Browse content similar to 21/09/2014. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Good morning from Manchester, where the Labour Party are gathering | :00:09. | :00:12. | |
for their annual conference as British politics adjusts to what | :00:13. | :00:15. | |
the rest of the UK. in Scotland might mean for | :00:16. | :00:53. | |
Scotland's decision to vote 'no means more powers heading north | :00:54. | :00:59. | |
But what about Home Rule for England? | :01:00. | :01:06. | |
Independence for Scotland has been his life's work. Alex Salmond tells | :01:07. | :01:11. | |
us why he is stepping down after losing Thursday's vote. And we've | :01:12. | :01:16. | |
And in the Midlands: people who want to | :01:17. | :01:22. | |
Scotland's had its say. Now what price Devo England? | :01:23. | :01:26. | |
And the garden city revisitdd ` is this the answer to | :01:27. | :01:28. | |
This and more in just over half an hour. | :01:29. | :01:32. | |
powers and more freedom to spend. But what is the next devolution step | :01:33. | :01:45. | |
for the capital? With me, the best and brightest political panel in the | :01:46. | :01:48. | |
business, at least that is what they pay me to say every week. Nick Watt, | :01:49. | :01:53. | |
Helen Lewis and, this week, we have done some devolution ourselves to | :01:54. | :01:58. | |
other areas, and we have Sam Coates from the times. The union survived, | :01:59. | :02:04. | |
but only at the cost of more powers for the Scottish parliament and | :02:05. | :02:07. | |
enshrining the formula that gives Scotland a privileged position when | :02:08. | :02:11. | |
it comes to public spending, which has MPs on both sides of the Commons | :02:12. | :02:17. | |
of in arms. The Scottish question has been answered for now. Suddenly, | :02:18. | :02:21. | |
the English question takes centre stage, doesn't it? Absolutely. It | :02:22. | :02:31. | |
has a grubby feel, when that vow was put to the Scottish people, that | :02:32. | :02:35. | |
they hoped would swing the vote there was nothing about English only | :02:36. | :02:41. | |
votes. It was unconditional? The Tory proposal did talk very core | :02:42. | :02:45. | |
justly about looking at the proposals by a former clerk of the | :02:46. | :02:48. | |
House of Commons that looked at this issue. That was very cautious. - | :02:49. | :02:57. | |
cautiously. These proposals will not get through Westminster unless David | :02:58. | :03:00. | |
Cameron addresses the English-only issue. You look at people like Chris | :03:01. | :03:04. | |
Grayling in the Sunday Telegraph. Alistair Darling on the Andrew Marr | :03:05. | :03:07. | |
Show said you could not have a link between what you are giving Holyrood | :03:08. | :03:11. | |
and English-only MPs. Back on says, is welshing on the deal. -- comic he | :03:12. | :03:21. | |
They were furious that he gave away these tax powers and inscribed the | :03:22. | :03:28. | |
Barnett formula. They said they weren't going to vote for it. It is | :03:29. | :03:37. | |
a shameless piece of opportunism. Now they can say that Labour are the | :03:38. | :03:40. | |
ones that don't trust you and don't want to give you more powers. He | :03:41. | :03:44. | |
knows it is going to be a tight timetable. The idea of getting a | :03:45. | :03:48. | |
draft of this out by Burns Night, most people would say, given they | :03:49. | :03:52. | |
had six years to set up Scottish parliament, the idea we will solve | :03:53. | :03:55. | |
these huge constitutional questions in four months is absurd. But they | :03:56. | :04:03. | |
don't care about the constitutional questions, the one they care about | :04:04. | :04:08. | |
is English votes? There is a simple reason they won that. If you look at | :04:09. | :04:12. | |
the MPs in England alone, the Tories have a majority of 59, an | :04:13. | :04:18. | |
overwhelming bias, and if you strip out Wales Scotland and Northern | :04:19. | :04:20. | |
Ireland, so this has become a partisan issue. The question is | :04:21. | :04:24. | |
whether David Cameron can follow through on the promise. He said he | :04:25. | :04:30. | |
would link the two Scottish powers, but it's not clear you will get | :04:31. | :04:35. | |
either before the general election. It's not but the purpose is to cause | :04:36. | :04:39. | |
Labour Party discomfort, and it is. You can see with date -- Ed Miliband | :04:40. | :04:45. | |
this morning, they find it very hard to answer the question, why | :04:46. | :04:48. | |
shouldn't there be English votes for English laws? Ed Miliband this | :04:49. | :04:53. | |
morning was saying how London MPs get to vote on London transport and | :04:54. | :04:59. | |
English MPs don't outside of London and it is confusing, but Labour is | :05:00. | :05:02. | |
in a difficult position. They were before the Prime Minister made his | :05:03. | :05:07. | |
announcement. The yes side triumphed in Glasgow, the largest city in | :05:08. | :05:11. | |
Scotland, a Labour heartland, and the Prime Minister is saying that if | :05:12. | :05:14. | |
Labour don't agree to this by the time of the general election, he is | :05:15. | :05:18. | |
handing a gift to the SNP, that that would be the party that the natural | :05:19. | :05:22. | |
Labour voters would vote for to see off the plan. It's not just Tory | :05:23. | :05:27. | |
backbenchers. There are Labour backbenchers saying there should be | :05:28. | :05:30. | |
in which bodes for English laws Even people in the Shadow Cabinet | :05:31. | :05:34. | |
think it is right. The cases unarguable. If you say her chewing a | :05:35. | :05:40. | |
partisan way, you can't sell it to the country. Ed Miliband is on | :05:41. | :05:43. | |
course to have a majority of about 20, and you take the 40 English MPs, | :05:44. | :05:50. | |
and he hasn't got it. This is a coalition government where the | :05:51. | :05:54. | |
Conservatives haven't got really to be in charge, they have put in | :05:55. | :05:58. | |
sweeping laws. Labour should probably take the bullet on this | :05:59. | :06:02. | |
one. Let's leave it for the moment. But don't go away. As they struggle | :06:03. | :06:09. | |
to keep the United Kingdom in one piece, David Cameron, Ed Miliband | :06:10. | :06:12. | |
and Nick Clegg promised to keep something called the Barnett | :06:13. | :06:13. | |
Formula. It wasn't invented in Barnet, | :06:14. | :06:16. | |
but by man called Joel Barnett. And it's how | :06:17. | :06:18. | |
the UK government decides how much public money to spend in Scotland, | :06:19. | :06:21. | |
Wales and Northern Ireland. It's controversial, | :06:22. | :06:23. | |
because it's led to public spending being typically 20% higher | :06:24. | :06:25. | |
in Scotland than in England. Well, some English MPs | :06:26. | :06:27. | |
aren't happy about that. I'm joined now by the | :06:28. | :06:29. | |
Tory MP Dominic Raab. Welcome to the Sunday Politics. How | :06:30. | :06:42. | |
can the Prime Minister scrap the Barnett Formula when he has just | :06:43. | :06:46. | |
about to keep it on the front page of a major Scottish newspaper? If we | :06:47. | :06:52. | |
are going to see financial devolution to Scotland, more powers | :06:53. | :06:55. | |
of tax and spend, it's impossible not to look at the impact on the | :06:56. | :06:58. | |
wider union, and there have been promises made to the Scottish and we | :06:59. | :07:03. | |
should do our best to deliver them, but there have been promises made to | :07:04. | :07:06. | |
the English, Welsh and Northern Irish. If you look at the Barnett | :07:07. | :07:10. | |
Formula which allocates revenue across the UK, it is massively | :07:11. | :07:14. | |
prejudicial to those other parts. We have double the number of ambulance | :07:15. | :07:18. | |
staff and nurses compared to England. The regional breakdown is | :07:19. | :07:22. | |
more stark with double the amount spent on social housing in Scotland | :07:23. | :07:26. | |
than in Yorkshire and the North West and the Midlands. The Welsh do very | :07:27. | :07:29. | |
poorly on social services for the elderly. What are we saying? That | :07:30. | :07:33. | |
they need our children, patients and the elderly are worth less than the | :07:34. | :07:39. | |
Scots? That's not the way to have a sustainable solution. I understand | :07:40. | :07:44. | |
the distribution impact of the Barnett Formula, but Westminster | :07:45. | :07:47. | |
politicians are already held in contempt by a lot of people and to | :07:48. | :07:52. | |
rat on such a public pledge would confirm their worst fears. Your | :07:53. | :07:58. | |
leader would have secured the union on a false prospectus. First of | :07:59. | :08:02. | |
all, it's clear from the Ashcroft poll that the offer made in the | :08:03. | :08:07. | |
Scottish newspaper had zero effect and if anything was | :08:08. | :08:10. | |
counter-productive to the overall result because two thirds of swing | :08:11. | :08:12. | |
voters in the last few days voted for independence. But we can't keep | :08:13. | :08:17. | |
proceeding without looking at the promises made to the English. We | :08:18. | :08:23. | |
said in the referendum that we would have English laws -- English votes | :08:24. | :08:27. | |
on English issues. The Liberal Democrats, in their manifesto, | :08:28. | :08:30. | |
pledged to scrap the Barnett Formula. We have to reconcile all of | :08:31. | :08:34. | |
the promises to all parts of the UK, and Alex Salmond talks about a | :08:35. | :08:38. | |
Westminster stitch up, but what he's trying to do is, with gross double | :08:39. | :08:43. | |
standards, is in French stitch up in rapid time, which would be grossly | :08:44. | :08:49. | |
unfair to the rest of the rest of UK -- is contrive stitch up. What is | :08:50. | :08:55. | |
unfair about the current spending formula? The extra money Scotland | :08:56. | :09:01. | |
gets from Barnet, is covered by the oil revenues it sends to London | :09:02. | :09:06. | |
Scotland is only getting back on spending what it pays in tax. There | :09:07. | :09:09. | |
is no analysis out there that suggests it is the same amount. | :09:10. | :09:16. | |
Having voted to stay in the UK. Let me give you the figures. Last year | :09:17. | :09:21. | |
revenues were 4.5 billion, and the Barnett Formula was worth 4.5 | :09:22. | :09:29. | |
billion to Scotland. It is awash. A huge amount of British taxpayer | :09:30. | :09:32. | |
investment has gone into extracting North Sea oil, and if we move to a | :09:33. | :09:36. | |
more federal system, we would need to look at things like the | :09:37. | :09:39. | |
allocation of resources, but the Barnett Formula has been lambasted | :09:40. | :09:44. | |
as a national embarrassment and grossly unfair by its Labour Party | :09:45. | :09:48. | |
architect, Lord Barnett. So what we need is to change this mechanism so | :09:49. | :09:53. | |
it is based on need. The irony is, when the Scots allocate Avenue to | :09:54. | :09:57. | |
the -- revenue to their local authorities, it's done on a needs | :09:58. | :10:00. | |
basis, and what is good for Scotland must be good for the rest of | :10:01. | :10:05. | |
Britain. One final question. The Prime Minister is now making his | :10:06. | :10:10. | |
promise of more home rule for Scotland conditional on English | :10:11. | :10:13. | |
votes for English laws. Why didn't he spell out the condition when he | :10:14. | :10:17. | |
made his bow to the Scottish people? Why has this condition been tacked | :10:18. | :10:21. | |
on by the Prime Minister? In the heat of the referendum debate lots | :10:22. | :10:27. | |
of things were said, but the truth is that Parliament must also look at | :10:28. | :10:31. | |
this and make its views known, and English MPs as well. You will find | :10:32. | :10:36. | |
that conservative as well as a lot of Labour MPs would say, we cannot | :10:37. | :10:39. | |
just rush through a deal that is unsustainable. It has to be good for | :10:40. | :10:45. | |
all parts of Britain. Yes, we should deliver on our promises for more | :10:46. | :10:48. | |
devolution to Scotland, but let s deliver on promises to be English, | :10:49. | :10:51. | |
and Northern Irish. Why are they locked out of the debate? Let's | :10:52. | :10:56. | |
leave it there. Thank you for joining us. | :10:57. | :10:58. | |
The man responsible for taking Scottish nationalism from | :10:59. | :11:00. | |
the political fringes to within touching distance of victory, Alex | :11:01. | :11:02. | |
Salmond, has a flair for dramatic announcements, and he gave us | :11:03. | :11:05. | |
another on Friday when he revealed he's to stand | :11:06. | :11:07. | |
Friends and foes have paid tribute to his extraordinary career. | :11:08. | :11:12. | |
In a moment I'll be speaking to Alex Salmond, | :11:13. | :11:14. | |
but first here's Adam Fleming with the story of the vote that broke | :11:15. | :11:17. | |
The BBC's HQ on the Clyde, the whole place converted into a studio for | :11:18. | :11:39. | |
Scotland's big night. You know what you need for big events, big | :11:40. | :11:42. | |
screens, and there are loads of them here. That one is three stories | :11:43. | :11:46. | |
high, and this is the one Jeremy Vine uses for his graphics. The | :11:47. | :11:50. | |
other thing that is massive is the turnout in the referendum, it is | :11:51. | :11:55. | |
enormous. It was around 85% of the electorate, that is 4 million ballot | :11:56. | :12:00. | |
papers. First to declare Clackmannanshire. No, 19,000. 1 ,000 | :12:01. | :12:12. | |
and 36. The first Noel of the night, and there were plenty more. -- the | :12:13. | :12:18. | |
first no vote. The better together campaigners were over the moon, like | :12:19. | :12:22. | |
Jim Murphy, who had campaigned in 100 different towns. I don't want to | :12:23. | :12:27. | |
sound schmaltzy, but it makes you think more of Scotland. It makes you | :12:28. | :12:37. | |
small tree. Yes, 194,779. Around five a.m., the Yes campaign | :12:38. | :12:39. | |
applauded as they won Scotland's biggest city, Glasgow. Dundee went | :12:40. | :12:46. | |
their way as well, but just for areas out of 32 opted for | :12:47. | :12:49. | |
independence. How many copies have you had? This is my second cup of | :12:50. | :12:54. | |
tea on the morning -- how many copies. He was enjoying the | :12:55. | :12:59. | |
refreshments on offer, but the yes campaigners were not in a happy | :13:00. | :13:04. | |
place. We are in the bowels of one of the parts of the British | :13:05. | :13:08. | |
establishment that, I've got to say, has probably done its job in this | :13:09. | :13:13. | |
referendum, because I think the BBC has been critical in shoring up the | :13:14. | :13:18. | |
establishment and have supported the no campaign as best as they could. | :13:19. | :13:23. | |
But there was no arguing with the numbers, and by sunrise, the BBC | :13:24. | :13:28. | |
called it. Scotland has voted no in this referendum on independence The | :13:29. | :13:34. | |
result, in Fife, has taken the no campaign over the line and the | :13:35. | :13:36. | |
official result of this referendum is a no. There we go, on a screen | :13:37. | :13:43. | |
three stories high, Scotland has said no to independence. As soon as | :13:44. | :13:48. | |
the newsprint was driving north of the border, the focus shifted south | :13:49. | :13:52. | |
as the Prime Minister pledged more devolution for Scotland but only if | :13:53. | :13:57. | |
it happened everywhere else as well. Just as Scotland will vote | :13:58. | :13:59. | |
separately in the Scottish Parliament on their issues of tax, | :14:00. | :14:04. | |
spending on welfare, so to England, as well as Wales and Northern | :14:05. | :14:08. | |
Ireland, should be able to vote on these issues, and all this must take | :14:09. | :14:13. | |
place in tandem with and at the same pace as the settlement for Scotland. | :14:14. | :14:18. | |
It began to dawn on us all that we might end up doing this again. See | :14:19. | :14:27. | |
you for an English referendum soon? Northern Ireland. There could be | :14:28. | :14:30. | |
another one in Scotland. But not next weekend? Give me a break. There | :14:31. | :14:37. | |
was no break for Nick, because Alex Salmond came up with one last twist, | :14:38. | :14:42. | |
his resignation was as leader, my time is nearly over. But the | :14:43. | :14:47. | |
Scotland, the campaign continues, and the dream shall never die. So, | :14:48. | :14:55. | |
the referendum settled, the Constitution in flux, and a leader | :14:56. | :14:57. | |
gone. All in a night work. Alex Salmond is to stand down as | :14:58. | :15:07. | |
First Minister of Scotland. He shows no signs of going quietly. Last | :15:08. | :15:11. | |
night, I spoke to the SNP leader in Aberdeen and began by asking him if | :15:12. | :15:15. | |
it was always his intention to resign if he lost the referendum. I | :15:16. | :15:20. | |
certainly have thought about it Andrew. But for most of the | :15:21. | :15:23. | |
referendum campaign I thought we were going to win. So, I was... | :15:24. | :15:29. | |
Yeah, maybe a few months back I considered it. But I only finally | :15:30. | :15:33. | |
made up my mind on Friday lunch time. Did you agonise over the | :15:34. | :15:41. | |
decision to stand down? I'm not really an agonising person. When you | :15:42. | :15:51. | |
get beaten in a referendum, you have to consider standing down as a real | :15:52. | :15:56. | |
possibility. Taking responsibility and politics has gone out of fashion | :15:57. | :16:00. | |
but there is an aspect, if you need a campaign, and I was the leader of | :16:01. | :16:05. | |
the Yes Campaign, and you don't win, you have to contemplate if you are | :16:06. | :16:09. | |
the best person to lead future political campaigns. In my | :16:10. | :16:12. | |
judgement, it was time for the SNP and the broader yes movement, the | :16:13. | :16:17. | |
National movement of Scotland, they would benefit from new leadership. | :16:18. | :16:21. | |
In your heart of hearts, through the campaign, as referendum on day | :16:22. | :16:25. | |
approached, you did think you were going to win? Yes, I did. I thought | :16:26. | :16:31. | |
for most of the last month of the campaign, we were in with a real | :16:32. | :16:39. | |
chance. In the last week I thought we had pulled ahead. I thought the | :16:40. | :16:42. | |
decisive aspect wasn't so much the fear mongering, the scaremongering, | :16:43. | :16:48. | |
the kitchen sink being thrown at Scotland by orchestration from | :16:49. | :16:51. | |
Downing Street, I thought the real thing was the pledge, the vow, the | :16:52. | :16:55. | |
offer of something else. A lot of people that had been moving across | :16:56. | :17:00. | |
to independence saw within that a reason to say, well, we can get | :17:01. | :17:03. | |
something anyway without the perceived risks that were being | :17:04. | :17:11. | |
festooned upon them. You were only five points away from your dream. | :17:12. | :17:18. | |
You won Scotland's largest city There is now the prospect of more | :17:19. | :17:23. | |
power. Why not stay and be an enhanced First Minister? Well, it is | :17:24. | :17:29. | |
a good phrase. I'm not going away, though. I'm still going to be part | :17:30. | :17:33. | |
of the political process. In Scotland, if people in Aberdeenshire | :17:34. | :17:37. | |
wish to keep electing me, that is what I will do. But I don't have to | :17:38. | :17:42. | |
be First Minister of Scotland, leader of the Yes Campaign, to see | :17:43. | :17:46. | |
that achieved. The SNP is a strong and powerful leadership team. There | :17:47. | :17:52. | |
are a number of people that would do a fantastic job as leader of the | :17:53. | :17:55. | |
party and First Minister. I've been leader of the party for the last 24 | :17:56. | :18:02. | |
years, I think it is time to give somebody else a shot. There are many | :18:03. | :18:05. | |
able-bodied people that will do that well. -- many able people that will | :18:06. | :18:09. | |
do that well. I'm still part of the national movement, arguing to take | :18:10. | :18:17. | |
this forward. I think you are right, the question, one of the irony is | :18:18. | :18:20. | |
developing so quickly after the referendum, it might be those that | :18:21. | :18:24. | |
lost on Thursday end up as the political winners and those that won | :18:25. | :18:30. | |
end up as the losers. When we met just for the vote, a couple of days | :18:31. | :18:34. | |
before the vote, you said to me that there was very little you would | :18:35. | :18:38. | |
change about the campaign strategy. Is that still your view? Yes. There | :18:39. | :18:45. | |
are one or two things, like any campaign, there is no such thing as | :18:46. | :18:50. | |
a pitcher campaign. I would refer not to dwell on such things. I will | :18:51. | :18:56. | |
leave of my book, which will be called 100 Days, coming out before | :18:57. | :19:00. | |
Christmas. Once you read that, I will probably reveal the things I | :19:01. | :19:03. | |
would have changed. Basically, broadly, this was an extraordinary | :19:04. | :19:08. | |
campaign. Not just a political campaign, but a campaign involving | :19:09. | :19:12. | |
the grassroots of Scotland in an energising, empowering way, the like | :19:13. | :19:17. | |
of which in on of us have witnessed. It was an extraordinary phenomenon | :19:18. | :19:20. | |
of grassroots campaigning, which carried the Yes Campaign so far | :19:21. | :19:26. | |
almost to victory. If Rupert Murdoch put his Scottish Sun behind you | :19:27. | :19:37. | |
would have that made the difference? If ifs and ands were pots and | :19:38. | :19:44. | |
pans... Why did he not? I would not say that, you have form with him | :19:45. | :19:48. | |
that I do not have. I'm not sure about that. I was very encouraged. | :19:49. | :19:56. | |
The coverage, not in the other papers, The Times, which was | :19:57. | :19:59. | |
extremely hostile to Scottish independence, but the coverage in | :20:00. | :20:04. | |
the Scottish Sun was fair, balanced and we certainly got a very fair | :20:05. | :20:13. | |
kick of the ball. In newspapers I would settle for no editorial line | :20:14. | :20:16. | |
and just balanced coverage. We certainly got that from the Scottish | :20:17. | :20:20. | |
Sun and that was an encouragement. I think you saw from his tweets, | :20:21. | :20:26. | |
certainly in his heart he would have liked to have seen a move forward in | :20:27. | :20:36. | |
Scotland and I like that. He said if you lost, that was it, referendum | :20:37. | :20:41. | |
wise, for a generation, which he defined as about 20 years. Is that | :20:42. | :20:47. | |
still your view? Yes, it is. It has always been my view. It's a personal | :20:48. | :20:51. | |
view. There are always things that can change in politics. If the UK | :20:52. | :20:56. | |
moved out of the European Union for example, that would be the sort of | :20:57. | :20:58. | |
circumstance. Some people would argue with Westminster parties, and | :20:59. | :21:02. | |
I'm actually not surprised that they are reneging on commitments, I am | :21:03. | :21:08. | |
just surprised by the speed they are doing it. They seem to be totally | :21:09. | :21:12. | |
shameless in these matters. You don't think they will meet the vow? | :21:13. | :21:18. | |
You don't think there will keep to their vow? They are not, for that | :21:19. | :21:22. | |
essential reason you saw developing on Friday. The Prime Minister wants | :21:23. | :21:27. | |
to link change in Scotland to change in England. He wants to do that | :21:28. | :21:30. | |
because he has difficulty in carrying his backbenchers on this | :21:31. | :21:35. | |
and they are under pressure from UKIP. The Labour leadership are | :21:36. | :21:38. | |
frightened of any changes in England which leave them without a majority | :21:39. | :21:41. | |
in the House of Commons on English matters. I would not call it an | :21:42. | :21:46. | |
irresistible force and immovable object, one is resistible and one is | :21:47. | :21:52. | |
movable. They are at loggerheads. The vow, I think, was something | :21:53. | :21:56. | |
cooked up in desperation for the last few days of the campaign. I | :21:57. | :21:58. | |
think everybody in Scotland now engines that. -- recognises that. It | :21:59. | :22:05. | |
was the people that were persuaded to vote no that word tricked, | :22:06. | :22:09. | |
effectively. They are the ones that are really angry. Ed Miliband and | :22:10. | :22:15. | |
David Cameron, if they are watching this, I would be more worried about | :22:16. | :22:22. | |
the anger of the no voters than the opinion of the Yes Vote on that | :22:23. | :22:29. | |
matter. If independence is on the back burner for now, what would you | :22:30. | :22:35. | |
advise your successor's strategy for the SNP to be? I would advise him or | :22:36. | :22:40. | |
her not to listen to advice from their predecessor. A new leader | :22:41. | :22:48. | |
brings forward a new strategy. I think this is, for the SNP, a very | :22:49. | :22:52. | |
favourable political time. There have been 5000 new members joined | :22:53. | :22:59. | |
since Thursday. That is about a 25% increase in the party membership in | :23:00. | :23:02. | |
the space of a few days. More than that, I think this is an opportunity | :23:03. | :23:15. | |
for the SNP. But my goal is the opportunity for Scotland. I would | :23:16. | :23:18. | |
repeat I am not retiring from politics. I'm standing down as First | :23:19. | :23:24. | |
Minister of Scotland. On Friday coming back to the north-east of | :23:25. | :23:28. | |
Scotland, I passed through Dundee, which voted yes by a stud -- | :23:29. | :23:35. | |
substantial margin. There was a line of a song I couldn't get out of my | :23:36. | :23:39. | |
head, and old Jacobite song, rewritten by Robert Burns, the last | :23:40. | :23:47. | |
line is, so, tremble falls wakes, in the midst of your glee, you've not | :23:48. | :23:55. | |
seen the last of my bonnets and me. So you are staying a member of the | :23:56. | :23:58. | |
Scottish Parliament, shall we see you again in the House of Commons? | :23:59. | :24:03. | |
What does the future hold for you? Membership of Scottish Parliament is | :24:04. | :24:10. | |
dependent on the good folk of Aberdeenshire east. If they choose | :24:11. | :24:14. | |
to elect me, I will be delighted to serve. I've always loved being a | :24:15. | :24:19. | |
constituency member of Parliament, I have known some front line | :24:20. | :24:21. | |
politicians that regarded that as a chore. I'm not saying they didn t do | :24:22. | :24:26. | |
it properly, I am sure they did But I love it. You get distilled wisdom | :24:27. | :24:32. | |
from being a constituency member of Parliament that helps you keep your | :24:33. | :24:35. | |
feet on the ground and have a good observation as to what matters to | :24:36. | :24:39. | |
people. I have no difficulty with being a constituent member of | :24:40. | :24:44. | |
Parliament. Can you promise me it will never be Lord Salmond? Yes | :24:45. | :24:55. | |
Thanks for joining us. Great pleasure, thank you. Now, the | :24:56. | :25:03. | |
independence referendum is over the next big electoral test is a general | :25:04. | :25:07. | |
election. It is just over seven months away. In a moment I will be | :25:08. | :25:13. | |
talking to Chuka Umunna, but what are the political views of the men | :25:14. | :25:17. | |
and women fighting to win seats for the Labour Party? The Sunday | :25:18. | :25:22. | |
Politics has commissioned an exclusive survey of the | :25:23. | :25:27. | |
Parliamentary candidates. Six out of seven Labour candidates | :25:28. | :25:29. | |
say that the level of public spending during their last period of | :25:30. | :25:33. | |
office was about right. 40% of them want a Labour government to raise | :25:34. | :25:38. | |
taxes to reduce the budget deficit. 18% favour cutting spending. On | :25:39. | :25:42. | |
immigration, just 15% think that the number coming to Britain is too | :25:43. | :25:48. | |
high. Only 7% say we generous to immigrants. Three in ten candidates | :25:49. | :25:51. | |
believe the party relationship with trade unions is not close enough. | :25:52. | :25:55. | |
Not that we spoke to think it is too close. Or than half of the | :25:56. | :26:01. | |
candidates say want to scrap the nuclear deterrent, Trident. Four in | :26:02. | :26:04. | |
five want to nationalise the railways. If they are after a change | :26:05. | :26:10. | |
of leader, Yvette Cooper was their preferred choice. Chuka Umunna came | :26:11. | :26:19. | |
in fourth. And he joins me now for the Sunday interview. | :26:20. | :26:23. | |
Why is Labour choosing so many left-wing candidates? I don't think | :26:24. | :26:30. | |
I accept the characterisation of candidates being left wing. I don't | :26:31. | :26:33. | |
think your viewers see politics in terms of what is left and right I | :26:34. | :26:37. | |
think they see it in terms of what is right and wrong. Obviously, many | :26:38. | :26:42. | |
of the things we have been talking about, how we ensure that the next | :26:43. | :26:45. | |
generation can do better than the last, how we raise the wages of your | :26:46. | :26:48. | |
viewers, who are currently working very hard but not making a wage they | :26:49. | :26:52. | |
can live off, that is what they are talking about and that is what the | :26:53. | :26:57. | |
public will judge them on. But they want to raise taxes, they don't want | :26:58. | :27:01. | |
to cut public spending, they want to re-nationalise the railways, they | :27:02. | :27:03. | |
don't think there is too much immigration, they want to scrap | :27:04. | :27:07. | |
Trident. These are all positions clearly to the left of current party | :27:08. | :27:12. | |
policy. But that is your characterisation. If you look at our | :27:13. | :27:15. | |
policy to increase the top rate of tax to 50% for people earning over | :27:16. | :27:20. | |
?150,000, that is a central position. It is something that | :27:21. | :27:22. | |
enjoys the support of the majority of the public. Trident? If you talk | :27:23. | :27:31. | |
to the British public about immigration, yes, there are concerns | :27:32. | :27:34. | |
about the numbers coming in and out, yes people want to see integration, | :27:35. | :27:38. | |
yes, people want to see people putting a contribution before they | :27:39. | :27:41. | |
take out, the people recognise, if you look at our multicultural | :27:42. | :27:45. | |
nation, we have derived a lot of benefits from immigration. I don't | :27:46. | :27:49. | |
think your characterisation of those positions, that is your view... It's | :27:50. | :27:55. | |
not, it is their view. They are saying... You describe it... You | :27:56. | :28:00. | |
described those positions as left wing positions. I am saying to you | :28:01. | :28:04. | |
that I actually think a lot of those positions are centrist positions | :28:05. | :28:09. | |
that would enjoy the support of the majority of your viewers. I don t | :28:10. | :28:13. | |
think your viewers think the idea of the broadest shoulders bearing the | :28:14. | :28:17. | |
heaviest burden in forms of tax are going to see it as a way out, | :28:18. | :28:21. | |
radical principle. They want to scrap Trident, not party policy It | :28:22. | :28:25. | |
isn't. I think that 73... Well, we will | :28:26. | :28:35. | |
have 400 Parliamentary candidates at the time of the next general | :28:36. | :28:39. | |
election, not including current MPs. This is 73 out of over 400 of them. | :28:40. | :28:44. | |
I think we also need to treat the survey with a bit of caution. They | :28:45. | :28:49. | |
are not representative? You are basically quoting the results of a | :28:50. | :28:53. | |
small percentage of our Parliamentary candidates. It's | :28:54. | :28:57. | |
pretty safe to say when you look at their views, they might be right or | :28:58. | :29:01. | |
wrong, that's not my point, it's fairly safe to say that new Labour | :29:02. | :29:06. | |
is dead? Again, I don't think people see things in terms of gold -- old | :29:07. | :29:14. | |
or new Labour. We are standing at a Labour Party. We are a great | :29:15. | :29:17. | |
country, but we have big challenges. We want to make sure that people can | :29:18. | :29:22. | |
achieve their dreams and aspirations in this country. Too many people are | :29:23. | :29:26. | |
not in that position. Too many people worry about the prospects of | :29:27. | :29:29. | |
their children. Too many people do not earn a wage they can live off. | :29:30. | :29:33. | |
Too many people are worried about the change. We have to make sure we | :29:34. | :29:36. | |
are giving people a stake in the future. That is a Labour thing, you | :29:37. | :29:40. | |
want to call it old or new come I don't care. It's a choice between | :29:41. | :29:43. | |
Labour and the Conservatives in terms of who runs the next | :29:44. | :29:53. | |
government. That one of your candidate we spoke to things that | :29:54. | :29:56. | |
the party's relationship with the unions is to close. 30% of them | :29:57. | :29:59. | |
think it should be closer. You have spoken to 73 out of 400 candidates. | :30:00. | :30:03. | |
Why should the others be any different? It's a fairly | :30:04. | :30:09. | |
representative Sample. Many people working on this set are the member | :30:10. | :30:13. | |
of the union, the National union of journalists. People that came here | :30:14. | :30:15. | |
to this Conference would have been brought here by trade union members. | :30:16. | :30:20. | |
Do you think the relationship should be closer? I think it is where it | :30:21. | :30:25. | |
should be. It should not be closer? I think that trade unions help | :30:26. | :30:29. | |
create wealth in our country. If you look at some other success stories | :30:30. | :30:34. | |
we are in the north-west, GM Vauxhall is there because you have | :30:35. | :30:39. | |
trade unions working in partnership with government and local employees | :30:40. | :30:43. | |
to make sure we kept producing cars. I'm not asking if unions are good or | :30:44. | :30:47. | |
bad, I'm asking if Labour should be closer. You are presupposing, by the | :30:48. | :30:51. | |
tone of your question, that our relationship is a problem. Let's | :30:52. | :30:58. | |
turn to the English question. Why do you need a constitutional | :30:59. | :31:02. | |
conversation where you have to discuss whether English people | :31:03. | :31:05. | |
voting on English matters is unfair? We want to give the regions | :31:06. | :31:09. | |
and cities in England more voice, but let's get it into perspective, | :31:10. | :31:12. | |
we have had a situation where the Scottish people, as desired buying | :31:13. | :31:21. | |
rich people, have to remain part of the UK -- by English people. What is | :31:22. | :31:26. | |
the answer to the question? I don't want to get to a situation where | :31:27. | :31:29. | |
people have voted for solidarity where you have a prime ministers | :31:30. | :31:32. | |
talking about dividing up the UK Parliament. Let me put this point | :31:33. | :31:38. | |
you. Most Scottish voters think it is unfair that Scottish MPs get to | :31:39. | :31:43. | |
vote on English matters. That comes out in Scottish polls. Why don't you | :31:44. | :31:47. | |
see it as unfair? If the Scots see it as unfair, why don't you? This is | :31:48. | :31:52. | |
an age-old conundrum that has been around for 100 years and it's not so | :31:53. | :31:55. | |
simple. You're talking about making a fundamental change to the British | :31:56. | :31:58. | |
constitution on a whim. It's not just an issue, in respect of | :31:59. | :32:05. | |
Scottish MPs. As a London MP, I can vote on matters relating to the | :32:06. | :32:10. | |
transport of England and transport is a devolved matter in London. In | :32:11. | :32:14. | |
Wales, there are a number of competencies that Welsh MPs can vote | :32:15. | :32:17. | |
on and they've been devolved to them. So with all of these different | :32:18. | :32:21. | |
votes, you will exclude different MPs? I think the solution is not | :32:22. | :32:25. | |
necessarily to obsess about what is happening between MPs in | :32:26. | :32:28. | |
Westminster. That turns people politics. We need to devolve more. I | :32:29. | :32:33. | |
think we should be giving the cities and regions of England more autonomy | :32:34. | :32:38. | |
in the way that we are doing in Scotland, but I've got to say, | :32:39. | :32:42. | |
Andrew, it's dishonourable and in bad faith for the Prime Minister to | :32:43. | :32:45. | |
now seek to link what he agreed before the referendum to this issue | :32:46. | :32:50. | |
of English votes for English MPs. That is totally dishonourable and in | :32:51. | :32:54. | |
bad faith. You have promised to devolve more tax powers to Scotland. | :32:55. | :32:58. | |
What would they be? This is being decided at the moment. I cannot give | :32:59. | :33:02. | |
you the exact detail of what the tax powers would be. Could you give us a | :33:03. | :33:07. | |
rough idea? There is a White Paper being produced before November and | :33:08. | :33:10. | |
there will be draft legislation put forward in January. Your leader has | :33:11. | :33:17. | |
vowed that this will happen. And you haven't got a policy? You can't tell | :33:18. | :33:20. | |
us what the tax powers will be? I can't tell you on this programme | :33:21. | :33:25. | |
right now. But we have accepted the principle on further devolution on | :33:26. | :33:28. | |
tax, spending on welfare and we will have further details in due course. | :33:29. | :33:32. | |
Your leader promised to maintain the Barnett Formula for the foreseeable | :33:33. | :33:37. | |
future. Why is that fair when it enshrines more per capita spending | :33:38. | :33:41. | |
for Scotland than it does for Wales, which is poorer, and more than many | :33:42. | :33:45. | |
of the poorer regions in England get? Why is that fair? We have said | :33:46. | :33:51. | |
that in terms of looking at go - local government spending playing | :33:52. | :33:53. | |
out in this Parliament, we have looked at what the government has | :33:54. | :33:57. | |
done which is having already deprived communities having money | :33:58. | :33:59. | |
taken away from them and wealthier communities are getting more. We | :34:00. | :34:04. | |
accept that the Barnett Formula has worked well. How has it works well? | :34:05. | :34:10. | |
There is a cross parliamentary consensus as they don't know what to | :34:11. | :34:15. | |
do about it. Why has it works well, when Wales, clearly loses out? I'm | :34:16. | :34:21. | |
not sure by I accept that when you look at overall underspend -- | :34:22. | :34:24. | |
government spending. It is per capita spending in Scotland, which | :34:25. | :34:31. | |
is way ahead of per capita spending in Wales, but per capita incomes in | :34:32. | :34:35. | |
Scotland are way ahead of Wales Why is that fair Labour politician? We | :34:36. | :34:40. | |
have said we want to have more equitable distribution. You haven't, | :34:41. | :34:44. | |
you have said you will keep the Barnett Formula. I'm not sure | :34:45. | :34:47. | |
necessarily punishing Scotland is the way to go. The way that this | :34:48. | :34:52. | |
debate is going, what message does it send to the Scottish people? I | :34:53. | :34:56. | |
want to be clear, I am delighted with the result we have got. The | :34:57. | :35:00. | |
unity and solidarity where maintaining across the nations of | :35:01. | :35:05. | |
the United Kingdom. All of this separatist talk, setting up | :35:06. | :35:07. | |
different nations of the UK against each other goes completely against | :35:08. | :35:11. | |
what we've all been campaigning for over the last two years, and we | :35:12. | :35:14. | |
shouldn't have any truck with it. Coming onto the announcement on the | :35:15. | :35:18. | |
minimum wage, you would increase it by ?1 50 to take it to ?8, which | :35:19. | :35:24. | |
would be over five years. That is all you are going to do over five | :35:25. | :35:28. | |
years. Have you worked out how much of this increase will be clawed back | :35:29. | :35:36. | |
in taxation and fewer benefits? Work has been done on it. How much? I | :35:37. | :35:42. | |
can't give you an exact figure. The policy pays for itself. The way we | :35:43. | :35:47. | |
have looked at this, we looked at the government figures, and if | :35:48. | :35:50. | |
people are earning more, they would therefore be paying more in income | :35:51. | :35:54. | |
tax and they will be receiving less in benefit and will pay out less in | :35:55. | :35:58. | |
tax credits, so we are confident that this will pay for itself. I'm | :35:59. | :36:02. | |
not asking about the pavement, I'm asking what it means for low paid | :36:03. | :36:07. | |
workers will stop they will get an extra 30p per hour -- about the | :36:08. | :36:11. | |
payment. How much of the 30p to they get to keep? In terms of what they | :36:12. | :36:16. | |
get in the first instance, somebody on the minimum wage now, with our | :36:17. | :36:21. | |
proposal, would get in the region of ?3000 a year more than they are at | :36:22. | :36:24. | |
the moment. That is before tax and benefits. How much do they keep I | :36:25. | :36:33. | |
cannot give you an exact figure Why don't you give me an exact figure if | :36:34. | :36:37. | |
you've done the modelling? We are talking about some of the lowest | :36:38. | :36:40. | |
paid people in the country, and I would suggest to you that going down | :36:41. | :36:43. | |
this route, they would face a marginal rate of tax of 50 or 6 % | :36:44. | :36:50. | |
and they will not keep most of this increase you are talking about. I | :36:51. | :36:54. | |
don't accept your figures. But you haven't got any of your own. I just | :36:55. | :36:59. | |
don't have any in my head I can give you right now. Don't you think out | :37:00. | :37:04. | |
policies before you announce them? Of course we think our policies | :37:05. | :37:07. | |
before we announce them but we are confident people have more in their | :37:08. | :37:10. | |
pocket and will be better off with the changes proposed, and we are | :37:11. | :37:13. | |
also seeking to incentivise employers to pay a living wage as | :37:14. | :37:17. | |
well. At the end of the day, as I said, the economy is recovering | :37:18. | :37:21. | |
great, but we know, at the moment, it's still not delivering for a huge | :37:22. | :37:24. | |
number of your viewers and we're determined to do something about it. | :37:25. | :37:28. | |
The status quo is not an option And even joining me. Twice in three | :37:29. | :37:32. | |
days. You can't have too much of a good thing. I am mad. He said that, | :37:33. | :37:35. | |
not me. It's just gone 11.35, you're | :37:36. | :37:37. | |
watching the Sunday Politics. We say goodbye to viewers in Scotland | :37:38. | :37:40. | |
who leave us now for Coming up here in twenty minutes, | :37:41. | :37:43. | |
we'll be joined by John Prescott to talk about the challenge facing | :37:44. | :37:48. | |
Labour as their conference starts First though, | :37:49. | :37:50. | |
the Sunday Politics where you are. And we're joined today, | :37:51. | :38:00. | |
if not from Scotland itself, then at least by two MPs whose | :38:01. | :38:07. | |
constituencies are about as close to In our part of this sceptred isle, | :38:08. | :38:11. | |
that is. Karen Bradley, | :38:12. | :38:16. | |
Conservative MP for Staffordshire Moorlands, is a Home Office Minister | :38:17. | :38:18. | |
battling against organised crime. Rob Flello is the Labour MP | :38:19. | :38:24. | |
for Stoke South. I'm never quite sure if | :38:25. | :38:26. | |
Stoke is in Staffordshire. It is in Staffordshire. Nevdr before | :38:27. | :38:42. | |
can RMP 's of all main parthes have been so pleased to get the `nswer | :38:43. | :38:44. | |
no. The Scottish referendum restlt | :38:45. | :38:46. | |
was celebrated And it came | :38:47. | :38:48. | |
as a particular relief for one distinguished son of Gl`sgow, | :38:49. | :38:51. | |
now based in the Black Country, who travelled north of the borddr last | :38:52. | :38:54. | |
weekend in support the eventual The UK is a very special cotntry | :38:55. | :38:56. | |
and I would be heartbroken to see I think in the slogan of thd No | :38:57. | :39:04. | |
campaign, we are Better Togdther. Their shared history both through | :39:05. | :39:11. | |
defence, economies, our health service, our pensions, | :39:12. | :39:15. | |
it is too valuable and all that plus our cultural influence throtghout | :39:16. | :39:20. | |
the world, it is too valuable The overall result is one thing all | :39:21. | :39:37. | |
main parties can agree on, but no sewer was that out then Owen | :39:38. | :39:45. | |
Paterson a Tory backbencher, reading fire that party leaders including | :39:46. | :39:50. | |
David Cameron or offering more to Scotland but his giddy joints were | :39:51. | :39:54. | |
having to foot the bill for it. Let's welcome the result, the fact | :39:55. | :39:57. | |
we are still great is fantastic and I am delighted that the Scottish | :39:58. | :40:02. | |
people decided to stay part of the union. We do now need to look at the | :40:03. | :40:07. | |
constitutional arrangements for England because my voters whll want | :40:08. | :40:11. | |
to make sure their voices are heard and they are `` their | :40:12. | :40:17. | |
representatives make the decision for them. Rob, what is your answer | :40:18. | :40:22. | |
to the English question, because we have been hearing about English MPs, | :40:23. | :40:28. | |
something that commands poptlar support and your party leaddr looks | :40:29. | :40:32. | |
in danger of being put on the wrong side of the argument. I also welcome | :40:33. | :40:38. | |
the right decision from Scotland. We would be sitting here in ch`os if it | :40:39. | :40:44. | |
had gone the other way, so H plead Scotland voted to stay in, but in | :40:45. | :40:48. | |
terms of your point about the West Lothian question, what is ilportant | :40:49. | :40:54. | |
for my cursor joints is not so much West Lothian as messed `` Wdst mids | :40:55. | :41:00. | |
that the West Midlands, this took in trench question, because we need a | :41:01. | :41:07. | |
proper debate about what thd convention, the Constitution should | :41:08. | :41:08. | |
look like and we need that debate. So one simple answer from Scotland | :41:09. | :41:13. | |
poses any number of questions How exactly do you | :41:14. | :41:16. | |
"re`empower the great cities", Give more collective or indhvidual | :41:17. | :41:18. | |
clout to local councils, perhaps? The Labour leader of one | :41:19. | :41:23. | |
of our biggest authorities `lso now chairs the powerful organis`tion | :41:24. | :41:26. | |
representing over 400 counchls What, I wondered, was his mdssage | :41:27. | :41:29. | |
to the main party leaders? The message is a consistent one | :41:30. | :41:36. | |
that England needs a fairer deal The formula on which the resources | :41:37. | :41:39. | |
are allocated between different nations in the UK is out of date | :41:40. | :41:45. | |
and needs revising or replacing In what way exactly is | :41:46. | :41:51. | |
the present arrangement unf`ir? It is unfair because at | :41:52. | :41:54. | |
the moment it doesn't address need. We have a situation where | :41:55. | :42:01. | |
for example the amount of money that goes to peopld in | :42:02. | :42:04. | |
Dundee is bigger then what goes to Dudley, and a lot of that is raised | :42:05. | :42:09. | |
by people who pay taxes in Dudley, Are you saying there should be tax | :42:10. | :42:13. | |
variant powers in the West Lidlands? The fundamental point is | :42:14. | :42:23. | |
that local authorities need They need greater freedom over their | :42:24. | :42:32. | |
own ability to raise their own council tax and also business taxes, | :42:33. | :42:40. | |
and they also need to be given greater freedom to raise money | :42:41. | :42:45. | |
independently via arrangements with the city | :42:46. | :42:47. | |
and other financial institutions because only by that will wd be able | :42:48. | :42:49. | |
to compete internationally. You're saying the West Midl`nds | :42:50. | :42:51. | |
should be more independent Absolutely, because what we have | :42:52. | :42:54. | |
at the present is that Engl`nd is We have a colonial relationship with | :42:55. | :43:01. | |
Westminster, which is unaccdptable. All I am asking for is that we go | :43:02. | :43:09. | |
back to where we used to be when Joseph Chamberlain ran Birmhngham, | :43:10. | :43:13. | |
where we could just get on with it. The Local Government Associ`tion | :43:14. | :43:17. | |
is a powerful body. How much leverage does this give you | :43:18. | :43:20. | |
with political parties going We have a massive amount | :43:21. | :43:24. | |
of leverage because with a general election you have to win | :43:25. | :43:29. | |
England, and recently the rdferendum Someone needs to speak up | :43:30. | :43:32. | |
for England and if we don't have a recipe that | :43:33. | :43:39. | |
satisfies people in England, people I have a fear that Scotland | :43:40. | :43:43. | |
will get sorted, then they will sort out Wales and then thex | :43:44. | :43:49. | |
will forget about England. We also need a new opportunhty | :43:50. | :43:52. | |
for raising new ways of income. Councillor David Sparkes. Rob, you | :43:53. | :44:09. | |
are a former member of Birmhngham City Council. You view with sympathy | :44:10. | :44:14. | |
his point that if you give local authorities more control of the | :44:15. | :44:17. | |
purse strings, you get more interest in local elections? My concdrn is | :44:18. | :44:23. | |
that what we have seen is a devolution of powers and | :44:24. | :44:29. | |
responsibilities to look `` to local authorities but in Stoke`on`Trent we | :44:30. | :44:32. | |
have seen huge cuts to the loney those local authorities havd. My | :44:33. | :44:37. | |
concern is that it is all vdry well giving power to raise finances but | :44:38. | :44:41. | |
if your local area cannot ststain high taxation, all you are doing is | :44:42. | :44:48. | |
locking in the differential between a wealthy city and a poor stburb. | :44:49. | :44:53. | |
What is your answer to that? We hear about the wealthy areas and less | :44:54. | :44:58. | |
wealthy haters like Wolverh`mpton and Walsall. Under successive | :44:59. | :45:05. | |
governments. They think we have been looking at is putting more business | :45:06. | :45:08. | |
rates into the hands of loc`l authorities, so instead of | :45:09. | :45:13. | |
collecting witness rates, and then them coming back to local | :45:14. | :45:17. | |
authorities, being able to keep those business rates and those sort | :45:18. | :45:21. | |
of incentives and tax`raising powers help regenerate local areas. But | :45:22. | :45:28. | |
that doesn't work. If you h`ve somewhere like Westminster where | :45:29. | :45:30. | |
they can raise huge amounts of witness rates, somewhere whdre you | :45:31. | :45:36. | |
cannot you don't lock it in, so it is all very well giving up power but | :45:37. | :45:42. | |
they need to raise the monex. What about the point about being free to | :45:43. | :45:45. | |
go into the city to bring more boring? It is the same problem | :45:46. | :45:50. | |
because if you cannot raise more money because you were in a poor | :45:51. | :45:56. | |
area, you have the same problem In Staffordshire moorlands, we are | :45:57. | :46:01. | |
quite distant from Birmingh`m, closer to Nottingham so if xou | :46:02. | :46:05. | |
regionalise things and focus it on Birmingham, you deprived ardas like | :46:06. | :46:08. | |
ours. We need the right settlement for each area. And on that same | :46:09. | :46:14. | |
point, David Cameron said wd must re`empower bird great cities like | :46:15. | :46:19. | |
Birmingham and then there w`s a chorus of disappointment from the | :46:20. | :46:23. | |
counties, or what about us? So this is how you get a simple answer from | :46:24. | :46:28. | |
Scotland and then the difficulty comes word you try to find | :46:29. | :46:32. | |
solutions. We need to see English votes on English matters and the | :46:33. | :46:37. | |
audit formula become less ilportant as Scotland gets more tax`r`ising | :46:38. | :46:42. | |
powers. The Barnett formula looks like a subsidy for Scotland, it | :46:43. | :46:47. | |
looks like a political fix. We have to honour commitments made to the | :46:48. | :46:50. | |
people of Scotland because `nything less would be appalling, but we need | :46:51. | :46:57. | |
a mature, considerate consideration of what our competition shotld look | :46:58. | :47:03. | |
like for the future of the TK. Can we do this at the place Davhd | :47:04. | :47:07. | |
Cameron is suggesting in a latter of months? I think English votds on | :47:08. | :47:13. | |
English matters is a simple idea and the suggestion you can stop MPs in | :47:14. | :47:20. | |
Westminster voting. It is not a simple matter. That may well be a | :47:21. | :47:25. | |
solution but you have to look at this all around and say Scotland has | :47:26. | :47:30. | |
made the right decision to stay in the UK but we now need to look at | :47:31. | :47:34. | |
what is right for England, for the regions and districts, we nded | :47:35. | :47:40. | |
proper consideration. David Sparkes said he would like authorithes like | :47:41. | :47:46. | |
Birmingham to be able to run their affairs like Joe Chamberlain did, | :47:47. | :47:50. | |
with rate`capping for example. Rate`capping had not been invented | :47:51. | :47:57. | |
when he had so much freedom. In terms of what happened back in his | :47:58. | :48:03. | |
day, the world is different. We now need to have a settlement for the | :48:04. | :48:07. | |
whole UK that takes into account the views of everyone. Is England the | :48:08. | :48:11. | |
last bastions of the British Empire? I don't think it is a | :48:12. | :48:18. | |
colony. Councils are free to set the council tax they want but they have | :48:19. | :48:22. | |
to ask local people if they are happy with that rate, and I think | :48:23. | :48:27. | |
that is right, that gives the voice back to the people so they have | :48:28. | :48:34. | |
their say. It is tying their hands. Successive governments have | :48:35. | :48:37. | |
concentrated more power at Westminster. I am not sure H agree | :48:38. | :48:47. | |
but there has been devolution to local authorities but no fun thing | :48:48. | :48:51. | |
that mattered at, funding w`s taken away so they are asked to do more | :48:52. | :48:55. | |
with less. You will be in government soon? And hopefully do something | :48:56. | :49:01. | |
about it. I will be trying to make sure he is not, but we do h`ve the | :49:02. | :49:07. | |
ability for local people to make those decisions, so the mord power | :49:08. | :49:09. | |
we put in their hands the bdtter. Because we're off to Uxcestdr ` | :49:10. | :49:12. | |
population 150,000 It's the vision for a new | :49:13. | :49:15. | |
generation of "garden cities". On the real`life list of pl`ces | :49:16. | :49:23. | |
deemed suitable for the tre`tment are Gloucester, Cheltenham, | :49:24. | :49:25. | |
Worcester, Stratford, Rugby, Shrewsbury and Stafford, as our BBC | :49:26. | :49:29. | |
Coventry and Warwickshire Political It was the first of its kind | :49:30. | :49:32. | |
in the world. Letchworth Garden City, founded in | :49:33. | :49:40. | |
1903 by this man, Ebenezer Howard. His unique idea was to blend | :49:41. | :49:44. | |
the best of town and countrx life It's an idea that's making ` return | :49:45. | :49:49. | |
with seven locations across the Midlands being singled out `s | :49:50. | :49:52. | |
potential garden cities. We have central common, gredn spaces | :49:53. | :49:59. | |
throughout the town, and wh`t's called the greenway, which dnvelops | :50:00. | :50:03. | |
the town and is publicly accessible, leading onto the countrysidd, so it | :50:04. | :50:08. | |
is really important because I think we all enjoy open spaces but planned | :50:09. | :50:11. | |
open spaces could be hugely So, green boulevards, quiet streets. | :50:12. | :50:16. | |
What's not to like? Who wouldn't want to live | :50:17. | :50:22. | |
in a garden city? Billed as the environmentally | :50:23. | :50:26. | |
friendly solution to building more houses, there was fierce opposition | :50:27. | :50:32. | |
in Warwickshire when one was So could garden cities be | :50:33. | :50:35. | |
the answer here? We have taken way more | :50:36. | :50:40. | |
houses than we need to. No, because we already have | :50:41. | :50:46. | |
a big development Stratford`on`Avon has just signed | :50:47. | :50:49. | |
off on its local plan to build 10,800 new homes | :50:50. | :50:55. | |
in the district by 2031. Its leader told me there's no | :50:56. | :50:58. | |
appetite for a garden city here Part of our policy is to put | :50:59. | :51:03. | |
something much smaller than a garden city near to the JLR | :51:04. | :51:08. | |
factory, and that has met whth huge public reaction against it, despite | :51:09. | :51:13. | |
the fact that the promoters of the scheme say they would build that | :51:14. | :51:19. | |
on garden city principles. But this was the message to Straford | :51:20. | :51:25. | |
from Letchworth Garden City. If you do anything half bakdd | :51:26. | :51:31. | |
and try to compromise, It is important people have a big | :51:32. | :51:36. | |
vision, big plans and try to create great places because new development | :51:37. | :51:42. | |
doesn't have to be bland, it can be exciting as long as we capttre that | :51:43. | :51:45. | |
imagination and have that vhsion so many council leaders have, | :51:46. | :51:49. | |
that would be my recommendation So, will this old idea be rdborn or | :51:50. | :51:55. | |
will it be dismissed as a ghmmick? As another threat to | :51:56. | :51:59. | |
the green belt from developdrs? Either way, the question relains ` | :52:00. | :52:03. | |
what's the best way to solvd And we are also joined here today | :52:04. | :52:05. | |
by the 21st century's answer to He's the winner of the ?250,000 | :52:06. | :52:14. | |
Wolfson Economics Prize, which I'm told is ranked second only | :52:15. | :52:22. | |
to the Nobel Prize, and the man who's suggested a new gener`tion | :52:23. | :52:27. | |
of garden cities could be p`rt of Congratulations. Thank you. Is this | :52:28. | :52:43. | |
intended as a serious contrhbution to the debate about the housing | :52:44. | :52:49. | |
crisis or just an eye`catchhng sound bite? There is agreement we need | :52:50. | :52:55. | |
more houses in this country, we are under providing and it may not look | :52:56. | :53:00. | |
that way in Stratford on Avon but nationally we need to do th`t. A lot | :53:01. | :53:06. | |
of that could go into cities like Birmingham and Wolverhampton but not | :53:07. | :53:12. | |
all. You talk about the gredn belt and as far as I can see for | :53:13. | :53:16. | |
politicians, it is a rail lhne and you mention it in this contdxt at | :53:17. | :53:23. | |
your peril. I am not a politician, if you are you need to have caution. | :53:24. | :53:30. | |
That is why the debate needs to happen on a national level. One | :53:31. | :53:35. | |
reason for the competition hs to generate that debated and gdt people | :53:36. | :53:38. | |
thinking about where it is best to put houses. At the moment they go in | :53:39. | :53:43. | |
the least attractive field `round every village, we are saying do not | :53:44. | :53:48. | |
do that, put them in a propdr development like an Edgbaston rather | :53:49. | :53:53. | |
than pushing them around and annoying every village, we `re | :53:54. | :53:59. | |
saying put them in a single place. Our politicians sympathetic? If seen | :54:00. | :54:04. | |
reports that you and George Osborne talk to each other. What is the real | :54:05. | :54:10. | |
politics of this? I don't t`lk to George Osborne directly, but | :54:11. | :54:15. | |
politicians are looking for an answer. They see potential hn the | :54:16. | :54:21. | |
garden city because polling shows garden cities are popular as ideas, | :54:22. | :54:25. | |
somewhere else is what people are saying. And they are not a pillar in | :54:26. | :54:32. | |
South Warwickshire, we saw the idea of a possible development and people | :54:33. | :54:38. | |
are up in arms. 75% of people polled said they were a good thing, if | :54:39. | :54:43. | |
given a choice where to put the housing, faceless suburbs or | :54:44. | :54:46. | |
anywhere else, it is how to engage that enable political process which | :54:47. | :54:52. | |
is difficult. Karen, what is your view of this? How about a g`rden | :54:53. | :54:59. | |
city in the Mormons? We need a garden city where people ard happy | :55:00. | :55:04. | |
with it. I have seen in the peatlands that local parishds have | :55:05. | :55:07. | |
been able to contribute us do what housing needs they have two keep | :55:08. | :55:12. | |
villages alive. Would you wdlcome it? People talk about that hn | :55:13. | :55:16. | |
principle but not when it comes to their backyard. The Mormons is an | :55:17. | :55:21. | |
unusual case because we are partly the current national park, but I | :55:22. | :55:29. | |
think the right housing in the right areas could be welcome, and planning | :55:30. | :55:35. | |
amenities makes a differencd. I know does all the places on David's list | :55:36. | :55:40. | |
happened to be conservative areas. Shouldn't you pitch for Stoke to be | :55:41. | :55:44. | |
added to this? Sort of, is ly answer. The reality with | :55:45. | :55:50. | |
Stoke`on`Trent is that therd is role into green fields around thd city | :55:51. | :55:56. | |
which is completely wrong. There are huge amounts of Brownfield land in | :55:57. | :56:00. | |
Stoke`on`Trent that need to be built on. When that is exhausted, we then | :56:01. | :56:06. | |
need a proper plan approach, but not yet, we have to exhaust what we | :56:07. | :56:11. | |
have. Absolutely right for Stoke`on`Trent, and not all the | :56:12. | :56:16. | |
places, Oxford is Labour`controlled, but there are certain places like | :56:17. | :56:20. | |
Oxford and Wester where there isn't scope to expand. They are popular | :56:21. | :56:27. | |
places, why build it unpopular places when it is less dangdrous | :56:28. | :56:30. | |
than we should be building hn popular places, and if you plan | :56:31. | :56:35. | |
properly and design beautiftl housing you could maybe get over | :56:36. | :56:40. | |
some objection. Let me raisd some criticisms, that it would m`ke an | :56:41. | :56:44. | |
appreciable difference to affordable housing, just give city slickers | :56:45. | :56:52. | |
another option, and also th`t you tack on small developments rather | :56:53. | :56:57. | |
than this one size fits all idea? In Germany, look at how they do | :56:58. | :57:01. | |
extensions, there are crimes, open space, proper provision, but with | :57:02. | :57:08. | |
little X `` estates you cannot do that, so you work with scald, the | :57:09. | :57:13. | |
value of the land which Ebenezer Howard intended to be spent on the | :57:14. | :57:20. | |
quality, but now it goes to the farmer. If you can spend th`t on the | :57:21. | :57:25. | |
place you get up audible hotsing and get the money to do that, provide | :57:26. | :57:29. | |
facilities and create attractive places. Fascinating. We will see | :57:30. | :57:35. | |
what happens. Thank you all very much. | :57:36. | :57:38. | |
Now our regular round`up of the political week | :57:39. | :57:40. | |
It's brought to us today by Charmaine Burton, | :57:41. | :57:43. | |
presenter of the Different @ngles show on Birmingham's New Stxle | :57:44. | :57:46. | |
The West Midlands MEP Nikki Sinclaire appeared before Bhrmingham | :57:47. | :57:52. | |
magistrates on charges of money laundering | :57:53. | :57:55. | |
Herefordshire Council is adding its name to a court petition calling | :57:56. | :58:02. | |
The council is owed ?65,000 by the non`league club. | :58:03. | :58:09. | |
Another 6000 jobs are to go at Birmingham City Council on top | :58:10. | :58:13. | |
The council says it's the equivalent to the closure | :58:14. | :58:18. | |
It's a stark figure and I've not taken any pleasure | :58:19. | :58:25. | |
Protestors marched to demonstrate against proposals to | :58:26. | :58:30. | |
Some services are due to move to the University Hospital of | :58:31. | :58:36. | |
Thousands of jobs are at risk after Newcastle`under`Lyme`based | :58:37. | :58:42. | |
The company was founded by Staffordshire entreprenetr | :58:43. | :58:48. | |
But generally there's an improving picture on jobs. | :58:49. | :58:57. | |
The latest figures show unelployment in the West Midlands has dipped | :58:58. | :58:59. | |
below 200,000 for the first time since the economic crash. | :59:00. | :59:08. | |
So that is welcome but isn't part of that picture that more of them are | :59:09. | :59:17. | |
low paid, temporary contracts, so large jobs are being done down? I | :59:18. | :59:22. | |
dispute that, we have good figures in the Mormons. But the moorlands | :59:23. | :59:31. | |
isn't the complete picture. The jobs being created by the right jobs for | :59:32. | :59:36. | |
those people and that he put IME taking new jobs are excited and | :59:37. | :59:39. | |
interested in them, and my lessage to people worried about this | :59:40. | :59:46. | |
company, I am pleased there is some talk of rescue from Vodafond but I | :59:47. | :59:50. | |
want to see support for the people affected. I disagree, I think there | :59:51. | :59:58. | |
are too many people on minilum wage zero hours contract jobs whdre they | :59:59. | :00:03. | |
have to pay to get to works if their contract requires them to go from | :00:04. | :00:07. | |
location to location, they have to fund it themselves, provide their | :00:08. | :00:11. | |
own uniform and there is a fundamental problem with jobs that | :00:12. | :00:16. | |
are being treated. I welcomd every job that this is too late, they | :00:17. | :00:20. | |
should have happened three xears ago and they are not quality jobs, which | :00:21. | :00:22. | |
we need to see. My thanks to Karen Bradley `nd | :00:23. | :00:26. | |
Rob Flello. I'll be heading up to Manchdster | :00:27. | :00:28. | |
for the Labour Party conferdnce where I'll be interviewing | :00:29. | :00:31. | |
the party leader Ed Miliband. That will be on Midlands Today | :00:32. | :00:33. | |
on Wednesday evening at 6:30pm And on next Sunday's progralme I'll | :00:34. | :00:36. | |
be talking to the Prime Minister David Cameron | :00:37. | :00:39. | |
at the start of the Conserv`tive And UKIP gather in Doncaster, | :00:40. | :00:41. | |
so we'll also be hearing But this is where we, in our part | :00:42. | :00:48. | |
of our still`United Kingdom, the Conservative mayor's policy No | :00:49. | :00:58. | |
more time I'm afraid. Andrew, back to you. | :00:59. | :01:06. | |
Welcome back the to Labour conference, where we're joined | :01:07. | :01:08. | |
by the latest hot new stand-up comedian on the Manchester circuit. | :01:09. | :01:12. | |
I speak of course of former Deputy Prime Minister John Prescott. | :01:13. | :01:17. | |
In between giving tub-thumping speeches to rally | :01:18. | :01:19. | |
the party faithful this week, he's appearing at the Comedy Store. | :01:20. | :01:22. | |
He was also of course the man behind the last attempt to solve | :01:23. | :01:25. | |
Our political panel is with me as well. John, we have got Scottish | :01:26. | :01:37. | |
votes for Scottish laws, and more Scottish votes for Scottish laws, | :01:38. | :01:40. | |
why not English votes for English laws? That's an English parliament | :01:41. | :01:45. | |
in a major constitutional change and that is what has started. I | :01:46. | :01:49. | |
certainly don't agree with that I campaign for powers to be given to | :01:50. | :01:53. | |
the regions. When I first tested it in the Northeast, I lost. Why? | :01:54. | :01:56. | |
Because they said they were not the same powers you are giving to | :01:57. | :02:01. | |
Scotland. So, basically, we must do that, decentralised, not just with a | :02:02. | :02:09. | |
Westminster Parliament. As you know, in 32 years I produce the | :02:10. | :02:12. | |
alternative. You've kept that for 32 years? I took it off my shelf and | :02:13. | :02:17. | |
everybody was talking about it now, but they weren't in 1982. This was | :02:18. | :02:23. | |
my five plan. 200 meetings all around the country -- five-year | :02:24. | :02:29. | |
plan. You wrote this morning, not 35 years ago, that this was a plot to | :02:30. | :02:33. | |
turn Westminster into a Tory dominated English parliament. But if | :02:34. | :02:37. | |
that is how England had voted, it's not a plot, it's democracy. You can | :02:38. | :02:42. | |
get reform in a more federal structure, and even English | :02:43. | :02:46. | |
parliament does fit into the federal structure and that is what the | :02:47. | :02:49. | |
Liberals say, but you need a fairer representation. It might be quite | :02:50. | :02:54. | |
radical, and we could get rid of the Lord's, and have representation in | :02:55. | :02:58. | |
the region there. It can't be done in two weeks. Alex Salmond, he's | :02:59. | :03:05. | |
assuming he has been sold out, and it was less than a week ago they | :03:06. | :03:08. | |
remain the announcement. We have to get it carried out will stop but | :03:09. | :03:13. | |
don't connect it to the English parliament that fixes it in their | :03:14. | :03:18. | |
favour. It may be pretty low politics from David Cameron to come | :03:19. | :03:21. | |
up with something that was not in the vowel -- a bow on the front page | :03:22. | :03:28. | |
of the daily record, but if they do not agree with what he said at the | :03:29. | :03:30. | |
time of the general election, he will say two in which voters, if you | :03:31. | :03:34. | |
want real protection in England vote Conservative, and if you want | :03:35. | :03:38. | |
Scottish MPs deciding on your level of taxation, vote Labour. He is | :03:39. | :03:42. | |
scared to death of UKIP may have been saying it for a while. In the | :03:43. | :03:46. | |
constitutional changes have to see what is fair and equitable, the same | :03:47. | :03:50. | |
with the Barnett fallen -- formula. But what you have to do is get a | :03:51. | :03:54. | |
fair system. It takes time to discuss it. I was doing a 32 years | :03:55. | :03:58. | |
ago and nobody wanted to know. We had better start a debate, and don't | :03:59. | :04:02. | |
mixed up the constitutional type of English parliament with what we are | :04:03. | :04:08. | |
promising in Scotland. It is about trust and politics. So the turnout | :04:09. | :04:13. | |
of the north-east regional assembly and they voted against it. The | :04:14. | :04:18. | |
turnout that the police and crime commissioners was low. How'd you get | :04:19. | :04:21. | |
people interested in the process and it doesn't feel like a conversation | :04:22. | :04:25. | |
in smoky rooms and you go back to British people and tell them what | :04:26. | :04:28. | |
you decided? If you look at the turnout in Scotland whether they | :04:29. | :04:33. | |
were interested in, now it is phenomenally interesting. It is | :04:34. | :04:36. | |
about real power, having real influence. What they said to me in | :04:37. | :04:39. | |
the north-east, they said we know you have an idea for devolution and | :04:40. | :04:43. | |
you will give us assemblies but it doesn't have the power of Scotland, | :04:44. | :04:47. | |
but now we are talking about equity, similar distribution of | :04:48. | :04:50. | |
power and similar resources. The English people are entitled to that. | :04:51. | :04:54. | |
They have been robbed of it for too long. Labour has long struggled with | :04:55. | :04:59. | |
what it should do over devolving power to the regions and you came up | :05:00. | :05:03. | |
with regional assemblies. Ed Miliband has a different idea of | :05:04. | :05:07. | |
city regions. Aren't they the same idea of yours but without a | :05:08. | :05:11. | |
democratic accountability? Can we really trust the greater region of | :05:12. | :05:14. | |
Manchester or Birmingham to deliver if there is not the same kind of | :05:15. | :05:19. | |
democratic link with the people I live in whole, and it stops on the | :05:20. | :05:24. | |
boundary of the Pennines -- the city of Hull. We have city regions from | :05:25. | :05:29. | |
Labour because I failed in the north-east to get the assemblies in, | :05:30. | :05:33. | |
and now we have to look at those options. Do you work through city | :05:34. | :05:37. | |
regions? Mainly in the north, I might say. Even the federal | :05:38. | :05:40. | |
structure they talk about my be in the North or Midlands with | :05:41. | :05:43. | |
Birmingham, but there are a number of options and that is where I | :05:44. | :05:48. | |
believe that what the White Paper should do is to put those options | :05:49. | :05:52. | |
in. Instead of having to put them together, state what you want to do | :05:53. | :05:56. | |
in the English regions. Leave it to the legislation, which is what will | :05:57. | :05:59. | |
happen with the Scottish, and once you've agreed it, you do it after. | :06:00. | :06:03. | |
You have to start the radical debate about giving the English regions, | :06:04. | :06:07. | |
not centralised in London, but decentralised. Do you need to have a | :06:08. | :06:12. | |
separate English parliament? Wouldn't it just satisfy the English | :06:13. | :06:17. | |
if you simply said to MPs, when it's in English matter in the House of | :06:18. | :06:21. | |
Commons, stop interfering? I would disagree with that. I would say put | :06:22. | :06:25. | |
the option in the White Paper. The White Paper seems to be talking | :06:26. | :06:30. | |
about Scotland. If you don't put the commitments to what you want to do | :06:31. | :06:33. | |
with the English regions, people might say I'm not supporting that. | :06:34. | :06:38. | |
Put the framework in the White Paper, but a different timetable. | :06:39. | :06:41. | |
Devolution in this country has been to a different timetable, whether | :06:42. | :06:46. | |
it's Wales, Northern Ireland. Start looking fundamentally at it and the | :06:47. | :06:49. | |
Labour Party should be leading the debate. Let's come the no campaign | :06:50. | :06:56. | |
lost Glasgow. The cradle of British socialism. -- let's come to | :06:57. | :07:00. | |
something that happened with the referendum as the no campaign lost | :07:01. | :07:04. | |
Glasgow. Is it a sign that the Labour Party are finding it hard to | :07:05. | :07:09. | |
what -- hold on to their traditional working class vote question mark its | :07:10. | :07:12. | |
different in Manchester. They would say it is a message about | :07:13. | :07:17. | |
decentralisation. If we change the message a bit maybe. We have been | :07:18. | :07:26. | |
thinking that now it is that either the Labour Party to recognise it is | :07:27. | :07:29. | |
not the old message and old areas that will win it. I remember | :07:30. | :07:33. | |
covering the 1997 referendum in Scotland and you gave a tub thumping | :07:34. | :07:38. | |
speech in a big hall in Hamilton and you really connected. Obviously it | :07:39. | :07:41. | |
was a different referendum because that was about a parliament, not | :07:42. | :07:45. | |
independence and Alex Salmond was on your side, but you, and Ingush MP, | :07:46. | :07:49. | |
an English minister, connected to the core Labour voters in a way that | :07:50. | :07:53. | |
Ed Miliband is failing to do -- an English MP. You make a fair point. | :07:54. | :08:02. | |
In the big rally, I had to point out I was Welsh. Enough of this. Get on | :08:03. | :08:09. | |
with it. What I was saying there was that I supported you, as I did for | :08:10. | :08:14. | |
30 odd years when Labour MPs were against any thinker Scotland. I | :08:15. | :08:17. | |
support you, but I expect you to come in with your Scottish MPs and | :08:18. | :08:21. | |
make sure the English get their share of the powers and resources | :08:22. | :08:25. | |
and that is what that speech was about, and by God, it's as relevant | :08:26. | :08:31. | |
today as it was then. I haven't got any Scottish MPs, I live in | :08:32. | :08:35. | |
Knightsbridge. Did you get the vote? No. What would you have done? I | :08:36. | :08:43. | |
can't tell you. You would have voted yes, come on. I'm interested. What | :08:44. | :08:50. | |
do you want to hear from the speech by Ed Miliband? People are wondering | :08:51. | :08:57. | |
about where Labour stands. There are many issues we have flown around, | :08:58. | :09:00. | |
and we've done the discussion just now. What he has got to do where he | :09:01. | :09:07. | |
started off on the minimum wage You are trying to deal with those left | :09:08. | :09:12. | |
behind. Those are the bottom. That is the Labour message. The National | :09:13. | :09:15. | |
Health Service is our creation and we have to say it will be saved If | :09:16. | :09:18. | |
you can save all of these bankers with all the money and say you | :09:19. | :09:22. | |
haven't got the money for the NHS, say where we stand. That will be the | :09:23. | :09:28. | |
priority. The third one, housing. I have had a revolutionary idea that | :09:29. | :09:31. | |
you can buy a house without a deposit and without the interest or | :09:32. | :09:34. | |
paying the stamp duty, and you buy it by rent. The government gives | :09:35. | :09:40. | |
?150 billion guaranteed housing for up to 600,000. Get down to ordinary | :09:41. | :09:45. | |
people who can use their rent to buy the house. It's happening in the | :09:46. | :09:48. | |
north-east. Why are they not listening to you? You have said more | :09:49. | :09:51. | |
to connect with ordinary people in three minutes than we will probably | :09:52. | :09:56. | |
hear in an hour. I've been telling them, made, and we have a commission | :09:57. | :10:00. | |
coming out. People don't want commissions, they want action. I | :10:01. | :10:06. | |
say, I know what we do, housing health, the people. That is our | :10:07. | :10:10. | |
language. That is why we are Labour. That a lot of people run away. I | :10:11. | :10:14. | |
think in Glasgow, they wondered about that. If you turn up on the | :10:15. | :10:18. | |
same three platforms, and I know it's a critical thing to say, they | :10:19. | :10:22. | |
think in Scotland it is a coalition. I don't like coalitions. It looks | :10:23. | :10:27. | |
like a coalition, didn't it? Maybe it was saved because Rupert Murdoch | :10:28. | :10:32. | |
started the The Times about the polls and he couldn't even get the | :10:33. | :10:38. | |
sun to say that they wanted. We haven't got time. I wondered how | :10:39. | :10:41. | |
long it would take is to get to repot Murdoch. You beat the record. | :10:42. | :10:48. | |
-- to Rupert Murdoch. Labour is quite behind on the economy, and | :10:49. | :10:51. | |
people are looking at Labour, trying to work out if they can trust you to | :10:52. | :10:54. | |
the stewards of the economy given 2010. Under Labour 's plans there is | :10:55. | :11:01. | |
20 billion of cuts to make in the next Parliament. Will we hear | :11:02. | :11:06. | |
anything about that? It is about the proportion of debt to GDP. I know it | :11:07. | :11:11. | |
sounds historic, but our debt when we came in in 1997 was a proportion | :11:12. | :11:16. | |
of GDP, and you must know this, and that was less than Thatcher's. Why | :11:17. | :11:23. | |
did we get done on debt? You guys run around saying a lot about it, | :11:24. | :11:26. | |
but the fact is it was worse under Thatcher. Thatcher is now seen as a | :11:27. | :11:33. | |
hero. If you look at the debt, it is still a problem. Gordon Brown did an | :11:34. | :11:37. | |
awful lot to solve those problems, but they were still left with us. | :11:38. | :11:41. | |
What we have to have is a sensible discussion like we had on devolution | :11:42. | :11:44. | |
and now we are talking about finances. Let's look at the public | :11:45. | :11:49. | |
sector debt and the price we pay. We need to be putting the record | :11:50. | :11:52. | |
straight. The problem is they tell me, John, we have to look to the | :11:53. | :11:56. | |
future not the past. We are getting screwed on the past and we have to | :11:57. | :11:59. | |
change it and perhaps Gordon Brown coming in could do something. | :12:00. | :12:06. | |
Finishing on the future, when we did a poll of the Labour candidates you | :12:07. | :12:10. | |
were watching on the big screen when it came up that their favourite | :12:11. | :12:14. | |
to succeed Ed Miliband was Yvette Cooper, why did you shout no! That | :12:15. | :12:25. | |
is alive. -- alive. -- that is not true. I know resistance is not | :12:26. | :12:27. | |
strong. What did that mean? You can't get away with anything at | :12:28. | :12:44. | |
a Conference, John. I was dropping comments them to pick up everywhere, | :12:45. | :12:49. | |
I do not wear -- nowhere they got that one from. Good to have you | :12:50. | :12:54. | |
back. Round of applause for former Deputy Prime Minister. That's it for | :12:55. | :12:59. | |
today. Don't applaud them, they are useless. | :13:00. | :13:01. | |
my guests. I'll be back here at Labour conference for the Daily | :13:02. | :13:06. | |
11:30am tomorrow when we'll bring you live coverage of the speech by | :13:07. | :13:10. | |
We're here all week, and next Sunday you can find us in Birmingham for | :13:11. | :13:15. | |
Remember if it's Sunday, it's the Sunday Politics. | :13:16. | :13:23. |