11/05/2014 Sunday Politics West Midlands

Morning, folks. Welcome to the Sunday Politics, where we're talking

about the Europe-wide contest that really matters. No, not Eurovision.

The European elections. There are local elections across England too

on May 22nd. The party leaders are campaigning ahead of polling day.

The results could be a pointer to the Big One, May 2015. We'll be

speaking to the man in charge of Labour's election battle plan. Has

the opposition really got its sights set on all-out victory in 2015? Or

will it just be content with squeaking home? And you can't

mention elections these days without talking about the impact of this

And in the Midlands, one giant him if UKIP really

And in the Midlands, one giant Euro`constituency of nearly six

million people electing seven MEPs. We'll have the first of our two live

debates with the parties of in, out, debates with the parties of in, out,

boroughs. What will make a difference to the way you vote?

And I'm joined by three journalists guaranteed to bring a touch of

Eurovision glamour to your Sunday morning. With views more

controversial than a bearded Austrian drag act and twice the

dress sense, it's Nick Watt, Helen Lewis and Janan Ganesh. So you might

have thought you've already heard David Cameron promise an in-out

referendum on EU membership in 2017 if he's still Prime Minister. Many

times. Many, many times. Well he obviously doesn't think you've been

listening, because he's been saying it again today. Here he is speaking

to the BBC earlier. We will hold a referendum by the end of 2017. It

will be a referendum on an in-out basis. Do we stay in a reformed

European Union or do we leave? And I've said very clearly that whatever

the outcome of the next election, and of course I want an overall

majority and I'm hoping and believing I can win an overall

majority, that people should be in no doubt I will not become Prime

Minister unless I can guarantee that we will hold a referendum. Here's

saying there that an overall majority there will definitely be a

referendum. If these are the minority position, he won't form a

new coalition unless they agree to a referendum, too. The Lib Dems a

pulmonary agree to that. They probably will because the Prime

ministers have a strong argument which is I gave you a referendum

back in 2010 so the least I need is theirs and the Lib Dems are the only

party who have stood in recent elections on a clear mandate to hold

a referendum, so it is difficult for them to say no, there was

interesting the interview he did earlier today. He named everything

was going to ask for. The most controversial with him, as he said

in his speech last year, he wants to take Britain out of the commitment

to make the European Union and ever closer union. That is a very big

ask, but the point is, he may well get it because the choice for the

European Union now, France and Germany, is a clear wonderful do

Britain in or out? Previously, it was can you put up with a British

prime ministers being annoying? I think you'll find the answer is they

are willing to pay a price but not any price to keep Britain in. In

this scenario, Labour would have lost the election again because we

are talking the slowly happen if Mr Cameron is the largest party or has

an overall majority. Could you then see Labour deciding we had better go

along with a referendum, too? I think that's unlikely because as I

think that's unlikely because there's a huge upside for that for I

think what's interesting is the idea he would for minority government.

Would you get confidence and look at other options that might well happen

with the way the arithmetic is going or is he going to hold out and say

the only way I will be Prime Minister is in a majority

Conservative government? No, the implication of his remarks was I

wouldn't form a coalition government unless my coalition partners would

also agree to vote for a referendum. He's basically talking about is

negotiating strategy in those coalition talks. It's a red line and

a huge opportunity for the Lib Dems, because they know David Cameron

absolutely has to do, for accidental reasons, as a person who survives as

Tory leader, to ask for that referendum, so they can ask anything

they want in return and if I was Nick Clegg, I would work out in the

next year one absolute colossal negotiating demand for those

coalition talks. For a party around 10% in the polls, they will do have

the Prime Minister over a barrel on this one, assuming that coalition

talks goes well. They could make Michael Gove Tbyte meeting. OK, we

need to move on. So, the politicians are out and about on what used to be

called the stump ahead of local and European elections in less than two

weeks' time. But, without wanting to depress you on a damp Sunday

morning, the party strategists are already hard at work on their

campaign plans for the General Election next May. Yes, it's less

than a year to go. They may have taken their time, but Labour's

battleplan for 2015 is starting to take shape. As well as take

promising to freeze your energy bills, and reintroduce the 50p rate

of tax, Ed Miliband now says he wants to intervene in the housing

market to keep rents down. There's even talk that the party leadership

wants to bring more railway lines into public ownership. And Labour is

gambling that its big push on the cost of living will see it through

to the general election despite evidence that growth is firmly back.

Labour's campaign chief Douglas Alexander hopes it all adds up to

victory next May. But so far, the evidence is hitting home very thin.

One survey today shows that 56% of people don't think Mr Miliband is up

to the job of Prime Minister. As we head towards one of the least

predictable general elections in 70 years, has Labour got a message to

win seats up and down the country? And Labour's election co-ordinator

and Shadow Foreign Secretary, Douglas Alexander, joins me now.

Welcome to Sunday Politics. A lot of these policies announced polar

pretty well. By popular with the country. When you add them together,

it's a move to the left and what would be wrong with that? I think is

your packet suggests, the contours in the coming campaign are becoming

clear. Our judgement is the defining issue of the year in British

politics will be the widening gap between the wealth of the country

and the finances of ordinary families. We believe it will be a

cost of living election and we have been setting out our thinking in

relation to energy prices and rent, but you will hear more from Labour

Party in the coming months because we're now less than one year away

from a decisive moment. If the leftish think tank suggested any of

his policies in that Tony Blair years, you would have opposed them.

Let's be clear, when not going for an interest but seeking to secure a

majority for the only way to do that is not simply to appeal to your

base, but to the centre ground. I believe we got genuine opportunities

in the next year. You have the Conservatives in a struggle with

UKIP on the right of politics. The Lib Dems 9% of trying to find their

base, and there's a genuine opportunity in the next year for

Labour to dominate the centre ground of politics and secure the majority

Labour government we are planning for in the coming year. I notice you

didn't deny you wouldn't have opposed. You say you have got an

message for aspirational voters in the South. This is what John Denham

said. He thinks you're talking too much to your core vote.

He is right to recognise we took a terrible beating in 2010. 29%. If

you look at what we've done in the last week, for example, the

signature policy on rent Ed Miliband announced to launch the campaign,

there's now more than 9 million people in the country in the private

rented sector, more than 1 million families. Many of them are in the

south-east. They are seeing circumstances where, suddenly,

landlord will increase the rent and they put the pressure involved in

schooling, health care facing the families, so it is important both in

terms of policy and in terms of politics that we speak to the whole

country, not simply to one part of it falls up what is the average rise

in event last year? I don't know. Can you tell me? 1%. 1% not in real

terms. I'm not sure what the problem is. It will happen to wages in last

year, we are facing circumstances where people will be worse off, up

to ?1600 off worse and frankly, if our opponents want to argue that the

economy has healed and they deserve a victory lap, good luck to them

because actually, what we are hearing from the Buddhist public,

not just in the north and south, is not the cost living crisis is

continuing and it affects families. There was nothing aspirational about

your party election broadcast for the European elections. It looked

like crude class war to money people. That's a bit of it. Bedroom

tax. Isn't it going to look bad that two thirds of those affected are

disabled? Who cares? They can't fight back. Shall be lay-offs and

NHS nurses? The National Health Service? Oh yes. Mr Cameron? Who

said that? Me. My gosh. The man has shrunk. He's actually shrunk. What

shall we do with him? Can we hunt him? Nothing about Europe, Labour

policy. News that the Tories would result in negative campaigning and

smear. You didn't tell you would be just as bad. Let's start the party

broadcast. The one thing guaranteed to have most people reaching for the

remote control these days are the words, there now follows a party but

the broadcast. I make no apology in the factory to be innovative in how

we presented. It's factual. It was a policy -based critic of this

government. And the Lib Dems role within it. So you're claiming it's

factual to betray the camera and cabinet is not even knowing what the

NHS is, -- the Cameron Cabinet. They attack the disabled because they

can't fight back. The Pinellas Tanner severely Prime Minister Sun

and he was treated during a short life by the NHS. It's a fact many

disabled people across the country including in my constituency have

been directly affected by the bedroom tax. And ultimately, this

Conservative led government, including the Lib Dems, will be held

accountable by the politicians. You say that, the Prime Minister, who

had a severely disabled son of. I you not ashamed about? I shadowed

Iain Duncan Smith of five months also they don't have the excuses of

seeing that saying nobody told them the consequences of the bedroom tax.

They went into this with their eyes open. They knew about the hardship

and difficulty. If they were one-bedroom properties available

across the country for people to move into, their argument would be

OK but they knew they were dealing with the most vulnerable people. Did

you sign off that part of the broadcast? Of course I stand by the

fact of it. I wish David Cameron and Iain Duncan Smith would apologise to

the disabled people of the country and the poorest people for the

effects of the bedroom tax. I hope we get that apology between now and

election. As someone who thinks integrity is important in politics,

not ashamed of this kind of thing? It's important we scrutinise the

policies of this government as well as adding a positive agenda for

change. You want that you won't promise this is the last time we'll

see such a negative press campaign? I don't think it is negative or

personal to scrutinise the government. So we'll get more of

this? I'm less interested in the background of the cabinet than their

views. You call the upper-class twits. It's for the British public

to make a judgement in terms of the British... That's how you depicted

them. We are held in accountable for the bedroom tax, the NHS, taxation,

and our record they have to defend. One reason are so fearful in this

election is actually because they know they have a poor record. Let's

look at other part of the election campaign. This poster. Particularly

digitally doing the rounds. On that shopping basket, can you tell us

which items take the full 20% VAT? It's representative of household

shopping, which includes items like cleaning products, and we know that

food is not that trouble. People don't go to the supermarket and say

this is -- vatable. So you are denying that ?450 extra is being

paid? Yes, where'd you get that figure? For an average family to pay

?450 a year extra VAT, they would have to spend ?21,600 a year on

vatable products at 20%. The average take-home pay is only 21,009. They

have got to spend on all sorts of things which are zero VAT. So in

addition to the items, has a range of products people face in terms of

VAT. How could an average family of ?21,000 a year spent 21,006 and the

pound a year on 20% vatable items? It's not an annual figure, is it? So

what is it then? If it's an annual, what is it? The increased VAT in

this parliament is calculated over the course of a Parliament. For the

whole of the Parliament? And you're illustrated this with a shopping

basket which almost has no VAT on it at all? People will be buying a

weekly shop in the course of this Parliament every week. Did you sign

off on this as well? Of course. It didn't dawn on you you're putting

things on it which have no VAT? If you want to argue some people go to

the shops and say these are vatable or not, I disagree. Even your rent

cap announcement went wrong. You're working on the rent rises and it

turns out it wasn't. It was a post your policy. It is the exception

rather than the rule to have the position we have at the moment. In

Northern Ireland we have seen the continued rise in terms of the

rented sector but there is a widespread recognition that for

those people in the rented sector, change is necessary. Are you

coordinating this campaign? It seems accident prone. This is a party that

has set the agenda more effectively than a Conservative party that said

when David Cameron was elected he wasn't going to bang on about

Europe. The day after the election we expect the Conservative party to

be engulfed in crisis. I'm proud of what we talk about and I think there

is a clear contrast about a party talking about issues people care

about, and a Conservative party talking about exclusively a

referendum. Are you in charge of the campaign? I am coordinating the

campaign is, yes. The expensive election guru you have hired, has he

been involved in any of this? We have started our discussions with

him. You are going to have to brief him about British politics because

he doesn't know anything about it. I make no apology for hiring him. He

has a lot of experience in winning tight elections and that is what we

are expecting. If you are expecting us to say, they have passed and we

have to hold them accountable, then I am sorry but we have a campaign

that holds the Government and the Conservatives to account for what I

think is a very hopeless record in government. Thank you.

He leads a party with zero MPs but his media presence is huge. He's had

an expenses scandal, but the public didn't seem to mind. He's got a

privileged background but he's seen as an anti-establishment champion.

Nothing seems to stick to him, not even eggs. I speak of course of

Nigel Farage. We'll talk to him in a moment, but first Giles has been out

on the campaign trail ahead of elections that could make or break

the UKIP leader. Nigel Farage likes a stage, and at

this stage of the Euro and local election campaign he is, like his

party, in buoyant mood. They feel they are on the verge of what they

see as causing an earthquake in British politics. Today Nigel is

filling thousands seat venues and bigger. Not that there's much sign

of that at this press launch. But it's a threat with serious money

behind it, that they believe the media and the political elite just

haven't realised yet, much less learned how to counter it. Not that

it's all been plain sailing. Offensive comments from some

candidates has not only seen UKIP labelled as racist, but necessitated

a rally by the party to visibly and verbally challenge that. The

offensive idiotic statements made by this handful of people have been

lifted up and presented to the great British public as if they represent

the view of this party, which they do not. They never have and they

never will. APPLAUSE I don't care what you call us, but

from this moment on, please do not call must trust a racist party. We

are not a racist party. The need to say that is not just

about the European and local elections even at that campaign

launch it's clear UKIP's leader has set his sights firmly on the

ultimate prize. I come from the south of England and I would not

want to be seen as an opportunist heading to the north, north Norfolk

or whatever it will be. I will make my mind up and stand in the general

election for somewhere in Kent, East Sussex, Hampshire, somewhere in my

home patch. Back at UKIP HQ they are still drilling down how the last

fortnight of campaigning should go. They aren't taking any chances, and

one imagines having offices above those of Max Clifford is a reminder

how fragile built reputations can be of the bubble bursting. They want

their reputation to be built on votes and they know anything but

significant success on May 22nd and some seats in Westminster in 2015

isn't going to be good enough. And after that, having sold yourselves

as the honest outsiders, that stance is harder to maintain once your

people are on the inside. And subtle changes from the past are already

noticeable. The ordinary man of the people stance is still working.

Characteristically outside a pub, Nigel Farage is glad handed by a

customer. Two weeks to go, let's cause an upset. Wouldn't that be

great? The only sign that such an interaction is different now is the

ever presence of bodyguards who shadow his every move. Over lunch

ahead of Question Time, a radio appearance, and then off to

Scotland, I ask him if some of those minded to vote UKIP who see him as a

man they'd be comfortable having a drink with are the sort of people

he'd be entirely comfortable sitting down with. Every political party

attracts support from across the spectrum and there will be some

magnificent people who vote for us and some ne'er-do-wells. The one

common thing about UKIP voters is that they are often not very

political. And it's that people's army that if UKIP can get to a

polling booth might just create that earthquake they want.

Nigel Farage joins me now. When you decided not to stand at the new work

by election coming said if you lost it that the bubble would have

burst. What did you mean by that? I was asked at seven 20p -- at 7:21pm

if I would stand, I have decided by the next morning that I would not. I

didn't know he was going to resign. You claim only a handful of UKIP

candidates have ever said things that are either stupid or offensive,

I'm right on that, yes? 0.1%, I'd rather it was non-. But why have you

chosen a candidate to fight this by-election that has said many

things most people would regard as stupid or offensive? Roger is

fighting this for us, someone of 70 years of age who grew up with a

strong Christian Bible background, in an age when homosexuality was

imprisonable. He had a certain set of views which he maintained for

many years which he now says he accepts the world has moved on and

he is relaxed about it. The comments about homosexuality are not from the

dark ages, they are from two or three years ago. From when he was a

Conservative, yes, so will you be asking David Cameron that question?

I have never seen a single comment from Roger that would be deemed to

be offensive. Do you regard his comments on homosexuality as

offensive? When he grew up, homosexuality was illegal in this

country. But this was in 2012 but he said that. Most people have his age

still feel uncomfortable about it -- of his age. In 2012 he said, if two

men can be married, why not three, why not a commune. Many people in

this country are disconcerted by the change in the meaning of marriage

and in a tolerant society we understand that some people have

different views. But he has changed his views now in only two years? He

says he is more relaxed about it. Was he your candidate? He is a

first-class campaigner who has had 30 years in industry, he served in

the European Parliament, he is a good candidate. This morning's

papers suggest you are about to select Victoria Ayling for Grimsby,

but she is on camera saying that, of immigrants, I just want to send a

lot back. This is all very interesting, and we can talk about

it, all we could talk about the fact that in 12 days we have a European

election and every voter across the UK can vote on it and it is really

interesting. Are you happy to pick a candidate that says of immigrants, I

just want to send a lot back? I have seen the tape, it is a complete

misquote and she says it in the context of illegal immigrants. I

have seen the full quote and in the context it is not about illegal

immigrants. Let's come onto the European campaign, you have used a

company that employs Eastern European is to deliver leaflets in

London and the Home Counties. Have we? I'm told that in Croydon one

branch might have done that. Have you found some indigenous Brits to

deliver leaflets in Europe? We have thousands joining the party every

month and they are not all indigenous because what is

interesting is that in today's opinion polls, UKIP is above the Lib

Dems and the Conservatives amongst the indigenous voting.

We have not agreed a manifesto for the general election, we will do

over the course of the summer. This is in your local election. We are

having local elections in some part of the country but we are fighting a

European election. It is impossible with the British media to have an

intelligent debate on the European question. But as I say, we are also

fighting the local elections too. You have promised these tax cuts,

how much will they cost? I have met -- read the local election manifesto

and it doesn't make those promises. We do talk about local services, we

do talk about the need to keep council tax down but we don't talk

about income tax. Absolutely not. In local election campaigning you say

you would restore cuts to policing, double prison places, restore cuts

to front line NHS, spend more on roads, how much would that cost? You

are obviously reading different documents to me. We are voting for

local councillors in district councils who have got little local

budgets. Every party in a manifesto puts his aspirations in it. Have you

read it? Of course I have, cover to cover, which is why I'm saying you

are misquoting it. By the way, on the bubble bursting, you told that

to Norman Smith of the BBC. 75% of British laws are now made in the

European Union. Now AstraZeneca is potentially going to be taken over

by Pfizer. The BBC is refusing to show the public that that decision

cannot be taken here but by an elected European commissioner, and

we sit and argue about what is in or not in the local election manifesto.

It is my job, but let me come on to AstraZeneca. Is it your view that a

British government should stop the takeover of AstraZeneca? It cannot.

Can we please get this clear. I sat next to Chuka Umunna the other day

at question time and he said what could and couldn't be done. He said

I am being studiously neutral, and the reason is we don't have this

power. That is what the European elections is about. Should France

have the takeover of the food company Danan? We seem to do things

to the Nth degree and nobody else does, perhaps because we have this

culture and we obey it. In your view, you don't think Pfizer should

be able to take over AstraZeneca? There is some good science within

AstraZeneca which is in danger of being asset stripped and lost.

Because it is run by a Swede and a Frenchman and most of its employees

are overseas. I understand that but there are still some good science

being produced here. What did you think of the Prime Minister saying

he would not form a government after the election unless he was able to

have a referendum in 2017? I sat here talking to you and you said to

me that David Cameron had given a cast-iron guarantee that if David

Cameron becomes Prime Minister he will have a referendum on the Lisbon

Treaty, but he didn't deliver on that. He knows that people struggle

to believe the renegotiation is worth a row of beans. He is saying

he will not form a government unless he can go forward with the

referendum. I know he is desperately trying to pretend to be Eurosceptic

whilst at the same time saying he will campaign for Britain to remain

in. In a sense, that is what this election is about. We have three

traditional parties, all of whom passionately believe in the

continued membership of the European Union and we have UKIP saying we

want trade and cooperation but there is a bigger and better world out

there. You are now travelling with I think four bodyguards, has this

affected you and your family life? I can't stand it. I've always wondered

about the place and on my own thing. Sadly we have a couple of

organisations out there headed up by senior Labour Party figures who

purport to be against fascism and extremism, who received funding from

the Department of communities, from the trade unions, who have acted in

a violent wait more than once. You are saying the Labour Party is

behind the threats? No, I said a taxpayer funded, trade union funded

and headed by senior Labour Party figures, and I'm happy for them to

come to my meetings and have an itinerant with me, but it's not so

much fun when there are banging you over the head. I is still keen to be

an MP? Yes, what UKIP will then do is target before the general

election next year for the one life be easier if you just went to the

Lords? That's the last thing I want to do. There's an awful lot to do.

Most of all, I will not rest until we are free from political union and

government from Brussels. Nigel Farage, thank you for being with us.

It's just gone 11.30am. You're watching the Sunday Politics. We say

goodbye to viewers in Scotland, who leave us now for Sunday Politics

Scotland. Coming up here in 20 minutes, our panel talks about the

big stories of the week. First though,

Hello once again from the Midlands. I'm Patrick Burns. More now on the

great European confrontation everyone's talking about. It's got

passion, excitement and a dramatic outcome. No, not that one. Although

we do have at least one beard on display. Today we are joined by four

of the candidates hoping to be among the seven new MEPs elected when we

go to the polls a week on Thursday. Dan Dalton for the Conservatives.

Sion Simon for Labour is our one bearded man. Jonathan Webber for the

Liberal Democrats. And James Carver for UKIP. A warm welcome to you all.

Once every five years comes our biggest collective experience of

democracy on a truly epic scale. One giant constituency of nearly six

million people, from the Cotswolds to the Staffordshire Moorlands, the

West Midlands is about to decide who'll represent us in the next

European Parliament. For viewers in Gloucestershire there's a similar

contest in South West England. Then there were six. Now there are

seven. The Lisbon Treaty has awarded us one more West Midlands MEP. And

the battle for that seventh seat could be crucial. For UKIP to have

three MEPs here, Bill Etheridge, number three on their party list,

must come seventh overall. But the Green Party's Deputy Leader, the

Dudley councillor Will Duckworth reckons a swing of under four

percent would put him in. Or could seventh go to one of three MEPs in

the outgoing Parliament? Phil Bennion, battling to help the

Liberal Democrats avoid the dreaded 'whitewash', and the two ex`UKIP

MEPs Mike Nattrass and Nikki Sinclaire, who now lead new anti`EU

parties. It's a dizzying assortment of ten parties for the voter to sort

out, with a clear divide emerging between those who broadly want to

keep us in the EU, maybe, and the rest who have a variety of reasons

for trying to get themselves in to Europe to get us out. One of the

parties is different from the others in that it is more left on the

political spectrum. In other cases it is to do with personalities.

Tensions that have arisen between UKIP NEP 's. While polling is a week

on Thursday, we'll have to wait until a fortnight tonight for the

results. They can't be declared until the polls have closed right

across the rest of the EU. `` MEPs. And here is that dizzying assortment

of names and parties as shown on the ballot paper. You can also look them

up on the BBC News Politics website. Our guests today represent the four

biggest parties contesting these elections, and this is the first of

our two live debates. For the Conservatives, it is a case

of having three MEPs going out. With the polls putting your party in

third place, you are not going to get in. We have still got ten days

until the election. We are confident we have a good message. We believe

the message is popular, the British people buy into what we are saying.

There is still ten days to go, we are hopeful that we will do better

than the polls suggest. Sion, I do not want to give the impression that

I am obsessing about the polls. Second place in the polls in a

region like this, so full of marginals given everything that has

happened in this country. Labour should be doing better than that.

Labour is clearly campaigning to be first in the selection. The polls

suggest you are not going to be. The polls, say one thing one week and at

another thing another. What is interesting is if you look at the

national polls, you see that UKIP is polled on 13% rather than 30. Why is

that? People treat this election as Nigel Farage wants them to treat it,

a referendum on the EU. This is not. This affects people and their lives

in the West Midlands. You told us why being in the EU was very much in

the Midlands interest, you are the party. Just look at the way the tide

is flowing. You have six of the 11 parties campaigning to pull Britain

out. That may be the case. I think you will find now that increasingly

the polls suggesting we need to concentrate on certain areas. This

is a region which depends on Europe for jobs, prosperity and economics.

Why is there talk about your party being whitewashed in these

elections? We are working very hard to make sure this is not the case.

We are putting forward a case now. It is not something you can change

overnight. The point that was made in my report earlier on is that the

danger from your point of view, the anti`EU vote can be split with so

many of these anti`European parties contesting the part of the electoral

marketplace that you hold. Consistent opinion polls show, Sion

said the battle for first place is between Labour and UKIP. It is clear

that UKIP is the main party that oppose it `` Britain's membership of

the EU. You did pretty well last night `` time. You are back to

around 5.4% in the West Midlands. You perform in European elections

and then it is back to politics as normal. Personally I could agree

with you on that. But it is a different political climate in

Europe `` in Britain just now. We are fighting 74% of local election

seats in this election. We think 2015 and the election then, will be

very interesting. We hear that voting for you is a protest vote.

You cannot do that because you are not one of the above. We have picked

up the protest vote in the past. The UKIP support as you have described

is a European centric element. I would be as apprised of it was more

than skin deep. UKIP say they are doing damage to you, Sion. Is not

just the Liberal Democrats and Tories. I think the point I am

making is that I think you will see a split on ballot papers because

people will vote Labour in the local elections because they want Labour.

They will vote UKIP in the European elections as a protest against so

many things. My point is that that is an important mistake people not

to make. This is not a referendum on the EU, they should vote according

to the kind of people that they want to represent them. What about

further Tories? I do not believe we're going come third. I don't want

to upset with opinion polls, but the arithmetic looks clear enough. We

will now soon enough what the actual result is. The European elections

when you have been in government for four years and you have had to take

difficult decisions on the economy to get it back onto, yes, often it

is a protest against the government. UKIP have done well in

the last European elections. What have they achieved? Will there be

ructions in the Tory party if you don't do well? I think in this case,

we know this is a difficult election. The party has bought into

the central message that we have, reform, referendum and... The issues

around Europe are almost technical, nuanced and complicated. UKIP and

many of the conversations around this issue are oversimplified. Dan

Mitre said his party has bought into it, but the British people have not.

`` might have said. Our position is directly opposite of theirs. It is

clear, we have said that we have reached a stage where we cannot

renegotiate. If we listen to what some of the EU leaders have said,

renegotiation is not an option. David Cameron has said he would not

sign up to Prime Minister to a government that did not sign up to a

referendum. The Liberal Democrats are the party for Europe. I joined

the party because of position on Europe. There is no question that

should there be material changes in the future then we would consider

this. Thank you very much indeed. The British National Party's

cupboard is bare here in our part of the country: no local councillors,

and no MEPs in the outgoing Parliament. That's even though they

won nearly nine per cent of the vote here last time, higher than in the

North West where Nick Griffin was elected. Our BBC Stoke Political

Reporter Phil McCann has been charting their fortunes since then.

Nick Griffin, ladies and gentlemen. The BNP was riding high in 2009. In

2010 it launched its general election manifesto in

Stoke`on`Trent, which it used to call the jewel in its crown, because

nine of its 16 Midlands councillors where in the city. They won support

partly by being visible in communities here, by running bingo

clubs. So we came back here to see if views have changed now the BNP

have gone. Well, if they want to send the lot back, then yes, I am

with them. Don't you think we have got enough in this country? We can't

hardly look after our own, can we? Now the British National Party has

no councillors here in Stoke`on`Trent, or anywhere in the

Midlands. Nationwide, it only has two. One of its MEPs has left the

party and its membership has halved. But over the last few years, things

have been going wrong for the BNP. It has had a cash crisis after

losing a legal challenge through its all`white membership policy and it

has been beset by internal disagreements, including from their

former leader in Stoke`on`Trent who left saying some party members were

Holocaust deniers. And to make things harder for the party, its

number one candidate in the region, has a suspended prison sentence for

racially aggrevated harassment after comments he made about black people

after the 2011 riots. But they are still out pounding the streets

looking for votes. Our view, our party's view on mass immigration to

Britian is that it is an illegal process. It is illegal. It has never

been sanctioned by the British people and it is a project of social

engineering and social change on a national level, involving vast

number of foreigners. That should have been taken to the people. It is

a message from an extremist party but a message that has now become

more mainstream, while the BNP have been left on the margins.

Phil McCann. And next week we'll be hearing from our two former UKIP

MEPs in the outgoing Parliament, Mike Nattrass and Nikki Sinclaire,

who're now heading new anti`EU parties. Jim, UKIP make some play

that says UKIP bands ex`BNP people from standing for you. We have had a

huge media campaign against us. It seems to me completely unfair that

the media and our political opponents say that if you discuss

this issue of open`door immigration which only can be challenged from a

position outside the European union, is you are racist. A quick

reflection from others of you. I am delighted. I could it `` not put it

more simply than that. It is good that we have a discussion on

immigration on this country more openly and that people feel more lax

about. I think it is better if we are going to have a single issue

emigration party, it is better for it to be a party like UKIP which

doesn't have that overtone of militarism and racism and nastier

people like the BNP. `` immigration. It shows how important it is to get

out and vote for the European election. It is important that we

get people to vote, whoever they are voting for. Now our regular round`up

of the political week in the Midlands in 60 seconds.

It's a campaign special again this week, brought to us by BBC WM's

Lunchtime presenter, Caroline Martin.

Former Coventry Labour MP Dave Nellist is the lead candidate for

the no to EU party in the West Midlands. They have a left wing take

on Euroscepticism. Their next target, according to the Financial

Times, is the ?450 billion public sector of health and education

across Europe, that they want to open up to competition to private

companies. We are dead against that. The Green party was in Solihull for

the national launch of its local election campaign. Leader, Natalie

Bennett said she believes they can make inroads in the West Midlands.

Elsewhere in Solihull, at the local farmers' market there was confusion

over what individual parties stand for in Europe and who some of the

candidates are. What about this one? Do you recognise that man? Did he

not have a thing on television? Jerry Springer? Jerry Springer,

that's right. You can see how it might happen, by the way. Mike

Nattrass is the one without the specs in case you were wondering.

We are having a laugh, Sion. It makes a serious point how

low`profile the European Parliament is. How do you combat this

perception that it is a repository for retreads and reject

politicians? It is not surprisingly people have not heard of their MEP.

We have nearly 6 million people in our region. The only way people will

have heard of their MEP is if the activities of the European

Parliament were regularly reported in the media. We are constantly on

the lookout. I am not having a go it you, Patrick. I am saying that the

entire British media does not cover very important work that goes on day

after day, week after week in Europe at all. So how will people ever hear

of their MEPs? There is a real point that there is something uninspiring

about the lack of linkage, who represents our region in a

Parliament of this scale? It is a great shame that over the years we

have not had the attention and virginity needed. `` opportunity.

The huge amount that is done through Europe, it is not fed through to us

all the time. If there was more public awareness, there would be

more dialogue. What would you do, Jim, to build public awareness? Your

party has been accused of not being the most active in terms of the

business that you attend? It is the same question with regard to all

parties. Some other MEPs are ready high performing in the parliament,

some are not. What we want to do is seek our withdrawal from the

European Union, let's make no secret about it. If I do find myself

elected, 92% of the population of this country cannot name their MEP.

If I am elected, I will be elected to a chamber as a parliamentarian,

the only Parliament in Western Europe which will not bail to

instigate legislation. It looks ironic that you are trying to get

yourself into the European Parliament and yet the grandson well

increasingly `` ground swell, is all about and in out referendum with the

assumption that it is a party that is heading out. The key part of

policy is we want to renegotiate our relationship with Europe. We want to

bring powers back. David Cameron has made it clear the areas we want to

renegotiate. That is the essence of policy. After that we should put

that to the British people to decide. That is not a party position

of being in or out, that is about letting the people decide. At salute

the fascinating and we could go on. Next week we will do something very

much like this again. My thanks to Dan, Sion, Jonathan and

Jim. And we'll be re`dressing our gender`balance next week, when we'll

Conservatives, Neena Gill for Labour Conservatives, Neena Gill for Labour

and Jill Seymour for UKIP, with the Liberal Democrat MEP Phil Bennion,

the only other man among us. And with less than a year to go to the

General Election, we'll examine how this month's local elections could

provide pointers in our key marginals, including a report from

Tamworth which is a prime Labour target. This though is where we

rejoin Andrew Neil. the website now. Now it is back to

you, Andrew. Welcome back, let's go straight to

our panel. What did you make of Mr Alexander's defence of the Labour

party election broadcast? It is difficult for them because they

started by saying they were not going to do negative campaigning and

they have thrown that away for an advert which is funny but crude in

the class war sense. He didn't look thrilled to be defending it. There

is a page in Tony Blair's memoirs talking about negative campaigning,

and he says that anything too extreme turns off the average voter

so his line of attack on Hague was funny jokes but... I think this

failed the Blair test, it was too vicious. If your strategy is to

shore up your car vote, that advert was genius. If your strategy is to

reach out to a broader number of voters, Middle Britain, then that

advert was a complete disaster. It looks like there is a lot of

negativity and smears all round in the next year. That definitely looks

the way we are going. They will be essentially trying to re-run by --

the American election. I am slightly puzzled why we cannot have our own

election gurus who live here and understand the country. I should

point out that the ?450 extra VAT that was claimed in that Labour

poster, both Ed Balls and the Labour Treasury team have said that is ?450

per year. Nonsense the VAT rise, one year. I should also point out that

Nigel Farage said to Norman Smith, the BBC is always reliable Norman

Smith that if you run in Newark and lost the bubble would burst. I

should also point out that although a number of the tax rises I

mentioned on council tax, minimum wage tax and some other things that

UKIP wants to cuts, a couple of these are in the local manifesto but

several are not. They are on the UKIP website, which is still current

and dated 2014. We like to make sure we are absolutely right. Let's talk

about Nick Clegg and Michael Gove and the latest spat. Let me show you

this headline in the Observer this morning. From both the Independent,

he called him a zealot, lunatic is of -- another word. Do we take this

seriously? It hinges on this question of what counts as an area

of need in education. The Lib Dems say an area of need is one where

there are not enough school places to meet local demand. He says it can

also be a place where there are surplus places but that is for a

reason. Local places don't trust those schools to do a good job for

their kids. It surprises me because there isn't a yawning distance

between David Laws and Michael Gove. David Laws has found himself between

a rock and a hard place because I asked -- as I understand it most Lib

Dems don't like the free schools but Mr laws was quite sympathetic to it

and he is now having to this respect it. When they asked people who are

the most hated politicians in a poll were this week, Michael Gove is off

the charts, far above David Cameron or George Osborne. This is

tit-for-tat war. The Liberal Democrats believe Michael Gove had a

hand in leaking the document that showed Nick Clegg was opposing the

tougher Chris Grayling position on knife crime. They are saying there

were Cabinet ministers who never usually attend the sub Cabinet

meeting, they turned up and the document is leaked so what we are

getting is tit for tat on that. It is inevitable but it is not good for

either side of the Coalition. Voters will look at it and say it is

politics of the playground. I read in the Mail on Sunday this morning

that some Tory insiders are accusing Lib Dems of spreading rumours about

the camera in marriage. The rebuttals of education story is that

the free school meals is sucking money away. I always thought they

would work together without fuss and yet it has been more the source of

disagreement then I would have expected a couple of years ago. Is

it serious? It is serious obviously, using that language, but is it fatal

for the Coalition? I think it is a road bump because I don't think

anybody wants to dissolve the Coalition. It is a challenge for

Labour because where do they stand on the free schools? They invented

the Academy programme so it is difficult for them to take a

hands-off approach at this stage. There was a danger for Michael Gove

that he looks ideological but the danger for the Liberal Democrats is

that they are breaking the rules for the Coalition they said that they

wouldn't break which is that they looked like opposition in

government. Is Michael Gove's position safe? Very safe. If he

moves in a reshuffle that will be to a a job. That's all for today. The

Daily Politics will be back on BBC Two at lunchtime from Tuesday

onwards. I'll be back here on BBC One at 11am next week. Remember if

it's Sunday, it's the Sunday Politics.

What if the person that killed her...

I found out she'd been taking drugs. Just let me explain.

You wasn't at that party all night. Yeah, I was.

What was she even doing there? Oi, you keep your mouth shut.

She was exchanging a significant number of texts and calls

with someone in the weeks leading up to her death.

It's like we didn't really know her at all.