22/01/2017 Sunday Politics West


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22/01/2017

Andrew Neil, David Garmston and shadow home secretary Diane Abbott provide reaction to Theresa May's Brexit speech and look at the inauguration of US president Donald Trump.


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It's Sunday morning, and this is the Sunday Politics.

:00:37.:00:39.

Theresa May will be the first foreign leader to visit US

:00:40.:00:42.

President Donald Trump this week - she's promised to hold "very

:00:43.:00:45.

frank" conversations with the new and controversial

:00:46.:00:48.

Speaking of the 45th President of America,

:00:49.:00:55.

we'll be looking at what the Trump presidency could hold

:00:56.:00:58.

in store for Britain and the rest of the world.

:00:59.:01:05.

And with the Supreme Court expected to say that Parliament should

:01:06.:01:07.

have a vote before the Brexit process begins, we'll ask

:01:08.:01:11.

In the West business of Brexit, as what Labour will do next.

:01:12.:01:22.

In the West business of Brexit, as BPM puts together an new

:01:23.:01:24.

relationship with And to talk about all of that

:01:25.:01:35.

and more, I'm joined by three journalists who, in an era

:01:36.:01:38.

of so-called fake news, can be relied upon for their accuracy,

:01:39.:01:40.

their impartiality - and their willingness

:01:41.:01:44.

to come to the studio It's Steve Richards,

:01:45.:01:47.

Julia Hartley-Brewer and Tom Newton Dunn,

:01:48.:01:53.

and during the programme they'll be tweeting as often as the 45th

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President of the USA in the middle So - the Prime Minister has been

:02:00.:02:03.

appearing on the BBC this morning. She was mostly talking

:02:04.:02:13.

about Donald Trump and Brexit, but she was also asked about a story

:02:14.:02:16.

on the front of this It's reported that an unarmed

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Trident missile test fired from the submarine HMS Vengeance

:02:20.:02:23.

near the Florida coast in June The paper says the incident took

:02:24.:02:29.

place weeks before a crucial Commons Well, let's have listen

:02:30.:02:37.

to Theresa May talking The issue that we were talking

:02:38.:02:41.

about in the House of Commons It was about whether or not

:02:42.:02:47.

we should renew Trident, whether we should look to the future

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and have a replacement Trident. That's what we were talking

:02:52.:02:54.

about in the House of Commons. That's what the House

:02:55.:02:57.

of Commons voted for. He doesn't want to defend our

:02:58.:02:59.

country with an independent There are tests that take place

:03:00.:03:04.

all the time, regularly, What we were talking about in that

:03:05.:03:12.

debate that took place... I'm not going to get

:03:13.:03:20.

an answer to this. Tom, it was clear this was going to

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come up this morning. It is on the front page of the Sunday Times. It

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would seem to me the Prime Minister wasn't properly briefed on how to

:03:37.:03:42.

reply. I think she probably was, but the Prime Minister we now have

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doesn't necessarily answer all questions in the straightest way.

:03:47.:03:52.

She didn't answer that one and all. Unlike previous ones? She made it

:03:53.:03:59.

quite clear she was briefed. You read between the Theresa May lines.

:04:00.:04:04.

By simply not answering Andrew Marr four times, it is obvious she knew,

:04:05.:04:09.

and that she knew before she went into the House of Commons and urged

:04:10.:04:14.

everyone to renew the ?40 billion replacement programme. Of course it

:04:15.:04:19.

is an embarrassment, but does it have political legs? I don't think

:04:20.:04:25.

so. She didn't mislead the Commons. If she wanted to close it down, the

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answer should have been, these are matters of national security.

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There's nothing more important in that than our nuclear deterrent. I'm

:04:35.:04:39.

not prepared to talk about testing. End of. But she didn't. Maybe you

:04:40.:04:46.

should be briefing her. That's a good answer. She is an interesting

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interviewee. She shows it when she is nervous. She was transparently

:04:51.:04:55.

uneasy answering those questions, and the fact she didn't answer it

:04:56.:04:59.

definitively suggests she did know and didn't want to say it, and she

:05:00.:05:05.

answered awkwardly. But how wider point, that the House of Commons

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voted for the renewal of Trident, suggests to me that in the broader

:05:11.:05:14.

sweep of things, this will not run, because if there was another vote, I

:05:15.:05:19.

would suggest she'd win it again. But it is an embarrassment and she

:05:20.:05:24.

handled it with a transparent awkwardness. She said that the tests

:05:25.:05:31.

go on all the time, but not of the missiles. Does it not show that when

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the Prime Minister leaves her comfort zone of Home Office affairs

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or related matters, she often struggles. We've seen it under

:05:41.:05:45.

questioning from Mr Corbyn even, and we saw it again today. Absolutely.

:05:46.:05:51.

Tests of various aspects of the missiles go on all the time, but

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there's only been five since 2000. What you described wouldn't have

:05:58.:06:01.

worked, because in previous tests they have always been very public

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about it. Look how well our missiles work! She may not have misled

:06:07.:06:16.

Parliament, but she may not have known about it. If she didn't know,

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does Michael Fallon still have a job on Monday? Should Parliament know

:06:22.:06:26.

about a test that doesn't work? Some would say absolutely not. Our

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deterrent is there to deter people from attacking us. If they know that

:06:34.:06:38.

we are hitting the United States by mistake rather than the Atlantic

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Ocean, then... There is such a thing as national security, and telling

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all the bad guys about where we are going wrong may not be a good idea.

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It was her first statement as Prime Minister to put her case for

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renewal, to have the vote on Trident, and in that context, it is

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significant not to say anything. If anyone knows where the missile

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landed, give us a call! So Donald Trump's inauguration day

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closed with him dancing to Frank Sinatra's My Way,

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and whatever your view on the 45th President of the United States

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he certainly did do it his way. Not for him the idealistic call

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for national unity - instead he used Friday's inaugural

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address to launch a blistering attack on the dark state

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of the nation and the political class, and to promise

:07:22.:07:24.

to take his uncompromising approach from the campaign trail

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to the White House. Here's Adam Fleming,

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with a reminder of how First, dropping by for a cup of tea

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and a slightly awkward exchange Then, friends, foes

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and predecessors watched I, Donald John Trump,

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do solemnly swear... The crowds seemed smaller

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than previous inaugurations, the speech tougher then any

:08:02.:08:05.

previous incoming president. From this day forth,

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it's going to be only America first. In the meantime, there were sporadic

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protests in Washington, DC. Opponents made their voices heard

:08:18.:08:41.

around the world too. The President,

:08:42.:08:46.

who'd criticised the work of the intelligence agencies,

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fitted in a visit to the CIA. There is nobody that feels stronger

:08:49.:08:52.

about the intelligence community And, back at the office,

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in the dark, a signature signalled the end of the Obama era

:08:57.:09:08.

and the dawn of Trump. So, as you heard there,

:09:09.:09:13.

President Trump used his inauguration to repeat his campaign

:09:14.:09:20.

promise to put "America first" in all his decisions, and offered

:09:21.:09:22.

some hints of what to expect He talked of in America in carnage,

:09:23.:09:40.

to be rebuilt by American hands and American Labour. President Trump has

:09:41.:09:43.

already started to dismantle key parts of the Obama Legacy, including

:09:44.:09:48.

the unwinding of the affordable care act, and the siding of the climate

:09:49.:09:53.

action plan to tackle global warning. Little to say about foreign

:09:54.:09:58.

policy, but promised to eradicate Islamic terrorism from the face of

:09:59.:10:03.

the Earth, insisting he would restore the US military to

:10:04.:10:07.

unquestioning dominance. He also said the US would develop a state

:10:08.:10:12.

missile defence system to deal with threats he sees from Iran and North

:10:13.:10:18.

Korea. In a statement that painted a bleak picture of the country he now

:10:19.:10:24.

runs, he said his would be a law and order Administration, and he would

:10:25.:10:29.

keep the innocents safe by building the border war with Mexico. One

:10:30.:10:34.

thing he didn't mention, for the first time ever, there is a

:10:35.:10:39.

Eurosceptic in the oval office, who is also an enthusiast for Brexit.

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We're joined now by Ted Malloch - he's a Trump supporter who's been

:10:43.:10:45.

tipped as the president's choice for US ambassador

:10:46.:10:47.

to the EU, and he's just flown back from Washington.

:10:48.:10:49.

And by James Rubin - he's a democrat who served

:10:50.:10:52.

Let's start with that last point I made in the voice over there. We now

:10:53.:11:02.

have a Eurosceptic in the oval office. He is pro-Brexit and not

:11:03.:11:09.

keen on further European Union integration. What are the

:11:10.:11:13.

implications of that? First of all, a renewal of the US- UK special

:11:14.:11:18.

relationship. You see the Prime Minister already going to build and

:11:19.:11:24.

rebuild this relationship. Already, the bust of Winston Churchill is

:11:25.:11:30.

back in the oval office. Interestingly, Martin Luther King's

:11:31.:11:34.

bust is also there, so there is an act of unity in that first movement

:11:35.:11:40.

of dusts. Donald Trump will be oriented between bilateral

:11:41.:11:45.

relationships and not multilateral or supernatural. Supranational full.

:11:46.:11:56.

What are the implications of someone in the White House now not believing

:11:57.:12:02.

in it? I think we are present in the unravelling of America's leadership

:12:03.:12:06.

of the West. There is now a thing called the west that America has led

:12:07.:12:11.

since the end of World War II, creating supranational - we just

:12:12.:12:23.

heard supernatural! These institutions were created. With

:12:24.:12:26.

American leadership, the world was at peace in Europe, and the world

:12:27.:12:31.

grew increasingly democratic and prosperous. Wars were averted that

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could be extremely costly. When something works in diplomacy, you

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don't really understand what the consequences could have been. I

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think we've got complacent. The new president is taking advantage of

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that. It is a terrible tragedy that so many in the West take for granted

:12:51.:12:56.

the successful leadership and institutions we have built. You

:12:57.:13:00.

could argue, as James Rubin has argued in some articles, that...

:13:01.:13:08.

Will Mr Trump's America be more involved in the world than the Obama

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won? Or will it continue the process with running shoes on that began

:13:16.:13:23.

with Mr Obama? President Obama stepped back from American

:13:24.:13:26.

leadership. He withdrew from the world. He had a horrendous eight

:13:27.:13:31.

years in office, and American powers have diminished everywhere in the

:13:32.:13:36.

world, not just in Europe. That power will reassert. The focus will

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be on America first, but there are foreign interests around the

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world... How does it reassert itself around the world? I think the

:13:46.:13:51.

institutions will be recreated. Some may be taken down. There could be

:13:52.:13:58.

some new ones. I think Nato itself, and certainly the Defence Secretary

:13:59.:14:01.

will have discussions with Donald Trump about how Nato can be

:14:02.:14:06.

reshaped, and maybe there will be more burden sharing. That is an

:14:07.:14:10.

important thing for him. You are tipped to be the US ambassador to

:14:11.:14:15.

Brussels, to the EU, and we are still waiting to hear if that will

:14:16.:14:20.

happen. Is it true to say that Mr Trump does not believe in EU

:14:21.:14:26.

integration? I think you made that clear in the speech. He talked about

:14:27.:14:36.

supranational. He does not believe in those kinds of organisations. He

:14:37.:14:42.

is investing himself in bilateral relationships, the first of which

:14:43.:14:47.

will be with the UK. So we have a president who does not believe in EU

:14:48.:14:52.

integration and has been highly critical of Nato. Do the people he

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has appointed to defend, Secretary of State, national security, do you

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think that will temper this anti-NATO wretched? Will he come

:15:03.:15:08.

round to a more pro-NATO situation? I think those of us who care about

:15:09.:15:14.

America's situation in the world will come in to miss President Obama

:15:15.:15:21.

a lot. I think the Secretary of State and the faculty of defence

:15:22.:15:24.

will limit the damage and will urge him not to take formal steps to

:15:25.:15:29.

unravel this most powerful and most successful alliance in history, the

:15:30.:15:34.

Nato alliance. But the damage is already being done. When you are the

:15:35.:15:41.

leader of the West, leadership means you are persuading, encouraging,

:15:42.:15:45.

bolstering your leadership and these institutions by the way you speak.

:15:46.:15:50.

Millions, if not hundreds of millions of people, have now heard

:15:51.:15:55.

the US say that what they care about is within their borders.

:15:56.:15:59.

What do you say to that? It is such an overstatement. The point is that

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Donald Trump is in a Jacksonian tradition of national populism. He

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is appealing to the people first. The other day, I was sitting below

:16:17.:16:21.

this page during the address, and he said, everyone sitting behind me as

:16:22.:16:24.

part of the problem. Everyone in front of me, the crowd and the crowd

:16:25.:16:28.

on television, is part of the solution, so we are giving the

:16:29.:16:32.

Government back to the people. That emphasis is going to change American

:16:33.:16:36.

life, including American International relations. It doesn't

:16:37.:16:43.

moving the leak back -- it doesn't mean we are moving out of Nato, it

:16:44.:16:48.

simply means we will put our national interests first. There were

:16:49.:16:53.

echoes of Andrew Jackson's inauguration address of 1820. That

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night, the Jacksonians trashed the White House, but Mr Trump's people

:17:00.:17:03.

didn't do that, so there is a difference there. He also said

:17:04.:17:08.

something else in the address - that protectionism would lead to

:17:09.:17:12.

prosperity. I would suggest there is no evidence for that in the post-war

:17:13.:17:18.

world. He talked about protecting the American worker, American jobs,

:17:19.:17:24.

the American economy. I actually think that Donald Trump will not

:17:25.:17:31.

turn out to be a protectionist. If you read the heart of the deal...

:17:32.:17:38.

This is referring to two Republican senators who introduce massive

:17:39.:17:40.

tariffs in the Hoover administration. Exactly. If you read

:17:41.:17:50.

The Art Of The Deal, you will see how Donald Trump deals with

:17:51.:17:54.

individuals and countries. There is a lot of bluster, positioning, and I

:17:55.:18:00.

think you already see this in bringing jobs by the United States.

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Things are going to change. Let's also deal with this proposition.

:18:05.:18:08.

China is the biggest loser of this election result. Let me say this:

:18:09.:18:15.

The first time in American history and American president has set forth

:18:16.:18:23.

his view of the world, and it is a mercantile view of the world, who

:18:24.:18:29.

makes more money, who gets more trade, it doesn't look at the shared

:18:30.:18:34.

values, leadership and defends the world needs. The art of the deal has

:18:35.:18:38.

no application to America's leadership of the world, that's what

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we're learning. You can be a great businessman and make great real

:18:42.:18:47.

estate deals - whether he did not is debatable - but it has nothing to do

:18:48.:18:50.

with inspiring shared values from the West. You saying China may lose,

:18:51.:18:56.

because he may pressure them to reduce their trade deficit with the

:18:57.:19:01.

US. They may or may not. We may both lose. Right now, his Secretary of

:19:02.:19:06.

State has said, and I think he will walk this back when he is brief,

:19:07.:19:10.

that they will prevent the Chinese from entering these islands in the

:19:11.:19:15.

South China Sea. If they were to do that, it would be a blockade, and

:19:16.:19:19.

there would be a shooting war between the United States and China,

:19:20.:19:24.

so US - China relations are the most important bilateral relationship of

:19:25.:19:27.

the United States, and they don't lend themselves to the bluff and

:19:28.:19:31.

bluster that may have worked when you are trying to get a big building

:19:32.:19:37.

on second Ave in Manhattan. Is China the biggest loser? I think the

:19:38.:19:44.

Chinese have a lot to lose. Gigi and Ping was in Davos this week -- Xi

:19:45.:19:55.

Jin Ping was in Davos. Is Germany the second biggest loser

:19:56.:20:05.

in the sense that I understand he hasn't agreed time to see Angela

:20:06.:20:09.

Merkel yet, also that those close to him believe that Germany is guilty

:20:10.:20:16.

of currency manipulation by adopting a weak your row instead of the

:20:17.:20:20.

strong Deutschmark, and that that is why they are running a huge balance

:20:21.:20:24.

of payments surplus with the United States. American - German relations

:20:25.:20:30.

may not be great. There is a point of view throughout Europe. You only

:20:31.:20:35.

have to talk to the southern Europeans about this question. It

:20:36.:20:40.

seems like the euro has been aligned to benefit Germany. Joe Stiglitz,

:20:41.:20:44.

the famous left of centre Democrat economist, made the same case in a

:20:45.:20:51.

recent book. In this case, I think Germany will be put under the

:20:52.:20:55.

spotlight. Angela Merkel has shown herself to be the most respected and

:20:56.:20:59.

the most successful leader in Europe. We who care about the West,

:21:00.:21:05.

who care about the shared values of the West, should pray and hope that

:21:06.:21:09.

she is re-elected. This isn't about dollars and cents. We're living in a

:21:10.:21:14.

time whether Russian leader has another country in Europe and for

:21:15.:21:19.

some inexplicable reason, the American president, who can use his

:21:20.:21:25.

insult diplomacy on everyone, including Mrs Merkel, the only

:21:26.:21:31.

person he can't seem to find anything to criticise about is Mr

:21:32.:21:35.

Putin. There are things more important than the actual details of

:21:36.:21:38.

your currency. There are things like preventing another war in Europe,

:21:39.:21:42.

preventing a war between the Chinese and the US. You talk about the

:21:43.:21:49.

Trident missile all morning, nuclear deterrence is extremely important.

:21:50.:21:53.

It doesn't lend itself to the bluff and bluster of a real estate deal. I

:21:54.:21:57.

understand all that, but the fact we are even talking about these things

:21:58.:22:00.

shows the new world we are moving into. I'd like to get you both to

:22:01.:22:06.

react to this. This is a man that ended the Bush Dynasty, a man that

:22:07.:22:14.

beat the Clinton machine. In his inauguration, not only did he not

:22:15.:22:17.

reach out to the Democrats, he didn't even mention the Republicans.

:22:18.:22:22.

These are changed days for us. They are, and change can be good or

:22:23.:22:26.

disastrous. I'm worried that it's easy in the world of diplomacy and

:22:27.:22:31.

in them -- for the leadership of the United States to break relationships

:22:32.:22:36.

and ruin alliances. These are things that were carefully nurtured. George

:22:37.:22:45.

Schultz, the American Secretary of State under Reagan talked about

:22:46.:22:49.

gardening, the slow, careful creation of a place with bilateral

:22:50.:22:54.

relationships that were blossoming and flowering multilateral

:22:55.:22:56.

relationships that take decades to create, and he will throw them away

:22:57.:22:59.

in a matter of days. The final word... I work for George Schultz.

:23:00.:23:06.

He was a Marine who stood up America, defended America, who would

:23:07.:23:10.

be in favour of many of the things that Donald Trump and the tramp

:23:11.:23:15.

Administration... Give him a call. His top aide macs that I've spoken

:23:16.:23:20.

to are appalled by Mr Trump's abdication of leadership. He is

:23:21.:23:25.

going to our radically -- he's going to eradicate extremist Islam from

:23:26.:23:33.

the face of the year. Is that realistic? I know people in the

:23:34.:23:36.

national security realm have worked on a plan. They say they will have

:23:37.:23:40.

such a plan in some detail within 90 days. Lets hope they succeed. We

:23:41.:23:49.

have run out of time. As a issues. Thank you, both. -- fascinating

:23:50.:23:50.

issues. So Theresa May promised a big speech

:23:51.:23:54.

on Brexit, and this week - perhaps against expectation -

:23:55.:23:57.

she delivered, trying to answer claims that the government didn't

:23:58.:23:59.

have a plan with an explicit wish-list of what she hopes to

:24:00.:24:02.

achieve in negotiations with the EU. To her allies it was ambitious,

:24:03.:24:05.

bold, optimistic - to her opponents it was full

:24:06.:24:07.

of contradictions Here's Adam again, with a reminder

:24:08.:24:09.

of the speech and how There are speeches,

:24:10.:24:12.

and there are speeches. Like Theresa May's 12 principles

:24:13.:24:17.

for a Brexit deal leading to the UK fully out of the EU

:24:18.:24:21.

but still friendly in terms This agreement should allow

:24:22.:24:24.

for the freest possible trade in goods and services between

:24:25.:24:28.

Britain and the EU's member states. It should give British

:24:29.:24:30.

companies the maximum operate within European markets

:24:31.:24:36.

and let European businesses do She also said no deal would be

:24:37.:24:39.

better than the wrong deal, We want to test what people think

:24:40.:24:47.

about what she's just said. Do we have any of our

:24:48.:25:03.

future negotiating As the European Parliament

:25:04.:25:05.

voted for its new president, its chief

:25:06.:25:10.

negotiator sounded off. Saying, OK, if our European

:25:11.:25:18.

counterparts don't accept it, we're going to make

:25:19.:25:20.

from Britain a sort of free zone or tax haven,

:25:21.:25:23.

I The Prime Minister of Malta,

:25:24.:25:25.

the country that's assumed the EU's rotating presidency,

:25:26.:25:32.

spoke in sorrow and a bit of anger. We want a fair deal

:25:33.:25:35.

for the United Kingdom, but that deal necessarily needs to be

:25:36.:25:39.

inferior to membership. Next, let's hear

:25:40.:25:49.

from some enthusiastic leavers, like, I don't

:25:50.:25:51.

know, the Daily Mail? The paper lapped it up

:25:52.:25:57.

with this adoring front page. For Brexiteers, it was

:25:58.:26:00.

all manna from heaven. I think today means we are a big

:26:01.:26:04.

step closer to becoming an independent country again,

:26:05.:26:06.

with control of our own laws, I was chuckling at some of it,

:26:07.:26:09.

to be honest, because There were various phrases there

:26:10.:26:15.

which I've used myself again and Do we have any of those

:26:16.:26:19.

so-called Remoaners? There will, at the end

:26:20.:26:24.

of this deal process, so politicians get to vote

:26:25.:26:26.

on the stitch-up, but We take the view as

:26:27.:26:30.

Liberal Democrats that if this process started

:26:31.:26:33.

with democracy last June, We trusted the people

:26:34.:26:35.

with departure, we must trust them Do we have anyone from

:26:36.:26:39.

Labour, or are you all watching it in a small

:26:40.:26:45.

room somewhere? Throughout the speech, there seemed

:26:46.:26:47.

to be an implied threat that somewhere along the line,

:26:48.:26:55.

if all her optimism of a deal with the European Union didn't work,

:26:56.:26:58.

we would move into a low-tax, corporate taxation,

:26:59.:27:00.

bargain-basement economy on the I think she needs to be

:27:01.:27:02.

a bit clearer about what The Labour leader

:27:03.:27:06.

suggested he'd tell his MPs to vote in favour

:27:07.:27:13.

of starting a Brexit process if Parliament was given the choice,

:27:14.:27:16.

sparking a mini pre-revolt among Finally, do we have anyone

:27:17.:27:18.

from big business here? Of course, your all in Davos

:27:19.:27:24.

at the World Economic Clarity, first of all, really

:27:25.:27:33.

codified what many of us have been anticipating since

:27:34.:27:43.

the referendum result, particularly around

:27:44.:27:45.

the I think what we've also seen

:27:46.:27:46.

today is the Government's willingness to put a bit of edge

:27:47.:27:50.

into the negotiating dynamic, and I Trade negotiations are negotiations,

:27:51.:27:53.

and you have to lay out, and you have to be pretty tough

:27:54.:27:58.

to get what you want. Although some business people

:27:59.:28:00.

on the slopes speculated about moving some of their

:28:01.:28:02.

operations out of Brexit Britain. We saw there the instant reaction

:28:03.:28:05.

of Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn, but how will the party respond

:28:06.:28:23.

to the challenge posed by Brexit Well, I'm joined now by the Shadow

:28:24.:28:26.

Home Secretary, Diane Abbott. People know that Ukip and the Tories

:28:27.:28:35.

are for Brexit. The Lib Dems are four remain. What is Labour for? For

:28:36.:28:40.

respecting the result of the referendum. It was a 72% turnout,

:28:41.:28:46.

very high for an election of that nature, and we believe you have to

:28:47.:28:49.

respect that result. You couldn't have a situation where people like

:28:50.:28:53.

Tim Farron are saying to people, millions of people, sorry, you got

:28:54.:28:57.

it wrong, we in London no better. However, how the Tories go forward

:28:58.:29:02.

from here has to be subject to parliamentary scrutiny. Is it Shadow

:29:03.:29:08.

Cabinet policy to vote for the triggering of Article 50? Our policy

:29:09.:29:13.

is not to block Article 50. That is what the leader was saying this

:29:14.:29:20.

morning. So are you for it? Our policy is not to block it. You are

:29:21.:29:25.

talking about voting for it. We don't know what the Supreme Court is

:29:26.:29:31.

going to say, and we don't know what legislation Government will bring

:29:32.:29:33.

forward, and we don't know what amendment we will move, but we're

:29:34.:29:39.

clear that we will not vote to block it. OK, so you won't bow to stop it,

:29:40.:29:43.

but you could abstain? No, what we will do... Either you vote for or

:29:44.:29:51.

against all you abstain. There are too many unanswered questions. For

:29:52.:29:55.

instance, the position of EU migrants working and living in this

:29:56.:30:00.

country. You may not get the answer to that before Article 50 comes

:30:01.:30:04.

before the Commons, so what would you do then? We are giving to amend

:30:05.:30:09.

it. We can only tell you exactly how we will amend it when we understand

:30:10.:30:13.

what sort of legislation the Government is putting forward, and

:30:14.:30:17.

in the course of moving those amendments, we will ask the

:30:18.:30:21.

questions that the people of Britain whether they voted to leave remain

:30:22.:30:22.

want answered. When you come to a collective view,

:30:23.:30:33.

will there be a three line whip? I can't tell you, because we have not

:30:34.:30:37.

seen the government 's legislation. But when you see it, you will come

:30:38.:30:45.

to a collective view. Many regard this as extremely important. Will

:30:46.:30:49.

there be a three line whip on Labour's collective view? Because it

:30:50.:30:54.

is important, we shouldn't get ahead of ourselves. When we see what the

:30:55.:30:59.

Supreme Court says, and crucially, when we see what the government

:31:00.:31:04.

position is, you will hear what the whipping is. Will shadow ministers

:31:05.:31:09.

be able to defy any three line whip on this? That is not normally the

:31:10.:31:16.

case. But they did on an early vote that the government introduced on

:31:17.:31:21.

Article 50. Those who voted against it are still there. In the Blair

:31:22.:31:26.

years, you certainly couldn't defy a three line whip. We will see what

:31:27.:31:31.

happens going forward. I remember when the Tories were hopelessly

:31:32.:31:37.

divided over the EU. All these Maastricht votes and an list

:31:38.:31:41.

arguments. Now it is Labour. Just another symptom of Mr Corbyn's poor

:31:42.:31:54.

leadership. Not at all. Two thirds voted to leave, a third to remain.

:31:55.:31:59.

We are seeking to bring the country and the party together. We will do

:32:00.:32:04.

that by pointing out how disastrous a Tory Brexit would be. Meanwhile,

:32:05.:32:15.

around 80 Labour MPs will defy a three line whip. It's too early to

:32:16.:32:20.

say that. Will you publish what you believe the negotiating goal should

:32:21.:32:25.

be? We are clear on it. We think that the economy, jobs and living

:32:26.:32:30.

standards should be the priority. What Theresa May is saying is that

:32:31.:32:35.

holding her party together is her priority. She is putting party above

:32:36.:32:41.

country. Does Labour think we should remain members of the single market?

:32:42.:32:47.

Ideally, in terms of jobs and the economy, of course. Ritt -ish

:32:48.:32:53.

business thinks that as well. Is Labour policy that we should remain

:32:54.:32:56.

a member of the single market? Labour leaves that jobs and the

:32:57.:33:01.

economy comes first, and if they come first, you would want to remain

:33:02.:33:07.

part of the single market. But to remain a member? Jobs and the

:33:08.:33:13.

economy comes first, and to do that, ideally, guess. So with that, comes

:33:14.:33:19.

free movement of people, the jurisdiction of the European, and a

:33:20.:33:23.

multi-million never shipped thief. Is Labour prepared to pay that?

:33:24.:33:32.

Money is neither here nor there. Because the Tories will be asked to

:33:33.:33:40.

pay a lot of money... The EU has made it clear that you cannot

:33:41.:33:46.

have... I am asking for Labour's position. Our position is rooted in

:33:47.:33:52.

the reality, and the reality is that you cannot have the benefits of the

:33:53.:33:56.

member of the European Union, including being a member of the

:33:57.:34:00.

single market, without responsibility, including free

:34:01.:34:05.

movement of people. Free movement, is remaining under the jurisdiction

:34:06.:34:10.

of the European Court of Justice. Is that the Labour position? You've

:34:11.:34:17.

said that Labour wants to remain a member of the single market. That is

:34:18.:34:22.

the price tag that comes with it. Does Labour agree with paying that

:34:23.:34:28.

price tag? We are not pre-empting negotiation. Our goals are protect

:34:29.:34:33.

jobs and the British economy. Is it Labour's position that we remain a

:34:34.:34:38.

member of the customs union? Well, if we don't, I don't see how Theresa

:34:39.:34:52.

May can keep our promises and has unfettered access... You said

:34:53.:34:57.

Labour's position was clear. It is! It is clear that Theresa May... I am

:34:58.:35:05.

not asking about Theresa May. Is it Labour's position to remain a member

:35:06.:35:12.

of the customs union? It is Labour's position to do what is right for

:35:13.:35:17.

British industry. Depending on how the negotiations go, it may prove

:35:18.:35:22.

that coming out of the customs union, as Theresa May has indicated

:35:23.:35:26.

she wants to do, could prove catastrophic, and could actually

:35:27.:35:33.

destroy some of her promises. You do accept that if we are member of the

:35:34.:35:37.

customs union, we cannot do our own free trade deals? What free trade

:35:38.:35:46.

deals are you talking about? The ones that Labour might want to do in

:35:47.:35:52.

the future. First, we have to protect British jobs and British

:35:53.:35:56.

industries. If you are talking about free trade deals with Donald Trump,

:35:57.:36:00.

the danger is that Theresa May will get drawn into a free-trade deal

:36:01.:36:05.

with America that will open up the NHS to American corporate... The

:36:06.:36:12.

cards are in Theresa May's hands. If she takes us out of the single

:36:13.:36:17.

market, if she takes us out of the customs union, we will have to deal

:36:18.:36:21.

with that. How big a crisis for Jeremy Corbyn will be if Labour

:36:22.:36:27.

loses both by-elections in February. I don't believe we will lose both.

:36:28.:36:33.

But if he did? I am not anticipating that. Is Labour lost two seats in a

:36:34.:36:42.

midterm of a Tory government, would that be business as usual? I'm not

:36:43.:36:45.

prepared to see us lose those seats, so I will not talk about something

:36:46.:36:47.

that will not happen. Thank you. You're watching

:36:48.:36:51.

the Sunday Politics. We say goodbye to viewers

:36:52.:36:52.

in Scotland, who leave us now Coming up here in 20

:36:53.:36:55.

minutes, The Week Ahead, when we'll be talking

:36:56.:36:58.

to Business Minister Margot James about the government's

:36:59.:37:00.

new industrial strategy and that crucial Supreme Court

:37:01.:37:03.

ruling on Brexit. Hello.

:37:04.:37:06.

Politics where you are. Welcome to Sunday

:37:07.:37:17.

Politics in the West. Coming up, is it one mayor too many,

:37:18.:37:20.

we've got Lord Mayors and elected mayors, soon will get a West

:37:21.:37:23.

of England Metro Mayor. And there's also a new American

:37:24.:37:29.

president, of course, We did think of inviting him

:37:30.:37:32.

on the programme today, but he's probably building

:37:33.:37:36.

a wall somewhere! And anyway, we are only interested

:37:37.:37:38.

in A-listers on our little show. So we have two people

:37:39.:37:42.

who for one big in Bristol, they are Charlotte Leslie

:37:43.:37:45.

for the Conservatives, Charlotte, do you think that

:37:46.:37:47.

Donald Trump can make I think expectations are so low,

:37:48.:37:53.

maybe we are going to be I think we have to keep calm

:37:54.:37:58.

and carry on, not panic. He is there for a reason,

:37:59.:38:04.

people might lament yesteryear, when Obama was there,

:38:05.:38:09.

but that regime is what led I think we just have

:38:10.:38:13.

to see what happens. And he speaks, obviously,

:38:14.:38:16.

he does speak for a lot And I think it's a mistake

:38:17.:38:25.

to dismiss all those How he's going to respond

:38:26.:38:28.

is going to be very interesting. We just have to try and make

:38:29.:38:34.

the most of whatever happens. People have been out saying,

:38:35.:38:37.

build bridges and all that, do you think we should

:38:38.:38:42.

give him a chance? He's been elected president, and,

:38:43.:38:45.

like it or not, he's there. For the duration, well,

:38:46.:38:52.

possibly not for the duration. But, you know, it is hugely

:38:53.:38:55.

depressing, particularly when I don't agree with Charlotte,

:38:56.:39:00.

she says that Obama's eight years has led to this,

:39:01.:39:02.

you've got to remember that Hillary Clinton actually got nearly

:39:03.:39:05.

3 million more votes than tempted. But he did connect

:39:06.:39:08.

with the working class. He connected with a

:39:09.:39:11.

particular demographic. You must look at Jeremy Corbyn

:39:12.:39:14.

and think well if a billionaire can connect with the working classes why

:39:15.:39:17.

can't Mr Corbyn? There's always this odd thing,

:39:18.:39:20.

it's like Nigel Farage was public school educated,

:39:21.:39:22.

a stockbroker, very wealthy. He is somehow seen as the voice

:39:23.:39:24.

of the working class in the UK because he's photographed drinking

:39:25.:39:28.

a pint of beer. There's a real issue

:39:29.:39:30.

about a disconnect between certainly the left, the appeal

:39:31.:39:32.

the Metropolitan voters, if you like, and then

:39:33.:39:37.

the vote to the post People that lost their jobs

:39:38.:39:42.

in the big factories, there's not that sense

:39:43.:39:48.

of cohesion anymore. I would say his message

:39:49.:39:50.

is all about who he hates, You know, Obama was about hope,

:39:51.:39:59.

Clinton was about hope, and I just think Obama was such

:40:00.:40:03.

a decent, dignified man, I would hope that Trump doesn't just

:40:04.:40:06.

destroy that legacy. Brexit means Brexit,

:40:07.:40:11.

used to be the catch phrase trotted out to deflect difficult questions

:40:12.:40:15.

about the future outside the EU. But this week as the Prime Minister

:40:16.:40:20.

shed more light on the issue, if you know you're single market

:40:21.:40:24.

from your customs union then But businesses here

:40:25.:40:27.

have been complaining What I am proposing cannot mean

:40:28.:40:30.

membership of the single market. It was the week when her

:40:31.:40:40.

words echoed across We will pursue a bold and ambitious

:40:41.:40:42.

free trade agreement Brexit must mean control

:40:43.:40:46.

of the number of people who come No deal for Britain is better

:40:47.:40:54.

than a bad deal for Britain. Assembling such a complex trade deal

:40:55.:41:01.

inside two years will require this But while we wait for negotiations

:41:02.:41:04.

to start changes already happening. Speak to any firm in the West that

:41:05.:41:13.

does business with Europe and they'll tell you that Brexit

:41:14.:41:16.

is already having It's down to the weakening value

:41:17.:41:18.

of this, British Sterling, These caravans are being

:41:19.:41:22.

fitted with a German Since the referendum last June

:41:23.:41:28.

there's been a 15% rise That is being passed

:41:29.:41:34.

on to the customer with the price tag for a new caravan

:41:35.:41:39.

or motorhome up 5%. The costs might be rising,

:41:40.:41:43.

but bosses remain upbeat. One of the upsides for us

:41:44.:41:47.

is a weaker pound means that overseas holidays

:41:48.:41:50.

are more expensive. As a result people will holiday

:41:51.:41:53.

in the UK which is good for us. The staycation phenomenon

:41:54.:41:56.

will continue. A weak pound makes life tougher

:41:57.:41:59.

for those who import goods, but businesses that this food

:42:00.:42:02.

and drinks then in Bristol are being Look what the pound

:42:03.:42:05.

has done since Brexit. The pound has never been as weak,

:42:06.:42:12.

well, not for decades, Our products, people

:42:13.:42:16.

love our products, they've just got There is no legislation at the

:42:17.:42:21.

moment, or very little, crack on! Political turbulence isn't

:42:22.:42:27.

to everyone's taste. The bank, HSBC, is moving

:42:28.:42:30.

a thousand UK staff to Paris. At this clothing distribution

:42:31.:42:33.

business near Bristol Boss, Charlie Allen,

:42:34.:42:39.

isn't taking on new staff For him, any end to free trade

:42:40.:42:44.

might mean moving some At the moment he ships

:42:45.:42:50.

in skateboarding clothes from China to Bristol,

:42:51.:42:55.

where they are hit He then distribute them

:42:56.:42:57.

on to markets across the EU. The single market means

:42:58.:43:02.

he pays no further fees. But he worries Brexit might mean

:43:03.:43:06.

new trade barriers with Europe, which is why he has costed out

:43:07.:43:10.

starting up a new warehouse It's a decision we weren't

:43:11.:43:13.

making until we can see We hope to be able to keep

:43:14.:43:19.

all of our warehousing here. But it all hinges

:43:20.:43:25.

on those negotiations. One third come from Europe,

:43:26.:43:28.

and he's offered to pay for them He says it's to reassure them

:43:29.:43:34.

that they can carry on living here. I preferred it when we just used

:43:35.:43:40.

to sell skateboards, Ultimately, it's hardly huge

:43:41.:43:42.

impact our business. In London and on the Swiss Alps this

:43:43.:43:49.

week the Prime Minister But still not clear enough for some

:43:50.:43:56.

West Country businesses feeling That was Robin Barkwell, Charlotte,

:43:57.:44:04.

what mandate has the Prime Minister got for a hard Brexit

:44:05.:44:08.

when the country was pretty evenly split on whether we

:44:09.:44:12.

should leave the EU? I think you can rehearse

:44:13.:44:15.

whether a referendum result means a referendum result,

:44:16.:44:18.

there was a majority We do face a challenge of a very

:44:19.:44:21.

divided country now with a section But was she right to say out

:44:22.:44:25.

of the single market, possibly out of the customs union,

:44:26.:44:29.

the whole works. The independent think tank,

:44:30.:44:31.

told Europe, which has been neutral on this,

:44:32.:44:35.

and just pragmatic, said that her speech

:44:36.:44:37.

was a masterclass in common sense. And I think what she was doing

:44:38.:44:39.

is looking at the realities and doing her best to make it

:44:40.:44:42.

work for Britain. You can't base what you want to do

:44:43.:44:45.

one a fantasy, however much you might want the world to be

:44:46.:44:48.

something else, it isn't. As we saw in your clip,

:44:49.:44:51.

there are difficult challenges to overcome, but there arch

:44:52.:44:53.

two members upsides. Particularly for Britain, but also,

:44:54.:44:57.

for emerging economies like Africa, for whom Europe has been a real

:44:58.:45:01.

barrier to trade. Britain now has a chance to deal

:45:02.:45:03.

with them and help lift those I think the problem

:45:04.:45:06.

was that we still, we had a little bit more clarity from Theresa May,

:45:07.:45:14.

but she just outlined 12 She's now got to go around 27

:45:15.:45:17.

European countries and get I simply don't think she's

:45:18.:45:23.

going to get, you know, it was a very positive speech

:45:24.:45:27.

about this new era. These countries aren't

:45:28.:45:29.

going to sign away... We can't go into this negotiation

:45:30.:45:33.

saying we want all the good bits, and we don't want any of the bits

:45:34.:45:36.

we don't like. That still seems to be

:45:37.:45:39.

the negotiation stance. Is there anything at all

:45:40.:45:42.

that she is prepared to give up, because we want complete access

:45:43.:45:45.

to the market, we don't want to pay anything into it,

:45:46.:45:47.

we don't want free movement. I think they really important point

:45:48.:45:50.

she made is that a lot of this, a of the success of Europe,

:45:51.:45:55.

she said we want a strong Europe, It hasn't been said

:45:56.:45:59.

enough in the past. She was saying, look,

:46:00.:46:02.

we are up for being pragmatic. And we really want

:46:03.:46:05.

you to succeed as well. And, actually, an awful lot of this

:46:06.:46:08.

is a choice for Europe, whether it wants to punish us

:46:09.:46:14.

because it are proud of its project, or whether it wants

:46:15.:46:17.

prosperity and pragmatism. So the pragmatic thing is for them

:46:18.:46:19.

to give us everything, The pragmatic thing is to do a deal

:46:20.:46:24.

whereby we do well, they do well. Often it said that Britain want

:46:25.:46:30.

something for it so that other countries don't want,

:46:31.:46:34.

but Britain, I think, would say to any other country

:46:35.:46:36.

in Europe that wants to play to its strengths and not be part

:46:37.:46:38.

of a homogenous group together, you can do

:46:39.:46:41.

that as well. Kerry, do you accept that this

:46:42.:46:43.

was a debate about immigration? This is what Theresa May,

:46:44.:46:48.

sort of, understands. I think, certainly,

:46:49.:46:51.

during the referendum campaign a lot of people who voted leave voted

:46:52.:46:55.

because they had concerns about the level of

:46:56.:46:57.

immigration in this country. I think that is something that does

:46:58.:47:01.

have to be addressed. This is why the whole discussion

:47:02.:47:03.

about membership of the single market would mean you sign up

:47:04.:47:09.

to the full freedoms which would I think almost everybody accepts

:47:10.:47:12.

that we do have two address that. But you also have to acknowledge

:47:13.:47:17.

that a lot of the businesses, we heard from a business on that

:47:18.:47:20.

clip that has a lot of European Food sector, farming sector,

:47:21.:47:24.

across the south-west, there are workers that depend

:47:25.:47:28.

on that Labour. That leads very neatly

:47:29.:47:32.

to the next question. Do you accept that you got it

:47:33.:47:37.

wrong on immigration, Do you think it should be cut back

:47:38.:47:39.

drastically from Europe? Or should we continue

:47:40.:47:46.

to have free movement? It's difficult to unpick

:47:47.:47:48.

because you have... It is, because your party,

:47:49.:47:55.

in the Bristol scenario a lot of immigration would be people,

:47:56.:48:01.

refugees, asylum seekers, We are talking about people

:48:02.:48:03.

moving from Europe. When people voted and expressed

:48:04.:48:09.

concerns at immigration they weren't just talking

:48:10.:48:13.

about Eastern European immigration. They were talking about

:48:14.:48:16.

immigration across the board. You do have to look

:48:17.:48:18.

at it in the round. I think that what hasn't been

:48:19.:48:22.

answered is how we square that, where people, sometimes,

:48:23.:48:25.

justified, sometimes unjustified concerns about immigration,

:48:26.:48:31.

how do you square that I'm none the wiser, really,

:48:32.:48:34.

about whether you think there should Yes, I think we need

:48:35.:48:39.

European workers. I think there are so

:48:40.:48:42.

many businesses... I'm not saying that they shouldn't

:48:43.:48:44.

be some restrictions, but I am saying that we cannot just

:48:45.:48:48.

close the doors One word answers from you both,

:48:49.:48:51.

will you vote to trigger Article 50? I think, unless Theresa May comes

:48:52.:48:56.

forward with the white paper with clarity, unless she explains

:48:57.:49:05.

how on earth she thinks she's going to manage to get this deal

:49:06.:49:08.

on the table with about 18 Mr Corbyn said on Friday

:49:09.:49:12.

that he expected all Labour MPs to support the triggering

:49:13.:49:15.

of article 50. I think it's a serious issue,

:49:16.:49:17.

but I'm going to give it 900,000 people in the West will soon

:49:18.:49:40.

be getting a brand-new type of political leader, a Metro Mayor in

:49:41.:49:46.

May. Voters will go to the polls in South Gloucestershire, Bath, North

:49:47.:49:49.

East Somerset and Bristol. Most candidates have been chosen for what

:49:50.:49:54.

should be a high-profile job. They may struggle to get voters

:49:55.:49:58.

interested. The West already has plenty of

:49:59.:50:02.

Mayor. Most perform ceremonial roles in the town and cities. The

:50:03.:50:09.

collected Mayor so far is in Bristol. The new Metro Mayor will be

:50:10.:50:14.

different, covering Bristol, South Gloucestershire and Bath and North

:50:15.:50:19.

East Somerset. But with separate powers from central government over

:50:20.:50:22.

things like transport, planning and adult education. That has so far

:50:23.:50:27.

failed to make an impact on many voters.

:50:28.:50:32.

To be honest I don't know. I've heard that there is a process,

:50:33.:50:37.

but I don't know what it is. These three areas have different

:50:38.:50:39.

needs. It doesn't seem a good idea to me.

:50:40.:50:46.

No. Not aware. It's different for those involved in

:50:47.:50:51.

the West's politics. They have been focused on it since they voted for

:50:52.:50:55.

the change last summer. They know the result is far from a foregone

:50:56.:50:58.

conclusion. Based on the votes cast across the

:50:59.:51:03.

sea council areas in the last general election the Conservatives,

:51:04.:51:06.

who came well ahead, reckon they are favourites for the contest. But go

:51:07.:51:12.

back to 2010 and the Lib Dems came first. Labour know the area can be

:51:13.:51:16.

good for them. They got the most votes in the three previous general

:51:17.:51:20.

elections. Local elections usually see the

:51:21.:51:23.

party and government suffer at the polls. The Conservatives hope to

:51:24.:51:27.

buck that trend. There was a smile on the face of Tim Bowles who was

:51:28.:51:33.

yesterday chosen as their candidate. Genuinely absolutely thrilled and

:51:34.:51:37.

humbled. It was an amazing turnout. A to reflect thing to see so many

:51:38.:51:42.

people. I know the other candidates got to know them well. They were to

:51:43.:51:47.

whether brilliant candidates and I was really surprised to learn from

:51:48.:51:50.

every body else how many other good quality candidates we had.

:51:51.:51:56.

Labour's selection of Leslie Mansell has pleased the other parties.

:51:57.:52:01.

Especially the Liberal Democrats. Two are competing to be their

:52:02.:52:04.

candidate, council leader Simon Clark and ex-Bristol West MP Stephen

:52:05.:52:09.

Williams who feels they are on the up.

:52:10.:52:12.

Ask me a year ago could the Liberal Democrats aspire to win an election

:52:13.:52:16.

across the West country I would have said no. We need more time to

:52:17.:52:22.

recover. Maybe by 2020 we will have done, but the referendum vote, the

:52:23.:52:27.

Brexit outcome has transformed British politics.

:52:28.:52:36.

Morale is very, very bullish. There is a smile back on our faces. We've

:52:37.:52:38.

stopped being disillusioned and stopped being disillusioned and

:52:39.:52:40.

disgruntled. We are going to win. Ukip's candidate is Aaron foot. They

:52:41.:52:44.

are likely to concentrate on other more winnable contest. The Greens

:52:45.:52:50.

have selected former Parliamentary candidate for Bristol West.

:52:51.:52:55.

I think Bristol and Bath is one of those places where people are aware

:52:56.:53:00.

of the next generation. They are aware of the pressures from climate

:53:01.:53:03.

change. They are aware of the need for jobs that are resilient in the

:53:04.:53:06.

future. I think we've got a good opportunity in the Bristol and Bath

:53:07.:53:09.

area. All will now be getting about

:53:10.:53:13.

campaigning, but the hardest task may not be winning electors over as

:53:14.:53:18.

getting them to actually vote. The biggest problem is that this is

:53:19.:53:22.

going to be the fourth election for the electorate in two years. I

:53:23.:53:27.

strongly suspect that we could see turnouts fall below 20%. That is

:53:28.:53:34.

going to be very difficult for all the parties.

:53:35.:53:37.

The candidates have just over 100 days to sell themselves around the

:53:38.:53:42.

new role to the people of the West. So we've got another election coming

:53:43.:53:48.

up. Does anybody want a Metro Mayor? We want the things they could

:53:49.:53:52.

accomplish. Such as what? A joined up transport

:53:53.:53:57.

strategy for the region. Don't be ridiculous! I'd like to

:53:58.:54:02.

think that a Metro Mayor could accomplish that.

:54:03.:54:06.

Would they be senior to the Bristol Mayor?

:54:07.:54:11.

One of the arguments for a Mayor and Bristol know that the public know

:54:12.:54:18.

who is accountable. Marvin is well-established. People know who

:54:19.:54:23.

they are. I worry that the Metro Mayor will be an obscure person and

:54:24.:54:27.

no one is quite sure who they are or what they do.

:54:28.:54:28.

You won't have that accountability. You won't have that accountability.

:54:29.:54:33.

Who your candidate Leslie Mansell. Would you put her in that category?

:54:34.:54:40.

It isn't about the individual. It's about the way it is structured. How

:54:41.:54:45.

do you establish yourself in such a role? Anyone will find it difficult

:54:46.:54:49.

because people won't understand. It might be that once they are imposed,

:54:50.:54:54.

you see this with police and crime commission is, we get low turnouts,

:54:55.:54:58.

and the lot of people just don't realise why they are there and what

:54:59.:55:00.

they are doing. It's a bit of a democratic deficit.

:55:01.:55:06.

That is a reasonable point, isn't it? Voter fatigue, and we've got a

:55:07.:55:12.

Mayor, why do we want another one? It's having another election, do

:55:13.:55:17.

people know what this other Mayor is? That's a big effort to explain

:55:18.:55:21.

to people and not long to do it. This is the first time the role is

:55:22.:55:25.

there, we'll be voting again and next time people will have an idea

:55:26.:55:30.

who they are. Secondly, what this Mayor can do to make the roll their

:55:31.:55:34.

own. I think there is huge potential. Bristol's region

:55:35.:55:39.

misanthrope again and again because we haven't spoken together.

:55:40.:55:46.

But we could have had a transport authority in the other big cities

:55:47.:55:48.

have always had these passenger transport executive 's. You could

:55:49.:55:53.

have had leaders coming together. We've always tried to do it on an ad

:55:54.:55:58.

hoc basis. You will remember anyone, is this a way of bringing back an

:55:59.:56:03.

evil authority which can look at the big issues across a wide area? --

:56:04.:56:09.

Avon authority. We both campaigned for transport

:56:10.:56:13.

authority but it didn't happen. Maybe the Metro Mayor will enable

:56:14.:56:20.

the change to take place. I think it was sort of imposed on people. At

:56:21.:56:26.

had a referendum. We were the only had a referendum. We were the only

:56:27.:56:30.

city, all the others rejected the idea.

:56:31.:56:34.

We've been pushed into this. Bad personality, whoever it is, will

:56:35.:56:37.

have to come to a working arrangement with the leaders of the

:56:38.:56:42.

other, smaller authorities, given the historic differences between

:56:43.:56:45.

local authorities that won't be easy.

:56:46.:56:48.

It may not be easy, but I think they Metro Mayor could be in a good

:56:49.:56:54.

position to do that. They key task should be to bring areas that think

:56:55.:56:55.

they are different to be a wider region.

:56:56.:57:02.

Would you go for it? I wouldn't, I'm happy being an MP.

:57:03.:57:04.

I have more than enough to keep me I have more than enough to keep me

:57:05.:57:07.

busy for a while yet. So that they may be? It's a no!

:57:08.:57:15.

Now, let's take a whistle-stop tour of the news this week in 60 seconds.

:57:16.:57:24.

Bristol's other banks become Aaron Banks launched an antiestablishment

:57:25.:57:28.

website, the Brexit campaigners said West Munster would shake up the

:57:29.:57:33.

media. He was among a handful of Brits to go to Donald Trump 's's

:57:34.:57:37.

inauguration. He won't be afraid to bring in that other people don't

:57:38.:57:41.

find very palatable. The man in charge of promoting

:57:42.:57:44.

businesses in Somerset about a row by getting a 26% pay rise. Local

:57:45.:57:50.

enterprise partnership said it put Chris Garcia's salary in line with

:57:51.:57:54.

reverence. Somerset Council leader claimed it

:57:55.:57:57.

was out of touch. Councillors in Bath say they are now looking at

:57:58.:58:01.

just two sites for the city's new park and ride. They will decide next

:58:02.:58:05.

week. Campaigners oppose both. And more councils announced inflation

:58:06.:58:13.

tax rises, they will all be charging 3.5% more. They save money is needed

:58:14.:58:22.

to social care. -- to fund social care. That was the week, it has

:58:23.:58:29.

flown by. Let's talk about council tax than this referendum suggesting

:58:30.:58:34.

a very large increase in the tax. Is that something Labour would support?

:58:35.:58:39.

After all, you've been asking for better public services for years.

:58:40.:58:48.

What we want is very funding. The problem with devolutionist

:58:49.:58:52.

austerities that poorer communities aren't able to raise as much as the

:58:53.:58:56.

wealthier committees but are the ones that probably have more need

:58:57.:59:01.

for services. It can be unfair. It's always a combination of local

:59:02.:59:04.

funding, but National funding as well. That's why we're making case

:59:05.:59:10.

for a Meno, government funding, to support what Bristol needs. Marvin

:59:11.:59:14.

has got fined ?100 million with cuts in five years, that's sustainable.

:59:15.:59:19.

Charlotte, is very excuse for continued austerity and local

:59:20.:59:22.

government? We had to make efficiencies.

:59:23.:59:26.

Interestingly, the area of the country having the rest around them,

:59:27.:59:29.

if they are at their council tax they will still be below the average

:59:30.:59:34.

national council tax. They have had real efficiencies, they are only

:59:35.:59:37.

rising their tax to an average level. I think Bristol council still

:59:38.:59:43.

has the enormous efficiencies it could make.

:59:44.:59:48.

Name one. I'd like to see what they spend on consultancies and

:59:49.:59:53.

recruitment agencies. We will ask them. That is it from the West this

:59:54.:59:58.

week, my thanks to my guest, Charlotte Leslie and Kerry McCarthy.

:59:59.:00:01.

Follow us on Twitter for the latest news from the West. Catch up on my

:00:02.:00:06.

player, this would be available there. For now, back

:00:07.:00:09.

have to do this. Thank you to you both.

:00:10.:00:12.

What exactly is the government's industrial strategy?

:00:13.:00:22.

Will ministers lose their supreme court battle over Brexit, and,

:00:23.:00:26.

Well, tomorrow Theresa May is launching the government's

:00:27.:00:38.

industrial strategy - and to talk about that we're joined

:00:39.:00:41.

by the Business Minister, Margot James - welcome to the show.

:00:42.:00:49.

When you look at what has already been released in advance of the

:00:50.:00:56.

Prime Minister's statement, it was embargoed for last night, it's not

:00:57.:01:02.

really an industrial strategy, it's just another skills strategy, of

:01:03.:01:06.

which we have had about six since the war, and our skills training is

:01:07.:01:13.

among the worst in Western Europe? There will be plenty more to be

:01:14.:01:17.

announced tomorrow in what is really a discussion document in the

:01:18.:01:21.

preparation of an industrial strategy which we intend to launch

:01:22.:01:25.

properly later in the year. Let's look at skills. You are allocating

:01:26.:01:34.

117 of funding to establish institutes of technology. How many?

:01:35.:01:40.

The exact number is to be agreed, but the spend is there, and it will

:01:41.:01:46.

be on top of what we are doing to the university, technical

:01:47.:01:49.

colleges... How many were lit bio create? We don't know exactly, but

:01:50.:01:55.

we want to put them in areas where young people are performing under

:01:56.:01:59.

the national average. But if you don't know how many, what is the

:02:00.:02:06.

basis of 170 million? That is the amount the Treasury have released.

:02:07.:02:10.

The something that is very important, we are agreed we need to

:02:11.:02:15.

devote more resources to vocational training and get it on a par with

:02:16.:02:21.

academic qualifications. I looked on the website of my old university,

:02:22.:02:27.

the University of Glasgow, the Russell group universities. Its

:02:28.:02:32.

spending budget every year is over 600 million. That's one University.

:02:33.:02:40.

And yet you have a mere 170 million foreign unspecified number of

:02:41.:02:45.

institutes of technology. It hasn't got equality with the academics? You

:02:46.:02:50.

have to remember that just as you have quoted figures from Glasgow

:02:51.:02:54.

University there are further education colleges all over the

:02:55.:02:58.

country. The government is already spending on 16 to 19-year-olds. But

:02:59.:03:07.

also, we are going to be adding... This is new money that is all to the

:03:08.:03:12.

good, because we are already spending a lot. We have already

:03:13.:03:17.

created 2 million more apprentices since 2010. That many are not in

:03:18.:03:21.

what we would call the stem skills, and a lot come nowhere near what the

:03:22.:03:26.

Dutch, Germans and Austrians would have. I'm not clear how another 170

:03:27.:03:32.

million would do. You said it is more than skills. In what way is

:03:33.:03:37.

this industrial strategy different from what Mr Cameron and Mr Osborne

:03:38.:03:48.

did before? It's different because it is involving every single

:03:49.:03:50.

government department, and bringing together everything that government

:03:51.:03:53.

does in a bid to make Britain more competitive as it disengages from

:03:54.:03:56.

the European Union. That is what the last Labour government did. They

:03:57.:04:02.

will much more targeted interventions. Under the Labour

:04:03.:04:06.

government, the auto industry got some benefit. A few more sectors

:04:07.:04:11.

were broached under the coalition government. This is all about

:04:12.:04:15.

communities all over the country, some of whom have fallen behind in

:04:16.:04:20.

terms of wage growth and good jobs. The Prime Minister has already

:04:21.:04:26.

announced 2 billion as a research and development priority in specific

:04:27.:04:33.

technologies, robotics, artificial intelligence, medical technology,

:04:34.:04:37.

satellites... So you are doing what has been done before. There is

:04:38.:04:42.

nothing new about this. Wait until tomorrow, because there will be some

:04:43.:04:47.

new strands emerging. It is the beginning of the dialogue with

:04:48.:04:50.

industry and with workers, and the responses will be invited up until

:04:51.:04:57.

April. That will inform a wider strategy that goes beyond skills. I

:04:58.:05:02.

have moved on to beyond them. I'm slightly puzzled as to how the

:05:03.:05:07.

government knows where to invest in robotics, when it can't even provide

:05:08.:05:13.

the NHS with a decent IT system. Discuss. I have to say I find it

:05:14.:05:18.

bizarre that the government is making an announcement about an

:05:19.:05:21.

amount of money and don't know where it's going. This is typical of all

:05:22.:05:26.

governments over all political shoes, which is total disregard for

:05:27.:05:32.

technical education, so different from Germany, who actually invest in

:05:33.:05:40.

the technological side. Germany has a long history. We want to emulate

:05:41.:05:46.

some of the best of what German companies do. Siemens sponsor

:05:47.:05:51.

primary schools, for example. We want to get a dialogue on with

:05:52.:05:57.

business. We don't want to decide where this money is going. By the

:05:58.:06:02.

way, it was 4.7 billion that the government has agreed to invest in

:06:03.:06:07.

science and research, which is the most significant increase in

:06:08.:06:11.

decades. Can you remind us what happened in Northern Ireland, when

:06:12.:06:15.

the government invested money in state-of-the-art technology for

:06:16.:06:19.

energy? No one needs to be reminded of that, and that is not what we are

:06:20.:06:26.

doing. We are inviting business and industry to advise where that money

:06:27.:06:31.

is best spent. That's very different from government deciding that a

:06:32.:06:37.

particular technology is for the future. The government's chief

:06:38.:06:42.

scientific adviser has determined that we will invest a huge amount in

:06:43.:06:47.

battery technology, which should benefit the electric car industry,

:06:48.:06:53.

and... This is taxpayers' money. Who gets it? Ultimately, business will

:06:54.:06:59.

get it, but often only when there is a considerable amount of private

:07:00.:07:04.

sector finance also drawn in. But who is held to account? Various

:07:05.:07:12.

government departments at local authorities will hold this list to

:07:13.:07:17.

account. A lot of it is about releasing private capital as well.

:07:18.:07:24.

Thank you very much. This week, the Supreme Court, I think we know the

:07:25.:07:31.

ruling is coming on Tuesday. And the expectation is that the judges will

:07:32.:07:35.

say Parliament will have to vote to trigger. Is this all much ado about

:07:36.:07:40.

nothing? Parliament will vote to trigger, and the government will win

:07:41.:07:44.

in the Lords and the Commons by substantial majorities, and it will

:07:45.:07:48.

be triggered? Completely. We've known that. Parliament is voted.

:07:49.:07:53.

Everyone is pretty confident that the Supreme Court will uphold the

:07:54.:07:57.

High Court's decision and say it has to go to MPs. There will be a bit of

:07:58.:08:06.

toing and froing among MPs on amendments. You heard Diane Abbott's

:08:07.:08:11.

slightly car crash interview there. The Lib Dems may throw something in,

:08:12.:08:15.

but we will trigger Article 50 by the end of March. If it also says

:08:16.:08:22.

that the roll of Edinburgh, Cardiff and Belfast should be picked up,

:08:23.:08:27.

that could complicate matters. Absolutely. That could delay the

:08:28.:08:31.

planned triggering of Article 50 before the end of March. Not what

:08:32.:08:36.

they say about the Westminster Parliament, because it is clear that

:08:37.:08:41.

it was. I never understood the furore about that original judgment,

:08:42.:08:46.

because every MP made it clear they wouldn't block it. Even though Diane

:08:47.:08:50.

Abbott was evasive on several fronts, she said they wouldn't block

:08:51.:08:56.

it. You are right, if they give a vote, or give some authorisation for

:08:57.:09:00.

the Scottish Parliament and other devolved assemblies, that might

:09:01.:09:05.

delay the whole sequence. That is the only significant thing to watch

:09:06.:09:11.

out for. Watch out on Tuesday. Mrs May goes to Washington. It will be

:09:12.:09:16.

another movie in the making! I would suggest that she has a tricky line

:09:17.:09:21.

to follow. She has got to be seen to be taking advantage of the fact that

:09:22.:09:26.

there is a very pro-British, pro-Brexit president in the Oval

:09:27.:09:31.

Office, who I am told is prepared to expend political capital on this.

:09:32.:09:35.

But on the other hand, to make sure that she is not what we used to call

:09:36.:09:48.

Mr Blair, George Bush's poodle. It is very difficult, and who would not

:09:49.:09:51.

want to be a fly on the wall in that meeting! I can't think of anyone in

:09:52.:09:55.

the world who would despise Mr Trump more than Mrs May, and for him, he

:09:56.:10:00.

dislikes any woman who does not look like a supermodel, no disrespected

:10:01.:10:11.

Mrs May. Most of it is actually anti-EU, and I think we should

:10:12.:10:14.

capitalise it. Let's get the Queen to earn her money, roll out the red

:10:15.:10:19.

carpet, invite him to dinner, spend the night, what ever we need...

:10:20.:10:27.

Trump at Balmoral! Here is the issue, because the agenda is, as we

:10:28.:10:31.

heard from Ted Malloch earlier, that this is not an administration that

:10:32.:10:37.

has much time for the EU, EU integration or Germany. I think

:10:38.:10:40.

Germany will be the second biggest loser to begin with. They will not

:10:41.:10:45.

even give a date for Angela Merkel to meet the president. This is an

:10:46.:10:53.

opportunity for Mrs May... It is a huge. It could sideline talks of the

:10:54.:11:02.

punishment beating from Germany. The Trump presidency has completely

:11:03.:11:08.

changed the field on Brexit. Along came Donald Trump, and Theresa May

:11:09.:11:12.

has this incredible opportunity here. Not of her making, but she has

:11:13.:11:18.

played her cards well. To an officially be the EU emissary to

:11:19.:11:23.

Washington, to get some sort of broker going. That gives us huge

:11:24.:11:28.

extra leveraged in the Brexit negotiations. People around the

:11:29.:11:32.

world think Germany as a currency manipulator, that it is benefiting

:11:33.:11:37.

from an underpriced euro, hence the huge surplus it runs of America, and

:11:38.:11:41.

they think it is disgraceful that a country that runs a massive budget

:11:42.:11:47.

surplus spends only 1.2% of its GDP on defence, and America runs a

:11:48.:11:52.

massive deficit and needs to spend a lot more. He's going for Germany.

:11:53.:11:58.

And what a massive shift. I think Obama was quite open, in a farewell

:11:59.:12:03.

interview, that he felt closer to Merkel than any other European

:12:04.:12:08.

leader. And Jamie kind of reflected that in our discussion. Yes, that's

:12:09.:12:15.

very interesting discussion. I think she was the last person he spoke to

:12:16.:12:19.

in the White House, Obama. And now you are getting the onslaught from

:12:20.:12:26.

Trump. This Thatcher- Reagan imagery is dangerous, though. Blair was

:12:27.:12:30.

hypnotised by it and was too scared to criticise Bush, because he wanted

:12:31.:12:35.

to be seen in that light, and we know where that led. Cameron

:12:36.:12:41.

similarly with Obama, which presented him with problems, as

:12:42.:12:44.

Obama didn't regard him as his number one pin up in Europe. I would

:12:45.:12:51.

put a note of caution in there about the Thatcher - Reagan parallel.

:12:52.:12:56.

Everything Trump is doing now is different from before, so Mrs May

:12:57.:13:01.

should not have any of these previous relationships in her mind.

:13:02.:13:07.

That is not entirely true. Donald Trump aches to be the new Ronald

:13:08.:13:14.

Reagan. He may be impeached first! He sees her as the new Margaret

:13:15.:13:18.

Thatcher, and that may her leveraged with him. Thank you.

:13:19.:13:26.

We'll be back here at the same time next week, and you can catch up

:13:27.:13:31.

on all the latest political news on the Daily Politics,

:13:32.:13:33.

In the meantime, remember - if it's Sunday,

:13:34.:13:37.

It's just pain, but it doesn't feel like pain,

:13:38.:14:15.

it feels much more violent, dark and exciting.

:14:16.:14:40.

Join Michael Buerk as he explores the dishes fit for kings and queens.

:14:41.:14:45.

Andrew Neil, David Garmston and guests including shadow home secretary Diane Abbott provide reaction to Theresa May's Brexit speech and look at the inauguration of US president Donald Trump. On the political panel are Julia Hartley-Brewer of talkRadio, Tom Newton Dunn of the Sun and broadcaster and journalist Steve Richards.