23/04/2017 Sunday Politics West Midlands


23/04/2017

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It's Sunday afternoon - this is the Sunday Politics.

:00:36.:00:39.

Jeremy Corbyn wants to give everyone in Britain four

:00:40.:00:42.

extra bank holidays - but is the Labour leader up

:00:43.:00:44.

to being Prime Minister if he wins the election in just

:00:45.:00:47.

Theresa May says she wants a stronger hand to deliver Brexit -

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how will the Conservatives go about getting the bigger

:00:54.:00:55.

I'll be asking Party Chairman, Patrick McLoughlin.

:00:56.:01:02.

And I've been in Paris where voters are going to the polls in first

:01:03.:01:06.

round of the French Presidential election - what could be the impact

:01:07.:01:09.

And in the Midlands: unpredictable of contests?

:01:10.:01:13.

Will this be the most unwanted collection?

:01:14.:01:14.

Not the general election, but next month's poll for metro mayor.

:01:15.:01:18.

We'll also talk about the county elections too, in half an hour.

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Will the Remain majority punish the Tories for the decision?

:01:22.:01:23.

Or feel they may not like it but the Tories

:01:24.:01:25.

And with me has always ready for the marathon task of covering a snap

:01:26.:01:40.

general election, even working on bank holidays, the best and

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brightest political panel in the business. David Wooding, Polly

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Toynbee and Toby Young. So Labour's big announcement this

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morning was a crowd pleaser. Four more rainy bank

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holidays to enjoy - one for each of the patron saints

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of England, Scotland, But Mr Corbyn probably won't be

:01:53.:01:55.

getting the time off work if he wins And on The Andrew Marr Show this

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morning he was asked what he would do as Prime Minister

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if the security services asked him to authorise a drone strike

:02:06.:02:08.

on the leader of Islamic State. What I'd tell them is,

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give me the information you've got, tell me how accurate that is,

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tell me what you I'm asking you about decisions you

:02:16.:02:17.

would take as Prime Minister. Can I take you back

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to the whole point? Is the objective

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to start more strikes that may kill many innocent

:02:30.:02:33.

people, as has happened? Do you think killing

:02:34.:02:35.

the leader of Isis would be I think the leader of Isis not

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being around would be helpful, and I'm no supporter or defender

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in any way of Isis. But I would also argue that

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the bombing campaign has killed a of whom were virtually prisoners of

:02:49.:02:53.

Isis. So you've got to think

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about these things. Mr Corbyn earlier. David, is his

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reply refreshing damaging? It is damaging. He has clearly been

:03:03.:03:07.

freaked to the fire already in the first week, there will be lots of

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questions on his suitability as a leader and the damage it could cause

:03:12.:03:14.

to our national security over the weeks ahead and Andrew Marr has cut

:03:15.:03:19.

straight to the chase here. The other thing, of course, is the

:03:20.:03:22.

letters of last resort, one of the first duties of a Prime Minister

:03:23.:03:25.

when he walks into No 10 is to sign these letters on his own, on or --

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or on her own in a room, a very lonely moment, to decide whether he

:03:32.:03:34.

should press the nuclear button and that goes in the Vanguard submarines

:03:35.:03:38.

and is opened in the event of a strike and he has dodged a question

:03:39.:03:42.

so many times. One must wonder what he would do that. He has to make

:03:43.:03:46.

these decisions as Prime Minister. On the Isis point, refreshing or

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damaging? It sure is his base, the people who support him, that's the

:03:52.:03:56.

sort of thing they support info and maybe his tactic is that's all he's

:03:57.:03:59.

going to get, that is what the polls seem to suggest, in which case they

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will be pleased, and say yes, the man is a man for these who doesn't

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press buttons and shoot people down. But if you want to win you have to

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deal with your own weaknesses and reach out to other people. I think

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most people would say that's not somebody who could defend the

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country. I wonder if he was being totally honest in saying he would

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consider it he would ask for more information. He has previously been

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on the record as being against drone strikes in principle, he's

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campaigned against them, he wants to abolish drones. I think Andrew Marr

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let him off saying it was a drone strike rather than a Navy SEAL or

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SAS operation and he had the fact that they could be collateral

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damage. We that's not his position because he condemned the

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assassination of Osama Bin Laden even though there was no collateral

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damage. David is right on the Trident point, he fetched the

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question. We heard Niall Griffiths on this very show saying Trident,

:04:58.:05:03.

the renewal of Trident, would be in the next Labour Party manifesto. It

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turns out now we don't know and when he was asked he said that remains to

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be seen, his re-opened a can of worms. What he has said about

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Trident which was extraordinary was, we will rebuild the submarines but

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not have any nukes on them which is expensive and useless. And of course

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the Labour Party were forced soon after that interview to put out a

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statement saying it is Labour Party policy to renew Trident. So where

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are we? Do we know what the party's policy is? It is to renew Trident

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but he has started this review which involves looking at it all again. We

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know he is a unilateralist to start with but whether he can force this

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through is dubious. Does it matter, though, if the party policy is in

:05:46.:05:49.

favour of Trident, if the leader is not? The potential Prime Minister is

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not? They split three ways when they went to vote on it in the Commons.

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The party agreed they were pro-Trident and when it came to the

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vote they split three ways. I think it's difficult for them, it's always

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been a really difficult issue for Labour. The question is whether you

:06:06.:06:09.

want to seal off your negatives, whether you really want to try and

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reach out to people. There are an awful lot of people who will like

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what he said, there are an awful lot of people that think we have been

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involved in terrible wars, we have wasted a lot of money and blood and

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let's just get back from the whole thing, let's retreat from the world

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and not try punching above our weight. There is something to be

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said for that and it is a reasonable argument. He's been true to himself

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on this. I think he is and Polly is right, lots of people will agree

:06:39.:06:41.

with him, not enough to win a general election, the latest ComRes

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poll shows Tories on 50% and Labour on 25 and as my colleague James

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Forsyth in the Spectator said if this was a boxing match it would

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have been stopped by now by the revelry. We are not stopping, we are

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going on. So the political parties have had

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to move into election mode Stand by for battle buses,

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mail shots and your social media timeline being bombarded

:06:58.:07:01.

by political propoganda. But none of this comes cheap -

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Adam's been doing his sums. Democracy is priceless but those

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planes, trains and automobiles used in the last election cost money

:07:09.:07:13.

and we know exactly how much, thanks to the Electoral

:07:14.:07:16.

Commission database. The Conservatives flew David Cameron

:07:17.:07:21.

to every part of the UK in one day on a private plane costing ?29,000,

:07:22.:07:25.

in-flight meals extra. They shelled out ?1.2 million

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for adverts on Facebook. The most expensive item was their

:07:32.:07:37.

election guru Lynton Crosby. They bought ?2.4 million worth

:07:38.:07:41.

of advice and research from his firm Labour's biggest expenditure

:07:42.:07:44.

was on good old-fashioned leaflets, costing ?7.4 million

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to print and deliver. Hope they didn't go straight

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into the recycling. Cheap for all the

:07:54.:07:58.

enjoyment it gave us. To turn a normal minibus

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into Harriet Harman's pink bus Nick Clegg toured the country doing

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all manner of stunts transported although the party got a grand's

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discount when it broke down. Ukip's then leader Nigel Farage

:08:17.:08:29.

was accompanied by bodyguards Nicola Sturgeon's chopper

:08:30.:08:31.

cost the SNP ?35,450. Plaid Cymru spent just over

:08:32.:08:40.

?1,000 on media training And the Greens spent ?6,912

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promoting their tweets. It adds up to a grand total

:08:45.:08:58.

for all the parties of ?37,560,039. Jabbing at my calculator that works

:08:59.:09:02.

out at less than ?1 per voter. Adam Fleming there -

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and joining me now is the man responsible for the Conservative

:09:09.:09:13.

election campaigns - for the locals next month

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and the general election in June - Welcome to the programme. The Crown

:09:18.:09:25.

Prosecution Service is reviewing evidence from 14 police forces that

:09:26.:09:28.

your party breached election spending rules on multiple occasions

:09:29.:09:33.

in the last election. What are you going to do differently this time?

:09:34.:09:39.

Well, the battle buses are part of the National campaign spend. You saw

:09:40.:09:45.

them just on the shot that you did, all three parties had those battle

:09:46.:09:48.

buses so that's why we believe they were part of the national spend and

:09:49.:09:52.

it was declared that way. At least 30 people in your party, MPs and

:09:53.:09:55.

agents, being investigated because they may not have been right to

:09:56.:10:00.

include it in the national spend. Are you saying you are going to do

:10:01.:10:02.

nothing differently this time? You asked me about last time and the way

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the position is... Was. I asked you about this time. We will take a

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careful count and make sure that everything that we do is within the

:10:15.:10:20.

law. But as I say, the last election, all three parties had

:10:21.:10:24.

battle buses. It is your party that above all has been investigated by

:10:25.:10:28.

14 police forces. You must surely be taking stock of that and working out

:10:29.:10:34.

how to do some things differently. You are being investigated because

:10:35.:10:38.

you put stuff on the National Ledger which should have been on the local

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constituency ledger. Are you looking at that again? All of the parties

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had battle buses and they all put them on their national spend. I

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don't think any of the parties put them on the local spend. The other

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battle buses were not full of their party activists. Your party stuffed

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these battle buses with activists and took them to constituencies.

:10:58.:11:03.

That's the difference. And I ask again, what is different this time?

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Are you going to run the risk of being investigated yet again? We

:11:08.:11:11.

believe that we fully compliant with the electoral law as it was. What

:11:12.:11:16.

will happen if one of these, or two or three or four or five of these 30

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people, Tory MPs, or agents running campaigns are charged during the

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campaign? As I say I believe we properly declared our election

:11:28.:11:31.

expenses. What happens if they are charged? You asking me a

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hypothetical question, the importance of this election is about

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who is in Downing Street in seven weeks' time. Let me clarify this,

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you maintain that in 2015 you did nothing wrong with how you allocated

:11:43.:11:46.

the cost and the activities of the battle buses and you would do

:11:47.:11:48.

exactly the same this time round? What we did at the last election we

:11:49.:11:53.

believe fully complied with the law. So the battle buses this time,

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stocked full of activists, will still be charged to the national

:11:59.:12:02.

campaign even when they go to local constituencies? Will they? We will

:12:03.:12:10.

be looking at the way we do it, there is new guidance from the

:12:11.:12:14.

Electoral Commission out and we will look at that guidance. It is not the

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guidance, it is the lawful stop the Electoral Commission said that, if

:12:19.:12:22.

you look at the report they did on us, they said there was one area

:12:23.:12:25.

where we had over claimed, over declared, and another area we had

:12:26.:12:29.

and declared. We haven't worked out what to do

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yet, have you? We will get on with the campaign and

:12:33.:12:36.

start the campaign and I'm looking forward to the campaign.

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I'm trying to work out of the campaign is going to be legal or not

:12:39.:12:41.

because last time it seems it could have been illegal.

:12:42.:12:45.

I am sure the campaign will be legal.

:12:46.:12:47.

You started the campaign warning about the prospect of, the coalition

:12:48.:12:52.

of chaos. Mr Corbyn has ruled out a post-election coalition with the SNP

:12:53.:13:00.

and so have the Lib Dems so who is going to be in this coalition?

:13:01.:13:02.

Vince Cable said he was looking towards a possible coalition trying

:13:03.:13:04.

to stop a Conservative government. Is not the leader of the Lib Dems.

:13:05.:13:07.

He's an important voice in the Lib Dems. Who will be in it? Let's see

:13:08.:13:14.

because of the Conservative Party is not re-elected with a strong

:13:15.:13:17.

majority, what will happen? There will be a coalition stopping us

:13:18.:13:20.

doing the things we need to do. Who will be in it? It will be a

:13:21.:13:25.

coalition of the Labour Party, the SNP and the Liberal party. They have

:13:26.:13:28.

ruled it out. I think they would not rule it out if that was the

:13:29.:13:32.

situation. Like Theresa May not ruling out an election and then

:13:33.:13:36.

changing her mind? The things the Prime Minister said were very clear,

:13:37.:13:40.

once she had served Article 50 there was an opportunity, as we know

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today, there is going to be the start of a new government formed in

:13:45.:13:48.

France and in September we have the German elections. So it was quite

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right that we didn't get ourselves boxed into a timetable. That is why

:13:52.:13:57.

the Prime Minister took the view that they should be a general

:13:58.:14:01.

election to give her full strength of an electoral mandate when it

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comes to those negotiations. What about Mr Corbyn's plan for four new

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bank holidays, good idea? I'm not... If we get Corbyn in No 10 Downing St

:14:12.:14:14.

we will have a permanent bank holiday of the United Kingdom. We

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will have fewer bank holidays of most other major nations, most about

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major wealthy nations. What about at least one more? Well, look, he's

:14:26.:14:29.

talked about four bank holidays. Today would be a bank holiday and

:14:30.:14:34.

next Monday would be a bank holiday and the other week was a bank

:14:35.:14:38.

holiday too. I don't think it's very well thought out. It sounded more to

:14:39.:14:42.

me something like you get in school mock elections rather than proper

:14:43.:14:46.

elections. Your party is the self-styled party of the workers and

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you have no plans to give the workers even one extra bank holiday?

:14:50.:14:53.

What we want to do is ensure Britain is a strong economy and building on

:14:54.:14:58.

the jobs that we have created since 2010. We were told that by reducing

:14:59.:15:02.

public expenditure unemployment in this country would go up,

:15:03.:15:07.

unemployment has gone down and the number of jobs have gone up

:15:08.:15:12.

substantially. But no more bank holidays? Well, we will make our

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manifesto in due course but I don't think four bank holidays held in

:15:16.:15:19.

April, March and November are very attractive to people. When Ed

:15:20.:15:25.

Miliband as leader of the Labour Party suggested the government

:15:26.:15:34.

should control energy prices by capping them, the Conservatives

:15:35.:15:38.

described that as almost Communist and central planning. Do still take

:15:39.:15:42.

that view? You'll see what we have to say on energy prices. I didn't

:15:43.:15:46.

you about that, I asked you if you take the view... The Prime Minister

:15:47.:15:50.

made a speech at the Conservative Spring conference in which she

:15:51.:15:53.

outlined her dissatisfaction about people who are kept locked on a

:15:54.:15:56.

standard tariff and those are the issues we will address in the next

:15:57.:15:59.

few weeks when the manifesto was published.

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Would that be an act of communism? You will need to see what we say

:16:05.:16:10.

when we set out the policies. It could be. You could put a Communist

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act into your manifesto? I don't think you'll find a Communist

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manifesto in a Conservative manifesto which will be launched...

:16:22.:16:25.

You are planning to control prices? We will address what we think is

:16:26.:16:29.

unfairness in the energy market. Mr Jeremy Corbyn was reluctant this

:16:30.:16:33.

morning to sanction a drone strike. You heard us talking about it

:16:34.:16:39.

earlier against the leader of Islamic State if our intelligence

:16:40.:16:43.

services identified him. What would it achieve? When the Prime Minister

:16:44.:16:47.

gets certain advice in the national interests, she has to act been that.

:16:48.:16:52.

We've seen with Theresa May in her time as Home Secretary and Prime

:16:53.:16:55.

Minister, she's not afraid to take those very difficult decisions. What

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we say this morning from Jeremy Corbyn was a his tans, a reluctance.

:17:00.:17:03.

I don't think that serves the country well. What would it achieve

:17:04.:17:10.

if we take out the head of Islamic State he's replaced by somebody

:17:11.:17:15.

else. It brings their organisation into difficulties. It undermines

:17:16.:17:20.

their organisation. It shows we'll take every measure to undo an

:17:21.:17:24.

organisation which has organised terrorism in different parts of

:17:25.:17:27.

Europe, the UK. I think it is absolutely right the Prime Minister

:17:28.:17:30.

is prepared to take those kind of measures. Jeremy Corbyn said he

:17:31.:17:35.

wasn't prepared to take that. Because he wasn't sure what it would

:17:36.:17:40.

achieve. The Obama administration launched hundreds of drone strikes

:17:41.:17:45.

in various war zones and we in the west are still under attack on a

:17:46.:17:51.

regular basis. Mr Corbyn's basis was what would it achieve? It would

:17:52.:17:57.

achieve a safer position for the UK overall. The war on terrorists. But

:17:58.:18:01.

the Westminster attack, Paris has just been attacked again? There's

:18:02.:18:06.

been attacks which have been stopped by the intelligence services. We

:18:07.:18:10.

must do all we can to support them. The question was about drone

:18:11.:18:14.

strikes. Whether it is drone strikes or other action, we have to be

:18:15.:18:19.

prepared to act. Let's move on to Brexit. It is the major reason the

:18:20.:18:23.

Prime Minister's called the election? Not the only within but

:18:24.:18:27.

the main reason? It is one of the reasons. Now we start the two-year

:18:28.:18:31.

negotiations and then a year afterwards. Also the way in which

:18:32.:18:36.

certain people said they would try to use in the House of Lords or

:18:37.:18:39.

House of Commons to prevent us making progress. I think you'll put

:18:40.:18:47.

in your manifesto, it is the Government's policy, the Brexit

:18:48.:18:52.

negotiating position will be no more freedom of movement. Leave the

:18:53.:18:59.

single market and no longer under the jurisdiction Europe. You expect

:19:00.:19:02.

every Tory MP to fight on that manifesto. What will you do with Ken

:19:03.:19:08.

Clarke and Anna? They will have fought on their manifesto. They will

:19:09.:19:13.

understand the Prime Minister has the authority of the ballot box

:19:14.:19:16.

behind them. Will they fight the election on these positions? I'm

:19:17.:19:21.

sure they'll fight the election supporting the election of a

:19:22.:19:26.

Conservative Government and it's manifesto will quite clearly set

:19:27.:19:29.

out... You know they're against these positions. Ken Clarke has a

:19:30.:19:34.

prod tradition of expressing a certain view. Overall, the party's

:19:35.:19:38.

manifesto, it is not just individuals like Ken Clarke, it is

:19:39.:19:42.

what happens as far as the House of Lords are concerned, people said

:19:43.:19:47.

they'd use the House of Lords to prevent certain measures. You're the

:19:48.:19:51.

party chairman, will it be possible for people like Ken Clarke to fight

:19:52.:19:56.

this election under the Conservative ticket without sub describing to all

:19:57.:20:01.

-- subscribing to all of these Brexit conditions? Ken Clarke will

:20:02.:20:07.

fight as Conservative candidates. That wasn't my question. I know

:20:08.:20:11.

that. Will they be allowed to fight it on their own ticket and not

:20:12.:20:15.

subscribe to what is in your manifesto? The manifesto will be

:20:16.:20:19.

what the Conservative Party fights the General Election on. There will

:20:20.:20:23.

always be cases where people have had different views on different

:20:24.:20:29.

parts of the manifesto. That will be the guiding principles for the

:20:30.:20:35.

party. Philip Hammond says your election promises in 2015, in your

:20:36.:20:40.

manifesto not to raise taxes tied his hands when it came to managing

:20:41.:20:44.

the economy. Do you agree with him? No. The simple fact is we have to do

:20:45.:20:49.

the best things for the economy. We'll set out in our manifesto in a

:20:50.:20:53.

few weeks' time, what the policies will be for the next Parliament. Can

:20:54.:20:58.

I clarify, you don't agree with your Chancellor? What Philip was saying

:20:59.:21:04.

was some of the areas we wants to address as Chancellor, what the

:21:05.:21:09.

party will do, it will set out all the issues we're fighting on. It

:21:10.:21:12.

will set out clearly the choice we have in this country. That's the

:21:13.:21:16.

important thing. Let me put the question to you again. Philip

:21:17.:21:21.

Hammond said this week your election promise in 2015 not to raise taxes

:21:22.:21:25.

had tied his hands when it came to managing the economy. I ask you, do

:21:26.:21:30.

you agree with him? You said no. Philip expressed his view as to what

:21:31.:21:35.

he would like. What I'm saying is in a few weeks' time we'll set the

:21:36.:21:40.

manifesto which will set the policies, agreed with the the

:21:41.:21:44.

Cabinet. He's Chancellor. Doesn't he determine what the economic part of

:21:45.:21:48.

the manifesto is? We'll talk about that in due course. Will you have a

:21:49.:21:53.

lock on the taxes that you locked in 2015 on income tax, VAT, national

:21:54.:21:59.

insurance? That will be decided. You'll see that when we publish the

:22:00.:22:05.

manifesto in a few weeks' time. Will you rule out the possibility taxes

:22:06.:22:09.

may have to rise under a future Conservative Party? Conservative

:22:10.:22:14.

Government. We've taken four million people out of tax. Now, on average,

:22:15.:22:20.

people are paying ?1200 less tax than they were on the same salaries

:22:21.:22:26.

in 2010. I'm very provide of that. I can assure you, the Conservative

:22:27.:22:29.

Party will want to see taxes reduced. It is the Labour Party

:22:30.:22:32.

which will put up taxes. We have the evidence where this he did so.

:22:33.:22:38.

Council tax went up by over 100%. You haven't reduced the tax burden

:22:39.:22:44.

as a percentage of the GDP is now going to reach its highest level

:22:45.:22:50.

since the mid-180s which was when Conservatives were in power. The tax

:22:51.:22:55.

burden in this country under your Government is rising? We've more

:22:56.:22:58.

people paying taxes which is something, because we've a growing

:22:59.:23:01.

economy and more people... What about the tax band? You said you

:23:02.:23:06.

reduced the tax burden on your own Government's figures is rising? We

:23:07.:23:12.

have reduced the tax burden. The threshold at which people start

:23:13.:23:16.

paying. These are tax rates not the tax burden. It is rising. The tax

:23:17.:23:22.

rates have been reduced. You said tax burden. Perhaps I misspoke. Tax

:23:23.:23:27.

rates have been reduced. We'll leave it there. No doubt we'll speak again

:23:28.:23:35.

between now and June Is France now about to make it

:23:36.:23:37.

a hat-trick of shocks The prospect terrifies

:23:38.:23:41.

the governing elite in Paris. But they're no less scared

:23:42.:23:44.

in Brussels and Berlin, given what it could mean

:23:45.:23:47.

for the whole EU project, never mind the huge potential impact

:23:48.:23:49.

on our own Brexit negotiations. 11 candidates are contesting

:23:50.:24:09.

the first round of the presidential Only the top two will go forward

:24:10.:24:11.

to the run-off on May 7th. For the first time since General De

:24:12.:24:17.

Gaulle created the fifth Republic in 1958, it's perfectly possible that

:24:18.:24:22.

no candidate from the ruling parties of the centre-left or the

:24:23.:24:26.

centre-right will even make it The election has been dominated by

:24:27.:24:29.

the hard right in the shape of the who's never been elected

:24:30.:24:36.

to anything and only started his own party

:24:37.:24:43.

a few months ago. And the far left in the form

:24:44.:24:46.

of Jean-Luc Melenchon, a former Trotskyite who has surged

:24:47.:24:48.

in the final weeks of the campaign. The only candidate left from the

:24:49.:24:52.

traditional governing parties is the centre-right's

:24:53.:24:55.

Francois Fillon and he's been struggling to stay in

:24:56.:24:58.

the race ever since it was revealed that his Welsh wife was being paid

:24:59.:25:01.

at generous public expense for a job I've just come across

:25:02.:25:07.

this magazine cover and it kind of sums up the mood

:25:08.:25:21.

of the French people. It's got the five main candidates

:25:22.:25:24.

for President here but it calls them the biggest liar, the biggest cheat,

:25:25.:25:28.

the biggest traitor, the most paranoid, the biggest demagogue,

:25:29.:25:31.

and it says they are the winners The four leading candidates,

:25:32.:25:34.

Le Pen, Melenchon, Macron and Fillon, or in with a chance

:25:35.:25:44.

of making it to the second round. Only a couple of points separates

:25:45.:25:47.

them in the polls, Frankly, no one has a clue what's

:25:48.:25:49.

going to happen. Of the four, there is a feeling that

:25:50.:25:56.

two of them may be President But the two of them may not find

:25:57.:26:01.

themselves in the second round. Somebody said to me that the man or

:26:02.:26:14.

woman on the Paris Metro has as much a chance of knowing

:26:15.:26:28.

who will win as the greatest experts Because the more expert you are

:26:29.:26:31.

the more you may be wrong. The country has largely

:26:32.:26:38.

stagnated for over a decade. One in ten are unemployed,

:26:39.:26:43.

one in four if you are unlucky Like Britain in the '70s there is

:26:44.:26:46.

the pervasive stench There are three keywords that come

:26:47.:26:50.

to mind. Anger, anger at the elite, and in

:26:51.:26:58.

particular the political elite. And an element of

:26:59.:27:04.

nostalgia for the past. These three words were decisive

:27:05.:27:10.

in the Brexit referendum. They are decisive in

:27:11.:27:14.

the French election. Identity and security has been

:27:15.:27:26.

as important in this election France is a proud nation, it worries

:27:27.:27:29.

about its future in Europe It seems bereft of ideas about how

:27:30.:27:36.

to deal with its largely Muslim migrant population, huge chunks of

:27:37.:27:41.

which are increasingly divorced It is quite simply exhausted by

:27:42.:27:44.

the never-ending Islamist terrorist attacks, the latest only days before

:27:45.:27:55.

voting in the iconic heart of this If Fillon or Macron emerge

:27:56.:27:58.

victorious then there will be continuity of sorts, though Fillon

:27:59.:28:09.

will struggle to implement his Thatcherite agenda and Macron will

:28:10.:28:13.

not be able to count on the support of the French parliament, the

:28:14.:28:17.

National Assembly, for his reforms. But if it's Le Pen or Jean-Luc

:28:18.:28:20.

Melenchon then all bets are off. Both are hardline French

:28:21.:28:26.

nationalists, anti the euro, anti the European Union, anti-fiscal

:28:27.:28:29.

discipline, anti the market, Either in the Elysee Palace

:28:30.:28:32.

would represent an existential Brexit would simply become

:28:33.:28:41.

a sideshow, the negotiations could just peter out as Brussels

:28:42.:28:50.

and Berlin had bigger fish to fry. We're joined now from

:28:51.:28:55.

Paris by the journalist 8th Welcome to the programme.

:28:56.:29:06.

Overshadowing the voting today was yet another appalling terrorist

:29:07.:29:10.

attack in Paris on Thursday night. Do we have any indications of how

:29:11.:29:17.

that's playing into the election? That initially people thought this

:29:18.:29:21.

has been almost foiled in that the police were there as a ramp up. One

:29:22.:29:26.

policeman was killed. But the terrorist did not spray the crowd

:29:27.:29:30.

with bullets. It was seen as not having much of an effect on the

:29:31.:29:36.

election. This has changed. We now know the policeman who was killed, a

:29:37.:29:42.

young man about to the promoted, he was at the Bataclan the night of the

:29:43.:29:47.

terror attack. He was a fighter for LGBT rights. The fact he was

:29:48.:29:54.

promoted, happy within his job, he has this fresh face. Sudden, he's

:29:55.:30:01.

one of us. It took perhaps 48 hours for the French to process this. But

:30:02.:30:06.

now they're angry and this may actually change the game, at least

:30:07.:30:12.

at the margins. To whose advantage? I would say the two who might

:30:13.:30:19.

benefit from this are Marine Le Pen, she's been absolutely

:30:20.:30:23.

anti-immigration, anti-anything. And made no bones about it as she

:30:24.:30:28.

immediately made rather strange announcement in which she'd said if

:30:29.:30:31.

she'd been president none of the terror attacks which happened in

:30:32.:30:35.

France would have happened. Francois Fillon has written a book two years

:30:36.:30:43.

ago called Combating Islamic Terrorism he's has an organised plan

:30:44.:30:47.

in his manifesto. Unlike Emmanuel Macron who stumbled when he was

:30:48.:30:51.

asked the evening this happened what he thought, he said, I can't dream

:30:52.:30:56.

up an anti-terror programme overnight. The question, of course,

:30:57.:31:00.

that arrows was this is not the sort of thing that's just happened

:31:01.:31:03.

overnight. It's been unfortunately the fate of France for many years.

:31:04.:31:09.

Let me ask you this finally, what ever the outcome on May 7th in the

:31:10.:31:14.

second round, who ever wins, would it be fair to say French politics

:31:15.:31:20.

will never be the same again? Yes. Absolutely it's a very strange

:31:21.:31:23.

thing. People have no become really excited about this. You cannot go

:31:24.:31:28.

anywhere without people discussing heatedly this election. The anger

:31:29.:31:32.

that was described is very accurate. Very true. There was this feeling as

:31:33.:31:39.

for the Brexit voters and the Trump voters, vast parts of the people

:31:40.:31:43.

were being talked down to by people who despised them. This has to

:31:44.:31:49.

change. If it doesn't change, we cannot predict what the future will

:31:50.:31:55.

be. We'll know the results or at least the ex-the Poll London time

:31:56.:32:00.

tonight at 8.00pm. Thank for joining us from the glorious heart of your

:32:01.:32:01.

city. Now, the Green Party currently has

:32:02.:32:05.

one MP and they'll be contesting many more seats in June

:32:06.:32:08.

as well as hoping to increase their presence on councils in

:32:09.:32:11.

the local elections on 4th May. Launching their campaign

:32:12.:32:14.

on Thursday, co-leader Caroline Lucas made

:32:15.:32:15.

a pitch to younger voters. When it comes to young

:32:16.:32:17.

people they've been But one crucial way they've been

:32:18.:32:19.

betrayed is by what this generation and this government and the previous

:32:20.:32:24.

ones have been doing when it comes We know we had the hottest year

:32:25.:32:27.

on record last year, you know, you almost think what else does

:32:28.:32:32.

the environment need to be doing All the signs are there

:32:33.:32:35.

and it is young people who are going to be bearing

:32:36.:32:39.

the brunt of a wrecked environment and that's why it's so important

:32:40.:32:41.

that when we come to making that pitch to, yes, the country at large

:32:42.:32:45.

but to young people in particular, I think climate change,

:32:46.:32:48.

the environment, looking after our precious resources,

:32:49.:32:50.

has to be up there. And I'm joined now by the Green

:32:51.:32:54.

MEP, Molly Scott Cato. Welcome back to the programme.

:32:55.:33:09.

Promised to scrap university tuition fees, increase NHS funding, rollback

:33:10.:33:12.

cuts to local councils spending, how much would that cost and how would

:33:13.:33:16.

you pay for it? Like the other parties we haven't got a costed

:33:17.:33:19.

manifesto yet, it's only a few days since the election was announced so

:33:20.:33:22.

I will come back and explain the figures. You don't know? Like every

:33:23.:33:26.

party we have not produced accosted manifesto yet, we produced one last

:33:27.:33:32.

time but public spending figures have changed so we're not in a

:33:33.:33:35.

position to do that but we will be in a week or so. What taxes would

:33:36.:33:40.

you like to consider raising? We would consider having higher taxes

:33:41.:33:44.

for the better off in society. I think we need to increase the amount

:33:45.:33:49.

of tax wealthier people pay. How do you define better off? I'm not

:33:50.:33:52.

entirely clear what the precise number would be but I think 100,000

:33:53.:33:59.

people would pay a bit more, 150,000 quite considerably more but the real

:34:00.:34:02.

focus needs to be on companies avoiding paying taxes. I work on

:34:03.:34:06.

that a lot in my role in the European Parliament, we see an

:34:07.:34:08.

enormous amount of tax avoidance by companies moving profits from

:34:09.:34:12.

country to country and we need European corporation to make that

:34:13.:34:15.

successful. It has not made much difference yet. We have made lots of

:34:16.:34:21.

changes. Google turned over $1 billion and only paid 25 million in

:34:22.:34:25.

taxes last year. There was a significant fine introduced by the

:34:26.:34:29.

competition commission on Apple and in the case of Google we must change

:34:30.:34:33.

the laws so that people cannot move profits from country to country.

:34:34.:34:39.

Everybody wants to do it. But you couldn't face a big spending

:34:40.:34:42.

programme on the ability to do that. You'd have to increase other taxes.

:34:43.:34:46.

If you look at the cost of free student tuition, tuition fees and

:34:47.:34:49.

also maintenance grants to students, that would come in at about 10

:34:50.:34:53.

billion a year. One way of paying for that would be to remove the

:34:54.:34:56.

upper threshold on National Insurance, bringing in 20 billion a

:34:57.:35:00.

year, that's the order of magnitude we are talking about. It is not

:35:01.:35:04.

vast, and some of the proposals we have... That would be an increase on

:35:05.:35:08.

the better of tax? National Insurance on people earning...

:35:09.:35:15.

People earning above 42,000. You would have another 10% tax above

:35:16.:35:19.

42,000? I can't remember exactly how much the National Insurance rate

:35:20.:35:25.

changes by. But in government figures it would be 28 billion

:35:26.:35:29.

raised. I think it is up to 45, a bit more you pay a marginal rate of

:35:30.:35:33.

40%, you would have them pay a marginal rate of over 50%? We would

:35:34.:35:38.

put the National Insurance rate on higher incomes the same as it is on

:35:39.:35:42.

lower incomes. If you are a school head of an English department on 50,

:35:43.:35:45.

60,000 a year you would face a marginal rate under U of over 50%?

:35:46.:35:51.

It is not useful to do this as a mental maths exercise but if you

:35:52.:35:56.

look at other proposals would could have a landlord licensing system,

:35:57.:36:00.

longer term leases on properties, so young people particularly, but also

:36:01.:36:03.

older people who rent, could have more security which needn't cost

:36:04.:36:06.

anything. We could insist on landlords paying for that. The

:36:07.:36:11.

mental arithmetic seems clear but we will come back to that. How is the

:36:12.:36:15.

Progressive Alliance coming? It is going well, I have heard of a lot of

:36:16.:36:19.

interest at local level. Winterset this in contest, context, lots of

:36:20.:36:24.

progressives are concerned about the crisis in public services, prisons,

:36:25.:36:29.

social care system, and also about the Tories' hard extreme Brexit they

:36:30.:36:32.

are threatening. You want the left to come together? Theresa May has

:36:33.:36:37.

given us opportunity, she has taken a risk because she has problems with

:36:38.:36:40.

backbenchers, she doesn't think she can get through Brexit with a small

:36:41.:36:44.

majority so there is an opportunity and we are saying progressives must

:36:45.:36:47.

come together to corporate, Conservatives are effective at using

:36:48.:36:50.

the first-past-the-post system and we have to become effective as well.

:36:51.:36:55.

Do you accept this Progressive Alliance cannot become the

:36:56.:36:58.

government and Mr Corbyn is the Prime Minister? How could it happen

:36:59.:37:02.

otherwise? I think that is a secondary question. For me the

:37:03.:37:06.

primary question is who do people choose to vote for? Aluminium

:37:07.:37:09.

government afterwards comes after the election. In most countries that

:37:10.:37:13.

is the case. I understand that but we have the system we have and you

:37:14.:37:16.

accept this Progressive Alliance cannot be in power and thus mystical

:37:17.:37:20.

Burmese Prime Minister? Personally I think Mr Corbyn is less of a threat

:37:21.:37:23.

to the country than Theresa May, she has shown herself to be an

:37:24.:37:26.

authoritarian leader and she has said she doesn't want to have

:37:27.:37:33.

dissidents, which I would say is reasonable opposition, and what we

:37:34.:37:35.

are suggesting at the moment is there is a way of avoiding that very

:37:36.:37:38.

hard Brexit and damage to public services. You'd be happy to pay the

:37:39.:37:40.

price of having Mr Corbyn as Prime Minister? I do not see that as a

:37:41.:37:45.

price. People have the choice of Jeremy Corbyn or Theresa May as

:37:46.:37:48.

Prime Minister, that's the system that works. You would prefer Mr

:37:49.:37:53.

Corbyn? I would but votes are translated into seats and the

:37:54.:37:56.

Progressive Alliance is a step towards that.

:37:57.:37:58.

It's just gone 3:50pm, you're watching the Sunday Politics.

:37:59.:38:00.

We say goodbye to viewers in Scotland, Wales

:38:01.:38:02.

and Northern Ireland who leave us now.

:38:03.:38:04.

Coming up here in 20 minutes, the Week Ahead.

:38:05.:38:14.

Hello again, welcome to the Sunday Politics in the Midlands.

:38:15.:38:17.

And yet again, our part of the country is in the front line,

:38:18.:38:20.

Our marginal seats, always seen as the killing fields

:38:21.:38:27.

And before that, a hard-fought tournament for Midlands metro mayor,

:38:28.:38:33.

plus the fight for control of our powerful county authorities.

:38:34.:38:37.

That's our St George's Day pageant here today.

:38:38.:38:40.

Steve McCabe, Labour MP for Birmingham Selly Oak,

:38:41.:38:45.

and Mark Pawsey, Conservative MP for Rugby in Warwickshire.

:38:46.:38:53.

How did we manage to be caught on the hop by Theresa May's call

:38:54.:38:57.

Speculation had been rife for months, despite a succession

:38:58.:39:02.

of emphatic denials by one minister after another.

:39:03.:39:07.

But that all just seemed so last week when the Prime Minister made

:39:08.:39:12.

one of her first stops on the campaign trail yesterday

:39:13.:39:14.

in the weather-vane town of Dudley, with its two marginal seats -

:39:15.:39:18.

Every vote that's cast here in the Black Country

:39:19.:39:23.

is going to count and every vote that's cast here in the Black

:39:24.:39:26.

Country is going to be important for the future of our country.

:39:27.:39:29.

Because it is about delivering that strong and stable leadership,

:39:30.:39:33.

that strong and stable Government, that can take this country

:39:34.:39:35.

Theresa May in Dublin yesterday. Mark Pawsey, if all those arguments

:39:36.:39:52.

expressed by Minister after Mr so recently against an early general

:39:53.:39:56.

election held good as recently as that, what's changed? The idea that

:39:57.:40:01.

it's about delivering Brexit and analogy would be a distraction,

:40:02.:40:08.

what's changed? The most important decision facing our generation has

:40:09.:40:12.

been made, to leave the EU, and winger had to proceed with that. I

:40:13.:40:16.

was one of those and many others that was surprised about the

:40:17.:40:20.

election being called, the bass majority of MPs agreed when we went

:40:21.:40:22.

through the division lobbies last week. The more you think about it,

:40:23.:40:29.

the more sensible action right now is. Because the Article 50

:40:30.:40:32.

negotiations will take two years, I don't think we want to be concluding

:40:33.:40:37.

those negotiations as we start the five year election in 2020. If we

:40:38.:40:42.

get an action now and a strong mandate to do the negotiations with

:40:43.:40:49.

our European partners. It could just beat the extended Tory lead in more

:40:50.:40:57.

recent opinion polls. Opinion polls haven't been very accurate in recent

:40:58.:41:02.

years, as an jury you will know! The time is now right to make sure that

:41:03.:41:07.

we have a good run-up to make sure we have a strong coalition of people

:41:08.:41:11.

behind the negotiations we're having with Europe and get a great deal

:41:12.:41:18.

with our European partners. Mrs May talked in deadly yesterday about

:41:19.:41:21.

ordinary working people again and again. That's a clear threat to

:41:22.:41:27.

Europe party, the Sunday Times says she is parking her tags on Labour's

:41:28.:41:32.

lawn? I think ordinary working people will be asking why she's

:41:33.:41:37.

tax credits, when she's cutting tax credits, when she's cutting

:41:38.:41:43.

funding to their schools, 35 at 37 in my constituency are losing. Why

:41:44.:41:49.

she is cutting the police. If she is interested in Audrey, working

:41:50.:41:51.

people, why doesn't you do something to support those people? If you

:41:52.:41:58.

asked that question it a week ago, you would hurt the total opposite.

:41:59.:42:03.

This is nothing than opportunism. -- heard the total opposite. The

:42:04.:42:07.

question is what is coming down the line, what is beta into cutting and

:42:08.:42:12.

running now? We know, Mark, your local police force in Warwickshire

:42:13.:42:17.

is a number who sent papers to the Crown Prosecution Service over the

:42:18.:42:21.

Conservative Party's electoral spending at the last general

:42:22.:42:25.

election, raising the possibility of prosecutions in a number of key

:42:26.:42:31.

constituencies at a crucial, pivotal moment in this campaign? I don't

:42:32.:42:33.

think that is anything to do with the decision to take a night you

:42:34.:42:39.

now. The time is right. People have had the opportunity to see Theresa

:42:40.:42:42.

May of the best part of a year as Prime Minister. I'd been out on the

:42:43.:42:47.

colleagues, and overwhelmingly, colleagues, and overwhelmingly,

:42:48.:42:50.

people like that strong and robust, secure, stable leadership that

:42:51.:42:53.

Theresa May provides. Thank you both for now.

:42:54.:42:54.

The general election will now be the final leg of a real marathon,

:42:55.:42:57.

Nearly two million people have the opportunity

:42:58.:43:00.

to choose the metro mayor, who'll head the new Combined

:43:01.:43:03.

Authority covering Coventry, Birmingham and the Black Country.

:43:04.:43:05.

On Thursday, I hosted the only televised debate, with all six

:43:06.:43:08.

As Amy Cole explains, the top question from our studio audience

:43:09.:43:14.

was whether or not there should be an elected mayor at all.

:43:15.:43:18.

Six candidates for one job, and a big question for all of them...

:43:19.:43:23.

Do we need a metro mayor, or is it just another expensive

:43:24.:43:27.

It's been, perhaps, the defining issue of the campaign often

:43:28.:43:33.

characterised by hostility to the new mayoral role.

:43:34.:43:38.

In 2012, people in Britain and Coventry voted against having

:43:39.:43:41.

a mayor, and now they have a mayor that they didn't want

:43:42.:43:44.

One thing that's really clear, from all the hustings we have done,

:43:45.:43:51.

One of the main objections has been the cost of devolution,

:43:52.:43:55.

which one of the contenders says he would closely monitor.

:43:56.:43:58.

It is expensive, so I'm looking to keep the control of the cost

:43:59.:44:01.

of the combined authority, which have been running

:44:02.:44:03.

Who knows how many millions per year it's already costing.

:44:04.:44:08.

For the two front runners though, the role offers an opportunity

:44:09.:44:10.

for a region that's too often been overlooked.

:44:11.:44:13.

One of the reasons why this region has done relatively poorly over

:44:14.:44:17.

the last 40 years is that we have not had somebody championing

:44:18.:44:21.

the region around Britain and around the world.

:44:22.:44:24.

What this needs to be is part of a process of taking back control,

:44:25.:44:29.

real control, real power from the London Government that has

:44:30.:44:33.

let us down for 40 years in the West Midlands and finally

:44:34.:44:37.

starting to run the West Midlands ourselves.

:44:38.:44:39.

For the Liberal Democrats, it offers a chance to end politics as usual.

:44:40.:44:44.

I notice that Sion says this is about the London Government,

:44:45.:44:48.

But actually, it's the Labour Party and the Conservative Party

:44:49.:44:52.

The rank outsider summed up the mood of many questioning

:44:53.:44:58.

We already have Government in the West Midlands.

:44:59.:45:01.

We already have councils, council leaders.

:45:02.:45:04.

This isn't an extra layer of Government,

:45:05.:45:07.

And from the questioner, Mr Slater, a clear verdict.

:45:08.:45:13.

And when it comes to casting my vote, I'm going to spoil my paper

:45:14.:45:18.

and write across it, no mayor, please.

:45:19.:45:22.

With the election less than two weeks away,

:45:23.:45:24.

there's still plenty of work to do to convince the sceptics.

:45:25.:45:36.

And if you missed our debates, you can catch up with it on the iPlayer.

:45:37.:45:43.

We're also joined today by the Ukip MEP, Bill Etheridge. He said to me

:45:44.:45:50.

not long ago that if this metro mayoral role really is about

:45:51.:45:55.

devolution, then it is devolution from the people to the

:45:56.:45:57.

establishment. But that hasn't stopped your party from fielding a

:45:58.:46:02.

candidate. Bearing in mind that you obviously do take a dim role of this

:46:03.:46:07.

mayoral role, do you support Graham Slater, the man in this cert we have

:46:08.:46:12.

seen their in the audience, and his determination to spoil his ballot

:46:13.:46:17.

paper? His determination made sense, and this role is something very few

:46:18.:46:23.

people want. I stand by my comments. But Pete Durnell, our candidates, is

:46:24.:46:26.

standing on the platform of making the best of a bad job making sure

:46:27.:46:29.

the people of this area don't get ripped off any more than they are.

:46:30.:46:34.

So he's and anti-mayoral Mayor? You don't need to spoil your ballot

:46:35.:46:42.

paper, just put a cross by Pete Durnell, Ukip, and he will do his

:46:43.:46:45.

best to make this as painless as it can be. I take my hat off to him for

:46:46.:46:52.

standing. Bill is putting his finger on the point there, your Government

:46:53.:46:59.

is forcing this mayoral role down the throats of an electorate that

:47:00.:47:04.

has twice voted against it in a referendum in commentary, once in

:47:05.:47:06.

Birmingham, no wonder there is years of a low turnout? I am a great

:47:07.:47:13.

believer in the role. If we are going to have a combined authority,

:47:14.:47:16.

and in modern economies they work well when major metropolitan areas

:47:17.:47:21.

work together. We haven't had that in the West Midlands, we have lots

:47:22.:47:25.

of different authorities here, the idea is to bring them all together.

:47:26.:47:30.

I do think in Andy Street, the Conservative candidates, he is a

:47:31.:47:35.

strong candidates, he has brought the public and private sector

:47:36.:47:37.

together, he stood down as the boss of John Lewis, and he will bring

:47:38.:47:41.

those business skills together to manage the combined authority and do

:47:42.:47:46.

a great deal for the West Midlands. In an area like this, it is

:47:47.:47:50.

generally seen as Labour's election to lose. But if you do happen to

:47:51.:47:54.

lose it, and the poll suggested as a knife edge contest, that would be a

:47:55.:48:03.

serious blow to your party? I'm not convince we're going to lose. It is

:48:04.:48:08.

an unusual collection because it's a second-preference system, no one

:48:09.:48:11.

knows how that will work in this kind of setting. It could be the

:48:12.:48:18.

least worst alternative? The second-preference system distorts

:48:19.:48:22.

boating, that is a fact. I think in Sion Simon we have someone who will

:48:23.:48:25.

stand up for the area. After what the Government has done to

:48:26.:48:28.

Birmingham and the West Midlands, that's what we need. We saw Sion in

:48:29.:48:36.

action over the apprenticeship contracts. That is someone who will

:48:37.:48:41.

speak up immediately. Andy's nice enough guy, but we hear everything

:48:42.:48:46.

over John Lewis, if yeah so good, how come we end up in a situation

:48:47.:48:50.

where they are posting their lowest profits in the year he leaves? This

:48:51.:48:54.

is a conversation about the mayor not the business performance of... I

:48:55.:49:01.

didn't raise it, he did! The fact is there are lots of things in

:49:02.:49:06.

apprenticeships, also housing, transport, economic development,

:49:07.:49:10.

whether it is a role, surely, beyond what anyone local authority can do

:49:11.:49:14.

in its patch, but closer to the people than Westminster and

:49:15.:49:18.

Whitehall are. So, frankly, you should welcome these devolved

:49:19.:49:23.

powers? I welcome Paris coming away from Whitehall, absolutely. One of

:49:24.:49:26.

the main things I believe in politics is bringing power closer to

:49:27.:49:31.

the people, and it amusing to hear that Sion Simon is using this take

:49:32.:49:36.

back control line. He says he had at first. He should have copyrighted

:49:37.:49:42.

it. This scheme is absolutely not the right scheme. Nobody really

:49:43.:49:46.

knows what's got into it, it costs a lot of money, and everyone

:49:47.:49:53.

speculating, who knows. The mayor is responsible, the buck stops with the

:49:54.:49:57.

guy who selected. People ask me why am supporting a mayor, when it's

:49:58.:50:04.

bound to be a Labour mayor, given the electorate. We have a candidate

:50:05.:50:09.

looking to work hard. The Liberal Democrat candidate promised an end,

:50:10.:50:13.

if she's elected, to politics as usual. Is that every approach to the

:50:14.:50:18.

record of both your parties in Government? In terms of the raw deal

:50:19.:50:23.

that both Mr Simon and Mr Street say as had under the pair of you? They

:50:24.:50:30.

are the party that went into coalition the minute they had an

:50:31.:50:34.

opportunity, not an end to politics as usual there are! They said they

:50:35.:50:39.

won't go into collagen at this time. They made a pledge the last time.

:50:40.:50:41.

And we just can't get too much of a good thing.

:50:42.:50:44.

Because on the same day as that mayoral contest,

:50:45.:50:46.

polling will also be taking place in our Shire counties -

:50:47.:50:49.

across Worcestershire, Gloucestershire, Shropshire,

:50:50.:50:50.

In what's bound to be seen as a dress rehearsal

:50:51.:50:53.

for the main event in June, Warwickshire has no party

:50:54.:50:56.

Our political reporter Sian Grzeszczyk says

:50:57.:51:01.

the Conservatives are vying for power with Labour.

:51:02.:51:05.

The battle for Warwickshire is well and truly on.

:51:06.:51:07.

And whilst the candidates won't be donning suits of armour,

:51:08.:51:10.

they know it's all to play for in the fight

:51:11.:51:12.

It's probably the last thing they're thinking about in a place

:51:13.:51:17.

like Warwick Castle, but how aware are voters

:51:18.:51:20.

that this local election is even taking place

:51:21.:51:23.

after Theresa May's surprise announcement?

:51:24.:51:26.

We're more aware that there's a local election.

:51:27.:51:28.

I don't think anyone really knew about it until the

:51:29.:51:31.

I think the bigger, national issues will play on our minds more.

:51:32.:51:40.

And I think we'll just drift through the local

:51:41.:51:42.

I do think that the local elections are just going to get

:51:43.:51:46.

The Conservatives are the largest party at Warwickshire

:51:47.:51:48.

But the council is under no overall control.

:51:49.:51:53.

whilst the Liberal Democrats have nine.

:51:54.:51:58.

The Green Party have two members, and there are also two independents.

:51:59.:52:03.

The Conservative leader is confident they will take back

:52:04.:52:08.

control of Shire Hall, and had this message for voters.

:52:09.:52:11.

I absolutely believe that the local council should be that safety net

:52:12.:52:16.

for people in hard times, who are vulnerable.

:52:17.:52:19.

So we believe that we should be looking to the future,

:52:20.:52:24.

investing in Warwickshire, building support for our workforce

:52:25.:52:28.

within Warwickshire, but being that catchall

:52:29.:52:31.

But heading north to Nuneaton, the county's Labour leader

:52:32.:52:36.

also has her eyes on the prize, despite depressing

:52:37.:52:39.

I can't deny it is a very tough time for Labour.

:52:40.:52:45.

But it's down to people like me, Labour Party people,

:52:46.:52:47.

You think you can take control of Shire Hall?

:52:48.:52:52.

I think we can win this election, because think some of the services

:52:53.:52:55.

that have being chopped over the years by the Conservative

:52:56.:53:00.

administration really need to be reinvented or made better

:53:01.:53:03.

Meanwhile, back at Warwick Castle, the Liberal Democrats are hoping

:53:04.:53:08.

this will be a real opportunity to hold onto the seats they have and

:53:09.:53:11.

People are being quite welcoming on the door,

:53:12.:53:18.

and we're already seeing locally, on our membership lists,

:53:19.:53:20.

We'll continue going forward around the position of children

:53:21.:53:25.

and families as an area which I think we need

:53:26.:53:29.

to because concentrating more, and that's children's

:53:30.:53:31.

It certainly doesn't seem to be performing correctly,

:53:32.:53:34.

The Green Party has had two councillors for the last four years,

:53:35.:53:39.

so what's their game plan this time around?

:53:40.:53:42.

Very much getting more seats in the county council.

:53:43.:53:45.

It would make a massive difference in our particular patches.

:53:46.:53:50.

And also, generally, at the county council,

:53:51.:53:52.

The contest for the county council certainly won't involve

:53:53.:54:12.

but the parties know what's at stake here,

:54:13.:54:15.

and they're running out of time in the fight for victory.

:54:16.:54:18.

She just about resisted the temptation to join in there. Also

:54:19.:54:24.

fielding candidates in Warwickshire are Ukip, the Socialist Coalition

:54:25.:54:31.

and associated Independent candidates. Your Government has been

:54:32.:54:37.

forced to take ?92.4 million out of the budget, and the leader of the

:54:38.:54:43.

council from your party has had a few things to say about that. So

:54:44.:54:46.

both nationally and locally, doesn't give your party and easy record to

:54:47.:54:54.

defend there? There is a lot of fun is to go into social care, and the

:54:55.:54:59.

additional to present that has been added to council tax bills does go

:55:00.:55:05.

to those bills. The budget at Warwickshire was agreed by the

:55:06.:55:09.

Labour group, interestingly, it was a joint budget presented by the

:55:10.:55:12.

Conservatives and accepted by Labour. So they recognise the good

:55:13.:55:17.

work the Conservatives are doing in getting services delivered. It is

:55:18.:55:20.

about making is your we get more for less, and councils have been adept

:55:21.:55:24.

at doing that in recent years. So it's all your fault in Warwickshire,

:55:25.:55:31.

Steve? So the anti-austerities of agenda that your party has been

:55:32.:55:36.

pushing during seven years of Conservative-led Government simply

:55:37.:55:38.

isn't cutting the mustard with the electorate, and the polls do back

:55:39.:55:44.

that up? This is a set of elections taking place and mostly Tory-held

:55:45.:55:47.

rural England. It will be interesting to see, and something

:55:48.:55:53.

that your viewers picked up in the film, how confusing will it be

:55:54.:55:55.

having a general election at the same time. How much impact that had?

:55:56.:56:02.

I think the bottom line for these elections is just what level of cuts

:56:03.:56:08.

can you sustain. And, actually, we saw that Tory councils have been

:56:09.:56:12.

trying to do secret, back door deals, because they can't sustain

:56:13.:56:17.

it. So from a to come here and kid on that a Tory budgets, who is the

:56:18.:56:18.

kidding? We have seen examples of kidding? We have seen examples of

:56:19.:56:25.

where Steve is coming from? Certainly councils of how to make

:56:26.:56:28.

difficult decisions, but the Government recognises that an ageing

:56:29.:56:31.

population needs more resources going into that sector. And that has

:56:32.:56:38.

happened. I mention that Ukip are among the parties fielding

:56:39.:56:41.

candidates. If you are to be taken serious eye as a national party,

:56:42.:56:44.

worry all the fighting 17 seats, one in three? The point is these

:56:45.:56:51.

elections are, in the shires, where in the past, when we ran before...

:56:52.:56:56.

You're a national party, you told me you are a party for everybody? We

:56:57.:57:02.

got it everywhere. Not much in Warwickshire. People going to go out

:57:03.:57:07.

there and campaign on the issues rather than party politics, because

:57:08.:57:11.

it should be about the local issues of the area. I'm cancel myself as

:57:12.:57:15.

well as an MEP, and we see doesn't matter what colour rosette you have

:57:16.:57:20.

on as long as you engage in the local issues, people support you.

:57:21.:57:23.

I'm confidently people standing there that they will acquit

:57:24.:57:27.

themselves very well for Ukip in the local people. Your colleague

:57:28.:57:33.

standing to become an MP, will you think of doing so yourself? I have

:57:34.:57:39.

submitted my name to be considered. I would like to fight the battle in

:57:40.:57:46.

Dudley North. Final thoughts from you, Steve, in Nuneaton,

:57:47.:57:52.

Warwickshire and Leamington, Rugby, even if you're going to have a hope,

:57:53.:57:57.

given Scotland and Upton of labour there, these are the ambitious

:57:58.:58:02.

targets you have two set -- meltdown of labour there. I haven't pretended

:58:03.:58:08.

this is going to be really tough, and I think this election is about

:58:09.:58:13.

saying to people, do not give her a massive majority and carte blanche

:58:14.:58:15.

to do whatever she likes. Because you do, you will the day. There are

:58:16.:58:25.

other areas where I think Steve... At ago thanks to you, Bill, for

:58:26.:58:27.

being with us. Let's catch up now with the rest

:58:28.:58:29.

of the political developments that have made the news here,

:58:30.:58:32.

during yet another Our round-up in 60 seconds

:58:33.:58:34.

is brought to us today Jeremy Corbyn was in Birmingham

:58:35.:58:37.

on Tuesday to make a local election announcement

:58:38.:58:43.

about carers' allowances. Just as the PM was poised to make

:58:44.:58:45.

that snap general election call. Not everyone wants

:58:46.:58:48.

an election though. Paul Farrelly was one of only 13 MPs

:58:49.:58:51.

to vote against a snap poll. Could it be because his

:58:52.:58:57.

Newcastle-under-Lyme seat is the region's

:58:58.:59:01.

top conservative target? Labour's Rob Marris is to stand down

:59:02.:59:04.

at the general election, just two years after making a return

:59:05.:59:07.

to Parliament And, after 20 years as Labour MP

:59:08.:59:09.

for Edgbaston, the former Health Minister and Vote Leave

:59:10.:59:13.

co-chairman Gisela Stuart I shall be on the campaign

:59:14.:59:17.

trail, but I shall not be So can I thank you and everyone here

:59:18.:59:22.

for the 20 years of a privilege. He was re-elected as the leader

:59:23.:59:28.

of Unite, defeating the union's West Midlands regional secretary,

:59:29.:59:32.

Gerard Coyne, after a bitter battle. A bitter battle, which to remind

:59:33.:59:51.

you, was also seen as a proxy battle over trying to stop Jeremy Corbyn

:59:52.:59:54.

leading Labour into the next election. To that went to plan them,

:59:55.:00:00.

didn't it, Steve? I would say that battle was a moral victory for

:00:01.:00:04.

Gerald Coyne, and the behaviour of Len McCluskey and suspended him is

:00:05.:00:08.

something you would associate with North Korea. It's total disgrace.

:00:09.:00:14.

What they need to be concerned about is turnout, 12 present members took

:00:15.:00:18.

part, that's not a massive mandate for anybody. We need that across a

:00:19.:00:26.

democratic system. The Tories want to tighten up on union ballots,

:00:27.:00:33.

briefly, if you would? The problem is the level of participation, but

:00:34.:00:36.

had to make it easier for people to vote, not to try and a train wreck

:00:37.:00:40.

the outcome. If the Tories are serious about reaching out to

:00:41.:00:44.

ordinary people, you have to take an interest in union politics. Yes,

:00:45.:00:48.

union people and now supporting Conservatives.

:00:49.:00:49.

My thanks to Steve McCabe and Mark Pawsey.

:00:50.:00:51.

Finally from me, a reminder that the last of our metro mayoral

:00:52.:00:54.

debates is coming up on Thursday, by which time there'll be exactly

:00:55.:00:57.

Hosted by Paul Franks, again with all six candidates,

:00:58.:01:01.

it's live on BBC West Midlands 95.6 from 7pm in the evening.

:01:02.:01:04.

This though is where we rejoin Andrew Neil.

:01:05.:01:08.

on issues like the NHS. Run out of time. Andrew, back to you.

:01:09.:01:17.

Now, Ukip have made their first significant policy announcement

:01:18.:01:23.

of the election campaign today with a call for a ban on wearing

:01:24.:01:29.

But is it a policy that will meet with the approval of the man

:01:30.:01:35.

who bankrolled the party's last general election campaign?

:01:36.:01:37.

Hello, Andrew. Let me see if I can clarify some things, are you a

:01:38.:01:44.

member of Ukip? I a patron of Ukip so I don't stop being a member. So

:01:45.:01:51.

you are still a member? I am, apparently for life. Are you still

:01:52.:01:55.

hoping to bankroll Ukip? Not at the moment. Why is that? The internal

:01:56.:02:01.

problems we have had in Ukip have been aired, and a lot needs to

:02:02.:02:06.

happen in the party in terms of professionalising it and I think it

:02:07.:02:10.

is ill-prepared for this general election. Are you going to run in

:02:11.:02:15.

Clacton? I will be if selected. For Ukip? Yes. Have you been to Clacton?

:02:16.:02:23.

I've been with Nigel Mansell on the campaign. You will run for a

:02:24.:02:26.

constituency you've only been in once? Yes, why does that surprise

:02:27.:02:33.

you? You know nothing about it. I've just recently decided to become the

:02:34.:02:37.

candidate there. Did you know where it is? Of course I do, your piece

:02:38.:02:41.

the other night was completely wrong. I said I knew where it was

:02:42.:02:45.

but I didn't know much about it. Maybe the people of Clacton will

:02:46.:02:52.

regard you as a carpetbagger? Why? Because you have never been there.

:02:53.:02:58.

Most politicians are carpetbaggers and I will be there for the right

:02:59.:03:02.

reasons. I thought it was because of your visceral hatred of Douglas

:03:03.:03:08.

Carswell. He only lasted 24 hours after I announced my candidacy so we

:03:09.:03:11.

will see what happens. The main thing I am going to Clacton on

:03:12.:03:14.

Monday to meet the Ukip councillors, see what the issues are and see if

:03:15.:03:18.

they want me as a candidate. They may not want me. Who do you think

:03:19.:03:24.

you will be up against? The potential Conservative candidate.

:03:25.:03:30.

Who in Ukip? I don't suppose anyone in Ukip will stand against me, I

:03:31.:03:35.

wouldn't have thought. Really? I would have thought. Money talks! Why

:03:36.:03:43.

do you say that? You talked about having a pirate radio station to

:03:44.:03:46.

blast into Clacton so it is not covered by the election rules.

:03:47.:03:49.

You've been talking about financing a sort of right-wing Momentum

:03:50.:03:55.

movement. I just wonder, has politics now just become a

:03:56.:03:59.

Richmond's hobby? From my perspective the reason I'm

:04:00.:04:02.

interested in it is if you have looked at what has happened in the

:04:03.:04:05.

country, it's clear the Conservatives will have a massive

:04:06.:04:10.

majority. -- has politics become a rich man's hobby. Only putting up

:04:11.:04:16.

candidates not against Brexit MPs. Is Ukip over? I don't think so. The

:04:17.:04:23.

electoral maths is interesting because first-past-the-post

:04:24.:04:25.

effectively could help Ukip in this example. Ukip got one MP with 4

:04:26.:04:35.

million votes. What we are seeing is the total collapse of Labour. In

:04:36.:04:39.

that situation there are certain seats up north in Hartlepool and

:04:40.:04:42.

other seats like that, the total collapse of the Labour Party could

:04:43.:04:46.

help Ukip to win a few seats. Is Ukip over? It looks that way, yes.

:04:47.:04:52.

They haven't made much of a dent in Labour's vote in the north, they

:04:53.:04:55.

don't really have a defining issue anymore and all the polls we have

:04:56.:04:59.

seen published since the election was called show Ukip vote is going

:05:00.:05:04.

to the Conservatives. Is Ukip over? It always happens when the

:05:05.:05:08.

Conservative Party goes far to the right, really hard Brexit, there is

:05:09.:05:12.

no space for BMP, Ukip and all of that. Are you associating the BNP

:05:13.:05:19.

with Ukip? Or that, movements to the right of the Conservatives get eaten

:05:20.:05:22.

up one the Conservatives move as far right as Theresa May has done. I

:05:23.:05:27.

think what your enterprise shows is how it's really time to reform

:05:28.:05:32.

funding of political parties. It is disgraceful that very rich people

:05:33.:05:37.

can move in and bankroll the Brexit campaigned to the extent that they

:05:38.:05:41.

did. We need proper state funding of parties. The union is bankrolling

:05:42.:05:47.

Labour. I assume the reform would include trade unions? Indeed. Ukip

:05:48.:05:55.

has lost its talisman in Nigel Farage, it was a one-man party, I

:05:56.:05:58.

have to say, people like Tim. Having voted for Brexit its reason to be

:05:59.:06:04.

has gone. It will still take votes from Labour and the Conservatives

:06:05.:06:07.

but probably only from the don't knows. There are seats in certain

:06:08.:06:11.

places where if enough Tories back Ukip dated when. Hartlepool is an

:06:12.:06:17.

example. Were the Tories will never win. The demise of Ukip has been

:06:18.:06:20.

forecasted many times before but I don't see a Tory candidate winning

:06:21.:06:24.

in a place like Hartlepool. So we could see, and I think we will see,

:06:25.:06:29.

the total collapse of the Labour vote. We shall see. The leader of

:06:30.:06:33.

the party of which you say you are still a patron, Paul Nuttall, said

:06:34.:06:37.

he would ban the Burcea and the niqab in public, what is your view?

:06:38.:06:46.

-- the niqab and the Burcea? I'm not in agreement with that. If it is a

:06:47.:06:50.

security issue at airports or public transport it could be acceptable but

:06:51.:06:54.

I'm not in favour of curtailing people's writes. You have gone

:06:55.:06:57.

further than him, haven't you? You tweeted you wanted to ban Muslim

:06:58.:07:02.

immigration. In my view the problem we have had with the lack of

:07:03.:07:05.

integration in certain communities has come about through mass

:07:06.:07:09.

open-door immigration. If you are a must win you wouldn't be allowed in?

:07:10.:07:13.

What I said in the tweet was I think they should be a ban on

:07:14.:07:18.

immigration... You said Muslim immigration. That's what I believe.

:07:19.:07:24.

If you are a world famous doctor coming to help one of our big

:07:25.:07:27.

teaching hospitals in this country because you are a Muslim you could

:07:28.:07:31.

not get in? We have to start somewhere, there are huge problems

:07:32.:07:34.

in areas where 20% of the population don't speak the language, they

:07:35.:07:39.

haven't integrated. You should read the rest of the tweet, it is control

:07:40.:07:45.

of immigration from a 10-year ban on unskilled immigration. The first

:07:46.:07:49.

thing you said was to ban Muslim immigration, it is in black and

:07:50.:07:52.

white. I have said that, I do not dispute that. I was questioning

:07:53.:07:56.

that. There is my answer, you cannot tell somebody's will adjust freedoms

:07:57.:08:01.

but what you can do is stop adding to the problem. Doesn't that sound a

:08:02.:08:06.

bit like the BNP? It's as like BNP and like Trump. Its, we hate

:08:07.:08:10.

Muslims, fine, if that is what you are standing for, that is clear. The

:08:11.:08:15.

final word is we have had open-door mass immigration from the

:08:16.:08:17.

Conservative Party, we've had it from the Labour Party and its fine

:08:18.:08:20.

if you are in north London to say these things, if you live in Oldham

:08:21.:08:25.

and your community has been radically changed and you have a

:08:26.:08:28.

whole population not integrating in, not speaking the language, something

:08:29.:08:32.

has got to be done. We had better leave it there. Thank you for coming

:08:33.:08:37.

in. I am en route to Clacton. We will see how you get on there.

:08:38.:08:39.

Now, Lib Dem leader Tim Farron was on TV earlier today

:08:40.:08:41.

and he was asked again about an issue that he's been

:08:42.:08:44.

asked about repeatedly - his attitude to homosexuality.

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when they asked you whether gay sex was a sin.

:08:47.:08:56.

Come on, Robert, I've been asked this question loads

:08:57.:08:58.

few days and I have been clear, even in the House of Commons,

:08:59.:09:02.

It's possible I'm not the only person getting tired

:09:03.:09:12.

Probably, but then why don't you just close it down?

:09:13.:09:16.

Toby Young, why does he get into such a mess over this? I mean, he is

:09:17.:09:28.

leader of the Liberal Democrats. Its 2017. I guess the reason he keeps

:09:29.:09:32.

refusing to answer that question is because what the implication is that

:09:33.:09:36.

he does think that homosexual acts are sinful, and he cannot bring

:09:37.:09:43.

himself not to say that, or to say what Robert Peston and others want

:09:44.:09:47.

him to say because he is an evangelical Christian who converted

:09:48.:09:51.

at the age of 20, 21, and clearly he really struggles with this issue and

:09:52.:09:54.

I think it will be really difficult for the Lib Dems to promote, or even

:09:55.:09:58.

Lib Dem candidates like Vince Cable, to promote the idea of the

:09:59.:10:01.

Progressive Alliance even though Tim has ruled it out, if he is not

:10:02.:10:05.

prepared to say I don't think homosexual acts are sinful. What is

:10:06.:10:14.

your view? It is disastrous if that is what he really thinks but Preston

:10:15.:10:17.

did not push the hard. I'm not sure he understood the difference about

:10:18.:10:19.

the question between gay sex and being gay. I think he just thought

:10:20.:10:22.

he was going on saying I'm not anti-gay. He needs to command

:10:23.:10:26.

immediately and clarify it. If you are right and he does actually think

:10:27.:10:31.

it is a sin he is in real trouble. There is a slight parallel with what

:10:32.:10:34.

police said before about Jeremy Corbyn, how his unilateral nuclear

:10:35.:10:38.

policy would appeal to the hard core of the left. The problem for Tim

:10:39.:10:43.

Farron with what he is saying here, while he is an evangelical

:10:44.:10:48.

Christian, this will not appeal to traditional Liberal Democrats. An

:10:49.:10:55.

LGBT community member cannot possibly vote for an MP who believes

:10:56.:11:00.

that a sexual act between homosexuals is sinful. He has not

:11:01.:11:03.

made that clear. Of course, he wants to stop Brexit as well so he is

:11:04.:11:07.

neither liberal nor democratic. He will have seven weeks to make it

:11:08.:11:10.

clear because I am sure he will be asked again. We have the chairman of

:11:11.:11:15.

the Conservative Party on earlier, Polly. An important figure for the

:11:16.:11:20.

Tory campaign. What did you make of what he said? I don't think he will

:11:21.:11:24.

have him on very often, he didn't do brilliantly. I think they will bring

:11:25.:11:28.

back chemical Ali, Michael Fallon, he can say anything with a straight

:11:29.:11:33.

face, he can say black is white. Michael Fallon, chemical Ali? Why do

:11:34.:11:38.

you say that? He can absolutely say black is white. For instance if you

:11:39.:11:44.

look back at what he said, you challenged him about the energy

:11:45.:11:50.

policy, when Ed Miliband came out with it, he said any kind of freeze

:11:51.:11:55.

would stop investment, the lights will go out. You have him on, he

:11:56.:11:59.

will say the exact opposite. He is magic at that. But I don't think

:12:00.:12:05.

your guy today was up to the job. If Michael Fallon was chemical Ali, or

:12:06.:12:12.

we should say chemical Fally, Patrick was more like comical Ali.

:12:13.:12:18.

The whole Iraq war is rushing back at me. He is the warm up comedian,

:12:19.:12:23.

there is another six weeks to go, just getting things started. What

:12:24.:12:27.

did you think? I don't think he was too bad, it was difficult for him to

:12:28.:12:31.

say exactly what was in the 2050 manifesto is going to be replicated

:12:32.:12:35.

in the Conservatives' manifesto during this general election, he

:12:36.:12:38.

doesn't want to be seen rowing back on stuff but on the other hand I

:12:39.:12:41.

don't think he can conceal the fact they will be far fewer commitments

:12:42.:12:45.

in this Conservative manifesto than in the last one, as you and I know,

:12:46.:12:49.

it was full of rash promises last time because they thought they would

:12:50.:12:58.

have to trade a lot of them away in the negotiations with the Liberal

:12:59.:13:00.

Democrats to form a second coalition so they are saddled with policies

:13:01.:13:02.

they don't particularly want to be hemmed in by. The forthcoming

:13:03.:13:04.

Conservative manifesto will be much lighter and shorter with fewer

:13:05.:13:07.

commitments. Different? Some stuff jumped from the 2050 manifesto? I

:13:08.:13:11.

think so but we will see a commitment to run schools to

:13:12.:13:14.

overcome that hurdle in the next parliament and I don't think, in

:13:15.:13:17.

spite of what you think, Polly, that it will be a hard tack to the right.

:13:18.:13:22.

I think if anything the mood music of the Conservative manifesto will

:13:23.:13:27.

be a centrist inclusive one. The mood music will be because the

:13:28.:13:31.

specifics would be there. She is good at saying governing for

:13:32.:13:34.

everybody and the many and not the few but when you look at the hard

:13:35.:13:38.

facts of what her and Hammond's budget looks like, you look at her

:13:39.:13:41.

hard Brexit, it's a very different story. Or that, the music has

:13:42.:13:49.

stopped for this week! Thank you. I will be back next week at the normal

:13:50.:13:56.

time of 11am on Sunday morning. On BBC One The Daily Politics is back

:13:57.:14:00.

at midday tomorrow and we will be on every day next week on BBC Two.

:14:01.:14:04.

Remember, if it's Sunday, it is The Sunday Politics.

:14:05.:14:34.

There'll be a couple of hours of just fantastic music, really,

:14:35.:14:37.

all the Ella classics, as well as some very special guests,

:14:38.:14:40.

we have Mica Paris, Imelda May, Dame Cleo Laine

:14:41.:14:43.

'There's a side to Rory that the public doesn't see.

:14:44.:14:48.

'Rory has suspected for some time that he may have ADHD.

:14:49.:14:52.

Here we have the first hydrogen bomb that went into service with

:14:53.:15:01.

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