30/09/2012 Sunday Politics Yorkshire and Lincolnshire

Stay with us for the Sunday Pollux in the north as we find out why

Labour and the Tories at at loggerheads over taxpayers' money

Apology for the loss of subtitles for 2115 seconds

How low you are watching Sunday Politics for Yorkshire and

Lincolnshire. Who pays the unions do - should taxpayers pay for trade

unions. Does Labour still represent the Yorkshire vault that it there

at party Labour shouldn't Westminster? Our guests today

Angela Smith and Andrew Percy. Angela Smith, many activists will

be heading over the Pennines today. What message will they want to hear

from Ed Miliband? They will want to hear from Ed Miliband the kinds of

messages we're going to need to persuade the electorate to give us

that General Election victory in 2015. I am sure he can do that. We

have a significant lead in the polls, we need to develop the

confidence in the electorate that we can win that election and we

deserved to win that election. Andrew Percy, you are still behind

in the polls, are you sweating yet? A not yet. We are behind. I think

from our conference what our party will want is to seek what we will

be offering in the election that is different from the coalition. Maybe

some talk about how we separate ourselves from the Liberal

Democrats. I want to talk about the unions. The question we are asking

today is - should taxpayers' money be used to pay the wages of union

officials and or 10 balls? Conservative council leaders and

North Lincolnshire want to stop funding their authority's only

full-time union representative. They say the �50,000 budget would

be better spent elsewhere. But union officials are angry inkling

many council staff will not be properly represented in the

workplace. From then rented dinner ladies to

care workers, many council staff are members of a union. -- been

workers. In North Lincolnshire this man represents over 2000 staff. His

salary is paid from the local authority's budget. Council leaders

no longer believe his post is money well spent. I am the person who

know the policies and procedures inside out. I have been a big

believer in prevention rather than confrontation which is why we have

never had a big industrial problem in nearly 20 years. For me, it

seems to be anti-union, and in the industrial relations and an

ideological attack on trade unions. The Conservative-run authority here

says it is planning to take the 50,000 pound budget currently spend

on a full-time union convenor and reinvest it into 10 new

apprenticeship places for young people. We have good relationships

with their unions and I am sure that funding will come from

members' contributions. What you say to those who say this is a

politically motivated attack on the unions? I do not want to bring

unions enter politics like that. This is a unique opportunity for

our young people. I am very proud of what we're doing. You really

only have to ask the general public hear what they want and they will

say opportunity for jobs. Government itself last year said

that for every pound spent on trade union facilities and public bodies,

�3.90 pounds comes back in savings in terms of reduced absence lovers,

better industrial relations, fewer industrial tribunals. That is an

academic study commissioned by this Conservative Government. I've if it

is more complicated. Conservative Ministers say they

want to cut the number of taxpayer- funded union officials in our town

halls. But saying -- some say there attack is politically motivated.

Andrew Percy, this is your home patch. Is it right to scrap funding

for the unions? Absolutely. If you asked the electorate out there what

they want their money to be spent on, they will say they want jobs.

If we want is bound up money and providing jobs for young people and

that is what taxpayers' money expect the money to be spent on.

Sheffield City Council spent more than �500,000.18 full-time union

officials. Is that money well spent? What I l was found with

having these officers in place is like you were able to develop the

really good relationships necessary to avoid work plays illnesses,

reducing the number of workplace illnesses and so on. So it actually

saves money. That is the point made in the peace. For every pound spent

on a trade union official, you are saving between �3.90 pounds. What

taxpayers are expecting is an investor saved optioned to deliver

the efficiencies and the work for us that isn't always, you do not

get the tribunals, you do not get the almost Lovells, the appliances

-- illness levels, the tribunals. They have millions of pounds that

they go to the Labour Party. If it saves money and it is good for

workers, why do not -- the use -- why do they not used money to

provide jobs which is what we want to do. I think North Lincolnshire

will find that is a false efficiency. I think Andrew has

given the game away. We have seen an ideological attack by a local

Government on the ideas of the trade unions. They have been

supported by their friends in the local Democrats. The BBC itself

pays for full-time union officials, even the BBC does that. It is not

just local authorities. When the new director general sees the books,

he might change that. It is a false efficiency FA does that. -- if he

does that. At the end of the day, everybody expects our forced to

work co-operatively and to negotiate sensibly. There are

plenty of unions that get none. money invested by local authorities

is for the benefit of the local as our days as much of their

membership. That is why it is right the local authority should make a

contribution. This goes to a small number of unions in North

Lincolnshire. Her can Labour afford to stand up to the unions and the

current climate? You still get 90% of their funding from local -- from

trade unions, don't you? We want as sensible relationship with the

trade unions and that is why it is the same principle. We want a

sensible relationship with the trade unions in the same way that

we believe that local authorities and all good employers should have

a good relationship with the unions. It works and other countries like

Germany incredibly well. It is a false economy to suggest this is

money they could be saved and spent elsewhere. It will lead to more

expensive long run. Some Conservatives won even tougher

conditions. Do you support tougher anti-union legislation? I do not.

The balance our we are at the moment is probably correct. There

is an issue when there is a ballot and so many people voted.

Personally I do not think that is good to change. That would be seen

as too much of an attack and a step too far and we have to be

reasonable and except that there are a lot of people who choose not

to vote in a ballot. Where we are at the moment is a reasonable

balance. On this issue of taxpayers funding, we should move on that. I

think the current legislation is all right at the moment. It is

0.05% of local authority funding we're talking about here. It would

be better spent providing 10 jobs for young people. It would cost

�150,000 on more or in the measure you are bringing up. A Labour has

had a good year on the hall winning council seats and maintaining a

healthy opinion poll lead, there has been a large fly in Ed

Miliband's ointment in the form of George Galloway.

His victory in the Bradford West by-election raise questions about

there was still such a thing as a Labour heartland. Len Tingle has

been speaking to the Labour leader about the challenges that lie ahead.

If it is nearly six months since George Galloway took away the

Labour seat in Bradford West. Just four nonsense his Respect Party

ousted the then Labour leader of Bradford City Council and won five

seats of their own. So will Labour leader Ed Miliband used this week's

conference to rally his troops to rebound from those setbacks in one

of his party's traditional heartlands? This conference is not

about our troops. It is much more about the public. We want is away

want to rebuild -- Britain and our economy with practical ideas. 4th

how we can help her businesses grow in the future. There is a different

view from this professor. He is an expert and grassroots political

support and in the way the public sees politicians. It shows the

notion of core support, loyalists and says seats is changing and

British politics. You may have support in one area but getting a

boat out to vote for you are being able to rely on their rock-solid

supporters clearly changing. think there has been a problem in

getting the successes of the Labour council out into the public domain.

And I also think that Labour councils are also getting the blame

for cuts there being imposed on us by the coalition Government. But

what we're continuing to do is the hard work, learning the lessons

from earlier in the year. But that next message is not only come from

Bradford. 45 miles south is probably its strongest heartland

and has been since the 1930s. There is a town there were the party is

simply not getting entirely its own way. Three years ago the tiny party

English Democrats pushed Labour aside into the powerful post of

elected mayor of Doncaster and despite Labour campaigning this

year to have the post abolished altogether in a referendum the

public decided to keep it. There was a lot of issues that happened

in 2009, not least that Labour's power for 30 years, -- 13 years,

the MPs' expenses. They lost a lot of credibility as politicians are

at that time. We will be talking about how we can do other things

they can show that we are a Labour Party that is not just a London

party, we are no party across this country. It is true about the

Labour Party but it is important that we reject. I want to say at

this conference that we can make a difference. This conference and a

couple of by-elections later this month should put that to the test.

That was an interesting cloud there. He said voters are less likely to

vote on block any more. Do you fear they are Heartlands aren't always

going to be there? Away learn that lesson a long time ago. The dates -

- des when you could take votes for granted are long gone. That era has

gone now and it is never going to return. So Labour has to work hard

to win those votes. All I would say on this, frankly, is that all the

evidence says that the Labour Party has given up on South Yorkshire. It

is not representing the interests of the people of Yorkshire or in

Government and their washing our hands of us. David Cameron said

that there a day when the Tories do well in that area, hell will freeze

over. Have the Tories Wash Their hands of Yorkshire? I do not think

so. More people have voted for us. We had Labour loses a town in one

of their safest areas. They are struggling with their core vote.

And money coming through their -- Humber area, it is money coming

from central Government to Yorkshire. Why our labours saw

ahead in the polls? I think everything comes down to the

economy. Anybody in Government understands that. Certainly at the

moment the economy is not doing well for whatever reason and we

will be punished in the polls. If they economy comes right by the

General Election, logically then we will do better by then. There is

absolutely no doubt that the voters are looking carefully at how the

economy is looking. Borrowing this year is already up by a quarter on

what it was last year, despite Osborne's promise to reduce

borrowing by the next election. Price rises are higher than wages

and we're back in recession. We have one million young people on

the dole. That is why Labour, despite what you're saying, is

trying to build and people are beginning to back Labour again. We

do very well in the local elections, we have won back a number of local

councils including Wakefield. I think that the Tories and Liberal

Democrats have got to start thinking again and start listening

to voters. That is what we're doing, we are listening to voters and we

are determined to deliver a programme that the people want.

you look at all the polling about who would be the best Prime

Minister, the Labour leader does not score well. In terms of the

economy, in its me laugh when Labour say we are in a double dip

recession. Labour did not tell us when we were in the first recession

will stop although borrowing is high, it is a low mark than when

Labour were in office. There are two sets every -- argument.

Miliband's personal ratings are still below David Cameron. That has

to worry Cameron and his team and far as Nick has been concerned, he

has been lagging far a long time. I think in Miliband is providing

leadership that the party is looking for. -- Ed Miliband. He is

ahead of the game on a lot of their stories of interest lately, he has

always been a dead of the game. I think the electric know that and

they will support that. -- ahead of the game.

Now let's get some more of the week's political news and are part

of the world. Nick Morris has around up and 60 seconds.

Last year we highlighted the scandal of Yorkshire girls as young

as 12 being groomed, rate and forced into prostitution by

criminal gangs. This week more shocking revelations. This is an

absolute scandal in our midst and may have to be very firm and have a

public inquiry with us all brought into the open. Major floods, even a

stretch of the one under water. Rebecca Taylor says the EU can help

but it needs better planning. happened in 2007 is that the

Netherlands Len some palms. There was a delay because nobody worked

out how they could transport them. At the Liberal Democrat conference

this week, there were suggestions that business would move to the

North because it was cheaper to employ people. This was rejected.

I am not a big fan of it and I told the Chancellor that and the Prime

Minister that. I cannot go back to my constituents and say that

teachers should be paid less in Goole and not in Surrey. A public

inquiry into this problem of criminal gangs targeting young

girls - would you like to see a public inquiry? I do. We know this

is a serious issue. It is about time we stopped blaming the victims

when things like this happen. We have got to have a really deep

rooted -- de root-and-branch investigation into what went wrong

here. South Yorkshire Police, I have always had an excellent

relationship with South Yorkshire Police. I have always found them

keen to work with the community. But it clearly has questions to

answer here and I think a public inquiry is the only way to do that.

Anton lot until our programme last year, he said police and others

were hampered by political correctness because most of their

perpetrators were Asian gangs. Is that a problem that you feel needs

addressing? -- their children's Minister said to her programme.

need to be careful about talking about cultural issues. But we need

a public inquiry to bring all of this out into the open. I support a

100%. One of flooding, was there anything we could have done to have

been better prepared this week? Since 2007 we have seen the

Environment Agency take its approach -- changed its approach

quite rapidly. We have seen significant investment in trying to

deal with the problem at source, which in the case of water is

always the catchment area. We are all missing good investment in

improving water management so that we can absolutely reduce the risk

of flooding to the minimum. Whether or not or could be done, I wouldn't

like to say, because our area this time, thank goodness, was all right.

I think it will have a -- to be seen what the results of the

investigation bring about. Constituents are having problems

with insurance. As Angela said, you cannot guarantee that every area or

with flooding candy effectively disbursed. We're seeing more

extreme weather. The Environment Agency have had its funding cut

considerably. That is a real risk be in terms of dealing with issues.

We have to leave it there. That's about it from the Sunday