02/03/2014 Sunday Politics West Midlands

Morning folks. Welcome to the Sunday Politics.

Fears that Ukraine could face invasion escalate this morning as

Russian forces take control of Crimea. President Obama and his

European allies tell President Putin to back off. It doesn't sound like

he's listening. Shadow Education Secretary Tristram

Hunt has started spelling out Labour's plans for schools. So

what's the verdict - full marks, or must try harder? He joins us for the

Sunday Interview. And all the big political parties

are desperate to broaden their appeal. We'll look at some unusual

And in the Midlands, training for the trade. The towns and cities

lining up to come home for the and people deal with benefit

changes. And tightening household finances.

And with me, as always, three journalists who'd make a clean sweep

if they were handing out Oscars for political punditry in LA tonight.

But just like poor old Leonardo DiCaprio they've never won so much

as a Blue Peter badge! Yes, it's Nick Watt, Helen Lewis and Janan

Ganesh. Instead of acceptance speeches they'll be tweeting faster

than the tears roll down Gwyneth Paltrow's face. Yes, that's as

luvvie as we get on this show. Events have been moving quickly in

Ukraine this weekend. The interim government in Kiev has put the

Ukrainian military on full combat alert after Russia's parliament

rubber-stamped the deployment of Russian troops anywhere in Ukraine.

Russian troops seem already to be in control of the mainly

Russian-speaking Crimea region, where Russia has a massive naval

base. President Obama told President Putin that Russia has flouted

international law by sending in Russian troops but the Kremlin is

taking no notice. This is now turning into the worst stand-off

between Russia and the West since the conflict between Georgia and

Russia in 2008, though nobody expects any kind of military

response from the West. Foreign Secretary William Hague is on his

way to Kiev this morning to show his support for the new government,

though how long it will survive is another matter. We can speak to our

correspondent David Stern, he's in Kiev.

As things look from Kiev, can we take it they've lost Crimea, it is

now in all essence under Russian control? Yes, well for the moment,

Crimea is under Russian control Russian troops in unmarked uniforms

have moved throughout the peninsula taking up various positions, also at

the Ismis which links Ukraine into Crimea. They've surrounded Ukrainon

troops there. Three units have been captured according to a top

officials. We can say at the moment Russia controls the peninsula. It

should also be said, also they have the support of the ethnic Russian

population. The ethnic Russians make up the majority of the population.

They are also not entirely in control because there are other

groups, namely the Tatar as and the ethnic Ukrainian speakers who are at

least at the moment tacitly resisting. We'll see what they'll

start to do in the coming days. David, I'm putting up some pictures

showing Russian troops digging in on the border between Crimea and

Ukraine. I get the sense that is just for show. There is, I would

assume, no possibility that the Ukrainians could attempt to retake

Crimea by military force? It seems that the Ukrainians are weighing

their options right now. Their options are very limited. Any

head-to-head conflict with Russia would probably work against the

Ukrainians. They seem to be taking more of a long-term gain. They are

waiting for the figs's first move. They are trying not to create any

excuse that the Russians can stage an even larger incursion into Crimea

or elsewhere, for that matter. They also seem to be trying to get

international support. It should be said, this is a new Government. It

has only been installed this week. They are trying to gain their

footing. This is a major crisis They have to count on the loyalty of

the army they might have some resistance from solders from the

eastern part of the country who are Russian speaking. They probably

could count on Ukrainian speakers and people from the centre and west

of the country as well as regular Ukrainians. A lot of people are

ready to fight to defend Ukrainian Terre Tory. Where does the Kremlin

go next? They have Crimea to all intents and purposes. There's a weak

Government in Kiev. Do they move to the eastern side of Ukraine which is

largely Russian speaking and there's already been some unrest there?

That's the big question, that's what everybody's really asking now. Where

does this go from here? We've had some unrest in the eastern part of

the country. There have been demonstrations and clashes. More

ominously, there have been noises from the Kremlin they might actually

move into eastern Ukraine. Putin in his conversation with Barack Obama

said they might protect their interests there. It should be said,

if they do expand, in fact, they've also said they are dead against the

new Government seeing it as illegitimate and fascist. It does

contain risks. They will have to deal with international reactions.

America said there will be a deep reaction to this and it will affect

Russia's relations with Ukraine and the international community. They

have to deal with the reaction in Ukraine. This may unite Ukrainians

behind this new interim Government. Once Russia moves in, they will be

seen as an invading force. It plays on historical feelings of Russia

being an imperial force. Joining me is MP Mark Field who sits

on the security Security and Intelligence Committee in the House

of Commons. What should the western response be to these events? I can

understand why William Hague is going to Kiev tomorrow to stand side

by side whizz whoever's in charge. They need to CEOP sit numbers and

also President Putin. The truth is we are all co significant fatries to

the Budapest Memorandum of almost 20 years ago which was designed to

maintain the integrity of the Ukraine and Crimea. There needs to

be a discussion along those lines. The difficulty is President Putin

has watched events in recent months, in relation to Syria, it is palpable

President Obama's focus of attention ask the other side of the Pacific

rather than the Atlantic. The vote in the House of Commons, I was very

much against the idea of military action or providing weapons to the

free Syrian army. My worry is, events proved this, the majority of

the other options toed as sad are rather worse. It is clear now we are

in a constitutional mess in this country. We cannot even contemplate

military action without a parliamentary vote that moves

against quick reaction that is required from the executive or, I

suspect, there will be very little appetite for any military action

from the West over in Ukraine. We are corn tours under the agreement

of less than 20 years ago. We may be but we've guaranteed an agreement

which it is clear we haven't the power to enforce. You wrote this

morning, Britain is a diminished voice. Clams Iley navigating the

Syrian conflict we relick wished decisions to the whims of

parliamentary approval. That may or may not be but the Kremlin's not

watching how we voted on the Syrian issue? In relation to Syria, it was

where is the western resolve here. The truth ask Putin's position is

considerably less strong. In diplomatic terms. He had a victory

in Syria in relation to chemical weapons and in relation to the

West's relationship with Iran. Putin is a vital inter locking figure In

demographic and economic terms, Russia's in very deep trouble. The

oil price started to fall to any degree, oil and gas price, given the

importance of mineral wealth and exports for the Russian economy

Putin would be in a lot of trouble. It requires an engagement from the

EU and the EU are intending to look at their internal economic problems

and will be smarting from the failure within a matter of hours of

the deal they tried to broker only nine days' ago.

You say if Mr Putin decides to increase the stakes and moves into

the east, takes over the whole place, our Government, you say, will

find itself with another colossal international headache. Some people

watching this will be thinking, what's it got to do with us? It s a

long way away from Britain. We haven't a dog in this fight? We have

in this regard for the longer term here. I think if there were to be

some military action in Ukraine the sense of Russia taking over, it

could have a major impact on the global economy in very quick order.

You should not deny that. There will be move to have sanctions against

Russia. The escalation of that will be difficult. The other fact is

looking at our internal affairs and reform, partners, the Baltic states,

Finland, Poland, the Czech Republic, they will be looking at a resurgent

Russia now and think they'll need to hold as tightly as possible to the

EU institutions and the power of Germany at the centre of that. This

whole appetite for the reforms politically and economically will be

closed very much within a matter of a short period of time. It has

longer term implications. Mark Field, thank you.

We're joined now by BBC News night's Diplomatic Editor Mark Urban. Is

there any prospect of a western military response? Clearly at the

moment, it is nil. The boat has sailed with the Crimean. It has been

per performed by Russian forces It is now a matter of coordinating a

plate cal line. European foreign ministers tomorrow. To say what will

our future limits be? Where could we possibly draw red lines? To try to

think a couple of steps down this, what happens if Russia interrupts

energy supplies to EU member states ornate owe countries? These are the

important steps they have to think about. It is quite clear we are in a

different world here now. Also, Ukraine is facing a urgent foreign

exchange crisis. Within literally a few weeks they could run out of

money. All of these are rushing towards decision makers very fast.

There is an interim and I suggestion unstable Government in Kiev. Crimea

semi-to be under Russian control. There are clashes between the

reformers and Russian nationals in the east of the country. What does

Mr Putin do next? He has lots of options, of course. He has this

carte blanch carte blanch from his Parliament to go in to the rest of

Ukraine if he wants to. His military deployment suggests the one bite at

a time, just Crimea to start with. See what response comes from the

Ukrainian Government. Of course so far, there hasn't been a coherent

response. The really worrying thing about recent months, not just recent

days, are the indications that the future of Ukraine as a unitary state

is now in doubt. Look at it from the other side of the equation. The

President when faced with demonstrations, many extremists he

was unable to deal with that. Now we have the other side, if you like,

the Russian speakers, the other side of the fight, Russian nationalists

showing they can get away with unilateral action more or less with

impunity. The Ukrainian chiefs have been sacked. I think there are

considerable questions now as to whether Ukraine is falling apart

and, if that happens, we're into a Yugoslav-type situation which will

continue posing very serious questions for the EU and NATO for

months or years to come. So, Janan, Ukraine is over? Where the west to

concede to the Russian in Crimea, it would perversely be a net loss for

Russia. You'd assume the rest of Ukraine would become an un

unambiguously a member of the the EU, maybe NATO. On top of that a

Russian dream of Eurasion dream they will look at Putin's behaviour

and is a, no, thanks, we'll head towards the EU. It is a short-term

victory for Putin which backfires on his broader goals in Well, many

people said if he grabs Crimea, he loses Ukraine, which is your point.

We have seen violent demonstrations in the big eastern cities in Ukraine

yesterday. People taking control of certain buildings. The risk is there

of spreading beyond Crimea. I think the lack of any unified or visible

response from Ukrainian armed forces... They allowed Russian

troops to walk into the bases in Crimea. They have supposedly gone on

red alert but they have done absolutely nothing. We don't see

them deploying from barracks. There are serious questions about whether

they would just fall apart. Putin is not going to let them split away. I

would have thought he would like the entire Ukraine to come into the

Russian ambit. Barack Obama is saying this will not stand. He has a

90 minute conversation with Vladimir Putin and what is his response? I am

suspending my cooperation in the run-up to the Sochi Summit. What is

the EU doing? Nothing. There is nothing they can do and Putin knows

there are a series of lines that he is able to cross and get away with

it. Why should Berlin, London, Washington be surprised by the

strength of Vladimir Putin's reaction? It was never going to let

Ukraine just fall into the arms of the EU. That is the interesting

point. And who does he listen to? Paddy Ashdown was saying sent Angela

Merkel because she is the only person who can talk to him and I

find that response worrying. We need to speak with a united voice but

nobody knows what we should be saying. Military intervention is out

for the West so we go to economic sanctions. Doesn't Vladimir Putin

just say, oh, you want sanctions? I have turned off the gas tap. Yes, it

is move and countermove, and it is difficult to predict where it will

end up. In all these meetings that are being held, they do think a step

or two ahead and try and set out clear lines. Thank you for coming in

this morning. Labour has been struggling since

2010 to decide exactly how to take education secretary Michael Gove,

one of the boldest reformers of the coalition and most divisive figures.

Ed Miliband appointed TV historian Tristram Hunt and many thought

Labour had found the man to teach Michael Gove a lesson. But how much

do we really know about the party's plans for England's schools? Wales,

Scotland and Northern Ireland are a devolved matter. Child has been back

to school to find out. A politician once told me, do you know why

education secretaries changed schools? Because they can. Michael

Gove might dispute the motive but he is changing schools, like this one.

The changes he is ringing in our encouraging them to be academies,

free from local authorities to control their own budgets, ushering

in free schools, focusing on toughening exams and making them the

core of the curriculum with less coursework, and offering heads more

discretion on tougher discipline. And he is in a hurry to put all this

in place. But has that shut out any chance for a Labour Government to

change it all themselves and do they really want to? Any questions?

Visiting a different school, first in line to get a crack at that

would-be Labour's third shadow education secretary since 2010,

Tristram Hunt. In post, he has not been taken about fine tuning

previous direct opposition to free schools and he has also suggested

teachers in England would have to be licensed under a Labour Government,

allowing the worst to be sacked and offering training and development to

others and of course ending coalition plans to allow unqualified

teachers into classrooms. Full policy detail is still unmarked

work. Your opinion about evolution? What is very clear is that Labour's

education policy is still evolving. We are learning that they have some

clear water, but we also seem, from the sting at the back, to get the

feeling that there is not a great deal of difference from them and the

current Government on types of schools and the way education should

proceed. -- from listening at the back. So what exactly is different

about their policy? What Tristram Hunt's job is to do is to be open

and honest about the shared agenda between us and the Tories. There are

a lot of areas where there is clear water between us and Tristram Hunt

as to turn his back, shared agenda, stop fighting it, and forge our

agenda, which I think people will be really interested in. The art of

Government, of course, is to balance competing pictures of policy, even

inside your own party. It is fair to say that if Labour reflects and

draws its own visions of a shared agenda, it might have to square that

idea with teaching unions, who are already unhappy with the pace and

tone of change that the Government had sketched out. What we sincerely

hope is that if Labour were to form the next Government, that they would

look at a serious review of accountability measures. That is

really what ways on teachers every single day. Actually they would look

at restoring the possibility, for example, of local councillors to be

able to open schools. That seems eminently sensible. If they are not

going to move back from the free schools and academies programme at

the very least they need to say that academy chains will be inspected

because at the moment they are not. Labour have balls in the air on

education and are still throwing around precise policy detail. There

are areas that they could grab hold of and seize possession. A focus on

the rounding of the people, developing character, the impact of

digitalisation on the classroom Also the role and handling of

teachers in the system and the interdependence of schools. That is

all still to play for. Currently I think the difference between the

parties is that the coalition policies, while we do not agree with

all of them, are clear and explicit, and Labour's policies are yet to be

formulated in a way that everybody can understand clearly. I don't

think that Tristram Hunt or Miliband will want to pick unnecessary fights

before the election. I think we will have quite a red, pinkish fuzziness

around the whole area of policy but after the election there will be

grey steel from Tristram Hunt. But if fuzzy policy before the election

is the lesson plan, it does rather risk interested voters being left in

the dark. Tristram Hunt joins me now for the

Sunday interview. Welcome. Thank you. Which of Michael

Gove's school reforms would you repeal? We are not interested in

throwing a change for the sake of it. When I go round schools,

teachers have been through very aggressive changes in the last three

years, so when it comes to some of the curriculum reforms we have seen,

we are not interested in changing those for the sake of it. Where we

are interested in making change is having a focus on technical and

vocational education, making sure that the forgotten 15% is properly

addressed in our education system. What we saw in your package was an

interesting description of how we have seen structural reforms in the

names of schools. Academies, free schools, all the rest of it.

International evidence is clear that it is the quality of leadership of

the headteachers and the quality of teaching in the classroom that

transforms the prospects of young people. Instead of tinkering around

the names of schools, we focus on teacher quality. Viewers will be

shocked to note that this Government approves of unqualified teachers in

the classroom. We want to have fully qualified, passionate, motivated

teachers in the classroom. It sounds like you might not repeal anything.

You might build on it and you might go in a different direction, with

more emphasis on technological education but no major repeal of the

reforms of Michael Gove? I don't think you want to waste energy on

undoing reforms. In certain situations they build on Labour

Party policy. We introduced the sponsored academy programmes and we

began the Teach First programmes, and we began the London challenge

which transformed the educational prospects of children in London We

want to roll that out across the country. You have said there will be

no more free schools, which Michael Gove introduced, but you will allow

parents let academies, which just means free schools by a different

name. No, because they will be in certain areas. We want to create new

schools with parents. What we have at the moment is a destructive and

market-driven approach to education. I was in Stroud on

Thursday and plans for a big new school, in an area with surplus

places, threatened to destroy the viability of local, rural schools.

We want schools to work together in a network of partnership and

challenge, rather than this destructive market-driven approach.

You say that, but your version of free schools, I think, would only be

allowed where there is a shortage of places. That means that where there

is an excess of bad schools, parents will have no choice. They still have

to send their kids to bad schools. And we have to transform bad schools

and that was always the Labour way in Government. At the moment we just

have an insertion of new schools. Schools currently underperforming

are now underperforming even more. Children only have one chance at

education. What about their time in school? Our focus is on the

leadership of the headteacher and having quality teachers in the

classroom. So they cannot set up new better schools and they have to go

to the bad schools. Tony Blair said it should be easier for parents to

set up new schools where they are dissatisfied with existing schools.

You are not saying that. Even where they are dissatisfied with existing

schools, they cannot set up free schools and you are reneging on

that. We live in difficult economic circumstances where we have got to

focus public finances on the areas of absolute need. We need 250,0 0

new school places. 150,000 in London alone. We have to focus on building

new schools and where we have to put them. And secondly... Absolutely

not. Focusing on those schools. Making sure we turned them around,

just as we did in Government. We have had a remarkable degree of

waste under the free school programme. If you think of the free

school in Derby, the Academy in Bradford, and as we saw in the

Telegraph on Friday, the free schools in Suffolk, a great deal of

waste of public money on underperforming free schools. That

is not the Labour way. We focus on making sure that kids in schools at

the moment get the best possible education. Except that in your own

backyard, in Stoke, only 34% of secondary school pupils attend a

good or outstanding school. 148 out of 150 of the worst performing local

authorities and it is Labour-controlled. Still terrible

schools and yet you say parents should not have the freedom to start

a better school. We have great schools in Stoke-on-Trent as well.

We face challenges, just as Wolverhampton does and the Isle of

Wight and Lincolnshire. Just like large parts of the country. What is

the solution to that? Making sure we share excellence among the existing

schools and making sure we have quality leadership in schools. Those

schools in Stoke-on-Trent are all academies. It is not a question only

of structure but of leadership. It is also a question of going back to

the responsibility of parents to make sure their kids are school

ready when they get to school. To make sure they are reading to their

children in the evening. We can t put it all on teachers. Parents have

responsibilities. I understand that but you have told me Labour's policy

would not be to set up new schools which parents hope will be better.

Parents continue to send their kids to bad schools in areas like Stoke.

Labour has had plenty of time to sort out these schools in Stoke and

they are still among the worst performing in the country. You are

condemning these parents to having to send their kids to bad schools.

Where we have seen the sett ing up of Derby, Suffolk, we have seen that

is not the simple solution. Is simply setting up a new is not a

successful model. What works is good leadership. I was in Birmingham on

Friday at a failing comprehensive is not a successful model. What works

is good leadership. I was in Birmingham on Friday at a failing

comprehensive school and now people are queueing round the block to get

into it. You can turn around schools with the right leadership,

passionate and motivated teachers, and parents engaged with the

learning outcome of their kids. In the last few years of the Labour

Government, only four kids from your this Government would set up the new

school. In Birmingham, they got in a great headmaster and turned the

school around and now people are queueing round the block to get into

it. You can turnaround schools with the right leadership, passionate and

motivated teachers, and parents engaged with the learning outcome of

their kids. In the last few years of a Labour Government, only four kids

from your area of and you had plenty of chances to put this right but

only four got to the two and you had plenty of chances to put this right

but only four got to the two leading universities. Traditionally young

people could leave school at 16 and walking two jobs in the potteries,

the steel industry, the traditionally young people could

leave school at 16 and walking two jobs in the potteries, the steel

industry, the but also to get an apprenticeship at Jaguar Land

Rover, JCB, Rolls-Royce. That is why Ed Miliband's focus on the forgotten

15%, which we have just not seen from this Government, focusing on

technical and vocational pathways, is fundamental to Your headmaster

was guiles Slaughter. Was he a good teacher? He He never taught me.

Over 90% of teeners in the private sector are qualified. They look for

not simply teachers with qualified teacher status. Teachers with MAs.

Teachers who are improving them cephalitis. Becoming better

educators. cephalitis. Becoming better

teaching. You were taught by unqualified teachers. Your parents

paid over ?15,000 a year for you being taught by unqualified

teachers. Why did you make such a big deal of it? Because we've seen

right around the world those education systems which focus on

having the most qualified teachers perform the best. It cannot be right

that anyone can simply turn up, as at the moment, have schools at

veritising for unqualified teachers teaching in the classroom. We want

the best qualified teachers with the deepest subject knowledge, for the

passion in learning for their kids. It is absurd we are having arguments

about this. Simply having a paper qualification doesn't make you a

great teacher. Let me take you to Brighton college. It is gone from

the 147th to the 18 18th best private school in the land. Fllt the

headmaster says: This is the top Sundaytimes school

of the year. The school in derby where this Government allowed

unqualified teaching assist taints. We had teachers who could barely

speak English. That is because if you have unqualified teachers you

end up with a dangerous situation. The problem with that school was not

unqualified teachers. People were running that school who were unfit

to run a school. We have an issue about discipline and behaviour

management in some of our schools. Some of the skills teachers gain

through qualifications and learning is how to manage classes and get the

best out of kids at every stage It doesn't end with a qualified teacher

status. That's just the beginning. We want our teachers to have

continue it will development. It is not good enough to have your initial

teacher trainingaged work through your career for 30 years. You need

continual learning. Learning how to deal with digital technology.

Refresh your subject knowledge. As an historian I help teachers. You've

taught as an unqualified teacher. Not in charge of a subject group. I

give the odd lecture. I'm-y to go to as many schools as possible. I don't

blame you. It is uplifting. Would you sack all unqualified teachers?

We'd want them all to gain teacher status. What if they say no? If they

are not interested in improving skills and deepening their knowledge

they should not be in the classroom. If a free school or academy hired a

teach thinking they are a great teacher but unqualified, if they are

then forced by you to fire them, they will be in breach of the law.

They are being urged by us to make sure they have qualified teacher

status. We've lots of unqualified teachers as long as they are on the

pathway to making sure they are qualified. But if they say they

don't want to do this, will you fire them? It is not an unreasonable

suggestion is that the teachers in charge of our young people have

qualifications to teach and inspire our young people particularly when

we face global competition from Shanghai, Korea and so on. The head

teacher of Brighton college finds incredibly inspeechational teachers

who don't' necessarily have a teaching qualifications. It is a

different skill to teach ten young nice boys and girls in Brighton to

teaches 20 or 30 quids with challenging circumstances, special

educational needs, different ability. Being a teacher at Brighton

college is an easy gig in comparison to other schools. Where we want

teachers to have a capacity to teach properly. Do you think Tristram

could ever lead the Labour Party? I think Ed is a great leader, the

reforms yesterday were a real sign for his leadership. And the fact

David Owen, the man with a pre-history with our party is back

with us. It is great. Even Gideon had to change his name to George.

Have you thought of switching to Tommy or Tony? Maybe not Tony!

Michael Foot was called Dingle Foot. I love the Labour because it accepts

everybody from me to Len McCluskey. We are a big, broad happy family on

our way to Government. Thank you very much.

You're watching The Sunday Politics. We say goodbye to viewers in

Scotland who leave us for Sunday politics Scotland. In over 20

minutes lining up to come home for the ?20

million HS2 engineering college. lining up to come home for the ?20

Hello once again from the Midlands. I'm Patrick Burns. And we're in for

a real education here today. Education, higher and further than

we've ever been before. Tristram Hunt, Labour MP for Stoke`on`Trent

Central, is the Shadow Education Secretary. Paul Uppal, Conservative

MP for Wolverhampton South West, was Parliamentary Private Secretary to

the Universities Minister, David 'Two Brains' Willetts, before being

elevated to the Downing Street Policy Board. And Paul's an

honourable exception ` one of just six non`white MPs out of more than

60, representing a part of the country as diverse as ours. Afzal

Amin, the Conservative prospective candidate for Dudley North, and a

recent guest on this programme, is warning his party that it's still

seen as racist in areas of the Black Country where he grew up. In an

interview with the Huffington Post, the former Army officer says people

like him should be spoken to "as British people, not as people from

abroad", highlighting the Home Office's Go Home anti`illegal

immigration poster vans, as "a serious communication failure".

Labour's majority in Dudley North is just 649, but the Conservatives won

only 16% of Britain's ethnic minority vote at the last election.

On the face of it, he actually has a bit of a point. I think he made his

point. I don't entirely agree with him. You spoke about education. The

main difference I see between the parties... One of just three

Conservatives who are not white. I also represent Enoch Powell's old

seat. We have a new free school. I think we are actually engaging with

the immigrant communities in providing solutions. And Labour have

no more MPs than the Conservatives. For a little bit have to reflect

modern Britain in all its complexities. Parties need to be as

open as possible. I do think the government's Go Home poster vans

driving around established migrant communities was a real error. None

of us are completely virtuous in this field, we have all got more

work to do to reflect modern Britain and get talent into the parties. We

are talking about BME being black minority ethnic. They want to hear

their politicians speak about common`sense issues. The issues that

matter to non`white voters are the same as white voters. Job

opportunities, education and enterprise. 8% of voters in this

country, ethnic minorities. How will Parliament look in 2050 when that

accounts for 20% of the vote? Parliament must change to reflect

changing Britain. You often see areas of poverty within their thick

amenity as well and we have to reach out to that as well as white working

class areas. Still to come, can dissolution

really be the solution for Mid Staffordshire? Protesters are

planning legal action as hospital services are moved from Stafford and

Cannock to Walsall, Wolverhampton and Stoke. I'll be asking our Stoke

and Wolverhampton MPs here today how their respective hospitals can cope,

a little later. A couple of weeks ago we told you

how Stoke's Labour leaders are vying with their Conservative counterparts

in Crewe for a high`speed railway station. Now we can exclusively

reveal details of another bidding war over where a new ?20 million HS2

college should be established to train a new generation of engineers

to build and run the network. More on this from our BBC WM political

reporter Kathryn Stanczyszyn. Rail expertise in Birmingham. The

Centre for Rail Research and Education at Birmingham University

is one of the largest of its kind in the UK. We have an education

programme which is unrivalled in the UK and Europe, with about 100

Masters students at any one time, 50 doctoral students from next year,

undergraduate programmes which include a lot of engineering as

well. But now we could see more expertise like this coming from

Birmingham, with a brand new college to train the rail engineers who'll

build and maintain HS2. We've learned that nine further education

colleges in Greater Birmingham's Local Enterprise Partnership area

are working together on a proposal ` two in Worcestershire, two in South

Staffordshire, and five across Birmingham and Solihull, including

Birmingham Metropolitan. What we are keen to say is the message that we

want to give to Government is that, here in the Greater Birmingham area,

we can respond to the need and we can deliver all that's required to

actually get this fantastic development here in the city. On

Thursday, plans for the new HS2 station at Birmingham's Curzon

Street and surrounding developments were announced, bringing with them

14,000 jobs. A new college in the city is another part of the economic

plan. Birmingham will be associated around the world as being a centre

of HS2. What we have here is a once`in`a`lifetime opportunity to

create job opportunities for young learners which will see them through

their lifetime. The former LGV manufacturing site in Washwood Heath

has already marked as the location for a central maintenance depot.

Business leaders say it would be the most sensible place for a college.

You're going to have a train set to play with. So you go to college to

learn the skills, you can then come and apply them because the real`life

high`speed rail system will be on your doorstep. What is more perfect?

Industry observers say Birmingham has a very strong case for a

college. It's on the HS2 line, it's already been earmarked as a major

hub for the project and there is real engineering expertise in the

city but it does face stiff competition from places like

Manchester, Crewe, and Derby. It's thought there's a budget of around

?20 million for the college. So do the people in charge think that

Birmingham's got what it takes? It's accessible to a large number of

parts of the country so I think there are a number of things that

argue for Birmingham putting in a bid and obviously they will have to

then make their case compared with other cities, which I'm sure will be

interested as well. The Government will reveal more about the

competitive process for a new college later this month. The people

who want to bring it to Birmingham say they're on the right track.

Kathryn Stanczyszyn. And we're also joined here today by Jerry Marshall.

He's written a book, entitled Travels With An Inflatable Elephant,

which includes a lengthy chapter detailing his experiences as an

anti`HS2 campaigner. His opinion of the project may or may not have

something to do with the fact that his home at Burton Green in

Warwickshire is on the proposed route between Birmingham and London.

I am right on the line. But this is about national interest. We would be

better off but from the beginning this is about national interest. HS2

could trigger serious investment in further and higher education. You

must welcome that. I wish Birmingham well. ?20 million is peanuts

compared to the investment in HS2. I think it is strange to set up a

college for one project. The business Department say they have

set this up as a world leader, a potential export industry of

specialist expertise. Most of the world are closing their increasingly

bankrupt lines. We must look at the future and where we are falling

behind is in high`speed broadband. We are laughed at by Malaysian 's

who are way ahead of us. Sure, have a college but the HS2 idea is nuts.

It is something which is ?1000 for every man woman and child in the UK

and it does not meet their capacity needs. We could meet them in a much

cheaper way and it makes no business sense. But it could turn out to be

an expensive way of spending money efforts turns out that we have a new

generation of specialists along with the likes of Germany, Japan and

France, people who have high`speed lines, who have cutting`edge

experience and can compete on the international stage. I wish that

Birmingham had worked on the maglev idea. We will find that technology

has moved on and Japan will be the leaders in a completely different

type of technology. We have talked about people vying for the station

and are now about the college. Isn't it argument about who gets the

spoils of HS2? It comes down to the fact that it is complete nonsense.

Even the government say that it only generates ?1 40 benefit `` ?1.40 of

benefit for every ?1. If you save ten minutes, it becomes productive

and you don't spend ten minutes more in bed dash that is a nonsense. I

think this is a very exciting project for HS2. It subscribes to

Labour's vision. If you have big public works projects then you won't

skills and apprenticeships to come with them. You want a new station on

Stoke`on`Trent to come with it. Not only a new station but it diversion

of the line from Birmingham to Manchester. You must have more broad

results and skills for a piece of major public investment. It is said

that it is a poor reflection that these colleges are not already

sufficiently cooled up. `` tooled up. In essence, I come from a

construction background. If we go ahead with this, we need to the

skill sets to meet the need. I was at a local college and it has a long

history of engineering excellence. To continue that, this dovetails

quite neatly with the project. We are talking as if this project will

go ahead. We have heard about divisions in the Shadow Cabinet.

Let's ask the man in the Shadow Cabinet. The Labour Party is

committed. We have concerns about costs and Ed Balls is rigorous about

public finance but we are now looking at that period of

consultation about the line from Lichfield to Manchester and in

Stoke`on`Trent we have exciting propositions for that. We are a

broad church on many issues. But I think there is a consensus emerging

that, yes, it will probably go ahead. If we are going to have the

excellence of education which is the backbone of UK industry then I see

HS2 being central to that. Well, it's hands as though you are backing

a loser. Business demand for trains is declining. I saw only one person

on a peak`time train. Was that because you were in the carriage?

Good point! There is a problem with commuter trains to London and HS2

will not help. How's this for a couple of killer

facts? Half of Britain's manufactured exports originate in

the Midlands, according to the Business Secretary, Vince Cable.

It's a major reason why the economy here is predicted to grow at up to

6% this year, twice the UK average, according to the West Midlands

Economic Forum. Here's our business correspondent, Peter Plisner.

With places like Ironbridge ` the birthpace of the industrial

revolution in this region ` it's not surprising that the Midlands became

the workshop of the world. But where there was growth, there was also

decline, partly because many products traditionally were switch

to cheaper factories abroad. Nothing was safe ` not even well known

brands. There was uproar when production of HP sauce, made on this

site in Birmingham for more than 100 years, was moved to Holland. It was

a sad sight when the factory was demolished, leaving the all too

familiar derelict wasteland. It has been, traditionally, that

off`shoring has been about going to where labour costs are lower in

particular or energy costs are lower and when companies, overall, can

find a cheaper way of making something than here in the West

Midlands. But there's evidence that some manufacturing is returning to

the Midlands and order books here are also growing because of success

at companies like Jaguar Land Rover and JCB. Nationally, we are

expecting growth to be about 2.5% or 3% this year. And I think that the

West Midlands economy, given the surge in manufacturing and exports,

would probably be in the region of 5`6% this year. The Business

Secretary, Vince Cable, says the strong performance here is helping

the economy. If this recovery we are experiencing is going to be kept

going, and it must be for the sake of the country, it has got to be

export`based, it's got to be increasingly manufacturing`based,

and the West Midlands, more than any other part of the country, is going

to deliver that. And that means growth here must continue. And if

so, that should also mean more jobs and lower unemployment.

All very encouraging but we often, against the problem that the low

skills base in parts of the country really makes it increasingly

difficult to get the economic warmth through to the areas that you

represent. There is a challenge but it is exciting that we are seeing

production coming back to the UK from places like China and

Indonesia. How can young unemployed people compete for jobs? They have

to up skill. That is why we are excited by a Saran next skills

Academy. Major institutions supporting British business is part

of this. I always come here and see these marks on the table `` mugs and

they are not made in Britain. Your city, Wolverhampton, looks

increasingly disconnected from what we saw there. There is a real

history. We were talking about HS2. The chairman of HS2 talked about how

we up skill because for many years we have had people with engineering

skills but we have not had the constant stream of work. I visited

Jaguar Land Rover and the Prime Minister was also there and it is

crucial that everybody works together. Part of this as having

decent careers advice and the government has destroyed that. If we

want young people to pursue technical and vocational pathways

then they need to have that advice. Let's catch up with more of the

political developments making the news here over the past few days, in

60 seconds. It's brought to us this week by BBC Midlands Today's

Elizabeth Glinka. Lord Bilston has died at the age the

age of 71. As Dennis Turner, he was MP for Wolverhampton South East for

18 years. More local authority cuts have been

confirmed. ?20 million in Stoke, ?19 million in Coventry and, in

Warwickshire, councillors have voted to look at becoming a unitary

authority. The building phase of Birmingham's

new John Lewis store is complete. It's due to open next year as part

of the Grand Central redevelopment at New Street Station. The unique

thing about this shop, of course, is the connection to New Street

Station. That's not been done in any way by a John Lewis shop or, indeed,

by any department store anywhere in the country.

A direct train link from Shropshire to London could be on the timetable

by the end of this year. It comes after the original plan from Virgin

for a service from May hit the buffers.

And the trust which runs Stafford and Cannock hospitals is being

abolished. Neighbouring hospitals in Walsall, Wolverhampton and Stoke

will pick up some of the services. Campaigners are planning legal

action. We keep hearing that Wolverhampton,

the hospital which will be taking up the load from this, is fully

stretched as it is. I just want to pay tribute to Dennis Turner.

Smashing fellow. This is an issue which is absolutely paramount. There

has been a lot of discussion about Mid Staffs and we will have to look

at how this comes out in the wash. There are some issues about how this

will affect Wolverhampton. It is my job to make sure I speak to Jeremy

Hunt and the Prime Minister about that knock`on effect. Have they got

the scope to take it on? We are working on this. What about Stoke? I

will join in paying tribute to Dennis. In terms of the pressure

this could put on the provision we have in Stoke`on`Trent, we are

making missing representations. We can take up the flak, we have the

skills and capacity is but we have to make sure that local people's

health provision is not and firstly affected by this. Health is not a

competition. Everybody comes together and does their thing in the

NHS and that is what is so important about it. But it can look political

when you have constituent MP is fending off rival claims for up

other areas and defending their hospitals. This is the problem of

too much marketisation. The broader sense of duty and mission within the

NHS is so significant. How do we get a more wide strategy than just

beyond city limits? People assume it is just an issue of money. People

often want the best care but they also want their vocational passion

and bedside manner that you used to get from your GP and consultant.

Jeremy Hunt has said we should look again at the question of consultant

led maternity services being retained. Yes, and a case is being

made in Stafford about the number of live births. It seems there is some

dispute over the data. From Stoke`on`Trent's perspective, have

we got the resources and will we be able to provide that care? And

enormously challenging situation from the point of view of

Wolverhampton and Stoke`on`Trent. My thanks to Paul Uppal and Tristram

Hunt. A quick word about a programme coming up a little later today. The

Great Glass Mystery investigates the wartime disappearance of stained

glass from Coventry Cathedral. Was it stolen? Did it end up in Iceland?

The answers could prove embarrassing here at home and abroad. That's at

4.10 this afternoon, here on BBC One Midlands. This

Government to change it. Thank you both for being here. Andrew, back to

you. This week grant Shap said he wanted

to rebrand the Tories as the workers' party to show it can reach

out to blue-collar workers. One Conservative Party MP said they

should scrap what he said was their boring old logo. We asked him and

two other independent MPs how they'd freshen up their logos.

Aspiration's always been our core value. About helping people get on

with life. Giving people ladders of opportunity. That's why our symbol

must reflect our values of aspiration and why I'm calling for

our symbol to be changed from a tree to a ladder which symbolises social

mobility and stands up for everything conservatism represents.

I like an he will fanned, an animal that never forgets. We're the only

party which seems to remember what life was like before the NHS and

minimum wage and the global financial crash was caused by too

little regulation not too much. We have a leader who can spot the

elephant in the room, the lack of women on the Tory frontbench. The

republicans in America have had the same idea. Theirs is a suspicious

blue. Our would be deepest red. We love our Liberal Democrat bird. Mrs

Thatcher called it the dead parrot when we launched it. We won the

Eastbourne by-election off the Tories very soon aftered with.

Perhaps it feels like we're in a coalition cage but we're escaping

that soon. Why does it fly to the right? Most Liberal Democrats would

want it to fly to the left. I hope it will soon.

Interesting there. Let's stick with the Robert Hall pin one. He was

being serious. The others were fun. It is interesting that talking about

appealing to the blue collared vote, the upper working class, lower

middle class, curiously now neither Mr Cameron nor Mr Miliband has great

cut through with these people. But in wanting to be the Workers Party,

how do you square that with choosing five old Etonians to draw up four

next manifesto. Labour said one of the things was cutting inheritance

tax, after all their priorities they went to privilege rather than earned

income. Rebranding is not enough. The one question the modernisers

never asked themselves when they took party ten years ago is the

thing we know as the Conservative Party, salvageable as a brand? I'm

beginning to think it isn't. If you look at all public opinion research,

there are lots of people in this contrary with Conservative views.

They won't vote Tory or contemplate the possibility of voting Tory. Can

we get over the electoral problems by relaunching as a different

pro-business, pro-worker party. That means new name, new logo. It will

mean new people as well. If you say you're on the sides of what Thatcher

called the strivers, the people themselves want to see you have

strivers in the people who run your party so you know what we've been

through, the struggles we've had. How many of the six drawing up the

manifesto have had ever a mortgage. The one who's not an old Etonian

went to St Paul's. He's a day schoolboy! It is interesting and it

was funny you mentioned an elephant. Don't think of an elephant as the

title of that book. Calling it the Workers Party draws attention to the

Tories biggest electoral weakness. The idea they are a class apart Out

of touch. I think it is interesting, they have identified their elections

are won or lost by this particular demo graphic of the C 1, and C .

Mrs Thatcher got them by the shed load, Tony Blair got them. His

failure in 2010 is the reason David Cameron didn't win an overall

majority. I'm disappointed with the ladder. You should have a hammer or

sickle! The Conservatives have a terrible brand problem. You heard

them explaining why they did badly in the Wythenshawe by-election,

saying there's quite a large council estate there In 1961, I think the

Conservatives won a by-election back then, they were getting through to

those sort of voters. There is not a single Conservative councillor in

Manchester. They have this terrible problem. You're right for them to

pick up on the five Etonians writing their manifesto. David Cameron sir

rounding himself with his own. He doesn't have to do that. I seas

things like isn't Robert Halpen great. He decides and has his own.

He has some more slightly common people from St Paul's! One of the

ways the Conservatives hoped to broaden their appeal is the tougher

line on immigration. We learned net immigration is rising substantially.

Back up over 200,000. Nigel Farage of UKIP wrapped up the rhetoric In

scores of our cities and market towns, this country, in a short

space of time, has become N'Zonzi rkable whether it is --

unrecognisable. Whether it is the impact on local schools and

hospitals. In many parts of England you don't hear English spoken, this

is not the kind of the community we want to leave to our children and

grandchildren. Helen, maybe people, I assume, will love the sentiments.

Others will say, this is getting... It is going down a dangerous road.

Nigel Farage's wife is German and he shares a flat with Godfully Bloom,

nobody knows what he's saying half of the time. You can handle the

letters from Yorkshire. Alex Salmond does not make his case on Scotland

for the Scottish. Let's put aside whether the policy's right or wrong.

How bad, by the Tories own lights, is the fact the net figure for

immigration went up 60,000? It looks really bad. If I was a Tory

strategist, I'd be philosophical about it. Immigration, even if they

were meeting the target, I don't think the public would believe it.

It is like crime a few years ago, the crime rates had been declining

for the best part of 20 years but the fear of crime remains high.

There's such a degree of cynicism that regardless of your

administrative record in Government, the public will remain hostile to

you. This is where Nigel Farage can be potent. He said it is not about

numbers. It is about community. It is about people seeing their

communities change. And in the Sunday Telegraph, it was said this

isn't a dog whistle, a it is a meaty bone for a bull terrier. The problem

for the Government on these figures is we know why the net migration

figures are not looking good. They got down the non-EU figures but the

EU figures are going up. From Italy and Spain as their economies tanked,

people came here. If he hadn't made such a big deal of the numbers, the

Tories, I mean, you could present this as a huge success story. If you

believe immigration was good for the country. You would say it doesn t

matter what Labour says, the best and the brightest young people from

all over Europe are voting with their feet to come to Britain. But

you never hear that case being made and certainly not by Labour. They

acknowledge although immigration is best in the abstract for the

economy, people don't feel it in their daily lives. There's a huge

vacuum for the case where immigration should be in our public

life. I remember a time when the economy was in such decline there

was a rush to the door in the sixties and seventies. Now we are

claiming our economy's doing better than any of the other major

economies bar Germany, people want to join in our success. London was a

declining city until the mid-eighties. Theresa May cannot be

honest. She was proposing a cap on immigration. Not going to happen.

Today she is saying maybe people from poorer member states cannot

come in until their economies grow. That's future accession states.

That's Turkey in ten years' time It is causing divisions with the

coalition. She's bashing Vince Cable. You often see Liberal

Democrats bashing the Tories. You don't often see a Tory minister bash

Vince Cable. She does on the immigration figures. He thought they

were good news. Last week, Vince responded to the news by saying it

was a policy he was happy for the gift to flunk. The problem was going

for a cap. There are six moving parts. UK citizens leaving, coming

back. EU citizens leaving and coming back and then third party nationals.

And students coming to study. Of course. You only have control over

the EU citizens. Have you to clamp down on ace strayian, Chinese or

American graduates. They should have gone for the Australian points

system. I don't have a pure cap on numbers just background etc. Tim

Farran said in the European election either vogue Liberal Democrat or

UKIP. He turned that to his advantage. It is hopeful but he s

come up with a way to spin this Labour has his special conference.

Was it or was it not an event? Not sure it was the biggest moment in

the party since 1918. But things fell apart in the special conference

in 1981. 2004 got another special conference. Who's on board? David

Owen who founded the gang of four. He's not joined but he's given them

money. He's not going to sit with them in the Lord's. He's given

money. They lost the gang of four. Back comes David Owen. Not historic?

Why would he want it to be more significant than it was. There's a

tendency to see him taking the fight to his party. Why would he want

that? The fact it has not pleased Grant Shapps is not a test to see

whether this has worked. It has been described as an historic moment and

incremental of what John did. The trade union block voters disappeared

a long time ago. They still have 50% of the vote. But 2,000 of union

members voting for this guy has gone. It is a reform from 20 years

ago. Welcome but not historic. Ed Miliband's stored up trouble. Len

McCluskey wants a million new homes and answered to the benefit caps is

not reconcilable with the deficit reduction strategy. In five years'

time if there is a Labour Government it becomes very difficult. We should

keep an eye on it? Always. Labour Party process is never ending.

Unlike this programme. That's all from us today. Continuing reports of

events in the Ukraine on the BBC News Channel. There's no Daily

Politics tomorrow because of cover Arg of the Nelson Mandela memorial

service at Westminster Abbey on BBC Two live. We'll be back on the Daily

Politics on Tuesday at midday. We'll be back here next week with the Work

and Pensions Secretary, Ian Smith. If it is Sunday, it is the Sunday

Politics.