23/09/2012 Sunday Politics West

Sunday Politics in the West... Marks men are taking aim at

hundreds of people but is the culling right. And we take on three

Apology for the loss of subtitles for 2008 seconds

Welcome to Sunday Politics in the West. As the marksmen take aim, the

protesters are trying to stop them, could we be in very taste of the

Wild West? More on that later but first I will introduce you to a

couple of townies that are our guests this morning. Welcome to you

both. I hope you had a good summer. This has been the week of the

political apology with Nick Clegg. Is there anything you would like to

apologise for or should politicians say sorry in addition to Nick

Clegg? They should put their hands up and admit when they were wrong,

as long as they are sincere and it is not just said for their benefit.

But in Parliament this week we have the Hillsborough inquiry report,

and David Cameron issued what he said was a double apology for the

fact that it happened in the first place and that they had been a

cover-up. It is very rare that I am impressed by him. The other

encasing was the Bloody Sunday Inquiry and on dedications he

handled it well. -- occasion. Sometimes an apology can take so

long that the people that are given it cannot really take it sincerely.

Tony Blair apologised about the Irish famine for example. And

politicians apologise for mistakes made by predecessors. But in terms

of this week, he has made it in a short period of time and he was

right to do that. The Liberal Democrats are first or should I say

is sorry party. Nick Clegg's apology attracted some attention.

But the musical version online has been a massive hit. For I'm sorry,

I'm sorry. I'm so, so, sorry. There is no easy way to say it, I'm sorry,

I'm sorry. I'm sorry, I'm sorry. I'm so, so, Surrey. There's no easy

way to said. I'm sorry, I'm sorry. We will hold our hands up...

are they singing from the same hymn sheet? Stephen abstained on the

issue and if you thought people had forgotten about it, the world has

been reminded. Once it was a mighty West Country fought for the Liberal

Democrats but some people think their days are numbered. We went to

see Nick Clegg and asked him why he was sorry. It was a mistake and it

was wrong and we shouldn't have done it. About tuition fees?

made a pledge against tuition fee rises under any circumstances which

we could not and did not do. But what we did do was that in the

circumstances, Labour had introduced tuition fees and top up

fees despite saying that they would not, we have, we have asked

students to have higher fees but in return, have a much more generous

form of repayment. It is worth remembering that if you were at

university last year, you start repaying these fees when you start

earning �15,000. Under the new system designed by Vince Cable and

David Willetts, you start paying at a much higher level of earnings. We

will never accept a word of apology about the other issue. I tried to

be totally upfront. But it could hurt you, could it? All of the

seats that you hold. The way that they are pain will be more

affordable. Actually, the money will go out of your account, week

in and week out, it will be less than the money that is coming out

of your account under the present system. That is not of course in

any way an excuse for making a pledge which we cannot stick to

which I have apologised for. But it is important that people understand

the reality of the system that has been introduced. It is different to

the allegations made about it. Other things have heard you in the

opinion polls. We have got one coming out in November. It has been

said that your best prospects are in the West Country. The Oval and

Somerset Police Commissioner and the Bristol may have. -- the Oval

and Somerset Police Commissioner. Do you agree they are your best

prospects? We are all is the very strong as a party with a great

reputation for a local service in Bristol and in Somerset and Avon.

We will contest the mayoral election and the police and crime

Commission election very vigorously indeed. It will be up for the

candidates... Do you think you can win? If you look at our platform

for the elections, people, whatever they think about what has happened

in the past couple of years with the difficult decisions, will

recognise that the Liberal Democrats are committed to Bristol,

Somerset and Avon in a way that no other party has been. You have got

a Wiltshire MP that has just been appointed to the parliamentary

private secretary position we have been told that a previous

parliamentary private secretary was very affectionate. We are not quite

as affectionate as that. I do not need that for the job that I am

enjoying and am privileged to do but I am a huge admirer of drunken

haze. I think he will be an Nick Clegg talking to Paul Barltrop.

Did you know that he was going to say sorry? Yes, he told MPs on

Monday that he was going to do that in the run-up to the conference

season. It came as a surprise but I am glad that he has done it. If he

had done that last year, I do not think anybody would have listened

because the anger was quite raw and this was probably the best time.

lot of people had forgotten about it and it is ancient history and

now he has reminded everybody and you represent a lot of students.

But the anger has faded and that is the right time for him to make an

apology for something we should not have done at the last general

election. I am sorry for my role as well. You abstained. It yes. It was

a situation where you promised the earth because he did not think that

you were going to be in power. have been quite candid about this

in the run-up to the election. I think that we should have either

dropped completely or amended that pledge that we made about tuition

fees to make it more realistic but we lost that argument inside the

party. We tried to behave like a pressure group and not a political

party. It is back on the agenda. Should Labour apologise for

introducing tuition fees in the first place? We should have an

element of students meeting the cost of their education. We are

exploring options but we were against the tripling of the tuition

fees. It was perfectly obvious to people. It was obvious it could not

be afforded. I understand that Stephen did fight the case and he

was aware it was going to be difficult, but he still put on his

literature, may tuition fees. -- not to have tuition fees. They were

feeling that they could have made these promises because they did not

think they were going to be held accountable. Could you ever worked

together? You have got your own Coalition with the Tories. Could

you see a pact with the Liberal Democrats and Labour? One of our

concerns is that we get this era of Coalition politics and the Liberal

Democrats are bouncing backwards and forwards between the parties. I

do not think people will work with Nick Clegg. That is because of the

extent to which he has supported a very draconian Tory government

economic plan. I have got people coming into my surgery affected by

the Cup's all of the time. You have DUP -- the cuts. What the Tory

government is doing with the help of the Liberal Democrats is

stifling economic growth. We need that to be able to look for things.

Lots to talk about because it is not just the Liberal Democrats

getting ready for the conference this weekend. UKIP have met for two

days in Birmingham, encouraged by what is happening in Europe. But it

is back home that they need to make more progress. UKIP are smiling.

European troubles have brought a surge in membership, including some

people defecting in councils. The local party proudly paraded two for

the Conservatives in South Gloucestershire, but they have got

a tough battle in local elections. That might explain why UKIP have

not come up with candidates for the West's next big contests for the

mayoral elections and the police and crime Commissioner election. He

said he will not tolerate that. will be disappointed if we did not

come up with good candidates for Police crime Commissioner. All I

can tell you is that the other parts of the country I have been

too, we are finding candidates and good candidates and we intend to

fight a proper campaign. I will be talking to UKIP South West this

weekend. The European Parliament is where they have fared well

electorally. Especially this MP. it will now move to the next

speaker... He is wonderful, he has great vigour and in the European

Parliament, more than any other member, he is thoroughly enjoying

what he is doing and he is relishing the idea in 2014 in the

West Country, topping the opinion polls. His strategy is Clare. To

advance elections at the expense of Joining us is the chairman of

Bristol West Conservatives. Welcome to the programme. How much of a

threat is UKIP to the Tories at the moment? UKIP remains a protest vote

and a minority division macro and will always be that way. -- vote.

We need Europe and they need us. One not do a deal with them?

terms of fielding candidates? because otherwise they will split

your vote. What we must did before we consider that is make our

position clear on Europe. We do need Europe in some form or other.

We cannot just be saying, should we be in or out of Europe. Why are so

many members of your party hung up about Europe? Why does it get such

passion? That is a very interesting question. In all honesty, I am not

sure. Do you agree with it? Europe is not really and area of expertise

for me. -- an area. It is complicated. It is not. They hate

Europe. I think people are keen that we do not drop our currency

and use the European currency. That is part of the hatred of the Union.

More to talk about later. What could be the biggest ever official

slaughter? Wild animals in Britain. Gloucestershire has got his licence

and Somerset's welcome in days but will culling badgers reduce TB in

cattle? We have had concerns about safety as police take on marksmen.

A time for action begins. This is what will soon be happening in West

Country fields. The BBC's Country File programme spoke to a marked

man that will be involved. He asked to be anonymous for fear of

becoming a target himself. I went on a detailed training course and

it was a very long day. The quality of the training I thought was very

good. It was a mixture of theory and practical sessions and I had to

complete an exam at the end. After that I had to go to a near the

place and do a shooting assessment. -- Another Place. These activists

have for months been seeking information about the coming and

have been outside government offices and are prepared to break

the law. It will be a challenge, said one former Chief Constable.

will work hard to make sure that it can be done lawfully. But it will

be very tricky. That is because of the complex legal situation and the

fact that people at once to sabotage Beagle for enterprise,

they will know when they can strike. -- the law for enterprise. -- legal

enterprise are. But will it turn I am joined by a farmer in favour

of the culling and our other guests are still here. Why do you want the

badgers shot? I think politicians have ducked this issue for too long

and the problem is getting worse. Have you lost animals on your farm?

Yes, over a number of years and last year in particular. It is

constant and at the moment we are not sure when it will get better.

The it must be heartbreaking as a farmer. But are you absolutely sure

that you can blame the badgers? think the evidence suggests that

they are part of the tuberculosis problem. It is not just them. We

have got other wildlife involved. But I think the scientists do think

that Thatcher's are the primary source of reinfection. -- badges. -

- these animals. The Conservatives are allowing this. As the party got

it right? I do not think they have. I do sympathise completely. This is

a big problem in this country. Not just for the likelihood of farmers

but for the taxpayer. It will cost �100 million every year. But

culling badgers, we understand through research that has been

conducted by the last government, it has been scientifically proven

that it cannot contribute to reducing TB in cattle. That was the

conclusion. But it said that if you kill them, T B will come back.

best outcome is a 10% reduction but then after nine years, you are

still spending �85 million. Your party wants to cull them and you do

not agree with it. You did not agree with it either, do you?

may well be a government policy for the Government department to go

ahead with. But I happen to disagree. I have written to

hundreds of people telling them that. I think what would make the

biggest difference is perhaps more control with the movement of cattle.

Not just exterminating badgers, we should be looking for a vaccine.

will come back to Kerry. We must deal with this issue. But also

vaccination programmes. They are happening across the West Country.

We have got scientific evidence which has suggested that culling

would be ineffective if it had any effect at all. But who should be

government been listening to? Quayside tests. David. --

scientists. David. We are responding to the report. We might

have a situation where the initial reduction in outbreaks is actually

improving. People often talk about between 12 and 16 % but if we look

at trial areas with the latest information, these numbers are

increasing. And B vaccination argument, what about that? Cowls or

badgers? Both. The problem is that if you vaccinate badgers that have

already got TB, you on not having any results at all. Cattle vaccine

is fine. But at the moment I do not think that you can go between a

vaccinated animal and one that has got proper tuberculosis until you

can differentiate, you are in a very difficult position. -- because

until you can differentiate. Why is this such a difficult issue? I have

raised this in Parliament for years and when the Government got elected

I was worried they were waiting for political opportunism to get away

with it. It was very clear the Minister wanted the culling to go

ahead but they had a big row about forests which derailed the issue

for a while. But I think now that the legal challenges have failed,

that is why public attention is back on this issue. But I think we

will have a big outcry that people do not want badgers killed. They

will be an outcry and saboteurs are threatening to get out onto the

field. Do you think it should go ahead? Yes, I think it should. It

is not the complete answer but we must start somewhere. This is the

first step. Thank you for coming in. Time to catch up on other political

stories making the headlines this Mr Speaker... Age has not held back

his 65-year-old MP from the Liberal Democrats. He made his first speech

this week as communities minister. It is good to see that experience

can triumph above youth. A after hours of debate, a decision about

how much the mayoral candidate should be paid has been deferred.

It has been a bit indecisive after failure to agree on whether it

should be 40,000, 65,000, or somewhere in between. And one of

the candidates, he is almost as red-faced as his trousers. He

called one city to Irish and has since apologised and he has been

criticised in a Twitter storm will stop a bunch of politically

motivated eight-month --. A bunch of politically motivated hate

mongers. This is local currency in Bristol, launched at this week.

Those Bristol pounds are very attractive. We can pick up on one

of those stories on Twitter with George Ferguson after this Irish

comment. You are one of the people that objected. It was just a

foolish thing to say. I was offended when he said that he

adored the Irish and that they were some of his best friends. But to

use that phrase a little bit Irish as a metaphor for something being a

bit stupid, we have gone on from that, surely. You made a comment

about people behaving selfishly on trains and somebody saying that

they wished he had not been born and nobody apologised about that.

It was obviously a joke but what he said, he uses that phrase as a

metaphor for something being a bit stupid. I think he made it worse by

then patronising the Irish as well. It is dangerous, Twitter, isn't it?

Kerry is more they stole wart on Twitter. But you have got to be

careful. -- is more experienced on Twitter. Sometimes you hear

comments about the Welsh more than that you would like and you can get

some abuse. Thank you very much. That is all we have got time for

today. Thank you to Kerry and Stephen for joining us. If you