03/02/2013 Sunday Politics West

$:/STARTFEED. In the West - are the poor about to

get poorer still? This April will see sweeping changes to benefits

linked to housing. We are looking at who is going to lose out.

Apology for the loss of subtitles for 2431 seconds

Bankia. Welcome to the Sunday Politics in the West. -- thank key.

Coming up: Pay up or get out. What one of grieving widow has been told

as big changes are made to housing and council tax benefits. Alastair

do guests are two politicians who would not give each other house

room. -- our two guests. We are talking about housing in a moment.

First, the Gay Marriage Bill, which will be debated on Tuesday. Why are

so many Conservatives Against It? All sorts of reasons. It is a very

complicated and difficult issue. I was moving towards being in favour

of it when add that it was going to be registry offices. I have

received 2000 representations in Yorkshire of people opposed to it.

Not one single recommendation in favour of it. I will vote against

it because I think it is wrong and I do not want it to happen.

Churches should not be required... Of if it were simply a question of

changing the words to registry offices, that would be fine. It is

only a matter of time before the European Court of Human Rights and

others say, actually, you are now required to do this event if you do

not want to. There is a good triple-lock on this. It is absolute

leader. It enables churches that wish to undertake equal marriages

to do so. It should be a celebration of two people who love

each other. There is no discrimination whatsoever. People

in the same sex who want to get married in the church and if the

Church once and to get married, they are unable to do so. You are

admitting it is about churches! If it is the case, I say leave it to

them. They cannot do it at the moment. If you are a Quaker, you

cannot do that. My friend had a registry office civil partnership

and that was fine. Have you got a similar post bag to him? Are people

opposing it? I know of people who said that because of religious

reasons... Probably 90% wet if not more, are in favour of it. They

understand that churches are not being forced to do it. They can

marry people if they wish to. I think it is terrific. If people

oppose it and wished to vote against it, that is their

prerogative. I am glad there is a free vote in the House of Commons

and the House of Lords. So am I. Why is the Archbishop of Canterbury

and all the bishops, with the exception of the Quakers, they are

totally opposed to it? Other churches want to do it. More of

that in the week ahead. Some of the poorest people in society will soon

get a bit poorer. The Government is making changes on housing benefit.

They're changing council tax relief. If you live in a council house or a

property owned by a housing association, you can also get

clobbered. If you have the spare room, you can lose some housing

benefit. Julie is still grieving. This is the bedroom she shared with

her husband before his death from cancer. That is the artwork that he

did before he died. Her children are grown up, so there is a spare

bedroom at her council house. This July, a year since being widowed,

she will be ordered to pay an extra �500 a year or moved. This is where

I had been for 30 years. I have brought up of family. I have

grandchildren to come. My husband lived and died here. It is not just

a case of downsizing. Cases like hers have caused alarm. What has

been dubbed the bedroom tax was raised at Prime Minister's

Questions. There are many people in private rented accommodation

without housing benefit he cannot afford extra bedrooms. We need to

get control of this. They are spending as a country �23 billion

on housing benefit and we have to get that budget under control.

April could tenants with one extra bedroom will lose 14% of housing

benefit. Those with two or more spare rooms face a cut of 25%.

Pensioners are protected, as they are from the other big change.

Working-age people who currently get their council tax paid by

benefit may have to start paying hundreds of pounds, as the

Government hands over administering the system. It is a tough call for

councils will stock-take over the running of council tax benefits, so

the Government. -- running of councils. At the specially convened

full meeting, the Conservative run council debated on whether to cut

spending elsewhere. Impossible, both parties agreed. People on

benefit will have to pay. We do not have a lot of fat. I would like to

think we are a very efficient council. It does not leave a lot of

wiggle room when you get these Exocet it's locked in by government.

They're just imposing a tax on people on very low incomes. They're

trying to dodge the real impact of their decision-making at Parliament.

For those on benefits, attending Bridgewater JobCentre, it is a

worry. That is absolutely going to scupper Ming. I can hardly look, as

it is. -- scupper any. It would be very difficult. A lot of families

would be in more trouble than they are in now. It is hard for us to

provide an live properly. They are basically rising and increasing the

council tax and taking away money that you need. I would have to move

back in with my mum. Back in Kingswood, Julie feels it is unfair

that those with the least of being hit. Finding the money would be

difficult. Doing anything else would be worse. The thought of

packing up, closing my front door, handing the keys in and not living

here any more is unthinkable. It is just unbearable. My political

guests are still with me to discuss all of theirs. Under Labour,

housing benefit has doubled. Now the chickens have come home to

roost and they have got to make cuts. We all agree that there has

to be some cuts. I think that the welfare cuts that are taking place

at the moment are absolutely wrong. They are hitting people at the very

time when rich people are actually having tax rebates. Enormous tax

rebates. That is wrong. The bedroom tax will hit people who should not

be hit. Why shouldn't that Lady hang on to her bedroom, just in

case her grandchildren want to stay? What about the problems that

are being caused poor housing associations? My own housing

association understands the need for people to downsize but they do

not have any smaller properties for these people to live in. This is

affecting some of the poorest people in society. What have they

done to deserve that? 250,000 people today are on homeless

waiting lists. They want a house but they cannot get one. 1 million

people in England today have too small a house. They need that extra

room. There are lots of other people who the state is subsidising

in the fact they have a bigger house than they need. Housing

benefits are out of control. The state is subsidising people living

in a bigger house than a need for other people have no has to living

at will. We're trying to find a way to rebalance that. -- no house.

brother and sister living together. One of them dies. The survivor has

to pay, lose benefit or move out. There will be a 12 month waiting

period. If a single person is living in a two-bedroom of three-

bedroom house, they have to pay more through benefit all they have

to move out. Next door, a five- person family is living in a one-

bedroom house. It is their home! Where are these people going to

move? Where will they move? matter how many spare bedrooms you

have got, if you are on housing benefit, you must be allowed to

stay in that house. If not, you are supporting what we are actually

doing. Many people would wish to move to smaller accommodation.

Where someone dies, and the lady he was interviewed in the piece just

now, I think it is wrong for that woman to have to move out of her

home. We should not use these emotional cases. We're talking

about the generality of people, where a very large number of people

are living in houses that are too big for them. The state is paying

for it. The money is not going to these people themselves. The money

is going to go to private landlords. I am a great believer in

redistribution of wealth. Let's find another family that needs that

house and is living on the street or in inadequate accommodation.

Under Labour, there would be no housing benefit cuts. Is that

right? There would be some cuts. We have to look at the way in which it

is implemented. What we would not want is the bedroom tax. That is

unfair and unjust for poorer people. It is also a pejorative term. All

we're doing is equalising the use of scarce resources in housing.

are taxing people four bedrooms. That is why it is called the

bedroom tax. We will come back to party politics in just a minute.

Before that, some independent thinking. We have an independent

mayor in Bristol. A new group wants to field a handful of independent

candidates at the local elections in May. The have been here before

with the likes of Martin Bell, the former BBC correspondent.

Independents are running things in Somerset. Is this the start of a

new movement in local politics? Independents are in vogue. Bristol

has an independent men and three of our police forces have independent

commissioners. Is there more to come up? What we are not is a

political party. But they are a new group. Independents for Bristol

canvassed for candidates for the May elections. Bristol is very

unusual. It is a minority of towns and cities where there are no

independent candidates what so ever. -- it is in a minority. In north

Somerset, seven and West Somerset, seven. They hope to contest a

handful of the seats up for grabs. How did they attract any attention?

How will anyone know they are standing? What we can do is provide

the central focus for our activities - some training. Help

them with leaflets and give them a common independence for Bristol

look. They were inspired by what happened here in Froome.

Independents took control of the town council two years ago. What

was most ignorant for us was there was a 75% increase in turn out. --

significant. The former council chief executive says independently

Ore bring fresh thinking and their time has come. -- independents.

Political parties cannot draw in a number of people. Here, most of

them could not put up a candidate in most wards. People are beginning

to think the old Star politics is over. If we are not careful, will

be left with analogue politics in a digital age. -- we will be laughed.

We have been here before at the start of the digital age when

Bristol did have an independent councillor and a new independent

group had its first meeting. I am the only independent councillor in

Bristol and others like to have more with me. I would like to feel

that people are talking about the needs of the ward and not the party.

The party system in Bristol has had a pernicious effect on the

efficiency of local government. It has been banned by parties was that

they can only think of parties. Party's first, voter's second.

is those voters who will ultimately decide. Seasoned politicians are

not convinced they will be won over. As a voter, you like to know what

you are voting for. With independents it does not tell you

what is inside. With a party, at least you know their background,

where they're coming from. Beano the record and here you are voting

for. You do not know that with independents. The mayor and the

police commissioner has managed it was tapas and they change the face

of local politics here so good? -- managed it. Can a change? Chris is

an independent blogger and consultant. You ran the campaign

for the Bristol man. Thank you for coming in. What is so special about

independent? I think, in terms of local politics, and particularly in

terms of Bristol, there is a general consensus and perception

that local party politics has failed. Bristol has not punched its

rate for a long time. Part of that problem is the party political

strictures that are put on members. You only have to look at the fall-

out from the election. The Labour Party was going to join the Cabinet,

then they were not. Then they were and the local council has decided

that would be in the best interests of Bristol before the national

executive committee said you cannot. They put the kibosh on it. I do not

think anyone with the best interests of Bristol at heart

things that is a good idea. thinks. They spring up another.

There was mention. From the point of view of a voter, it you vote for

a political party, you know what you're getting. If you vote for an

independent, they might have a range of issues that are not

consistent. That is a bit of a silly view. Really? I also think it

is part of the problem. With party politicians at local level, you do

know what you are getting. You getting a party doctrine. You are

not getting a councillor who can vote for the best interests of a

ward. If you go before a selection process for a party, chair we say

that deluded and the eccentrics are weeded out in advance? -- shall we

say? That is not necessarily true. All the parties are struggling with

candidate selection and supply. I do not know how independents at

Bristol will set themselves up but, from what I understand, they will

have some selection process. So that they can Bill to the

candidates that will subscribe. Then they become a party. Let's

bring in some other guests. Do you accept your parties and others have

ruined local government? I do not think they have ruined local

government at all. There are some fantastic Labour councils up and

down the country, doing a splendid job - tried to mitigate the effects

of cuts. I'm not in need to be political. It is a very difficult

atmosphere. -- I'm not meaning to be political. Why I went -- why it

will Labour do not work with the independent Met in Bristol?

imagine that you would be that, come next May, we would be fighting

against some independent councillors, and it could have been

quite a difficult situation to have members in the Cabinet of the mayor

who were fighting other people within the Cabinet? If local

government is about making sure the pavements are even and the roads

are swept, why do we need a politician to do that? Why not be

good and upstanding person? believe. -- I believe in that. Good

men and women who have the local area at the forefront of their

minds, particularly at town and parish level, it is great. The

gentleman in the piece was correct in a way. Where there is a party

system at all, you have to know what it stands to. Conservatives

stand for lower council tax. Are we on the verge of a new independent

revolution in local government? That remains to be seen. The

situation in Bristol means that is very possible. The environment is

right for a group of independents. It has been talked about for a long

time. It is a very realistic possibility. We will have to leave

it there. Thank you for coming in. Time to take a look at the

political stories of the week in our 62nd round-up. -- 60 second

round-up. Airbus is taking on some engineers with the help of

government investment. The Government is hugely profitable so

the grant raised a question with the minister. The us Airbus really

need 1.5 million from the tax payers? -- does Airbus? You would

not expect us to put money into losers. A war of words involving

Eric Pickles. He accused people -- the Government of treating

residents with contempt. We all get tarred with the same brush was that

it is not very helpful. region's biggest bus firm agreed to

review offence. Publicly owned forests, including the Forest of

Dean, will not be sold off. It has reversed its plans after a public

outcry. That Was the Week in just one minute. How time flies! Let's

pick up on a couple of those stories. The minister's visit to

Airbus and the Government giving money for a successful company like

Airbus to recruit. Why's that? Why did they deserve the money?

would not want to give money to a failing company. In giving money to

a good company - half-French - it is very important that we should

keep them in Bristol. It is important we should employ these

100 people. A bit of money, 1.5 million, it does precisely that. I

welcome government investment in this area. I do agree but I would

be very interested to know their view on the European Union as well.

Whether or not we should be in the European Union. Airbus will be here,

in or not. The good news is that this week, David Cameron will be

having an in/out referendum. Would you have an in/out referendum?

We're not in government at the moment. You are. It is wrong to

have a referendum at the moment. What about in the next parliament?

We have to see what happens. will you vote? You would vote for

no? I want David Cameron to campaign very hard the terms

changed. I want the reformed European Union as well. You also

campaigned for the FA is not to be sold off. The Government has said

it does less than. They have listened to not just to people like

me but for a fantastic campaigners. Save our forests campaign. Real

People Power. I have not read all the small print. I am delighted the

Government has said it was some of the Forest was that that is good

and I welcome it was was that a mistake? -- the forest. 95% of

forests belong to private landowners. They belong to the

people. We agree with that. That is it from the West this week. The