17/02/2013 Sunday Politics West Midlands

And in the Midlands, the fall-out from Stafford spread to three more

our hospitals. They are under investigation because of

Apology for the loss of subtitles for 2136 seconds

persistently high death rate. Sound Hello once again from the Midlands,

I am Patrick Burns and an joined today by two of our region's rising

Westminster stars if you believe the hype. Nadhim Zahawi is the

Conservative MP for Stratford-on- Avon and has been identified as the

Cabinet minister in the year 2020 by the Conservative Home website if

the party is in power at the time. In your dreams, says Emma Reynolds,

the Labour MP for Wolverhampton because she has got to the shadow

front bench. It is good to have you both with us. Let's get to business.

The BBC has revealed that of all the compensation claims from people

living on the proposed high-speed railway line between London and

Birmingham, just one quarter have so far been accepted. The

Exceptional Hardship Scheme was brought in for those who needed to

move home early. 428 applications have been received but only 103

have been approved. HS2 Ltd has bought 72 properties at a cost of

�43 million. It took one resident from Wishaw four attempts to get

the deal he deserved. It is devastating when you get turned

down because you do not know why you will go forward, everything

gets put on hold. He can't do anything, spend any money,

everything you do revolves around the fact that you are basically

stuck in time. You are waiting for them to make a decision. They are

in a pretty clear cut case, by the look of it, Nadhim. It should not

take four attempt. The evidence to have uncovered is disturbing and be

compensation is pretty generous, people within the first 60 metres

near the rail line will get market price plus 10% on top, up to 47,000

and the next 120 metres is market price and beyond that, people can

still make an argument for their property to be bought. It is a

pretty generous compensation but if the time it takes is that long,

that is the thing that is so painful. And quite enough

aggravation, particularly among your party colleagues, if you do

not get compensation early enough it adds to the desperation. Yes.

Now we have got the right levels which are generous enough and in

the right space, effectively, it's important that the implementation

and the speed at which these things are dealt with is done efficiently

and it is important that anybody watching this today who is having

the sort of problems, they should take it up with their MP and the

Secretary of State because we need to stamp on this. No wonder you

support HS2 because it is a good way of getting Tory MPs at each

other's throats! I agree with... One would be your point about the

argument? I agree with Nadhim that it is the implementation that is

key. That person's house should have been bought and he should not

have had to make four applications. People attach to their houses, I am

in favour of HS2 but we must reduce the disruption as much as possible

for those affected on the line who have to move. A particular issue,

not just for people close to the line and obvious cases but someone

perhaps he may be half a mile away so on the wrong side of the

compensation line but nevertheless their property is blighted by it.

There is now a mechanism in place for those people to apply for their

homes to be acquired. There are three levels, 60 metres, 120 metres

and whatever is beyond that. But like Emma says, emotionally this is

difficult for people. Suddenly your whole life is turned upside-down

and the quicker that HS2 deals with it, the better.

More Midlands hospitals investigated over high death-rate.

We visit the Queen's Hospital in Burton where they are am about to

welcome the inspectors. So soon after the public report on Stafford

Hospital inquiry scandal. Much to discuss on that but let's talk

first about the young woman from Birmingham who took on the

Government and won, or did she? Cait Reilly was told that if she

did not do two weeks of three work for Poundland, she would lose her

jobseeker's allowance. It is seen as a major setback for the Back To

Work programme but as Elizabeth Glinka discovers, ministers are

determined to persevere with the scheme.

It is the Government's flagship policy, to concentrate the minds of

jobseekers but two weeks of unpaid work at Poundland in Kings Heath

ment Cait Reilly had to leave voluntary work at a museum. Those

two weeks were a waste of time on the experience did not help me get

a job, I was not given training and I had no time to look for other

work and do volunteer work. The core of Appeal work ruled that

government regulations and are penning this had been inadequate.

The Government has unlawfully required tens of thousands of

unemployed people to work without pay and unlawfully stripped

thousands more of their subsistence benefit. It is a major breakthrough

for the law firm based in Birmingham. The company have worked

on cases like the All treatment of prisoners in Iraq to the closure of

libraries here. They have always denied that the work is politically

motivated. They say that it is up to governments and councils to

comply with the law. The Government is tabling new regulations which it

says will avoid uncertainty. One of our region's MPs is not deterred.

Young people find it hard to get jobs without experience and they

find it difficult to get experience without having a job so these

schemes help people. But if the Government must repay people who

have to work for nothing, the bill for the taxpayer will be millions

more than that famous �1. It certainly would. If you get into

government, you will not be celebrating in the way that you are

at the moment. The government is embarrassed but the Blairs could be

on your back. I think the Government has a responsibility to

help people get back into work -- but the lawyers could be on your

back. In this case as your report points out, this might end up

costing lots of money. The Government have paid to go to court

on this and they will appeal which will cost more money and if they

are unsuccessful, it is possible that thousands of people will

demand a rebate if, in their case as well, forcing them to work was

illegal. Nadhim, it looks like you have exploited this young person

and a great expense to the public purse potentially. It is

interesting what Emma thinks because one of her colleagues

thinks we are doing the right thing. People in receipt of benefits

should not be getting work- experience. We were on the way to

passing legislation to correct what the judgement effectively said, the

wording that was wrong with the previous legislation. But the

important principle is that, should a young person get work experience

to get them on their way to getting a real job... She already was a

volunteer in a museum, she did not to stacks health. She asked for a

retailing job if you look at her application -- to stack shelves.

There is nothing wrong with stacking shelves. Terry Leahy

started stacking shelves and became the chief executive of Tesco's. The

worst programme it is working -- the work programme is working very

well, costing �1 per person and under Labour, this was costing 20

per times more when there is no money around. A does concentrate

the minds of jobseekers -- it does. I agree with work-experience but

that should involve training and if somebody is doing a full-time job

it should involve them getting paid the minimum wage. In this

particular circumstance, as you said, Cait Reilly was doing

voluntary work at the museum and then forced to give up that

voluntary work and was made to work full-time for David and Mark Short

and she was not paid the minimum wage -- full time for Poundland.

The number of people finding work in the private sector, you have to

go back decades to get this sort of numbers we are seeing now. I agree

with people getting experience but I also think it has to be done on a

case-by-case basis and in this case, she was a geography graduate and

she should have got some training. She is now working at the

supermarket as we speak so that was not the principle of this case, the

principle was she was not paid. you are in receipt of benefits,

there is nothing wrong with the getting work experience, that is

the principle. We will leave it there for the minute. One week

after the France has report into catastrophic failings at Stafford

Hospital, -- the Francis Report, three other hospitals are under

investigation. In total, 14 major hospitals across England are being

examined including those in Dudley and Nuneaton. BBC Radio Stoke's

reporter Phil McCann has been to the third in Burton on Trent to ask

if a new watchdog is at least part Put yourself in the shoes of these

patients. Would he be wondering if this hospital could be another

Stafford Hospital? Every time I have been here personally, they

have sorted my kids out very well. If you have to come in, you have to

come in. There is nothing you can do about it. It is being

investigated because of higher than expected death rate over the last

two years. Queen's -- George Eliot Hospital is also being investigated.

We welcome the opportunity for the review. There are always things we

can learn and improve prison services, will come the review and

the findings and opportunities. Mortality rates, people described

them as a smoke alarm. It is only right and proper that as part of

the process we look at our services What happened at Stafford Hospital

was so grave it prompted five inquiries including two led by

Robert Francis QC. Out of his first was born Healthwatch, the

Government's vision for delivering health scrutiny which had been

conspicuous by its absence at Stafford. Jan Sensier will run

Staffordshire's Healthwatch. She will be the was of thousands of

patients giving them the courage to speak up when things go wrong so

who should be involved up? I do not think we need the medical expertise.

Lots of people within the NHS have the expertise and we are not trying

to replicate that, we are trained to ask what does it feel like from

the point of view of those experiencing it? But on a strict's

programme, the boss of our region's biggest hospital had misgivings

about the top of people who might be asked to carry out inspections.

If you have them, they should have the credibility to do it so it

involve patients to use the service and also doctors and nurses,

physiotherapists, people who lie in current practice. It has been a

week of intense pressure for the NHS in the Midlands, one of our

hospitals found itself at in the discussion and no shortage of

talking points. We will pick up on some of those

talking points now. During the package from Phil McCann, we met

the chief executive of Burton Hospital. We are also joined by

somebody else from another Midlands hospital and, Kevin McGee runs the

George Eliot Hospital at Nuneaton and Warwickshire. You and your

colleagues say you welcome this review. Through gritted teeth,

presumably. I personally do welcome this inquiry. We have done lots of

work at George Eliot Hospital in terms of trying to improve our

quality and patient experience. We have got a good story to tell. We

are not perfect and we need to improve but we have got a good

story to tell and the work we have done can be shared across the wider

NHS but also another point which is important. As the chief executive,

if there is anything that we are not doing that we should do, I want

to know so this review is important. Let me ask you a direct question,

what would you say to patients who may feel entitled to ask if there

is another step at hospital out there, if George Eliot Hospital is

another one of the basis of this review? We have done a lot of work

looking at mortality and also patient experience and the vast

majority of our indicators show that we are a safe, good, local

hospital providing good care with dignity to our local population are.

We talk about higher than expected death-rate, do you have a view on

what sort of numbers we are talking about? The impression is rather

vague at the moment. It is difficult to actually get a handle

on the actual number but what we can say is that we have more

expected deaths in our hospital but that can have many factors

contributing. For instance, in our part of the country, we have no

Hospice in-patient beds so more people will come into the George

Eliot Hospital at the end of life than would elsewhere. So we also

take more emergency activity than planned activity which will

increase the risk and death rate within the hospital. Is that why

you preferred to use the expression "mortality indicators", because it

is not an exact science? You have to take account of the complexity

of challenging cases? That is correct and we have and we need a

debate which is mature. The mortality indicators give us a

general overall direction. It can be a smoke alarm but you have to

look at much more subtle indicators. Looking at all safety indicators

but also patients' stories. We need to get much more mature and rounded

debate about what people are saying. His Healthwatch, the Government's

vision for scrutiny on the ground, is that the answer -- is

Healthwatch? So scrutiny of hospitals is really important.

must listen to what patients are telling us. Nadhim, you are saying

this must never happen again, what to say about this? Calling a review,

does it heighten the MORI or give a -- height and the worry or give

people an idea that it is being looked at? I had a lady called

Gillian who set up a charity in my constituency called kissing it

better, a phenomenal idea because of its simplicity. They go into

hospitals and bring compassion back into the wards. Going in with drama

students or students who do hair and beauty, to be there with them

and talk to them, but one of the frustrations is bureaucracy gets in

the wake of what you have here a, sentence of an over-bureaucratic

system. Staff had suffered because of been counting. They cannot put

any part of the walls because of health and safety, that might not

be related to the performance of a hospital, it is the culture. It is

no longer human, compassionate that you are talking to patients, it is

all about paper-filling and targets. We need to bring that discretion

back into the hospitals and make them human again. In the meantime,

we are hearing from the police commissioner in Stafford among

others and local MPs, that prosecution should be brought after

Stafford and so far nothing has happened. What is your view of

these increasing demands? I agree with the demands and anybody who

read the recent report at what happened at Stafford will have a

chill in their spine. It is unacceptable but we must see this

in a wider context of the NHS in overall providing a good level of

care... Sorry, Patrick. Overall patient expectation levels are very

good. Should people be held to account would this in law, Nadhim?

Not a single person has been fired in this, it is amazing. People hide

behind all sorts of bureaucracy. Whistleblowers get trodden all over.

Yet this is disgraceful. That is about culture and it comes from

people covering their own backs. They believe that bureaucracy will

save them. That is wrong and need to be stamped out. You are hearing

the strength of opinion and it you are having to manage all these

issues while dealing with the pressure on budgets and reforms,

how is that going? I have worked in the NHS for over 25 years and by a

passionate about it and I am immensely proud of the people that

were within the NHS, the doctors and nurses. At the George Eliot

Hospital is a good local hospital providing good local services but

we need to be accountable to our population and what will come from

this inquiry is more accountability and that is correct. Good of you to

be with us, Kevin McGee. Now for our regular round-up of the

political week in the Midlands, as told by a BBC Hereford and

Legacy - what legacy? Birmingham taxpayers may have to stump up �8

million because of problems with an Olympic catering contract involving

a council-owned firm. Talks are taking place.

Taoiseach announcement that the Pope is resigning triggered

memories of his visit to Birmingham in 2010. All over the region, an

appreciation that he had come to us and that was a very special moment

for the city and its people. Pay up or get out. That is the

message from the owners of the Ricoh Arena to Coventry City. After

a row over unpaid rent which comes weeks after the council step in.

Were kiss have demonstrated over fears of the privatisation of

Telford's on a supply base. -- workers have demonstrated.

And Staffordshire is the first council in the region to take

overseas before off school and care home menus after the horsemeat

gamble. The council say it is a belt and

braces measure while tests are carried out. Politicians are

starting to play the blame game. Labour are blaming the Government

for being slow off the mark. The Conservatives are blaming the

supermarkets for being economical with the truth. Is it because that

both are correct? This scandal came to light on 15th January. The

Government has been set at the wheel and the Conservative chair of

the committee that shadows that Department for Environment and

rural affairs so that they had been caught flat-footed. At the same

time, Patrick... But Owen Paterson was in Brussels last week trying to

get European action rather than posturing. Why was he not on top of

this on 15th January? Why did it take him a mug to come to terms

with this? -- taking a month. The retailers are clearly the ones who

were clearly responsible even though the Government has some

responsibility for setting out the framework and regulation to make

sure this does not happen. impression is, Nadhim, the control

of the Food chain is out of control. If you start throwing names around,

Ed Miliband gave an interview to the Financial Times and laughed

food safety off as a joke so nobody saw this as a danger but where it

really does matter is the accountability of the food

processors and retailers. We did a scrutiny for the Ombudsman for

supermarkets and at the time the industry did not want one. And that

is why it is important to have an ombudsman. We must leave it there.

Thank you to Nadhim and Emma. We support to a story about top sports

stars refusing to compete in this country because of our tax laws and

it turns out somebody in authority must have been watching because the

regulations will be suspended next July's so they can appear at the