03/11/2013 Sunday Politics Yorkshire and Lincolnshire

Morning, folks. Welcome to the Sunday Politics. It began as

Plebgate, now it is Plodgate. The evidence of three police officers to

MPs is branded a great work of fiction. They tried to intimidate

the Grangemouth bosses, but in the end it was the union that

McCluskey about Unite union's strong McCluskey about Unite union's strong

arm tactics at Grangemouth and Falkirk. They preach women should be

sidelined and confined to the private sphere. They argued they

should be covered up. On the Sunday politics in Yorkshire

and Lincolnshire we ask how the government should prepare for a

changing climate amid claims we are facing a mini ice age.

GPS tracking system to keep tabs on its staff.

With me as always, the best and the brightest political panel, Helen

Lewis, Janan Ganesh and Nick Watt who will be tweeting their

humiliating climb-down is what they got wrong last week in the

programme. If this can happen it to a Cabinet minister, what hope is

there for anyone else? Thus the Home Affairs Select Committee concluded

what many already thought about the treatment of Andrew Mitchell by

three self-styled PC plebs. They met him to clear the air over what did

or did not happen when he was prevented from ramming his bike

through the Downing Street gates. But the officers gave the media and

inaccurate account of that meeting. Two of them are even accused of

misleading the Commons committee. The Independent Police Complaints

Commission will now reopen there enquiry. This is not a story about

Andrew Mitchell, it is about the police. Keith Vaz is often in high

dudgeon and this is the highest dad and I have seen him in for some

time. They could be held for contempt of Parliament and

technically they could be sent to prison. It has blown up into an

enormous story. I do not know what is worse, the police trying to

stitch up a Cabinet member and try to mislead the media or the

incompetence they have done it from day one. That is quite good. I would

sleep more soundly at night if I knew the pleas were good at this. It

is the incompetence that shocks me. And this is just a sideshow. We are

still waiting on the main report as to what exactly happened outside

Downing Street gates. But that not will be good for the police either.

The file has gone from the Metropolitan police to the CPS, so

we are limited about what we can say. This is about the police

Federation. They were set up under statute in 1990 as a deal in which a

police would not go on strike. This is a political campaign to get a

Cabinet minister out and the legacy of this is the police Federation

will have to be reformed. We will keep an eye on it. They were Ed

Miliband's union backers, they swung the Labour leadership for him in

2010. Now the Unite union looks like his biggest headache. The Sunday

Times has seen extracts of the report into the alleged vote rigging

to select a Labour candidate in Falkirk. There was evidence of

coercion and Gregory as well as deliberate attempt to frustrate the

enquiry. We will be speaking to Len McCluskey, the Unite union's General

Secretary, in a moment. First out the saga began an almost ended up

with the loss of 800 jobs at a petrochemical plant in Grangemouth.

Unite were key players in the Grangemouth dispute and the union

headed by Len McCluskey has come under fire for its intimidator Tariq

tactics. In one instance demonstrators complete with an

inflatable rat picketed the home of a INEOS director. The police were

called. It was part of a strategy the union called leverage. But

turning up at people's houses seems to represent an escalation. At the

centre of the rout was Steve in deals -- Stephen Denes. INEOS

launched an investigation into him as he was suspected of using company

time to engineer the selection of labour's candidate in Falkirk. That

candidate was Karie Murphy, a friend of Len McCluskey. Stevie Deans

resigned last week and denies any wrongdoing, but it capped a dramatic

climb-down by Unite union. Len McCluskey joins me now. Thanks to

the Sunday Times we now know what is in this labour report on the Falkirk

vote rigging. Forgery, coercion trickery, manipulation. You must be

ashamed of how Unite union behaved in Falkirk. The Sunday Times article

is lazy journalism. There is nothing new in the article. This was all

dealt with by the Labour Party in the summer. We rejected those

allegations then and we said we had done nothing wrong and both the

Labour Party and the police in Scotland indicated there had been no

wrongdoing. The report itself says you were trying to thwart the

investigation. First you tried to fix the selection of a candidate to

get your woman in and then you thwarted the investigation into the

dirty deeds. The reality is the Labour Party report was deeply

flawed. The Labour Party then instructed a solicitor, a lawyer, to

do an in-depth investigation and during that investigation they got

to the bottom of what had happened and they decided there was no

wrongdoing whatsoever. At the time I was so confident we had done

nothing, I called for an independent enquiry. They were forced to

conclude there was no wrongdoing because the people who originally

complained changed their evidence and we now know they did so because

Unite union officials helped them to rewrite their retraction and Stevie

Deans approved it. That is not true. We have had 1000 e-mails thrown into

the public arena and what is that all about? Who is leaking this? They

showed the Unite union was rewriting the retractions. This interview

would go a lot better if you are allowed me to finish the question

that you asked. These e-mails were put into the public arena by the PR

company from INEOS. Why are they doing this? The truth of the matter

is that all of the investigations that took place demonstrate there

was nothing to answer. This idea that the Unite union has rewritten

and the evidence from the families has been withdrawn, the families are

a part of Stevie deems' family. They clarified the position. Do you deny

that union officials were involved in the retractions? I deny it

completely. This is important. Independent solicitors to witness

statements from the family and they are the ones that were influencing

the Labour Party with the position is clarified and there is no case to

answer. Do you deny Stevie deems saw their retractions? It is his family.

So you do not deny it? It is his family. This is an ordinary, decent

family who were faced with the full weight of the pleas, a forensic

solicitor. Of course they spoke to Stevie Deans. This whole thing is a

cesspit. Does it not need an independent investigation? This is a

trap being laid by Tory Central office. They are making all the

demands. The media, the Daily Mail, the Sunday Times, the Conservative

mouthpiece, they are laying tracks for Ed Miliband and Ed Miliband

should not fall into them. Since when did it become part of an

industrial dispute to send mobs to the home of company families. This

is a legitimate form of protest and it is a silent protest. We believe

if faceless directors are making decisions that cripple communities,

they cannot expect to simply drift back to their own leafy suburbia and

not be countable. This is silent protest. It is lawful. It may be

silent in Grangemouth, but it was not silent elsewhere. You went with

a giant rat, loud-hailers telling everybody the neighbour was evil.

No, we did not. You had loud-hailers, you even encouraged

passing children in Grangemouth to join in. That is nonsense. Look at

the rat. The reality is the Grangemouth community was going to

be decimated, Grangemouth was going to become a ghost town. I reject

totally this idea there were loud-hailers and children involved.

That is a lie perpetrated by the Daily Mail. But you have used these

tactics in other disputes. We have used the tactics in other disputes,

but we have not used loud-hailers at people's homes. Because the labour

laws are so restrictive we have to look at every available means that

we can protest. It is an outrage, an absolute outrage, that this is

happening to British workers in the 21st-century. It could not happen

elsewhere. Is not intimidation the wider hallmark of your union? You

were quoted as saying to do whatever it takes during your attempts to

take over the Labour Falkirk constituency. You were instructing

to dig out the nasty stuff on your opponents. That is not true. Let's

see these e-mails? This is a con trick. Nobody is looking to dig

out... This is the words of your legal services advisor. Unite has

tried to instigate a revival of trade union values within the Labour

Party. That is what Ed Miliband wanted us to do. As soon as we

started to be in any way ineffective, there were screams and

howls of derision. When the company started to investigate Stevie Deans,

your friend, your campaign manager, that he was using company time to

moonlight on the job, you called INEOS and said unless you stop the

investigation we will bring Grangemouth to a standstill. I never

said that at all. You brought it to a standstill. We never brought it to

a standstill, the company did. Who says that I said that we would bring

it to a standstill? You have read it in the newspapers. You should not

believe everything. I did not make that threat to the management. You

carried the threat out. You instigated an overtime ban and a

work to rule. And that is what Grangemouth to a standstill because

the company decided to close the petrochemical site down. Because

Stevie Deans was suspended due introduced industrial action? Our

members in Grangemouth felt he was being unfairly treated. In the end

you're grandstanding almost cost Scotland is most important

industrial facility. The day was saved by your total capitulation.

Grandstanding, capitulation and humiliation are grand phrases. There

is nothing about capitulation. Len McCluskey did not wake up one day

and decide to have a dispute with INEOS. The workers in that factory

democratically elect their shop stewards to represent them and to

express to management their concerns and their views. That is what

happened with INEOS. Jack Straw has condemned your union's handling of

Grangemouth as a catastrophe. Have you considered your position? Jack

Straw and others in the Labour Party, you have to ask them what

their agenda is. I am not interested in what he says. The truth of the

matter is we responded to the requirements and needs of our

members. At a mass meeting last Monday 100% supported their shop

stewards and their union. We will continue to stand shoulder to

shoulder with our members when they are faced with difficult situations.

You have lost all the union rights. You have had to agree to a no strike

rule, you have lost pension rights. We have not lost rights at all, we

are still working with the company to implement its survival plan. The

Prime Minister is always attacking unions and just lately he has taken

to praising the automotive industry. Jaguar Land Rover,

Foxhall, BMW at Cowley, they are all Unite union members were the shop

stewards are engaged positively to implement survival plans and to make

a success for the company. That is what we do, but by the same token we

stand shoulder to shoulder with our members who are in struggle and we

will always do that and we will not be cowed by media attacks on us Is

your leadership not proving to be as disastrous for the members as Arthur

Scargill was for the NUM? My membership is growing. I am

accountable to my members, two are executive, and the one thing they

will know is that when they want me standing shoulder to shoulder with

them when they have a problem, I will be there, despite the

disgraceful attacks launched on us by the media.

"A country ready to welcome your investment which values your

friendship and will never exclude anyone because of their race,

religion, colour or creed." The words of the Prime minister at the

World Islamic Economic Forum which was hosted for the first time in

London this week. The PM's warm words are sure to be welcomed by

British Muslims who have endured a spate of negative headlines. There's

been the controversy over the wearing of the veil, attitudes to

women, and the radicalisation of some young British Muslims. In a

moment I'll be talking to the Secretary General of the Muslim

Council of Britain, Farooq Murad. First - here's Giles Dilnot. The

call to Friday prayers at the east London Mosque which has strong links

with the Muslim Council of Britain, one of the more vocal groups amongst

British Muslims. Despite the fact it frequently happens, it is neither

helpful nor accurate to describe the British Muslim community. There are

so many different sects, traditions, cultures and

nationalities, it is more accurate to describe the British Muslim

communities, but there is one question being put to them - are

they doing enough internally to address some challenging issues Are

they willing to confront radicalisation, attitudes to

non-muslins, two women, and cases of sexual exploitation in a meaningful

way? A number of them say no, not nearly enough. This former jihad de

has spent ten years telling young Muslim teenagers how they can reject

extremist radicalisation, using Outward Bound courses and community

work, but he and others doing this work thing -- think some elders are

failing the youngsters. This has been going on for decades, one

figures -- thing is said in public to please people but in private

something very different is being said and the messages are being

confused. Some of the young people, it pushes them further into a space

where they are vulnerable for radical recruiters. For many Muslim

youngsters, life is about living 1's faith within an increasingly secular

society, a struggle not helped if rigid interpretations of the Koran

are being preached, say some sectors. Some practices often don't

make sense in 21st-century Britain, and you are perhaps creating

obstacles if you stick to those and it is perhaps better to let go of

those cultural problems, especially when they need to clear injustices

like forced marriage, reticence to talk about grooming for example or

discrimination against women. There is a long list but I am very clear

that in fact the bad Muslim is the one who sticks to unflinching,

narrow dogmatic fundamentalist perception of religion. One issue

often focused on is the wearing of minicab. Polling suggests 80% of

Britons would favour a ban in public places. -- the niqab. Many people

don't seem to recognise the legacy of the niqab. Many people preach

that women should be sidelined and that they are sexual objects that

should be covered up and the preservation of morality falls on

their shoulders. The Muslim Council of Britain recently got praise for

holding a conference on combating sexual exploitation. In the wake of

abuse cases that had involved predominantly Pakistani men. For one

man who has followed the story for some years, the Muslim Council of

Britain needs to do much more. We need to get along together and if

things like attitudes towards the normal slim girl in stark contrast

to the expression of honour and chastity of the Muslim girl, your

sister or daughter, are such that actions that would be an fought off

with a slim girl becomes permissible with a white girl, then we are all

in trouble. To some, attitudes to women are not limited to sexual

interactions at the very structures of life in Muslim communities and

indeed the Muslim Council of Britain itself. I would like to ask the

Muslim Council of Britain what they are doing about the fact that very

few mosques give voices to are doing about the fact that very

the fact that someone women are experiencing female genital

mutilation and forced marriages what about the women who are getting

married and their marriages are not being registered and they are being

left homeless and denied maintenance rights, what about the fact there

are sharia rights that have been found to be discriminating against

women, and the fact there are men in this country who continue to hold

misogynistic views about women, what are you doing? The occasional press

release will not solve this problem of a deeply patriarchal community.

That all of these issues can be exploited to the point of Islam

phobia is not doubted, but many Muslims feel that unless the

communities do tackle this openly, a big cultural gap will exist between

the two. And the Secretary General of the

Muslim Council of Britain, Farooq Murad, joins me now. One visible

sign that sets muslins aside is the veils that cover women's faces. Do

you think it makes them impossible to be part of mainstream society?

The niqab is not an obligatory requirement. But do you accept that

those who wear it are cutting themselves off from mainstream

society? Some people do, and whilst wearing niqab, some of them are

working in various walks of life successfully and it is seen as a

faith requirement, but it is a red herring in the sense that it applies

to such a small number of Muslim girls. For many Muslim preachers,

isn't separation precisely the point of the niqab? Certainly not, if you

look at the Muslim women in the public sphere, we have many very

successful women. But not the ones who are veiled. Not in the public

arena as such, but the veil is a practice which is practised by a

very small number. Do you favour it? I personally think it is not a

requirement. But do you think women should wear the veil? I think it is

wrong to force women to wear the veil. I asked if in your opinion

women should wear the veil? It is important not to force women to wear

the veil. Should they of their free choice where the veil? A lot of

individuals do things out of their free choice which I do not approve

of, I don't think it is conducive it helps their cause, but I do not have

the right to take their choice away from them. I am still unsure if you

think it is a good thing or a bad thing. Are not many Muslim women in

this country being forced by Muslim preachers and often their male

relations who want to keep Muslim women their place? As I said, it is

wrong for anyone to force Muslim women. But how would we ever know in

a family if a woman was being forced? Exactly, we don't know what

is going on in people 's homes and what pressure is being applied. I

want you to look at this picture, very popular on Islamic websites,

and it shows the women who is wearing the niqab having a straight

route to heaven, and the other Muslim woman dressed in western gear

condemned to hell. Do you consider that a proper message for Muslim

women? Not at all, I don't. So any Islamic websites in Britain... The

Muslim Council of Britain is an organisation of five affiliates from

across the country and this is not coming from any of them. As I said,

those minority views propagated by individuals should not be used to

represent Muslim community. So that would not have the support of the

Muslim Council of Britain? It would not have the support. What about the

Muslim free school that requires children as young as 11 to wear a

black veil outside of school? Do you agree with that? I am not sure

exactly what the policy is... I have just told you, do you agree that

girls as young as 11 should wear a black burka outside of school? I

don't think it should be imposed on anybody. But this is the desired

dress School of the Muslim females. I am asking for your view. I said it

at the beginning that I do not think it should be imposed. Would you send

your daughter to a school that would wear a black burka at the age of 11?

Would you? No. It seems that some muslins are determined to segregate

young Muslim girls right from the start to very early from society. It

is not their segregation as such, I would say that there are faith

schools, if you look at an Islamic girls school in Blackburn in a

traditional setting, it has come the top of the league table this year in

the secondary school league tables. But it doesn't make 11-year-olds

wear black burkas. Many of those girls go on to have a successful

career. Not wearing black burkas. I am sure there are examples of women

who do have successful careers. There is a very conservative

movement from the continent on Islam, and the issue supposedly

based on Islamic law on their website. Here is one of their recent

judgements. The female is encouraged to remain within the confines of her

home as much as possible, she should not come out of the home without

need and necessity. What do you think of that? We need to say the

whole context of that quote. They are saying they should stay at home

as much as possible, do you agree with that? I see many Muslim women

who are walking about... But this is what the mosque is recommending

women should do. The practice is quite the contrary. Let me show you

another one. Another Fatwa. Do you agree with that? These have been

picked out from material dating back to different cultural settings and

in practice they are not applied. This is advice being given as we

speak. This is not being practised. Do you agree with it? No, not at

all. These are from the DL Monday mosques, how come 72 of these

mosques are affiliated to your counsel? There may be publications

from one of their scholars, but they have been written in countries

abroad and translated. This is advice being given to young women

now. They are affiliated to the Muslim Council of Britain. Do you

ever speak to them about that? The Muslim Council is a very broad

organisation. We are working on lots of common issues to create a

community which positively integrates. Did you ever speak to

them to say this is not appropriate for British Muslims? There may be

certain ad buys and publications available, but people make their

choices. So it is OK for your organisation to issue things like

that? Many of these things will fall under scrutiny and we need to create

that. Why do only 26% of British mosques have facilities for women?

If you go back to the requirement of prayer, it was not obligatory for

women to come to the masks to prayer. When a poorer community

began putting up mosques at the very beginning in terraced houses... Did

you have a policy to encourage them? Is it on your website? It is in our

practices that 20% of the council have to be female. Coming out of

this movement there is a conscious stream of superiority between

Muslims and non-Muslims. Look at this quote. He is a well-known

picture in this country. That is what he wants to stop. I

disagree with that. We believe we live in this society and Muslims in

any society of the world, and they have historically lived as

minorities in many countries... You would this associate yourself from

that? Why do you allow people like that to be affiliated to you? The

requirement is for any organisation to be affiliated is that they are

bound by the Charity commission's rules and regulations. We only

accept those who are under the law of this country. This is a matter of

taste. Let me move on to a bigger issue. In 2009 you signed the

Istanbul dash-mac the Istanbul declaration was signed. Do you still

support it? No, we never signed it or supported it. One of your leading

lights signed it. In the media mainstream he defended his position.

You have this associated yourself from it? What is wrong with that? I

am not sure about the declaration because we disassociated ourselves.

Before reading it? We did not sign it. You have not read it? I do not

know all the aspects of the declaration, but at the time in the

national newspapers and media there was a discussion and a debate and it

was highlighted that that was not what was meant by the declaration.

When did you decide so is the yourself from the declaration? From

day one. We never signed it. The East London Mosque which you are

personally closely associated with is the venue for a number of

extremist speakers, who espoused extremist positions. In 2009 the

mosque posted a video and presentation by somebody described

by the UN Security Council as an Al-Qaeda leader supporter. Another

speaker described Christians and Jews as Phil. You have had a jihad

is supporter of the Taliban there. Why do you do nothing to stop

extremists like that at this mask with which you are associated with?

We do not have anything to do with any rhetoric that condones or

supported violence. We issue guidelines and the mosque itself is

a registered charity which has its own rules and regulations, but it is

a very large mosques and lots of organisations book and come and told

their gatherings. We rent out the facilities. You were prepared to

speak alongside a man who saluted suicide bombers, and said 9/11 was a

Zionist conspiracy. Why would you share a platform like that? I did

not share a platform like that. Different organisations come and

have conferences here. Why did you agree? I did not agree with that. I

completely reject that. When you add all this up the attitude to women,

the alliance with the most fundamentalist Islamic mosques, the

toleration of intolerant views, a willingness for you to be counted

among them, why should anybody of goodwill, either a Muslim or a

non-Muslim, regard the MCB as a good force? It is an organisation which

embraces different organisations which are affiliated in the Muslim

community. You have taken snippets of certain individual views which

are not the views of our affiliates. It would be unfair to represent our

view based on those which you have highlighted in this programme. The

work that we do is quite clear and is on our website. They are all

associated with you, but we will have to leave it there. You are

watching the Sunday Politics. Coming up: I will be talking to joke

You are watching the Sunday politics for Yorkshire and Lincolnshire.

Coming up today, we ask how the government should prepare for a

changing climate amid claims we are facing a mini ice age. Legendary TV

weatherman John kept the offers his view. Kettley. And we ask what role

a global military base played in the US buying row. And let's say hello

to our guests, Karl Turner is an MP. And Julian Smith. Here we are

between Halloween and bonfire night. Which ghoulishly go gives you bumps

in the night? Who would like `` you would like to see on the bonfire? I

am lighting the Ripon bonfire and I hope it is not going to be me. Any

chance? Many possibilities. I am taking care ex`Mac `` excavation

mark I am spoiled the choice. I think the entire coalition

government. I would have to pick Nick Clegg. Tory and Labour MPs

would agree that the Lib Dems are the worst. It is the only way we can

afford to keep warm at the moment, gathering around a fire. Is it about

time we found out what goes on at a controversial military base, which

is situated on Yorkshire soil but run primarily by the Americans. For

decades, there has been speculation about the nature of the

intelligence`gathering carried out at RAF Menwith Hill near Harrogate.

In a special report for the Sunday Politics in Yorkshire and

Lincolnshire, the director of Big Brother Watch, Nick Pickles, tells

us why his organisation is taking legal action to lift the lid on the

secretive world of surveillance. Tapping the German Chancellor's

Mobile looks like the final straw even for American politicians, and

the men and women running the base in this Yorkshire are now more like

lead to face closer questioning. RAF Menwith Hill, run by the National

Security agency of America, is one of the biggest surveillance the

Sillett is in Europe. It has satellite and electronic signals and

Private intervals `` and for many years foreign governments and the

European Parliament have been denied meaningful information about what

goes on behind these fences. And yet the iconic golf balls have a part of

the Yorkshire skyline for decades. And with revelations of Edward

Snowden illuminating the scale of surveillance undertaken by Britain

and America, including surveillance of allies and world leaders, the did

date around the world is if the surveillance is fit for purpose. And

I think it is worrying we do not have the same debate in written. It

is intolerable that German law has been broken in this way. It is no

surprise that world leaders have their communications intercept test

and that RAF Menwith Hill plays a part in the agency infrastructure. I

have been part of the intelligence business the 50 years. Leadership

intentions, it is a basic tenet of what we collect and analyse. The

role the base plays is far from clear, but we know that data

gathered is a large part of the agency's work. What happens when

mass surveillance for a foreign government takes lace in Britain?

The organisation of which I am director is taking legal action

through the European Court of human rights on the basis that

infringements of the CBN carried out around the world are neither

necessary or proportionate in a free State and the laws passed by

Parliament to govern this surveillance are not fit for

purpose. For decades, the American government has kept details of what

goes on here secret. Part of the legal action will involve shining a

spotlight on to these bases to ask what goes on there. How much

information is being collected? And when did we as Britain ever give

permission for so much data to be collected about us, every day? That

was Nick Pickles from Big Brother Watch. Julian Smith, you are the MP

that covers the area of the military base. Do we need to know what is

happening? It is in my constituency. This idea that the law does not

allow it to be analysed is completely wrong. We have

ministerial oversight and Parliamentary oversight and we have

judicial commissioners who check on ministerial decisions around our

intelligence services, and the select committee has just been given

new powers to ask any question of the intelligence services, including

to go in and ask questions at RAF Menwith Hill will stop why did the

public who live there not know what goes on there? I looked at the

website before the programme and it states that the intelligence of that

committee and Parliament has oversight and that base has been

part of the legal framework for many years. Did you know that world

leaders, including the Russian president, have hacked their

telephones tapped from RAF Menwith Hill? It is not my is nice to be

involved in the intelligence services but my job is to make sure

the laws are in place. And those laws are very tight. It is wrong to

tell the public they are not. Is there a danger that we are

sleepwalking into a surveillance state? I agree with what Julian has

said. We have always had intelligence gathering and sharing

of information between the US and UK. It must be done in a legal

framework and be necessary and authorised. I am told on reasonable

authority that those factors are present. You called for the Guardian

newspaper to be prosecuted for publishing the leaks from Edward

Snowden. The Guardian is a good newspaper. It is right to report on

these leaks. In the detail of those reports, it went to a depth that has

threatened national security and I believe that by sending those

files, particularly those they admitted sending overseas, they have

potentially broken the law, that is not for me to decide, but they have

risked national security. That is my complaint, the way they have dealt

with this reporting. Some people talked about it being the worst leak

of intelligence for decades. You would feel the same if they were

published by the Daily Mail newspaper? Did the Telegraph reach

security when it published MPs expenses? The God `` the Guardian is

a good newspaper but I think they have gone too far. I think many

people inside the Guardian feel the same according to intelligence I

have. I think that Julian is alleging a reach of national

security and criminality, actually, and I do not know whether it is

wrong. I am right to say he was parading on the terrace of the House

of Commons with more than 40 employees from RAF Menwith Hill. You

have to be careful here. In one newspaper it said you published a

picture on your Facebook site. They asked me to have a photograph, they

were pleased to be in the photograph. I think it is called a

red herring! Every year, there is a debate about how much salt our local

councils have to grit the road with. But how would we cope we enter a

mini ice`age, with much harsher winters over the coming years? If

some scientists are to be believed, ministers should be rethinking our

future energy policy with claims there could even be a lack of wind

to power those controversial wind turbines. The stormy scenes at the

beginning of the week were a stark reminder of disruption that can be

caused by extreme weather conditions. But according to one

scientist, we should prepare for a different kind of climate challenge.

It is claimed harsh winters like the big freeze of 1963 could become more

common, due to a decline in solar act liberty. `` solar activity. We

might need more snowploughs and power stations to meet energy

demands. These things big, more sensible and economic to do, if you

are going to face many more cold winters. Professor Lockwood's

research has been seized upon by those against wind farms, who claim

his prediction of cold Siberian winters will see a reduction in

milder air coming in off the Atlantic, in other words, less wind.

Melvin Grosvenor led a campaign that blocked a development of eight giant

wind turbines on the Ed `` in Lincolnshire. He supports other

communities where there is opposition to new wind farms. If the

wind is not blowing, we know, as from the winter in 2011, there was

little wind, and no energy produced from wind turbines. If we go down

this route, we will have no energy and blackouts and peep will suffer

the impact on landscape `` people will suffer. Is it about science, or

you saying you do not want them on the landscape? It is a mixed issue.

People will be able to cope with and accept a project if they feel that

it will create... Solve the problem of potentially changing climate. But

if you have the wrong technology, doing the wrong thing, there is a

huge problem. With differing opinion on how to manage the future energy

needs, I sought advice from a familiar face. If you were a

government minister, how would you plan for future energy needs? I

would think what is it all about? We have had conflict in evidence for 20

years. There will always be wind, we are an island and we get windy

weather, but there is always the chance of the North West UK being

more windy down here. Farmers have been encouraged, and rightly so, if

it grows warmer, to grow maize, which has been taken on board by

several farmers in Lincolnshire in particular, which is a good thing,

because you can produce fuel from maize, which is a good idea for

them. It costs a lot to run a farm. The diesel. Mays needs warmer

weather. If it turned colder, that would be a waste of time. `` the

crop maize. We will use renewable energy and more of them. It is a

wonderful thing. I am a great fan of renewable energy. The other stuff

will run out. We have to go for alternatives. It might be nuclear,

but certainly diesel Turner tits have a place in society. Whatever

happens `` diesel alternatives. We are still going to need renewable

energy. Whether we are facing a mini ice age or not, one thing that is

unlikely to freeze in the future is household energy bills. It is great

to see a television legend. We could not afford Michael Fish excavation

mark we have been told the years that the climate change will create

a Mediterranean climate, now it is said to be an ice age. Who do you

believe? There is plenty of wind off the humbug, and we are desperate for

the investment to grow the economy `` in the Humberside region. Do

something about the big energy companies and freeze bills and

regulate the industry properly so that people will can afford to pay

their bills. People will die this winter as a result of being cold.

People will say that the cost of the bills are due to the former Labour

minister, Ed Miliband. People will say the green taxes were put on by

David Cameron. Those put on by Ed Miliband when he was Secretary of

State were supported I David Cameron when he was in opposition. The

Tories need to be careful. They are trying to have a review to kick this

into the long grass. David Cameron is doing the bidding for the big six

energy companies. People in my constituency, his constituency, and

Julian's constituency, will die this winter as a result of not being able

to afford to put the heating on. It is important not to exaggerate.

Using words about death and some of those comments, it is

scaremongering. But it is a big problem. For your viewers, I would

reassure them that whether it is Yorkshire water, who pay no taxes

and have put up ills, whether it is the energy companies and the review

of green taxes, all of these areas of cost of living, there will be

progress. We have to do things that are sensible and not just headline

grabbing like price freezes which I don't think anybody believes will

work. We need to freeze energy bills to control the prices. In that

two`year period, we need to regulate the industry properly, to give the

regulator teeth and ensure that they do not keep on taking advantage of

people by increasing their energy bills. Do you access that is the

government is seen by many as not doing enough to stand up to the

energy companies? We are forcing energy companies to put people on

the lowest tariff in the energy bill. We are pushing forward with

annual competition reviews to make sure competition is better. On

water, there will be a gig announcement. We are having a debate

next week. Many MPs have been pushing on the behaviour of water

companies. `` big announcement. Action will be taken. The government

understands the cost of living is the number one issue at the moment.

It is no coincidence that the government, David Cameron armour is

saying what it `` what the big energy companies are saying. He is

doing the ending for them and whose side is the Prime Minister on? Is it

people struggling to pay bills, or the energy companies making aliens

of pounds in profit off the back of people who are struggling. Making a

decision whether to turn on the heating, or whether to eat some

food. It is disgusting. There is a bill in the House of Lords and the

government could act and lay down an amendment. And with the piers

supporting it and doing the same when it comes back to the House of

Commons. He chooses not to do that. I think there will be announcements

in the Autumn statement. Action is being taken. We need action now.

People will die, it is not scaremongering. To suggest people

will die because of cold weather, it is the truth. To reassure your

viewers... Let him answer. Cold weather payments and the benefits

for people suffering will remain and it is important to emphasise that

action will be taken on these issues. Now we can get more of the

political news with Len Tingle and a round`up in 60 seconds. The debate

of the week on upgrading the existing line to London or spend

billions building the high`speed rail link. A BBC survey of MPs and

council leaders revealed most in favour, with a strongly dissenting

minority, as demonstrated by a Sheffield MP and the Bradford

Council leader. It will be good news for Northern England and regions

like Sheffield. There may be better ways of spending ?52 billion. Is the

tentative economic recovery as firm as the government thinks? Ask the

workers in Scunthorpe who lost their jobs this week because of a downturn

in orders from the construction industry. And a travel guide put

Yorkshire as the third best place in the world to visit. Can we have a

debate to prove that even this, Yorkshire is not just the third, but

indeed is God 's own county? I do not think we need a debate on that.

Karl Turner, on high`speed rail, why is labour sending out mixed

messages? I do not think we are. We support it. We are not prepared to

write David Cameron a blank cheque. It seems costs are spiralling. It

started at her two 4 billion. We are now told it is ?52 billion. `` at 2

billion `` 34 billion. We are not prepared to sit back and watch the

government make mistakes. We need to make sure public money is well

spent. I think hearing that about the mantle prudence from Labour,

given the mess they left the country in is very rich indeed. The

high`speed rail project is right for the North and the country and I will

be backing it. I am confident that if we can get Labour to stick to one

decision, which is a yes decision, this country will have the link as

soon as possible. You have the leaders of some of the biggest

cities accusing Ed balls of dithering. I do not think he has

been dithering. We are not prepared to give David Cameron a blank

cheque. There was a vote in the House of Commons. There were very

few Labour MPs at that. Why were they not there to back it? More Tory

MPs boasted `` voted against it than Labour MPs yesterday. With respect,

it is pot, kettle and black. On the economy, we saw more than 300 steel

jobs lost in Scunthorpe. There is a long way to go before the area's

economy improves. We are turning a corner and the economy is healing. I

am confident from going around businesses and seeing the rate of

start`up businesses and 1.5 million jobs created since the last election

and high performing as this is in Yorkshire, that we are wrong the

right track, that does not eat it will not continue to be difficult.

We are out of the mess we were left in. I welcome any activity in the

current economy. If it is improving, I am glad about that. We are not

seeing it in my area with youth employment going up `` ease

unemployment going up. There is a cost of living crisis. `` youth

unemployment. Yorkshire, the third most popular place to come on

holiday. Where would you recommend people visit? Skipton and Ripon, the

best areas of Yorkshire to visit. Any advice people need, let me know.

It is a stunning constituency. We have the city culture did in and I

recommend the whole visit the city of Hull. It is fantastic. I am told

people are welcome in Barnsley as long as they do not put any rude

objects on the statue of the cricket umpire Dickie Bird.

you. Andrew, back to you. Labour 's relationship with Unite and other

issues all to be discussed in the Week Ahead and we're joined now by

the shadow business secretary Chuka Umunna. First I would like to get

your reaction to the interview I did earlier with the General Secretary

of the union Unite - Len McCluskey. Let's look at what he said. This is

a trap being laid by Tory Central office. They are making all of the

demands and the Daily Mail, the Sunday Times, are you telling me

they are not the conservative mouthpiece in the media? They are

laying traps for Ed Miliband and he should not fall into them. Though it

is all a Tory plot. Len McCluskey denies a lot of the allegations put,

but let me be clear in an industrial dispute, the use of aggressive or

intimidatory tactics by either side is totally unacceptable. Do you

think it is wrong for Unite to send its members to the homes of

managers? I don't know what happened in that particular case, but I think

you should keep people 's families out of these things and if you are

doing something that can upset particularly children, that is a bad

thing. I know he denied a number of things you put to him. We now know

some of the content of Labour 's own report into what happened at Falkirk

and they found all sorts of things - forgery, coercion, trickery and even

that their own investigation was being thwarted by Unite. What should

Labour do next? I have not read the report. We are told that the latest

allegations that have been made is something that the police are

looking into so that is not something I think would be

appropriate for me to comment on. We learned Labour Party members in the

Falkirk constituency have complained to the leader of the Scottish party

about a lack of action by the Labour Party on what happened in Falkirk. I

am not part of the Scottish party and that is news to me. But the

police have indicated they are looking at the new information that

has come to light. It is a bit like the 1980s and there was an

electrifying moment when Neil Kinnock took on the militant

tendency in Bournemouth in 1985 Ed Miliband has sort of tried to take

on the Unite union, but it has not worked. Does then not need to be an

electrifying moment for Ed Miliband? Your own paper has praised him for

seeking to address the issues we have in politics and the

disconnection from people. In many respects the situation in Falkirk

categorises the process of further ongoing change where we are trying

to establish a better relationship with individual trade union members.

In parts of my constituency, some of the most deprived parts, we had

people queueing round the block to vote. I do not think the issue is

that people are not political, but they have never felt so far from

party politics as they do now and that is why Ed Miliband announced

this big chains about how we do things in the Labour Party, so we

change structures in the Labour Party that were set up in the 2 th

century. The reform of the way in which we connect and our

relationship with the union puts us in a good position because we have

this relationship between the 3 million working people who ensure

our public services function. At Grangemouth INEOS stood up to

unite. At Grangemouth and Falkirk Labour rolled over to the Unite

union. I do not agree with that I'd just explained the reason. I do not

think it is fair to ask people to give evidence in an enquiry on the

basis of the report will be confidential and then to publish it

after. But if somebody is trying to take over a Labour constituency to

send an MP of their choice to our Parliament, that should not be

secret, that should be public. Ed Miliband acted very decisively. That

constituency party is still in special measures as I understand it.

This idea that somehow the Unite union runs the Labour Party, they do

not. The special measures mean according to Eric Joyce, that an

ally of Stevie Deans is chairing the meeting. I am interested in the Tory

suggestion that they would offer free Tory party membership to union

members. I then moving onto your turf? We do not know exactly all the

facts and the truth of the allegations that have been made On

your point I think it is healthy the Conservatives are looking to recruit

trade union members. A lot of their rhetoric is very negative in respect

of trade unions. If you look at Unison a third of the members vote

Conservative. In Unite union some of their members vote Tory. I think

trade unions have a lot to bring to our country. It is one of the things

many up and down the country will find very frustrating, a lot of the

good work that unions do if it gets tarnished with all the negative

stuff you see... Unite are working in partnership with GM and the

senior management in Ellesmere Port and the government ensured that we

kept that plant open. That gets overlooked by all of this. Do you

not think the bolshie behaviour from unions are motivated not by

strength, but by weakness. Unite know they cannot paralyse the

country in the way their forebears used to be able to do. Their

penetration rates in the private sector is 11%. The union movement is

weaker than it was before I was born. Some of that truck killers and

bad behaviour either death spasms of their movement rather than something

that is motivated by the fact they can't paralyse the country. You have

two increase the membership. But there is an issue about the public

perception of trade unions. It is right they should be a voice of

protest and anger and stand up for their members when it is necessary.

But people join unions for their aspiration. The unions do a lot so

that people can move up in their workplace. That profile needs to

come across as strongly as the protest part. I want to move on to

business. The head of the CBI has said that Labour's pro-enterprise

credentials have suffered a setback. He said that in relation to Ed

Miliband's speech. I was on the radio earlier. If you look at the

things in the speech, some of that was going to be uncomfortable for

some of the countries and they tend to be companies represented by the

CBI, like energy companies, like land developers, a lot of the big

business lose out from is not doing the corporate tax cut. The energy

freeze is going to help over 2. million businesses that have been

hit by high energy bills. The business community has said we had

to bring the public sector finances back into balance. That is why we

decided to switch the money being used to reduce corporation tax and

use that to help a much greater variety of businesses by doing a

business rate cut. It is all pro enterprise. They also seem to be

critical of your new idea of a living wage. They are not critical.

It would not be compulsory, but there would be a tax credit if they

paid it. It is good for business because if people are earning more

than they are more productive. It is good for the employee and good for

us as well because it means we are not having to subsidise people to be

paid to the extent we have with tax credits and benefits. Everybody

benefits from this. We all know after 2009 we need to have bold

change. Does Labour paid a living wage? We have got over 20 of our

councils signed up to doing so and we have made commitments in respect

to Whitehall. Does the Labour Party pay it? I believe so. Would it not

be worth checking? Do you get a living wage? Yes, of course I do. I

understand we paid a living wage. What does it feel like for Tristram

Hunt who has taken over your mantle as Labour's next leader? Is that a

relieved or are you angry? He is one of my best friends and at the end of

the day if we got obsessed with this soap opera stuff we would never get

anything done and we are working together to make sure we have got

the right skills in our workforce. That is all for today. The daily

politics is on all week. I will be here again next weekend at 12:2 pm

after the Remembrance Day service at the Cenotaph. Remember if it is

Sunday, it is the Sunday Politics. Planet Earth - it's unique.

It has life. To understand why, we're going to

build a planet...up there. There were the objects that were

making the Earth. We're now weightless.

That's how our planet started. Your arms are a little bit long

Is that as small as they go? This is like every shopping trip

I've ever been on.