Browse content similar to 19/03/2017. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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It's Sunday morning and this is the Sunday Politics. | :00:36. | :00:38. | |
She faces huge political fights over Brexit, Scottish independence, | :00:39. | :00:42. | |
After a tumultuous political week, we'll analyse the PM's prospects. | :00:43. | :00:55. | |
With chatter increasing about a possible early General Election, | :00:56. | :00:57. | |
Jeremy Corbyn's campaign chief joins me live. | :00:58. | :01:01. | |
NHS bosses warn health services in England are facing "mission | :01:02. | :01:05. | |
impossible" and waiting times for operations will rocket, | :01:06. | :01:09. | |
unless hospitals are given more cash this year. | :01:10. | :01:12. | |
In the west, down on the farm, do Providers joins me live. | :01:13. | :01:22. | |
In the west, down on the farm, do food producers know what leaving the | :01:23. | :01:23. | |
EU really means or did All that to come before 12:15pm, | :01:24. | :01:27. | |
and I'll also be talking to the former leader | :01:28. | :01:37. | |
of the Liberal Democrats Nick Clegg from his party's spring | :01:38. | :01:40. | |
conference in York. With me here in the studio, | :01:41. | :01:42. | |
throughout the programme, three of the country's top political | :01:43. | :01:47. | |
commentators: Tom Newton Dunn, | :01:48. | :01:48. | |
Isabel Oakeshott and Steve Richards. They'll be tweeting their | :01:49. | :01:54. | |
thoughts using #bbcsp. So, the political challenges facing | :01:55. | :01:56. | |
Theresa May are stacking up. As well as negotiating | :01:57. | :01:59. | |
Britain's exit from the EU, the PM must now deal with SNP | :02:00. | :02:05. | |
demands for a second referendum on Scottish independence, | :02:06. | :02:08. | |
backbenchers agitating against cuts to school budgets, and a humiliated | :02:09. | :02:12. | |
Chancellor forced to u-turn on a key budget measure just one week | :02:13. | :02:16. | |
after announcing it. Here's Adam Fleming | :02:17. | :02:21. | |
on aturbulent political week Monday, 11:30am, TV crews gather | :02:22. | :02:22. | |
in the residence of the First Minister of Scotland, | :02:23. | :02:39. | |
who's got a surprise. She wants a vote on whether Scotland | :02:40. | :02:41. | |
should leave the UK By taking the steps I have set out | :02:42. | :02:43. | |
today I am ensuring that Scotland's future will be decided, | :02:44. | :02:48. | |
not just by me, the Scottish Government, | :02:49. | :02:50. | |
or the SNP, it will be decided | :02:51. | :02:51. | |
by the people of Scotland. Westminster, 6:25pm | :02:52. | :02:54. | |
the same day, MPs reject amendments to the legislation | :02:55. | :03:04. | |
authorising the Prime Minister to The Bill ceremonially heads | :03:05. | :03:07. | |
to the Lords where peers abandoned attempts to change it | :03:08. | :03:21. | |
and it becomes law. But Downing Street doesn't trigger | :03:22. | :03:23. | |
Article 50 as many had expected. Some say they were spooked | :03:24. | :03:30. | |
by Nicola Sturgeon. We get an e-mail from | :03:31. | :03:33. | |
the Treasury can the We get an e-mail from | :03:34. | :03:49. | |
the Treasury cancelling the planned rise in | :03:50. | :03:51. | |
National Insurance for the self-employed | :03:52. | :04:02. | |
announced the budget. It's just minutes before | :04:03. | :04:04. | |
Prime Minister's Questions at noon. The trend towards greater | :04:05. | :04:05. | |
self-employment does create a We will bring forward | :04:06. | :04:08. | |
further proposals but we will not bring forward | :04:09. | :04:10. | |
increases to NICs later in this It seems to me like a government | :04:11. | :04:13. | |
in a bit of chaos here. By making this change today | :04:14. | :04:17. | |
we are listening to our colleagues fulfil both the letter | :04:18. | :04:20. | |
and the spirit of our manifesto tax Thursday, 7am, Conservative | :04:21. | :04:24. | |
campaign HQ and the Electoral Commission fines the party | :04:25. | :04:33. | |
?70,000 for misreporting spending But that's not what | :04:34. | :04:36. | |
the Prime Minister Because at 12:19pm she | :04:37. | :04:38. | |
gives her verdict on a We should be working | :04:39. | :04:45. | |
together, not pulling apart. We should be working | :04:46. | :04:50. | |
together to get that right deal for Scotland, | :04:51. | :04:52. | |
that So, as I say, that's my job | :04:53. | :04:53. | |
as Prime Minister and so for that reason I say to the SNP | :04:54. | :04:58. | |
now is not the time. Friday and time for | :04:59. | :05:01. | |
the faithful to gather. SNP activists at their | :05:02. | :05:04. | |
spring conference Conservatives in Cardiff | :05:05. | :05:05. | |
to hear the Prime Minister promote her plan for a more | :05:06. | :05:16. | |
meritocratic Brexit Britain. At 11:10am comes some news | :05:17. | :05:20. | |
about a newspaper that's frankly I'm thrilled and excited to be | :05:21. | :05:22. | |
the new editor of The Evening Standard and, | :05:23. | :05:28. | |
you know, with so many big issues in our world | :05:29. | :05:30. | |
what good analysis, great news | :05:31. | :05:32. | |
journalism. It's a really important time | :05:33. | :05:38. | |
for good journalism that The Evening Standard | :05:39. | :05:42. | |
is going to provide. There was no let-up yesterday | :05:43. | :05:44. | |
as Gordon Brown launched proposals Under my proposals | :05:45. | :05:51. | |
we keep the Barnett Formula, we keep the fiscal | :05:52. | :05:56. | |
transfers, but we also bring the and fisheries back to the Scottish | :05:57. | :06:00. | |
Parliament. And just think, all this and we're | :06:01. | :06:04. | |
still counting down to the What a week in politics. It has been | :06:05. | :06:23. | |
a torrid week for the government, Isabel Oakeshott, but does Theresa | :06:24. | :06:27. | |
May shake it off, or is this a sign of worse to come? We may all be | :06:28. | :06:31. | |
feeling a bit breathless after the events of last week and we are in | :06:32. | :06:38. | |
for a a long war of attrition with the SNP, Nicola Sturgeon's strategy | :06:39. | :06:42. | |
will be to foster over lengthy periods of time as much resentment | :06:43. | :06:47. | |
and anger as she can in Scotland and try to create the impression that | :06:48. | :06:52. | |
independence is somehow inevitable. Is Scotland the biggest challenge | :06:53. | :06:56. | |
for Theresa May in the next year or so? I think it probably is because | :06:57. | :07:00. | |
if you look at how relatively easily the Brexit bill went through on an | :07:01. | :07:03. | |
issue where people could hardly feel more passionate in the Commons, and | :07:04. | :07:07. | |
actually despite all the potential drama it has gone through quite | :07:08. | :07:10. | |
smoothly. To go back to your original question, she just carries | :07:11. | :07:16. | |
on. Don't underestimate the basic quiet and will towards Theresa May | :07:17. | :07:21. | |
amongst the majority of Tory backbenchers. Yes, there are | :07:22. | :07:24. | |
difficult little issues over school funding, sorry, it's not a little | :07:25. | :07:28. | |
issue, it is a big one but she will get over that and treat each thing | :07:29. | :07:33. | |
as it comes and keep pressing on. Has she not called Nicola Sturgeon's | :07:34. | :07:35. | |
Bluff in that the First Minister said I want a referendum, here is | :07:36. | :07:41. | |
roughly when I wanted, the Prime Minister says you're not having one. | :07:42. | :07:46. | |
What happens next? She has done quite well and impact the progress | :07:47. | :07:50. | |
Theresa May made this week in frustrating Nicola Sturgeon was | :07:51. | :07:54. | |
evident when Nicola Sturgeon said, OK, maybe we can talk about the | :07:55. | :07:57. | |
timing after. Nicola Sturgeon has already been the first one to blink. | :07:58. | :08:01. | |
I would slightly disagree with Isabel Oakeshott, I don't agree | :08:02. | :08:05. | |
Scotland will be the biggest hurdle for her. What this week showed as is | :08:06. | :08:10. | |
Theresa May... It was a reality bites week. Theresa May is juggling | :08:11. | :08:14. | |
four mammoth crises at the same time, Brexit obviously which I still | :08:15. | :08:17. | |
think will be the biggest challenge to get a good deal, Trump left field | :08:18. | :08:24. | |
who popped up at GCHQ on Friday and Scotland and the fiscal challenge, | :08:25. | :08:28. | |
this enormous great problem, and it reinforced the point this is not an | :08:29. | :08:35. | |
easy time in politics. The budget is over four years. That was one small | :08:36. | :08:38. | |
problem, the immediate problem is how to fill the social care crisis | :08:39. | :08:42. | |
and the ageing demographic. This is not normal times in British politics | :08:43. | :08:45. | |
and Theresa May does not have a normal workload on her plate, hence | :08:46. | :08:49. | |
why I think we will see more mistakes made as time goes on and as | :08:50. | :08:53. | |
she has this almost impossible workload to juggle. How tempted do | :08:54. | :08:59. | |
you think the Prime Minister is to call an early election? There is | :09:00. | :09:03. | |
more chatter about it now. Is she tempted and if there is will she | :09:04. | :09:07. | |
succumb? I will answer that in a second as Harold Wilson used to say. | :09:08. | :09:10. | |
I want to agree, disagree with the rest of the panel about how she has | :09:11. | :09:14. | |
out manipulated Nicola Sturgeon this week. I think Nicola Sturgeon | :09:15. | :09:19. | |
expected Theresa May to say no to her expected timetable. It would be | :09:20. | :09:22. | |
amazing if she had said yes. She expected her to say no but Sturgeon | :09:23. | :09:27. | |
catalyst that will fuel support for her cause. There is no sign of that. | :09:28. | :09:34. | |
The latest poll this morning shows 66-44 against independence and only | :09:35. | :09:37. | |
13% think they would be better off with an independent Scotland and a | :09:38. | :09:42. | |
clear majority do not want a second referendum. But the calculation of | :09:43. | :09:46. | |
resistance from Westminster combined with Brexit which hasn't started | :09:47. | :09:49. | |
yet, I think this is her calculation, she didn't expect | :09:50. | :09:53. | |
Theresa May to say, sure, go ahead, I'm sure she expected Theresa May to | :09:54. | :09:58. | |
say no, you can't have it at your desired timetable. On the wider | :09:59. | :10:02. | |
point, I think Theresa May is in a fascinating position, she is both | :10:03. | :10:05. | |
strong because she faces weak opposition and is ahead in the | :10:06. | :10:09. | |
opinion polls. But faces the most daunting agenda of any Prime | :10:10. | :10:15. | |
Minister for 40 or 50 years, I think. So it's a weird combination. | :10:16. | :10:19. | |
I don't think she wants to call an election. I don't think she has | :10:20. | :10:22. | |
thought about how you would manipulate it, what the trigger | :10:23. | :10:26. | |
would be, and whether she's got the energy and space to prepare for and | :10:27. | :10:30. | |
then mount a campaign was beginning the Brexit negotiation. Now, you | :10:31. | :10:35. | |
could see the cause would be the small majorities that will make her | :10:36. | :10:40. | |
life hellish, which it will do. Whether a landslide would help is | :10:41. | :10:44. | |
another question, they can be difficult too. But I think the | :10:45. | :10:46. | |
problems outweigh the advantages of going early. Do you think she would | :10:47. | :10:52. | |
go for an early election? I don't and I think you have to look at the | :10:53. | :10:55. | |
rhetoric coming out of No 10 which is so firm on this question, it is a | :10:56. | :10:59. | |
delicious prospect for us as commentators to think there might be | :11:00. | :11:02. | |
an election around the corner but they are so firm on this I can't see | :11:03. | :11:07. | |
it happening. I agree, we are in unanimous agreement on this one. It | :11:08. | :11:10. | |
is superficially attractive because she would love the big majority and | :11:11. | :11:13. | |
she would get a lot more through Parliament especially with Brexit. | :11:14. | :11:17. | |
The nitty-gritty of it makes an early General Election this year | :11:18. | :11:20. | |
almost impossible. How do you write a manifesto on high Brexit versus | :11:21. | :11:26. | |
soft Brexit, it opens up a Pandora's box of uncertainties. And there is | :11:27. | :11:31. | |
enough with the European elections. The EU will say are we negotiating | :11:32. | :11:34. | |
with you or the person who may replace you? How do you keep the | :11:35. | :11:37. | |
Tory party united going to an election? How do you call one, with | :11:38. | :11:41. | |
a vote of no confidence in yourself you may end up losing. Easy on paper | :11:42. | :11:45. | |
but difficult in practice. We shall see. | :11:46. | :11:47. | |
So if Theresa May did go for an early election this spring, | :11:48. | :11:49. | |
The party's campaigns and elections chief Andrew Gwynne | :11:50. | :11:53. | |
Andrew Gwynne, the government, as we have just been talking about, | :11:54. | :12:01. | |
executed one of the most embarrassing U-turns in recent | :12:02. | :12:05. | |
history this week. It has been a torrid time for the Theresa May | :12:06. | :12:09. | |
government. Why are the Tories still so chipper? | :12:10. | :12:11. | |
The Labour Party has been on an early election footing since before | :12:12. | :12:16. | |
Christmas and we are preparing ourselves for that eventuality in | :12:17. | :12:20. | |
case that does come. That means that we've got to get ourselves into a | :12:21. | :12:25. | |
position whereby we can not only challenge the government but we can | :12:26. | :12:30. | |
also offer a valuable alternative for the British people to choose | :12:31. | :12:36. | |
from should that election arise. So, would you welcome an early General | :12:37. | :12:40. | |
Election? Well, of course, I don't want this government to be in power | :12:41. | :12:43. | |
so of course if there is an opportunity to put a case to the | :12:44. | :12:47. | |
British people as to why there is a better way, and I believe the Labour | :12:48. | :12:51. | |
way is the better way than of course we would want to put that case to | :12:52. | :12:55. | |
the country. So, would Labour vote in the Commons for an early | :12:56. | :13:01. | |
election? Well, of course as an opposition, not wanting to be in | :13:02. | :13:05. | |
opposition, wanting to be in government should the government put | :13:06. | :13:10. | |
forward a measure in accordance with the Fixed-term Parliaments Act then | :13:11. | :13:13. | |
that's something we would very seriously have to consider. I know | :13:14. | :13:16. | |
you would have to consider it but would you vote for an early election | :13:17. | :13:20. | |
or not? Well, of course we want to be the government so if the current | :13:21. | :13:24. | |
government puts forward measures to bring forward a General Election we | :13:25. | :13:28. | |
would want to put our case to the British public and that's one of the | :13:29. | :13:31. | |
jobs that I've been given, together Labour Party organisation early into | :13:32. | :13:37. | |
a position where we can fight a General Election -- | :13:38. | :13:41. | |
organisationally. For the avoidance of doubt, if the Government work to | :13:42. | :13:45. | |
issue a motion in the Commons for an early election, the Labour Party | :13:46. | :13:49. | |
would vote for an early election? It would be very difficult not, | :13:50. | :13:53. | |
Andrew. If the Government wants to dissolve parliament, wants a General | :13:54. | :13:57. | |
Election, we don't want the Tories in government, we want to be in | :13:58. | :14:00. | |
government and we want to have that opportunity to put that case to the | :14:01. | :14:03. | |
British people. Are you ready for an early election? | :14:04. | :14:12. | |
You say you have been on a war all but since the Labour conference last | :14:13. | :14:15. | |
autumn, but are you ready for one? How big is the election fighting | :14:16. | :14:17. | |
fund? We have substantial amounts of money in our fighting fund, that is | :14:18. | :14:21. | |
true, because not only has the Labour Party managed to eliminate | :14:22. | :14:28. | |
its own financial deficit that it inherited from previous election | :14:29. | :14:32. | |
campaigns, we have also managed to build up a substantial fund in the | :14:33. | :14:38. | |
off chance we have an election. We have also expanded massively | :14:39. | :14:44. | |
operations at Labour HQ, we are taking on additional staff, and one | :14:45. | :14:47. | |
of the jobs that myself and Ian Lavery who I job share with are | :14:48. | :14:52. | |
currently doing is to go around the Parliamentary Labour Party to make | :14:53. | :14:55. | |
sure that Labour colleagues have the support and the resources that they | :14:56. | :15:00. | |
need, should they have to face the electorate in their constituencies. | :15:01. | :15:03. | |
So you are on a war footing, ready for the fight, you say you would | :15:04. | :15:07. | |
vote for the fight, so have you got your tax and spend policies ready to | :15:08. | :15:13. | |
roll out? That is something the shadow Treasury team will be | :15:14. | :15:16. | |
discussing. One of the things is, if there is an early General Election, | :15:17. | :15:20. | |
the normal timetable for these things gets fast-track because our | :15:21. | :15:25. | |
policy decision-making body, its annual conference, we have the | :15:26. | :15:30. | |
national policy forum that creates policies suggestions. You have been | :15:31. | :15:33. | |
on a war footing since the last Labour conference, that is what Mr | :15:34. | :15:37. | |
Corbyn told us. So you must have a fair idea of what policies you would | :15:38. | :15:42. | |
fight an early election on. How much extra per year would you spend on | :15:43. | :15:46. | |
the NHS? Well, look, I'm not going to set out the Labour manifesto for | :15:47. | :15:50. | |
an election that hasn't been called. I'm just asking you about the NHS. | :15:51. | :15:55. | |
You must have a policy for that. We have a policy for the NHS. So how | :15:56. | :16:01. | |
much extra? I will not set out Labour's tax-and-spend policies here | :16:02. | :16:04. | |
on The Sunday Politics when there hasn't even been election called. | :16:05. | :16:08. | |
You said you had been on a war footing and you are prepared to vote | :16:09. | :16:13. | |
for one, so if you can't Tommy that, can you tell me what the corporation | :16:14. | :16:17. | |
rate tax on company profits be under a Labour government -- tell me that. | :16:18. | :16:25. | |
You will have to be patient. I have. And wait for Mrs May to trigger an | :16:26. | :16:28. | |
early election. If there is an election on the 4th of May the rich | :16:29. | :16:32. | |
would have to be issued on the 27th of March, so that's not long to | :16:33. | :16:37. | |
wait. If that date passes we aren't having an election on the 4th of May | :16:38. | :16:41. | |
and the normal timetable for policy development will continue. All | :16:42. | :16:46. | |
right. You lost Copeland, I think you were in charge of a by-election | :16:47. | :16:50. | |
for Labour, your national poll ratings are still dire, even after | :16:51. | :16:56. | |
week of terrible times for the Tories. Sometimes you even lose | :16:57. | :16:59. | |
local government by-elections in safe seats, including in the place | :17:00. | :17:04. | |
you are now, in Salford. How long does Mr Corbyn have to turn this | :17:05. | :17:09. | |
around? Well, look, the issue of the Labour leadership was settled last | :17:10. | :17:13. | |
year. The last thing the Labour Party now needs is another period of | :17:14. | :17:16. | |
introspection with the Labour Party merely talks to the Labour Party. We | :17:17. | :17:23. | |
are now on an election footing in case Mrs May does trigger an early | :17:24. | :17:27. | |
General Election. We need to be talking to the British people are | :17:28. | :17:32. | |
not to ourselves. So any speculation about the Labour leadership might | :17:33. | :17:37. | |
excite you in the media but actually for us in the Labour Party it's | :17:38. | :17:41. | |
about re-engaging and reconnecting with the voters. Rather than being | :17:42. | :17:45. | |
excited, I feel quite daunted at the prospect of an early election. So I | :17:46. | :17:50. | |
wouldn't get that right. Normally, given the number of mistakes this | :17:51. | :17:55. | |
government has made, and its mid-term, you would expect any | :17:56. | :17:57. | |
self-respecting opposition to be about ten points ahead. On the | :17:58. | :18:02. | |
latest polls this morning you are 17 behind. There is a 27-30 point gap | :18:03. | :18:09. | |
from where you should normally be as an opposition. Are you telling me | :18:10. | :18:12. | |
that if that doesn't change, you still fight the General Election | :18:13. | :18:13. | |
with Mr Corbyn? These are matters for the future. I | :18:14. | :18:23. | |
believe the leadership issue was settled last year. We have had two | :18:24. | :18:29. | |
leadership contest in two years. Would you seriously contemplate | :18:30. | :18:34. | |
going into the next election, if it is early I perfectly understand | :18:35. | :18:38. | |
Jeremy Corbyn is your man, but if it is not until 2020, and you are still | :18:39. | :18:43. | |
17 points behind in the polls, will you go into the next election like | :18:44. | :18:48. | |
that? There is a lot of future looking and speculation there, I | :18:49. | :18:57. | |
don't know what the future holds, where the Labour Party will be in 12 | :18:58. | :19:00. | |
months let alone by 2020 summit cross those bridges when we come to | :19:01. | :19:02. | |
it. My main challenge is to make sure the Labour Party is in the best | :19:03. | :19:06. | |
possible place organisationally to fight an election, that's my | :19:07. | :19:09. | |
challenge and I'm up for that to make sure we are in the best | :19:10. | :19:12. | |
possible place to make sure Labour returns as many Labour MPs as | :19:13. | :19:17. | |
possible. Thank you for joining us. And we're joined now | :19:18. | :19:23. | |
from the Liberal Democrats' spring conference in York by the former | :19:24. | :19:25. | |
Deputy Prime Minister Nick Clegg. Good morning. In his conference | :19:26. | :19:34. | |
speech today, Tim Farron lumps Theresa May with Vladimir Putin, | :19:35. | :19:38. | |
Marine Le Pen and Donald Trump. In what way is Mrs May similar to | :19:39. | :19:48. | |
Marine Le Pen? Of course he is not saying Theresa May is identical to | :19:49. | :19:51. | |
Marine Le Pen, I think what Tim Wilby spelling out shortly in his | :19:52. | :19:57. | |
speech is that we need to be aware what's going on in the world, the | :19:58. | :19:59. | |
International settlement that was arrived at after the First World -- | :20:00. | :20:10. | |
Second World War, that bound supranational organisations is under | :20:11. | :20:15. | |
attack from characters as diverse as Vladimir Putin, Marine Le Pen and | :20:16. | :20:19. | |
Donald Trump, and that by side in so ostentatiously with Donald Trump and | :20:20. | :20:23. | |
pursuing this very hard Brexit, Theresa May appears to be giving | :20:24. | :20:28. | |
succour to that much more isolationist chauvinist view of the | :20:29. | :20:32. | |
world than the multilateral approach that Britain has subscribed to for a | :20:33. | :20:38. | |
long time. The exact words he plans to use are welcome to the New World | :20:39. | :20:44. | |
order, Vladimir Putin, Donald Trump, Marine Le Pen, Theresa May, | :20:45. | :20:50. | |
aggressive and teenage to, anti-EU, nationalistic. In what way is Mrs | :20:51. | :20:56. | |
May fitting into any of that? In what way is she similar to Vladimir | :20:57. | :21:01. | |
Putin? I'm not aware she has interfered with other people's | :21:02. | :21:06. | |
elections. The clue is in the quote you just read out, which is the | :21:07. | :21:12. | |
world order. The world order over the last half century or more, by | :21:13. | :21:16. | |
the way a lesson I'm afraid we have to learn in Europe because of the | :21:17. | :21:20. | |
terrible bloodshed of two world was in the space of a few decades, was | :21:21. | :21:25. | |
based on the idea might is not right. Strong arm leaders cannot | :21:26. | :21:29. | |
throw their weight around. What we have now with Putin, the populism | :21:30. | :21:37. | |
across parts of Europe and Donald Trump who thinks the EU will unravel | :21:38. | :21:43. | |
is a shift to a radically different view of the world. Mrs May doesn't | :21:44. | :21:49. | |
think any of that. She is not antenatal, not anti-EU, she says she | :21:50. | :21:53. | |
wants the EU to succeed. She's not aggressive as far as I'm aware so | :21:54. | :21:58. | |
I'm not sure why you would lump the British Prime Minister in with these | :21:59. | :22:06. | |
other characters. Let me explain, by choosing this uncompromising | :22:07. | :22:10. | |
approach to Brexit, clearly in doing so she, in my view, maybe not yours | :22:11. | :22:16. | |
or others, is pursuing a self harming approach to the United | :22:17. | :22:20. | |
Kingdom but also pulling up the threads that bind the rest of the | :22:21. | :22:26. | |
European Union together, in so ostentatiously siding with Donald | :22:27. | :22:30. | |
Trump, somehow declaring in my view speciously that we can make up with | :22:31. | :22:39. | |
the trade we will lose, she's not challenging the shift to a more | :22:40. | :22:42. | |
chauvinist approach to world affairs that is happening in many places. | :22:43. | :22:47. | |
You are at your party's Spring conference, I think we can agree any | :22:48. | :22:52. | |
Lib Dem come back will take a long time. Would Tory dominance be more | :22:53. | :22:59. | |
effectively challenged by a realignment of the centre and the | :23:00. | :23:01. | |
centre-left? Are you working towards that? I missed half the question but | :23:02. | :23:07. | |
I think you are talking about a realignment. As a cook a way to get | :23:08. | :23:14. | |
over Tory dominance, would you want that to happen? Are you working | :23:15. | :23:20. | |
towards that? My view is the recovery of the Lib Dems will be | :23:21. | :23:23. | |
quicker than you suggest. People often forget that even the low point | :23:24. | :23:28. | |
of our fortunes in the last election we still got a million more votes | :23:29. | :23:32. | |
than the SNP, it's only because we have got this crazy electoral | :23:33. | :23:41. | |
system... But the SNP fight in Scotland, you fight in the whole | :23:42. | :23:47. | |
country! But I'm saying the way seats are allocated overlooks the | :23:48. | :23:55. | |
fact that 2.5 million still voted for us. But my own view is of course | :23:56. | :23:59. | |
there are people feeling increasingly homeless in the liberal | :24:00. | :24:03. | |
wing of the Conservative Party because they are now in a party | :24:04. | :24:07. | |
which is in effect indistinguishable from Ukip on some of the biggest | :24:08. | :24:14. | |
issues of the day, and homeless folk on the rational, reasonable wing of | :24:15. | :24:17. | |
the Labour Party. I would invite them to join the Liberal Democrats | :24:18. | :24:21. | |
and I would invite everyone across parties to talk about the idea is | :24:22. | :24:26. | |
that bind us because the Westminster village can invest a lot of energy | :24:27. | :24:31. | |
building new castles in the sky, inventing new names for parties when | :24:32. | :24:34. | |
actually what you want is for people on the progressive centre ground of | :24:35. | :24:41. | |
British politics to talk about the ideas that unite them, from the | :24:42. | :24:49. | |
dilemmas of artificial intelligence to climate change. Do you think in | :24:50. | :24:55. | |
your own view, can Brexit still be thwarted or is it now a matter of | :24:56. | :25:03. | |
getting the best terms? I think we are in an interlude, almost a calm | :25:04. | :25:07. | |
between two storms, the storm of the referendum itself and the collision | :25:08. | :25:12. | |
between the Government's stated ambitions for Brexit and the reality | :25:13. | :25:16. | |
of having to negotiate something unworkable with 27 other | :25:17. | :25:21. | |
governments. The one thing I can guarantee you is that what the | :25:22. | :25:24. | |
Government has promised to the British people cannot happen. Over a | :25:25. | :25:37. | |
slower period of time we will work out our new relationship with the | :25:38. | :25:41. | |
European Union. Theresa May said she will settle divorce arrangements, | :25:42. | :25:48. | |
and pensions, so one, negotiate new trade agreements, new climate change | :25:49. | :25:52. | |
policies and so on, and have all of that ratified within two years, that | :25:53. | :25:55. | |
will not happen so I think there will be a lot of turbulence in the | :25:56. | :26:01. | |
next couple of years. Will you use this turbulence to try to thwart | :26:02. | :26:06. | |
Brexit, to find a way of rolling back the decision? It's not about | :26:07. | :26:12. | |
repeating the debates of the past or thwarting the will of the people but | :26:13. | :26:16. | |
it is comparing what people were promised from the ?350 million for | :26:17. | :26:21. | |
the NHS every week through to this glittering array of new trade | :26:22. | :26:27. | |
agreements we will sign across the world, with the reality that will | :26:28. | :26:31. | |
transpire in the next couple of years and at that point, yes it is | :26:32. | :26:35. | |
my belief people should be able to take a second look at if that is | :26:36. | :26:40. | |
what they really want. A couple of quick questions, would you welcome | :26:41. | :26:49. | |
an early general election? I always welcome them, we couldn't do worse | :26:50. | :26:54. | |
than we did last time. That is certainly true. You have a column in | :26:55. | :26:58. | |
the Evening Standard, have you spoken to the new editor about | :26:59. | :27:02. | |
whether he will keep your column or spike it? No, I wait in nervous | :27:03. | :27:11. | |
anticipation. Can you be a newspaper editor in the morning and an MP in | :27:12. | :27:17. | |
the afternoon? Do I think that's feasible? Sorry, I missed a bit. | :27:18. | :27:22. | |
There is no prohibition, no law against MPs being editors. They have | :27:23. | :27:28. | |
been in the past and no doubt will again in the future. He is taking a | :27:29. | :27:35. | |
lot on, he is an editor, also wanting to be an MP, a jetsetting | :27:36. | :27:40. | |
academic in the States, working in the city, I suspect something will | :27:41. | :27:45. | |
give. It seems to me even by his self-confidence standards in his own | :27:46. | :27:49. | |
abilities I suspect he is taking on a little bit too much. Very | :27:50. | :27:54. | |
diplomatic, Mr Clegg, I'm sure you will get to keep the column. Thanks | :27:55. | :27:56. | |
for joining us. Now, for the last six months | :27:57. | :28:01. | |
England's NHS bosses have been warning the health service needs | :28:02. | :28:03. | |
more money to help it meet But in his first Budget, | :28:04. | :28:06. | |
the Chancellor offered no immediate relief, | :28:07. | :28:09. | |
and today the head of the organisation representing | :28:10. | :28:11. | |
England's NHS trusts says hundreds of thousands of patients will have | :28:12. | :28:13. | |
to wait longer for both emergency care and planned operations, | :28:14. | :28:16. | |
unless the Government Warnings over funding | :28:17. | :28:17. | |
are not exactly new. Back in 2014 the head of the NHS | :28:18. | :28:25. | |
in England, Simon Stevens, published his plan for the future | :28:26. | :28:28. | |
of the health service. In his five-year forward view, | :28:29. | :28:32. | |
Stevens said the NHS in England would face a funding shortfall of up | :28:33. | :28:35. | |
to ?30 billion by 2020. To bridge that gap he said the NHS | :28:36. | :28:38. | |
would need more money from the Government, | :28:39. | :28:41. | |
at least ?8 billion extra, and that the health service | :28:42. | :28:45. | |
could account for the rest by making The Government says it's given | :28:46. | :28:48. | |
the health service more than what it asked for, and that NHS | :28:49. | :28:55. | |
in England will have received That number is disputed by NHS | :28:56. | :28:57. | |
managers and the chair of Parliament's health committee, | :28:58. | :29:03. | |
who say the figure is more like ?4.5 billion, while other parts | :29:04. | :29:05. | |
of the health and social care budget have been cut, putting | :29:06. | :29:08. | |
pressure on the front line. Last year, two thirds of NHS | :29:09. | :29:14. | |
trusts in England finished the year in the red, | :29:15. | :29:17. | |
and despite emergency bailouts from the Government, | :29:18. | :29:20. | |
the NHS is likely to record Meanwhile national targets | :29:21. | :29:22. | |
on waiting times for A departments, diagnostic tests, | :29:23. | :29:27. | |
and operations are being This month's Budget provided | :29:28. | :29:29. | |
?2 billion for social care but there was no new cash | :29:30. | :29:37. | |
for the NHS, leading trusts to warn that patient care is beginning | :29:38. | :29:41. | |
to suffer, and what is being asked And I'm joined now by | :29:42. | :29:44. | |
the Chief Executive of NHS Providers in England, | :29:45. | :29:50. | |
Chris Hopson. Welcome to the programme. Morning, | :29:51. | :30:00. | |
Andrew. I will come onto the extra money you need to do your job | :30:01. | :30:04. | |
properly in a minute but first, part of the deal was you had to make 22 | :30:05. | :30:08. | |
billion in efficiency savings, not a bank that money but spend it on | :30:09. | :30:12. | |
patient care, the front line, and so on. How is that going? So, last | :30:13. | :30:17. | |
parliament we realised around 18 billion of productivity and | :30:18. | :30:20. | |
efficiency savings, we are realising more this year so we are on course | :30:21. | :30:25. | |
to realise 3 billion this year, that is a quarter of a billion more than | :30:26. | :30:29. | |
last year but all of us in the NHS knew the 22 billion would be a very | :30:30. | :30:33. | |
stretching target and we are somewhat inevitably falling short. | :30:34. | :30:38. | |
So it is 22 billion by 2,020. Roughly. That was the time. We are | :30:39. | :30:49. | |
now into 2017. So how much of the 22 billion have you achieved? We | :30:50. | :30:52. | |
realised around 3 billion last year and we will realise 3 billion this | :30:53. | :30:57. | |
year, Court of billion more, 3.25 billion this year, so we are on | :30:58. | :31:02. | |
course for 18-19,000,000,000. By the 2021 period? You are not that far | :31:03. | :31:07. | |
away. The problem is the degree to which demand is going up. We have | :31:08. | :31:11. | |
record demand over the winter period and that actually meant we have seen | :31:12. | :31:16. | |
more people than we have ever seen before but performance is still | :31:17. | :31:19. | |
under real pressure. Let me come onto that. When you agreed on the 22 | :31:20. | :31:25. | |
billion efficiency savings plus some extra money from the government, I | :31:26. | :31:29. | |
know there is a bit of an argument about how much that is actually | :31:30. | :31:34. | |
worth, had you not factored in this extra demand that you saw coming | :31:35. | :31:40. | |
over the next three or four years? Let's be very clear committee | :31:41. | :31:44. | |
referred to Simon Stevens's forward view and we signed up to it but the | :31:45. | :31:49. | |
22 billion was a process run at the centre of government by the | :31:50. | :31:51. | |
Department of Health with its arms length bodies, NHS England and | :31:52. | :31:55. | |
others and is not something that was consulted on with the NHS. But you | :31:56. | :32:00. | |
signed up to it. We always said that the day that that Spending Review | :32:01. | :32:05. | |
was announced, the idea that the NHS where customer demand goes up | :32:06. | :32:08. | |
something like four or 5% every year, the idea that in the middle | :32:09. | :32:12. | |
years of Parliament we would be able to provide the same level of service | :32:13. | :32:16. | |
when we were only getting funding increases of 1.3%, 0.4% and 0.7%, | :32:17. | :32:23. | |
and I can show you the press release we issued, we always said there was | :32:24. | :32:26. | |
going to be a gap and that we would not be able to deliver what was | :32:27. | :32:30. | |
required. The full 22 billion in other words? What we said to Simon | :32:31. | :32:36. | |
Stevens at the Public Accounts Committee a few months ago, the NHS | :32:37. | :32:41. | |
didn't get what it was asked for. Today the NHS, cope with the | :32:42. | :32:46. | |
resources it has according to you. How much more does it need? Are | :32:47. | :32:52. | |
reported is about 2017-18 and we estimate that what we are being | :32:53. | :32:56. | |
asked to do, and again, Andrew, you clearly set it out in the package, | :32:57. | :33:00. | |
we are a long way off the four-hour A target and a long way off the | :33:01. | :33:05. | |
92%. The waiting times and operations. How much more do you | :33:06. | :33:10. | |
need? And we are making up a ?900 million deficit. If you take all of | :33:11. | :33:13. | |
those into account we estimate you would need an extra ?3.5 billion | :33:14. | :33:18. | |
next year in order to deliver all of those targets and eliminate the | :33:19. | :33:23. | |
deficit. That would be 3.5 billion on top of what is already planned | :33:24. | :33:27. | |
next year and that would be 3.5 billion repeated in the years to | :33:28. | :33:31. | |
come too? Yes, Andrew it is important we should make an | :33:32. | :33:34. | |
important distinction about the NHS versus other public services. When | :33:35. | :33:40. | |
the last government, the last Labour government put extra money into the | :33:41. | :33:43. | |
NHS it clearly said that in return for that it would establish some | :33:44. | :33:48. | |
standards in the NHS Constitution, the 95% A target we have talked | :33:49. | :33:52. | |
about and the 92% elective surgery we have talked about. The trust we | :33:53. | :33:56. | |
represent are very clear, they would want to realise those standards, but | :33:57. | :34:00. | |
you can only do it if you pay for it. The problem is at the moment is | :34:01. | :34:04. | |
we are in the longest and deepest financial squeeze in NHS history. As | :34:05. | :34:09. | |
we have said, funding is only going up by 1% per year but every year | :34:10. | :34:13. | |
just to stand still cost and demand go up by more than 4%. There is | :34:14. | :34:19. | |
clearly a demand for more money. I think people watching this programme | :34:20. | :34:23. | |
will think probably the NHS is going to have to get more money to meet | :34:24. | :34:26. | |
the goals you have been given. I think they would also like to be | :34:27. | :34:31. | |
sure that your Mac running the NHS as efficiently as it could be. We | :34:32. | :34:36. | |
read this morning that trusts have got ?100 million of empty properties | :34:37. | :34:40. | |
that cost 10 million to maintain, 36 office blocks are not being used, | :34:41. | :34:45. | |
you have surplus land equivalent to 1800 football pitches. Yes, there | :34:46. | :34:49. | |
are a number of things that we know in the NHS we need to do better but | :34:50. | :34:55. | |
let me remind you, Andrew, in the last Parliament we realised ?18 | :34:56. | :34:59. | |
billion worth of cost improvement gains. We are going to realise | :35:00. | :35:04. | |
another 3 billion this year, 0.25 billion more than last year so these | :35:05. | :35:09. | |
things are being targeted. But having that surplus land, it is | :35:10. | :35:12. | |
almost certainly in areas where there is a demand for housing. | :35:13. | :35:18. | |
Absolutely. So why not release it for housing? You get the money, the | :35:19. | :35:22. | |
people get their houses and its contribution and a signal that you | :35:23. | :35:25. | |
are running NHS assets as efficiently as you can? Tell me if | :35:26. | :35:30. | |
I'm going to too much detail for you. One of the reasons as to why | :35:31. | :35:35. | |
our trusts are reluctant to realise those land sales is because there is | :35:36. | :35:38. | |
an assumption that the money would go back to the Treasury and wouldn't | :35:39. | :35:43. | |
benefit NHS trusts. You could make a deal, couldn't you? That's part of | :35:44. | :35:47. | |
the conversation going on at the moment. The issue is that we would | :35:48. | :35:51. | |
want to ensure that if we do release land, quite rightly the benefit, | :35:52. | :35:54. | |
particularly in foundation trusts which are, as you will remember, | :35:55. | :36:06. | |
deliberately autonomous organisations, that they should keep | :36:07. | :36:08. | |
the benefit of those land sales. Have you raised that with the | :36:09. | :36:09. | |
government? Yes we have. What did they say? They | :36:10. | :36:20. | |
are in discussions of it. We heard somebody who moved from one job and | :36:21. | :36:24. | |
then to another job and given a big salary and then almost ?200,000 as a | :36:25. | :36:28. | |
payoff. There is a national mood for the NHS to get more money. But | :36:29. | :36:32. | |
before you give anybody any more money you want to be sure that the | :36:33. | :36:36. | |
money you have got already is being properly spent, which for us, is the | :36:37. | :36:40. | |
patient at the end of the day. And yet there seem to be these enormous | :36:41. | :36:44. | |
salaries and payoffs. I've worked in a FTSE 100 on the board of Her | :36:45. | :36:52. | |
Majesty's Revenue and Customs and I have worked in large organisations. | :36:53. | :36:54. | |
I can look you completely straight in the eye and tell you that the | :36:55. | :36:58. | |
jobs that our hospital, community, mental health and ambulance chief | :36:59. | :37:01. | |
Executives do are amongst the most complicated leadership roles I have | :37:02. | :37:05. | |
ever seen. It doesn't seem to me to be unreasonable that in order to get | :37:06. | :37:08. | |
the right quality of people we should pay an appropriate salary. | :37:09. | :37:12. | |
The reality is the salaries are paid are not excessive when talking about | :37:13. | :37:17. | |
managing budgets of over ?1 billion a year and talking about managing | :37:18. | :37:20. | |
tens of thousands of staff. There was a doctor working as a locum that | :37:21. | :37:28. | |
earned an extra ?375,000. One of the problems in the NHS is a mismatch | :37:29. | :37:31. | |
between the number of staff we need and the number of staff coming | :37:32. | :37:34. | |
through the pipeline. What is having to happen is if you want to keep a | :37:35. | :37:40. | |
service going you have to use Mackem and agency staff. Even at that cost? | :37:41. | :37:43. | |
You would not want to pay those amounts. But you are. The chief | :37:44. | :37:49. | |
Executives's choice in those areas is giving the service open or | :37:50. | :37:53. | |
employing a locum. I'm sure you could find a locum prepared to work | :37:54. | :37:58. | |
for less than that. What indication, what hopes do you have of getting | :37:59. | :38:04. | |
the extra ?3 billion? The government has been very clear, for the moment | :38:05. | :38:08. | |
it wants to stick to the existing funding settlement it has agreed. So | :38:09. | :38:13. | |
there was nothing in the budget. Can I finish by making one important | :38:14. | :38:18. | |
point. Please, finish. This is the first time the NHS has said before | :38:19. | :38:22. | |
the year has even started that we can't deliver on those standards. We | :38:23. | :38:27. | |
believe, as do most people who work in the NHS, that the NHS is on a | :38:28. | :38:32. | |
gradual slow decline. This is a very important inflection point to Mark, | :38:33. | :38:35. | |
this is the first time before the financial year starts that we say we | :38:36. | :38:38. | |
cannot meet the targets we are being asked to deliver and are in the NHS | :38:39. | :38:43. | |
Constitution. We have run out of time. Chris Hopson, thank you for | :38:44. | :38:45. | |
being with me. It's just gone 11:35am, | :38:46. | :38:46. | |
you're watching the Sunday Politics. We say goodbye to viewers | :38:47. | :38:48. | |
in Scotland who leave us now Hello and welcome to the Sunday | :38:49. | :39:00. | |
politics here in the lovely west of As advice services for new | :39:01. | :39:03. | |
disability payments are cut, we ask whether people can still get | :39:04. | :39:14. | |
the help they need. With me to discuss it are two | :39:15. | :39:16. | |
politicians full of the joys of spring, they are Taunton's | :39:17. | :39:27. | |
Conservative MP Rebecca Pow and But first the starting gun on Brexit | :39:28. | :39:29. | |
is due to be fired at the end of this month and it's hard to | :39:30. | :39:36. | |
think of a group with more at stake Many voted out because they don't | :39:37. | :39:40. | |
like the red tape from Brussels, yet they also rely | :39:41. | :39:44. | |
heavily on EU subsidies. Can they survive | :39:45. | :39:46. | |
without all that money? A place where the bottom | :39:47. | :39:51. | |
line does the talking. Deals are struck in | :39:52. | :40:01. | |
the blink of an eye It is a lightning speed that Brexit | :40:02. | :40:06. | |
negotiators could never match. It means our future | :40:07. | :40:13. | |
in Europe is still farmers some sheep farmers | :40:14. | :40:15. | |
get about half their subsidies from the EU, | :40:16. | :40:19. | |
so Brexit really matters here. They have been told | :40:20. | :40:21. | |
the current system stays in place until 2020 | :40:22. | :40:23. | |
and after that, well? Without the subsidies, | :40:24. | :40:29. | |
there wouldn't be any farming. You couldn't sustain | :40:30. | :40:34. | |
your business on We could do with more | :40:35. | :40:35. | |
money, couldn't we? Do you think you'll | :40:36. | :40:38. | |
get it outside of I don't think anybody | :40:39. | :40:40. | |
knows, do they? Not everybody was keen on generous | :40:41. | :40:51. | |
subsidies are continuing. They pointed to New Zealand where | :40:52. | :40:53. | |
all subsidies were removed 30 years We are going to see it | :40:54. | :40:56. | |
fade away I think over the next two years, | :40:57. | :41:00. | |
but it will be probably more | :41:01. | :41:01. | |
environmentally led. There will be more | :41:02. | :41:03. | |
environmental-based subsidy But this Government has got | :41:04. | :41:14. | |
a lot of other money to spend it on, it is not just | :41:15. | :41:18. | |
agriculture, the NHS and all these other areas of income | :41:19. | :41:21. | |
as they are going to start picking away at those farming | :41:22. | :41:23. | |
subsidies, I'm afraid. Will this Government | :41:24. | :41:25. | |
continue to back This week at PMQs, | :41:26. | :41:27. | |
to reserve may offer what assurances she could over | :41:28. | :41:32. | |
the future of agriculture. We do have a duty to | :41:33. | :41:35. | |
the food and farming industry when we leave | :41:36. | :41:45. | |
the European union, We've already provided guarantees | :41:46. | :41:47. | |
the support for farmers up to 2020 and I can | :41:48. | :41:50. | |
assure her that we will continue But concerns still linger both | :41:51. | :41:53. | |
in farming and in the food You'll find the world's oldest | :41:54. | :41:56. | |
cheddar cheese manufacturer just outside of Shepton | :41:57. | :41:59. | |
Mallett in Somerset. They've been separating the curds | :42:00. | :42:05. | |
from the whey here for They are worried that | :42:06. | :42:08. | |
Brexit might cost them their protected status that they now | :42:09. | :42:10. | |
proudly display on their products. These are our best-selling | :42:11. | :42:23. | |
products over in the US, These are our best-selling products | :42:24. | :42:26. | |
over in the US, for example. Each cheese has been certified | :42:27. | :42:29. | |
official West Country Farmhouse Cheddar | :42:30. | :42:31. | |
under an EU scheme. It is called products of designated | :42:32. | :42:32. | |
origin, PDO for short, To qualify, your Cheddar must hail | :42:33. | :42:35. | |
from the west, be mature for at least nine months and use at least | :42:36. | :42:40. | |
some elements of traditional practices like this, a process known | :42:41. | :42:43. | |
as Cheddaring the cheese. They are currently trying | :42:44. | :42:45. | |
to tempt the Indian market with these West Country | :42:46. | :42:47. | |
wares, but the potential loss of their PDO status due to Brexit | :42:48. | :42:50. | |
could cost them dearly. If we were not a carrier | :42:51. | :42:52. | |
of the PDO, then a number of consumers abroad | :42:53. | :42:55. | |
probably would miss it. And certainly would | :42:56. | :42:57. | |
start asking questions as to why the product | :42:58. | :42:58. | |
was I think in particular | :42:59. | :42:59. | |
where we're challenging for new markets, and trying | :43:00. | :43:03. | |
to explain our product to new markets, it really does help give us | :43:04. | :43:07. | |
a guarantee of authenticity when we're out there talking to people | :43:08. | :43:10. | |
who don't understand it otherwise. Brexit negotiations have much | :43:11. | :43:13. | |
to consider overcoming days are protecting the proud name of West | :43:14. | :43:16. | |
Country Cheddar is just one more Let's talk about some | :43:17. | :43:19. | |
of those issues. There is evidence that lots | :43:20. | :43:25. | |
of farmers voted for Brexit, much of They might be asking | :43:26. | :43:28. | |
themselves that now, but categorically, a lot of people | :43:29. | :43:41. | |
in the agriculture industry weren't And indeed, we had to | :43:42. | :43:43. | |
fit in with 27 other countries, now we have | :43:44. | :43:47. | |
the opportunity to have a whole rethink | :43:48. | :43:48. | |
on how we manage and run our land. That I think could end up | :43:49. | :43:51. | |
being very beneficial. Of course, the devil will be | :43:52. | :43:59. | |
in the detail and how they But they understand if they do not | :44:00. | :44:02. | |
get an agreement with trading with the rest of the EU, | :44:03. | :44:07. | |
then tariffs could be what? There is a lot of feeding | :44:08. | :44:10. | |
in and negotiating going on at the moment within our own country, | :44:11. | :44:14. | |
a lot of consultation is going on behind-the-scenes with Defra | :44:15. | :44:17. | |
and indeed a Green paper will be launched shortly where people can | :44:18. | :44:20. | |
properly feed in their ideas. But we export ?11 | :44:21. | :44:23. | |
billion of agricultural produce, but we import ?28 billion | :44:24. | :44:25. | |
of agricultural produce on the EU, so we are a terribly | :44:26. | :44:29. | |
important market. We are a very important | :44:30. | :44:31. | |
market in the EU for food and drink | :44:32. | :44:38. | |
and agricultural products. So I know that certainly | :44:39. | :44:40. | |
lots of bodies like the NFU and the CLA | :44:41. | :44:42. | |
want the situation to Not to have tariffs | :44:43. | :44:45. | |
imposed on either side. Is certainly think if it is possible | :44:46. | :44:48. | |
to achieve that kind of Clare, the subsidies | :44:49. | :44:51. | |
that farmers get, Government has guaranteed | :44:52. | :44:55. | |
that they will continue to get those subsidies from the British taxpayer | :44:56. | :44:59. | |
for a Do you see that being | :45:00. | :45:01. | |
a priority as time goes by? That is part of the | :45:02. | :45:04. | |
problem that one of the concerns, one of the many concerns | :45:05. | :45:09. | |
that we have got about what does Brexit look like, what shape is it, | :45:10. | :45:12. | |
because the one thing that the common agricultural policy does | :45:13. | :45:17. | |
is provide predictability and But just last week you saw | :45:18. | :45:18. | |
that the Treasury can make an announcement one week | :45:19. | :45:26. | |
and reverse it the next. What it said in terms of promises | :45:27. | :45:29. | |
to the industry with what funding is going to be available | :45:30. | :45:32. | |
isn't guaranteed for seven years. It is barely guaranteed for a week | :45:33. | :45:43. | |
seemingly, at the moment. Would it be a good | :45:44. | :45:46. | |
idea if the subsidies actually went as they | :45:47. | :45:48. | |
have in New Zealand? One thing I wanted to say was that | :45:49. | :45:50. | |
I think they're's going to be much more of a proviso looking | :45:51. | :45:53. | |
at what public goods do you get for Is it paying for services | :45:54. | :45:57. | |
of food production? Is it paying for looking | :45:58. | :46:04. | |
after our land and Having ground for walking | :46:05. | :46:06. | |
on all wild birds? Those environmental areas | :46:07. | :46:09. | |
will be interwoven with the food production sections and that | :46:10. | :46:12. | |
could be all to the good. But we have got to also | :46:13. | :46:15. | |
factor in the rural It is not just about food production | :46:16. | :46:18. | |
or land for the public to use as amenity, we have also got | :46:19. | :46:23. | |
to bear in mind that a lot of the European funding was for | :46:24. | :46:27. | |
supporting rural communities. We have got to factor | :46:28. | :46:29. | |
in how important we think So they lose that, they have | :46:30. | :46:31. | |
got a guarantee they will get it from us for a while, | :46:32. | :46:35. | |
but not indefinitely. The Government has committed | :46:36. | :46:37. | |
to funding until 2020 and certainly there is going | :46:38. | :46:40. | |
to be no cliff edges. We have heard that from Theresa May | :46:41. | :46:42. | |
and from David Davis. There might be a couple | :46:43. | :46:44. | |
of fences though. How do we know there | :46:45. | :46:48. | |
are no cliff edges? Because we have got a whole | :46:49. | :46:50. | |
population to support and this People like me will be | :46:51. | :46:53. | |
fighting for it down And indeed we have got our | :46:54. | :46:57. | |
25 year plan for food and farming coming forward | :46:58. | :47:01. | |
and our environment plan. Subsidising a millionaire | :47:02. | :47:03. | |
farmer isn't going to be at the top of the agenda | :47:04. | :47:05. | |
for most governments? That is why my point about services | :47:06. | :47:07. | |
for public good will And those things are | :47:08. | :47:10. | |
going to be factored in. After all, the farmers are the ones | :47:11. | :47:16. | |
who manage the land. This isn't about | :47:17. | :47:19. | |
criticising the farmers. This is about what predictability | :47:20. | :47:26. | |
Government will provide. It is also another thing | :47:27. | :47:29. | |
that was touched on there, the point about the exports | :47:30. | :47:33. | |
that our industry have, but also imports that would | :47:34. | :47:35. | |
come from elsewhere. At the moment, there are limits | :47:36. | :47:44. | |
of the amounts that can be imported into compete with British | :47:45. | :47:46. | |
farmers from outside the EU. The first thing that | :47:47. | :47:49. | |
comes out in trade We have got very high standards | :47:50. | :47:51. | |
of agricultural produce within the So if there was a trade | :47:52. | :47:59. | |
deal say with the United States, we might well | :48:00. | :48:03. | |
have do except GM crops Or chlorinated chicken, | :48:04. | :48:05. | |
all of those is what the US will be wanting | :48:06. | :48:08. | |
to put on their side. The land that comes | :48:09. | :48:11. | |
in from New Zealand or any of these Secondly, it is the regulatory | :48:12. | :48:14. | |
burden that will come in Hang on, we were told that | :48:15. | :48:17. | |
if we left the EU, all the One thing I will say is that we have | :48:18. | :48:22. | |
also set up the Great British Food Unit and actually | :48:23. | :48:28. | |
we are increasing our food and drink I mean, we are our greatest and most | :48:29. | :48:31. | |
expanding the market. Just one second, if we | :48:32. | :48:43. | |
lose the EU protection for the names on our products like | :48:44. | :48:45. | |
West Country Cheddar, for example, which could happen, then it could be | :48:46. | :48:48. | |
Cheddar made in Poland. I was talking to farm | :48:49. | :48:51. | |
Minister George Eustis about this very week | :48:52. | :48:56. | |
and there is a lot of work going on to keep our protected | :48:57. | :48:59. | |
status for the products that are already protected | :49:00. | :49:01. | |
likely Cheddar cheese that we saw... Because that is all to do | :49:02. | :49:03. | |
with our quality and our standards. How do you stop a farmer | :49:04. | :49:07. | |
from Poland saying this is Because we will have | :49:08. | :49:11. | |
our own legislation but they could sell it in America, | :49:12. | :49:14. | |
couldn't they? No, we already have a good | :49:15. | :49:19. | |
reputation on the world market for That is why the Chinese | :49:20. | :49:21. | |
are coming after us in droves to get hold of everything | :49:22. | :49:27. | |
for the afternoon teas. Outside the UK and how do | :49:28. | :49:30. | |
you actually make sure that our produce can be sold into the EU | :49:31. | :49:42. | |
if we are outside of the... If Brexit is a hard | :49:43. | :49:45. | |
Brexit, which is a real or wrong, those | :49:46. | :49:48. | |
who voted for Brexit? Because my dad always used to say, | :49:49. | :49:52. | |
you fall out of that tree, don't come running to me | :49:53. | :49:55. | |
with a broken leg. They voted for out, | :49:56. | :49:57. | |
don't come and complain We have got to make | :49:58. | :50:00. | |
it work now, yes. Down at the market, you are saying, | :50:01. | :50:04. | |
are you sure you were right that We will try and look | :50:05. | :50:07. | |
after them, won't we? The Government's new disability | :50:08. | :50:13. | |
benefit is rarely out of the news. That is because the test | :50:14. | :50:16. | |
to get a personal independence payment, | :50:17. | :50:18. | |
PIP, it's called, is much more difficult | :50:19. | :50:19. | |
than it used to be and the help to OK, love, well I'll see | :50:20. | :50:23. | |
you when you get back. Sarah has fibromyalgia | :50:24. | :50:37. | |
and a neurological And for first time | :50:38. | :50:39. | |
in 18 months, she can I can get out on the bus, | :50:40. | :50:43. | |
I can take the kids out to the park. What a contrast from | :50:44. | :50:55. | |
last year when I first Her disability benefit PIP had just | :50:56. | :51:00. | |
been cut and she was fighting to get it | :51:01. | :51:06. | |
back at a tribunal. It was very scary and it | :51:07. | :51:17. | |
made me hit rock bottom. It was a massive weight | :51:18. | :51:20. | |
and thinking that you're not going to win or you're | :51:21. | :51:22. | |
not going to get the help that you The extra money brought | :51:23. | :51:25. | |
the chair and peace of mind. I did cry when they told | :51:26. | :51:33. | |
me and I did think it The impact that it | :51:34. | :51:36. | |
has had on me and the children, because they see me | :51:37. | :51:40. | |
getting the help, they are not so worried now and they see me | :51:41. | :51:43. | |
smiling a lot more. Figures seen by the BBC show that | :51:44. | :51:45. | |
that tough journey is The vast majority of people | :51:46. | :51:48. | |
in the Bristol area one there And you've got more | :51:49. | :51:51. | |
chance of winning Trying to claim it | :51:52. | :51:56. | |
on your own by yourself is DWP are asking for a lot more | :51:57. | :52:03. | |
evidence to be able to If you are claiming that | :52:04. | :52:07. | |
by yourself, quite often you don't understand what that evidence | :52:08. | :52:12. | |
could look like or how to obtain it. But is this help | :52:13. | :52:14. | |
and support now under We have been told | :52:15. | :52:22. | |
there is a back log of PIP cases waiting | :52:23. | :52:35. | |
to be heard in Bristol. And huge demand for help and support | :52:36. | :52:38. | |
from people like Sarah. But at the same time, | :52:39. | :52:42. | |
funding for the DFI's agencies that provide that support | :52:43. | :52:44. | |
is under threat. Because councils have | :52:45. | :52:46. | |
to balance their books. So advice services are being | :52:47. | :52:50. | |
squeezed at the same time as council drop-in centres like this | :52:51. | :52:54. | |
one are being closed. The most honourable people | :52:55. | :52:58. | |
are going to suffer because There will be people in this | :52:59. | :53:06. | |
city that will not be supported adequately to claim PIP | :53:07. | :53:09. | |
and help them live more The root cause is the cup | :53:10. | :53:12. | |
from central Government. We are working as best | :53:13. | :53:18. | |
we can to minimise that impact, but we have been honest | :53:19. | :53:20. | |
from the beginning, we know that We know it is going to | :53:21. | :53:23. | |
impact vulnerable people. We are doing the best | :53:24. | :53:37. | |
that we can to avoid that. But are they bearing | :53:38. | :53:40. | |
the vast brunt, if Crewe no, I don't think | :53:41. | :53:42. | |
they are bearing the brunt. Inevitably, the people | :53:43. | :53:45. | |
who received council services are the ones | :53:46. | :53:47. | |
who The Government say that very few PIP | :53:48. | :53:48. | |
dissidents have been overturned People who do lose | :53:49. | :53:56. | |
out can get a one off They insist PIP is a better benefit | :53:57. | :54:00. | |
than what went before. But there is a second | :54:01. | :54:03. | |
review of PIP underway. Sarah and others just want it | :54:04. | :54:05. | |
to be fairer and easier. Joining us to discuss | :54:06. | :54:08. | |
that is the disability Three out of four | :54:09. | :54:10. | |
appeals for these new payments are in fact successful, | :54:11. | :54:14. | |
why is the number so high? Because the right decisions | :54:15. | :54:17. | |
are not being made Well, if you look at the evidence | :54:18. | :54:19. | |
that was put to the first review of PIP, it is because there | :54:20. | :54:28. | |
is not enough time put into checking supporting evidence | :54:29. | :54:33. | |
for people's claims, there has been quite | :54:34. | :54:41. | |
a few cases where it was | :54:42. | :54:45. | |
demonstrated that things have been noted down | :54:46. | :54:46. | |
that the situations where for example a case | :54:47. | :54:48. | |
a couple of weeks ago, where the SS said, well, if you get migraines, | :54:49. | :55:02. | |
which of your impairment is it down And they said, well, I have several | :55:03. | :55:05. | |
impairments and one effect No, I'm sorry, you've got to tell me | :55:06. | :55:08. | |
which impairment it is that it is So when you have got that level | :55:09. | :55:13. | |
of ignorance, to be honest, You think it is right | :55:14. | :55:19. | |
that the disabled people should be PIP isn't about work, | :55:20. | :55:25. | |
by the way, but the estimates from researchers is | :55:26. | :55:31. | |
that the average additional cost for a disabled person is 25%, | :55:32. | :55:35. | |
so for your neighbour If you're getting social care | :55:36. | :55:46. | |
support, probably like that woman that if she were able to apply, | :55:47. | :55:49. | |
that goes up to 50%. Very briefly, how stressful | :55:50. | :55:52. | |
is it if you've been rejected to go through | :55:53. | :55:54. | |
the appeals process? A lot of people don't get that | :55:55. | :55:56. | |
far because they can't I had a woman come to me about four | :55:57. | :56:00. | |
weeks ago and she had been turned down and she was | :56:01. | :56:04. | |
absolutely beside herself. One of the problems | :56:05. | :56:08. | |
as well that doesn't help with assessments is that people | :56:09. | :56:13. | |
that people don't tend to overplay the impact of the payments | :56:14. | :56:23. | |
on their life, they underplay them. Let's bring the other | :56:24. | :56:26. | |
politicians in now. Clare, what would Labour's | :56:27. | :56:27. | |
answer to this be? This is clearly an | :56:28. | :56:29. | |
issue that has to be As was said in the clip, | :56:30. | :56:32. | |
we have got this cascade of cuts that are coming down in terms | :56:33. | :56:46. | |
of support for the people That is why we are seeing | :56:47. | :56:49. | |
the results that we What has happened now is the rate | :56:50. | :56:53. | |
of challenge that is I understand all that, | :56:54. | :56:57. | |
but I was just asking what You need to look at | :56:58. | :57:00. | |
a solution which actually ensures that people get | :57:01. | :57:05. | |
We are an incredibly wealthy country still. | :57:06. | :57:09. | |
This is about political choices about where you spend your | :57:10. | :57:12. | |
It has to be a priority that we look after the people in our | :57:13. | :57:19. | |
So what would fall off the other end? | :57:20. | :57:22. | |
It is impossible for me to say that a | :57:23. | :57:28. | |
We're not in Government, we don't have the books that are open. | :57:29. | :57:33. | |
The Tories, let's bring in Rebecca here. | :57:34. | :57:35. | |
The Tories are attending to cut ?3.7 billion from the disability | :57:36. | :57:38. | |
What I would say is actually 50 billion has been spent | :57:39. | :57:43. | |
on this entire sector and that is 6% of all Government spending. | :57:44. | :57:49. | |
The idea of PIP wasn't to give people a hard | :57:50. | :57:51. | |
time, it was actually to try and make sure | :57:52. | :57:53. | |
that the money goes to the | :57:54. | :57:55. | |
people that most need it in the right way. | :57:56. | :57:59. | |
I do totally understand that there have been some teething | :58:00. | :58:01. | |
problems and we get plenty through our door and we help them. | :58:02. | :58:04. | |
One of the examples you gave was something | :58:05. | :58:07. | |
One chap, he had a mental health issue and he | :58:08. | :58:11. | |
found it so stressful that we enabled him, | :58:12. | :58:13. | |
we wrote in writing for | :58:14. | :58:16. | |
him to go through the system and he had been able to get the money. | :58:17. | :58:21. | |
Rebecca, the system is putting people through hoops, isn't it? | :58:22. | :58:23. | |
If you are not feeling well, or if you | :58:24. | :58:25. | |
are in pain and you have to fight a Government... | :58:26. | :58:32. | |
You actually did a very good documentary on the BBC | :58:33. | :58:35. | |
last night about some of the people claiming benefits they shouldn't | :58:36. | :58:37. | |
We need to make sure the people that really need the money are | :58:38. | :58:43. | |
Actually, a quarter of all people now on PIPs are getting | :58:44. | :58:46. | |
Rebecca, let me just say to you one second. | :58:47. | :58:55. | |
You would have thought if you are going for an | :58:56. | :59:00. | |
assessment, and you are disabled, you will probably try and give the | :59:01. | :59:03. | |
person sitting in front of you in the wheelchair the benefit of the | :59:04. | :59:06. | |
doubt, rather than the other way around. | :59:07. | :59:07. | |
Yes, it is all about how human beings have handled the | :59:08. | :59:10. | |
Is reducing ?3.7 million out of the budget. | :59:11. | :59:15. | |
The cases that we have helped in her office than we | :59:16. | :59:20. | |
do it every day, we have had very good results. | :59:21. | :59:23. | |
The assessment criteria are based on the | :59:24. | :59:24. | |
And although PIP has only been going a little while, the | :59:25. | :59:36. | |
same principle underlines the work capability assessments which we have | :59:37. | :59:38. | |
had for much longer and it has been proven that they don't work either. | :59:39. | :59:47. | |
What I would also say just quickly is a funded charity, if 65% or | :59:48. | :59:50. | |
74 if it is Bristol, of our outputs were wrong, | :59:51. | :59:56. | |
we're not actually up to | :59:57. | :59:58. | |
So why are we spending 500 million and | :59:59. | :00:03. | |
so on on companies and paying civil servants? | :00:04. | :00:05. | |
Remember, everything has to be reconsidered. | :00:06. | :00:08. | |
And so sorry, our time is just going so fast. | :00:09. | :00:13. | |
In a word, would you support not cutting | :00:14. | :00:16. | |
the advisers, people who help disabled people go before the | :00:17. | :00:19. | |
I would support having the right type of advisers with the | :00:20. | :00:23. | |
human touch being able to get the right people what they need. | :00:24. | :00:28. | |
Just time to have a look now at what else is going on in | :00:29. | :00:33. | |
It was revealed this week that five West Country MPs are being | :00:34. | :00:42. | |
investigated over their election expenses. | :00:43. | :00:46. | |
They were questioned by police over visits from the Tory | :00:47. | :00:51. | |
The party's been fined, the MPs deny any | :00:52. | :00:57. | |
Bristol millionaire Aron Banks continued his war of words | :00:58. | :01:02. | |
against Ukip, despite being a major donor, he claimed he'd been | :01:03. | :01:04. | |
suspended from the party and he tweeted this logo which seems | :01:05. | :01:07. | |
There is an independent candidate in the race | :01:08. | :01:13. | |
to become west of England Metro Mayor. | :01:14. | :01:15. | |
Businessman John Savage has announced he's standing. | :01:16. | :01:19. | |
It is an obscenity that people can't get | :01:20. | :01:31. | |
provided with the basic needs of life. | :01:32. | :01:33. | |
And the mayor of Bristol Marvin Rees, | :01:34. | :01:35. | |
went back to his former school for BBC School report. | :01:36. | :01:37. | |
He answered questions on everything from | :01:38. | :01:39. | |
children's mental health to his ambitions to bring powerboat racing | :01:40. | :01:41. | |
My thanks to all my guests for coming in. | :01:42. | :01:49. | |
I will see you all the same time, same place next week. | :01:50. | :01:52. | |
pricing of these buildings. Thank you both. Say goodbye. Goodbye. Back | :01:53. | :01:57. | |
to you. So, can George Osborne stay | :01:58. | :02:02. | |
on as a member of Parliament Will Conservative backbenchers force | :02:03. | :02:05. | |
a Government re-think And is Theresa May about to cap gas | :02:06. | :02:09. | |
and electricity prices? Whose idea was that first of all? | :02:10. | :02:22. | |
They are all questions for the Week Ahead to. | :02:23. | :02:28. | |
Let's start with the story that is too much fun to miss, on Friday it | :02:29. | :02:33. | |
was announced the former Chancellor would be the new editor of London's | :02:34. | :02:36. | |
Evening Standard newspaper, a position he will take up in mid-May | :02:37. | :02:44. | |
on a salary of ?200,000 for four days a week. | :02:45. | :02:48. | |
But Mr Osborne has said he will not be stepping down as MP | :02:49. | :02:51. | |
for Tatton in Cheshire, a job he's held since 2001, | :02:52. | :02:54. | |
Alongside these duties, he's also chairman of | :02:55. | :02:57. | |
While being committed to one day a week at Black Rock, | :02:58. | :03:03. | |
an American asset management firm - a part-time role that earns him | :03:04. | :03:05. | |
Then he's polishing his academic credentials, as a fellow | :03:06. | :03:11. | |
at the McCain Institute, an American thinktank, | :03:12. | :03:13. | |
And finally as a member of the Washington Speaker's Bureau, | :03:14. | :03:20. | |
he also earns his keep as an after-dinner speaker, banking | :03:21. | :03:26. | |
around ?750,000 since last summer. | :03:27. | :03:31. | |
So there you go. Nice little earners if you can get them. The problem, | :03:32. | :03:41. | |
though, is he has put second jobs on the agenda and lots of his fellow | :03:42. | :03:44. | |
MPs are not happy because they have got second jobs but not making that | :03:45. | :03:49. | |
kind of money. No, and a lot of MPs on both sides actually are unhappy | :03:50. | :03:54. | |
about it exactly for those reasons. I find it a very interesting | :03:55. | :03:59. | |
appointment. We have got these people on the centre and centre | :04:00. | :04:03. | |
right of politics who have been used to power since 1997, they have been | :04:04. | :04:07. | |
on the airwaves today, Tony Blair, Nick Clegg, George Osborne, and they | :04:08. | :04:12. | |
are all seeking other platforms now because power has moved elsewhere. | :04:13. | :04:17. | |
So Tony Blair is setting up this new foundation, Nick Clegg refused to | :04:18. | :04:19. | |
condemn George Osborne, Tony Blair praised the appointment. They are | :04:20. | :04:26. | |
all searching for new platforms. They might have overestimated the | :04:27. | :04:30. | |
degree to which this will be a huge influential platform. The standard | :04:31. | :04:36. | |
was very pro-Tory at the 2015 election but London voted Labour, it | :04:37. | :04:40. | |
was pro-Zac Goldsmith but they elected Sadiq Khan. It might be | :04:41. | :04:44. | |
overestimating the degree to which this is a hugely influential paper. | :04:45. | :04:49. | |
But I can see why it attracts him as a platform when all these platforms | :04:50. | :04:54. | |
have disappeared, eg power and government. All of these people who | :04:55. | :05:00. | |
used to be in power are quietly getting together again, Mr Blair on | :05:01. | :05:04. | |
television this morning, George Osborne not only filling his bank | :05:05. | :05:08. | |
account but now in charge of London's most important newspaper, | :05:09. | :05:13. | |
Nick Clegg out today not saying Brexit was a done deal, waiting to | :05:14. | :05:18. | |
see what happens, even John Major was wheeled out again today in the | :05:19. | :05:23. | |
Mail on Sunday. They are all playing for position. I half expect David | :05:24. | :05:26. | |
Cameron to turn up as features editor on The Evening Standard. | :05:27. | :05:34. | |
Brexit and breakfast! With Mr Clegg, did he not? I do not think this is | :05:35. | :05:38. | |
sustainable for George Osborne, I worked at The Evening Standard and I | :05:39. | :05:42. | |
was there for three years, I know what the hours are like for a humble | :05:43. | :05:46. | |
journalist, never mind the editor. If he thinks he can get at 4am | :05:47. | :05:50. | |
everyday to be in the offices at 5am to oversee the splash, manage | :05:51. | :05:54. | |
everything in the way and edited should he is in cloud cuckoo land. | :05:55. | :05:59. | |
What this says to people is there is a kind of feel of soft corruption | :06:00. | :06:03. | |
about public life here, where you see what you can get away with. He | :06:04. | :06:07. | |
thinks he can brazen this out and maybe he can but what kind of | :06:08. | :06:10. | |
message does that send to people about how seriously people take the | :06:11. | :06:15. | |
role of being an MP? He must have known. He applied for the job. The | :06:16. | :06:21. | |
Russian owner didn't approach him, he approached Lebedev, the | :06:22. | :06:26. | |
proprietor, for it. He must have calculated there would be some | :06:27. | :06:29. | |
kickback. I wonder if he realised there would be quite the kickback | :06:30. | :06:33. | |
there has been. I think that's probably right. This hasn't finished | :06:34. | :06:37. | |
yet, by the way, this will go on and on. How on earth does George Osborne | :06:38. | :06:42. | |
cover the budget in the autumn? Big budget, lots of physical changes and | :06:43. | :06:47. | |
tax rises to deal with the messages out of this week. You can see | :06:48. | :06:51. | |
already, Theresa May budget crashes. It could be worse. She's useless! | :06:52. | :06:59. | |
Or, worse than that, me, brilliant budget, terrible newspaper, I've | :07:00. | :07:04. | |
never buying it again. He has hoisted his own petard. He has not | :07:05. | :07:07. | |
bought it properly through. It's a something interesting about his own | :07:08. | :07:13. | |
future calculations, if he wants to stay on as an MP in 2020 and be | :07:14. | :07:17. | |
Prime Minister as he has or was wanted to be he has got to find a | :07:18. | :07:21. | |
new seat. How do you go into an association and say I should be an | :07:22. | :07:25. | |
MP, I can do it for at least four hours Purdy after editing The | :07:26. | :07:29. | |
Evening Standard, making a big speech and telling Black Rock how to | :07:30. | :07:36. | |
make a big profit. The feature pages have to be approved for the next day | :07:37. | :07:40. | |
and feature pages are aware the editor gets to make their mark. The | :07:41. | :07:44. | |
news is the news. The feature is what concerns you, what he is in | :07:45. | :07:49. | |
your bonnet. That defines the newspaper, doesn't it? It is not | :07:50. | :07:55. | |
over yet. Too much 101 on newspapers. And Haatheq at. | :07:56. | :08:02. | |
School funding, the consultation period ends, it has been a tricky | :08:03. | :08:09. | |
one for the government, some areas losing. I guess we are seeing this | :08:10. | :08:14. | |
through the prism of the National Insurance contributions now, it is a | :08:15. | :08:20. | |
small majority, if Tory MPs are unhappy she may not get her way. | :08:21. | :08:25. | |
Talking to backbench MPs who are unhappy the feeling is it is not | :08:26. | :08:29. | |
going to go ahead in the proposed form that the consultation has been | :08:30. | :08:34. | |
on. No 10 will definitely have to move on this. It is unclear whether | :08:35. | :08:39. | |
they will scrap it completely, or will they bring in something | :08:40. | :08:42. | |
possibly like a base level, floor level pupil funding below which you | :08:43. | :08:47. | |
can't go? You would then still need to find some extra money. So there | :08:48. | :08:51. | |
are no easy solutions on this but what is clear it is not going to go | :08:52. | :08:55. | |
ahead in its current form. Parents have been getting letters across the | :08:56. | :08:59. | |
country in England about what this will mean for teachers and so on in | :09:00. | :09:04. | |
certain schools. It's not just a matter of the education Department, | :09:05. | :09:09. | |
the schools, or the teachers and Tory backbenchers. Parents are being | :09:10. | :09:13. | |
mobilised on this. The point of the new funding formula is to allocate | :09:14. | :09:17. | |
more money to the more disadvantaged. That means schools in | :09:18. | :09:21. | |
the more prosperous suburbs are going to lose money. Budget cuts on | :09:22. | :09:25. | |
schools which are already struggling. It comes down again to | :09:26. | :09:29. | |
be huge problem, the ever smaller fiscal pool, ever greater demands, | :09:30. | :09:34. | |
NHS, social care, education as well, adding to Theresa May and Phillip | :09:35. | :09:38. | |
Hammond's enormous problems. Here is an interesting issue, Steve. There | :09:39. | :09:42. | |
was a labour Leader of the Opposition that once suggested | :09:43. | :09:48. | |
perhaps given these huge energy companies which seemed to be good at | :09:49. | :09:52. | |
passing on energy rises but not so good at cutting energy prices when | :09:53. | :09:55. | |
it falls, that perhaps we should put a cap on them until at least we | :09:56. | :09:59. | |
study how the market goes. This was obviously ludicrous Marxism and | :10:00. | :10:05. | |
quite rightly knocked down by the Conservatives, except that Mrs May | :10:06. | :10:10. | |
is now talking about putting a cap on energy prices. Yes, I think if it | :10:11. | :10:13. | |
wasn't for Brexit we would focus much more on Theresa May's Ed | :10:14. | :10:18. | |
Miliband streak. Whether this translates into policies, let us | :10:19. | :10:22. | |
see. That bit we don't know. That bit we don't know but in terms of | :10:23. | :10:26. | |
argument her speech to the Conservative conference on Friday | :10:27. | :10:30. | |
was about the third or fourth time where she said as part of the | :10:31. | :10:35. | |
speech, let's focus on the good that government can do, including in | :10:36. | :10:38. | |
intervening in markets, exactly in the way that he used to argue. As | :10:39. | :10:44. | |
you say, we await the policy consequences of that. She seems more | :10:45. | :10:47. | |
cautious in terms of policy in fermentation. But in terms of the | :10:48. | :10:52. | |
industrial strategy, in terms of implying intervention in certain | :10:53. | :10:55. | |
markets, there is a kind of Milibandesque streak. And there | :10:56. | :11:00. | |
comes a time when she has to walk the walk as well as talk the talk. | :11:01. | :11:06. | |
They talk a lot about the just about managing, just about managing face | :11:07. | :11:10. | |
rising food bills because of the lower pound and face rising fuel | :11:11. | :11:14. | |
bills because of the rise in oil and in other commodities. One of the two | :11:15. | :11:21. | |
things you could do to help the just about managing is to cut their food | :11:22. | :11:24. | |
bills and the second would be to cut their fuel bills. At some stage she | :11:25. | :11:28. | |
has to do something for them. We don't know what is going to happen | :11:29. | :11:31. | |
to food bills under Brexit, that could become a really serious issue. | :11:32. | :11:35. | |
They could abolish tariffs. There has been a lot of talking the talk | :11:36. | :11:39. | |
and big announcements put out and not following through so I agree | :11:40. | :11:43. | |
with you on that but lots of Tory MPs will have a big problem on | :11:44. | :11:56. | |
this and the principle of continually talking about | :11:57. | :11:59. | |
interfering in markets, whether it's on executive pay, whether it is on | :12:00. | :12:02. | |
energy, at a time when Britain needs to send out this message to the | :12:03. | :12:05. | |
world in their view, in the view of Brexit supporting MPs, that we are | :12:06. | :12:07. | |
open for business and the government is not about poking around and doing | :12:08. | :12:10. | |
this kind of thing. Of course, you could argue there is not a problem | :12:11. | :12:13. | |
in the market for energy, it is a malfunctioning market that doesn't | :12:14. | :12:15. | |
operate like a free market should, so that provides even Adam Smith, | :12:16. | :12:18. | |
the inventor of market economics would have said on that basis you | :12:19. | :12:22. | |
should intervene. I was in Cardiff to listen to Theresa May's latest | :12:23. | :12:26. | |
explanation for doing this. By the way, we've been waiting nine months, | :12:27. | :12:31. | |
this was one of her big ideas. You are right, let's see a bit of the | :12:32. | :12:35. | |
meat, please. My newspaper has been calling for some pretty hefty | :12:36. | :12:38. | |
government action on this for quite some time. For the just about | :12:39. | :12:44. | |
managings? Yes and specifically to sort out an energy market dominated | :12:45. | :12:48. | |
by the big six, which is manifestly ripping people off left, right and | :12:49. | :12:51. | |
centre. Theresa May's argument in Cardiff on Friday morning which, by | :12:52. | :12:56. | |
the way, went down like a proverbial windbreak at the proverbial funeral | :12:57. | :13:01. | |
because Tories... You know what I mean Andrew, the big hand coming | :13:02. | :13:04. | |
into from the state telling businesses what to do. They went | :13:05. | :13:08. | |
very quiet indeed. They were having saving the union and Nato but there | :13:09. | :13:12. | |
was no clapping for that. The point being, this is what she needs to do | :13:13. | :13:16. | |
to prove her assault, to prove those first words on the steps of Downing | :13:17. | :13:22. | |
Street. We await to see the actions taken. | :13:23. | :13:24. | |
On that unusual agreement we will leave it there. The Daily Politics | :13:25. | :13:31. | |
will be back on BBC Two tomorrow at noon and everyday during the week. | :13:32. | :13:34. | |
And I'll be here on BBC One next Sunday at 11am. | :13:35. | :13:37. | |
Remember, if it's Sunday, it's the Sunday Politics. | :13:38. | :13:39. |