Browse content similar to 21/05/2017. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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It's Sunday Morning, and this is the Sunday Politics. | :00:36. | :00:40. | |
Labour attacks Conservative plans for social care and to means-test | :00:41. | :00:42. | |
So can Jeremy Corbyn eat into the Tory lead | :00:43. | :00:45. | |
Theresa May says her party's manifesto is all about fairness. | :00:46. | :00:51. | |
We'll be speaking to a Conservative cabinet minister about the plans. | :00:52. | :00:55. | |
The polls have always shown healthy leads for the Conservatives. | :00:56. | :00:58. | |
But, now we've seen the manifestos, is Labour narrowing the gap? | :00:59. | :01:02. | |
In the West: Protests about school funding, | :01:03. | :01:04. | |
and at the other end of the scale: the elderly may lose out, | :01:05. | :01:07. | |
And with me - as always - the best and the brightest political | :01:08. | :01:23. | |
panel in the business: Sam Coates, Isabel Oakeshott | :01:24. | :01:25. | |
and Steve Richards - they'll be tweeting throughout | :01:26. | :01:27. | |
the programme, and you can get involved by using | :01:28. | :01:29. | |
Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn says pensioners will be up to ?330 a year | :01:30. | :01:38. | |
worse off under plans outlined in the Conservative manifesto. | :01:39. | :01:49. | |
The Work Pensions Secretary Damian Green has said his party will not | :01:50. | :01:55. | |
rethink their plans to fund social care in England. Under the plans in | :01:56. | :02:00. | |
the Conservative manifesto, nobody with assets of less than ?100,000, | :02:01. | :02:06. | |
would have to pay for care. Labour has attacked the proposal, and John | :02:07. | :02:11. | |
McDonnell, Labour's Shadow Chancellor, said this morning that | :02:12. | :02:14. | |
there needs to be more cross-party consensus. | :02:15. | :02:17. | |
That's why we supported Dilnot, but we also supported | :02:18. | :02:19. | |
Because we've got to have something sustainable over generations, | :02:20. | :02:23. | |
so that's why we've said to the Conservative Party, | :02:24. | :02:25. | |
Let's go back to that cross-party approach that actually | :02:26. | :02:28. | |
I just feel we've all been let down by what's come | :02:29. | :02:32. | |
Sam, is Labour beginning to get their argument across? What we had | :02:33. | :02:42. | |
last week was bluntly what felt like not very Lynton Crosby approved | :02:43. | :02:46. | |
Conservative manifesto. What I mean by that is that it looks like there | :02:47. | :02:50. | |
are things that will cause political difficulties for the party over this | :02:51. | :02:55. | |
campaign. I've been talking to MPs and ministers who acknowledge that | :02:56. | :02:59. | |
the social care plan is coming up on the doorstep. It has cut through | :03:00. | :03:05. | |
very quickly, and it is worrying and deterring some voters. Not just | :03:06. | :03:09. | |
pensioners, that people who are looking to inherit in the future. | :03:10. | :03:21. | |
They are all asking how much they could lose that they wouldn't have | :03:22. | :03:23. | |
lost before. A difficult question for the party to answer, given that | :03:24. | :03:26. | |
they don't want to give too much away now. Was this a mistake, or a | :03:27. | :03:31. | |
sign of the Conservatives' confidence? It has the hallmarks of | :03:32. | :03:38. | |
something that has been cobbled together in a very unnaturally short | :03:39. | :03:42. | |
time frame for putting a manifesto together. We have had mixed messages | :03:43. | :03:47. | |
from the Tory MPs who have been out on the airwaves this morning as to | :03:48. | :03:50. | |
whether they will consult on it whether it is just a starting point. | :03:51. | :03:55. | |
That said, there is still three weeks to go, and most of the Tory | :03:56. | :04:02. | |
party this morning feel this is a little light turbulence rather than | :04:03. | :04:05. | |
anything that leaves the destination of victory in doubt. It it flips the | :04:06. | :04:09. | |
normal politics. The Tories are going to make people who have a | :04:10. | :04:13. | |
reasonable amount of assets pay for their social care. What is wrong | :04:14. | :04:20. | |
with that? First, total credit for them for not pretending that all | :04:21. | :04:23. | |
this can be done by magic, which is what normally happens in an | :04:24. | :04:28. | |
election. The party will say, we will review this for the 95th time | :04:29. | :04:33. | |
in the following Parliament, so they have no mandate to do anything and | :04:34. | :04:37. | |
so do not do anything. It is courageous to do it. It is | :04:38. | :04:41. | |
electorally risky, for the reasons that you suggest, that they pass the | :04:42. | :04:47. | |
target their own natural supporter. And there is a sense that this is | :04:48. | :04:53. | |
rushed through, in the frenzy to get it done in time. I think the ending | :04:54. | :04:58. | |
of the pooling of risk and putting the entire burden on in inverted | :04:59. | :05:04. | |
commas the victim, because you cannot insure Fritz, is against the | :05:05. | :05:12. | |
spirit of a lot of the rest of the manifesto, and will give them huge | :05:13. | :05:16. | |
problems if they try to implement it in the next Parliament. Let's have a | :05:17. | :05:25. | |
look at the polls. Nearly five weeks ago, on Tuesday the 18th of April, | :05:26. | :05:29. | |
Theresa May called the election. At that point, this was the median | :05:30. | :05:34. | |
average of the recent polls. The Conservatives had an 18 point lead | :05:35. | :05:40. | |
over Labour on 25%. Ukip and the Liberal Democrats were both on 18%. | :05:41. | :05:49. | |
A draft of Labour's manifesto was leaked to the press. In the | :05:50. | :05:53. | |
intervening weeks, support for the Conservatives and Labour had | :05:54. | :05:56. | |
increased, that it had decreased for the Lib Dems and Ukip. Last Tuesday | :05:57. | :06:02. | |
came the launch of the official Labour manifesto. By that time, | :06:03. | :06:08. | |
Labour support had gone up by another 2%. The Lib Dems and Ukip | :06:09. | :06:13. | |
had slipped back slightly. Later in the week came the manifestos from | :06:14. | :06:18. | |
the Lib Dems and the Conservatives. This morning, for more polls. This | :06:19. | :06:22. | |
is how the parties currently stand on average. Labour are now on 34%, | :06:23. | :06:30. | |
up 4% since the launch of their manifesto. The Conservatives are | :06:31. | :06:34. | |
down two points since last Tuesday. Ukip and the Lib Dems are both | :06:35. | :06:41. | |
unchanged on 8% and 5%. You can find this poll tracker on the BBC | :06:42. | :06:46. | |
website, see how it was calculated, and see the results of national | :06:47. | :06:51. | |
polls over the last two years. So Isabel, is this the Tories' wobbly | :06:52. | :06:55. | |
weekend or the start of the narrowing? This is still an | :06:56. | :07:00. | |
extremely healthy lead for the Tories. At the start of this | :07:01. | :07:06. | |
campaign, most commentators expected to things to happen. First, the Lib | :07:07. | :07:12. | |
Dems would have a significant surge. That hasn't happened. Second, Labour | :07:13. | :07:17. | |
would crash and plummet. Instead they are in the health of the low | :07:18. | :07:22. | |
30s. I wonder if that tells you something about the tribal nature of | :07:23. | :07:28. | |
the Labour vote, and the continuing problems with the Tory brand. I | :07:29. | :07:33. | |
would say that a lot of Tory MPs wouldn't be too unhappy if Labour's | :07:34. | :07:38. | |
result isn't quite as bad as has been anticipated. They don't want | :07:39. | :07:45. | |
Corbyn to go anywhere. If the latest polls were to be the result on June | :07:46. | :07:51. | |
the 8th, Mr Corbyn may not be in a rush to go anywhere. I still think | :07:52. | :07:56. | |
it depends on the number of seats. If there is a landslide win, I | :07:57. | :08:01. | |
think, one way or another, he will not stay. If it is much narrower, he | :08:02. | :08:07. | |
has grounds for arguing he has done better than anticipated. The polls | :08:08. | :08:12. | |
are very interesting. People compare this with 83. In 83, the Tory lead | :08:13. | :08:17. | |
widened consistently throughout the campaign. There was the SDP - | :08:18. | :08:30. | |
Liberal Alliance doing well in the polls. Here, the Lib Dems don't seem | :08:31. | :08:33. | |
to be doing that. So the parallels with 83 don't really stack up. But | :08:34. | :08:35. | |
let's see what happens. Still early days for the a lot of people are | :08:36. | :08:39. | |
saying this is the result of the social care policy. We don't really | :08:40. | :08:43. | |
know that. How do you beat them? In the last week or so, there's been | :08:44. | :08:47. | |
the decision by some to hold their nose and vote Labour, who haven't | :08:48. | :08:52. | |
done so before. Probably the biggest thing in this election is how the | :08:53. | :08:56. | |
Right has reunited behind Theresa May. That figure for Ukip is | :08:57. | :09:03. | |
incredibly small. She has brought those Ukip voters behind her, and | :09:04. | :09:09. | |
that could be the decisive factor in many seats, rather than the Labour | :09:10. | :09:13. | |
share of the boat picking up a bit or down a bit, depending on how | :09:14. | :09:18. | |
turbulent the Tory manifesto makes it. Thank you for that. | :09:19. | :09:21. | |
We've finally got our hands on the manifestos of the two main | :09:22. | :09:24. | |
parties and, for once, voters can hardly complain that | :09:25. | :09:26. | |
So, just how big is the choice on offer to the public? | :09:27. | :09:30. | |
Since the Liberal Democrats and SNP have ruled out | :09:31. | :09:32. | |
coalitions after June 8th, Adam Fleming compares the Labour | :09:33. | :09:34. | |
Welcome to the BBC's election centre. | :09:35. | :09:37. | |
Four minutes from now, when Big Ben strikes 10.00, | :09:38. | :09:41. | |
we can legally reveal the contents of this, our exit poll. | :09:42. | :09:45. | |
18 days to go, and the BBC's election night studio | :09:46. | :09:48. | |
This is where David Dimbleby will sit, although there is no chair yet. | :09:49. | :09:57. | |
The parties' policies are now the finished product. | :09:58. | :10:01. | |
In Bradford, Jeremy Corbyn vowed a bigger state, | :10:02. | :10:03. | |
the end of austerity, no more tuition fees. | :10:04. | :10:06. | |
The Tory campaign, by contrast, is built on one word - fear. | :10:07. | :10:14. | |
Down the road in Halifax, Theresa May kept a promise to get | :10:15. | :10:22. | |
immigration down to the tens of thousands, and talked | :10:23. | :10:25. | |
of leadership and tough choices in uncertain times. | :10:26. | :10:29. | |
Strengthen my hand as I fight for Britain, and stand with me | :10:30. | :10:35. | |
And, with confidence in ourselves and a unity | :10:36. | :10:41. | |
of purpose in our country, let us go forward together. | :10:42. | :10:48. | |
Let's look at the Labour and Conservative | :10:49. | :10:51. | |
On tax, Labour would introduce a 50p rate for top earners. | :10:52. | :10:57. | |
The Conservatives ditched their triple lock, giving them | :10:58. | :11:21. | |
freedom to put up income tax and national insurance, | :11:22. | :11:23. | |
although they want to keep the overall tax burden the same. | :11:24. | :11:26. | |
Labour offered a major overhaul of the country's wiring, | :11:27. | :11:28. | |
with a pledge to renationalise infrastructure, like power, | :11:29. | :11:30. | |
The Conservatives said that would cost a fortune, | :11:31. | :11:33. | |
but provided few details for the cost of their policies. | :11:34. | :11:35. | |
Labour have simply become a shambles, and, as yesterday's | :11:36. | :11:37. | |
manifesto showed, their numbers simply do not add up. | :11:38. | :11:40. | |
What have they got planned for health and social care? | :11:41. | :11:42. | |
The Conservatives offered more cash for the NHS, | :11:43. | :11:46. | |
reaching an extra ?8 billion a year by the end of the parliament. | :11:47. | :11:49. | |
Labour promised an extra ?30 billion over the course of the same period, | :11:50. | :11:53. | |
plus free hospital parking and more pay for staff. | :11:54. | :11:59. | |
The Conservatives would increase the value of assets you could | :12:00. | :12:06. | |
protect from the cost of social care to ?100,000, but your home would be | :12:07. | :12:10. | |
added to the assessment of your wealth, | :12:11. | :12:11. | |
There was a focus on one group of voters in particular | :12:12. | :12:15. | |
Labour would keep the triple lock, which guarantees that pensions go up | :12:16. | :12:21. | |
The Tories would keep the increase in line | :12:22. | :12:27. | |
with inflation or earnings, a double lock. | :12:28. | :12:30. | |
The Conservatives would end of winter fuel payments | :12:31. | :12:33. | |
for the richest, although we don't know exactly who that would be, | :12:34. | :12:36. | |
This is a savage attack on vulnerable pensioners, | :12:37. | :12:45. | |
particularly those who are just about managing. | :12:46. | :12:49. | |
It is disgraceful, and we are calling upon the Conservative Party | :12:50. | :12:52. | |
When it comes to leaving the European Union, Labour say | :12:53. | :12:59. | |
they'd sweep away the government's negotiating strategy, | :13:00. | :13:02. | |
secure a better deal and straightaway guaranteed the rights | :13:03. | :13:05. | |
The Tories say a big majority would remove political uncertainty | :13:06. | :13:11. | |
Jeremy Vine's due here in two and a half weeks. | :13:12. | :13:23. | |
I'm joined now by David Gauke, who is Chief Secretary to the Treasury. | :13:24. | :13:29. | |
Welcome back to the programme. The Tories once promised a cap on social | :13:30. | :13:36. | |
care costs. Why have you abandoned that? We've looked at it, and there | :13:37. | :13:43. | |
are couple of proposals with the Dilnot proposal. Much of the benefit | :13:44. | :13:48. | |
would go to those inheriting larger estates. The second point was it was | :13:49. | :13:53. | |
hoped that a cap would stimulate the larger insurance products that would | :13:54. | :13:58. | |
fill the gap, but there is no sign that those products are emerging. | :13:59. | :14:04. | |
Without a cap, you will not get one. We have come forward with a new | :14:05. | :14:08. | |
proposal which we think is fairer, provide more money for social care, | :14:09. | :14:12. | |
which is very important and is one of the big issues we face as a | :14:13. | :14:17. | |
country. It is right that we face those big issues. Social care is | :14:18. | :14:23. | |
one, getting a good Brexit deal is another. This demonstrates that | :14:24. | :14:30. | |
Theresa May has an ambition to lead a government that addresses those | :14:31. | :14:33. | |
big long-term issues. Looking at social care. If you have assets, | :14:34. | :14:39. | |
including your home, of over ?100,000, you have to pay for all | :14:40. | :14:43. | |
your social care costs. Is that fair? It is right that for the | :14:44. | :14:47. | |
services that are provided to you, that that is paid out of your | :14:48. | :14:53. | |
assets, subject to two really important qualifications. First, you | :14:54. | :14:57. | |
shouldn't have your entire estate wiped out. At the moment, if you are | :14:58. | :15:04. | |
in residential care, it can be wiped out ?223,000. If you are in | :15:05. | :15:09. | |
domiciliary care, it can be out to ?23,000, plus you're domiciliary. | :15:10. | :15:16. | |
Nobody should be forced to sell their house in their lifetime if | :15:17. | :15:20. | |
they or their spouse needs long-term care. Again, we have protected that | :15:21. | :15:22. | |
in the proposals we set out. But the state will basically take a | :15:23. | :15:32. | |
chunk of your house when you die and they sell. In an essence it is a | :15:33. | :15:37. | |
stealth inheritance tax on everything above ?100,000. But we | :15:38. | :15:41. | |
have those two important protections. I am including that. It | :15:42. | :15:45. | |
is a stealth inheritance tax. We have to face up to the fact that | :15:46. | :15:49. | |
there are significant costs that we face as a country in terms of health | :15:50. | :15:54. | |
and social careful. Traditionally, politicians don't address those | :15:55. | :15:58. | |
issues, particularly during election campaigns. I think it is too Theresa | :15:59. | :16:04. | |
May's credit that we are being straightforward with the British | :16:05. | :16:07. | |
people and saying that we face this long-term challenge. Our manifesto | :16:08. | :16:10. | |
was about the big challenges that we face, one of which was | :16:11. | :16:14. | |
intergenerational fairness and one of which was delivering a strong | :16:15. | :16:18. | |
economy and making sure that we can do that. But in the end, someone is | :16:19. | :16:25. | |
going to have to pay for this. It is going to have to be a balance | :16:26. | :16:28. | |
between the general taxpayer and those receiving the services. We | :16:29. | :16:31. | |
think we have struck the right balance with this proposal. But it | :16:32. | :16:35. | |
is entirely on the individual. People watching this programme, if | :16:36. | :16:39. | |
they have a fair amount of assets, not massive, including the home, | :16:40. | :16:46. | |
they will need to pay for everything themselves until their assets are | :16:47. | :16:50. | |
reduced to ?100,000. It is not a balance, you're putting everything | :16:51. | :16:55. | |
on the original two individual. At the moment, for those in residential | :16:56. | :17:01. | |
care, they have to pay everything until 20 3000. -- everything on the | :17:02. | :17:06. | |
individual. But now they will face more. Those in individual care are | :17:07. | :17:10. | |
seeing their protection going up by four times as much, so that is | :17:11. | :17:13. | |
eliminating unfairness. Why should those in residential care be in a | :17:14. | :17:17. | |
worse position than those receiving domiciliary care? But as I say, that | :17:18. | :17:23. | |
money has to come from somewhere and we are sitting at a proper plan for | :17:24. | :17:26. | |
it. While also made the point that we are more likely to be able to | :17:27. | :17:30. | |
have a properly functioning social care market if we have a strong | :17:31. | :17:34. | |
economy, and to have a strong economy we need to deliver a good | :17:35. | :17:37. | |
deal on Brexit and I think Theresa May is capable of doing that. You | :17:38. | :17:42. | |
have said that before. But if you have a heart attack in old age, the | :17:43. | :17:47. | |
NHS will take care of you. If you have dementia, you now have to pay | :17:48. | :17:50. | |
for the care of yourself. Is that they are? It is already the case | :17:51. | :17:55. | |
that if you have long-term care costs come up as I say, if you are | :17:56. | :17:59. | |
in residential care you pay for all of it until the last ?23,000, but if | :18:00. | :18:04. | |
you are in domiciliary care, excluding your housing assets, but | :18:05. | :18:08. | |
all of your other assets get used up until you are down to ?23,000 a | :18:09. | :18:14. | |
year. And I think it is right at this point that a party that aspires | :18:15. | :18:21. | |
to run this country for the long-term, to address the long-term | :18:22. | :18:25. | |
challenges we have is a country, for us to be clear that we need to | :18:26. | :18:29. | |
deliver this. Because if it is not paid for it this way, if it goes and | :18:30. | :18:36. | |
falls on the general taxpayer, the people who feel hard pressed by the | :18:37. | :18:39. | |
amount of income tax and VAT they pay, frankly we have to say to them, | :18:40. | :18:44. | |
those taxes will go up if we do not address it. But they might go up | :18:45. | :18:48. | |
anyway. The average house price in your part of the country is just shy | :18:49. | :18:54. | |
of ?430,000, so if you told your own constituents that they might have to | :18:55. | :18:58. | |
spend ?300,000 of their assets on social care before the state steps | :18:59. | :19:03. | |
in to help...? As I said earlier, nobody will be forced to pay during | :19:04. | :19:08. | |
their lifetime. Nobody will be forced to sell their houses. We are | :19:09. | :19:14. | |
providing that protection because of the third premium. Which makes it a | :19:15. | :19:18. | |
kind of death tax, doesn't it? Which is what you use to rail against. | :19:19. | :19:24. | |
What it is people paying for the services they have paid out of their | :19:25. | :19:29. | |
assets. But with that very important protection that nobody is going to | :19:30. | :19:32. | |
be wiped out in the way that has happened up until now, down to the | :19:33. | :19:37. | |
last three years. But when Labour propose this, George Osborne called | :19:38. | :19:41. | |
it a death tax and you are now proposing a stealth death tax | :19:42. | :19:45. | |
inheritance tax. Labour's proposals were very different. It is the same | :19:46. | :19:51. | |
effect. Labour's were hitting everyone with an inheritance tax. We | :19:52. | :19:58. | |
are saying that there are -- that there is a state contribution but | :19:59. | :20:01. | |
the public receiving the services will have to pay for it out of | :20:02. | :20:07. | |
assets, which have grown substantially. And which they might | :20:08. | :20:11. | |
now lose to social care. But I would say that people in Hertfordshire pay | :20:12. | :20:15. | |
a lot in income tracks, national insurance and VAT, and this is my | :20:16. | :20:20. | |
bet is going to have to come from somewhere. Well, they are now going | :20:21. | :20:24. | |
to pay a lot of tax and pay for social care. Turning to immigration, | :20:25. | :20:29. | |
you promised to get net migration down to 100,020 ten. You failed. You | :20:30. | :20:34. | |
promised again in 2015 and you are feeling again. Why should voters | :20:35. | :20:38. | |
trust you a third time? It is very clear that only the Conservative | :20:39. | :20:43. | |
Party has an ambition to control immigration and to bring it down. An | :20:44. | :20:48. | |
ambition you have failed to deliver. There are, of course, factors that | :20:49. | :20:51. | |
come into play. For example a couple of years ago we were going through a | :20:52. | :20:55. | |
period when the UK was creating huge numbers of jobs but none of our | :20:56. | :20:59. | |
European neighbours were doing anything like it. Not surprisingly, | :21:00. | :21:02. | |
that feeds through into the immigration numbers that we see. But | :21:03. | :21:09. | |
it is right that we have that ambition because I do not believe it | :21:10. | :21:15. | |
is sustainable to have hundreds of thousands net migration, you're | :21:16. | :21:18. | |
after year after year, and only Theresa May of the Conservative | :21:19. | :21:22. | |
Party is willing to address that. It has gone from being a target to an | :21:23. | :21:26. | |
ambition, and I am pretty sure in a couple of years it will become an | :21:27. | :21:30. | |
untimed aspiration. Is net migration now higher or lower than when you | :21:31. | :21:36. | |
came to power in 2010? I think it is higher at the moment. Let's look at | :21:37. | :21:41. | |
the figures. And there they are. You are right, it is higher, so after | :21:42. | :21:46. | |
six years in power, promising to get it down to 100,000, it is higher. So | :21:47. | :21:53. | |
if that is an ambition and you have not succeeded. We have to accept | :21:54. | :21:57. | |
that there are a number of factors. It continues to be the case that the | :21:58. | :22:02. | |
UK economy is growing and creating a lot of jobs, which is undoubtedly | :22:03. | :22:06. | |
drawing people. But you made the promise on the basis that would not | :22:07. | :22:09. | |
happen? We are certainly outperforming other countries in a | :22:10. | :22:12. | |
way that we could not have predicted in 2010. That is one of the factors. | :22:13. | :22:18. | |
But if you look at a lot of the steps that we have taken over the | :22:19. | :22:20. | |
course of the last seven years, dealing with bogus students, for | :22:21. | :22:26. | |
example, tightening up a lot of the rules. You can say all that but it | :22:27. | :22:30. | |
has made no difference to the headline figure. Clearly it would | :22:31. | :22:33. | |
have gone up by much more and we not taken the steps. But as I say, we | :22:34. | :22:39. | |
cannot for ever, it seems to me, have net migration numbers in the | :22:40. | :22:44. | |
hundreds of thousands. If we get that good Brexit deal, one of the | :22:45. | :22:48. | |
things we can do is tighten up in terms of access here. You say that | :22:49. | :22:53. | |
but you have always had control of non-EU migration. You cannot blame | :22:54. | :22:57. | |
the EU for that. You control immigration from outside the EU. | :22:58. | :23:00. | |
Have you ever managed to get even that below 100,000? Well, no doubt | :23:01. | :23:07. | |
you will present the numbers now. You haven't. You have got down a bit | :23:08. | :23:13. | |
from 2010, I will give you that, but even non-EU migration is still a lot | :23:14. | :23:17. | |
more than 100000 and that is the thing you control. It is 164,000 on | :23:18. | :23:22. | |
the latest figures. There is no point in saying to the voters that | :23:23. | :23:25. | |
when we get control of the EU migration you will get it down when | :23:26. | :23:28. | |
the bit you have control over, you have failed to get that down into | :23:29. | :23:34. | |
the tens of thousands. The general trend has gone up. Non-EU migration | :23:35. | :23:38. | |
we have brought down over the last few years. Not by much, not by | :23:39. | :23:44. | |
anywhere near your 100,000 target. But we clearly have more tools | :23:45. | :23:49. | |
available to us, following Brexit. At this rate it will be around 2030 | :23:50. | :23:54. | |
before you get non-EU migration down to 100,000. We clearly have more | :23:55. | :23:57. | |
tools available to us and I return to the point I made. In the last six | :23:58. | :24:01. | |
or seven years, particularly the last four or five, we have seen the | :24:02. | :24:05. | |
UK jobs market growing substantially. It is extraordinary | :24:06. | :24:10. | |
how many more jobs we have. So you'll only promised the migration | :24:11. | :24:12. | |
target because you did not think you were going to run the economy well? | :24:13. | :24:17. | |
That is what you are telling me. I don't think anyone expected us to | :24:18. | :24:20. | |
create quite a number of jobs that we have done over the last six or | :24:21. | :24:25. | |
seven years. At the time when other European countries have not been. | :24:26. | :24:28. | |
George Osborne says your target is economically illiterate. I disagree | :24:29. | :24:33. | |
with George on that. He is my old boss but I disagree with him on that | :24:34. | :24:40. | |
point. And the reason I say that is looking at the economics and the | :24:41. | :24:43. | |
wider social impact, I don't think it is sustainable for us to have | :24:44. | :24:49. | |
hundreds of thousands, year after year after year. Let me ask you one | :24:50. | :24:52. | |
other thing because you are the chief secretary. Your promising that | :24:53. | :24:56. | |
spending on health will be ?8 billion higher in five use time than | :24:57. | :25:01. | |
it is now. How do you pay for that? From a strong economy, two years ago | :25:02. | :25:04. | |
we had a similar conversation because at that point we said that | :25:05. | :25:10. | |
we would increase spending by ?8 billion. And we are more than on | :25:11. | :25:14. | |
track to deliver it, because it is a priority area for us. Where will the | :25:15. | :25:18. | |
money come from? It will be a priority area for us. We will find | :25:19. | :25:23. | |
the money. So you have not been able to show us a revenue line where this | :25:24. | :25:28. | |
?8 billion will come from. We have a record of making promises to spend | :25:29. | :25:33. | |
more on the NHS and delivering. One thing I would say is that the only | :25:34. | :25:37. | |
way you can spend more money on the NHS is if you have a strong economy, | :25:38. | :25:42. | |
and the biggest risk... But that is true of anything. I am trying to | :25:43. | :25:46. | |
find out where the ?8 billion come from, where will it come from? Know | :25:47. | :25:50. | |
you were saying that perhaps you might increase taxes, ticking off | :25:51. | :25:54. | |
the lock, so people are right to be suspicious. But you will not tell us | :25:55. | :26:00. | |
where the ?8 billion will come from. Andrew, a strong economy is key to | :26:01. | :26:05. | |
delivering more NHS money. That does not tell us where the money is | :26:06. | :26:09. | |
coming from. The biggest risk to a strong economy would be a bad | :26:10. | :26:12. | |
Brexit, which Jeremy Corbyn would deliver. And we have a record of | :26:13. | :26:17. | |
putting more money into the NHS. I think that past performance we can | :26:18. | :26:20. | |
take forward. Thank you for joining us. | :26:21. | :26:22. | |
So, the Conservatives have been taking a bit of flak | :26:23. | :26:25. | |
But Conservative big guns have been out and about this morning taking | :26:26. | :26:29. | |
Here's Boris Johnson on ITV's Peston programme earlier today: | :26:30. | :26:32. | |
What we're trying to do is to address what I think | :26:33. | :26:36. | |
everybody, all serious demographers acknowledge will be the massive | :26:37. | :26:39. | |
problem of the cost of social care long-term. | :26:40. | :26:43. | |
This is a responsible, grown-up, conservative approach, | :26:44. | :26:47. | |
trying to deal with a long-term problem in a way that is equitable, | :26:48. | :26:50. | |
allows people to pass on a very substantial sum, | :26:51. | :26:52. | |
still, to their kids, and takes away the fear | :26:53. | :26:54. | |
Joining me now from Liverpool is Labour's Shadow Chief Secretary | :26:55. | :27:01. | |
Petered out, welcome to the programme. Let's start with social | :27:02. | :27:12. | |
care. The Tories are saying that if you have ?100,000 or more in assets, | :27:13. | :27:16. | |
you should pay for your own social care. What is wrong with that? Well, | :27:17. | :27:22. | |
I think the issue at the end of the day is the question of fairness. Is | :27:23. | :27:26. | |
it fair? And what we're trying to do is to get to a situation where we | :27:27. | :27:31. | |
have, for example, the Dilnot report, which identified that you | :27:32. | :27:36. | |
actually have cap on your spending on social care. We are trying to get | :27:37. | :27:39. | |
to a position where it is a reasonable and fair approach to | :27:40. | :27:46. | |
expenditure. But you will know that a lot of people, particularly in the | :27:47. | :27:50. | |
south of country, London and the south-east, and the adjacent areas | :27:51. | :27:55. | |
around it, they have benefited from huge house price inflation. They | :27:56. | :27:57. | |
have seen their homes go up in value, if and when they sell, they | :27:58. | :28:02. | |
are not taxed on that increase. Why should these people not pay for | :28:03. | :28:08. | |
their own social care if they have the assets to do so? They will be | :28:09. | :28:12. | |
paying for some of their social care but you cannot take social care and | :28:13. | :28:17. | |
health care separately. It has to be an integrated approach. So for | :28:18. | :28:20. | |
example if you do have dementia, you're more likely to be in an | :28:21. | :28:24. | |
elderly person's home for longer and you most probably have been in care | :28:25. | :28:28. | |
for a longer period of time. On the other hand, you might have, if you | :28:29. | :28:32. | |
have had a stroke, there may be continuing care needs paid for by | :28:33. | :28:35. | |
the NHS. So at the end of the date it is trying to get a reasonable | :28:36. | :28:39. | |
balance and just to pluck a figure of ?100,000 out of thin air is not | :28:40. | :28:48. | |
sensible. You will have heard me say about David Gold that the house | :28:49. | :28:53. | |
prices in his area, about 450,000 or so, not quite that, and that people | :28:54. | :28:57. | |
may have to spend quite a lot of that on social care to get down to | :28:58. | :29:03. | |
?100,000. But in your area, the average house price is only | :29:04. | :29:07. | |
?149,000, so your people would not have to pay anything like as much | :29:08. | :29:12. | |
before they hit the ?100,000 minimum. I hesitate to say that but | :29:13. | :29:18. | |
is that not almost a socialist approach to social care that if you | :29:19. | :29:21. | |
are in the affluent Home Counties with a big asset, you pay more, and | :29:22. | :29:26. | |
if you are in an area that is not so affluent and your house is not worth | :29:27. | :29:30. | |
very much, you pay a lot less. What is wrong with that principle? I | :29:31. | :29:34. | |
think the problem I am trying to get to is this issue about equity across | :29:35. | :29:39. | |
the piece. At the end of the day, what we want is a system whereby it | :29:40. | :29:45. | |
is capped at a particular level, and the Dilnot report, after much | :29:46. | :29:48. | |
examination, said we should have a cap on care costs at ?72,000. The | :29:49. | :29:53. | |
Conservatives decided to ditch that and come up with another policy | :29:54. | :29:56. | |
which by all accounts seems to be even more Draconian. At the end of | :29:57. | :30:01. | |
the day it is trying to get social care and an NHS care in a much more | :30:02. | :30:10. | |
fluid way. We had offered the Conservatives to have a bipartisan | :30:11. | :30:13. | |
approach to this. David just said that this is a long term. You do not | :30:14. | :30:17. | |
pick a figure out of thin air and use that as a long-term strategy. | :30:18. | :30:23. | |
The Conservatives are now saying they will increase health spending | :30:24. | :30:28. | |
over the next five years in real terms. You will increase health | :30:29. | :30:33. | |
spending. In what way is your approach to health spending better | :30:34. | :30:39. | |
than the Tories' now? We are contributing an extra 7.2 billion to | :30:40. | :30:45. | |
the NHS and social care over the next few years. But you just don't | :30:46. | :30:50. | |
put money into the NHS or social care. It has to be an integrated | :30:51. | :30:55. | |
approach to social and health care. What we've got is just more of the | :30:56. | :30:59. | |
same. What we don't want to do is just say, we ring-fenced an out for | :31:00. | :31:05. | |
here or there. What you have to do is try to get that... Let me ask you | :31:06. | :31:13. | |
again. In terms of the amount of resource that is going to be devoted | :31:14. | :31:17. | |
in the next five years, and resource does matter for the NHS, in what way | :31:18. | :31:23. | |
are your plans different now from the Conservative plans? The key is | :31:24. | :31:27. | |
how you use that resource. By just putting money in, you've got to say, | :31:28. | :31:33. | |
if we are going to put that money on, how do we use it? As somebody | :31:34. | :31:39. | |
who has worked in social care for 40 years, you have to have a different | :31:40. | :31:43. | |
approach to how you use that money. The money we are putting in, 7.7, | :31:44. | :31:49. | |
may be similar in cash terms to what the Tories claim they are putting | :31:50. | :31:53. | |
in, but it's not how much you put in per se, it is how you use it. You | :31:54. | :32:07. | |
are going to get rid of car parking charges in hospital, and you are | :32:08. | :32:10. | |
going to increase pay by taking the cap on pay off. So it doesn't | :32:11. | :32:12. | |
necessarily follow that the money, under your way of doing it, will | :32:13. | :32:15. | |
follow the front line. What you need in the NHS is a system that is | :32:16. | :32:19. | |
capable of dealing with the patience you have. What we have now is on at | :32:20. | :32:26. | |
five Asian of the NHS. Staff leaving, not being paid properly. So | :32:27. | :32:36. | |
pay and the NHS go hand in hand. Let's move onto another area of | :32:37. | :32:40. | |
policy where there is some confusion. Who speaks for the Labour | :32:41. | :32:45. | |
Party on nuclear weapons? Is it Emily Thornbury, or Nia Griffith, | :32:46. | :32:52. | |
defence spokesperson? The Labour manifesto. It is clear. We are | :32:53. | :32:57. | |
committed to the nuclear deterrent, and that is the definitive... Is it? | :32:58. | :33:07. | |
Emily Thornbury said that Trident could be scrapped in the defence | :33:08. | :33:11. | |
review you would have immediately after taking power. On LBC on Friday | :33:12. | :33:17. | |
night. She didn't, actually. I listened to that. What she actually | :33:18. | :33:22. | |
said is, as part of a Labour government coming in, a new | :33:23. | :33:27. | |
government, there is always a defence review. But not the concept | :33:28. | :33:31. | |
of Trident in its substance. She said there would be a review in | :33:32. | :33:38. | |
terms of, and this is in our manifesto. When you reduce | :33:39. | :33:42. | |
something, you review how it is operated. The review could scrap | :33:43. | :33:48. | |
Trident. It won't scrap Trident. The review is in the context of how you | :33:49. | :33:53. | |
protect it from cyber attacks. This will issue was seized upon that she | :33:54. | :33:59. | |
was saying that we would have another review of Trident or Labour | :34:00. | :34:04. | |
would ditch it. That is nonsense. You will have seen some reports that | :34:05. | :34:11. | |
MI5 opened a file on Jeremy Corbyn in the early 90s because of his | :34:12. | :34:15. | |
links to Irish republicanism. This has caused some people, his links to | :34:16. | :34:24. | |
the IRA and Sinn Fein, it has caused some concern. Could you just listen | :34:25. | :34:30. | |
to this clip and react. Do you condemn what the IRA did? I condemn | :34:31. | :34:37. | |
all bombing. But do you condemn what the IRA did? I condemn what was done | :34:38. | :34:42. | |
with the British Army as well as both sides as well. What happened in | :34:43. | :34:46. | |
Derry in 1972 was pretty devastating as well. Do you distinguish between | :34:47. | :34:53. | |
state forces, what the British Army did and the IRA? Well, in a sense, | :34:54. | :34:59. | |
the treatment of IRA prisoners which made them into virtual political | :35:00. | :35:05. | |
prisoners suggested that the British government and the state saw some | :35:06. | :35:09. | |
kind of almost equivalent in it. My point is that the whole violence if | :35:10. | :35:16. | |
you was terrible, was appalling, and came out of a process that had been | :35:17. | :35:23. | |
allowed to fester in Northern Ireland for a very long time. That | :35:24. | :35:28. | |
was from about two years ago. Can you explain why the Leader of the | :35:29. | :35:32. | |
Labour Party, Her Majesty 's opposition, the man who would be our | :35:33. | :35:36. | |
next Prime Minister, finds it so hard to condemn IRA arming? I think | :35:37. | :35:43. | |
it has to be within the context that Jeremy Corbyn for many years trying | :35:44. | :35:46. | |
to move the peace protest... Process along. So why wouldn't you condemn | :35:47. | :35:56. | |
IRA bombing? Again, that was an issue, a traumatic event in Irish - | :35:57. | :36:03. | |
British relations that went on for 30 years. It is a complicated | :36:04. | :36:08. | |
matter. Bombing is not that complicated. If you are a man of | :36:09. | :36:13. | |
peace, surely you would condemn the bomb and the bullet? Let me say | :36:14. | :36:18. | |
this, I condemn the bomb and the bullet. Why can't your leader? You | :36:19. | :36:24. | |
would have to ask Jeremy Corbyn, but that is in the context of what he | :36:25. | :36:28. | |
was trying to do over a 25 year period to move the priest process | :36:29. | :36:30. | |
along. Thank you for joining us. It's just gone 11.35, | :36:31. | :36:33. | |
you're watching the Sunday Politics. We say goodbye to viewers | :36:34. | :36:36. | |
in Scotland and Wales. Hello and welcome to the Sunday | :36:37. | :36:45. | |
Politics here in the West. On the march: A noisy protest | :36:46. | :36:49. | |
in Bristol yesterday complained But are the politicians keeping | :36:50. | :36:58. | |
quiet about austerity? I'm joined by four candidates - | :36:59. | :37:08. | |
They are the Conservative Richard Graham; Karin Smyth for Labour; | :37:09. | :37:11. | |
Wera Hobhouse for the Lib Dems All the talk in the papers this | :37:12. | :37:14. | |
morning is about the so-called weekend wobble, after the Tory | :37:15. | :37:23. | |
manifesto which tackled social care The Conservatives are trying | :37:24. | :37:27. | |
to limit the damage - the Work and Pensions Secretary said | :37:28. | :37:31. | |
on Andrew Marr this morning that it is wrong for people | :37:32. | :37:33. | |
like Mick Jagger to get it. Everyone who is in genuine | :37:34. | :37:41. | |
need of the winter fuel But we think the money | :37:42. | :37:44. | |
that is currently being spent on people who need it less, | :37:45. | :37:48. | |
many of whom have come up and said to me over the years, | :37:49. | :37:56. | |
"really, should I be getting this?" That money is better set in a social | :37:57. | :37:59. | |
care system that we all agree is one of the great challenges | :38:00. | :38:03. | |
facing our country. Richard Graham for the | :38:04. | :38:10. | |
Conservatives, just when it was going so well for you, this | :38:11. | :38:14. | |
manifesto doesn't seem to have gone down terribly well, particularly | :38:15. | :38:18. | |
with the elderly? I think the manifesto has gone done extremely | :38:19. | :38:21. | |
well with people whose major concerns are education and health. I | :38:22. | :38:24. | |
think they're absolute commitment to making sure there was a huge, real | :38:25. | :38:29. | |
terms increase in spending on the NHS and education is incredibly | :38:30. | :38:31. | |
reassuring for many of my constituents. People are worried | :38:32. | :38:37. | |
that dementia might not only take their minds but actually take their | :38:38. | :38:43. | |
homes as well? I think it is incredibly insensitive | :38:44. | :38:46. | |
scaremongering to talk about dementia tax, my mother had dementia | :38:47. | :38:47. | |
and died of it, this is not a tax, and died of it, this is not a tax, | :38:48. | :38:52. | |
this is about a fair contribution to the cost of care to all taxpayers | :38:53. | :38:58. | |
and the families affected. We will increase by four times the amount of | :38:59. | :39:01. | |
assets you can hand onto your family after your death. It could go down | :39:02. | :39:07. | |
to the last ?100,000 was like if you have a house in this part of the | :39:08. | :39:11. | |
world, worked hard all your life and a queue Nolito home, you could lose | :39:12. | :39:15. | |
it. If you need 15 years of care, you could lose the lot. -- you could | :39:16. | :39:24. | |
lose your home. It's the family that's going? It's the assets you | :39:25. | :39:28. | |
are handing of us that you can hand on ?100,000. But yes, those with | :39:29. | :39:32. | |
assets worth a lot of money will have to contribute more because that | :39:33. | :39:36. | |
is about how we can afford a social care system that we don't have at | :39:37. | :39:40. | |
Now, what we need to look at here is Now, what we need to look at here is | :39:41. | :39:46. | |
ensuring that all the people who have contributed to society, who | :39:47. | :39:49. | |
have families, are kept above the poverty line. The Green party policy | :39:50. | :39:53. | |
is to ensure year-on-year that is what happened. If the cost of living | :39:54. | :39:59. | |
increases, people and pensioners need to afford to live... The | :40:00. | :40:05. | |
handing of you I'm down to your family, or should that wealthy a | :40:06. | :40:10. | |
part of your estate for which you could pave your own care? What the | :40:11. | :40:17. | |
Green party seeks to do is provide everyone who needs social care with | :40:18. | :40:22. | |
social care. Free? Free at the point of use. That comes under the whole | :40:23. | :40:27. | |
banner of health care. People should be able to access health care... You | :40:28. | :40:31. | |
should make no contribution no should make no contribution no | :40:32. | :40:39. | |
matter how wealthy? The wealth tax that the Green party refer to is | :40:40. | :40:44. | |
something that is more in line with contributing and he austerity | :40:45. | :40:49. | |
measures. The wealthiest will be paying... Green policy, do you get | :40:50. | :40:58. | |
free social care or not? Yes, the Green policy is to provide social | :40:59. | :41:05. | |
care when people need it. The Lib Dem approach to this issue is | :41:06. | :41:09. | |
different. We are addressing head-on that we need to raise more money. So | :41:10. | :41:14. | |
we are saying 1p in the pound from income tax, so everyone makes a | :41:15. | :41:17. | |
contribution. That will go nowhere. We will raise ?6 billion a year. If | :41:18. | :41:28. | |
we increase that by year, we can guarantee the health and social care | :41:29. | :41:30. | |
bills will be paid for. And the whole approach is about solidarity. | :41:31. | :41:37. | |
People pay according to their ability, but everyone makes a | :41:38. | :41:40. | |
contribution and whether people are getting ill and needing long-term | :41:41. | :41:43. | |
care or not, the burden will be shared. So you can put your house? | :41:44. | :41:52. | |
City keep your house? We're not saying that people lose | :41:53. | :41:59. | |
people who are higher earners and more... I'm not talking about cash, | :42:00. | :42:06. | |
I'm talking about houses. We have not said anything -- we have not | :42:07. | :42:13. | |
said anything about times, we will guarantee that everyone in will get | :42:14. | :42:19. | |
their hopes health and social care paid for. We are now seeing this | :42:20. | :42:24. | |
myth of strong and stable going away and think there was no compassion at | :42:25. | :42:28. | |
the heart of this Conservative government. I have thought about | :42:29. | :42:31. | |
this to four years. Last time they said there would be a cap on care. | :42:32. | :42:35. | |
They get older people certainty and dignity at all the rage, got into | :42:36. | :42:40. | |
power two months later they kicked it into the long glass to lay grass. | :42:41. | :42:44. | |
Out of the blue this week, they landed this bomb shell on older | :42:45. | :42:51. | |
people and their families. We need to contribute over time but it is a | :42:52. | :42:54. | |
major discussion for all the generations you have. The deal not | :42:55. | :43:01. | |
proposals, gave a degree of certainty, and we could think how we | :43:02. | :43:03. | |
do involve people in the discussion do involve people in the discussion | :43:04. | :43:06. | |
about the best method to raise the money. With all due respect, | :43:07. | :43:09. | |
Richard, I'm afraid the resurrection of this as a death tax to say to | :43:10. | :43:13. | |
people, whatever else you should get, you don't know what will happen | :43:14. | :43:17. | |
to you. You'll have to suddenly alter your entire life plan. That | :43:18. | :43:23. | |
loss of dignity and care, and people are talking on the doorstep, | :43:24. | :43:26. | |
yesterday I went to a woman whose husband has a stroke inside her | :43:27. | :43:31. | |
house. The real cruelty about this is about suddenly having to pay for | :43:32. | :43:35. | |
your social care costs, keeping people at home out of hospital, a | :43:36. | :43:42. | |
major issue for hospitals, social care is a bit of a term people don't | :43:43. | :43:45. | |
understand. That is helping people get dressed in the morning, taking | :43:46. | :43:50. | |
their medication. If they went to hospital they get it free? If they | :43:51. | :43:53. | |
have to come home, then that would be totalled up and when you're dead | :43:54. | :43:58. | |
you get the bill? We don't know the details because of the out of the | :43:59. | :44:02. | |
blue. There will be some details. There are no details of four people | :44:03. | :44:08. | |
vote. On a day which is the anniversary of the murder of Jo Cox | :44:09. | :44:11. | |
with her strong belief that what brings us together is more important | :44:12. | :44:14. | |
than what divides us, we should recognise that there was no | :44:15. | :44:18. | |
government yet that has resolved the issue of social care. There's a plan | :44:19. | :44:22. | |
on the table which you have kicked around for two years, done nothing | :44:23. | :44:27. | |
about it, and you put out of the blue. Because you think you're | :44:28. | :44:32. | |
walking this election. If I can briefly reply. The Dilnot commission | :44:33. | :44:37. | |
proposal will have provided a cap on the amount any family had to pay. | :44:38. | :44:41. | |
But would not have been right for a millionaire living and an enormous | :44:42. | :44:45. | |
house with a huge amount of assets, let's take Philip Green for the sake | :44:46. | :44:51. | |
of either. The total costs his family would pay... He's a long way | :44:52. | :44:55. | |
from my constituency and yours. We have capped the floor so everyone | :44:56. | :44:59. | |
knows they can hand over ?100,000 of assets, whatever the cost of their | :45:00. | :45:05. | |
care. This has been a subject of Royal commissions for 20 years and I | :45:06. | :45:08. | |
know the Conservative Party doesn't like to hear about experts, but the | :45:09. | :45:12. | |
experts have gone through this and massive details, there is a plan on | :45:13. | :45:14. | |
the deep in the Department of Health, that | :45:15. | :45:20. | |
has been thrown City that is then thrown into the air. If you read the | :45:21. | :45:27. | |
papers this morning it is full of the latest manifesto stories and the | :45:28. | :45:32. | |
wedding of Pippa Middleton. Should the Middleton 's get a fuel | :45:33. | :45:39. | |
allowance? They have spent tens of thousands on this wedding, the | :45:40. | :45:45. | |
honeymoon is ?300,000. Do people like that, decently partial, but do | :45:46. | :45:49. | |
they deemed a fuel allowance? The basis of our society, of this | :45:50. | :45:54. | |
country, I'm astonished in this election, it's five years since we | :45:55. | :45:57. | |
took my family to the Olympics to celebrate how great this country and | :45:58. | :46:02. | |
our culture. We come together and pool are risks, we give according to | :46:03. | :46:07. | |
our means... You need to spend money on rich people claiming fuel? The | :46:08. | :46:11. | |
basis of our way of telling whether welfare Society is taxing people -- | :46:12. | :46:17. | |
bases of our welfare society is taxing people fairly. If the | :46:18. | :46:23. | |
Middleton 's don't get it, they should be taxed fairly. There were | :46:24. | :46:26. | |
long way from our constituents. Hang on. It's being part of the entire | :46:27. | :46:35. | |
system. Absolutely. I keep stressing, we believe in solidarity. | :46:36. | :46:39. | |
I don't want to start with the politics of envy, Saint bees before | :46:40. | :46:42. | |
the habit of those shouldn't be allowed because they can afford a | :46:43. | :46:48. | |
wonderful wedding. Mike Pepper. -- like Pippa Middleton. Is it fair | :46:49. | :46:57. | |
that a quarter of us that will house dementia, why shouldn't we share | :46:58. | :47:01. | |
that burden around? Is not just the tragedy of looking after somebody | :47:02. | :47:04. | |
with a long-term condition but what happens to the families afterwards. | :47:05. | :47:09. | |
One must quit word from Charley. Irrespective of fuel that respect of | :47:10. | :47:13. | |
fuel tax, everyone should be able to heat their home, cook their food, | :47:14. | :47:19. | |
but the people that don't need it don't have to take it, is the | :47:20. | :47:25. | |
answer, surely. Means testing is greatly unfair. | :47:26. | :47:27. | |
If one word has dominated politics over the past seven | :47:28. | :47:34. | |
Tough government spending cuts designed to fix | :47:35. | :47:37. | |
But it's hardly been mentioned during the current | :47:38. | :47:40. | |
We sent Dickon Hooper to find out why. | :47:41. | :47:42. | |
Yes, we're going to have to make difficult decisions, yes, | :47:43. | :47:46. | |
we're going to have to make some difficult and painful cuts. | :47:47. | :47:51. | |
One of the biggest economic crises of the post-war era. | :47:52. | :48:03. | |
Let me make it clear, austerity is a political choice. | :48:04. | :48:09. | |
It's also something not really being discussed in this election. | :48:10. | :48:12. | |
But its effects are definitely being felt. | :48:13. | :48:19. | |
You've got to learn to know what your limitations are. | :48:20. | :48:23. | |
Rich has run this coffee stand in a Bristol park | :48:24. | :48:29. | |
He's angry the park's historic swings were demolished, | :48:30. | :48:36. | |
and won't be replaced because of the cuts. | :48:37. | :48:40. | |
So the community is raising money itself. | :48:41. | :48:43. | |
We've raised about ?4000 so far, so we're a third of the way | :48:44. | :48:47. | |
The swings were cut because of austerity, | :48:48. | :48:52. | |
but people have rallied around, is that sustainable? | :48:53. | :48:55. | |
This is the first time we've had to go to the community | :48:56. | :48:58. | |
and ask them to help pay for a piece of equipment. | :48:59. | :49:01. | |
If we were doing that every year, every six months, people | :49:02. | :49:04. | |
A small example of austerity perhaps, but it's important | :49:05. | :49:10. | |
Is it important to voters in the general election though? | :49:11. | :49:17. | |
What's the most important issue in this election for you? | :49:18. | :49:19. | |
I'm a teacher and I have two children, one of which is | :49:20. | :49:30. | |
about to start school and the cuts are massive. | :49:31. | :49:32. | |
What about the swings here, do you miss them? | :49:33. | :49:36. | |
They are a sign of austerity aren't they? | :49:37. | :49:49. | |
We are seeing school trips cancelled... | :49:50. | :49:55. | |
This protest attracted maybe a thousand people | :49:56. | :49:58. | |
A noisy end to a week in which the main parties | :49:59. | :50:05. | |
And for those pouring over the small print, | :50:06. | :50:11. | |
austerity should still be a talking point. | :50:12. | :50:20. | |
Austerity and cuts ought to be a big issue, because certainly | :50:21. | :50:22. | |
the Conservatives are still planning some pretty big cuts going forward | :50:23. | :50:25. | |
to most areas of public spending and really tough on public sector | :50:26. | :50:28. | |
pay, relative, particularly, to what the Labour Party are suggesting. | :50:29. | :50:32. | |
So there are differences between the parties. | :50:33. | :50:34. | |
There's a lot of austerity still to come, we think, | :50:35. | :50:37. | |
Their manifesto is not very explicit. | :50:38. | :50:41. | |
And quite big spending increases if we get a Labour | :50:42. | :50:44. | |
government, so some big differences between them. | :50:45. | :50:50. | |
So voters perhaps should wake up and smell the coffee. | :50:51. | :50:52. | |
Austerity is still with us, And the parties have very different | :50:53. | :50:56. | |
Cameron Smith from Labour, four more bank holidays if Labour getting, and | :50:57. | :51:14. | |
NT public sector pay restraint, money to spend on nationalisation, | :51:15. | :51:18. | |
where is the cash coming from? As you know, and has been debated this | :51:19. | :51:23. | |
morning, our manifesto is costed fully and like the Conservative. But | :51:24. | :51:26. | |
I disagree with your film, the only thing people are talking about is | :51:27. | :51:31. | |
the cuts. Particularly around education, the school gates at my | :51:32. | :51:34. | |
constituency every school is losing out, parents know that. There was a | :51:35. | :51:39. | |
big march in Bristol yesterday. And the health service. That is all the | :51:40. | :51:43. | |
people are talking about now. Spending actually going up? The | :51:44. | :51:48. | |
Prime Minister called this election because she wanted to look strong | :51:49. | :51:50. | |
and stable, and people love the boat is because they are talking fixing | :51:51. | :51:55. | |
Mac with the voters because they talk about things that matter to | :51:56. | :51:59. | |
them, there Talanoa the when you say about the cuts, do you | :52:00. | :52:09. | |
say, don't worry about those under a Labour government, there won't be | :52:10. | :52:12. | |
any quiver that I listen to what people are saying. I say clearly, | :52:13. | :52:17. | |
vote for a strong voice locally from the Labour Party. We will stand up | :52:18. | :52:22. | |
for you on those things. I have been talking about more services in South | :52:23. | :52:28. | |
Bristol hospital, GP services, a GP service close to my constituency. | :52:29. | :52:32. | |
People in my constituency and self but are well aware... We are talking | :52:33. | :52:35. | |
that individual things. Putter are not talk about individual thing. I | :52:36. | :52:42. | |
do you not tell people to vote for Corbyn? I tell people to vote for | :52:43. | :52:48. | |
the Labour Party. Do you think Auburn will be ago by Minister? I | :52:49. | :52:54. | |
want to Labour by Minister. But we know she will court called the | :52:55. | :53:00. | |
selection... Can you say that Jeremy Corbyn will be ago by Minister? Of | :53:01. | :53:04. | |
course I can say Jeremy Corbyn. He'll be better than the a | :53:05. | :53:10. | |
Conservative government. To nationalise the water companies | :53:11. | :53:14. | |
alone would use ?70 billion of money. Try and listen occasionally | :53:15. | :53:18. | |
to someone else, just as we listen to you. The idea that we can promise | :53:19. | :53:24. | |
everything on public spending, nationalisation, and all the rest of | :53:25. | :53:28. | |
it, is, I'm afraid, simply not credible. The truth of the word | :53:29. | :53:34. | |
austerity is that it really means living within your means and when | :53:35. | :53:41. | |
they get. We had ?150 billion of deficit every year, we got it down | :53:42. | :53:43. | |
to just under 50 billion, and we've to just under 50 billion, and we've | :53:44. | :53:47. | |
got a way to go. What we have done is stretched this out over a longer | :53:48. | :53:52. | |
period of time, so there isn't too much pain specifically in health and | :53:53. | :53:55. | |
education which are crucial sectors. But we have got to keep finding ways | :53:56. | :54:00. | |
of living within our means. Why wasn't your manifesto costed? There | :54:01. | :54:07. | |
are things on the winter fuel allowance, it's right that we | :54:08. | :54:10. | |
shouldn't be giving it to the richest people... And what level? | :54:11. | :54:16. | |
You had people calling over the Labour manifesto trying to find | :54:17. | :54:21. | |
bombs, and you haven't done your own? That's because we haven't made | :54:22. | :54:25. | |
the same reckless spending commitments that the Labour have, | :54:26. | :54:28. | |
we're not renationalisation costs a fortune, and we aren't making | :54:29. | :54:31. | |
promises that we can't deliver. You not worried about the damage done to | :54:32. | :54:35. | |
the fabric of our society by continual reductions in spending in | :54:36. | :54:38. | |
real terms was not worried about the damage done to the fabric of our | :54:39. | :54:41. | |
society by continual reductions in spending in real terms? Particularly | :54:42. | :54:43. | |
schools? Now. Because we made this commitment that we have 4 billion | :54:44. | :54:49. | |
extra over what inflation will likely amount to over the next five | :54:50. | :54:53. | |
years. We put a huge amount of money into expenditure programme for | :54:54. | :54:56. | |
schools to expand to more pupils, and I have seen in my own | :54:57. | :55:00. | |
constituency that the number of schools which are delivering either | :55:01. | :55:02. | |
good or outstanding Ofsted results and getting chills and the results | :55:03. | :55:06. | |
they want is increasing all the time. Let's bring in Wera. The Lib | :55:07. | :55:12. | |
Dems in their manifesto claimed they will eliminate the deficit in three | :55:13. | :55:13. | |
years. That is harsher than anybody years. That is harsher than anybody | :55:14. | :55:20. | |
else in this room? It was definitely important to cut the deficit | :55:21. | :55:23. | |
originally. After the financial crisis, I want to finish my point. | :55:24. | :55:32. | |
What the cuts are being done now just cool and they are damaging | :55:33. | :55:33. | |
long-term Young people are future and we need | :55:34. | :55:47. | |
to put money into them. Two of three head teachers say they have two lay | :55:48. | :55:52. | |
off members of staff. I have been a headteacher in the school, that is | :55:53. | :55:56. | |
damaging. We know the problem. Have pledged to pay off the deficit in | :55:57. | :55:59. | |
three years, that would mean you would have to make a large cuts. | :56:00. | :56:07. | |
Our manifesto is costed. It is important that we make sure that the | :56:08. | :56:13. | |
money, particularly the pupil premium is there for disadvantaged | :56:14. | :56:17. | |
young people to make progress in school. These are the areas we are | :56:18. | :56:23. | |
focusing on. This is what we need to do because of current cuts. I'm not | :56:24. | :56:27. | |
quite clear whether spending savings are coming from in your case. We are | :56:28. | :56:35. | |
not going ahead with County corporation tax and our manifesto is | :56:36. | :56:39. | |
also fully costed. I think it's interesting that Richard mentions | :56:40. | :56:42. | |
the true meaning of austerity because we all know austerity is a | :56:43. | :56:47. | |
choice that his government made to effectively pack tax the poor rather | :56:48. | :56:50. | |
than the rich. There was essentially a choice. You could increment | :56:51. | :56:57. | |
transactions tax, maybe 0.05% of transactions with brings billions | :56:58. | :57:00. | |
but instead, they are choosing to take swings away from local parks or | :57:01. | :57:05. | |
take teachers away from school. Taking nurses to food banks. That is | :57:06. | :57:09. | |
choice that has been made by the choice that has been made by the | :57:10. | :57:15. | |
Tory government. How would you the Green party create wealth cover for | :57:16. | :57:17. | |
your good at spending money, and that's not much that I have seen... | :57:18. | :57:24. | |
You would not write of student debt? We wouldn't write off student that | :57:25. | :57:29. | |
because... But ?14 billion. Its ?14 billion of its all paid. But a small | :57:30. | :57:34. | |
amount is actually paid anyway. Why should we tax our young people going | :57:35. | :57:38. | |
into the future quiz of the weight of the money come from? How would | :57:39. | :57:41. | |
you create wealth. How do you grow the pie? Can you go pie? I think | :57:42. | :57:47. | |
that is the expression that the business users. Wealth can come from | :57:48. | :57:52. | |
many different sources, one of them being actively enforcing corporation | :57:53. | :57:58. | |
tax. How would you grow it? That is growing at. What the current | :57:59. | :58:03. | |
government has done in austerity is taking away from the poor, and the | :58:04. | :58:07. | |
most vulnerable. Let's start taking some money away from the top 1%, the | :58:08. | :58:14. | |
top 1% of earners. The top 1% of earners earn money each year, taxing | :58:15. | :58:17. | |
than just a little bit more, this is just the top 1%. Can you give me one | :58:18. | :58:22. | |
way of how the Greens would grow the economy? Just one? The renewable | :58:23. | :58:29. | |
sector. A huge sector that we have in this country and could grow. | :58:30. | :58:34. | |
Doing what? The Tory argument on Hinckley is that it's going to make | :58:35. | :58:41. | |
jobs and money, how is that not growing the economy to invest in | :58:42. | :58:47. | |
young people. That's taking money, what industries would you grow? The | :58:48. | :58:50. | |
renewable sector is an industry, David. It's an industry where people | :58:51. | :58:55. | |
have jobs where you are providing for the communities and that is a | :58:56. | :58:59. | |
whole sector and the whole industry that would generate billions. Karin, | :59:00. | :59:03. | |
a quick word. The investment in our young people in the future is a | :59:04. | :59:07. | |
different view of society than the one we're now getting from the | :59:08. | :59:10. | |
Conservative government. They are worried about the future and Brexit, | :59:11. | :59:15. | |
there is a deal of uncertainty. That uncertainty is the greatest thing I | :59:16. | :59:17. | |
faced talking to people everyday. There was nothing provided by the | :59:18. | :59:20. | |
Conservative government to sure that up. Very last. Why uncertainty? You | :59:21. | :59:29. | |
need a strong government with the leadership going to be to take us | :59:30. | :59:32. | |
through this rather than having parties which are fighting like rats | :59:33. | :59:35. | |
with each other. That's all we got time for this week I'm afraid. | :59:36. | :59:39. | |
cancelled. And rent to own is still our policy. Thank you very much, Tom | :59:40. | :59:41. | |
Brake. Andrew, back to you. So, two and half weeks | :59:42. | :59:47. | |
to go till polling day, let's take stock of the campaign | :59:48. | :59:50. | |
so far and look ahead Sam, Isabel and Steve | :59:51. | :59:52. | |
are with me again. Sam, Mrs May had made a great thing | :59:53. | :00:06. | |
about the just about managing. Not the poorest of the poor, but not | :00:07. | :00:11. | |
really affluent people, who are maybe OK but it's a bit of a | :00:12. | :00:17. | |
struggle. What is in the manifesto for them? There is something about | :00:18. | :00:21. | |
the high profile items in the manifesto. She said she wants to | :00:22. | :00:25. | |
help those just above the poorest level. But if you look at things | :00:26. | :00:30. | |
like the winter fuel allowance, which is going to be given only to | :00:31. | :00:35. | |
the poorest. If you look at free school meals for infants, those for | :00:36. | :00:40. | |
the poorest are going to be kept, but the rest will go. The social | :00:41. | :00:45. | |
care plan, those who are renting or in properties worth up to ?90,000, | :00:46. | :00:51. | |
they are going to be treated, but those in properties worth above | :00:52. | :00:58. | |
that, 250,000, for example, will have to pay. Which leads to the | :00:59. | :01:03. | |
question - what is being done for the just about managings? There is | :01:04. | :01:08. | |
something, the personal allowance that David Cameron promised in 2015, | :01:09. | :01:13. | |
that they are not making a big deal of that, because they cannot say by | :01:14. | :01:19. | |
how much. So you are looking in tax rises on the just about managings. | :01:20. | :01:26. | |
Where will the tax rises come from. We do not know, that there is the 40 | :01:27. | :01:35. | |
million pounds gap for the Tories to reach what they are pledging in | :01:36. | :01:39. | |
their manifesto. We do not know how that is going to be made up, more | :01:40. | :01:45. | |
tax, or more borrowing? So that is why the questions of the | :01:46. | :01:48. | |
implications of removing the tax lock are so potentially difficult | :01:49. | :01:53. | |
for Tory MPs. The Labour manifesto gives figures for the cost of | :01:54. | :01:57. | |
certain policies and where the revenue will come from. You can | :01:58. | :02:00. | |
argue about the figures, but at least we have the figures. The Tory | :02:01. | :02:06. | |
manifesto is opaque on these matters. That applies to both the | :02:07. | :02:10. | |
manifestos. Looking at the Labour manifesto on the way here this | :02:11. | :02:14. | |
morning, when you look at the section on care for the elderly, | :02:15. | :02:18. | |
they simply say, there are various ways in which the money for this can | :02:19. | :02:23. | |
be raised. They are specific on other things. They are, and we heard | :02:24. | :02:29. | |
John McDonnell this morning being very on that, and saying there is | :02:30. | :02:36. | |
not a single ? in Tory manifesto. I have only got to page 66. It is | :02:37. | :02:43. | |
quite broad brush and they are very open to challenge. For example, on | :02:44. | :02:48. | |
the detail of a number of their flagship things. There is no detail | :02:49. | :02:53. | |
on their immigration policy. They reiterate the ambition, but not how | :02:54. | :02:58. | |
they are going to do that, without a massive increase in resource for | :02:59. | :03:05. | |
Borders officials. We are at a time where average wages are lagging | :03:06. | :03:10. | |
behind prices. And in work benefits remain frozen. I would have thought | :03:11. | :03:15. | |
that the just-about-managings are people who are in work but they need | :03:16. | :03:20. | |
some in work benefits to make life tolerable and be able to pay bills. | :03:21. | :03:26. | |
Doesn't she has to do more for them? Maybe, but this whole manifesto was | :03:27. | :03:34. | |
her inner circle saying, right, this is our chance to express our... It | :03:35. | :03:40. | |
partly reads like a sort of philosophical essay at times. About | :03:41. | :03:45. | |
the challenges, individualism against collectivism. Some of it | :03:46. | :03:49. | |
reads quite well and is quite interesting, but in terms of its | :03:50. | :03:55. | |
detail, Labour would never get away with it. They wouldn't be allowed to | :03:56. | :04:00. | |
be so vague about where taxes are going to rise. We know there are | :04:01. | :04:04. | |
going to be tax rises after the election, but we don't know where | :04:05. | :04:09. | |
they will be. 100%, there will be tax rises. We know that they wanted | :04:10. | :04:16. | |
a tax rise in the last budget, but they couldn't get it through because | :04:17. | :04:22. | |
of the 2015 manifesto. Labour do offer a lot more detail. People | :04:23. | :04:27. | |
could disagree with it, but there is a lot more detail. More to get your | :04:28. | :04:33. | |
teeth into. About capital gains tax and the rises for better owners and | :04:34. | :04:39. | |
so on. The SNP manifesto comes out this week, and the Greens and Sinn | :04:40. | :04:45. | |
Fein. We think Ukip as well. There are more manifestos to come. The Lib | :04:46. | :04:48. | |
Dems have already brought theirs out. Isn't the Liberal Democrat | :04:49. | :04:55. | |
campaign in trouble? It doesn't seem to be doing particular the well in | :04:56. | :05:02. | |
the polls, or at the local elections a few weeks ago. The Liberal | :05:03. | :05:04. | |
Democrats are trying to fish in quite a small pool for votes. They | :05:05. | :05:10. | |
are looking to get votes from those remainers who want to reverse the | :05:11. | :05:15. | |
result, in effect. Tim Farron is promising a second referendum on the | :05:16. | :05:20. | |
deal at the end of the negotiation process. And that is a hard sell. So | :05:21. | :05:28. | |
those voting for remain on June 23 are not low hanging fruit by any | :05:29. | :05:34. | |
means? Polls suggesting that half of those want to reverse the result, so | :05:35. | :05:39. | |
that is a feeling of about 20% on the Lib Dems, and they are getting | :05:40. | :05:43. | |
slightly less than half at the moment, but there are not a huge | :05:44. | :05:48. | |
amount of votes for them to get on that strategy. It doesn't feel like | :05:49. | :05:56. | |
Tim Farron and the Lib Dems have promised enough. They are making a | :05:57. | :06:02. | |
very serious case on cannabis use in a nightclub, but the optics of what | :06:03. | :06:05. | |
they are discussing doesn't make them look like an anchor in a future | :06:06. | :06:09. | |
coalition government that they would need to be. I wonder if we are | :06:10. | :06:14. | |
seeing the re-emergence of the 2-party system? And it is not the | :06:15. | :06:18. | |
same two parties. In Scotland, the dynamics of this election seemed to | :06:19. | :06:22. | |
be the Nationalists against the Conservatives. In England, if you | :06:23. | :06:24. | |
look at what has happened to be Ukip vote, and what Sam was saying about | :06:25. | :06:42. | |
the Lib Dems are struggling a bit to get some traction, it is | :06:43. | :06:43. | |
overwhelmingly Labour and the Conservatives. A different 2-party | :06:44. | :06:46. | |
system from Scotland, but a 2-party system. There are a number of | :06:47. | :06:48. | |
different election is going on in parallel. In Scotland it is about | :06:49. | :06:53. | |
whether you are unionist or not. Here, we have the collapse of the | :06:54. | :06:57. | |
Ukip vote, which looks as though it is being redistributed in the | :06:58. | :07:04. | |
Tories' favour. This is a unique election, and will not necessarily | :07:05. | :07:09. | |
set the trend for elections to come. In the Tory manifesto, I spotted the | :07:10. | :07:12. | |
fact that the fixed term Parliament act is going to be scrapped. That | :07:13. | :07:21. | |
got almost no coverage! It turned out to be academic anyway, that it | :07:22. | :07:25. | |
tells you something about how Theresa May is feeling, and she | :07:26. | :07:29. | |
wants the control to call an election whenever it suits her. | :07:30. | :07:34. | |
Re-emergence of the 2-party system, for this election or beyond? For | :07:35. | :07:43. | |
this election, yes, but it shows the sort of robust strength of parties | :07:44. | :07:47. | |
and their fragility. In other words, the Lib Dems haven't really | :07:48. | :07:52. | |
recovered from the losses in the last general election, and are | :07:53. | :07:57. | |
therefore not really seen as a robust vehicle to deliver Remain. If | :07:58. | :08:00. | |
they were, they might be doing better. The Labour Party hasn't | :08:01. | :08:06. | |
recovered in Scotland, and yet, if you look at the basic divide in | :08:07. | :08:10. | |
England and Scotland and you see two parties battling it out, it is very, | :08:11. | :08:15. | |
very hard for the smaller parties to break through and last. Many appear | :08:16. | :08:20. | |
briefly on the political stage and then disappear again. The election | :08:21. | :08:26. | |
had the ostensible goal of Brexit, but we haven't heard much about it | :08:27. | :08:31. | |
in the campaign. Perhaps the Tories want to get back onto that. David | :08:32. | :08:38. | |
Davis sounding quite tough this morning, the Brexit minister, saying | :08:39. | :08:42. | |
there is no chance we will talk about 100 billion. And we have to | :08:43. | :08:46. | |
have power in the negotiations on the free trade deal or what ever it | :08:47. | :08:51. | |
is. I think they are keen to get the subject of the manifesto at this | :08:52. | :08:55. | |
point, because it has not started too well. There is an irony that | :08:56. | :09:00. | |
Theresa May ostensibly called the election because she needed a | :09:01. | :09:05. | |
stronger hand in the Brexit negotiations, and there was an | :09:06. | :09:08. | |
opportunity for the Lib Dems, with their unique offer of being the | :09:09. | :09:11. | |
party that is absolutely against the outcome of the referendum, and | :09:12. | :09:17. | |
offering another chance. There hasn't been much airtime on that | :09:18. | :09:22. | |
particular pledge, because instead, this election has segued into being | :09:23. | :09:28. | |
all about leadership. Theresa May's leadership, and looking again at the | :09:29. | :09:33. | |
Tory manifesto, I was struck that she was saying that this is my plan | :09:34. | :09:40. | |
for the future, not ABBA plan. Even when talking about social care, he | :09:41. | :09:46. | |
manages to work in a bit about Theresa May and Brexit. And Boris | :09:47. | :09:50. | |
Johnson this morning, an interview he gave on another political | :09:51. | :09:55. | |
programme this morning, it was extraordinarily sycophantic for him. | :09:56. | :09:59. | |
Isn't Theresa May wonderful. There is a man trying to secure his job in | :10:00. | :10:06. | |
the Foreign Office! Will he succeed? I think she will leave him. Better | :10:07. | :10:12. | |
in the tent than out. What did you make of David Davis' remarks? He was | :10:13. | :10:18. | |
basically saying, we will walk away from the negotiating table if the | :10:19. | :10:24. | |
Europeans slam a bill for 100 billion euros. The point is that the | :10:25. | :10:32. | |
Europeans will not slam a bill for 100 billion euros on the negotiating | :10:33. | :10:36. | |
table. That is the gross figure. There are all sorts of things that | :10:37. | :10:41. | |
need to be taken into account. I imagine they will ask for something | :10:42. | :10:46. | |
around the 50 or ?60 billion mark. It looks that they are trying to | :10:47. | :10:54. | |
make it look like a concession when they do make their demands in order | :10:55. | :10:56. | |
to soften the ground for what is going to happen just two weeks after | :10:57. | :11:02. | |
general election day. He makes a reasonable point about having | :11:03. | :11:06. | |
parallel talks. What they want to do straightaway is deal with the bill, | :11:07. | :11:09. | |
Northern Ireland and citizens rights. All of those things are very | :11:10. | :11:14. | |
complicated and interlinked issues, which cannot be dealt with in | :11:15. | :11:18. | |
isolation. I wouldn't be surprised if we ended up with parallel talks, | :11:19. | :11:23. | |
just to work out where we are going with Northern Ireland and the | :11:24. | :11:29. | |
border. Steve, you can't work out what the Northern Ireland border | :11:30. | :11:33. | |
will be, and EU citizens' writes here, until you work out what our | :11:34. | :11:38. | |
relationship with the EU in the future will be. Indeed. The British | :11:39. | :11:43. | |
government is under pressure to deal quickly with the border issue in | :11:44. | :11:48. | |
Ireland, but feel they can't do so because when you have a tariff free | :11:49. | :11:52. | |
arrangement outcome, or an arrangement that is much more | :11:53. | :11:55. | |
protectionist, and that will determine partly the nature of the | :11:56. | :12:00. | |
border. You cannot have a quick agreement on that front without | :12:01. | :12:03. | |
knowing the rest of the deal. I think the negotiation will be | :12:04. | :12:07. | |
complex. I am certain they want a deal rather than none, because this | :12:08. | :12:12. | |
is no deal thing is part of the negotiation at this early stage. | :12:13. | :12:18. | |
Sounding tough in the general election campaign also works | :12:19. | :12:21. | |
electorally. But after the election, it will be a tough negotiation, | :12:22. | :12:29. | |
beginning with this cost of Brexit. My understanding is that the | :12:30. | :12:32. | |
government feels it's got to make the Europeans think they will not do | :12:33. | :12:37. | |
a deal in order to get a deal. They don't want no deal. Absolutely not. | :12:38. | :12:42. | |
And I'm sure it plays into the election. I'm sure the rhetoric will | :12:43. | :12:45. | |
change when the election is over. That's all for today, | :12:46. | :12:50. | |
thank you to all my guests. The Daily Politics will be | :12:51. | :12:52. | |
back on BBC Two at 12.00 And tomorrow evening I will be | :12:53. | :12:55. | |
starting my series of interviews with the party leaders - | :12:56. | :12:59. | |
first up is the Prime Minister, Theresa May, | :13:00. | :13:01. | |
that's at 7pm on BBC One. And I'll be back here at the same | :13:02. | :13:03. | |
time on BBC One next Sunday. Remember - if it's Sunday, | :13:04. | :13:07. | |
it's the Sunday Politics. We've made great strides | :13:08. | :13:56. | |
tackling HIV. Imagine if we could | :13:57. | :13:57. | |
create a movement Hello, there! | :13:58. | :13:59. | |
I bet you weren't expecting me. Well, I'm thrilled to tell you | :14:00. | :14:32. | |
that today but no battle like the battle | :14:33. | :14:41. | |
we're going to see today | :14:42. | :14:45. |