, Ofsted, the Labour Party,

the Department for Education were all involved in this conversation.

In 2010, ministers were warned about potential radicalisation of schools

and they fell to act. We need to know why, for years on, they allowed

this situation to exacerbate. When you look at the record of labour and

this government 's record, there are plenty of examples where both of you

fail to act. Would it not be better to drop the party politics and get

together to confront this problem for the sake of the children? There

are a number of reports going on in Birmingham. Some are led by the city

council, some by the Department for Education. Labour MPs this morning

have come forward with the Bishop of Birmingham talking about faith in

schools. If you have a minister failing to do their job, if you have

a minister being given warnings in 2010 and failing to act on them for

four years, the opposition has a role to hold the executive to

account. This is about the safety and standards of teaching for pupils

in Birmingham schools. It is about a great education for these young

people so they can succeed in a modern, multicultural Britain. Do

you agree with your Shadow Cabinet colleague, Rachel Reeves, that

Labour' as core voters are abandoning the party? She was

building on what Ed said the day after the elections in Berwick. We

have to make sure those communities who we historically represent regard

Labour as having a successful message for them. I am passionate

about making sure we have great vocational and technical education,

the great academic education in our schools. If we have more work to do

to get people to the polling booths, we must do that. We must

with listen to what she says. David Cameron has staked a lot on

stopping the former PM of Luxembourg - named by one newspaper as 'the

most dangerous man in Europe' because of his federalist views -

from becoming the next president Mr Cameron has reportedly described

Jean Claude Juncker as a 'face from the 80s who cannot solve the

problems of the next five years . But with the German Chancellor

Angela Merkel publicly backing Mr Juncker, it's not a dead cert that

Mr Cameron can stop his appointment. This is what he had to say at the G7

summit earlier this week: It is important that we have people

running the institutions of Europe who understand the need for change

and reform. I would argue that view is widely shared amongst other heads

of government and heads of state in the European Union. I am clear what

I want to achieve for Britain's future, to secure Britain's placed

in a reformed European Union and I have a strategy for delivering

that, a strategy for dealing with an issue which I think if we walk away

from it would see Britain drift towards the exits.

We've been joined from Berlin by the German MEP Elmar Brok who is

a senior figure in the EPP - that's the party backing Mr Juncker.

He's also Chairman of the Union of European Federalists.

And in our Newcastle newsroom is the former Conservative MEP Martin

Callanan who until last month led the European Conservatives

and Reformists group in Brussels. Welcome to you both.

The United Kingdom, Sweden, Hungary, they don't want Mr Junker, the new

Italian Prime Minister doesn't look keen either, should he bow out

gracefully? First of all, he wants to have Mr Junker but he wants to

have his conditions. Will he become president of the European Council, a

high representative? It is a discussion to be had in the next

three or four weeks until the European Parliament can elect the

president of the European Council after the proposal of the European

Council, which has to be done after consultation with the Parliament in

the light of the European elections and by a majority vote. If not Mr

Junker, then who? There are many available candidates, I am not going

to mention them in front of someone so esteemed as Elmar Brok. Give us

one name that you would prefer? The prime Minister of Sweden, Christine

Lagarde, the minister from Lithuania, these are people who have

a record of old reform. Junker is the ultimate Europe insider. We need

radical inform. We need to respond to the message the electorate gave

us in the elections -- radical reform. Junker said he had to lie in

public, he allowed the security services to conduct a dirty tricks

campaign against his opponent. This is not who we want leading the

European Commission. Elmar Brok since the European voters have sent

a message to the parliament that they are not happy with the status

quo, why would you want a man who is synonymous with the status quo?

First of all what Martin has said is wrong. He has not done tricks

against his opponents. He was very clear on that. He is also the man

who was always for changes. He made dramatic changes as head of the Euro

group, came out of the economic crisis which was a result of the

financial crisis, made politics possible, to stop this incredible

financial sector influence of our states. I believe he is a man who

works on the programme which Mrs Merkel and others have decided in

Dublin, for the reform of the European Union, less government But

we need Europe more and he is not a man from the 80s. He is a man of

this century and in this century he made his own policy. He is the

winner of the European elections, he has a majority will stop Mrs

LANguard is not running because she knows she will not get the majority

in the European Parliament. -- Christine Lagarde is not running. It

is the Council of minister is that decides. No, the European Parliament

has the final word. The European Council can make a proposal by

majority in the light of the European elections after

consultation with the European Parliament. The council cannot get a

candidate against the will of the European Parliament. Mr Junker has a

majority in the European Parliament. Theoretically he is right, the

Parliament has do vote on the candidates proposed by the council.

I want to challenge the view that somehow he won the European

elections. There is no provision for Jean Claude Junker to stand in the

elections. He is saying that the EEP party got the most number of seats

in the Parliament but none of the electorate knew they were taking

part in this election. How many people who voted Labour in the

United Kingdom realised that their vote would count towards a German

socialist to be a candidate for the commission of presidency is a

nonsensical proposal. The elections were 28 individual elections with

hundreds of parties across Europe. To try to claim there is a

democratic mandate for somebody nobody has heard from Luxembourg to

take over the commission is a nonsense. People should know him, if

I should say that ironically. Newspapers talking about members of

the family of his wife with Nazi links... What is the answer to

Martin Callinan's point? I think it is clear that British Conservatives

have no candidate because they are not a broad European family, they

have not impacted on the selection of top candidates but it is a form

of isolation of the British Tory Party. The Prime Minister said if Mr

Junker is appointed it could lead to Britain drifting towards the EU

exit, is that credible? Is it melodramatic? It is true that we

want to renegotiate the relationship. We want some serious

reform in Europe so the people who vote in a referendum will be able to

vote to stay in if that is what they want. We need a bold reformer,

somebody prepared to engage. That is not anti the interests of the UK. We

need to recognise there is a problem with public perception of the

European Union. Elmar Brok is proud to be one of the last bastions of

federalism that that is not where most of the public opinion is in

Europe. I understand why he wants his man installed but we need to

take into account the message of the letter -- the electorate. 25% of the

publishing of France were prepared to vote for an openly racist party.

We can't just ignore the signal that the electorate were sending us. If

enthusiasm for federalism was at an all-time low, it would be a slap in

the face for the voters of Europe to have a federalist as the president,

would it not? 70, 80% of the members of the European Parliament, selected

by their people, are pro-Europeans. These are the winners of the

European elections. Even in France, a majority of voters have voted

pro-European and that should be clear, not to make this a populist

thing which is not only to do with Europe. And we want to have a Europe

which is strong, the member states should do their things. We do not

want to have a European centralism, we do not want a European state

This is not at stake. Let's talk about the question of better

governance, let's talk about what was wrong in the past, we have to

become better, to change our programme in that question. That

should be the way we lead to come to positive results. Thank you for

that. Before we go, there is a British commissioner that needs to

be appointed to Brussels, do you like the sound of that? These are

matters for the Prime Minister, I am sure he has many excellent

candidates. Do you like the sound of it? Like previous British

commissioners, Chris Patten, Neil clinic, I have just lost an election

-- Neil Kinnock for the everybody who is asked would serve, I'm sure.

Just days ago UKIP were celebrating topping the poll in the European

They're claiming they'd have had two more MEPs

and the Greens two fewer had another party not confused the electorate.

What's more UKIP say it's the fault of the body

which was set up to oversee elections - the Electoral Commission

This is a party celebrating success at the European elections. They

didn't win a single MEP but nationally polled 250,000 votes

They are an independence from Europe, mostly people who were once

in UKIP, and that is rather the point. They may look like capers,

drink like capers, sound like capers -- -- sound like kippers, but they

are not. The name and the logo were displayed on this banner when the

party launched its campaign. UKIP suggest the look, the wording and

the inclusion of UK in now confused voters, and are looking at rewriting

such a wrong. The way that seats are allocated in a European election

under a proportional representation system is using this formula. It was

invented by a Belgian mathematician in 1878 and it is essentially this.

When all of the votes have been tallied up, the one with the most

seats gets the first MEPC in a region. The others are allocated

using votes cast divided by the number of seats gained plus one --

first MEP seat in a region. UKIP were concerned with South West and

London. There they say, when the last MEP seats were being allocated,

if everyone who had voted for an independence from Europe had meant

to vote for UKIP and you tallied their votes up, and added them to

UKIP, UKIP would have been up one in each region and the greens would

have lost them. Whether you can prove that voters did that by

mistake is a very different matter. UKIP may have to just chalk it up to

experience. It has happened before, back in the European elections of

1994. Then in England under the first past the post system. This

man, Richard Huggett, decided to stand as a little Democrat and

polled a significant number of votes. The Liberal Democrat

candidate at the time is now an MP. Many people voted and afterwards

realised that they had bubbly voted for -- probably voted for a little

Democrat, not a Liberal Democrat as they had been intending to do -

bubbly voted for a literal Democrat -- probably voted.

Mr Sanders got some consolation In 1998, laws came into rule on

so-called spoiler tactics and the Electoral Commission was

established. The Electoral Commission are based on the seventh

floor of this building and they did look into this issue prior to

voting. They have given us a statement that reveals the

conclusion they came to, part of which says, we decided that the name

of the party, and its description are sufficiently different to those

registered by the UK Independence Party, UKIP, to mean, in our

opinion, that voters were not likely to be confused if they appeared on

the same ballot paper. Pretty conclusive stuff. Back at the pub,

were an independence from Europe just being crafty, or do UKIP need

to wake up and smell the flowers? We attack them in all areas. An

independent study for Anglo Netherlands because I was involved

in the Dutch -- with the Dutch member of Parliament and the

description was UK Independence now, nobody has a monopoly on the word

independence. I have been fighting for independence since I started in

1994, before I joined UKIP. The party tell me they will stand again

at the general election next year. The ironies not lost on them or the

major parties of UKIP complaining that a smaller party has been taking

votes of them. Joining me now to discuss

this story is Gawain Towler. He's the UKIP candidate for the

South West region, who failed to get And in our Bristol studios is

the victorious Green MEP for How many of the 23,000 votes that

were cast for the Independence party were meant for you? Impossible to

tell. I want to congratulate Molly for getting elected. They are the

breaks. I do not think there is a purpose in complaining about boats

that are cast. Do you think you would have one otherwise? Yes, I do.

You have to look at the would have one otherwise? Yes, I do.

You have to look boats for parties people have not heard of and those

with a long tradition that people have heard of. I do not think there

is any doubt. If you saw the spoiled ballot papers, the amount of people

who had voted at the top and the bottom, most people are not anoraks,

they say, they are the people I want. They know what they are after.

I think it is at least told. It is said you owe your seat to And

Independence Party. It is strange for a man to say he could represent

people in the south-west better than me. There has been outpouring of

delight that a Green MP has finally been elected. A number of people

have been saying they have been voting all their lives and it is the

first time they have elected anybody. I am glad to represent them

in a significant legislature. What would you say to that? I find it

strange. I am perfectly happy for her to be elected. I feel the

electoral commission has questions to answer. But, congratulations to

Molly. Why do you want an extra seat for the Greens in the European

Parliament but your national share of the vote actually fell. We did

come under pressure nationally. If he is complaining about the role the

election commission said we could stand, the rule we were not happy

with was the off, ruling which said we were not a main party. We got

significantly less media time and that is why our belt actually fell.

Not on the Daily Politics or the Sunday Politics, where you were well

represented. Was it a problem for UKIP in other parts of the country?

Only in London. What do you think happened there? Very much the same.

I do not think there is any doubt, the number of people we have had

getting in touch saying, I am really sorry, I made a mess, that they

voted for the wrong party. They are the breaks. Politics is politics.

What I would like to see and what is reasonable, and I hope Molly would

agree, there needs to be a reform - a serious reform of the Electoral

Commission. There is no appeal process. They say it is not

confusing. Lets see if she thinks that. I make it a policy never to

agree with UKIP. What is important to note, if you look at the votes

and the way the votes fell out and the seats fell out in the

south-west, it is difficult for an Electoral Commission to turn boats

into seats. UKIP got 33% of the vote and 33% of the seats. For them, the

system worked very well in the south-west. Nationally, Greens did

not get represented as the vote share would require. That is because

you get very small number of seats in the different regions and you

have to reach a high threshold. The Green Party has a right to complain

about the level of seats we have ended up with. White rapper you have

complaints about the Electoral Commission? We need to move to a

proportional system for elections generally. If we poll around 7% 8%,

we should be looking at having 0, 40 seats in the national

legislature. We need to consider proportional representation for

national elections. Do you accept the ballot paper may have confused

some people? I think what happened is that some people in UKIP were

very worried. Worried about the rightward move of UKIP and the

authoritarian leadership of Nigel Farage. He set up a separate party.

That is what happens in politics, particularly when parties are led by

demagogues and are not focused on Democratic policy. Do you have any

legal redress to this? None whatsoever. Have you had legal

advice? I am told there is no redress. We do feel, I am sure Molly

does not agree with UKIP on anything so, if we say the sun rises in the

morning, she probably will disagree with that. If, at the next election,

there is a party called the Grown Party, will she then complain? There

needs to be some level of accountability and, without that,

one wonders what is going on. We have an organisation with enormous

and important power and influence which is setup to stop this of thing

going on. It has failed. Not has it has failed. Not present served in

Tower Hamlets and there have been massive problems with postal votes.

It is failing on almost everything it is supposed to do. Just to go

back for a final point from Molly. Should there be a right of appeal to

the rulings of the Electoral Commission? You need to have an

authoritative body that makes decisions in this area and we have

the Electoral Commission. It is about being sore losers on the part

of UKIP. I am delighted to represent people in the South West. Should

there be a right of appeal or not? You need an authoritative body and

the Electoral Commission is that. I do not think it should have a right

to appeal. We say goodbye to viewers

in Scotland, who leave us now On today's show:

we'll be discussing extremism UKIP's rise at the recent elections

seemed almost irresistible. So how come Oxfordshire

managed to resist? The party didn't get

a single councillor elected in the county despite upsetting several

applecarts elsewhere in the South. First, let's meet

the two politicians who will be with Donna Jones is, as of Tuesd`y,

the Conservative Leader And John Denham is the Labotr MP

for Southampton Itchen. Congratulations Donna. The

suggestion is it will be difficult for you to keep together labour and

UKIP support and do what yot want to do. It will not be easy to running

in a trailer for that team like Portsmouth with 12 councils out of

42. However, the reason I al in the position I'm in today and I am sat

here with you as leader of ` unitary authority like Portsmouth is because

of the strength of the relationships I have got the council and because

people see me as being an open and cohesive councillor that will

include everybody. Labour, John, supporting

Conservative policies here. That is just to get rid of `n

incompetent Lib Dem administration. I spoke to the Labour leader

and the truth is I think all of the councillors have had it up to

here with the way Portsmouth was being run

by the previous Lib Dem leadership. The way they have behaved over

the Mike Hancock affair, Although, in a sense,

I am sure there will be lots of rows between Labour and the Consdrvatives

as, you would expect, the between Labour and the Consdrvatives

as you would expect, the overwhelming desire is just to see

the way the council is run being But if it is less stable,

could Labour take some Well, these are the responshbilities

local politicians have to t`ke. They have to make

the right decision. And I know

my Labour colleagues said, look we just need to run this cotncil

in an open and transparent way. You know, they are hoping Donna

will be able to deliver that. I am sure they will disagred

on lots of policy issues, But it does need to

be run differently. And I should make clear,

there is no coalition. There are no pacts

with UKIP or Labour. Both UKIP and Labour

in the chamber supported me on one single vote only, and that

was as leader of the council. I mean, I have said to them,

we can do the four`way budgdt. There are four political parties

represented in Portsmouth now, so I There will be openness

and transparency. I have been very clear about the

openness and transparency agenda. And, actually, it was that that

really drew John Ferrett to wanting to change, because

the decision was either a minority administration or stick

with the Liberal Democrat one. Actually, as John has just said

we need to change in Portsmouth There has been a decade

of misrule and, in some casds, You will be looking into sole

of those allegations, the btllying There have been a number

of accusations made. We need to take that to

the next stage. I made it very clear on Tuesday

in my acceptance speech after I was elected as leaddr

of the council that I am ordering I left the council chamber, I walked

over to the civic offices, `nd I sat there with the Chief Executhve and

with the city solicitor and I made it clear to them that I wanted an

investigation carried out ottside of the council itself because

of the accusations of previous Liberal Democrat cabinet

members, senior councillors, I am sure they will

defend themselves. And, probably,

when it comes to it as well, make Those Liberal Democrats are still

powerful and have still got a lot They have already started

making life difficult. But, actually, I think I have

got the public behind me. With D`Day 70 celebrations this

morning and yesterday, I have been around about 2000 or 3000 pdople

combined and I have been intndated with people coming up, shakhng

my hand and saying to me, wd are pleased that a local Pompey girl

is going to be running the city No political party always gdts it

right, but I think people know with me they are going to get

an honest answer and there will be no meetings behind closed doors

and I will be including all 41 John, you wrote this week about the

UKIP threat to Labour and you were No, these are things that h`ve

been pretty consistent that I have Possibly not always as publhcly

for many years now, given the experience we havd had

here in southern England. And I just want to make

two very simple points. It is not

the case that Labour has bedn In fact, if you look at our record

in Government, we were very tough. We sorted out the asylum system

we introduced As we have often said,

the Polish migration, the shze of So we should not go round s`ying we

are on in favour So we should not go round s`ying we

are in favour Secondly, there are things we can do

now about European Union migration. The abuse of the minimum wage,

the way agency workers and `gencies are used to bring people in

when more people could be elployed. But, thirdly, we should repdat

Labour's historic commitment. This is that we want a diverse

and tolerant society. So, once people are here,

they are here legally, let's build a country where we all

work together and we are proud. So I just wanted to set

the record straight. That is the argument we shotld

be making over the next year. I think there are a lot

of people out there, people who if you like, said to me

during the election campaign, I have always been Labour or usually

been Labour, but not this thme. That is the argument they w`nt us to

hear, that we understand their concerns but we have got

practical answers to it. Well, not, as you say,

a reply to UKIP. One of the stories

of the recent local elections that certainly got plenty of covdrage was

the rise of UKIP, which now has 18 more councillors in our reghon than

it did before the election. One place they conspicuouslx failed

to get anyone elected ` and the same thing happened

at the county council electhons last As our Oxfordshire political

reporter Helen Catt has been finding out, that's one county that seems

not to have fallen quite Was it this delay glint in his eyes

when he talked tough on immhgration? Was it his hard line on Europe? The

manly way he handled a pint? She did not know. But one thing was clear,

the South was falling for hhm. Nigel Farage and UKIP convincinglx won the

southeastern last month's Etropean elections and did well in the

locals, two, giving councils in areas such as West Sussex and

Berkshire. It seems Oxfordshire is playing hard to get. Despitd getting

a decent share of the vote, it was not enough to get UKIP councils

elected. `` cancel Lloris. But why? According to one of UKIP's leading

men, it was a matter of resources. Our membership is increasing on a

monthly basis. Our active mdmbers are increasing. The more we get the

message out there, we will follow suit with the rest of the

south`east. For those who study voter behaviour, they say

Oxfordshire has specific differences which make it hard for UKIP to win

under first past the post. Large clusters of highly educated

professionals and the large amount of overseas workers of all skills,

in combination with the youth vote, which tends not to be UKIP voters.

We have a combination of th`t. It explains quite a bit of the

difference. You do not need much of a difference to fail to get to that

tipping point just over it. UKIP, 903... The tipping point was reached

and a variety of places, but not anywhere in Oxfordshire. UKHP's best

option was thought to be here. They were just 11 votes short of a win

last year but Labour took the seat. But this year, Whitley South stayed

true to the Conservatives. Size not of passion but from relief hn Tory

HQ. They say voters here nor there is long`term material. We h`ve

speculative planning applic`tions, infrastructure issues, we h`ve

always not got enough money. Flooding issues. In those instances,

a protest vote is not materhalise because people fought for what has

to be done locally. `` does not Here, UKIP came a surprise second in

four out of six ports listed in Labour say that is harmless

flirtation. It is a protest fought about austerity. We will do with the

UKIP factor by doing positive UKIP factor by doing positive

things, not being aggressivd. UKIP says people's attitudes tow`rds them

have changed, particularly hn poor areas of the county. In 2008, we

campaign for the Euro electhons and local elections and we were not as

welcomed on the doorstep. Pdople did not want to know what we cotld have

done for them as local councils All they wanted to do was engagd on a

national policy and it did not want to talk about local policy. Now

they understand the message that when you are elected as a counsellor

under the banner of UK independent, we're not whipped by the party. It

is easy to see why they might appeal. Five News the Liber`l

Democrats. The space has bedn squeezed quite heavily. But good

news for UKIP, because they are occupying vast areas of territory.

That is a good thing for delocracy. Some familiar faces for you there.

You work with them. They ard interesting. Apart from getting a

huge amount of public support, they operate on a different way hn the

council. You must see that? They have been thrown in on the deep end.

They have been cancelled for a couple of weeks and thrown hnto

College in prices in Portsmouth a situation of no overall control ``

thrown into a Coalition crisis. In the interest of democracy, H had to

explain the situation the council found himself in just under two

weeks ago. I have not worked with him on policy stuff yet. Thdy have

told me things that interest them, such as moving to a committde

system. Would you give them a place our committee? I would. I do not

have the mandate to run the council in outright control. I have given

two seats to Labour, two to UKIP and two on chairmanships on comlittees

to the Lib Dems as well. Thdre are various other key outside bodies,

scrutiny panels and things like that. I have shield the work. ``

shared. Is it good for democracy? Parties represent different values

and different beliefs that photos have got. We all have different

positions. If there is a group of people with a significant sdt of

views around Europe, for ex`mple, it is perfectly right they shotld we

pay `` writes that there should be a political party that represdnts

make to people with different make to people with different

beliefs under one banner. I think UKIP will find it much harddr to put

together a coherent set of policies that, if you like, appeal to people

who come from the conservathve right. And some people to the left

of the Labour Party. I think they will find that hard next ye`r. In

places like Portsmouth, running a counsellor is a complicated hated

the is this. Europe is something that gets you to the bed, pdrhaps,

for them, but it doesn't tell you how to run Portsmouth. In

Portsmouth, with UKIP, for dxample, the chap said it is better resources

and that is why he did not win seats. That is not true. Thdy have

Siegel resources in Portsmotth. Now campaigning at all and Portsmouth

but the one six votes. `` dds won. In working`class parts, thex took

four seats and several of L`bour and the Conservatives. With reg`rds to

the Liberal Democrat seats they took, it was Mike Hancock's seat.

Very working`class area. Yotr thing I would say is it is all UKHP, UKIP

in the media. As we go into each year, the focus will be, who will be

running the country? Who has the best way of making sure that if we

get economic growth, ordinary families benefit from that? On most

of those issues, UKIP have nothing to say on that. We're going to move

on there. Another success story that xou might

have missed in all the election They picked up another MEP hn

the South West, so they've now got And indeed

in many places their share of the They also picked up a coupld

of council seats, one in Oxford Joining me now is Elise Benjamin,

who's a councillor on Oxford City Council as well

as being her party's spokesperson You have a lot of influence in Oxo

but also now in Europe as wdll. `` in Oxford. Have the media mhssed the

Green Party's growth, and if so why? Are we upset the Nigel Farage?

There is a bit of an obsesshon. We talk about a different model of

economics and how to do things. Taking a step back, not just

assuming that market led policies are way ahead. Have you got too many

policies? Is that the I would never say too many. We have a lot of

policies and a large number of policies people are not aware of.

So, we welcome opportunities like this to talk to you and see that.

Someone voted to vote for climate change, just as they want to devote

to get out of Europe, they come to you. `` wanted to vote. But they get

put off by the various other things you have in the party. Battdrs a

wider drawer. They see other parties talking about climate changd but it

is an add`on. `` that is part of the wider drawer. You cannot pick one of

those three. They have to work together. Why are you not gdtting

the protest votes against atsterity or politics? We are the younger

generation. We noticed that in Oxford. Not all areas, becatse one

of the two universities had broken up on the week of the electhon. But

certain inner city centre whll be picked up a couple of seats it was

very much students who are thinking ahead, worried it might not get the

job, even from oxygen adversity and looking at some of our mess`ge is

around and alternative to atsterity. `` Oxford University. The policy

point be put together last xear in advance of the elections including

not scapegoating migrants. The major parties are addressing immigration

more hardline way. There has not been an honest debate.

The rise of UKIP is partly the fault of other parties who have h`d far

more airtime than us and have not talked honestly about the issues. In

one of the manifesto things I saw for European election, the Green

Party said what we should bd doing is increasing the wealth of the poor

countries in Europe so people do not need to leave and move here. Is that

viable? If we in Europe, we need to have a balanced Europe. I al a great

expert on Europe. I am the local council and a focus on local issues.

But there is an imbalance. Ht links back to the economic system because

it is not really on our sidd as people, it is on the side of big

business. The issue that was not mentioned at all during the European

election was the US and European trade discussions. No`one is talking

about that except us. That could seriously impact on the welfare

especially in poor countries in Europe. Looking out for thel. And an

anti`globalisation message. Shouldn't that be were the Labour

Party is, John? Talking tough on immigration, but you say yot should

be recognised for the hardlhne. . We have taken a hard`headed in Prague

Matic approach on immigration. `` and pragmatic. We should not take an

anti`globalisation position. It could put jobs in jeopardy. We want

opportunities for young people. They were working `` the booby working in

an economy that is competing globally. `` they will be working.

Can I just finished the point I am making. We need to link givhng with

climate change with building and energy industry in this country that

provides good jobs and makes homes cheaper to heat. If you do that you

can combine all the aspirathons of the Green Party, saving the planet,

with hard`headed economics that produce good jobs. That is what we

are doing. On the East Coast Railway, we said very clearly it

should not be forced into bding a private franchise again. It fell

into public ownership because last went bust. Since then, it h`s made

money. The taxpayer has got money back. What we do about the rest of

their railway network... It is a bit Fat way, isn't it? `` third way

That really has been making money for the taxpayer and the

Conservative and Liberal Delocrat Government has done the wrong thing

with that. 30 seconds, Donn`. We talked about UKIP, but what about

the greenest party ever? How does Cameron fight the Green Party? We

have good policies, the Coalition Government. In terms of building

green and clean houses and bringing in energy policies, what is going on

at the moment in those parts of Government are outstanding. With

immigration, I think it is rich what John has just said. Highest

immigration in the ten years that Labour were running the country

that we have ever seen. Before the general election may have a tough

migration policy. We dealt with the situation that was chaotic when we

came in, as it happens, and we introduced the points `based

migration system that the Conservatives now talk about. The

record is a good one. Now, highest levels of immigration under Labour.

Are these the old parties? Xes. Globalisation has not given us the

jobs. Look at the mess that has been left. We cannot go on like this and

this is why the younger gendration are turning more to others. They see

that we have an alternative. Our regular round`up of the polhtical

weaknesses in 60 seconds. `` the political week in the South.

An action plan to improve South Oxfordshire air quality has

Pollution is over EU limits in several towns.

David Cameron's constituencx home in Oxfordshire was blockaded by

Shale gas extraction was ond of the controversial subjects

New Forest MP Des Swain was sent to the Palace as the Royal hostage

For the first time, two female MPs made the

I may have left the current leader of the opposition

Portsmouth's Penny Mordaunt was followed by Annette Brooke,

Looking back at other MPs who have represented

constituencies in Dorset, fdmales are conspicuous by their absence.

And finally, the Church of Dngland has joined the debate over HS2,

pointing out that 12th`centtry graves lie on the route.

The Archbishop's Committee has called

for human remains to be tre`ted in a decent and reverent manner

It is surprising only two women have done that loyal address, isn't it?

Shocking? Yes, I had no ide` about that. Penny Mordaunt stood ` good

job and some will say, how come she wasn't part of the Government? A

brilliant speech, but less not forget, by the time the next

election comes, what was a viable shipyard building ships for the

Royal Navy has failed. That is under Penny Mordaunt's watch. The

judgement of history was th`t the shipyard that made Portsmouth famous

has closed under her watch. I am very excited for the future of

Portsmouth. I met with Mich`el Fallon, I spent two hours whth him

some might support the building of a some might support the building of a

5`star hotel, cruise liners sailing from Portsmouth. Penny has brought

in money to the area and is doing an outstanding job as an MP. Ultimate

is the place of political ddbate at the moment. `` Portsmouth is. It is

a leading city in the South. That's the Sunday Politics

in the South. my guests. That is it for the Sunday

Politics in London. Back to Andrew. Is enough being done to

tackle extremism in schools? Will Mr Cameron stopped Mr Junker,

will make we are joined by the founder of the

Quilliam Association. If you read the Sunday Telegraph this morning,

there is a real problem. If you read the Observer, there is not much of a

problem. What is the situation in your view in Birmingham? Allegations

are seen to be -- if music was not being taught as it should be.

Instead of the rating the national holidays here during the Christmas

period, children were sent off instead on religious pilgrimage to

Mecca, then I think something is going on. From my knowledge, I know

about some of the strategies to influence. These strategies are

known as gradualism. The idea, like the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt is

to join the institutions of society and influence from within -- from

within. It is a gradual approach to Islamicisation society. We have seen

that happening in other areas, such as the decision by the Law Society

to call it shy and issue it out as guidance for solicitors. They are

saying this means that women inherit half of what men

saying this means that women inherit and adopted children do not get any

inheritance. Apostates do not get any inheritance. These are

guidelines being issued by the Law Society by Islamic. It is a medieval

take on Islam. That is what is meant. We see the same names popping

up again and again in different situations in Birmingham. Is it a

planned infiltration? In my profession of you and

planned infiltration? In my profession of you having spent 3

years on the leadership of an Islamist organisation, having been

involved Islamist organisation, having been

and setting up schools, I am very Islamist organisation, having been

certain is a deliberate plan to influence the students of this

country with a medieval interpretation of my own faith to

bring about a medieval, conservative view, and enforce things like

segregation on boys and girls within our public institutions. With these

things be acceptable if they were explicitly they schools? If they

were state. We had state Anglican faith schools. We have state

Catholic faith schools as well. Would it be acceptable if these were

state Islamic schools? That is a policy question. I am not generally

in favour. I would believe in this establishment. I am not a fan of

faith schools. I do think the solution is to ban them. I do think

these schools should start working out with an engaging with the wider

communities and not being insular and looking inwards. It is very

important. The Ofsted report is coming out tomorrow. We have already

had a taste about what it is saying about some of the schools. Is it a

serious problem? It is a very serious problem. It comes from the

segregation of children into intensely populated areas where

everyone is Muslim virtually. You have to have a system of spreading

children between schools. It very often happens, even with a secular

school like this. Nearby Catholic or Church of England schools become

like-for-like schools and that leaves the rest of the state schools

to become all of one faith. I think all of the parties are being quite

hypocritical about the profound problem of continuing to have faith

schools. You have Orthodox Jewish schools with extraordinary dogma

being taught. Indeed very strict Catholic schools with amazing dogma

being taught. To somehow only get worried when it is Islamic, when it

is Muslim schools, becomes a problem. You have to look at the

whole issue and said the state should simply withdraw from the

business of faith education. Like France? Yes, a secular school. The

overall government policy is to take power away. The dilemma with that is

that it comes with dangers. Some schools will be incompetent and some

schools will be more than incompetent, they will be maligned

in some respects. The one bit of this policy which has never been

entirely squared is how do you devolve and retain a basic minimum

of educational standards and behavioural standards while doing

it? There is an even deeper quandary for Britain. We have prided

ourselves on allowing radical views that stop short of violence. We took

on Karl Marx and the rest of Europe would not have him. The rest of

Europe could not believe how tolerably well of radical preachers

in the 1990s. Do we stick with that view? The risks were greater than

they were 100 years ago. We do expect, whatever peoples faith, that

our children, at the expense of the taxpayer, are educated, not

instructed, not indoctrinated, educated. We do expect that and also

that boys and girls are treated equally. One of the things the board

in Birmingham will be looking at which has Andrew Mitchell on it the

former development Secretary, because he is a Birmingham MP full

Sutton, they are really concerned about whether the girls are being

treated as second-class citizens. There has been a lot of work done on

empowerment of girls. Shirley Williams made the point that what

Michael Gove has done by creating free schools and academies is

undermined the work of local education authorities. They think

they are traditional bodies which are not open to reform. One school

in Birmingham which is accused of being in trouble is a local

education school. They cannot have the other side. Under Michael Gove,

they are answerable to the Secretary of State. It is down to Ofsted.

Ofsted is giving the schools, not that long ago, outstanding marks.

There are big questions about the oversight of schools. Tristan Hunt

was trying to answer that point By tapping it cannot all have gone pear

shaped in two years. How do you think that will play out? -- it

cannot have gone pear shaped. The story was broken in February. It

will keep playing out. The report that was due out Ofsted is tomorrow

or Monday. Then there is the other report that will look into wider

questions, that will come out in July, I think. We are expecting two

points. -- reports. We have to look at questions of Ofsted and other

institutions in our society, even government departments, where idea

of taxing non-violent extremism became a too boot in this country.

-- a taboo. They must be rebuffed the challenge, as we would expect

racism to be challenged. In the argument between Michael Gove and

Theresa May, where do you side? They should be challenged openly and

robust leap by civilian society It was settled by the Prime Minister

and is government policy. I had a hand in advising or consulting. I

think Fiona Cunningham was forced to resign because what she did violates

official government policy. It just has not been implemented yet. Will

Mr Cameron succeed with Juncke? You'll agree he have to decide

whether he will spirit at stopping him or accepting him as commission

president and ask in return for a massive commission portfolio for

Britain, something like the internal market, which they missed out on

last time. It is a diplomatic decision he have to make. It is too

late for that he is into deep. If he takes over the job, Cameron is left

with egg on its face. From the beginning, he did not have his voice

with the weight of the British Conservative Party, with ankle and

Arkle, the rest of them. He is reaping -- Angela Merkel, the rest

of them. He is reaping that reward. There is a lot of support within

Europe. In Germany, there was a lot of opposition to David Cameron

getting his way. I know him from Brussels. He is entertaining, you go

to dinner with him and he smokes and drinks. He is entertaining but he is

the most awful person you could think of having trying to sort of

symbolise a new European Union. I remember I was there join the

Luxembourg presidency in 2005 when the voters in France and the

Netherlands voted no to the European constitution, what was his response

to that? Let's carry on with the ratification process of this treaty

that has been comprehensively rejected by voters. He did not say

the final bit of that sentence. You can see why Eurosceptics want him.

He has blown a raspy at all the people who have protested at the

elections with the way the European Union is going. -- blown a Rasberry.

This is your most popular... What has come in most recently is doing

really well. This is yours. There we go. Cheers! By our people so

cynical? They always go for a drink at 11am and they pull their own

pipes. I see them every day. -- pts. Is there anything Mr Clegg can do is

to mark the idea is to define clearly a liberal brand, or at least

I hope it is. It is not good enough for us to say the Liberal Democrats

challenge the Tories on this, on the fairer society, and challenge the

Labour Party on a strong economy. We need to define what we stand for.

That is what I call a liberal brand, assertive liberalism. I have been

there myself and I think that is what he will be speaking about.

Standing up for liberal values, to finding -- defining what they are.

Disestablishment in getting younger people re-engage with politics. The

overwhelming number are actually liberal. We only have about 20

seconds. I suggest to you it is too late. Sign up with the one principle

on which he stood is Europe. -- the one principle on which he stood if

Europe. That is why he has been doing so badly. He cannot get out of

the hole he is in. If you fight three general elections to the left

of Labour and on the third when you are in coalition with the Tories,

you have got a problem. I will be back next week. Remember if it is

Sunday, it is the Sunday Politics. What's the hardest thing

about being a foster parent? You're constantly trying

to build the elusive trust. It's like a big old question mark

in your heart. I just try and do the best I can

for them while they're with me Join Lorraine Pascale as

she looks at stories of fostering... I wasn't happy at all, but now I am.

..including her own. Nice to know finally

where I came to the world. To know that you've grown up and had

such a successful life is lovely. 'I'm going on an adventure.'

Wow. That is a long way.

Quite a bit of it is on bikes. What are you going to do

about your hair? They told me I had good technique,

I'm quite happy with that. Is this the most adventurous thing

you've ever done? Without a doubt.