Browse content similar to 15/07/2012. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Welcome to the Sunday Politics. An epic spat in the Commons would | :00:42. | :00:52. | |
:00:52. | :01:21. | ||
Tories queuing up to strangle Nick Coming up in half an hour, the | :01:21. | :01:25. | |
Yorkshire MP calling for the return of capital punishment, what impact | :01:25. | :01:35. | |
:01:35. | :01:35. | ||
Apology for the loss of subtitles for 1800 seconds | :01:35. | :31:35. | |
does a trip to death row in the USA Hello, good afternoon. This is | :31:35. | :31:39. | |
Sunday Politics for Yorkshire, Lincolnshire and the North Midlands. | :31:40. | :31:44. | |
Coming up, the Yorkshire MP calling for the return of capital | :31:44. | :31:50. | |
punishment. What impact does a trip to death row in the USA have won | :31:50. | :31:55. | |
his beliefs? You never know, I might go back and think maybe it is | :31:55. | :32:02. | |
not the right idea. Our guests are death penalty | :32:02. | :32:08. | |
supporter, the Conservative MP for Shipley, Philip Davies, and Edward | :32:08. | :32:11. | |
McMillan-Scott, Liberal Democrat MEP and human rights campaigner | :32:11. | :32:15. | |
very much against the death penalty. Before we get on to the main | :32:15. | :32:20. | |
talking point Michael the day, can I ask about a story in the papers | :32:20. | :32:24. | |
this week, claiming you and members of the committee you represent | :32:24. | :32:30. | |
accepted tickets from BT to attend the men's 100 metres final at the | :32:30. | :32:35. | |
Olympics, the blue riband event. Do you intend to attend that event? | :32:35. | :32:40. | |
Absolutely, yes. I have been on the select committee for six years, | :32:40. | :32:43. | |
scrutinising the preparations for the Olympics. My first meeting was | :32:43. | :32:49. | |
at the Olympic Park to scrutinise the plans, and we have got to | :32:49. | :32:53. | |
scrutinise what are going on at the Games, too. It would be bizarre if | :32:53. | :32:58. | |
we didn't go and see what is going on. You have responded to your | :32:58. | :33:04. | |
critics, let's get on to the most important talking point. Edward | :33:04. | :33:07. | |
McMillan-Scott, polls show that the majority of the public are in | :33:07. | :33:10. | |
favour of the restoration of capital punishment. Should the | :33:10. | :33:14. | |
House of Commons vote on this? There has been a tendency for the | :33:14. | :33:21. | |
public to take a tough view on this. Whether repetition -- where a | :33:21. | :33:28. | |
petition was raised, I didn't get more than 50,000 signatures, | :33:28. | :33:31. | |
requiring 100,000 for a debate in the Commons. There's a general | :33:31. | :33:37. | |
feeling that those concerns tougher just as is needed was in fact | :33:37. | :33:46. | |
because we're in the European Union, the idea is not possible. Find out | :33:46. | :33:53. | |
what happens when Philip Davies heads to the death-row, but, first, | :33:53. | :33:56. | |
the last man sentenced to death in an English court came from | :33:56. | :33:59. | |
Scarborough? David Chapman escaped the hangman's noose after capital | :33:59. | :34:02. | |
punishment was outlawed in 1965. Almost half a century later, the | :34:02. | :34:12. | |
:34:12. | :34:13. | ||
subject still prompts a fierce Scarborough, for millions of | :34:13. | :34:17. | |
northerners, a place of happy memories, especially for those | :34:17. | :34:21. | |
families drawn to its two outdoor pools, both are now long since | :34:21. | :34:26. | |
demolished, but this one, the North Bay pool was the unlikely scene of | :34:26. | :34:32. | |
what became a piece of kiss and darker national history. | :34:32. | :34:36. | |
In the summer of 1965, shocked readers of the Scarborough Evening | :34:37. | :34:40. | |
News heard they had been a murder. In the early hours, a night | :34:41. | :34:44. | |
watchman at the North Bay pool had been deliberately drowned as he | :34:44. | :34:50. | |
tried to stop would-be burglars. By late autumn, the paper was | :34:50. | :34:56. | |
reporting from the trial of David Chapman. On 1st November, 1965, he | :34:56. | :35:01. | |
was found guilty of what the judge called a callous and brutal murder. | :35:01. | :35:06. | |
He was sentenced to hang, the last time that sentence would be passed | :35:06. | :35:12. | |
in any English court. Chapman didn't how ring. Within days of his | :35:12. | :35:18. | |
sentence being handed down, Parliament temporarily at least | :35:18. | :35:22. | |
abolished capital punishment. His sentence was commuted to life | :35:22. | :35:28. | |
imprisonment. He was released on licence in 1979. A couple of years | :35:28. | :35:34. | |
later, he died in a car crash. The case joined a long list already | :35:34. | :35:39. | |
highlighted in the often bitter arguments on capital punishment, | :35:39. | :35:45. | |
right up until MPs voted for permanent abolition in 1979. It is | :35:45. | :35:50. | |
still going on. This week, BBC Radio Leeds broadcast a debate on | :35:50. | :35:54. | |
crime and justice, attending the son of the first victim of the | :35:54. | :35:57. | |
Yorkshire Ripper and the father whose daughter was strangled by a | :35:57. | :36:02. | |
violently abusive partner. If you take my life, I would expect | :36:02. | :36:11. | |
somebody to take your. Life means a life sentence, but I don't believe | :36:11. | :36:16. | |
that that it should mean capital punishment. There are over 30 e- | :36:16. | :36:21. | |
petitions calling for more parliamentary debate. Opinion polls | :36:22. | :36:24. | |
suggest people want capital punishment. Hanging may be gone but | :36:24. | :36:27. | |
it is not forgotten. Len Tingle reporting there. So | :36:27. | :36:30. | |
let's find out what happened when Philip Davies visited a prison in | :36:30. | :36:34. | |
Florida where the death penalty is carried out. | :36:34. | :36:37. | |
As part of BBC Radio Leeds' Crime and Justice week, video journalist | :36:37. | :36:40. | |
Spencer Stokes followed the Shipley MP to discover whether his view | :36:40. | :36:43. | |
would change when confronted by the harsh reality of state-condoned | :36:43. | :36:53. | |
:36:53. | :36:59. | ||
440 men on death row. Inmates convicted of terrible crimes | :36:59. | :37:05. | |
waiting to be executed. Long, legal battles to avoid the legal -- | :37:05. | :37:11. | |
lethal injection. This is just as, Florida style, and it is a system | :37:11. | :37:15. | |
that fascinates Philip Davies, who has come to the USA to see if | :37:15. | :37:20. | |
examining the system at close- quarters work altered his famously | :37:20. | :37:24. | |
strident views. I am not aware of any MPs been to visit Death Row. I | :37:24. | :37:28. | |
don't tend to change my mind very often, but from speaking to people | :37:28. | :37:32. | |
who operate the system, you never know, I may go back and think, | :37:32. | :37:36. | |
actually, maybe it isn't the right idea. The death penalty was | :37:36. | :37:41. | |
reintroduced in Florida in 1976, and 73 people have been put to | :37:41. | :37:46. | |
death, two of them this year. The executions take place a few miles | :37:46. | :37:51. | |
from this town, where Philip is meeting the state representative. | :37:51. | :37:59. | |
Welcome to Florida. Nice to meet a like minded politicians. He is a | :37:59. | :38:03. | |
Republican who campaigns for the death penalty and he rejects the | :38:03. | :38:08. | |
argument that executions do little to cut crime rates. You can run the | :38:08. | :38:12. | |
statistics and say it doesn't deter it. I would rebut that by saying | :38:12. | :38:17. | |
that is because we have moved in a direction where his -- where it is | :38:17. | :38:20. | |
not an swift and sure. The reality and distance between their friends | :38:20. | :38:27. | |
and when it is carried out has been diluted. A constant stream of | :38:27. | :38:31. | |
trials, retrials and appeals have slowed the number of executions in | :38:31. | :38:35. | |
Florida, so now inmates are spending decades on death-row, and | :38:35. | :38:41. | |
some have been there in excess of 30 years. Philip Davis is about to | :38:41. | :38:46. | |
see the inner workings of the system. He is here to walk death- | :38:46. | :38:50. | |
row, see the execution chamber and meet the deathwatch, on the. I do | :38:50. | :38:54. | |
the right thing. I want to handle it with respect. It is a very | :38:54. | :39:02. | |
important job, and I want to do the best job I can. It makes it easier | :39:02. | :39:08. | |
for me to go home knowing I did the right thing. He believed -- you | :39:08. | :39:14. | |
begins his tour of the prison. Two hours later, his outlook remains | :39:14. | :39:18. | |
that same. I want to commend you on your prison regime which is what | :39:18. | :39:21. | |
the British public, if they could design it, this is what they would | :39:21. | :39:29. | |
design. For those with family inside, there is a different view | :39:29. | :39:37. | |
and after his visit to death-row, Philip means -- meets Rosalyn. Her | :39:37. | :39:41. | |
husband, a convicted double murderer, is facing execution at | :39:41. | :39:46. | |
Florida State prison. He needs to think before he opens his mouth. He | :39:46. | :39:52. | |
is just using the death penalty as some kind of platform for him to be | :39:52. | :39:58. | |
tough on crime. And that kind of thing. And it is disingenuous. I | :39:58. | :40:06. | |
think it's... It's terrible. believes her husband is innocent | :40:06. | :40:12. | |
and since 1976, 23 innocent men have been freed from death row. But | :40:12. | :40:16. | |
could an innocent man be executed? Florida's state attorney says it is | :40:17. | :40:23. | |
unlikely. Our burden of proof is proved beyond a reasonable doubt. | :40:23. | :40:26. | |
Some of my constituents don't agree with me and think the death penalty | :40:26. | :40:30. | |
should not be reintroduced. What could you say to them that might | :40:30. | :40:35. | |
persuade them otherwise? Why would we allow somebody to shoot and kill | :40:35. | :40:40. | |
someone who has bird arrived and might be trying to rape a woman | :40:40. | :40:46. | |
inside of a home? That is an act that can take alive, but the same | :40:46. | :40:53. | |
act, we say it is barbaric to take their life. Florida is proud of its | :40:53. | :40:57. | |
law enforcement and justice system. An electric chair that claimed the | :40:57. | :41:01. | |
lives of 440 death-row inmates takes pride of place in a state | :41:01. | :41:05. | |
museum. A chair in which Philip Kamara flecked. I feel remarkably | :41:05. | :41:08. | |
comfortable about sitting here. You think about the people that have | :41:08. | :41:12. | |
sat through here and what they must have been going through. We also | :41:12. | :41:17. | |
think about what we have to do and what those people have done to beat | :41:17. | :41:23. | |
in this chair. I feel remarkably... Cool and confident of this is | :41:23. | :41:26. | |
actually the right system of justice. I think my view has now | :41:26. | :41:31. | |
been reinforced and I am in favour of capital punishment. When the | :41:31. | :41:34. | |
backlash does come, it is not inconceivable that some day down | :41:35. | :41:39. | |
the line, the UK will decide to bring back the day of Panel two. | :41:39. | :41:43. | |
And I opening visit for Philip, but one that has not changed his mind. | :41:43. | :41:47. | |
He remains a strong supporter of the death penalty and has now of | :41:47. | :41:51. | |
the view that many voters at home would also favour Florida style | :41:51. | :41:58. | |
justice. So, the US experience didn't change | :41:58. | :42:03. | |
your view? It reinforced my view that the Americans are much tougher | :42:03. | :42:07. | |
on crime, the prison regime is tougher, the sentencing regime is | :42:07. | :42:12. | |
tougher. Even if you don't get the death penalty, you have a whole | :42:12. | :42:19. | |
life tariff without any parole. So, they have a much tougher approach. | :42:19. | :42:23. | |
I think that is what my constituents would like to see. I | :42:23. | :42:26. | |
am absolutely convinced they would like a much tougher sentencing | :42:26. | :42:31. | |
regime, as they do in Florida. Edward McMillan-Scott, do you agree | :42:31. | :42:41. | |
with his view.? If you look at the effectiveness of various sanctions, | :42:41. | :42:46. | |
it doesn't work. The number of murders has actually gone down by | :42:46. | :42:49. | |
27% when the death penalty was removed in Florida. Across the | :42:50. | :42:54. | |
world, where the death penalty exists, those countries have twice | :42:54. | :42:59. | |
the number of the murder rate. Leaving aside the morality of it, | :42:59. | :43:03. | |
it doesn't work. White even consider even introducing it. | :43:03. | :43:12. | |
you agree? No. You say it doesn't work. A man was convicted of murder, | :43:12. | :43:17. | |
was released, and then abducted and raped a boy in my constituency. If | :43:17. | :43:21. | |
the death penalty was in place, you would have been hanged and put to | :43:21. | :43:26. | |
death. He would not have been able to abduct and rape a 10-year-old | :43:26. | :43:30. | |
boy, so for him to say the death penalty does not work, for that | :43:30. | :43:33. | |
family in my constituency, it is palpable nonsense. It prevents | :43:33. | :43:37. | |
those people that have been released from prison going out and | :43:37. | :43:42. | |
committing more crimes and creating the victims of crime. When you look | :43:42. | :43:46. | |
at Ian Brady, rotting away in jail, us and they're part of you that | :43:46. | :43:52. | |
things, he should have swung away on a rope? He is in the right place, | :43:52. | :44:02. | |
:44:02. | :44:03. | ||
and it means a life sentence. I don't think... Let me give you the | :44:03. | :44:07. | |
specifics of the young Leeds man, been an army, went back to Pakistan, | :44:07. | :44:11. | |
and had a problem with a taxi driver. The gun went off, he was | :44:11. | :44:17. | |
put on death row and he remained there for years. Due to the | :44:17. | :44:20. | |
campaign run, he was released. Otherwise, he would have been | :44:20. | :44:28. | |
hanged. But would have been a gross miscarriage of justice. Ruth Ellis, | :44:28. | :44:33. | |
the anniversary of a hanging is this week. There was a serious | :44:33. | :44:37. | |
miscarriage of justice there. In the specifics, you can make a case | :44:37. | :44:40. | |
for something different, but the morality of the issue should be | :44:40. | :44:45. | |
considered. It is opposing the principles of the right to life. | :44:45. | :44:49. | |
And because it doesn't work, it is not effective as a deterrent. | :44:49. | :44:53. | |
Richard not be considered for the European Continent as a whole, and | :44:53. | :44:58. | |
the United Nations is running a campaign, which I support, to | :44:58. | :45:02. | |
abolish the death penalty wherever it exists. What about the argument | :45:02. | :45:07. | |
of the risk of miscarriage of justice? I understand that. That | :45:07. | :45:12. | |
isn't an objection to the death penalty in principle, that is the | :45:12. | :45:16. | |
right form of justice when people have committed terrible crimes. As | :45:16. | :45:20. | |
we have improvements in scientific evidence, the developments in DNA | :45:20. | :45:24. | |
and technology, the chances of it being the wrong person is much | :45:24. | :45:30. | |
lower than it was 30-40 years ago, and it seems to me as the each -- | :45:30. | :45:33. | |
the chance of the wrong person gets lower, the arguments are getting | :45:33. | :45:40. | |
stronger. What is the argument for capital punishment, apart from | :45:40. | :45:46. | |
vindictive justice? It is immoral to argue, as happens in Iran or | :45:46. | :45:50. | |
Afghanistan, where stoning is perfectly common, it is be steel, | :45:50. | :45:56. | |
and it should be discouraged. Up to encourage the idea that a | :45:56. | :45:59. | |
retributive system of justice should be introduced it is wholly | :45:59. | :46:03. | |
against the British national character. My view is that when | :46:03. | :46:08. | |
people take somebody's life away, the only appropriate form of | :46:08. | :46:15. | |
punishment is for them to suffer the same fate. A tooth for tooth? | :46:16. | :46:20. | |
When I was visiting death row in Florida, I see people in there with | :46:20. | :46:24. | |
their feet up, reading the paper, watching the TV without a care in | :46:24. | :46:30. | |
the world. They have got absolutely no problem with what they have done, | :46:30. | :46:33. | |
they don't feel guilty about what they have done, and I think there | :46:33. | :46:37. | |
is something wrong about people like Ian Brady sitting about, | :46:37. | :46:41. | |
reading the paper, watching TV in away their victims will never be | :46:41. | :46:47. | |
able to do that. It seems to me when these people have taken | :46:47. | :46:50. | |
someone's life away, I do not see where the punishment for that | :46:50. | :46:55. | |
should not be their life, too. People will always see prison as a | :46:55. | :46:59. | |
soft option, will they not? They have lost their liberty for ever. | :46:59. | :47:03. | |
That young man who was interviewed his mother was a victim said a life | :47:04. | :47:10. | |
means life. A Life for Life means that the criminal who is guilty of | :47:10. | :47:14. | |
what would have been a capital crime now loses his liberty for | :47:14. | :47:19. | |
life. That is what it means. doesn't mean life. If life meant | :47:19. | :47:24. | |
life genuinely without parole, peopled more -- people might accept | :47:24. | :47:29. | |
the current situation. We even saw the chap from Scarborough, he was | :47:29. | :47:36. | |
out within 14 years. It doesn't mean life. As the package made | :47:36. | :47:40. | |
clear, people have been wrongly convicted and released. The system | :47:40. | :47:48. | |
worked! They do have the death penalty and that system works. | :47:48. | :47:54. | |
Those people were released, let out of prison in a place where they do | :47:54. | :47:58. | |
have the death penalty for the because of those appeals, because | :47:58. | :48:04. | |
of the expensive process they have, it costs $23 million by a capital | :48:04. | :48:08. | |
case, as opposed to live in prison, which is more cheaper, and more | :48:08. | :48:13. | |
effective. It is always an emotive and fascinating debate, but we will | :48:13. | :48:17. | |
have to bring it to a close. Now, let's get some more of the | :48:17. | :48:20. | |
week's political news in our part of the world with our round-up in | :48:20. | :48:30. | |
:48:30. | :48:32. | ||
Reform of the House of Lords that the Westminster agenda this week. | :48:32. | :48:37. | |
The resulting Conservative rebellion saw one Lincolnshire MP | :48:37. | :48:40. | |
and coalition sceptics led to wreck. Why don't we vote against House of | :48:40. | :48:46. | |
Lords reform tomorrow and then we will and the sad Lant -- life of | :48:46. | :48:52. | |
this coalition. We will have a general election. Edward Leigh his | :48:52. | :48:55. | |
fellow Lincolnshire MP Nick Boles claimed that put off pensioners | :48:55. | :49:00. | |
need to play their part in clearing the deficit. He suggested the and | :49:00. | :49:04. | |
of universal benefits. Does anyone here think it would be responsible | :49:04. | :49:09. | |
to go on giving a free TV licence to Michael Rimmer? Free | :49:09. | :49:12. | |
prescriptions to Lord Sugar? And a winter fuel allowance to Paul | :49:12. | :49:18. | |
McCartney? And the debate on white air ambulances should have to pay | :49:18. | :49:22. | |
VAT on fuel could lead to the government paying their money back. | :49:22. | :49:26. | |
The Commons debate was triggered by motorbike enthusiast can shop from | :49:26. | :49:33. | |
York. -- Ken Sharp. A don't want to get into House of | :49:33. | :49:37. | |
Rules reform but Edward McMillan- Scott, after the rebellion, do you | :49:37. | :49:40. | |
think this is the beginning of the end for the coalition? Of course | :49:40. | :49:49. | |
not. It is a private coalition. When Philip Davies goes to the | :49:50. | :49:53. | |
United States, he should have been looking at the growth in the | :49:53. | :49:58. | |
American economy. That is what the coalition has about. We heard from | :49:58. | :50:01. | |
Edward Leigh from the Conservative Party suggesting any opportunity | :50:01. | :50:07. | |
you guys get, you should bring down the coalition. Do you agree? | :50:07. | :50:13. | |
should take each debate on its merit. I agree with Edward, the | :50:13. | :50:18. | |
coalition will last the five years, and then I hope we can have a | :50:18. | :50:23. | |
Conservative government in a majority so we can get rid of the | :50:23. | :50:26. | |
Human Rights Act, and these other things my constituents have been | :50:26. | :50:31. | |
crying out for. Huge tensions of issues like Europe between your | :50:31. | :50:36. | |
parties. Up to a point, but what you are seeing is, people are | :50:36. | :50:41. | |
expressing themselves volubly, and it is mostly problems for David | :50:41. | :50:44. | |
Cameron, his management of his party which has led to fisticuffs | :50:44. | :50:51. | |
this week. I will not ask you to defend David Cameron, but is it | :50:51. | :50:56. | |
inevitable you will see some referendum on our future in the UK? | :50:56. | :51:03. | |
Absolutely. A referendum is inevitable, and I hope that the | :51:03. | :51:06. | |
Conservative Party will not resist that for much longer. If David | :51:06. | :51:10. | |
Cameron gets ahead of the curve, he will get credit for that. | :51:10. | :51:15. | |
Liberals are not frightened of a referendum, but 3.5 million jobs in | :51:15. | :51:20. | |
this country depend on the European Union. That's rubbish... We will | :51:20. | :51:23. | |
come back in the autumn to continue this argument. | :51:23. | :51:28. | |
That's about it from us. In a moment, the Sunday Politics looks | :51:28. | :51:31. |