29/01/2017 Sunday Politics West Midlands


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29/01/2017

Andrew Neil and Patrick Burns are joined by Nigel Farage, MEP. The Political Panel consists of Janan Ganesh, Julia Hartley-Brewer and Steve Richards.


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Donald Trump's travel ban on refugees and citizens of seven

:01:09.:01:13.

The hard realities of hard Brexit. protests at several US airports.

:01:14.:01:19.

Farmers fear it could see them out of business if subsidies are no

:01:20.:01:22.

All the ins and outs in half-an-hour.

:01:23.:01:26.

Should she have spoken out more strongly?

:01:27.:01:27.

We'll ask former Ukip leader and Trump confidant Nigel Farage

:01:28.:01:30.

what he makes of the travel ban and the Prime Minister's

:01:31.:01:32.

In London this week, the mayor, Sadiq Khan,

:01:33.:01:35.

has been coming under pressure to explain his fares freeze

:01:36.:01:38.

and why it doesn't apply to everybody.

:01:39.:01:39.

And with me, the best and brightest political

:01:40.:01:41.

panel in the business - Steve Richards, Julia

:01:42.:01:43.

They'll be tweeting throughout the programme.

:01:44.:01:45.

It was soon after Theresa May left the White House on Friday that

:01:46.:01:49.

Donald Trump signed the executive order banning citizens from seven

:01:50.:01:51.

President Trump's 90-day ban covers Iran, Iraq,

:01:52.:01:57.

Libya, Somalia, Sudan, Yemen and Syria, from

:01:58.:02:01.

where refugees are banned from until further notice.

:02:02.:02:05.

Donald Trump's executive order also imposes a complete ban

:02:06.:02:07.

on all refugees coming to the US for the next 120 days.

:02:08.:02:13.

Mr Trump said that the ban would keep radical Islamic terrorists out

:02:14.:02:17.

But the ban has sparked protests across the US,

:02:18.:02:25.

as people affected and already in the air were detained

:02:26.:02:28.

US laws have begun legal action to challenge the ban, which many

:02:29.:02:31.

At a press conference in Ankara, Turkey, Theresa May was asked

:02:32.:02:37.

about the refugee ban three times before giving this response...

:02:38.:02:42.

Well, the United States is responsible for the United States'

:02:43.:02:44.

The United Kingdom is responsible for the United Kingdom's policy

:02:45.:02:50.

on refugees, and our policy on refugees is to have a number

:02:51.:02:53.

of voluntary schemes to bring Syrian refugees into the country.

:02:54.:02:56.

Downing Street later issued a statement saying:

:02:57.:03:11.

This morning, the Treasury Minister, David Gauke, was asked why

:03:12.:03:13.

Theresa May had refused to condemn the travel ban at yesterday's

:03:14.:03:16.

The Prime Minister is not a shoot-from-the-hip

:03:17.:03:22.

She wants to see the evidence, she wants

:03:23.:03:26.

to understand precisely what the implications are.

:03:27.:03:31.

She'd been in a series of very lengthy meetings with

:03:32.:03:33.

President Erdogan, and she's someone who wants to see the briefing and

:03:34.:03:37.

understand it, and then will respond to that.

:03:38.:03:41.

I think there are times where, you know, there's always

:03:42.:03:43.

pressure to respond within a news cycle and so on.

:03:44.:03:46.

The important thing is, we are saying we disagree with it

:03:47.:03:49.

We're joined now from North London by the Conservative

:03:50.:03:53.

Should the Government in general and Theresa May in particular be more

:03:54.:04:05.

vocal in their criticism of Donald Trump's travel bans? Well, as David

:04:06.:04:13.

just said, it is obviously right that Theresa has now said this is an

:04:14.:04:17.

appropriate and not something we agree with in our Government, but I

:04:18.:04:21.

wish she had said something at the time, not least because it affects

:04:22.:04:28.

our own citizens. One of our own MPs, Nadhim, for example, because it

:04:29.:04:32.

is also a global crisis. She had clearly built an excellent with

:04:33.:04:39.

Donald Trump -- she had built an excellent relationship with him, but

:04:40.:04:42.

she could have been firmer. Mrs May hasn't said any word of criticism

:04:43.:04:47.

about the travel bans. She refused to say anything three times in

:04:48.:04:52.

Ankara, and it is merely an anonymous Downing Street

:04:53.:04:55.

spokesperson that has issued the subsequent mild criticism. We have

:04:56.:04:58.

not heard from the Prime Minister at all on this matter in terms of

:04:59.:05:03.

criticism. No, but the spokesperson will be speaking with her blessing,

:05:04.:05:07.

so it is clearly something she has acknowledged. As I said before, I

:05:08.:05:11.

wish she had said something at the time. The global climate at the

:05:12.:05:15.

moment is delicate and we need our leaders to work together to address

:05:16.:05:20.

things like the refugee crisis. Potentially, this plays into the

:05:21.:05:24.

hands of Daesh. It is absolutely not the right message. What would you

:05:25.:05:31.

like the Prime Minister to say? As with any new relationship, it is

:05:32.:05:35.

about testing the boundaries. They had clearly got on well, so she

:05:36.:05:38.

should have felt braver to say something there and then. I would

:05:39.:05:41.

have preferred her to say, for example, I need to talk to Donald

:05:42.:05:44.

Trump about this. It is not something I support and I want to

:05:45.:05:47.

understand why because I believe there is a better way to deal with

:05:48.:05:52.

the terrorist threat. I would have liked her to suggest that she would

:05:53.:05:56.

engage with him to do that. The president has instituted a 90 day

:05:57.:06:00.

temporary ban on people coming from seven mainly Muslim majority

:06:01.:06:05.

population countries. The seven were on President Obama's list of the

:06:06.:06:11.

biggest terrorist threats to the United States. Mr Trump wants this

:06:12.:06:15.

temporary ban until he puts tougher vetting procedures in place. What is

:06:16.:06:21.

wrong with that? Because it appeared to me that it wasn't thought through

:06:22.:06:25.

and it was affecting ordinary citizens and some British citizens.

:06:26.:06:28.

It can't be right that a president in that position of power can

:06:29.:06:33.

arbitrarily come up with executive powers like that. It has already

:06:34.:06:38.

been challenged by his own courts. So it is not the considered approach

:06:39.:06:43.

I want to see in a global leader. Who do you believe will be hurt by

:06:44.:06:47.

this, given that there can be exceptions on a case-by-case basis?

:06:48.:07:00.

I think potentially, our global reputation is going to be hurt by

:07:01.:07:06.

this. I have been to the refugee camps in Europe myself. There are

:07:07.:07:10.

desperate people trying to free persecution who will be hurt by

:07:11.:07:13.

this. We are trying to heal the wounds in this country not only

:07:14.:07:17.

because of Brexit. This is a time of coming together, not about saying it

:07:18.:07:20.

is located discriminatory against race and religion in this way. Do

:07:21.:07:25.

you believe that Mr Trump's state visit should go ahead? Well, he is

:07:26.:07:31.

the leader of America, so it does need to go ahead and we need to work

:07:32.:07:34.

with him. I believe Theresa has started in a positive manner was

:07:35.:07:39.

that she just needs to continue in that vein. If he comes to our

:07:40.:07:41.

country, he needs to respect the way we feel about things. But yes, he is

:07:42.:07:47.

the president, so he does need to come to the UK. There is some debate

:07:48.:07:51.

within Westminster as to where it is appropriate for him to speak to MPs,

:07:52.:07:56.

but it is right that he comes. But if he does come on a state visit,

:07:57.:08:00.

should he be granted what this country has always thought of as a

:08:01.:08:03.

great honour, which is a joint address to both Houses of

:08:04.:08:09.

Parliament? I haven't been an MP long enough to understand the

:08:10.:08:12.

protocol of where is the right location for him to do that, but I

:08:13.:08:16.

believe in the past, it has been the greatest leaders, when they have

:08:17.:08:22.

achieved great things globally, it is Westminster Hall. But there are a

:08:23.:08:26.

number of MPs saying that is not the most appropriate place and I am

:08:27.:08:29.

inclined to agree. You don't think he should be accorded the privilege

:08:30.:08:32.

of speaking to a joint session of Parliament? I think there are places

:08:33.:08:38.

where he can do that, but Westminster Hall is not yet the

:08:39.:08:41.

right place. Thank you for joining us.

:08:42.:08:51.

Steve, within 24 hours, we have seen the difficulty of becoming Donald

:08:52.:08:58.

Trump's best friend. On the one hand, it could have huge advantages,

:08:59.:09:02.

particularly for a Brexit Britain. On the other hand, if you are going

:09:03.:09:06.

to be his best friend, you don't have to give a running commentary on

:09:07.:09:12.

every major thing he does. Yeah. We have learned a bit about Theresa

:09:13.:09:17.

May, that when she has to produce a set piece speech which she has time

:09:18.:09:22.

to prepare, she can get it totally right and sometimes more than right.

:09:23.:09:27.

When she is faced with a fast-moving story, she is leaden footed and

:09:28.:09:36.

can't think quickly on her feet. We know, did she regret not saying

:09:37.:09:40.

more? Evidently she did, because we got a statement from the Downing

:09:41.:09:44.

Street spokesperson saying more. So she can't think quickly. She's going

:09:45.:09:48.

to have to think very quickly in response to some of the things he's

:09:49.:09:50.

going to be doing, because she will be asked about it all the time. It

:09:51.:09:56.

does highlight the wider danger that the assumption that the special

:09:57.:10:01.

relationship is always a safe and fertile place to be has been proven

:10:02.:10:04.

wrong before and I think it will be proven wrong big-time in this case.

:10:05.:10:10.

You're shaking your head. I don't see why we are responsible for

:10:11.:10:14.

American domestic policy. I am as appalled as the next person by what

:10:15.:10:18.

Donald Trump has done. He said he was going to do this, which was why

:10:19.:10:24.

I did not want Americans to vote for him. In fact, what he has

:10:25.:10:27.

implemented is much less than what he said he would do when he was

:10:28.:10:32.

campaigning. I have always felt that the campaigning Trump was the real

:10:33.:10:38.

Trump. But what he has done is actually constitutional. He has the

:10:39.:10:41.

executive power to issue this order. It is within the rules in terms of a

:10:42.:10:46.

class of aliens deemed to be a risk to the United States. It is a 90 day

:10:47.:10:51.

limited ban. The last president who did this was a Democrat president,

:10:52.:10:57.

President Carter. He did it in the aftermath of the Iranian crisis.

:10:58.:11:01.

Well, given the spate of terror attacks on American territory in

:11:02.:11:04.

recent years, you could argue that he meant well. I don't agree with

:11:05.:11:12.

Donald Trump. But have people from these countries that he has banned

:11:13.:11:16.

been involved in terrorist attacks? That is the absurdity. He has not

:11:17.:11:21.

included Egypt or Pakistan. But I don't remove everyone getting in

:11:22.:11:25.

such a state about President Carter. The reality is that it is a legal

:11:26.:11:28.

thing for him to do. I don't like it. But it is not my territory. It

:11:29.:11:38.

is illegal, because they have been given a right to remain by a judge

:11:39.:11:43.

in Brooklyn and another judging Alexandra. That is a different issue

:11:44.:11:47.

for people who have already gone through the vetting. I don't agree

:11:48.:11:53.

with this. However, I don't think it's reasonable to say that Theresa

:11:54.:11:57.

May, because she wants to do a deal with Donald Trump, I don't give is

:11:58.:12:03.

reasonable to say she have to agree with each of his policies. It is

:12:04.:12:08.

nonsense. But the issue, Janan, is not whether she needs to agree with

:12:09.:12:13.

him. The question is that she will be questioned about him all the time

:12:14.:12:18.

now. And although these are matters of domestic policy, the refugee

:12:19.:12:22.

policy is international. They speak to issues that affect Britain as

:12:23.:12:28.

well, and I would suggest that she will not get away with this

:12:29.:12:32.

anonymous statement from Downing Street. People will demand a she

:12:33.:12:37.

says something on the record. She would get away with it indefinitely.

:12:38.:12:40.

These situations will recur every time Donald Trump says or does

:12:41.:12:45.

something contentious. She will be pressed to this associate her

:12:46.:12:49.

administration from his. She will probably be in a better logistical

:12:50.:12:54.

situation to do so. She has spent a big chunk of the past 72 hours in

:12:55.:12:58.

the air. She flew from Washington to Ankara, than from Ankara to London.

:12:59.:13:03.

We don't have Air Force One, we don't have those frictionless

:13:04.:13:05.

communications with the ground. She would have been incommunicado for

:13:06.:13:10.

large periods of time when this story was breaking. That doesn't

:13:11.:13:14.

excuse the stiff response when she landed and issued a statement via

:13:15.:13:18.

Downing Street. But during that delay, she did have a plausible

:13:19.:13:22.

excuse. She has also got a much more tricky geopolitical situation than

:13:23.:13:26.

many other world leaders. She has to strike a favourable trade deal with

:13:27.:13:31.

the new US president. It is all very well people saying Justin Trudeau of

:13:32.:13:34.

Canada was much more vociferous in his criticism of Donald Trump. He is

:13:35.:13:38.

already in Nafta, he is not striking a new deal. For how long, we don't

:13:39.:13:44.

know. Exactly, he's trying to stay in Nafta, but he is in a less tricky

:13:45.:13:46.

situation than she is. Now, Theresa May's was the first

:13:47.:13:50.

foreign leader to meet President Trump and the visit

:13:51.:13:53.

was seen as quite a coup for the Prime Minister,

:13:54.:13:55.

keen for a new trading relationship with the United States

:13:56.:13:58.

in the wake of Brexit. The Prime Minister congratulated

:13:59.:14:00.

the new US President for his "stunning election victory"

:14:01.:14:02.

but might not have intended to be pictured walking

:14:03.:14:04.

through the White House with him That picture of Donald Trump helping

:14:05.:14:07.

Theresa May down the steps through the White House colonnade

:14:08.:14:11.

will be the enduring image Mrs May said the President

:14:12.:14:14.

told her he was "100% behind Nato". And for her part, the Prime Minister

:14:15.:14:22.

said she would work hard to make sure other Nato countries

:14:23.:14:25.

increased their defence spending It's been announced

:14:26.:14:29.

that there will be a new trade negotiation agreement,

:14:30.:14:35.

with high-level talks The hope is that this will lead

:14:36.:14:36.

to a new trade deal between the two countries as soon as

:14:37.:14:42.

Britain leaves the EU. Mr Trump said he believed "Brexit's

:14:43.:14:46.

going to be a wonderful thing". On Russia, Theresa May made clear

:14:47.:14:49.

to Donald Trump her continued

:14:50.:14:52.

backing for sanctions. And following the controversy over

:14:53.:14:57.

the President's support for torture, Mr Trump said he would defer

:14:58.:15:00.

to his Secretary of Defense, General James Mattis, who argues

:15:01.:15:02.

that the practice doesn't work. And I'm joined now by the former

:15:03.:15:06.

Ukip leader, Nigel Farage. Do you agree with Mr Trump's

:15:07.:15:22.

decision to ban Syrian refugees indefinitely from entering the

:15:23.:15:26.

United States? I agree with the concept of democracy, a point which

:15:27.:15:30.

appears to be missed by almost all commentators including the BBC. He

:15:31.:15:35.

was elected to get tough and say he would do everything in his power to

:15:36.:15:38.

protect America from infiltration by ISIS terrorists. There are seven

:15:39.:15:46.

countries on that list. He's entitled to do this. I didn't ask if

:15:47.:15:52.

he was entitled, I asked if agree with it. I do, because if you just

:15:53.:15:58.

look at what's happening in France and Germany, if you look at Angela

:15:59.:16:02.

Merkel's policy which was to allow virtually anyone in from anywhere,

:16:03.:16:08.

look what it led to. You said in 2013 there's a responsibility on all

:16:09.:16:11.

of us in the free west to help some of those people fleeing Syria

:16:12.:16:17.

literally in fear of their lives. That's the Christian community in

:16:18.:16:21.

virtually all of those country, it is almost too late because many have

:16:22.:16:25.

been wiped out but if you are looking for a genuine definition of

:16:26.:16:30.

a refugee, going back to 1951, it is someone in direct fear of

:16:31.:16:35.

persecution of their life because of their race, religion or beliefs. But

:16:36.:16:39.

you didn't talk about only Christians, and in January 2014 you

:16:40.:16:43.

said, I seem to recall it was Ukip who started the debate on allowing

:16:44.:16:47.

Syrian refugees, you seem to be in favour of allowing proper refugees

:16:48.:16:54.

into this country. If they can be defined. Mr Trump won't let any in.

:16:55.:17:02.

He is running American policy, not British policy. Since I made those

:17:03.:17:06.

comments, we have had the Angela Merkel madness and I think Trump's

:17:07.:17:11.

policy in many ways has been shaped by what Angela Merkel did. He is

:17:12.:17:16.

fully entitled to do this, and as far as we are concerned in this

:17:17.:17:19.

country, I would like to see extreme vetting. Since 9/11 can you name any

:17:20.:17:28.

terrorist event in the United States that has involved refugees that have

:17:29.:17:33.

been allowed into the country? No, in fact the terrorist events have

:17:34.:17:38.

been US citizens radicalised. When you have a problem already, why

:17:39.:17:43.

would you wish to add to it? I would remind you that of the eight people

:17:44.:17:46.

that committed those atrocities in Paris, five of them had got into

:17:47.:17:50.

Europe posing as refugees so there is an issue here. But perhaps not

:17:51.:17:56.

for America because it has the most rigorous and lengthy screening

:17:57.:17:59.

process in the world, especially for Syrians. You have to register with

:18:00.:18:04.

the UN agency for refugees, which then recommend certain names to

:18:05.:18:09.

America, they then go through biometric screening, database

:18:10.:18:12.

screening, intelligent screenings, including four separate intelligence

:18:13.:18:23.

agencies screening you. How more rigorous would you want it to be? It

:18:24.:18:31.

is much more rigorous than we are or the rest of Europe. This is why we

:18:32.:18:35.

have elections, so voters can make choices and they voted for Donald

:18:36.:18:37.

Trump to become president and he said he would put bans in place and

:18:38.:18:44.

then move towards extreme vetting. As far as the Syrians are concerned

:18:45.:18:47.

he's made that decision but that's what he was voted in fourth. Since

:18:48.:18:54.

you know him, you have met him, you are confident of his, I'm testing

:18:55.:18:59.

you on the logic of it. Not that he's democratically elected, I'm not

:19:00.:19:03.

asking about that, I'm trying to get the case, particularly since if you

:19:04.:19:06.

take the seven countries of which the ban applies for 19 days, again,

:19:07.:19:13.

of these seven countries, its citizens have not been involved in

:19:14.:19:16.

terrorist attacks in the United States. It would be a mistake to say

:19:17.:19:20.

it is just Muslim countries because the biggest Muslim countries in the

:19:21.:19:23.

world have not been included in this. The point is they have made

:19:24.:19:27.

this assessment, they bought themselves 90 days to think about

:19:28.:19:32.

the policy. This is exactly what Trump's voters would have wanted him

:19:33.:19:39.

to do. You said the President's rhetoric on immigrants made even you

:19:40.:19:43.

feel very uncomfortable. Because he started by saying there was a total

:19:44.:19:47.

ban, then amended it to say there would be vetting. My guess is that

:19:48.:19:52.

what he will do is try to genuinely help Syrian people and he will be

:19:53.:19:56.

talking about the creation of some safe zones. Let's see. He hasn't. We

:19:57.:20:04.

will see. I suspect something like that is coming down the trap. What

:20:05.:20:09.

advice did you give to the president and his advisers ahead of Theresa

:20:10.:20:16.

May's visit? That I wanted us to talk about trade and to give the

:20:17.:20:19.

Prime Minister the impression that actually... When she has been

:20:20.:20:23.

surrounded by her whole career by civil servants and politicians who

:20:24.:20:29.

say that everything takes five years or seven years or ten years, to make

:20:30.:20:32.

it clear to the Prime Minister that if there is will, these things can

:20:33.:20:36.

be done quickly. Isn't there a danger of a British Prime Minister

:20:37.:20:40.

who has to deal with the president of the United States, to Ally

:20:41.:20:46.

herself so closely with such an unpredictable, controversial

:20:47.:20:51.

president, banning Muslims in certain ways and refugees, building

:20:52.:20:56.

a war with Mexico, threatening trade was with other countries, thinking

:20:57.:21:00.

of ending sanctions against Russia? I missing something here, what is

:21:01.:21:05.

controversial about defending the Mexican border? Bill Clinton spoke

:21:06.:21:10.

in tough terms, George Bush built six miles of fence, and because it

:21:11.:21:14.

is Donald Trump there is uproar. So you think there is no risk of the

:21:15.:21:18.

British by Minister being the best friend of this type of president? I

:21:19.:21:22.

think there is no risk in putting together a trade deal and no risk in

:21:23.:21:26.

her being the bridge between America and the rest of Nato to say to Nato

:21:27.:21:30.

members if you don't pay your 2% he is serious so on those things there

:21:31.:21:36.

is no risk at all. It was clear from her Lancaster house speech that the

:21:37.:21:41.

Brexiteers in the Government had won pretty much every argument in terms

:21:42.:21:44.

of negotiations to come out. What you want from her? She was very good

:21:45.:21:52.

as Home Secretary, Tory party conferences, the Tory press saying

:21:53.:21:56.

this was the new Thatcher and she failed. She even failed to control

:21:57.:22:01.

immigration from outside the European Union so yes, it was a good

:22:02.:22:04.

speech and for many on the Eurosceptic side of the argument, I

:22:05.:22:09.

could scarcely believe that a British Prime Minister was saying

:22:10.:22:12.

things which I had been roundly abused and vilified for. But I have

:22:13.:22:19.

a feeling we may be in for a very frustrating 2017. The mood as I can

:22:20.:22:22.

see it in Brussels is that negotiating with Britain is not a

:22:23.:22:27.

priority, they are far more worried about Dutch elections, French

:22:28.:22:31.

elections, German elections and possibly even Italian elections. I

:22:32.:22:36.

worry that by the end of this year we may not have made much progress

:22:37.:22:39.

and that's why the Trump visit suddenly things brings into focus.

:22:40.:22:46.

What if by the middle of June, for argument 's sake, the Americans say

:22:47.:22:50.

OK we reached this position with the British, compromised on the tough

:22:51.:22:53.

stuff, food standards and things like that, we are ready to sign a

:22:54.:23:00.

deal now, and Theresa May is to say actually Mr Juncker says I cannot

:23:01.:23:04.

sign this until we leave. What will they do? They cannot throw us out,

:23:05.:23:09.

we are living anyway. But everybody agrees you can talk about the deal,

:23:10.:23:13.

maybe even do the heads of agreement but you cannot sign a treaty until

:23:14.:23:18.

we have left the EU. Let me predict that at the end of this year we will

:23:19.:23:22.

find a European Union who frankly don't want to talk to us and

:23:23.:23:26.

countries around the world that want to get on and do things and that

:23:27.:23:30.

will be the big tension for Mrs May over the course of this year. If the

:23:31.:23:35.

Prime Minister is giving you everything you want on Brexit, you

:23:36.:23:39.

agree that she's trying to get from your point of view the right things.

:23:40.:23:43.

If she delivers on that and get Brexit on the terms of which you

:23:44.:23:48.

approve, what's the point of Ukip? You could argue that about any

:23:49.:23:52.

political party. If we have achieved the goal that we set out to achieve,

:23:53.:23:58.

there are right now out there 4 million people who are Ukip

:23:59.:24:01.

loyalists. They are delighted that by voting Ukip we got a referendum,

:24:02.:24:07.

they will be even happier if they seek us leave the European Union and

:24:08.:24:11.

I think there is still a gap in British politics for a party that

:24:12.:24:15.

says it as it sees it, is not afraid by political correctness and is seen

:24:16.:24:18.

to be on the side of the little people, and that's why, with the

:24:19.:24:23.

Labour Party is fundamentally split, and it really is totally split over

:24:24.:24:28.

this European question, I think Ukip is in good shape. That proposition

:24:29.:24:33.

will be put to test at the Stoke Central by-election, one of Ukip's

:24:34.:24:38.

best prospects in the country. Some people call it the capital of

:24:39.:24:42.

Brexit. Labour is in chaos over Article 50, is picked a candidate to

:24:43.:24:48.

fight Stoke Central who has described Brexit is a pile of notes.

:24:49.:24:57.

If your successor, Paul Nuttall, cannot win the Stoke by-election,

:24:58.:25:01.

there's not much hope for you, is there? I think he will. I've always

:25:02.:25:05.

been told don't make predictions but I think he will win. If you doesn't

:25:06.:25:12.

it will be tough, we will still have our 4 million loyalists, but if it

:25:13.:25:17.

does we can actually see Labour are beatable in their heartlands and

:25:18.:25:21.

Ukip will be off to the second big stage. Nigel Farage, thank you for

:25:22.:25:23.

being with us. It's just gone 11.25,

:25:24.:25:25.

you're watching the Sunday Politics. We say goodbye to viewers

:25:26.:25:27.

in Scotland, who leave us now Coming up here in 15 minutes, I'll

:25:28.:25:29.

be talking to our political panel. Welcome to the Sunday

:25:30.:25:40.

politics in the Midlands. This week, the hard realities

:25:41.:25:43.

of a hard Brexit for our farmers. Fears for the future

:25:44.:25:47.

of their businesses if the subsidies they depend on are no longer

:25:48.:25:50.

guaranteed by the European Union. Emma Reynolds is the Labour MP

:25:51.:25:54.

for Wolverhampton North East and a former Shadow Minister

:25:55.:26:02.

for Europe and Nigel Huddlestone is the Conservative MP

:26:03.:26:06.

for mid-Worcestershire, which of course includes

:26:07.:26:09.

the Vale of Evesham. That Brexit Bill, all 133 words

:26:10.:26:11.

of it, is on the fast track with a white paper that

:26:12.:26:22.

could presumably be cut and pasted from Theresa May's

:26:23.:26:24.

keynote speech last week. And all because the Supreme Court

:26:25.:26:27.

ruled by a majority of eight to three that Parliament must

:26:28.:26:31.

have its say before she can That was a defeat for

:26:32.:26:34.

the government's top law officer. The Attorney General had

:26:35.:26:39.

done his best to persuade the judges that Mrs made good

:26:40.:26:41.

use her executive powers instead. the judges that Mrs May could use

:26:42.:26:49.

her executive powers instead. Of course the government

:26:50.:26:52.

is disappointed with the outcome but we have the good fortune to live

:26:53.:26:54.

in a country where everyone, every individual, every

:26:55.:26:57.

organisation, even government, So the government will comply

:26:58.:26:59.

with the judgment of the court and do all that is necessary

:27:00.:27:04.

to implement it. Well, it will be interesting to see

:27:05.:27:07.

how many Labour MPs obey Jeremy Corbyn's three line whip

:27:08.:27:14.

in support of the government's Brexit timetable when it comes

:27:15.:27:16.

to that vote in the Commons and Emma, you have always been

:27:17.:27:19.

a very enthusiastic European and are you going to vote for that

:27:20.:27:22.

Brexit schedule? I did campaign for remaining

:27:23.:27:25.

in the EU but I accept the result of the referendum and I will be

:27:26.:27:30.

voting for the Article 50 legislation to trigger

:27:31.:27:34.

the negotiations for us Are you one of the Labour MPs

:27:35.:27:39.

then who Tim Farron, the Liberal Democrat leader,

:27:40.:27:44.

has in mind when he says that Labour Well, I don't think it's cowardly

:27:45.:27:47.

to respect the will of the people. I went into this referendum

:27:48.:27:51.

and in every debate I did I said I would accept the result,

:27:52.:27:54.

whichever way it went. Democratically, I don't

:27:55.:27:57.

think Tim Farren has It does have the makings, this,

:27:58.:28:00.

of another leadership crisis We have to stand by the result

:28:01.:28:04.

of the referendum and the priority now is that MPs have a meaningful

:28:05.:28:10.

say in securing the best possible deal for the UK

:28:11.:28:13.

in these negotiations. Nigel, what would you say

:28:14.:28:18.

to Pat McFadden, one of Emma's Wolverhampton colleagues

:28:19.:28:22.

who knows a thing or two about Europe, too, and he says that

:28:23.:28:25.

reminding Theresa May that no deal is a better bet than a bad deal

:28:26.:28:30.

and he said that no deal option, the World Trade Organisation

:28:31.:28:34.

version, would be 10% tariffs on cars, import restrictions,

:28:35.:28:39.

customs delays and all I think it underlines how important

:28:40.:28:41.

it is that we do get a good deal and therefore the whole energy

:28:42.:28:46.

of the government is making sure But she's raising the possibility

:28:47.:28:49.

of a no deal option, which would turn us into some kind

:28:50.:28:54.

of a tiger economy I think that's a negotiation stance

:28:55.:28:57.

that is not surprising. I think lots of people make those

:28:58.:29:01.

kind of position statement early on. No, it's not meaningless

:29:02.:29:04.

but it is important to make it clear that we do have alternative options

:29:05.:29:08.

but it would be an extraordinary act of self harm for the EU not to come

:29:09.:29:11.

to a decent deal with us because they have got jobs

:29:12.:29:15.

and businesses that depend on trade with the UK as well,

:29:16.:29:17.

so we are confident Sean Simon, Labour's candidate

:29:18.:29:20.

for the Metro Mayor, whose launch event you chaired ten

:29:21.:29:23.

days or so ago says that the Midlands as a region should

:29:24.:29:27.

have a seat at those Is that really realistic given that

:29:28.:29:30.

Scotland and all the rest of the nations, but the Midlands

:29:31.:29:36.

is only a region? Well, many of our regions

:29:37.:29:38.

have a greater population than Scotland or Wales

:29:39.:29:41.

or Northern Ireland, so I think it's absolutely right

:29:42.:29:44.

that we in this regions should be so I think it's absolutely right

:29:45.:29:55.

that English regions should be consulted and should

:29:56.:29:57.

have a seat at the table. Well, we are because we are all MPs

:29:58.:29:59.

and we are all involved in the discussion so I'm not sure

:30:00.:30:04.

whether we need this additional regional representation

:30:05.:30:07.

because we are MPs representing our OK for the moment, thank

:30:08.:30:08.

you both very much indeed. Well, that's what one local farmer

:30:09.:30:12.

told me just before the referendum. "Because they'll burn the place

:30:13.:30:16.

down if anyone messes So, what happens when we leave

:30:17.:30:19.

the European Union Common Well, one Shropshire farmer

:30:20.:30:23.

told our political reporter Joanne Gallagher that it

:30:24.:30:26.

could see him out of business. Newborn lambs, a sign of fresh

:30:27.:30:31.

starts and new beginnings but for this farmer,

:30:32.:30:34.

the future's a worry. Malcolm Roberts exports his produce

:30:35.:30:37.

to France, Italy, Spain and Germany. In fact, 40% of UK

:30:38.:30:41.

lamb goes to Europe. He voted to Remain in

:30:42.:30:46.

the European Union and he's concerned Brexit could make things

:30:47.:30:49.

difficult down on the farm. Our business needs sound

:30:50.:30:54.

economic growth and you know at my time in life, probably,

:30:55.:30:58.

I hate to say it but, you know, if we are messing around

:30:59.:31:03.

with our business for the next 15 or 20 years, that's probably

:31:04.:31:07.

going to be my career done and I just felt we needed a strong

:31:08.:31:10.

economy and to keep going forward. The message from government

:31:11.:31:15.

is everything will be fine. I am determined that we secure

:31:16.:31:18.

a deal on leaving the EU that works for all parts of the UK

:31:19.:31:22.

and recognises the contribution that all corners of this country make

:31:23.:31:27.

to our economic success. But it is not just the export

:31:28.:31:31.

business that's a concern on this Farming accounts for around

:31:32.:31:34.

?1 billion worth of business in this On farms like these,

:31:35.:31:40.

farmers received around ?70 an acre in EU subsidies but with Brexit,

:31:41.:31:47.

that money is likely to go. Leave campaigner Owen Paterson

:31:48.:31:50.

is the MP for this area. He says farmers like Malcolm have

:31:51.:31:59.

nothing to fear from Brexit. They have a wonderful opportunity

:32:00.:32:03.

to help design a completely new rural policy tailored

:32:04.:32:08.

around their industry And that's multiple opportunities

:32:09.:32:11.

now to use significant funds of money, don't forget we will have

:32:12.:32:18.

more as we stop sending money to Brussels,

:32:19.:32:21.

we will have more to spend. We can target that money in a much

:32:22.:32:23.

more effective manner. Just 50 miles away in Staffordshire,

:32:24.:32:26.

the atmosphere on this 500 acre beef and arable farm

:32:27.:32:30.

is one of excitement. He wants to take back

:32:31.:32:33.

control and he has no I don't think we need to be

:32:34.:32:38.

in the club, as I used to call it. We are still in Europe,

:32:39.:32:44.

we still farming in Europe, I still think in the future

:32:45.:32:48.

we will be trading with Europe. There may be a stand-off for now,

:32:49.:32:52.

but it is inevitable there will be locking of horns as ministers

:32:53.:32:58.

try to get right the terms of Brexit And Joanne Gallagher

:32:59.:33:02.

tells me that is the correct way to handle a lamb,

:33:03.:33:10.

not so sure she's quite got the hang But Nigel, what would you say

:33:11.:33:13.

to those farmers who are worried about their subsidies and who do

:33:14.:33:19.

feel that the European Union, backed up by those militant French farmers,

:33:20.:33:23.

is a better guarantor of those subsidies than the vagaries

:33:24.:33:26.

of who knows how many future Well, the British government has

:33:27.:33:30.

been clear that up until 2020 the subsidies will be the same

:33:31.:33:38.

and of course it is very reasonable There will be a British

:33:39.:33:41.

agricultural policy as opposed to a Common Agricultural Policy

:33:42.:33:44.

after that and as Owen has said, the intention is to continue

:33:45.:33:47.

with subsidies in some way, shape or form as has happened

:33:48.:33:50.

across the other European countries We will continue and we have to work

:33:51.:33:53.

out exactly what the details of that will be over the next few years

:33:54.:34:08.

but it is incomprehensible that we would not continue with some

:34:09.:34:11.

form of subsidy because we need And that is the point, isn't it,

:34:12.:34:14.

such is the importance We had subsidies before we joined

:34:15.:34:18.

the then common market since 1957, that's how important

:34:19.:34:22.

it is to governments, I'm sure there will continue to be

:34:23.:34:23.

subsidies but there is no guarantee Every individual farmer gets

:34:24.:34:28.

a different level of subsidy depending on the size and efficiency

:34:29.:34:31.

of their farm, so I can understand why quite a lot of farmers

:34:32.:34:35.

are fearful of the uncertainty around exactly how much subsidy

:34:36.:34:37.

they are going to get in the future. Farmers like Ray Bower there think

:34:38.:34:40.

that leaving the EU could be an escape from red tape but we know

:34:41.:34:43.

that British governments can regulate like nothing on earth

:34:44.:34:46.

and you think about food hygiene, health and safety, land use,

:34:47.:34:51.

there's going to be a lot of regulation of the farming

:34:52.:34:55.

industry come what may, isn't there? There will continue to be some

:34:56.:34:58.

regulations but I have come across a lot of farmers

:34:59.:35:01.

like the gentleman who is very enthusiastic about leaving the EU

:35:02.:35:04.

precisely because of this red tape issue but to be fair,

:35:05.:35:07.

the NFU really agonised on the decision whether to Remain

:35:08.:35:11.

on Leave in terms of their official announcement and I think

:35:12.:35:14.

it was fairly representative what you've got there,

:35:15.:35:16.

it's still fairly split. What's the balance of opinion

:35:17.:35:18.

in your farming area because as I said, it does include

:35:19.:35:20.

some of the sort of prime farm Interestingly, the farmers

:35:21.:35:23.

I would say are predominantly Out but the farm production,

:35:24.:35:26.

food packaging and so on who are actually very,

:35:27.:35:29.

very strongly reliant on overseas labour, they were very strong

:35:30.:35:32.

advocates of remaining in the EU. Do you have some sympathy

:35:33.:35:37.

for what Owen Paterson said there that, you know,

:35:38.:35:40.

better that we have a British government legislating for British

:35:41.:35:42.

farmers with the interests of our environment, our industry

:35:43.:35:45.

at heart rather than something just As I said, there is no guarantee

:35:46.:35:49.

that farmers are going to get Some might get more but they are

:35:50.:36:01.

also worried about tariffs because if the Prime Minister

:36:02.:36:06.

and the government doesn't secure tariff free access,

:36:07.:36:08.

if we do have to fall back under WTO rules and tariffs, the average food

:36:09.:36:14.

tariff is around 12%. That could make our farming

:36:15.:36:17.

industry very uncompetitive because as you said in your film,

:36:18.:36:19.

40% of British lamb this other EU because as you said in your film,

:36:20.:36:23.

40% of British lamb goes to other EU countries and there will be similar

:36:24.:36:26.

figures for other foodstuff as well, foodstuff as well, so,

:36:27.:36:29.

you know, there are some real fears Again, it will depend what happens

:36:30.:36:32.

and it will depend what happens on tariffs coming into the UK

:36:33.:36:39.

as well and that remains to be seen. Food prices would worry

:36:40.:36:43.

people if they go up. Well they would, which is why

:36:44.:36:45.

we want to have a free trade deal if at all possible and we should

:36:46.:36:51.

be able to get that. We export ?7 billion of food

:36:52.:36:54.

and non-alcohol beverages but we import ?21 billion,

:36:55.:36:56.

so again it is in the European's best interest to get

:36:57.:36:59.

a good, food deal. best interest to get

:37:00.:37:02.

a good, fluid deal. Well, it's a shorter programme today

:37:03.:37:04.

but we do still have a full 60 seconds to spare for our round-up

:37:05.:37:11.

of the week's political highlights. The families of the victims

:37:12.:37:13.

of the Birmingham pub bombings have been told by the government they can

:37:14.:37:17.

now apply for legal aid ahead of the inquest into the deaths

:37:18.:37:21.

of the 21 who were killed. The Royal College of Surgeons has

:37:22.:37:24.

criticised plans to ration hip and knee replacement

:37:25.:37:27.

operations in Worcestershire. Clinical Commissioning Groups

:37:28.:37:29.

in Redditch and Bromsgrove, South Worcestershire and Wye Forest

:37:30.:37:32.

want to save money by cutting the number

:37:33.:37:34.

of procedures carried out. Children's services

:37:35.:37:37.

in Worcestershire have Ofsted criticised serious

:37:38.:37:39.

failures in the Department. On Monday, the writ

:37:40.:37:44.

was moved in the Commons Conservatives have named 25 year

:37:45.:37:48.

old City Councillor Jack Brereton as their candidate and Labour has

:37:49.:37:59.

elected former Newcastle-under-Lyme Council leader Gareth Snell to fight

:38:00.:38:01.

the seat vacated by Tristram Hunt. I'm very confident that Labour

:38:02.:38:04.

will win the election. We have got a plan, we know

:38:05.:38:06.

what we're going to do, we're going to be out talking

:38:07.:38:09.

to people and we're going to be putting forward the case

:38:10.:38:12.

that it is the Labour Party that Nominations for Stoke Central close

:38:13.:38:15.

on Tuesday and for more details about all the candidates so far

:38:16.:38:21.

declared, go to the BBC Your candidate Emma has got quite

:38:22.:38:25.

an interesting Twitter history because when Owen Smith

:38:26.:38:30.

was challenging for the leadership he supported him and Owen Smith

:38:31.:38:34.

was being targeted as a former Pfizer lobbyist and he said well,

:38:35.:38:37.

if that's fair game, it's OK to call Jeremy Corbyn an IRA

:38:38.:38:41.

supporting friend of Hamas. So it's all not it is at least

:38:42.:38:45.

weakness and light, is it? So it's all not it is not

:38:46.:38:56.

sweetness and light, is it? Well, Gareth is an

:38:57.:38:59.

excellent candidate. He has roots in the constituency,

:39:00.:39:01.

unlike some of the other candidates, He also has a relevant local

:39:02.:39:04.

political experience, used to be the leader of Newcastle

:39:05.:39:07.

Council. And he's no fan of your party leader

:39:08.:39:09.

either by the looks of it. He is already talking

:39:10.:39:12.

about his priorities for Stoke, which is protecting the potteries,

:39:13.:39:14.

making sure that we get the best possible Brexit deal for them

:39:15.:39:17.

and making sure we protect workers' rights at the same time,

:39:18.:39:20.

so he's focusing on local issues. This is a local by-election

:39:21.:39:22.

and I hope very much that Gareth Obviously Labour want this

:39:23.:39:25.

by-election to be NHS central and given your run of embarrassing,

:39:26.:39:29.

including the breaking news on Friday from your county

:39:30.:39:31.

about rationing of hip and knee replacement surgery,

:39:32.:39:34.

you're on the back foot on health every time you stand

:39:35.:39:36.

for an election, your party. Well, I don't think we're

:39:37.:39:39.

on the back that all the time. Well, I don't think we're

:39:40.:39:43.

on the back foot all the time. We are putting more money

:39:44.:39:46.

into health but obviously we have got to work on operations and make

:39:47.:39:49.

sure that we've run a very efficient health service as well,

:39:50.:39:52.

so we have got a good case to say that we are standing up for the NHS

:39:53.:39:55.

and I hope that continues. You should get behind Ukip, really,

:39:56.:39:58.

shouldn't you as the best chance Not at all, we fight

:39:59.:40:01.

by-elections to win them. On that happy note, we will see how

:40:02.:40:04.

that turns out as well. My thanks to Emma Reynolds

:40:05.:40:08.

and Nigel Huddlestone. Well, finally from me,

:40:09.:40:10.

are buses few and far between? On Tuesday, the Transport Secretary

:40:11.:40:13.

Chris Grayling will be steering his Local Bus Partnership Bill

:40:14.:40:16.

in the Commons. Also on Tuesday Solihull's

:40:17.:40:17.

Conservative MP Julian Knight opens a debate on measures for elderly

:40:18.:40:19.

and disabled bus passengers. There you are, two debates

:40:20.:40:22.

coming along at once. Welcome back and let's get back

:40:23.:40:30.

to Donald Trump's travel ban on refugees and citizens from seven

:40:31.:40:44.

mainly Muslim countries. Earlier, the Labour leader,

:40:45.:40:49.

Jeremy Corbyn, told ITV that a state visit by President Trump to the UK

:40:50.:40:52.

should not go ahead I think it would be totally wrong

:40:53.:41:05.

for him to be coming here while that situation is going on. He has to be

:41:06.:41:10.

challenged on this. So until the ban is lifted, you don't think he should

:41:11.:41:14.

come? I am not happy about him coming here until the ban is lifted.

:41:15.:41:18.

Look at what is happening with those countries. What will be the long

:41:19.:41:23.

term effect of this on the rest of the world? Is this state visit going

:41:24.:41:28.

to become a matter of huge political debate in this country? It would be

:41:29.:41:34.

anyway, but it is a temporary ban, so Jeremy Corbyn is on safe

:41:35.:41:38.

territory. It will be over by April and he is not due to come until

:41:39.:41:42.

summer. But there are three bands. There is the 90 day ban on people

:41:43.:41:47.

coming from the southern countries. There is the 120 day ban on refugees

:41:48.:41:51.

from anywhere in the world, and there is the indefinite ban on

:41:52.:41:55.

Syrian refugees. So there may still be some bans in place. But bear in

:41:56.:42:01.

mind the number of Syrian refugees and refugees from around the world

:42:02.:42:05.

that President Obama took over his eight years. There were years when

:42:06.:42:08.

it was not even up to 50 Syrian refugees that were taken since the

:42:09.:42:14.

civil war has started. This is an ongoing American policy. 12,500

:42:15.:42:19.

Syrian refugees have come in the last year. Before that, it was a

:42:20.:42:28.

hundred and sometimes under 50. But they are reasonable numbers now,

:42:29.:42:31.

although not something America couldn't absorb. Donald Trump is

:42:32.:42:38.

discovering that being a president is different from being a business

:42:39.:42:41.

man. And Jeremy Corbyn has to learn the art of leadership, having been a

:42:42.:42:45.

backbench MP, and has struggled to do it, as we are about to discuss

:42:46.:42:50.

with article 50. With this, you have to dramatise the politics of this,

:42:51.:42:54.

and this is what he has done with that statement. Most controversial

:42:55.:42:58.

ever state visit now? I would imagine so. Even regardless of any

:42:59.:43:03.

opposition from the opposition to trump's physical presence in the

:43:04.:43:09.

streets, the presence of demonstrators will be an

:43:10.:43:13.

international new story. If trump's demands for the details of the visit

:43:14.:43:17.

are quite as extreme and as picky as some of the Sunday papers have

:43:18.:43:20.

suggested, that could also be the source of controversy. What do you

:43:21.:43:24.

have in mind? Isn't he anxious that only certain members of the Royal

:43:25.:43:30.

Family turn up? He doesn't want a one-on-one with Prince Charles. Who

:43:31.:43:35.

would, though! Some people may be sympathetic on that. It is the one

:43:36.:43:42.

subject where he is in line with British opinion. Playing golf in

:43:43.:43:46.

front of the Queen may be a higher priority. We have to be realistic.

:43:47.:43:50.

Given the other people from around the world that the Queen has played

:43:51.:43:53.

host to, like the Chinese president and Saudi kings and the like, we

:43:54.:43:57.

have had a lot worse come to visit than Donald Trump. Brexit - how

:43:58.:44:03.

serious our neighbour's problems on this? Very serious, but they often

:44:04.:44:07.

are with Europe. Labour were splits when we joined in the 70s, and still

:44:08.:44:14.

won general elections, in 1974 and 1975. There were all over the place

:44:15.:44:17.

in terms of the single currency. Blair said one thing one day and the

:44:18.:44:21.

opposite the next day. Brown did the same.

:44:22.:44:27.

Brown usually set the opposite of what Blair said! They won landslide

:44:28.:44:36.

because they have the political skills to put all of the pressure on

:44:37.:44:40.

the major government, even though their position on the single

:44:41.:44:44.

currency was the same as major's. It is about with Europe the art of

:44:45.:44:49.

leadership. You have to be a political conjuror, you have to

:44:50.:44:53.

dissemble authoritative leak when you lead a divided party over

:44:54.:44:57.

Europe, and Jeremy Corbyn to his personal credit cannot dissemble,

:44:58.:45:01.

but he's not an individual person on this. He's leading a split party in

:45:02.:45:06.

danger of falling apart, and you need the skills of a political

:45:07.:45:12.

conjurer. Clearly self-evidently he's not displaying it because we

:45:13.:45:15.

are talking about the chaotic split which will manifest itself in that

:45:16.:45:20.

vote on Article 50. Labour and the SNP and the Lib Dems too I would

:45:21.:45:24.

have thought will all put amendments down to the short Article 50 piece

:45:25.:45:28.

of legislation. Do they have any chance of succeeding? No substantial

:45:29.:45:35.

world is changing amendments. I don't think Theresa May has much to

:45:36.:45:39.

worry about actually. I think if anything the reason she's pushed the

:45:40.:45:43.

legal appeal is that it helps her to have a big chunk of the media and a

:45:44.:45:48.

big chunk of public opinion worrying that the popular will of last year

:45:49.:45:53.

is in danger of being overturned and so even if it was a completely

:45:54.:45:56.

hopeless legal appeal, it generated headlines for a week that as an

:45:57.:46:01.

incumbent Prime Minister trying to execute believe vote suits you

:46:02.:46:05.

politically. I think it is a much bigger problem for Labour, we've

:46:06.:46:10.

already seen some Shadow Cabinet issues in the previous week. You

:46:11.:46:14.

have got to remember it's not just a majority of Labour MPs that want to

:46:15.:46:19.

stay in the European Union, but a majority of Labour constituencies,

:46:20.:46:24.

and a majority of labour macro voters wanted to stay as well so we

:46:25.:46:28.

have three lines of division. One amendment that might get through if

:46:29.:46:32.

it was called, and it is in the hands of the Deputy speaker who will

:46:33.:46:35.

be chairing these debates, and that will be an amendment that said

:46:36.:46:40.

regardless of how the Europeans treat our citizens in Europe, all EU

:46:41.:46:46.

citizens here will be afforded full rights to remain. That might get

:46:47.:46:52.

through. It may indeed and lots of backbench MPs would backpack. We all

:46:53.:46:58.

know there will not be mass deportations, it is not legal, it

:46:59.:47:03.

won't happen, it is simply a negotiating tactic. I agree with

:47:04.:47:07.

those who say you shouldn't be using people as a negotiating tactic, but

:47:08.:47:11.

the reality as it is the EU leaders that are doing that because it's

:47:12.:47:16.

already been offered. The remain as should be attacking the EU

:47:17.:47:20.

governments for not offering that in return. Article 50 is the easy bit

:47:21.:47:25.

for her. I agree with other members of the panel that she will get it

:47:26.:47:28.

through and the court case almost helps her by getting an easy journey

:47:29.:47:33.

through Parliament, then it gets really difficult. All of this has

:47:34.:47:37.

been a preamble and once she begins that nightmarish negotiation, there

:47:38.:47:43.

will be opportunities for a smart opposition to make quite a lot of

:47:44.:47:49.

the turmoil to come. Whether Labour are capable of that, let's wait and

:47:50.:47:55.

see. The divisions in Labour are nightmarish for them but by no means

:47:56.:47:59.

unprecedented. Arguably it was much more complicated in the early 1970s

:48:00.:48:04.

when you had Titans on either side, big ex-cabinet ministers... Tony

:48:05.:48:12.

Benn... Michael Foot, they were all at it. The fundamental issue of in

:48:13.:48:18.

or out, and they won two elections, so you have got to be really clever.

:48:19.:48:25.

But also how money more Labour MPs will resign. We shall find out this

:48:26.:48:26.

week. The Daily Politics is back

:48:27.:48:28.

tomorrow at midday and all I'll be back here

:48:29.:48:32.

on BBC one next week. Remember - if it's Sunday,

:48:33.:48:35.

it's the Sunday Politics. a free five-a-side tournament

:48:36.:49:09.

that's for everyone. For more information,

:49:10.:49:23.

go to the Get Inspired website.

:49:24.:49:27.

Andrew Neil and Patrick Burns are joined by Nigel Farage, MEP. The Political Panel consists of Janan Ganesh of the Financial Times, Julia Hartley-Brewer of talkRADIO and journalist Steve Richards.