Browse content similar to 21/09/2014. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Good morning from Manchester, where the Labour Party are gathering | :00:10. | :00:13. | |
for their annual conference as British politics adjusts to what | :00:14. | :00:16. | |
the rest of the UK. in Scotland might mean for | :00:17. | :00:54. | |
Scotland's decision to vote 'no' means more powers heading north | :00:55. | :01:00. | |
But what about Home Rule for England? | :01:01. | :01:07. | |
Independence for Scotland has been his life's work. Alex Salmond tells | :01:08. | :01:12. | |
us why he is stepping down after losing Thursday's vote. And we've | :01:13. | :01:17. | |
got an exclusive survey of what the people who want to be Labour MPs | :01:18. | :01:23. | |
think about immigration, the cue and their party. We will ask the Shadow | :01:24. | :01:30. | |
Business Secretary if he agrees. In London, thoughts of more tax-raising | :01:31. | :01:33. | |
powers and more freedom to spend. But what is the next devolution step | :01:34. | :01:47. | |
for the capital? With me, the best and brightest political panel in the | :01:48. | :01:49. | |
business, at least that is what they pay me to say every week. Nick Watt, | :01:50. | :01:54. | |
Helen Lewis and, this week, we have done some devolution ourselves to | :01:55. | :02:00. | |
other areas, and we have Sam Coates from the times. The union survived, | :02:01. | :02:05. | |
but only at the cost of more powers for the Scottish parliament and | :02:06. | :02:08. | |
enshrining the formula that gives Scotland a privileged position when | :02:09. | :02:12. | |
it comes to public spending, which has MPs on both sides of the Commons | :02:13. | :02:18. | |
of in arms. The Scottish question has been answered for now. Suddenly, | :02:19. | :02:22. | |
the English question takes centre stage, doesn't it? Absolutely. It | :02:23. | :02:32. | |
has a grubby feel, when that vow was put to the Scottish people, that | :02:33. | :02:36. | |
they hoped would swing the vote, there was nothing about English-only | :02:37. | :02:42. | |
votes. It was unconditional? The Tory proposal did talk very core | :02:43. | :02:46. | |
justly about looking at the proposals by a former clerk of the | :02:47. | :02:49. | |
House of Commons that looked at this issue. That was very cautious. -- | :02:50. | :02:58. | |
cautiously. These proposals will not get through Westminster unless David | :02:59. | :03:01. | |
Cameron addresses the English-only issue. You look at people like Chris | :03:02. | :03:05. | |
Grayling in the Sunday Telegraph. Alistair Darling on the Andrew Marr | :03:06. | :03:08. | |
Show said you could not have a link between what you are giving Holyrood | :03:09. | :03:12. | |
and English-only MPs. Back on says, is welshing on the deal. -- comic he | :03:13. | :03:22. | |
They were furious that he gave away these tax powers and inscribed the | :03:23. | :03:29. | |
Barnett formula. They said they weren't going to vote for it. It is | :03:30. | :03:38. | |
a shameless piece of opportunism. Now they can say that Labour are the | :03:39. | :03:41. | |
ones that don't trust you and don't want to give you more powers. He | :03:42. | :03:45. | |
knows it is going to be a tight timetable. The idea of getting a | :03:46. | :03:49. | |
draft of this out by Burns Night, most people would say, given they | :03:50. | :03:53. | |
had six years to set up Scottish parliament, the idea we will solve | :03:54. | :03:56. | |
these huge constitutional questions in four months is absurd. But they | :03:57. | :04:04. | |
don't care about the constitutional questions, the one they care about | :04:05. | :04:10. | |
is English votes? There is a simple reason they won that. If you look at | :04:11. | :04:14. | |
the MPs in England alone, the Tories have a majority of 59, an | :04:15. | :04:19. | |
overwhelming bias, and if you strip out Wales Scotland and Northern | :04:20. | :04:22. | |
Ireland, so this has become a partisan issue. The question is | :04:23. | :04:25. | |
whether David Cameron can follow through on the promise. He said he | :04:26. | :04:30. | |
would link the two Scottish powers, but it's not clear you will get | :04:31. | :04:36. | |
either before the general election. It's not but the purpose is to cause | :04:37. | :04:40. | |
Labour Party discomfort, and it is. You can see with date -- Ed Miliband | :04:41. | :04:46. | |
this morning, they find it very hard to answer the question, why | :04:47. | :04:49. | |
shouldn't there be English votes for English laws? Ed Miliband this | :04:50. | :04:55. | |
morning was saying how London MPs get to vote on London transport and | :04:56. | :05:00. | |
English MPs don't outside of London and it is confusing, but Labour is | :05:01. | :05:03. | |
in a difficult position. They were before the Prime Minister made his | :05:04. | :05:08. | |
announcement. The yes side triumphed in Glasgow, the largest city in | :05:09. | :05:12. | |
Scotland, a Labour heartland, and the Prime Minister is saying that if | :05:13. | :05:15. | |
Labour don't agree to this by the time of the general election, he is | :05:16. | :05:20. | |
handing a gift to the SNP, that that would be the party that the natural | :05:21. | :05:23. | |
Labour voters would vote for to see off the plan. It's not just Tory | :05:24. | :05:29. | |
backbenchers. There are Labour backbenchers saying there should be | :05:30. | :05:31. | |
in which bodes for English laws. Even people in the Shadow Cabinet | :05:32. | :05:35. | |
think it is right. The cases unarguable. If you say her chewing a | :05:36. | :05:41. | |
partisan way, you can't sell it to the country. Ed Miliband is on | :05:42. | :05:44. | |
course to have a majority of about 20, and you take the 40 English MPs, | :05:45. | :05:51. | |
and he hasn't got it. This is a coalition government where the | :05:52. | :05:55. | |
Conservatives haven't got really to be in charge, they have put in | :05:56. | :05:59. | |
sweeping laws. Labour should probably take the bullet on this | :06:00. | :06:03. | |
one. Let's leave it for the moment. But don't go away. As they struggle | :06:04. | :06:10. | |
to keep the United Kingdom in one piece, David Cameron, Ed Miliband | :06:11. | :06:13. | |
and Nick Clegg promised to keep something called the Barnett | :06:14. | :06:14. | |
Formula. It wasn't invented in Barnet, | :06:15. | :06:17. | |
but by man called Joel Barnett. And it's how | :06:18. | :06:20. | |
the UK government decides how much public money to spend in Scotland, | :06:21. | :06:22. | |
Wales and Northern Ireland. It's controversial, | :06:23. | :06:24. | |
because it's led to public spending being typically 20% higher | :06:25. | :06:26. | |
in Scotland than in England. Well, some English MPs | :06:27. | :06:28. | |
aren't happy about that. I'm joined now by the | :06:29. | :06:31. | |
Tory MP Dominic Raab. Welcome to the Sunday Politics. How | :06:32. | :06:43. | |
can the Prime Minister scrap the Barnett Formula when he has just | :06:44. | :06:47. | |
about to keep it on the front page of a major Scottish newspaper? If we | :06:48. | :06:53. | |
are going to see financial devolution to Scotland, more powers | :06:54. | :06:57. | |
of tax and spend, it's impossible not to look at the impact on the | :06:58. | :06:59. | |
wider union, and there have been promises made to the Scottish and we | :07:00. | :07:04. | |
should do our best to deliver them, but there have been promises made to | :07:05. | :07:07. | |
the English, Welsh and Northern Irish. If you look at the Barnett | :07:08. | :07:11. | |
Formula which allocates revenue across the UK, it is massively | :07:12. | :07:15. | |
prejudicial to those other parts. We have double the number of ambulance | :07:16. | :07:19. | |
staff and nurses compared to England. The regional breakdown is | :07:20. | :07:23. | |
more stark with double the amount spent on social housing in Scotland | :07:24. | :07:27. | |
than in Yorkshire and the North West and the Midlands. The Welsh do very | :07:28. | :07:30. | |
poorly on social services for the elderly. What are we saying? That | :07:31. | :07:34. | |
they need our children, patients and the elderly are worth less than the | :07:35. | :07:40. | |
Scots? That's not the way to have a sustainable solution. I understand | :07:41. | :07:45. | |
the distribution impact of the Barnett Formula, but Westminster | :07:46. | :07:48. | |
politicians are already held in contempt by a lot of people and to | :07:49. | :07:53. | |
rat on such a public pledge would confirm their worst fears. Your | :07:54. | :07:59. | |
leader would have secured the union on a false prospectus. First of | :08:00. | :08:03. | |
all, it's clear from the Ashcroft poll that the offer made in the | :08:04. | :08:09. | |
Scottish newspaper had zero effect and if anything was | :08:10. | :08:11. | |
counter-productive to the overall result because two thirds of swing | :08:12. | :08:14. | |
voters in the last few days voted for independence. But we can't keep | :08:15. | :08:19. | |
proceeding without looking at the promises made to the English. We | :08:20. | :08:24. | |
said in the referendum that we would have English laws -- English votes | :08:25. | :08:28. | |
on English issues. The Liberal Democrats, in their manifesto, | :08:29. | :08:31. | |
pledged to scrap the Barnett Formula. We have to reconcile all of | :08:32. | :08:35. | |
the promises to all parts of the UK, and Alex Salmond talks about a | :08:36. | :08:39. | |
Westminster stitch up, but what he's trying to do is, with gross double | :08:40. | :08:44. | |
standards, is in French stitch up in rapid time, which would be grossly | :08:45. | :08:50. | |
unfair to the rest of the rest of UK -- is contrive stitch up. What is | :08:51. | :08:56. | |
unfair about the current spending formula? The extra money Scotland | :08:57. | :09:02. | |
gets from Barnet, is covered by the oil revenues it sends to London. | :09:03. | :09:07. | |
Scotland is only getting back on spending what it pays in tax. There | :09:08. | :09:10. | |
is no analysis out there that suggests it is the same amount. | :09:11. | :09:17. | |
Having voted to stay in the UK. Let me give you the figures. Last year | :09:18. | :09:22. | |
revenues were 4.5 billion, and the Barnett Formula was worth 4.5 | :09:23. | :09:30. | |
billion to Scotland. It is awash. A huge amount of British taxpayer | :09:31. | :09:33. | |
investment has gone into extracting North Sea oil, and if we move to a | :09:34. | :09:37. | |
more federal system, we would need to look at things like the | :09:38. | :09:41. | |
allocation of resources, but the Barnett Formula has been lambasted | :09:42. | :09:45. | |
as a national embarrassment and grossly unfair by its Labour Party | :09:46. | :09:49. | |
architect, Lord Barnett. So what we need is to change this mechanism so | :09:50. | :09:54. | |
it is based on need. The irony is, when the Scots allocate Avenue to | :09:55. | :09:58. | |
the -- revenue to their local authorities, it's done on a needs | :09:59. | :10:01. | |
basis, and what is good for Scotland must be good for the rest of | :10:02. | :10:06. | |
Britain. One final question. The Prime Minister is now making his | :10:07. | :10:11. | |
promise of more home rule for Scotland conditional on English | :10:12. | :10:14. | |
votes for English laws. Why didn't he spell out the condition when he | :10:15. | :10:18. | |
made his bow to the Scottish people? Why has this condition been tacked | :10:19. | :10:22. | |
on by the Prime Minister? In the heat of the referendum debate lots | :10:23. | :10:28. | |
of things were said, but the truth is that Parliament must also look at | :10:29. | :10:33. | |
this and make its views known, and English MPs as well. You will find | :10:34. | :10:37. | |
that conservative as well as a lot of Labour MPs would say, we cannot | :10:38. | :10:40. | |
just rush through a deal that is unsustainable. It has to be good for | :10:41. | :10:46. | |
all parts of Britain. Yes, we should deliver on our promises for more | :10:47. | :10:49. | |
devolution to Scotland, but let's deliver on promises to be English, | :10:50. | :10:52. | |
and Northern Irish. Why are they locked out of the debate? Let's | :10:53. | :10:57. | |
leave it there. Thank you for joining us. | :10:58. | :10:59. | |
The man responsible for taking Scottish nationalism from | :11:00. | :11:01. | |
the political fringes to within touching distance of victory, Alex | :11:02. | :11:03. | |
Salmond, has a flair for dramatic announcements, and he gave us | :11:04. | :11:06. | |
another on Friday when he revealed he's to stand | :11:07. | :11:08. | |
Friends and foes have paid tribute to his extraordinary career. | :11:09. | :11:13. | |
In a moment I'll be speaking to Alex Salmond, | :11:14. | :11:15. | |
but first here's Adam Fleming with the story of the vote that broke | :11:16. | :11:18. | |
The BBC's HQ on the Clyde, the whole place converted into a studio for | :11:19. | :11:40. | |
Scotland's big night. You know what you need for big events, big | :11:41. | :11:43. | |
screens, and there are loads of them here. That one is three stories | :11:44. | :11:47. | |
high, and this is the one Jeremy Vine uses for his graphics. The | :11:48. | :11:51. | |
other thing that is massive is the turnout in the referendum, it is | :11:52. | :11:56. | |
enormous. It was around 85% of the electorate, that is 4 million ballot | :11:57. | :12:01. | |
papers. First to declare Clackmannanshire. No, 19,000. 19,000 | :12:02. | :12:14. | |
and 36. The first Noel of the night, and there were plenty more. -- the | :12:15. | :12:19. | |
first no vote. The better together campaigners were over the moon, like | :12:20. | :12:23. | |
Jim Murphy, who had campaigned in 100 different towns. I don't want to | :12:24. | :12:28. | |
sound schmaltzy, but it makes you think more of Scotland. It makes you | :12:29. | :12:38. | |
small tree. Yes, 194,779. Around five a.m., the Yes campaign | :12:39. | :12:40. | |
applauded as they won Scotland's biggest city, Glasgow. Dundee went | :12:41. | :12:47. | |
their way as well, but just for areas out of 32 opted for | :12:48. | :12:50. | |
independence. How many copies have you had? This is my second cup of | :12:51. | :12:55. | |
tea on the morning -- how many copies. He was enjoying the | :12:56. | :13:00. | |
refreshments on offer, but the yes campaigners were not in a happy | :13:01. | :13:05. | |
place. We are in the bowels of one of the parts of the British | :13:06. | :13:09. | |
establishment that, I've got to say, has probably done its job in this | :13:10. | :13:14. | |
referendum, because I think the BBC has been critical in shoring up the | :13:15. | :13:19. | |
establishment and have supported the no campaign as best as they could. | :13:20. | :13:24. | |
But there was no arguing with the numbers, and by sunrise, the BBC | :13:25. | :13:29. | |
called it. Scotland has voted no in this referendum on independence. The | :13:30. | :13:35. | |
result, in Fife, has taken the no campaign over the line and the | :13:36. | :13:38. | |
official result of this referendum is a no. There we go, on a screen | :13:39. | :13:45. | |
three stories high, Scotland has said no to independence. As soon as | :13:46. | :13:49. | |
the newsprint was driving north of the border, the focus shifted south | :13:50. | :13:54. | |
as the Prime Minister pledged more devolution for Scotland but only if | :13:55. | :13:58. | |
it happened everywhere else as well. Just as Scotland will vote | :13:59. | :14:00. | |
separately in the Scottish Parliament on their issues of tax, | :14:01. | :14:05. | |
spending on welfare, so to England, as well as Wales and Northern | :14:06. | :14:09. | |
Ireland, should be able to vote on these issues, and all this must take | :14:10. | :14:14. | |
place in tandem with and at the same pace as the settlement for Scotland. | :14:15. | :14:19. | |
It began to dawn on us all that we might end up doing this again. See | :14:20. | :14:28. | |
you for an English referendum soon? Northern Ireland. There could be | :14:29. | :14:31. | |
another one in Scotland. But not next weekend? Give me a break. There | :14:32. | :14:39. | |
was no break for Nick, because Alex Salmond came up with one last twist, | :14:40. | :14:43. | |
his resignation was as leader, my time is nearly over. But the | :14:44. | :14:49. | |
Scotland, the campaign continues, and the dream shall never die. So, | :14:50. | :14:56. | |
the referendum settled, the Constitution in flux, and a leader | :14:57. | :14:57. | |
gone. All in a night work. Alex Salmond is to stand down as | :14:58. | :15:08. | |
First Minister of Scotland. He shows no signs of going quietly. Last | :15:09. | :15:12. | |
night, I spoke to the SNP leader in Aberdeen and began by asking him if | :15:13. | :15:16. | |
it was always his intention to resign if he lost the referendum. I | :15:17. | :15:21. | |
certainly have thought about it, Andrew. But for most of the | :15:22. | :15:24. | |
referendum campaign I thought we were going to win. So, I was... | :15:25. | :15:30. | |
Yeah, maybe a few months back I considered it. But I only finally | :15:31. | :15:34. | |
made up my mind on Friday lunch time. Did you agonise over the | :15:35. | :15:42. | |
decision to stand down? I'm not really an agonising person. When you | :15:43. | :15:52. | |
get beaten in a referendum, you have to consider standing down as a real | :15:53. | :15:58. | |
possibility. Taking responsibility and politics has gone out of fashion | :15:59. | :16:01. | |
but there is an aspect, if you need a campaign, and I was the leader of | :16:02. | :16:06. | |
the Yes Campaign, and you don't win, you have to contemplate if you are | :16:07. | :16:10. | |
the best person to lead future political campaigns. In my | :16:11. | :16:13. | |
judgement, it was time for the SNP and the broader yes movement, the | :16:14. | :16:18. | |
National movement of Scotland, they would benefit from new leadership. | :16:19. | :16:23. | |
In your heart of hearts, through the campaign, as referendum on day | :16:24. | :16:26. | |
approached, you did think you were going to win? Yes, I did. I thought | :16:27. | :16:32. | |
for most of the last month of the campaign, we were in with a real | :16:33. | :16:40. | |
chance. In the last week I thought we had pulled ahead. I thought the | :16:41. | :16:43. | |
decisive aspect wasn't so much the fear mongering, the scaremongering, | :16:44. | :16:49. | |
the kitchen sink being thrown at Scotland by orchestration from | :16:50. | :16:52. | |
Downing Street, I thought the real thing was the pledge, the vow, the | :16:53. | :16:56. | |
offer of something else. A lot of people that had been moving across | :16:57. | :17:01. | |
to independence saw within that, a reason to say, well, we can get | :17:02. | :17:04. | |
something anyway without the perceived risks that were being | :17:05. | :17:12. | |
festooned upon them. You were only five points away from your dream. | :17:13. | :17:19. | |
You won Scotland's largest city. There is now the prospect of more | :17:20. | :17:23. | |
power. Why not stay and be an enhanced First Minister? Well, it is | :17:24. | :17:30. | |
a good phrase. I'm not going away, though. I'm still going to be part | :17:31. | :17:34. | |
of the political process. In Scotland, if people in Aberdeenshire | :17:35. | :17:38. | |
wish to keep electing me, that is what I will do. But I don't have to | :17:39. | :17:43. | |
be First Minister of Scotland, leader of the Yes Campaign, to see | :17:44. | :17:48. | |
that achieved. The SNP is a strong and powerful leadership team. There | :17:49. | :17:53. | |
are a number of people that would do a fantastic job as leader of the | :17:54. | :17:57. | |
party and First Minister. I've been leader of the party for the last 24 | :17:58. | :18:03. | |
years, I think it is time to give somebody else a shot. There are many | :18:04. | :18:07. | |
able-bodied people that will do that well. -- many able people that will | :18:08. | :18:10. | |
do that well. I'm still part of the national movement, arguing to take | :18:11. | :18:18. | |
this forward. I think you are right, the question, one of the irony is | :18:19. | :18:22. | |
developing so quickly after the referendum, it might be those that | :18:23. | :18:25. | |
lost on Thursday end up as the political winners and those that won | :18:26. | :18:31. | |
end up as the losers. When we met just for the vote, a couple of days | :18:32. | :18:36. | |
before the vote, you said to me that there was very little you would | :18:37. | :18:39. | |
change about the campaign strategy. Is that still your view? Yes. There | :18:40. | :18:46. | |
are one or two things, like any campaign, there is no such thing as | :18:47. | :18:52. | |
a pitcher campaign. I would refer not to dwell on such things. I will | :18:53. | :18:57. | |
leave of my book, which will be called 100 Days, coming out before | :18:58. | :19:01. | |
Christmas. Once you read that, I will probably reveal the things I | :19:02. | :19:05. | |
would have changed. Basically, broadly, this was an extraordinary | :19:06. | :19:09. | |
campaign. Not just a political campaign, but a campaign involving | :19:10. | :19:13. | |
the grassroots of Scotland in an energising, empowering way, the like | :19:14. | :19:17. | |
of which in on of us have witnessed. It was an extraordinary phenomenon | :19:18. | :19:21. | |
of grassroots campaigning, which carried the Yes Campaign so far, | :19:22. | :19:27. | |
almost to victory. If Rupert Murdoch put his Scottish Sun behind you, | :19:28. | :19:38. | |
would have that made the difference? If ifs and ands were pots and | :19:39. | :19:46. | |
pans... Why did he not? I would not say that, you have form with him | :19:47. | :19:50. | |
that I do not have. I'm not sure about that. I was very encouraged. | :19:51. | :19:56. | |
The coverage, not in the other papers, The Times, which was | :19:57. | :20:01. | |
extremely hostile to Scottish independence, but the coverage in | :20:02. | :20:05. | |
the Scottish Sun was fair, balanced and we certainly got a very fair | :20:06. | :20:14. | |
kick of the ball. In newspapers, I would settle for no editorial line | :20:15. | :20:18. | |
and just balanced coverage. We certainly got that from the Scottish | :20:19. | :20:21. | |
Sun and that was an encouragement. I think you saw from his tweets, | :20:22. | :20:27. | |
certainly in his heart he would have liked to have seen a move forward in | :20:28. | :20:37. | |
Scotland and I like that. He said if you lost, that was it, referendum | :20:38. | :20:42. | |
wise, for a generation, which he defined as about 20 years. Is that | :20:43. | :20:48. | |
still your view? Yes, it is. It has always been my view. It's a personal | :20:49. | :20:52. | |
view. There are always things that can change in politics. If the UK | :20:53. | :20:57. | |
moved out of the European Union, for example, that would be the sort of | :20:58. | :21:00. | |
circumstance. Some people would argue with Westminster parties, and | :21:01. | :21:04. | |
I'm actually not surprised that they are reneging on commitments, I am | :21:05. | :21:10. | |
just surprised by the speed they are doing it. They seem to be totally | :21:11. | :21:13. | |
shameless in these matters. You don't think they will meet the vow? | :21:14. | :21:19. | |
You don't think there will keep to their vow? They are not, for that | :21:20. | :21:23. | |
essential reason you saw developing on Friday. The Prime Minister wants | :21:24. | :21:28. | |
to link change in Scotland to change in England. He wants to do that | :21:29. | :21:31. | |
because he has difficulty in carrying his backbenchers on this | :21:32. | :21:36. | |
and they are under pressure from UKIP. The Labour leadership are | :21:37. | :21:39. | |
frightened of any changes in England which leave them without a majority | :21:40. | :21:42. | |
in the House of Commons on English matters. I would not call it an | :21:43. | :21:48. | |
irresistible force and immovable object, one is resistible and one is | :21:49. | :21:54. | |
movable. They are at loggerheads. The vow, I think, was something | :21:55. | :21:57. | |
cooked up in desperation for the last few days of the campaign. I | :21:58. | :21:59. | |
think everybody in Scotland now engines that. -- recognises that. It | :22:00. | :22:06. | |
was the people that were persuaded to vote no that word tricked, | :22:07. | :22:11. | |
effectively. They are the ones that are really angry. Ed Miliband and | :22:12. | :22:16. | |
David Cameron, if they are watching this, I would be more worried about | :22:17. | :22:23. | |
the anger of the no voters than the opinion of the Yes Vote on that | :22:24. | :22:30. | |
matter. If independence is on the back burner for now, what would you | :22:31. | :22:36. | |
advise your successor's strategy for the SNP to be? I would advise him or | :22:37. | :22:42. | |
her not to listen to advice from their predecessor. A new leader | :22:43. | :22:49. | |
brings forward a new strategy. I think this is, for the SNP, a very | :22:50. | :22:53. | |
favourable political time. There have been 5000 new members joined | :22:54. | :23:00. | |
since Thursday. That is about a 25% increase in the party membership in | :23:01. | :23:03. | |
the space of a few days. More than that, I think this is an opportunity | :23:04. | :23:15. | |
for the SNP. But my goal is the opportunity for Scotland. I would | :23:16. | :23:19. | |
repeat I am not retiring from politics. I'm standing down as First | :23:20. | :23:25. | |
Minister of Scotland. On Friday, coming back to the north-east of | :23:26. | :23:29. | |
Scotland, I passed through Dundee, which voted yes by a stud -- | :23:30. | :23:36. | |
substantial margin. There was a line of a song I couldn't get out of my | :23:37. | :23:40. | |
head, and old Jacobite song, rewritten by Robert Burns, the last | :23:41. | :23:48. | |
line is, so, tremble falls wakes, in the midst of your glee, you've not | :23:49. | :23:56. | |
seen the last of my bonnets and me. So you are staying a member of the | :23:57. | :23:59. | |
Scottish Parliament, shall we see you again in the House of Commons? | :24:00. | :24:04. | |
What does the future hold for you? Membership of Scottish Parliament is | :24:05. | :24:11. | |
dependent on the good folk of Aberdeenshire east. If they choose | :24:12. | :24:15. | |
to elect me, I will be delighted to serve. I've always loved being a | :24:16. | :24:20. | |
constituency member of Parliament, I have known some front line | :24:21. | :24:23. | |
politicians that regarded that as a chore. I'm not saying they didn't do | :24:24. | :24:27. | |
it properly, I am sure they did. But I love it. You get distilled wisdom | :24:28. | :24:33. | |
from being a constituency member of Parliament that helps you keep your | :24:34. | :24:36. | |
feet on the ground and have a good observation as to what matters to | :24:37. | :24:40. | |
people. I have no difficulty with being a constituent member of | :24:41. | :24:45. | |
Parliament. Can you promise me it will never be Lord Salmond? Yes! | :24:46. | :24:56. | |
Thanks for joining us. Great pleasure, thank you. Now, the | :24:57. | :25:04. | |
independence referendum is over, the next big electoral test is a general | :25:05. | :25:08. | |
election. It is just over seven months away. In a moment I will be | :25:09. | :25:14. | |
talking to Chuka Umunna, but what are the political views of the men | :25:15. | :25:18. | |
and women fighting to win seats for the Labour Party? The Sunday | :25:19. | :25:22. | |
Politics has commissioned an exclusive survey of the | :25:23. | :25:28. | |
Parliamentary candidates. Six out of seven Labour candidates | :25:29. | :25:30. | |
say that the level of public spending during their last period of | :25:31. | :25:35. | |
office was about right. 40% of them want a Labour government to raise | :25:36. | :25:39. | |
taxes to reduce the budget deficit. 18% favour cutting spending. On | :25:40. | :25:43. | |
immigration, just 15% think that the number coming to Britain is too | :25:44. | :25:49. | |
high. Only 7% say we generous to immigrants. Three in ten candidates | :25:50. | :25:52. | |
believe the party relationship with trade unions is not close enough. | :25:53. | :25:56. | |
Not that we spoke to think it is too close. Or than half of the | :25:57. | :26:02. | |
candidates say want to scrap the nuclear deterrent, Trident. Four in | :26:03. | :26:06. | |
five want to nationalise the railways. If they are after a change | :26:07. | :26:11. | |
of leader, Yvette Cooper was their preferred choice. Chuka Umunna came | :26:12. | :26:20. | |
in fourth. And he joins me now for the Sunday interview. | :26:21. | :26:24. | |
Why is Labour choosing so many left-wing candidates? I don't think | :26:25. | :26:31. | |
I accept the characterisation of candidates being left wing. I don't | :26:32. | :26:34. | |
think your viewers see politics in terms of what is left and right. I | :26:35. | :26:39. | |
think they see it in terms of what is right and wrong. Obviously, many | :26:40. | :26:43. | |
of the things we have been talking about, how we ensure that the next | :26:44. | :26:46. | |
generation can do better than the last, how we raise the wages of your | :26:47. | :26:49. | |
viewers, who are currently working very hard but not making a wage they | :26:50. | :26:54. | |
can live off, that is what they are talking about and that is what the | :26:55. | :26:58. | |
public will judge them on. But they want to raise taxes, they don't want | :26:59. | :27:02. | |
to cut public spending, they want to re-nationalise the railways, they | :27:03. | :27:04. | |
don't think there is too much immigration, they want to scrap | :27:05. | :27:08. | |
Trident. These are all positions clearly to the left of current party | :27:09. | :27:13. | |
policy. But that is your characterisation. If you look at our | :27:14. | :27:16. | |
policy to increase the top rate of tax to 50% for people earning over | :27:17. | :27:21. | |
?150,000, that is a central position. It is something that | :27:22. | :27:23. | |
enjoys the support of the majority of the public. Trident? If you talk | :27:24. | :27:32. | |
to the British public about immigration, yes, there are concerns | :27:33. | :27:35. | |
about the numbers coming in and out, yes people want to see integration, | :27:36. | :27:39. | |
yes, people want to see people putting a contribution before they | :27:40. | :27:42. | |
take out, the people recognise, if you look at our multicultural | :27:43. | :27:47. | |
nation, we have derived a lot of benefits from immigration. I don't | :27:48. | :27:50. | |
think your characterisation of those positions, that is your view... It's | :27:51. | :27:56. | |
not, it is their view. They are saying... You describe it... You | :27:57. | :28:02. | |
described those positions as left wing positions. I am saying to you | :28:03. | :28:05. | |
that I actually think a lot of those positions are centrist positions | :28:06. | :28:10. | |
that would enjoy the support of the majority of your viewers. I don't | :28:11. | :28:14. | |
think your viewers think the idea of the broadest shoulders bearing the | :28:15. | :28:18. | |
heaviest burden in forms of tax are going to see it as a way out, | :28:19. | :28:22. | |
radical principle. They want to scrap Trident, not party policy? It | :28:23. | :28:26. | |
isn't. I think that 73... Well, we will | :28:27. | :28:36. | |
have 400 Parliamentary candidates at the time of the next general | :28:37. | :28:40. | |
election, not including current MPs. This is 73 out of over 400 of them. | :28:41. | :28:45. | |
I think we also need to treat the survey with a bit of caution. They | :28:46. | :28:51. | |
are not representative? You are basically quoting the results of a | :28:52. | :28:54. | |
small percentage of our Parliamentary candidates. It's | :28:55. | :28:58. | |
pretty safe to say when you look at their views, they might be right or | :28:59. | :29:02. | |
wrong, that's not my point, it's fairly safe to say that new Labour | :29:03. | :29:07. | |
is dead? Again, I don't think people see things in terms of gold -- old | :29:08. | :29:15. | |
or new Labour. We are standing at a Labour Party. We are a great | :29:16. | :29:18. | |
country, but we have big challenges. We want to make sure that people can | :29:19. | :29:23. | |
achieve their dreams and aspirations in this country. Too many people are | :29:24. | :29:27. | |
not in that position. Too many people worry about the prospects of | :29:28. | :29:30. | |
their children. Too many people do not earn a wage they can live off. | :29:31. | :29:34. | |
Too many people are worried about the change. We have to make sure we | :29:35. | :29:37. | |
are giving people a stake in the future. That is a Labour thing, you | :29:38. | :29:41. | |
want to call it old or new come I don't care. It's a choice between | :29:42. | :29:44. | |
Labour and the Conservatives in terms of who runs the next | :29:45. | :29:55. | |
government. That one of your candidate we spoke to things that | :29:56. | :29:57. | |
the party's relationship with the unions is to close. 30% of them | :29:58. | :30:00. | |
think it should be closer. You have spoken to 73 out of 400 candidates. | :30:01. | :30:04. | |
Why should the others be any different? It's a fairly | :30:05. | :30:10. | |
representative Sample. Many people working on this set are the member | :30:11. | :30:14. | |
of the union, the National union of journalists. People that came here | :30:15. | :30:16. | |
to this Conference would have been brought here by trade union members. | :30:17. | :30:21. | |
Do you think the relationship should be closer? I think it is where it | :30:22. | :30:26. | |
should be. It should not be closer? I think that trade unions help | :30:27. | :30:30. | |
create wealth in our country. If you look at some other success stories | :30:31. | :30:35. | |
we are in the north-west, GM Vauxhall is there because you have | :30:36. | :30:40. | |
trade unions working in partnership with government and local employees | :30:41. | :30:44. | |
to make sure we kept producing cars. I'm not asking if unions are good or | :30:45. | :30:48. | |
bad, I'm asking if Labour should be closer. You are presupposing, by the | :30:49. | :30:52. | |
tone of your question, that our relationship is a problem. Let's | :30:53. | :30:59. | |
turn to the English question. Why do you need a constitutional | :31:00. | :31:03. | |
conversation where you have to discuss whether English people | :31:04. | :31:06. | |
voting on English matters is unfair? We want to give the regions | :31:07. | :31:10. | |
and cities in England more voice, but let's get it into perspective, | :31:11. | :31:14. | |
we have had a situation where the Scottish people, as desired buying | :31:15. | :31:22. | |
rich people, have to remain part of the UK -- by English people. What is | :31:23. | :31:27. | |
the answer to the question? I don't want to get to a situation where | :31:28. | :31:31. | |
people have voted for solidarity where you have a prime ministers | :31:32. | :31:33. | |
talking about dividing up the UK Parliament. Let me put this point | :31:34. | :31:39. | |
you. Most Scottish voters think it is unfair that Scottish MPs get to | :31:40. | :31:44. | |
vote on English matters. That comes out in Scottish polls. Why don't you | :31:45. | :31:48. | |
see it as unfair? If the Scots see it as unfair, why don't you? This is | :31:49. | :31:53. | |
an age-old conundrum that has been around for 100 years and it's not so | :31:54. | :31:56. | |
simple. You're talking about making a fundamental change to the British | :31:57. | :32:00. | |
constitution on a whim. It's not just an issue, in respect of | :32:01. | :32:06. | |
Scottish MPs. As a London MP, I can vote on matters relating to the | :32:07. | :32:11. | |
transport of England and transport is a devolved matter in London. In | :32:12. | :32:15. | |
Wales, there are a number of competencies that Welsh MPs can vote | :32:16. | :32:18. | |
on and they've been devolved to them. So with all of these different | :32:19. | :32:22. | |
votes, you will exclude different MPs? I think the solution is not | :32:23. | :32:26. | |
necessarily to obsess about what is happening between MPs in | :32:27. | :32:29. | |
Westminster. That turns people politics. We need to devolve more. I | :32:30. | :32:34. | |
think we should be giving the cities and regions of England more autonomy | :32:35. | :32:39. | |
in the way that we are doing in Scotland, but I've got to say, | :32:40. | :32:43. | |
Andrew, it's dishonourable and in bad faith for the Prime Minister to | :32:44. | :32:46. | |
now seek to link what he agreed before the referendum to this issue | :32:47. | :32:51. | |
of English votes for English MPs. That is totally dishonourable and in | :32:52. | :32:55. | |
bad faith. You have promised to devolve more tax powers to Scotland. | :32:56. | :32:59. | |
What would they be? This is being decided at the moment. I cannot give | :33:00. | :33:03. | |
you the exact detail of what the tax powers would be. Could you give us a | :33:04. | :33:08. | |
rough idea? There is a White Paper being produced before November and | :33:09. | :33:11. | |
there will be draft legislation put forward in January. Your leader has | :33:12. | :33:18. | |
vowed that this will happen. And you haven't got a policy? You can't tell | :33:19. | :33:21. | |
us what the tax powers will be? I can't tell you on this programme | :33:22. | :33:26. | |
right now. But we have accepted the principle on further devolution on | :33:27. | :33:29. | |
tax, spending on welfare and we will have further details in due course. | :33:30. | :33:33. | |
Your leader promised to maintain the Barnett Formula for the foreseeable | :33:34. | :33:38. | |
future. Why is that fair when it enshrines more per capita spending | :33:39. | :33:42. | |
for Scotland than it does for Wales, which is poorer, and more than many | :33:43. | :33:46. | |
of the poorer regions in England get? Why is that fair? We have said | :33:47. | :33:52. | |
that in terms of looking at go -- local government spending playing | :33:53. | :33:54. | |
out in this Parliament, we have looked at what the government has | :33:55. | :33:58. | |
done which is having already deprived communities having money | :33:59. | :34:01. | |
taken away from them and wealthier communities are getting more. We | :34:02. | :34:05. | |
accept that the Barnett Formula has worked well. How has it works well? | :34:06. | :34:11. | |
There is a cross parliamentary consensus as they don't know what to | :34:12. | :34:16. | |
do about it. Why has it works well, when Wales, clearly loses out? I'm | :34:17. | :34:23. | |
not sure by I accept that when you look at overall underspend -- | :34:24. | :34:25. | |
government spending. It is per capita spending in Scotland, which | :34:26. | :34:32. | |
is way ahead of per capita spending in Wales, but per capita incomes in | :34:33. | :34:35. | |
Scotland are way ahead of Wales. Why is that fair Labour politician? We | :34:36. | :34:41. | |
have said we want to have more equitable distribution. You haven't, | :34:42. | :34:45. | |
you have said you will keep the Barnett Formula. I'm not sure | :34:46. | :34:49. | |
necessarily punishing Scotland is the way to go. The way that this | :34:50. | :34:53. | |
debate is going, what message does it send to the Scottish people? I | :34:54. | :34:57. | |
want to be clear, I am delighted with the result we have got. The | :34:58. | :35:01. | |
unity and solidarity where maintaining across the nations of | :35:02. | :35:06. | |
the United Kingdom. All of this separatist talk, setting up | :35:07. | :35:08. | |
different nations of the UK against each other goes completely against | :35:09. | :35:12. | |
what we've all been campaigning for over the last two years, and we | :35:13. | :35:16. | |
shouldn't have any truck with it. Coming onto the announcement on the | :35:17. | :35:19. | |
minimum wage, you would increase it by ?1 50 to take it to ?8, which | :35:20. | :35:25. | |
would be over five years. That is all you are going to do over five | :35:26. | :35:29. | |
years. Have you worked out how much of this increase will be clawed back | :35:30. | :35:37. | |
in taxation and fewer benefits? Work has been done on it. How much? I | :35:38. | :35:43. | |
can't give you an exact figure. The policy pays for itself. The way we | :35:44. | :35:48. | |
have looked at this, we looked at the government figures, and if | :35:49. | :35:51. | |
people are earning more, they would therefore be paying more in income | :35:52. | :35:55. | |
tax and they will be receiving less in benefit and will pay out less in | :35:56. | :35:59. | |
tax credits, so we are confident that this will pay for itself. I'm | :36:00. | :36:03. | |
not asking about the pavement, I'm asking what it means for low paid | :36:04. | :36:08. | |
workers will stop they will get an extra 30p per hour -- about the | :36:09. | :36:12. | |
payment. How much of the 30p to they get to keep? In terms of what they | :36:13. | :36:17. | |
get in the first instance, somebody on the minimum wage now, with our | :36:18. | :36:22. | |
proposal, would get in the region of ?3000 a year more than they are at | :36:23. | :36:26. | |
the moment. That is before tax and benefits. How much do they keep? I | :36:27. | :36:35. | |
cannot give you an exact figure. Why don't you give me an exact figure if | :36:36. | :36:38. | |
you've done the modelling? We are talking about some of the lowest | :36:39. | :36:41. | |
paid people in the country, and I would suggest to you that going down | :36:42. | :36:44. | |
this route, they would face a marginal rate of tax of 50 or 60% | :36:45. | :36:51. | |
and they will not keep most of this increase you are talking about. I | :36:52. | :36:55. | |
don't accept your figures. But you haven't got any of your own. I just | :36:56. | :37:00. | |
don't have any in my head I can give you right now. Don't you think out | :37:01. | :37:05. | |
policies before you announce them? Of course we think our policies | :37:06. | :37:08. | |
before we announce them but we are confident people have more in their | :37:09. | :37:11. | |
pocket and will be better off with the changes proposed, and we are | :37:12. | :37:14. | |
also seeking to incentivise employers to pay a living wage as | :37:15. | :37:18. | |
well. At the end of the day, as I said, the economy is recovering, | :37:19. | :37:22. | |
great, but we know, at the moment, it's still not delivering for a huge | :37:23. | :37:26. | |
number of your viewers and we're determined to do something about it. | :37:27. | :37:29. | |
The status quo is not an option. And even joining me. Twice in three | :37:30. | :37:33. | |
days. You can't have too much of a good thing. I am mad. He said that, | :37:34. | :37:36. | |
not me. It's just gone 11.35, you're | :37:37. | :37:39. | |
watching the Sunday Politics. We say goodbye to viewers in Scotland | :37:40. | :37:41. | |
who leave us now for Coming up here in twenty minutes, | :37:42. | :37:44. | |
we'll be joined by John Prescott to talk about the challenge facing | :37:45. | :37:49. | |
Labour as their conference starts First though, | :37:50. | :37:51. | |
the Sunday Politics where you are. First though, | :37:52. | :00:58. | |
the Conservative mayor's policy. No more time I'm afraid. Andrew, back | :00:59. | :00:59. | |
to you. Welcome back the to Labour | :01:00. | :01:07. | |
conference, where we're joined by the latest hot new stand-up | :01:08. | :01:09. | |
comedian on the Manchester circuit. I speak of course of former Deputy | :01:10. | :01:13. | |
Prime Minister John Prescott. In between giving tub-thumping | :01:14. | :01:18. | |
speeches to rally the party faithful this week, | :01:19. | :01:20. | |
he's appearing at the Comedy Store. He was also of course the man | :01:21. | :01:23. | |
behind the last attempt to solve Our political panel is with me as | :01:24. | :01:36. | |
well. John, we have got Scottish votes for Scottish laws, and more | :01:37. | :01:39. | |
Scottish votes for Scottish laws, why not English votes for English | :01:40. | :01:44. | |
laws? That's an English parliament in a major constitutional change and | :01:45. | :01:48. | |
that is what has started. I certainly don't agree with that. I | :01:49. | :01:52. | |
campaign for powers to be given to the regions. When I first tested it | :01:53. | :01:56. | |
in the Northeast, I lost. Why? Because they said they were not the | :01:57. | :01:59. | |
same powers you are giving to Scotland. So, basically, we must do | :02:00. | :02:05. | |
that, decentralised, not just with a Westminster Parliament. As you know, | :02:06. | :02:11. | |
in 32 years I produce the alternative. You've kept that for 32 | :02:12. | :02:17. | |
years? I took it off my shelf and everybody was talking about it now, | :02:18. | :02:20. | |
but they weren't in 1982. This was my five plan. 200 meetings all | :02:21. | :02:26. | |
around the country -- five-year plan. You wrote this morning, not 35 | :02:27. | :02:32. | |
years ago, that this was a plot to turn Westminster into a Tory | :02:33. | :02:36. | |
dominated English parliament. But if that is how England had voted, it's | :02:37. | :02:42. | |
not a plot, it's democracy. You can get reform in a more federal | :02:43. | :02:46. | |
structure, and even English parliament does fit into the federal | :02:47. | :02:48. | |
structure and that is what the Liberals say, but you need a fairer | :02:49. | :02:53. | |
representation. It might be quite radical, and we could get rid of the | :02:54. | :02:57. | |
Lord's, and have representation in the region there. It can't be done | :02:58. | :03:02. | |
in two weeks. Alex Salmond, he's assuming he has been sold out, and | :03:03. | :03:07. | |
it was less than a week ago they remain the announcement. We have to | :03:08. | :03:12. | |
get it carried out will stop but don't connect it to the English | :03:13. | :03:15. | |
parliament that fixes it in their favour. It may be pretty low | :03:16. | :03:20. | |
politics from David Cameron to come up with something that was not in | :03:21. | :03:27. | |
the vowel -- a bow on the front page of the daily record, but if they do | :03:28. | :03:30. | |
not agree with what he said at the time of the general election, he | :03:31. | :03:33. | |
will say two in which voters, if you want real protection in England, | :03:34. | :03:37. | |
vote Conservative, and if you want Scottish MPs deciding on your level | :03:38. | :03:41. | |
of taxation, vote Labour. He is scared to death of UKIP may have | :03:42. | :03:46. | |
been saying it for a while. In the constitutional changes have to see | :03:47. | :03:49. | |
what is fair and equitable, the same with the Barnett fallen -- formula. | :03:50. | :03:54. | |
But what you have to do is get a fair system. It takes time to | :03:55. | :03:58. | |
discuss it. I was doing a 32 years ago and nobody wanted to know. We | :03:59. | :04:02. | |
had better start a debate, and don't mixed up the constitutional type of | :04:03. | :04:06. | |
English parliament with what we are promising in Scotland. It is about | :04:07. | :04:12. | |
trust and politics. So the turnout of the north-east regional assembly | :04:13. | :04:16. | |
and they voted against it. The turnout that the police and crime | :04:17. | :04:21. | |
commissioners was low. How'd you get people interested in the process and | :04:22. | :04:24. | |
it doesn't feel like a conversation in smoky rooms and you go back to | :04:25. | :04:27. | |
British people and tell them what you decided? If you look at the | :04:28. | :04:32. | |
turnout in Scotland whether they were interested in, now it is | :04:33. | :04:36. | |
phenomenally interesting. It is about real power, having real | :04:37. | :04:38. | |
influence. What they said to me in the north-east, they said we know | :04:39. | :04:42. | |
you have an idea for devolution and you will give us assemblies but it | :04:43. | :04:46. | |
doesn't have the power of Scotland, but now we are talking about | :04:47. | :04:50. | |
equity, similar distribution of power and similar resources. The | :04:51. | :04:53. | |
English people are entitled to that. They have been robbed of it for too | :04:54. | :04:59. | |
long. Labour has long struggled with what it should do over devolving | :05:00. | :05:02. | |
power to the regions and you came up with regional assemblies. Ed | :05:03. | :05:06. | |
Miliband has a different idea of city regions. Aren't they the same | :05:07. | :05:10. | |
idea of yours but without a democratic accountability? Can we | :05:11. | :05:14. | |
really trust the greater region of Manchester or Birmingham to deliver | :05:15. | :05:17. | |
if there is not the same kind of democratic link with the people? I | :05:18. | :05:24. | |
live in whole, and it stops on the boundary of the Pennines -- the city | :05:25. | :05:28. | |
of Hull. We have city regions from Labour because I failed in the | :05:29. | :05:31. | |
north-east to get the assemblies in, and now we have to look at those | :05:32. | :05:36. | |
options. Do you work through city regions? Mainly in the north, I | :05:37. | :05:40. | |
might say. Even the federal structure they talk about my be in | :05:41. | :05:43. | |
the North or Midlands with Birmingham, but there are a number | :05:44. | :05:47. | |
of options and that is where I believe that what the White Paper | :05:48. | :05:50. | |
should do is to put those options in. Instead of having to put them | :05:51. | :05:55. | |
together, state what you want to do in the English regions. Leave it to | :05:56. | :05:58. | |
the legislation, which is what will happen with the Scottish, and once | :05:59. | :06:02. | |
you've agreed it, you do it after. You have to start the radical debate | :06:03. | :06:07. | |
about giving the English regions, not centralised in London, but | :06:08. | :06:12. | |
decentralised. Do you need to have a separate English parliament? | :06:13. | :06:14. | |
Wouldn't it just satisfy the English if you simply said to MPs, when it's | :06:15. | :06:20. | |
in English matter in the House of Commons, stop interfering? I would | :06:21. | :06:24. | |
disagree with that. I would say put the option in the White Paper. The | :06:25. | :06:29. | |
White Paper seems to be talking about Scotland. If you don't put the | :06:30. | :06:32. | |
commitments to what you want to do with the English regions, people | :06:33. | :06:37. | |
might say I'm not supporting that. Put the framework in the White | :06:38. | :06:41. | |
Paper, but a different timetable. Devolution in this country has been | :06:42. | :06:44. | |
to a different timetable, whether it's Wales, Northern Ireland. Start | :06:45. | :06:48. | |
looking fundamentally at it and the Labour Party should be leading the | :06:49. | :06:56. | |
debate. Let's come the no campaign lost Glasgow. The cradle of British | :06:57. | :07:00. | |
socialism. -- let's come to something that happened with the | :07:01. | :07:03. | |
referendum as the no campaign lost Glasgow. Is it a sign that the | :07:04. | :07:07. | |
Labour Party are finding it hard to what -- hold on to their traditional | :07:08. | :07:13. | |
working class vote question mark its different in Manchester. They would | :07:14. | :07:15. | |
say it is a message about decentralisation. If we change the | :07:16. | :07:25. | |
message a bit maybe. We have been thinking that now it is that either | :07:26. | :07:28. | |
the Labour Party to recognise it is not the old message and old areas | :07:29. | :07:33. | |
that will win it. I remember covering the 1997 referendum in | :07:34. | :07:37. | |
Scotland and you gave a tub thumping speech in a big hall in Hamilton and | :07:38. | :07:41. | |
you really connected. Obviously it was a different referendum because | :07:42. | :07:44. | |
that was about a parliament, not independence and Alex Salmond was on | :07:45. | :07:49. | |
your side, but you, and Ingush MP, an English minister, connected to | :07:50. | :07:53. | |
the core Labour voters in a way that Ed Miliband is failing to do -- an | :07:54. | :08:01. | |
English MP. You make a fair point. In the big rally, I had to point out | :08:02. | :08:06. | |
I was Welsh. Enough of this. Get on with it. What I was saying there was | :08:07. | :08:12. | |
that I supported you, as I did for 30 odd years when Labour MPs were | :08:13. | :08:17. | |
against any thinker Scotland. I support you, but I expect you to | :08:18. | :08:20. | |
come in with your Scottish MPs and make sure the English get their | :08:21. | :08:24. | |
share of the powers and resources and that is what that speech was | :08:25. | :08:28. | |
about, and by God, it's as relevant today as it was then. I haven't got | :08:29. | :08:33. | |
any Scottish MPs, I live in Knightsbridge. Did you get the vote? | :08:34. | :08:41. | |
No. What would you have done? I can't tell you. You would have voted | :08:42. | :08:48. | |
yes, come on. I'm interested. What do you want to hear from the speech | :08:49. | :08:55. | |
by Ed Miliband? People are wondering about where Labour stands. There are | :08:56. | :09:00. | |
many issues we have flown around, and we've done the discussion just | :09:01. | :09:06. | |
now. What he has got to do where he started off on the minimum wage. You | :09:07. | :09:10. | |
are trying to deal with those left behind. Those are the bottom. That | :09:11. | :09:14. | |
is the Labour message. The National Health Service is our creation and | :09:15. | :09:18. | |
we have to say it will be saved. If you can save all of these bankers | :09:19. | :09:21. | |
with all the money and say you haven't got the money for the NHS, | :09:22. | :09:25. | |
say where we stand. That will be the priority. The third one, housing. I | :09:26. | :09:30. | |
have had a revolutionary idea that you can buy a house without a | :09:31. | :09:34. | |
deposit and without the interest or paying the stamp duty, and you buy | :09:35. | :09:39. | |
it by rent. The government gives ?150 billion guaranteed housing for | :09:40. | :09:44. | |
up to 600,000. Get down to ordinary people who can use their rent to buy | :09:45. | :09:47. | |
the house. It's happening in the north-east. Why are they not | :09:48. | :09:51. | |
listening to you? You have said more to connect with ordinary people in | :09:52. | :09:54. | |
three minutes than we will probably hear in an hour. I've been telling | :09:55. | :09:59. | |
them, made, and we have a commission coming out. People don't want | :10:00. | :10:04. | |
commissions, they want action. I say, I know what we do, housing, | :10:05. | :10:09. | |
health, the people. That is our language. That is why we are Labour. | :10:10. | :10:14. | |
That a lot of people run away. I think in Glasgow, they wondered | :10:15. | :10:17. | |
about that. If you turn up on the same three platforms, and I know | :10:18. | :10:21. | |
it's a critical thing to say, they think in Scotland it is a coalition. | :10:22. | :10:25. | |
I don't like coalitions. It looks like a coalition, didn't it? Maybe | :10:26. | :10:30. | |
it was saved because Rupert Murdoch started the The Times about the | :10:31. | :10:34. | |
polls and he couldn't even get the sun to say that they wanted. We | :10:35. | :10:41. | |
haven't got time. I wondered how long it would take is to get to | :10:42. | :10:45. | |
repot Murdoch. You beat the record. -- to Rupert Murdoch. Labour is | :10:46. | :10:50. | |
quite behind on the economy, and people are looking at Labour, trying | :10:51. | :10:54. | |
to work out if they can trust you to the stewards of the economy given | :10:55. | :11:00. | |
2010. Under Labour 's plans there is 20 billion of cuts to make in the | :11:01. | :11:03. | |
next Parliament. Will we hear anything about that? It is about the | :11:04. | :11:10. | |
proportion of debt to GDP. I know it sounds historic, but our debt when | :11:11. | :11:15. | |
we came in in 1997 was a proportion of GDP, and you must know this, and | :11:16. | :11:19. | |
that was less than Thatcher's. Why did we get done on debt? You guys | :11:20. | :11:26. | |
run around saying a lot about it, but the fact is it was worse under | :11:27. | :11:30. | |
Thatcher. Thatcher is now seen as a hero. If you look at the debt, it is | :11:31. | :11:36. | |
still a problem. Gordon Brown did an awful lot to solve those problems, | :11:37. | :11:40. | |
but they were still left with us. What we have to have is a sensible | :11:41. | :11:44. | |
discussion like we had on devolution and now we are talking about | :11:45. | :11:47. | |
finances. Let's look at the public sector debt and the price we pay. We | :11:48. | :11:52. | |
need to be putting the record straight. The problem is they tell | :11:53. | :11:55. | |
me, John, we have to look to the future not the past. We are getting | :11:56. | :11:59. | |
screwed on the past and we have to change it and perhaps Gordon Brown | :12:00. | :12:02. | |
coming in could do something. Finishing on the future, when we did | :12:03. | :12:09. | |
a poll of the Labour candidates, you were watching on the big screen, | :12:10. | :12:14. | |
when it came up that their favourite to succeed Ed Miliband was Yvette | :12:15. | :12:20. | |
Cooper, why did you shout no! That is alive. -- alive. -- that is not | :12:21. | :12:28. | |
true. I know resistance is not strong. What did that mean? | :12:29. | :12:38. | |
You can't get away with anything at a Conference, John. I was dropping | :12:39. | :12:47. | |
comments them to pick up everywhere, I do not wear -- nowhere they got | :12:48. | :12:53. | |
that one from. Good to have you back. Round of applause for former | :12:54. | :12:59. | |
Deputy Prime Minister. That's it for today. Don't applaud them, they are | :13:00. | :13:00. | |
useless. my guests. I'll be back here at | :13:01. | :13:02. | |
Labour conference for the Daily 11:30am tomorrow when we'll bring | :13:03. | :13:07. | |
you live coverage of the speech by We're here all week, and next Sunday | :13:08. | :13:11. | |
you can find us in Birmingham for Remember if it's Sunday, | :13:12. | :13:17. | |
it's the Sunday Politics. | :13:18. | :13:24. |