Browse content similar to 11/09/2011. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Hello all. It's day for thinking back, hard | :00:38. | :00:41. | |
day for those who have lost people they loved on 9/11, and in the | :00:41. | :00:46. | |
attacks and wars that followed, tens or hundreds of thousands of | :00:46. | :00:50. | |
people dead. It is also a time to think about the future, that was | :00:50. | :00:55. | |
taken from us, by Osama Bin Laden. A world by still had robust civil | :00:55. | :01:00. | |
liberties in the west, and the Twin Towers, but also, perhaps, had | :01:00. | :01:05. | |
Saddam Hussein's Iraq, and the Afghanistan of the Taliban. A world | :01:05. | :01:10. | |
where names like Abu Ghraib, and Guantanamo Bay meant nothing much. | :01:10. | :01:15. | |
Where passengers in airports never had to take off shoes or belts or | :01:15. | :01:19. | |
be patted down. And a world in which where we argued about the | :01:19. | :01:22. | |
legacies of George Bush and Tony Blair, we were thinking about | :01:22. | :01:27. | |
mangled syntax, or Northern Ireland. We will never know, but it was | :01:27. | :01:31. | |
probably a gentler, rather more innocent future that was stolen | :01:31. | :01:36. | |
from us all ten years ago. There is a lot of very good writing | :01:36. | :01:42. | |
about it in today's papers. Looking through it are the former US State | :01:42. | :01:50. | |
Department official, and Charles Kennedy a vocal critic on the war | :01:50. | :01:53. | |
in Iraq. In a few hours President Obama will lead Americans in a | :01:53. | :01:57. | |
ceremony at Ground Zero in New York. Here, one major poll suggests most | :01:57. | :02:03. | |
people think there is still a war on terror going on. And they tend | :02:03. | :02:08. | |
to think it is being won. Among my guests the boss of the company that | :02:08. | :02:14. | |
lost most of its employees, 658 people, and only survived himself | :02:14. | :02:20. | |
by a strange quirk of fate, Howard Lutnick's strange tale. And US | :02:20. | :02:23. | |
Ambassador to the UK, Louise Susman, also in New York on that terrible | :02:23. | :02:27. | |
morning. We will talk about some other | :02:27. | :02:29. | |
British dilemmas as well, an announcement that people in work | :02:29. | :02:33. | |
are going to be working for longer, and tough new plans for people who | :02:33. | :02:37. | |
aren't in work. All of that with the Work and Pensions Secretary, | :02:37. | :02:42. | |
Iain Duncan Smith, whose hopes for radical change are challenged, of | :02:43. | :02:47. | |
course, by the pretty grim state of the economy. Also the main topic at | :02:47. | :02:51. | |
the TUC conference which starts in London. I will talk to Len | :02:51. | :02:56. | |
McCluskey, Eider of the biggest union, Unite, who is warning about | :02:56. | :02:59. | |
every conceivable form of action against the Government, from | :02:59. | :03:04. | |
strikes to civil disobedience. We will end, despite all of that, on a | :03:04. | :03:09. | |
note of harmony. I'm joined by the great British soprano, Susan | :03:09. | :03:18. | |
Bullock, fresh from the Proms, who will be performing for us. | :03:18. | :03:22. | |
Many different voices. First the news. | :03:23. | :03:26. | |
Good morning, America is preparing to mark the tenth anniversary of | :03:26. | :03:32. | |
the 9/11 attacks which killed nearly 3,000 people in New York, | :03:32. | :03:34. | |
Washington and Pennsylvania. An official memorial to those who died | :03:34. | :03:39. | |
will be unveiled at the site of the World Trade Center, whose Twin | :03:39. | :03:44. | |
Towers were destroyed in the attacks. The ceremony will take | :03:44. | :03:47. | |
place amid tight security. We joined people gathering there | :03:47. | :03:52. | |
late last night. As darkness fell on Ground Zero, | :03:52. | :03:56. | |
they kept coming. New Yorkers, tourists, those in uniform. | :03:56. | :04:00. | |
All drawn here by the almost magnetic pull of this place. | :04:00. | :04:06. | |
Shining above them, ten years on, Twin Towers of light. It is amazing, | :04:06. | :04:11. | |
now that ten years later, there is a building that is erected, we are | :04:11. | :04:15. | |
celebrating that we have been strong, and you know, people are | :04:15. | :04:20. | |
very emotional. It is tough, yeah, it really is. But America, you | :04:20. | :04:24. | |
can't break the Spirit of America. Today's anniversary will play out | :04:24. | :04:29. | |
amid the tightest of security. Following an intelligence tip, | :04:29. | :04:32. | |
which suggested Al-Qaeda intends to attack New York or Washington, | :04:32. | :04:35. | |
using a vehicle bomb. The authorities still don't know | :04:35. | :04:45. | |
:04:45. | :04:45. | ||
whether a plot is active. The ceremonies are going ahead, in | :04:45. | :04:49. | |
Pennsylvania yesterday, two former Presidents led tributes to the | :04:49. | :04:54. | |
passengers and crew of United Flight 93, who brought down their | :04:54. | :05:01. | |
plain here, after overpouring four hijackers. One of the lessons of | :05:01. | :05:07. | |
9/11 is evil is real and so is courage. What happened above this | :05:07. | :05:10. | |
Pennsylvania field ranks among the most courageous acts in American | :05:10. | :05:14. | |
history. From start to finish, the September | :05:14. | :05:19. | |
11th attacks lasted less than two hours, planes used as missiles, | :05:19. | :05:24. | |
almost 3,000 lives lost. The effects of what happened here are | :05:24. | :05:29. | |
still reverberating, both in America, and a world away, in Iraq, | :05:29. | :05:33. | |
and Afghanistan. This cemetery was covered in debris, | :05:33. | :05:38. | |
some places six inches to a foot, it was an alien landscape in many | :05:38. | :05:43. | |
respects. Ten years ago, Lyndon Harris was a priest at the | :05:43. | :05:47. | |
ebusiness cop pal chapel facing Ground Zero. As then, now the | :05:47. | :05:53. | |
church has become a focus for those seeking meaning. I believe that | :05:53. | :05:57. | |
love wins, hope and resurrection, I know that some how in the mercy of | :05:57. | :06:03. | |
God, even this tragedy is being healed. So the giant cranes | :06:03. | :06:07. | |
rebuilding Ground Zero, have fallen silent as America pauses. Later | :06:07. | :06:13. | |
President Obama will join a simple ceremony beside two reflecting | :06:13. | :06:18. | |
pools, built where the towers once stood. | :06:18. | :06:22. | |
Remembrances services will also be held around the UK today, to mark | :06:22. | :06:27. | |
the tenth anniversary of 9/11, wreaths will be laid at the | :06:27. | :06:31. | |
memorial garden in Grosvenor Square near the US Embassy in central | :06:31. | :06:35. | |
London. Service also also take place at St Paul's Cathedral, in | :06:35. | :06:39. | |
Birmingham Truro and Exeter. The leader of Libya's National | :06:39. | :06:43. | |
Transitional Council, Abdul Jalil, is in Tripoli for the first time, | :06:44. | :06:47. | |
since forces opposed to Colonel Gaddafi, took over the capital last | :06:47. | :06:51. | |
month. Speaking after his arrival last night, he told supporters they | :06:51. | :06:56. | |
should direct all their energies towards liberating the remaining | :06:56. | :06:59. | |
Gaddafi strongholds. The leaders of Israel and Egypt have pledged their | :06:59. | :07:03. | |
support for the peace treaty between the two countries, despite | :07:03. | :07:06. | |
the attack on the Israeli Embassy in Cairo. Three people died after | :07:06. | :07:11. | |
protestors stormed the building on Friday. The Egyptian Government has | :07:11. | :07:15. | |
accused activists of damaging the country's international reputation. | :07:15. | :07:20. | |
It says, they will be tried in emergency courts. | :07:20. | :07:23. | |
Here, on the eve of the annual Trades Union Congress, the leader | :07:23. | :07:27. | |
of Britain's biggest union has called on a union movement to | :07:27. | :07:29. | |
mobilise against the Government's programme of cuts. | :07:29. | :07:33. | |
Len McCluskey, the general secretary of Unite, told the | :07:33. | :07:38. | |
Observer newspaper, that every form of protest should be considered, | :07:38. | :07:41. | |
including non-violent civil disobedience and co-ordinated | :07:41. | :07:51. | |
strike action. That is all from me. Front pages today. I think the most | :07:51. | :07:57. | |
striking 9/11 front page is the Independent on Sunday. Advertise | :07:57. | :08:02. | |
ago very good essay by its distinguished journalist, Rupert | :08:02. | :08:06. | |
Cornwall. Lots of white space, it is called The Lost Decade. The | :08:06. | :08:10. | |
Observer has strong stories today, a lot of papers with strong stories, | :08:10. | :08:17. | |
it is a good news day. That is the pensions story, saying that Steve | :08:17. | :08:21. | |
Webb says, the Pensions Minister, says we will be told to work | :08:21. | :08:25. | |
considerably longer earlier than we realised. I will ask Iain Duncan | :08:25. | :08:28. | |
Smith about that, and we have the Len McCluskey interview. The Sunday | :08:28. | :08:32. | |
Times, one of many papers picking up more and more stories about the | :08:32. | :08:36. | |
embarrassing and some would say, shameful connections between | :08:36. | :08:40. | |
British politicians and Gaddafi's regime. Lots and lots of stuff | :08:40. | :08:46. | |
coming out on bits of paper in Tripoli about that. The top tax 50% | :08:46. | :08:49. | |
raises nothing, says the fiscal studies institute. We will be | :08:49. | :08:54. | |
talking about that too later on. Finally, the Sunday Telegraph, | :08:54. | :08:58. | |
interesting story, the secret life of the if anythingive Lib Dem donor. | :08:58. | :09:01. | |
You might remember Michael Brown, who gave the Liberal Democrats huge | :09:01. | :09:05. | |
amounts of money, and turned out to be almost certainly a serious | :09:05. | :09:11. | |
fraudster, skipped, disappeared, and has now been tracked down to a | :09:11. | :09:14. | |
Caribbean hideaway by the Sunday Telegraph. Many things to discuss | :09:14. | :09:19. | |
today. Thank you for coming in. | :09:19. | :09:25. | |
Colleen, as a former official yourself, as well as a leading | :09:25. | :09:29. | |
figure in Republicans Abroad, an important day for all Americans | :09:30. | :09:32. | |
today. Very much so, and the papers are, | :09:32. | :09:36. | |
as you would guess, filled with many stories about 9/11. The | :09:36. | :09:40. | |
Telegraph has a six-page special, and just when you think you are | :09:40. | :09:44. | |
immune to it all, you read another story about a missed meeting that | :09:44. | :09:47. | |
saved their life, or a phone call that put them in touch with their | :09:47. | :09:55. | |
loved one who they would never hear from again. Very strong stories, | :09:55. | :09:58. | |
and coverage of what will be happening in Washington, New York | :09:58. | :10:04. | |
and fill Delphiia. On the other side, we have Fukiama, who talk | :10:04. | :10:07. | |
about putting it into perspective, and 9/11 will not be what we | :10:07. | :10:13. | |
remember from this decade, it will be the rise of China. Then there is | :10:13. | :10:17. | |
another story that modesty prevents me from mention, but Charles? | :10:17. | :10:26. | |
That's my cue. Colleen has an article, if nothing else it sparks | :10:26. | :10:33. | |
debate, diplomatically, shall we say b the legacy, the aftermath of | :10:34. | :10:36. | |
the terrible decade for New York and elsewhere in the states. Which | :10:36. | :10:46. | |
:10:46. | :10:47. | ||
is that led on to the war in Iraq, and all the things we occupy | :10:47. | :10:50. | |
ourself at. We come from radically different perspectives. You were | :10:50. | :10:55. | |
one of the earliest and most vocal opponents of Tony Blair's war plans | :10:55. | :11:00. | |
at that time? I remember getting criticised, the events of ten years | :11:00. | :11:05. | |
ago, you mentioned at the Lib Dem conference this year, and ten years | :11:05. | :11:11. | |
it was the same thing. We forget the dreadful international impact | :11:11. | :11:15. | |
of what took place for a while. For several days we were sitting there, | :11:15. | :11:20. | |
Tony Blair and myself were sitting there and we didn't know if we | :11:20. | :11:25. | |
could have a party conference season. You didn't know if there | :11:25. | :11:30. | |
would be a kas said of attacks, you didn't know if this was one after | :11:30. | :11:34. | |
another? Yes, you are talking about George Bush's strategy, there was | :11:34. | :11:39. | |
an excellent programme on during the week on the Geographic Channel, | :11:39. | :11:42. | |
he's accounting in a very impressive way the events of the | :11:42. | :11:45. | |
day. He said when he heard of the news of the first plane, terrible | :11:45. | :11:51. | |
accident, second plane, terrorism, third plane, we're at war, then, of | :11:51. | :11:54. | |
course everything changed. Although you might not go entirely with the | :11:54. | :12:00. | |
headline that is there. No war is good. "it was a good war ". | :12:00. | :12:04. | |
Nonetheless, you would argue what came out of it, the Iraq war? | :12:04. | :12:07. | |
was the catalyst for the Arab Spring, that once people in the | :12:07. | :12:10. | |
Middle East, we look at Iraq through different i, but for the | :12:10. | :12:14. | |
Middle East, here was a henchman who had an iron grip on the region | :12:14. | :12:18. | |
forever, when they saw him crumble and fall, it was just that first | :12:18. | :12:24. | |
crack in the edifice, that empowered others to say, you know, | :12:24. | :12:27. | |
there is actually an alternative vision for the Middle East. That | :12:27. | :12:31. | |
was Bush's freedom agenda, which people scoffed at at the time, but | :12:32. | :12:34. | |
the fact is it is happening now, and we never believed it would | :12:34. | :12:39. | |
happen. There are many other factors including the use of | :12:39. | :12:45. | |
internet and cellphone, but you can see along the way, to the changes | :12:45. | :12:50. | |
in Kuwait, Saudi Arabia and Egyptian, fledgling reforms that | :12:50. | :12:58. | |
leads up to this point. The images are astonishing, but you need the | :12:58. | :13:01. | |
perspective that good writing in the newspaper gives you. | :13:01. | :13:07. | |
Let's turn to politics, the Liberal Democrats conference coming up, and | :13:07. | :13:13. | |
helpfully we have the faut lines provided here between David Cameron | :13:13. | :13:17. | |
and Nick Clegg? Another iconic photograph, the first coalition | :13:17. | :13:22. | |
spring of 15 months ago, the two of them doing that initial joint press | :13:22. | :13:25. | |
conference in Downing Street. And of course a lot of water has gone | :13:25. | :13:31. | |
under the bridge in the 15 months. Just as this is a day to stand | :13:31. | :13:35. | |
shoulder-to-shoulder with all Americans. The media focuses how | :13:35. | :13:39. | |
much are these two guys standing shoulder-to-shoulder now, after the | :13:39. | :13:42. | |
experience of Government and some of the very tough times they have | :13:42. | :13:46. | |
been through. What is interesting about this, about this kind of | :13:46. | :13:50. | |
analysis, our opposite numbers in continental politics in Europe, for | :13:50. | :13:54. | |
whom coalition is the norm, rather than the exception, they all say | :13:54. | :13:58. | |
one of the things you have to deal with and get used to is that the | :13:58. | :14:02. | |
press are going to be almost exclusively focused on every | :14:02. | :14:04. | |
persuceptible difference between you and the other party of | :14:04. | :14:07. | |
coalition, and in fact, I personally think the more | :14:07. | :14:11. | |
interesting thing, both from a Lib Dem and Conservative and an | :14:11. | :14:14. | |
observer's point of view is actually the differences within the | :14:14. | :14:16. | |
parties, not just across the coalition. | :14:17. | :14:21. | |
The press don't have to work very hard to find the differences, as | :14:21. | :14:25. | |
you would acknowledge. I wonder on that, which is the most important | :14:25. | :14:28. | |
current argument between the coalition partners for you? Given | :14:28. | :14:38. | |
that it is the "economy stupid", to quote a former American Pastoral | :14:38. | :14:43. | |
President, I think the economics won't go away, and all the other | :14:43. | :14:49. | |
policies are very dependant on how that goes. | :14:49. | :14:53. | |
In the Mail on Sunday there is an article suggesting that bankers | :14:53. | :14:59. | |
should be paid much less and so on. But to a certain extent, is a lot | :14:59. | :15:03. | |
of this just window dressing, in other words Nick Clegg and the | :15:03. | :15:06. | |
Conservative ministers? This is the Machiavellian interpretation. | :15:06. | :15:09. | |
get together and say there is a party conference, let's get a few | :15:09. | :15:13. | |
row, get it into the papers, David Cameron says yes, Nick I know you | :15:13. | :15:18. | |
have to say this, and Nick says, David Cameron I know you have to | :15:18. | :15:21. | |
have something Euro-sceptic. Once the conference season is over, it | :15:21. | :15:26. | |
is back to business as usual? strategy. I'm not in the loophole | :15:26. | :15:30. | |
of those kind of discussions. is high-level plotting. I think it | :15:30. | :15:33. | |
is well understood, it is adult politics, afterall, in the run up | :15:33. | :15:36. | |
to the conference season you have to think of your own constituency, | :15:36. | :15:40. | |
your own party membership. I think there has been a genuine shift | :15:40. | :15:46. | |
within the Lib Dems, post the electoral setbacks of May, that we | :15:46. | :15:48. | |
have to emphasise more our own identity. I think that is coming | :15:49. | :15:52. | |
through. As a working entity, I have thought from day one, and | :15:52. | :15:56. | |
everybody knows I was, shall we say, at the sceptical end of this | :15:56. | :15:59. | |
coalition, I didn't vote for it being formed, but I have always | :15:59. | :16:04. | |
felt it would see the course, I haven't changed my view. Let's turn | :16:04. | :16:07. | |
to another story running in different papers, the Sunday Times | :16:07. | :16:12. | |
has front page, Cameron told to get tough with Russia, almost the same | :16:12. | :16:20. | |
in the Observers? There are - Observer? Several papers are | :16:20. | :16:24. | |
covering this. When Cameron goes to Moscow he will be there today and | :16:24. | :16:28. | |
tomorrow, he has to communicate the porpbts of human rights, | :16:28. | :16:31. | |
particularly in - importance of human rights, particularly in lieu | :16:31. | :16:37. | |
of the businessmen, lawyers, journalists killed, missing and | :16:37. | :16:42. | |
attacked. This in particular talk about the Russian who was revealing | :16:42. | :16:48. | |
the largest tax fraud in the history of Russia, Magnitzki, he | :16:48. | :16:53. | |
was tortured and killed, and yet Britain has not said anything about | :16:53. | :16:58. | |
this. Secretary of State Clinton has put in place, I think, it is 60 | :16:58. | :17:02. | |
travel bans, frozen assets and so the call from all of the British | :17:02. | :17:08. | |
papers are that Cameron needs to get tough, and it is not just on | :17:08. | :17:18. | |
:17:18. | :17:20. | ||
him but it is on Litvenko, and others. We have the BRICK countries | :17:20. | :17:28. | |
and now we have the BIC countries, because of human rights violations. | :17:28. | :17:33. | |
This in the east is a very profound story, I happen to be one of the | :17:33. | :17:36. | |
all-party representatives now from the British parliament on the | :17:36. | :17:41. | |
Council of Europe, just last week we had a meeting where | :17:41. | :17:43. | |
representatives of freedom associations and campaigner about | :17:43. | :17:48. | |
this particular case were meeting with the council to take it up on | :17:48. | :17:53. | |
the human rights basis, Senator McCain is one of those supporting | :17:53. | :17:57. | |
in Washington, it is a very big story. Just as the Middle East is | :17:57. | :18:01. | |
moving towards democracy, Russia falling back like this is not. | :18:01. | :18:06. | |
contact with Putin in the two, which is an amazing revelation. | :18:06. | :18:09. | |
helpful story, no doubt from the Sunday Telegraph for your party. | :18:09. | :18:19. | |
:18:19. | :18:19. | ||
Talking about amazing revelations. Michael Brown in Puerto Plata in | :18:19. | :18:25. | |
the Dominican Republic. We don't have an extradition freety. There | :18:25. | :18:29. | |
is lots of pick - Treaty. There is lots of pictures of his home life | :18:29. | :18:35. | |
and the high life and all that. Your party has money from this man | :18:35. | :18:40. | |
and hasn't handed it back? It was long since spent. I was leader when | :18:40. | :18:44. | |
the donation was given. Although they were very careful, we were | :18:44. | :18:48. | |
always very careful to keep a distance, to keep a buffer zone | :18:49. | :18:53. | |
over donations. Between the leader and the person racing money? I knew | :18:53. | :18:56. | |
Michael Brown, I had a number of dealings with them. The important | :18:56. | :19:01. | |
point p that is I know, or I was told, and I don't doubt the | :19:01. | :19:06. | |
voracity of this at all, that not only were all responsible checking | :19:06. | :19:10. | |
taken before his company made this donation, but indeed, they went the | :19:10. | :19:17. | |
extra mile with the authorities in making checks. The Electoral | :19:17. | :19:22. | |
Commission certainly accepted that, because the he behaved OK. I notice | :19:22. | :19:26. | |
there is a reference in the report to the fact they may be revisiting | :19:26. | :19:29. | |
the issue, it doesn't say any more than that, I don't know what that | :19:29. | :19:35. | |
means, we will have to wait and see. Public funding of political parties, | :19:35. | :19:41. | |
that goes down like a lead balloon. Even time, we have Tim Montgomery | :19:42. | :19:45. | |
on the fate of the Government in George Osborne's hands, and that | :19:45. | :19:50. | |
porn born needs to face down the Liberal Democrats - Osborne needs | :19:50. | :19:58. | |
to face down the the opposition, he has the deficit reduction strategy | :19:58. | :20:01. | |
down, but he doesn't have a strategy for emergency economy | :20:02. | :20:05. | |
growth, that is what needs to be focused on. How about that. That is | :20:06. | :20:11. | |
interesting, plan A plus, not plan B, but plan A plus. | :20:11. | :20:15. | |
There is an interesting little story in the Sunday Times. Which we | :20:15. | :20:20. | |
will finish on Charles about the statues, all around Britain are | :20:20. | :20:26. | |
being nicked? And manhole covers and bus shelters. I was first | :20:26. | :20:29. | |
alerted to this in Scotland, there was a story, a special thing has | :20:29. | :20:35. | |
been put out by the borders police in Scotland, manhole covers being | :20:35. | :20:40. | |
stolen. Such is the demand for raw material for the economies running | :20:40. | :20:47. | |
away at a rate of knots, that theft has gone up in all kind of unlikely | :20:47. | :20:54. | |
areas, where you can get bronze and copper. Quite a lot of train delays | :20:54. | :20:58. | |
is a lot of copper being stoleen from the railway system, no mam now | :20:58. | :21:08. | |
:21:08. | :21:08. | ||
are going to be replaced with plastic replicas the statue.S. | :21:08. | :21:14. | |
replicas of the statue. Not the railway lines now. | :21:14. | :21:21. | |
It is beginning to feel autumnal despite temperatures. Good morning | :21:21. | :21:31. | |
:21:31. | :21:40. | ||
it is set to turn windy for the A curl of cloud in Scotland Turn we | :21:40. | :21:44. | |
will across Cumbria. Showers heaviest in the morning, | :21:44. | :21:48. | |
lighter in the afternoon, feeling cool particularly in the breeze for | :21:48. | :21:52. | |
most of us, temperatures in the teens. Overnight the first batch of | :21:52. | :22:01. | |
rain will fade away, dry for a time. Picking up in the far North West, | :22:01. | :22:04. | |
mild for all temperatures in double figures. The real concern for the | :22:05. | :22:08. | |
strength of wind tomorrow will be for the northern half of the UK, | :22:08. | :22:11. | |
Scotland, Northern Ireland into the far north of northern England, | :22:11. | :22:17. | |
gusts of wind of 60-70, damage and disruption is certainly a | :22:17. | :22:21. | |
possibility. Windy for all, but particularly so for the northern | :22:21. | :22:25. | |
half of the UK, there will be rain as well from Northern Ireland, | :22:25. | :22:29. | |
pushing northwards into Scotland. Despite the temperatures in the | :22:29. | :22:32. | |
high teen, feeling much cooler when you factor the strength of the wind. | :22:32. | :22:35. | |
The strongest of the winds are likely to be for the evening rush | :22:35. | :22:41. | |
hour, for the northern half of the UK, gustings of wind of 60-70, if | :22:41. | :22:44. | |
you are travelling for the latter part of tomorrow, it is worth | :22:44. | :22:48. | |
looking at the travel situation, and look at the local radio station | :22:48. | :22:58. | |
:22:58. | :22:58. | ||
Since President Obama appointed him to the Court of St James's, Louise | :22:59. | :23:03. | |
Susman has been a high-profile representative not just in London | :23:03. | :23:08. | |
but all of the UK. Before this political career, Louise Susman was | :23:08. | :23:12. | |
a leading investment banker, ten years ago on 11th September he | :23:12. | :23:17. | |
watched in disbelief as the second plane crashed into the south tower | :23:17. | :23:20. | |
of the World Trade Center. He didn't watch it from television, | :23:20. | :23:29. | |
but from a jet in the skies above Before we talk about what is | :23:29. | :23:33. | |
planned in London to remember 9/11, let's talk, you yourself, you | :23:33. | :23:37. | |
happened to be flying through the airspace? I was on a private plane | :23:37. | :23:43. | |
flying into New York, landing at a private airport in New Jersey. The | :23:43. | :23:53. | |
pilot told me that unbelievably a plane had hit the World Trade | :23:53. | :23:58. | |
Center. We were in disbelief, they called me into the cockpit, landing | :23:58. | :24:01. | |
we were watching and saw the second plane hit. Immediately we knew it | :24:01. | :24:05. | |
was not an accident and we were under attack. Your son was in the | :24:05. | :24:11. | |
World Trade Center? My son was in the Merrill Lynch tower, right next | :24:11. | :24:15. | |
door to it. Unfortunately as he was exiting he saw people jumping out | :24:15. | :24:19. | |
of buildings, covered with dust, and walked all the way from Wall | :24:19. | :24:24. | |
Street all the way up to the east side. And you lost, your son | :24:24. | :24:29. | |
survived, but you lost colleagues? We lost six colleagues at the, I | :24:29. | :24:36. | |
was with Citibank at that time. And it is a tragedy that no-one will | :24:36. | :24:40. | |
ever forget, and Americans sure round the world too, but Americans | :24:40. | :24:44. | |
always remember where they were on two dates, the assassination of | :24:44. | :24:48. | |
President Kennedy, and 9/11. Many of the rest of us do, certainly the | :24:48. | :24:52. | |
latter. So, tell us a little bit about what is going to be happening | :24:52. | :24:55. | |
in Britain, London and elsewhere? Today there is church services | :24:55. | :25:05. | |
everywhere. I'm going to St Paul's, for a service. Subsequently there | :25:05. | :25:11. | |
is a major service in Grosvenor Square, where Americans have built | :25:11. | :25:16. | |
a memorial garden to the British, 67 British lost, as well as to our | :25:16. | :25:22. | |
own. A royal will be there, and the Prime Minister and the deputy Prime | :25:22. | :25:26. | |
Minister, the mayor, and your's truly. | :25:26. | :25:32. | |
A very important moment. Very hard to analyse what has happened | :25:32. | :25:36. | |
overall since 9/11, both to America and the rest of the world. You have | :25:36. | :25:45. | |
had the patriot act, everything has changed, in some respects. Do you | :25:45. | :25:48. | |
worry that the price in terms of liberty, for Americans, in America, | :25:48. | :25:53. | |
as well as people travelling around the world, has been too high? | :25:53. | :25:58. | |
really don't. It is easy to say you shouldn't do something and then | :25:58. | :26:03. | |
something happens and you say wow, I wish I would have done something. | :26:03. | :26:09. | |
You know the big thing that we have seen, is the incredible resilience | :26:09. | :26:13. | |
of both the American people and people around the world. Because | :26:13. | :26:17. | |
besides these acts of terrorism, both 9/11 and other acts of | :26:18. | :26:22. | |
terrorism, it hasn't caused our life to change. We don't live in | :26:22. | :26:28. | |
fear, our societies move forward, our businesses work, in trade, | :26:28. | :26:33. | |
people can go to any place of worship they like. So while we will | :26:33. | :26:38. | |
never forget this day, it is a moment which we feel confident of | :26:38. | :26:45. | |
that, whatever we did, we protected America, and in some places the | :26:45. | :26:54. | |
world. It was staumbling block, but in one direction, not radical. | :26:55. | :26:58. | |
I wonder about the huge focus American politics has had to put on | :26:58. | :27:01. | |
security, the war in Afghanistan and Iraq took people as attention | :27:02. | :27:06. | |
away from other things, such as the deficit and economic problems we | :27:06. | :27:12. | |
are going through now? We have to be multitaskers in the world. And I | :27:12. | :27:17. | |
think that the efforts towards security, whether done through the | :27:17. | :27:20. | |
Homeland Security, or through our security agencies, or intelligence | :27:20. | :27:25. | |
agencies, et cetera, is on going and always is foremost in the | :27:25. | :27:29. | |
President's mind, to protect Americans. At the same time, our | :27:29. | :27:33. | |
ability to function with a strong economy, a strong balance sheet is | :27:34. | :27:39. | |
equally as important in many ways, because that is our way of life. | :27:39. | :27:44. | |
And we need to be economically protected. I think the attention is | :27:45. | :27:48. | |
focused today on deficit reduction, and getting our economy in growth | :27:48. | :27:52. | |
mode, and getting unemployment down. We focused a lot, and rightly, on | :27:52. | :27:56. | |
the American loss on that day. There was considerable British loss | :27:56. | :28:01. | |
as well. What is the American view, would you say of Tony Blair's role | :28:01. | :28:04. | |
at the period immediately after 9/11, and indeed generally speaking | :28:05. | :28:12. | |
the British contribution? I think we are overwhelmed at all levels, | :28:12. | :28:18. | |
of the level of support and sympathy that we received. I | :28:18. | :28:24. | |
particularly was moved when I heard that while many Americans gathered | :28:24. | :28:27. | |
at Buckingham Palace to console themselves in some ways, that the | :28:27. | :28:32. | |
Queen ordered for the first time in the history, that on the Changing | :28:32. | :28:40. | |
of the Guard they played the Star Spangled Banner instead of God Save | :28:40. | :28:43. | |
The Queens. I remember the Last Night of the Proms it was very | :28:43. | :28:47. | |
American? I love that very much, it is an event that has no equal. | :28:47. | :28:50. | |
Thank you very much indeed for joining us. It is always a pleasure | :28:50. | :28:57. | |
to be here. No company with offices in the World Trade Center was as | :28:58. | :29:01. | |
devastated as Cantor Fitzgerald, it occupied four floors of the North | :29:01. | :29:06. | |
Tower. After a hijacked plane struck it, all of the firm's 658 | :29:06. | :29:09. | |
employees in the office that morning were trapped, none made it | :29:09. | :29:15. | |
out alive. The firm's CEO, Howard Lutnick, was late into work, it was | :29:15. | :29:18. | |
his four-year-old son's first day at school in Manhattan, and he had | :29:18. | :29:23. | |
gone to take him. Then, in the kindergarten his phone kept ringing | :29:23. | :29:28. | |
and then going silent, he heard about a plane, he rushed to the | :29:28. | :29:30. | |
office, earlier he described to me what happened next. | :29:30. | :29:34. | |
When I got to the trade centre, obviously everyone was running away. | :29:34. | :29:38. | |
I got to the trade centre, I stood at the doorway of our building | :29:38. | :29:41. | |
grabbing people and asking them what floor they had gotten up to. | :29:41. | :29:45. | |
What did you floor did you come from, someone would say 52 or 75, | :29:45. | :29:51. | |
and I had gotten up to the 92nd floor when there was the loudest | :29:51. | :29:54. | |
crash that you ever heard, I thought another plane had come and | :29:54. | :29:58. | |
hit the building. Are I hadn't seen any of the video that you have all | :29:58. | :30:04. | |
seen, I just headed down to the building. It was the sound was two | :30:04. | :30:07. | |
World Trade Centres collapsing, I didn't know it at the time, I heard | :30:07. | :30:11. | |
this loud sound I started running, here I am the guy with the suit and | :30:11. | :30:15. | |
the shoes, running my tail off, I run to the right, fortunately if I | :30:15. | :30:19. | |
had run to the left I would have run into the crashing building and | :30:19. | :30:25. | |
I would have been killed. I ran to the right and this giant black | :30:25. | :30:29. | |
tornado was chasing me. You have seen it, giant, rolling black fog | :30:29. | :30:35. | |
and smoke, I dove under a war, and the world turned black, I tried to | :30:35. | :30:39. | |
hold my breath, as if I was drowning, but obviously sooner or | :30:39. | :30:44. | |
later you have to breathe, so I was breathing in this thick black air | :30:44. | :30:47. | |
and I laid under the war probably for five minutes, not knowing if I | :30:47. | :30:51. | |
was blind, because I couldn't see, deaf, because you couldn't hear, or | :30:51. | :30:57. | |
dead, ultimately I figured I could stand, and I walked out of the mess, | :30:57. | :31:02. | |
walked up be town, I was covered in soot. Covered just head to toe in | :31:02. | :31:07. | |
soot. I walked up town until people were clean. And when people were | :31:07. | :31:10. | |
clean, obviously cellphones didn't work, I went up to the first pay | :31:10. | :31:13. | |
phone, there was a line of people, a clean woman was talking on the | :31:13. | :31:17. | |
phone, took the phone on her, I hung up the phone, she looked at me, | :31:17. | :31:22. | |
I was covered in the ash, she looked at me as if I was a ghost, I | :31:22. | :31:27. | |
called my wife and I tolder I was alive. You lost, of course - I told | :31:27. | :31:31. | |
her I was alive. You lost, of course, your own brother, and | :31:31. | :31:34. | |
everybody in the work force in New York who was at work that day. It | :31:34. | :31:37. | |
must have been an utterly devastating time, yet you were in a | :31:37. | :31:41. | |
position of leadership, you had to, not only save the company, but | :31:41. | :31:45. | |
start work to help all the bereaved families? I gave everyone who | :31:45. | :31:49. | |
worked for the firm two choices. I said we could shut the firm and go | :31:49. | :31:55. | |
to our friends' funerals, 700 funerals is 20 funeral as day for | :31:55. | :31:58. | |
35 straight days, it is inconceivable, or we will have to | :31:58. | :32:02. | |
work harder than we have ever worked before. To do that would be | :32:02. | :32:06. | |
to take care of our friends' families. I didn't want to go to | :32:06. | :32:10. | |
work, nobody wanted to go to work and make moneyment we decided what | :32:10. | :32:14. | |
we wanted to do is help our friends' families. So we committed | :32:15. | :32:18. | |
right there, on the evening of the 11th, unanimously, all the | :32:18. | :32:22. | |
employees of the firm, that we would work harder than we would | :32:22. | :32:27. | |
ever work before for one purpose, that is to try to take care of our | :32:27. | :32:30. | |
friends' families, so many of our friends that we lost. As you began | :32:30. | :32:34. | |
the work of rewhrilding the company, what sort - rebuilding the company, | :32:34. | :32:38. | |
what sort of help did you get from rival firms as well as your clients, | :32:38. | :32:43. | |
did they come to your aid? customers were the most incredible. | :32:43. | :32:53. | |
:32:53. | :32:54. | ||
They came to our aid. The first day we opened our equities business, | :32:54. | :32:59. | |
which was on the 17th, we barely stitched the company together with | :32:59. | :33:03. | |
string and bubble gum, just sort of barely connected things. We had a | :33:03. | :33:07. | |
rule, we would only do one transaction per client, to make | :33:07. | :33:10. | |
sure we could process these things. Remember everyone who worked for us | :33:10. | :33:14. | |
had been killed. We really didn't have any experienced people | :33:14. | :33:18. | |
processing our transactions. Our clients came in and said, no, no, | :33:18. | :33:21. | |
we are not doing one trade with you, we are going to do everything with | :33:21. | :33:27. | |
you, and we had, in equities, on the 17th of September, bun of the | :33:27. | :33:31. | |
busiest days the firm has ever had a - one of the busiest days the | :33:31. | :33:35. | |
firm has ever had. My wife asked how my day was, I said I think we | :33:36. | :33:40. | |
were killed with kindness. I didn't think it was possible that we could | :33:40. | :33:45. | |
process all these trades. When we did process those trades, on the | :33:45. | :33:49. | |
19th, it was on the 19th of September that I knew the firm | :33:49. | :33:53. | |
would survive. Because we could process the trades, and we were | :33:53. | :33:56. | |
then able to announce that we would give 25% of our profits to the | :33:57. | :34:01. | |
families for five years and pay for their health care, which is very | :34:01. | :34:05. | |
expensive in America, for ten years. Finally, can you tell us what you | :34:05. | :34:10. | |
are doing as a company, and you are doing yourself on the anniversary | :34:10. | :34:20. | |
of this appalling event? Well, the National 11th September Memorial | :34:20. | :34:23. | |
will open tomorrow morning, the President will be there and all the | :34:23. | :34:28. | |
politicians. I won't be there for, that that is too much pomp and | :34:28. | :34:32. | |
circumstance for me, my friends and family will go after that. We will | :34:32. | :34:36. | |
go to the memorial, which is beautiful, we will put our hands on | :34:36. | :34:40. | |
my brother's names and our friends names, then we will head up town, | :34:40. | :34:45. | |
and at 4.00pm in Central Park, we will have a memorial with friends | :34:45. | :34:50. | |
and families. We will say the names of all of the men, 658 men and | :34:50. | :34:54. | |
women we will lost, we will show their pictures on big screens, and | :34:54. | :34:58. | |
we will remember their faces and keep their memory alive. The next | :34:58. | :35:00. | |
business day, which is September 12th, will be our global charity | :35:00. | :35:05. | |
day. On that day, not only do we giveaway, we don't just giveaway | :35:05. | :35:09. | |
our profit, all of our employees agree, all of our salesmen and | :35:09. | :35:15. | |
brokers all agree to earn no money, and all of our revenues go to | :35:15. | :35:21. | |
charity. We have so many of our clients help us. We invite | :35:21. | :35:25. | |
celebrities to come and help us make the day fun and exciting. We | :35:25. | :35:30. | |
take of about 100 charities. Well done all of you, good luck for the | :35:30. | :35:34. | |
day. Thank you. The TUC conference opens in London | :35:34. | :35:39. | |
tomorrow, it is the first-ever time in the capital, with much | :35:39. | :35:41. | |
speculation about what the Labour leader Ed Miliband might have to | :35:41. | :35:45. | |
say about the relationship between his party and the union's 6.5 | :35:45. | :35:48. | |
million members. The main subject will be the continuing campaign | :35:48. | :35:51. | |
against public sector cuts. With threats of future strike action, | :35:51. | :35:55. | |
civil disobedience by the unions this autumn, including from Len | :35:55. | :36:00. | |
McCluskey, the leader of Britain's biggest union, Unite. Good morning, | :36:00. | :36:06. | |
you have 1.5 million members, what is the mood as the TUC gathers? You | :36:07. | :36:10. | |
have the challenge on pensions, the challenge on public sector cuts, | :36:10. | :36:14. | |
describe the mood? I think it is simple. It is a very, very angry | :36:14. | :36:19. | |
mood. Our members throughout the public service sector, are | :36:19. | :36:23. | |
infuriated by the fact that the Government has launched the | :36:23. | :36:27. | |
ideolgical take on their work, their pensions, their jobs, but | :36:27. | :36:31. | |
also within the private sector itself. The users of public | :36:31. | :36:35. | |
services are angry that everything that has held our nation together | :36:35. | :36:39. | |
for the past 65 years under threat. That is why we have to stand up and | :36:39. | :36:43. | |
be counted. So it is a sort of Council of War? Yes, if you want to | :36:43. | :36:47. | |
put it that way. Obviously it is more a question of trying to build | :36:47. | :36:52. | |
a campaign of resistance, so that the Government will take stock and | :36:52. | :36:55. | |
perhaps take a step back. What people need to understand is that, | :36:55. | :36:59. | |
it was our parents and our grandparents who, having returned | :36:59. | :37:02. | |
from the Second World War, decided that they were going to build a | :37:02. | :37:06. | |
land fit for heros, they built the welfare state, and created the | :37:06. | :37:09. | |
National Health Service, they gave us universal education. All of that | :37:09. | :37:14. | |
is now under threat. I, for one, don't want my grandchildren saying, | :37:14. | :37:18. | |
well you did nothing, when our heritage was being taken away. That | :37:18. | :37:21. | |
is the anger we feel, from the grassroots, right throughout. | :37:21. | :37:26. | |
seems, on the face of it, slightly unlikely that George Osborne is | :37:26. | :37:29. | |
going to saying, Len McCluskey you're right, I'm going to change | :37:29. | :37:34. | |
course. What kind of action follows this autumn, this winter? You can | :37:34. | :37:37. | |
only build a campaign of protest. I'm one of these people, perhaps it | :37:37. | :37:42. | |
is old fashioned, to believe that, in a democracy, if you protest | :37:42. | :37:47. | |
sufficiently, if sufficient numbers protest, in various ways, then the | :37:47. | :37:49. | |
Government of the day, who are supposed to be responsible in | :37:49. | :37:54. | |
governing on behalf of the people, will take note. I think this | :37:54. | :37:58. | |
Government is becoming increasingly isolated from economists, from a | :37:58. | :38:03. | |
number of their own supporters. What kind of action? I think the | :38:03. | :38:06. | |
actions that will be taken will be widespread, and I don't think we | :38:06. | :38:12. | |
can rule anything out. I noted recently a senior citizens | :38:12. | :38:16. | |
protesting in Bristol by walking backwards and forwards across a | :38:16. | :38:20. | |
zebra crossing and bringing things to stand still. If you look at | :38:20. | :38:28. | |
people on UK Uncut, bringing banks into creches and turning them into | :38:28. | :38:30. | |
different places, and including industrial action. That is | :38:30. | :38:33. | |
precisely what our members want. They expect their leaders to give | :38:33. | :38:37. | |
that type of leadership and stand shoulder-to-shoulder with emthis, | :38:37. | :38:41. | |
when their terms and conditions are being attacked. What do you say to | :38:41. | :38:44. | |
those who say these are very bleak times, we have a huge, huge | :38:44. | :38:48. | |
borrowing debt, the money has to be paid back, and there is no other | :38:48. | :38:51. | |
way of paying it back but by implementing the cuts the | :38:51. | :38:55. | |
Government has agreed? There is a dogma of despair and fear, that is | :38:55. | :38:58. | |
what this Government represents, right-wing Governments throughout | :38:58. | :39:02. | |
the globe represent that. We have got to give something different, we | :39:02. | :39:06. | |
have to give hope, we have to say there is an alternative to this | :39:06. | :39:10. | |
type of, these types of cuts. time when public sector pensions | :39:10. | :39:14. | |
are still overall more generous than private sector pension, do you | :39:14. | :39:17. | |
think people will be supporting strikes and disruption? I think we | :39:17. | :39:23. | |
need, I think we need to explode some of the myths. You know, these | :39:23. | :39:29. | |
are attacks on pensions and talk about gold-plated pensions, we are | :39:29. | :39:33. | |
talking about dinner ladies getting �4,000 though a year pension, and | :39:33. | :39:37. | |
being cut back to �3,000 by the Government attacks. It is not what | :39:37. | :39:42. | |
is being projected. Compare that with the top, the chief executives | :39:42. | :39:47. | |
of the top 100 in the FTSE. Their average salary is �3.4 million. So | :39:47. | :39:50. | |
much for us all being in it together. The Government come out | :39:50. | :39:54. | |
with lie after lie, and the truth of the matter is it is about whose | :39:54. | :39:57. | |
side are they on. At the moment they are certainly not on the side | :39:57. | :40:01. | |
of ordinary working people. Labour leader, Ed Miliband, seems | :40:01. | :40:09. | |
to want the voting in the Labour Party Conference to be at least 50% | :40:09. | :40:13. | |
non-union, more than 50% non-union voting, in other words to push you | :40:13. | :40:17. | |
below a majority of voting s that a worry for you? Not particularly a | :40:17. | :40:21. | |
worry for me. I mean the issue of refounding Labour and the question | :40:21. | :40:28. | |
of trying to make the Labour Party more vibrant is something I'm happy | :40:28. | :40:33. | |
to look at. If there is a perceived democratic deficit I'm prepared to | :40:33. | :40:37. | |
look at it. Were you disappointed by the things he was saying about | :40:37. | :40:41. | |
the strikes and demonstrations? Without a shadow of a doubt. He | :40:41. | :40:45. | |
made a fundamental error by attacking the strikes on the 30th | :40:45. | :40:50. | |
of June. He's laying in his job, he has to be given time to construct a | :40:50. | :40:53. | |
hopefully radical alternative. I hope that will mean he understands | :40:53. | :40:56. | |
he has to be on the side of ordinary working people. If he's | :40:56. | :40:59. | |
going to get Labour back into power, Labour needs to be on the side of | :40:59. | :41:05. | |
ordinary working people. Thank you very much for joining us. | :41:05. | :41:09. | |
Those of us who are working are going to have to work for longer. | :41:09. | :41:13. | |
One minister says this morning that the pension age is going to go up | :41:13. | :41:17. | |
first to 67 and then later to 68, much more quickly than was planned | :41:17. | :41:22. | |
by the last Government. Meanwhile, for people who aren't working, | :41:22. | :41:25. | |
there is huge changes on the way. A single universal benefit, and a cap | :41:25. | :41:29. | |
on how much anyone can get in benefits of �26,000. The man with | :41:29. | :41:34. | |
all that and much more on his plate is the Work and Pensions Secretary, | :41:34. | :41:38. | |
Iain Duncan Smith. Welcome. Let as start off with the economy, | :41:38. | :41:45. | |
if I may. All your hopes for radical change in the welfare | :41:45. | :41:49. | |
system presumably threatened by a long period of stagnant growth, | :41:49. | :41:53. | |
rising unemployment and so on. Obviously the economy is critical | :41:53. | :41:57. | |
to everything we do. We need to get the economy back in shape, the | :41:57. | :42:01. | |
deficit down, the debt paid off, so the economy can grow again and | :42:01. | :42:05. | |
properly. At the moment it is growing, and all the forecasts | :42:05. | :42:09. | |
suggest it will grow. Pretty flat, though really? Your point though, | :42:09. | :42:14. | |
that would we do this, or can we do these changes, make work pay, get | :42:14. | :42:18. | |
people back to work, all the changes you were decribing, if the | :42:18. | :42:22. | |
economy is in dits, the answer is we have to any - difficulties, the | :42:22. | :42:25. | |
answer is we have to any way, one of the reasons why the economy has | :42:26. | :42:29. | |
underperformed over the last ten or 15 years, is because the welfare | :42:29. | :42:33. | |
system isn't shaped to deliver people to the work force in the way | :42:33. | :42:37. | |
it should. That has dragged us backwards. As one of the ministers | :42:37. | :42:41. | |
most concerned with the economy, that is where the money is all | :42:41. | :42:45. | |
decided, do you favour further steps to boost jobs and the economy, | :42:45. | :42:50. | |
maybe getting rid of the 50p tax rate, if, as the newspaper says | :42:50. | :42:57. | |
this morning, it is bringing in no money at all and stifling | :42:57. | :43:01. | |
entrepeneurship? On the 50p tax rate, both the Prime Minister and | :43:01. | :43:05. | |
George Osborne decided it was never forever, in terms of when it has | :43:05. | :43:11. | |
helped to get the deficit down that was always the position of the | :43:11. | :43:15. | |
Government it would grow. On growth, we are doing the enterprise stuff, | :43:15. | :43:20. | |
and work on apprenticeships and work placements, and making sure | :43:20. | :43:23. | |
small businesses get exemptions from certain taxations and lower | :43:23. | :43:28. | |
corporation tax. There is more we can do. I know George is looking | :43:28. | :43:31. | |
carefully at a whole new raft of things we can do to give the | :43:31. | :43:34. | |
economy another push and another kick start in the direction of | :43:34. | :43:39. | |
greater growth. This is not plan B, but pla. A plus, people are saying? | :43:39. | :43:42. | |
It is just what you do. When you manage an economy you must | :43:42. | :43:45. | |
recognise the circumstances you are in, and make sure your main | :43:45. | :43:49. | |
position, which is right, we have to get the deficit down, pay off | :43:49. | :43:52. | |
our debt, because we were basically bust, that is what we inherited | :43:52. | :43:56. | |
from the Labour Government, but nonetheless we have a growth | :43:56. | :43:58. | |
strategy, it is whether that strategy is working well enough, | :43:58. | :44:02. | |
he's reviewing that, and making sure the right things are done. | :44:02. | :44:07. | |
That will mean infrastructure projects and things like that? | :44:07. | :44:10. | |
key thing that is we have to reduce the deficit, without which we would | :44:10. | :44:14. | |
be paying interest rates, people forget this, at the like of Spain | :44:14. | :44:19. | |
and Portugal, which would cost home owners and business owners a | :44:19. | :44:22. | |
dramatic amount. Your big Welfare Reform Bill lands in the House of | :44:22. | :44:26. | |
Lords this coming week, where no doubt there will be lots of | :44:26. | :44:30. | |
argument about it, one of the arguments is about the �26,000 cap | :44:30. | :44:36. | |
on benefits going to one household, there have been suggestions, Lord | :44:36. | :44:41. | |
Freud has talked about there being special conditions, where perhaps | :44:41. | :44:44. | |
there is just a huge number of children in a household so they | :44:44. | :44:50. | |
don't get caught by that, is that cap absolute or are there ways | :44:50. | :44:54. | |
around in in a particular circumstance? The cap will stand. | :44:54. | :44:58. | |
No exceptions? I'm not happy about defending it. There are exemptions, | :44:58. | :45:03. | |
if people are on disability allowance, or war widows, or | :45:03. | :45:06. | |
working in tax credits, it is for people not in work. That is the key. | :45:06. | :45:09. | |
Of course people out there listening to this and watching me | :45:09. | :45:14. | |
at the moment, when I tell them we are capping it at �26,000 net, that | :45:14. | :45:18. | |
is a gross income of �35,000 a year. I have people in my constituency in | :45:18. | :45:23. | |
north-east London, who will say, hold on a second, why is it so high. | :45:23. | :45:27. | |
So although people are moaning about it. Because I'm working. | :45:27. | :45:32. | |
is average earnings. People work hard and often commute an hour and | :45:32. | :45:35. | |
an hour-and-a-half in the morning and evenings, and live in a | :45:35. | :45:39. | |
location they can afford. That is what we are using people to do with | :45:39. | :45:42. | |
housing benefit and reforms, look you need to cut your cloth in | :45:42. | :45:46. | |
accordance with the nature of what you are doing. Just a minute, I | :45:46. | :45:50. | |
think Lord Freud was talking about circumstances where you have, | :45:50. | :45:54. | |
whatever you think about it, family with I don't know, nine children | :45:54. | :46:00. | |
living at home? What he was talking about, and which he was slightly | :46:00. | :46:02. | |
misrepresented on, we have always had within there, discretionary | :46:03. | :46:06. | |
measures to make sure that the cap is not about trying to drive people | :46:06. | :46:09. | |
into homelessness, it is about getting them into situations in | :46:09. | :46:12. | |
terms of their housing where they could then take work, that is the | :46:13. | :46:17. | |
key. We will make sure that as people are brought under the cap, | :46:17. | :46:21. | |
that we take consideration of their circumstances, but the cap is firm. | :46:21. | :46:28. | |
Firm and clear and stated. It is fair, if somebody is in this a | :46:28. | :46:32. | |
house paying up to �100,000 in central London, they can't afford | :46:32. | :46:38. | |
to take a job, they are basically disenfranchised from the whole jobs | :46:38. | :46:41. | |
markets, the moment they take a job they lose their housing benefit and | :46:41. | :46:45. | |
can't live there any more. Is that the answer to what Boris Johnson | :46:45. | :46:50. | |
was saying when he talked about Kosovo-style social cleansing, | :46:50. | :46:52. | |
people being driven out of the capital by the cap on housing | :46:52. | :46:55. | |
benefit? The point is, people need to be living in housing that they | :46:55. | :46:59. | |
can afford to take work from. Most people do that who are not on | :46:59. | :47:03. | |
benefits, people on benefits must do the same. What he said is there | :47:03. | :47:07. | |
would be no Kosovo-style cleansing, he's right. He was warning about | :47:07. | :47:11. | |
its danger of it? There isn't. London is not like Paris, we have | :47:11. | :47:14. | |
lots of social housing in central London, for people who want to live | :47:14. | :47:18. | |
in that housing. What we are talking about is getting these | :47:18. | :47:22. | |
social housing and private rented areas separated, so people get to | :47:22. | :47:26. | |
live in housing they can afford if they go to work, that is fair and | :47:26. | :47:30. | |
reasonable position to be in. The cap makes sense, I think. Another | :47:30. | :47:33. | |
major controversial has been about the way that people who have some | :47:33. | :47:37. | |
kind of disability are tested for their ability to work. A lot of, | :47:37. | :47:41. | |
not just the usual suspects, but quite a lot of reputable | :47:41. | :47:44. | |
organisations of one kind or another, have expressed worry that | :47:44. | :47:48. | |
the tests are a little bit too intrusive, a bit too aggressive at | :47:48. | :47:52. | |
times and a bit unfair. Is this something you can look at again? | :47:52. | :47:56. | |
There are two things, one is the proposal for disability living | :47:56. | :48:01. | |
allowance reform, and the other is this Incapacity Benefit, sickness | :48:01. | :48:06. | |
tests. They will both have tested. The Incapacity Benefit one is on | :48:06. | :48:10. | |
going at the moment. When we inherited it from the Government, | :48:10. | :48:14. | |
this is what we proposed to do, there were people sitting for 25 | :48:14. | :48:17. | |
years on sickness benefit and they often got better and no-one ever | :48:17. | :48:21. | |
saw them. This check is reasonable, because it gets us certain that | :48:21. | :48:25. | |
people who are on it need it, and those who aren't should be in work. | :48:25. | :48:29. | |
We have had it under review constantly, we are changing it all | :48:29. | :48:34. | |
the time. Professor Harrington I asked him to review it permanently, | :48:34. | :48:37. | |
he's taking cancer patients on treatment out of that process, we | :48:37. | :48:46. | |
are adjusting it all the time. I this at this it is - it is fair and | :48:46. | :48:50. | |
reasonable at the time. You took control of the Government looking | :48:50. | :48:56. | |
at gang culture after the riots of the early summer. And I wondered, | :48:56. | :48:59. | |
Theresa May said, actually, most of the people involved weren't in | :48:59. | :49:03. | |
gangs, where you have come to at the moment about the importance, or | :49:03. | :49:06. | |
otherwise, of gangs at the centre of your response to this? Most | :49:06. | :49:09. | |
people, who are involved in it, weren't necessarily part of gangs, | :49:09. | :49:12. | |
but of course the thing that happened, particularly in London, | :49:12. | :49:16. | |
was a number of the gangs did manipulate quite a lot of activity | :49:16. | :49:20. | |
around the capital and did a lot of criminal work behind it. The key | :49:20. | :49:25. | |
thing about the gangs, it is not that the riots are the reason, the | :49:25. | :49:28. | |
fact is, in too many communities and cities in Britain, gangs now | :49:28. | :49:31. | |
have become completely rooted into these communities, they destroy | :49:31. | :49:35. | |
them around them. There will be no business investment in that area. | :49:35. | :49:39. | |
They take kids from as young as 11 or ten, they are involved in | :49:39. | :49:44. | |
criminal activity, they are very violent. In my own area of Waltham | :49:44. | :49:49. | |
Forest, we have had many murders as a result of the gang violence, | :49:49. | :49:51. | |
often innocent bystanders get caught up in it. This is a | :49:51. | :49:55. | |
priority? They are not only just the products of social breakdown in | :49:55. | :49:59. | |
these areas, kids from broken homes, they are also driving breakdown in | :49:59. | :50:05. | |
their communities. Dealing with them and Teresa and I are jointly | :50:05. | :50:08. | |
doing this, than means everywhere, for the rest of our time will be | :50:08. | :50:11. | |
about dealing with gangs. Pension age, we learned under the last | :50:11. | :50:18. | |
Government that the pension age was going up to 66, 67, ultimately to | :50:18. | :50:22. | |
68. It seems you want to bring that earlier, that it is too delayed, as | :50:22. | :50:28. | |
far as the Government is concerned s that true? First of all, empp | :50:28. | :50:31. | |
should know that the last Government left us with a deadline | :50:31. | :50:36. | |
to get to 67, we are already bringing equalisation, and then | :50:36. | :50:40. | |
rising to 66 in 2020, we have always said that the time scale | :50:40. | :50:44. | |
left by the last Government was too slow, because, in fact, there has | :50:44. | :50:48. | |
been an accelerating longevity, people are living longer but still | :50:48. | :50:52. | |
retiring at the same age. The purpose now is to look at that, and | :50:52. | :50:56. | |
we are reviewing that, and to see what might be reasonable, but | :50:56. | :51:00. | |
giving good warning about what happens. We will be moving to 67, | :51:00. | :51:03. | |
the question is when. That will happen earlier than originally | :51:03. | :51:06. | |
planned or announced? Government left us with the | :51:06. | :51:10. | |
deadline in the 30s, we think that is too late because people's age | :51:10. | :51:14. | |
levels have increased even since they made that announcement. We | :51:14. | :51:17. | |
have been about this all along. The move to 67 will happen, the | :51:17. | :51:20. | |
question is only on the timings of it. We haven't made a decision | :51:20. | :51:23. | |
about that yet. The new Conservative Euro-sceptic backbench | :51:23. | :51:29. | |
group is getting together for the first time this week. They have got | :51:29. | :51:32. | |
some ideas, lots of ideas and proposals, I think William Hague | :51:33. | :51:36. | |
has said this is no longer a career-damaging, it didn't damage | :51:36. | :51:40. | |
your career in the old days, but it is no longer a career-damaging | :51:40. | :51:43. | |
thing to do. What do you feel about relations with Europe when it comes | :51:43. | :51:46. | |
to, for instance, the large numbers of people coming in, taking jobs | :51:46. | :51:50. | |
that might otherwise be done pi people who are getting off benefits | :51:50. | :51:54. | |
and so on? William is right about this. We are in the European Union, | :51:54. | :51:58. | |
we have to try to make this work best for us. But I think he's also | :51:58. | :52:02. | |
conscious and all of us are conscious, that there are often far | :52:02. | :52:06. | |
too many stupidties that go on in there, interferences, we are | :52:06. | :52:09. | |
suffering some of those, where they make judgment that is don't seem to | :52:09. | :52:13. | |
make a lot of sense. There is a problem over the human rights issue, | :52:13. | :52:17. | |
we are looking at that at the moment, trying to find a way of | :52:17. | :52:20. | |
resolving. Europe is an important market place for us. We are friends | :52:20. | :52:24. | |
and allies with many European countries, as part of NATO, and as | :52:24. | :52:27. | |
historic allies. We need to get the balance right about how the | :52:27. | :52:31. | |
relationship works with Europe. Almost everywhere you look you must | :52:31. | :52:34. | |
think there are problems with European legislation, I come up | :52:34. | :52:37. | |
against it again and again. You say you don't want to leave Europe, is | :52:37. | :52:43. | |
there a middle way, where you can repatriate considerably more powers, | :52:43. | :52:46. | |
in some sense renegotiate the relationship to give people like | :52:47. | :52:50. | |
yourself, British ministers, more freedom of manoeuvres? That was | :52:50. | :52:53. | |
always the Conservative policy, we are in a coalition, these things | :52:53. | :52:56. | |
have 0 get modified. I know some of my Conservative colleagues are | :52:57. | :53:00. | |
concerned about that. William has accepted that. Nonetheless, the | :53:00. | :53:05. | |
reality for us is, we have made it clear, any future treaties, there | :53:05. | :53:10. | |
will be a referendum on, that has locked any further fuer Government | :53:10. | :53:15. | |
and this future Government about taking decision about further power | :53:15. | :53:19. | |
transferal. And there is a looking at how to get some of the powers | :53:19. | :53:23. | |
not exercised by the European Union back. William is clear about that. | :53:23. | :53:29. | |
What p the idea of giving parliament back - about the idea of | :53:29. | :53:33. | |
giving parliament back the right to agree or veto plans from Europe? | :53:33. | :53:35. | |
I'm always in favour of giving parliament greater power and | :53:35. | :53:40. | |
authority. I have no doubts about that. Governments, of course, have | :53:40. | :53:44. | |
to look carefully about how this affects them. I'm in favour, | :53:44. | :53:47. | |
personally, of anything that gives parliament a greater say, that is | :53:47. | :53:50. | |
what we were elected for. Thank you very much indeed for | :53:50. | :53:54. | |
joining us. Now the news headlines. America is preparing to mark the | :53:55. | :53:58. | |
tenth anniversary of the 9/11 attack, that killed nearly 3,000 | :53:58. | :54:01. | |
people in York, Washington and Pennsylvania. An official memorial | :54:01. | :54:06. | |
to those who died will be unveiled at the site of the world trade | :54:06. | :54:09. | |
centre. The Twin Towers were destroyed in the attacks. | :54:09. | :54:14. | |
Ceremonies will also take place in London and other cities around the | :54:14. | :54:17. | |
UK, to remember the victims from Britain and many other countries | :54:17. | :54:22. | |
who died in the attacks. On the eve of the annual Trades Union Congress, | :54:22. | :54:26. | |
the leader of the biggest union, Unite, has called for campaign of | :54:26. | :54:29. | |
direct action, including civil disobedience and strikes, against | :54:29. | :54:32. | |
the Government's suspending cuts, Len McCluskey told this programme, | :54:32. | :54:37. | |
the mood in the union movement was very, very angry at what he called | :54:37. | :54:41. | |
an ideolgical attack on the public sector. | :54:41. | :54:50. | |
That's all, the next news is at midday. We go back to Andrew Marr | :54:50. | :54:54. | |
show soon. On the anniversary of 9/11, we | :54:54. | :54:59. | |
debate how a decade of terrorism has affected our ability to be | :54:59. | :55:03. | |
tolerant. One Iman says we are now so slam phobic, Muslims can barely | :55:03. | :55:07. | |
live in Britain. The war on terror, despite the bloodshed, could it | :55:07. | :55:10. | |
still be necessary. It has been a record-breaking | :55:10. | :55:17. | |
season for the BBC proms, more than 300,000 people, went to over three | :55:17. | :55:21. | |
months of concerts. Yesterday was the Last Night of the Proms. What a | :55:21. | :55:27. | |
night it was. That great interpreter of Wagner, Susan | :55:27. | :55:31. | |
Bullock was there, with crowd pleasing songs. | :55:31. | :55:37. | |
# A dream that will need # All the love you can give | :55:37. | :55:40. | |
Susan Bullock joins me now, thank you for being here so early after a | :55:40. | :55:45. | |
late night last night. I have to ask you, the size of the | :55:45. | :55:48. | |
Albert Hall, is that a particular technical problem for somebody, | :55:48. | :55:52. | |
even with a voice like your's? is quite a difficult hall, in some | :55:52. | :55:57. | |
ways, in just when you look at it it is terrifying, as a sound | :55:57. | :56:00. | |
problem, it is not a problem at allment you can sing so quietly in | :56:00. | :56:06. | |
there, if you want, or as loudly, it really takes the sound, it is a | :56:06. | :56:10. | |
fantastic acoustic, you would think it is terrifying, but it is not. | :56:10. | :56:15. | |
You are famous for the roles you sing in, Wagner and Richard Strauss, | :56:15. | :56:20. | |
and so on, to sing us out today, you have chosen something | :56:20. | :56:27. | |
appropriate to the anniversary of 9/11. It is an American song, it is | :56:27. | :56:34. | |
At The River, Aaron Copland set it with a piano accompaniment, I'm | :56:34. | :56:38. | |
singing it unaccompanied this morning. That is all we have time | :56:38. | :56:43. | |
for, join me earlier next week, 8.30 we go on air, 30 minutes | :56:44. | :56:48. | |
before, to allow coverage of the Great North Run. I will be talking | :56:48. | :56:51. | |
to the deputy Prime Minister, Nick Clegg, ahead of the Liberal | :56:51. | :56:54. | |
Democrats annual conference, and also the cricket legend and | :56:54. | :56:58. | |
politician, Imran Khan. Until then, on the anniversary of 9/11, we | :56:58. | :57:00. | |
leave you with Susan Bullock performing Aaron Copland's | :57:00. | :57:06. | |
arrangement of the American hymn, Shall We Gather At The River. | :57:06. | :57:16. | |
:57:16. | :57:20. | ||
# Shall we gather at the river # When the angels feet have trod | :57:20. | :57:30. | |
:57:30. | :57:32. | ||
# With its crystal tide forever # Flowing by the throne of God | :57:32. | :57:41. | |
# Yes we'll gather by the river # The beautiful | :57:41. | :57:48. | |
# The beautiful # River # Gather with the saints by the | :57:48. | :57:58. | |
:57:58. | :58:00. | ||
river # That flows by the throne of God | :58:00. | :58:09. | |
# Soon we'll reach the shining river | :58:10. | :58:19. | |
:58:20. | :58:21. | ||
# Soon our pilgrimage will cease # Soon our happy hearts will quiver | :58:21. | :58:31. | |
:58:31. | :58:34. | ||
# With the melody of peace # Yes' we will gather by the river | :58:34. | :58:42. | |
# The beautiful # River | :58:42. | :58:49. |