08/10/2013 Taro Naw


08/10/2013

Similar Content

Browse content similar to 08/10/2013. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!

Transcript


LineFromTo

Subtitles

0:00:000:00:02

Subtitles

0:00:000:00:02

Four years ago, this man told Taro Naw...

0:00:030:00:06

..he had been falsely prosecuted by one of Britain's main institutions.

0:00:070:00:11

He spent three years in prison.

0:00:110:00:13

If I'd taken that money, I'd have had a better life than I've had.

0:00:140:00:17

But I can tell you now, hand on heart, I didn't take it.

0:00:170:00:21

This led to a Taro Naw investigation which revealed...

0:00:210:00:25

..that there have been dozens of similar cases across Britain.

0:00:250:00:28

Tonight: Evidence and new cases...

0:00:290:00:31

..and the story about how one man took his campaign...

0:00:310:00:34

..to the corridors of power.

0:00:350:00:36

The institution that prosecuted him has now changed its views.

0:00:360:00:40

It's a disgrace. Not only my case, but these other people too.

0:00:400:00:44

We can reveal tonight that the strain caused one of those people...

0:00:440:00:48

..to try and kill himself a fortnight ago.

0:00:480:00:51

Noel Thomas has devoted much of his life to the Post Office.

0:01:200:01:24

He spent 40 years serving the public and says it was a pleasure.

0:01:240:01:29

It gave me a great deal of pleasure, to be honest.

0:01:290:01:32

You got the chance to discuss everything.

0:01:320:01:35

You got to hear local stories and funny stories...

0:01:350:01:38

..whether you wanted to or not!

0:01:380:01:41

He was a postman before becoming a subpostmaster...

0:01:430:01:46

..and a local councillor for the village of Gaerwen on Anglesey.

0:01:460:01:50

It was a pleasure to represent Gaerwen.

0:01:510:01:54

I hope I fought hard for Gaerwen at all times.

0:01:540:01:58

It was a pleasure to be on Anglesey Council.

0:01:580:02:01

But the last few years have been hard.

0:02:010:02:04

He lost his job and as a result...

0:02:040:02:06

..the old post office he used to run has closed.

0:02:060:02:10

His world fell apart when his employer prosecuted him...

0:02:120:02:16

..claiming that £48,000 was missing from his post office.

0:02:160:02:19

Overnight, he went from being a highly respected councillor...

0:02:200:02:24

..to being a criminal locked up in prison.

0:02:240:02:28

The family was left behind to face the problem.

0:02:280:02:31

They had to face people and it was difficult.

0:02:310:02:35

To be honest, my wife found it very difficult to deal with.

0:02:350:02:40

But I had family and friends and we got through it.

0:02:410:02:46

From the very beginning, he's insisted...

0:02:470:02:50

..that the Post Office's Horizon computer system was responsible...

0:02:500:02:54

..for the inconsistencies.

0:02:540:02:56

Fujitsu designed the system and it was introduced...

0:02:560:02:59

..to British post offices from 1995 onwards.

0:02:590:03:03

It arrived in Gaerwen in the year 2000.

0:03:030:03:06

By 2005, there was a problem.

0:03:060:03:09

Losing money and losing money.

0:03:090:03:12

And we didn't know where it was going.

0:03:120:03:15

You'd lose between £2,000 and £3,000 a month.

0:03:150:03:20

It would just disappear from the account?

0:03:200:03:22

Yes.

0:03:220:03:24

He phoned the Post Office helpline time and time again...

0:03:240:03:28

..and was told not to worry...

0:03:280:03:30

..and that everything would settle in time.

0:03:300:03:33

He felt he had to sign that the balance was correct...

0:03:330:03:36

..at the end of every day...

0:03:360:03:38

..or he wouldn't be able to open the shop the following day.

0:03:380:03:42

The problems continued and in the end...

0:03:440:03:46

..the accountants came in.

0:03:460:03:48

He was charged with stealing £48,000.

0:03:480:03:51

He was also charged with false accounting...

0:03:510:03:53

..on the basis that he agreed that the accounts were correct...

0:03:540:03:57

..when they weren't.

0:03:570:03:59

In court, the Post Office dropped the charge of theft...

0:03:590:04:02

..but on legal advice, Noel Thomas pleaded guilty to false accounting.

0:04:030:04:07

He spent three months in prison and was declared bankrupt.

0:04:070:04:11

The biggest mistake I made was signing the papers.

0:04:120:04:14

If I hadn't, I would not have been charged with false accountancy.

0:04:150:04:18

If I'd have closed the shop, it would have been better.

0:04:180:04:22

We all had to try and carry on.

0:04:220:04:24

But we didn't want to carry on because we knew where he was.

0:04:240:04:29

And it was... It was... Sorry.

0:04:290:04:33

It was a difficult job, to be honest with you...

0:04:330:04:36

..because we knew he wasn't supposed to be there.

0:04:360:04:40

They didn't realise at the time that others had been through...

0:04:400:04:43

..the same thing until a letter arrived from England.

0:04:440:04:47

Oh, wow! It was an incredible feeling.

0:04:490:04:53

We were all sitting around a table here, going...

0:04:530:04:57

.."Oh, my gosh! We're not the only ones going through this.

0:04:570:05:01

"There are others going through it."

0:05:010:05:03

That's when Taro Naw started investigating further...

0:05:050:05:08

..and discovered that there was a pattern.

0:05:090:05:11

Other people's lives had been destroyed...

0:05:110:05:14

..and cases went back over a decade.

0:05:140:05:16

Subpostmasters who'd been prosecuted...

0:05:170:05:19

..for keeping false accounts under the exact same circumstances.

0:05:190:05:23

We talked to dozens across Britain who'd been made bankrupt...

0:05:250:05:29

..who'd lost their homes and were suffering from depression..

0:05:300:05:33

..and they all thought they were alone.

0:05:330:05:36

The system itself didn't seem to be working as it normally would work.

0:05:360:05:40

We kept getting screens that would freeze and various other things.

0:05:410:05:45

We made substantial calls to the Horizon helpline.

0:05:450:05:48

They know, I'm absolutely certain, they know how flawed the system is.

0:05:480:05:53

They'll do anything to keep a lid on it...

0:05:530:05:56

..regardless of how many lives they ruin along the way.

0:05:560:05:59

Hello. I'm Jo.

0:05:590:06:02

How are you?

0:06:010:06:02

Noel Thomas and his daughter travelled to Hampshire...

0:06:020:06:06

..to meet one of them.

0:06:060:06:08

I didn't have any confidence in the helpdesk.

0:06:080:06:11

I didn't really know where to turn for help.

0:06:110:06:14

Although I knew the monies weren't there...

0:06:140:06:17

..I knew I hadn't taken them.

0:06:170:06:19

You couldn't open up the next day unless you agreed the figures...

0:06:190:06:23

..which I then did.

0:06:230:06:25

I paid the price for it eventually.

0:06:260:06:28

She was also found guilty of keeping false accounts...

0:06:300:06:34

..after £36,000 disappeared from the system.

0:06:350:06:38

We are only scratching the surface.

0:06:380:06:40

It's happened everywhere across the country, hasn't it?

0:06:410:06:44

This man wrote to Noel Thomas a month earlier...

0:06:440:06:48

..after doing further research into the case of the subpostmaster...

0:06:480:06:52

..in his village.

0:06:520:06:54

I found a whole lot of people, very similar to Jo.

0:06:540:06:58

Middle-aged, middle-class, never put a foot wrong.

0:06:580:07:02

Perfect characters.

0:07:020:07:03

Often had been subpostmasters for a long time.

0:07:040:07:07

All of whom suddenly turned into these criminals.

0:07:070:07:11

It didn't make sense to me.

0:07:110:07:13

By the time the original programme was broadcast...

0:07:130:07:16

..we'd spoken with 31 subpostmasters who said the same.

0:07:160:07:21

And the politicians were starting to respond.

0:07:210:07:24

There's something going on...

0:07:250:07:27

..and the Post Office has to answer the questions...

0:07:280:07:31

..being asked by these people.

0:07:310:07:33

But the Post Office denied that there was anything wrong...

0:07:340:07:37

..and claimed the Horizon system was dependable.

0:07:380:07:41

It refused to be interviewed four years ago...

0:07:410:07:45

..but in the meantime, the battle for justice intensified.

0:07:450:07:49

People saw, not in the village, but people we knew on Anglesey...

0:07:520:07:57

..the map you showed and there were so many people on that...

0:07:570:08:02

..who had had the same problem...

0:08:020:08:05

..and it wasn't just them who were frightened.

0:08:050:08:09

We'd found a few but it was an eye-opener.

0:08:090:08:13

That started driving us forward even more.

0:08:130:08:16

After years of trying to persuade people he was innocent...

0:08:170:08:21

..her father felt hopeful once more.

0:08:210:08:24

It raised my spirits and the family's spirits, to be honest.

0:08:240:08:28

And the friends who stood by me through the trouble.

0:08:280:08:33

There were responses from subpostmasters across Britain...

0:08:350:08:39

..that we didn't know about before the programme.

0:08:390:08:43

Each one was glad the story had been made public...

0:08:430:08:46

..and had believed they were the only ones in trouble.

0:08:460:08:49

They contacted each other and slowly, more evidence emerged...

0:08:490:08:55

..and more stories about lives that had been destroyed.

0:08:550:08:58

And we received these - evidence in black and white.

0:09:000:09:03

Something that's very rare because once the Post Office...

0:09:040:09:07

..arrests someone, it claims all the paperwork.

0:09:070:09:10

These are receipts from a post office in South Wales...

0:09:110:09:14

..and according to the subpostmaster who sent them...

0:09:140:09:18

..to us, they prove that there's something wrong with Horizon.

0:09:180:09:22

Inconsistencies emerged after a customer paid to send a parcel...

0:09:230:09:27

..from a post office in Carmarthenshire in August 2009.

0:09:270:09:30

Notice the time. 10.52am.

0:09:310:09:34

Every payment has its own number.

0:09:360:09:38

There's a black circle around the number in this case...

0:09:380:09:41

..on the customer's receipt.

0:09:410:09:44

The customer paid £9.31 and the parcel label shows the date...

0:09:440:09:50

..how much was paid and once again, the unique number for the payment.

0:09:500:09:56

However, that's not on the records of the subpostmaster.

0:09:560:10:00

They go from a payment just before 10.45am..

0:10:000:10:04

..straight to the next at 10.59am.

0:10:040:10:06

There's no record of a payment at 10.52am.

0:10:060:10:11

So there would be £9.31 too much in the till at the end of the day...

0:10:110:10:15

..and nothing to show where it came from.

0:10:160:10:20

It appears that the system can delete records of payments.

0:10:200:10:23

According to subpostmasters, deficiencies like this...

0:10:230:10:27

..could have led to losses of thousands of pounds.

0:10:270:10:30

After realising that so many were saying the same thing...

0:10:310:10:34

..the subpostmasters established a campaign group...

0:10:340:10:38

..in order to get justice - Justice For Subpostmasters Alliance.

0:10:380:10:42

During the last four years, they've been meeting regularly...

0:10:420:10:46

..and they've now persuaded the Post Office to listen to them.

0:10:460:10:50

Julien, how are you?

0:10:510:10:52

This man is a prominent member of the JFSA.

0:10:530:10:56

He's a former postmaster from Redditch in the Midlands.

0:10:570:11:00

He contacted Taro Naw after seeing the original programme.

0:11:000:11:03

I was told I was the only one.

0:11:030:11:07

Then when your first programme highlighted the issue...

0:11:070:11:12

..I discovered I wasn't alone.

0:11:120:11:14

There were other people in the same situation as I was.

0:11:140:11:17

We decided we would create...

0:11:180:11:19

..the Justice For Subpostmasters Alliance...

0:11:200:11:23

..because, individually, you cannot fight Post Office.

0:11:230:11:29

He went through the courts and lost his livelihood.

0:11:310:11:34

Things that could not be explained...

0:11:340:11:36

..were happening with the Horizon system.

0:11:360:11:39

The last thing I did on the Saturday...

0:11:390:11:42

..before closing the post office was count the cash...

0:11:420:11:46

..declare it on the system, you push a button...

0:11:460:11:50

..and that prints you off a receipt and tells you what you've declared.

0:11:500:11:54

And you put that in with your weekly paperwork...

0:11:540:11:58

..ready for the balance the coming Wednesday.

0:11:580:12:01

On the Monday, I go into the post office, switch the system on...

0:12:010:12:06

..print that report off, having done no transactions on it...

0:12:080:12:13

..and it was different to what I'd prepared on the Saturday.

0:12:130:12:19

This continued.

0:12:200:12:22

There were imbalances most weeks...

0:12:220:12:26

..which is quite acceptable, but they started to get bigger.

0:12:260:12:30

I raised this question with my line manager...

0:12:310:12:35

..who visited on a regular basis.

0:12:350:12:38

He said, "Don't worry about it.

0:12:380:12:41

"The system will put itself right."

0:12:410:12:44

In the end, the Post Office prosecuted him...

0:12:460:12:49

..and like Noel Thomas, he pleaded guilty to keeping false accounts.

0:12:490:12:53

He had to pay the Post Office almost £30,000...

0:12:530:12:57

..and complete 200 hours of community service.

0:12:570:13:00

The Post Office hasn't backed down.

0:13:040:13:06

A subpostmistress on Anglesey has also been prosecuted.

0:13:060:13:10

She's contacted the JFSA.

0:13:100:13:12

There's one down the road from here, to be honest.

0:13:120:13:15

My heart goes out to her.

0:13:150:13:18

She's lost everything as well.

0:13:180:13:22

Taro Naw has talked to Lorraine Williams from Llanddaniel.

0:13:230:13:27

She couldn't be interviewed because she is still on probation.

0:13:270:13:31

However, there's a sign that things could change...

0:13:340:13:38

..and what started as one man's lonely battle has snowballed.

0:13:380:13:43

Following Taro Naw's investigation, pressure from the JFSA...

0:13:430:13:47

..support from MPs and wider attention in the media...

0:13:480:13:51

..the 31 subpostmasters we found in 2009...

0:13:510:13:55

..has now multiplied to almost 200...

0:13:550:13:58

..and Taro Naw is still discovering new cases.

0:13:580:14:02

Up until now I thought I was the only idiot...

0:14:030:14:06

..who'd put himself in a situation to lose so much money.

0:14:060:14:10

After years of denying anything was wrong with the system...

0:14:110:14:15

..the Post Office had to make a dramatic statement over the summer.

0:14:150:14:19

Someone, somewhere knows something's not right.

0:14:200:14:24

They've sent people like me to jail.

0:14:410:14:45

They've taken all our livelihoods.

0:14:450:14:48

But other people, they've destroyed their lives...

0:14:480:14:53

..and in my mind that's much worse than going to jail.

0:14:530:14:56

Noel Thomas is one of several subpostmasters...

0:14:580:15:00

..who've been prosecuted by the Post Office...

0:15:010:15:03

..on charges of stealing or false accounting.

0:15:030:15:06

He says he was wrongly jailed and he's battling to save...

0:15:060:15:10

..his good name.

0:15:100:15:11

A difficult time was returning to his community after leaving jail.

0:15:120:15:16

That first step out of the door...

0:15:160:15:18

..and saying that first 'hello' or 'how are you?' to people.

0:15:190:15:23

Were you going to get a 'hello' in response or would...

0:15:230:15:27

..somebody turn their back?

0:15:280:15:30

What was the lowest point while you were in prison?

0:15:310:15:34

Arriving in Walton, I think.

0:15:340:15:38

He was in his cell for 23 hours a day.

0:15:380:15:41

The time dragged terribly there.

0:15:420:15:45

There were very few people of my age in prison.

0:15:450:15:49

The majority were young people.

0:15:490:15:51

Ordinary people.

0:15:510:15:53

And they could be pretty rough.

0:15:530:15:56

How much of a support has your family been to you?

0:15:560:15:59

A huge support.

0:15:590:16:01

The children...

0:16:020:16:04

..my sister-in-law...

0:16:040:16:06

..my wife's cousins. They've all been very good.

0:16:070:16:10

Earlier this year, the Justice for Subpostmasters Alliance...

0:16:140:16:19

..persuaded the Post Office to employ Second Sight...

0:16:190:16:22

..a forensic accounting company, to investigate their claims.

0:16:220:16:26

47 former subpostmasters presented their cases to the company.

0:16:260:16:29

This was a turning point in their case for justice.

0:16:290:16:32

This is the first independent investigation to be held.

0:16:330:16:36

Thank you very much, Mr Speaker.

0:16:360:16:38

Yesterday evening, an interim report into alleged problems...

0:16:380:16:42

..with the Post Office Horizon computer system was published.

0:16:430:16:47

The report gave some unexpected news.

0:16:470:16:49

After investigating four of the 47 cases...

0:16:490:16:52

...up until now, they haven't found any systemic problems with Horizon.

0:16:530:16:57

But they have come across two defects that led to problems...

0:16:570:17:02

..in 76 post offices.

0:17:020:17:04

It became clear that the Post Office was aware of the defects...

0:17:040:17:08

..before Second Sight began their investigation.

0:17:080:17:12

After years of denying anything was wrong with Horizon...

0:17:120:17:15

..the Post Office has adopted a different stance.

0:17:150:17:18

The very least Post Office Ltd should be doing...

0:17:190:17:21

..is setting up a legal fund to review each of these cases...

0:17:220:17:25

..because many will have pleaded guilty to false accounting...

0:17:250:17:29

..given the situation with the system and legal advice received.

0:17:290:17:33

I think the House is very concerned about ...

0:17:340:17:36

..a very small number of people who've had their lives ruined.

0:17:370:17:41

It's no good to say, "Oh, they can appeal."

0:17:410:17:43

We need proactive action from the Government.

0:17:440:17:47

I suggest she talks to the Attorney General to see...

0:17:470:17:50

..if he can look into these cases.

0:17:510:17:53

That's what you want.

0:17:520:17:53

We're halfway there.

0:17:540:17:55

We'll see what happens.

0:17:560:17:58

The report also found the Post Office hadn't done enough...

0:17:590:18:02

..to help the subpostmasters.

0:18:030:18:05

As it can prosecute without contacting the police or CPS...

0:18:050:18:09

..their accountants concentrated on getting the money back...

0:18:100:18:13

..and prosecuting than tackling the real problem.

0:18:130:18:16

The Post Office are only one of two organizations...

0:18:170:18:20

..that I know of that can take people to court...

0:18:200:18:24

..without using the Crown Prosecution Service.

0:18:260:18:29

If the majority of these cases, I'm sure, were presented to the CPS...

0:18:290:18:34

..they would throw them out.

0:18:340:18:37

Post Office are unable to supply the evidence...

0:18:370:18:41

..to back up their prosecution.

0:18:420:18:44

The Post Office has admitted that software defects have affected...

0:18:480:18:52

..a computer system that's been the cause of a prolonged dispute...

0:18:520:18:56

..with some of its subpostmasters.

0:18:560:18:58

I fell asleep in front of the TV recently.

0:18:580:19:02

Suddenly I woke up and there was something on the news...

0:19:020:19:06

..saying others were in the same hole I'd been in.

0:19:060:19:09

This man from Mid Wales knew nothing about the other cases...

0:19:090:19:13

..until this summer.

0:19:130:19:15

Although he wants to remain anonymous, his story is familiar.

0:19:150:19:19

When he realized the system said £17,000 was missing...

0:19:190:19:24

..he called the accountants and the police immediately.

0:19:240:19:27

The auditors looked at me threateningly...

0:19:280:19:30

..as if I'd committed a crime.

0:19:300:19:32

They weren't interested in finding out if anything was wrong...

0:19:320:19:36

..with the computer, or offer me any help.

0:19:360:19:39

The bottom line was, nobody from the Post Office believed...

0:19:390:19:42

..the system could be wrong.

0:19:430:19:45

The blame was placed squarely on the subpostmaster.

0:19:450:19:48

In order to avoid going to court he gave the Post Office £17,000...

0:19:480:19:53

..of his life savings, closed the shop...

0:19:530:19:56

..and never worked for them again.

0:19:560:19:58

But a month ago, after contacting us, he made another discovery...

0:19:580:20:02

..that surprised him.

0:20:020:20:04

I've found out that the person who'd been there before me...

0:20:040:20:08

..had lost almost the same amount and the Post Office knew about it.

0:20:080:20:12

She'd had to repay it. There's a pattern here.

0:20:120:20:15

If you'd signed off that the accounts were right...

0:20:150:20:19

..you'd be in trouble.

0:20:190:20:21

I'd be in jail.

0:20:210:20:23

The Post Office would have been happy to say...

0:20:230:20:26

..fraud and false accounting.

0:20:260:20:28

You can't sign something's right if it isn't right.

0:20:280:20:32

Second Sight will present a further report to Parliament...

0:20:330:20:37

..during the next few weeks.

0:20:380:20:39

Meanwhile, a mediation panel...

0:20:400:20:42

..will consider every individual case.

0:20:420:20:45

The mediation panel has been set up by JFSA...

0:20:460:20:50

..Second Sight, who are the forensic accountants...

0:20:500:20:54

..doing the investigation on behalf of Post Office...

0:20:540:20:57

..our forensic accountant, the MPs and Post Office.

0:20:580:21:03

How that will work is...

0:21:030:21:06

..that all of us that are involved in this process...

0:21:060:21:09

..will have to apply to this working party...

0:21:100:21:13

..for our case to be registered with them.

0:21:140:21:17

This isn't the end of it.

0:21:170:21:19

There's quite a long way to go yet.

0:21:190:21:22

But we're hopeful. One step at a time.

0:21:220:21:25

This is the biggest hope for justice and compensation.

0:21:250:21:29

Noel Thomas has brought his mediation pack...

0:21:290:21:32

..to solicitor, Eilian Williams, to ensure he's filled it in properly.

0:21:320:21:36

Because the Post Office has offered you...

0:21:370:21:39

..this type of review...

0:21:400:21:43

..you haven't got much to lose.

0:21:430:21:45

The closing date to present your case before the panel...

0:21:460:21:50

..is 18th November.

0:21:500:21:52

Taro 9 understands that nearly 200 subpostmasters...

0:21:520:21:55

..have applied for a pack.

0:21:560:21:57

From the nature of the document...

0:21:570:22:00

..there is a promise made by the Post Office...

0:22:000:22:03

..to try and talk to those affected...

0:22:030:22:06

..to respond to their complaints in a clear manner.

0:22:060:22:10

But it's clear they're avoiding the legal wrangling...

0:22:100:22:13

..that could arise following the accusations and suggestions...

0:22:140:22:17

..the system is defective.

0:22:180:22:19

The David and Goliath battle is timeless.

0:22:200:22:23

One subpostmaster who's facing prosecution attempted suicide...

0:22:230:22:27

..two weeks ago.

0:22:270:22:29

I've had an email from the subpostmaster's family about this..

0:22:300:22:33

..awful incident.

0:22:330:22:36

And I know how deep the anguish is...

0:22:360:22:39

..that has been caused to a lot of subpostmasters across the country..

0:22:400:22:44

..by what's happened in many of these case.

0:22:440:22:47

Although he welcomes the Post Office's commitment...

0:22:470:22:51

..into further investigations, he is disappointed...

0:22:510:22:55

..with some of the findings in Second Sight's report.

0:22:550:22:58

The Post Office did know there were bugs in the system...

0:22:580:23:01

..and I was very surprised to hear they knew that...

0:23:020:23:05

..and hadn't told me that or told other MPs that.

0:23:050:23:08

One question still angers Noel Thomas.

0:23:090:23:13

If the postmasters hadn't been stealing, where's the money gone?

0:23:130:23:17

They don't know more than me where it's gone.

0:23:180:23:21

I'd like to know where it's gone.

0:23:210:23:24

Noel Thomas has been asking this for nearly a decade.

0:23:240:23:28

It's been four years since Taro 9 and MPs started asking the same.

0:23:280:23:33

We asked for an interview with the Post Office back in July...

0:23:330:23:37

..but like last time, they refused.

0:23:380:23:40

Then a few days ago they reconsidered...

0:23:400:23:43

..but it was too late for this programme.

0:23:430:23:46

They have responded to many questions raised by Taro 9.

0:23:460:23:51

They said they were continuing with about 50 prosecutions a year.

0:23:510:23:56

They say it's a small number of the 11,800...

0:23:560:23:59

..post office branches they have throughout Britain.

0:23:590:24:03

If there are any doubts any crime has been committed...

0:24:030:24:08

..they have a duty to prosecute.

0:24:080:24:10

They added that an independent investigation had failed...

0:24:110:24:14

..to find any systemic defects with Horizon.

0:24:140:24:17

They didn't mention they'd told investigators...

0:24:170:24:20

..there bugs in the system that affected branches.

0:24:210:24:25

The Post Office stressed they had introduced further improvements...

0:24:250:24:29

..to their training programme and support...

0:24:290:24:32

..and they'd set up a mediation plan with the JFSA.

0:24:320:24:36

What I'd like, more than anything, is to get the money back...

0:24:360:24:39

..and for them to admit they're wrong, for them to apologize.

0:24:400:24:43

That's what I'd like.

0:24:440:24:45

Firstly, we want our names cleared.

0:24:450:24:49

Because we actually didn't do anything wrong.

0:24:500:24:54

We've not stolen a penny from Post Office.

0:24:540:24:57

Two - we all want our lives back.

0:24:580:25:02

Because over the last five years, in my case...

0:25:020:25:05

..the affect the actions Post Office have taken on us...

0:25:050:25:10

..has been horrendous.

0:25:100:25:12

Absolutely horrendous.

0:25:120:25:15

Finally, we want recognition of what has happened to us...

0:25:160:25:22

..by Post Office.

0:25:220:25:24

And that can only be achieved...

0:25:240:25:26

..by means of a financial settlement.

0:25:270:25:30

We are all, one million per cent, behind my father.

0:25:300:25:33

Not one us turned around, even for a second...

0:25:330:25:37

..to say he's guilty.

0:25:370:25:39

He is no longer a voice in the wilderness.

0:25:400:25:43

Noel Thomas is one of dozens who want more than money.

0:25:440:25:47

Why are you still fighting?

0:25:470:25:50

My self-respect.

0:25:500:25:52

To retain my good name, hopefully.

0:25:530:25:56

We're halfway there.

0:25:560:25:58

S4C subtitles by Red Bee Media Ltd

0:26:190:26:22

.

0:26:220:26:22

Download Subtitles

SRT

ASS