Browse content similar to 05/11/2017. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Good morning, everyone,
and welcome to the Sunday Politics. | 0:00:38 | 0:00:40 | |
I'm Sarah Smith. | 0:00:40 | 0:00:42 | |
And this is your guide to everything
that's happening in the world | 0:00:42 | 0:00:45 | |
of politics this Sunday morning. | 0:00:45 | 0:00:46 | |
On today's show: | 0:00:46 | 0:00:49 | |
Theresa May's right-hand man
Damian Green has denied claims that | 0:00:49 | 0:00:51 | |
police found pornography
on a computer in his office in 2008. | 0:00:51 | 0:00:58 | |
He says the allegations by a former
police chief are "political smears." | 0:00:58 | 0:01:01 | |
With claims of sexual harassment
at Westminster growing by the day, | 0:01:01 | 0:01:03 | |
can either Theresa May
or Jeremy Corbyn do anything to get | 0:01:03 | 0:01:06 | |
to grips with a scandal
threatening to engulf | 0:01:06 | 0:01:08 | |
the entire political class? | 0:01:08 | 0:01:12 | |
We'll ask a minister and senior
member of the Shadow Cabinet. | 0:01:12 | 0:01:18 | |
And some on the left of politics
have been gathering to mark 100 | 0:01:18 | 0:01:24 | |
Later in the programme...
have been gathering to mark 100 | 0:01:24 | 0:01:25 | |
A special investigation into sexual
harassment at the Assembly. | 0:01:25 | 0:01:27 | |
This programme is told it happens
all the time and a blind eye | 0:01:27 | 0:01:31 | |
is turned to bad behaviour. | 0:01:31 | 0:01:35 | |
is turned to bad behaviour. | 0:01:35 | 0:01:37 | |
So there's plenty of
explosive political news | 0:01:45 | 0:01:47 | |
to get you in the mood
for bonfire night - | 0:01:47 | 0:01:49 | |
and with me as usual,
three journalists who know quite | 0:01:49 | 0:01:52 | |
a bit about parliamentary plots -
if rather less about | 0:01:52 | 0:01:54 | |
gunpowder and treason. | 0:01:54 | 0:01:55 | |
It's Tom Newton Dunn,
Isabel Oakeshott and Steve Richards. | 0:01:55 | 0:01:57 | |
So what are the big political
stories making the news this Sunday? | 0:01:57 | 0:02:01 | |
Well, the papers are brimming
with further allegations against MPs | 0:02:01 | 0:02:09 | |
in the sexual harassment scandal,
which according to one newspaper has | 0:02:09 | 0:02:11 | |
left Westminster frozen in fear. | 0:02:11 | 0:02:13 | |
First Secretary of State Damian
Green, already under | 0:02:13 | 0:02:15 | |
investigation over allegations -
which he strongly denies - | 0:02:15 | 0:02:17 | |
of propositioning a female activist,
is the subject of new claims that | 0:02:17 | 0:02:20 | |
police discovered pornography
on a computer in his Westminster | 0:02:20 | 0:02:22 | |
office in 2008. | 0:02:22 | 0:02:23 | |
Mr Green denies the allegation,
made by former senior | 0:02:23 | 0:02:26 | |
police officer Bob Quick,
saying it is "completely untrue," | 0:02:26 | 0:02:28 | |
and adding that he is the victim
of disreputable "political smears." | 0:02:28 | 0:02:36 | |
Michael Fallon, who resigned
as Defence Secretary this week | 0:02:36 | 0:02:38 | |
over his past behaviour,
is also subject to fresh claims | 0:02:38 | 0:02:41 | |
he lunged at a female journalist
in 2003 after a lunch. | 0:02:41 | 0:02:46 | |
Labour is facing questions
over its handling of sexual | 0:02:46 | 0:02:48 | |
misconduct allegations. | 0:02:48 | 0:02:53 | |
misconduct allegations. | 0:02:53 | 0:02:55 | |
This morning Shadow Cabinet minister
Dawn Butler refused to be drawn | 0:02:55 | 0:02:58 | |
on whether Jeremy Corbyn knew
about alleged misconduct by MP | 0:02:58 | 0:03:00 | |
Kelvin Hopkins when he was promoted
to the Shadow Cabinet. | 0:03:00 | 0:03:08 | |
And there is a reminder that normal
political life goes on, | 0:03:08 | 0:03:11 | |
with reports that the Cabinet has
agreed to put housing at the heart | 0:03:11 | 0:03:14 | |
of Philip Hammond's upcoming Budget. | 0:03:14 | 0:03:15 | |
Well, let's hear from
Home Secretary Amber Rudd now - | 0:03:15 | 0:03:18 | |
she was on the Andrew Marr Show
earlier talking about the claims | 0:03:18 | 0:03:21 | |
against her Cabinet colleague Damian
Green. | 0:03:21 | 0:03:23 | |
Absolutely not. I think it is
something that will take place in | 0:03:23 | 0:03:29 | |
terms of clearing out Westminster of
that sort of behaviour, and I think | 0:03:29 | 0:03:34 | |
that Westminster afterwards,
including the Government, will be | 0:03:34 | 0:03:37 | |
better for it. When we are confident
that men and women can work any | 0:03:37 | 0:03:45 | |
respectful environment and people on
the receiving end of abuse of power | 0:03:45 | 0:03:48 | |
can come forward. That will be a
positive thing. | 0:03:48 | 0:03:54 | |
Let's see what our panel make of
this fairly explosive week. Good | 0:03:54 | 0:03:58 | |
morning to all of you. Starting with
you, Steve. Not a party political | 0:03:58 | 0:04:05 | |
issue but the Tories are in
Government. How much harder for them | 0:04:05 | 0:04:09 | |
is it an Labour? Always harder when
you are in Government because it | 0:04:09 | 0:04:13 | |
makes governing almost impossible.
And the wider context is a Prime | 0:04:13 | 0:04:17 | |
Minister who lost her overall
majority a few months ago and | 0:04:17 | 0:04:20 | |
actually that is the context of
everything. When you are having to | 0:04:20 | 0:04:23 | |
deal with the scandal of such
unpredictability, where the | 0:04:23 | 0:04:26 | |
terms are so imprecise, it | 0:04:26 | 0:04:33 | |
terms are so imprecise, it is a
"lunge", a resignation issue, to use | 0:04:33 | 0:04:38 | |
that term, and nightmare. I don't
think it is fatal. Scandals rarely | 0:04:38 | 0:04:41 | |
bring down governments, but it makes
governing for Theresa May a form of | 0:04:41 | 0:04:48 | |
political health. Isabel Oakeshott,
Damian Green has denied all | 0:04:48 | 0:04:51 | |
allegations made against him, but
there are more this morning. He is | 0:04:51 | 0:04:54 | |
being investigated by the Cabinet
Office at the moment. If Theresa May | 0:04:54 | 0:04:59 | |
were to effectively lose her Deputy
Prime Minister, has serious without | 0:04:59 | 0:05:03 | |
the? I think very serious indeed. I
think it is very significant and | 0:05:03 | 0:05:08 | |
strange he was not defended in the
Home Secretary Amber Rudd in that | 0:05:08 | 0:05:11 | |
clip we saw today, she didn't say I
am certain he will survive, and I am | 0:05:11 | 0:05:15 | |
beginning to feel that Damian may
not survive this. We don't know | 0:05:15 | 0:05:20 | |
whether it is the last of the
allegations that may come out in | 0:05:20 | 0:05:23 | |
relation to him. It seems to me that
the allegations were previously of a | 0:05:23 | 0:05:27 | |
rather minor order, but this seems
to have escalated. And I think one | 0:05:27 | 0:05:33 | |
of the big problems for Theresa May,
and there are the many at the | 0:05:33 | 0:05:36 | |
moment, for months we have been
saying that this Government has no | 0:05:36 | 0:05:42 | |
bandwidth to do anything except
Brexit and right now she can't even | 0:05:42 | 0:05:46 | |
do Brexit. What is the point of it
all? It is important to make clear | 0:05:46 | 0:05:49 | |
not only that Damian Green denies
all of these allegations, but the | 0:05:49 | 0:05:53 | |
computer mentioned was in a shared
office so there is no reason it | 0:05:53 | 0:05:59 | |
would definitely be his
# No guarantee it would definitely | 0:05:59 | 0:06:04 | |
be his. But we have had two MPs on
television this morning, Anna | 0:06:04 | 0:06:15 | |
Soubry, saying he should stand down.
There is an awful lot going on here. | 0:06:15 | 0:06:20 | |
It is not just a pretty awful sexual
harassment scandal. There are also | 0:06:20 | 0:06:26 | |
without a doubt MPs, police
officers, going about settling | 0:06:26 | 0:06:30 | |
scores. For me I have to say for our
pretty discredited police officer | 0:06:30 | 0:06:35 | |
Bob Quick, to make accusations
against serving Cabinet minister, to | 0:06:35 | 0:06:39 | |
suggest he should go for extreme
pornography on computers he may or | 0:06:39 | 0:06:46 | |
may not have known, it may be
extremely distasteful but it is | 0:06:46 | 0:06:50 | |
alarming for democracy to have
ex-police officers like this coming | 0:06:50 | 0:06:52 | |
in and trying to play with
democracy. Some politicians are also | 0:06:52 | 0:06:56 | |
meeting claims, some for the right
reasons to get the allegations out | 0:06:56 | 0:06:59 | |
there and so on but others for their
own agendas and all of this puts the | 0:06:59 | 0:07:03 | |
Prime Minister in an unbelievably
hard situation. I agree with Steve | 0:07:03 | 0:07:07 | |
and Isabel, she desperately needs
two show leadership in all this, but | 0:07:07 | 0:07:10 | |
every way she could turn there are
incredible downfalls, people blaming | 0:07:10 | 0:07:13 | |
her for trying to get to the bottom
of all this. It is very people who | 0:07:13 | 0:07:18 | |
she is relying on for her
leadership, the very Tory MPs the | 0:07:18 | 0:07:22 | |
support she can't lose. It is not
just the Tory party and of course | 0:07:22 | 0:07:25 | |
Jeremy Corbyn will be making a
speech later today where this will | 0:07:25 | 0:07:29 | |
inevitably and there are accusations
about how the senior leadership in | 0:07:29 | 0:07:32 | |
the Labour Party have handled this.
What about that situation? Yes, but | 0:07:32 | 0:07:38 | |
the Government is much harder
because you are meant to be doing | 0:07:38 | 0:07:41 | |
10,000 other things at the same
time. This is about a deregulated | 0:07:41 | 0:07:44 | |
work environment. For all those who
say, I hate the way Britain is too | 0:07:44 | 0:07:48 | |
regulated, this is what happens in a
deregulated work environment. The | 0:07:48 | 0:07:51 | |
House of Commons has no HR or
whatever, MPs, advisors, so, MPs | 0:07:51 | 0:08:01 | |
actually don't have much power but
they do have power over who the | 0:08:01 | 0:08:03 | |
point and how to treat them. I think
this is the way forward in terms of | 0:08:03 | 0:08:08 | |
the practical outcome, but it is
across the political spectrum. But | 0:08:08 | 0:08:11 | |
it is unclear what it will be. Can
the party sort this out? I'm not | 0:08:11 | 0:08:16 | |
sure I entirely agree, Steve, you
cannot regulate all human | 0:08:16 | 0:08:20 | |
interaction and a lot of these
stories have been about interactions | 0:08:20 | 0:08:24 | |
between politicians and journalists
alike, who have gone out for lunch, | 0:08:24 | 0:08:29 | |
chosen to drink, presumably to
create an informal atmosphere, and | 0:08:29 | 0:08:34 | |
at what point is a step towards
somebody to say goodbye, a peck on | 0:08:34 | 0:08:38 | |
the cheek or whatever, a lunge? You
can't regulate that sort of thing. | 0:08:38 | 0:08:43 | |
Throughout the programme will come
back to some of these things and how | 0:08:43 | 0:08:48 | |
they might be regulated. | 0:08:48 | 0:08:50 | |
Now, the Home Secretary has
also today been talking | 0:08:50 | 0:08:52 | |
about what she calls the "moral
duty" of social media companies | 0:08:52 | 0:08:55 | |
to stop child sexual exploitation,
ahead of a meeting with her US | 0:08:55 | 0:08:58 | |
counterparts this week. | 0:08:58 | 0:08:59 | |
We're joined now by the Home Office
minister Sarah Newton - | 0:08:59 | 0:09:01 | |
she's in our Truro studio. | 0:09:01 | 0:09:04 | |
Thanks very much for coming in to
speak the first night. I want to | 0:09:04 | 0:09:07 | |
talk to you about the Government's
efforts to tackle child pornography, | 0:09:07 | 0:09:10 | |
but let's pick up on some of the
sexual harassment issues at | 0:09:10 | 0:09:13 | |
Westminster first. Two of your
parliamentary colleagues this | 0:09:13 | 0:09:17 | |
morning saying they think the first
Secretary of State Damian Green | 0:09:17 | 0:09:20 | |
should step down whilst being
investigated. Do you agree? Look, he | 0:09:20 | 0:09:27 | |
has vigorously denied these
accusations, and the Cabinet Office | 0:09:27 | 0:09:32 | |
is investigating these accusations,
so we do have processes for when | 0:09:32 | 0:09:38 | |
ministers have these accusations
made against them so they are | 0:09:38 | 0:09:40 | |
properly investigated. And that is
what is going on at the moment. Is | 0:09:40 | 0:09:45 | |
that process people can be confident
in? He is effectively being | 0:09:45 | 0:09:49 | |
investigated by Jeremy Heywood, one
of his colleagues. This is a tried | 0:09:49 | 0:09:55 | |
and tested process that has stood
the test of time, and it is | 0:09:55 | 0:10:00 | |
important... Has it? Surely what we
are learning is it has not stood the | 0:10:00 | 0:10:04 | |
test of time and that in fact
allegations like this have been | 0:10:04 | 0:10:06 | |
swept under the carpet and ignored
for years and years in Westminster, | 0:10:06 | 0:10:10 | |
exactly what we are learning right
now. I think you are conflating two | 0:10:10 | 0:10:15 | |
things they are, and what we really
do need to do is look at the whole | 0:10:15 | 0:10:18 | |
range of allegations people have
been making, and make sure | 0:10:18 | 0:10:23 | |
Parliament is a safe place for
people to work, a respectful | 0:10:23 | 0:10:27 | |
environment for people who have been
subjected to harassment or bullying | 0:10:27 | 0:10:32 | |
or inappropriate behaviour, so that
they feel confident to come forward | 0:10:32 | 0:10:34 | |
knowing they will be listened to,
that there will be an open and | 0:10:34 | 0:10:39 | |
transparent and fair to everyone
concerned process for getting to the | 0:10:39 | 0:10:41 | |
bottom of it, and that is exactly
what the Prime Minister and the | 0:10:41 | 0:10:46 | |
Leader of the Cows have set out,
Prime Minister's meeting with all | 0:10:46 | 0:10:51 | |
the leaders of the parties tomorrow
to set out a proper process so we | 0:10:51 | 0:10:56 | |
can modernise the work environment
at Westminster -- leader of the | 0:10:56 | 0:11:04 | |
House have set out. You think Damian
Green should remain in the Cabinet | 0:11:04 | 0:11:08 | |
well being investigated? That will
be down to Sir Jeremy Heywood. If he | 0:11:08 | 0:11:14 | |
thinks the misdemeanours have a
basis, that he should stand aside, | 0:11:14 | 0:11:18 | |
that will be the recommendation. I
will not second the inquiry on what | 0:11:18 | 0:11:23 | |
Sir Jeremy Heywood finds. You were
in the Whips' Office yourself for a | 0:11:23 | 0:11:28 | |
year. And much has been said this
week of the whips being in receipt | 0:11:28 | 0:11:32 | |
of a lot of information about bad
behaviour, and instead of reporting | 0:11:32 | 0:11:35 | |
it to authorities they were using it
as ammunition. Was that your | 0:11:35 | 0:11:39 | |
experience? Absolutely not. I was at
the Whips' Office up to 2015 and, | 0:11:39 | 0:11:46 | |
yes, I heard about the rumours of a
black spreadsheet, and I can | 0:11:46 | 0:11:49 | |
certainly say I never saw such a
thing. How I went about my business | 0:11:49 | 0:11:53 | |
as a whip is really twofold. It is
quite a technical job in many ways, | 0:11:53 | 0:11:58 | |
about of the Government through the
House, working with the House | 0:11:58 | 0:12:04 | |
authorities, the opposition. Also...
Did you ever hear rumours of these | 0:12:04 | 0:12:07 | |
people's bad behaviour? Sorry? Did
you ever hear rumours of MPs | 0:12:07 | 0:12:15 | |
misbehaving, sexual harassment,
allegations are that? If anybody had | 0:12:15 | 0:12:18 | |
brought a complaint to me about the
behaviour of one of the MPs who were | 0:12:18 | 0:12:23 | |
in my flock, I would take that
really seriously, but bull-mac, that | 0:12:23 | 0:12:27 | |
didn't happen. You said nobody
brought you a complaint. Did you | 0:12:27 | 0:12:31 | |
hear rumours? -- but no, that didn't
happen. About the members of my | 0:12:31 | 0:12:37 | |
flock? Absolutely not. Is that the
MPs you were specifically in charge | 0:12:37 | 0:12:41 | |
of? I did not have that experience
at all. Let's move on and talk about | 0:12:41 | 0:12:47 | |
the Home Secretary's trip to
Washington this week, where she will | 0:12:47 | 0:12:51 | |
urge tech companies to go further
and faster on online child abuse. We | 0:12:51 | 0:12:55 | |
have heard a lot from this
Government urging these companies to | 0:12:55 | 0:12:58 | |
do something. One specific ideas of
what they could do, do you have a | 0:12:58 | 0:13:02 | |
clear idea of what you are asking
from tech companies? Absolutely | 0:13:02 | 0:13:05 | |
right. As you know, this horrendous
crime of child sexual exploitation | 0:13:05 | 0:13:12 | |
and grooming is constantly evolving
as the opportunities for the | 0:13:12 | 0:13:17 | |
perpetrators arise. They are now
using live streaming, different | 0:13:17 | 0:13:21 | |
sorts of platforms, which are
largely controlled by the big | 0:13:21 | 0:13:25 | |
companies in America. What we really
want them to do is to step up and | 0:13:25 | 0:13:29 | |
use their huge expertise, used the
huge money they have got, to help | 0:13:29 | 0:13:35 | |
find technological solutions to read
their sites and rid the opportunity | 0:13:35 | 0:13:39 | |
of these paedophiles to be able to
groom young people. We need the | 0:13:39 | 0:13:42 | |
politicians in America to exert
pressure, as well as other | 0:13:42 | 0:13:49 | |
companies, because these are global
problems. We are not going to solve | 0:13:49 | 0:13:52 | |
this problem in the UK alone. We
have made a lot of progress, working | 0:13:52 | 0:13:56 | |
with Facebook and other companies as
well, but we really need to keep one | 0:13:56 | 0:14:00 | |
step ahead of the technology, one
step ahead of the perpetrators, who | 0:14:00 | 0:14:06 | |
are using these opportunities to
commit horrendous crimes. | 0:14:06 | 0:14:11 | |
It was back in 2014 Theresa May for
the Internet companies to do more in | 0:14:11 | 0:14:15 | |
terms of child abuse online and we
have not seen significant action, | 0:14:15 | 0:14:19 | |
and it does not appear these kind of
calls from the Government actually | 0:14:19 | 0:14:22 | |
make difference.
Well, at the moment we are seeing | 0:14:22 | 0:14:27 | |
the police being able to make about
400 arrests per month, about 500 | 0:14:27 | 0:14:32 | |
children being safeguarded. The
Government itself is investing a lot | 0:14:32 | 0:14:36 | |
of money in new technology like the
project Arachnid, and making sure | 0:14:36 | 0:14:42 | |
the police have the specialist
resources they need to go | 0:14:42 | 0:14:46 | |
undercover, and absolutely find
these perpetrators and bring them to | 0:14:46 | 0:14:48 | |
justice, but we do need to
constantly have the engagement and | 0:14:48 | 0:14:52 | |
support of the companies themselves
to invest in further technologies to | 0:14:52 | 0:14:56 | |
prevent this from happening. As you
say, we have made progress but we | 0:14:56 | 0:14:59 | |
need to see yet more. Sarah Newton,
thank you very much for speaking to | 0:14:59 | 0:15:04 | |
us today. | 0:15:04 | 0:15:06 | |
Michael Fallon's decision
to resign this week, | 0:15:06 | 0:15:08 | |
saying his past conduct with women
fell short of the standard expected | 0:15:08 | 0:15:13 | |
of the Armed Forces, led
to something of a minor reshuffle. | 0:15:13 | 0:15:15 | |
And the Prime Minister took
Westminster by surprise | 0:15:15 | 0:15:17 | |
when she announced his replacement,
former Chief Whip and relative | 0:15:17 | 0:15:20 | |
newcomer to the ministerial
ranks, Gavin Williamson. | 0:15:20 | 0:15:22 | |
Here he is speaking on the day
of his appointment. | 0:15:22 | 0:15:28 | |
of State for Defence,
and what we need to be doing | 0:15:28 | 0:15:31 | |
is continuing to focus
on countering Daesh, | 0:15:31 | 0:15:33 | |
making sure that our national
security is at the forefront | 0:15:33 | 0:15:36 | |
of everything that we do,
and we have some of the world's | 0:15:36 | 0:15:41 | |
to work with them. | 0:15:41 | 0:15:46 | |
to work with them. | 0:15:46 | 0:15:47 | |
Gavin Williamson, who you saw there,
arrives at the Ministry of Defence | 0:15:47 | 0:15:50 | |
at a challenging time
for UK defence. | 0:15:50 | 0:15:52 | |
The Government has promised
an above-inflation increase | 0:15:52 | 0:15:54 | |
in spending every year
but the Ministry of Defence | 0:15:54 | 0:15:56 | |
is already committed to finding
£20 billion of savings | 0:15:56 | 0:15:58 | |
over the next ten years. | 0:15:58 | 0:15:59 | |
The Cabinet Office is currently
conducting a security review | 0:15:59 | 0:16:01 | |
which will look at military
capabilities and funding up to 2022, | 0:16:01 | 0:16:04 | |
while there are continuing
reports of shortages | 0:16:04 | 0:16:06 | |
of manpower and equipment. | 0:16:06 | 0:16:10 | |
of manpower and equipment. | 0:16:10 | 0:16:10 | |
And if Labour were to win power,
questions persist over | 0:16:10 | 0:16:13 | |
what a Jeremy Corbyn premiership
would mean for defence budget | 0:16:13 | 0:16:15 | |
and the traditional cornerstones
of UK defence policy | 0:16:15 | 0:16:17 | |
like Trident and Nato. | 0:16:17 | 0:16:18 | |
Well we're joined now
by the Shadow Defence | 0:16:18 | 0:16:20 | |
secretary, Nia Griffith. | 0:16:20 | 0:16:24 | |
Well we're joined now
by the Shadow Defence | 0:16:24 | 0:16:25 | |
secretary, Nia Griffith. | 0:16:25 | 0:16:30 | |
secretary, Nia Griffith. | 0:16:30 | 0:16:31 | |
Let's talk about defence spending
first. Would Labour commit to the | 0:16:31 | 0:16:36 | |
same thing this Government has which
is an above inflation increase in | 0:16:36 | 0:16:39 | |
spending every year? We've been
absolutely clear about that. First | 0:16:39 | 0:16:44 | |
and foremost we'd meet our
commitment of spending at least 2% | 0:16:44 | 0:16:49 | |
of GDP on defence as is our Nato
commitment and we would match the | 0:16:49 | 0:16:55 | |
Government's year-on-year 0.5%
increase above inflation. This is | 0:16:55 | 0:16:58 | |
really important. Labour's always
had a good strong track record of | 0:16:58 | 0:17:02 | |
spending on defence. Jeremy Corbyn
seems to have a different view. | 0:17:02 | 0:17:05 | |
Speaking at a protest in 2010 he
said Labour wanted to fight all the | 0:17:05 | 0:17:10 | |
cuts except those in the Armed
Forces where we want to see a few | 0:17:10 | 0:17:14 | |
more cuts taking place. He doesn't
seem committed to defence spending? | 0:17:14 | 0:17:19 | |
In the manifesto for this year's
election, 2017, he and John | 0:17:19 | 0:17:24 | |
McDonnell have been absolutely clear
we support the exact words I've been | 0:17:24 | 0:17:27 | |
using now, at least 2% of the spend
of GDP spent on defence. Jeremy | 0:17:27 | 0:17:33 | |
Corbyn's changed his mind on that?
He's been very clear about that and | 0:17:33 | 0:17:37 | |
it was in our manifesto this year.
You criticised the Government on | 0:17:37 | 0:17:43 | |
whether they meet their 2%
commitment on defence. You saying | 0:17:43 | 0:17:48 | |
they were fiddling the figures
because they were including | 0:17:48 | 0:17:51 | |
pensions. You would strip that out
and snake sure there's 2% spending | 0:17:51 | 0:17:56 | |
on defence which doesn't include
pensions? Technically, the | 0:17:56 | 0:17:59 | |
Government would argue you are
allowed to include pensions by the | 0:17:59 | 0:18:02 | |
Nato rules. But we've been very
clear, really, when you're talking | 0:18:02 | 0:18:07 | |
about defence spending it should
mean defence. When you look at the | 0:18:07 | 0:18:12 | |
last year of the Labour Government
we spent 2.5% GDP on defence. We are | 0:18:12 | 0:18:17 | |
very much committed to looking at
what we need in our defence budget | 0:18:17 | 0:18:22 | |
and looking to the problems they
have now where they can't meet the | 0:18:22 | 0:18:26 | |
commitments they've made. You would
sprip pensions out of those figures. | 0:18:26 | 0:18:31 | |
In order to live up to these
commitments you have to find an | 0:18:31 | 0:18:36 | |
extra billion for the defence
budgets because we're not | 0:18:36 | 0:18:40 | |
calculating pensions anymore? John
McDonnell is well aware of what they | 0:18:40 | 0:18:44 | |
are doing. Putting in the conflict
resolution money which Gordon Brown | 0:18:44 | 0:18:49 | |
kept separate. He is well aware of
the figures and the difficulties. We | 0:18:49 | 0:18:53 | |
are certainly very committed to a
defence budget that really does make | 0:18:53 | 0:18:57 | |
a difference. I'm not clear whether
you're telling me it will be 2% 69 | 0:18:57 | 0:19:02 | |
spending, excluding pensions? We
want it to be 2% of GDP as in the | 0:19:02 | 0:19:08 | |
way Labour always calculate it had
up until 2010, not including | 0:19:08 | 0:19:12 | |
pensions. A significant increase in
military spending? We are talking | 0:19:12 | 0:19:17 | |
about making sure the spending we
need is there because, at the | 0:19:17 | 0:19:22 | |
current situation, we have with the
current Government, they are | 0:19:22 | 0:19:25 | |
overstretched. Even the very caution
National Audit Office says they are | 0:19:25 | 0:19:30 | |
at immense risk of not being able to
meet the expenditure commitment the | 0:19:30 | 0:19:35 | |
they have made. Others talk about a
black hole. You mentioned it that | 0:19:35 | 0:19:40 | |
£20 billion. There is a real issue
we have to address. To you know what | 0:19:40 | 0:19:48 | |
it will cost, how muchedingsal funds
will have to be found? We have to | 0:19:48 | 0:19:52 | |
rook at what are the needs at the
time as well as the facts we want to | 0:19:52 | 0:19:58 | |
make that 2% commitment not
including things which have just | 0:19:58 | 0:20:02 | |
been brushed in now by the
Conservative Government. Let's move | 0:20:02 | 0:20:05 | |
on to a different aspect of defence.
There is a treaty banning nuclear | 0:20:05 | 0:20:11 | |
weapons opened at the UN for
signatories. 122 countries have | 0:20:11 | 0:20:15 | |
already signed it. Would an incoming
Labour Government sign that treaty? | 0:20:15 | 0:20:20 | |
The important point here is there
was an Is inned opportunity for | 0:20:20 | 0:20:23 | |
there to be observers from the UK.
There should have been at that | 0:20:23 | 0:20:28 | |
treaty talks. That doesn't change
the calculation whether or not an | 0:20:28 | 0:20:34 | |
incoming Labour Government would
sign that treaty? We are committed | 0:20:34 | 0:20:40 | |
to a strong multi-lateral disarming
programme. That's what we've seen | 0:20:40 | 0:20:45 | |
missing. This is a multilateral
approach to try to get rid of | 0:20:45 | 0:20:49 | |
nuclear weapons. What you say you
want. Would a Labour Government sign | 0:20:49 | 0:20:54 | |
that treaty? You we have to look at
how you go about things. We need toe | 0:20:54 | 0:20:58 | |
somebody clear we want to
de-escalate tensions across the | 0:20:58 | 0:21:01 | |
world. Work with other nuclear
partners to help stop the | 0:21:01 | 0:21:06 | |
proliferation of nuclear weapons. We
want to work with those countries | 0:21:06 | 0:21:10 | |
who feel very strongly about the
treaty so we can work together. We | 0:21:10 | 0:21:16 | |
have to do that in a multilateral
framework. This is a multi-lateral | 0:21:16 | 0:21:22 | |
disarmament framework. Under the
auspice Is of the UN disto see how | 0:21:22 | 0:21:26 | |
else it could be organised. This is
a great opportunity for you, who | 0:21:26 | 0:21:30 | |
have been a lifelong campaigner for
disarmament.ment Labour Government | 0:21:30 | 0:21:35 | |
will be the first nuclear power to
do so, sign it and lead the way. We | 0:21:35 | 0:21:40 | |
need to use our position to be
responsible and call for responsible | 0:21:40 | 0:21:45 | |
multi-lateral disarmamentment there
was progress made on this in the | 0:21:45 | 0:21:49 | |
eighties and nineties with
considerable amount of are heads put | 0:21:49 | 0:21:51 | |
to one side and destroyed. We need
to get back on the front foot there. | 0:21:51 | 0:21:55 | |
I don't see any presence by the UK
Government at the moment on that | 0:21:55 | 0:21:59 | |
aagain da. It is not helpful for the
nukes leer nations to be separated | 0:21:59 | 0:22:04 | |
from the non-nuclear nation in the
these debates. That's why I don't | 0:22:04 | 0:22:09 | |
understand why you're not taking the
opportunity to say a Labour | 0:22:09 | 0:22:14 | |
Government would Take The Stand. We
should wok together and we should | 0:22:14 | 0:22:17 | |
use our position as a nuclear power
to work for a multilateral | 0:22:17 | 0:22:22 | |
disarmament programme. You were very
clear in your manifesto that the | 0:22:22 | 0:22:26 | |
Labour Party would keep Trident for
the meantime. Abs will yously. We | 0:22:26 | 0:22:30 | |
know throughout his life, Jeremy
Corbyn's long wanted to get rid of | 0:22:30 | 0:22:34 | |
it. He signed up to the manifesto
saying Trident would stay. Has he | 0:22:34 | 0:22:40 | |
changed his minds? The important
thing is that was a manifesto | 0:22:40 | 0:22:45 | |
Jeremy, John McDonnell's agreed to.
We stood on it in 2017 because that | 0:22:45 | 0:22:49 | |
is the Labour Party position.
Absolutely. I'm asking if the Labour | 0:22:49 | 0:22:54 | |
Leader really believes in that
position? He believes in democracy | 0:22:54 | 0:22:57 | |
in the party. That is the Labour
Party position. I don't see that | 0:22:57 | 0:23:01 | |
position changing at all. He has
said very clearly that he accepts | 0:23:01 | 0:23:05 | |
that is our Labour Party position.
And that is the manifesto we've | 0:23:05 | 0:23:09 | |
stood on and will continue to stand
on. I'll need to ask questions about | 0:23:09 | 0:23:13 | |
sexual harassment in Westminster. It
is as much as inissue for the Labour | 0:23:13 | 0:23:18 | |
Party as the Conservative. It was
not clear listening to Dawn Butler, | 0:23:18 | 0:23:22 | |
your colleague on The Andrew Marr
Show this morning, she was asked | 0:23:22 | 0:23:25 | |
whether or not the leadership knew
about allegations by Kelvin Hopkins. | 0:23:25 | 0:23:30 | |
Do you know? I absolutely do not
know at this moment in time. That's | 0:23:30 | 0:23:34 | |
why there has to be an
investigation. It is extremely | 0:23:34 | 0:23:36 | |
important to find out what the
allegations were, exactly what | 0:23:36 | 0:23:41 | |
happened, who was told and who told
what to whom. Then we will be in a | 0:23:41 | 0:23:46 | |
position to see what the situation
is. In the meantime, Kelvin Hopkins | 0:23:46 | 0:23:51 | |
has been suspended which is the
cricket thing to do. Rosie Winterton | 0:23:51 | 0:23:58 | |
has been outspoken about what she
let the leadership know. If it is | 0:23:58 | 0:24:02 | |
the case the leadership did know
about these allegations should he | 0:24:02 | 0:24:06 | |
have been put into the Shadow
Cabinet? The real question is who | 0:24:06 | 0:24:10 | |
did know what when. But what I'm
asking you is... I am anot going to | 0:24:10 | 0:24:16 | |
speculate whether there was an if or
whatever. We need to know how that | 0:24:16 | 0:24:21 | |
information was transmitted. Was it
put in writing. What it made clear, | 0:24:21 | 0:24:24 | |
who was told what, when. Until we
have a full investigation it would | 0:24:24 | 0:24:28 | |
be inappropriate to comment. What is
absolute lie clear, we need to get | 0:24:28 | 0:24:32 | |
this right for the future. We must
have proper procedures so we deal | 0:24:32 | 0:24:36 | |
with incidents as and when they
occur. And we deal with them | 0:24:36 | 0:24:41 | |
prepperly in a way which gets to the
bottom of the issue and deals with | 0:24:41 | 0:24:45 | |
it properly. Why should anyone have
confidence the Labour Party will | 0:24:45 | 0:24:49 | |
treat issues that seriously when,
firstly there's a question whether | 0:24:49 | 0:24:54 | |
they knew about Kelvin hop kips and
others have been dissuaded from | 0:24:54 | 0:24:58 | |
making complaints. Knots just Bex
Bailey. Monica Lennon said when she | 0:24:58 | 0:25:04 | |
was harassed at a party senior
figures in the Labour Party told her | 0:25:04 | 0:25:08 | |
it was her own fault. It seems as if
there hasn't been a culture within | 0:25:08 | 0:25:15 | |
Labour to make a complaint. That's
why we're having a thorough review | 0:25:15 | 0:25:20 | |
of procedures. We brought in new
procedures in July. We need to | 0:25:20 | 0:25:25 | |
ensure there's a proper helpline
available. We are appointing an | 0:25:25 | 0:25:30 | |
independent organisation which will
deal with allegations first-hand so | 0:25:30 | 0:25:33 | |
nobody has to go to somebody they
think might know other people, be | 0:25:33 | 0:25:36 | |
friends with other people. They can
go somewhere completely confidential | 0:25:36 | 0:25:42 | |
and private. These are often things
you can't want to tell your cross | 0:25:42 | 0:25:46 | |
friends about. We will appoint that
organisation and make sure people | 0:25:46 | 0:25:50 | |
can go there and access to it is
made widely known. It is very, very | 0:25:50 | 0:25:55 | |
important when people come into a
job, they know if anything does | 0:25:55 | 0:25:58 | |
happen, they will be able to
complain. Whether they are ordinary | 0:25:58 | 0:26:02 | |
party members or working in
Westminster. Thank you for talking | 0:26:02 | 0:26:08 | |
to us | 0:26:08 | 0:26:09 | |
For Thank you for talking to us some | 0:26:09 | 0:26:11 | |
on the left of politics, | 0:26:11 | 0:26:12 | |
this weekend wasn't just a chance | 0:26:12 | 0:26:14 | |
to mark the anniversary
of the failed gunpowder | 0:26:14 | 0:26:16 | |
plot here in Britain,
but also events in Russia 100 years | 0:26:16 | 0:26:19 | |
ago, when Bolshevik revolutionaries
led by Lenin seized power | 0:26:19 | 0:26:21 | |
and ushered in seven
decades of Communist rule. | 0:26:21 | 0:26:23 | |
For critics, that's something
to regret, not celebrate. | 0:26:23 | 0:26:25 | |
Elizabeth Glinka went to one event
in London to find out more. | 0:26:25 | 0:26:27 | |
The 7th November 1917. | 0:26:31 | 0:26:34 | |
Red Guards under the leadership
of Vladimir Lenin begin to occupy | 0:26:34 | 0:26:37 | |
Government buildings in Petrograd. | 0:26:37 | 0:26:42 | |
This uprising, known
popularly as Red October | 0:26:42 | 0:26:45 | |
because of the difference
in the Gregorian calendar, | 0:26:45 | 0:26:47 | |
was, in fact, a coup. | 0:26:47 | 0:26:51 | |
The winds of socialist change had
been blowing for some time. | 0:26:51 | 0:26:54 | |
The Tsars had resisted reform
and millions toiled in a state | 0:26:54 | 0:27:00 | |
of almost medieval surfdom. | 0:27:00 | 0:27:02 | |
Then war. | 0:27:02 | 0:27:05 | |
Nearly two million
Russians would die. | 0:27:05 | 0:27:10 | |
The revolution had really begun nine
months earlier in February 1917. | 0:27:10 | 0:27:15 | |
The world's first socialist
republic was declared. | 0:27:15 | 0:27:22 | |
October, well that
was the Bolsheviks | 0:27:22 | 0:27:24 | |
asserting their authority. | 0:27:24 | 0:27:29 | |
A hundred years on, as this
event at the TUC shows, | 0:27:30 | 0:27:33 | |
there's still plenty of people
who want to remember and even | 0:27:33 | 0:27:37 | |
celebrate those momentous events. | 0:27:37 | 0:27:40 | |
Mainly as an event in history, | 0:27:40 | 0:27:43 | |
this is an example of historical
development in action, | 0:27:43 | 0:27:46 | |
the ability of people to club
together and be able to affect | 0:27:46 | 0:27:49 | |
the discourse of history. | 0:27:49 | 0:27:51 | |
It was people's first attempt at
trying to build socialism. | 0:27:51 | 0:27:53 | |
Although there were many terrible
things that happened, | 0:27:53 | 0:27:56 | |
I think we have to try
and draw from experience. | 0:27:56 | 0:27:59 | |
Jeremy Corbyn's close friend
and adviser, Andrew Murray, | 0:27:59 | 0:28:01 | |
was chairing the opening session. | 0:28:01 | 0:28:04 | |
He didn't want to talk to us
but we did manage to speak | 0:28:04 | 0:28:08 | |
to the daughter of one of the most
famous Communists of all time. | 0:28:08 | 0:28:14 | |
TRANSLATION: It's an historic moment | 0:28:14 | 0:28:16 | |
which opened up possibilities
for further changes | 0:28:16 | 0:28:19 | |
and allowed other people
to strive for a different world. | 0:28:19 | 0:28:22 | |
A world, which it seems,
some are still keen to push for. | 0:28:22 | 0:28:25 | |
We're growing, so there is obviously
a positive reflection. | 0:28:25 | 0:28:28 | |
There is a lot of negative
propaganda that comes | 0:28:28 | 0:28:30 | |
from the Cold War period. | 0:28:30 | 0:28:32 | |
It is harder to talk
to older people maybe. | 0:28:32 | 0:28:34 | |
But younger people
are quite receptive. | 0:28:34 | 0:28:36 | |
The events and discussions taking
place here today cover a whole range | 0:28:36 | 0:28:39 | |
of topics from women's
rights to the Third World | 0:28:39 | 0:28:42 | |
and the impact on British socialism. | 0:28:42 | 0:28:45 | |
But there's much less discussion
of the Russian Civil War, | 0:28:45 | 0:28:48 | |
the purges and the political
repression that would come later. | 0:28:48 | 0:28:52 | |
We wanted to have this conference | 0:28:52 | 0:28:55 | |
because we wanted to show it
in a positive light. | 0:28:55 | 0:28:58 | |
Whatever one's view of what happened
to the Soviet Union subsequently | 0:28:58 | 0:29:01 | |
the fact is it is important
to understand the process | 0:29:01 | 0:29:05 | |
of revolutionary change
for its own sake. | 0:29:05 | 0:29:09 | |
Red October would usher
in 70 years of communism. | 0:29:10 | 0:29:14 | |
The proletarite would rise,
find respect and security. | 0:29:14 | 0:29:17 | |
But the suppression of the peoples
of Eastern Europe, the forced labour | 0:29:17 | 0:29:20 | |
camps and the murder of hundreds
of thousands, if not millions | 0:29:20 | 0:29:25 | |
of people, make it difficult
for many to see that revolution | 0:29:25 | 0:29:28 | |
as something to celebrate. | 0:29:28 | 0:29:32 | |
That was Elizabeth Glinka reporting. | 0:29:34 | 0:29:36 | |
So is the centenary
of the Russian Revolution a cause | 0:29:36 | 0:29:38 | |
for celebration, or regret? | 0:29:38 | 0:29:39 | |
Well, to discuss this I'm
joined by former Labour | 0:29:39 | 0:29:41 | |
and Respect MP George Galloway,
and the journalist Peter Hitchens. | 0:29:41 | 0:29:47 | |
Good morning. Let me start with you
George Galloway. Is the October | 0:29:47 | 0:29:52 | |
revolution a cause for celebration?
With the, if not for the October | 0:29:52 | 0:29:57 | |
revolution, we'd been conducting
this interview in German. Though the | 0:29:57 | 0:30:00 | |
truth is this interview wouldn't be
taking place and we probably | 0:30:00 | 0:30:04 | |
wouldn't be alive for a variety of
reasons. The Soviet Union broke the | 0:30:04 | 0:30:11 | |
back of Hitler, as Mr Churchill
often owe pined in Parliament and | 0:30:11 | 0:30:15 | |
elsewhere. If not for the Soviet
Union, Hitler would have ruled. And | 0:30:15 | 0:30:22 | |
his successorsness, perhaps until
now, from Vladivostok all the way to | 0:30:22 | 0:30:28 | |
Portugal. You say we wouldn't be
able to have this discussion. In the | 0:30:28 | 0:30:32 | |
former Soviet Union we couldn't have
this office either? That's also | 0:30:32 | 0:30:35 | |
true. But even the... George will be
able to say, that of course. Even | 0:30:35 | 0:30:42 | |
the sun has spots on its face as
they used to say in the Soviet | 0:30:42 | 0:30:46 | |
Union. There is no doubt tremendous
abrasions, big crimes, a lot of | 0:30:46 | 0:30:56 | |
suffering but, if not for the
transformation, then the Soviet | 0:30:56 | 0:31:05 | |
Union, Russia's GDP increased from
1930 to 190 and the Nazi occupation. | 0:31:05 | 0:31:12 | |
And the strength that defeated
Hitlerism would not have been there. | 0:31:12 | 0:31:20 | |
Peter Hitchens,
Hitlerism would not have been there. | 0:31:20 | 0:31:20 | |
Peter Hitchens, does
Hitlerism would not have been there. | 0:31:20 | 0:31:20 | |
Peter Hitchens, does it
Hitlerism would not have been there. | 0:31:20 | 0:31:21 | |
Peter Hitchens, does it offend
Hitlerism would not have been there. | 0:31:21 | 0:31:22 | |
Peter Hitchens, does it offend you
Hitlerism would not have been there. | 0:31:22 | 0:31:22 | |
Peter Hitchens, does it offend you
there are people celebrating 100 | 0:31:22 | 0:31:23 | |
years since the Russian Revolution?
Offend? No, but in the Soviet Union, | 0:31:23 | 0:31:28 | |
in which I lived, you would not have
been able to say it was set up by a | 0:31:28 | 0:31:33 | |
cynical bitch, almost bloodless, but
engineered by the German Imperial | 0:31:33 | 0:31:36 | |
Government using -- a cynical
putsch, almost bloodless. That this | 0:31:36 | 0:31:53 | |
was the inauguration of an immensely
long period of repression, | 0:31:53 | 0:31:59 | |
brutality, secret police,
concentration camps and lies, which | 0:31:59 | 0:32:02 | |
I am likely to have seen come to an
end in my lifetime, and I cannot see | 0:32:02 | 0:32:06 | |
why anybody looking at that
disastrous country where so much | 0:32:06 | 0:32:10 | |
misery was needlessly imposed on so
many people for so long could | 0:32:10 | 0:32:12 | |
possibly celebrate the beginning of
it, which was completely avoidable, | 0:32:12 | 0:32:16 | |
and as I say was truly the result of
the cynical foreign policy and | 0:32:16 | 0:32:22 | |
intelligence operations of the
Imperial German Government is trying | 0:32:22 | 0:32:23 | |
to save it skin... But everyone
including George Galloway | 0:32:23 | 0:32:28 | |
acknowledges the tyranny and terror
that followed. He doesn't. He gives | 0:32:28 | 0:32:33 | |
statistics about GDP but fails to
mention the people murdered in | 0:32:33 | 0:32:36 | |
labour | 0:32:36 | 0:32:42 | |
camp... He was of course formerly a
Trotskyite and sung the praises of | 0:32:42 | 0:32:49 | |
Lenin, which I have not done and
neither have I done today. I have | 0:32:49 | 0:32:53 | |
never been a Communist, unlike Peter
Hitchens, but I do acknowledge and | 0:32:53 | 0:32:57 | |
celebrate that an entirely different
world opened up as a result of the | 0:32:57 | 0:33:01 | |
events in October 19 17. China, you
have just seen their party congress, | 0:33:01 | 0:33:06 | |
decorated with the iconography of
the Bolshevik Revolution, and China | 0:33:06 | 0:33:11 | |
is the most powerful, or soon will
be the most powerful country on the | 0:33:11 | 0:33:14 | |
earth. With one of the most
repressive government? I don't think | 0:33:14 | 0:33:19 | |
that is true. There is repression in
China, but... Enormous repression in | 0:33:19 | 0:33:24 | |
China! How can you possibly argue
there is an? China has taken more | 0:33:24 | 0:33:29 | |
people out of poverty in the last 30
years than any country, resume, | 0:33:29 | 0:33:34 | |
system, ever has -- how can you
possibly argue there is not? All | 0:33:34 | 0:33:39 | |
despots always argue, trying to
distract your attention from the | 0:33:39 | 0:33:42 | |
mountains of skulls behind them,
their supposed economic success, | 0:33:42 | 0:33:46 | |
which generally does not turn out to
be as great as claimed. The Soviet | 0:33:46 | 0:33:49 | |
Union was an enormous pile of rust
by the time I lived there and was a | 0:33:49 | 0:33:54 | |
complete catastrophe. Yes, that is
why it fell down. But we are talking | 0:33:54 | 0:33:59 | |
about the Revolution 100 years ago.
Is it possible to separate the two | 0:33:59 | 0:34:04 | |
events? A popular overthrowing of a
government is perhaps different from | 0:34:04 | 0:34:07 | |
the tyranny and terror that
followed. It was not a popular | 0:34:07 | 0:34:12 | |
overthrow. You sure this Eisenstein
propaganda as if it were fact. What | 0:34:12 | 0:34:17 | |
we see was a film made afterwards.
What actually happened was a putsch | 0:34:17 | 0:34:22 | |
in the middle of the night in which
hardly anybody... Nobody has even | 0:34:22 | 0:34:30 | |
mentioned... That German connection,
a rather more important... Nobody | 0:34:30 | 0:34:37 | |
has even mentioned during this year
until now that there was a Russian | 0:34:37 | 0:34:40 | |
Revolution. There were two. The
first one was a genuine uprising, | 0:34:40 | 0:34:46 | |
overthrowing the old regime, and I
think we can all be glad of it. The | 0:34:46 | 0:34:49 | |
second one was a cynical for --
foreign financed putsch and it does | 0:34:49 | 0:34:56 | |
not deserve to be spoken out. Is
that true, and Menshevik revolution | 0:34:56 | 0:34:59 | |
would have done better than a
Bolshevik one? It is not my business | 0:34:59 | 0:35:04 | |
and entirely counterfactual fiction,
if I may... Unlike how you open this | 0:35:04 | 0:35:10 | |
discussion. That is the most
important thing. If not for the | 0:35:10 | 0:35:14 | |
Soviet Union, we wouldn't be here.
Hetmyer might still, and most of the | 0:35:14 | 0:35:22 | |
world, with its allies -- Adolph
Hitler might have won and they make, | 0:35:22 | 0:35:27 | |
and most of the world... The effect
of Bolshevism and coming is on | 0:35:27 | 0:35:32 | |
Europe was colossal. Let's bring it
all a little bit more up-to-date. | 0:35:32 | 0:35:35 | |
You were saying earlier you have
never been a Leninist, although | 0:35:35 | 0:35:40 | |
Peter Hitchens confesses he was at
one time. Absolutely was a | 0:35:40 | 0:35:47 | |
Trotskyist, and now nor the complete
folly of that particular political | 0:35:47 | 0:35:53 | |
disposition. John McDonnell in the
Labour Party openly says he is a | 0:35:53 | 0:35:58 | |
Trotskyist, a Leninist, is that a
problem for the Labour Party? I | 0:35:58 | 0:36:03 | |
would have thought, arts would be
more respected now than he has been | 0:36:03 | 0:36:06 | |
for quite some time as capitalism is
collapsing around our ears. From | 0:36:06 | 0:36:12 | |
2008 the Economist itself, the bible
of capitalism, began to resurrect | 0:36:12 | 0:36:17 | |
Marxist economics and analysis, so I
really don't think it is. Jeremy | 0:36:17 | 0:36:22 | |
Corbyn is not a Marxist. It only
took them four years, 54... It is | 0:36:22 | 0:36:32 | |
not that. I think we are moving into
an era where Governments like the | 0:36:32 | 0:36:40 | |
Chinese Government are making plans,
and are succeeding in implementing | 0:36:40 | 0:36:43 | |
them, and thus transforming their
position. China in 1949, and I don't | 0:36:43 | 0:36:50 | |
need to tell you, was just about the
most backward place you could | 0:36:50 | 0:36:52 | |
possibly imagine. And from 1949 to
now it has sold transforms that it | 0:36:52 | 0:36:59 | |
is the world's biggest economy... We
are in danger of getting sidetracked | 0:36:59 | 0:37:08 | |
by China here. I have to put this
point in. If China was backward in | 0:37:08 | 0:37:12 | |
1949 it was far more backward by the
time Mao Zedong finished his great | 0:37:12 | 0:37:16 | |
leap forward and starved millions of
people to death in the period of | 0:37:16 | 0:37:20 | |
economic lunacy. You just don't
notice... What George was saying | 0:37:20 | 0:37:26 | |
they are, and a sense certainly
amongst younger voters in this | 0:37:26 | 0:37:29 | |
country and others, where they are
turning against capitalism, they | 0:37:29 | 0:37:32 | |
don't think it has worked or
delivered for them, that this kind | 0:37:32 | 0:37:36 | |
of Marxist Leninist philosophy is
becoming more popular? Let's hope | 0:37:36 | 0:37:39 | |
not. The fact the current system is
failing does not seem to recommend | 0:37:39 | 0:37:43 | |
the Soviet system, which is
demonstrably a failure, and even its | 0:37:43 | 0:37:49 | |
own leaders admitted it failed and
that is why they tried to reform it | 0:37:49 | 0:37:52 | |
in the period I was there and why it
collapsed. Whatever you might want | 0:37:52 | 0:37:55 | |
to conclude from examining our
position, the Soviet alternative is | 0:37:55 | 0:37:58 | |
not the thing you want the dues.
This was a long period of disaster, | 0:37:58 | 0:38:02 | |
and I remember at the end of it
watching in Moscow said a film which | 0:38:02 | 0:38:06 | |
has never been shown here, and the
title means approximately we can't | 0:38:06 | 0:38:12 | |
go on living like this, and for the
first time, the politburo told the | 0:38:12 | 0:38:18 | |
truth about what life was like in
the dreadful place and everyone in | 0:38:18 | 0:38:21 | |
that cinema was weeping because
finally they saw the truth being | 0:38:21 | 0:38:24 | |
told about the dreadful
anti-civilisation in which they had | 0:38:24 | 0:38:26 | |
been taught to live for so long. The
idea we should celebrate it revive | 0:38:26 | 0:38:30 | |
it seems to me to be verging on the
obscene. George, one interesting | 0:38:30 | 0:38:35 | |
question about this of course,
whilst there are events going on in | 0:38:35 | 0:38:40 | |
London and across the UK to mark
this centenary, it is not being | 0:38:40 | 0:38:43 | |
celebrated in Russia. I was in
Russia a couple of weeks ago. There | 0:38:43 | 0:38:46 | |
is a big debate about whether it
ought to be, and many people are | 0:38:46 | 0:38:51 | |
celebrating it... Vladimir Putin is
not. He would want to ignore it. But | 0:38:51 | 0:38:55 | |
the Communist Party is the second
biggest party in Russia. And it is | 0:38:55 | 0:39:00 | |
the ruling party in China, which,
with respect, is not a separate | 0:39:00 | 0:39:06 | |
thing, because China is continuing
the Russian Revolution and doing | 0:39:06 | 0:39:08 | |
rather better at it than the
Russians did, but there are many | 0:39:08 | 0:39:14 | |
people, particularly older, that is
true, who think that the era of the | 0:39:14 | 0:39:17 | |
Soviet Union was better than the
very cold period of capitalism that | 0:39:17 | 0:39:23 | |
succeeded it. So half the world
followed for a time the red flag, | 0:39:23 | 0:39:30 | |
the red banner of Leninism. No one
will do so again. Leninism of the | 0:39:30 | 0:39:38 | |
kind that Peter used to proselytise
is certainly not coming back, but | 0:39:38 | 0:39:42 | |
Marxism is going to live on. Let's
hope not. Thank you both, gentlemen, | 0:39:42 | 0:39:47 | |
for coming on to speak about that. | 0:39:47 | 0:39:49 | |
It's coming up to 11.40am. | 0:39:49 | 0:39:50 | |
You're watching the Sunday Politics. | 0:39:50 | 0:39:51 | |
Coming up on the programme: | 0:39:51 | 0:39:55 | |
We've taken the moodbox to where
else but bonfire night celebrations. | 0:39:55 | 0:39:58 | |
We've taken the moodbox to where
else but bonfire night celebrations? | 0:39:58 | 0:40:00 | |
It wasn't just Westminster
that had the fireworks this week. | 0:40:00 | 0:40:03 | |
We're asking people in Guildford
in Surrey, | 0:40:03 | 0:40:05 | |
does Theresa May have control
of her Government and her party? | 0:40:05 | 0:40:05 | |
Hello and welcome to
the Sunday Politics Wales. | 0:40:13 | 0:40:14 | |
In a few minutes, this programme
is told sexual harassment of women | 0:40:14 | 0:40:17 | |
in the Assembly goes
on all the time, and what does | 0:40:17 | 0:40:21 | |
the Welsh Government
want from Philip Hammond | 0:40:21 | 0:40:23 | |
when he presents his budget? | 0:40:23 | 0:40:28 | |
when he presents his budget? | 0:40:28 | 0:40:32 | |
I've been speaking with female
politicians past and present about | 0:40:32 | 0:40:37 | |
how women are treated in Cardiff Bay
and a very clear picture emerged. | 0:40:37 | 0:40:40 | |
It's just as bad as Westminster, it
just doesn't get the same coverage. | 0:40:40 | 0:40:47 | |
It's the story which has dominated
British politics for over a week, | 0:40:47 | 0:40:58 | |
politicians from all parties have
been called out on allegations of | 0:40:58 | 0:41:03 | |
sexual harassment and as more and
more cases come forward, time and | 0:41:03 | 0:41:06 | |
again, the question is asked, is
this just the tip of the iceberg. | 0:41:06 | 0:41:14 | |
But one question which isn't
really being asked is - | 0:41:14 | 0:41:16 | |
to what extent is that kind
of behaviour going on here | 0:41:16 | 0:41:19 | |
at the National Assembly? | 0:41:19 | 0:41:20 | |
The party leaders in Wales tell us
they'll be looking into issue. | 0:41:20 | 0:41:23 | |
The body responsible for staff
here says its revised its guidance | 0:41:23 | 0:41:26 | |
and its procedures but I've spoken
to over half a dozen women, | 0:41:26 | 0:41:28 | |
current AMs, former AMs,
researchers and officials | 0:41:28 | 0:41:30 | |
and they all tell me a similar story
which is that inappropriate | 0:41:30 | 0:41:33 | |
behaviour towards women -
and I quote - | 0:41:33 | 0:41:35 | |
"goes on all the time
at the Assembly." | 0:41:35 | 0:41:40 | |
One former Assembly Member told me
the problem is this place is so much | 0:41:40 | 0:41:45 | |
smaller than Westminster. | 0:41:45 | 0:41:47 | |
She said, when you see somebody
acting inappropriately, | 0:41:47 | 0:41:50 | |
you're more likely to know them,
to be friends with them, | 0:41:50 | 0:41:53 | |
that they tolerated things
they shouldn't and turned a blind | 0:41:53 | 0:41:55 | |
eye but she said there just
weren't the procedures | 0:41:55 | 0:41:57 | |
in place to deal with it. | 0:41:57 | 0:42:00 | |
Another former Assembly Member
told me of the story of a female | 0:42:00 | 0:42:03 | |
researcher waking up to find a male
Assembly Member undressing her. | 0:42:03 | 0:42:06 | |
Another occasion where she had
to physically step in to stop | 0:42:06 | 0:42:09 | |
a colleague from harassing
another female researcher. | 0:42:09 | 0:42:11 | |
The head of a body which supports
women in the workplace said it's | 0:42:11 | 0:42:16 | |
a problem for the Assembly
as well as councils across Wales. | 0:42:16 | 0:42:20 | |
There's something I said about power
and public exposure that changes | 0:42:20 | 0:42:26 | |
people's behaviour or not changes
it, but enables people to feel | 0:42:26 | 0:42:28 | |
a little bit more cavalier
about behaving in a way | 0:42:28 | 0:42:35 | |
that they wouldn't dare to do in
front of their friends and family. | 0:42:35 | 0:42:38 | |
And I would be amazed
if there wasn't a woman working | 0:42:38 | 0:42:41 | |
in Welsh public life who didn't
agree or didn't have a story | 0:42:41 | 0:42:47 | |
of their own to tell. | 0:42:47 | 0:42:49 | |
On a scale no doubt
from the relatively minor, | 0:42:49 | 0:42:53 | |
if you like, to much more serious
accusations, and I've no doubt | 0:42:53 | 0:42:56 | |
that those will come out over
the next few weeks and months. | 0:42:56 | 0:43:00 | |
So what are the parties doing? | 0:43:00 | 0:43:02 | |
Labour told us that this week,
they've written to the constituency | 0:43:02 | 0:43:05 | |
secretary and women's officers
with specific guidance | 0:43:05 | 0:43:08 | |
about reporting complaints
of sexual harassment, | 0:43:08 | 0:43:11 | |
including a copy of the procedure. | 0:43:11 | 0:43:13 | |
The Conservatives said
they were actively working | 0:43:13 | 0:43:17 | |
with colleagues across the party
to ensure that all appropriate | 0:43:17 | 0:43:21 | |
safeguards are in place to protect
staff from harassment | 0:43:21 | 0:43:23 | |
in all its forms. | 0:43:23 | 0:43:25 | |
The Lib Dems say there are clear
guidance on how to make a complaint | 0:43:25 | 0:43:30 | |
and in cases where the complainant
doesn't wish to disclose | 0:43:30 | 0:43:33 | |
their identity, the pastoral
care officer can act | 0:43:33 | 0:43:35 | |
as a de facto complainant. | 0:43:35 | 0:43:36 | |
Ukip Wales say it's reviewing
safeguarding procedures | 0:43:36 | 0:43:39 | |
within the party to ensure
the protection of all | 0:43:39 | 0:43:43 | |
who work with them. | 0:43:43 | 0:43:44 | |
Plaid Cymru said they had recently
put new infrastructure in place to | 0:43:44 | 0:43:47 | |
deal with complaints more quickly. | 0:43:47 | 0:43:50 | |
"We are also reviewing our internal
protocols and considering how | 0:43:50 | 0:43:54 | |
we can strengthen them." | 0:43:54 | 0:43:55 | |
But there is an indication
of the problem. | 0:43:55 | 0:43:57 | |
Plaid are dealing with several
accusations of bullying behaviour | 0:43:57 | 0:44:01 | |
by one of its elected members. | 0:44:01 | 0:44:03 | |
But eight months after saying
they were going to deal | 0:44:03 | 0:44:07 | |
with the complaint, it's
still nowhere near being concluded. | 0:44:07 | 0:44:09 | |
And two of the women who have made
the complaint told us | 0:44:09 | 0:44:12 | |
they are deeply unhappy
with the process, not least | 0:44:12 | 0:44:14 | |
about because on Tuesday,
they got this e-mail | 0:44:14 | 0:44:19 | |
from the party's chief executive
telling them part of the reason | 0:44:19 | 0:44:21 | |
it was taking so long
was because of the summer break | 0:44:21 | 0:44:24 | |
and the fact that the party had
to change its standing orders | 0:44:24 | 0:44:27 | |
to deal with the complaints. | 0:44:27 | 0:44:29 | |
It's been called a young democracy
and has been lauded for its family | 0:44:29 | 0:44:32 | |
friendly hours and having a greater
proportion of women among | 0:44:32 | 0:44:35 | |
its members than Westminster
but it's clear that Cardiff Bay | 0:44:35 | 0:44:38 | |
is far from immune
to the inappropriate | 0:44:38 | 0:44:39 | |
behaviour which has had
so much attention elsewhere. | 0:44:39 | 0:44:46 | |
Well, that's the situation. | 0:44:46 | 0:44:47 | |
But why and how does it
happen in Cardiff Bay? | 0:44:47 | 0:44:51 | |
Well, Cathy Owens has worked
at the very highest level | 0:44:51 | 0:44:54 | |
as a special advisor
to Rhodri Morgan and works | 0:44:54 | 0:44:56 | |
closely with AMs and
ministers as a lobbyist. | 0:44:56 | 0:45:05 | |
Well, I'm pleased that we're
actually talking about it now. | 0:45:05 | 0:45:08 | |
We have been talking about this
for a number of years. | 0:45:08 | 0:45:12 | |
We've made it clear for a number
of years now that it's been | 0:45:12 | 0:45:18 | |
prevalent here in Cardiff Bay. | 0:45:18 | 0:45:21 | |
Not just in Cardiff Bay, in Wales. | 0:45:21 | 0:45:23 | |
We're talking about women who work
across the political sphere Wales, | 0:45:23 | 0:45:27 | |
in Wales, at whatever level,
so, yes, it has been going on here. | 0:45:27 | 0:45:30 | |
We've been making it very
clear for some years | 0:45:30 | 0:45:32 | |
it's been going on here,
so yes it is time to talk about it | 0:45:32 | 0:45:36 | |
but we have been trying to talk
about it for quite some time. | 0:45:36 | 0:45:39 | |
Do you think you've been
ignored during that time? | 0:45:39 | 0:45:41 | |
Yes, absolutely we have and we've
made it pretty clear | 0:45:41 | 0:45:45 | |
that this has happened. | 0:45:45 | 0:45:47 | |
Parties have had complaints made,
where things have not happened. | 0:45:47 | 0:45:54 | |
That's absolutely clear and we've
made it clear to journalists | 0:45:54 | 0:45:58 | |
here that it's happened
here as well. | 0:45:58 | 0:46:01 | |
We took the opportunity
three years ago when... | 0:46:01 | 0:46:02 | |
When I say we, there is an informal
network of women, of course, | 0:46:02 | 0:46:08 | |
who work across different parties
and politics and I was very lucky | 0:46:08 | 0:46:12 | |
who work across different parties
in politics and I was very lucky | 0:46:12 | 0:46:15 | |
to start a business a few years ago
with Alison Goldsworthy | 0:46:15 | 0:46:18 | |
and Nerys Evans, and we took
the opportunity, I think when Alison | 0:46:18 | 0:46:21 | |
very bravely stood up and talked
about what happened to her to say | 0:46:21 | 0:46:24 | |
very clearly this was happening
in Wales and in fact, | 0:46:24 | 0:46:26 | |
what happened to Alison and other
women involved in the issue | 0:46:26 | 0:46:29 | |
regarding Lord Rennard,
happened to here in Wales. | 0:46:29 | 0:46:34 | |
We made that clear to people
so my concern has been simply a lack | 0:46:34 | 0:46:38 | |
of fluosity amongst some
of the media as well as really | 0:46:38 | 0:46:40 | |
an abject failure on the parties
to be able to tackle this very well. | 0:46:40 | 0:46:44 | |
Is it something that
you can say that you've got | 0:46:44 | 0:46:46 | |
personal experience of? | 0:46:46 | 0:46:47 | |
Yes, of course. | 0:46:47 | 0:46:48 | |
Absolutely. | 0:46:48 | 0:46:49 | |
Can you elaborate on that at all? | 0:46:49 | 0:46:53 | |
One experience I had very,
very early on in my career was, | 0:46:53 | 0:46:58 | |
looking back now, it sounds odd,
but the experience I had | 0:46:58 | 0:47:03 | |
was, I've lost my keys,
I need somewhere to stay. | 0:47:03 | 0:47:05 | |
You know, in a relationship
which was very distinct in terms | 0:47:05 | 0:47:14 | |
of power differences,
I was very early on in my career and | 0:47:14 | 0:47:22 | |
this was an elected representative. | 0:47:22 | 0:47:23 | |
I made very clear that nothing
was going to happen. | 0:47:23 | 0:47:26 | |
He's staying in the spare room. | 0:47:26 | 0:47:27 | |
And then, sometime later,
coming into my bedroom | 0:47:27 | 0:47:29 | |
and trying to get into my bed. | 0:47:29 | 0:47:34 | |
I've had a situation
where somebody's come into the taxi | 0:47:34 | 0:47:37 | |
that I'm going home in,
so, you know, this isn't | 0:47:37 | 0:47:40 | |
about my experiences,
this is about the experience | 0:47:40 | 0:47:43 | |
of women that we've worked
with over the last 20 years. | 0:47:43 | 0:47:49 | |
One of the former Assembly Members I
was talking to was saying | 0:47:49 | 0:47:51 | |
that the fact that the Assembly's
such a small institution makes it | 0:47:51 | 0:47:54 | |
so much more difficult,
because you see a man behaving | 0:47:54 | 0:47:57 | |
in a horrifically inappropriate
manner, but it's more difficult | 0:47:57 | 0:48:07 | |
because you know him. | 0:48:07 | 0:48:12 | |
because you know him. | 0:48:12 | 0:48:16 | |
You're friends with him. | 0:48:16 | 0:48:18 | |
Has that been your experience? | 0:48:18 | 0:48:19 | |
Is that how you see it as well? | 0:48:19 | 0:48:21 | |
That's not that different
from Westminster. | 0:48:21 | 0:48:23 | |
What's difficult is that this
is a political sphere. | 0:48:23 | 0:48:25 | |
It's so the power of it makes it
more difficult than say, | 0:48:25 | 0:48:28 | |
potentially in another industry. | 0:48:28 | 0:48:29 | |
You can't simply go to HR. | 0:48:29 | 0:48:30 | |
You've got to make a decision
about how far you're | 0:48:30 | 0:48:32 | |
going to take this. | 0:48:32 | 0:48:34 | |
You've got to have your parties,
because a lot of people | 0:48:34 | 0:48:36 | |
are working in parties,
you've got to have the competence | 0:48:36 | 0:48:39 | |
of the organisation to back you,
because they make political | 0:48:39 | 0:48:41 | |
decisions which are different from
those which are around safeguarding. | 0:48:41 | 0:48:43 | |
It's been difficult for journalists
you have to deal with as well | 0:48:43 | 0:48:46 | |
and one of your colleagues may
bravely go forward and said | 0:48:46 | 0:48:49 | |
this happened to her. | 0:48:49 | 0:48:50 | |
Of course it did and of course it's
happened to other women. | 0:48:50 | 0:48:53 | |
The point you were making
their about the HR side of things | 0:48:53 | 0:48:56 | |
The point you were making
there about the HR side of things | 0:48:56 | 0:48:59 | |
and that it is difficult
because these men are making | 0:48:59 | 0:49:01 | |
decisions about your career
and everything like that, | 0:49:01 | 0:49:03 | |
do you think these men know that? | 0:49:03 | 0:49:04 | |
Of course they do. | 0:49:04 | 0:49:06 | |
And feed off it? | 0:49:06 | 0:49:07 | |
Well, of course they do. | 0:49:07 | 0:49:08 | |
This isn't random men
flirting with women. | 0:49:08 | 0:49:10 | |
This is the situation
and I'd just like to say, | 0:49:10 | 0:49:12 | |
this is a small number of men. | 0:49:12 | 0:49:14 | |
It is a very, very
small number of men. | 0:49:14 | 0:49:16 | |
And, you know, I think it's
important to say as well, | 0:49:16 | 0:49:18 | |
if this is a story that becomes
about what happened on Friday, | 0:49:18 | 0:49:21 | |
then it would be doing
a great disservice... | 0:49:21 | 0:49:23 | |
Friday, Carl Sargeant as a Cabinet
minister being sacked | 0:49:23 | 0:49:25 | |
because of his personal conduct. | 0:49:25 | 0:49:28 | |
It would be doing a great disservice
to the women who worked in politics | 0:49:28 | 0:49:31 | |
in Wales over the last 20 years,
because it would be actually | 0:49:31 | 0:49:34 | |
missing the reality
of what is actually going on. | 0:49:34 | 0:49:36 | |
We are talking about
a small number of men. | 0:49:36 | 0:49:38 | |
We have a lot of allies
who are men as well, | 0:49:38 | 0:49:41 | |
who are very supportive
of what we do, trying | 0:49:41 | 0:49:44 | |
to raise our voices here but let's
not suggest a lot of other men don't | 0:49:44 | 0:49:48 | |
know what is going on as well. | 0:49:48 | 0:49:49 | |
Thankfully, we are talking
about a small number of men who have | 0:49:49 | 0:49:52 | |
used their positions
and are sexual predators. | 0:49:52 | 0:49:57 | |
They've used their positions
in politics knowing | 0:49:57 | 0:50:00 | |
that the parties will protect them. | 0:50:00 | 0:50:03 | |
This is not a party political issue. | 0:50:03 | 0:50:06 | |
It happens across all parties. | 0:50:06 | 0:50:10 | |
There are some parties
who culturally haven't quite learned | 0:50:10 | 0:50:12 | |
how to deal with this at all. | 0:50:12 | 0:50:14 | |
There are some parties that,
let's just say, get it right | 0:50:14 | 0:50:17 | |
about 50% of the time. | 0:50:17 | 0:50:20 | |
And there are some parties that just
abjectly awful at dealing with that. | 0:50:20 | 0:50:23 | |
So when you see that the party
leaders will be meeting | 0:50:23 | 0:50:26 | |
with Elin Jones, on Tuesday to move
on, what do they need to do and how | 0:50:26 | 0:50:31 | |
hopeful are you now that they'll
get to grips with that? | 0:50:31 | 0:50:33 | |
Firstly, if anyone of them around
that table say they didn't | 0:50:33 | 0:50:36 | |
know this was going on,
I would say to them, | 0:50:36 | 0:50:38 | |
hang on a minute. | 0:50:38 | 0:50:40 | |
If anyone of them say
that their parties are fine in terms | 0:50:40 | 0:50:42 | |
of the procedures they've got in,
oh yes, we've got new procedures | 0:50:42 | 0:50:46 | |
to deal with this -
hang on a minute. | 0:50:46 | 0:50:48 | |
That is absolutely not
the case and we know that | 0:50:48 | 0:50:50 | |
because we are testing those
procedures are right at this minute | 0:50:50 | 0:50:53 | |
and they are failing. | 0:50:53 | 0:50:55 | |
So, you know, also I think
what they'll be talking | 0:50:55 | 0:50:58 | |
about importantly is about having
a system within the Assembly | 0:50:58 | 0:51:02 | |
for people who work in that building
but that isn't enough. | 0:51:02 | 0:51:05 | |
These parties cannot
be let off the hook. | 0:51:05 | 0:51:07 | |
They have got to take responsibility
for it and the leaders in Wales have | 0:51:07 | 0:51:10 | |
got to take responsibility for it. | 0:51:10 | 0:51:12 | |
You can't have people leaving it
to the people in London, | 0:51:12 | 0:51:14 | |
saying we'll put some
guidance in place. | 0:51:14 | 0:51:16 | |
The party leaders in
Wales have got to take | 0:51:16 | 0:51:18 | |
responsibility for it as well. | 0:51:18 | 0:51:22 | |
responsibility for it as well. | 0:51:22 | 0:51:28 | |
responsibility for it as well. | 0:51:28 | 0:51:28 | |
Carwyn Jones reshuffled his
government at the end of the week, | 0:51:35 | 0:51:40 | |
with Jane Hutt and Carl Sargeant
leaving their posts. In came a raft | 0:51:40 | 0:51:46 | |
of new names, including bye knew
maybe, Lord Dafydd Elis-Thomas, | 0:51:46 | 0:51:51 | |
finally a minister after 43 years in
public life. Valerie Livingston | 0:51:51 | 0:51:57 | |
Jones B. Before we go on to that,
you have worked at the highest level | 0:51:57 | 0:52:06 | |
of working with government, and what
are your reflections on what you've | 0:52:06 | 0:52:09 | |
just heard?
An incredibly brave interview. She | 0:52:09 | 0:52:15 | |
is absolutely right to say that
there's a problem in Cardiff Bay. | 0:52:15 | 0:52:19 | |
This is the opportunity to tackle
it. Can't have words. We need | 0:52:19 | 0:52:26 | |
action. We need to make politics a
safe place for young women to work | 0:52:26 | 0:52:30 | |
and to build their careers based on
the talent is not on the | 0:52:30 | 0:52:34 | |
relationships before modern form.
And that meeting we mentioned, the | 0:52:34 | 0:52:38 | |
party leaders on Tuesday, it's easy
to say we're changing the procedures | 0:52:38 | 0:52:44 | |
but it's that culture which will be
a lot more stubborn, I'm assuming, | 0:52:44 | 0:52:49 | |
to judge. The culture goes to the
heart of it. People going to | 0:52:49 | 0:52:57 | |
politics because of the belief and
it's that belief that leads to this | 0:52:57 | 0:53:02 | |
career for your personal life is so
closely linked to your professional | 0:53:02 | 0:53:06 | |
life. I think unpicking that and
putting into place professional | 0:53:06 | 0:53:11 | |
practices will be a challenge that
we can't shyly a la -- away from. | 0:53:11 | 0:53:19 | |
We've invited you to talk about the
Cabinet reshuffle. How much of a | 0:53:19 | 0:53:24 | |
surprise? There will be a reshuffle.
How much of a surprise, the comings | 0:53:24 | 0:53:29 | |
and goings, the new intake, who came
in as government ministers? What are | 0:53:29 | 0:53:37 | |
your feelings? It wasn't a big
surprise. We've been waiting for | 0:53:37 | 0:53:43 | |
this show reshuffle to happen. When
Carwyn Jones formed his cabinet | 0:53:43 | 0:53:49 | |
after the 2016 election, they went a
huge number of new faces and this is | 0:53:49 | 0:53:53 | |
an opportunity to bring them in.
There are several to watch and they | 0:53:53 | 0:54:01 | |
are now in government 18 months into
the political careers. We've got | 0:54:01 | 0:54:07 | |
Jeremy Miles, another of the new
intake, straightened the Cabinet. He | 0:54:07 | 0:54:11 | |
is the main legal officer for the
Welsh Government. Part of the fact | 0:54:11 | 0:54:18 | |
that he's overtaken everyone else?
Certainly, he's proven himself to be | 0:54:18 | 0:54:24 | |
a keen legal mind in the Assembly.
He asks highly technical questions | 0:54:24 | 0:54:29 | |
and understands that belief. A less
high-profile role than some of the | 0:54:29 | 0:54:36 | |
ministerial ones. Carwyn Jones is to
be Consulate general. In a moment, | 0:54:36 | 0:54:48 | |
we discuss... He doesn't mind taking
on the challenge. Do we expect any | 0:54:48 | 0:54:57 | |
changes there in the way the Welsh
Government will be approaching the | 0:54:57 | 0:55:01 | |
changes, to local government, now
that's been given to Alun Davies? | 0:55:01 | 0:55:04 | |
The reform of local government was
driven forward by Leighton Andrews. | 0:55:04 | 0:55:09 | |
It has been put on the back burner
in recent months because Alun Davies | 0:55:09 | 0:55:15 | |
has had a lot on his plate with
Brexit and the budget. Leighton | 0:55:15 | 0:55:22 | |
Andrews has said we're going to get
you down to eight or nine and Mark | 0:55:22 | 0:55:27 | |
Drakeford came in a lot more laid
back, and said let's work together, | 0:55:27 | 0:55:32 | |
let's see what we get. Do you think
we're going to go back to Leighton | 0:55:32 | 0:55:40 | |
Andrews or continue with the Mark
Drakeford style? I think we'll see | 0:55:40 | 0:55:44 | |
more pushing from Alun Davies. And
what does this tell us about Carwyn | 0:55:44 | 0:55:49 | |
Jones? We were speculating he might
do another year or two before he | 0:55:49 | 0:55:56 | |
stands down as First Minister. He
said recently he wants to serve the | 0:55:56 | 0:56:01 | |
full terms. Does this tell us
anything about his thinking on when | 0:56:01 | 0:56:04 | |
he might stand down? I wonder if
bringing those newly elected | 0:56:04 | 0:56:10 | |
Assembly Members into the Cabinet
was giving them the exposure to | 0:56:10 | 0:56:15 | |
minister to approach -- portfolios,
before he stands down. It doesn't | 0:56:15 | 0:56:19 | |
seem to be on the cards at the
moment but he will have been First | 0:56:19 | 0:56:23 | |
Minister for ten years in May 2009,
which is a lengthy time in the top | 0:56:23 | 0:56:28 | |
job. Are we surprised there wasn't a
Brexit Minister roll out there? | 0:56:28 | 0:56:34 | |
Would turn out and out Brexit
minister have helped? I don't know. | 0:56:34 | 0:56:41 | |
It might have been a little more
clear-cut but what the signals are | 0:56:41 | 0:56:45 | |
is that Carwyn Jones sees Brexit
responsibilities to lie. It's partly | 0:56:45 | 0:56:52 | |
constitutional, partly financial. So
he's between himself and Professor | 0:56:52 | 0:56:56 | |
Drakeford. | 0:56:56 | 0:56:57 | |
Drakeford. | 0:56:57 | 0:56:58 | |
Ahead of Philip Hammond's Budget
in a couple of weeks, | 0:56:58 | 0:57:00 | |
the Welsh Government has
sent him its wish list. | 0:57:00 | 0:57:02 | |
In a nutshell, ministers want
a commitment from Westminster | 0:57:02 | 0:57:04 | |
to invest in infrastructure such
as the Swansea tidal | 0:57:04 | 0:57:06 | |
lagoon and other projects. | 0:57:06 | 0:57:08 | |
Well, the Finance Minister Mark
Drakeford joins me now. | 0:57:08 | 0:57:17 | |
We can come on in a moment to
discuss Philip Hammond but to go | 0:57:27 | 0:57:34 | |
back to what Cathy Owens were
saying, and you've worked closely | 0:57:34 | 0:57:40 | |
with, watched you make of what she
was saying? I felt sick to the pit | 0:57:40 | 0:57:46 | |
of my stomach listening to that
interview with Cathy. It was a brave | 0:57:46 | 0:57:51 | |
interview and she went to the very
heart of government. I sat at a desk | 0:57:51 | 0:57:58 | |
close to her and she fought a good
fight on behalf of the government to | 0:57:58 | 0:58:02 | |
see so to hear some of their
personal experiences is shocking but | 0:58:02 | 0:58:06 | |
it also demonstrates as she said,
the need to get the most serious | 0:58:06 | 0:58:10 | |
grip on these circumstances. Nobody
should imagine that there isn't an | 0:58:10 | 0:58:15 | |
issue here that has to be dealt with
and next week will be very important | 0:58:15 | 0:58:18 | |
in making sure that happens. Does it
to ring true to you what we heard | 0:58:18 | 0:58:24 | |
that it is tolerated, that a blind
eye was occasionally turns to | 0:58:24 | 0:58:29 | |
inappropriate behaviour? Is that
something that rings true with you? | 0:58:29 | 0:58:32 | |
It important to pick up a couple of
other things that Cathy said. She | 0:58:32 | 0:58:38 | |
said the fact that we have so many
women and women in prominent | 0:58:38 | 0:58:42 | |
positions as the semi has made a
difference. It is a different | 0:58:42 | 0:58:46 | |
institution to others but in any
place where power is at stake, any | 0:58:46 | 0:58:52 | |
organisation, there will be some
people who seek to exploit that and | 0:58:52 | 0:58:57 | |
if they are -- there are instances
at the Assembly, then they | 0:58:57 | 0:59:03 | |
absolutely have to be taken
seriously and systems have to be put | 0:59:03 | 0:59:05 | |
in place to make sure that they are
not tolerated if they have been in | 0:59:05 | 0:59:10 | |
the past. They must not be
tolerated. The meeting we mentioned, | 0:59:10 | 0:59:16 | |
the power to reduce coming together
how important is it that there is | 0:59:16 | 0:59:22 | |
commitment to challenge in this kind
of behaviour? There will be that | 0:59:22 | 0:59:27 | |
commitment there. I don't believe
the leadership of parties at the | 0:59:27 | 0:59:30 | |
Assembly, they will be anything
other than determined to make sure | 0:59:30 | 0:59:34 | |
that if we are at a particular
moment in which things that | 0:59:34 | 0:59:38 | |
previously have been below the
surface are coming through, and | 0:59:38 | 0:59:41 | |
rightly so. It's very important to
encourage anybody who has anything | 0:59:41 | 0:59:45 | |
that they need to say to come
forward and say that. I think that | 0:59:45 | 0:59:49 | |
will be taken very seriously by
party leaders and we'll be able to | 0:59:49 | 0:59:53 | |
see next week how they want to make
sure that things that may have been | 0:59:53 | 0:59:56 | |
tolerated in the past and quite
strongly, those things will not be | 0:59:56 | 1:00:01 | |
tolerated in the future. This
morning, you've publish this letter | 1:00:01 | 1:00:06 | |
that you've written to Philip
Hammond, the Treasurer, outlining | 1:00:06 | 1:00:12 | |
what you'd like to see from the
budget. It is a wish list of we want | 1:00:12 | 1:00:17 | |
more, we want better, we want more
spent. Is that a realistic, given | 1:00:17 | 1:00:22 | |
that over the last few years, that
very much hasn't been forthcoming, | 1:00:22 | 1:00:27 | |
it hasn't been the style of UK
Government? It's an important part | 1:00:27 | 1:00:32 | |
of the budget process. We get an
opportunity on the run up to the | 1:00:32 | 1:00:36 | |
budget on the 22nd November to make
the case for the way in which we | 1:00:36 | 1:00:42 | |
think important decisions made by
the Chancellor should be discharged | 1:00:42 | 1:00:46 | |
in relation to Wales. I have written
and I have been to the tragedy and | 1:00:46 | 1:00:51 | |
bat with my Scottish counterpart as
well. What we do is make a series of | 1:00:51 | 1:00:57 | |
point about the economy on the
whole, and then there's an | 1:00:57 | 1:01:01 | |
opportunity to identify some very
specific matters that are relevant | 1:01:01 | 1:01:05 | |
here in Wales. If you've met with
officials and politicians there, | 1:01:05 | 1:01:09 | |
it's a realistic list so you've come
out and written off a huge list of | 1:01:09 | 1:01:16 | |
things that probably aren't going to
amount to anything? My job is to | 1:01:16 | 1:01:20 | |
make sure UK ministers are entirely
aware of the point of view of the | 1:01:20 | 1:01:26 | |
national Assembly and things that
are important in Wales. Do I come | 1:01:26 | 1:01:31 | |
away feeling that? I've always had
the impact that I feel the need to | 1:01:31 | 1:01:36 | |
have. The answer is no. We have a
government in Westminster that has a | 1:01:36 | 1:01:40 | |
different set of beliefs and
priorities. I banged the table and | 1:01:40 | 1:01:45 | |
say now is the time to put an end to
austerity and lift the pick-up, and | 1:01:45 | 1:01:49 | |
be sure you borrow to invest. Do I
think that alongside everybody else | 1:01:49 | 1:01:53 | |
who's making their spines, I'm
guaranteed to win through? I don't | 1:01:53 | 1:01:57 | |
say that at all. But it is very
important to those points are made | 1:01:57 | 1:02:01 | |
forcefully on behalf of Wales. You
talk about devolving air passenger | 1:02:01 | 1:02:06 | |
duty. So have your own Labour
members of Parliament been reluctant | 1:02:06 | 1:02:14 | |
to have that devolved. It's not all
the fault of the UK Government. They | 1:02:14 | 1:02:19 | |
are in charge in Westminster. I
negotiate with them and say to them | 1:02:19 | 1:02:24 | |
things should be devolved to Wales
as it is to Scotland and Northern | 1:02:24 | 1:02:29 | |
Ireland and as they recommended
themselves, as it was this week | 1:02:29 | 1:02:33 | |
reinforced again by new research,
I'm making some very important | 1:02:33 | 1:02:37 | |
points and serious points to them
and that's exactly what they need to | 1:02:37 | 1:02:40 | |
do. Thank you very much. | 1:02:40 | 1:02:43 | |
That's it for this week. | 1:02:43 | 1:02:44 | |
We're taking a short
break next Sunday. | 1:02:44 | 1:02:46 | |
Meanwhile don't forget
about our new political and current | 1:02:46 | 1:02:51 | |
affairs programme Wales Live
which begins this Wednesday | 1:02:51 | 1:02:56 | |
on BBC One Wales at 10.30pm. | 1:02:56 | 1:02:57 | |
But for now, diolch am wylio -
thanks for watching. | 1:02:57 | 1:03:02 | |
Time to go back to Sarah. | 1:03:02 | 1:03:04 | |
to support. | 1:03:06 | 1:03:07 | |
All right, and at that point
we have to end it there. | 1:03:07 | 1:03:10 | |
My thanks to Rosena and Andrew,
and with that it's back to Sarah. | 1:03:10 | 1:03:13 | |
It's been a tricky
week for Theresa May - | 1:03:13 | 1:03:15 | |
again, you might think. | 1:03:15 | 1:03:16 | |
She's lost a Cabinet minister
and been forced into a reshuffle | 1:03:16 | 1:03:19 | |
which did little for party unity,
to say nothing of losing a Commons | 1:03:19 | 1:03:22 | |
vote on Brexit and yet more reports
of fireworks in Cabinet meetings - | 1:03:22 | 1:03:25 | |
this time apparently over housing. | 1:03:25 | 1:03:26 | |
So, is the Prime Minister's time
in office going with a bang | 1:03:26 | 1:03:29 | |
or more of a whimper? | 1:03:29 | 1:03:30 | |
Well, we sent Ellie Price | 1:03:30 | 1:03:31 | |
and the entirely unscientific
Sunday Politics moodbox | 1:03:31 | 1:03:33 | |
to Conservative-held Surrey,
to find out. | 1:03:33 | 1:03:35 | |
ALL: Three, two, one. | 1:03:35 | 1:03:39 | |
# Ignite the light
and let it shine...# | 1:03:39 | 1:03:45 | |
It's a tale of lit fuses, plots,
conspiracy, treachery, | 1:03:45 | 1:03:49 | |
but enough of the recent goings
on in the Conservative Party, | 1:03:49 | 1:03:52 | |
it's firework night here
in Guildford and we're asking, | 1:03:52 | 1:03:56 | |
does Theresa May have control
of her Government and her party? | 1:03:56 | 1:03:59 | |
Yes or no? | 1:03:59 | 1:04:00 | |
# Baby you're a firework...# | 1:04:00 | 1:04:05 | |
# Baby you're a firework...# | 1:04:05 | 1:04:05 | |
With all the scandals in Government
at the moment | 1:04:05 | 1:04:07 | |
and Brexit seems to be dragging on
a little bit longer than we thought. | 1:04:07 | 1:04:11 | |
So, at the moment, I don't think
she is in control. | 1:04:11 | 1:04:14 | |
She's too many people sniping
at her back, really. | 1:04:17 | 1:04:20 | |
Do you think Theresa
May's in control? | 1:04:20 | 1:04:22 | |
I think she's in control. | 1:04:22 | 1:04:23 | |
She's in a good job
having a tough time. | 1:04:23 | 1:04:26 | |
No, I don't. | 1:04:26 | 1:04:27 | |
I think she's a mess. | 1:04:27 | 1:04:28 | |
Even when you read her body language
when she's being interviewed | 1:04:28 | 1:04:31 | |
by people, she doesn't
seem like she's in control. | 1:04:31 | 1:04:33 | |
I think she has poor advisers. | 1:04:33 | 1:04:37 | |
I'm going to put it in the "yes". | 1:04:39 | 1:04:43 | |
I do think she's struggling but,
I still hope, still think she has | 1:04:43 | 1:04:47 | |
a bit of a grip on them. | 1:04:47 | 1:04:50 | |
The Queen is England's role. | 1:04:50 | 1:04:52 | |
It's her birth right. | 1:04:52 | 1:04:54 | |
She is England's role
of this country. | 1:04:54 | 1:04:58 | |
I'm going to vote for Theresa May. | 1:04:58 | 1:05:00 | |
I don't think there's anyone
who could do a better job. | 1:05:00 | 1:05:04 | |
I think she's had a bit of
a poisoned chalice with Brexit but | 1:05:04 | 1:05:07 | |
I think she could have done better. | 1:05:07 | 1:05:08 | |
The money's not going
to where it needs to go. | 1:05:08 | 1:05:11 | |
I think she should resign, really. | 1:05:11 | 1:05:12 | |
I feel a bit sorry
for her, actually. | 1:05:12 | 1:05:15 | |
I think she's been witch-hunted
a little bit. | 1:05:15 | 1:05:17 | |
She's doing her best. | 1:05:17 | 1:05:20 | |
With everything that's
going on with the Cabinet at the | 1:05:20 | 1:05:23 | |
moment, I think the Conservative
Party is in a real mess, actually. | 1:05:23 | 1:05:26 | |
Very disappointed. | 1:05:26 | 1:05:28 | |
Well, you get bickering in all parts
not just the Conservative Party. | 1:05:28 | 1:05:34 | |
And that's just sort
of par for the course. | 1:05:34 | 1:05:37 | |
But I'm sure she'll
hold everybody together | 1:05:37 | 1:05:39 | |
despite the current difficulties. | 1:05:39 | 1:05:41 | |
The Tories weren't in control
when they had the referendum | 1:05:41 | 1:05:44 | |
in the first place for the euro. | 1:05:44 | 1:05:46 | |
We've had two years
of complete chaos. | 1:05:46 | 1:05:52 | |
Well, I seem to have
acquired a few new friends. | 1:05:52 | 1:05:55 | |
The oohs and ahs are
over and so the moodbox | 1:05:55 | 1:05:58 | |
and the result is... | 1:05:58 | 1:06:02 | |
No. | 1:06:02 | 1:06:03 | |
The majority of people
here in Guildford | 1:06:03 | 1:06:04 | |
don't think Theresa May
is in control. | 1:06:04 | 1:06:07 | |
CHEERING | 1:06:07 | 1:06:11 | |
That was Ellie with the entirely
unscientific moodbox, and thanks | 1:06:11 | 1:06:13 | |
to Bushy Hill Junior School
in Guildford for having her along. | 1:06:13 | 1:06:20 | |
Let's put
in Guildford for having her along. | 1:06:20 | 1:06:21 | |
Let's put the
in Guildford for having her along. | 1:06:21 | 1:06:21 | |
Let's put the Sorbol
in Guildford for having her along. | 1:06:21 | 1:06:21 | |
Let's put the Sorbol question
in Guildford for having her along. | 1:06:21 | 1:06:21 | |
Let's put the Sorbol question to
in Guildford for having her along. | 1:06:21 | 1:06:21 | |
Let's put the Sorbol question to our
in Guildford for having her along. | 1:06:21 | 1:06:22 | |
Let's put the Sorbol question to our
panel. Equally unscientific but all | 1:06:22 | 1:06:25 | |
seasoned Westminster watchers. Is
Theresa May in control of her | 1:06:25 | 1:06:28 | |
Government at the moment or is all
of this sex harassment allegations | 1:06:28 | 1:06:33 | |
swimming around loosening her grip?
Depends what you mean by in control. | 1:06:33 | 1:06:37 | |
All Prime Ministers have a degree of
control. They retain the power much | 1:06:37 | 1:06:44 | |
tat wrongage as we saw with her
reshuffle. Didn't go down well with | 1:06:44 | 1:06:48 | |
her MPs but she did it. You can't be
fully in control of these situations | 1:06:48 | 1:06:54 | |
in effectively what is a hung
Parliament. If she won a land sheep | 1:06:54 | 1:06:57 | |
in the election she would have the
authority to do what she wanted. She | 1:06:57 | 1:07:01 | |
could float over something like
this. Stories like this, you could | 1:07:01 | 1:07:05 | |
say she's perfectly suited for it,
the vicar's daughter, the church | 1:07:05 | 1:07:09 | |
goer, to sort it out. It is much
more complicated than that. I don't | 1:07:09 | 1:07:12 | |
think she will be able to get a full
grip of it. There are some practical | 1:07:12 | 1:07:16 | |
things that need to happen that will
happen. I remember with back to | 1:07:16 | 1:07:21 | |
basics and John Major, that equally
vague scandal, what was back to | 1:07:21 | 1:07:25 | |
basics about? It was still running
months afterwards, stories about a | 1:07:25 | 1:07:30 | |
minister having an affair. This is
different. I can see it will be | 1:07:30 | 1:07:34 | |
impossible for her to fully get to
grips with it. Does it provide an | 1:07:34 | 1:07:38 | |
opportunity for Theresa May to be
seen to be taking really serious | 1:07:38 | 1:07:42 | |
action, trying to root out a bad
culture in Westminster and therefore | 1:07:42 | 1:07:45 | |
get some political credit for it?
That opportunity was available to | 1:07:45 | 1:07:50 | |
her all of last week and she hasn't
taken it. What's remarkable for me | 1:07:50 | 1:07:55 | |
is the near complete breakdown in
discipline in the higher ranks the | 1:07:55 | 1:07:59 | |
Tory Party. It is extraordinary you
have Cabinet level ministers who are | 1:07:59 | 1:08:04 | |
not supporting their colleagues.
Ministers and former ministers | 1:08:04 | 1:08:07 | |
giving interviews in which they slag
off their former colleagues. It is | 1:08:07 | 1:08:11 | |
an absolute unholy mess. There is no
sense that she is gripping this. Or | 1:08:11 | 1:08:16 | |
has any particular solution. I think
we can have a lot of sympathy for | 1:08:16 | 1:08:19 | |
her in terms of finding a solution.
How on earth do you grip a problem | 1:08:19 | 1:08:23 | |
like this where you're talking about
apparently an indefinite period of | 1:08:23 | 1:08:32 | |
retrospective examination of
potential faults. 15 years is no | 1:08:32 | 1:08:35 | |
longer too historic for somebody to
dredge up some small thing that may | 1:08:35 | 1:08:38 | |
or may not have happened to them. It
is very difficult for her. But she's | 1:08:38 | 1:08:42 | |
being battered around by events.
Where does this story go next? I | 1:08:42 | 1:08:49 | |
think the whip's office on every
party, Tories, Labour, Liberal | 1:08:49 | 1:08:53 | |
Democrats, SNP all have their own
whipping operations. That seems to | 1:08:53 | 1:08:56 | |
be the place of it really. This is
because, where do we draw the line? | 1:08:56 | 1:09:02 | |
Going forward what mechanisms are
put in place to top this helping | 1:09:02 | 1:09:05 | |
again. To take allegations
seriously, report them and | 1:09:05 | 1:09:10 | |
investigate them independently. Or
is there a bigger job to go back | 1:09:10 | 1:09:14 | |
into the past retrospective, who
knew what when as Nia said about | 1:09:14 | 1:09:19 | |
Kelvin Hopkins. This is a Shadow
Defence Secretary saying what did | 1:09:19 | 1:09:24 | |
the Labour Party leader know about
Kelvin Hopkins' allegations when he | 1:09:24 | 1:09:28 | |
promoted him? Theresa May is unable
to do the retrospective bit. She's | 1:09:28 | 1:09:33 | |
simply too weak. I asked this of
Number Ten last week. Why are you | 1:09:33 | 1:09:38 | |
not more front-foot the on this.
They said they would be if they | 1:09:38 | 1:09:41 | |
possibly could be. She's running a
minority Government. She cannot be | 1:09:41 | 1:09:46 | |
seen to be going after a witch-hunt
on her own people. So, I think this | 1:09:46 | 1:09:50 | |
goes on. Enof thebly what the whips
new -- inevitably what the whips | 1:09:50 | 1:09:59 | |
knew will be parment. Amber Rudd did
the same thing on Andrew Marr. They | 1:09:59 | 1:10:08 | |
are being precise about the fact
they didn't know anything. Sarah | 1:10:08 | 1:10:13 | |
Newton said she heard no allegations
about her flock, the the MPs she was | 1:10:13 | 1:10:17 | |
in charge of rather than rumours
about any other Tories. Amber Rudd | 1:10:17 | 1:10:24 | |
say, I do not recognise the more
lurid allegations. What about the | 1:10:24 | 1:10:29 | |
less lurid once? So, this smells
very, very bad indeed. Jeremy | 1:10:29 | 1:10:33 | |
Corbyn's going to have to answer
some of these questions as well? | 1:10:33 | 1:10:40 | |
Yeah, but the whip's thing is a red
herring. Their remit is to get the | 1:10:40 | 1:10:44 | |
vote out for the Government
fundamentally. Everybody knows that. | 1:10:44 | 1:10:47 | |
They are not there, it is one of the
problems. They are not there to be | 1:10:47 | 1:10:51 | |
moral guides to these MPs. They are
there to win votes for the | 1:10:51 | 1:10:55 | |
Government or the opposition if that
becomes possible. And deal brutally | 1:10:55 | 1:10:59 | |
with MPs to make sure they get out
and vote. Of course they knew | 1:10:59 | 1:11:03 | |
virtually everything. But whether
they were obliged to act as moral | 1:11:03 | 1:11:08 | |
guard yawns in these situations, I
don't think they were. It was not | 1:11:08 | 1:11:12 | |
part of their job. Maybe you need
moral guardians in there but not the | 1:11:12 | 1:11:16 | |
whips. Normally, less than
three-weeks out from a budget that's | 1:11:16 | 1:11:21 | |
what we'd been talking about.
Dominating our conversation. Given | 1:11:21 | 1:11:24 | |
that's set for November 22nd, is
that an opportunity for the | 1:11:24 | 1:11:27 | |
Government to seize back control of
the story? Philip Hammond may be | 1:11:27 | 1:11:32 | |
glad we're not spending too much
time talking about the budget. It | 1:11:32 | 1:11:35 | |
should be an opportunity for the
Government to seize the agenda, draw | 1:11:35 | 1:11:39 | |
a line under all of this. I think
one of the very difficult as pects | 1:11:39 | 1:11:43 | |
of this so-called scandal for the
Government to manage is knowing | 1:11:43 | 1:11:47 | |
quite how long it will run. In the
normal scheme of things they lose | 1:11:47 | 1:11:51 | |
steam after a couple of weeks. But
there are so many potential gayses | 1:11:51 | 1:11:56 | |
that could come out, it might run
longer than that. Rather like the | 1:11:56 | 1:12:00 | |
expenses scandal. But there is an
opportunity at the budget to reset | 1:12:00 | 1:12:03 | |
the' again da. I just don't think
Philip Hammond will take it. I think | 1:12:03 | 1:12:08 | |
he's a very caution Chancellor. At
the moment, there is a feeling | 1:12:08 | 1:12:12 | |
Theresa May's leadership is so weak
it will be too dangerous for them to | 1:12:12 | 1:12:18 | |
do anything particularly dram attic
why. I expect a steady as you go | 1:12:18 | 1:12:23 | |
budget where they will be hoping not
to make any mistakes. You say there | 1:12:23 | 1:12:27 | |
is disagreement in the Cabinet about
what should be in the budget? | 1:12:27 | 1:12:33 | |
Disagreement between the Chancellor
and the Prime Minister. The | 1:12:33 | 1:12:38 | |
witch-hunt is hiding a huge story
which is the incredible dysfunction | 1:12:38 | 1:12:43 | |
between Number Ten and number 11.
Philip Hammond and Theresa May can't | 1:12:43 | 1:12:46 | |
bear to be in the same room with
each other let alone agreeing what's | 1:12:46 | 1:12:50 | |
in the budget. It is coming down to
housing. Everybody agrees it has to | 1:12:50 | 1:12:54 | |
be the centrepiece of the budget.
They have to get more houses built. | 1:12:54 | 1:13:00 | |
Philip Hammond wands that bee
deregulation. Theresa May wants to | 1:13:00 | 1:13:05 | |
are borrow up to 50 billion
merchandise more for the Government | 1:13:05 | 1:13:08 | |
to build for themselves. | 1:13:08 | 1:13:10 | |
That's all for today. | 1:13:10 | 1:13:11 | |
There's no Sunday Politics
next weekend | 1:13:11 | 1:13:13 | |
while Parliament is in recess, | 1:13:13 | 1:13:15 | |
but I'll be back here at 11am
on BBC One in two weeks' time. | 1:13:15 | 1:13:18 | |
Until then, bye bye. | 1:13:18 | 1:13:22 |