27/01/2013 Sunday Politics West

The government department or where spending is booming. And the

Apology for the loss of subtitles for 2287 seconds

Thanks Andrew - welcome to Sunday Politics in the West with me, Steve

LeFevre, in the hot seat while David's somewhere hotter. Talking

of which - the climate and the economy may be wintry here, but the

hotspot for government spending is overseas. We travel to Gambia with

a Wiltshire MP and debate the big increase in the development money

we're putting towards poorer countries. With me are two

politicians, both with an international perspective. Jack

Lopresti comes from an Italian immigrant family - he's now the

Conservative MP for Filton and Bradley Stoke. And Marvin Rees has

studied at Yale and travelled extensively - most recently he was

Labour's candidate for mayor in his home city of Bristol. First to the

big political story not just of the past week, but probably of the next

five years. David Cameron's pledge to have an in-out referendum on

Europe. This is the hokey cookie referendum, where do you stand on

it? I think he gave a very good speech. If you look at the

political world in the last 20 years, the pressure has been

building to give the British people another save. -- another say. I

think a referendum at some stage was inevitable so I'm glad we now

have a timescale and the programme and a commitment that if you vote

Conservative in the next election you will get a chance to vote on

that. There will be a referendum if he is Prime Minister. Do people

know what they are voting for? think that is one of the challenges.

The concern is this creates more instability, uncertainty, which

isn't good for business, not good for our need to attract inward

investment. Without that certainty, it was perhaps an unwise time to

say it and an unwise declaration to make. Uncertainty and debate for

another five years. I am not sure it is something that is at high on

people's agenda. Business people seem to enjoy it. There was a

litter in the Times the other day, some business people wrote and said

it they were happy that the referendum was happening. One of

the signatories runs a local company, it is an issue that has

been gaining traction on the doorstep in recent years. There is

uncertainty about the European Union at the moment anyway, is the

euro going to survive, or what shape will it be in, more fiscal

control, tighter management of the European economies. I think it is a

good opportunity to try and get the best deal for Britain and put it to

the people. I also think we have promised that if you vote

Conservative, I will be surprised if Labour don't make a similar

promise. The question is how did you get that best deal for Britain,

because our interests are tied in with a strong Europe. The question

is, what is the best case Britain can take to negotiate that stronger

Europe? And negotiating an exit is not the best policy. Or we will

have five years to discuss this! We may live in an age of austerity,

but one area of government spending has gone on rising - international

development. Britain is pledged to increase aid to the world's poor,

though critics say now is not the right time. One MP who's committed

to the cause is Claire Perry of Devizes. She's just spent a week

living without electricity or running water in Africa. Laura

Lyons reports. From winter in Wiltshire to the

heat, sights and sounds of Africa. Devizes MP Claire Perry and her 13-

year old daughter Eliza spent a week in Gambia. They were amazed at

the reception they got. They stayed with locals, experiencing life as

they lived it. I haven't had a bath in hot water for a week, I washed

my hair in a bucket. When you have to go and get water from a well,

every drop a third of the Wash in has to be carried back on Sunday's

head. It does make you think a bit about your resources. She paid her

own way, keen to see the work of the Marlborough charity linked to

this community for 30 years. Back home and the contrast between the

two countries was clear - and not just in their climate. I just think

it brought home to me how incredibly lucky we are to live in

a democracy, with a rule of law, with the the judicial challenges

they have at the moment, in a country where you can turn on a tap

and good clean water. She also wanted to gauge the impact of aid.

She officially opened a new market hall, built with help from the

Wiltshire charity. As one of the world's poorest countries, Gambia

also gets development aid from Europe. In was overwhelming, it was

beautiful, it was saddening to see wonderful children with so little.

It was frustrating because the whole issue of how you deliver

international aid in a way that helps people rather than create

dependency was there, but overall it was the most friendly, beautiful

place I have ever visited. But it's not just one-way - the twinning

brings many Gambians to Wiltshire. So before she went there was plenty

of advice for the MP. One thing I will always you proud of is the

religious tolerance of people in Gambia. Our community spirit is

very strong. That is why when you are poor in the Gambia, you still

have a roof over your head and you still have something to eat and you

still have something to do and somewhere to go, because a brother

somewhere, ACAS in somewhere, will always be willing to share the

little he has with you -- our cars in it somewhere. For Claire Perry

and her daughter, Gambia left a lasting impression. A think it was

a sense of community and structure and values that some might say we

have lost and we are worse off for it. How life is very different, but

some of those messages are very good ones of the people to see.

She's confident the help given here has made a real difference.

Ensuring Britain's growing aid budget is well-spent everywhere

will be much harder. Well, joining us is the Marlborough GP who set up

the link with the Gambia, Nick Maurice. You said last year it

nobody wants to see any reduction in armed forces, so why are we

protecting spending on international development, which

has seen a 30,000 service jobs lost. I think what we have done in

international development for the last decades in the UK, we can be

proud of the generosity of the British taxpayer and the good work

we have done, I think aid spending has gone up by over a billion. My

problem is that we are pledged to increase that by another 3 billion

the next couple of years whilst in the week where the promise says set

-- Prime Minister says we have to be deployed in Africa and continue

the fight against Al-Qaeda and extreme terrorist groups, we are

making 5000 troops redundant, while cutting the defence budget and it

disproportionately increasing the aid budget. The first

responsibility of any government his defence of the realm and the

security about people. What we have spent so far is fantastic, we can

continue to do their body disproportionate increase over the

next couple of years while we are cutting defence is something I am

uncomfortable with. It is a phenomenal amount of money. We can

talk about whether it is going up or not because we have present our

commitment to good to be 0.7%... But you have to understand, aid is

not just a moral case, it is a key part of our foreign policy to stop

political stability overseas, when you get too hot beds for terrorism,

for Migration, I used to work for an aid agency years ago, we were

looking at countries where people were turning to the production of

drugs because they didn't have viable alternatives to make a

living. It is not a question of what we delays and nice things...

This is also about British interests overseas, it is a key

part of that. But it is where the money goes. Aid can transfer cash,

all very well helping the people who really needed in the film, but

is the money actually going there? It is the increase, it has been

increased by over a billion. We are putting troops numbers, the Home

Office budget, is it sensible on a strategic basis to increase the aid

budgets are disproportionately while making soldiers redundant?

Having set up that link, when we see what has happened over there,

it is a two-way street. It is not just the money going into places

like Gambia, it is what we can get back from there. I think it is true

to say that we have learnt as much from the relationship we have had

with the Gambia as people there have learnt from us. We have

exchange 1600, particularly young people, between our two communities,

we have them coming to visit us, learning from our way of life just

as we have young people from Marlboro and a white districts

going out to the Gambia, working alongside Gambians on projects --

wide districts. I was delighted when Claire Perry agreed to come

and spend a week in that community, and experience first hand up what

development aid can be about. a big price to pay what we hear

about what people are living on, I'll be getting our money's worth?

Of course we are. It is and how are our own self-interest. The wide

disparity between the very rich and the very poor, the greater the

conflict is likely to break out. I don't think it is either or,

defence spending, the two things are absolutely related. My very

strong view is the more we can assist and work alongside, and I

stress alongside, people in so- called developing countries, the

better. When I was last in the US, one of the meetings I had took me

by surprise. It was meeting a couple from the US Army. They were

in Afghanistan, they were involved in forestry, this was aid work, it

was about helping farmers take care of the forests so they could take

care rather than be seduced by the Taliban. It is not just morals come

it is a self interest. Power to the people. It was once a battle-cry

for revolutionaries, but in recent years it's been a call to arms for

the Conservatives. From the "Big Society" to localism, David

Cameron's talked repeatedly about devolving decision-making down. One

important change has been encouraging neighbourhoods to set

out their own plans. But does it really work? Paul Barltrop reports.

It's easy to say in opposition - before becoming Prime Minister,

David Cameron talked a lot about empowering local people. That same

approach lies behind our plan to encourage people to come together

in neighbourhood groups so they can work together to make life better.

We are going to give communities the chance to take control What we

got was the Localism Act, allowing the creation of so-called

Neighbourhood Plans. It'll revitalise local democracy and put

power back where it belongs - in the hands of the people. But swap

the Westminster hothouse for the cold West country and things look

rather different, particularly to the people of Malmesbury. What

happens in these fields is a big test of government policy.

Developers want to build 180 houses here, Wiltshire council has said no,

but what's most significant is that locals have got together and become

among the first in the land to produce a Neighbourhood Plan. Under

new rules that should mean they have more control over development.

They're not saying no to any development in their own, beautiful

back yard. It's just they have a different view of where houses

should be built. It's all been set out in a 100-page Neighbourhood

Plan worked up over many months by local residents. Of workshops and

reduce, I think that makes it sound good. They had to look at

everything from national and local planning strategies to human

rights' rules. It's been a mammoth task. This is heavy duty volunteer

work, it is not floating about in meetings, it is heavy duty, at your

desk, in front of your word processor, writing document,

reading planning documents, studying, trying to understand to

stop it is one of the hardest things I have ever done to stop we

have done absolutely everything and we can. If we are not allowed to go

forward with our plan, it would make a mockery of the government's

policy. Because we can't possibly do any more, so it if it doesn't

work for us, it is not going to work for any body! They'll soon

find out. It is 26 that we originally started from. This week

they came face to face with the developers at a planning inquiry.

An inspector will decide whose plans come out on top - after the

evidence has been heard and tested by lawyers. It is daunting for the

people, the residents who have never been involved in this kind of

process before. They're coming to almost a judicial process, being

cross-examined, being pushed and pushed, which is the job of the

lawyers, and that is an experience for local residents who feel

passionately about what they want for their communities but aren't

used to that very bureaucratic legal system. Winning this appeal

isn't all. For their neighbourhood plan to take effect, these

residents must also get it approved by a local referendum. Only then

may there be a bit more power to the people.

We're joined by someone who knows all about this - Alison Bromilow

runs a Neighbourhood Planning Network here in Bristol. Thank you

for joining us. It looks incredibly hard work. The Eighties, both -- it

is, people have been putting hours and weeks, people went for the same

system in Bristol, for two years, they haven't been getting to the

stage yet, it is an enormous commitment. This is a group of

people who know what they're doing, they have applied themselves, you

have got to know about be you law, you have to know about strategies,

core strategies, 100 page documents, is this how localism it works?

is not just the planning, it is the whole business of running a project,

organising your time, programming it, organising volunteers, never

nut job. Working out how to communicate and to consult with the

public, it is not just you sitting in a room, you have to bring your

whole community along, otherwise it will get thrown out at referendum

staged to stop is this what the government means by localism?

about empowering people, making sure they are part of the process.

It can seem a lot of work. You can use local groups like your town

council and neighbourhood group as a conduit. I think it is great that

people come to surgery and say, we don't feel part of the process,

people don't listen to us, this would be a great way when it gets

going to actually empower people to get involved in local decision-

making. Can this work through communities right across our

region? De always a challenge if when institutions say they are

going to empower people but come across the threshold. It is not

empowered to people have to jump through hoops, we have seen it

repeatedly as well. What I'm hearing is that there is a real

danger would you could end up with the most advantaged communities,

with great resources, being able to navigate these bureaucratic

nightmares where is the most disadvantaged are left behind, not

having as much of a voice. So it is critical to say we are going to

give a voice to local communities but we have to be real about

looking at the processes they have to go to and the support will be

offering them up. You have the communities department to give you

a hand at Ayr. If there is a frail little guidance here, we make it up

as we go along. -- very little guidance. We have the planning

network, all the groups have got together, Bristol is tighter

different from the parish plans because we don't have parishes, so

we don't have a precept, none of the money comes to the community,

aid ghost of the local planning authority. So we have to work to

the local planning authority to get money raised at various stages in

order to continue our way through the process, and it is a lot of

stuff for people to get on board and have to learn. You have really

got to go for it, you have to want to have the skills we have seen, it

isn't going to happen. People do feel passionate about this,

Planning in their local areas, I agree broadly about it is a

question of people having the resources, I represent an area of

pounds and Paris is, so there is another layer which could help,

this is an early stage of this process. You said localism is an

allusion, do you think that? said it could be. It depends on

what we are talking about. Government institutions can speak

with forked tongues. If you are going to say it, you have to mean

it, back it up with the resources and we have to look at how the

processes at work, do they exclude people? Thank you. It's time now to

take a look at the political stories of the week in our 60

The Conservatives are losing members as MPs prepare to vote on

controversial plans for gay marriage. The chairman in Somerton

and bream quit, claiming them it would be more resignations. Almost

all the people you talk to feel the same way, not necessarily to the

point of resignation, but there is an enormous feeling of anger and

frustration. The Mayor of Bristol City was relieved after recruiting

three more councillors did cabinet. He found him so stretched after

trying to cover three portfolios. The new line-up is temporary. There

was one of Oktay Mahmuti, Lib Dem campaigning paid dividends as they

held on to the seat of... If this Bristol MP get his way voters will

in the future be younger. His backbench motor was supported in

the Commons but it may stop there. The Prime Minister is supposed to

bodes for 16 and 17-year-olds. -- votes. A busy week. His 16th too

young to vote? I have got a 16- year-old boy, and an 18-year-old

daughter. I am comfortable with my daughter voting, not my son at

probably. We talk about politics, she takes a genuine interest, I am

not sure that at 16, you cannot buy tobacco, alcohol, stand for office,

I am not so sure about 16. It is all about getting political

majority and education, knowing about politics, that is the idea?

I would be supported by a vet, I think it is an investment, I think

it is about engaging more people in politics. That is about the

responsibility of politicians and broadcasters as well, in the way

they tell stories but maybe we can talk about that off-air! Always

comes down to the media! How would it change the political landscape,

it you had 16 and 17-year-olds, do you think it would make politicians

think more about what they're doing? It is not obviously a

parallel. We try and engage with all levels, I'm sure. We have to. A

16-year-old today will be 18 in a short space of time. I'm sure you

can find 28-year-olds who sit on and play stations all day and are

politically unengaged. I think it would draw people into the process

and give people an opportunity in schools to start with some hard

issues. It is important to talk about children -- talk to children

of all ages about politics, it is whether you can make a judgment at

16, to cast of Brake. A lot of them are switched on. At all stages...

I'm sure my son isn't typical of all 16 year-old! I was being ironic.

I'm just beginning to think about that now. Thank you to you both.

Good to have your company here. That is just about it for this week.