13/01/2013 Sunday Politics West

In the West - tensions over our top cops. The newly elected Police and

Crime Commissioners run into difficulties trying to appoint new

Apology for the loss of subtitles for 2536 seconds

Chief Constables. One even ends in Thank you Andrew. And welcome to

our first Sunday Politics in the west of 2013. This year has started

with a bang for one of the new Police and Crime Commissioners. Sue

Mountstevens ends up in the High Court after a bust up with the

Chief Constable on their first meeting. In a moment I will be

talking to the man who dreamt up the idea of police commissioners.

But here in our interrogation room I am joined by two likely suspects.

They are Ashley Fox for the Conservatives. And William

Dartmouth from UKIP. They are both Euro MPs representing this part of

the world. This week Honda announced plans to cut 800 jobs at

its Swindon plant, blaming weak demand across Europe. It's a blow

to jobs and the west's manufacturing industry. Ashley Fox

- the crisis in Europe seems to be the root of the problem. It shows

how we are in it together in Europe. And it also shows how the internal

market and single market are. Who knows whether on the would continue

to invest in the United Kingdom? This is disappointing news, but

hopefully, the British economy is healing, and these will see their

jobs return in the due course. The European economy is in the huge

mess, because the euro was put together so bad the. Would they

have even come to Swindon in the first place have not been in the

EU? And I think it is very clear that the answer is yes, because

there is other factors. There is the skilled workforce, and there is

the English language. The other thing is that the tariff wall

between continental Europe and the rest of the world is approximately

5%, been accepted in two categories, but where and textiles. -- footwear.

It is very important that Britain resits export efforts into the rest

of the world. We would talk more on Now to one of the biggest stories

of the week - the very public row between the new Police Commissioner

for Avon and Somerset and the Chief Constable. In their very first

meeting - they fell out - and the chief constable - Colin Port says

he was humiliated into retirement. It came to a head in the High Court

when Mr Port unsuccessfully tried to sue. Here's Paul Barltrop. It's

been a baptism of fire for Avon and Somerset's new police commissioner,

just seven weeks into the job. you responsible for the breakdown

of the relationship? The high court judge criticised her - but ruled

against the departing chief constable. Colin Port's barrister

argued he'd been "humiliated" by an "arbitary" decision by the new

Commissioner, and "unlawfully induced to retire". Which are

delighted that the High Court has decided that the commissioner's

decisions were lawful in every respect. Colin Port may appeal -

insisting it's vital for the position of all police chiefs.

clashes unprecedented, and does not bode well for the future. At the

same time, there has been strong criticism in the way the posts have

set up. One of those people had hoped to go for the job. When

Labour paraded their candidates for PCC last summer, they were proud of

Bob Ashford. Politically he'd served as councillor and mayor of

Frome in Somerset. Professionally he'd been a senior official

advising the government on youth justice. By a was cleared by the

Home Office, I was working on security sensitive information,

against extremism, for instance. was working with top government

officials. I could go to the meetings in Number Ten. I could

talk to anyone and be trusted. a childhood offence - trespassing

by a railway line with lads who had an air gun - meant he was barred

from standing. Other withdrawals followed, including Falklands War

veteran Simon Weston. The rules for becoming a PCC are stricter than

for police officers or MPs. He's joined forces with Bob Ashford to

launch a campaign called wipe the slate clean. I like to believe that

it is the law of a retentive consequences. I do not believe when

this was being legislated, they understood the full implications of

what they were doing. That is absolutely clear. The message that

has come from this legislation, which really must be undone, is

that regardless of how long ago you committed an offence, how mind of

that was, even if you have fully accepted the defence you have

committed, you can never be fully rehabilitated. He's disappointed

with the response he's had back from government. But the

controversies surrounding last year's PCC elections may be a lower

priority for ministers than the rows that have followed. Let's

cross to Westminster. We will talk to the architect of the police and

crime Commissioner role. You will want the job plans could set

commissioners and chief constables on a war footing. That happened

within a day in a firm and Somerset. Others warned that lots of things

could happen. 15th November was a terrible day. One -- this was

political vandalism. It would politicise the police. I think

since 15th November, very little has happened which in any way

damages the hopes people have for police and crime commissioners. Of

course, there are teething problems. The Chief Constable wants to

protect his own interests. It will now be settled, he may appeal, he

may not. But this is only a little local difficulty in the first few

months of an enormous change to present arrangements for policing

this country. We have lost a raft of experienced officers. I agree,

and I am sorry about this. I wish some of them have stayed on. Many

felt the threat to resign rather than serve on the PCCs would derail

the project. The Home Secretary made it clear from day one she

would proceed with this. She fought on despite terrible opposition from

all sides. It is now the law. I am sorry that some of the chief

constables, who are very able indeed, say, OK, fine, you've won.

There are large number of applicants for these vacant posts,

but... Bay are people who want to work their way up the greasy pole.

Most MPs are running their forces anyway! I am not worried at all. It

is a change that was very much resisted by the Commission in early

days. I am sorry to leave some officers experience. We have not

run out of talent. Yours so what does briefly that voters would

ignore the elections, and most did. Yes. I said it was very difficult

for people to appreciate the full significance of these elections,

and perhaps we did not get the message across. Perhaps people were

not conscious enough of what was happening for a number of reasons.

Elections in November. The turnout was disappointingly low. But I

think you will find that if we had more elections next year, I am very

encouraged by the way the new posts have come about. Let's tell talk to

You have fallen out with your own crime panel. What has happened

there? They are a upset about the process. We will be meeting them on

Monday. There was a fair and open process. What happened there? While

they are upset with you? They her do it via the media rather than

through me. Were to do not tell them first? I did. I told them with

a message on their answer phone. We have to confirm the employment on

Monday. I know that. It is bad that I did not Britain before hand. I am

sorry. They could be so you're appointment. -- the tone your

appointment. I think the place to do this is on Monday. In front of

the panel. We can deal with it then. I don't quite understand the FA.

There's bring in our other guests. UKIP did not put anyone up for

elections. On the contrary, we put up 24 candidates. We did not put

any up in the area where you were elected. I must congratulate you

for getting in as an independent. We were disappointed with the

politicisation of the police. Many of these people are put in by

establishment political parties. We just heard from the Pier. He is a

good salesman. It is an unconvincing rationale for what has

happened. I think the whole thing of Police Commissioner --

commissioners is her jolly bad idea. If -- what we have bought a police

off -- police authority he was enormous. No one knew who they were.

This will make a marginal step forward in accountability.

million was the cost of the elections. Was that money well

spent? Or I think it was. Over the decades ahead, we will seek things

improve. If you like what the commission it does, you can like

him, and if you don't, you couldn't. I think this is a good reform.

I think it is. It is a wonderful opportunity to do that. There will

be things coming out in the wash. There will be early disagreements.

But this is not a bad reform. problem was is that no one knew who

you were, and there was no budget put out election material which

explains the low turnout. You just have to work hard. People in

Gloucestershire know I work very hard. I was out and about. They

know who I am. I did it with my own funds and no donations. It was a

good fight, and I've won, and now they have to put up with me for 3

1/2 years, and see how I am going to do. I am going to do a good job.

Are you convince your post will not be overturn next week? Let's hope

the panel -- let's hear what the panel has to say. Other selected as

the best candidate for the job in a fair and open process. -- I was

selected. In which you very much Well now to something

uncontroversial - Europe. Just kidding! UKIP are having a great

time - riding high in the polls - and if large numbers of disaffected

Conservatives switch their vote at the next election the Tories will

be toast. Not surprisingly then, some Conservatives think they

should do a deal with UKIP - the party that David Cameron says is

full of eccentrics. Charlotte Callen reports. They're a party

with a spring in their step. UKIP are riding high in the polls with

some putting their support at up to 16% nationally - that's above the

Lib Dems. But the party have long been a force in West Country

politics - they came second here in the 2009 European elections with

22% of the vote. Labour were pushed into fourth place. And here in

Wells - this man was, according to the former Tory MP for the area

David Heathcote-Amory, responsible for him losing in the general

election in 2010. UKIP polled over one thousand votes here - he lost

by only 800 votes to the Lib Dem candidate Tessa Munt. The the

Conservatives are becoming scared and realising that we are a real

threat to their seats. I feel passionately that we do not want to

do a deal whatsoever. Most of the people I have talked to do not want

to do a deal with the Conservatives, and even Nigel Farage, our leader,

does not want to a deal. Those types of deals are long gone, and

they are going to have to reap what play so. -- reap what they so.

Nigel Farage their leader is confident of big things for UKIP

here in the West Country. And their success could be costly for the

other political parties. Some Conservatives are openly worried

and think David Cameron should do a deal with UKIP. When you have UKIP

at local and national elections, they have a potential to be no

members of parliament. The party still has a long way to go to win

seats in local and parliamentary elections. I would not be vote for

them personally. I think Europe is a very good thing, and I am

disappointed that other people do not agree. We go to -- we have an

opportunity to lead in Europe. We just turn it down the whole time.

Yes, I would consider voting Europe. The euro is a big issue. It is

important for Europe -- the UK to return to the state of its own

sovereignty. I would not vote UKIP. I do not think that they are bad or

mad, but I would not vote for them. But just by standing in local and

at the next general election, they could impact on who wins or by how

Should UKIP to a deal with the Conservatives? Absolute not. I

think there is a misconception in the film, which suggests that UKIP

does not only boats for the Conservatives. It takes votes from

Labour and the Liberal Democrats. Let's talk a about what happened in

Nick Wells. The UKIP guy got 1,000 You put in Tessa Munt, whose pro-

European. In the Wells constituency, there were at UKIP candidates.

There were candidates in 2005, 2001 and 1997. In 1992 there was a

referendum Party candidate. As the BBC said, he was a casualty of the

expenses scandal. What did you stay and against him? Because we eat are

a political candidate -- party who stands candidates in every

constituency. Mr Cameron says he is going to renegotiate with Europe on

generate 22nd. Is that realistic? It is entirely realistic, because

in two or three years' time, there will be a renewal of the European

treaters. The -- Europe is not going to be -- is going to

negotiate a political union. I anticipate the Conservative

position will be to go ahead and form the federation. We will not

stop that. But in return, we want the repatriation of certain powers.

It and then he will forced to be have a referendum? I think this is

part of the deal, and I think our European partners are willing to

play. Why don't you leave? We do want to root remain part of a

single market. That is really important. On they came to the

United Kingdom because we are part of the single market. -- Honda came

to the United Kingdom. We need to say to Europe, at the moment, you

have too much power over how Britain is run. We want to change

that relationship. British politicians have been saying this

for a long time. I remember in 1975, Harold Wilson had a referendum

saying here are some note -- new terms. What you are offering is

that it is not on offer. The fat of the matter is that the European

Union is a reformed and under former ball -- it is unable to be

reformed. The factor the matter is what is on offer is either a

federal Europe, a clattering train of integration going on and on and

on, all we get out. We will be much better if we got out. Instead of

being tied to this low-growth sclerotic declining Europe. Ribald

to bat there if we go through and renegotiate our position with

Europe. If I am wrong, if the EU says there is no change possible,

then maybe William is right. But we have had ago. Should Mr Cameron

have called UKIP fruitcakes? I think some of the UKIP MEPs art

fruitcakes. David Cameron went to head the Dow, Eton and Oxford, just

like I did, and those three schools, teach you that you play the ball

and not the man. It is about policy, not people. He should stop

personalising politics in this way. Now it is time for our 62nd round

If you're a council tax payer in Bristol then your bills look set to

go up. The newly-elected mayor George Ferguson says it's needed to

balance the budget. He's also warned there will be some

compulsory redundancies. And the city council was under fire this

week for letting a four year old girl continue to stay with a foster

family, despite one of the foster arents being investigated for

downloading pictures of child abuse. All the rain at the end of last

year has caused an estimated �2.1 million of damage to

Gloucestershire's roads. The county council says most of the bill is

caused by a couple of landslips and potholes.And the Wiltshire Tory

Claire Perry and her 13 year old daughter Eliza are spending a week

in Africa living without running water or electricity. Before flying

out they were briefed by Gambians who've come to Wiltshire thanks to

a twinning link with Marlborough. It is a great partnership. There is

lots of learning. Ironed that have Let's pick up on one of those

stories. Should councillors be increasing the amount that people

have to pay in these hard times? Would you think? I am rather they

didn't. This is his plan. He will be treated -- he will be a judge in

three-and-a-half years' time. think the people will be very

disappointed that cuts the tax is going to be raised. More cuts?

There will be cut anyway. If we freeze cancer test, those cuts will

be greater. But his judgment the mayor has to take. That is all we