30/04/2017 Sunday Politics South

It's Sunday Morning, and this is the Sunday Politics.

Theresa May says she has no plans to increase tax levels,

but refuses to repeat David Cameron's 2015 manifesto

promise ruling out hikes in VAT, national insurance and income tax.

The leaders of the EU's 27 member states unanimously

agree their negotiating strategy for the upcoming Brexit talks, but

And in the last of our series of interviews ahead of Thursday's

local elections, I'll be talking to the leader of Plaid Cymru Leanne

In the South: You wait ages for an election,

We'll be looking at what's at stake in the first one,

the local council elections this Thursday.

They hit an all-time low after coalition government,

but are the Lib Dems poised to bounce back,

And with me to analyse the week's politics,

Isabel Oakeshott, Steve Richards, Tom Newton-Dunn.

They'll be tweeting using the hashtag #bbcsp.

So when Theresa May was interviewed just over an hour ago

on The Andrew Marr Show, the Prime Minister was asked

to confirm that she would repeat David Cameron's 2015 election

promise not to raise VAT, national insurance and income tax

We have absolutely no plans to increase the level of tax,

but I'm also very clear that I don't want to make specific proposals

on taxes unless I'm absolutely sure that I can deliver on those.

But it is, would be my intention as a Conservative Government

and a Conservative Prime Minister, to reduce the taxes

The Tories like to have a clear tax message in elections, are they

getting into a bit of a mess? That method wasn't clear, but does it

mean, saying they have no plans to increase the level of tax? We are

clear there will not be a rise in VAT, a lot of commentators will get

overexcited about that, but there was no great expectations there

would be a rise in VAT. Tempting as it is, because even one percentage

point on VAT rate is 4.5 billion for the exchequer so it is tempting but

there has been no speculation that would happen. We can see that she

clearly wants to reiterate the language about hard-working families

but I don't think we are that much the wiser. Even if she does not put

up rates, according to projections the overall tax burden, as a

percentage of GDP, is rising, will rise in the years ahead. That is why

it was an odd phrase, I know she is doing it to be evasive but to say

they have no plans to raise the general level of taxation, they do

have. We also know they have specific plans because it was in the

last budget, they had a tax rise which they had to revise, National

Insurance rises, so very wisely in my view they are keeping options

open, the 2015 tax-and-spend debate was a fantasy world, totally

unrelated to the demands that would follow. They now have the

flexibility, one of the arguments you had heard last time was Philip

Hammond saying to her, we have to break away from the 2015 manifesto

commitment and we can only do it this way, that is one of the better

arguments. The Tories like to talk about tax cuts in elections, whether

they do it is another matter, but they are not being allowed to talk

about tax cuts, they are now on the defensive over whether they will

raise taxes. That is not a healthy position for the campaign to be in.

If you look at the numbers, quite frankly, if you will not do this at

this election with eight 20 point lead over Labour, then when will you

take these tough decisions? Reading between the lines of what Theresa

May has said all over different broadcasters this morning, income

tax will go down for low-income families, such as the threshold rise

that microbes that was already factored in. She has had to commit

to it again. VAT will be fat, national insurance contributions

will go up. Do you think they will go up? I think so, she had plenty of

opportunity to rule it out and she didn't. There was a terrible mess

with the budget, it is a good tax argument but not a good electoral

argument that you are eroding the base so heavily with people moving

into self-employment that as you raise national insurance

contributions for everybody but the self-employed, it is something the

Treasury will have to look at. The other triple lock on pensions, we

don't know if they will keep to that either? If they are sensible they

will find a form of words to give them flexibility in that area as

well. I would say there is no question over that, that has gone.

As Mrs May would say, you will have to wait for the manifesto. That is

what all the party leaders tell me! Labour have spent the weekend

pushing their messages Speaking at a camapign rally

in London yesterday, Jeremy Corbyn promised a Labour

government would fix what he called People are fed up, fed up with not

being able to get somewhere to live, fed up waiting for hospital

appointments, fed up with 0-hours contracts, fed up with low pay, fed

up with debt, fed up with not being able to get on in their lives

because we have a system that is rigged against so many.

I've been joined from Newcastle by Labour's elections

and campaigns co-ordinator, Ian Lavery.

Good morning. To deal with this rigged economy, as Mr Corbyn calls

it, the Shadow Chancellor John McDonnell has a 20 point plan for

workers out today. When you add up everything he plans to do to help

workers, how much will it cost? The full costings, one thing I need to

say at the very beginning, the costings of any policy which we have

already ruled out and any policy we will be ruling out in the next few

days and weeks will be fully costed in the manifesto and in addition to

the fact that it will be fully costed, we will see it in the

manifesto how indeed it has been funded, so we are very clear,

anything we have seen already, and there are some exciting policy

releases and there will be more in the future, anything we are going to

do will be fully costed and in the manifesto. You announced a 20 point

plan but cannot tell me what the costs will be this morning so at the

moment it is a menu without prices? It is not a menu without prices, it

is a fantastic opportunity. This 20 point plan is something which will

transform the lives of millions of millions of people in the

workplace... But what is the cost? It will be welcomed by many people

across the UK. The fact the costings have not been released, you will

have to be patient, it will be released very clearly, it will

identify that in the manifesto. Let me come down to one of the points,

the end of the public sector pay freeze. Can you give us any idea how

much that will cost? The end of the public sector pay freeze, so

important to the future of the Labour Party, it is an massive

policy decision. Let me say at this stage, Theresa May, the Prime

Minister, this morning, on The Andrew Marr Show, did not have the

common decency, courtesy all respect to condone the fact that nurses, the

heroes of the NHS, have had a reduction of nearly 14% in their

wages since 2010 and are using food banks to feed themselves! Does that

not say everything that is wrong with today's society? So can you

tell me what it will cost, which is what my question was? What I will

say is everything the Labour Party pledges, everything that we come out

with, what we will roll out between now and the 8th of June, will be

fully costed, people will be very much aware of how much the costings

will be, where the funding will come from, when the manifesto is

published. What about doubling paternity leave, nu minimum wage,

four new bank holidays, any idea what it will

cost? These are exciting new proposals and of course today cost

money but we are the sixth richest economy in the world. It is about

redistribution of the wealth we create. We are seeing growth in the

economy, it is how we utilise the finances in the best way we possibly

can for a fairer society for the many and not the few. You just can't

tell me how much it will cost? That is why I will repeat again that you

need to be very patient. Do you know the cost yourself? You are the head

of the campaign, do you know the cost of these things yourself? I am

very much aware of how much the costings are likely to be, they have

been identified, they will be published in the manifesto. You

really do understand I would not be releasing today, live on your show,

any costings or predictions with regards the manifesto. Why not? You

have released the policy, why not the cost? Because there is a fine

detail and we will identify it to the general public in the manifesto.

We not only explain how much it will cost but we will explain where the

funding comes from. Be patient. Will some of the costs be met by

increasing taxes? I would think at this point in time there is not any

indication to increase basic taxes and again the taxes and spending of

the Labour Government with the proposals of the 20 point plan, the

issues we have got, housing, the NHS, crime, education will all be

identified with the costings in the publication. Can you tell us this

morning, we'll tax for most people rise or not to finance this? We in

the Labour Party are looking to a fair tax system which will be

clearly identified in the manifesto. Mr McDonnell also wants to ban all

0-hours contracts. Would that include those who actually like

those contracts? There are nearly 1 million, depending on which figured

you'd use, there are nearly 1 million people on zero-hours

contract and the vast proportion of those want to be able to live a

decent life, a secure life, they want to understand whether they will

be at work the next day, they're included hours... I understand a lot

of people don't like zero-hours contract and your proposal will

address that, but there are those, I saw one survey where 65% of people

on zero-hours contract like the flexibility it gives them. Will you

force them off zero-hours contract or if they like them will they

continue with them? We will discuss it with employee is to make sure

individuals in the workplace have the right to negotiate hours in that

workplace. Guaranteed hours is very, very important. Zero-hour contracts

are an instrument in which employers abuse and exploit mainly young

people, mainly female people in the workplace. We would be banning

zero-hour contract. But there are those, students for example, who

like them, would they be forced off zero-hour contracts in your

proposal? Our proposal would be banning zero-hour contract and

introducing contracts which have set hours in the workplace. You also say

no company will be able to bid for a public contract unless the boss

earns no more than 20 times the lowest paid, or the average wage,

I'm not quite sure which. What would happen if British Aerospace bids to

build more joint strike Fighters and the boss is paid more than 20 times?

I understand the point you raise but we have an obscene situation in this

country, Andrew, in which the bosses at the very top make an absolute

fortune... But what would happen then? Who would build joint strike

Fighters... The difference in wages between the top earners in the

country and the people in the factories, in the workshops,

producing the goods, is vast. I understand that is the reason you

want a ratio. What I am saying is, what happens if the ratio is

greater? Who gets the contract if not British Aerospace? Who else

builds the planes? We are going to introduce a wage rate CEO of one to

20. -- wage ratio. We want to close the gap between the people at the

very top and people who produce the goods. Let me try one more Time, who

would build the joint strike fighter? We would look at the issue

as it came along but the policy is clear... Can you name a single

defence contractor weather boss' salary is less than 20 times average

earnings? We are not reducing, we have rolled that out as part of this

fantastic plan to transform society to get rid of discrimination, to try

and bring together our communities. We will introduce a pay ratio of one

to 20. Fair enough, thank you very much.

It's a month after the triggering of Article 50, and EU leaders -

with the exception of Britain - met in Brussels this weekend

to agree their opening negotiating stance, to get the divorce

It is inside this psychedelic chamber where Britain's 'Grexit'

future will be decided over the next two years, but there is a vast gulf

in rhetoric coming from the UK and the EU. With parallel narratives

emerging for both sides. There is broad agreement that an orderly

withdrawal is in the interests of both sides. But Theresa May's

position is that the terms of our future trade deal should be

negotiated alongside the terms of our divorce. Meanwhile the EU says

the terms of the UK's exit must be decided before any discussion on a

future trade deal can begin. But don't forget that divorce

settlement. Don't remind me. In Brussels, many think written should

pay even more, while in the UK ministers said the divorce bill

should be capped at 3 billion. After you. Thank you.

For are you looking forward to it? Isn't that divorce bill a bit high?

Isn't this about punishing Britain? We are very united, you all seem so

surprised but it's a fact. How soon can we get a deal? We have to wait

for the elections. It was the decision of Mrs May. It took over an

hour for the leaders to make their entrances but once inside it's just

a few minutes to agree the negotiating guidelines. They set out

three main areas. The first phase of talks on the divorce settlement will

deal with the existing financial commitments to the EU, the Northern

Ireland border and the rights of EU citizens in the UK. They said a UK

trade agreement can be discussed when the first phase of talks

reaches significant progress. And that there must be unity in the

negotiations, that individual EU members won't negotiate separately

with the UK. They are quite good here at negotiating because they are

used to it. They set a maximum and then they have to recede a little

bit depending on what the other side is prepared to offer. I think there

is room for manoeuvre in some issues, but I don't think some of

the baseline things will change that much. For example I don't think the

European Union will concede on the rights of citizens who are already

in the UK. It will be very difficult for them to accept that they will

not be any exit bill, and the question of Northern Ireland is very

important as well, the hard order question. The baseline things are

not going to move that much, then you have room for manoeuvring

between. On security, defence and the fight against terrorism, the

guidelines said the EU stands ready to work together. And after lunch,

friendly signs from some EU leaders as they gave individual press

conferences. Paul and said the talks should open doors to new

opportunities and even German Chancellor Angela Merkel, who had

earlier said some in Britain were deluded about Brexit, softened her

tone saying there was no conspiracy against the UK. Unity was the

buzzword at this summit and for once everybody seemed to be sticking to

the script. That unity is not only amongst the 27 states, it's also

among the institutions so many of the divisions we have seen in the

past at European level do not exist. That is very important and it's not

be unity that is directed somehow against the UK because I think we

all want this to be an orderly process and part of that is that the

EU side is unified. So although there are no surprises here, what

took place in this room was a significant step towards the real

Brexit negotiations which will begin soon after the general election in

June, said to be the most complex the UK has faced in our lifetimes.

Isabel, Steve and Tom are still with me.

Isabel, doesn't the British media have to be a bit careful here? We

would never take at face value anything a British politician tells

us. We would question it, put it in context and wonder if they are

bluffing, but we seem to take at face value anything a European

politician says about these negotiations. You only have to look

at the front page of the Sunday Times today to see that. They quoted

at length Juncker, who didn't like the food at the reception and this

and that, and I think the mood is very optimistic. The key thing is

the EU trade Commissioner has said we will get a free trade deal and a

lot of people seem to be wilfully ignoring that incredibly big

concession. That is what will happen in their view. Everything that is

said at the moment needs a slight rerun over. They are all in

negotiating positions, plus we seem to be completely unaware that they

all have their own domestic constituencies as well. Angela

Merkel has an important election coming up in September,

Euroscepticism is quite different from Britain of course, but there's

a different kind of euro scepticism in Germany, she has got to deal with

that. Of course she has, which is why you are right, nothing should be

taken too seriously out of the mouths of British politicians or

European politicians until October this year. We have got to wait for

the French elections, then German elections, and if you look through

this you can see a way forward. There's no trade talks until pay up,

but what was actually written was no trade talks until we make

significant progress on the money. You can define significant progress

in a lot of ways but come December, fireworks over the summer, we all

get very excited about it, in these chairs I'm sure, come December

things will look a lot smoother. The German elections are at the end of

September but I've seen reports in German press, depending how it goes

it could take until Christmas before a new coalition government is put

together. The Brussels long-standing negotiating tactic of nothing is

agreed until everything is agreed, then I guess the British could say

we agree a certain sum of money if that's what it takes but that

depends on them, what good trade deal we get. If we don't get that,

the sum of money is off the table. In that sense, the two are going

parallel. However, I wouldn't entirely dismiss what people are

saying in their pre-election periods to their own electorates because

they have to some extent to deliver subsequently. Of course Angela

Merkel is campaigning and electioneering, who wouldn't, she

has a tough election to fight, but she is measured and thoughtful and

when she says things like some of the British are delusional, that is

unusually strong language for her. What was she referring to? I don't

know, it wasn't specific. Have the cake and eat it perhaps the

sequencing the British don't want. When they thought the British

government was going to effectively demand membership of the single

market, that's not going to happen now. Unless you sign up to the four

pillars, that's the cake and eat it proposition, which they are right in

saying Theresa May has made. But everybody has access, even with no

deal you have access. The other side of it is I think there will be a

united position from them. And so, as somebody pointed out in that

report, they are experienced, tough negotiators, so I don't think it

will be quite as easy as some think. I spoke to one of those who drew up

Article 50 and they said to me they deliberately put this two year

timetable in to make it impossible for anybody to think about leaving.

This is really tight, this negotiation. Easy, it isn't.

This coming Thursday, voters up and down the country

will be going to the polls in this year's local elections.

Over the past few weeks I've interviewed representatives

of the Conservative Party, Labour, the Liberal Democrats,

Today it's the turn of Plaid Cymru and the SNP.

A little earlier I spoke Alex Salmond, who until 2014

I started by asking him why Scots should vote SNP in local elections

when the Scottish Government had just cut central Government funding

It's actually a funding increase going into Scottish councils this

year, and if you look at the funding position for example between

Scottish councils and those in England, which are obviously

directly related through the Barnett formula, the funding in Scotland has

been incomparably better than that in England so there's a whole range

of the -- of reasons... What's happening south of the border

indicates the protection the Scottish Parliament has been able to

put in that helps vital services in Scotland. But there hasn't been a

funding increase, the block grant from Westminster to Edinburgh was

increased by 1.5% in real terms but the grant to councils was cut by

2.6%. It was going to be a cut of 330 million, the Greens got you to

reduce it to 170 million but it is still a cut of 2.6%. Your own

Aberdeenshire Council has had a cut to 391 million. You have cut the

money to councils. Yes, but councils have available to them more

resources this year, and as you say the budget increased that further

which is why we put forward an excellent local government budget in

Aberdeenshire and resisted a Tory attempts to knock ?3 million off...

You asked me about Aberdeenshire, and Aberdeenshire has put forward a

budget for investment expansion and resisted a Tory attempts to knock ?3

million off the education budget, and I'm very grateful you have given

me the opportunity to make that point. The Government in Edinburgh

has cut the money to Aberdeenshire by ?11 million. It is a cut. But

there is an investment budget in Aberdeenshire that has been made

available by the ability to increase the council tax by 2.5% after a

nine-year freeze in Scotland, and that has brought more resources into

local government and that's why the butchered in Aberdeenshire has been

an investment budget including protection of the education budget

in the face of a Tory and liberal attempt to cut bit. You have to

compare what is happening in Scotland and England, and there's no

doubt Scottish local authorities have been much better funded than

those in England over the last few years and that's been the ability of

the Scottish Government to protect the services at local level. A good

reason for voting SNP. If they have been so well funded, why after a

decade of SNP rule do one in five Scottish pupils leave primary school

functionally illiterate? You have got to take these things... Nicola

Sturgeon has made it a top priority to address these challenges but

let's take another statistic. 93% of Scottish kids are now emerging from

school to positive destinations, that means to further education,

apprenticeships or work. Why are one in five functionally illiterate? You

argue one statistic, I'm arguing Scottish education is putting in

some substantially good performances like the 93% going on to positive

destinations. You can't have a failing education system if you have

got that 93%, and incidentally a record low youth unemployment in

Scotland without the second lowest unemployment rate in Europe. These

pupils are being prepared by the Scottish education system. Let's

take the figures in the round on education. It's so important. Under

your watch, under your government, the Scottish schools in the most

important global comparison have fallen from tenth to 19th in

science, and 11 to 24th in maths, that is a record of decline and

failure. That is by the OECD and first questions about that, but the

OECD has also described Scotland is one of the best educated societies

in the world. That was from the school system in previous years gone

by. For those who are currently in Scottish schools, you have fallen

from 11th to 24th in mathematics. The OECD was commenting on

introduction of the new curriculum for excellence in which they have

given a resounding thumbs up to it, and that's the same source as the

rankings which you are comparing. Nicola Sturgeon has said there are

challenges on Scottish education, particularly the access through the

education system and the attainment gap but don't tell me it's failing

when 55% of our pupils have gone on to higher education. That's one of

the most impressive figures in the world. Why have you cut 4000

teachers? The pupil numbers in Scotland have been falling over

recent years as well and now of course we are increasing the number

of people going through teachers training so we can make sure that

number increases, but listen, the Scottish Government and Scottish

Parliament, as you very well know, are subject to real terms spending

cuts over the last few years and all public services have been under

pressure. The main reason in terms of teacher numbers has been an

attempt on the Scottish Government to protect the teacher pupil ratio,

and that will now be enhanced by a further taker -- intake. You

promised you would reduce primary class sizes to 18 and instead they

are now 23.5 and rising. You broke that promise. You didn't mention

where we started from. We have kept the teacher pupil ratio very solid

in Scotland and that's been against a range of public expenditure cuts

but the new intake of teachers into the new teacher training in Scotland

I think will enhance the system. You have spent in the pasty in

Hollywood 43 hours on Government time debating independence. How many

hours have you debated education on Government time? I don't have that

they get a hand... The answer is zero, you have spent zero-hours

debating education on Government time. Isn't it time the SNP got back

to concentrating on the day job? Andrew, as you very well know Nicola

Sturgeon has identified a key priority, closing the attainment gap

in Scottish education. That is exactly what she has done. Let me

answer the question, it is difficult to be in a remote location, if you

talk before I answer the question then the view was will not be able

to listen. I let you answer that without saying a word. Is this

general election about independence, as you say it is, or not about

independence, as Mrs Sturgeon says it is? No, I have said exactly the

same as Nicola Sturgeon on that. The issue what independence will be

decided in a national referendum of the Scottish people. The mandate for

that referendum was gained in last year's Scottish elections. What this

election is about is backing the right of the Scottish parliament to

exercise that mandate and also providing real opposition to this

Tory Government and allowing the Scottish Parliament to reverse

austerity and some of the public expenditure cutbacks you have been

talking about, that is what this is about, backing our Scottish

Parliament. Alex Salmond, speaking

to me earlier. I'm now joined by the leader

of Plaid Cymru, Leanne Wood. You accuse the Government of wanting

an extreme Brexit, those are your words. What is the difference

between hard Brexit and extreme Brexit? My concern is the way in

which we leave the European Union could be very damaging to Wales if,

for example, there are tariffs introduced then that would have a

real impact in terms of Welsh jobs, and I want to make sure that we have

a Brexit that doesn't cause the damage to Wales that could be

caused. But what is the difference between extreme and hard? Anything

that puts Welsh jobs at risk is either extreme or hard and

unacceptable to Plaid Cymru, and we will do what we can to protect those

jobs. You want Wales to remain a member of the single market even if

the UK isn't, which would mean Wales having to accept the free movement

of people, still being under the jurisdiction of the European Court,

and you also want to stay in the customs union which means you could

not do your own free trade deals. What is the difference between that

and being a member of the European Union? We would be like Norway,

outside the European Union and inside the single market. The key

question is the issue of jobs and the ability to continue to trade.

Wales exports, we are the biggest exporter in the whole of the UK, so

there are many jobs reliant upon those goods being able to be sold to

the single market. Is it central to the UK? Out of the four countries

that make up the UK... Proportionally, yes. If you remain

in the single market, it is hard to see how Wales could stay in the

single market if the UK -- when the rest of the UK was not, you cite

Norway, that has free movement, it has to be said, it effectively have

to accept the jurisdiction of the European Court, it is not in the

customs union so it can do some of its own free trade deals, but the

Welsh people voted to leave. We have to accept the principle of free

movement if there is not going to be a hard border between the north and

south of Ireland. There is going to be free movement within Ireland and

therefore freedom of movement, as we said in the referendum campaign,

would be very, very difficult to rule out. You lost that campaign, as

you know, Wales voted to leave, 17 Council areas voted to leave, only

five voted to remain. Doesn't it explain why your party is going

nowhere? A majority in Wales voted to leave but you effectively want to

support that and de facto remain in the EU? I don't accept that, we

accepted the result but Plaid Cymru now is about defending Wales. There

are so many risks facing our people from the jobs perspective, the

privatisation perspective, the cuts perspective, and from the fact that

the Tories would like to grab power was back from our National Assembly,

so the key point... If you look at the Wales bill that went through

recently, the list of reserved powers there suggests there are some

powers currently within the Welsh Assembly jurisdiction that would be

dragged back. Which power was will Westminster take back? They could

take powers back over the NHS, for example. There is no indication they

want to do that. The Tories have attacked the Welsh NHS. That is my

point! Quite viciously. If they increase their mandate, I wouldn't

put it past them to try to take power was back over the NHS and then

of course we risk our NHS being privatised though this election is

all about defending Wales, protecting Welsh people from further

privatisation and cuts and a power grab from the Tories. Why is there

never a breakthrough for your party, Plaid Cymru? Labour dominated in

Wales for years, the Tories do quite well, Ukip had a surge for a while,

it looks like the Tories will have another surge, never you, always the

bridesmaid, never the bride. Wait until Thursday and I think you will

see that in many parts of Wales we will increase our representation at

a local council level. In the Rhondda, where I am assembly member,

we are looking to increase our representation... You are only 13%

in the polls will stop which is half of even the Tories in Wales! If you

don't breakthrough in the selection, if the real problem is going

nowhere, do you think you will pack it in? Robert Green not, I have a

job to do, a vision of Wales which is about building up our nation and

standing on our own two feet and my job is not done yet. Thank you for

being with us as part of your job, we will see how it goes on Thursday.

It's just gone 11.35, you're watching the Sunday Politics.

We say goodbye to viewers in Scotland who leave us now

On today's show We've heard a lot, perhaps too much, about how we can

be stronger or more stable, but can you use town

planning to help residents get leaner and fitter?

Three communities in the region have been designated Fit Towns,

But first let's look at this Thursday's local elections,

and meet the four politicians with us this morning.

Ray Finch is one of UKIP's MEPs for the South East of England,

Glenis Ansell is leader of the Liberal Democrats

on Wiltshire Council, Ed Turner is the Labour Deputy Leader

on Oxford City Council, and Caroline Dinenage

Before we let our guests loose on one another,

let's get a bit of an idea of what's at stake when we vote on Thursday.

These elections were last held in 2013, when the political

landscape, it's fair to say, was a bit different.

It's the county councils that are up, along with the Isle

of Wight, so there are no elections in any of the unitary

authorities in Berkshire, or Portsmouth and Southampton,

which makes a total of 524 council seats up for grabs in the South.

We sent our political reporters out to take the temperature

All eight MPs are Conservative, and the Tories have around three

quarters of the seats on the County Council.

But with two new unitary authorities looming,

this could be the last ever County Council election

The plans to merge nine Dorset councils have proven

highly controversial but the General Election in June

means the final decision is going to be put on hold

so it is very much a period of great uncertainty.

One thing is for certain, though, if the new structure for councils

in Dorset is approved by the government it would kick-in

in 2019 with new elections required meaning people here would have

to return to the polling booths all over again.

For some that would be for the sixth time in four years.

You might come to the Isle of Wight for some peace and quiet,

Just a few months before these hotly-contested County Council

elections the Conservatives took control of the council

Over these choppy waters on Hampshire County Council things

might be a little bit calmer, where there is a large Tory majority

Ukip won 10 council seats four years ago.

It's now seven, and they go into these elections with half

the number of candidates as they had four years ago.

Turbulent times, but will voters be all at sea on May 4th.

The balance of power is on a knife edge in Oxfordshire.

The Conservatives have been in control for the past four years

but they haven't had an overall majority.

They had to form an alliance with two Independents.

Here in Abingdon it is a key battle ground, with some wards Conservative

Up the road in Oxford Labour have a strong base of support

but two areas opted for the Green party last time around so it remains

to be seen if the Conservatives can cling on to power,

or if one of the opposition parties will be taking over at County Hall.

Like most of the South, West Sussex is a staunch Tory area.

The Conservative Party have had overall control

of the council since 1997, with 46 out of the now 70 seats,

it is a comfortable majority but with all of those seats up

for election and some hotly contested local issues,

whether that stays comfortable - wait and see.

Like much of the South this will be Ukip's first real test

They go into this election with ten seats and are the main opposition

Will they make any gains or will Ukip lose those seats?

Here in Surrey all 81 seats up for election at a time

when the County Council has been in the headlines over funding

For many years this has been a Conservative heartland

and the party is very much in control at County Hall,

with 57 councillors, one of the largest Conservative

The main opposition groups and parties are the Residents'

Association and Independent councillors, who have nine

seats, and the Liberal Democrats, who have eight.

All of the parties will be fighting hard to keep what they have,

So much doesn't seem to change in our county councils but compared to

the last time we voted there has been a lot of change. Jeremy Corbyn

is in charge in the Labour Party and how do you think that will play out?

A lot has been happening in Oxfordshire, the chief executive was

sacked and given a big payoff and then he wasn't up to the job are

many as employed someone else am people are being wasted... Will will

we get gossip from all of the councils? There is of splitting the

whole thing and getting different councils. Another trait of this

individual is battling all of his Conservative colleagues are moving

us try to take over everything. The County Council record is woeful.

Terrible services for children, vulnerable children badly let down

and that awful record in particular of keeping people in hospital rather

than releasing them into the care setting that they need. I think

local issues will be at the forefront of people's minds. In

Oxfordshire certainly there was criticism, even from the

Conservative Prime Minister, David Cameron, over the period of time,

saying you should be being more efficient but they were saying they

are not getting the money back from central government. Is it more to do

with central government staffing of local authorities and what they

need? There is truth in both of those things. When the County

Council is closing children's centres even the Prime Minister 's

mother felt moved to write in and rightly so. It was a disgraceful set

of decisions and equally we know that

councils up and down the country are being hammered and it is leaving

people, particularly the most vulnerable, particularly the

homeless, those who rely on social care and children really suffering

because of the cutbacks as surfaces are not being resourced and

mismanaged by the Conservatives. Local authorities have been hit by

the austerity agenda and in Surrey they said they needed 15% more

before they were persuaded to call off the increase. Like all

businesses up and down the country all local authorities to tighten

their belts and run a tighter ship. We have seen that the vast majority

of the councils who have managed to do it are those who happen to be

Conservative councils and they can do it in the same way that

businesses do it by making sure that they keep their costs low and

looking at their overheads and making sure they are one in a much

more businesslike way. Wider places like Dorset and Oxfordshire have to

be thinking about merging councils together like this just to save

money? Make sense. You want to cut down overheads and your management

costs and the big wage bills at the top of the organisation so you can

protect the front line services. I saw it today, I live in the

Conservative run Hampshire council and I drove into Labour run

Southampton Council for your programme and nearly drove into a

pothole that was nearly disappearing inside because it was so enormous.

There are potholes everywhere! It is tangible, it is obvious to voters

where councils are good on running a leadership and cutting down on waste

and cutting down on front line services and other areas where they

are not. So in Portsmouth, conservative run, the roads are

smooth? They're always golden in Portsmouth, you know that. Potholes

are an important test, in Wiltshire in particular. Absolutely, and they

are the centre of the campaign in regard to people's

perception about how the council is operating. The council needs to be

efficient at what she is an advantage of the future, isn't it?

You have one council running all the services. Watcher is a unitary

authority so it has already cut a tear of organisation out and we have

had a promise from the Conservative administration that for five years

they would not raise council tax so there was no council tax paid for

five years which on the face that looks like a wonderful idea but in

the process of doing it we have lost our youth service, our music

service, we have had all sorts of cuts to the voluntary sector, and

now for the last two years rises that amount to almost 11% have been

levied on people and they are facing cuts in benefits and universal

credit will be difficult and the council has chosen this particular

time. Local authorities surely needed to be more efficient, and

that is what is now happening in Wiltshire, they are more efficient?

I wouldn't agree with that. I think we have lost too much. The cuts

occurred during the years when there was no council tax paid and we will

never see those services again, we will never get the music service

pack all the children centres back and we will never get to put the

voluntary sector back where it was. To go to my previous point, we have

people are very difficult circumstances, low income families

facing universal credit and the roll-out of the new benefit system

and we now have cuts in the council tax relief scheme. It is a really

hard time the people and we are not protecting the vulnerable or the

children in our society and that is what we should be doing. We are

looking at vanity projects. Back in 2013 said it was a very different

picture with Ukip picking up a lot of seats. We were council in

Hampshire and you lead the group for some time, what difference has Ukip

made? What we have done is we have said there is an alternative option.

Instead of the all parties just carrying on we have had Labour

saying we will spend whenever possible and the Tories have said

Hampshire County Council still has Hampshire County Council still has

account that it does not spend but account that it does not spend but

we have said you have to be sensible and work with the workers and you

need to find out... What difference need to find out... What difference

has it actually made? What about has it actually made? What about

as there is a giant Tory majority as there is a giant Tory majority

then of course it doesn't make any difference in the actual spending

policies but what it does is it gives a voice to people and that is

the best you can do as a minority party at the time. All we have to do

is work and keep saying to people, is work and keep saying to people,

you know, this is what we believe in, and it is a long process. It was

about Europe really, though, wasn't it? Things go up and down in

politics, we have all seen it. At the moment Labour is looking upon

getting virtually annihilated in the general election, but they will be

of being down. We will have a short of being down. We will have a short

period in this election where we are going to find it tough but we will

come back because we have the right answers. You all had a chance to

talk about your local areas and parties but Caroline, you are a

minister in this government, and I feel sometimes that the local

Conservative leaders of county councils are the ones who are most

opposed to what the central government is doing? We will not

lie, it has been tough for everybody, for every council and

but I think we now come out of this but I think we now come out of this

and we move forward in this leaner, with much as waste, much less focus

on the things that don't matter. A on the things that don't matter. A

lot of anger in the country, and particularly amongst county

councils, which is where the votes councils, which is where the votes

will be. It must be difficult for conservative county councillors who

run most of these councils to defend run most of these councils to defend

do. We all have to make tough do. We all have to make tough

decisions, as governor sisters there are tough decisions about how you

business you have to question how business you have to question how

for 20 years before going into for 20 years before going into

politics and running a business you politics and running a business you

look at keeping your cost damn and running efficiently and keeping your

customers happy but keeping council tax low and keep the services strong

and keeping the waste minimal has been what it has been all about, and

we have cut mass of the waste minimal has been what it has been

all about, and we have cut massive. Strong, lean, fit... Leads us on

another thought. Now, we all know we probably ought

to get a bit more exercise, maybe eat more healthily -

governments have been telling But just telling us

may not be enough. A year ago NHS England announced ten

so-called Fit Towns which are trying to use things like the planning

system to create Our Oxfordshire reporter

Bethan Phillips put on her track suit to see how

the idea's shaping up. We all know about some of the best

ways to keep healthy. This is The NHS is convinced it can

improve our health by making This time last year

ten healthy towns were announced, and three

of them are in the south. in Oxfordshire and the Bordon and

Whitehill development in Hampshire. And with more and more of us

becoming overweight and unfit, it is clear that taking steps to become

healthier could have a big impact. I see a lot of patients in here

who come for their blood pressure medications and their cholesterol

tablets, and that's fine but going out and being more active

and losing some weight is miles more effective than anything I can

prescribe on my prescription pad and it comes without any side

effects and it's free. Here in Bicester, the healthy town

idea centres on this new housing Developers are trying to keep cars

off the streets with parking away from homes, to give

more children more room to play outside, but are these kinds of

nudges towards healthier lifestyles Whether you are healthy or not

is more than just about whether you have a takeaway on the corner

or whether you have a cycle lane There are all sorts

of things, like the levels We know that fresh fruits

and vegetables are expensive. And if you are going

to smoke, you will be as unhealthy in a healthy town

as you will be in any other kind of The healthy towns project

in Bicester is being widened out to include the whole area,

so a year in, what stage are we at? We have spent a lot of time

talking to teachers, talking to employers,

talking to voluntary groups, to identify what the real issues

are and what can be done to deliver A lot of talking so far but plans

are in the pipeline for new cycling and walking

routes and healthy events, controls on the kind of food

children can access in schools. We are looking as much as possible

at what can be done to encourage healthy opportunities, so

not necessarily a ban on fast food but actually saying

what are the food outlets, Children don't need

that sort of thing. There are the schools that have got

chip shops near them and the kids will go and have a portion of

chips instead of eating healthy, so, I had loads of soft drinks

and things when I was young but we played lots of sport

and we went out all the time I think that's a far greater enemy

to children's obesity than Healthy town status is bringing

?1.2 million to Bicester, What I want to see

is if you're going to put money behind a policy,

what is the evidence And that is really critical,

especially in times of austerity, You know, how else could that

money be used if you are not developing the things that

you have in these healthy towns? But experts say just

because we don't have the research to back this up yet,

it doesn't mean the idea won't work. We know that we have

great evidence that there is a link between urbanisation

and a link between environment and the way we behave in our health,

so we know there is that link, so actually there is support

for the healthy We haven't done evaluation

on healthy towns themselves, but that

is incredibly difficult to do before

you build the healthy towns. So will healthy towns make us

better, faster, stronger? It seems we will have

to wait for the projects to be up and

running to find out. that is the sort of thing that saves

money in the long run, I guess. It must be difficult to do when all of

the budgets are being cut? It is difficult to do when budgets are

being cut but we have to look very carefully at road networks in the

transport as well because a heavily life -- a healthy lives are as good

but if you live in an area where you breathe polluted air you have a risk

to your health they're so there are other concerns that we need to think

about. We have introduced a scheme with people getting out of their

cars and cycling and walking to school and it lasted six weeks that

was great but we need to do more of that, we need to encourage more

people to do the community thing of thinking about everyone else. Are

good ideas like that being lost in local government? People of lots of

good ideas and some of happening and this is one example. People

recognise in the abstract that prevention is better than cure but

without resorting it can't happen and unfortunately the

competitors spending review cut expenditure on health prevention by

3.9% a year and the King 's fund has done really good research Samak

councils need to hack away even more than that. Another example is that

older people suffer from isolation which imposes costs on themselves

and their families but rural bus networks are being hacked away.

People know what the right thing to do is but if it isn't backed by

resource links then councils have to make false economies and cut back

and at the end of the day the more vulnerable in society suffer. This

sort of decision is being made and people have heard about it and they

are voting on it in council elections. Absolutely, that is why

the government is investing in healthy towns. Three places in the

south of England? Right across the UK. If you look at childhood

obesity, it doubles at primary school, it is one in ten of children

aged five and one in five of children when they get to 11 and

that is partly because children are not playing out anymore. Only 21% of

children play outside where 71% of their parents did so we need to have

more play facilities and cycling routes and make housing... Is this

happening? People should not be listening to the cries that we do

not have money to get on and do it? It is happening, you can see on your

BT that it is not pie in the sky, it is happening. On a new town

development but not everywhere? It is much more difficult to do

retrospectively to our towns and cities that are hundreds of years

old but if we didn't do this with our new housing developments in ten

years' time we would be kicking ourselves because one in six deaths

has some direct attribution to inactivity and that costs the

economy ?7.5 billion per year and we have to do something about it and

the best place to start is in big new housing developments. This sort

of forward-thinking stuff is not efficient but it saves money in the

long run? Huge problem we have been the last 30 or 40 years is all of

the school play yards were closed down, sold off for more housing

developments. Kids have got nowhere to go out and play. There is nowhere

for them to go and play so they hang around and instead of which, give

them playing fields, give them football fields to play in. Make

sure that part of those, we see all the new housing developments now but

there is nothing there. All they are is commuter warrants. There is

nowhere for people to play and we need to restore, whenever we build a

school, make sure it has facilities. Is that happening? They were sold

off in the last Labour government and I have stayed in my constituency

that we had a massive 3G community pitch and we have a massive new

sports hall. At a local level budgets are so tight that

playgrounds are still being closed because they cannot maintain the

equipment that is getting old. School sport has been massively

reduced across the country and we all know that is happening because

schools are really struggling. Some of this just needs a reality check.

We hear about these beautiful new housing developments but the truth

is school sports are being hammered and investment in preventative

health services is being cut and on the front line people are really

struggling and people like Carolina in denial. You have to consider

where to go back to to start correcting the problem and it has to

start in the home and at school. You have to have children educated into

eating properly and exercising properly. We have a health service

at the moment that does not cope with it education service that isn't

coping either so I don't know where you would start but you need to

start in the home and talk healthy eating and healthy exercise and that

that is the way you will start. That needs more money but overall there

is just not enough in the pot. It starts with education and health and

this government has put an extra ?10 billion into health funding in

England and if you want to see what happens to a health service that is

underfunded, or you have to do is look at the Labour run Welsh

National health service. Talk to someone education expat people

aren't stupid, you don't need to tell them to eat healthily and

exercise, people know that. These games work. You need to give people

the absolute ability to do these things. If you can to someone who is

living in a tightly built housing estate and saying, you need to do

more exercise, they will around you, and they will say where? There is a

road full of pollution, they can't do that. Last word to you, Ed. This

is, you are saying it is a failing system at the moment and the sort of

things are not happening? Absolutely, when you talk to

front-line professionals health service, they are desperate for more

intervention but we have hospitals at crisis point out any clock full

of people who should be seen by GPs instead and unfortunately old people

are shacked up in hospital wards and they should be in social care

we will take the mandate that we want. To all three of you, thank

you. Andrew, back to you. So, how will Thursday's local

election results affect Who's winning the

election ground war? And as he celebrates 100

days in the White House, We have the local elections, Metro

elections in Liverpool, greater Birmingham, West Midlands, how will

they play into the general election? Significantly, it is very unusual.

People keep comparing this with the election in 83, not! Margaret

Thatcher was nervous and to wait until after the local elections to

call the election to see the result. We are getting these result in the

middle of an election campaign so it will be important, whoever does

badly will suffer a dent in confidence in terms of how they

approach the election and we are also going to have mayoral figures

as a reminder of another big difference with the 80s that however

big, say, the Conservatives win in Westminster, there are now sectors

of power in other parts of the United Kingdom which were not there

in the 80s. One of the reasons niches that are rated in 83 was

memories were still alive in political circles of 1970, Wilson

saw the local election results and thought, I can win, he was told he

would win by the Economist magazine, who had done the analysis, and of

course he lost, so that is why she waited, Mrs May does not need to

wait for that at all now, and on the Metro elections, the one she will be

looking at is the West Midlands, that is the one that is a

competition. I think she can really lose on Thursday in the local

elections, governing parties are supposed to take effect again,

losing lots of council seats. She is projected to put on 100 or so seats,

Labour projected to lose around 200, the first time the main opposition

party has shed seats since something like 83 so clearly the local

elections give Mrs May great momentum going into the general

election campaign but there is a downside in that, which is what we

have already heard fighting about this morning, if it looks like it is

going too well for the Tories, it says to voters, why bother turning

up? Sushi comes up with totally unbelievable sound bites this

morning that this is the most important general election in her

lifetime. Really?! For her it is! It always is until the next one! I

wonder if voter turnout is a problem? Tory voters are more likely

to vote than Labour voters. If there is a sense that it is all over bar

the shouting, the overall turnout will be low that Tory voters are

still likely to turn out more than Labour voters so she would still win

some. I don't think she needs to be too worried, I think there will be a

significantly low turnout, even I am finding it hard to be that excited

about this general election. Really, the policies, we have spent a lot of

time talking about them today and we have to examine them, but all this

is about is, do you want Theresa May or Jeremy Corbyn in Number Ten?

Those are the only question is, apart from possibly how strong do

you feel about Brexit, that will be on the voters' minds. You may say

that but I will not be put off from going through a list of policies

that we have already had in the last 24 hours. On the Conservatives, more

powers to stop company bosses under pensions, of course Philip Green was

in mind there. Labour has come up with quite a few policies, actually,

give all work of equal rights, whether part-time or full-time,

temporary or permanent. Ukip, scrap VAT or takeaway -- on takeaway food

and end the BBC licence fee. The Liberal Democrats have come out

posed to the runway at Heathrow. I thought I knew that already? Will

any of these policies make a difference? They are all nice handy

things that people quite liked but probably not, is the answer. They

are an awful way away from polling day now for people to remember and

latch onto. I don't think you make your mind up on small issues like

Heathrow, unless you live in Richmond-upon-Thames, maybe, but the

problem Labour have got with unfailing a lot of these retail type

policies which, in themselves, are very popular, is no one will listen

to them until they get over the leadership credibility issue. Jeremy

Corbyn could the world on a stick, but if no one believes he can

deliver it then he will not be listened to and he has not done much

apart from a speech yesterday in which is claim to fame was getting

arrested, I don't see how that would work for him getting to Number Ten.

They are not making progress on it. Labour has rolled out a number of

policies which, taken individually, would have certain traction in

normal times, quite interesting ideas, this sense of unfairness, a

feeling that ordinary workers have not done well out of the recovery,

those who caused the crash have, 20 points, I went through some of them

earlier, putting aside they are not costed, we are assured they will be.

The problem I suggest is not the costing but the cut through? Every

election has a context which is determined by opinion polls, however

sceptical we are these days, and if one party is way ahead it is

difficult for the other party to appear relevant, because if people

assume they are not going to win, even some of its own MPs are saying,

we are not going to win this, so you can vote for us, it is very hard to

get attention and relevance. Where I think all the parties are bad with

their current leaders is framing arguments, so those policies you

have highlighted makes sense. The best leaders are brilliant framers

of an argument and neither Theresa Maynor Jeremy Corbyn R. They have

been campaigning, their manifestos are not out yet, both sides have

been telling us we have to wait for costings, but it has not stopped

them campaigning. Let's remind you of where they have been and what

they have been doing so far. Let's start with Jeremy Corbyn, his

first official visit was in the ultra-marginal Conservative seat of

Croydon Central where the MP Gavin Barwell has a lead of just 165. That

is not the only Conservative seat he has visited, along the way he popped

in on Bristol North West, a Conservative majority of nearly

5000. The Tory seat of Cardiff North, a lead of just over 2000,

Warrington South, just over 2700, and Crewe and Nantwich, Tory

majority of three and a half thousand. Yesterday he visited

Bethnal greed and Bob, a Labour lead of 20 4000. Theresa May kicked off

her campaign in Bolton, Labour majority of over 4000. On her way

round the UK she had a comfy stop in her own maidenhead seat, where she

is defending a majority of nearly 30,000, before travelling to other

Labour marginals including Dudley North, a Labour lead of 4000.

Bridgend, a lead of just under 2004 Labour, before becoming ambitious

and visiting shadow minister Richard Bergen's Leeds East seat, which he

won by over 12,500 votes. Yesterday she went north of the border to

Aberdeenshire, where amongst other places she visited the SNP seat of

West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine, where the Tories would have to gain

over 7000 votes to unseat the NP. What do you make of it all so far?

It is remarkable she is doing these visits in Scotland. Past but even

five years and the idea of a Tory Prime Minister going round Scotland

would be utterly counter-productive, and actually they are ambitious for

Scotland now under with Davidson, a prospect of multiple seats, and that

would be a real genuine shift in Scottish politics, the likes of

which we have not seen for 15 or 20 years. If she gets that, that helps

towards 100 seats, because if she wins ten in Scotland, it is

effectively 20, the SNP lose ten, she gains ten, she wants to do that

in the Midlands with Labour, and the North. To get the 100 majority,

other than Scotland, she has to win Labour seats, that is all that is

there. And clearly she has been told, it is obvious, that she has a

chance of doing so, otherwise you don't go to these parts of the

country in the first few days of the campaign. All logic points to her

being able to pull it off as well. The opinion polls, the state of the

Labour Party. The only qualification I have in this is that politics is

so wild and free Braille at the moment, it doesn't feel like

landslide to rain. That is true, it doesn't. It is early days, we

haven't yet had the manifestos, the campaign is yet to gather momentum.

It doesn't feel like landslide territory. I disagree, look at every

single poll, the Tory lead is 10% in Wales, you can see her picking up 20

seat there. Put this together, I am told by the way she is going into

traditional Labour heartland again tomorrow, the key is the Ukip vote.

That will implode... Crumble towards Tories? If she can hoover that up

and retain the Tory vote, she will have a majority of 150.

I cannot let you go without reminding you that it is Donald

Trump's 100 days. He's not making a lot of it now, this is what he said

last night. We are just beginning in our fight

to make America great again. Now, before we talk about my first

100 days, which has been very exciting and very productive,

let's rate the media's 100 days. Because, as you know,

they are a disgrace. There you go, still bashing the

media, that was at a rally in Virginia, the 100 days was last

night. He seems happier campaigning than running the country. You each

have 20 seconds to give me your board on the first 100 days.

Remarkable, he will not stop slagging off the media but America

first has not meant America first in terms of national policy, he has

reneges on what he said about Nato being obsolete. He is moving from

the old right to the centre because that is where you get things done,

he is a pragmatist, also is about's friend Nigel Parrott is no longer

welcome, we read this morning! Allegedly! He loves campaigning but

finds governing much more difficult. Who would have thought being

president of the United States was a difficult job?! He loves rallies but

being president and politics is a very difficult thing indeed. Thank

you, there we go, Mr Trump's 100 days, we will see what the next 100

brings. The Daily Politics is back

on BBC Two after the bank holiday on Tuesday at midday,

with all the latest And I'll be back here

on BBC One next Sunday Remember - if it's Sunday,

it's the Sunday Politics. The East End girl who became the

nation's favourite. We don't know what it is,

but she definitely has... Something. From stage to screen

and into our hearts. Ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha!

Ooh, in't she wonderful? If you're not careful, you'll end up

playing this sexy little blonde