Browse content similar to 09/03/2014. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Morning, folks. Welcome to the Sunday Politics. | :00:36. | :00:43. | |
He's a man on a mission. But is it mission impossible? Iain Duncan | :00:44. | :00:46. | |
Smith has started the radical reform of our welfare state. No tall order. | :00:47. | :00:50. | |
And not everything's going to plan. We'll be talking to the man himself. | :00:51. | :00:55. | |
Nick Clegg's hosting his party's spring conference in York. He's | :00:56. | :00:58. | |
getting pretty cosy with the party faithful. Not so cosy, though, with | :00:59. | :01:02. | |
his Coalition partners. In fact, things are getting a wee bit nasty. | :01:03. | :01:06. | |
We'll be talking to his right-hand man, Danny Alexander. | :01:07. | :01:10. | |
And are all politicians self-obsessed? Don't all shout at | :01:11. | :01:13. | |
once. We'll be examining And have been campaigning for their | :01:14. | :01:21. | |
hospitals. The In London, we're focusing on the | :01:22. | :01:27. | |
biggest social housing landlords. Can Southwark Council really build | :01:28. | :01:30. | |
11,000 new homes in the next three decades? | :01:31. | :01:35. | |
And with me, as always, three of the best and the brightest political | :01:36. | :01:41. | |
panel in the business. At least that's what it says in the Sunday | :01:42. | :01:44. | |
Politics template. Back from the Oscars empty handed, Helen Lewis, | :01:45. | :01:49. | |
Janan Ganesh and Iain Martin. Yes, three camera-shy hacks, who've never | :01:50. | :01:52. | |
taken a selfie in their life. We'll be coming to that later. They just | :01:53. | :01:56. | |
like to tweet. And they'll be doing so throughout the programme. | :01:57. | :01:57. | |
Welcome. Now, first this morning, the Liberal | :01:58. | :02:03. | |
Democrat Spring Conference in York. I know you speak of nothing else! | :02:04. | :02:06. | |
The Yorkshire spring sunshine hasn't made the Lib Dems think any more | :02:07. | :02:10. | |
kindly of their Coalition partners. Indeed, Tory bashing is now the Lib | :02:11. | :02:14. | |
Dem default position. Here's Danny Alexander speaking yesterday. | :02:15. | :02:20. | |
Repairing the economy on its own isn't enough. We have to do it | :02:21. | :02:21. | |
fairly. isn't enough. We have to do it | :02:22. | :02:31. | |
the agenda a decision to cut taxes, income taxes, for working people. | :02:32. | :02:36. | |
Now, conference, note that word - forced. We have had to fight for | :02:37. | :02:41. | |
this at the last election and at every budget and at every Autumn | :02:42. | :02:45. | |
Statement since 2010 and what a fight it has been. | :02:46. | :02:53. | |
Danny Alexander joins us now. Are we going to have to suffer 14 months of | :02:54. | :02:59. | |
you and your colleagues desperately trying to distance yourself from the | :03:00. | :03:03. | |
Tories? It's not about distancing ourselves. It's about saying, " this | :03:04. | :03:08. | |
is what we as a party have achieved in government together with the | :03:09. | :03:15. | |
Conservatives". And saying, " this is what our agenda is for the | :03:16. | :03:19. | |
future" . It's not just about the fact that this April we reach that | :03:20. | :03:24. | |
?10,000 income tax allowance that we promised in our manifesto in 20 0 | :03:25. | :03:29. | |
but also that we want to go further in the next parliament and live that | :03:30. | :03:36. | |
to ?12,500, getting that over a 2-term Liberal Democrat government. | :03:37. | :03:39. | |
It's very important for all parties to set out their own agenda, ideas | :03:40. | :03:44. | |
and vision for the future, whilst also celebrating what we're | :03:45. | :03:47. | |
achieving jointly in this Coalition, particularly around the fact that we | :03:48. | :03:51. | |
are, having taken very difficult decisions, seeing the economy | :03:52. | :03:57. | |
improving and seeing jobs creation in this country, which is something | :03:58. | :04:01. | |
I'm personally very proud and, as the Coalition, we have achieved and | :04:02. | :04:04. | |
wouldn't have if it hadn't been for the decisions of the Liberal | :04:05. | :04:09. | |
Democrats. Lets try and move on You've made that point about 50 | :04:10. | :04:13. | |
times on this show alone. You now seem more interested in Rowling with | :04:14. | :04:16. | |
each other than running the country, don't you? -- rowing with each | :04:17. | :04:24. | |
other. I think we are making sure we take the decisions, particularly | :04:25. | :04:29. | |
about getting our economy on the right track. Of course, there are | :04:30. | :04:33. | |
lots of things where the Conservatives have one view of the | :04:34. | :04:38. | |
future and we have a different view and it's quite proper that we should | :04:39. | :04:42. | |
set those things out. There are big differences between the Liberal | :04:43. | :04:43. | |
Democrats and the Conservatives just as there were big differences | :04:44. | :04:47. | |
between the Liberal Democrats and the Labour Party. I believe we're | :04:48. | :04:51. | |
the only party that can marry that commitment delivering a strong | :04:52. | :04:55. | |
economy, which Labour can't do, and that commitment to delivering a | :04:56. | :04:58. | |
fairer society, which the Tories can't be trusted to do by | :04:59. | :05:02. | |
themselves. You are going out of your way to pick fights with the | :05:03. | :05:05. | |
Tories at the moment. It's a bit like American wrestling. It is all | :05:06. | :05:10. | |
show. Nobody is really getting hurt. I've been compared to many things | :05:11. | :05:13. | |
but an American wrestler is a first! I don't see it like that It | :05:14. | :05:20. | |
is right for us as a party to set out what we've achieved and show | :05:21. | :05:25. | |
people that what we promised on 2010 on income tax cuts is what this | :05:26. | :05:31. | |
government is delivering. But nobody seems convinced by these | :05:32. | :05:34. | |
manufactured rows with the Tories. You've just come last in a council | :05:35. | :05:39. | |
by-election with 56 votes. You were even bitten by an Elvis | :05:40. | :05:44. | |
impersonator! Yes, that is true -- beaten. I could equally well quote | :05:45. | :05:54. | |
council by-elections that we've won recently, beating Conservatives the | :05:55. | :06:00. | |
Labour Party and UKIP. Our record on that is pretty good. You can always | :06:01. | :06:03. | |
pick one that shows one or other party in a poor light. Our party is | :06:04. | :06:07. | |
having real traction with the electric and the places where we | :06:08. | :06:11. | |
have a real chance of winning. If you're not an American wrestler | :06:12. | :06:14. | |
maybe you should be an Elvis impersonator! You told your spring | :06:15. | :06:19. | |
forum... You don't want to hear me sing! You want to raise the personal | :06:20. | :06:25. | |
allowance to ?12,500 in the next Parliament. Will you refuse to enter | :06:26. | :06:29. | |
into Coalition with any party that won't agree to that? What I said | :06:30. | :06:34. | |
yesterday is that this will be something which is a very high | :06:35. | :06:39. | |
priority for the Liberal Democrats. It's something that we will very | :06:40. | :06:43. | |
much seek to achieve if we are involved... We know that - will it | :06:44. | :06:50. | |
be a red line? If you are a number in 2010, on the front page of our | :06:51. | :06:55. | |
manifesto, we highlighted four policies... I know all that. Will it | :06:56. | :07:00. | |
be a red line? It will be something that is a very high priority for the | :07:01. | :07:05. | |
Liberal Democrats to deliver. For the fifth time, will it be a red | :07:06. | :07:11. | |
line? It will be, as I said, a very high priority for the Liberal | :07:12. | :07:13. | |
Democrats in the next Parliament. That's my language. We did that in | :07:14. | :07:18. | |
the next election. The number-1 promise on our manifesto with a | :07:19. | :07:22. | |
?10,000 threshold and we've delivered that in this Parliament. | :07:23. | :07:25. | |
People can see that when we say something is a top priority, we | :07:26. | :07:32. | |
deliver it. Is it your claim... Are you claiming that the Tories would | :07:33. | :07:35. | |
not have raised the starting point of income tax if it hadn't been for | :07:36. | :07:41. | |
the Liberal Democrats? If you remember back in the leaders' | :07:42. | :07:43. | |
debates in the 2010 election campaign, Nick Clegg was rightly | :07:44. | :07:48. | |
championing this idea and David Cameron said it couldn't be | :07:49. | :07:54. | |
afforded. Each step of the way in the Coalition negotiations within | :07:55. | :07:59. | |
government, we've had to fight for that. The covert overtures have | :08:00. | :08:03. | |
other priorities. -- the Conservatives. I don't want to go | :08:04. | :08:08. | |
back into history. I'd like to get to the present. Have the | :08:09. | :08:12. | |
Conservatives resisted every effort to raise the starting point of | :08:13. | :08:18. | |
income tax? As I said, we promised this in 2010, they said it couldn't | :08:19. | :08:22. | |
be done. We've made sure it was delivered in the Coalition. Have | :08:23. | :08:27. | |
they resisted it? We've argued for big steps along the way and forced | :08:28. | :08:31. | |
it on to the agenda. They've wanted to deliver other things are so we've | :08:32. | :08:40. | |
had to fight for our priority.. Did the Conservatives resist every | :08:41. | :08:45. | |
attempt? It has been resisted, overall the things I'm talking | :08:46. | :08:48. | |
about, by Conservatives, because they have wanted to deliver other | :08:49. | :08:52. | |
things and, of course, in a Coalition you negotiate. Both | :08:53. | :08:57. | |
parties have their priorities. Our priority has been a very consistent | :08:58. | :09:01. | |
one. Last year, they were arguing about tax breaks for married | :09:02. | :09:05. | |
couples. They were arguing in 2 10 for tax cuts for millionaires. Our | :09:06. | :09:12. | |
priority in all these discussions has been a consistent one, which is | :09:13. | :09:15. | |
to say we want cutbacks for working people. -- we want to cut tax for | :09:16. | :09:23. | |
working people. That has been delivered by both parties in the | :09:24. | :09:27. | |
Coalition government full top So what do you think when the Tories | :09:28. | :09:31. | |
take credit for it? I understand why they want to try to do that. Most | :09:32. | :09:35. | |
people understand what we have just said. Not if the polls are to be | :09:36. | :09:43. | |
believed... You're under 10%. This is one of the things, when I talk to | :09:44. | :09:51. | |
people, but I find they know that the Lib Dems have delivered in | :09:52. | :09:54. | |
government. People know we promised it in 2010 and we're the ones who | :09:55. | :09:58. | |
forced this idea onto the agenda in our election manifesto. You've said | :09:59. | :10:02. | |
that five times in this interview alone. The reality is, this is now a | :10:03. | :10:10. | |
squabbling, loveless marriage. We're getting bored with all your tests, | :10:11. | :10:14. | |
the voters. Why don't you just divorced? -- all your arguments I | :10:15. | :10:22. | |
don't accept that. On a lot of policy areas, the Coalition | :10:23. | :10:24. | |
government has worked very well together. We're delivering an awful | :10:25. | :10:28. | |
lot of things that matter to this country. Most importantly, the mess | :10:29. | :10:32. | |
that Labour made of the economy we are sorting out. We are getting our | :10:33. | :10:36. | |
finances on the right track, making our economy more competitive, | :10:37. | :10:40. | |
creating jobs up and down this country, supporting businesses to | :10:41. | :10:43. | |
invest in growth. That is what this Coalition was set up to do, what it | :10:44. | :10:48. | |
is delivering, and both myself and George Osborne are proud to have | :10:49. | :10:50. | |
worked together to deliver that record. Danny Alexander, thanks for | :10:51. | :10:55. | |
that. Enjoyed York. Helen, is anybody listening? I do worry that | :10:56. | :11:01. | |
another 40 months of this might drive voter apathy up to record | :11:02. | :11:05. | |
levels. There is a simple answer to why they don't divorced - it's the | :11:06. | :11:12. | |
agreement that Parliament will last until 2015. MPs are bouncing around | :11:13. | :11:15. | |
Westminster with very little to do. They are looking for things to put | :11:16. | :11:20. | |
in the Queen's Speech and we are going to have rocks basically the 40 | :11:21. | :11:23. | |
months and very little substantial difference in policies. Do you | :11:24. | :11:28. | |
believe Danny Alexander when he says there would have been no rise in the | :11:29. | :11:32. | |
starting rate of income tax if not for the Lib Dems? He's gilding the | :11:33. | :11:37. | |
lily. If you look back at papers are written in 2001 suggesting precisely | :11:38. | :11:45. | |
this policy, written by a Tory peer, you see there are plenty of Tories | :11:46. | :11:50. | |
which suggest there would have been this kind of move. I can see why | :11:51. | :11:56. | |
Danny Alexander needs to do this and they need to show they've achieved | :11:57. | :11:59. | |
something in government because they are below 10% in the polls and | :12:00. | :12:03. | |
finding it incredibly difficult to get any traction at all. The other | :12:04. | :12:09. | |
leg of this Lib Dem repositioning is now to be explicitly the party of | :12:10. | :12:14. | |
Europe and to be the vanguard of the fight to be all things pro-Europe. | :12:15. | :12:20. | |
Mr Clegg is going to debate Nigel Farage in the run-up to the European | :12:21. | :12:24. | |
elections. If, despite that, the Lib Dems come last of the major parties, | :12:25. | :12:50. | |
doesn't it show how out of touch different. They are targeting a | :12:51. | :12:55. | |
section of the electorate who are a bit more amenable to their views | :12:56. | :12:59. | |
than the rest. They wouldn't get 20% of the vote. They are targeting that | :13:00. | :13:04. | |
one section. They have to do disproportionately well amongst | :13:05. | :13:07. | |
those and it will payoff and they will end up with something like 15%. | :13:08. | :13:11. | |
How many seats will the Lib Dems losing the next election? Ten. 0. | :13:12. | :13:22. | |
15. Triangulation! We'll keep that on tape and see what actually | :13:23. | :13:27. | |
happens! The Work and Pensions Secretary Iain | :13:28. | :13:30. | |
Duncan Smith is a man on a mission. He's undertaken the biggest overhaul | :13:31. | :13:34. | |
in our welfare state since it was invented way back in the | :13:35. | :13:36. | |
black-and-white days of the late 1940s. A committed Roman Catholic, | :13:37. | :13:42. | |
he's said he has a moral vision to reverse the previous welfare system, | :13:43. | :13:45. | |
which he believes didn't create enough incentive for people to work. | :13:46. | :13:50. | |
But are his reforms working? Are they fair? As he bitten off more | :13:51. | :13:54. | |
than he can chew? In a moment, we'll speak to the man himself but first, | :13:55. | :13:58. | |
here's Adam. Hackney in north London and we're on | :13:59. | :14:02. | |
the road with the man who might just be the most ambitious welfare | :14:03. | :14:06. | |
secretary there's ever been. It s a journey that started in the wind and | :14:07. | :14:10. | |
rain on a Glasgow council estate 12 years ago when he was Tory leader. | :14:11. | :14:14. | |
He came face-to-face with what it meant to be poor. A selection of | :14:15. | :14:19. | |
teddy bears. It's where he discovered his recipe for reform, | :14:20. | :14:23. | |
according to one of the advisers who was with him. There are things that | :14:24. | :14:28. | |
if you do get a job, keep your family together, stay off drugs and | :14:29. | :14:35. | |
alcohol, make sure you have a proper skill - that's what keeps you of | :14:36. | :14:40. | |
poverty. He, very ambitiously, wants to redefine the nature of what it | :14:41. | :14:43. | |
means to be poor and how you get away from poverty. Back in north | :14:44. | :14:49. | |
London, he's come to congratulate the troops on some good news. In | :14:50. | :14:53. | |
this borough, the number of people on job-seeker's allowance has gone | :14:54. | :14:57. | |
down by 29% in the last year, up from around 1700 to around 1200 But | :14:58. | :15:04. | |
the picture in his wider changes to the welfare state is a bit more | :15:05. | :15:09. | |
mixed. A cap on the total amount of benefits a family can get, of | :15:10. | :15:14. | |
?26,000 a year, is hugely popular but there have been howls of protest | :15:15. | :15:17. | |
over cuts to housing benefit, labelled the bedroom tax by some. | :15:18. | :15:24. | |
Protests, too, about assessments for people on disability benefits, | :15:25. | :15:25. | |
inherited from the previous government. Iain Duncan Smith has | :15:26. | :15:30. | |
been accused of being heartless and the company doing them, Atos, has | :15:31. | :15:35. | |
pulled out. And then the big one - and universal credit, a plan to roll | :15:36. | :15:39. | |
six benefits into one monthly payment, in a way designed to ensure | :15:40. | :15:44. | |
that work always pays. Some of the IT has been written off and the | :15:45. | :15:48. | |
timetable seems to be slipping. Outside the bubble of the | :15:49. | :15:52. | |
stage-managed ministerial trip, a local Labour MP reckons he's bitten | :15:53. | :15:57. | |
off more than he can chew. The great desire is to say, " let's have one | :15:58. | :16:02. | |
simple one size fits all approach" . And there isn't one size of person | :16:03. | :16:06. | |
or family out there. People need to change and they can challenge on the | :16:07. | :16:10. | |
turn of a penny almost. One minute they are doing the right thing, | :16:11. | :16:14. | |
working hard. Next minute, they need a level of support and if this | :16:15. | :16:17. | |
simple system doesn't deliver that for them, they're in a difficult | :16:18. | :16:21. | |
position. And that's the flying visit to the front line finished. He | :16:22. | :16:28. | |
does not like to hang about and just as well do - his overhaul of the | :16:29. | :16:32. | |
entire benefits system still has quite a long way to go. And Iain | :16:33. | :16:41. | |
Duncan Smith joins me now. Before I come onto the interview on welfare | :16:42. | :16:45. | |
reform, is Danny Alexander right when he claims the Lib Dems had to | :16:46. | :16:52. | |
fight to get the Tories to raise the income tax threshold? That is not my | :16:53. | :16:57. | |
recollection of what happened. These debates took place in the | :16:58. | :17:02. | |
Coalition. The Conservatives are in favour of reducing the overall | :17:03. | :17:07. | |
burden of taxation, so the question was how best do we do it? The | :17:08. | :17:12. | |
conversation took place, they were keen on raising the threshold, there | :17:13. | :17:17. | |
were also other ways of doing it but it is clear from the Conservatives | :17:18. | :17:22. | |
that we always wanted to improve the quality of life of those at the | :17:23. | :17:26. | |
bottom so raising the threshold fit within the overall plan. If it was a | :17:27. | :17:32. | |
row, it was the kind of row you have over a cup of tea round the | :17:33. | :17:41. | |
breakfast table. We have got a lot to cover. There are two criticisms | :17:42. | :17:48. | |
mainly of what you are doing - will they work, and will they be fair? | :17:49. | :17:54. | |
Leslie Roberts, one of our viewers, wants to know why so much has | :17:55. | :17:59. | |
already been written off due to failures of the universal credit | :18:00. | :18:02. | |
system even though it has been barely introduced. Relatively it has | :18:03. | :18:10. | |
been a ?2 billion investment project, in the private sector | :18:11. | :18:18. | |
programmes are written off regularly at 30, 40%. The IT is working, we | :18:19. | :18:24. | |
are improving as we go along, the key thing is to keep your eye on the | :18:25. | :18:28. | |
parts that don't work and make sure they don't create a problem for the | :18:29. | :18:38. | |
programme. 140 million has been wasted! The 40 million that was | :18:39. | :18:42. | |
written off was just do with security IT, and I took that | :18:43. | :18:47. | |
decision over a year and a half ago so the programme continued to roll | :18:48. | :18:52. | |
out. Those figures include the standard right down, the aggregation | :18:53. | :19:03. | |
of cost over a period of time. The computers were written down years | :19:04. | :19:08. | |
ago but they continue to work now. Universal credit is rolling out we | :19:09. | :19:12. | |
are doing the Pathfinders and learning a lot but I will not ever | :19:13. | :19:16. | |
do this again like the last government, big band launches, you | :19:17. | :19:27. | |
should do it phrase by phrase. Even your colleague Francis Maude says | :19:28. | :19:30. | |
the implementation of universal credit has been pretty lamentable. | :19:31. | :19:36. | |
He was referring back to the time when I stopped that element of the | :19:37. | :19:43. | |
process and I agreed with that. I intervened to make the changes. The | :19:44. | :19:47. | |
key point is that it is rolling out and I invite anyone to look at where | :19:48. | :19:54. | |
it is being rolled out to. You were predicting that a million people | :19:55. | :19:58. | |
would be an universal credit, this is the new welfare credit which | :19:59. | :20:02. | |
rolls up six existing welfare benefits and you were predicting a | :20:03. | :20:08. | |
million people would be on it by April, well it is March and only | :20:09. | :20:19. | |
3200 are on it. I changed the way we rolled it out and there was a reason | :20:20. | :20:23. | |
for that. Under the advice of someone we brought from outside he | :20:24. | :20:29. | |
said that you are better rolling it out slower and gaining momentum | :20:30. | :20:33. | |
later on. On the timetables for rolling out we are pretty clear that | :20:34. | :20:37. | |
it will roll out within the timescale is originally set. We will | :20:38. | :20:41. | |
roll it out into the Northwest so that we replicate the north and the | :20:42. | :20:47. | |
Northwest, recognise how it works properly. You will not hit 1 million | :20:48. | :20:55. | |
by April. I have no intention of claiming that, and it is quite | :20:56. | :20:58. | |
deliberate because that is the wrong thing to do. We want to roll it out | :20:59. | :21:04. | |
carefully so we make sure everything about it works. There are lots of | :21:05. | :21:08. | |
variables in this process but if you do it that way, you will not end up | :21:09. | :21:13. | |
with the kind of debacle where in the past something like ?28 billion | :21:14. | :21:18. | |
worth of IT programmes were written off. ?38 billion of net benefits, | :21:19. | :21:27. | |
which is exactly what the N a O Z, so it is worth getting it right | :21:28. | :21:33. | |
William Grant wants to know, when will the universal credit cover the | :21:34. | :21:39. | |
whole country? By 2016, everybody who is claiming one of those six | :21:40. | :21:43. | |
benefits will be claiming universal credit. Some and sickness benefits | :21:44. | :21:52. | |
will take longer to come on because it is more difficult. Many of them | :21:53. | :21:57. | |
have no work expectations on them, but for those on working tax | :21:58. | :22:01. | |
credits, on things like job-seeker's allowance, they will be making | :22:02. | :22:07. | |
claims on universal credit. Many of them are already doing that now | :22:08. | :22:12. | |
there are 200,000 people around the country already on universal credit. | :22:13. | :22:19. | |
You cannot give me a date as to when everybody will be on it? 2016 is | :22:20. | :22:28. | |
when everybody claiming this benefit will be on, then you have to bring | :22:29. | :22:34. | |
others and take them slower. Universal credit is a big and | :22:35. | :22:39. | |
important reform, not an IT reform. The important point is that it will | :22:40. | :22:44. | |
be a massive cultural reform. Right now somebody has to go to work and | :22:45. | :22:50. | |
there is a small job out there. They won't take that because the way | :22:51. | :22:53. | |
their benefits are withdrawn, it will mean it is not worth doing it. | :22:54. | :22:58. | |
Under the way we have got it in the Pathfinders, the change is | :22:59. | :23:02. | |
dramatic. A job-seeker can take a small part time job while they are | :23:03. | :23:06. | |
looking for work and it means flexibility for business so it is a | :23:07. | :23:12. | |
big change. Lets see if that is true because universal credit is meant to | :23:13. | :23:17. | |
make work pay, that is your mantra. Let me show you a quote Minister in | :23:18. | :23:24. | |
the last -- in the last Tory conference. It | :23:25. | :23:47. | |
has only come down to 76%. Actually form own parents, before they get to | :23:48. | :23:53. | |
the tax bracket it is well below that. That is a decision the | :23:54. | :23:58. | |
Government takes about the withdrawal rate so you can lower | :23:59. | :24:04. | |
that rate or raise it. And do your reforms, some of the poorest | :24:05. | :24:08. | |
people, if they burn an extra pound, will pay a marginal rate of | :24:09. | :24:20. | |
76%. -- if they earn an extra pound. The 98% he is talking about is a | :24:21. | :24:25. | |
specific area to do with lone parents but there are specific | :24:26. | :24:32. | |
compound areas in the process that mean people are better off staying | :24:33. | :24:37. | |
at home then going to work. They will be able to identify how much | :24:38. | :24:41. | |
they are better off without needing to have a maths degree to figure it | :24:42. | :24:46. | |
out. They are all taken away at different rates at the moment, it is | :24:47. | :24:52. | |
complex and chaotic. Under universal credit that won't happen, and they | :24:53. | :24:57. | |
will always be better off than they are now. Would you work that bit | :24:58. | :25:03. | |
harder if the Government was going to take away that portion of what | :25:04. | :25:12. | |
you learned? At the moment you are going to tax poor people at the same | :25:13. | :25:18. | |
rate the French government taxes billionaires. Millions will be | :25:19. | :25:23. | |
better off under this system of universal credit, I promise you and | :25:24. | :25:27. | |
that level of withdrawal then becomes something governments have | :25:28. | :25:33. | |
to publicly discussed as to whether they lower or raise it. But George | :25:34. | :25:39. | |
Osborne wouldn't give you the extra money to allow for the taper, is | :25:40. | :25:45. | |
that right? The moment somebody crosses into work under the present | :25:46. | :25:50. | |
system, there are huge cliff edges, in other words the immediate | :25:51. | :25:53. | |
withdrawal makes it worse for them to go into work than otherwise. If | :25:54. | :25:59. | |
he had given you more money, you could have tapered it more gently? | :26:00. | :26:09. | |
Of course, but the Chancellor can always ultimately make that | :26:10. | :26:12. | |
decision. These decisions are made by chancellors like tax rates, but | :26:13. | :26:19. | |
it would be much easier under this system for the public to see what | :26:20. | :26:24. | |
the Government chooses as its priorities. At the moment nobody has | :26:25. | :26:29. | |
any idea but in the future it will be. Under the Pathfinders, we are | :26:30. | :26:35. | |
finding people are going to work faster, doing more job searches and | :26:36. | :26:40. | |
more likely to take work under universal credit. Public Accounts | :26:41. | :26:47. | |
Committee said this programme has been worse than doing nothing, for | :26:48. | :26:55. | |
the long-term credit. It has not been a glorious success, has it | :26:56. | :27:03. | |
That is wrong. Right now the work programme is succeeding, more people | :27:04. | :27:08. | |
are going to work, somewhere in the order of 500,000 people have gone | :27:09. | :27:12. | |
back into work as a result of the programme. Around 280,000 people are | :27:13. | :27:18. | |
in a sustained work over six months. Many companies are well | :27:19. | :27:22. | |
above it, and the whole point about the work programme is that it is | :27:23. | :27:27. | |
setup so that we make the private sector, two things that are | :27:28. | :27:30. | |
important, there is competition in every area so that people can be | :27:31. | :27:36. | |
sucked out of the programme and others can move in. The important | :27:37. | :27:42. | |
point here as well is this, that actually they don't get paid unless | :27:43. | :27:46. | |
they sustain somebody for six months of employment. Under previous | :27:47. | :27:51. | |
programmes under the last government, they wasted millions | :27:52. | :27:55. | |
paying companies who took the money and didn't do enough to get people | :27:56. | :28:00. | |
into work. The best performing provider only moved 5% of people off | :28:01. | :28:06. | |
benefit into work, the worst managed only 2%. It is young people. That | :28:07. | :28:15. | |
report was on the early first months of the work programme, it is a | :28:16. | :28:20. | |
two-year point we are now and I can give you the figures for this. They | :28:21. | :28:25. | |
are above the line, the improvement has been dramatic and the work | :28:26. | :28:29. | |
programme is better than any other back to work programme under the | :28:30. | :28:38. | |
last government. So why is long term unemployment rising? It is falling. | :28:39. | :28:44. | |
We have the largest number of people back in work, there is more women in | :28:45. | :28:49. | |
work than ever before, more jobs being created, 1.6 million new jobs | :28:50. | :28:54. | |
being created. The work programme is working, our back to work programmes | :28:55. | :29:01. | |
are incredibly successful at below cost so we are doing better than the | :29:02. | :29:05. | |
last government ever did, and it will continue to improve because | :29:06. | :29:10. | |
this process is very important. The competition is what drives up | :29:11. | :29:15. | |
performance. We want the best performers to take the biggest | :29:16. | :29:19. | |
numbers of people. You are practising Catholic, Archbishop | :29:20. | :29:26. | |
Vincent Nichols has attached your reforms -- attack to your reforms, | :29:27. | :29:30. | |
saying they are becoming more punitive to the most vulnerable in | :29:31. | :29:35. | |
the land. What do you say? I don't agree. It would have been good if | :29:36. | :29:40. | |
you called me before making these attacks because most are not | :29:41. | :29:50. | |
correct. For the poorest temper sent in their | :29:51. | :29:55. | |
society, they are now spending, as a percentage of their income, less | :29:56. | :29:59. | |
than they did before. I'm not quite sure what he thinks welfare is | :30:00. | :30:04. | |
about. Welfare is about stabilising people but most of all making sure | :30:05. | :30:08. | |
that households can achieve what they need through work. The number | :30:09. | :30:13. | |
of workless households under previous governments arose | :30:14. | :30:17. | |
consistently. It has fallen for the first time in 30 years by nearly | :30:18. | :30:23. | |
18%. Something like a quarter of a million children were growing up in | :30:24. | :30:26. | |
workless households and are now in households with work and they are | :30:27. | :30:30. | |
three times more likely to grow up with work than they would have been | :30:31. | :30:34. | |
in workless households. Let me come into something that he may have had | :30:35. | :30:39. | |
in mind as being punitive - some other housing benefit changes. A | :30:40. | :30:42. | |
year ago, the Prime Minister announced that people with severely | :30:43. | :30:46. | |
disabled children would be exempt from the changes but that was only | :30:47. | :30:51. | |
after your department fought a High Court battle over children who | :30:52. | :30:56. | |
couldn't share a bedroom because of severe disabilities. Isn't that what | :30:57. | :31:01. | |
the Archbishop means by punitive or, some may describe it, heartless We | :31:02. | :31:05. | |
were originally going to appeal that and I said no. You put it up for an | :31:06. | :31:11. | |
appeal and I said no. We're talking about families with disabled | :31:12. | :31:17. | |
children. There are good reasons for this. Children with conditions like | :31:18. | :31:20. | |
that don't make decisions about their household - their parents do - | :31:21. | :31:25. | |
so I said we would exempt them. But for adults with disabilities the | :31:26. | :31:29. | |
courts have upheld all of our decisions against complaints. But | :31:30. | :31:33. | |
you did appeal it. It's just that, having lost in the appeal court, you | :31:34. | :31:37. | |
didn't then go to the Supreme Court. You make decisions about this. My | :31:38. | :31:41. | |
view was that it was right to exempt them at that time. I made that | :31:42. | :31:47. | |
decision, not the Prime Minister. Let's get this right - the context | :31:48. | :31:51. | |
of this is quite important. Housing benefit under the last government | :31:52. | :31:55. | |
doubled under the last ten years to ?20 billion. It was set to rise to | :31:56. | :32:01. | |
another 25 billion, the fastest rising of the benefits, it was out | :32:02. | :32:05. | |
of control. We had to get it into control. It wasn't easy but we | :32:06. | :32:08. | |
haven't cut the overall rise in housing. We've lowered it but we | :32:09. | :32:13. | |
haven't cut housing benefit and we've tried to do it carefully so | :32:14. | :32:17. | |
that people get a fair crack. On the spare room subsidy, which is what | :32:18. | :32:20. | |
this complaint was about, the reality is that there are a quarter | :32:21. | :32:24. | |
of a million people living in overcrowded accommodation. The last | :32:25. | :32:27. | |
government left us with 1 million people on a waiting list for housing | :32:28. | :32:30. | |
and there were half a million people sitting in houses with spare | :32:31. | :32:34. | |
bedrooms they weren't using. As we build more houses, yes we need more, | :32:35. | :32:38. | |
but the reality is that councils and others have to use their | :32:39. | :32:41. | |
accommodation carefully so that they actually improve the lot of those | :32:42. | :32:44. | |
living in desperate situations in overcrowded accommodation, and | :32:45. | :32:48. | |
taxpayers are paying a lot of money. This will help people get | :32:49. | :32:52. | |
back to work. They're more likely to go to work and more likely, | :32:53. | :32:56. | |
therefore, to end up in the right sort of housing. We've not got much | :32:57. | :33:02. | |
time left. A centre-right think tank that you've been associated with, on | :33:03. | :33:07. | |
job-seeker's allowance, says 70 000 job-seekers' benefits were withdrawn | :33:08. | :33:14. | |
unfairly. A viewer wants to know, are these reforms too harsh and | :33:15. | :33:19. | |
punitive? Those figures are not correct. The Policy Exchange is | :33:20. | :33:23. | |
wrong? Those figures are not correct and we will be publishing corrected | :33:24. | :33:30. | |
figures. The reality is... Some people have lost their job-seeker | :33:31. | :33:33. | |
benefits and been forced to go to food backs and they shouldn't have. | :33:34. | :33:38. | |
No, they're not. What he is referring to is that we allowed an | :33:39. | :33:43. | |
adviser to make a decision if some but it is not cooperating. We now | :33:44. | :33:47. | |
make people sign a contract, where they agree these things. These are | :33:48. | :33:51. | |
things we do for you and if you don't do these things, you are | :33:52. | :33:55. | |
likely to have your benefit withdrawn on job-seeker's allowance. | :33:56. | :33:57. | |
Some of this was an fairly withdrawn. There are millions of | :33:58. | :34:02. | |
these things that go through. This is a very small subset. But if you | :34:03. | :34:07. | |
lose your job-seeker benefit unfairly, you have no cash flow. | :34:08. | :34:11. | |
There is an immediate review within seven days of that decision. Within | :34:12. | :34:17. | |
seven days, that decision is reviewed. They are able to get a | :34:18. | :34:20. | |
hardship fund straightaway if there is a problem. We have nearly ?1 | :34:21. | :34:25. | |
billion setup to help people, through crisis, hardship funds and | :34:26. | :34:33. | |
in many other ways. We've given more than ?200 million to authorities to | :34:34. | :34:37. | |
do face-to-face checks. This is not a nasty, vicious system but a system | :34:38. | :34:43. | |
that says, "look, we ask you to do certain things. Taxpayers pay this | :34:44. | :34:46. | |
money. You are out of work but you have obligations to seek work. We | :34:47. | :34:50. | |
simply ask that you stick to doing those. Those sanctions are therefore | :34:51. | :34:54. | |
be but he will not cooperate" . I think it is only fair to say to | :34:55. | :34:58. | |
those people that they make choices throughout their life and if they | :34:59. | :35:00. | |
choose not to cooperate, this is what happens. Is child poverty | :35:01. | :35:06. | |
rising? No, it is actually falling in the last figures. 300,000 it fell | :35:07. | :35:13. | |
in the last... Let me show you these figures. That is a projection by the | :35:14. | :35:19. | |
Institute of fiscal studies. It also shows that it has gone up every year | :35:20. | :35:25. | |
and will rise by 400,000 in this Parliament, and your government, and | :35:26. | :35:28. | |
will continue to rise. But never mind the projection. It may be | :35:29. | :35:32. | |
right, may be wrong. It would be 400,000 up compared to when -- what | :35:33. | :35:39. | |
you inherited when this Parliament ends. That isn't a projection but | :35:40. | :35:44. | |
the actual figures. But the last figures show that child poverty has | :35:45. | :35:49. | |
fallen by some 300,000. The important point is... Can I just | :35:50. | :35:54. | |
finished this point of? Child poverty is measured against 60% of | :35:55. | :35:57. | |
median income so this is an issue about how we measure child poverty. | :35:58. | :36:03. | |
You want to change the measure. I made the decision not to publish our | :36:04. | :36:07. | |
change figures at this point because we've still got a bit more work to | :36:08. | :36:10. | |
do on them but there is a big consensus that the way we measure | :36:11. | :36:14. | |
child poverty right now does not measure exactly what requires to be | :36:15. | :36:19. | |
done. For example, a family with an individual parent who may be drug | :36:20. | :36:22. | |
addicted and gets what we think is enough money to be just over the | :36:23. | :36:25. | |
line, their children may be living in poverty but they won't be | :36:26. | :36:29. | |
measured so we need to get a measurement that looks at poverty in | :36:30. | :36:32. | |
terms of how people live, not just in terms of the income levels they | :36:33. | :36:38. | |
have. You can see on that chart - 400,000 rising by the end of this | :36:39. | :36:42. | |
Parliament - you are deciding over an increase. Speedier I want to | :36:43. | :36:47. | |
change it because under the last government child poverty rose | :36:48. | :36:50. | |
consistently from 2004 and they ended up chucking huge sums of money | :36:51. | :36:56. | |
into things like tax credits. In tax credits, in six years before the | :36:57. | :37:03. | |
last election, the last government spent ?175 billion chasing a poverty | :37:04. | :37:05. | |
target and they didn't achieve what they set out to achieve. We don't | :37:06. | :37:10. | |
want to continue down that line where you simply put money into a | :37:11. | :37:14. | |
welfare system to alter a marginal income line. It doesn't make any | :37:15. | :37:18. | |
sense. That's why we want to change it, not because some projection says | :37:19. | :37:23. | |
it might be going up. I will point out again it isn't a projection up | :37:24. | :37:36. | |
to 2013-14. You want it to make work pay but more people in poverty are | :37:37. | :37:39. | |
now in working families than in workless families. For them, workers | :37:40. | :37:46. | |
not paying. Those figures referred to the last government's time in | :37:47. | :37:51. | |
government. What is interesting about it is that until 2010, under | :37:52. | :37:57. | |
the last government, those in working families - poverty in | :37:58. | :38:00. | |
working families rose by half a million. For the two years up to the | :38:01. | :38:04. | |
end of those figures, it has been flat, under this government. These | :38:05. | :38:08. | |
are figures at the last government... You inherited and it | :38:09. | :38:14. | |
hasn't changed. The truth is, even if you are in poverty in a working | :38:15. | :38:19. | |
family, your children, if they are in workless families, are three | :38:20. | :38:22. | |
times more likely to be out of work and to suffer real hardship. So, in | :38:23. | :38:28. | |
other words, moving people up the scale, into work and then on is | :38:29. | :38:34. | |
important. The problem with the last government system with working tax | :38:35. | :38:37. | |
credit is it locks them into certain hours and they didn't progress. | :38:38. | :38:41. | |
We're changing that so that you progress on up and go out of poverty | :38:42. | :38:45. | |
through work and beyond it. But those figures you're referring to | :38:46. | :38:49. | |
refer to the last government's tenure and they spent ?175 billion | :38:50. | :38:54. | |
on a tax credit which still left people in work in poverty. Even 20 | :38:55. | :38:59. | |
minutes isn't enough to go through all this. A lot more I'd like to | :39:00. | :39:03. | |
talk about. I hope you will come back. I will definitely come back. | :39:04. | :39:08. | |
Thank you for joining us. You're watching the Sunday | :39:09. | :39:11. | |
Politics. We say goodbye to viewers in Scotland, who leave us now for | :39:12. | :39:13. | |
Sunday Politics Scotland. Hello once again from the Mhdlands, | :39:14. | :39:29. | |
I'm Patrick Burns. And we h`ve a very select gathering here today. | :39:30. | :39:32. | |
Two MPs representing no fewdr than five Commons select committdes | :39:33. | :39:35. | |
between them. Adrian Bailey, Labour MP for West Bromwich West, chairs | :39:36. | :39:38. | |
the Business Innovation and Skills Select Committee. Karen Lumley, | :39:39. | :39:44. | |
Conservative MP for Redditch, is on both the Transport and Welsh Affairs | :39:45. | :39:52. | |
Select Committees. But we'll not be setting foot beyond Offa's Dyke I | :39:53. | :39:58. | |
can assure you. Because it's Adrian's committee | :39:59. | :40:02. | |
who're breaking new ground. The Business Select Committee are coming | :40:03. | :40:06. | |
to the aid of our embattled high streets, calling for business rates | :40:07. | :40:08. | |
to be "fundamentally reformdd" or even scrapped altogether. On top of | :40:09. | :40:14. | |
the economic downturn and online competition, these rates ard being | :40:15. | :40:16. | |
blamed for those increasingly desolate areas of our towns and | :40:17. | :40:19. | |
cities, with one shop after another closing down for good. Adri`n Bailey | :40:20. | :40:25. | |
says business rates pose, "The single biggest threat to thd | :40:26. | :40:29. | |
survival of retail businessds on the High Street". | :40:30. | :40:40. | |
It sounds apocalyptic. Are xou going to scrap it altogether? It has to be | :40:41. | :40:47. | |
fundamental reform. Currently revaluation was done in 2008. The | :40:48. | :40:53. | |
level of rates been increasdd every year since then. 2008 was at the | :40:54. | :40:59. | |
peak of the property prices before the recession. Bricks and mortar | :41:00. | :41:06. | |
retailers that populate our High Street have been caught in dver | :41:07. | :41:11. | |
escalating costs whilst dem`nd has been at best flat and often | :41:12. | :41:16. | |
diminished. The BBC has been talking to a leading surveyor and hd says | :41:17. | :41:20. | |
that this system is based on property rather than sales for a | :41:21. | :41:26. | |
reason. It works. The Government, if it does not levy the money hn this | :41:27. | :41:31. | |
way, it will do it in anothdr way, so it may as well be property. The | :41:32. | :41:35. | |
Government has to handle thd issue very carefully. If you led to a | :41:36. | :41:48. | |
system that had reduced revdnue The system is currently very we`k. There | :41:49. | :41:51. | |
should be a root and branch assessment done of where thd burden | :41:52. | :41:59. | |
is falling and if it can be spread more equitably, see between the | :42:00. | :42:02. | |
multiple retailer and the bricks and mortar retailer. | :42:03. | :42:10. | |
How are the major retailers getting on? They are doing very well. But | :42:11. | :42:23. | |
there are people who are very worried about this. We have got to | :42:24. | :42:27. | |
do something. They are going to go out of business. What happens to the | :42:28. | :42:52. | |
revival of the High Street? We had some money can to Redditch. We had a | :42:53. | :43:04. | |
Dragon 's Den type setup to bring the new businesses into Redditch. | :43:05. | :43:14. | |
Still to come: Is Number Ten Downing Street being passed around like a | :43:15. | :43:19. | |
plaything for Old Etonians? Sounds like the latest salvo in thd class | :43:20. | :43:24. | |
war. Except the person tweeting it is a Conservative MP, who rdckons | :43:25. | :43:27. | |
the top job is being treated like a baton in a relay race. That's | :43:28. | :43:34. | |
another of our talking points, a little later on. | :43:35. | :43:39. | |
We've seen the marches, the protest meetings and the midnight vhgils. | :43:40. | :43:43. | |
Now the fight for local hospital services is becoming even more | :43:44. | :43:49. | |
political. When the National Health Action Party unveil their c`ndidates | :43:50. | :43:53. | |
for the next election, we c`n expect Stafford to feature high on their | :43:54. | :43:58. | |
target list. Redditch too pdrhaps. Ben Godfrey has seen the battle | :43:59. | :44:03. | |
lines being drawn. It's survived countless scares ` but | :44:04. | :44:05. | |
your friendly`neighbourhood hospital brimming with acute services ` is | :44:06. | :44:15. | |
reaching the end of its lifd. Its role will change. It will bd legally | :44:16. | :44:25. | |
dead. `` regraded. The Stafford Hospital crisis could | :44:26. | :44:28. | |
be the turning point for re`structuring NHS hospitals. The | :44:29. | :44:31. | |
Trust which runs it will be dissolved. Some of its spechalist | :44:32. | :44:34. | |
services shipped out to othdr hospitals ` with a focus on | :44:35. | :44:39. | |
so`called centres of excelldnce We have become more technical `nd more | :44:40. | :44:45. | |
specialised. You cannot havd a brain surgeon in every hospital. | :44:46. | :44:50. | |
We've been here before. In 0998 ten thousand people joined rallhes to | :44:51. | :44:52. | |
protect services at Kiddermhnster Hospital. And voters pushed a local | :44:53. | :44:56. | |
Dr into the House of Commons. Dr Richard Taylor ousted a | :44:57. | :44:59. | |
Government minister in 2001 but lost his seat to the Conservativds in | :45:00. | :45:04. | |
Wyre Forest four years ago. Today, with new battles for hospital | :45:05. | :45:07. | |
services someone has called for a Dr again ` or should that be white van | :45:08. | :45:13. | |
man? The 79`year`old will stand `t next | :45:14. | :45:16. | |
year's General Election for the National Health Action Partx and is | :45:17. | :45:19. | |
already on the campaign trahl with local election candidates. | :45:20. | :45:30. | |
Kidderminster is the only profitable hospital in the entire county. It | :45:31. | :45:34. | |
will be sold off to private enterprise if we do not watch it. | :45:35. | :45:38. | |
The Governmment argues major reforms are needed to the NHS to find ? 0 | :45:39. | :45:42. | |
billion of savings. And the pressure's building. Of the 147 NHS | :45:43. | :45:45. | |
Foundation Trusts in England, 3 are in financial trouble. At Mid Staffs | :45:46. | :45:50. | |
they racked up a debt last xear of almost ?15 million. | :45:51. | :45:55. | |
We've learned that members of Support Stafford Hospital c`mpaign | :45:56. | :45:58. | |
group, who led 50,000 peopld on a protest march, are joining the | :45:59. | :46:01. | |
National Health Action Partx ahead of the General Election and are | :46:02. | :46:12. | |
considering fielding candid`tes The entire situation, and the process we | :46:13. | :46:19. | |
have been put through, once the community realises that this year, | :46:20. | :46:26. | |
they will have a lot of intdrest. How realistic is it that thhs party | :46:27. | :46:35. | |
can have success at the ballot box? It could have success. But once you | :46:36. | :46:38. | |
get into office you have to deliver and voters get dissatisfied. | :46:39. | :46:42. | |
Hospitals are fighting to strvive so more merged services are likely but | :46:43. | :46:46. | |
when it comes to improving patient care does Dr really does know best? | :46:47. | :46:51. | |
Does the politician know best for that matter? | :46:52. | :46:55. | |
Ben Godfrey reporting. Let's talk to that Dr turned politician, who | :46:56. | :46:57. | |
triggered a political landslide in Kidderminster, twice. Richard | :46:58. | :47:03. | |
Taylor, former Independent LP for Wyre Forest, now planning a | :47:04. | :47:05. | |
Parliamentary comeback therd, for the National Health Action Party. | :47:06. | :47:17. | |
We know you are standing in wire forest. `` Wyre Forest. What about | :47:18. | :47:28. | |
other candidates in other areas We are only at this stage of dhscussing | :47:29. | :47:34. | |
things at the moment. What `re your targets? The only one we ard talking | :47:35. | :47:38. | |
about at the moment as Stafford The point has been made that we are | :47:39. | :47:45. | |
going to split the vote. We are going to be terribly careful where | :47:46. | :47:52. | |
we stand. That will be subjdct to a lot of discussion. Are you fighting | :47:53. | :48:02. | |
to win or justice but the vote? When I look back and think of me as the | :48:03. | :48:09. | |
only independent MP on the House of Commons I know I made a difference. | :48:10. | :48:18. | |
If we could get two or thred, ten, 15. Doctors training is ide`l for | :48:19. | :48:42. | |
politics. The vision of the national health service, which your party | :48:43. | :48:47. | |
wants to wind the clock back to our universal service with a set of | :48:48. | :48:51. | |
acute services in local district hospitals, given that peopld are | :48:52. | :48:57. | |
living and working longer, ht is not affordable even with ring fdnced | :48:58. | :49:00. | |
budgets. You have to go for centres of excellence is. Things have | :49:01. | :49:09. | |
changed tremendously since the Kidderminster Hospital camp`ign At | :49:10. | :49:11. | |
that time heart attacks and strokes were treated in district general | :49:12. | :49:23. | |
hospitals. But now it is trdated in a centre of excellence. You accept | :49:24. | :49:28. | |
that. Heart attacks and strokes have to go to major centres. One accepts | :49:29. | :49:35. | |
that. That is not the view on the ground in Stafford. People `re | :49:36. | :49:38. | |
campaigning to retain distrhct hospitals. I do not know thd details | :49:39. | :49:46. | |
of what they are planning to keep. But you have to have the facilities | :49:47. | :49:56. | |
to treat enough people for vascular surgery. There is a question over | :49:57. | :50:02. | |
whether Redditch can keep that going. There are certain spdcialties | :50:03. | :50:07. | |
that have to move. You want to drive Labour to the left. Can you spell | :50:08. | :50:14. | |
out what you mean by that? H can spell it out exactly. The L`bour | :50:15. | :50:19. | |
Party have said very definitely that they are thinking of revershng the | :50:20. | :50:23. | |
health act. We would like to see that reversed. We would likd the NHS | :50:24. | :50:32. | |
to be the preferred provider of health services. We are not against | :50:33. | :50:38. | |
privatisation completely, bdcause there are so many bits of the | :50:39. | :50:42. | |
national health service that are already privatised. Are you going to | :50:43. | :50:47. | |
be moved to the left by this campaign? The success that he has | :50:48. | :50:52. | |
had in the past is an indic`tion of the huge regard that the public has | :50:53. | :50:59. | |
for the National Health Service As the Labour Party introduced the | :51:00. | :51:01. | |
National Health Service we `re hugely committed to it. It hs one of | :51:02. | :51:09. | |
our priorities. It has to change. Clinical priorities and clinical | :51:10. | :51:13. | |
practices have changed. But what we are seeing is that health and social | :51:14. | :51:18. | |
care action can be repealed so that doctors can concentrate on | :51:19. | :51:23. | |
delivering services to the public, not administering them. In Redditch | :51:24. | :51:33. | |
you have a campaign. They w`nt you to vote against this Bill that has | :51:34. | :51:37. | |
this Clause 119 which could accelerate closure plans. They want | :51:38. | :51:46. | |
you to vote against that. I met people from that campaign. H only | :51:47. | :51:50. | |
meeting their minister to share their concerns. Will you vote | :51:51. | :52:00. | |
against? If a hospital is f`iling either clinically or financhally, | :52:01. | :52:03. | |
something has got to happen to that hospital. You cannot just do | :52:04. | :52:11. | |
nothing. Is it failing becatse of the success of a campaign in | :52:12. | :52:16. | |
Kidderminster? We have had ` cross`party campaign in Redditch. We | :52:17. | :52:23. | |
have got a better deal than was proposed two years ago. That shows | :52:24. | :52:28. | |
that parties working togethdr can unite and succeed. I look forward to | :52:29. | :52:33. | |
that hospital having a fant`stic future. Do you think you can work | :52:34. | :52:39. | |
together? If the parties had worked together at the time of | :52:40. | :52:43. | |
Kidderminster we would not have lost the hospital there. We would not | :52:44. | :52:45. | |
have lost the amount of services that we don't. You talk abott having | :52:46. | :52:52. | |
affiliate organisations that campaign. In Kidderminster hn 2 01 | :52:53. | :52:59. | |
you had this very intense locally focused campaign. You have lost that | :53:00. | :53:06. | |
energy. The local focus has maybe gone down a little bit, but the | :53:07. | :53:10. | |
national focus, and the intdrest in the NHS is still top. We have | :53:11. | :53:17. | |
recently had a work experience person for a week. I asked him how | :53:18. | :53:24. | |
important was NHS to 17`year`olds and he said it was top. | :53:25. | :53:29. | |
We've seen how our local businesses are driving the recovery. | :53:30. | :53:32. | |
Unemployment falling faster here than anywhere else outside the | :53:33. | :53:34. | |
Southeast. Economic growth forecast to be twice the UK average. Exports | :53:35. | :53:37. | |
growing faster here than anxwhere else in the UK. The public finances | :53:38. | :53:44. | |
are still a mess though. Birmingham City Council are selling`off the | :53:45. | :53:50. | |
National Exhibition Centre Group. They say this has nothing whatsoever | :53:51. | :53:53. | |
to do with the authority's unprecedented financial "bl`ck | :53:54. | :53:57. | |
hole". And in Wolverhampton, the council are losing a third of their | :53:58. | :54:00. | |
entire workforce. Here's Giles Latcham. | :54:01. | :54:04. | |
For sale ` the NEC, ICC, NI@ and LG Arena. An alphabet soup of world | :54:05. | :54:08. | |
renowned concert and exhibition venues. A collective price tag of | :54:09. | :54:15. | |
around ?300 million. A case of Birmingham selling its crown jewels | :54:16. | :54:24. | |
perhaps? In some peoples eyds it may be the sale of the crown jewels We | :54:25. | :54:30. | |
want to ensure that the safdty of the city is maintained. | :54:31. | :54:34. | |
The council's finances are drenched in red ink. They need to make | :54:35. | :54:37. | |
savings of ?822 million over the next four years and settle `n equal | :54:38. | :54:52. | |
pay Bill of ?1 billion. Over in Wolverhampton protesters | :54:53. | :54:54. | |
gathered to make their point as councillors approved drastic cuts. | :54:55. | :54:58. | |
2,000 jobs will go ` a third of the workforce ` to help save ?123 | :54:59. | :55:01. | |
million. Council tax will go up The only option ` putting on a brave | :55:02. | :55:06. | |
face. We will manage this. We will get through this. We will still have | :55:07. | :55:12. | |
council services in 2018. I hope that afterwards we will start to | :55:13. | :55:17. | |
rebuild public services. Thhs city deserves better than we're getting | :55:18. | :55:19. | |
from this Government. Birmingham's leader describdd the | :55:20. | :55:22. | |
cuts as the jaws of doom. Wolverhampton's motto? Out of | :55:23. | :55:24. | |
darkness cometh light. They'll be hoping it's not just a hollow | :55:25. | :55:30. | |
slogan. Sir Albert Bore also says it's, "The | :55:31. | :55:33. | |
end of local Government as we know it". | :55:34. | :55:40. | |
Giles Latcham reporting. Are we really to take at face value | :55:41. | :55:44. | |
this idea that the sell`off of the NEC has nothing to do with the | :55:45. | :55:47. | |
general finances of the citx council? If you look at the overall | :55:48. | :55:52. | |
finances and the cats they have made in the past and I going to have to | :55:53. | :55:56. | |
make in the future, this particular issue would have arisen irrdspective | :55:57. | :56:01. | |
of the equal pay legislation. It shows how far Labour have come. They | :56:02. | :56:08. | |
are extolling the virtues of selling off into the private sector | :56:09. | :56:10. | |
something that had been seen as a crown jewel. The reverse side is | :56:11. | :56:15. | |
that this is the city of Joseph Chamberlain, the liberal pioneer of | :56:16. | :56:25. | |
municipal enterprise in this area. It is ironic that as a result of | :56:26. | :56:28. | |
liberal Conservative cats this council has had to reverse that | :56:29. | :56:33. | |
process. Meanwhile, your party is getting the blame for what he says | :56:34. | :56:37. | |
is the damage to important services. He wants to rebuild in | :56:38. | :56:45. | |
2017. By implication he thinks there will be a Labour Government. We | :56:46. | :56:51. | |
inherited a terrible mess. Dverybody had to pay the price for th`t. That | :56:52. | :56:57. | |
includes local councils. Sole councils are doing innovative | :56:58. | :56:59. | |
things. My council has joindd with Bromsgrove council. But it hs not | :57:00. | :57:10. | |
enough. It is priorities. That is where you spend your money. You are | :57:11. | :57:13. | |
given a grant and you choosd where to spend it. But this choicd is that | :57:14. | :57:18. | |
locally elected councillors are elected to make. They are elected to | :57:19. | :57:21. | |
make. The active given that Grant and they had to do that. Th`t right | :57:22. | :57:24. | |
thing. I was a local councillor myself. We had to make decisions | :57:25. | :57:30. | |
very often. It is what you `re elected to do. Speaking of those | :57:31. | :57:33. | |
tough choices, we have seen persistent reports from | :57:34. | :57:37. | |
Wolverhampton but the authority has been extravagant. Should thdy not go | :57:38. | :57:48. | |
down the road of merging, working smarter? They would say that. My | :57:49. | :57:57. | |
local council has been planning to work with other local authorities | :57:58. | :58:04. | |
and reduce administrative costs But the scale of the cuts as such it is | :58:05. | :58:08. | |
almost impossible to squeezd any more money out without seriously | :58:09. | :58:16. | |
looking at the level of services. This is dangerous. Are you saying | :58:17. | :58:20. | |
that public authorities are paladins of business efficiency? I al sure | :58:21. | :58:23. | |
there are improvements that can be made elsewhere. `` paragons. | :58:24. | :58:32. | |
Co`operative working can salvage the services. The Government will have | :58:33. | :58:37. | |
to come to a decision. Therd are range of public services th`t are | :58:38. | :58:41. | |
better delivered locally. Are they going to be funded or not? @t the | :58:42. | :58:47. | |
moment it looks as if they `re not. Now for our regular update on the | :58:48. | :58:50. | |
other main political developments here over the past seven daxs. The | :58:51. | :58:54. | |
Week in 60 Seconds is brought to us today by our BBC Shropshire | :58:55. | :58:56. | |
Political Reporter, Joanne Gallacher. | :58:57. | :58:59. | |
Shropshire car parts maker Stadco is creating 200 more jobs after winning | :59:00. | :59:02. | |
a new ?15 million contract with Jaguar Land Rover. | :59:03. | :59:07. | |
The Green Party will hold its annual conference in Birmingham in | :59:08. | :59:13. | |
September at Aston University. They are returning to the city for the | :59:14. | :59:17. | |
first time since 2010. The best of manufacturing in | :59:18. | :59:20. | |
Birmingham and the Black Cotntry was on display at an event for LPs at | :59:21. | :59:23. | |
Westminster. The message lotd and clear ` we still make things here! | :59:24. | :59:33. | |
This is a region that understands the need for cooperation. Wd still | :59:34. | :59:38. | |
manufacture things. Details of Birmingham City Council's | :59:39. | :59:41. | |
IT contract with Capita havd been published. It's costing council tax | :59:42. | :59:44. | |
payers ?345,000 a day. And to Twitter where Wrekin MP Mark | :59:45. | :59:47. | |
Pritchard says, "Inside and outside Parliament people are fed up of Old | :59:48. | :59:50. | |
Etonians thinking they can pass on Number ten like some sort of play | :59:51. | :59:56. | |
thing or baton." Who could he possibly be talking about? | :59:57. | :00:10. | |
David Cameron, Boris Johnson. I could go on and on. It plays into | :00:11. | :00:15. | |
the hands of UKIP for example who say that they did Cameron strrounds | :00:16. | :00:20. | |
himself with posh boys in Government. It does not matter where | :00:21. | :00:24. | |
you go to school. It matters what you do to the high school. H went to | :00:25. | :00:29. | |
Rugby high school. Both of ly children were educated in the state | :00:30. | :00:34. | |
system. It is important that we get to real politics. We are trxing to | :00:35. | :00:41. | |
make people 's lives better. You cannot be too complacent. Tristram | :00:42. | :00:48. | |
Hunt. Ed Miliband. Some serhously posh chaps in your party. Ed | :00:49. | :00:56. | |
Miliband lead to a state school There are ten Conservative linisters | :00:57. | :01:01. | |
who went to Eton. That is an incredible proportion. This is | :01:02. | :01:09. | |
reflected by comments made by Nadine Doris. There is a feeling in the | :01:10. | :01:13. | |
Conservative Party that thex are being taken over by this ond group. | :01:14. | :01:18. | |
Mark Pritchard is saying thdre is invitation within the parli`mentary | :01:19. | :01:22. | |
party at this influence. I have not seen that. It is important that we | :01:23. | :01:28. | |
have a group of people in the Cabinet who can do the best for the | :01:29. | :01:32. | |
British people. I believe wd have got that. I do not care where they | :01:33. | :01:36. | |
went to school as long as they can do the job and deliver for the | :01:37. | :01:39. | |
British people. That is what they are doing. | :01:40. | :01:43. | |
My thanks to Karen Lumley and Adrian Bailey. Coming up this week, your | :01:44. | :01:48. | |
chance to put questions dirdct to a senior executive of one of the Big | :01:49. | :01:52. | |
Six" energy companies. BBC WM's "hotseat" should certainly live`up | :01:53. | :01:55. | |
to the advance billing when nPower Director Guy Esnouf will be Adrian | :01:56. | :02:02. | |
Goldberg's guest. That's thhs coming Friday morning between 11.14 and | :02:03. | :02:14. | |
11.45 on BBC WM 95.6. This though is where we rejoin Andrew Neil. | :02:15. | :02:17. | |
Gove is right to focus. We've run out of time. Thanks for being here. | :02:18. | :02:19. | |
Andrew, back to you. Now, without further ado, more from | :02:20. | :02:37. | |
our political panel. Iain Martin, what did you make of Iain Duncan | :02:38. | :02:40. | |
Smith's response to the Danny Alexander point I'd put to him? I | :02:41. | :02:46. | |
thought it was a cheekily put response but actually, on Twitter, | :02:47. | :02:49. | |
people have been tweeting while on air that there are lots of examples | :02:50. | :02:52. | |
where the Tories have demanded the raising of the threshold. The 2 06 | :02:53. | :02:58. | |
Forsyth tax omission is another example. Helen, on the bigger issue | :02:59. | :03:05. | |
of welfare reforms, is welfare reform, as we head into the | :03:06. | :03:11. | |
election, despite all the criticisms, still a plus for the | :03:12. | :03:15. | |
government? I don't think so. Whatever the opposite of a Midas | :03:16. | :03:18. | |
touch is, Iain Duncan Smith has got it. David Cameron never talks about | :03:19. | :03:24. | |
universal credit any more. The record on personal independence | :03:25. | :03:27. | |
payment, for example... We didn t get onto that. Only one in six of | :03:28. | :03:34. | |
those notes have been paid. A toss pulling out of their condiment has | :03:35. | :03:41. | |
been a nightmare. It's a very big minus point for the Secretary of | :03:42. | :03:44. | |
State. -- Atos pulling out of bed contract. Welfare cuts are an | :03:45. | :03:57. | |
unambiguous point for the government but other points more ambiguous I | :03:58. | :04:02. | |
don't think it's technical complexity that makes IDS's reform a | :04:03. | :04:07. | |
problem. The IT gets moved out with time. But even if it's in fermented | :04:08. | :04:12. | |
perfectly, what it will achieve has been slightly oversold, I think and | :04:13. | :04:17. | |
simplified incredibly. All it does is improve incentives to work for | :04:18. | :04:21. | |
one section of the income scale and diminishes it at another. Basically, | :04:22. | :04:26. | |
you are encouraged to go from working zero hours to 16 hours but | :04:27. | :04:31. | |
your incentive to work beyond 1 goes down. That's not because it's a | :04:32. | :04:34. | |
horrendous policy but because in work benefits systems are | :04:35. | :04:37. | |
imperceptible. Most countries do worse than we do. -- benefits | :04:38. | :04:48. | |
systems cannot be perfected. They need to tone down how much this can | :04:49. | :04:51. | |
achieve even if it all goes flawlessly. There are clearly | :04:52. | :04:53. | |
problems, particularly within limitation, but Labour is still wary | :04:54. | :04:59. | |
of welfare reform. -- with implementation. Polls suggest it is | :05:00. | :05:05. | |
rather popular. People may not know what's involved were like the sound | :05:06. | :05:12. | |
of it. I think Janan is right to mark out the differences between | :05:13. | :05:15. | |
welfare cuts and welfare reforms. They are related but distinct. Are | :05:16. | :05:22. | |
we saying cuts are more popular than reform? They clearly are. The | :05:23. | :05:29. | |
numbers, when you present people numbers on benefit reductions, are | :05:30. | :05:37. | |
off the scale. Reform, for the reasons you explored in your | :05:38. | :05:41. | |
interview, is incredibly compensated. What's interesting is | :05:42. | :05:46. | |
that Labour haven't really definitively said what their | :05:47. | :05:51. | |
position is on this. I think they like - despite what they may see in | :05:52. | :05:56. | |
public occasionally - some of what universal credit might produce but | :05:57. | :05:59. | |
they don't want to be associated with it. We probably won't know | :06:00. | :06:07. | |
until if Ed Miliband is Prime Minister precisely what direction | :06:08. | :06:12. | |
Labour will go. Immigration is still a hot topic in Westminster and | :06:13. | :06:16. | |
throughout the country. This new Home Office minister, James | :06:17. | :06:18. | |
Brokenshire, made an intervention. Let's see what he had to say. For | :06:19. | :06:25. | |
too long, the benefits of immigration went to employers who | :06:26. | :06:29. | |
wanted an easy supply of cheap labour or to the wealthy | :06:30. | :06:32. | |
metropolitan elite who wanted cheap tradesmen and services, but not to | :06:33. | :06:35. | |
the ordinary hard-working people of this country. With the result that | :06:36. | :06:40. | |
the Prime Minister and everyone else has to tell us all whether they ve | :06:41. | :06:45. | |
now got Portuguese or whatever it is Nanny is. Is this the most | :06:46. | :06:49. | |
cack-handed intervention on an immigration issue in a long list? I | :06:50. | :06:54. | |
think it is and when I saw this being trailed the night before, I | :06:55. | :07:00. | |
worried for him. As soon as a minister of the Crown uses the | :07:01. | :07:02. | |
phrase "wealthy metropolitan elite" more likely we see it in recession. | :07:03. | :07:38. | |
We've just had the worst recession in several decades. It's no small | :07:39. | :07:45. | |
problem but compared to what ministers like James Brokenshire has | :07:46. | :07:49. | |
been saying for the past few years and also the reluctance to issue the | :07:50. | :07:53. | |
report earlier, I thought that, combined with the speech, made it | :07:54. | :07:58. | |
quite a bad week for the department. Was this a cack-handed attempt to | :07:59. | :08:02. | |
appeal to the UKIP voters? I think so and he's predecessor had to leave | :08:03. | :08:06. | |
the job because of having a foreign cleaner. It drew attention to the | :08:07. | :08:11. | |
Tories' biggest problem, the out of touch problem. Most people around | :08:12. | :08:15. | |
the country probably don't have a Portuguese nanny and you've just put | :08:16. | :08:21. | |
a big sign over David Cameron saying, this man can afford a | :08:22. | :08:26. | |
Portuguese Nanny. It is not the finest political operation ever | :08:27. | :08:28. | |
conducted and the speech was definitely given by the Home Office | :08:29. | :08:32. | |
to Number Ten but did Number Ten bother to read it? It was a complete | :08:33. | :08:38. | |
shambles. The basic argument that there is a divide between a wealthy | :08:39. | :08:42. | |
metropolitan elite and large parts of Middle Britain or the rest of the | :08:43. | :08:48. | |
country I think is basically sound. It is but they are on the wrong side | :08:49. | :08:53. | |
of it. What do you mean by that The Tory government is on the wrong | :08:54. | :08:57. | |
side. This is appealing to UKIP voters and we know that UKIP is | :08:58. | :09:02. | |
appealing to working-class voters who have previously voted Labour and | :09:03. | :09:05. | |
Tory. If you set up that divide make sure you are on the right side | :09:06. | :09:11. | |
stop When you talk about metropolitan members of the media | :09:12. | :09:14. | |
class, they say that it is rubbish and everyone has a Polish cleaner. | :09:15. | :09:20. | |
No, they don't. I do not have a clean! I don't clean behind the | :09:21. | :09:26. | |
fridge, either! Most people in the country don't have a cleaner. The | :09:27. | :09:31. | |
problem for the Tories on this is, why play that game? You can't | :09:32. | :09:42. | |
out-UKIP UKIP. After two or three years of sustained Tory effort to do | :09:43. | :09:45. | |
that, they will probably finish behind UKIP. Do we really want a | :09:46. | :09:52. | |
political system where it becomes an issue of where your nanny or your | :09:53. | :09:56. | |
cleaner is from, if you've got one? Unless, of course, they're illegal. | :09:57. | :10:02. | |
But Portuguese or Italian or Scottish... And intervention was | :10:03. | :10:06. | |
from Nick Clegg who said his wife was Dutch -- his mum was Dutch and | :10:07. | :10:14. | |
his wife was Spanish. Not communism but who your cleaner is! It's the | :10:15. | :10:20. | |
McCarthy question! Where does your cleaner come from. A lot of people | :10:21. | :10:25. | |
will say are lucky to have a cleaner. I want to move onto selfies | :10:26. | :10:31. | |
but first, on the Nigel Farage Nick Clegg debate, let's stick with | :10:32. | :10:35. | |
the TV one. Who do you think will win? Nigel Farage. Clegg. He is a | :10:36. | :10:43. | |
surprisingly good in debates and people have forgotten. I think Clegg | :10:44. | :10:47. | |
is going to win. I think Farage has peaked. We're going to keep that on | :10:48. | :10:57. | |
tape as well! Two 214 Clegg there. Selfies. Politicians are attempting | :10:58. | :11:03. | |
to show they're down with the kids. Let's look at some that we've seen | :11:04. | :11:05. | |
in recent days. Why are they doing this, Helen? I'm | :11:06. | :11:51. | |
so embarrassed you call me reading the SNP manifesto, as I do every | :11:52. | :11:56. | |
Saturday! They do it because it makes them seem authentic and that's | :11:57. | :11:59. | |
the big Lie that social media tells you - that you're seeing the real | :12:00. | :12:04. | |
person. You're not, you're seeing a very carefully manicured, more witty | :12:05. | :12:07. | |
person. That doesn't work for politicians. It looks so fake and | :12:08. | :12:15. | |
I'm still suffering the cringe I see every time I see Cameronserious | :12:16. | :12:20. | |
phone face. Does Mr Cameron really think it big Sim up because he's on | :12:21. | :12:24. | |
the phone to President Obama? Obama is not the personality he once was. | :12:25. | :12:33. | |
There is an international crisis in Ukraine - of course we are expecting | :12:34. | :12:37. | |
to be speaking to Obama! And if you were in any doubt about what a man | :12:38. | :12:41. | |
talking on the telephone looks like, here's a photo. I must confess, I | :12:42. | :12:46. | |
didn't take my own selfie. Did your nanny? My father-in-law took it | :12:47. | :12:53. | |
Where is your father-in-law from? Scotland. Just checking. Janan, I | :12:54. | :13:07. | |
think we've got one of you. The 1%! What a great telephone! Where did | :13:08. | :13:15. | |
you get that telephone? It looks like Wolf Of Wall Street! That's | :13:16. | :13:21. | |
what I go to bed in. It showed how excited Cameron was to be on the | :13:22. | :13:25. | |
phone to Obama. All our politicians think they are living a mini version | :13:26. | :13:29. | |
of US politics. President Obama goes on a big plane and we complain when | :13:30. | :13:34. | |
George Osborne goes first class on first Great Western. They want to be | :13:35. | :13:37. | |
big and important like American politics but it doesn't work. We'll | :13:38. | :13:42. | |
see your top at next week! That's it for this week. Faxed all | :13:43. | :13:47. | |
our guests. The Daily Politics is on all this week at lunchtime on BBC | :13:48. | :13:52. | |
Two. We'll be back here same time, same place next week. Remember, if | :13:53. | :13:56. | |
it's Sunday, it is the Sunday Politics. | :13:57. | :14:01. |