08/06/2014 Sunday Politics Yorkshire and Lincolnshire

David Cameron slaps down two of his most senior Cabinet ministers

over their public row about Islamist extremism in schools.

And it?s HER special advisor that has to resign.

We'll talk to the Shadow Education Secretary live

Should this man become the next President of the EU Commission?

David Cameron has staked a lot on stopping Luxembourg Federalist

But could the arch europhile yet get the top job?

Here's to the quarter of a million votes.

And we'll find out why this political party is celebrating with

a pint down the pub and how their success may have cost UKIP two MEPs.

On the Sunday Politics in Yorkshire and Lincolnshire:

Could we see a new political partnership?

Why some senior Tories belidve the party should form a pact with UKIP.

Has Boris Johnson deserted the suburbs and become a zone one man?

And with me our panel of top political journalists,

who are always squabbling among themselves, Nick Watt, Polly Toynbee

and Janan Ganesh, who will be tweeting throughout the programme

This morning's political news is dominated

by the very public fall-out of Home Secretary Theresa May and

The high viz blue on blue spat between two senior

Conservatives centred around the Government's approach to tackling

The row burst into the open ahead of the publication tomorrow of

investigations into the so-called Trojan Horse plot in Birmingham

where it is alleged several state schools have been covertly taken

Mr Gove told The Times last week he was concerned that the Home Office

was unwilling to tackle extremism at its roots.

He said a robust response was needed to drain the swamp.

In response, Mrs May's special advisor tweeted,

"why is the Department for Education wanting to blame other people

Lord knows what more they have overlooked on the subject of the

An angry David Cameron ordered a speedy inquiry.

Last night, Mr Gove apologised to the Prime Minister, while Ms May's

Speaking on the BBC earlier this morning

this is what Foreign Secretary, William Hague, had to say.

There's been a disciplinary matter within the Government,

which the Prime Minister has dealt with in a very firm, clear way.

There will be discipline in the Government.

The main thing is the issue itself - tackling extremism in schools.

The Government will be very clear, very robust about anything that s

put children at risk - risk to their safety or learning.

Let's look at the positive of this. Theresa May 's people of saying she

has come off worse in theirs. Yelena Kushi is no more guilty than Michael

Gove he was guilty of indiscretion. She is no more guilty. Even during

13 years of new Labour 's psychodrama, I cannot remember an

act of hostility quite as naked as direct as publishing on a website

and intergovernmental letter. It suggests quite a lot of

conservatives do not think they will win next time. Why would there be a

leadership spat going on like this unless they thought there was a

vacancy? Inside the Cabinet, Theresa May is getting quite a bashing. In

the Sunday Times, someone has reported she is the date from hell.

She sidles up to people and is nakedly ambitious. I think that is

interesting. On the whole, nobody will understand the finesse

differences of opinion. It is not serious, it is not serious, it is

tactical. It'll be puzzling for most people and will probably fizzle out.

Has the Prime Minister slapped it down or will it rumble on? On the

politics of it, it will not fizzle out. What you have is Theresa May is

deadly serious about replacing David Cameron, not dislodging him but

replacing him if there is a vacancy. Michael Gove is deadly serious in

ensuring George Osborne succeeds David Cameron. It will be that

ongoing political rivalry. What is really interesting about this is the

Prime Minister is absolutely fed up with both of them. He is fed up with

Michael Gove full-size gearing of message. He had the row with Nick

Clegg and he had a row with Theresa May. He named Charles Barr and

criticised him in a lunch with the times. White brother he is the

Security adviser at the Home Office. -- he is the security advisor. He is

fed up with Theresa May for mounting an unannounced leader bid. What

separates Theresa May from Michael Gove on dealing with extremism? The

view from Michael Gove is that it shows no interest in Islamic

extremism until it manifests in violent form. Theresa May is

criticised for rolling back the programme which the previous Labour

government introduced to do with the previous Labour government

introduced to do with the Home Office has been made by other people

and made when the Home Office was not run by Theresa May but previous

home secretaries, even dating back to the Conservative government in

the 1990s. It is about the laxity of the Government. Michael Gove has

used extraordinary inflammatory language talking about draining the

swamp. I think Theresa May 's view is you can very

swamp. I think Theresa May 's view those emotions and create many more

swamp. I think Theresa May 's view extremists the process. Michael Gove

would say that his approach is entirely consistent with the speech

the Prime Minister made to the Munich Security conference in 2 11

when the Prime Minister talked about how extremists

warp the grape great religion of Islam. The Birmingham school system

is going to be one of the most reported systems in Europe.

Joining me now from Kent is Shadow Education Secretary Tristram Hunt.

Should parents of Birmingham children be worried that some of

their schools are in the grip of an Islamist takeover? I think parents

in Birmingham schools will be very disappointed by the political

infighting going on in the Government. The briefings, the

resignations, the apologies. The real apology that Michael Gove needs

to deliver it to the pupil -- the pupils and parents of Birmingham.

There was a potential threat of radicalisation. He fell to act for

four years. The Labour Party is asking, when did he know the fact

that radicalisation could have been taking place? What has been going on

for the last four years? What we in the Labour Party want to see if much

stronger systems of local oversight and accountability to situations

like this do not arise again. Is there, in your view, if some of the

Birmingham schools, an Islamist takeover? What we have seen in the

leaked Ofsted report so far is fears about cultural isolation and an

overconcentration on Islamic teaching within the curriculum. We

want young people to celebrate their cultural identity, celebrate

themselves as Muslims. We also want them to have an education which

makes them succeed in multicultural 21st-century Birmingham. We want to

be quite tough on moves towards gender segregation, a restricted

curriculum. Birmingham is a multicultural city. We need an

education system which celebrates that. What is wrong with gender

segregation? You went to an all boys school. Where you have gender

segregation, we have had a long tradition in Catholic schooling

Where you have a state education system, which is about gender

equality between boys and girls and there is an unofficial policy of

gender segregation, that is unacceptable. We should not be

tarring communities with the same brush in terms of radicalisation. We

do want to see a successful, multicultural education. Two years

ago, Ofsted rated Parkview as outstanding. Now it looks like

tomorrow it is going into special measures. What is it up to? I do

think there is an issue for Ofsted that you can go from outstanding to

inadequate so quickly. That is why we are asking for a new criteria to

be introduced to look at a broad and balanced curriculum. We have healthy

sex and relationship education. There is a real issue this morning

as the BBC has been reporting on the night for the Department of

Education. We are hearing that some of those involved in the schools

were not allowed to open a free school on security grounds. They

were allowed to allow one of the schools to be taken over as an

academy. We have a lack of oversight and accountability in schools within

Birmingham. What the Labour Party wants is a local director of school

standards to make sure we challenge underperformance and make sure we

get in confronting Islamic extremism when it was in power? I was speaking

to Hazel blears and she was very clear about the prevent programme

which they rolled out when in office. A very atomised and

fragmented school system where every school is looked at from behind a

desk in Whitehall and he put that together and you do have an

increased risk of chances of radicalisation. You have attacked Mr

Gove for gross negligence. Was it the same -- you attacked Mr Gove for

gross negligence. We are dealing with a government which has been in

since 2010. The Government needs to hold the executive to account. We

note the Department Michael Gove was warned by a senior and respected

head teacher about fears over radicalism. What did he know and

what did he act upon? We are hearing more reports of conversations about

fears, about radicalisation, taking over some of the governing bodies of

schools. We need to know what ministers did. Let me continue. You

mention the capital to prevent strategy. Was it gross negligence

for Labour to regularly consult a man who once headed a group

dedicated to making Britain an Islamic state and wrote a book about

schools full of Taliban style decrees. I think the events in

Birmingham are enormously significant. About the nature of

multiculturalism, the nature of education, the role of civic

education, the role of faith schools. I will say to you this

morning that Birmingham City Council, Ofsted, the Labour Party,

the Department for Education were all involved in this conversation.

In 2010, ministers were warned about potential radicalisation of schools

and they fell to act. We need to know why, for years on, they allowed

this situation to exacerbate. When you look at the record of labour and

this government 's record, there are plenty of examples where both of you

fail to act. Would it not be better to drop the party politics and get

together to confront this problem for the sake of the children? There

are a number of reports going on in Birmingham. Some are led by the city

council, some by the Department for Education. Labour MPs this morning

have come forward with the Bishop of Birmingham talking about faith in

schools. If you have a minister failing to do their job, if you have

a minister being given warnings in 2010 and failing to act on them for

four years, the opposition has a role to hold the executive to

account. This is about the safety and standards of teaching for pupils

in Birmingham schools. It is about a great education for these young

people so they can succeed in a modern, multicultural Britain. Do

you agree with your Shadow Cabinet colleague, Rachel Reeves, that

Labour' as core voters are abandoning the party? She was

building on what Ed said the day after the elections in Berwick. We

have to make sure those communities who we historically represent regard

Labour as having a successful message for them. I am passionate

about making sure we have great vocational and technical education,

the great academic education in our schools. If we have more work to do

to get people to the polling booths, we must do that. We must

with listen to what she says. David Cameron has staked a lot on

stopping the former PM of Luxembourg - named by one newspaper as 'the

most dangerous man in Europe' because of his federalist views -

from becoming the next president Mr Cameron has reportedly described

Jean Claude Juncker as a 'face from the 80s who cannot solve the

problems of the next five years . But with the German Chancellor

Angela Merkel publicly backing Mr Juncker, it's not a dead cert that

Mr Cameron can stop his appointment. This is what he had to say at the G7

summit earlier this week: It is important that we have people

running the institutions of Europe who understand the need for change

and reform. I would argue that view is widely shared amongst other heads

of government and heads of state in the European Union. I am clear what

I want to achieve for Britain's future, to secure Britain's placed

in a reformed European Union and I have a strategy for delivering

that, a strategy for dealing with an issue which I think if we walk away

from it would see Britain drift towards the exits.

We've been joined from Berlin by the German MEP Elmar Brok who is

a senior figure in the EPP - that's the party backing Mr Juncker.

He's also Chairman of the Union of European Federalists.

And in our Newcastle newsroom is the former Conservative MEP Martin

Callanan who until last month led the European Conservatives

and Reformists group in Brussels. Welcome to you both.

The United Kingdom, Sweden, Hungary, they don't want Mr Junker, the new

Italian Prime Minister doesn't look keen either, should he bow out

gracefully? First of all, he wants to have Mr Junker but he wants to

have his conditions. Will he become president of the European Council, a

high representative? It is a discussion to be had in the next

three or four weeks until the European Parliament can elect the

president of the European Council after the proposal of the European

Council, which has to be done after consultation with the Parliament in

the light of the European elections and by a majority vote. If not Mr

Junker, then who? There are many available candidates, I am not going

to mention them in front of someone so esteemed as Elmar Brok. Give us

one name that you would prefer? The prime Minister of Sweden, Christine

Lagarde, the minister from Lithuania, these are people who have

a record of old reform. Junker is the ultimate Europe insider. We need

radical inform. We need to respond to the message the electorate gave

us in the elections -- radical reform. Junker said he had to lie in

public, he allowed the security services to conduct a dirty tricks

campaign against his opponent. This is not who we want leading the

European Commission. Elmar Brok since the European voters have sent

a message to the parliament that they are not happy with the status

quo, why would you want a man who is synonymous with the status quo?

First of all what Martin has said is wrong. He has not done tricks

against his opponents. He was very clear on that. He is also the man

who was always for changes. He made dramatic changes as head of the Euro

group, came out of the economic crisis which was a result of the

financial crisis, made politics possible, to stop this incredible

financial sector influence of our states. I believe he is a man who

works on the programme which Mrs Merkel and others have decided in

Dublin, for the reform of the European Union, less government But

we need Europe more and he is not a man from the 80s. He is a man of

this century and in this century he made his own policy. He is the

winner of the European elections, he has a majority will stop Mrs

LANguard is not running because she knows she will not get the majority

in the European Parliament. -- Christine Lagarde is not running. It

is the Council of minister is that decides. No, the European Parliament

has the final word. The European Council can make a proposal by

majority in the light of the European elections after

consultation with the European Parliament. The council cannot get a

candidate against the will of the European Parliament. Mr Junker has a

majority in the European Parliament. Theoretically he is right, the

Parliament has do vote on the candidates proposed by the council.

I want to challenge the view that somehow he won the European

elections. There is no provision for Jean Claude Junker to stand in the

elections. He is saying that the EEP party got the most number of seats

in the Parliament but none of the electorate knew they were taking

part in this election. How many people who voted Labour in the

United Kingdom realised that their vote would count towards a German

socialist to be a candidate for the commission of presidency is a

nonsensical proposal. The elections were 28 individual elections with

hundreds of parties across Europe. To try to claim there is a

democratic mandate for somebody nobody has heard from Luxembourg to

take over the commission is a nonsense. People should know him, if

I should say that ironically. Newspapers talking about members of

the family of his wife with Nazi links... What is the answer to

Martin Callinan's point? I think it is clear that British Conservatives

have no candidate because they are not a broad European family, they

have not impacted on the selection of top candidates but it is a form

of isolation of the British Tory Party. The Prime Minister said if Mr

Junker is appointed it could lead to Britain drifting towards the EU

exit, is that credible? Is it melodramatic? It is true that we

want to renegotiate the relationship. We want some serious

reform in Europe so the people who vote in a referendum will be able to

vote to stay in if that is what they want. We need a bold reformer,

somebody prepared to engage. That is not anti the interests of the UK. We

need to recognise there is a problem with public perception of the

European Union. Elmar Brok is proud to be one of the last bastions of

federalism that that is not where most of the public opinion is in

Europe. I understand why he wants his man installed but we need to

take into account the message of the letter -- the electorate. 25% of the

publishing of France were prepared to vote for an openly racist party.

We can't just ignore the signal that the electorate were sending us. If

enthusiasm for federalism was at an all-time low, it would be a slap in

the face for the voters of Europe to have a federalist as the president,

would it not? 70, 80% of the members of the European Parliament, selected

by their people, are pro-Europeans. These are the winners of the

European elections. Even in France, a majority of voters have voted

pro-European and that should be clear, not to make this a populist

thing which is not only to do with Europe. And we want to have a Europe

which is strong, the member states should do their things. We do not

want to have a European centralism, we do not want a European state

This is not at stake. Let's talk about the question of better

governance, let's talk about what was wrong in the past, we have to

become better, to change our programme in that question. That

should be the way we lead to come to positive results. Thank you for

that. Before we go, there is a British commissioner that needs to

be appointed to Brussels, do you like the sound of that? These are

matters for the Prime Minister, I am sure he has many excellent

candidates. Do you like the sound of it? Like previous British

commissioners, Chris Patten, Neil clinic, I have just lost an election

-- Neil Kinnock for the everybody who is asked would serve, I'm sure.

Just days ago UKIP were celebrating topping the poll in the European

They're claiming they'd have had two more MEPs

and the Greens two fewer had another party not confused the electorate.

What's more UKIP say it's the fault of the body

which was set up to oversee elections - the Electoral Commission

This is a party celebrating success at the European elections. They

didn't win a single MEP but nationally polled 250,000 votes

They are an independence from Europe, mostly people who were once

in UKIP, and that is rather the point. They may look like capers,

drink like capers, sound like capers -- -- sound like kippers, but they

are not. The name and the logo were displayed on this banner when the

party launched its campaign. UKIP suggest the look, the wording and

the inclusion of UK in now confused voters, and are looking at rewriting

such a wrong. The way that seats are allocated in a European election

under a proportional representation system is using this formula. It was

invented by a Belgian mathematician in 1878 and it is essentially this.

When all of the votes have been tallied up, the one with the most

seats gets the first MEPC in a region. The others are allocated

using votes cast divided by the number of seats gained plus one --

first MEP seat in a region. UKIP were concerned with South West and

London. There they say, when the last MEP seats were being allocated,

if everyone who had voted for an independence from Europe had meant

to vote for UKIP and you tallied their votes up, and added them to

UKIP, UKIP would have been up one in each region and the greens would

have lost them. Whether you can prove that voters did that by

mistake is a very different matter. UKIP may have to just chalk it up to

experience. It has happened before, back in the European elections of

1994. Then in England under the first past the post system. This

man, Richard Huggett, decided to stand as a little Democrat and

polled a significant number of votes. The Liberal Democrat

candidate at the time is now an MP. Many people voted and afterwards

realised that they had bubbly voted for -- probably voted for a little

Democrat, not a Liberal Democrat as they had been intending to do -

bubbly voted for a literal Democrat -- probably voted.

Mr Sanders got some consolation In 1998, laws came into rule on

so-called spoiler tactics and the Electoral Commission was

established. The Electoral Commission are based on the seventh

floor of this building and they did look into this issue prior to

voting. They have given us a statement that reveals the

conclusion they came to, part of which says, we decided that the name

of the party, and its description are sufficiently different to those

registered by the UK Independence Party, UKIP, to mean, in our

opinion, that voters were not likely to be confused if they appeared on

the same ballot paper. Pretty conclusive stuff. Back at the pub,

were an independence from Europe just being crafty, or do UKIP need

to wake up and smell the flowers? We attack them in all areas. An

independent study for Anglo Netherlands because I was involved

in the Dutch -- with the Dutch member of Parliament and the

description was UK Independence now, nobody has a monopoly on the word

independence. I have been fighting for independence since I started in

1994, before I joined UKIP. The party tell me they will stand again

at the general election next year. The ironies not lost on them or the

major parties of UKIP complaining that a smaller party has been taking

votes of them. Joining me now to discuss

this story is Gawain Towler. He's the UKIP candidate for the

South West region, who failed to get And in our Bristol studios is

the victorious Green MEP for How many of the 23,000 votes that

were cast for the Independence party were meant for you? Impossible to

tell. I want to congratulate Molly for getting elected. They are the

breaks. I do not think there is a purpose in complaining about boats

that are cast. Do you think you would have one otherwise? Yes, I do.

You have to look at the would have one otherwise? Yes, I do.

You have to look boats for parties people have not heard of and those

with a long tradition that people have heard of. I do not think there

is any doubt. If you saw the spoiled ballot papers, the amount of people

who had voted at the top and the bottom, most people are not anoraks,

they say, they are the people I want. They know what they are after.

I think it is at least told. It is said you owe your seat to And

Independence Party. It is strange for a man to say he could represent

people in the south-west better than me. There has been outpouring of

delight that a Green MP has finally been elected. A number of people

have been saying they have been voting all their lives and it is the

first time they have elected anybody. I am glad to represent them

in a significant legislature. What would you say to that? I find it

strange. I am perfectly happy for her to be elected. I feel the

electoral commission has questions to answer. But, congratulations to

Molly. Why do you want an extra seat for the Greens in the European

Parliament but your national share of the vote actually fell. We did

come under pressure nationally. If he is complaining about the role the

election commission said we could stand, the rule we were not happy

with was the off, ruling which said we were not a main party. We got

significantly less media time and that is why our belt actually fell.

Not on the Daily Politics or the Sunday Politics, where you were well

represented. Was it a problem for UKIP in other parts of the country?

Only in London. What do you think happened there? Very much the same.

I do not think there is any doubt, the number of people we have had

getting in touch saying, I am really sorry, I made a mess, that they

voted for the wrong party. They are the breaks. Politics is politics.

What I would like to see and what is reasonable, and I hope Molly would

agree, there needs to be a reform - a serious reform of the Electoral

Commission. There is no appeal process. They say it is not

confusing. Lets see if she thinks that. I make it a policy never to

agree with UKIP. What is important to note, if you look at the votes

and the way the votes fell out and the seats fell out in the

south-west, it is difficult for an Electoral Commission to turn boats

into seats. UKIP got 33% of the vote and 33% of the seats. For them, the

system worked very well in the south-west. Nationally, Greens did

not get represented as the vote share would require. That is because

you get very small number of seats in the different regions and you

have to reach a high threshold. The Green Party has a right to complain

about the level of seats we have ended up with. White rapper you have

complaints about the Electoral Commission? We need to move to a

proportional system for elections generally. If we poll around 7% 8%,

we should be looking at having 0, 40 seats in the national

legislature. We need to consider proportional representation for

national elections. Do you accept the ballot paper may have confused

some people? I think what happened is that some people in UKIP were

very worried. Worried about the rightward move of UKIP and the

authoritarian leadership of Nigel Farage. He set up a separate party.

That is what happens in politics, particularly when parties are led by

demagogues and are not focused on Democratic policy. Do you have any

legal redress to this? None whatsoever. Have you had legal

advice? I am told there is no redress. We do feel, I am sure Molly

does not agree with UKIP on anything so, if we say the sun rises in the

morning, she probably will disagree with that. If, at the next election,

there is a party called the Grown Party, will she then complain? There

needs to be some level of accountability and, without that,

one wonders what is going on. We have an organisation with enormous

and important power and influence which is setup to stop this of thing

going on. It has failed. Not has it has failed. Not present served in

Tower Hamlets and there have been massive problems with postal votes.

It is failing on almost everything it is supposed to do. Just to go

back for a final point from Molly. Should there be a right of appeal to

the rulings of the Electoral Commission? You need to have an

authoritative body that makes decisions in this area and we have

the Electoral Commission. It is about being sore losers on the part

of UKIP. I am delighted to represent people in the South West. Should

there be a right of appeal or not? You need an authoritative body and

the Electoral Commission is that. I do not think it should have a right

to appeal. We say goodbye to viewers

in Scotland, who leave us now Hello.

we'll be discussing extremism You are watching the Sunday Politics

for Yorkshire and Lincolnshhre. Could we see

a new political partnership? Why some senior Tories belidve

the party should form an electoral pact with UKIP

in a bid to reconnect the rhght And we will be taking

the temperature of Yorkshire?s Liberal Democrats now

the dust has settled on another set First, let's say hello to

our guests today. The Labour MP for Hull North

and Shadow Home Office Minister The Liberal Democrat MP for

Bradford East, David Ward. And the Conservative MP

for Cleethorpes, Martin Vickers First, could we see a pact

between the Conservatives and UKIP One senior Tory MP from Lincolnshire

has told us the two parties should agred not to

fight each other in some se`ts The recent success of UKIP

in the local and European elections was widely interpreted

as a protest vote against But according to senior

Conservative Sir Edward Leigh, it's his party that has

the most to lose if UKIP do well In a first past the post system

it is death Just as it would be death

for the left to be divided. The Labour Party split in h`lf and

there was a Conservative landslide. A formal pact might be posshble

but informal relationships coupled with the fact that we reasstre

our traditional voters that we really are Conservative,

and I think we have a chancd This couple are Conservativd voters

who live in Sir Edward Leigh?s How do they feel about the Tories

forming an alliance with UKHP? I think that Nigel Farage is putting

on an image that is not suitable You don't think David Cameron

should do a deal with them? You don't think he should do

a deal? Nigel Farage has consistently ruled

out forming This is what he said

in a recent interview. UKIP is a different party whth

a different manifesto and wd are The Newark by`election,

and the Conservatives hold onto the Sir Edward Leigh believes Tory

voters have been put off by coalition policies such

as same sex marriage. I think it was a great mist`ke

to bring in gay marriage. Some future Labour government

would have done it. But it is done now,

we're not going to undo it. But I would think that some senior

Conservative Minister could at least apologise to some of our older

traditional supporters who value their traditional old`fashioned view

of marriage that we are sorry that I don't agree with gay marrhage

I voted against it, it is done now, but I would think somebody `t

the top of the party could `pologise for the hurt it has caused,

especially to religious people. We have already seen one unlikely

political marriage in Many will speculate

whether we will see another What do you make

of those suggestions? You will form a pact with UKIP

and agree not to fight each other Well, it would be nice in theory. I

was talking to UKIP councillors last night, reminding them that ht was

the 35th anniversary of the referendum in 1975. I have been

consistent with my views. It is a bit of a pointless exercise. UKIP

competing against me for thd same votes. The reality is that the main

parties are going to have a candidate in every seat. I think it

is up to UKIP to decide who it is best to leave unopposed. Wotld you

welcome some sort of local arrangement between the parties were

you would agree not to fight each other? It is not going to h`ppen.

The main parties will have ` candidate in every seat. Dods the

prospect of some sort of alliance worry you? That would potentially

make them stronger together? We know the Conservatives are having a hard

time in the North are getting votes. Where there join up with UKHP or

not. In the 2010 election, there was a packed them between some TKIP

candidates and Conservative candidates. Nigel Farage saxs it

will not happen. Let's see whether it does. We know he changes his mind

all the time. He ripped up his last manifesto in 2010. If there was a

packed with UKIP, that would rule out any future coalition with the

Liberal Democrats, surely? What you can see with Suresh Bernard Lee is

what we have saved the nation from. I am delighted we are able to do

that. `` Sir Edward Leigh. H cannot see the Tory party standing down in

favour of a UKIP candidate. What do you make of those comments? He

mentioned that the government should apologise for the upset caused by

gay marriage? The gay marri`ge issue was a blunder, to be honest, for a

Conservative government to be taking the lead on. It upset a gre`t number

of our core supporters, as Ddwards said. I think I am right in saying

the majority of the parliamdntary party actually voted against the

legislation. I believe therd should have been a mandate for it `nd it

should have been included in a manifesto and not just taking people

by surprise. Do you accept that there are many voters who are

socially conservative but they don't feel represented by the main

Westminster parties when it comes to issues such as Same Sex Marriage

Bill? The issue is, if you don't want it, don't enter into a Same Sex

Marriage Bill anyone. I am pleased this has gone through Parli`ment.

All parties are suffering from the voters in the country not fdeling

that the trust politicians. We know that the expenses scandal w`s a big

problem. I am pleased Ed Miliband has been talking about big hssues

such as the cost of living, the bills people are having to pay and

employment. UKIP are now thd party of protests and have stolen your

thunder in that respect? Ond of the reasons that will not be a formal

agreement is because it is very unpredictable. You cannot sde where

UKIP will take the votes from. We have seen in some quite

working`class areas the Labour vote has been badly affected by TKIP It

is not the basis for any de`l. UKIP got 25% of the vote in half. `` in

Hull. All the councillors in Hull know that we have a job to dngage

with the electorate about some of the issues they feel left bdhind on.

Part of the UKIP narrative hs to appeal to groups who are left behind

for all parties have to start talking to everybody in our society,

not just perhaps those who normally votes. Immigration is a key issue.

No political party going into the next general election withott a

robust position on immigrathon will succeed. I accept that. It hs the

key issue for the majority of people. We need to give thel an

assurance that we are going to deal with the issue. I agree with Diana

that both the main parties have lost touch with their core support. We

have tried to broaden their appeal. In the process, they have ldft

people behind. A vacuum has been created and UKIP have steppdd into

that. The Liberal Democrats? sixth place

in the Newark by`election, losing their deposit,

capped off a pretty rotten couple How do the Lib Dems recover after

losing yet more councils se`ts and It is here at Sheffield Town Hall

where decisions affecting the city have been made

for more than a century. Not so long ago,

it was the Lib Dems that led the Many may think of South Yorkshire

as being predominantly Labotr But here in Sheffield for the last

20 years the Liberal Democr`ts Sheffield Hallam is the onlx seat

in the region never to have had Two years later, the party `lso

took control of the city cotncil. Since then, there has been ` Lab`Lib

battle for power at the town hall, This constituency has gone

from strength to strength I do hereby declare that Nick Clegg

is duly elected... Nick Clegg became the MP here

in 2005. Within two years,

he was leading the party. Perhaps it was this that helped

the Lib Dems retake control Two years after that came

the crucial turning point. The left of Labour Lib Dems got

in to bed with the Tories to form After 12 months,

they lost 10 councillors. Another 12 months

and they lost another 10. They are now left with 18 ott of 84,

the lowest for 20 years. It is not just Sheffield th`t

has seen a drop in support. Hull and Leeds city councils have

seen the number of councillors fall by more

than half in the last four xears. It is now claimed that Nick Clegg's

approval ratings make him the least popular party leader

of the modern age. Will brand Clegg prove toxic here

in Sheffield too? Joining me now are two people who

can help answer that question. The newly elected leader of the

Lib Dems in Sheffield. And a student

from Sheffield who stood as a city You are the third leader of the Lib

Dem group in the last two ydars I certainly hope not. In thd ward I

represent, our majority went up from 400 to 800. Across the Sheffield

Hallam constituency, we got 38% of the vote. That looks very sdcure.

You have been losing councillors. Is their anger on a local level about

the decisions that Nick Clegg is making on the top of the party that

are having an impact further down? In 2010, we had to form a stable

government. The only option was to go into coalition with the

Conservatives. The turnaround on tuition fees was a great crhticism.

How can Nick Clegg persuade students that what he says is believ`ble He

apologised for the tuition fees pledge and recognises the area that

was made full `` made. The previous Labour government did not apologise

for twice breaking a similar pledge. We are delivering more jobs,

securing our environment, more funding for schools as well as a

fairer politics. That is wh`t we have delivered. Do you think in the

next 11 months the Lib Dems can turn things around? I certainly think we

can because people are realhsing that the photos in coalition with

the Conservatives things wotld not have been introduced like the

?10,000 personal allowance which helps the lower paid. Things like

the Pupil Premium in schools. Free school meals for infants. What would

have been introduced would have been the Conservative policy of raising

inheritance tax threshold is so the rich would have got a pay off there.

Schools would have been allowed to make profits. We have been `ble to

make sure in government that we have a stronger economy and a fahrer

society at the end of this term Thank you to you both. Desphte

voices of dissent across thd country from Lib Dems, here in Sheffield,

they are standing by their lan. David Ward, there are three Lib Dem

MPs in the Yorkshire region including yourself. How manx will be

next year? I don't think we will lose the three. It will be difficult

to gain on that. When we had our parliamentary meeting, we wdnt round

all the MPs and without excdption they said they did pretty wdll. We

have to work hard as MPs, btt we also have the opportunity to tell

people what we have done and dispel some of the myths and downrhght

lies. You have had for years to do that. People are still switching

their votes to other parties. In Nick Clegg's constituency, they A1

four out of five. `` they one `` one.

I think history will look b`ck and say this was the most difficult job

anyone in British politics has had. Churchill had it quite tricky.

Managing a party where therd are by`elections. The Labour Party

battalion hate us because wd are in government with the Tories. The

Tories hate us because they want to rule on their own. Surprise

surprise, we are going to gdt hammered. If there was a college in

government between Labour and the Lib Dems after the next election,

would you want to be in it? I want a Labour government in 2015 that can

implement the issues we are talking about. I am not interested hn

talking about a coalition whth the Liberal Democrats. I find it

remarkable that David is talking about the lies that have bedn told

about tuition fees. Cheerle`der policy of the Liberal Democrats in

2010 was to tuition fees. They came in and triple them. This idda that

somehow they have been mitigating force on the Conservative government

is just the lonely. They have actually troubled tuition fdes. ``

is just nonsense. They supported the dreadful NHS bill. They didn't have

to do that. They have sold their principles down the line. This idea

that somehow they are the nhce bit of the government is rubbish. This

party supports tuition fees. This party supports tuition fees. The

majority of MPs in the Housd of Commons supports tuition feds. The

lies I am referring to an lhterature which says ?9,000 worth of tradition

`` tuition fees. It is a lid that you would need to find ?27,000 for

three children. No`one forcdd you to vote for that. The issue is you

lying. If we could not abolhsh it, the next aim was to make sure that

those from deprived backgrotnds were not affected. How can we abolish

them? Do you see the Lib Dels as a coming force on the Conserv`tive

Party of the coalition? It hs certainly difficult to see Diana and

David in coalition! Clearly I want a Conservative government. Yot have to

accept what the outcome of the election is. The problem we will

have next year is that we h`ve essentially a 2`party voting

system. It can cope with as little intervention `` it can call with a

little intervention from thd Lib Dems, but if there is a fourth party

such as UKIP, who knows what that will throw up? I sincerely hope we

get David Cameron in Downing Street. Let's talk about the Queen's Speech.

Labour say it is about what is not in the Queen's Speech. We spoke to

Yvette Cooper. She says she was surprised that was not more on

immigration. I think people are worried about dodgy employers and

agencies who are exploiting cheap migrant labour to undercut local

wages and jobs. Maybe pushing people want is you will our contract or

employing people illegally. That has to be stopped and dealt with. The

Queen's Speech could have done that and they have not. What do xou make

about this being a thin Quedn's speech pushed by a zombie

government? It is nonsense. I was very happy with the Queen's speech.

The focus is clearly on the economy, jobs, growth and so on

That will be the final determinant of who wins the general election

next year. The only bill th`t I thought had real legs was the

modern`day slavery Bill. In terms of what was not in there, nothhng about

dealing with the banks, nothing about dealing with employment,

nothing about the cost of lhving, nothing about peoples energx bills,

so very thin Queen's speech. I think it shows the parties cannot really

agree on very much at this stage. The best we get from the Lib Dems is

5p on a carrier bag. Some MPs were not happy about the right to recall.

This will be the first government to put something in place for the

public to recall their MPs hf they feel we have done something wrong.

It does not go as far as I would have liked, but let's get it on the

statute books. Giving peopld the power to recall is a good start We

have had so many atrocious dxamples of misbehaviour by MPs that simply

allowed three or four years before you can get rid of an MP I think is

unacceptable. We have to be very careful. You cannot have a

referendum every now and thdn on the behaviour of an MP because opinions

swing from one side to another. The threshold at which they can be

triggered is a crucial thing we need to decide upon. This is the

committee that thought Mari` Miller's expenses claims were

acceptable. That was a nonsdnse I agree that we need a tougher recall

Bill. It is difficult to get the balance right. If we can't toughen

it up a bit, then I will support those measures. Are you happy to pay

5p for a plastic bag? I don't want to pay 5p but I reuse materhal

bikes. There are bigger isstes to debate.

my guests. That is it for the Sunday Politics in London. Back to Andrew.

Is enough being done to tackle extremism in schools?

Will Mr Cameron stopped Mr Junker, will make

we are joined by the founder of the Quilliam Association. If you read

the Sunday Telegraph this morning, there is a real problem. If you read

the Observer, there is not much of a problem. What is the situation in

your view in Birmingham? Allegations are seen to be -- if music was not

being taught as it should be. Instead of the rating the national

holidays here during the Christmas period, children were sent off

instead on religious pilgrimage to Mecca, then I think something is

going on. From my knowledge, I know about some of the strategies to

influence. These strategies are known as gradualism. The idea, like

the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt is to join the institutions of society

and influence from within -- from within. It is a gradual approach to

Islamicisation society. We have seen that happening in other areas, such

as the decision by the Law Society to call it shy and issue it out as

guidance for solicitors. They are saying this means that women inherit

half of what men saying this means that women inherit

and adopted children do not get any inheritance. Apostates do not get

any inheritance. These are guidelines being issued by the Law

Society by Islamic. It is a medieval take on Islam. That is what is

meant. We see the same names popping up again and again in different

situations in Birmingham. Is it a planned infiltration? In my

profession of you and planned infiltration? In my

profession of you having spent 3 years on the leadership of an

Islamist organisation, having been involved

Islamist organisation, having been and setting up schools, I am very

Islamist organisation, having been certain is a deliberate plan to

influence the students of this country with a medieval

interpretation of my own faith to bring about a medieval, conservative

view, and enforce things like segregation on boys and girls within

our public institutions. With these things be acceptable if they were

explicitly they schools? If they were state. We had state Anglican

faith schools. We have state Catholic faith schools as well.

Would it be acceptable if these were state Islamic schools? That is a

policy question. I am not generally in favour. I would believe in this

establishment. I am not a fan of faith schools. I do think the

solution is to ban them. I do think these schools should start working

out with an engaging with the wider communities and not being insular

and looking inwards. It is very important. The Ofsted report is

coming out tomorrow. We have already had a taste about what it is saying

about some of the schools. Is it a serious problem? It is a very

serious problem. It comes from the segregation of children into

intensely populated areas where everyone is Muslim virtually. You

have to have a system of spreading children between schools. It very

often happens, even with a secular school like this. Nearby Catholic or

Church of England schools become like-for-like schools and that

leaves the rest of the state schools to become all of one faith. I think

all of the parties are being quite hypocritical about the profound

problem of continuing to have faith schools. You have Orthodox Jewish

schools with extraordinary dogma being taught. Indeed very strict

Catholic schools with amazing dogma being taught. To somehow only get

worried when it is Islamic, when it is Muslim schools, becomes a

problem. You have to look at the whole issue and said the state

should simply withdraw from the business of faith education. Like

France? Yes, a secular school. The overall government policy is to take

power away. The dilemma with that is that it comes with dangers. Some

schools will be incompetent and some schools will be more than

incompetent, they will be maligned in some respects. The one bit of

this policy which has never been entirely squared is how do you

devolve and retain a basic minimum of educational standards and

behavioural standards while doing it? There is an even deeper quandary

for Britain. We have prided ourselves on allowing radical views

that stop short of violence. We took on Karl Marx and the rest of Europe

would not have him. The rest of Europe could not believe how

tolerably well of radical preachers in the 1990s. Do we stick with that

view? The risks were greater than they were 100 years ago. We do

expect, whatever peoples faith, that our children, at the expense of the

taxpayer, are educated, not instructed, not indoctrinated,

educated. We do expect that and also that boys and girls are treated

equally. One of the things the board in Birmingham will be looking at

which has Andrew Mitchell on it the former development Secretary,

because he is a Birmingham MP full Sutton, they are really concerned

about whether the girls are being treated as second-class citizens.

There has been a lot of work done on empowerment of girls. Shirley

Williams made the point that what Michael Gove has done by creating

free schools and academies is undermined the work of local

education authorities. They think they are traditional bodies which

are not open to reform. One school in Birmingham which is accused of

being in trouble is a local education school. They cannot have

the other side. Under Michael Gove, they are answerable to the Secretary

of State. It is down to Ofsted. Ofsted is giving the schools, not

that long ago, outstanding marks. There are big questions about the

oversight of schools. Tristan Hunt was trying to answer that point By

tapping it cannot all have gone pear shaped in two years. How do you

think that will play out? -- it cannot have gone pear shaped. The

story was broken in February. It will keep playing out. The report

that was due out Ofsted is tomorrow or Monday. Then there is the other

report that will look into wider questions, that will come out in

July, I think. We are expecting two points. -- reports. We have to look

at questions of Ofsted and other institutions in our society, even

government departments, where idea of taxing non-violent extremism

became a too boot in this country. -- a taboo. They must be rebuffed

the challenge, as we would expect racism to be challenged. In the

argument between Michael Gove and Theresa May, where do you side? They

should be challenged openly and robust leap by civilian society It

was settled by the Prime Minister and is government policy. I had a

hand in advising or consulting. I think Fiona Cunningham was forced to

resign because what she did violates official government policy. It just

has not been implemented yet. Will Mr Cameron succeed with Juncke?

You'll agree he have to decide whether he will spirit at stopping

him or accepting him as commission president and ask in return for a

massive commission portfolio for Britain, something like the internal

market, which they missed out on last time. It is a diplomatic

decision he have to make. It is too late for that he is into deep. If he

takes over the job, Cameron is left with egg on its face. From the

beginning, he did not have his voice with the weight of the British

Conservative Party, with ankle and Arkle, the rest of them. He is

reaping -- Angela Merkel, the rest of them. He is reaping that reward.

There is a lot of support within Europe. In Germany, there was a lot

of opposition to David Cameron getting his way. I know him from

Brussels. He is entertaining, you go to dinner with him and he smokes and

drinks. He is entertaining but he is the most awful person you could

think of having trying to sort of symbolise a new European Union. I

remember I was there join the Luxembourg presidency in 2005 when

the voters in France and the Netherlands voted no to the European

constitution, what was his response to that? Let's carry on with the

ratification process of this treaty that has been comprehensively

rejected by voters. He did not say the final bit of that sentence. You

can see why Eurosceptics want him. He has blown a raspy at all the

people who have protested at the elections with the way the European

Union is going. -- blown a Rasberry. This is your most popular... What

has come in most recently is doing really well. This is yours. There we

go. Cheers! By our people so cynical? They always go for a drink

at 11am and they pull their own pipes. I see them every day. -- pts.

Is there anything Mr Clegg can do is to mark the idea is to define

clearly a liberal brand, or at least I hope it is. It is not good enough

for us to say the Liberal Democrats challenge the Tories on this, on the

fairer society, and challenge the Labour Party on a strong economy. We

need to define what we stand for. That is what I call a liberal brand,

assertive liberalism. I have been there myself and I think that is

what he will be speaking about. Standing up for liberal values, to

finding -- defining what they are. Disestablishment in getting younger

people re-engage with politics. The overwhelming number are actually

liberal. We only have about 20 seconds. I suggest to you it is too

late. Sign up with the one principle on which he stood is Europe. -- the

one principle on which he stood if Europe. That is why he has been

doing so badly. He cannot get out of the hole he is in. If you fight

three general elections to the left of Labour and on the third when you

are in coalition with the Tories, you have got a problem. I will be

back next week. Remember if it is Sunday, it is the Sunday Politics.

What's the hardest thing about being a foster parent?

You're constantly trying to build the elusive trust.

It's like a big old question mark in your heart.

I just try and do the best I can for them while they're with me

Join Lorraine Pascale as she looks at stories of fostering...

I wasn't happy at all, but now I am. ..including her own.

Nice to know finally where I came to the world.

To know that you've grown up and had such a successful life is lovely.