Browse content similar to 22/01/2017. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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It's Sunday morning, and this is the Sunday Politics. | :00:37. | :00:39. | |
Theresa May will be the first foreign leader to visit US | :00:40. | :00:42. | |
President Donald Trump this week - she's promised to hold "very | :00:43. | :00:45. | |
frank" conversations with the new and controversial | :00:46. | :00:48. | |
Speaking of the 45th President of America, | :00:49. | :00:55. | |
we'll be looking at what the Trump presidency could hold | :00:56. | :00:58. | |
in store for Britain and the rest of the world. | :00:59. | :01:04. | |
And with the Supreme Court expected to say that Parliament should | :01:05. | :01:07. | |
have a vote before the Brexit process begins, we'll ask | :01:08. | :01:10. | |
Shadow Home Secretary Diane Abbott what Labour will do next. | :01:11. | :01:16. | |
And in the Midlands, coming soon, that Brexit by-election. | :01:17. | :01:18. | |
Stoke voted overwhelmingly to leave the EU. | :01:19. | :01:21. | |
Now Ukip's new leader's plotting a spectacular sequel. | :01:22. | :01:23. | |
And to talk about all of that and more, I'm joined by three | :01:24. | :01:37. | |
journalists who, in an era of so-called fake news, can be | :01:38. | :01:40. | |
relied upon for their accuracy, their impartiality - | :01:41. | :01:43. | |
and their willingness to come to the studio | :01:44. | :01:47. | |
It's Steve Richards, Julia Hartley-Brewer | :01:48. | :01:53. | |
and Tom Newton Dunn, and during the programme they'll be | :01:54. | :01:59. | |
tweeting as often as the 45th President of the USA in the middle | :02:00. | :02:03. | |
So - the Prime Minister has been appearing on the BBC this morning. | :02:04. | :02:13. | |
She was mostly talking about Donald Trump and Brexit, | :02:14. | :02:16. | |
but she was also asked about a story on the front of this | :02:17. | :02:19. | |
It's reported that an unarmed Trident missile test fired | :02:20. | :02:23. | |
from the submarine HMS Vengeance near the Florida coast in June | :02:24. | :02:29. | |
The paper says the incident took place weeks before a crucial Commons | :02:30. | :02:37. | |
Well, let's have listen to Theresa May talking | :02:38. | :02:41. | |
The issue that we were talking about in the House of Commons | :02:42. | :02:47. | |
It was about whether or not we should renew Trident, | :02:48. | :02:50. | |
whether we should look to the future and have a replacement Trident. | :02:51. | :02:54. | |
That's what we were talking about in the House of Commons. | :02:55. | :02:56. | |
That's what the House of Commons voted for. | :02:57. | :02:59. | |
He doesn't want to defend our country with an independent | :03:00. | :03:04. | |
There are tests that take place all the time, regularly, | :03:05. | :03:11. | |
What we were talking about in that debate that took place... | :03:12. | :03:20. | |
I'm not going to get an answer to this. | :03:21. | :03:27. | |
Tom, it was clear this was going to come up this morning. It is on the | :03:28. | :03:34. | |
front page of the Sunday Times. It would seem to me the Prime Minister | :03:35. | :03:38. | |
wasn't properly briefed on how to reply. I think she probably was, but | :03:39. | :03:44. | |
the Prime Minister we now have doesn't necessarily answer all | :03:45. | :03:48. | |
questions in the straightest way. She didn't answer that one and all. | :03:49. | :03:56. | |
Unlike previous ones? She made it quite clear she was briefed. You | :03:57. | :04:03. | |
read between the Theresa May lines. By simply not answering Andrew Marr | :04:04. | :04:07. | |
four times, it is obvious she knew, and that she knew before she went | :04:08. | :04:11. | |
into the House of Commons and urged everyone to renew the ?40 billion | :04:12. | :04:17. | |
replacement programme. Of course it is an embarrassment, but does it | :04:18. | :04:21. | |
have political legs? I don't think so. She didn't mislead the Commons. | :04:22. | :04:27. | |
If she wanted to close it down, the answer should have been, these are | :04:28. | :04:32. | |
matters of national security. There's nothing more important in | :04:33. | :04:36. | |
that than our nuclear deterrent. I'm not prepared to talk about testing. | :04:37. | :04:42. | |
End of. But she didn't. Maybe you should be briefing her. That's a | :04:43. | :04:48. | |
good answer. She is an interesting interviewee. She shows it when she | :04:49. | :04:53. | |
is nervous. She was transparently uneasy answering those questions, | :04:54. | :04:57. | |
and the fact she didn't answer it definitively suggests she did know | :04:58. | :05:02. | |
and didn't want to say it, and she answered awkwardly. But how wider | :05:03. | :05:07. | |
point, that the House of Commons voted for the renewal of Trident, | :05:08. | :05:12. | |
suggests to me that in the broader sweep of things, this will not run, | :05:13. | :05:17. | |
because if there was another vote, I would suggest she'd win it again. | :05:18. | :05:23. | |
But it is an embarrassment and she handled it with a transparent | :05:24. | :05:28. | |
awkwardness. She said that the tests go on all the time, but not of the | :05:29. | :05:34. | |
missiles. Does it not show that when the Prime Minister leaves her | :05:35. | :05:38. | |
comfort zone of Home Office affairs or related matters, she often | :05:39. | :05:43. | |
struggles. We've seen it under questioning from Mr Corbyn even, and | :05:44. | :05:50. | |
we saw it again today. Absolutely. Tests of various aspects of the | :05:51. | :05:53. | |
missiles go on all the time, but there's only been five since 2000. | :05:54. | :05:59. | |
What you described wouldn't have worked, because in previous tests | :06:00. | :06:03. | |
they have always been very public about it. Look how well our missiles | :06:04. | :06:11. | |
work! She may not have misled Parliament, but she may not have | :06:12. | :06:19. | |
known about it. If she didn't know, does Michael Fallon still have a job | :06:20. | :06:23. | |
on Monday? Should Parliament know about a test that doesn't work? Some | :06:24. | :06:30. | |
would say absolutely not. Our deterrent is there to deter people | :06:31. | :06:35. | |
from attacking us. If they know that we are hitting the United States by | :06:36. | :06:41. | |
mistake rather than the Atlantic Ocean, then... There is such a thing | :06:42. | :06:45. | |
as national security, and telling all the bad guys about where we are | :06:46. | :06:51. | |
going wrong may not be a good idea. It was her first statement as Prime | :06:52. | :06:55. | |
Minister to put her case for renewal, to have the vote on | :06:56. | :07:01. | |
Trident, and in that context, it is significant not to say anything. If | :07:02. | :07:05. | |
anyone knows where the missile landed, give us a call! | :07:06. | :07:08. | |
So Donald Trump's inauguration day closed with him dancing | :07:09. | :07:10. | |
to Frank Sinatra's My Way, and whatever your view on the 45th | :07:11. | :07:13. | |
President of the United States he certainly did do it his way. | :07:14. | :07:16. | |
Not for him the idealistic call for national unity - | :07:17. | :07:18. | |
instead he used Friday's inaugural address to launch a blistering | :07:19. | :07:21. | |
attack on the dark state of the nation and the political | :07:22. | :07:24. | |
class, and to promise to take his uncompromising approach | :07:25. | :07:28. | |
from the campaign trail to the White House. | :07:29. | :07:33. | |
Here's Adam Fleming, with a reminder of how | :07:34. | :07:36. | |
First, dropping by for a cup of tea and a slightly awkward exchange | :07:37. | :07:45. | |
Then, friends, foes and predecessors watched | :07:46. | :07:54. | |
I, Donald John Trump, do solemnly swear... | :07:55. | :08:01. | |
The crowds seemed smaller than previous inaugurations, | :08:02. | :08:05. | |
the speech tougher then any previous incoming president. | :08:06. | :08:10. | |
From this day forth, it's going to be only America first. | :08:11. | :08:17. | |
In the meantime, there were sporadic protests in Washington, DC. | :08:18. | :08:41. | |
Opponents made their voices heard around the world too. | :08:42. | :08:46. | |
The President, who'd criticised the work of | :08:47. | :08:48. | |
the intelligence agencies, fitted in a visit to the CIA. | :08:49. | :08:52. | |
There is nobody that feels stronger about the intelligence community | :08:53. | :08:56. | |
And, back at the office, in the dark, a signature signalled | :08:57. | :09:08. | |
the end of the Obama era and the dawn of Trump. | :09:09. | :09:13. | |
So, as you heard there, President Trump used his | :09:14. | :09:20. | |
inauguration to repeat his campaign promise to put "America first" | :09:21. | :09:22. | |
in all his decisions, and offered some hints of what to expect | :09:23. | :09:25. | |
He talked of in America in carnage, to be rebuilt by American hands and | :09:26. | :09:41. | |
American Labour. President Trump has already started to dismantle key | :09:42. | :09:45. | |
parts of the Obama Legacy, including the unwinding of the affordable care | :09:46. | :09:50. | |
act, and the siding of the climate action plan to tackle global | :09:51. | :09:56. | |
warning. Little to say about foreign policy, but promised to eradicate | :09:57. | :10:00. | |
Islamic terrorism from the face of the Earth, insisting he would | :10:01. | :10:05. | |
restore the US military to unquestioning dominance. He also | :10:06. | :10:11. | |
said the US would develop a state missile defence system to deal with | :10:12. | :10:15. | |
threats he sees from Iran and North Korea. In a statement that painted a | :10:16. | :10:20. | |
bleak picture of the country he now runs, he said his would be a law and | :10:21. | :10:25. | |
order Administration, and he would keep the innocents safe by building | :10:26. | :10:31. | |
the border war with Mexico. One thing he didn't mention, for the | :10:32. | :10:36. | |
first time ever, there is a Eurosceptic in the oval office, who | :10:37. | :10:39. | |
is also an enthusiast for Brexit. We're joined now by Ted Malloch - | :10:40. | :10:42. | |
he's a Trump supporter who's been tipped as the president's | :10:43. | :10:45. | |
choice for US ambassador to the EU, and he's | :10:46. | :10:47. | |
just flown back from Washington. And by James Rubin - | :10:48. | :10:49. | |
he's a democrat who served Let's start with that last point I | :10:50. | :11:00. | |
made in the voice over there. We now have a Eurosceptic in the oval | :11:01. | :11:08. | |
office. He is pro-Brexit and not keen on further European Union | :11:09. | :11:11. | |
integration. What are the implications of that? First of all, | :11:12. | :11:17. | |
a renewal of the US- UK special relationship. You see the Prime | :11:18. | :11:22. | |
Minister already going to build and rebuild this relationship. Already, | :11:23. | :11:26. | |
the bust of Winston Churchill is back in the oval office. | :11:27. | :11:31. | |
Interestingly, Martin Luther King's bust is also there, so there is an | :11:32. | :11:36. | |
act of unity in that first movement of dusts. Donald Trump will be | :11:37. | :11:42. | |
oriented between bilateral relationships and not multilateral | :11:43. | :11:53. | |
or supernatural. Supranational full. What are the implications of someone | :11:54. | :11:58. | |
in the White House now not believing in it? I think we are present in the | :11:59. | :12:04. | |
unravelling of America's leadership of the West. There is now a thing | :12:05. | :12:08. | |
called the west that America has led since the end of World War II, | :12:09. | :12:16. | |
creating supranational - we just heard supernatural! These | :12:17. | :12:25. | |
institutions were created. With American leadership, the world was | :12:26. | :12:30. | |
at peace in Europe, and the world grew increasingly democratic and | :12:31. | :12:34. | |
prosperous. Wars were averted that could be extremely costly. When | :12:35. | :12:39. | |
something works in diplomacy, you don't really understand what the | :12:40. | :12:43. | |
consequences could have been. I think we've got complacent. The new | :12:44. | :12:47. | |
president is taking advantage of that. It is a terrible tragedy that | :12:48. | :12:53. | |
so many in the West take for granted the successful leadership and | :12:54. | :12:58. | |
institutions we have built. You could argue, as James Rubin has | :12:59. | :13:06. | |
argued in some articles, that... Will Mr Trump's America be more | :13:07. | :13:10. | |
involved in the world than the Obama won? Or will it continue the process | :13:11. | :13:18. | |
with running shoes on that began with Mr Obama? President Obama | :13:19. | :13:24. | |
stepped back from American leadership. He withdrew from the | :13:25. | :13:30. | |
world. He had a horrendous eight years in office, and American powers | :13:31. | :13:33. | |
have diminished everywhere in the world, not just in Europe. That | :13:34. | :13:39. | |
power will reassert. The focus will be on America first, but there are | :13:40. | :13:44. | |
foreign interests around the world... How does it reassert itself | :13:45. | :13:49. | |
around the world? I think the institutions will be recreated. Some | :13:50. | :13:54. | |
may be taken down. There could be some new ones. I think Nato itself, | :13:55. | :14:00. | |
and certainly the Defence Secretary will have discussions with Donald | :14:01. | :14:04. | |
Trump about how Nato can be reshaped, and maybe there will be | :14:05. | :14:08. | |
more burden sharing. That is an important thing for him. You are | :14:09. | :14:13. | |
tipped to be the US ambassador to Brussels, to the EU, and we are | :14:14. | :14:17. | |
still waiting to hear if that will happen. Is it true to say that Mr | :14:18. | :14:22. | |
Trump does not believe in EU integration? I think you made that | :14:23. | :14:32. | |
clear in the speech. He talked about supranational. He does not believe | :14:33. | :14:40. | |
in those kinds of organisations. He is investing himself in bilateral | :14:41. | :14:44. | |
relationships, the first of which will be with the UK. So we have a | :14:45. | :14:49. | |
president who does not believe in EU integration and has been highly | :14:50. | :14:55. | |
critical of Nato. Do the people he has appointed to defend, Secretary | :14:56. | :15:00. | |
of State, national security, do you think that will temper this | :15:01. | :15:04. | |
anti-NATO wretched? Will he come round to a more pro-NATO situation? | :15:05. | :15:12. | |
I think those of us who care about America's situation in the world | :15:13. | :15:17. | |
will come in to miss President Obama a lot. I think the Secretary of | :15:18. | :15:21. | |
State and the faculty of defence will limit the damage and will urge | :15:22. | :15:27. | |
him not to take formal steps to unravel this most powerful and most | :15:28. | :15:32. | |
successful alliance in history, the Nato alliance. But the damage is | :15:33. | :15:38. | |
already being done. When you are the leader of the West, leadership means | :15:39. | :15:42. | |
you are persuading, encouraging, bolstering your leadership and these | :15:43. | :15:49. | |
institutions by the way you speak. Millions, if not hundreds of | :15:50. | :15:53. | |
millions of people, have now heard the US say that what they care about | :15:54. | :15:55. | |
is within their borders. What do you say to that? It is such | :15:56. | :16:04. | |
an overstatement. The point is that Donald Trump is in a Jacksonian | :16:05. | :16:14. | |
tradition of national populism. He is appealing to the people first. | :16:15. | :16:17. | |
The other day, I was sitting below this page during the address, and he | :16:18. | :16:22. | |
said, everyone sitting behind me as part of the problem. Everyone in | :16:23. | :16:26. | |
front of me, the crowd and the crowd on television, is part of the | :16:27. | :16:30. | |
solution, so we are giving the Government back to the people. That | :16:31. | :16:34. | |
emphasis is going to change American life, including American | :16:35. | :16:38. | |
International relations. It doesn't moving the leak back -- it doesn't | :16:39. | :16:47. | |
mean we are moving out of Nato, it simply means we will put our | :16:48. | :16:51. | |
national interests first. There were echoes of Andrew Jackson's | :16:52. | :16:55. | |
inauguration address of 1820. That night, the Jacksonians trashed the | :16:56. | :17:01. | |
White House, but Mr Trump's people didn't do that, so there is a | :17:02. | :17:04. | |
difference there. He also said something else in the address - that | :17:05. | :17:10. | |
protectionism would lead to prosperity. I would suggest there is | :17:11. | :17:17. | |
no evidence for that in the post-war world. He talked about protecting | :17:18. | :17:23. | |
the American worker, American jobs, the American economy. I actually | :17:24. | :17:25. | |
think that Donald Trump will not turn out to be a protectionist. If | :17:26. | :17:32. | |
you read the heart of the deal... This is referring to two Republican | :17:33. | :17:39. | |
senators who introduce massive tariffs in the Hoover | :17:40. | :17:48. | |
administration. Exactly. If you read The Art Of The Deal, you will see | :17:49. | :17:52. | |
how Donald Trump deals with individuals and countries. There is | :17:53. | :17:55. | |
a lot of bluster, positioning, and I think you already see this in | :17:56. | :18:01. | |
bringing jobs by the United States. Things are going to change. Let's | :18:02. | :18:06. | |
also deal with this proposition. China is the biggest loser of this | :18:07. | :18:13. | |
election result. Let me say this: The first time in American history | :18:14. | :18:20. | |
and American president has set forth his view of the world, and it is a | :18:21. | :18:28. | |
mercantile view of the world, who makes more money, who gets more | :18:29. | :18:32. | |
trade, it doesn't look at the shared values, leadership and defends the | :18:33. | :18:36. | |
world needs. The art of the deal has no application to America's | :18:37. | :18:39. | |
leadership of the world, that's what we're learning. You can be a great | :18:40. | :18:44. | |
businessman and make great real estate deals - whether he did not is | :18:45. | :18:49. | |
debatable - but it has nothing to do with inspiring shared values from | :18:50. | :18:54. | |
the West. You saying China may lose, because he may pressure them to | :18:55. | :18:58. | |
reduce their trade deficit with the US. They may or may not. We may both | :18:59. | :19:04. | |
lose. Right now, his Secretary of State has said, and I think he will | :19:05. | :19:08. | |
walk this back when he is brief, that they will prevent the Chinese | :19:09. | :19:12. | |
from entering these islands in the South China Sea. If they were to do | :19:13. | :19:17. | |
that, it would be a blockade, and there would be a shooting war | :19:18. | :19:21. | |
between the United States and China, so US - China relations are the most | :19:22. | :19:26. | |
important bilateral relationship of the United States, and they don't | :19:27. | :19:29. | |
lend themselves to the bluff and bluster that may have worked when | :19:30. | :19:33. | |
you are trying to get a big building on second Ave in Manhattan. Is China | :19:34. | :19:39. | |
the biggest loser? I think the Chinese have a lot to lose. Gigi and | :19:40. | :19:55. | |
Ping was in Davos this week -- Xi Jin Ping was in Davos. | :19:56. | :20:01. | |
Is Germany the second biggest loser in the sense that I understand he | :20:02. | :20:07. | |
hasn't agreed time to see Angela Merkel yet, also that those close to | :20:08. | :20:15. | |
him believe that Germany is guilty of currency manipulation by adopting | :20:16. | :20:17. | |
a weak your row instead of the strong Deutschmark, and that that is | :20:18. | :20:22. | |
why they are running a huge balance of payments surplus with the United | :20:23. | :20:27. | |
States. American - German relations may not be great. There is a point | :20:28. | :20:33. | |
of view throughout Europe. You only have to talk to the southern | :20:34. | :20:36. | |
Europeans about this question. It seems like the euro has been aligned | :20:37. | :20:41. | |
to benefit Germany. Joe Stiglitz, the famous left of centre Democrat | :20:42. | :20:47. | |
economist, made the same case in a recent book. In this case, I think | :20:48. | :20:54. | |
Germany will be put under the spotlight. Angela Merkel has shown | :20:55. | :20:58. | |
herself to be the most respected and the most successful leader in | :20:59. | :21:03. | |
Europe. We who care about the West, who care about the shared values of | :21:04. | :21:07. | |
the West, should pray and hope that she is re-elected. This isn't about | :21:08. | :21:13. | |
dollars and cents. We're living in a time whether Russian leader has | :21:14. | :21:18. | |
another country in Europe and for some inexplicable reason, the | :21:19. | :21:23. | |
American president, who can use his insult diplomacy on everyone, | :21:24. | :21:26. | |
including Mrs Merkel, the only person he can't seem to find | :21:27. | :21:33. | |
anything to criticise about is Mr Putin. There are things more | :21:34. | :21:36. | |
important than the actual details of your currency. There are things like | :21:37. | :21:40. | |
preventing another war in Europe, preventing a war between the Chinese | :21:41. | :21:43. | |
and the US. You talk about the Trident missile all morning, nuclear | :21:44. | :21:50. | |
deterrence is extremely important. It doesn't lend itself to the bluff | :21:51. | :21:56. | |
and bluster of a real estate deal. I understand all that, but the fact we | :21:57. | :21:59. | |
are even talking about these things shows the new world we are moving | :22:00. | :22:03. | |
into. I'd like to get you both to react to this. This is a man that | :22:04. | :22:08. | |
ended the Bush Dynasty, a man that beat the Clinton machine. In his | :22:09. | :22:15. | |
inauguration, not only did he not reach out to the Democrats, he | :22:16. | :22:18. | |
didn't even mention the Republicans. These are changed days for us. They | :22:19. | :22:25. | |
are, and change can be good or disastrous. I'm worried that it's | :22:26. | :22:28. | |
easy in the world of diplomacy and in them -- for the leadership of the | :22:29. | :22:34. | |
United States to break relationships and ruin alliances. These are things | :22:35. | :22:39. | |
that were carefully nurtured. George Schultz, the American Secretary of | :22:40. | :22:46. | |
State under Reagan talked about gardening, the slow, careful | :22:47. | :22:50. | |
creation of a place with bilateral relationships that were blossoming | :22:51. | :22:55. | |
and flowering multilateral relationships that take decades to | :22:56. | :22:58. | |
create, and he will throw them away in a matter of days. The final | :22:59. | :23:03. | |
word... I work for George Schultz. He was a Marine who stood up | :23:04. | :23:07. | |
America, defended America, who would be in favour of many of the things | :23:08. | :23:12. | |
that Donald Trump and the tramp Administration... Give him a call. | :23:13. | :23:18. | |
His top aide macs that I've spoken to are appalled by Mr Trump's | :23:19. | :23:21. | |
abdication of leadership. He is going to our radically -- he's going | :23:22. | :23:30. | |
to eradicate extremist Islam from the face of the year. Is that | :23:31. | :23:35. | |
realistic? I know people in the national security realm have worked | :23:36. | :23:38. | |
on a plan. They say they will have such a plan in some detail within 90 | :23:39. | :23:45. | |
days. Lets hope they succeed. We have run out of time. As a issues. | :23:46. | :23:50. | |
Thank you, both. -- fascinating issues. | :23:51. | :23:54. | |
So Theresa May promised a big speech on Brexit, and this week - | :23:55. | :23:57. | |
perhaps against expectation - she delivered, trying to answer | :23:58. | :23:59. | |
claims that the government didn't have a plan with an explicit | :24:00. | :24:02. | |
wish-list of what she hopes to achieve in negotiations with the EU. | :24:03. | :24:04. | |
To her allies it was ambitious, bold, optimistic - | :24:05. | :24:07. | |
to her opponents it was full of contradictions | :24:08. | :24:08. | |
Here's Adam again, with a reminder of the speech and how | :24:09. | :24:12. | |
There are speeches, and there are speeches. | :24:13. | :24:17. | |
Like Theresa May's 12 principles for a Brexit deal leading | :24:18. | :24:21. | |
to the UK fully out of the EU but still friendly in terms | :24:22. | :24:24. | |
This agreement should allow for the freest possible trade | :24:25. | :24:28. | |
in goods and services between Britain and the EU's member states. | :24:29. | :24:30. | |
It should give British companies the maximum | :24:31. | :24:36. | |
operate within European markets and let European businesses do | :24:37. | :24:39. | |
She also said no deal would be better than the wrong deal, | :24:40. | :24:47. | |
We want to test what people think about what she's just said. | :24:48. | :25:03. | |
Do we have any of our future negotiating | :25:04. | :25:05. | |
As the European Parliament voted for its new | :25:06. | :25:10. | |
president, its chief negotiator sounded off. | :25:11. | :25:17. | |
Saying, OK, if our European counterparts don't accept | :25:18. | :25:19. | |
it, we're going to make from Britain a sort | :25:20. | :25:23. | |
of free zone or tax haven, I | :25:24. | :25:25. | |
The Prime Minister of Malta, the country that's assumed the EU's | :25:26. | :25:32. | |
rotating presidency, spoke in sorrow and a bit of anger. | :25:33. | :25:34. | |
We want a fair deal for the United Kingdom, but | :25:35. | :25:39. | |
that deal necessarily needs to be inferior to membership. | :25:40. | :25:49. | |
Next, let's hear from some enthusiastic | :25:50. | :25:51. | |
leavers, like, I don't know, the Daily Mail? | :25:52. | :25:56. | |
The paper lapped it up with this adoring front page. | :25:57. | :26:00. | |
For Brexiteers, it was all manna from heaven. | :26:01. | :26:04. | |
I think today means we are a big step closer to becoming | :26:05. | :26:06. | |
an independent country again, with control of our own laws, | :26:07. | :26:09. | |
I was chuckling at some of it, to be honest, because | :26:10. | :26:15. | |
There were various phrases there which I've used myself again and | :26:16. | :26:19. | |
Do we have any of those so-called Remoaners? | :26:20. | :26:24. | |
There will, at the end of this deal process, | :26:25. | :26:26. | |
so politicians get to vote on the stitch-up, but | :26:27. | :26:30. | |
We take the view as Liberal Democrats that | :26:31. | :26:33. | |
if this process started with democracy last June, | :26:34. | :26:35. | |
We trusted the people with departure, we must trust them | :26:36. | :26:39. | |
Do we have anyone from Labour, or are you all | :26:40. | :26:45. | |
watching it in a small room somewhere? | :26:46. | :26:47. | |
Throughout the speech, there seemed to be an implied threat that | :26:48. | :26:55. | |
somewhere along the line, if all her optimism of a deal | :26:56. | :26:58. | |
with the European Union didn't work, we would move | :26:59. | :27:00. | |
into a low-tax, corporate taxation, bargain-basement economy on the | :27:01. | :27:02. | |
I think she needs to be a bit clearer about what | :27:03. | :27:05. | |
The Labour leader suggested he'd tell | :27:06. | :27:13. | |
his MPs to vote in favour of starting a Brexit process if | :27:14. | :27:16. | |
Parliament was given the choice, sparking a mini pre-revolt among | :27:17. | :27:18. | |
Finally, do we have anyone from big business here? | :27:19. | :27:24. | |
Of course, your all in Davos at the World Economic | :27:25. | :27:33. | |
Clarity, first of all, really codified what many of us have been | :27:34. | :27:43. | |
anticipating since the referendum result, | :27:44. | :27:45. | |
particularly around the | :27:46. | :27:46. | |
I think what we've also seen today is the Government's | :27:47. | :27:50. | |
willingness to put a bit of edge into the negotiating dynamic, and I | :27:51. | :27:53. | |
Trade negotiations are negotiations, and you have to lay out, and you | :27:54. | :27:58. | |
have to be pretty tough to get what you want. | :27:59. | :28:00. | |
Although some business people on the slopes speculated | :28:01. | :28:02. | |
about moving some of their operations out of Brexit Britain. | :28:03. | :28:04. | |
We saw there the instant reaction of Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn, | :28:05. | :28:23. | |
but how will the party respond to the challenge posed by Brexit | :28:24. | :28:25. | |
Well, I'm joined now by the Shadow Home Secretary, Diane Abbott. | :28:26. | :28:29. | |
People know that Ukip and the Tories are for Brexit. The Lib Dems are | :28:30. | :28:38. | |
four remain. What is Labour for? For respecting the result of the | :28:39. | :28:43. | |
referendum. It was a 72% turnout, very high for an election of that | :28:44. | :28:47. | |
nature, and we believe you have to respect that result. You couldn't | :28:48. | :28:50. | |
have a situation where people like Tim Farron are saying to people, | :28:51. | :28:55. | |
millions of people, sorry, you got it wrong, we in London no better. | :28:56. | :28:58. | |
However, how the Tories go forward from here has to be subject to | :28:59. | :29:06. | |
parliamentary scrutiny. Is it Shadow Cabinet policy to vote for the | :29:07. | :29:11. | |
triggering of Article 50? Our policy is not to block Article 50. That is | :29:12. | :29:14. | |
what the leader was saying this morning. So are you for it? Our | :29:15. | :29:21. | |
policy is not to block it. You are talking about voting for it. We | :29:22. | :29:26. | |
don't know what the Supreme Court is going to say, and we don't know what | :29:27. | :29:32. | |
legislation Government will bring forward, and we don't know what | :29:33. | :29:35. | |
amendment we will move, but we're clear that we will not vote to block | :29:36. | :29:42. | |
it. OK, so you won't bow to stop it, but you could abstain? No, what we | :29:43. | :29:49. | |
will do... Either you vote for or against all you abstain. There are | :29:50. | :29:54. | |
too many unanswered questions. For instance, the position of EU | :29:55. | :29:57. | |
migrants working and living in this country. You may not get the answer | :29:58. | :30:01. | |
to that before Article 50 comes before the Commons, so what would | :30:02. | :30:06. | |
you do then? We are giving to amend it. We can only tell you exactly how | :30:07. | :30:11. | |
we will amend it when we understand what sort of legislation the | :30:12. | :30:14. | |
Government is putting forward, and in the course of moving those | :30:15. | :30:18. | |
amendments, we will ask the questions that the people of Britain | :30:19. | :30:22. | |
whether they voted to leave remain want answered. | :30:23. | :30:27. | |
When you come to a collective view, will there be a three line whip? I | :30:28. | :30:36. | |
can't tell you, because we have not seen the government 's legislation. | :30:37. | :30:40. | |
But when you see it, you will come to a collective view. Many regard | :30:41. | :30:47. | |
this as extremely important. Will there be a three line whip on | :30:48. | :30:52. | |
Labour's collective view? Because it is important, we shouldn't get ahead | :30:53. | :30:57. | |
of ourselves. When we see what the Supreme Court says, and crucially, | :30:58. | :31:01. | |
when we see what the government position is, you will hear what the | :31:02. | :31:06. | |
whipping is. Will shadow ministers be able to defy any three line whip | :31:07. | :31:13. | |
on this? That is not normally the case. But they did on an early vote | :31:14. | :31:18. | |
that the government introduced on Article 50. Those who voted against | :31:19. | :31:24. | |
it are still there. In the Blair years, you certainly couldn't defy a | :31:25. | :31:28. | |
three line whip. We will see what happens going forward. I remember | :31:29. | :31:34. | |
when the Tories were hopelessly divided over the EU. All these | :31:35. | :31:38. | |
Maastricht votes and an list arguments. Now it is Labour. Just | :31:39. | :31:45. | |
another symptom of Mr Corbyn's poor leadership. Not at all. Two thirds | :31:46. | :31:57. | |
voted to leave, a third to remain. We are seeking to bring the country | :31:58. | :32:02. | |
and the party together. We will do that by pointing out how disastrous | :32:03. | :32:07. | |
a Tory Brexit would be. Meanwhile, around 80 Labour MPs will defy a | :32:08. | :32:17. | |
three line whip. It's too early to say that. Will you publish what you | :32:18. | :32:21. | |
believe the negotiating goal should be? We are clear on it. We think | :32:22. | :32:27. | |
that the economy, jobs and living standards should be the priority. | :32:28. | :32:33. | |
What Theresa May is saying is that holding her party together is her | :32:34. | :32:38. | |
priority. She is putting party above country. Does Labour think we should | :32:39. | :32:45. | |
remain members of the single market? Ideally, in terms of jobs and the | :32:46. | :32:49. | |
economy, of course. Ritt -ish business thinks that as well. Is | :32:50. | :32:54. | |
Labour policy that we should remain a member of the single market? | :32:55. | :32:59. | |
Labour leaves that jobs and the economy comes first, and if they | :33:00. | :33:03. | |
come first, you would want to remain part of the single market. But to | :33:04. | :33:10. | |
remain a member? Jobs and the economy comes first, and to do that, | :33:11. | :33:17. | |
ideally, guess. So with that, comes free movement of people, the | :33:18. | :33:22. | |
jurisdiction of the European, and a multi-million never shipped thief. | :33:23. | :33:28. | |
Is Labour prepared to pay that? Money is neither here nor there. | :33:29. | :33:34. | |
Because the Tories will be asked to pay a lot of money... The EU has | :33:35. | :33:42. | |
made it clear that you cannot have... I am asking for Labour's | :33:43. | :33:50. | |
position. Our position is rooted in the reality, and the reality is that | :33:51. | :33:55. | |
you cannot have the benefits of the member of the European Union, | :33:56. | :33:59. | |
including being a member of the single market, without | :34:00. | :34:02. | |
responsibility, including free movement of people. Free movement, | :34:03. | :34:06. | |
is remaining under the jurisdiction of the European Court of Justice. Is | :34:07. | :34:15. | |
that the Labour position? You've said that Labour wants to remain a | :34:16. | :34:20. | |
member of the single market. That is the price tag that comes with it. | :34:21. | :34:24. | |
Does Labour agree with paying that price tag? We are not pre-empting | :34:25. | :34:30. | |
negotiation. Our goals are protect jobs and the British economy. Is it | :34:31. | :34:35. | |
Labour's position that we remain a member of the customs union? Well, | :34:36. | :34:44. | |
if we don't, I don't see how Theresa May can keep our promises and has | :34:45. | :34:54. | |
unfettered access... You said Labour's position was clear. It is! | :34:55. | :35:03. | |
It is clear that Theresa May... I am not asking about Theresa May. Is it | :35:04. | :35:09. | |
Labour's position to remain a member of the customs union? It is Labour's | :35:10. | :35:15. | |
position to do what is right for British industry. Depending on how | :35:16. | :35:19. | |
the negotiations go, it may prove that coming out of the customs | :35:20. | :35:24. | |
union, as Theresa May has indicated she wants to do, could prove | :35:25. | :35:29. | |
catastrophic, and could actually destroy some of her promises. You do | :35:30. | :35:35. | |
accept that if we are member of the customs union, we cannot do our own | :35:36. | :35:42. | |
free trade deals? What free trade deals are you talking about? The | :35:43. | :35:48. | |
ones that Labour might want to do in the future. First, we have to | :35:49. | :35:53. | |
protect British jobs and British industries. If you are talking about | :35:54. | :35:58. | |
free trade deals with Donald Trump, the danger is that Theresa May will | :35:59. | :36:02. | |
get drawn into a free-trade deal with America that will open up the | :36:03. | :36:09. | |
NHS to American corporate... The cards are in Theresa May's hands. If | :36:10. | :36:15. | |
she takes us out of the single market, if she takes us out of the | :36:16. | :36:19. | |
customs union, we will have to deal with that. How big a crisis for | :36:20. | :36:24. | |
Jeremy Corbyn will be if Labour loses both by-elections in February. | :36:25. | :36:30. | |
I don't believe we will lose both. But if he did? I am not anticipating | :36:31. | :36:39. | |
that. Is Labour lost two seats in a midterm of a Tory government, would | :36:40. | :36:43. | |
that be business as usual? I'm not prepared to see us lose those seats, | :36:44. | :36:47. | |
so I will not talk about something that will not happen. Thank you. | :36:48. | :36:51. | |
You're watching the Sunday Politics. | :36:52. | :36:52. | |
We say goodbye to viewers in Scotland, who leave us now | :36:53. | :36:54. | |
Coming up here in 20 minutes, The Week Ahead, | :36:55. | :36:58. | |
when we'll be talking to Business Minister Margot James | :36:59. | :37:00. | |
about the government's new industrial strategy and that | :37:01. | :37:03. | |
crucial Supreme Court ruling on Brexit. | :37:04. | :37:06. | |
First, though, the Sunday Politics where you are. | :37:07. | :37:16. | |
Welcome to the Sunday Politics in the Midlands, which voted | :37:17. | :37:19. | |
Now Ukip's new leader is plotting a spectacular sequel, | :37:20. | :37:26. | |
in the Labour seat vacated by Tristram Hunt. | :37:27. | :37:30. | |
No less spectacular, our guests today are Jess Phillips - | :37:31. | :37:35. | |
Outspoken Labour MP for Birmingham Yardley, | :37:36. | :37:38. | |
and Philip Dunne - Conservative MP for Ludlow | :37:39. | :37:41. | |
and Minister of State at the Health Department. | :37:42. | :37:47. | |
Because if Labour thought they'd wrong-foot their opponents | :37:48. | :37:53. | |
by triggering that Stoke Central by-election so soon after Tristram | :37:54. | :37:56. | |
Hunt announced his resignation, they may not have bargained for Ukip | :37:57. | :38:05. | |
being quite so quick off the mark. | :38:06. | :38:06. | |
Ten would-be Ukip contenders stood aside so that their new leader | :38:07. | :38:09. | |
Paul Nuttall could be unveiled, yesterday, as their choice for this | :38:10. | :38:12. | |
hotly-contested election on the 23rd of February. | :38:13. | :38:16. | |
Meanwhile the Shadow Health Secretary, John Ashworth, | :38:17. | :38:20. | |
was also in the constituency getting the Labour message across. | :38:21. | :38:25. | |
It certainly feels as if this campaign is well underway already. | :38:26. | :38:37. | |
And the Ukip leader Paul Nuttall, fresh from that whirlwind selection | :38:38. | :38:39. | |
process, joins us now from Central London. | :38:40. | :38:41. | |
and minions. If you're taking a bit of a risk, aren't you, so soon into | :38:42. | :38:50. | |
your leadership? If you lose you could be on the back foot before you | :38:51. | :38:54. | |
started. When I took over the leadership back at the end of | :38:55. | :38:57. | |
November I said I would lead from the front and I'm doing precisely | :38:58. | :39:03. | |
that. We've been looking at the seat of Stoke-on-Trent Central for many | :39:04. | :39:10. | |
months now. We know that it voted overwhelmingly for Brexit, nearly | :39:11. | :39:15. | |
70%. We know them graphically it is fertile ground for Ukip and | :39:16. | :39:18. | |
generally confident we can go in, put in a good performance, and who | :39:19. | :39:24. | |
knows, they could have Ukip MP in February. How well do you know the | :39:25. | :39:32. | |
place? Firstly, I lived for a short period of time in Shelton. I've been | :39:33. | :39:37. | |
there many times speaking to the Ukip branch. I'm from Bootle, which | :39:38. | :39:44. | |
is very similar to Stoke-on-Trent. It's a post-industrial town. I | :39:45. | :39:48. | |
understand the exam anxieties people have been constituencies like these | :39:49. | :39:52. | |
and will be going out, knocking on doors and talking about the issues | :39:53. | :39:55. | |
that matter to working-class people, whether that is law and order, | :39:56. | :39:59. | |
whether that is controlling immigration, whether that is putting | :40:00. | :40:04. | |
British people to the top of the job market or indeed housing lists, and | :40:05. | :40:08. | |
solving the problem within the NHS. I guarantee, with this new Labour | :40:09. | :40:12. | |
leadership they have, which is very much focused on North London and the | :40:13. | :40:16. | |
Islington set, talking about fair trade and climate change and what | :40:17. | :40:22. | |
not, we will resonate with the people of Stoke far more than Labour | :40:23. | :40:28. | |
well. Stoke is a place with a very strong sense of its own identity as | :40:29. | :40:32. | |
indeed has Liverpool, so isn't there a point that a Scouser like yourself | :40:33. | :40:38. | |
is not easy sell in Stoke? I think I'm an easier sell them the last two | :40:39. | :40:43. | |
Labour MPs, public schoolboys from down south. It's easy to sell a | :40:44. | :40:51. | |
working class Bootle boy in a working class can tip is | :40:52. | :40:58. | |
constituency. We'll be running at big campaign, professionally run, | :40:59. | :41:04. | |
and if we win perhaps we can go on and win seats all over the Midlands | :41:05. | :41:09. | |
and the north of England. You are calling it Brexit Central but it's | :41:10. | :41:16. | |
clear that Labour wanted to be NHS Central. Bearing in mind the local | :41:17. | :41:22. | |
hospital in that area has had some of the longest trolley waits in | :41:23. | :41:27. | |
Britain, you may say the NHS is running a stronger issue on the | :41:28. | :41:29. | |
streets than Brexit. I think both are. I've just listened to Diane | :41:30. | :41:39. | |
Abbott trying to set out Labour's position on Brexit and it seems they | :41:40. | :41:44. | |
want to stay in the single market, which means not controlling our | :41:45. | :41:48. | |
borders,... I agree the NHS is going to be a massive issue in this and | :41:49. | :41:55. | |
Ukip's position is that they have never gone into any election calling | :41:56. | :42:00. | |
for the privatisation of the NHS. We want more money put into it and we | :42:01. | :42:04. | |
will get this money from the foreign aid budget which is now costing | :42:05. | :42:13. | |
British people ?30 million. What the NHS needs is a quick cash injection | :42:14. | :42:17. | |
and I would rather British taxpayers money be spent on the NHS than | :42:18. | :42:23. | |
giving foreign aid to countries like India, China and Brazil who are | :42:24. | :42:26. | |
richer than us. Isn't the real problem that what has been your | :42:27. | :42:31. | |
selling point is no long unique to you. The Chew the Tories are just as | :42:32. | :42:37. | |
much the party of Brexit now, and some of the things Theresa May have | :42:38. | :42:40. | |
been saying over the last few days could equally have come from the | :42:41. | :42:45. | |
lips of any number of Ukip politicians. If you dig into the | :42:46. | :42:49. | |
detail of her speech she talks about a transitional period and a phasing, | :42:50. | :42:53. | |
there is no end state on this. What I challenge her to do is to set a | :42:54. | :42:57. | |
date when we will be out of the European Union and it will be keen. | :42:58. | :43:03. | |
Also there is no call for immediate immigration control. Literally | :43:04. | :43:05. | |
millions of people can come here between now and the end of Article | :43:06. | :43:10. | |
50. We know with Theresa May from her time as Home Secretary, she has | :43:11. | :43:14. | |
always been good at talking the talk, curtailing radical Islam, or | :43:15. | :43:20. | |
getting immigration down, but she never walks the walk. Talk is cheap. | :43:21. | :43:27. | |
If you want to vote for a politician who has always called for a clean | :43:28. | :43:31. | |
Brexit, controlling our own borders, signing our own trade deals, vote | :43:32. | :43:35. | |
Paul Nuttall! Thank you. So what is the mood in Stoke itself, | :43:36. | :43:41. | |
more than six months after it recorded one of the UK's biggest | :43:42. | :43:44. | |
Brexit votes? Tristram Hunt's resignation sets-up | :43:45. | :43:46. | |
the first real test of public We've just heard from Ukip's | :43:47. | :43:48. | |
candidate Paul Nuttall. But before the other contenders | :43:49. | :43:54. | |
converge on Stoke Central, our Political Reporter Kathryn | :43:55. | :43:58. | |
Stanczyszyn has been getting a taste So you start with a divided party | :43:59. | :44:01. | |
with a shrinking majority, add some upcoming boundary changes, | :44:02. | :44:15. | |
and throw in a bit of national The perfect ingredients | :44:16. | :44:18. | |
for a cracking by-election. Tristram Hunt's surprise resignation | :44:19. | :44:25. | |
from the Stoke-on-Trent Central seat has set the cat amongst | :44:26. | :44:28. | |
the political pigeons - and caused But what does it mean | :44:29. | :44:31. | |
for voters here? And my family's always | :44:32. | :44:36. | |
been labour, so Like, what they talk about makes | :44:37. | :44:39. | |
more sense for this area. But despite this being | :44:40. | :44:49. | |
Labour heartland, At the last general election | :44:50. | :44:51. | |
they significantly narrowed Labour's majority and pipped | :44:52. | :44:56. | |
the Conservatives to second place. And this was one of the most | :44:57. | :45:00. | |
pro-Brexit areas of the country. So, as we get ready to trigger | :45:01. | :45:04. | |
Article 50, will those lingering Brexit is still the number | :45:05. | :45:07. | |
one issue with voters. And of course Stoke-on-Trent - | :45:08. | :45:12. | |
Brexit capital of It's still going to be a big issue - | :45:13. | :45:15. | |
how we going to resolve it? What sort of Brexit | :45:16. | :45:23. | |
are we going to have? These things are going to be | :45:24. | :45:25. | |
key in the selection. You can't talk about this | :45:26. | :45:28. | |
by-election though without throwing in another ingredient, the complex | :45:29. | :45:30. | |
local political situation. The local council is | :45:31. | :45:35. | |
run by a coalition - the City Independants, | :45:36. | :45:41. | |
Ukip and the Conservatives - all of which will be | :45:42. | :45:43. | |
fielding a candidate. in 2015 as some of its solid | :45:44. | :45:45. | |
base went elsewhere. I'm a Conservative so | :45:46. | :45:50. | |
I stay Conservative. They've done more for us than Labour | :45:51. | :45:57. | |
have ever done for us. I'd say Ukip, really, | :45:58. | :46:00. | |
if it was about immigration, because I don't think any other | :46:01. | :46:04. | |
party will do anything about it. You're one of these people we keep | :46:05. | :46:07. | |
hearing about - Labour heartland My dad would turn in | :46:08. | :46:12. | |
his grave if he knew I Just the pathetic policies | :46:13. | :46:17. | |
of the Labour Party, So all eyes are on politics | :46:18. | :46:28. | |
in the Potteries. But just who will come | :46:29. | :46:34. | |
up with the goods? Two other candidates | :46:35. | :46:40. | |
are so far declared. For the Liberal Democrats, | :46:41. | :46:44. | |
Dr Zulfiqar Ali, and for the Christian People's Alliance, | :46:45. | :46:46. | |
Godfrey Davies. Labour will unveil theirs | :46:47. | :46:50. | |
on Wednesday, with the Conservatives and the Greens also expected | :46:51. | :46:52. | |
to name their choices we have tended to think of Stoke | :46:53. | :47:08. | |
Central is the safest of Labour seats. It's been years for 60 years. | :47:09. | :47:15. | |
But judging by what we've heard so far you're in for a real fight. I | :47:16. | :47:19. | |
think the Labour Party is still the favourite to win according to the | :47:20. | :47:23. | |
bookies but I think it would be wrong to think that we didn't have | :47:24. | :47:28. | |
to really listened to the people daren't hear what they're saying. | :47:29. | :47:32. | |
They're talking about infighting, they're saying the policies are | :47:33. | :47:37. | |
pathetic... To not like infighting and then vote Ukip after they have | :47:38. | :47:41. | |
punch-ups in the European Parliament seems like a strange choice. Those | :47:42. | :47:49. | |
charges could be laid at the Labour Party, and I'd be lying if I said I | :47:50. | :47:52. | |
wasn't the case. But I think the Labour Party are now just trying to | :47:53. | :47:55. | |
get on with the job. And that looks like it means focusing on the health | :47:56. | :48:02. | |
issue, and Stoke has been identified as one of the areas of key concern | :48:03. | :48:06. | |
about trolley waits in any. That's a real vulnerability feel Parliament, | :48:07. | :48:14. | |
your Government, your party,... Of course the appalling situation | :48:15. | :48:19. | |
developed under Labour and revealed answers conservatives. It's an | :48:20. | :48:25. | |
issue, were in the middle of winter which is a difficult time for the | :48:26. | :48:29. | |
health service. But I don't think this is just about the health issue | :48:30. | :48:32. | |
with this in action. I think the people of Stoke have to make a | :48:33. | :48:36. | |
decision. Time has moved on significantly since the last | :48:37. | :48:41. | |
election. We are now in a different environment. We have a Prime | :48:42. | :48:44. | |
Minister who is determined to deliver the referendum result and | :48:45. | :48:49. | |
the people of stroke -- Stoke have to do is decide if they want to be | :48:50. | :48:57. | |
represented by someone closely linked to the Prime Minister or to | :48:58. | :49:02. | |
Jeremy Corbyn. But more apparent as surely this wedge between user party | :49:03. | :49:13. | |
that campaign to remain in and... Everything she said, as I said to | :49:14. | :49:18. | |
Paul Nuttall, could have come from Ukip. And you on this issue. Paul | :49:19. | :49:33. | |
establishment, elitist argument establishment, elitist argument | :49:34. | :49:37. | |
which is funny given that he is the one in London right now. He stood | :49:38. | :49:42. | |
for the Conservatives on one occasion. I believe his heart is | :49:43. | :49:46. | |
really in it in Stoke! Believe it when I see it. The Labour Party has | :49:47. | :49:54. | |
to go to Stoke, go to the voters and be really honest with them about our | :49:55. | :49:59. | |
positions. Let me put to you a suggestion which is doing the rounds | :50:00. | :50:03. | |
of Westminster. I suspect you'll deny it. The Tories will put in a | :50:04. | :50:08. | |
token effort in Stoke and Ukip will put in a token effort in Copland as | :50:09. | :50:15. | |
a sort of informal trade. I will deny it. There is no deal beneath | :50:16. | :50:22. | |
them. We have two by-elections coming up there likely to be on the | :50:23. | :50:25. | |
same day in February. There will be a big focus on these two seats. We | :50:26. | :50:31. | |
are a close second in Copland. We have a powerful campaign to lead | :50:32. | :50:36. | |
there. And we are only 33 votes behind Ukip in Stoke. We will be | :50:37. | :50:39. | |
fighting hard for Conservative candidates in both seats. | :50:40. | :50:41. | |
It's hardly surprising Stoke Central has Brexit Is written all over it. | :50:42. | :50:43. | |
But after a week in which Theresa May signalled Britain's departure | :50:44. | :50:46. | |
from Europe's single market, business people right | :50:47. | :50:49. | |
across the economic heartlands of Britain are thinking | :50:50. | :50:53. | |
about what this means for them - from the executive boardroom | :50:54. | :50:56. | |
to the butcher, the baker and the candlestick maker. | :50:57. | :50:59. | |
The butcher was among the people Joanne Writtle | :51:00. | :51:02. | |
"Deal or no deal" - the Prime Minister couldn't have | :51:03. | :51:08. | |
been clearer in her keynote speech on Tuesday. | :51:09. | :51:11. | |
Brexit means exit, not just from the EU but | :51:12. | :51:14. | |
Associate membership of the European Union, | :51:15. | :51:21. | |
or anything that leaves us half-in half-out. | :51:22. | :51:24. | |
I want to be clear - what I am proposing | :51:25. | :51:28. | |
cannot mean membership of the single market. | :51:29. | :51:32. | |
Bridgnorth butchers Mike and Sarah Pearce voted Leave, | :51:33. | :51:35. | |
I want this United Kingdom to emerge from this period | :51:36. | :51:40. | |
of change stronger, Sarah, more united. | :51:41. | :51:47. | |
of change stronger, fairer, more united. | :51:48. | :51:48. | |
So we will take back control of our laws | :51:49. | :51:52. | |
and bring an end to the | :51:53. | :51:53. | |
jurisdiction of the European court of Justice in Britain. | :51:54. | :51:55. | |
She's going for what the country wants, then. | :51:56. | :51:57. | |
At on the streets there was plenty of support for the PM. | :51:58. | :52:02. | |
I think we should go hard, and stay out altogether. | :52:03. | :52:07. | |
In the Commons, concerns about the economic | :52:08. | :52:12. | |
The Prime Minister set out a plan to leave the European Union | :52:13. | :52:18. | |
but she did not set out plan to keep anything | :52:19. | :52:20. | |
like the current access to our biggest single market for jobs, | :52:21. | :52:24. | |
So far the economic indicators are generally positive. | :52:25. | :52:29. | |
The weak pound is helping Midlands exporters and | :52:30. | :52:32. | |
The question now is could a hard Brexit translate into a | :52:33. | :52:38. | |
And with that thought in mind, we the region's economy? | :52:39. | :52:49. | |
And with that thought in mind, we are hearing serious misgivings, | :52:50. | :52:54. | |
particularly from the automotive sector, about what a hard Brexit 's | :52:55. | :53:01. | |
departure could mean. I am delighted that your reporter was in my | :53:02. | :53:05. | |
constituency last week. It has just won Great Britain's high street | :53:06. | :53:13. | |
market town. I'm making a serious point... I think what the Prime | :53:14. | :53:20. | |
Minister laid out on Tuesday was a serious, pragmatic approach to did | :53:21. | :53:23. | |
taking the UK out of the EU. What she was talking about in terms of | :53:24. | :53:28. | |
business relationships, which she and persist last week, which we need | :53:29. | :53:32. | |
to have a free take trade agreement with the EU and that will form part | :53:33. | :53:36. | |
part. So when we come out of the part. So when we come out of the | :53:37. | :53:41. | |
single market we do the best deal for British industry and services to | :53:42. | :53:44. | |
Europe. I've been talking to the Europe. I've been talking to the | :53:45. | :53:51. | |
regional direction of the employers's organisation. There are | :53:52. | :54:01. | |
real concerns about controls on imports, customs, technical delays, | :54:02. | :54:04. | |
which are worrying to business. That is why we have to have a serious the | :54:05. | :54:09. | |
go see Asian. It will be in the European nations' interest to | :54:10. | :54:17. | |
negotiate with Britain. They are negotiating with countries all over | :54:18. | :54:20. | |
the world which have less significant relationships with you | :54:21. | :54:25. | |
Europe. It is in their interests to do a deal with Britain. It is in | :54:26. | :54:31. | |
Britain's interests to do a deal with all sorts of places. As you see | :54:32. | :54:38. | |
the economic risks to the country? I am very worried about the potential | :54:39. | :54:44. | |
that we are going to, hilariously, create more pure bureaucracy and red | :54:45. | :54:51. | |
EU. In Stoke, 50% of ceramics go to EU. In Stoke, 50% of ceramics go to | :54:52. | :54:57. | |
the EU. But we cannot harvest tariffs lessening regulations on | :54:58. | :55:04. | |
things like Chinese dumping meaning in the Midlands businesses start to | :55:05. | :55:07. | |
struggle. Whilst Theresa May made some very clear sound bites, what is | :55:08. | :55:14. | |
not clear is some of the details about exactly what it will mean to | :55:15. | :55:20. | |
the industries here. So you want more clarity still? Clarity is | :55:21. | :55:23. | |
important, and that was the first point in her 12 objectives. We have | :55:24. | :55:28. | |
just heard Diane Abbott being as clear as mud on their position. In | :55:29. | :55:33. | |
contrast Theresa May has a vision for Britain's place in the world, a | :55:34. | :55:37. | |
global vision for British industry and we will hear more about the | :55:38. | :55:40. | |
industrial strategy next week. Thank you both. | :55:41. | :55:42. | |
Let's get our round-up now of the other political developments | :55:43. | :55:44. | |
making the news here over the past week. | :55:45. | :55:46. | |
60 Seconds is brought to us today by Sarah Bishop. | :55:47. | :55:52. | |
Fraud allegations against the former deputy leader | :55:53. | :55:55. | |
of Sandwell Council have been referred to West Midlands Police. | :55:56. | :55:59. | |
It follows a council investigation into the allocation of council | :56:00. | :56:02. | |
houses which "seemed to benefit" members of Councillor Mahboob | :56:03. | :56:06. | |
Around 300 people joined a protest against cuts to disability services, | :56:07. | :56:12. | |
Coventry Council has scrapped a third of its bus lanes. | :56:13. | :56:18. | |
They hope it will cut pollution and congestion on the city's roads. | :56:19. | :56:21. | |
Shrewsbury and Telford Hospitals Trust is looking for a new sandwich | :56:22. | :56:25. | |
supplier after the old one refused a request from health bosses | :56:26. | :56:28. | |
And Labour's Sion Simon launched his campaign to become | :56:29. | :56:33. | |
West Midands Mayor by calling for an end to the Barnett Formula, | :56:34. | :56:37. | |
which he says short-changes the English regions. | :56:38. | :56:41. | |
It's not fair that they should have better hospitals and better schools | :56:42. | :56:44. | |
than us even though we pay the same tax. | :56:45. | :56:47. | |
I just want our fair share of the national pie - a fair crack | :56:48. | :56:51. | |
"They", in this case, being the Scots and the Welsh, | :56:52. | :57:00. | |
who get significantly more per head of the population under the public | :57:01. | :57:03. | |
spending formula that's been used by successive Governments | :57:04. | :57:06. | |
The other candidates so far declared are James Burn for the Greens, | :57:07. | :57:13. | |
Beverley Neilsen for the Liberal Democrats, | :57:14. | :57:17. | |
and Andy Street for the Conservatives. | :57:18. | :57:23. | |
If the old chestnut, to make, as his keynote message. That successive | :57:24. | :57:33. | |
governments have shown not the slightest interest in changing this | :57:34. | :57:36. | |
so-called Barnett Formula. I think that Thorn the thing he is getting a | :57:37. | :57:43. | |
trust is the idea of England, and ASBOs there's an element of | :57:44. | :57:47. | |
patriotism, in fighting to make sure we get our fair share. Birmingham in | :57:48. | :57:52. | |
the West Midlands have been decimated in a variety of formulas. | :57:53. | :57:56. | |
Our schools funding is about to plummet in Birmingham. 10 million -- | :57:57. | :58:06. | |
tens of millions will be lost. It can't be right that per head of | :58:07. | :58:10. | |
population in Scotland they get ten and a half thousand. In the Midlands | :58:11. | :58:18. | |
a thousand 750. Especially when we have a larger population... It's | :58:19. | :58:21. | |
absolutely bizarre. Here we have someone standing to become mayor of | :58:22. | :58:27. | |
the West Midlands who is talking more about what he cannot do for | :58:28. | :58:29. | |
Scotland in what he can do for Birmingham. What the wide West | :58:30. | :58:36. | |
Midlands area needs is to get behind the West Midlands and the end. We | :58:37. | :58:40. | |
need a who can deliver on improving the lot of people living in the West | :58:41. | :58:46. | |
Midlands area. What about kids in school? And not attacking Scotland. | :58:47. | :58:50. | |
What is he saying about the fact that in my constituency alone, | :58:51. | :58:56. | |
millions of pounds is being taken out... What is he saying about money | :58:57. | :59:04. | |
taken from schools? West Midlands MP whose constituency was in the bottom | :59:05. | :59:11. | |
seven you get hundreds of pounds more for every child in your school | :59:12. | :59:15. | |
divided from the mine. There needs to be better equity in delivering | :59:16. | :59:19. | |
school funding. A final quick thought from you. He described your | :59:20. | :59:29. | |
candidate is a man of shining city centres who doesn't know that much | :59:30. | :59:33. | |
about... He's an outstanding character. He lives he knows | :59:34. | :59:37. | |
Birmingham very well and has lived if the years. And the web West | :59:38. | :59:38. | |
Midlands. Thank you very much. My thanks to Jess Phillips | :59:39. | :59:42. | |
and Philip Dunne. Finally from me, we keep | :59:43. | :59:44. | |
hearing about it, "Midlands Engine" this. | :59:45. | :59:46. | |
"Midlands Engine" that. Warwick and Leamington's | :59:47. | :59:48. | |
Conservative MP Chris White opens a debate on Tuesday, | :59:49. | :59:51. | |
arguing that regional devolution "can give the Midlands | :59:52. | :59:56. | |
the resources for businesses to compete internationally, | :59:57. | :59:58. | |
and deliver jobs and security have to do this. Thank you to you | :59:59. | :00:01. | |
both. What exactly is the government's | :00:02. | :00:12. | |
industrial strategy? Will ministers lose their supreme | :00:13. | :00:22. | |
court battle over Brexit, and, Well, tomorrow Theresa May | :00:23. | :00:26. | |
is launching the government's industrial strategy - | :00:27. | :00:38. | |
and to talk about that we're joined by the Business Minister, | :00:39. | :00:41. | |
Margot James - welcome to the show. When you look at what has already | :00:42. | :00:53. | |
been released in advance of the Prime Minister's statement, it was | :00:54. | :01:00. | |
embargoed for last night, it's not really an industrial strategy, it's | :01:01. | :01:04. | |
just another skills strategy, of which we have had about six since | :01:05. | :01:07. | |
the war, and our skills training is among the worst in Western Europe? | :01:08. | :01:15. | |
There will be plenty more to be announced tomorrow in what is really | :01:16. | :01:20. | |
a discussion document in the preparation of an industrial | :01:21. | :01:23. | |
strategy which we intend to launch properly later in the year. Let's | :01:24. | :01:30. | |
look at skills. You are allocating 117 of funding to establish | :01:31. | :01:38. | |
institutes of technology. How many? The exact number is to be agreed, | :01:39. | :01:42. | |
but the spend is there, and it will be on top of what we are doing to | :01:43. | :01:47. | |
the university, technical colleges... How many were lit bio | :01:48. | :01:51. | |
create? We don't know exactly, but we want to put them in areas where | :01:52. | :01:57. | |
young people are performing under the national average. But if you | :01:58. | :02:04. | |
don't know how many, what is the basis of 170 million? That is the | :02:05. | :02:08. | |
amount the Treasury have released. The something that is very | :02:09. | :02:11. | |
important, we are agreed we need to devote more resources to vocational | :02:12. | :02:17. | |
training and get it on a par with academic qualifications. I looked on | :02:18. | :02:24. | |
the website of my old university, the University of Glasgow, the | :02:25. | :02:28. | |
Russell group universities. Its spending budget every year is over | :02:29. | :02:34. | |
600 million. That's one University. And yet you have a mere 170 million | :02:35. | :02:41. | |
foreign unspecified number of institutes of technology. It hasn't | :02:42. | :02:47. | |
got equality with the academics? You have to remember that just as you | :02:48. | :02:53. | |
have quoted figures from Glasgow University there are further | :02:54. | :02:55. | |
education colleges all over the country. The government is already | :02:56. | :03:03. | |
spending on 16 to 19-year-olds. But also, we are going to be adding... | :03:04. | :03:10. | |
This is new money that is all to the good, because we are already | :03:11. | :03:16. | |
spending a lot. We have already created 2 million more apprentices | :03:17. | :03:19. | |
since 2010. That many are not in what we would call the stem skills, | :03:20. | :03:24. | |
and a lot come nowhere near what the Dutch, Germans and Austrians would | :03:25. | :03:30. | |
have. I'm not clear how another 170 million would do. You said it is | :03:31. | :03:35. | |
more than skills. In what way is this industrial strategy different | :03:36. | :03:39. | |
from what Mr Cameron and Mr Osborne did before? It's different because | :03:40. | :03:49. | |
it is involving every single government department, and bringing | :03:50. | :03:51. | |
together everything that government does in a bid to make Britain more | :03:52. | :03:54. | |
competitive as it disengages from the European Union. That is what the | :03:55. | :04:01. | |
last Labour government did. They will much more targeted | :04:02. | :04:04. | |
interventions. Under the Labour government, the auto industry got | :04:05. | :04:09. | |
some benefit. A few more sectors were broached under the coalition | :04:10. | :04:14. | |
government. This is all about communities all over the country, | :04:15. | :04:18. | |
some of whom have fallen behind in terms of wage growth and good jobs. | :04:19. | :04:24. | |
The Prime Minister has already announced 2 billion as a research | :04:25. | :04:31. | |
and development priority in specific technologies, robotics, artificial | :04:32. | :04:33. | |
intelligence, medical technology, satellites... So you are doing what | :04:34. | :04:40. | |
has been done before. There is nothing new about this. Wait until | :04:41. | :04:45. | |
tomorrow, because there will be some new strands emerging. It is the | :04:46. | :04:49. | |
beginning of the dialogue with industry and with workers, and the | :04:50. | :04:54. | |
responses will be invited up until April. That will inform a wider | :04:55. | :04:58. | |
strategy that goes beyond skills. I have moved on to beyond them. I'm | :04:59. | :05:05. | |
slightly puzzled as to how the government knows where to invest in | :05:06. | :05:10. | |
robotics, when it can't even provide the NHS with a decent IT system. | :05:11. | :05:16. | |
Discuss. I have to say I find it bizarre that the government is | :05:17. | :05:19. | |
making an announcement about an amount of money and don't know where | :05:20. | :05:24. | |
it's going. This is typical of all governments over all political | :05:25. | :05:30. | |
shoes, which is total disregard for technical education, so different | :05:31. | :05:35. | |
from Germany, who actually invest in the technological side. Germany has | :05:36. | :05:42. | |
a long history. We want to emulate some of the best of what German | :05:43. | :05:49. | |
companies do. Siemens sponsor primary schools, for example. We | :05:50. | :05:53. | |
want to get a dialogue on with business. We don't want to decide | :05:54. | :05:59. | |
where this money is going. By the way, it was 4.7 billion that the | :06:00. | :06:05. | |
government has agreed to invest in science and research, which is the | :06:06. | :06:09. | |
most significant increase in decades. Can you remind us what | :06:10. | :06:13. | |
happened in Northern Ireland, when the government invested money in | :06:14. | :06:16. | |
state-of-the-art technology for energy? No one needs to be reminded | :06:17. | :06:21. | |
of that, and that is not what we are doing. We are inviting business and | :06:22. | :06:29. | |
industry to advise where that money is best spent. That's very different | :06:30. | :06:35. | |
from government deciding that a particular technology is for the | :06:36. | :06:38. | |
future. The government's chief scientific adviser has determined | :06:39. | :06:45. | |
that we will invest a huge amount in battery technology, which should | :06:46. | :06:50. | |
benefit the electric car industry, and... This is taxpayers' money. Who | :06:51. | :06:57. | |
gets it? Ultimately, business will get it, but often only when there is | :06:58. | :07:01. | |
a considerable amount of private sector finance also drawn in. But | :07:02. | :07:11. | |
who is held to account? Various government departments at local | :07:12. | :07:15. | |
authorities will hold this list to account. A lot of it is about | :07:16. | :07:20. | |
releasing private capital as well. Thank you very much. This week, the | :07:21. | :07:26. | |
Supreme Court, I think we know the ruling is coming on Tuesday. And the | :07:27. | :07:33. | |
expectation is that the judges will say Parliament will have to vote to | :07:34. | :07:38. | |
trigger. Is this all much ado about nothing? Parliament will vote to | :07:39. | :07:42. | |
trigger, and the government will win in the Lords and the Commons by | :07:43. | :07:46. | |
substantial majorities, and it will be triggered? Completely. We've | :07:47. | :07:51. | |
known that. Parliament is voted. Everyone is pretty confident that | :07:52. | :07:55. | |
the Supreme Court will uphold the High Court's decision and say it has | :07:56. | :08:00. | |
to go to MPs. There will be a bit of toing and froing among MPs on | :08:01. | :08:08. | |
amendments. You heard Diane Abbott's slightly car crash interview there. | :08:09. | :08:13. | |
The Lib Dems may throw something in, but we will trigger Article 50 by | :08:14. | :08:21. | |
the end of March. If it also says that the roll of Edinburgh, Cardiff | :08:22. | :08:24. | |
and Belfast should be picked up, that could complicate matters. | :08:25. | :08:29. | |
Absolutely. That could delay the planned triggering of Article 50 | :08:30. | :08:34. | |
before the end of March. Not what they say about the Westminster | :08:35. | :08:38. | |
Parliament, because it is clear that it was. I never understood the | :08:39. | :08:43. | |
furore about that original judgment, because every MP made it clear they | :08:44. | :08:48. | |
wouldn't block it. Even though Diane Abbott was evasive on several | :08:49. | :08:52. | |
fronts, she said they wouldn't block it. You are right, if they give a | :08:53. | :08:58. | |
vote, or give some authorisation for the Scottish Parliament and other | :08:59. | :09:03. | |
devolved assemblies, that might delay the whole sequence. That is | :09:04. | :09:06. | |
the only significant thing to watch out for. Watch out on Tuesday. Mrs | :09:07. | :09:13. | |
May goes to Washington. It will be another movie in the making! I would | :09:14. | :09:19. | |
suggest that she has a tricky line to follow. She has got to be seen to | :09:20. | :09:23. | |
be taking advantage of the fact that there is a very pro-British, | :09:24. | :09:28. | |
pro-Brexit president in the Oval Office, who I am told is prepared to | :09:29. | :09:33. | |
expend political capital on this. But on the other hand, to make sure | :09:34. | :09:38. | |
that she is not what we used to call Mr Blair, George Bush's poodle. It | :09:39. | :09:49. | |
is very difficult, and who would not want to be a fly on the wall in that | :09:50. | :09:53. | |
meeting! I can't think of anyone in the world who would despise Mr Trump | :09:54. | :09:58. | |
more than Mrs May, and for him, he dislikes any woman who does not look | :09:59. | :10:02. | |
like a supermodel, no disrespected Mrs May. Most of it is actually | :10:03. | :10:12. | |
anti-EU, and I think we should capitalise it. Let's get the Queen | :10:13. | :10:17. | |
to earn her money, roll out the red carpet, invite him to dinner, spend | :10:18. | :10:25. | |
the night, what ever we need... Trump at Balmoral! Here is the | :10:26. | :10:29. | |
issue, because the agenda is, as we heard from Ted Malloch earlier, that | :10:30. | :10:33. | |
this is not an administration that has much time for the EU, EU | :10:34. | :10:38. | |
integration or Germany. I think Germany will be the second biggest | :10:39. | :10:43. | |
loser to begin with. They will not even give a date for Angela Merkel | :10:44. | :10:48. | |
to meet the president. This is an opportunity for Mrs May... It is a | :10:49. | :10:56. | |
huge. It could sideline talks of the punishment beating from Germany. The | :10:57. | :11:05. | |
Trump presidency has completely changed the field on Brexit. Along | :11:06. | :11:11. | |
came Donald Trump, and Theresa May has this incredible opportunity | :11:12. | :11:15. | |
here. Not of her making, but she has played her cards well. To an | :11:16. | :11:20. | |
officially be the EU emissary to Washington, to get some sort of | :11:21. | :11:26. | |
broker going. That gives us huge extra leveraged in the Brexit | :11:27. | :11:30. | |
negotiations. People around the world think Germany as a currency | :11:31. | :11:35. | |
manipulator, that it is benefiting from an underpriced euro, hence the | :11:36. | :11:39. | |
huge surplus it runs of America, and they think it is disgraceful that a | :11:40. | :11:43. | |
country that runs a massive budget surplus spends only 1.2% of its GDP | :11:44. | :11:49. | |
on defence, and America runs a massive deficit and needs to spend a | :11:50. | :11:55. | |
lot more. He's going for Germany. And what a massive shift. I think | :11:56. | :12:01. | |
Obama was quite open, in a farewell interview, that he felt closer to | :12:02. | :12:05. | |
Merkel than any other European leader. And Jamie kind of reflected | :12:06. | :12:12. | |
that in our discussion. Yes, that's very interesting discussion. I think | :12:13. | :12:17. | |
she was the last person he spoke to in the White House, Obama. And now | :12:18. | :12:22. | |
you are getting the onslaught from Trump. This Thatcher- Reagan imagery | :12:23. | :12:28. | |
is dangerous, though. Blair was hypnotised by it and was too scared | :12:29. | :12:33. | |
to criticise Bush, because he wanted to be seen in that light, and we | :12:34. | :12:38. | |
know where that led. Cameron similarly with Obama, which | :12:39. | :12:42. | |
presented him with problems, as Obama didn't regard him as his | :12:43. | :12:48. | |
number one pin up in Europe. I would put a note of caution in there about | :12:49. | :12:53. | |
the Thatcher - Reagan parallel. Everything Trump is doing now is | :12:54. | :12:59. | |
different from before, so Mrs May should not have any of these | :13:00. | :13:03. | |
previous relationships in her mind. That is not entirely true. Donald | :13:04. | :13:08. | |
Trump aches to be the new Ronald Reagan. He may be impeached first! | :13:09. | :13:16. | |
He sees her as the new Margaret Thatcher, and that may her leveraged | :13:17. | :13:18. | |
with him. Thank you. We'll be back here at the same time | :13:19. | :13:26. | |
next week, and you can catch up on all the latest political news | :13:27. | :13:31. | |
on the Daily Politics, In the meantime, remember - | :13:32. | :13:33. | |
if it's Sunday, It's just pain, | :13:34. | :13:36. | |
but it doesn't feel like pain, it feels much more violent, | :13:37. | :14:15. | |
dark and exciting. | :14:16. | :14:19. |