13/01/2013 Sunday Politics West


Andrew Neil and David Garmston with the latest political news, interviews and debate. With Communities Secretary Eric Pickles.

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In the West - tensions over our top cops. The newly elected Police and


Crime Commissioners run into difficulties trying to appoint new


Apology for the loss of subtitles for 2536 seconds


Chief Constables. One even ends in Thank you Andrew. And welcome to


our first Sunday Politics in the west of 2013. This year has started


with a bang for one of the new Police and Crime Commissioners. Sue


Mountstevens ends up in the High Court after a bust up with the


Chief Constable on their first meeting. In a moment I will be


talking to the man who dreamt up the idea of police commissioners.


But here in our interrogation room I am joined by two likely suspects.


They are Ashley Fox for the Conservatives. And William


Dartmouth from UKIP. They are both Euro MPs representing this part of


the world. This week Honda announced plans to cut 800 jobs at


its Swindon plant, blaming weak demand across Europe. It's a blow


to jobs and the west's manufacturing industry. Ashley Fox


- the crisis in Europe seems to be the root of the problem. It shows


how we are in it together in Europe. And it also shows how the internal


market and single market are. Who knows whether on the would continue


to invest in the United Kingdom? This is disappointing news, but


hopefully, the British economy is healing, and these will see their


jobs return in the due course. The European economy is in the huge


mess, because the euro was put together so bad the. Would they


have even come to Swindon in the first place have not been in the


EU? And I think it is very clear that the answer is yes, because


there is other factors. There is the skilled workforce, and there is


the English language. The other thing is that the tariff wall


between continental Europe and the rest of the world is approximately


5%, been accepted in two categories, but where and textiles. -- footwear.


It is very important that Britain resits export efforts into the rest


of the world. We would talk more on Now to one of the biggest stories


of the week - the very public row between the new Police Commissioner


for Avon and Somerset and the Chief Constable. In their very first


meeting - they fell out - and the chief constable - Colin Port says


he was humiliated into retirement. It came to a head in the High Court


when Mr Port unsuccessfully tried to sue. Here's Paul Barltrop. It's


been a baptism of fire for Avon and Somerset's new police commissioner,


just seven weeks into the job. you responsible for the breakdown


of the relationship? The high court judge criticised her - but ruled


against the departing chief constable. Colin Port's barrister


argued he'd been "humiliated" by an "arbitary" decision by the new


Commissioner, and "unlawfully induced to retire". Which are


delighted that the High Court has decided that the commissioner's


decisions were lawful in every respect. Colin Port may appeal -


insisting it's vital for the position of all police chiefs.


clashes unprecedented, and does not bode well for the future. At the


same time, there has been strong criticism in the way the posts have


set up. One of those people had hoped to go for the job. When


Labour paraded their candidates for PCC last summer, they were proud of


Bob Ashford. Politically he'd served as councillor and mayor of


Frome in Somerset. Professionally he'd been a senior official


advising the government on youth justice. By a was cleared by the


Home Office, I was working on security sensitive information,


against extremism, for instance. was working with top government


officials. I could go to the meetings in Number Ten. I could


talk to anyone and be trusted. a childhood offence - trespassing


by a railway line with lads who had an air gun - meant he was barred


from standing. Other withdrawals followed, including Falklands War


veteran Simon Weston. The rules for becoming a PCC are stricter than


for police officers or MPs. He's joined forces with Bob Ashford to


launch a campaign called wipe the slate clean. I like to believe that


it is the law of a retentive consequences. I do not believe when


this was being legislated, they understood the full implications of


what they were doing. That is absolutely clear. The message that


has come from this legislation, which really must be undone, is


that regardless of how long ago you committed an offence, how mind of


that was, even if you have fully accepted the defence you have


committed, you can never be fully rehabilitated. He's disappointed


with the response he's had back from government. But the


controversies surrounding last year's PCC elections may be a lower


priority for ministers than the rows that have followed. Let's


cross to Westminster. We will talk to the architect of the police and


crime Commissioner role. You will want the job plans could set


commissioners and chief constables on a war footing. That happened


within a day in a firm and Somerset. Others warned that lots of things


could happen. 15th November was a terrible day. One -- this was


political vandalism. It would politicise the police. I think


since 15th November, very little has happened which in any way


damages the hopes people have for police and crime commissioners. Of


course, there are teething problems. The Chief Constable wants to


protect his own interests. It will now be settled, he may appeal, he


may not. But this is only a little local difficulty in the first few


months of an enormous change to present arrangements for policing


this country. We have lost a raft of experienced officers. I agree,


and I am sorry about this. I wish some of them have stayed on. Many


felt the threat to resign rather than serve on the PCCs would derail


the project. The Home Secretary made it clear from day one she


would proceed with this. She fought on despite terrible opposition from


all sides. It is now the law. I am sorry that some of the chief


constables, who are very able indeed, say, OK, fine, you've won.


There are large number of applicants for these vacant posts,


but... Bay are people who want to work their way up the greasy pole.


Most MPs are running their forces anyway! I am not worried at all. It


is a change that was very much resisted by the Commission in early


days. I am sorry to leave some officers experience. We have not


run out of talent. Yours so what does briefly that voters would


ignore the elections, and most did. Yes. I said it was very difficult


for people to appreciate the full significance of these elections,


and perhaps we did not get the message across. Perhaps people were


not conscious enough of what was happening for a number of reasons.


Elections in November. The turnout was disappointingly low. But I


think you will find that if we had more elections next year, I am very


encouraged by the way the new posts have come about. Let's tell talk to


You have fallen out with your own crime panel. What has happened


there? They are a upset about the process. We will be meeting them on


Monday. There was a fair and open process. What happened there? While


they are upset with you? They her do it via the media rather than


through me. Were to do not tell them first? I did. I told them with


a message on their answer phone. We have to confirm the employment on


Monday. I know that. It is bad that I did not Britain before hand. I am


sorry. They could be so you're appointment. -- the tone your


appointment. I think the place to do this is on Monday. In front of


the panel. We can deal with it then. I don't quite understand the FA.


There's bring in our other guests. UKIP did not put anyone up for


elections. On the contrary, we put up 24 candidates. We did not put


any up in the area where you were elected. I must congratulate you


for getting in as an independent. We were disappointed with the


politicisation of the police. Many of these people are put in by


establishment political parties. We just heard from the Pier. He is a


good salesman. It is an unconvincing rationale for what has


happened. I think the whole thing of Police Commissioner --


commissioners is her jolly bad idea. If -- what we have bought a police


off -- police authority he was enormous. No one knew who they were.


This will make a marginal step forward in accountability.


million was the cost of the elections. Was that money well


spent? Or I think it was. Over the decades ahead, we will seek things


improve. If you like what the commission it does, you can like


him, and if you don't, you couldn't. I think this is a good reform.


I think it is. It is a wonderful opportunity to do that. There will


be things coming out in the wash. There will be early disagreements.


But this is not a bad reform. problem was is that no one knew who


you were, and there was no budget put out election material which


explains the low turnout. You just have to work hard. People in


Gloucestershire know I work very hard. I was out and about. They


know who I am. I did it with my own funds and no donations. It was a


good fight, and I've won, and now they have to put up with me for 3


1/2 years, and see how I am going to do. I am going to do a good job.


Are you convince your post will not be overturn next week? Let's hope


the panel -- let's hear what the panel has to say. Other selected as


the best candidate for the job in a fair and open process. -- I was


selected. In which you very much Well now to something


uncontroversial - Europe. Just kidding! UKIP are having a great


time - riding high in the polls - and if large numbers of disaffected


Conservatives switch their vote at the next election the Tories will


be toast. Not surprisingly then, some Conservatives think they


should do a deal with UKIP - the party that David Cameron says is


full of eccentrics. Charlotte Callen reports. They're a party


with a spring in their step. UKIP are riding high in the polls with


some putting their support at up to 16% nationally - that's above the


Lib Dems. But the party have long been a force in West Country


politics - they came second here in the 2009 European elections with


22% of the vote. Labour were pushed into fourth place. And here in


Wells - this man was, according to the former Tory MP for the area


David Heathcote-Amory, responsible for him losing in the general


election in 2010. UKIP polled over one thousand votes here - he lost


by only 800 votes to the Lib Dem candidate Tessa Munt. The the


Conservatives are becoming scared and realising that we are a real


threat to their seats. I feel passionately that we do not want to


do a deal whatsoever. Most of the people I have talked to do not want


to do a deal with the Conservatives, and even Nigel Farage, our leader,


does not want to a deal. Those types of deals are long gone, and


they are going to have to reap what play so. -- reap what they so.


Nigel Farage their leader is confident of big things for UKIP


here in the West Country. And their success could be costly for the


other political parties. Some Conservatives are openly worried


and think David Cameron should do a deal with UKIP. When you have UKIP


at local and national elections, they have a potential to be no


members of parliament. The party still has a long way to go to win


seats in local and parliamentary elections. I would not be vote for


them personally. I think Europe is a very good thing, and I am


disappointed that other people do not agree. We go to -- we have an


opportunity to lead in Europe. We just turn it down the whole time.


Yes, I would consider voting Europe. The euro is a big issue. It is


important for Europe -- the UK to return to the state of its own


sovereignty. I would not vote UKIP. I do not think that they are bad or


mad, but I would not vote for them. But just by standing in local and


at the next general election, they could impact on who wins or by how


Should UKIP to a deal with the Conservatives? Absolute not. I


think there is a misconception in the film, which suggests that UKIP


does not only boats for the Conservatives. It takes votes from


Labour and the Liberal Democrats. Let's talk a about what happened in


Nick Wells. The UKIP guy got 1,000 You put in Tessa Munt, whose pro-


European. In the Wells constituency, there were at UKIP candidates.


There were candidates in 2005, 2001 and 1997. In 1992 there was a


referendum Party candidate. As the BBC said, he was a casualty of the


expenses scandal. What did you stay and against him? Because we eat are


a political candidate -- party who stands candidates in every


constituency. Mr Cameron says he is going to renegotiate with Europe on


generate 22nd. Is that realistic? It is entirely realistic, because


in two or three years' time, there will be a renewal of the European


treaters. The -- Europe is not going to be -- is going to


negotiate a political union. I anticipate the Conservative


position will be to go ahead and form the federation. We will not


stop that. But in return, we want the repatriation of certain powers.


It and then he will forced to be have a referendum? I think this is


part of the deal, and I think our European partners are willing to


play. Why don't you leave? We do want to root remain part of a


single market. That is really important. On they came to the


United Kingdom because we are part of the single market. -- Honda came


to the United Kingdom. We need to say to Europe, at the moment, you


have too much power over how Britain is run. We want to change


that relationship. British politicians have been saying this


for a long time. I remember in 1975, Harold Wilson had a referendum


saying here are some note -- new terms. What you are offering is


that it is not on offer. The fat of the matter is that the European


Union is a reformed and under former ball -- it is unable to be


reformed. The factor the matter is what is on offer is either a


federal Europe, a clattering train of integration going on and on and


on, all we get out. We will be much better if we got out. Instead of


being tied to this low-growth sclerotic declining Europe. Ribald


to bat there if we go through and renegotiate our position with


Europe. If I am wrong, if the EU says there is no change possible,


then maybe William is right. But we have had ago. Should Mr Cameron


have called UKIP fruitcakes? I think some of the UKIP MEPs art


fruitcakes. David Cameron went to head the Dow, Eton and Oxford, just


like I did, and those three schools, teach you that you play the ball


and not the man. It is about policy, not people. He should stop


personalising politics in this way. Now it is time for our 62nd round


If you're a council tax payer in Bristol then your bills look set to


go up. The newly-elected mayor George Ferguson says it's needed to


balance the budget. He's also warned there will be some


compulsory redundancies. And the city council was under fire this


week for letting a four year old girl continue to stay with a foster


family, despite one of the foster arents being investigated for


downloading pictures of child abuse. All the rain at the end of last


year has caused an estimated �2.1 million of damage to


Gloucestershire's roads. The county council says most of the bill is


caused by a couple of landslips and potholes.And the Wiltshire Tory


Claire Perry and her 13 year old daughter Eliza are spending a week


in Africa living without running water or electricity. Before flying


out they were briefed by Gambians who've come to Wiltshire thanks to


a twinning link with Marlborough. It is a great partnership. There is


lots of learning. Ironed that have Let's pick up on one of those


stories. Should councillors be increasing the amount that people


have to pay in these hard times? Would you think? I am rather they


didn't. This is his plan. He will be treated -- he will be a judge in


three-and-a-half years' time. think the people will be very


disappointed that cuts the tax is going to be raised. More cuts?


There will be cut anyway. If we freeze cancer test, those cuts will


be greater. But his judgment the mayor has to take. That is all we


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